Episode 445: Reacting To The Mariners Worst Loss In Franchise History

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number four forty five of the Marine Layer Podcasts. The Mariners suffer their worst loss in franchise history on Tuesday, so of course we have quite a bit to talk about. 00:00:12 Speaker 2: Reminder to you guys before we start the episode, just make sure you download these podcasts if you're listening, and rate and review five stars. It helps a ton on Apple and Spotify. If you're watch on YouTube, make sure to go hit subscribe. You can also find all our stuff at our website marine layerpod dot com and includes our merch and includes our Patreon. Go check those out and then follow us on social media. We're everywhere at Marine Layer Pod. 00:00:33 Speaker 1: Let's get it rolling. Hey, welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer podcast, part of the Just Baseball podcast network, recording here on Tuesday evening, August eighteen, Brewers twenty two Mariners. Nothing lyle. 00:01:02 Speaker 3: I'm just gonna start with this. 00:01:04 Speaker 2: This video has been sent around in our group chats plenty almost all year, certainly in the second half of the year, and it's the only way I can describe what we just watched on Tuesday nights. 00:01:14 Speaker 3: Let me just play it for you all. I'll play it for you all even put it up to the screen. Thank you, thank you squid word, thank you squid word. 00:01:28 Speaker 2: That is from SpongeBob for those who don't get the reference, But that is squidward tentacles lapping his tail off. And that is the only way I would describe whatever the hell we just watched on Tuesday night in Milwaukee. 00:01:41 Speaker 1: Dude, they couldn't even score off of Gary Sanchez in then if. 00:01:46 Speaker 2: That's how bad, that's how bad the game, dude, Like, think about what we're saying here. Remembers didn't lose nine to nothing. They lost twenty two to fucky nothing. That is the worst shutout loss in the history of Major League Baseball since eighteen eighty eight. That is a real stat shout out, Sarah Langs. 00:02:12 Speaker 3: Eighteen eighty eight is. 00:02:14 Speaker 2: The last time there was a shutout loss that bad. And the Mariners just did it in their own right tonight. 00:02:23 Speaker 1: Do you know the name of the team that had that a larger shutout win or yeah, larger shutout win. 00:02:33 Speaker 2: Oh, I saw it because it was on Twitter tonight. The Quakers, right. 00:02:37 Speaker 1: The Philadelphia Quakers. If you need reference for just how long ago eighteen this game eighteen eighty seven was the Philadelphia Quakers are the only team to win by more. 00:02:52 Speaker 2: Yep, Honestly, there's a million ways we could have started this podcast. I'll even give people an alternative intro if you didn't like the way. We just brought that one in and won a different one. Here's another Welcome into the Marine Layer podcast. It's part of the Just Baseball podcast network, recording here on Tuesday, August the eighteenth, And holy hell, are Mike McDonald and Brian Flurry about to rip into this team for laying a goose egg against the Green Bay Packers tonight as they lose twenty two to nothing. Sam Donald, Sam Donald couldn't put up a point, Jenarian Price, didn't run the ball well, jays N Sureley didn't get any separation like out in the middle of the field today because huh shut out. 00:03:34 Speaker 1: The Seahawks allowed less points than that in seventeen of their twenty one games last year. 00:03:39 Speaker 2: Holy hell, yeah, yeah, dude, I mean, what are we even supposed to say at this point? Yeah, the Mariners just won two of three against the Astros, and yes, this is only one game, but oh my god, man, like that's not just one loss. 00:04:00 Speaker 1: But you remember how we threw in there though, It's like, Okay, the Mariners are nine to two against the Astros, but they're fourteen games under five hundred against an everyone else. Well, that kind of looked like a team that was fourteen games under five hundred against everyone else. Yep, kind of looked like whatever Pixie does they have against the Astros. 00:04:19 Speaker 2: Just it was just gone, yeah, and when you go up against the best team in Major League Baseball record wise, you better bring your A game and whatever the literal opposite of an A game is, like triple that. And then that's what they put out there tonight, twenty two to nothing, capped off by your near five hundred million dollars center fielder if the whole contract pays out near five hundred million dollars center fielder chucking a baseball over the fence. As there was not three outs in the inning with multiple runners on base, allowing two more runs to score. 00:05:02 Speaker 1: It's like, oh, Julio didn't just do that, do it? Did he? 00:05:06 Speaker 3: No? 00:05:06 Speaker 1: He did, he did do that. He didn't know how many outs there were, and luckily for him, the game might have been a little bit out of reach. But uh, man, I'm sorry. I don't care if the score is like three nothing or twenty to nothing like. Once you're playing like major league baseball, like, you don't get an excuse to not know how many outs there are. 00:05:32 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know who makes fun of not knowing how many outs there are? 00:05:36 Speaker 3: Ken Murphy. 00:05:37 Speaker 2: Ken Murphy is a Ken Murphy's a satire baseball YouTuber. Yeah, man, we're not here to talk about how many outs there are. He's a satire baseball YouTuber who thrived in the twenty tens with videos on little league fields like. 00:05:54 Speaker 1: There was a lot of discourse online today about whose responsibility it is that Julio knows how many outs there are. Let's run through the list of it right now. People need a refresher. Number one is obviously Julio. Julio needs to know how many outs there are. But number two, If Julio does not know how many outs there are, there are obviously plenty of other players on the field that also need to let Julio know. Hey, man, here's how many outs there are. And then, of course everyone in the dugout also is responsibilities making sure Julio knows how many outs there are. 00:06:29 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, Sureley Randy was as alert as Julio in a twenty to nothing game? 00:06:34 Speaker 1: Is he still playing? 00:06:36 Speaker 3: I think? I think? 00:06:39 Speaker 2: Okay, I mean you want to check the box score. We can check the box score and see if Randy came out. I don't think he did. It's twenty two to nothing. Like, what are we even doing? 00:06:50 Speaker 1: What's funny about this loss? What it had everything that was wrong with the twenty twenty six Seattle Mariners in it, like besides, like the score itself, it had it checked like every single box. So we've said this season is the most disappointing season in franchise history, and it's clearing it by a country mile by the way. The more goes on. Isn't it just ironic that they have the worst loss in franchise history the season they have the most disappointing season in franchise history. I'd say that's relevant. 00:07:26 Speaker 2: Yes, and go down the checklist tonight. Because you wrote it all out. You wanted to hit a bunch of points when talking, you wanted to hit a bunch of points here, like lay it all out for why it was the worst loss we've ever seen. 00:07:39 Speaker 1: Well, to start off, I mean they got shut out again, so they face a real pitching staff and they can't score great the team had or sorry, I'm just skipping past one. Bryce Miller faltered again down the stretch. He's been terrible in his last seven starts. The Maris have lost all seven of them, and Kate Anderson remains in the minor leagues. Well, the Mariners have seen how bad Bryce Miller has been after a really strong start to the season. As of sitting here on Tuesday, the Mariner there is less than forty five days remaining in the season in Kate Anderson sits in double A while Bryce started again here tonight and crumbled once he got into the fifth inning. The team lyle had a colossal base running mistake. What that's not possible base running? 00:08:28 Speaker 3: They never do that. 00:08:32 Speaker 1: I could have swore I was seeing something. Oh and then also Dan Wilson had a huge bullpen blunder in the fifth inning which allowed Christian Yelich to hit a three run home run after Bryce was clearly struggling. Christian Yelich smacks a home. 00:08:48 Speaker 2: Run to add to add on to what happened in the top of the fifth inning when they finally showed signs of life against Kyle Harrison. For the first time all night. They had two runners on with two outs. You flip the order back to the top of the lineup. Brendan Donovan comes to the player who's been swinging a hot bath the last week. He doubled off the harrison in the first inning, and you decide to double steal with two outs, you get thrown out, you take the bat out of Donovan's hands. 00:09:12 Speaker 3: It ends the inning. 00:09:13 Speaker 2: And then that bottom of the fifth ensues, which was only the tip of the iceberg to an absolutely disastrous loss. 00:09:19 Speaker 1: And in that fifth inning, Dan Wilson had two lefties hot and still let Bryce Miller face Christian Yelich. 00:09:27 Speaker 3: Yep, keep going. There's more. 00:09:31 Speaker 1: Julio throws the ball into the stands in the eighth inning, thinking that there were three outs. There were only two outs, and Julio ends up chucking the ball after he catches it into the stands and two runs score not great, not great. 00:09:48 Speaker 3: And then the. 00:09:49 Speaker 1: Maritors finished the inning bybe not scoring against the Brewers backup catcher on. 00:09:54 Speaker 3: The mound in Gary Sanchez yeah. 00:09:56 Speaker 2: And Gary yeah, and Gary Sanchez yeah. And then to Capitol that's the checklist. No, there's one more. And then to cap it all after Oh, there's one more, and then to cap it all off after the game. You thought we were gonna get a big time tough one from Dan Wilson tonight. You seriously, you seriously thought it. We all thought it. Oh No, the Mariners decided, you know what, We're not gonna air as press conference today. We're just not gonna show people we lose twenty two to nothing. People are looking for some transparency, People are looking for any signs of life. No, we're not gonna show the press conference. By the way, it's not a getaway day. The Mariners aren't flying home. People aren't trying to run out of their fast first game of the series. They just didn't air the press conference. No, no, why why show any transparency? We don't need to air this. No, we're good. 00:10:43 Speaker 1: No, it's just too tough of a one mile. 00:10:46 Speaker 2: Too tough of a one. It's too tough of a one to even air. I thought we might get twenty two tough ones in a row. I thought we might get tough, tough, tough, tough, tough, tough, tough, tough, tough, tough, tough, tough, tough, tough one. However, many times twenty. 00:10:58 Speaker 1: Two, which, by the way, total conspiracy. I swear Hyphen dropped a tough one on purpose on the broadcast. That's my opinion that that was my opinion taken from me watching the postgame show. But Hyphen's got this big smile on his face as he's signing off, and him and Brad are like lamenting on how bad the game was, and like, as like Hyphen's last word on the broadcast, we're like, we're essentially like, yeah, tough one with a big smile across his face as they go to commercial. And you know, I haven't talked with Hyphen about this, so I can't know if he actually did it on purpose, but I saw that in the moment, and I was like, it was the Leo DiCaprio meme exactly the point that sounded like it to me. So that was the only tough one we got on the postgame show tonight. 00:11:53 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:11:53 Speaker 2: I mean listen, TJ and I were absolutely seated for that postgame show because we were texting in the middle of the game once this thing to totally got out of hand and we're like, oh, this press is going to be unreal tonight. 00:12:05 Speaker 3: Oh, but then they don't show it, don't need to show it. Why don't we do that? 00:12:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, so we sat. There's a little bit, I think, still a little bit more to talk about from this game, Wile. But before that, I want to tell everyone about Emerald Queen Casino's summer lineup of shows. Briantly Gilbert visits EQUC on August twenty second, Pete Davidson on August twenty eighth, Bobby Lee on September fourth, and Joe Coy Live on September fifth. Get your ticket today at Emerald Queen dot com. Emerald Queen Casino is the entertainment capital of the Northwest, and while you're there, you can take your night to the next level at Sla Hall Steakhouse. Rooftop dining at Emerald Queen gives you mountain to sound views paired with the premium steaks and creative cocktails. You'll just have to see it to believe it. Come by Friday and Sunday from four to ten and Saturday from four to eleven. Get your reservation today on open table or by calling two five three four four one thirty one oh one. That's two five three for one thirty one oh one. Is there even any big picture stuff left to talk about here, like the only like there's only like two even remotely positive things you could take out of this game. Number one, I mean, all losses do technically count the same, and the Astros also lost, so they didn't actually lose any ground. The problem I'm I'm sitting here and absorbing right now is that it just that's what the Mariners look like when they don't play the Houston Astros. That's just how it's been. Yes, So if that's just like, if that's the team that's gonna show up for this fifteen game stretch before they get to the easy the easy stretch of the schedule, then there is no survival. There's there's gonna be no such surviving happening this season. The season would then be over. If that's what's gonna happen. 00:13:57 Speaker 2: I thought we've already declared the season over. Certainly feel don't after tonight. 00:14:01 Speaker 1: Well, they might actually might actually like be eliminated. 00:14:05 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true, they might. 00:14:08 Speaker 2: I Mean, I have takeaways, and I have big picture takeaways, but it's nothing different than the things we've talked about all year. I'll say them again because they're certainly relevant. Tonight, which is the team lacks focus, The team has no discipline, the team does not play fundamental baseball. You have mental mistakes left and right. The Mariners made four errors tonight on top of getting shut out. 00:14:29 Speaker 3: How long can this go on? Dude? 00:14:31 Speaker 2: It's August eighteenth or nineteenth when you're listening to this. How much longer are all the decision makers in the organization totally sound and totally content with this type of sloppy baseball being played night after night after night. These are not one offs. This is This is the identity of the team this year. They are a sloppy, unsound baseball team that does not play good fundamental ball at all. 00:14:59 Speaker 1: And I keep thinking of about the parallels to the twenty twenty four season, and like, this season is so much worse than that season. They're they're eight games worse essentially than where that team was, if not more at the same point. And that team did a whole lot more to a whole they they made much bigger actions than this current team does it has done. I mean, well, like that team fired all three of its hitting coaches, the manager, and DFA. They're every one of their everyday players in their lineup. Yes, Mariners haven't done that. 00:15:38 Speaker 3: They know they. 00:15:39 Speaker 2: Fired their third hitting coach. That was all the accountability they needed. That fixed everything and got rid of Mitch Garvery. Is that's going to solve everything? 00:15:47 Speaker 3: Mm hmm. On repsider two, you know that he. 00:15:51 Speaker 1: Was definitely in the lineup a ton in the last three months of the season. 00:15:54 Speaker 3: Yeah, that fixed everything, fixed everything. 00:15:56 Speaker 2: I don't know how you can continue to play baseball like this without changes being made. I know what Divish wrote, I know he thinks there's not going to be any big changes that happen in season, But I just don't know how much longer you can let this go on. This is ridiculous, Like that's not just a bad loss, that is an embarrassing slap to the face loss. And if it's not gonna happen in season, then two things are true. I don't know how in the world it doesn't happen immediately after the season ends, because you cannot turn around and say a season like this is acceptable. You cannot tell the baseball world and your fan base that it is. 00:16:36 Speaker 3: It's not. 00:16:37 Speaker 2: And if you're okay with just rolling out what you have with no more changes being made, then what you're telling people is you're operating is if everybody has job security, and that's totally fine, And like winning isn't taking all precedents here in all priority. No, it's it's let's make sure everybody has job security. Yeah, I don't want to be the one to call for people's jobs, but how in the world can this go on twenty two nothing? Your center fielder, your star center fielder, chucked a ball over the fence with less than three outs And I'm sorry, I know that primary the primary person that's on is Julio, but it encapsulates what we've seen all year. It's a team that lacks It's a team that lacks total focus and discipline. And ultimately, when you have mental mistakes that happen in the game, day in and day out, that is on the coaches. Those are not physical mistakes. That's that's on your coaches. 00:17:38 Speaker 1: It just is it's about setting the culture of the team. It's like, yeah, this is this is what is expected of you when you're going to take the field every day and what you are aware of. 00:17:49 Speaker 2: Yeah, by the way, is there going to be any accountabilities shown for that? 00:17:53 Speaker 3: Wednesday? 00:17:54 Speaker 2: And Wednesday's game because when Randy decided to just jog after that ball in Tampa and was immediately followed up by a home run that Luis gave. 00:18:00 Speaker 3: Up, there was nothing. 00:18:02 Speaker 2: I mean, Randy was right in the lineup the next day, right Penzilan and left field, toward the top of the lineup, like nothing had happened. 00:18:08 Speaker 3: Like again, I. 00:18:08 Speaker 2: Hate to do this and have to call for anything, but when you see something like that happen, like it is Julio gonna get moved down to like the eight or nine spot in the lineup? Is he gonna get the day off? Like is there gonna be some action taken for some level of discipline or no? Is everything just peachy Keene? And then Julio run back out there doing the same old thing, because well Dan Dan Wilson is mister Kumbayah in the clubhouse, even though it's a team that's been as unfocused and undisciplined as ever before. Like, is there gonna be any accountability for any of this? 00:18:42 Speaker 1: There's just no sound reason you can tell your fans for not doing anything the rest of the season on any level of the team anything now Like they've gone into this road trip, uh and done like even from the the easiest thing to do is call it prospects. Right there, there is a very easy case to be made that you could have had Kate Anderson up today. I know we started on Friday and it's not a normal rest, but you could have planned this out a little bit better. Right where you're you're like on the baseball field, giving yourself a better chance of winning the game. Where you're like, you know, Bryce is struggling. You know, we could have a short leash. You know, Kid's ready, right, Like something like that where you you have this chip on the board, You have this piece on the board where you know it deserves a spot in the middle of the action, but you refuse to push that piece forward and use it properly. Because like, if Kate Anderson makes another start in double A, like I am honestly wondering aloud what the Mariners are doing, given that the state of where things are at by the time they get home on Friday against the Chicago Cubs. And if the rest of this series with the bruise goes as is, like, how could you look people in the face and say, we like this, this is the right decision to be made. This season here in year eleven, in a year you're supposed to make the World Series. How how is this the right decision to be made going forward? 00:20:14 Speaker 3: And by year eleven, you mean for people that didn't pick up. 00:20:17 Speaker 1: Jeredy Poto and Justin Holder have been here eleven years. 00:20:20 Speaker 3: Yep. 00:20:21 Speaker 2: By the way, if you don't call him up ahead of the cub Series, then I think what we I think we know what the answer is, and it's certainly not an answer that prioritizes twenty twenty six. What the Mariners are saying this point, at this point, if Friday comes around and Kate Anderson is not up, then what they are saying is they don't want to put Kate Anderson on the forty man roster because they are thinking about the lockout in twenty twenty seven and him not being able to play baseball or get his work in with the club at the facilities and playing in games while there's a potential lockout looming and going on. Because Kate's not on the forty man roster, if they keep it that he could just go pitching the minor leagues again next year until baseball starts. But by not putting him on the roster right now. That's what it's signaling. At this point, Friday comes around and he's not up in Seattle, you're signaling that you are again doing the exact thing we said they cannot be doing, which is prioritizing twenty twenty seven by not putting him on the forty man No, it should not be allowed in any way, shape or form by not putting him on the forty man roster and the twenty six man roster right now. If he's not up by Friday, says okay, that forty five day window is now here. You're not gonna lose a year of his service time. You're not gonna lose or not service time. You're not gonna lose the rookie eligibility. He can still win Rookie of the Year next year and you can get that draft pick. He's not here by Friday, you're saying that, well, we're prioritizing twenty twenty seven. Let's just not put him on the forty man roster because we're thinking about the lockout next year. 00:21:51 Speaker 3: And in a season like. 00:21:52 Speaker 2: This where you heard your own organization, players, coaches, front office talk World Series preseason, and now you're holding down prospects to think about the lockout. No, to your point, to your words, that should not be allowed. 00:22:07 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of places where it is not allowed. I was thinking about this today, Like how many different markets in Major League Baseball? Could you look at the Mariners exact situation if you were to paint that somewhere else, what would happen? Like you could check every box, Like you have a president in eleven years, you have a manager who most of the fan base, including us, think is wholly unqualified for the job and does not make them better in any way, shape or form. The players drastically underperforming across the board with focus defense, base running, hitting issues, and the only thing that has happened four and a half months into the season as you fire the third hitting coach on the team. Like other places, it's so much more than that, Like there's this expectation that something like this is just not allowed to happen at the state of the franchise that the Mariners are currently at right now. So I mean, do you want to I'm getting kind of tired of this, like same song and dance that low and I have been getting on slow more and more and more in the last two months, where it's like, like the sentiment is pretty clear, and what we're saying is what pretty much every person in the fan base currently thinks of the Seattle Mariners right now. The fan base, low, I think, has never been more united than it is right now, honestly, even more united than it was during the postseason last year on like what the problems of this team are and what needs to be done and the team is not doing those things. 00:23:40 Speaker 2: I mean what you mean by that is you're talking about the manager and and Dan Wilson's approval rating has to be under five percent in the fan base at this point. 00:23:49 Speaker 1: It's not even just the manager at this point, lyle, there's there's heat on every level of the organization. 00:23:54 Speaker 2: Well yeah, And if you want to talk about markets where this would be accepted or not accepted, if you want want to talk about ones where it wouldn't be accepted, you can start with the easy ones. Not New York, not La not Philly, not Boston, those are not Those are the easy ones. When I say Chicago, I more mean the Cubs. Cubs wouldn't let this fly, Braves wouldn't let this fly. Who else? M Well, the Blue Jays let something like this fly. I feel like, no, I don't know. 00:24:26 Speaker 1: You you listed the obvious ones. We'll go with those ones. 00:24:30 Speaker 2: Yeah, there, I mean, I mean, I don't think it would go down like this in Houston, that's for sure. No, there's a lot of markets where nobody's putting up with this. No, and it's not just the fan base that feels this way. I mean, listen to the way the media is now talking about the team. I mean, look at what Matt Calkins and and Mike Arrell of the Seattle Times have written about them this year. I mean Calkins was just torching them in an article this week. 00:24:54 Speaker 1: Torching Jerry, and he's specifically Yeah, he's. 00:24:57 Speaker 2: Not totally wrong for doing so. Everybody is about as united on this as I've ever seen. Like you said, people see things very differently most of the time when talking about the Mariners, and that happens in most fan bases. It's what makes being a fan fun is everybody sees things a little differently, and it makes for good conversation. It has never ever been more united across all fronts than I've seen it. 00:25:22 Speaker 3: Right now. 00:25:23 Speaker 2: Everybody is on the same page, I guess except for the people that have to make the decisions. 00:25:29 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And listen to this tweet from Softy tonight. This is the most depressing thing about this season. Zero accountability and public players are barely talking to the media. Manager reads from the same chapter of his cliche book, Every night Owner is a wall, and no one seems to give a shit. No one in that organization can be surprised by the reaction of this fan base when they operate like this. Nobody I like facts. There's a great tweet, you know, let's pin it up there. 00:26:00 Speaker 3: You know what I say to that, Softy. 00:26:04 Speaker 1: Absolute cinema, Absolute cinema. Okay, I think there's one more topic related to this, so we need to talk about here on this podcast. But before we get to that, let's pause here for an ed. 00:26:17 Speaker 2: Let's compare two players. They're making similar contracts, but you have to pick one guy to be in your lineup. Player one hit three hundred. He had an eight to forty ops and a one forty one WRC plus, forty one percent better than the league average. Player two hit one eighty five. He had a five to sixty three OPS and a sixty three WRC plus. So who would you pick the clear answers player A right because player A is twenty twenty five dominant canzone and player B is twenty twenty two. Abraham Toro, Well, you can apply that same logic to our friends over at Davis Law Group, who offer better service with even better results. Most PI firms charge very similar fees, so why not make it simple and just hire the best. Davis Law Group is your premium option for accident firms. 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That's Dlgseattle dot com slash Baseball. 00:27:44 Speaker 1: So Jesse Rodgers of ESPN was on Foul Territory this week and was talking about the Mariners specifically, and he was saying he could see a massive shake up in the organization this offseason if things go the way there can continuing to go right now. So this is a good exercise because you did a social post on this and now we can talk about this on the podcast. What does a major shakeup for the Seattle Mariners look like? 00:28:13 Speaker 2: So I thought we'd go through the similar checklist that I put out on social media and we can do it right here, because my main sentiment in that post is the Mariners are almost certainly going to make some changes this offseason. Most organizations do season by season, but I don't know of any that would really be quote unquote big, or at least, when I say big, ones that would really shock anybody, ones that would be surprising. Because I'll go through the list, we can add others at the end. But here's what I listed out for potential changes that could happen, and me personally, I wouldn't see any of these as surprises. I'll ask you, Randy A. Roserain is a free agent. He signed somewhere else surprising. No, No, I don't think so. JP Crawford's a free agent. He has been banged up, he's in his thirties, and he is not produced much this year. Let's say the Mariners don't bring him back. Would that be surprising? 00:29:06 Speaker 3: Nope? 00:29:07 Speaker 2: Okay, so that's two down. The Mariners could trade another starter this offseason, because there were certainly very credible rumors that they were shopping some of these guys around over the trade deadline, and with Kate Anderson and Ryan Sloane set to be big leaguers next year, they will need spots. So would it be surprising if they trade another arm this winner. 00:29:27 Speaker 1: Nope, I don't think so. 00:29:29 Speaker 3: No, it would be a. 00:29:30 Speaker 2: Little more surprising than just letting JP and Randy walk, just because you'd have to see him physically execute the trade. But no, I don't think it'd be that surprising because we know that their names were brought up a lot in trade talks. 00:29:42 Speaker 3: So that's a couple. 00:29:45 Speaker 2: They could trade Luke Rayley because him and Tom don't really fit on the same roster together. It's a little bit of a roster cram. Would that be surprising Nope, No, I think we've talked about that, so I don't think that would be that surprising. 00:29:59 Speaker 3: They could not bring back Taylor Ward, who by. 00:30:01 Speaker 2: The way, is somehow not on the il after missing six straight games, and the Mariners are just playing a man down on their roster like yet another thing you can jog up to the season is how they've handled injuries. 00:30:13 Speaker 1: Oh ay, as a one fifty six on base percentage as a Mariner. 00:30:17 Speaker 2: I mean, look, guys, I know it's only been about ten games of Taylor Ward, but this is what I warned people about. I was not high on the trade when they traded for him because of what he'd done over three months in Baltimore. He had a good April, and since then it wasn't very good. We're seeing it right now. Anyway. Let's say the Mariners decide not to bring back Taylor Ward in free agency. 00:30:36 Speaker 3: Would that be surprising? Nope? Okay, And I. 00:30:41 Speaker 2: Would say the last thing on this list would be the Mariners let Dan Wilson go or pr spin it in some way where he saves space, but they find a new manager next year. Would that be surprising? 00:30:53 Speaker 1: Not in the slightest No. 00:30:56 Speaker 3: Not one bit. 00:30:58 Speaker 2: So those would be changes, But is there anything I'm missing here? Because while there would be changes, I just think the way Jesse presented it might be a little misleading because I just don't know what big changes you could see them make. 00:31:15 Speaker 3: Those are all the ones that I think are the realistic ones. 00:31:18 Speaker 1: If Jesse thinks those are massive moves, like he's he doesn't watch every Mariner game, and in the clip on Foul Territory, he admits he's not watching every single Mariners game. He's just sort of getting a giving a national opinion on what he's seeing right there. Maybe he thinks Dan Wilson getting fired and Randy Rosorina going elsewhere are massive moves in a big organizational shakeup, which in his opinion, fine, I guess I have a different opinion of what massive moves will look like. Those moves we honestly at this point expect the Mariners to make in this offseason. But if we're talking about like massive moves in organizational shakeup, like we got to shoot way way higher than that in my opinion. Yeah, like things would need to philosophically change within the organization up and down. Can I throw a couple ideas out to you that would be that this would qualify as massive moves like the Maritors are serious about like changing, like seriously changing. The first one is you get a new front office. Right, That's right, there is a massive change if you want to shake things up. That is shaking things up because all of a sudden, people with no emotional investment in the current state of the Maritors take over this team and they get to decide what of this roster they're keeping in, what they're not, and how they want the philosophy and ideas of this organization going forward. I know there are plenty of fans out there who've just about had it with the front office. You're saying, you've been in you've been in control for eleven seasons. We're currently having our worst season in the season that we're supposed to be our best. I don't know how you should be allowed to go on after this. And people just want a fresh start, and they want new ideas and a new philosophy and a new organizational structure from top to bottom. 00:33:11 Speaker 2: And people probably want some new voices. And in addition to that, because it's not even just all the baseball decisions, presentation matters. It just matters. Think about any job you'd be in. Yeah, presentation and presentation. Yeah, presentation matters. How you hear somebody deliver a message and inspire or not inspire people or motivate people. 00:33:33 Speaker 3: It matters. 00:33:34 Speaker 2: And the presentation of a lot of messaging at this point has grown very old on some people. There's the Dan Wilson portion of it, which we've beaten that horse. 00:33:44 Speaker 3: A million times. 00:33:45 Speaker 2: You guys know how that one goes, and it is not good. But yeah, I mean you get to Jerry, who has certainly tried to mansplain things to fans one or two times in his own right. That's putting it lightly. He has stuck his foot in his own mouth healthy amount of times in the decade plus he's been here. And even Justin Hollander, who I do think for the most part, is pretty well spoken and delivers the right message as a GM when he's asked to talk. You know, he did essentially call some fans lunatics this year. I don't know if that sat well with everybody with all the fames. 00:34:18 Speaker 1: No, no, no, it did not. 00:34:20 Speaker 3: It did not. 00:34:22 Speaker 2: So look, we're just presenting the idea and we're presenting the possibility. But I know there's people in this fan base who do want to hear new voices and see new faces. 00:34:36 Speaker 1: Another thing I'm thinking of if you want to shake things up, Lyle, this this is probably the craziest one. What if you trade one of your two big stars. 00:34:46 Speaker 2: Well, that would be pretty crazy, and I don't think they'd do it, but it would be crazy. 00:34:52 Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be crazy. Uh, I mean I don't think ja. So this is this is these two probably relate to each other because Jerry Justin aren't going to trade those two. But what about someone taking over? 00:35:10 Speaker 2: Okay, but I still don't see somebody taking over doing that. Number one, I'll just respond to each of the two players. How the hell are you gonna trade cal Raleigh after the season he's had. 00:35:24 Speaker 1: Yeah, you wouldn't get a lot back. It's more of this is the direction we're going as an organization. Like for example, like like for like just the strikeouts for example, like we don't want to strike out as much, right, or it's however, this new person in charge perceives the role cal Raley plays in the clubhouse and they decide that that's no longer how they want. Or maybe they're a little bit more cutthroat and they're of the Rays slash Brewer's Tree, where if you're getting up there and we see physical decline you, we're just gonna let you go. 00:36:03 Speaker 3: Right. 00:36:04 Speaker 1: It's like like for them, facts don't care about your feelings and that's why, like, hey, cal you're thirty, so. 00:36:12 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would be very surprised still. 00:36:17 Speaker 1: You want to shake it up that like, that's that is what Jesse what we would consider massive moves or for you know, or for Julio. Maybe they the person in charge sees too much of what doesn't like Julio, like chasing out of the zone. As our friend Hembo put out on on Twitter today, he tweeted out a clip from the show him and Buster do on Baseball Tonight where they're they're talking about all sorts of things, and they're talking about Julio and his chase rates continuing to decline, and they don't like that, and they don't like, you know, they like, for example, to play tonight on Tuesday, and they're like all right, we can't have this mindset in the clubhouse. We need we need a reset on that. 00:36:56 Speaker 2: I just don't think so, because that would essentially signal a full on Rebut and you can't be doing that at this point. And also, Julio's twenty five, Like, you're not going to trade him? 00:37:06 Speaker 1: Probably not. But if you really want to overhaul what the current state of the organization is, like, those are the options, even if you traded two starters. While that's not overhauling the overhauling the philosophy of the organization. That's not making the massive moves and the massive organizational shakeup that people would deem satisfactory. 00:37:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't know if you need a total one to eighty shakeup. There are definitely changes that need to be made. I don't think trading Cal and Julio or either of those. 00:37:41 Speaker 1: You could totally be right. But then a fan comes up to you and says, Lyle, we've never won more than ninety games, uh, and the team is on a downward trend in year eleven, and I don't believe. 00:37:58 Speaker 2: Well, then you should be adding more marquee players to your roster. And that again goes back to the top of the organization and their usual unwillingness to do what it takes to go all in. 00:38:10 Speaker 3: They don't do that ever. 00:38:12 Speaker 1: Totally fair, but we just saw a team with the best record in baseball who has worse owners than the Mariners have beat you twenty two nothing. 00:38:23 Speaker 3: This is true. 00:38:25 Speaker 1: I think there's a team, by the way Lyle that gets the most out of its roster very much the Mariners get the least out of their roster. 00:38:31 Speaker 3: I think if you wanted. 00:38:33 Speaker 2: To bring on a more Brewer's hilled philosophy, there is something to that. I'm not saying it's a crazy idea, but I don't think it involves trading calor Julio. Like I just see no way that would happen. And this is why I think there's gonna be no big changes because you're not gonna trade any of the big contract players off the roster. You're not gonna get anything back for Naylor or Cal at this point, or not what you'd want to get back. Plus there's still expected to be cornerstones and bounced back next year. Julio is an imperfect baseball player. It's it's true. He's not who do you want to compare him to. He's not Bobby Witt, He's not PCA at this point. No, he's not like some of the guys in his class that are centered around him. But he is still a walking four and a half win player every year. And there's who plays center field. So I just don't see how in the world you're gonna get the value you'd want back for that. And again, I don't think either of your middle infield guys are going anywhere. I don't see anybody up the middle going anywhere, is how i'd put it. Cal Julio cole cult. I think those guys are staying put. Now everything else, that's where I think it becomes a discussion. I think everything outside of those four players is a real discussion. But that's the corners, that's the outfield, that's the rotation, it's the bullpen, it's the coaching staff, it's the front office. I think all that is totally warrant a conversation. I don't see how those four guys up the middle go anywhere, And that's why I don't think there's gonna be some drastic change. 00:40:09 Speaker 3: Change, but not drastic change. 00:40:12 Speaker 1: I also wouldn't trade Kelln Julio to make everyone feel better. If you thought I was trying to trade them, No, I would not trade them. I don't think it makes you better next year. So yeah, well, even trading two pictures out of your rotation, Lyle, I don't think does anything. Like that's the most drastic thing you could probably do with your starting rotation. But again, like, is that the most surprising thing? No, Like one of them, you trade for value in one hypothetically, you don't see the long term success for Emerson Hancock and you think last year was or you think twenty twenty six is a total flash in the pan, and you want to take advantage of that value, and you flip them for some young players, and then you sign a veteran starter Like that's how you operate. Even still, I don't think that gives the the change that people are looking for. 00:41:06 Speaker 2: No, you know what you could do, as we put a bow on this conversation, trade for Kyle Tucker. 00:41:15 Speaker 3: We're back, baby whoooo. 00:41:19 Speaker 2: For those who haven't been following along, it is it has not been. It has not been the world's most outstanding season for my guy in La He's he's just. 00:41:29 Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, no, let's not gloss over this lyle Kyle Tucker is playing twenty twenty six Seattle Mariners baseball in a Dodger's uniform. 00:41:39 Speaker 2: Well, you can put it however you want. I'll say, my guy is not having his best season. 00:41:43 Speaker 3: He isn't. 00:41:44 Speaker 2: However, Dodger fans seem fed up. He doesn't seem to be having a fun time. And yes, he has no trade clause and has owned a whole lot of money, but he could wave it. The Dodgers could tell him they want to trade him, and then he decides he'll waive it because he feels unwanted. And if that happens and the Dodgers eat two thirds of his money and Taylor Ward walks next year, I see the Mariners potentially needing a right fielder. And just when I thought about seven months ago the dream was dead, it lived people because the Mariner should go trade for Ka Tuck this winter. He ain't having another season like this again. 00:42:24 Speaker 1: I think Dodgers fans would give him away for free. At this point they would. 00:42:29 Speaker 2: We got friends who are Dodgers have to want him off the roster, And I say, well, I see an opportunity here. 00:42:35 Speaker 3: So while you all thought. 00:42:36 Speaker 2: And while I thought the Dream was dead, turns out what's not dead can never die. Well, actually, no, that's not the whatever I got the saying wrong. It's still possible, is what I'm getting at The. 00:42:49 Speaker 1: Dream not have any choice but to get rid of him at this rate. While with with Mark Walter having to sell off all of his assets, right, you got it, they might have to just start shedding, shedding guys off the ross. 00:43:02 Speaker 2: Great, you can start with Kyle Tucker to Seattle. Yeah, I see an opportunity, Filo and to bounce back. Dodgers need a lot of the money. 00:43:11 Speaker 1: I think that was gonna be really popular in the comment section. 00:43:14 Speaker 3: You're good, it should be. People need to buy in. Listen. 00:43:19 Speaker 2: Dom's been great at d H, but you still need a spot in right field. I see a chance. 00:43:24 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest lyle we just spent twenty minutes talking about the Mariners needing significant change. I think I'm out on Kyle Tucker being on this roster. 00:43:35 Speaker 3: Oh, you can't say that. You can't say that. 00:43:40 Speaker 1: I mean, Kyle Tucker looks like you would fit right in with a Dan Wilson coach baseball team. You saw him drop that ball yesterday. 00:43:48 Speaker 2: Oh, in the outfield, he's dropped fly ball. It's like multiple games in a row now. But again it's too it's because he doesn't like La and he needs to change of scener He needs Seattle, he needs us, and he wants us. 00:44:01 Speaker 1: Do you ever think about all those reports in the offseason that questioned his work ethic. 00:44:07 Speaker 2: Well, maybe he's in the wrong places. Maybe Seattle with a new coaching staff will fix them. 00:44:14 Speaker 1: That's it's possible. 00:44:16 Speaker 2: Listen, there's gonna be time to talk this offseason, especially if there's no baseball, and you better believe the dream lives the Kyle. 00:44:25 Speaker 1: The graph of Kyle Tucker odds to Seattle over the last like two full years have been like like a zigzag like bottom up, down, back up again. 00:44:38 Speaker 3: It's up, it's up, don't roll it out. 00:44:42 Speaker 2: I had to end with that this, I mean, we just watched a twenty two or nothing ball game. I had to get something positive in despite Katok not having his best season. Had to get something positive in. 00:44:52 Speaker 1: At the end, he's hitting on the road. 00:44:55 Speaker 3: He's hitting great on the road. So how else, co what's that? 00:45:01 Speaker 2: How are his home numbers? Oh, they're pretty bad. But supposedly he likes hitting in Seattle. I thought I remember a clip of him a couple of years ago talking about that that he likes T Mobile Park. 00:45:11 Speaker 3: Not I remember that. How does he hit in Seattle? 00:45:14 Speaker 2: As we close out this pod, I will tell people right now at T Mobile Park, he is, well, no, that's opponent. I need ballpark. Here we go, all right, eight hundred ohps solid. 00:45:27 Speaker 1: It's the best player on the team currently. 00:45:30 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm down. Listen, it's coming back this offseason. People, It just is so be prepared. 00:45:38 Speaker 1: There's no baseball. We got a lot of time to kill. 00:45:41 Speaker 3: So yes, we do. We do? 00:45:43 Speaker 1: Should we like mailbox peak for fun? No? 00:45:46 Speaker 2: I told you not doing it for fun. There has to be an end goal here. There has to be a reason. 00:45:51 Speaker 3: To do it. 00:45:52 Speaker 1: Would you do it again if you got this version of Kyle Tucker? 00:45:57 Speaker 2: I mean, I have to keep the original agreement ever acquired by the Mariners. I've got to do it. Okay, So I will still do it just for him, but they have to trade form first. 00:46:08 Speaker 1: Just want to make sure. 00:46:09 Speaker 3: Yeah, I will do it all right. 00:46:11 Speaker 2: That just about wraps up this edition of the Marine Layer podcast. You guys, know the drill. If you want to listen to the full form podcast, you can do so wherever you get your audio pods. Make sure to download these episodes. If you're listening, please go rate and review and leave it five stars. 00:46:24 Speaker 3: It helps a ton. 00:46:25 Speaker 2: If you're watching on YouTube, just take a second and go hit that subscribe button. You can also check us out our website marine layerpod dot com. Our merch is there, our patreons there, episodes are all there. That's marine layerpod dot com. And then find us on social media. We're everywhere and we're posting content every day at Marine Layer Pod. 00:46:44 Speaker 3: That's TJ. I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon. 00:47:01 Speaker 2: Stetta