Lyle and TJ react to their Ketel Marte trade proposal fallout, and the reported Jorge Polanco asking price (2:30). Then, Jordan Shusterman of Cespedes Family BBQ stops by to discuss the latest rumors at the winter meetings (18:01).
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00:00 --> 00:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to episode number three 35 of the Marine layer podcast live from the winter meetings.
00:06 --> 00:11 [SPEAKER_02]: We have quite a reaction to our Katel Martais suggestion from Monday's podcast or react to that.
00:11 --> 00:14 [SPEAKER_02]: There are some quotes coming out from Jerry to Poto here at the winter meetings.
00:14 --> 00:22 [SPEAKER_02]: And we've gotten, I think a better idea of what Jorge Polanco is looking for in his next team and what kind of contracts he thinks he's going to get.
00:22 --> 00:23 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about it.
00:23 --> 00:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So, reminder you guys, just make sure you're staying on top of all of our stuff to do that.
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00:32 --> 00:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It helps a ton of you do.
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00:47 --> 00:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's get it rolling.
01:01 --> 01:16 [SPEAKER_02]: And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Lair podcast part of the just baseball podcast network recording here on Tuesday evening December 9th live from the winter meetings sitting in Roughly the same hallway.
01:16 --> 01:19 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is the same hallway from where we were recording for Mondays episode.
01:19 --> 01:20 [SPEAKER_02]: It is busy.
01:21 --> 01:21 [SPEAKER_02]: It is bustling.
01:21 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_02]: It is dinner time.
01:22 --> 01:24 [SPEAKER_02]: People are walking between the two hotels and man.
01:25 --> 01:26 [SPEAKER_02]: What an eventful two days.
01:26 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_02]: This has been two full days essentially now.
01:28 --> 01:29 [SPEAKER_02]: It's been for us here.
01:29 --> 01:46 [SPEAKER_00]: been fun and I'll tell you when we do these podcasts out from the winter meetings in the middle of the hallway like we did last year like we're doing this year it's fun you can tell it's vibrant it's active and I'll tell you what it's it's so hard not to people watch as you see everybody walking by I mean even just for example right now
01:46 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_00]: everybody's walking around.
01:48 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_00]: You've got the John boy guys to our left or I got my left who we were doing some stuff with earlier, which was really fun.
01:53 --> 01:59 [SPEAKER_00]: We got the foul territory guys to our right and we're just kind of sitting here in a couple of chairs in the middle, but yeah man, it's been a blast.
01:59 --> 02:03 [SPEAKER_00]: There's some some moves that went down here on Tuesday and what are meetings are flying?
02:03 --> 02:05 [SPEAKER_02]: I ironically right during the Scott Boris press conference.
02:05 --> 02:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Two non-bores clients dropping within five minutes of each other right in the middle of his press conference.
02:12 --> 02:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Was it a play?
02:14 --> 02:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Was it on purpose?
02:15 --> 02:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Was it a play?
02:16 --> 02:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It's up for interpretation.
02:17 --> 02:25 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, maybe not intentionally, but after the fact, you think the other agencies are like, well, okay, but here's the thing, right?
02:26 --> 02:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Kyle Schwerber's deal gets done.
02:28 --> 02:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Scott Bores is in the middle of talking.
02:32 --> 02:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Is there any possibility that they could have said to themselves, you know what?
02:36 --> 02:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Push this out right now, right now.
02:38 --> 02:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
02:39 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_02]: We're just going to speculate because then the topic shifts from Scott Boris talking about his own clients to Scott Boris talking about other people's clients.
02:51 --> 02:53 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like it's it is a little bit of a mind game.
02:53 --> 02:54 [SPEAKER_02]: And let's be real here.
02:55 --> 02:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Scott Boris.
02:57 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_02]: is Scott Bores has an ego driven.
03:00 --> 03:01 [SPEAKER_02]: You go driven.
03:01 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I'd say most top agents have a decent, have a decent ego.
03:06 --> 03:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Anyone really successful in their business has an ego.
03:09 --> 03:27 [SPEAKER_02]: And they have to be, because they are, especially if their their personality is their brand, like Scott Bores, head of Boris Court, to have the ego hit just a little bit in the middle of your own press conference where you're trying to, you're trying to capture the internet with these dumb, dumb, dumb, one-liner.
03:27 --> 03:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it might there might have been a little bit there he definitely had an ego hit I got I got no problems saying that
03:35 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't want to talk about other people's clients signing.
03:37 --> 03:38 [SPEAKER_00]: It's supposed to be all about him.
03:38 --> 03:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, not right there.
03:39 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't.
03:40 --> 03:42 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, by the way, forgot to mention this at the start.
03:42 --> 03:44 [SPEAKER_02]: We did pre-tap with Jordan Schuster.
03:44 --> 03:45 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we got about 10 minutes with him.
03:45 --> 03:54 [SPEAKER_02]: That will add in here in the podcast, a good discussion on some of the draft lottery and some of the rumblings here from winter meetings.
03:54 --> 03:55 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what?
03:55 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll out Jordan a little bit here in the best of ways.
03:58 --> 04:01 [SPEAKER_00]: He, he very much was itching to come on and make an appearance.
04:01 --> 04:06 [SPEAKER_00]: We were recording on Monday and he was kind of walking by as we're waiting to set up.
04:06 --> 04:16 [SPEAKER_00]: He was in the middle of a couple different things and he's like, if you guys recorded and I might have been down to stop and hop on for a guest appearance and we're like, we'll hold you to that for the next one we record here.
04:16 --> 04:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So he hopped on.
04:18 --> 04:25 [SPEAKER_00]: He wanted to share some thoughts and he always, always is super insightful about baseball, about the Mariners, certainly.
04:25 --> 04:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, we'll add that into this episode a little bit later, but always fun to talk with very, very good friend of the pod Jordan Schoesterman.
04:32 --> 04:38 [SPEAKER_02]: And there's a couple of notes from that conversation that relate to the topics that Lana will talk about on this episode.
04:38 --> 04:45 [SPEAKER_02]: We have, I think, two main ones that have now stuck out to us over the time since we recorded our last episode.
04:45 --> 04:47 [SPEAKER_02]: So let's start with the first one.
04:48 --> 04:52 [SPEAKER_02]: We've, of course, talked about Kitsel Marte on Monday show as we should.
04:52 --> 04:55 [SPEAKER_02]: It does seem like there's a solid chance Kitsel Marte gets traded.
04:55 --> 05:02 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it's 50, 50, I don't know if it's 80, 20, but teams are talking to the Diamondbacks about Kitsel Marte.
05:02 --> 05:04 [SPEAKER_02]: There is some smoke there.
05:04 --> 05:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Whether or not the smoke is strong with the Mariners, you know, it's been, it's been light.
05:09 --> 05:18 [SPEAKER_02]: But for the suggested trade package for Kitsel Marte, the words told us that we said on Monday's episode was
05:19 --> 05:24 [SPEAKER_02]: We then put forward a one-soto-like package for everyone to talk about.
05:25 --> 05:26 [SPEAKER_02]: For everyone to think about.
05:26 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, look, at this point, if you want to tell Marta, this is what it's going to cost.
05:33 --> 05:35 [SPEAKER_02]: This is what it's going to take for the Diamondbacks to say yes.
05:36 --> 05:37 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the Mariners fan base has spoken while.
05:39 --> 05:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and maybe it's not fair to call the Mariners fan base just people in our Twitter replies, but I'll let you read the number at time of recording.
05:47 --> 05:49 [SPEAKER_00]: This has been up for four hours.
05:49 --> 05:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Three hours and change.
05:50 --> 05:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
05:52 --> 05:58 [SPEAKER_02]: So we post it and it right now has three hundred and twenty seven replies to a hundred and one life.
05:58 --> 06:04 [SPEAKER_02]: That tells you everything you need to know about the trade package, which is, in summary, is what we set on the podcast.
06:04 --> 06:25 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, if this is what it's going to take for the Diamondbacks to say, yes, is it smart strategy to trade in every day, in every day's second baseman, one of your five starting rotation members, one of your top pitching prospects and an outfield contributor and Dom Canzone, who might have a solid impact?
06:25 --> 06:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Does that make you better, and we said probably not.
06:28 --> 06:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the replies are saying the same thing.
06:30 --> 06:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's why I'm so surprised people are coming at us with this stuff.
06:34 --> 06:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I don't think that deal makes the Mariners better.
06:37 --> 06:37 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what we said.
06:37 --> 06:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just too much to give up.
06:39 --> 06:42 [SPEAKER_00]: For as good as Catell Martaia's, actually that's not even fair.
06:42 --> 06:44 [SPEAKER_00]: For as great as Catell Martaia's.
06:44 --> 06:48 [SPEAKER_00]: This has been one of the ten best hitters in baseball by WRC+.
06:48 --> 06:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Each of the last two years.
06:50 --> 06:53 [SPEAKER_00]: He is one of the best hitters in major league baseball.
06:53 --> 06:57 [SPEAKER_00]: However, over the next five years, what happens is he's still playing the field.
06:57 --> 06:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Is he only a DH?
06:58 --> 07:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Does the bat start to go?
07:00 --> 07:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Does the power start to go?
07:01 --> 07:05 [SPEAKER_00]: To give up everything that would be in a so-to-type package?
07:06 --> 07:13 [SPEAKER_00]: For Catelmarte, including somebody like Kate Anderson, who should be able to move quickly and get into your rotation?
07:13 --> 07:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Within the next two years at most, you're in a half.
07:17 --> 07:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, man, that's a lot.
07:18 --> 07:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we do that, but when we hear one subtle level package, we're trying to put together something for everybody to just think about, in terms of if this is what the industry's saying, and they're saying, this is what they think it would cost.
07:29 --> 07:31 [SPEAKER_00]: What does that look like from a Mariners perspective?
07:31 --> 07:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And we tried to put together the best thing we could.
07:33 --> 07:34 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to like it.
07:34 --> 07:35 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't like it.
07:35 --> 07:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we do that.
07:37 --> 07:41 [SPEAKER_00]: But that may be what the Diamondbacks are asking for, because they have all the leverage here.
07:41 --> 07:41 [SPEAKER_00]: to trade them.
07:41 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_02]: And that puts the Mariners in a tougher predicament if they really want to make that impact move.
07:46 --> 07:50 [SPEAKER_02]: And we'll talk about a couple of jury depoto quotes as well that came out during the course of the winter meetings.
07:50 --> 07:54 [SPEAKER_02]: He said he anticipates them adding a bat within the next week or so.
07:54 --> 07:59 [SPEAKER_02]: I would or if you want to be a little more generous, you can just say by the end of the year and improve this roster.
08:00 --> 08:03 [SPEAKER_02]: It might not be Katel Marté if that's the price.
08:03 --> 08:03 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's right.
08:04 --> 08:06 [SPEAKER_02]: I just changed some other team pays that price.
08:06 --> 08:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Someone else might be a little more desperate than the Mariners are.
08:08 --> 08:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're not the only team in on this.
08:10 --> 08:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Far from it.
08:11 --> 08:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the Red Sox are in on it.
08:12 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there was, I guess a report that the pirates are in on it.
08:15 --> 08:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not buying that.
08:16 --> 08:18 [SPEAKER_00]: But he is going to have a heavy market.
08:18 --> 08:20 [SPEAKER_00]: If he is out there being shocked around for trade.
08:20 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not just going to be the Mariners.
08:22 --> 08:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And like Jerry DiPoto said, which is probably a good transition here into his appearance on MLB network today.
08:28 --> 08:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's fair to say that the Mariners probably aren't trading out of the rotation at all.
08:33 --> 08:43 [SPEAKER_00]: They haven't done it the last two winners despite all the speculation about it, despite all the ideas about it, despite everything we've said about it, I don't think they're going to do it and he has been steadfast about that for a while.
08:43 --> 08:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is their rotation heading into 2026 and that's what he said on the network today.
08:48 --> 08:57 [SPEAKER_02]: One notable thing that sticks out there about, I'd say, to start, Jose Ferrer was among one of the Mariners' top targets.
08:57 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_02]: to go for and a trade this off season.
08:59 --> 09:04 [SPEAKER_02]: So he wasn't just some random throwing to get rid of Harry Ford out of your system.
09:04 --> 09:13 [SPEAKER_02]: The Mariners had an idea going into this offseason who they would want to upgrade their bullpen and Josef Rare seems to be pretty high on their list.
09:13 --> 09:14 [SPEAKER_02]: This wasn't random.
09:14 --> 09:15 [SPEAKER_00]: No, not at all.
09:15 --> 09:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, if it's up to TJ and I, we would still say go get one more real leverage arm.
09:20 --> 09:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think they look at Jose Ferrer as a guy that they really are going to rely on.
09:25 --> 09:27 [SPEAKER_00]: In 26, I think you put it well the other day.
09:28 --> 09:30 [SPEAKER_00]: This is essentially what they wanted Caleb Ferguson to be.
09:31 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I think they want to rely on Ferrer have two very good lefties in the pen.
09:35 --> 09:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're going to look at a guy with a high ground ball rate, a very low walk rate, who throws hard, and will say, yeah, like this is going to, this is going to be a guy we really factor into our plans in 26.
09:45 --> 09:48 [SPEAKER_02]: The other two quotes, you can kind of combine them together.
09:48 --> 09:55 [SPEAKER_02]: One was reverencing, they would like to acquire a bat via trade or for agency within the next seven.
09:55 --> 09:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Hopefully he said within the next seven days.
09:57 --> 10:04 [SPEAKER_02]: The other quote was, we want someone to take pressure off the young bats could be a third baseman,
10:04 --> 10:07 [SPEAKER_02]: which kind of just highlights the two guys we talked about on Mondays episode.
10:07 --> 10:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say who could they be talking about here?
10:09 --> 10:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Play some second place, some third, but is going to be a bat.
10:13 --> 10:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say that's Jorge Polaco and Brendan Donovan.
10:15 --> 10:24 [SPEAKER_02]: The problem is this final line on here, which you just mentioned, would throw a wrench and acquiring either of those players, Roots has nobody from the rotation is getting traded.
10:24 --> 10:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody of the fore homegrown guys is getting traded to throw an immense amount of value and Louis Castillo is not getting salary dumped.
10:32 --> 10:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
10:32 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Now that could change, things change over the course of the off season, situations arise, prices come down.
10:38 --> 10:43 [SPEAKER_02]: But as of right now, manners are pretty set on adding another bat.
10:44 --> 10:45 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe another bullpin arm and that's about it.
10:45 --> 10:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Because again, we'll circle back to it.
10:47 --> 10:52 [SPEAKER_00]: At least for the Cardinals and what they're asking price seems to be.
10:53 --> 10:55 [SPEAKER_00]: for somebody like Brendan Donovan, because they hold the leverage here.
10:55 --> 10:56 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't have to trade them.
10:56 --> 10:58 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like he has a year left on his deal.
10:59 --> 11:00 [SPEAKER_00]: They would want a starter.
11:00 --> 11:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And we'll say the map, Pierpont, thing again, who is the Cardinals director of pitching, who used to be in Seattle.
11:05 --> 11:06 [SPEAKER_00]: He knows these guys.
11:06 --> 11:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think the Cardinals will have a pretty decent idea of what they'd want and who they'd want if they were to trade Donovan away.
11:12 --> 11:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Could the package come down?
11:14 --> 11:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
11:14 --> 11:15 [SPEAKER_00]: that doesn't mean it will.
11:16 --> 11:30 [SPEAKER_00]: So with that, if you're not going to trade from your rotation, then you're going to spend the money, and you're going to have to spend the money, which I think can lead us into our Jorge Polanco conversation here, which is probably the big story of the last couple days in Mariners land here in Orlando at the winter meetings, which is.
11:31 --> 11:33 [SPEAKER_00]: His camp is asking for a lot.
11:33 --> 11:35 [SPEAKER_00]: They are looking for three to four years.
11:35 --> 11:39 [SPEAKER_00]: They're looking for an
11:39 --> 11:49 [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to take a lot if you want Polo Bang and it becomes a very, very interesting conversation of what you want to do with that spot.
11:49 --> 11:52 [SPEAKER_02]: The Mariners are in a bit of a tough position with this.
11:54 --> 12:00 [SPEAKER_02]: The four years is too much, you cannot smartly give Jorge Polanco four years.
12:01 --> 12:04 [SPEAKER_02]: The odds are the final two years that contract would not be very good at all.
12:06 --> 12:15 [SPEAKER_02]: But also some of the heat coming out of the winter meetings is that Jorge Planco very well could sign within this week, and he could find his next home.
12:16 --> 12:23 [SPEAKER_02]: That would lead me to leave someone would give him four years, and there are some bad franchise out there that give some really bad contracts.
12:24 --> 12:35 [SPEAKER_00]: or did they originally start with a four year asking price and as time's gone on, they think he could sign by the end of the winter meetings or this week because they're starting to be a more middle ground on what the deal could be.
12:36 --> 12:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they could have been bluffed out of it.
12:38 --> 12:40 [SPEAKER_02]: The team's going to be in like collectively said no.
12:40 --> 12:42 [SPEAKER_02]: There's no way he's getting four years.
12:42 --> 12:43 [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody's going to pay him four years.
12:43 --> 12:45 [SPEAKER_02]: So you might as well bring that price down right now.
12:45 --> 12:46 [SPEAKER_02]: Entirely possible.
12:47 --> 12:50 [SPEAKER_02]: Perhaps the median outcome here is he gets the three year deal.
12:51 --> 12:59 [SPEAKER_02]: everyone we talk to you say the smart move for the Mariners would be to sign Jorge Planco to a two-year deal with the vesting option for one more season.
13:00 --> 13:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And the Mariners don't usually budge on that.
13:01 --> 13:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I know they said they've changed their philosophy a little bit this year and they've wanted to be a little riskier and a little more aggressive.
13:07 --> 13:15 [SPEAKER_02]: Are they going to do that with someone who could be potentially injured and a sunk cost on their roster or an either year three or year four of a contract?
13:16 --> 13:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think they would go four years.
13:18 --> 13:24 [SPEAKER_00]: However, if there's multiple teams willing to do two years in a vesting option, what's going to make the Mariners set themselves apart?
13:26 --> 13:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, it helps the Polo likes Seattle, and he's been there, and he likes the team, and he's open to a return.
13:32 --> 13:38 [SPEAKER_00]: But let's break out the Andrew Friedman line here, because he says it, and the quote has made its waves over the years for every good reason.
13:39 --> 13:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll just look right at the camera and say it.
13:42 --> 13:48 [SPEAKER_00]: If you are rational about every free agent, you will finish third on every free agent.
13:48 --> 13:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is what the Mariners have to decide here, right?
13:51 --> 13:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you worried about Jorge Palanco in 2028 and what he could look like three years from now?
13:56 --> 13:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Or are you worried about winning in 2026?
13:59 --> 14:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I understand if they didn't want to give somebody a 10 year deal because there would be too many bad years of a contract.
14:06 --> 14:18 [SPEAKER_00]: If you hypothetically have to eat one year of a deal to prioritize winning over the next couple, when this core is just jelled together right now, you may just have to do it, man, because you can only have so many priorities.
14:18 --> 14:24 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't not trade out of your rotation, and not be willing to go with the third year with Polaco and wanting to add another bat.
14:24 --> 14:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's no way all of your demands are going to be met.
14:27 --> 14:29 [SPEAKER_00]: to fit a perfect pinhole.
14:29 --> 14:32 [SPEAKER_00]: At some point, you're going to have to sacrifice something.
14:32 --> 14:47 [SPEAKER_02]: It is playing a two-safe because the other what happens if you don't do this is that you're potentially leaving wins, you're potentially leaving an opportunity for you to be the best team in the American League this year and have the depth required to make it through 162 games and come out on top.
14:48 --> 14:57 [SPEAKER_02]: Like what happens if you don't sign Jorge Polanco and then all of a sudden that thing that made your lineup great in the final two months of the season is the depth of having
14:57 --> 15:04 [SPEAKER_02]: It would really only be having four, right, fours, Cal, Julio, Palanco.
15:04 --> 15:05 [SPEAKER_02]: Randy Randy.
15:05 --> 15:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so four a sense and nail.
15:07 --> 15:08 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so five.
15:08 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_02]: So it would be five, right?
15:10 --> 15:14 [SPEAKER_02]: You'd have five, but what if that six guy makes that difference?
15:14 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_02]: Like what if in that moment?
15:16 --> 15:24 [SPEAKER_02]: Like the sixth guy is the one that really pushes you over the top and makes you a ninety-one team sweeping assures on the road as opposed to being an 85 86.
15:24 --> 15:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Well with polo, it's the only be five because again, there's no genome here.
15:28 --> 15:28 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
15:29 --> 15:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
15:29 --> 15:29 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
15:29 --> 15:30 [SPEAKER_02]: So I did do that.
15:30 --> 15:30 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
15:30 --> 15:32 [SPEAKER_02]: So the math is you'd be a guy down.
15:32 --> 15:36 [SPEAKER_02]: If you sign Planck, you would have five, but if you didn't sign Planck, you'd have four.
15:37 --> 15:38 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
15:38 --> 15:47 [SPEAKER_02]: And having that, that's ASU math right there by the way that you just witnessed in that glorious two minutes of trying to add up the Mariners roster was not very successfully.
15:48 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_02]: But if that bat that you don't have is the difference between 85 and 90 wins,
15:55 --> 15:58 [SPEAKER_02]: and being able to whether the season that might just be something you have to do.
15:59 --> 16:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Mike, I'll go further than that.
16:00 --> 16:01 [SPEAKER_00]: You got to eat it.
16:01 --> 16:03 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to bring him back if that's the cause.
16:03 --> 16:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Especially if your option is to
16:06 --> 16:08 [SPEAKER_00]: not really upgrade anywhere else.
16:08 --> 16:18 [SPEAKER_00]: If it's, again, I'm not saying they wouldn't go sign another bat period, but if your plan is to sign a bat worse than Jorge Polanco, if Polo goes elsewhere, yeah, you gotta eat it and you gotta do it.
16:18 --> 16:27 [SPEAKER_02]: For Catel Marta, for Brendan Donovan, for Jorge Polanco, the sentiment seems to be acquiring them right now will be an overpay, and it's really gonna hurt.
16:27 --> 16:31 [SPEAKER_02]: But it might make you better in 2026 and push you over the top.
16:31 --> 16:33 [SPEAKER_02]: In the long term, it might look really bad.
16:34 --> 16:40 [SPEAKER_02]: It might be a real struggle in 2030 with these guys on your roster and you don't have as much flexibility to spend.
16:41 --> 16:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So what's the choice?
16:42 --> 16:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, because you are going to have to sacrifice something.
16:44 --> 16:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll say that again.
16:45 --> 16:47 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to sacrifice something if you want to be competitive in 26.
16:47 --> 16:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So is it going to be prospects?
16:49 --> 16:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it going to be, well, honestly, there might not even be teams taking the prospects.
16:53 --> 16:54 [SPEAKER_00]: They'd want them to take.
16:54 --> 16:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So is it going to be big league talent?
16:57 --> 16:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it going to be money?
16:58 --> 17:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it going to be getting uncomfortable out of your own blueprint?
17:02 --> 17:02 [SPEAKER_00]: something.
17:03 --> 17:04 [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to have to be something.
17:04 --> 17:09 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think we asked Jordan any about any of this, but we did sit down with a nice conversation with him.
17:09 --> 17:12 [SPEAKER_02]: He was running through here trying to get to the MLB draft lottery.
17:12 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_02]: We're able to stop him for about 10 minutes and really fun conversations.
17:15 --> 17:17 [SPEAKER_02]: I will ask you though before we wrap this up.
17:17 --> 17:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Who's the favorite person you talk to here at the winter meetings?
17:20 --> 17:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, favorite person.
17:23 --> 17:24 [SPEAKER_00]: It's one jump out.
17:24 --> 17:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was cool to talk to the John Boy guys.
17:26 --> 17:26 [SPEAKER_00]: That's for sure.
17:26 --> 17:27 [SPEAKER_02]: John Boy guys have been great.
17:28 --> 17:32 [SPEAKER_02]: We had a great conversation in this hallway with Chris Archer, former raise pitcher.
17:32 --> 17:33 [SPEAKER_00]: That was very cool.
17:34 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_00]: That would probably be who it is because it was unexpected.
17:36 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_00]: He was very nice.
17:37 --> 17:40 [SPEAKER_00]: He is super like analytically driven.
17:40 --> 17:41 [SPEAKER_00]: We learned.
17:41 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_00]: and I enjoyed talking to him.
17:42 --> 17:44 [SPEAKER_02]: Brett Phelps is very nice as well.
17:44 --> 17:45 [SPEAKER_02]: We chatted with him earlier.
17:45 --> 17:48 [SPEAKER_02]: Gosh, so many people.
17:48 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_02]: There's been a bunch.
17:49 --> 17:54 [SPEAKER_02]: It is like, it is as expensive a baseball universe here as you can possibly get.
17:54 --> 17:55 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, seriously.
17:55 --> 17:55 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
17:55 --> 17:57 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of people out here.
17:58 --> 18:01 [SPEAKER_02]: With that, fantastic conversation with Jordan Chusman.
18:01 --> 18:02 [SPEAKER_02]: We won't keep you guys anymore.
18:04 --> 18:10 [SPEAKER_02]: All right, we're here with Jordan Schusterman, half of Cessbitt's family barbecue live from the winter meetings.
18:10 --> 18:12 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you like the winter meetings, yes or no?
18:13 --> 18:13 [UNKNOWN]: Of course.
18:13 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_01]: You do?
18:14 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Great.
18:14 --> 18:22 [SPEAKER_01]: So our seventh time here at these meetings and it's even more special now that the draft flatter exists.
18:23 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_01]: As you guys learned a year ago.
18:25 --> 18:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
18:26 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, we were like, just hanging out in the lobby, and I think Lyle pulled up his phone and then goes,
18:32 --> 18:34 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, we've got to get over there.
18:35 --> 18:36 [SPEAKER_02]: It was like T.J. Run.
18:36 --> 18:41 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like they might get a lottery pick, like a top five pick here, and then it turned into three.
18:41 --> 18:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And when you guys ran in to the room last year,
18:45 --> 18:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, why weren't you in here to begin with?
18:48 --> 18:51 [SPEAKER_01]: You had a point, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, one percent chance of glory.
18:52 --> 19:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And you guys were like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
19:14 --> 19:21 [SPEAKER_02]: But we put out this trade proposal on our Monday podcast that I need to throw to you and I need to ask you whether or not this would be a good idea or not.
19:21 --> 19:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't seen it yet.
19:22 --> 19:24 [SPEAKER_02]: We're recording you on a Tuesday.
19:25 --> 19:29 [SPEAKER_02]: We posted it and there was a safe to say a strong response.
19:29 --> 19:37 [SPEAKER_02]: The Trade Package is for Catell Marta, and it sounds like right now there is a ballad dead even chance of him getting traded versus not getting traded.
19:38 --> 19:41 [SPEAKER_02]: The Trade Package we put together for the Mariners because it sounds really high right now.
19:42 --> 19:46 [SPEAKER_02]: George Kirby, Cole Young, Kate Anderson, and Dom Kanson.
19:47 --> 19:48 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot.
19:48 --> 19:52 [SPEAKER_01]: That's gonna be too much for me, don't you?
19:52 --> 19:52 [SPEAKER_01]: He is kidding me.
19:52 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's be... That's gonna be way too much for me.
19:57 --> 19:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I was ready.
19:58 --> 20:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, when you said George Kirby, I was like, all right.
20:03 --> 20:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you just kept going, and it's like, hold on now.
20:08 --> 20:12 [SPEAKER_01]: To be fair, we like, this is not a commentary on Catamarte.
20:12 --> 20:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I think what's really wrong with the Mariners specifically overpaying for Catel is like, Catel's awesome.
20:22 --> 20:26 [SPEAKER_01]: and I understand that I think that would do it.
20:26 --> 20:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the trade that you're saying we'll get the job done.
20:29 --> 20:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure that makes the Mariners definitely getting ready to call you on Android Kirby and Kate Anderson who also might factor into your 2026.
20:37 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually am not sure that's making them.
20:41 --> 20:48 [SPEAKER_01]: a better enough, especially when there are other ways that they can more realistically improve their team without trading away that much talent.
20:48 --> 20:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, and to be fair, that was our... And so, by the way, also, it was like, obviously a player.
20:51 --> 20:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which to be fair was our exact answer to this.
20:53 --> 20:56 [SPEAKER_00]: We were not saying we would do this if we were the Mariners.
20:56 --> 20:59 [SPEAKER_00]: We were trying to put together how do you get the Diamondbacks to say yes?
20:59 --> 21:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Because if they're asking the world, you have to put together a trade package like that, totally.
21:03 --> 21:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Some soda level package.
21:05 --> 21:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I think so too, and I think my problems with it
21:11 --> 21:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Why could tell is maybe not a fit for Seattle?
21:15 --> 21:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Is I just think that the kinds of pitchers, I don't think they're willing to trade from the majorly rotation.
21:20 --> 21:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that the dynamics are looking for really
21:27 --> 21:31 [SPEAKER_01]: almost like in between what they have already and what they have coming.
21:31 --> 21:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like guys that are maybe one year in.
21:33 --> 21:41 [SPEAKER_01]: The mets are a better, I know they just got semi in, but the Nolan McLean type, who's like has five or six years left of service, but it's also shown something in the majors.
21:41 --> 21:45 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a short list of pitchers, a Peyton Toli, currently early, right?
21:45 --> 21:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas like Bryce Miller, George Kirby, goes to the guys like that, and then like the Kate Anderson's Joranjolo, et cetera.
21:52 --> 21:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I think they're looking for something in between those guys in terms of experience, talent, etc.
21:57 --> 22:04 [SPEAKER_02]: At some point though, for a draft develop and trade organization, the Mariners are going to have to trade the guys, they
22:04 --> 22:29 [SPEAKER_02]: won't be able to sign it's going to it would be a value malpractice for them to let these guys walk out the door if they're not willing to sign an extension now for George Kirby if that's what he ultimately decides that's three years down the road but if you want the most value for him if you're going to say out of all the trades we could cook up to potentially make this team better and manage this properly for a guy who's not going to sign your long term when she want to tell marte back
22:29 --> 22:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I think a trade that was like George Kirby and prospects that are not Kate Anderson and a lot of them, that would be something that I think would be more tolerable and more worthwhile pursuing because now you're swapping out a good picture for a great hitter.
22:50 --> 22:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're not trading away a piece like a Kate Anderson that's probably going to impact you soon And you're trading more from the depth.
22:58 --> 23:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So, but they've been at this point I have you really shocking if they trade for the major rotation for for literally anybody, right?
23:05 --> 23:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's kind of nice to be past that because But I don't know we'll see and and that the thing is
23:12 --> 23:21 [SPEAKER_01]: As we mentioned, there's clearly other avenues for them to improve the offense, whether that's retaining pole or whether that's trading for a bread and donovan, which I think a much more reasonable goal, so we'll see what we'll see where they're at.
23:21 --> 23:23 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think it tells on the move, and I don't think it's the Mariners.
23:24 --> 23:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
23:24 --> 23:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Any chance the Mariners could do both of those things last thing here for you, could they trade for Donovan and Simpo, though?
23:29 --> 23:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I would hope so.
23:31 --> 23:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like financially, I would hope so.
23:34 --> 23:38 [SPEAKER_01]: It shouldn't if the problem should not be if the issue is you can't afford that.
23:38 --> 23:40 [SPEAKER_01]: That's, I don't, I don't like to hear that.
23:41 --> 23:42 [SPEAKER_02]: And last last thing, Jordan.
23:42 --> 23:44 [SPEAKER_02]: I know you're a huge fan of Jose Ferrer.
23:44 --> 23:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I am, I'm in.
23:45 --> 23:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm in, I'm in.
23:47 --> 23:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Talked about it on the pod, we recorded.
23:49 --> 23:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Today, I just think that he was one of the best relievers that was available.
23:54 --> 24:00 [SPEAKER_01]: This this offseason that for the merit right, we're going to give it to you as 69 million dollars.
24:00 --> 24:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think he was one of the best pitchers that they could have gotten.
24:03 --> 24:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And I love the fit and I wish Harry Ford the best.
24:05 --> 24:06 [SPEAKER_02]: Jordan, thanks.
24:06 --> 24:07 [SPEAKER_02]: Go get to that draft vlog.
24:07 --> 24:07 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going.
24:07 --> 24:08 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going.
24:08 --> 24:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you guys.
24:11 --> 24:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Jordan was awesome, shout out to him.
24:12 --> 24:14 [SPEAKER_00]: We all we love talking ball with him.
24:14 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And, man, this trip to the winter meetings has been really fun.
24:17 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_00]: This has been two years in a row where we've had a blast doing it.
24:19 --> 24:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully we've been able to give you guys some stuff that was a little bit behind the scenes.
24:23 --> 24:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I know we enjoy our time here every year.
24:24 --> 24:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And, and I'm already looking forward to it again next year.
24:27 --> 24:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So.
24:28 --> 24:31 [SPEAKER_00]: With that, that'll just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Lairer Podcast.
24:31 --> 24:32 [SPEAKER_00]: You guys know the drill.
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24:47 --> 24:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Find us all over our website, marinelairpod.com where we've got our merch.
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24:55 --> 24:57 [SPEAKER_00]: That's TJ, I'm Lyle.
24:57 --> 25:00 [SPEAKER_00]: As always, we thank you guys for tuning in, talk to you soon.