Episode 438: All Our Takeaways Following The Mariners Trade Deadline

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number four thirty eight of the Marine Layer Podcast. The trade deadline has passed and we'll give our thoughts on how the Mariners did and what lays ahead in the final two months of the season. 00:00:11 Speaker 2: A reminder of you guys before we start this episode, just make sure you download these podcast episodes if you're listening, if you're watching, take a second and make sure to hit that subscribe button on YouTube. You can also find us at our website, marine layerpod dot com. If you're looking for another place for our episodes, they're all there as well. Our Patreon's also there. All of our podcast merch is also there. That's at marine layerpod dot com. And then check us out across social media. We're posting content every day on all platforms at marine Layer Pod. 00:00:39 Speaker 1: Let's get it rolling, and we've welcome this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball podcast network, recording here on Monday afternoon, August third. The trade deadline is over lyle and I will say I feel very neah. 00:01:10 Speaker 2: It's kind of my reaction just ugh. I don't even have a word for it. 00:01:14 Speaker 1: It just lines up with the Mariner season. The Mariner season this year has been kind of neh, kind of trade deadline has been kind of ne kind of. 00:01:26 Speaker 3: To which one of those. 00:01:28 Speaker 2: Both, well, especially the season. The season has not kind of been mad. The season has been has been a complete letdown, And I would put the trade deadline in a similar bucket. 00:01:37 Speaker 1: Well, the result of their season is that they're like essentially a five hundred baseball team, which really is just like a meh, that's that's what that is five hundred. 00:01:46 Speaker 2: Okay, But when your expectations are set preseason of you're gonna go to the World Series or have a really good chance, no, like the drop off there is more than me. 00:01:57 Speaker 1: Okay, fine, I will judge the season as a whole is a bigger disappointment than the trade deadline itself. The trade deadline is what we expected. We've been saying for weeks, this trade deadline was gonna be underwhelming, and then we can't just arrive to Monday afternoon after three o'clock and say, oh my god, I can't believe how underwhelming that was, Like, is this not what we predicted? 00:02:18 Speaker 2: No, it totally is an underwhelming trade deadline paired with an underwhelming season. 00:02:23 Speaker 1: Just look at all the players that got traded. Like I'm scrolling through my Twitter feed of every single player they got moved. How many like really good players? 00:02:32 Speaker 2: You like? 00:02:33 Speaker 3: Dang it? 00:02:34 Speaker 1: Like, I'm heartbroken the Mariners didn't get that guy like Luke Weaver. Definitely, he's been amazing this year. Jeff Hoffman has all of the tools as a reliever to be a really good arm I mean, there's not really a bat out there that you're like, this is like, this is a perfect fit for the Mariners. This guy needs to be on this team. I'm disappointed they didn't get them. It's just like a whole lot of whatever. I think the Mariners could have gotten marginally better by adding some more, but there's there's just not a lot of good players available. 00:03:10 Speaker 2: No, no, there's not at all. And Jeff Hoffman, if you want to look further into what he's done since June, he's been really good. He's really turned it around since those first two months. How much you want to bet the Jeff Hoffman thing has everything to do with the contract he's owed and the Mariners not wanted to take on money. 00:03:28 Speaker 1: And Luke Weaver could be the exact same thing because they make the same amount of money. 00:03:32 Speaker 3: I would one hundred percent believe that. 00:03:34 Speaker 1: I don't think it's any coincidence that the money that the Mariner's subtracted by trading Luis Castile away and then added by trading for Taylor Ward, Sir Anthony Dominguez Nolan Jones is making some money as well. It nets out only slightly below what Louis Castile was owded. 00:03:54 Speaker 3: I don't really think that's much of a coincidence. 00:03:57 Speaker 2: Oh so you mean the Mariners wouldn't add to their payroll. What a shocker? Is that? What you mean? Yeah? 00:04:03 Speaker 1: No, I don't think the Maritas would add to the payroll, and it checks out. I mean, this front office and ownership group does not spend money on their bullpen at all, and this deadline kind of lines up with it. They've had their chance the last couple of deadlines to make a splash where they could have a reliever who makes above market rate value, but that never ended up happening. They never actually acquired any of those guys. There again, there's one guy. One guy ever Mariners have purposely signed and given a decent amount of change to to pitch in their bullpen, and he lasted four months on the roster and was traded away in Ryan Stanek. 00:04:40 Speaker 3: Ryan Stanek. 00:04:40 Speaker 1: Yes, and if Sir Anthony Domingez stays on this roster through next year, that will be two of them. 00:04:45 Speaker 3: But that's it. 00:04:46 Speaker 2: If you want to go back aways. Didn't they sign Juan Nicassio, who was also awful back in twenty eighteen? 00:04:53 Speaker 3: How much did they spend on him? 00:04:55 Speaker 2: I remember him getting a decent chunk of change. Juan Nicasio got a two year on tract that was worth seventeen million bucks. 00:05:02 Speaker 3: H goods, good point. 00:05:05 Speaker 1: Maybe he was the Maybe he's the PTSD of why they don't do it. 00:05:09 Speaker 2: I guess I don't think. I don't think one bad move should negate all future potential bullpen signings. But you know what, man, this goes back to a bigger picture, and I talked about it in the reaction we just put out on social media. This goes back to a problem the Mariners have now had for the last calendar year and have not addressed. They have still yet to address, and it is they are a leverage bullpen arm short, not a Sir Anthony Dominguez, not even a Jeff Hoffman, like I mean, maybe Jeff Hoffman two years ago would have fit this mold, not current. Jeff Hoffman, the guy they're missing, they still have not added, and they have not added him since they whiffed on Joe on Durant. They were this close to getting them. I think they thought the deal was done last year. I think they believed he was coming to Seattle, and then it got what's the right word, I mean it got wiped away last week. 00:05:59 Speaker 3: From under them. 00:06:00 Speaker 2: Yeah, they got the rug pulled last second when Philly came in last minute with a better deal in the Twins eyes. But since then they have not added that guy. And we knew this trade market was going to be weak. We knew this trade market was light. We knew it wasn't filled with household names, which is why we said all off season, you have got to go get that leverage arm. Jose Ferrara is not enough. I know he's had a nice season really up until the last two weeks, but you needed somebody more proven in addition to that to put in your bullpen, and it still doesn't exist. That's where you've run into problems. I am not heartbroken over missing on Luke Weaver and Jeff Hoffman. Would they have been nice additions for Seattle. Yes, the problem is you didn't address this earlier. You've been dealing with a leverage arm short in your bullpen all year and you're going to continue to deal with it because you couldn't address it at your deadline. 00:06:51 Speaker 1: And if the thing of the difference about approaching this during the off season versus approaching this in season is that you do have much more control in the off seat of who you're adding to your roster, who's available to add dear roster as opposed to the deadline. The deadline is a random assortment of players based on how their teams they're currently playing on are playing four months into the season. Meanwhile, everyone in the off season is just a free agent. You know they're going to be a free agent years and years in advance because that's how their contract is laid out. If you decide that you think it's a better strategy for your team to approach at the deadline, then you're going to run the risk of there just not being enough guys available. And frankly, the only guy that fell into the Duran bucket this trade deadline was Mason Miller, who didn't end up getting moved and Reportedly, the Padres were asking for Kate Anderson back for back for Mason Miller, which comes out to this, the Mariners are like, hey, we'd like Mason Miller, and AJ Preler goes okay, only if you just essentially reverse the trade I made last year, where you're gonna give us a top three prospect in all of baseball in turn for a closer with one last year of control, by the way, and of course the Mariners were never going to do that. That would be a terrible, terrible process. 00:08:03 Speaker 2: It's and that would be it would be Draft Day coming to life in real life where uh, Kevin Costner calls up the Seahawks He's like, I want my picks back, all of them, and A J. Preller is essentially doing the same thing and he's like, yeah, I want my I want a top prospect back, like top of the line prospect. Otherwise forget it. It's it was Draft Day coming to life. That's that's what that trade was, or the trade. 00:08:28 Speaker 1: So that was the only guy, and it doesn't seem like he was very available. It seemed like they were only going to trade him for a crazy, crazy package. I'm sure the Mariners even offered one of their starters. It had been reported all day that Kirby and Hancock were still available and still on the table. He's the only guy I could have seen them trading him for, right who like not even like they weren't going to trade for adlei Utchman. Who was the other biggest name I think to be traded right well, But sadly it was Freddy Peralta. 00:08:55 Speaker 3: It was, Yeah, it was. 00:08:57 Speaker 1: I think those two guys were maybe the two biggest names besides Skill trade it at this deadline. And I think Mason Miller would have been the only guide that the Mariners could have justified trading one of those two starters for. And the Padres ended up trading for a starter anyway, in Casey myz Oh and Robbie Ray two rentals instead of going after guys with more control. So I think that kind of tells you, like maybe what the Mariner's idea were to try and get that leverage arm and when they couldn't get him, it was just gonna be not Really. 00:09:27 Speaker 2: Does it not feel like the Mariners were the ones that leaked out that reported trade package? Does to me, because let's be real, they're trying to save their skin a little bit. They did not want people clamoring and clamoring about why didn't you go trade for Mason Miller. They wanted that package leaked out there to try to show people, hey, this is why we didn't trade for him. Which fine. I don't think anybody disagrees about the notion of not trading Kate Anderson for Mason Miller. I think everybody believes that that would have been a bad trade or would have been an overpay at the very least. But it doesn't It doesn't excuse you from the fact that you still haven't added this leverage arm. If you didn't like the price for Mason Miller, fine, but you had a whole off season to figure this out, and it didn't even have to be through free agency. If you weren't going to sign a bullpen arm, there still could have been a trade that you could have made for a bullpen arm in the off season. And the difference between the off season and now is you didn't have a clock you were going up against. You could have figured this out for four months time, and after they added Jose Ferrara, they essentially decided we're good. Well, you're not good especially after you decided to run out a six man rotation and put extra emphasis on all these bullpen arms, and now some of them are starting to feel like have the air come out of the balloon a little bit? Bizarno for Rare. Obviously you don't have Brash and Chriswell, they're on the il like this is where we're at. 00:10:53 Speaker 1: Man, I wonder if the Mariners were ever interested in Luke Weaver or Jeff Hoffe, or they weren't even on the table. I mean, I don't even There wasn't much connecting them to those two guys publicly, right. 00:11:08 Speaker 2: No, And the Mariners sometimes keep things pretty close to the vest. We hadn't heard anything about Ward other than really us and other people talking about them and floating the idea out there. 00:11:17 Speaker 3: The Mariners aren't the opposite pretty much. 00:11:19 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like the Mariners aren't like the Mets. The Mets let reports leak and leak and leak and leak, and then if finally something happens. When the Mariners have something happen, it's usually just that passing reports it and there's a passing bomb basically, So that's how it usually goes. 00:11:35 Speaker 1: If I'm gonna guess how the Mariners approach the reliever part of this deadline they're gonna put. They put Mason Miller on a pedestal up here, saying, if the if the price makes sense, we're trading for this guy. 00:11:44 Speaker 3: That's what I think, and then the rest of the guys I'm not. 00:11:47 Speaker 1: I'm not convinced that they thought the relievers out there available were that much better than the guys they currently have. Whether or not you agree with that or not, that's gonna be my guess. And you factor in what you'd have to give up to acquire those guys, whether it be monetarily, which is stupid, it's two months worth of salary, and then you could figure it out in the off season you dump the contract away or whatever. You figure it out, or it's like the prospects that you give up for it, which lines up with how the Mariners think about relievers. They don't really like giving up stuff for relievers, knowing how volatile they are and how much they turn through these guys every single year. 00:12:26 Speaker 2: Except that this idea of the steckend Rider bucket is fading since twenty twenty three, when they had those three guys all really work out and gave Spyer justin topa Taylor Salcedo. Since then, how many true steckend rider bucket guys have you found? I guess Bizarto. But it's not like it's been a lot. 00:12:45 Speaker 3: Like no it. 00:12:47 Speaker 2: They haven't had that same hit rate with relievers, and as a result, they've paid some price for it at points this season, And you may pay prices for it now down the road because you didn't add anything at the deadline. 00:13:00 Speaker 1: Well, I know how hesitant they can also be by getting some of these rental relievers. The Marriers have acquired rental relievers each of the last two seasons. Do you remember how those went? 00:13:10 Speaker 2: Okay, but Caleb Ferguson is not in the same bucket as Mason Miller. He's not even in the same bucket. 00:13:16 Speaker 1: It's okay, Well, I'm not comparing Caleb Ferguson of Mason Miller. 00:13:20 Speaker 2: Well, even rental relievers. Yeah, I guess Jimmy Garcia would have lined up a little more. 00:13:25 Speaker 1: But I mean, well, he was the other one I was going to refer the Mariners traded for him. He made two outings, three outings, sure, but they missed the rest of the season. 00:13:33 Speaker 2: What are you gonna do about an injury. You can't predict that. 00:13:37 Speaker 1: It's to show that, well, we can't rely on this. I'm not even advocating for this. I'm just trying to take people inside the mind of how the Mariners might be thinking about. 00:13:46 Speaker 2: This and what I would respond to that is what I would respond to that with is then you should have figured this out in the off season. 00:13:53 Speaker 3: That's what And I'm one hundred percent with you on that. 00:13:55 Speaker 2: It's as simple as that. Even when we had all the hype in the world around this team back in February and March, the one thing we constantly said was they need another leverage reliever. You're feeling the price of it now. You just are. And this is what happens. This is what happens when you put too much emphasis on the trade deadline. The Mariners have publicly talked about this and they've showed their actions with this. They use the trade deadline as part of their acquisition phase and a major part of their acquisition phase, and there's years where it works. They nailed it last year with Naylor and Gino and almost getting Durant, But the trademarket in general is just too unpredictable. So while there's years that it works, there are years where it doesn't. Twenty twenty three, for example. Maybe that was more to do with the fact that they were right on the brink in terms of buying versus selling and which direction did they want to go, and that's why they weren't more aggressive. But this is why you can't overly rely on the trade deadline. There are years where it's unpredictable. And when you have a year like this where the town is down the price, the asking prices are high, and the amount of surplus value is limited, then this is what you're stuck paying the price of. This is what you're stuck paying the price of because you end up shorthanded. And this is what's happened this year with them being overly reliant on the trade deadline. As part of their process to be fair, they obviously used the off season heavily this year. They got Donovan, they re signed Naylor, and they signed Refsnyder. I know that one hasn't worked, the ref Snyder one, but it was part of the off season plan and part of their blueprint. But as a result, the failure to go acquire another leverage reliever has now cost them. Or when Jason Churchill told us ahead of the start of the season that they were still a bat short and they needed another guy, at least one more guy, Well they didn't go get that in the off season either, And then when there's no true good bats available at the deadline again, you're left short handed. 00:16:01 Speaker 1: Well, kind of hard to argue with any of that. I guess I'm sitting here wondering before we talk about Taylor Ward, because there was at least some positive today. I do think the Mariners get better with Taylor Ward. 00:16:11 Speaker 3: But I'm wondering. 00:16:12 Speaker 1: I'm sitting here wondering as the Mariners entered this final day, what were they going to trade George Kirby or Emerson Hancock for? Like I still don't see even if they hypothetically offered Hancock or Kirby to for Mason Miller, I've been in the boat where I don't think that makes much sense. And I don't think that really makes your team that much better this season. 00:16:35 Speaker 3: So if not. 00:16:35 Speaker 1: Mason Miller, who else, Like, who are they trying to get? There was no one traded today that I think was worth either of those two. 00:16:46 Speaker 2: I mean, it would have been a little shocking because this would have been an indivision trade. But of the names that were floated out there, I wonder if they were trying to get wyat Langford because his name got floated out there today, that the Rangers were listening on him and they need they often need starting pitching. A lot of their starters are old. They talked about they were floating to gram and evolve the out there today too for trades. In fact, de Graham rejected any trade packages. He said, I'm not going to wave my no trade clause. I wonder if the Rangers were looking for some controllable pitching and the Mariners were interested in why at Langford and nothing happened. I mean, because if you want to throw out names of who would the Mariners value in terms of a return for George Kirby or Emerson Hancock. Of the names that we saw out there today, that's the only one that really would have made a lot of sense. 00:17:31 Speaker 1: But how do you get the Rangers to say yes to that? It's George Kirby, Plus, I don't. 00:17:37 Speaker 2: Know how you get them to say yes. But your question was who do you think the Mariners were listening to? Offers on if they're trying to sell high maybe it was Langford, or maybe it's a bat we weren't even thinking of, or a bat that wasn't made publicly available that they were trying to poach. 00:17:50 Speaker 1: That's fair point. Langford would be great, He's exactly what the Mariners need. 00:17:54 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. 00:17:55 Speaker 1: But no individual trades for a guy like that are pretty tricky out now. But at the end of the day, both those guys are still in the Mariners rotation and the Mariners have their five to go the you know, the rest of the season with as they get into the postseason, do you have anything left on this bullpen before we talk about Taylor Warren. 00:18:14 Speaker 2: Not necessarily the bullpen, but because none of the starters got traded, you still have a situation that you're gonna have to take on next year where you're gonna have to make space for Kate Anderson at some point, likely Ryan Sloan too. So at some point somebody's gonna have to get traded, right, somebody will get traded, because. 00:18:34 Speaker 3: Otherwise one's gonna get traded. 00:18:35 Speaker 2: Yeah, otherwise you're going back to this whole ridiculous piggyback thing that they ran for the first four months of the season and the six man rotation again. I think, I mean, I think, obviously this conversation comes back to light this winner when there's actually trades going on before a lockout or after a lockout. And I hate to say it, but while his name wasn't involved in this year's talks, I would imagine Logan Gilb where its name is going to start to get involved in talks this winner because he's going to have a year left on his deal and if the Mariners get to the point where they think they cannot extend him, well then you have to go get something back for him. 00:19:13 Speaker 3: I think I think one of them is getting traded in the offseason at least. 00:19:16 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's no way they There is this much reporting about Emerson Hancock and George Kirbickley Kirby publicly being available two reporters for a long time, for weeks and weeks on end, and that they don't end up trading one of these guys at some point, George Kirby and Emerson know that they were. 00:19:36 Speaker 3: Expendable for this team. 00:19:37 Speaker 1: Now I know they got a job to go do, and they're they're just gonna go out there and pitch, but they know now you don't make guys available that publicly and then just totally forget about trading them, especially if you a want to make room, but be try to make your team better. So and I think the Mariners, based on how they've currently been playing, still do need to make their team better, and whether it be this season or next season, that's how it's gonna have to be in the off season. 00:20:02 Speaker 2: I'm gonna be honest. I think with Logan Gilbert's free agency upcoming, I think Emerson's name and trade talks goes to the back burner. Now, sure, he was available at this deadline, but I think now with the club control he's got, it probably becomes more about Logan Gilbert and George Kirby going forward than Emerson Hancock because you're gonna need him in the rotation. You're still gonna need Arms where if you trade Hancock and then Logan Gilbert walks, well then you've overdone it like you might be in Arms short. So I think Emerson's name, I don't know that for sure, but if I had a guess, I think talks now become about Logan and Kirby. This Winter, and let's say extend Logan, which would be great, but we haven't seen that yet. 00:20:44 Speaker 1: It depends what you can get back though, because Emerson Hancock at this point probably brings you more Logan's one year. 00:20:51 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I guess at that point you'd say to yourself, Okay, if we trade Emerson for a Bat or Kirby for a bat, one of those guys and then Logan Gilbert walk you'd still have Ryan Sloan. So if you hypothetically traded Kirby and then Logan Walked, then you'd still have Wu Miller, Cad Sloan, and Emerson Hancock and Logan Evans as the rotation options, which still is pretty good. But yeah, I mean, you could still make it work. I just wonder if with Emerson's club control, Logan's free agency upcoming now, as we move forward, talks become more about him. 00:21:29 Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. 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Head to cozyearth dot com and use our code Marine for an exclusive twenty percent off. That's code Marine maarn for an exclusive twenty percent off. And if you see a post purchase survey mention that you heard about Cozy Earth right here. The Maritors acquired Taylor Ward this morning, right at about nine thirty while things were trending in a positive direction, and they got it for three minor league pitchers, Alex Hoppy and Brock Moore, the two notable ones going back to Baltimore. Yeah, it was all those rumors throughout the last couple of weeks and talking to our friend Adam Jude, who was on here saying he didn't feel like the Mariners and Orioles lined up well in this scenario. They did, and I'll say this, this does make them better. They did get better with this move. 00:23:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes the team better. If you want to focus on the positives first, I'll let you go. 00:24:03 Speaker 1: Well, Taylor Ward is top ten in Major League Baseball and walks and on base percentage. Say that's positive. The Marritorers are now the only team in baseball I can't believe the stat is real. Shout out to our friends at just Baseball for digging this out. The only team in Major League Baseball to have two players with an on base percentage of three to seventy five or higher. 00:24:25 Speaker 2: I don't know how that's possible. I really don't that. 00:24:28 Speaker 1: Just I don't either, But Randy rose Arena and Taylor Ward are two guys with above three seventy five on base percentage, which is it's just bonkers. So what Taylor Ward is gonna bring you is he's gonna get on base and get on base more. His power, which he has shown plenty of in the past. He had thirty six home runs last year, has totally evaporated. It's gone his barrel rates down. I don't think he's hitting the ball as hard anymore, and he's making up for it in walks. If you want a positive spin on that. WRC plus this year and last year are the exact same. So his offensive value to a team is the same as he hits thirty six home runs as it is when he has a. 00:25:11 Speaker 3: Three eighty three on base percentage. 00:25:14 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, I think the Mariners do to need a little bit more pop because they're current lineups not hitting for enough pop. 00:25:22 Speaker 2: No, it's not well, if you've dissected all that, are we ready to move further into the other side of Taylor Ward. You just mentioned this, I mean you just mentioned his season numbers. You mentioned that his WRC plus is the same at this point this year as it was last year. Right, Well, Unfortunately most of that was anchored by a great April for Taylor Ward. Since May first, he has not been an all star level bat. He hasn't even been an above average bat. He's been literally average. Since May first, he has got a one hundred WRC plus for the season. The last three months, he has been a league average hitter at best. And that's highlighted by the fact he's slugging threeh eight for the last three months, not on basing threeh eight, which isn't a great on base percentage, but it's you know, it's whatever, slugging threeh eight. Talk about evaporated power that is non existent. I'm sorry, man, Like I got a temper. I gotta temper my expectations on this Taylor Ward thing. It's just like, it's not the same guy. This is not the same Tailor Ward that was an Anaheim. 00:26:35 Speaker 1: But at the very least he's taking Rob Refsneider's spot, Like Refsnyder a Roeblists are getting cut tomorrow. 00:26:42 Speaker 2: Well, so it's all this all depends on the perspective you view the lens of the Tailor Ward trade in. If you view it in the lens of he's about to give you a boost over Refsnyder a Roeblaze. That is true, and truthfully, if I had to guess, it's gonna be ref Snyder because again roblaz still has some defensive value or Refsnyder doesn't have that but if you're viewing this in the lens of oh, we just got the Taylor Ward from Anaheim who hit thirty six homers last year and has been a staple at the top of the order for them. Yeah, the last three months and his season as a whole, are not suggesting that he has not hit for power. He has not done much damage. You mentioned that his barrel rates down, he's not hitting righties. Look, taylor Ward does hit lefties. It's always been a strength of his. But this is supposed to be an everyday player. Taylor Ward right now on the year has a six sixty eight ops or sorry, that's home versus away. Taylor Ward has a six ninety ops against right handed pitching for the year, which is right about average. And if you take out that April it gets a lot worse than that. I don't know, man like this was their headline move of the trade deadline. A guy that literally hasn't been in above league average bat in the last three months. 00:27:59 Speaker 3: But that's what was available, I know. 00:28:02 Speaker 2: And if you want glass half full on taylor Ward and more of the positive, he has still hit lefties very well in that trend or in that stretch, so in the last three months. While overall it has been below average to league average, he has still been above average against lefties. He's got about a one thirty WRC plus against lefties in the last three months. So if you're looking for the just the mere upgrade over Refsnyder or Roblaze, okay, but this is not the same tailor Ward. I partly wonder if he's I don't know for sure, you can only speculate, but I've wondered all year if he's playing a little bit banged up, because how does that power just evaporate? 00:28:42 Speaker 1: It's it's a Cal Rawley level drop off of power, and Cal's hurt. 00:28:45 Speaker 3: Cal's been hurt, right, So yeah, that would check out. 00:28:48 Speaker 1: I'd say this scenario, Llyle is not so much our argument of the Mariners didn't do enough in the offseason. I mean, the Mariners issue in this sense is that the guy they spent six million dollars on to do what Taylor Ward has done this season has been one of the worst players in baseball. Like that's that's really where the issue is. And then the other two premiere offseason signings for your lineup have been either hurt or bad offensively and now you have now at the trade deadline, you're trying to recoup some of that offensive production at this rate. I mean, I'm fine with with Taylor Ward platooning, hitting against lefties. He'll play right field, which he'll be below average out there, and the Mariners just get marginally better in their lineup. I don't know how they're gonna deal with him when he is in the lineup. I know you, I know he's not been great since May first, But a three eighty three on base percentage is a three eighty three on base percentage? Do you dare hit that towards the top of the lineup, even if there's no juice to go along with it. Cole Young's got that lead off spot, lockdown, Randy's gonna hit second or third, can Zone's gonna hit the other spot? 00:29:59 Speaker 2: So where does he go? Is he hitting ninth Taylor Ward? Well, then he'd you go, what Julio Naylor cal after that? So that's the first six? Hit seventh? And then you have to no, I wouldn't hit him seventh, him ninth Taylor Ward? Yes? Really? But what good? 00:30:16 Speaker 3: Yes? 00:30:16 Speaker 1: So what good does it do if he's getting on base in front of your two worst. 00:30:19 Speaker 2: Hitters, Colt Emerson, and then we who are we forgetting. 00:30:23 Speaker 1: Whoever else is? Whoever else is playing? 00:30:26 Speaker 2: I guess it would. I guess it would be some combo of whoever's at third base, JP West and Wilson. Although, to be fair, Brendan Donovan's about to come back and they probably will not immediately slot him back into the lead off role considering he's been out forever. He's not hit well on his rehab assignment. Maybe that's where Donovan slots in is eight and then Emerson's nine. 00:30:46 Speaker 1: I know on the reaction this morning, I said Taylor Wortchid hit in the top three of the lineup. I take that back. I should not have said that. I think Taylor Orchid hit ninth. 00:30:53 Speaker 2: In this lineup. Sure, it's fine with me. 00:30:56 Speaker 3: We'll just take Cole Young's old spot. 00:30:58 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it breaks up some lefties and a little bit because after you get past Caw who's a switch hitter, at six, you'd have two lefties in Donovan, let's say seven, Colt Emerson eight, and then you get the righty and Taylor Ward at nine, and then you get Cole Young at one, and then you have Randy at two, So it breaks it up a little bit. Is there still a lefty pocket in there where opposing teams could slot in some lefty relievers late in the game if you know you're about to get that eight seven, eight, nine to one combo, Yeah you could, but it breaks it up more than having Taylor Ward hit seven when you just have Donovan Emerson Cole Young all three in a row. In that scenario. 00:31:34 Speaker 1: If someone sitting here and listening to our description of Taylor Ward and you're like, oh my god, the Mariner's treated for a nine hole hitter, I'm supposed to view this as a positive. I feel like there's nothing but like upside with a move like this. First of all, the pieces you gave away are probably gonna be non factors, like Brock Morgan could be a decent bullpen arm, but he's struggled in Double A since the Mariners promoted him. There's a reason he's not a in the big leagues. I mean, you saw what you saw from Alex Hoppy. He's probably like a right in between Triple A and Major League back in Major League believer or I guess front end where he's pitching. He's like the last guy in that bullpen. He's a quad a reliever from what he showed, that's not something you're gonna. 00:32:18 Speaker 3: Miss that much. 00:32:18 Speaker 1: And the upside you would get from Taylor Ward over either Victor Roblis or Rob Refsnyder, even if he's only has like a seven hundred ops, that's a pretty big jump from what those two guys were giving you in that same role. So like, there is definite positive to this move. He's just not gonna come in and save this lineup. There was never anyone at this deadline that was gonna come in and save this Mariner's lineup. As Callous said, and as Jerry has said, there's the only fix for this lineup is the guy's currently in it right now, and we had to reach to the end of the deadline for it to probably finally sink in with everybody that. Yeah, I mean, it's on these guys to turn this thing around. 00:32:59 Speaker 2: That's why I'm just underwhelm man. I mean what you said about Taylor Ward's true. It's not that much downside to trying to go with a light by because it didn't cost you that much to get him. But he just like the rest of the Mariners team, has been pretty underwhelming at points this year. He's certainly been underwhelming the last three months, given the level of talent that he has in the expectation that people know he can play at. 00:33:26 Speaker 1: Ugh. 00:33:26 Speaker 2: I'm just going back to our terminology and our language at the start of the podcast, just ugh, like like whatever, Like, great they got Taylor Ward. I would have been much more excited about this in the off season, given he was coming off such a huge year. Now, okay, Like I feel like all emotions of this season have just been beaten out of me. At this point, they've just been beaten out of me. I kind of left, what's that? 00:33:51 Speaker 3: We got two months left? 00:33:53 Speaker 2: Well, then in the next two months it's on them to fix it. Have you forgotten what their August schedule looks like. 00:33:59 Speaker 3: It's it's brutal, you know, an. 00:34:03 Speaker 2: August schedule where you now do not have bullpen reinforcements aside from Sir Anthony de Minguez who walks everybody. 00:34:14 Speaker 1: The Mariners have told us they believe and they're going to turn it around. Now it's time for them to back up that talk. So that's the point of the season we're at. There's no oh, we got this injection of juice at the deadline like they did last year, got these two clear fixes into this lineup, and all of a sudden, Wow, they look totally different. The only way this team's gonna look totally different is if the players on the team start playing totally different. Otherwise it will be the same pretty much. 00:34:41 Speaker 2: And that's why I say most of the emotion of the season has already been beaten out of me. Like I had the anger stages and the grieving stages, and the points in May and June where it was just driving me nuts. Now I'm just it's the worst possible feeling, which is you don't feel like I don't feel anything these days, and that sucks. Like I just said it on social media. I want to feel something. I want this team to let me feel something, and right now it just feels extremely ho hummed. And between what's happened the last couple of weeks on the field and this deadline, I just kind of sit here and I'm like, yah, all right, like great. I just shrugged my shoulders, like all right. The Mariners added a couple guys at the deadline. It's not all that inspiring. They haven't played very inspiring baseball unless there is a significant jolt of life in the final two months. I don't know how I'm gonna change my feeling this year because I don't feel anything these days. That sucks. 00:35:40 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, his job got a lot harder at this deadline. Dan Wilson, Oh. 00:35:46 Speaker 2: Good, a man who already you know, is just absolutely on it every day of the season. Already, surely he can take on more challenges. 00:35:54 Speaker 1: Well, that's the point. And his bullpen decisions already aren't very good. And now the Mariners have to half of their current healthy leverage arms really struggling in Bizarto and Ferrara, and the Mariners added a potentially upside but also potentially downside reliever who you don't know where the ball's going on a given day, and no other proven bullpen arms. Yeah, that sounds like something that would get a lot harder for somebody. It would be harder for good managers. It's hard for guys who really struggle making decisions with their bullpens. Speaking of getting a guy like Mason Miller makes things a whole lot easier, But no, the marasn't do that. 00:36:32 Speaker 2: I mean, speaking of that, we haven't even really talked about anything from the twin series, because obviously the last couple episodes have been filled with trade talk. And they won two of three, which great. It didn't look all that inspiring considering they blew a six nothing lead Sunday. They barely came back on Saturday. But were we watching what in the world Dan was doing? On Friday? The Mariners were still in the middle of that six man rotation where you know you need more length out of your starters, You know you need more length. I mean, they pulled Bryce Miller out of the game at what was eighty seven pitches to then have both your struggling quote unquote leverage relievers in Ferrera and Bizardo, throw a full inning, get cooled off, sit in the dugout, and then get hot again and go back out for a second inning, and both of them gave up runs. 00:37:20 Speaker 1: What I mean again, I said, all the emotion was beaten out of you, and then I forgot. 00:37:25 Speaker 2: That when you brow so my bad it is for the most part, except when you then bring up Dan Wilson, and then it all comes right back, because yeah, what dude, you pulled Bryce at eighty seven pitches and a six man rotation, have multiple relievers, try to go multiple innings, which you never do and haven't done all year, and then they both give up runs like shocker, and then you lose. 00:37:47 Speaker 1: What. Well, there's that, and then there's the fact the Mariners blue. They shout out to the Mariner's offense. They got off to hot starts in all three of the games. They scored multiple runs in the first inning of every game. 00:38:00 Speaker 3: The downside is. 00:38:01 Speaker 1: They blew all of those leads, all of them, and they have a couple of walkoffs made. It's just salvage the series, but it's not really a sustainable way of playing. So you hope that the bullpen kind of irons itself out. 00:38:13 Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, this is not inspiring. 00:38:17 Speaker 1: So now you're gonna play a Tigers team this week who, yes, doesn't have Errek Schoubel anymore, but is hardly you know, like they have a worse record than the Twins, but they're definitely more talented than the Twins are. And then it really gets going this weekend with the Rays and. 00:38:31 Speaker 3: They're newly acquired ace Freddy Peralta. That's gonna be a good team. 00:38:36 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, with a rotation that's already really good or a team that's already really good. So yeah, I'm looking at this. But and then you know, people were mad on Friday about Garver coming in. Yeah, Garver and Roblazes ops is against lefties really aren't that different this year, which is kind of crazy. But I don't know, Friday just wasn't good. The weekend was whatever. I'm glad, like good they won the series. But this real August Gauntlet has the even started yet. It doesn't even really start against the Tigers a little bit. It does. It really gets going this weekend against the Rays. 00:39:07 Speaker 3: So they are. 00:39:07 Speaker 1: Gonna need to get to like five games above five hundred, and then we will start feeling more positive about the direction of this team, because if they do do that, they will have It'll come one of two ways. They will have either survived August and feasted on September, which is essentially what they did last year to get themselves into the playoffs, or they will do well against this August schedule, which would be a very positive trend. 00:39:34 Speaker 2: Mm hm. 00:39:34 Speaker 1: Those are the options in front of them right now. If they're gonna go out there and they're gonna go make us feel better and make this make the playoffs know that their roster is finalized. 00:39:43 Speaker 2: Yeah again, I would like to feel something. We'll see if that happens in August. Well, I probably will feel something in August. Just a question of whether it's good or bad. So I don't know. The juhum thing isn't very fun. But that's your trade deadline. Man. There wasn't a whole time on. They traded as starting pitcher, They added a right handed bat, they didn't get the reliever, and we'll see. I guess right. That's all you can do. 00:40:08 Speaker 3: Mm yeah, all right. 00:40:11 Speaker 2: That just about wraps up this edition of the Marine Layer podcast. You guys know the drill. If you want to listen to the full form podcast, you can do so wherever you get your audio pods. Make sure to download it. If you're listening, make sure to go rate and review five stars if you're watching, or if you're listening on Apple and Spotify and any of the audio platforms. If you're watching, just make sure to go hit subscribe on YouTube. You can also check us out at our website marine layerpod dot com. Episodes are all there, Patreon's there, podcast merchandise is all there. That's Marine layerpod dot com then find us on social media. We're posting content everywhere, every single day at Marine Layer Pod. That's TJ. I'm Lyle. It's always thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon. 00:41:00 Speaker 1: Step ste