Episode 439: Should The Mariners Put Kade Anderson In The Rotation Or Bullpen When He Is Promoted? (Mailbag)

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number four thirty nine of the Marine Layer Podcast. It's a mailbag episode, so we'll open it up and answer your best listener questions. 00:00:08 Speaker 2: Your guys. 00:00:08 Speaker 3: Reminder before we start the show, just make sure you're downloading these podcasts if you're listening, and make sure to rate and review five stars. Go hit subscribe on YouTube. You can also check our website marine layerpod dot com. You'll find our episodes, our Patreon, our podcast merch. Go get yourself some merch. It's all at marine layerpod dot com, and then follow us on social media. We're everywhere. We're posting content every day at marine Layer Pod. 00:00:31 Speaker 1: Let's get it rolling and welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball podcast network, Recording here on Tuesday evening, August fourth. The Mariners have played their first game post deadline and on Brain with the twenty twenty six team. Went exactly how you expected to a t. 00:01:05 Speaker 2: The best way I can describe it is it was an absolute meme. That game was a meme. 00:01:12 Speaker 1: You had an absolute masterclass of Seattle Mariners baseball. 00:01:16 Speaker 3: I mean it starts off by seeing the lineup come out in the afternoon, and your big trade deadline bat acquisition is hitting eighth, which, by the way, that lines up with exactly what we were trying to temper people's expectations with on Taylor Ward for three months. This guy has not slugged. He just hasn't really hit a ton. He hasn't hit righty's and the Mariners clearly know the same thing because they're hitting an eighth now. To be fair, on the other side of that coin is when he faces a lefty, I'm sure he's gonna hit toward the leadoff spot first or second. But he's hitting eighth against righties. And he's not supposed to be a rob Refsnyder platoon player. He's supposed to play every day. He's hitting eighth. This is the guy that hit thirty six home runs last year. 00:02:04 Speaker 1: Meanwhile, last year, if you go back to the deadline, Josh Naylor was betning cleanup and Aenio Swarz was betning fifth and their first game in the lineup together. Yep, it's a little bit different. 00:02:15 Speaker 2: Yeah again, this was this was your big acquisition to the deadline. He's hitting eight. 00:02:22 Speaker 1: Just and then Sir Anthony Demingez makes his debut late in this game and gives up two home runs and doesn't finish his outing. 00:02:33 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, hey, didn't walk people, that's what he usually did. 00:02:39 Speaker 2: Oh well, actually that's not true. 00:02:40 Speaker 3: He absolutely did walk people, and then he gave up a bomb man That sounds familiar to Sir Anthony de Mingue's t Mobile Park outing. 00:02:46 Speaker 1: Hmmm, maybe he was getting PTSD to his last outing in the park. 00:02:52 Speaker 2: Could be Ye, well, did he pitch in the Mariner series this year? He might have. 00:02:57 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he might have. That makes sense. But anyways, since he was up close and personal, spending more time at the ballpark than he normally would, given that he just got traded here, maybe you know, maybe it triggered those flashbacks a little bit. I want to go through the checklist here, just because you and I were talking about this before game, and like, wouldn't it be so funny if like this, the Mariners just got off to a classic twenty twenty six Mariners post deadline start and everything that could go wrong went wrong. Well that's exactly what happened today, because, like the score looks exactly how the game went. A lifeless performance by the Mariners against a team that sold at the deadline. Yeah, all right, let's do checklist right. Checklist number one main deadline bat hitting eight at DH went hitless. Deadline reliever picked up, made his debut, gave up two home runs finish the inning. Yeah the h I mentioned Taylor word went hitless. The Mariners didn't score a run in their first game post deadline. The Mariners lost eight nothing to a team that's sold at the deadline. And then to cap it all off, Dan Wilson started his press conference tonight with tough one. 00:04:22 Speaker 3: Okay, As I often like to say on the pod, I know we're on the trust tree with all our listeners, so I'm okay admitting what a sicko I am. When the Mariners win games, I usually do not watch the full postgame show. I just don't like I'll be excited about the win, happy about the win, but then I'll go do the next thing in my day. 00:04:44 Speaker 2: When the Mariners lose, I watch the entirety of the postgame show. 00:04:49 Speaker 3: Why because I specifically wait to find out if Dan Wilson is gonna say tough one after every loss or not. 00:04:56 Speaker 2: That's what a sicko I am. 00:04:58 Speaker 3: I like, I think it's so so hilarious, and I'm so invested in it at this point that I will, legit wait around during these postgame shows after losses, despite the vibe of the team being much worse and obviously the talk of the postgame show not being as upbeat, I will still wait around just to see if Dan Wilson will say tough one and tonight, oh he said it. You know, he had no other way around, and he said it, and now it's yeah, it's on social media. 00:05:23 Speaker 1: You're not the only one who does it that. There are people, like you said, who sit and wait to clip it so they can tweet it, and then there are always replies underneath where it's like, is this from tonight? Yeah, yes, from tonight? 00:05:36 Speaker 2: Dude. 00:05:36 Speaker 3: How has nobody made a compilation of this yet? If people really do have the access to these postgame shows and are clipping all these things, how is somebody out there, whether it's I don't know if somebody listening to this or somebody on Mariners Twitter, how has nobody made a compilation video of all the tough ones from this year? Maybe there's some from last year too, but specifically it has been very, very unnotice this year. Somebody's got it clip all these together? 00:06:01 Speaker 2: Right? Have you seen that meme video? 00:06:03 Speaker 3: I'm sure you have, and I'm sure some of you that are listening or watching have two of the substitute teacher, like the really old man substitute teacher who walks in every day. He's wearing like a slightly different shirt, but it's just hello, hello, hello, hello, Like. 00:06:20 Speaker 2: Have you seen that? You've seen that? Right? 00:06:22 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure, like if you're online, you've seen it. How is somebody not compiled the video yet. 00:06:28 Speaker 2: Of just Dan? It's tough one, tough one, tough one. Yeah, tough one. 00:06:33 Speaker 3: Uh, tough one, tough one, tough one, you know, tough one, tough one. 00:06:37 Speaker 2: Like at some point that's gonna happen. 00:06:41 Speaker 1: At some point you'd think he'd stop, but it just keeps happening. 00:06:45 Speaker 3: It's it's it's incredible because i mean again, people keep like not only noticing it, but then like resharing it on social media because it's become a meme. 00:06:57 Speaker 1: So in summary, the Mariners first game post deadline could not have gone any worse. If you were hoping for a beacon of hope with now less than two months to go in the season, you did not get that at all tonight. 00:07:12 Speaker 3: No, Well, before we move on to the mailbag, and I mean, unless you have other thoughts from this game, I was gonna spend something more in a positive light before we get to some mailbag questions. 00:07:24 Speaker 1: Well, this isn't gonna make any people feel any more positive when we talk about the difference between deadlines this season and last season. You know, the Mariners going into the deadline last year, we're mulling around, and once they got to the deadline, their record, you know, there were six games above five hundred, but then Mariners went won eleven of twelve immediately post deadline. Immediately you remember that, You remember that stretch we were sitting here thinking, feeling pretty good about ourselves. Were we had flipped from like like the team is solid, but it's still it's still missing pieces, buoyed by a sixty homer catcher to Oh, these deadline acquisitions are gonna win the Mariners the World Series. Yeah, I'll stay watching tonight. One game, in one game of data that we have in front of us, it looked exactly the same. 00:08:14 Speaker 3: Yeah, and there were points last year where we were pretty down, but after they got Naylor and Gino, people were fired up, and during that stretch in August that they went on post deadline. The moment that jumps out the most is the Rays game where they hadn't scored all game and then Cal hits the three run homer off Griffin Jacks to get them to win. That is the game that sticks out in my head. I mean, because that was I mean, that was electric and it was one of the clutchest moments of Cal season. 00:08:40 Speaker 1: But on top of that, I remember the down moments of the season last year being fit, Like when they were in Tampa, when it was as bad as humanly possible. I remember the thought was, I mean, the thought was the process of this team was terrible. They're not good enough. It was if they're not gonna win the World Series after acquiring all of these players, or they're not even gonna make the playoffs after acquiring all these players, then when are they ever gonna do it right? It felt almost cursed, I would say at that time. Right meanwhile, this is just total chronic underperformance across the board. 00:09:17 Speaker 3: Right again, since May first, Taylor Ward just has not put up a ton of production on offense. It's just the truth. It's just the numbers out in front of you. So I hope he turns it around. The Mariners need him to. But we're gonna see, all right, I'm gonna spend something positive and it ties into some podcast lore. 00:09:35 Speaker 2: You know where I'm going with this? 00:09:37 Speaker 1: No, actually I have no idea where you're going. 00:09:38 Speaker 2: Well, you'll know in a second. 00:09:39 Speaker 3: So some of you already know because we tweeted it out over the weekend. But I'm sitting scrolling over the weekend on social media just pretty mindlessly. 00:09:50 Speaker 2: I'm not thinking much of it. 00:09:52 Speaker 3: And what do I come across All of a sudden, I see I mean and saying this sentence doesn't even feel it should be in this galaxy. 00:10:02 Speaker 2: I see Pete crow Armstrong. 00:10:03 Speaker 3: Of all people, who has a chance to win the MVP of the National League. On Kristin Cavalari's podcast, then talking about an opening line of Babe Ruth Never Existed? Is a take that I have that might be unpopular, And he starts to go into it, and I obviously hear the opening line. I was like, wait, that sounds familiar, Like is there. 00:10:24 Speaker 2: A tie to this? 00:10:25 Speaker 3: Like is this just a take on his own or is there some tie to this? So obviously when I hear the lion and that just pops up on my feet. I say to myself, Okay, I'm gonna keep watching, and he's like. The next line he says is there is a reliever with the Mariners a couple of years ago, and right there I go, oh my god, you gotta be kidding. 00:10:44 Speaker 2: Like at that very moment, I knew. So it was. 00:10:47 Speaker 3: For those who haven't seen this podcast or this clip, it's Kristin Cavalari's podcast and she had both Pete crow Armstrong and Carson Kelly on and I think they talked about a variety of different things, including like a bunch of dating things in relations things, because I think that's the big Premisover podcast. But there's some baseball mixed in too with those guys. And they started talking about how Babe Ruth's not real, and then I hear there was this picture with the Mariners and he goes, what was his name, maybe Sasato, and Carson Kelly goes, yeah, Sasato like lefty, and he's like he was on some podcast on Zoom and he's going down the rabbit hall of how Babe Ruth may have never existed, and Pete's like, Man, I'm sitting there thinking to myself, that is awesome. 00:11:31 Speaker 2: I was like, you have gotta be fucking kidding. 00:11:33 Speaker 1: Me, dude, in what I mean, it's been what two and a half years since that clip came out at least. 00:11:43 Speaker 3: Yes, but it clearly at some point in time got on his feed, which is one absolutely nuts that that clip made it all the way to Pete crow Armstrong's feed and to the point where he remembered it enough where he's still talking about it. And again I was I would losing. I was like, there's no way. I was like, in what world is the MVP of the potential MVP of the National League talking about the Marine Layer pod on a podcast with Kristin Cavalari. 00:12:15 Speaker 2: Listen, go ahead. 00:12:17 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, well, we knew that clip made its rounds. We definitely heard from a lot of people about it, but again, it's been a long time since that podcast came out, since we had Sauce on it. We talked about that Pete didn't mention Sausado's walk around Queen Anne when he was following the north Star home. 00:12:35 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that was Maybee. 00:12:37 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe Pete saw that part too, but uh yeah, it's just been so long since that podcast came out. I wouldn't say I forgot, but like the fact PCA is like digging it up, I'm like, oh my god, I'm like, wow, he's digging back for that one. 00:12:53 Speaker 2: Oh so that's how you spun that, that's how you took that. 00:12:56 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a long time ago. I'm glad. I'm glad our stuff is ever Maybe that's my summary. 00:13:01 Speaker 3: I am too, But you want my main takeaway from that, My main takeaway from all that is, in a roundabout way, christ and Cavalari knows the marine Layer pot exists. 00:13:13 Speaker 2: And to that, I say, Sup, should we have her on? Sure? Sure that you make that happen? 00:13:23 Speaker 1: Get her on? 00:13:25 Speaker 2: Well, surely that'll be an easy get. 00:13:28 Speaker 1: You know, when you were talking about some Marine Layer podcast lore, I thought you were going to bring up Jerry to Poto talking about going back to a six man rotation instead. 00:13:37 Speaker 3: Oh god, yeah, okay, fine, we'll spend a minute on this and then get to mail back question. Jerry did a media session after the trade deadline wrapped up here on Tuesday, and one of the questions was about Kate Anderson, and he now says they're not gonna move k to the bullpen, even though earlier in the summer the reporting was that they were planning to put Cad and Sloan in the bullpen, and they talked about how they need to keep Kate Anderson stretched out because he's not at the innings that they want him to be at yet this year. But in that same presser, there was more talk about getting creative with the rotation once Kate gets up, and what does that mean. 00:14:20 Speaker 2: It's like we just got past it. You know. It's the old saying of right when I thought we were out, they. 00:14:26 Speaker 3: Pull us back in because now they're talking about wanting to go back to a six man rotation now at least to be fair. 00:14:36 Speaker 2: At least to be fair. 00:14:38 Speaker 3: This would be in September, likely when there's roster expansions and an additional reliever added to the roster at the very least there's that. But why do we insist on just throwing these six. 00:14:53 Speaker 2: Man rotations NonStop? 00:14:57 Speaker 1: You know what I was thinking about with this, Like Jerry's not gonna say it, but like if that happens for the Mariners, is that them putting themselves in the best possible opportunity in September to win that sounds like more of a development thing than like a win, like a best like build out to win games right one hundred percent, especially down this stretch, like those September games, if the Mariners find a way to claw themselves back into it, kind of like those are big, big games they'll be playing in which they need to win these. So like there are points where the Mariners might change their mind on this where they're going to prioritize like winning over development. Saying that Kate is gonna come up and start no matter what at this point sounds more like a development over winning, unless the Mariners are going to decide to put one of their other starters in the bullpen, which changes things like, all right, we want to get stretch Kate out, but we still need extra bullpen arm Emerson Hancock, Sorry, you're going in the bullpen like then, like, okay whatever at that point, but yeah, going to a six man rotation in September, Yeah, that sounded kind of strange to me. That is not something I had on my Bengo card. 00:16:17 Speaker 3: But even if you were gonna move one of your other starters to the bullpen, these are starters that have been doing it all year, I know, for as good as for as good as Kate Anderson's been, I'm sorry, let me even rephrase that, for as unbelievable as Kate Anderson's been in the minor leagues, you don't know what the translation is gonna be like to the big league level. Nobody knows for sure, And you want to toy around with that in September when you're supposed to be in a playoff chase. Yet something feels real weird about that to me, And it more goes along the lines of what you were just saying, which is development over winning, which is not ever what this season was supposed to be about. 00:16:55 Speaker 1: Right, I feel like the team might be better off, especially given their struggles, with more relief and not as many starters. Like, you take the extra slot that you're given for pitchers and you have a reliever, so instead of going to a how am I gonna math this out? It gives you an extra reliever, right, instead of the what the Mariners were doing earlier this season when they would run a six man rotation with one less reliever. Right, I kind of just tied myself into a knot with that. With that sentence. But anyways, Yeah, I think Kate would do just find out of the bullpen. I hope he hits his innings limit too. I totally understand wanting to stretch him out. I feel like if he's gonna get stretched out as a starter, kind of feel like just leave him down. Yeah, in my opinion, if like, if Sloan's hit his innings limit and he's ready to pitch in the bullpen, bring him up. 00:17:51 Speaker 2: Right, agreed. 00:17:53 Speaker 3: But if you want Kaide stretched out, then let him stay stretched out in the minors. It doesn't like, if this season's about winning, go into a six man rotation and prioritizing development in September. 00:18:09 Speaker 2: That doesn't feel right. 00:18:10 Speaker 1: Unless they don't think they're gonna be in that spot, well possible, Well. 00:18:15 Speaker 3: Then that's then that's totally counterintuitive to what they did at the deadline. You're going and getting a rental and Taylor Ward and then saying we're punting the season. 00:18:24 Speaker 1: I mean, they got a rental and didn't pay that much. 00:18:27 Speaker 3: Right, but what's the point of even getting a rental to begin with? If you know you're not gonna be where you want to be for the season, you don't go and trade for a rental. 00:18:35 Speaker 1: Just in case your team turns it around. It's like, Okay, if if this team turns it around, great, we've filled a weakness. If they don't turn it around, then it didn't really cost us that much. 00:18:46 Speaker 3: That'd be a really, really weird process. That'd be a really weird process. Again, middling teams don't trade for rentals. 00:18:55 Speaker 1: Well, the Angels do, but that's not he and to you want to stop yourself after no. 00:19:01 Speaker 2: In fact, Jerry got up and left that org. I'd say for pretty fair reasons. 00:19:07 Speaker 1: I don't think it's the craziest thing to soft buy on a roster you're not totally bought in on, especially a roster that doesn't have a lot of pending free agents like this season. Most of this team will just be back next year. 00:19:19 Speaker 3: Well, two thirds of your outfield won't be now, Randy and Taylor Ward. 00:19:24 Speaker 1: Well, that's correct, but that's why I said most, not all. 00:19:28 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. That would be a weird process to me, but that's my take. 00:19:32 Speaker 1: I would love to have someone explain to me that in September of all times, for that to work out for I guess for experimentation reasons, in a season you're trying to win. But if someone has an explanation, go leave it in the comments on YouTube, or send us an email or send us a DM. All right lyle before we get to this mail bag, want to tell everyone about Emerald Queen Casino's summer lineup of shows. 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So that sounds interesting to you, The place to go is Patreon dot com slash Marine Layer Pod. Alex starts us off on Patron and asks I would love to see the Mariners incorporate Kate Anderson and Ryan Sloane into the bullpen this season. What do you see as the potential downsides for Anderson and Sloane's long term development if they were added to the bullpen. 00:21:19 Speaker 2: I almost feel like we just talked about this. 00:21:21 Speaker 3: But downside is well, especially for kid, he wouldn't be stretched out enough. But again, if the priority is to keep Caid stretched out, then you should just leave him down in the minor leagues to keep making starts. Sloan, I don't know if there's much downside to it if he starts to hit his innings limit and you want to get him some big league experience thrown out of the bullpen and he tries to help the team make a playoff run, I don't think there's much harm to that. 00:21:48 Speaker 1: I also don't think Sloan has that much downside. He's also gonna hit his innings limit faster than Kate Anderson will because Caid had a head start by pitching in college. For Caid, the downside would come bringing him up in Jerry said September September first, there wouldn't be as much downside for Cad if he gets called up in the middle of September as opposed to the beginning of September. I would say it would make the difference of what potentially fifteen innings next year that he can't throw that they don't feel comfortable throwing him at. Say they want to get him to a certain innings mark this year so they can get him to perhaps hopefully in one hundred and eighty innings close to a full season next year, so they don't have to load manage him down the stretch of next year. So I'd say, yeah, that's the downside you would you would leave Kate Anderson at one hundred and sixty five innings next year instead of one hundred and eighty innings. Otherwise, I see no downside. You face big league hitters, you get well the entrance isn't the same. You still get the practice of facing the best of the best and how to attack them. 00:22:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that. 00:23:00 Speaker 1: Are there any historical comps alex ads for the Mariners or any other teams with this type of development. 00:23:07 Speaker 2: David Price, if you want to use the Kate Anderson. 00:23:10 Speaker 1: Comp Yeah, that's one. He closed in their playoff run in eight. Right. Who's their closer for the World Series team? We've talked about Dustin may A Ton with that. Yeah, that happened. I mean, go back to last year, Doug Emerson Hancock was a reliever, right, Yeah, it's turned out. He's turned out okay this year? What else? 00:23:32 Speaker 3: There have been other big names that have gotten brought up to the team late in the year like that, to just try to get your best arms on the roster for a playoff run. 00:23:40 Speaker 2: So Price is. 00:23:41 Speaker 3: Always the one that sticks out to me. I mean there was the Brandon Finnegan one with the Royals back in twenty fourteen, but that one was so wild because he was pitching in the College World Series three months before the World Series, so it was different. It was so fast. David Price is probably the good one. 00:24:00 Speaker 1: Guys can bounce between relieving and starting, Like if you're good, you'll figure it out. And I think Caid's really, really, really good and I think he could figure it out. Here's like an example, maybe not perfect, but when Kevin Gosman was really struggling in This Is twenty nineteen, like he got cut I think from the Braves, and then after being a starter, the Reds picked him up and made him a reliever for the final I don't know, have twenty two innings of the season for him, and then he went back to starting no problem after the COVID season. Maybe it's that's not like a perfect comparison, but that's just to show that, like the best guys can bounce between. You don't do it too much, but they can do it. It's possible. And well, while and I have said we understand the want to stretch Kate Anderson out, it probably is more impactful to the team, especially if the bullpen struggles in August, to have another reliever up or attempt to have another reliever up to work out that situation instead of an extra starter and a same bullpen that is struggling. 00:25:11 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. 00:25:13 Speaker 1: Next question comes from Christian on Patreon Christian's question is who is more deserving of playing shortstop in the postseason? JP Crawford or Colt Emerson. 00:25:25 Speaker 3: Look, as I know, Colts really struggled with the bat at points this year. Hands down, it's Colt Emerson for me. You can't have JP Crawford's unreliable shortstop defense out there in the postseason, potentially costing you runs with Aaron throws and not getting to baseballs. Colt's got to be the shortstop. And I understand the batsmen up and down. This was part of the risk of bringing him up as early as they did. There was the question of was this too early? Is it batfully developed? He was striking out a decent bit in Tacoma. He wasn't putting up crazy offen numbers with the Rainiers at that point. So there is a learning curve now with this by bringing them up. But he has got to be your short stop because he just provides you so much more on defense. 00:26:12 Speaker 1: It's gonna be glove only essentially, right. You'll hope he'll come through with something, But I mean, as of now, it's still been a massive struggle for Colt. You're talking twenty one points of ops plus between the two batters. JP's been below average at a ninety six. Colt currently sits at a seventy five. So what do you value? Ask yourself this as you're listening to this, you'd to value the defense more? Or do you value twenty one points of ops plus. I'm in the same boat as Lyle. I think the defense in this case, given that they're both below average, is more valuable pretty clearly. 00:26:50 Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed. 00:26:51 Speaker 1: I don't know what JP Crawford's postseason roll is right now. With Brendan Donovan back. 00:26:56 Speaker 3: Maybe he's the odd man out. I was like Cole Young last year, So. 00:27:01 Speaker 1: He just rides the bench or he's off the roster. 00:27:05 Speaker 3: Well, he'd probably he'd probably ride the bench because maybe you need him for a late of bat But yeah, I mean, it's it's unclear what his role would be. He's not done a ton at the plate, he's been injured, he's not playing quality defense. It's just, you know, it's another left handed bat. It's a little bit of an odfit. 00:27:27 Speaker 1: I'd say it's better to have him on the bench than some of the Mariners' other options because the Mariner's bench, as we've talked about, has been terrible this year. Yeah, I don't see him starting right now unless someone gets hurt or Brendan Donovan just continues to play even worse defense at third and doesn't hit. It's more like he did on his rehab assignment. 00:27:46 Speaker 3: It would probably be JP as the bench infield bat. That's probably right right. 00:27:52 Speaker 1: Next question comes from Alex on Patreon, Different Alex This. Alex's question is September callups? Who do you guys think will come up? 00:28:03 Speaker 2: And that's a good one. Well, are we including Caden Sloan in this? 00:28:09 Speaker 1: Only one can come up? I sed to send someone down right, which they could? I mean, I'm not married to Michael Rucker being in this bullpen in September when you could have Ryan Sloan. 00:28:21 Speaker 3: Yeah, So if you're gonna say both of them, they'd probably be the pitchers. And it feels like it's trending that way. Otherwise, I mean offensively, I mean, well, again, what the factor into this all is like, is Michael Royal already up by this point? 00:28:41 Speaker 1: If he's not, then he'd be one of them. 00:28:43 Speaker 3: Right, So it'd be him, or otherwise you just bring up some utility guy. I mean, either you bring Mastro back up or Ryan Bliss comes up to play some infield, it'd be somebody like that. 00:28:54 Speaker 2: But if a Royo is not up yet, it's a Royal. 00:28:58 Speaker 1: If a Royo is already up, I mean probably Ryan Bliss, right. 00:29:03 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think yeah. 00:29:07 Speaker 1: Or we didn't either talk about the Michael Royo deek this weekend where he showed up a team Obi park for an MRI. Yeah, and people are like, oh, wait, Michael Royal's at the park. 00:29:18 Speaker 3: And then oh, and then it's oh no, he's actually being scanned for an injury. 00:29:22 Speaker 2: And then he ended up being fine. 00:29:24 Speaker 1: And then he was back in the Ta Cooma that same day. 00:29:27 Speaker 2: Right. 00:29:28 Speaker 3: But I don't if it's not Cater Sloan from the pitching side, because just as a reminder to everybody, you can only call up one hitter in one pitcher. That's all you get at this point, and you can't stack it. It has to be a position player and a pitcher. Otherwise, if it's not Cater Sloane, I don't think it's going to be somebody that blows you away. It's just gonna be some one of the guys that's already been up this year. If it's you know, Nick Dabula or maybe Jonathan Diaz gets his chance somebody like that. 00:29:55 Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll see. 00:29:58 Speaker 2: Uh. 00:29:59 Speaker 1: Jentine has a trade deadline grade for us. His grade is a D. And the reasoning is this. The only reason it's a D and not an F is because the Mariners saved money training away Castio. But of course that helps releasing two players in owing money and netting out. I'm sorry, but it doesn't matter what they've done with the farm system. Ultimate measure is the Pennant and maybe these guys just hit their ceiling aka no legit World Series experience or building that caliber of roster. What are your guys' thoughts on that? 00:30:35 Speaker 3: I mean, look, we've sat here and said it was a really really underwhelming trade deadline. I don't know if I quite say D just given what the market was and there wasn't a ton out there, but I would certainly be in the C T C minus range. Like I agree that it should absolutely just be about winning the Pennant this year and it should be about going for it, and they didn't go for it enough, so shret like, I won't go quite as low as a D, but I'm in that CE to C range. 00:31:01 Speaker 1: So I'm basing it off of his philosophy there. That means the Mariners should have gone out and traded for Mason Miller. 00:31:10 Speaker 2: Well maybe that wasn't possible. 00:31:13 Speaker 1: Unless you gave up Kate Anderson. 00:31:15 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and that you're not gonna do well. 00:31:18 Speaker 1: I mean, but that's along the philosophy of what's the point of a good farm system if you don't have a World Series? 00:31:24 Speaker 2: So there's a difference between. 00:31:27 Speaker 3: Have like prospect hoarding and not trading the guys you truly believe. 00:31:32 Speaker 2: Or future cornerstones of your team. 00:31:33 Speaker 3: And I think the Mariners, for every good reason fully believe Kate Anderson and Ryan Sloan are more than just quote unquote prospects. 00:31:41 Speaker 2: They are future cornerstones. So I understand not trading them. 00:31:46 Speaker 3: Now to Jatine's point, another very odd quote out of Jerry's presser on Tuesday was he was talking about how, you know, obviously how they're built is on their farm system and on their development, and it would have taken something seismic to move prospects he was talking about, and then he actually started naming names, like he started to mention lads, and he started to mention Arroyo, is like it would take something seismic to move those guys. 00:32:13 Speaker 2: That's where you lose me. 00:32:14 Speaker 3: Is that's where you get into the prospect hugging category where if you're not at least you know, seriously entertaining offers on impact guys in exchange for those guys, then yeah, like it like that's. 00:32:30 Speaker 2: That's where you lose me. 00:32:31 Speaker 3: Like like and maybe the impact guys weren't out there on this market, which is why the prospects didn't move. But to say like, oh, like it would take something seismic to move those guys, like they're like, you know, they're like fifty to one hundred level top one hundred prospects. 00:32:47 Speaker 1: I think that's Jerry just gassing up his prospects. I feel like the Mariners would have no problem trading those guys. 00:32:55 Speaker 2: Maybe those guys are. 00:32:56 Speaker 1: Really good prospects and they mash and way, are they like untouchable once in a generation prospect? Yeah, I mean he just can't move like this example, right, Like the Mariners will not have a pitching prospect as like polished and ready as Kate Anderson fall into their lap maybe in the next twenty five years. That's why that one is like special and unheard of, but like a lads in a royal, like you can mash in the minor leagues. 00:33:28 Speaker 3: Right, Like, Jerry has to know because he's around it and in it more than anybody else every day, Like he's got to know Laz is currently hitting a buck eighty four with a six seventeen ops against left handed pitching for the year, right Like when he's gassing up his prospects internally, he has to know these guys are not the Kate Anderson level prospects of hitters that he's almost talking them up to be like he is. He is not Kevin McGonagall as a hitter, Laz. I mean, he has more power than that, but he's not that type of well rounded hitter. You know, he's massively struggled against south Pause and Jerry knows that, So that would be a little weird to be like, oh, it takes something seismic to move a guy who, again, if it all goes perfect, could be a really, really fun player, But if it doesn't go to the one hundredth percentile outcome, he's going to be like a Luke Rayley, who probably plays even slightly worse defense and has more raw power. 00:34:26 Speaker 2: But we'll see if it translates. 00:34:28 Speaker 1: Right. That's yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. I did not see that quote. Yeah, I don't think those guys are untouchable. Jerry's had no problem trading prospects of that stature before, and it's worked for him. 00:34:42 Speaker 3: He knows that Noelvie, Edwin Arroyo type guys like that. 00:34:47 Speaker 1: Yeah, the difference is those types of players the Mariners got back, Brendan Donovan and Luis Castill weren't available in this market. That's why they didn't get moved, right. I think if who's the guy out there that you'd really want the Mariners to trade for, Let's say, like, let's say Wilson Contreras was available for the Mariners and it costed you Las Royal or both. I think Jerry would have traded Las in Royal for him. 00:35:13 Speaker 3: Could be if you're willing to deal with the potential headache of Wilson Contrero's personality. 00:35:20 Speaker 1: Assuming they'd done their homework and we're okay with it. 00:35:23 Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, that's fair. 00:35:24 Speaker 1: I think they would have done that. Let us tell you guys about Cozy Earth. Cozy Earth's mission is to make home the best part of your life. They sent us their bamboo sheet set. They're Everywhere Pant and every Day Polo for us to try, and we were really impressed. The bamboo sheet set lives up to the hype. It's Cozy Earth's mission to make the softest sheets in the world, and I think they've gotten pretty darn close. And I really like the pant and Polo as well. For what I look for in everyday clothes, I'm looking for something comfortable but a little stylish as well, and I think both of these check those boxes. Just so you know, Cozy Earth has a lifetime warranty on their clothes, assle free return process and a one hundred night's sleep trial on their sheets. Summer should feel easy for everyone in the house. Cozy Earth's Bamboo sheet set, Everywhere Pant and every Day Polo are meant to keep you cool, comfortable, and actually relaxed all summer long. Head to cozyearth dot com and use our code Marine for an exclusive twenty percent off. That's code Marine m Aarne for an exclusive twenty percent off. And if you see a post purchase survey mention that you heard about Cozy Earth right here. 00:36:30 Speaker 2: All right. 00:36:31 Speaker 1: Next question comes from Alex on Patreon. Alex's question is beyond Taylor Ward, did Jerry essentially bet on internal improvements at this deadline? 00:36:43 Speaker 3: Yes, because again, if cal Julio and Naylor don't hit, nothing about this season really matters. Doesn't matter if you trade it for Taylor Ward doesn't matter. If you go and get Luke Weaver, doesn't matter if you had also tried to get one additional bat at the deadline. 00:36:58 Speaker 2: If cal Julio and Naylor don't hit, like, they're not going to the playoffs. 00:37:02 Speaker 3: If they don't turn this thing around in the final two months, they're not going anywhere. Did I hear Josh Naylor's now at forty one games without a home run. 00:37:11 Speaker 1: We are eight days away as of recording from two months without a homer I Une twelve. 00:37:16 Speaker 2: That's absurd, absurd. 00:37:20 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't even know what to say at this point. Like he's got to be hurt. 00:37:26 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, he's been dealing with a risk thing, but he doesn't really talk about injuries much apparently, like he won't talk about it. 00:37:33 Speaker 1: I mean, he's managed to be productive in other ways. He has a what twenty four game on base streak, so he's like he's getting on, he's just not doing any damage to the baseball. To answer Alex's question, that's exactly it. And that's like part of the reason the Maritors approached the deadline the way the way they did is because that's what was available in the market. But it's also because I just don't think this Mariners team is giving them a reason into like mortgage of their future to go for it. Yeah, like let's think of like all these teams at this the deadline for the Mariners since twenty twenty two, and Jerry sits there and is looking at these teams, It's like, Okay, this is a reason I believe in the team in twenty twenty two. What do you think was the reason the Mariners believed in the team to trade for Luis Castillo? 00:38:26 Speaker 2: Why did they believe in trading for him? 00:38:27 Speaker 1: You're saying, yeah, why did they believe in the team enough to go justify trading for him? 00:38:33 Speaker 3: Well, they were winning at that point, Like they had ripped off fourteen in a row before the All Star break, that's a couple of weeks before the deadline. 00:38:39 Speaker 1: They proved that they were serious. I one hundred percent agree. I would also add on top of that, they had eventual Rookie of the Year winner Julio Rodriguez breaking out right in front of everyone's eyes. And they had this guy who got sent down in May and got called back up as an emergency and the head e merged. His name was cal You might have heard of him. He's pretty good. And the Mariners had pieces to work around. They also had a good bench. They were fast, they were athletic. They just didn't have enough starting pitching and they just so happened to have prospects. 00:39:12 Speaker 2: Twenty twenty two was their best bench in this. 00:39:15 Speaker 3: Regime with Dylan Moore, Sam Haggerty and the way they played that year, Like that group was a really really strong bench. But yes, Julio's emergence, Col's emergence, Gino had like a four win season that year. You had ty Franz as an All Star in the first half. I know he fell off in the second half, but you know he was probably playing hurt. 00:39:36 Speaker 2: But yeah, that team had really proven it. 00:39:38 Speaker 1: That's why twenty twenty three I think was similar vibes. The team was just mid right they approached the deadline, they did not show any signs. So therefore the team besides that bullpen, Jerry didn't really invest much into that roster at the trade deadline, and then right after that the team rips off unbelievab August and goes on that run. Yeah, twenty twenty four. I think Jerry was trying to save his job. That's why he traded for Randy. Like it was the right move because it was like a clear upgrade and the team was like dead in the water. But they like they knew that's that's what it was, right. 00:40:20 Speaker 3: Yeah, but they probably didn't do enough in addition to that, Well, there wasn't a ton out there like there I remember that deadline. I don't think there were many teams that traded for better bats. 00:40:31 Speaker 2: Than the Mariners. 00:40:32 Speaker 3: Because they got Randy and they got Justin Turner, it just still wasn't enough. 00:40:36 Speaker 1: M Like, they made all the right moves at that deadline, but that team just wasn't good enough, right, They weren't. They weren't in the headspace to play very well. Whether it was under performance or whether they didn't like Scott Service, and they just weren't playing well cohesion as a team, but that team just did not work out at the deadline. They almost did that out of desperation. And then last year it's because they had a sixty home run catcher and it was a perfect storm of needs. The fact you had two rental players at the positions you needed exactly line up. 00:41:08 Speaker 2: And the American League was still really bad last year. 00:41:11 Speaker 1: Right, So you could find a reason in all of those years why the Mariners did what they did this year. Can't find a reason to buy confidently, not based on who's available or how your team's performed. 00:41:25 Speaker 2: Right. 00:41:26 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I hope that answers your question, Alex, I'm with you. Next question comes from Cheryl on Patreon. Cheryl's question is George Kirby was quoted saying I love this place. I want to stay here. I want to show them I'm worthy of being a Mariner. Do you think this indicates he would sign an extension if one was offered. 00:41:49 Speaker 3: No, not unless it's a massive overpay. Look, he gave the right pr answer to that question, and I'm sure George Kirby does like pitching in Seattle and furthest organization. That doesn't mean he's not gonna walk in free agency. And I think all of the general belief is that he is still planning to test free agency. So again, it's a nice quote and he said the right things, and I'm sure he does like it, but I don't see that as a sign of, oh, I'm planning to just drop everything insign an extension. 00:42:25 Speaker 1: There's a number he would say, yes, sat, but I doubt that's a number of the Mariners would offer him because George wants top of the line starting pitcher money and the Mariners know who he is as a starting pitcher. They just shopped him at this deadline. Is that give you much confidence they wanted they're confident they're going to keep him around, that either he's gonna stay or they'd want to keep him. There's like a chance that the Mariners just don't deem George Kirby worth it to spend money on. I mean, he's always good, but not good enough. 00:42:59 Speaker 3: Isn't this exactly what we've talked about, that he just hasn't made the same jump as a bunch of the other pitchers. I think it is, and I think the Mariners might view it the same way. Where it's look, he throws a lot of strikes, and he has his good starts and he has a decently high floor, but he just doesn't have an outpitch, and he just has too many starts where he gets hit around too hard, and he has too many you know, he has too many times where there's all these things under the hood that say it's gonna improve, and then it doesn't actually improve on the field. Again, high floor, good pitcher, but maybe not extension worthy pitcher. 00:43:38 Speaker 1: I agree with all of that. So yeah, Cameron on Patreon asks which starter do you guys think would be is more likely to be traded in the off season. George Kirby or Emerson Hancock. 00:43:54 Speaker 3: I know he also said in the question, you could throw Logan Gilbert into this, which with one year left on Logan Gilbert's deal. 00:44:00 Speaker 2: Again, that is gonna be really. 00:44:01 Speaker 3: Interesting this offseason and in an off season where you just don't have a lot of time because there's a lockout coming. But of those three, I'll still say Kirby because I think it gets you the best return with two years to go rather than one, or with just one proven year under the belt like Emerson Hancock. 00:44:21 Speaker 1: I think if Emerson Hancock finishes the year strong, it's gonna be him. I don't think you would get enough of a return for Logan Gilbert because he's got one year? Do you like, are the Mariners thinking they might get like the perfect trade package back for George Kirby? Like the perfect trade package will not exist this offseason because there's just not enough time to formulate a perfect trade package, which leaves you with Emerson Hancock, who was also floated out there on the block at this deadline. And I as much as the Mariners like Emerson, they probably have the least amount of attachment to him, so therefore they would feel the most comfortable trading him away. 00:45:07 Speaker 3: So if you trade Emerson and eventually Cad or sorry, if you trade Emerson and eventually Logan and Gilt and Kirby both leave as free agents, then you're just saying, Okay, still down the road, the rotation can still be Wu Miller, Cad Sloan and somebody else, hopefully our guy Logan Evans. 00:45:24 Speaker 1: Sure, the question they'll have to answer is do we want more control or better pitchers this offseason? Because there are two different routes to go. If you want to just trade the guys with the least amount of control, you'll trade Logan Gilbert this offseason, get a return back of either a major league player or some prospects, and you'll roll with Emerson Hancock. Unfortunately, as much as I love Emerson, he's not as good as Logan Gilbert is. So the other side of that is you trade Emerson Hancock and you roll the dice with Logan Gilbert in his last season before free agency. 00:45:56 Speaker 2: Right, that's it. Yeah, Yeah, it's fair. 00:46:00 Speaker 3: And I'm sure they I'm sure they'll get calls on all these starters this offseason they start. They seem to get calls on these guys every off. 00:46:09 Speaker 2: Season, but. 00:46:12 Speaker 3: It is about which route they'd rather go control versus highest flooring upside as a pitcher. 00:46:18 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you, all right. Last one comes from Xander on Patreon. Xander's question is there's been a lot of DFAs, a lot of players designated for assignment post headline that couldn't be traded. Are any of these guys useful to the Mariners? 00:46:35 Speaker 3: I mean, he mentions Jorges Solaire. I get the intrigue because he's a right handed bat who just got released and has power. But there's a reason he also just got released. He has not hit this year. I mean, he's got an eighty nine WRC or an eighty nine OPS plus he's barely hitting above two hundred. Is war for the year's negative. I mean the Mariners may shop around in that market if there's, like if there's DFA candidates that they really deemed to be a fit on their team, especially if there's some reliever DFA candidates. But I don't know about any specifically you could point out and say, yes, they have got to go get this guy at this moment, because you don't know if a certain team's gonna DFA guy or not. And if they do DFAM, there's probably a reason. 00:47:19 Speaker 1: The two I dug up. One's Chris Martin, who's really good for the Rangers last year. This year has just been awful. I'm wondering if there's anything salvageable from him, who showed even at old age last year, he could be incredibly productive. The other one is Craig Kimberl, and you never know, he's bounced around to a ton of teams. Just add the Mariners to his career chain and you could get maybe two months out of him. 00:47:45 Speaker 3: Maybe camer would be fun more just because of who he once used to be. But again, when those are the guys you're digging up, I don't think that's changing all that much about your roster. So they may look when certain guys get DFA. I mean, I'm sure they're always looking when guys get DF eight and saying, is this a guy worthy of bringing into our organization? But I don't think that's gonna change much. 00:48:10 Speaker 1: For every Max month. See, there's unfortunately, many, many, many many more Abraham Torros. 00:48:19 Speaker 3: Yes there are, but hey, he wasn't even a DFA guy. The Mariner straight up traded for him, and you should have been, well, you loved him. I can't believe the Mariners never dfade him. 00:48:29 Speaker 1: I can't believe it. 00:48:32 Speaker 2: It would have given you so much satisfaction. 00:48:34 Speaker 3: God, could you imagine if we were doing this pod when Abe was actually a Mariner. 00:48:39 Speaker 1: I don't think I would have been as calm as I usually am on these. He was so bad, he was so bad. The team was looking me in the eye and saying, the guy who can't hit, the one guy on this roster who truly truly cannot hit is our starting DH today twenty two times could not hit. 00:49:01 Speaker 2: God, I wish we've been doing this pod during the ABE era, I really. 00:49:05 Speaker 1: Do could could not hit. It's like it's like the Mariners last year starting Dylan Moore at DH, like he literally can't even do the job of the position. 00:49:15 Speaker 3: God, and you used to send me text after text after text. I mean there would be like incoherent text half the time where it's like are we even having a conversation or are you just like are you just. 00:49:25 Speaker 2: Like saying things? 00:49:28 Speaker 1: Because the Mariners started abe Toro at He's not playing this year, by the way, man started aid Toro at DH twenty two times in twenty twenty two just to produce a five hundred ops. 00:49:43 Speaker 2: Wow, hey that's pretty good. It's not four hundred. 00:49:48 Speaker 1: It is not four hundred. No, no, it's not four hundred. You're very right. 00:49:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was very right. Yeah he was really bad. 00:49:57 Speaker 3: We'll see if the Mariner's looking the DFA range at all DFA bucket. But again, I don't know if it's really going to be anybody in the final one to two months that fixes a whole ton, So we'll see. 00:50:08 Speaker 1: Do you ever think back to that Abe Toro Jesse Winker Culton Wong trade where it's like, could you have a worse combination of players getting traded. Well you both sides. 00:50:18 Speaker 3: Well, you should still be thrilled again you got Abe out of the organization. 00:50:24 Speaker 1: It's like, which one do I want more? The player who I deemed the worst player I've ever seen in my life, a guy who no one liked and was terrible as a Mariner, or the guy who got dfaied less than four months into the season after getting acquired. 00:50:40 Speaker 3: My vote on that is still culton loong because the trade was sound at the time. He was supposed to be productive for you. History showed that he should be productive for you, and he was also supposed to be a really nice dude. Again, he wasn't good. He was he was a disaster here, but he was a nice dude. It wasn't your deemed worst player ever or Jesse Winker, who's just an absolute case. 00:51:01 Speaker 1: Now that we're on this topic, do you ever think back to twenty twenty four? Do you remember when we were like this close to the Mariner's cutting Jorge Polanco? 00:51:11 Speaker 2: Do you remember that? Were they that close? 00:51:13 Speaker 1: I think so? 00:51:14 Speaker 2: Really? Yeah, I don't think he was ever gonna get cut. 00:51:18 Speaker 1: Well, there was a remember that, remember the Padre series he heated up. 00:51:24 Speaker 2: I just don't even remember rumblings that he was gonna get cut. 00:51:28 Speaker 1: I remember that really, Yeah, huh, I mean he was because this was the last year of his deal and things weren't working out. 00:51:37 Speaker 2: Oh right, you. 00:51:40 Speaker 1: Had to change something. It was like it was. I think if he had had another like bad couple of games, he might have gotten cut. But I think he went on a like a decent stretch sometime in August and saved himself. 00:51:54 Speaker 3: Well, thank goodness for that, because he probably doesn't resign here last year if the Mariners cut him. 00:51:58 Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying, like the full circle of like Jorge Plonko doesn't have these amazing postseason moments for the Mariners. If he goes like overs Next eight late in twenty twenty four and gets DFAD instead, Yeah. 00:52:11 Speaker 2: That would have been crazy. Wow. I hadn't thought about that. But man, good memory. 00:52:18 Speaker 1: Xander wants to talk about DFAs. How will we talk about non DFAs too? 00:52:23 Speaker 2: Right? 00:52:24 Speaker 3: Good set of mailbag questions again. I know we did it a day or an episode early this week. I think we're gonna do some type of guest episode on Friday. We're gonna try at least we'll keep you posted, but we did it a day early. You guys still brought up with the questions, and if you want to make sure your questions are answered, go sign up for our Patreon and leave us questions every single week. With that, that'll just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Layer Podcast. 00:52:48 Speaker 2: You guys know the drill. 00:52:49 Speaker 3: If you want to listen to the full form podcast, you can do so wherever you get your audio pods. Make sure to go rate and review five stars and download these episodes when you're listening to the podcast, whether it's Apple or Spotify, by wherever you listen. If you're on YouTube, just take a second and go hit that subscribe button if you're watching. You can also find us at our website marine layerpod dot com. Episodes are there, Patreons there, podcast merch is all there again. 00:53:13 Speaker 2: That's over at marine. 00:53:13 Speaker 3: Layerpod dot com and find us on ours on all our social media pages. We're posting content every single day everywhere at Marine Layer Pod. 00:53:22 Speaker 2: That's TJ. I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon.