Episode 447: The Mariners Win The Series Against The Cubs, But It's More Complicated

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number four forty seven of the Marine Layer Podcast. The Mariners win two of three this weekend against the Cubs, but it's not quite that simple. React to the series this weekend. 00:00:11 Speaker 2: Reminder to you guys, just before we start these episodes, make sure you download these podcasts. If you're listening, make sure to rate and review five stars. If you're watching on YouTube, make sure to go hit subscribe. You can find all our stuff on our website as well marine layerpod dot com, merch Patreon episodes. It's all there, and then find us on social media. We're posting content every day at Marine Layer Pod. 00:00:33 Speaker 1: Let's get it rolling and welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball podcast network, Recording here early morning, Monday, August twenty fourth, By far the early the latest we've ever recorded a podcast to fourteen in the morning. But it doesn't matter, because the Seattle Mariners happened this weekend. Again, Lyle, you and I were at a wedding, but they still manage to make things I'll say interesting. 00:01:14 Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you mean by the Seattle Mariners happened? Like they did in fact play three games? They actually did win the series. But as you said in the intro, I don't know if it's that simple. 00:01:27 Speaker 1: Maybe I'll be more specific. The twenty twenty six Seattle Mariners happened like they won a series this weekend. They did, like you win a series against a very very good team, maybe the second best team in the National League at home, and you, in theory, should be feeling pretty good about yourself. But I don't know if I do. And honestly, maybe it's just the really sour taste of Sunday's game where the Mariners lose a lot again for the second time in a week, and there's just more things that happen this weekend that we just I mean, it's just an eye roll again, and a lot of the I think it ultimately comes back to did we see anything different this weekend? With the Mariners winning two out of three against the Chicago Cubs. The answer to that question is no, we didn't see anything different, And if we didn't see anything different, at this point of the season, it is pretty hard to change our minds. 00:02:29 Speaker 2: Well, unless they really start to rattle off a lot of wins. If we want to start with the positives of just winning the series, for a minute here we can talk about Randy. Honestly, even before Randy, we can talk about Kate Anderson because the biggest story of the weekend is Kate Anderson. We haven't sat down and talked on an episode since the news of Kate Anderson getting called up because since we were going to a wedding, we recorded the episode early. The Kate Anderson news broke Thursday afternoon, and now we're sitting here as he's made his first start of the year. So to get to see Kate in a big league uniform and to get to see the call up finally happen, and to see that the Mariners are still to some degree trying to prioritize twenty twenty six. Maybe not all the way, but to some degree, because remember how we talked about last week that if he made another double a start, we were gonna be furious. They did call him up, and he did start, and until a certain point in the game, it was looking really sharp for the guy. So if you want to focus on the p I mean, we can get to the negative part of it later. And it doesn't have to do with Kate. It has to do with well, somebody else, but the Kate Anderson part of this specifically, you know, it's a pretty exciting time, like August twenty third, you can circle on your calendars twenty second and say this is the start of the Kate Anderson era. 00:03:48 Speaker 1: And we were very excited to see the bits and pieces on Saturday as that one was going on. And for the most part, I mean, he looked exactly like the Kate Anderson we saw in the minor leagues. The differences he's facing a big league line up. Neither you or I are surprise he's up in the majors at this time this season. As soon as they went past that forty five game mark of left our forty five day mark left in the season, like it's just math, It's like, okay, he's gonna be a rookie next year. Clearly this is something you very much care about since he's been down in Double A that long. Now all of a sudden, he will be a rookie next year. I mean, of course he's gonna come up. And then oh wait, Brian was a shoulder issue. Okay, now it's time for him to come up, and very very well deserved. Did I miss like the call up video of his like, I don't think. I still don't think I've seen it. 00:04:42 Speaker 2: They just announced it to him in the Double A clubhouse with all his teammates around him. It wasn't the closed door phone on Kid sitting with the coaches. It was in the clubhouse with everybody around him. 00:04:54 Speaker 1: Okay, that's what I thought. I thought there might have been a different one that I missed. Like, I think like the minor leagues tweeted out that video of Kid on the phone, but there's there's no audio, no, and also see Kid's lips moving and nothing else. 00:05:10 Speaker 2: And if you just see Kid's facial reaction, it's very similar to the Colt Emerson call up, where it's just like if you're going to try and interpret with no audio, it just looks like, Yep, it's time when if. 00:05:24 Speaker 1: Kate might be emotional and very happy and very excited. But this dude's probably been expecting to get called up for the last two months. 00:05:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 00:05:32 Speaker 1: I think he's had a little bit of time to prepare for it. It's not it's not coming as a coming as a shock to him. 00:05:36 Speaker 2: No, or to anybody. 00:05:39 Speaker 1: Now, what did you, uh, what do we make of of? I mean, Kate's performance was good. Uh, what about what do we make of Like we have one starts worth of sample of the adjustment up to the big league level, where our friend Lance Brasdowski was talking about him having a bit of a decrease in stuff from his fastball adjusting from the Double A level to the major league level. The ball is different at both of these levels. The climate is different at both at these levels. And Lance reads this tweet out and I could read it here in a second, but he's like, look, there might be some adjustment with Kate Anderson. Like as good as he did look in his debut, he does have much a lot of room to get better here at the big league level. 00:06:29 Speaker 2: I have the tweet pulled up. You want me to read it? Sure, he's essentially I don't want to bore people with all the numbers, but he's essentially highlighting Kate Anderson's four seamer and how it was measured in Double A versus his big league debut. The pure vello of it was about the same. It was a tenth of a mile an hour different between Double A and the big leagues. The actual spin rate on it, that's where you saw the drop off because it dropped off about three hundred rpm in terms of the spin rate, and then in terms of the vertical brain or the you know, the fastball rise as they call it, it was a drop off as well. And what Lance highlights is the physical baseball is different below triple A. He's a little surprised the Mariners had him totally skip that level, despite the Mariners often having pitchers skip that level. 00:07:16 Speaker 3: Huh. 00:07:17 Speaker 1: I wonder if there was anyone mentioning that he should go to triple A. 00:07:20 Speaker 2: Oh we did, hmm. 00:07:23 Speaker 1: Interesting. 00:07:24 Speaker 2: Anyways, I would just say that this was the one like, Look, I mean, we can't put that much stock into one star. We're gonna need to see a lot more. But I will note that for as unbelievable as kid's been in the miners and as unbelievable as he looked in spring training, the one question about Kate Anderson when he came into pro baseball was how would his fastball translate? Because you know, he had good off speed, you know, he could command it anywhere. You know, he was a competitor, you know he had a great mentality. But how good can the fastball be? Specifically, how much swing and miss can he truly get on a big league fastball, because that will be the make or break of how high his ceiling can go. If he does not get crazy swing and miss numbers on his fastball, he may just be a middle of the rotation starter who can really really be a bulk innings guy and work deep into games. If he does get swing and miss on the fastball, that's how he becomes of the Max Freed type and has the chance to compete for Cy Young's But I don't want to put too much into one start. We'll have to see a much larger sample of Kate Anderson to know what his fastball value is really going to be. But Lance is a smart guy, and he really knows pitching, and he really dives into the numbers, and when he's posting that stuff, there is some validity to it, and it's fair to talk about. And I would say that, yes, that will be something very interesting to watch with Kate as he continues to throw a big league BA baseball versus a double A baseball, and as he continues to make big league starts, which is again, how valuable can your fastball be? 00:08:57 Speaker 1: There is a reason why Ryan's loan for some people as rated higher than Kate Anderson because while Kate Anderson has the command, he has the innings under his belt, and he has all the off speed pitches. Ryan Sloan can throw one hundred miles an hour, and that is something that it doesn't seem like Kate Anderson has the ability to just replicate. He would have to add six miles an hour to his fast fell velocity, which is quite difficult once you've matured to the point that Kate Anderson has so like like. But that's just the fact, and Kate can't control that, which is why Kate needs to be so good with command. And we'll see how he adjusts once he faces more big league you know, more big league lineups. He also won't face a lineup quite that good. I believe the Cubs are the best lineup against left handed pitching in the BIGS. So of course that's going to be a pretty tough challenge for his uh for his first start, and outside of him being left in the game probably too long, he did his job, so I don't really think there's that much here to sit and like debate and talk about with Kate Anderson. The facts are true. He was long overdue to be debuting in the big leagues or get a promotion to a higher level, which he did. And then when he did, when he did pitch within the pitch count the Mariners have allotted him this season, which is seventy five and less pitches usually, he did great. 00:10:19 Speaker 2: So yeah, that's how it is agreed. And then and then Randy essentially saved the entire weekend for them. 00:10:28 Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, I honestly think the only reason, excuse me, the Mariners won two of three games against the Chicago Cubs this weekend is because of Randy Rose. Right now, Like he saves Saturday, oh, lead off home run, takes a run off the board for the Cubs, and then hits the walk off home run like Mariners are dead in the water on Saturday, like they're dead, but Randy with a really clutch swing with the Mariners down to their last out and Mariners haven't gotten enough clutch this season, so like great, Like that's what you want that you do want your staru stepping up and having big swings in big moments. He did. He did really save this weekend. Like you look at this weekend for the Mariners. They got outplayed by a run differential perspective. This entire week, the Mariners got outscored by thirty eight runs to the Brewers and Cups, which if you were to compare how those two teams play compared to how the Mariners play, it makes a ton of sense. But like Randy Rose, Rain has swung that from them being two games below five hundred this week to being five hundred this week. 00:11:32 Speaker 2: Well, not to mention that in that Cubs game he also hit a lead off home run and robbed a homer, right, I mean, that was his game. 00:11:40 Speaker 1: He only he only he only generated I think point six war in that game, where people were like, no, that's like, that's a one war game if I've ever seen one. 00:11:52 Speaker 2: It really is incredible. I mean that was his best game of the year, and it's incredible. Have you seen these stats floating around. I'm sure you have a bet out what Randy did in terms of home runs hit at the start versus end of a game. I mean, this was tweeted out. He said, there were there are two players in MLB history they hit a lead off home run, a walk off home run in the same game, and then a lead off home run in the next game. Both of them happened in the last week because PCA did it last week and then Randy did it this weekend. Like in the history of baseball, have been inspired in the history of baseball. 00:12:26 Speaker 1: It's pretty good. Yeah, as as as the great Dan Wilson would say, Lyle, you know, it's it's just baseball. 00:12:33 Speaker 2: Mm hmm, Yes, it is just baseball. Just how it was just baseball that Randy was even putting that situation in the first place, because Kate Anderson was out way too long into his start and facing the lineup a third time through. But maybe you want to say that. 00:12:49 Speaker 1: I guess the only other flowers I would give for the weekend was, like I thought Emerson Hancock did a good job bouncing back on Friday. I liked it. And then I'll give the Mariners this for this week. Like the Mariners have been punched down a couple times this week with frustrating bad or just blowout losses, and they've had some good responses. And I'm thinking on that Wednesday Brewers game, after getting absolutely blitzed on Tuesday twenty two to nothing, the Mariners came back and they won that Wednesday game. Like credit to them, and then here against and that first game against the Cubs, after losing that series to the Brewers in a series, maybe the Mariners at some point thought they could have won. They the Cubs come out and they score three runs in the top of the first inning, and you and I look at each other and go, oh boy, here we go again, hot team coming to town. It's over. But now the Mariners battled back and they won that game on Friday. But they responded to the Cubs and they took the lead right back within two innings. So that I saw a little fight this weekend a little bit. Yeah, there were some things that undid that fight, but the offense I thought stepped up in some key spots. 00:14:07 Speaker 2: I would agree. I would agree they look that is probably their second best series win of the year. That also speaks to volume to have little good. That also speaks volumes to how few good series wins they've had all season. But aside from the brave series win early in the year, probably their best series win. 00:14:25 Speaker 1: Now. All right, I do think we have plenty of negative things to talk about with this series as well. As I mentioned, I think we saw the exact same team this week, plus a few runs that we've seen pretty much this entire season. Before we get to these talking points, let's pause here for an ad. 00:14:44 Speaker 2: Let's compare two players. They're making similar contracts, but you have to pick one guy to be in your lineup. Player one hit three hundred. He had an eight to forty ops and a one forty one WRC plus, forty one percent better than the league average. Player two hit one eighty five. He had a five to sixty three OPS and a sixty three WRC plus. 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That's quints dot com slash marine Layer for free shipping and three hundred sixty five day returns quints dot com slash marine Layer. 00:17:35 Speaker 1: Where do we want to start with this? There's a number of different places we can go, but where do you want to lead off? 00:17:45 Speaker 2: You're putting me on the spot. I mean, the Mariners getting outscored by forty runs through the week is does that not speak for itself? 00:17:57 Speaker 1: It does that. The Mariner's are honestly made history this week. 00:18:03 Speaker 2: A lot well in a lot of ways, not just the Randy home run numbers. There's a couple Bryce Miller stats out there that we can get to. But yes, to go three and three and have a basically negative forty run differential, That's why sometimes there's bigger pictures here. 00:18:20 Speaker 1: The Mariners allowed sixty two runs this week and scored twenty four and went three and three. Yeah, does that suggest to you? Wow? What an amazing week, dude? 00:18:31 Speaker 2: The Mariners run differential Really to me, the Mariner's run differential for the year is closer to the Angels than it is the Astros and the Rangers. By the way, everybody in the Al West is negative by a ton in terms of run differential, but by runs. The Mariners are fifteen behind the Rangers. There's seventeen behind the Astros in terms of run differential, and they are nine ahead of the Angels. 00:18:57 Speaker 1: Someone could say to us, hey, look, guys, he's run differentials get inflated because at the end of these games, the Mariners are putting position players into pitch and the other team's running up the score. Okay, fair, but the Mariners are down by ten plus runs with real pitchers on the mound. I don't know how much I'm buying into. It's not as bad as it looks. No, it's it's that bad. Michael Rucker allowed what seven runs today? 00:19:24 Speaker 2: That's bad. 00:19:27 Speaker 1: Yeah, so sixty two to twenty four this week? 00:19:32 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't know how much. 00:19:33 Speaker 1: I just have a hard time getting excited about that. 00:19:35 Speaker 2: I don't know how much you want to say about Michael Rucker other than he was horrendous. I don't think there's much to dive into there. 00:19:42 Speaker 1: Oh, and the fact that the Mariner's bullpen was getting incredibly taxed this week because they're consistently not getting long enough starts from their starting pitchers, and now they're back doing a six man rotation because Kate Anderson's up, and. 00:19:59 Speaker 2: We'll see how long that lasts, because they have two potential injuries now lingering in this rotation that do not have to do with Kate Anderson. So we're gonna find out. 00:20:09 Speaker 1: Why don't we do some fun stats first and then we can get into the more heated part of this. The Mariners join an illustrious group of teams lyle to have two losses within a month of within the same month of seventeen plus runs. The last team to do this besides the twenty twenty six Mariners were the nineteen ninety three Philadelphia Phillies. How let me read that year again, nineteen thirty three. Oh, now, I say ninety three. I think you might have said ninety three the first time. Okay, Uh, nineteen thirty three Philadelphia Phillies. Yes, a long time ago. 00:20:57 Speaker 2: Yes, that's a problem. 00:21:00 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I would say that's a problem mile Yeah, it's it's it's not good that you get blown out. Bad teams get blown out. That's why the run differential of all the bad teams are so inflated. They more often than not lose by a lot of runs, and especially since the start of June, the Maritors have lost by a lot of runs, a lot, and now it's just kind of getting extrapolated. 00:21:27 Speaker 2: Yes, yes it is. Are there other more fun stats you want to read? Or is it time to keep moving through this thing? 00:21:34 Speaker 1: I mean the Mariners are one in ten in Bryce Miller's last eleven starts, they're zero to eight in his last eight. He has a seven to one to eight ERA and those eight starts with thirty strikeouts, twenty walks, and ten home runs. I don't think that's the three two one you would look for in a starting pitcher. 00:21:50 Speaker 2: Oh well, I thought we were gonna say talk about Bryce in the rotation for in a little bit. But sure, if you're just getting in numbers. 00:21:56 Speaker 1: And you want some fun, yeah, I have fun stats? Are fun stats? Bryce Miller the only pitcher in the modern era to have his team lose by fifteen or more runs in back to back starts. 00:22:08 Speaker 2: That's that's the craziest. But who are these fun for? You said these are fun stats? Who are these fun for? You? Me? Are listeners? 00:22:15 Speaker 1: People who like stats? 00:22:17 Speaker 2: Well, there, but they're not stats that are very positive. I never said they were positive, you just said they were fun. Yeah, fun for stats? 00:22:27 Speaker 1: Nerds. Wow, and whenever something has happened for the first time in major league history, you think. 00:22:33 Speaker 2: It's fun, sicko fun. 00:22:36 Speaker 1: But sure, yeah, maybe maybe sicko fun. I'll close it out with one more Bryce Miller's stat And the last two Bryce Miller starts, the Mariners have been outscored forty one to two. Can I read that number again? Forty one to two in his last two starts. In the last four Bryce Miller starts, the Mariners have been outscored sixty two to seven. 00:23:00 Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, that one honestly rings about more than the last two. The last four sixty two to seven. 00:23:09 Speaker 1: I'd say the Mariners aren't doing a whole lot. And Bryce Miller starts recently. 00:23:14 Speaker 2: Not on Bryce's side, not on the offensive side, not on the decision making side, none of it, absolutely, none of it. 00:23:21 Speaker 1: No, So that's some fun stats. Why don't we talk about Dan Wilson mile? 00:23:30 Speaker 2: Oh? Why don't we? We delayed it long enough? Sure, Why don't we talk about Dan Wilson's managerial decisions? 00:23:38 Speaker 1: I think this week So the biggest criticism of Dan this weekend came in the fifth inning, fifth inning or sixth thing fifth inning, one of it. I think it was the fifth inning, uh, the middle innings of both the Saturday and Sunday games, where he was leaving both Kate Anderson and Bryce Miller in the game way too long. Yeah, and ended up costing the Mariners runs each time. 00:24:03 Speaker 2: It was in the sixth inning of the Kate Anderson start. 00:24:06 Speaker 1: It was six I was gonna say, sixth inning of Kate Anderson's start, and then fifth inning of the Bryce Miller start. Yes, which and both guys. So the stat for Kate Anderson if you're curious the process behind this. So, the Mariners have been very much monitoring Kate Anderson's innings all season long. He has not thrown more than eighty pitches in a start all season. He generally stays around the seventy five pitch mark. When he started the sixth inning on Saturday, he was at seventy two pitches. He allowed one run in five innings on a solo home run. Generally, given those rules, I just explained to you, you would have thought that the Maritors would have chocked it up as a win for Kate Anderson his debut, and you weren't going to try and pick up extra out of Kate Anderson. But not only did that happen in the Mariners leave him in the sixth inning, but built the top of the lineup for the Cubs up in that sixth inning and they made him pay. So Kate stays out there longer, adds a couple more runs to his tally. And then Bryce Miller, I mean, just totally self destructed on on today on Sunday, he walked seven guys and Dan Wilson let him walk the bases loaded a second time in his start and still left him in an extra batter or two for taking him out. 00:25:31 Speaker 2: Well, and then he led up an additional run. It went from five to two to then letting Bryce give up another run to put it a little bit like to essentially put it out of hand. It's a four run game at this point, all the momentum swinging against you, and that's not even a mention. Then deciding to get your bullpen up after this game has essentially been decided and start using leverage arms when you're down four runs. Yeah, by the way, I don't know what like if we're just talking about both of these, we were talking about the Kate Anderson decision and we're talking about the Bryce Miller decision. We can go one by one, but we went back and watched through all this because since we were at a wedding this weekend and a lot of events, we didn't get to sit and really watch these games thoroughly through. But listen to this what happened in the Kate Anderson story. I mean, you guys know you were watching, but just to go through it again, Kate Anderson was at seventy three pitches through five innings. The mirrors have been very, very strict with the innings limit or the end the pitch count. They don't really let him go past eighty at all because they're trying to preserve him. He once had Tommy John in high school. They're trying to build up his workload, et cetera. On Saturday, Caid's at seventy three pitches through five innings. You have multiple relievers warming up for the sixth. You decide to let kid go back out there, and you're getting like the meat of the order. You're getting PCA and then say it and then Alex Bregman. You go up against PCA, who barely missed a homer. So Kate starts at sixth inning at this point is in five and one left on left, like, okay, I guess barely missed a homer. He ends up doubling and then you get left, I mean, and then you get lucky because PCA made the mistake on the base paths, right, that was the game where he made the mistake. 00:27:20 Speaker 1: Yes, because then he got picked off right after that, right, so then or not picked off, he got doubled off right after that. 00:27:27 Speaker 2: Right, so then you let him pitch to Saya where he hit an absolute rocket at the third baseman, and sure, that's where PCA made the base running mistake, and it gets doubled off. But like you can tell, Kate's starting to labor. He's starting to get hit real hard. This is the meat of the Cubs order. The game is still within arm's length, like, the game is still very like again, it can swing either way at this point. But after seeing a near homer hit by PCA and then a Saya Suzuki absolute rocket which you got essentially bailed out on, now you're facing Alex and you're seeing that, Okay, you've got relievers up. It's time to make a change. Kid's first started. You're having him see a line up the third time through and he never throws as many pitches this year, and he lets him face Bregman left on right because why is why? After what you've seen in the sixth inning, is this going down? And then what happens? Oh yeah, Bregman takes him into the pen like he hits a homer. So that's three straight ridiculously hard hit balls that kid's given up in the sixth thinning. And then if that's not good enough to each like, if that's not good enough, then just almost for shits and gigs, he lets him stay in to face Michael Bush, maybe because it's left on left and then Bush takes some yard two. What are we doing, dude? 00:28:47 Speaker 1: I don't know, I need don't know. I've never seen like I've definitely seen. There's been feedback from a lot of media members surrounding the Seattle Mariners about the managerial decisions. Maybe it's because that was more reliant on Twitter this weekend for my Mariners information than I am usually since that was most of what we had available to us over the weekend. But man, I mean, when we're talking about like openly questioning decisions in the moment multiple days in a row in the same scenarios. It was about as harsh ap as it could get. 00:29:28 Speaker 2: Oh dude, he was getting torched a week go bye by every corner of you can go to, like the most professional people you know on Mariners Twitter who do this as a job and career. 00:29:40 Speaker 1: To the people who just tweet, and everyone's like, what the fuck is going on here? 00:29:45 Speaker 2: Oh you mean you mean the fringe lunatics? 00:29:50 Speaker 1: Yes, how are they doing this weekend? They might be uh, they might uh, they might see the marionn after this weekend and feel reassured. 00:30:03 Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like they've probably didn't feel They're probably feeling reassured for a while now. I'm gonna be real, But. 00:30:11 Speaker 1: Like, dude, it did what did the common thing with Dan Wilson did in both of these decisions for Bryce Miller and Kate Anderson. If you forgot about Sunday's fifth inning, so Bryce had already walked the bases loaded and then gave up a grand slam with two outs to Ian happened the third inning, So like that sucked, But you all, the Mariners running a six man rotation can't yank Bryce Miller out of the game. In the third inning, so you leave him out there. He goes through a one, two, three, fourth, and then once the fifth rolls around with no outs, he walks the bases loaded again, and then Bryce Miller is facing Alex Bregman for the third time with the bases loaded and nobody out that right there, with the game being six' to two at this, point that right there seems like a scenario where you would have someone immediately, knowing especially knowing What bryce admitted to after the game that he doesn't feel completely healthy in that we'll get to that here at a, second but knowing that information and knowing That Alex fragman is one of the cubs two or three best, Players Bryce miller with the bases, loaded clearly laboring clearly not having it and not not being more aggressive to put someone in to try to snuff that. Out is it's. Bad it's just it's it's a lack of aggressiveness that's. Costing and What dan will The Dan wilson's big problem is that sometimes he's too aggressive and it comes back and bites. Him sometimes he's not aggressive enough and it comes back to bite. Him and none of it comes from a consistent identity of how he's managing these baseball, games where if we're just sitting here like watching watching these games and how they're un what this weekend shows is the inability to process the game fast enough and think ahead in the moment to see what will happen if you don't act on these. Decisions and The mariners probably should have lost two of three games to The cubs because of those. 00:32:17 Speaker 2: DECISIONS i just don't know how many times we can have this ridiculous. Conversation is there something we can say this time that's gonna be any different than the other million times we've had to dissect these awful decisions that he makes during the, Game like what do you want us to? Say it's ridiculous that it's still happening at this, point and what he is proving time in and time out is not only does it cost them a handful at at the very least of games this, year probably more than. THAT i would say it's close to two handfuls of games he's cost them this. Year but for those that are still latching on to hope about this team making the playoffs and getting into the field In, OCTOBER i got bad news forget the on field place and all the struggling stars and the injuries that the team's endured similar to last, Year like you ain't going anywhere With Dan wilson making these. Decisions you're just. Not The mariners got as far as any team in franchise history has ever gone last, year and then what happened all gets away by a managerial decision that never in a million years should have. Happened, Like you're, like this team is not going anywhere with him making these, decisions and it's not changing because he's clearly proven in two years that he doesn't know how to change. 00:33:36 Speaker 1: It and even the play on the, field if you're gonna try and get around, that like the team itself also is just just doesn't look like it's good. Enough it doesn't look like the process on every level of the organization is in the place that would lead you to believe this team will. WIN I i would to stand by the FACT i didn't see anything different this weekend to prove, otherwise because every even the positive things that happened for The, mariners you can very easily poke holes and how The mariners went about doing, it. 00:34:17 Speaker 2: Because aside from a huge swing from your One All star this year and the bottom of the ninth, inning what was? Different like If randy just flies out in that, situation what are we sitting here talking? About same old, story same old, song and dance as the old song. Goes, YEAH i mean the whole difference is your One All star put on a huge swing in crunch, time and otherwise it's about the same old thing from the rest of your, roster it really, is and especially the same old thing from your. Manager, because by the, way if you even want to get past the bullpen decisions and back to all the culture talk we've had to have this, year well On, sunday Here's julio. Again you want to talk about The mariners getting blown out for the second time in a. Week for the second time in a, week you Have Julio rodriguez costing his team by doing lord knows what in the outfield because it wasn't a misplayed, Ball it wasn't a physical, error wasn't it wasn't a physical error on a bad. Read there was a pitchclock violation at the start of an inning On sunday because he couldn't get a ball out from warm ups in the outfield to the bullpen fast. Enough like that's like forget even a metal, mistake because metal mistakes are like the bad base running and the defense and things like that that we've talked about all. Year with the sloppy, PLAY i don't even know what that. IS i, mean that's in the same bucket as chucking a baseball into the stands In milwaukee with less than three, Outs like you couldn't get the ball into the bullpen fast enough before the inning. Started, now if you watch the replay and slow, mo there is an argument to be made that maybe it was somebody else's, fault that somebody else would also share some responsibility for not wrapping up a warm ups vast. Enough, Yeah randy or somebody in the bullpen that MAYBE i don't, know if somebody threw an extra baseball out there or something like that And julio had to go out and get. It but, regardless like this all fills the same narrative of unfocused. Baseball whether It's, julio whether It's, randy whether it's somebody in the, BULLPEN i, mean same, thing different. 00:36:34 Speaker 1: Day WHEN i saw that that, HAPPENED i just. Laugh i'm, like there's no way this just happened. Again mariners lose by seventeen plus runs for the second time this, week and they make just get, it another play that makes you just smack yourself above the. Head i'm gonna say the quote. Again The mariners lead the league in plays that would get you benched by your high school baseball. Coach it just rings true every single week and it keeps. 00:37:10 Speaker 2: Happening there's gonna be some accountability for. 00:37:13 Speaker 1: THAT i mean as well, know because When julio chucked the ball into the stands in the middle of the, week where was he next game hit. 00:37:22 Speaker 2: And clean out and play in center? Field? 00:37:24 Speaker 1: Yep and you, know at this, point like what do you have to, lose especially With, julio if you want to Hold julio, accountable what do you have to? Lose he's been. STRUGGLING a day off isn't even the worst thing in the world for, Him so, yeah you give him a Day but also, like, hey, man like sometimes you mix things, up but this is what accountability looks like for. 00:37:49 Speaker 2: It And i'm, sorry not only the accountability, part and not only the idea more so not only the idea of the day, off BUT i don't see what the issue, is and finally somebody's, saying, Yeah julio's sitting, Today we're not gonna, sit sit and tolerate unfocused baseball. Anymore, like what is the? Harm, seriously what is the? 00:38:13 Speaker 1: HARM i DON'T i? 00:38:16 Speaker 2: MEAN i? Mean and you, Know Dan wilson's not gonna Say god, forbid because, again chalk it up to the whole ice cream for breakfast mantra we've talked about on other episodes that we've heard get thrown around a time or. Two that's what it. 00:38:30 Speaker 1: Is perhaps there is a fear that the coaching staff is unequipped to handle an unhappy, player. 00:38:37 Speaker 2: An unhappy high paid, player. 00:38:40 Speaker 1: An unhappy any, player but especially a high paid player because they have a lot more sway in the, clubhouse and especially if the clubhouse is as we think it, is which is pretty much all player. Run, well if all of a sudden said players are, unhappy then that's not really. Good because the coaches aren't in charge of the. Clubhouse THEN i could go off the. 00:39:03 Speaker 2: Rails, okay but could it be worse than where it's at right? Now? 00:39:08 Speaker 1: No oh, no, nope, AGAIN i Like i'm soft forering a potential. 00:39:12 Speaker 2: Reason how many teams would put up with two plays like that in a, Week like if that one On sunday this past day was Truly julio's, fault like twice in a week that. Happens, again that's not even like a base running. Mistake it's a total just brain Blank when that can't, happen, WELL. 00:39:39 Speaker 1: I wouldn't expect anything to change at this. Point It's august twenty. Fourth this is what this team. Is this is what people are going to get the rest of the. Season and this is exactly why we're not really. Believers there's there's nothing to make us change their mind on. This nothing has. Changed even when they're winning, games it looks the. Same and what we, see even if it might eventually make the, playoffs is a team that currently sits seven games below five hundred yeather three games back of the division would be the winner of this division could be below five hundred this, season because that's how bad this division. Is that doesn't mean that all, right like we're good. Enough, NO i don't think that's the. CASE i. 00:40:26 Speaker 2: Don't, yeah it's watching These Dan wilson manage baseball games just drives me off the deep. End it really. Does how does this still go on at this point in crunch. Time, seriously especially with a debut Like Kate. Anderson's it's it's. Insanity it actually actually it's literally insanity because it's the same things happening over and over. 00:40:55 Speaker 1: Again you, know you would think to all of our people that When lyle AND i take a weekend away from the, ballpark especially a home, weekend that we would get to unplug a little bit and focus on some other things in our lives and celebrate a married couple which was really an amazing ceremony for a couple of our very close. Friends, like, oh it was all. Great you, think like we would just be able to disassociate focus on some important. Things would anyone like to guess What lyle's two most said words the entire weekend, Were. 00:41:30 Speaker 2: Oh i'm sure it's really hard to figure Out Dan wilson. Too by the, way a group of people a bit are Not mariners, fans like we have a bunch of friends who are die hard sports, fans and since it's such a close group of friends of, ours everybody's invested in each other's sports teams, sometimes so shit talking can go on and friends can dunk on other friends when their teams. Lose but, LIKE i, mean it, was it's at the point where my friends are, like you, Say Dan, wilson you're ripping a shot every time you say, it because it's it's been two days AND i Think i've heard his name two hundred times out of your. 00:42:04 Speaker 1: Mouth, yeah we need, It we need a. Break don't we all need a? 00:42:10 Speaker 2: Break? 00:42:12 Speaker 1: Dude like season ends in a month and a. 00:42:16 Speaker 2: Week you know you want to you want you want to hear something kind actually not kind. Of you want to hear an absurd. Statement And i'm gonna say, it there's a part of me that's ready for the lockout because there's part of me that needs such a just metal reset and like a nice break from like just Everything mariners, related like no offseason, moves no, news, nothing just a Total Aaron rodgers darkness, retreat black. Mindset that's. It like, yeah and it's crazy we're saying these things when they win two of. Three but, again they will not go anywhere in a postseason run With. Dan With Dan wilson making decisions like. This you saw it last. Year it nearly cost them The Tiger. Series it did cost them The Blue Jays, series and you're seeing it right happen right now in twenty twenty, six like they will not go anywhere with him making decisions like. 00:43:15 Speaker 1: This, well i'd say the other big storyline from this, weekend one last thing before we wrap this, up is what we saw again From Bryce millard On, sunday which was another uncompetitive. Start he's got an earra in his last eight starts of seven point one point eight and The mariners have lost every single one of those. Games AND i said this last time he made a. Start i'll say it. AGAIN i don't know how he makes another start for this. Team it just doesn't seem like it's there right. Now and, if especially if you're trying to chase a postseason, SPOT i don't know how you can trot him out, there especially when The mariners are running a six man rotation right, now and you. Don't you don't have to run him out there because he's looked fine for two, innings but once his pitch count gets up, there that's when things start really going off the. Rails SO i just DON'T i can't see. IT i don't know how you could justify putting him back out there for another. 00:44:12 Speaker 2: Start, well and then he, admitted As Adam jude was talking about On, sunday that he is not fully, healthy, which if you want to just chalk up yet Another mariner's, thing which is part of what's stemming me to, say there's a part of me that's almost looking forward to the. Lockout and let me be very clear WHEN i say looking forward to the. LOCKOUT i do not want games to be missed next. Year but there's a part of me that would actually be okay if everything's just on hold Until march and then you just figure it out In march and then you go from. There so like the Usual mariners, winner it's just it's just. Dark it's just, dark like, nothing and then you pick up In. March but, yeah, man like how Much? Okay so so WHAT i was going WHERE i was going with this is how how many times are we gonna have to talk about The mariners and how they've dealt with injuries this year because this team essentially refuses to use the injured. List If Bryce miller's, hurt shouldn't he get some time? Off and by the, way that only pairs with what we're now seeing With brian wu who's got a shoulder. Issue which has led to him being pushed back a, start and then he threw a bullpen this, weekend and now they're, saying we'll see how he feels in the next couple days to see if he has to miss a start or. Not, again, like where is the ten? Dail why wouldn't you just Put Brian wu on the, tendail have him skip a, start and go from. There again with the refusal to use the injured. List you want another, Example Taylor ward over the last couple weeks missed seven days in a row with an, injury but, no they didn't use the injured. List they left him on the, roster didn't play, them and as a, result you just were essentially playing with twenty five guys in twelve position players instead of twenty six and. Thirteen makes no. Sense and then you have col playing through, injuries you Have naylor playing through. Injuries you have you had regularly playing through injuries before he got hurt and ended his. Year now you Have miller And wu going through. Injuries LIKE i know guys played through. Injuries, OH i didn't even Say Colt, Emerson, LIKE i know guys go through. Injuries but at what point do you use your injured list to get reinforcements on your. 00:46:24 Speaker 1: Roster the justification before this would be that the replacement level players aren't as good as an injured starter that you, Have but in this case For, Bryce colt And Cal, rawley is not the case at. All LIKE i was as you were, TALKING i was looking this. Up So Bryce miller Since july third has been the least valuable picture In Major League baseball by War so, clearly if he's, hurt he's not fully. HEALTHY i think a replacement level pitcher would be better Than Bryce. Miller, yeah he's a seven to one EIGHT, ERA a seven to one EIGHT. Era Jonathan diaz could probably pitch to AN era better than seven to one. 00:47:12 Speaker 2: Eight that's. 00:47:13 Speaker 1: Right Cal raley this season for the entire, year And i'll say he's been hurt most of the, season just a. Guestimation he's the third WORST ops among players with three hundred plate appearances or. More, yeah that's. THAT i wouldn't call that toughen it out through. INJURY i just call that really really really really really bad. BASEBALL i, mean and then and Then Colt emerson since the start Of july is a bottom twelve. Hitter In Major League. Baseball these are things that you should be able to improve. On it's not Gonna you're not gonna get all star production from these positions when these guys are. Hurt but clearly playing through injury is hurting your, team and it's hurting your team in the AREAS i guess depending on the situation that you need the. Most you've really needed Cal rawley's back this. Season it's been nowhere to be. Found Cole, emerson for the longest, time looked like a deer in headlights of the, plate and it was only after the fact he admitted get an injury and try to tough it out in the first. Place and then you Have Bryce, miller where at this point your rotation is not great and you need every good start you can, get And Bryce miller has been the opposite of. Good so playing through injuries hasn't really worked for them this. Year so at some POINT i feel like you got to put your foot down and put some guys. 00:48:39 Speaker 2: Away but, now what are you going to do with this, rotation because if some of these, guys whether It's miller Or, woo need a stint on the il and The mariners are also saying that they won't Get kate off this week long rest in rotation that he's on where he just pitches once a, week which was also a report this. Weekend what is your plan? Here how are you gonna deal With Bryce miller And Brian wo dealing with injuries and not wanting to throw kid more than once a week and filling every spot in the? 00:49:07 Speaker 1: ROTATION i Don't they're not gonna achieve all, That that's the. Answer they have unrealistic. Goals if they think they can achieve all of. That Either Bryce miller And Brian will are gonna stay in the rotation and not be fully healthy this, year Or Kate anderson is going to start pitching every five days like everyone, else like they could piggyback, again which For BRYCE i, MEAN i guess you have no. Choice and For, kate if you're gonna keep his innings count, down, Fine but then what If Brian wo's not totally healthy as? Well, well then then you lose out all over the. 00:49:49 Speaker 2: Place, well and forget the piggyback With. Bryce what if he's just not healthy enough to keep? Going what if he needs the? Il what are you going to? Do the trade deadline is. Over Ryan sloan is probably not coming up this year to pitch significant innings in the. Rotation maybe you'll be in the. BULLPEN i don't know about the. Rotation he's still building up his workload. 00:50:13 Speaker 1: Too Then caid's gonna have to figure it out and The mariners add an extra, reliever which also which makes again like the situation The mariners are currently in for the next week with a, overworked shorthanded bullpen and a six man rotation where not everyone is healthy in it a bit of a head, scratcher like again with a bit of like it seems like miss like misaligned priorities at this current state of the season where you're trying to check every single box you can for what you want to achieve and managing to put your team in an incredibly difficult position because of. It and that and those boxes you're trying to, check you're Keeping Kate anderson on a pitching once every seven days or once a week, essentially where you Want bryce to still pitch in your, Rotation you Want Brian wood to pitch in your rotation because you just don't have guys currently in your farm system that will step up and take those spots. 00:51:12 Speaker 2: Immediately, no by the, way if you want to get into one more yet Another Dan wilson bullpen blunder this. Weekend Adam jude tweeted it, out and he's totally right because speaking to this shortened bullpen and using a six man, rotation it was here On sunday When dan decided to start using leverage relievers when they're down by four, runs And adam says. This he, says bullpen options are limited for The mariners right now because of the sixth man starting. ROTATION i get, that but Asking farrera to throw one plus innings here down four runs now five the day before facing The phillies lefty heavyweights is a bigger. Sin he is. Correct Jose ferrara threw an inning and two thirds On sunday when they were already down by four. Runs you Have Kyle schwarber And Bryce harper and a bunch Of Philly he's coming into town this week And brandon marsh who all are lefties and all are big. Bats and when you're gonna need your high leverage lefty relievers this week in games that if you're gonna, Win i'm are likely gonna be. Close, Well Jose ferrera is certainly down tomorrow or here On monday against The. Phillies and the fact that he just went an inning in two thirds in some meaningless game here On sunday when you're already losing by a ton and he threw a total of what was the total that for threw twenty five? Pitches, dude there's a chance he's down the next two. DAYS i, mean you just burned through one of your leverage lefties in a meaningless game when you have The phillies coming to. Town when we, say when. 00:52:41 Speaker 1: We tap the sign, again why we're not buying in right? There they haven't. 00:52:48 Speaker 2: Changed they The mariners will not go anywhere With Dan wilson making decisions like. This if you are somebody who is hopeful about them getting into the, playoffs that's. Fine but the decisions keep going like this and they have not changed in two, years especially with the way the team's played on the. Field they're not going anywhere because, look when decisions get tight and games get close in the, postseason managers play a real. Factor. Man and When dan had to step up last year and a lot of those, moments, man did it blow up in his. Face Kerry Carpenter game one against The, tigers, Obviously game seven against The Blue, jays or a couple. 00:53:26 Speaker 1: Others, yeah and they might make the playoffs because this division. Sucks every team in The American League west just below five hundred right. Now this division is an absolute joke of a. Division, Dude they're gonna make the. Playoffs we're not resetting expectations for the team in terms of what's a success and what's a. Failure just because The mariners could potentially win eighty one games and make the postseason this year doesn't mean, that, oh if they make the divisional, round that's, fine because this team's not as. Good, no that's not how this. Goes by the, way what The mariners expectation is is you either make The World series or the season is a, disappointment because that's what you told us at the beginning of the, season and that's how this roster construction and belief in this team has been pitched to. Us so if you don't achieve, that that is a disappointment and that's a failure of a. 00:54:26 Speaker 2: Season and by the, way there's thirty one games left to. Go you're talking about The mariners being a potential eighty one win. TEAM i just want to give everybody some. Perspective if The mariners win eighty one, games that means that despite having The, phillies The Blue, jays and The Red sox upcoming for nine, games The mariners will go nineteen twelve in their final thirty. ONE i don't know how many times they've gone nineteen twelve this. Season it hasn't been a. 00:54:53 Speaker 1: LOT i don't think they've gone nineteen and twelve this. 00:54:56 Speaker 2: Season that's to get to eighty one. 00:54:59 Speaker 1: Win it might not even need eighty one, wins, DUDE i, mean it's it's. 00:55:04 Speaker 2: Absurd The astros in first place not only are below five hundred as we're sitting here recorded recording, this but they blew a six nothing lead and lost to The aids today On. 00:55:14 Speaker 3: Sunday, yeah it's a, bad, bad bad, division which will tell you all you need to know about This mariners team, that yeah they could win the, Division yeah they could make the. 00:55:27 Speaker 1: Playoffs but context always always matters in scenarios like. This so before you come at us for being dumers and not believing and all the all this all this, stuff LIKE i implore people to like watch what they're seeing on the, field and ask, yourself DO i believe WHAT i am? Seeing And i'll tell YOU i. DON'T i don't see. It even even with winning two of three games this, weekend things have not. 00:55:59 Speaker 2: Changed, look, Guys i'd like to think most of you know us well enough by now to know that what we say on here is, real and we're gonna shoot people. Straight we're not, Lying we're not up playing. Things we are telling people how we genuinely. Feel and by the, way it benefits everybody if everybody's just more, positive because that's what's more. Fun when everybody has genuine belief in the, team that's what rallies everybody. Together but we are not going to pull the wall over people's. Eyes we are not going to lie to. People we are not gonna just play up emotions and tell people we're feeling something we don't. Feel we shoot, you guys, straight and we have tried to abide by that ever since we started this. Thing and we are telling you what we honestly, feel the honest, truth and it. Is they have yet to have a stretch of games where they have really gotten us to say something looks different for the. Better they're not, there even after winning a series against The. Cubs that's why we said this is a bit complicated at the start of this. Podcast for everything we've highlighted in this, episode it's very, complicated and for reasons that aren't all that. Great, yeah you're and your mic'soft. 00:57:12 Speaker 1: Teach see it's way, too way too late at. 00:57:16 Speaker 2: Night, yeah so for THOSE i guess we should have started with this at the start of the. Pod the reason we're sitting here recording this, late for anybody, curious is we were supposed to land at about ten, tonight and then we would have recorded, it you, know a little, later but like normal. Enough it would have been like an eleven pm recording and we would have gone to bed at a normal enough. Hour we were delayed two and a half hours At. Lax lax is a miserable, airport let me tell. You and as a result of, that we get back at one thirty in the, morning and we still have a podcast to. Do and you guys don't care about whether our flight gets the late or. Not you guys want to podcast out in the. Morning you guys are looking for a podcast out in the, morning and we're gonna give it to, you but it did require us recording very. Late. 00:58:02 Speaker 1: Yeah, WELL i think there are probably some people in The East coast right now wondering where their podcast. 00:58:06 Speaker 2: Is. 00:58:07 Speaker 1: UH i think we should probably probably gott to wrap this up and get this. Out it is three to, nine we're nine minutes. 00:58:15 Speaker 2: Late, Well i'm sorry to the people on The East. Coast we will do our, best but hopefully you guys bear it through. It maybe The mariners will turn things against The philly and we'll. SEE i, mean they're Getting wheeler and they're Getting. Lizardo let's just. See let's just let them play it. 00:58:29 Speaker 1: Out we'll. 00:58:30 Speaker 2: Talk we'll talk about it when the series. Ends for, now that wraps. About that just about wraps up this edition of The Marine layer. Podcast you guys know the. Drawl if you want to listen to the full form, podcast you can do so wherever you get your audio. Pods make sure to download these. Episodes if you're, listening go rate and review five. Stars make sure if you're watching on YouTube you go hit. Subscribe you can also find us at our website marine layerpod dot, com where you can find our, podcast merch our, episodes Our. Patreon it's all there and then you can find us on social. Media we're on every platform and we're posting content every day At Marine Layer. Pod that's T J, lyle it's always We thank you guys for tuning. In we'll talk to you s