Episode 442: Reacting To The Mariners Game One Loss In NY + Why Did They Not Make Any Moves On The Off Day?

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Well to episode number four forty two of the Marine Layer Podcast, live from the patio of Queen Anne beer Hall. The Mariners road trip is underway in a predictable fashion. 00:00:10 Speaker 2: A reminder to you guys before we start this podcast. You're right, make sure you go download these episodes and go hit subscribe. If you're watching on YouTube, you can also go find us at our website marine layerpod dot com, where you can find episodes, and our Patreon and our podcast merch it's all there, and check us all across social media. We're everywhere. We're posting content every day at Marine Layer Pod. Let's get it rolling. 00:00:45 Speaker 1: And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball podcast network, recording here on Tuesday evening, August eleventh. We haven't done too many podcasts outside, but I guess we gotta do something to get away from just the stagnancy of seeing the Mariners all around us losing. 00:01:02 Speaker 3: There's a TV out here, What do you mean, the stagnan. 00:01:04 Speaker 4: Well, they don't have to know that. 00:01:05 Speaker 3: Well, now they know there's a TV sitting out here on the patio. 00:01:09 Speaker 1: I think we watched trying to make a joke of us running away from the experience of what we undertook today and watching this baseball team. 00:01:16 Speaker 2: Did you think we were gonna escape this? I mean, you knew this is how the road trip was gonna start. There was a little part of me that actually thought the Mariners might win this game one nothing. Randy hits the home run in the sixth inning, and I say to myself, that's gonna be one of those games where, look, they're still not scoring, the offense still looks stagnant, but they just win one nothing. Bullpen holds it down and this is one of the few wins they steal on this road trip. 00:01:39 Speaker 1: Well, no, then then Michael Rucker happened. It's just like the same story. There's just like, there's not that much new to talk about. We've just reached the point of the season where the losses are all starting to look the exact same. As soon as Michael Rucker gets that opportunity in the seventh inning, you kind of had a feeling, Yeah, and there's a guy in second base and then there's runners on second and third, like, oh yeah, yeah, well, we know how this one's gonna go. We know what we're gonna talk about so that's how we've arrived a reret and the Mariners don't win at Yankee Stadium. 00:02:08 Speaker 3: When was the last time they won a series in the Bronx. 00:02:10 Speaker 4: Well, they won one in twenty twenty two, but besides that, I think it was like oh four. Yeah, it's been a long time. 00:02:16 Speaker 2: Been a long time since they won there, And it's been a long time since they won at Fenway, which they will also be at in the month of August. 00:02:22 Speaker 4: This is tough. 00:02:23 Speaker 1: I was talking with one of our listeners, Desmond, who came early, and we were mapping out like a best case and worst case scenario. Well actually mostly best case scenario. We're like, all right, so there's like the rest of the season is sectioned off into essentially two portions. You have the tough portion and you have the easy portion. The tough portion takes us through the end of the Blue Jays series, I believe, right, Desmond, Yeah, yeah, blue Jays series. That's twenty one games from including this one, which the Mariner's already off to an oh one start. So that means the Mariners would need to go seven and or yeah, they need to go seven and thirteen through that. 00:02:58 Speaker 4: That puts them U thirteen. 00:03:00 Speaker 1: That's not a good Oh sorry, sorry sorry third uh fourteen and six? Okay backwards, you gotta flip that around fourteen and six through that tough stretch, and then after that the Mariners would need to go fifteen and seven against the easy part of their schedule. You know what that math equates to. It essentially means you win every series two out of three from here on out. 00:03:19 Speaker 2: I mean, that's essentially what a one hundred and five win pace the rest of the season. 00:03:23 Speaker 1: Right, And that puts you at eighty five wins at the end of the season, which in this American league might put you in the playoffs. The issue is that that trend is already off on the wrong foot. 00:03:34 Speaker 2: It's already off on the wrong foot. And I know we are where we are now, and you can't change the pass. But we were never supposed to be talking about eighty five wins with this tea. We were supposed to be talking about at least ten more than that. We were supposed to be talking about ninety five plus. Now we're talking about having to go what twenty nine and thirteen the rest of the way just to hit eighty five wins and. 00:03:52 Speaker 1: Another thing that came up to is the Mariner's lack of luck as a franchise, which is true. We've talked about it on this podcast before. Have never made the playoffs with less than ninety ninety wins I believe. Meanwhile, lots of other teams have made the playoffs with anywhere from eighty five to ninety wins. There have been teams that have won the World Series with eighty three wins or made a World Series with eighty three wins. The Mariners aren't a team that has gotten that kind of luck in the past. 00:04:19 Speaker 2: Did they win ninety and ninety five? I don't think they did because of one hundred and forty four games. 00:04:23 Speaker 1: They might have had ninety one pace, but the season was what one hundred and forty something games? Yeah, okay, so they've they missed out on that opportunity because they've had twenty less games, especially right. 00:04:34 Speaker 4: So that's where we're at. 00:04:35 Speaker 1: I was trying to Desmond and I were trying to cook up some optimism, but unfortunately the team does not give us any reason. 00:04:42 Speaker 4: I mean, I to continue. 00:04:43 Speaker 2: I guess you never know what could happen in a road trip. I don't have high hopes, but I guess they could. You know, crazier things have happened where they go take two to three in Houston and they win the next two here in New York, especially without Judge or without Stanton. 00:04:56 Speaker 3: And I mean, I don't have much hope for the Milwaukee series with miss to Go. 00:05:00 Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean this is off to the start people thought this road trip would get off to Yeah, all. 00:05:06 Speaker 1: Right, before we get to the rest of this, I have sort of a philosophical outtake of this podcast, similar to what we talked about for Monday's episode, but we can change it up at least a little bit, at least the way we approach how we're talking about the Mariners. But first you notice all the Corona stuff around us. These things are only possible because they're friends at Corona. And want to remind you if you're at t Mobile Park for any of the remaining month and a half of the season, there's a number of ways you can find Corona throughout the ballpark. You have the newly remodeled Corona Beach Bar out in left field. Every time Low and I walk towards the pen, you always walk towards it. It's like, right above the way bullpen on the main concourse if you need sort of directions on how to get there. It has a big Corona sign on it and it only has I think mostly only Corona products in it, so that would be the dead giveaway. So while you're in there you can check out the full Corona family of brands. You have Corona Premiere, which is the lighter than light option, the Corona Sunbrew option, which is the easy drinking flavored one. This is also Corona non Alcoholic, which is the only true non alcoholic Corona drink, and then Corona Extra, the option that takes everyone back to a beach or to the ballpark, which everyone here watching us today is drinking a Corona Extra. So thank you guys all for coming out and thank you for drinking Corona. Okay, the way I wanted to think about this podcast is not what has happened, because we've pretty much articulated what has happened for the last two months of this team crumbling and Dan Wilson saying nothing to the media and the Mariners having an average trade deadline, if not arguably below average. So that's all the what. Now we need to talk about the why why are these things happening? Why are the Mariners at where they're at right now? And what sparked this for me is what did I say on Monday's podcast? I said, the next forty eight hours between the end of Sunday's game here in Seattle and today's game as we're recording here on Tuesday and New York happened. That will tell us a lot about how the Mariners view the rest of the season. If they make a coaching move, if they make a front office move, if they make a player personnel move, that will tell us what they think about that Mariners make a move. 00:07:17 Speaker 3: No, no, it's all status quo. 00:07:19 Speaker 1: No no, uh so nothing really changed between now and then. So I'm wondering why. 00:07:26 Speaker 3: I mean, you texted me this earlier. 00:07:28 Speaker 2: Does it not feel like they're operating in a way that just says everybody has job security through the rest of the season. 00:07:34 Speaker 1: It's kind of what it feels like, and if you go through it section by section, it's starting to make sense. Let's start with the player one, because I think the player thing is always the easiest thing to change. Defang players calling guys up for the minor leagues who have clearly earned their spot in the big leagues. Let's start with guy number one, Like, why is Michael Arroyo not here right now? That was the easiest fit out of everyone I listed off on Monday. He made the most sense. You're struggling on offense. You scored one run I think on two or three total hits tonight. Whichever total it was, it was certainly not good enough. And that's the easiest as I get. However many hits I want to say it was three hits, three hits, I don't. I mean, it was not a lot, that's for sure. 00:08:17 Speaker 2: Ryan Weathers was at a point where he sat down what eleven in a row, and he was at twenty one innings without a. 00:08:21 Speaker 1: Run, three hits tonight one solo home run from Randy aros A. Right now, it just makes the most sense to bring michael 'royalper right now, because, like as I pointed out on Monday, what do you have to lose by promoting him? You're gonna play him all over the field. Maybe he's not good in the field, but you know he's up here to hit. So why is he not up here this year? 00:08:42 Speaker 2: I mean, are the Mariners trying to protect their rights at a PPI. 00:08:45 Speaker 4: Pick, which now is possible. 00:08:47 Speaker 2: It's possible, but that would make more sense for Cad and Ryan Sloan's Michael Royal gonna go win Rookie of the Year next year. 00:08:54 Speaker 1: I mean there's like a one to five percent chance he does. Yeah, his bat really tates even. 00:09:02 Speaker 3: If that's true. 00:09:02 Speaker 2: And again, I would put the odds of Arroyo winning Rookie of the Year next year low. I'm not saying you can't have a good year, but it's not easy to win Rookie of the Year, especially when you already don't play good defense. I mean, that's gonna tank your value to some extent. So the Arroyo one, I really don't get because if you're trying to preserve that, not only is he unlikely to go win that award next year, but that also is exactly what was driving you crazy on Sunday's podcast where you said I don't want to hear a word about twenty twenty seven. And in your eyes and in my eyes, Arroyo could help the team right now. 00:09:34 Speaker 4: Mm hmmm. 00:09:34 Speaker 1: He's not here, and the window for how this matters I think last another four days. The peep I think August fifteenth is the date where if you call someone up, there are in physically not enough days in the season for them to burn through their rookie eligibility, which means if you call Michael Arroyo up, I believe on it's either on August fifteenth or after August fifteenth, then he cannot lose his rookie eligibility. Therefore, the Mariners are eligible for that draft pick next year. 00:10:04 Speaker 2: We should probably clarify for anybody listening who isn't totally familiar with what the PPI pick means. It stands for Prospect Promotion Incentive. We've talked about it before, but what it means is if you call up one of your big prospects or one of your rookies before the cutoff date in the middle of April, and then they go out and proceed to win Rookie of the Year, you get an extra first round pick. When Julio won Rookie of the Year in twenty twenty two, because they called him up on opening Day he won the award, and it was right after the lockout where that new rule gotten incentivized. It allowed the Mariners to also pick Johnny Farmelo in twenty twenty three. So Julio essentially landed the Mariners Johnny Farmelo. That's what that can do for a team. But if a Royo comes up before August fifteenth and he won Rookie the Year, then he couldn't win Rookie of the Year next year because he wouldn't have the eligibility. 00:10:54 Speaker 1: And you might say, hey, TJ, like, that's only five days from now. Can the Mariners just wait five days and promote him? Yes, they could. The problem is the Mariners play five games in that stretch. What if the Maritors go on a heater of a September and miss the playoffs by two games? 00:11:09 Speaker 4: Like, do you do you think the two games? 00:11:12 Speaker 1: That two games could have been made up if Michael Arroyo was on this roster for those five games leading up to Saturday. 00:11:19 Speaker 2: Am I gonna sit here and say Michael Arroyo is gonna put up two wins above replacement. 00:11:22 Speaker 3: In five games? No? But I get your point in saying that. What if he had a couple big hits. 00:11:27 Speaker 2: What if he had a couple extra runs driven in and it ultimately led to the Mariners winning two extra ball games? 00:11:32 Speaker 3: Yeah? 00:11:33 Speaker 2: Yes, Like it's supposed to be about twenty twenty six. Yeah, by waiting five more days to call Royal up if that's what they decide to do, or do it with Caid whoever, you're thinking about twenty twenty seven. This is not about twenty twenty six, because if you go one and four in these five games and then call those guys up, you're signaling this is about twenty twenty seven. And again for a team that had expectations as high as any Mariners team. Ever, this is not supposed to be about twenty twenty seven all of a sudden in the middle of August. 00:12:02 Speaker 4: Unfortunately for the Mariners too. 00:12:03 Speaker 1: I mean, it worked out perfectly today, where the two top prospects that made the most sense to call up right now would have instantly helped them in today's game. Arroyal would have helped the fact that the Mariners only had three hits and looked pretty lifeless against a lefty, as they always have this season. The Mariners also had Michael Rucker pitching the seventh inning with a one nothing lead today. If I pulled the audience right now and ask them, would you rather have Michael Rucker or Kate Anderson pitching? The seventh inning against the Yankees with two Lefty's schedule to come up against Michael Rucker. 00:12:35 Speaker 4: By the way, who would you rather take. 00:12:38 Speaker 3: Just off the statement alone? Of course it's Kate. 00:12:40 Speaker 2: Okay, And by the way, I'll scroll Twitter here as we're recording. We'll see if we get an update on this while we're sitting here and tape in the podcast. But I really hope Dan actually decides to give an explanation to that one tonight, because it certainly seemed like Gabe Spire wasn't available. And guess what if you're Dan Wilson and you come out postgame and say, yeah, was unavailable tonight. Now I don't know why he just had an off day and two days off because of the suspension, You would think he's healthy. But if for whatever reason he's not available and he's dealing with something, say that because that saves your rear end and it saves face for the organization too, to say, okay, this is why we didn't go to Spire here. 00:13:19 Speaker 3: He couldn't pitch tonight. 00:13:21 Speaker 2: But if you just say you're if Dan just says his classic yeah, you know, decisions are tough, and uh, we liked Rutger in that situation, even though you had multiple lefties coming up. Well, then that's gonna look ridiculous if he if he fails to actually clearly provide if Spire was available or not. 00:13:35 Speaker 3: Right now, I'm not saying anything. It hasn't been updated yet. 00:13:38 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's see. Oh yeah he was down because of back issues. 00:13:42 Speaker 2: Oh so they actually said it then yes, Well then good because again that would make sense. And now people can give the Mariners a little bit of grace to say, this is why Rutger was in that game. He didn't do his job, but at least we know why he was in. 00:13:54 Speaker 1: So in this scenario, you understand that even when Gab Spire was suspended he has back issues. You're like, oh, okay, season's on the line on this road trip. Season is seriously on the line right now. Kate Anderson is probably the odds on favorite to win Rookie of the Year next year. I would be I'd be floored if he's not the favorite next year. Maybe that's a sacrifice. Well, he's not gonna throw as many innings you'd think if presuming both are healthy. 00:14:21 Speaker 4: So that's really the conundrum right there. 00:14:23 Speaker 1: It's like, is Kate Anderson valuable to the Mariners for these five days, burns his status. Mayors don't get an extra first round pick, or would you rather give yourself a chance at a first round pick? 00:14:33 Speaker 3: Right? 00:14:34 Speaker 1: I can't one hundred percent say that's the reason those guys aren't up right now, But I can't really find another one why. 00:14:40 Speaker 2: Not other than if you want to take what Jerry said really seriously and say that he doesn't have enough innings yet and they want to continue to stretch him out and putting him in the bullpen just isn't going to do enough for his workload, I guess. 00:14:53 Speaker 3: And what they do need to be winning? 00:14:55 Speaker 4: Why does his workload need to be stretched out? 00:14:57 Speaker 2: Because they're thinking about twenty twenty seven? There you go, Yeah, they're thinking about twenty twenty seven. 00:15:01 Speaker 4: Yeah, there you go. 00:15:03 Speaker 3: Yeah. So there's your why. 00:15:04 Speaker 2: There's your why for why the top prospects haven't been promoted yet and you're rolling out this roster again and it led to one run on three hits, with the one run coming from your most consistent offensive player this season, and then nothing else. 00:15:17 Speaker 4: Okay, let's move on. 00:15:19 Speaker 1: I think we've touched on pretty much everyone from a player perspective. Like we've talked about Sloan and Laz a little bit, those ones aren't as much slam dunks to come up. 00:15:29 Speaker 2: I mean, if you're wondering why West and Wilson's still here and why he's still in the lineup, it's because JP Crawford's still on the IL. When JP comes back, I would assume the move. 00:15:37 Speaker 3: Is West and Wilson. I guess it could be Leo, but one of those two. 00:15:41 Speaker 4: Right, yeah, I guess so. I think we'll see with that. 00:15:44 Speaker 1: So Sloan and Laz aren't quite as as ready to come up right now as those other two I think are, and they don't fit as perfectly. But even so, man, I'm taking Ryan Sloan in that seventh inning over Michael Rutger. 00:15:56 Speaker 2: I mean, sure, in a nutshell, it's just again, he really needs the innings more than kid does that one. 00:16:02 Speaker 3: I can understand a little bit. 00:16:03 Speaker 4: More to sound like a broken clock. And why is that? 00:16:06 Speaker 3: I know, because you're thinking about twenty twenty seven. 00:16:08 Speaker 4: Here you go. 00:16:08 Speaker 2: I'm okay, thinking about twenty twenty seven for Ryan Sloan Kate in Arroyo. 00:16:13 Speaker 3: They should be getting pushed. 00:16:15 Speaker 1: It's just like, I'm if I see those two guys promoted on Sunday and the Mariners lose every game between now and Sunday, It's gonna be like. 00:16:22 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, what are you what are you prioritizing here? Yes, totally fair. 00:16:28 Speaker 4: Let's do this. 00:16:29 Speaker 1: From a coaching perspective, it would have been I think, while pr wise, would have been a little difficult for the Mariners to handle if they would have made a coaching decision after fiftieth anniversary weekend where you literally only wait for the ceremony to happen and then you let your coaching staff go. But on a more you know, on a more serious note, why, Like the next why is why would the Mariners not make a coaching decision between in the forty eight hours between now are between Sunday and today? 00:17:01 Speaker 2: Now, in terms of the why is this what I think? Or is this what the Mariners are thinking? I'd say what the Mariners are thinking? Okay, because I think we can hear. 00:17:08 Speaker 4: What you think too. 00:17:09 Speaker 1: Oh. 00:17:09 Speaker 2: I mean, I think we've been pretty clear on where we stand on that, and my answer is I have absolutely no idea. 00:17:13 Speaker 1: And I think it what Ryan Davis shed some light on this which we can touch on after. 00:17:17 Speaker 4: But yeah, right, that's right. 00:17:19 Speaker 2: Why the Mariners are prioritizing this and why they haven't made a move yet, it's because, as Jeff Passen said, is Alvin Davis kind of said in his speech that Dan Wilson played in the organization a long time and he was a rover and had a small role post career, and because of that, people hold the loyalty to him to leave him as the manager, which, by the way, is not a baseball reason to keep him as the manager. 00:17:45 Speaker 4: We've not heard a baseball reason. 00:17:47 Speaker 3: No. 00:17:47 Speaker 2: The two reasons we've heard are, well, players like him as a guy, and then while he played in the organization a long time. Those are the Mariner's reasons if you want your why for while he's why he's still the manager. 00:17:58 Speaker 3: That's why. Those are not baseball reasons. 00:18:03 Speaker 1: And according to uh Divish, it sounds like the relationship between manager and organization for them is important. Whether or not the fans care that much about that. I totally understand if most fans listening to this don't really care. To be honest, I don't know if I care really that much at all. It's not my problem. I don't think the two of us do. It's not our problem. Our Our goal is for the Mariners to win the most games possible, and hopefully everyone in this scenario understands that that is always the goal, to win the most games possible. But the insight Divish gave in an article that came out I believe today or yesterday. I think actually might have been yesterday. It was Sunday night, yeah, where he was talking about what Monday, Monday, why the Mariners had not moved on from Dan Wilson yet, and he said he didn't think they would do it. And the reason he gave is because they didn't like the way the Scott Service tenure ended, and that relationship between Scott Service and the Mariners organization is like completely severed. 00:19:03 Speaker 4: It's done. 00:19:04 Speaker 1: It's like no speaking terms, no contact, no nothing. And the Mariners, per his article, seemed to think if they were to fire Dan at this point, then a similar thing would happen, and they don't want that to happen with someone like Dan Wilson. 00:19:22 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, yeah, sure, I'm. 00:19:25 Speaker 4: Not saying everyone has to be happy about it, but that's why. 00:19:27 Speaker 3: Is that a baseball reason? 00:19:29 Speaker 4: No, it's not a baseball reason, That's exactly it. 00:19:31 Speaker 3: They at least fired Scott for baseball reason. 00:19:33 Speaker 2: So they say they thought that, you know, the clubhouse was getting tense and they had the bad road trip, and he I think he was on the last year of his contract, although that wasn't public, so there were more baseball reasons behind it. 00:19:46 Speaker 3: And everything you just described is not a baseball. 00:19:49 Speaker 4: And the difference between this team and that team. 00:19:52 Speaker 1: As Divis pointed out, is that the players on the twenty twenty four Mariners essentially knew at this point at not at this point the season, as the season was getting to its breaking point, that Scott's service was gonna be let go. They like they had a feeling that it was about time and that it was gonna happen. 00:20:10 Speaker 4: The vibes with the players are not the same this year. 00:20:13 Speaker 2: Well, no, they like him again, that's the other reason for why he's still here. They quote unquote like him, right, which is still not a baseball reason exactly. 00:20:24 Speaker 3: But I mean, we're gonna keep saying that. 00:20:26 Speaker 2: But they I think they like him because he's so hands off in the clubhouse that there's just I don't know, I'm like, we're not in there enough to know if there's true, hard, regimented structure or not. But it certainly doesn't feel that way from an outsider's perspective. And it kind of feels like it's so lax, Like the philosophy under this coaching staff is so lax that of. 00:20:48 Speaker 3: Course the players like it. Yeah. 00:20:50 Speaker 2: Like, by the way, like we were talking about this the other day, and while we're on the topic, I might as well bring it up. If you're Scott's service right now and you're watching this from afar, are you not laughing your ass off watching this? 00:21:00 Speaker 4: He probably thinks it's hilarious. 00:21:02 Speaker 2: Of course, He's like, well, look what happens when there's just no structure and there's just you know, like there's not a there's not a hard press figure in the clubhouse. And you guys thought you could do so much better than me as a manager, and well here we are. 00:21:14 Speaker 4: It took two years for you guys to change your mind. 00:21:17 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:21:17 Speaker 2: Yes, And by the way, if Scott's here last year, he puts moon yos in Game seven in the seventh. 00:21:23 Speaker 1: Inning, correct, Yeah, another thing? 00:21:27 Speaker 4: Who was I think? 00:21:28 Speaker 1: So here's a question, at what point I'm curious as fans like, at what point do you listen to a player's the players feedback and. 00:21:38 Speaker 4: What point do you not? 00:21:40 Speaker 1: Because the I do feel like players' opinions matter to some extent clip at least for the first one hundred and it seems like that strategy, the hands off strategy for this team from a leadership perspective, worked for about the first one hundred and eighty game, one hundred and ninety games that Dan Wilson managed. 00:22:03 Speaker 3: Well because you had a catcher hitting sixty homers. 00:22:07 Speaker 1: Yes, that's why I said, just from like a leadership perspective, where when a guy hits sixty home runs, it's pretty easy for him to command everyone else and everyone starts listening, right, So let's. 00:22:16 Speaker 2: Map this out and just in case people aren't aware, this is why I want to do this. There has been multiple reports over the course of especially this year, talking about how when it comes to clubhouse presence and when it comes to leading a clubhouse, Dan Wilson is very hands off, so much so that it's been reported that he very very lean or he very very much leans heavily on cal Raley to be the vocal leader and kind of the presence in that clubhouse. Well, when that's your approach, it works great when Cal's hitting sixty home runs, or it even works in twenty twenty two, twenty three, and twenty four when Cal's an All Star level catcher even though he wasn't in the All Star Game those years. When he's hitting thirty five homers and he's got a one twenty WRC plus and he's putting up a four and a half win season, he's the he's the leader. People respond really well to Cal because he's the guy that people really look to. I am gonna guess when Cal is having the year that he's having, he doesn't feel as comfortable being that voice and leading because people are gonna either he feels this way or this is what happen. 00:23:15 Speaker 3: Is what's happening. 00:23:16 Speaker 2: People are looking at him and saying, well, he's trying to be the leader, but he's been, you know, statistically one of the worst qualified hitters in baseball. So are people gonna respond the same way? And when that happens, now you've left yourself exposed because the leader you've leaned on doesn't feel presumably comfortable enough to do that leading. And then you have not stepped in presumably to fill that void. 00:23:39 Speaker 1: Right, We can even use the best example we've seen the season, Randy Rosearina might listen to Cal Rowley when he's hitting sixty homers. At least try to listen to Cal a little bit. I think Randy's listening to Cal five fifty oh ps. No, No, I don't think so. And obviously the WBC stuff didn't help that either. 00:23:56 Speaker 2: No. You know, sometimes a Tulio that has to get and Randy's heer. We've seen that before, right, Sometimes a Tulio that has to do it. Even though Julio's much younger than Randy is, he kind of has to be that leader in the outfield. But you know, in Randy jogged after that play in Tampa, for example, Like, there's no repercussions for that now. I mean, he didn't get bench, she didn't sit out a game, nothing. And I feel like under Scott Service we might have seen something different. 00:24:22 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so too. 00:24:23 Speaker 1: All right, I think there's one part left to this, But before that, I want to tell you guys about Emerald Queen Casino's summer lineup of shows. Yachtlee Crue goes to EQC at the end of this week August fifteenth, Brantley Gilbert's there on August twenty second, Pete Davidson on August twenty eighth, and Bobby Lee on September fourth. Get your tickets today at Emerald Queen dot com. Emerald Queen Casino is the entertainment capital of the Northwest, and while you're there, you can check out the bet MGM sportsbook. There is no better place to watch the game. Seventy dream seat loungers, done, dozens of eighty six inch TVs, legal wagering on college in pro sports. You can download the bett equ app for live wagering anywhere on the property. Catch every sport in every play at Emerald Queen Casino. For more details, visit Emerald Queen dot com. Please game responsibly. Okay, the last bit of this that we have not talked about is we've talked about the coaches, we've talked about the players. 00:25:17 Speaker 4: We've not talked about the front office executives. 00:25:20 Speaker 1: Now, that was by far the least likely of any moves to be made, like firing. It would have been firing Jerry Depoto in the forty eight hours since Sunday has not happened, and I didn't think that was gonna happen, But we can still ask the question of why because it helps answer the other two questions that we asked earlier that it seems like both Jerry Depoto and Justin Hollander have job security for next season and are operating as such. 00:25:47 Speaker 2: Sure, and let's be clear when we talk about the coaching staff and we talk about Dan Wilson, we're talking about this season, and what Divish is talking about in his article is they would not let him go mid season. 00:25:58 Speaker 3: That's what you were referencing with. 00:26:00 Speaker 2: When the Mariners did that to service mid season, things were really strained and it's probably a relationship that's unrepaarable at this point. 00:26:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, you probably just don't talk to Ken Rosenthal the day before you fire your manager. Probably not probably a good step, I would say, wards towards just having a nice clean break where you just say, hey, it's not working. 00:26:19 Speaker 2: I mean, you can talk to Ken Rosenthal, but don't maybe go on the record and say everything's on the table, including firing our manager while he's still the manager. 00:26:27 Speaker 3: So yeah, I don't think that's happening. 00:26:29 Speaker 2: Again, I would say this though, everything we've talked about does not apply to what happens after the season, And if you read the tea leaves of a lot of the reporting, you can kind of pick up on the idea that after the season they missed the playoffs, things keep going like this. Yeah, like there could very well be some changes. It's like, hey, man, we're not leaving you high and dry. We're not making you look bad publicly. It's not in the middle of a road trip. You're just you're not gonna manage this team anymore you can. 00:26:54 Speaker 3: They can pr spin it however they want. 00:26:55 Speaker 2: If they pr spin it that Dan Wilson wants to spend more time with family, it took too much on them and they're going to find a new manager for next year, fine, I think we all know what the real reason will be despite how they pr spin it. But they can pr spen it however they want. But anyway, back to Jerry and Justin and back to the front office. Why are they operating the way they're operating. Yeah, I think they have job security, And truthfully, I don't really have an issue with that. If you're somebody that really wants to see this front office overhauled. Look, I'm not saying it's the craziest idea in the world. I'm not gonna sit here and say you don't know ball or you don't know what you're talking about. I can listen to an argument about why you might want to see changes because it's been eleven years. They've had one meaningful banner hung up when they won the Als last year. 00:27:36 Speaker 3: That's it. 00:27:37 Speaker 2: That being said, it is hard to really point to a time where the organization's been in a healthier spot than under this regime because while look, it's not all about prospects, and prospects can't be the end all be all. 00:27:51 Speaker 3: You know, you consistently have. 00:27:52 Speaker 2: Talent coming down the pipeline in different waves, and the old versions of the Mariners didn't have that. So it feels like they're opera like they have job security, and I don't really have an issue with that. But if you're asking the why and why they're not yanking up Kaid and why they're not yanking up a Royal, that would be my guess as to why from a Mariner's perspective. 00:28:11 Speaker 1: But that also could be to the detriment of this season for sure. Unfortunately, if you're Jerry Depoto says, look, My job is for us to be good in twenty twenty six and twenty twenty seven and twenty twenty eight. Very logical and sound way to think about things. It's not an aj preler. We're just going to trade our number three prospect for a closer, right, that's the number three prospect in baseball for a closer just cuz No, Jerry's a little bit more measured in the way he goes about things. But like then, it turns if to me, watching what we've watched turns off the urgency a little bit of course. 00:28:48 Speaker 2: Well, and this goes back to what we talked about a lot on Monday's episode, which is, while Jerry might be totally sound and Justin might be totally sound, and that logic and that reasoning that goes back to your banger of a one liner. In my opinion, fans are always left holding the bag because by them operating that way, great, you have job security. You get to keep operating the way you want to operate in seasons moving forward. You don't have to yank up Kate Anderson, you don't have to yank up Michael Arroyo. You can save their service clock and you can try to get that PPI pick and you can wait till twenty twenty seven. Fine, guess who doesn't reap all the benefits of that. 00:29:24 Speaker 3: The fans. 00:29:24 Speaker 2: All your fans are likely on a crash course to watch this team miss the playoffs this year, and they're the ones that have to suffer. 00:29:31 Speaker 1: So how many people like I just let's use this example right here. People watch the twenty twenty five mirrors and they might have some skepticism. Perhaps they bought a flex pass, or maybe they only bought three sets of tickets for the entire season because they didn't like how the twenty twenty five offseason was. And to be honest, I feel like there's a lot of people, a lot of people, maybe even within the Mariners' organization, say yeah, like, maybe that was not our best performance. Let us prove it to you. And I think the Mariners during the season last year proved it to people why they should come out and watch this team. The sixty home run catcher with a great deadline, et cetera. And now that fan turn you around to the next season where you bring in Brendan Donovan and you bring in at the time, it looked like a good signing in Rob Refsnyder and you re signed josh Naeler for a big extension. Everything looks great, and this fan says, Okay, I'm gonna buy season tickets. Season tickets sound great. I can't wait to watch this team at the park all season. They showed me they cared last year. I'm gonna show them they care this year. But now we've reached this point mm hmm where the energy is not the same. It feels a little closer to the beginning of twenty twenty five than it does to the end of twenty twenty five. 00:30:38 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that's all right, where fans are back to the skepticism and when fans ask, yeah, why aren't we seeing some of the top prospects promoted. 00:30:47 Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be slowan, it doesn't have to be las. 00:30:49 Speaker 2: I mean, again, we've highlighted lads of strikeout issues and still has a lot of work to do against left handed pitching. But for two guys that look pretty close to ready, you want to see action taken and you want to see a push toward the finish line this season, and they're not seeing it. So if you're a fan and you're skeptical, and you're already obviously probably upset about how the first four and a half months of the season have gone for every good reason. Yeah, like you're totally valid. You're totally valid and feeling that way, right. 00:31:14 Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's how we are where we are right now, one game into the road trip, one terrible offensive performance and one loss against a lefty. 00:31:23 Speaker 4: Do you got anything else? I mean again, this team is kind of draining. 00:31:27 Speaker 1: A lot of the There's not a lot of creativity left in this season. 00:31:30 Speaker 4: I'm gonna be totally frank, you know. 00:31:31 Speaker 2: That's what I'm just posted on social media before we were recording this, I literally captioned it. We've now resorted to making TikTok trends. This is how down bad we. 00:31:41 Speaker 1: Are does not don't have words left. I didn't even see the other video you put out there, so that was a good one. I didn't get to watch it earlier. That was actually great. I'll give you credit live on the podcast, Oh the Bill Simmons one. 00:31:49 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah. 00:31:50 Speaker 2: Bill Simmons has weirdly become obsessed with Kate Anderson, a man who like is basketball and football focus that never talks about baseball certainly doesn't talk about the Mariners now, has this odd investment in his AL keeper league. 00:32:02 Speaker 3: Yes, in fantasy baseball. I talked about it in the video. 00:32:04 Speaker 2: He's in an AL keeper league, which is a very very like Sico type of fantasy baseball league. And there must be some dynasty aspect of this too, which is what I said in the video, because he is Kate Anderson on his team. 00:32:16 Speaker 4: Yeah, all these all these keeper leagues are are dynasty. Dynasty. 00:32:21 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:32:21 Speaker 4: So so he never gives up Kate Anderson. 00:32:23 Speaker 2: Right, So he's just stashing him on his bench all year. And if you go look at simmons last two tweets, it literally says, hey, Mariners, bring up Kate Anderson, you cowards and you what is it? 00:32:33 Speaker 3: You dumb dinks? Is what he said. 00:32:34 Speaker 4: He tweets about the Mariners more than we do nowadays. 00:32:38 Speaker 3: Well, in the last twenty four hours he does. 00:32:39 Speaker 1: He ripped off two tweet tweeting about him more than even more than like the most frustrating part of the season. 00:32:45 Speaker 3: Dude, shout out Bill Simmons. 00:32:46 Speaker 2: I've said this, all Mariners publicity is good publicity because they don't get talked about on the East coast. 00:32:51 Speaker 3: They certainly don't get talked about by. 00:32:52 Speaker 2: People like Bill Simmons and Rousseillo and some of the true top dogs in sports media. You want to throw a part in my take in there, like they're too general. They talk about football and basketball and other sports so much that they're not fixating on one team. So anytime any of those top notch sports media outlets talk about the Mariners, it can be anything and everything. It's good publicity. Like Bill Simmons is talking about the Mariners, it's talking about Kaid. 00:33:16 Speaker 1: So two for today. Jeff Passon made a video about him too, Yeah, and he was ripping on him. Yeah, it wasn't positive. I guess neither of them are positive. 00:33:23 Speaker 2: Then again, Jeff Passon talks about the Mariners every week because he's on Brock and Talk every week. So I mean, he was the man two weeks ago who said the following line. 00:33:30 Speaker 3: I think it's very simple. 00:33:31 Speaker 2: If Dan Wilson wasn't one of the most historic players in franchise history, he no longer be the manager. 00:33:37 Speaker 3: That was Passon's words, not mine. Passons. Yeah, he Passon talks. He talked about the Mariners plenty. 00:33:42 Speaker 1: Did you see us someone quote tweeted the Passing video with like the the frame of one of the first clips we ever put out as a podcast. Yeah, it was like Jeff Passing calls Marritors fans spoiled. 00:33:55 Speaker 2: We've and you know what, We've we've talked to him about that before, briefly, but we met that. We've talked to him about it because I think the first time I ever told him I was part of Brocken Saul, he goes, were you on the show what I called Mariners fans spoiled? I was like, you know what, No, but I remember so, yeah, I. 00:34:16 Speaker 4: Mean, I they are not spoiled anymore. 00:34:18 Speaker 2: And I think he'd agree, No, the Mariners are the furthest possible thing from spoiled. I mean, except who you are as a franchise. You have not been to the World Series ever in the fifty years you've existed as a franchise. Every other franchise has been to the World Series in that time. It's not just that, oh, you're the only franchise. I think you're the only one in the last fifty years. Like the Pirates weren't it in the late seventies, the Oils were in it in the early eighties. Those teams have gone a long time, but not longer than the Mariners. 00:34:46 Speaker 3: No. 00:34:47 Speaker 2: I mean, like the Guardians haven't won since forty seven or forty eight, but they've. 00:34:50 Speaker 4: Been in it, and yeah, they had a chance and it is very good chance. 00:34:55 Speaker 3: Yeah. So yeah, that's where we are. 00:34:57 Speaker 2: Never made the World Series, and it doesn't look like they'll this year unless something very very drastic changes. 00:35:03 Speaker 4: So make a prediction. It won't be Friday's podcast. 00:35:05 Speaker 1: It would be next Monday's podcast till we have a promotion by then. 00:35:11 Speaker 2: Man, I hope, so I'll say yes, let me spark some awesome optimism into people's brains and say yes, at least one of Kate Anderson or Michael Royal will be here about that. 00:35:19 Speaker 1: I mean maybe, honestly, maybe they bump a starter to the bullpen. 00:35:23 Speaker 4: Put Kate in the rotation. 00:35:24 Speaker 2: Makes sense, And honestly, I will be very interested to see how Bryce Miller start this week in New York goes, because I'm not going to speculate too much. But Bryce's velo has been down and he has not been pitching the same and we've talked about this. When Bryce's velo starts to go down, and he starts to give up runs like that. I mean, those are some of the Bryce Miller tell tales that maybe he's. 00:35:45 Speaker 3: Not one hundred percent. I don't know for sure. 00:35:47 Speaker 2: I'm not a doctor, I'm not a trainer, but when you see the velo start to drop, it does make you wonder, especially with him a little bit. 00:35:53 Speaker 3: Well. 00:35:53 Speaker 1: Also, this is one of those things where we talked about the span between right now and the fifteenth when you can still get the PPI pick for next year. Even despite all of that, Like the Mariners are bringing up Kate Anderson to get better. Right, if they think he truly suits them best in the rotation, then I want to see a starter in the bullpen and Kate in the rotation. Sure, if you think he's better than one of your current five, then then operate that like that. Please and give yourself. Just give yourself the best possible chance to win. That's literally all I'm asking. Give yourself the best chance to win games the rest of the season, because doing nothing, as we've seen like it just leads to the exact same result. The game tonight look just like the game on Sunday, which looked just like the game on Saturday. 00:36:37 Speaker 4: Which looked just like the game on Friday, which. 00:36:39 Speaker 2: Looked just like the game on Thursday against the Tigers, or Wednesday, whichever, Yeah, Thursday and Tuesday you got. I mean, sure, Wednesday they won, but Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday have all looked the same. 00:36:51 Speaker 1: I do get to say this at the start of the of the podcast, curious what you think about today? Is today a tough one, difficult day? 00:37:00 Speaker 4: Or it's just base. 00:37:01 Speaker 2: Oh we forgot to lead with this. We were supposed to lead with this. It's always a tough one. It's always a tough one. Can I say tough one? 00:37:08 Speaker 4: Sure, you could say I'd also go with tough ones. 00:37:11 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm shocked that there hasn't been more T shirts made of that yet. 00:37:17 Speaker 3: To be honest with you, we. 00:37:18 Speaker 4: Saw our friends that Marin or Mojo made one. 00:37:20 Speaker 3: They made one. 00:37:21 Speaker 2: Yeah, shot out shadowt Coltman and Joe for that. But I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been more, especially the way this season's gone. 00:37:28 Speaker 1: So I know, like when Jerry said fifty four percent, like that was like instant. 00:37:33 Speaker 3: Do people have that jersey? 00:37:34 Speaker 2: Like people literally have custom made jerseys that's the number fifty four and it says percent. I think we're trending toward tough one shirts. Yeah, yeah, yep, is that about it? 00:37:44 Speaker 4: I think so. 00:37:44 Speaker 2: I mean, there's only so much you can say about these guys at this point, so sure, that's probably a good place to wrap well. Shout out to everybody that came out to this podcast taping. We always always love interacting with all our podcast fans. It's a blast. Shout out to our friends at Corona. Shout out to Queen Anne beer Hall. We always love doing these. We'll have one more podcast taping this year that'll be in the middle of September. It'll be at Moss Bay, Haul and Kirkland, so we'll keep you posted on the dates for that. But for now, that just about wraps up this edition of the Marine Layer podcast. 00:38:11 Speaker 3: You guys know the drill. 00:38:11 Speaker 2: If you want to listen to the full form podcast, you can do so wherever you get your audio pods. 00:38:15 Speaker 3: Just make sure to download these episodes. 00:38:16 Speaker 2: If you're listening, make sure to go rate and review and please leave it five stars if you do so. You can also hit subscribe on YouTube. If you're watching and you see the subscribe button. Just take a second to press it. It's the best way to support the channel. You can also find all our episodes at our website too, that's marine layerpod dot com and if you go there you can find our merch you can find our Patreon. That's all over at our one stop shop website, marine layerpod dot com, and then find us on social media. We're everywhere and we're posting content every day at Marine layer Pod. 00:38:43 Speaker 3: That's TJ. I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you so 00:39:03 Speaker 2: Stisti