Episode 452: Reacting To The Mariners Losing The First Game Of The Series To The A's + Mailbag

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number 452 of the Marine Layer podcast. The Mariners lose the first game of the series against the A's. It's also a mailbag episode, so open it up and answer your best listener questions. 00:00:12 Speaker 2: Your guys' reminder, before we start these podcasts, make sure to go do us a big favor. Go download these podcasts if you're listening. Make sure to go rate and review, and please leave it five stars. If you're watching on YouTube, hit that subscribe button in front of you. You can also find everything on our website, which is at marinelayerpod.com. Patreon, merch, episodes, it's all there. Then find us on social media. We're everywhere, at marinelayerpod. 00:00:35 Speaker 1: Let's get it rolling. 00:00:36 Speaker 2: Let's get it rolling. 00:00:49 Speaker 1: And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network. Recording here on Thursday evening, September 3rd, 2026 Mariners fashion. Good series win against an actual playoff team. Come home against the worst team in Major League Baseball and strike out 18 times while going four for 16 with runners in scoring position. Just a special. I mean. 00:01:18 Speaker 2: That was a little bit of a word salad. You didn't even add in, by the way, that they gave up seven runs on 14 hits to a lineup without Kurtz, without Jacob Wilson, without Tyler Soderstrom, without Brent Rooker, and without Shea Langeleers. That would have been even more of a word salad. I would just say this, Tiege. The Mariners come off a strong series win on the road against the Boston Red Sox, get back home against the A's, and have a hashtag TOT. You know what I mean by that? 00:01:46 Speaker 1: What do you mean by that? 00:01:47 Speaker 2: You don't know TOT? You can't figure out the abbreviation? Oh, oh, oh, yeah. 00:01:53 Speaker 1: That took way too long. Tough one tonight. 00:01:56 Speaker 2: Tough one tonight. Tough one tonight. 00:01:59 Speaker 1: Though Dan did say tough one to start the series. 00:02:02 Speaker 2: And why do we know that? Because we were absolutely seated for that press conference after the loss. We actually delayed the start of this recording, even though we're sitting here at about 11 o'clock recording. We waited till the press conference was over. Why? Why? because we do the Lord's work and we are men of the people. We must report on here to all of you. Like it's an, it's an absolute intangible that you guys know whether or not Dan Wilson said tough one after a loss. And I can proudly sit here and report that after doing our digging and sitting down and watching through the Dan Wilson press conference, he in fact did say tough one after the loss. 00:02:38 Speaker 1: You'll laugh. I was actually scrambling a little bit because I accidentally clicked out of it. And when you click out of it on Fubo and the game's over, it no longer suggests you watch it. So I had to like scramble and dig to find the post game show to turn it back on. So I didn't miss it. That's how dedicated I am to this. 00:02:58 Speaker 2: People need people need good reporting in this world. And we are here to report. He did say tough one. 00:03:04 Speaker 1: Like I've never, never in my life scrambled to turn on the Mariners post game show. Not once, but I did tonight because I just had to hear it. And I don't know how many more of these we're going to get. So you gotta, you gotta cherish every one of them. 00:03:18 Speaker 2: I mean, teach there's 21, 21 games left, left in the year. 00:03:24 Speaker 1: Yep. 00:03:24 Speaker 2: 21 games left. 00:03:27 Speaker 1: Understanding what was in front of them and that the Rangers and Astros both won tonight. So the Mariners are now six games back of the Astros and essentially five games back from the Rangers because they have a tiebreaker. The Mariners put out that kind of performance tonight. They struck out 18 times against the worst pitching staff in baseball tonight. I don't care that they were on a flight. You know who else was also on a long flight across multiple time zones without a day off coming into this game today? 00:04:02 Speaker 2: The A's. Yep. 00:04:05 Speaker 1: I heard Aaron Goldsmith and Ryan Healy in the booth. I understand they have a job to do. They were talking about, man, guys gotten really late last night. Goldie is on that plane. He knows exactly how late they got back last night. It's like, man, it's just really hard to keep up energy during the game for these guys. And, you know, it could be dragging on them a little bit. They've done this all year. There's never energy for the full game. They come out strong in the first inning, and then they get overpowered by a AAA pitching staff and strike out 18 times against the easiest team on your schedule. 00:04:40 Speaker 2: Yeah. Guys, the A's just came from Dallas. A flight from Dallas to Seattle is four plus hours. I know it's probably five or so back from Boston. Apples and oranges here. It's not that different. 00:04:56 Speaker 1: The Mariners, I would say, are probably about three hours behind the A's in terms of when they got in, I would guess. 00:05:02 Speaker 2: That's probably right. And they started a little late in Boston. But again, you can't use excuses like that in September when you're eight, now nine games under. 500, and playing a literal AAA lineup. Guys, it would be one thing. It would still be a tough look if the Mariners played like that against the A's in general, but we know if the A's had all their offensive stalwarts in the lineup and they had their full rotation healthy, not that their rotation's elite by any stretch, but if they had Severino and they had all their guys full on and healthy, it's a team that's probably at least in the win total that would end the season somewhere in the mid-70s to maybe low-80s if everything went right. Like, If everything had gone right for the A's this year, they would have been in this wildcard race. But no, you're like, and even if they had lost to that team, that still would have been a hashtag tough one to swallow in early September when you're eight under 500, now nine. But to do what you just did against an A's team that is literally running out a lineup of half AAA hitters. No, there's no excuses. I don't care if it was a long flight. I don't care if it was a delayed takeoff. I don't care if, you got a bad night's sleep. I mean, no, you got to show up and beat that team period. And you're not doing that. 00:06:24 Speaker 1: It's, it's also the point of the season where every team's doing this. Everyone's been traveling for five months. Everyone has been grinding away for five months. Like everyone's tired. Everyone's hurt. And, and everyone's fatigued. It happens to everybody. 00:06:42 Speaker 2: And yes, the Mariners travel is more extensive than the rest of the league. But again, you can't be using excuses like that at this point. I just, I'm not going to listen to it. 00:06:53 Speaker 1: No, no. And again, there's just too many like bad things that continue to pop up. It's the same things we see over and over again, where the offense will pick something to just be atrocious at. How in the world did they strike out 18 times against this pitching staff? 00:07:11 Speaker 2: I mean... What's-his-name came into the game with a 7 ERA. Perkins. His ERA was over 7, or at least over, not over 7, well over 6 entering this start. He's been one of the worst arms in the league. And you strike out 18 times, and if the Perkins start isn't tough enough, Because in fairness, they did staff it a little bit today, the A's, because they had Perkins go three and then Blewett go two and then Roy Croft go just under two and then Medina win an inning and a third. Let's just combine it all. The A's have been the worst bullpen in Major League Baseball this year. 18 strikeouts. Perkins got you seven times. Blewett got you four. Roy Croft got you two. Medina got you three. And Hogan Harris comes in to slam the door in the ninth who's their closer and struck out two of the three hitters. Oh, sorry. 00:08:05 Speaker 1: And by the way, pitching staff in baseball correct. 00:08:08 Speaker 2: Worst pitching staff worst bullpen by the way the one guy hogan harris didn't strike out was taylor ward in the ninth inning who hit a nice two-footer in front of the mound to end the game as he again only had one at bat tonight but goes hitless and his ops plus in seattle continues to sit around 10 yeah. 00:08:29 Speaker 1: Awful do you know what's amazing do you know I've brought this up multiple times, and I still can't believe it, that we're sitting here on September 3rd, the Mariners add another loss to the bucket of worst loss of the season to the worst team in Major League Baseball, and the Mariners have made zero major changes. 00:08:51 Speaker 2: Again. 00:08:52 Speaker 1: How many times has this happened already? 00:08:56 Speaker 2: Say that again. 00:08:58 Speaker 1: How many times has this happened already? 00:09:01 Speaker 2: Well, for them, not many. They don't make any moves. 00:09:05 Speaker 1: How many times would you think that they had a loss worthy of there being a change? Whether or not you think the Mariners should make a change or not, I feel like 28 teams in Major League Baseball, if you were to give them the blank resume of this year's Seattle Mariners in its current state in September, watch the performance they just put out there. and you decide the action you're going to take is nothing going forward, I feel like the only team in baseball that would not do anything is the Artie Moreno Angels. That's it. And Artie Moreno doesn't even own the Angels anymore. 00:09:49 Speaker 2: I mean, do you want to start to list out the losses? There's 22-0 in Milwaukee. There's the blowout loss against the Cubs. There's Monday's loss against the Red Sox. There's this loss against the A's. 00:09:59 Speaker 1: I don't know where... 50th weekend. 00:10:01 Speaker 2: What's up? 00:10:02 Speaker 1: 50th weekend. 00:10:05 Speaker 2: Some of those Tigers games. There's a lot. 00:10:08 Speaker 1: You don't even have to pick one. You can pick any bucket of them. But the amount of times this has happened, with the offense being atrocious... For about three months now, despite a good road trip, overall they've been atrocious. The pitching staff has been the second worst in baseball since July 1st, only to the A's, struck you out 18 times tonight. The decisions are bad. The roster here in September is as bad, I think, as it's ever been. For a competing team that's not necessarily overly injured right now, the major injuries on this roster are Matt Brash, which is just a string of bad luck with Matt Brash. He can't catch a break. He's just not been healthy essentially since he went on the shelf with Tommy John surgery. And then there's Brennan Donovan, whose injury was unfortunately self-inflicted. because there were things he could have done to prevent that injury. Otherwise, you got all your guys on the roster, and the roster is still awful. One of the five worst pitching, hitting, and fielding teams in baseball that is mostly healthy, on September 3rd, nine games under. 500, in a season you were supposed to compete for a World Series? 00:11:32 Speaker 2: And there's nothing?! I mean, Teets, look at some of the other teams around the league. Could you imagine if the Yankees were nine games under. 500 in September? Could you imagine what would be going down in the Bronx? I'll even use other examples of things that have gone down this season across the league. Alex Cora got fired for a bad month. I know the Red Sox turned it around, but they fired Cora for a bad month. Rob Thompson got fired in Philly. Teams with expectations, teams with good rosters, teams that are driven to go compete and go have a deep playoff run. They're making changes. Could you imagine if the Cubs were nine games under 500 right now in September? And the Cubs didn't have the World Series odds that you had at the start of the year. Could you imagine if the Astros were nine games under 500? The Astros are leading the AL West. They let... They let their general manager go and Dana Brown and all reports seem to have that Joe Espada is going to be done at the end of the year. I mean, seriously, look at all the competing teams across the league. Look at the action that's been taken. And the Mariners here in September are nine games under 500 in a season that expectations have never, ever, ever been higher. And it's just Stan Pat and Stan Pat and Stan Pat. Or actually, you know what? As Frank the Tank would say, Stay the course. 00:13:02 Speaker 1: Like, there's a, like, you could scapegoat someone, which doesn't fix anything. Like, when they fired Bobby Magallanes, didn't do anything. Clearly, they've been worse since they fired him. Like, they're not even doing, like, a token thing. Let alone, like, actually trying to solve the issues of this team. But, like, they're not even trying, like, to do token things. They're just letting it crash and burn. They're letting the same thing happen over and over again while changing nothing. 00:13:33 Speaker 2: It's incredible. 00:13:34 Speaker 1: Even something like waving Taylor Ward, just admitting, waving the white flag that it was a mistake to acquire him at the deadline because he can't hit. Because whether he's healthy or not, it's just not working. And we're saying, oh, this is not good enough. We're getting this out of our lineup. No, that hasn't happened either. It's incredible. I even feel like a team like the Minnesota Twins would do something like this. That would make a decision if there was a season like this, they would do something. 00:14:05 Speaker 2: That's like as. 00:14:05 Speaker 1: Middle of the road, even lower payroll than you are. And the Mariners are doing absolutely nothing. Whoever you want to point the blame of the season at, or whether or not you believe that letting someone go actually fixes something, I think it's incredible that given all the circumstances of this season, there's been nothing. Absolutely nothing. It honestly blows my mind. We're going to look back at this, either in the offseason, next season, and a couple of seasons. Look back at this year and be like, they did nothing. It's like the Titanic is sinking, and you're just widening the hole. Just widening the hole, ripping wooden boards out, letting water come in. 00:14:58 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's nuts. It's well said, by the way. It's totally nuts. Actually, you know what? 00:15:02 Speaker 1: I have a better Titanic reference. It's like they drove into the iceberg, and instead of steering away, they just kept going straight. That's a better one. 00:15:13 Speaker 2: Great. It's well said. I don't know how much else I can add to that. Yes, it's crazy that we're here at the 3rd of September, the 4th of September, and they're just kind of saying, eh, everything's fine. Everything's fine. No, it's not fine. It's very evidently not fine. 00:15:33 Speaker 1: Like the series on the road, like the Boston series was good. The Philly series was good. The Cubs series was good. But then you can't even enjoy those series because they turn around and they don't just lose right after those series. They have these just awful losses. As bad as you could possibly get losses right after that. And it's just a bad theme that they're clearly not willing to fix in-season. 00:16:04 Speaker 2: So they're just punning the season, essentially. If they won't make in-season changes... they're just punting. And by the way, they've punted a lot of this season. They wouldn't, we're going to do a whole laundry list of all the ridiculous things that have gone down this year at the end of the season. And by the way, if you want a spoiler, TJ and I have started to create the list for this. It is, um, long, very, very long. And there's probably going to be more added before the end of the year, but they've punted a lot of things this year. They wouldn't commit to a rotation. They did the, stupid piggyback, and then you didn't take the trade deadline very seriously because you very, very lightly bought, and your headline acquisition has been terrible in Taylor Ward. 00:16:49 Speaker 1: Your two acquisitions, let's make this more specific. Your two main acquisitions at the deadline have been two of your ten worst players all season long by Ward. 00:17:00 Speaker 2: It's incredible, and they haven't played many games. Sir Anthony Dominguez has pitched in, what, less than ten games? 00:17:04 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 00:17:08 Speaker 2: It's insane. 00:17:09 Speaker 1: It's bad. 00:17:10 Speaker 2: So that was your whole trade deadline. Yeah, they've done a lot of things like that this year. And then they're punting on not making any in-season changes. And no Bobby Magallanes does not count the third hitting coach. 00:17:23 Speaker 1: Even in 24, they kept making changes when things weren't getting better. And right here, like, just nothing changes. The playoff odds continue to go down. you're not even trying to save the playoffs this season. You're just trying to have the smallest bit of accountability for a team that is objectively terrible. Listen to this from Divish. He tweets this out. Worst records in MLB since July 6th. And the context for this is that people are saying, well, the Mariners can make up a ton of ground on this playoff field by playing an incredibly soft schedule in September against the Rockies, A's, and Angels, who are the three worst teams in baseball. That's 17 of the Mariners' final 22 games. Here are the teams allowed with the worst records in baseball since July 6th. A's, 14-37. Angels, 17-32. Rockies, 17-32. Mariners, 19-31. Hmm. 00:18:26 Speaker 2: A's, Rockies, Angels, Mariners. By the way, I kept hearing from everybody that, hey, just wait it out till September, wait it out till September, and then you get this easy schedule. Oh no, you're one of those teams on an easy schedule. Somebody left me a comment on Twitter, and I think they're absolutely right, when I tweeted that the Mariners just got blanked by an A's team that had none of their best hitters, and... We got left a comment that says they're just not a good baseball team. But the real line here is all the people saying they have an easy schedule in September. Those teams are saying it about us. And they're right. While the Mariners are looking at the A's and the Angels and the Rockies and saying, oh, we have an easy schedule this month. There are other teams looking at the Mariners and saying, oh, we have an easy series. We get to play the Mariners. Like they're not competitive. Let's compare two players. They're making similar contracts, but you have to pick one guy to be in your lineup. Player 1 hit 300. He had an 840 OPS and a 141 WRC +. 41% better than the league average. Player 2 hit 185. He had a 563 OPS and a 63 WRC +. So who would you pick? The clear answer is Player A, right? because Player A is 2025 Dominic Canzone and Player B is 2022 Abraham Toro. Well, you can apply that same logic to our friends over at Davis Law Group, who offer better service with even better results. 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That's dlgseattle.com slash baseball. 00:20:44 Speaker 1: To make the playoffs, the Mariners had to go minimum 16-6. I said this morning in our morning post here on Thursday that if they wanted to stamp guarantee a playoff spot, they needed to go 17-5 in the final 22 games. Is this Mariners team going to go 17-4 the rest of the way? 00:21:05 Speaker 2: Number one, no. And two, 17-4 only gets you to, what, 83 wins? I don't even know if that guarantees it. Who says the Astros don't rip off a few wins? You probably need to get to 85 wins, and that comes out to what? Then you have to go 19-2 at this point? 00:21:24 Speaker 1: Yes, it's not happening. 00:21:26 Speaker 2: No, but even to go six. 00:21:29 Speaker 1: The next game they lose against the A's will eliminate them from the playoffs. I'm dead serious. They have five games left against the Rangers and A's. And again, we said to even have a chance, 16-6 or 17-5 before tonight's game, which turns into 16-5 or 17-4. You pretty much assume if you're going to go like that, you're going to beat the A's in every single game you play. Except they didn't. 00:21:58 Speaker 2: Because let's be generous here. Let's be generous and say the Mariners go 3-2 against the Rangers and the Astros in those five games that they play against those teams. And by the way, the Mariners have not played the Rangers well this year at all. I mean, the Mariners record against the Rangers this year is three and seven. So let's be generous and say they go three and two against those two teams. Well, now moving forward, you have to go. You only have three losses to spare the rest of the way. You're going to go 13 and three. Like you're only going to lose three games. I have my doubts. 00:22:38 Speaker 1: No, I don't think that's happening. No. I don't think this team is good enough to only lose three times in 22 games. They would have to have one of the biggest turnarounds, both offensively, defensively, and pitching-wise for me to believe. 00:22:54 Speaker 2: Well, it'd be three times in 16 games because currently I'm being nice and saying, oh, they can go three and two against the Astros and Rangers. In reality, there's a very real world. They just go one and four in those games. And then this whole conversation is a moot point. But I'm trying to be generous and say they go three and two. Then you still have to go 13 and three. So then if you lose one more to the A's and split the series, now you're talking about 13 and two that, yeah, like you're going to have to start sweeping series. We'll see. 00:23:23 Speaker 1: There's just nothing that suggests that's going to happen. Even if this team gets a lead, I don't trust them to hold it. This team, Lyle, is in dire need of a bullpen overhaul. They don't just need to add like one or two relievers next year. I think this team needs a full autopsy on its bullpen. This bullpen has a ERA since July 1st of 5.8. 5.8. I'm just going to say that the Mariners no longer... possess the ability to fill their bullpen full of no names and have it be productive. Because we just haven't seen the consistency now for essentially three seasons in a row about this bullpen. Of its ability to get big outs when it needs. And really just like strike the fear in the other team. I just don't see it. 00:24:16 Speaker 2: In the last three years, who have they put in that Steckenrider bucket? Who have they truly developed off the streets into a great arm? Bazzardo, I guess, but he ain't pitching very well these days. Overall, I guess you could call him that guy, but that's one guy in three years. That's not enough. And Bazzardo's a middle reliever. That's what he really is. The Mariners try to treat him like he's a leverage arm. He's a good middle reliever that gets put in situations that are just too high in leverage, and now he's getting exposed. So beside one good middle reliever, you haven't developed arms. You haven't developed leverage arms in your bullpen. 00:24:51 Speaker 1: They pitch him in leverage because they don't have enough leverage arms because they don't develop good arms in the bullpen. Which on that note, there was injury news today, which is Brendan Donovan still taking some time to get back. He's not getting through full workouts cleanly yet. But the big news was. 00:25:09 Speaker 2: Matt Brash had a setback in a bullpen the other day in Boston. He had to get an MRI and there are waiting results. And if it is another true setback, he's likely done for the year. Matt Brash now in the last three seasons has barely thrown 60 innings. Three seasons, 2024, 2025, 2026. He's barely thrown 60 innings of big league baseball. So let's just stamp it right here. The Mariners can no longer enter their offseason or enter their offseason plans with Matt Brash being penciled in as a leverage arm. No, he's an add-on. He's an addition. He's a cherry on top. You don't get to factor him into your plans anymore because he has unfortunately not proven the ability to stay healthy. They need serious leverage arms in their bullpen moving forward. And if you get additional production from Brash, great. Right now, you need to treat your bullpen like you have two guys you rely on. Andres Munoz and Gabe Spire. Everything else, totally on the table for me. 00:26:08 Speaker 1: Yeah. It's just been uncompetitive to that level this year. And for the last few years, the Mariners have really not been able to develop and find that diamond in the rough bullpen arm, they're going to need to have some sort of strategy change on how they're going to get better relievers into their bullpen more consistently. I don't know what that is, but it's going to have to change because like the Mariners pitching staff as a whole has just been awful in these last couple of months. The bullpen has been the worst part of it. They've, they've just been really, really, really bad. And, If you want to consistently win games, especially in a park where you're going to struggle to score runs, you've got to have a better bullpen. And there's just not a lot of guys to trust, and they're going to need better arms in that pen if they want to compete. If they want to seriously win a World Series, the bullpen's going to need to be better. It's just another reason that even if they somehow miraculously find their way into the postseason, I don't trust the bullpen at all to lock down games. 00:27:18 Speaker 2: Nothing. 00:27:19 Speaker 1: You know, maybe if they put a starter in the bullpen all season, they would have a better arm there all year. But what do I know? 00:27:25 Speaker 2: What do we know? I mean, listen to this stat. And the stat I'm about to read is an indictment on the performance of the players, the manager, the game planning, and the front office. It's on everybody. Because listen to these numbers. The Mariners ranked top 10 in Major League Baseball in innings pitched by their starters the third time through the order. Of the teams in the top 10, the Mariners have the worst ERA of that bunch. 00:27:53 Speaker 1: It's not good. 00:27:57 Speaker 2: No. And for teams that you often want to model yourself after in terms of how to develop pitching, aside from the Mariners who have, I mean, draft and develop wise, sure, develop some guys. But like when you look at major league production with your arms, Who do teams turn to? Rays, Brewers. They do it on low payrolls, they do it by finding guys off the street, and they get incredible production from those guys. And they always have spot-on game plans. The Rays and the Brewers rank bottom five in the league in innings pitched by their starters the third time through the order. They know that... When starters get to the lineup a third time, they start to get knocked around. So they don't go the third time through very much. They turn it over to their bullpen. Their bullpen's incredibly reliable. And they win a bunch of games. There's a chance those two teams square off in the World Series. It's unlikely Major League Baseball would be furious if they got a Brewers-Rays World Series. But there is a chance those two teams could square off. 00:28:59 Speaker 1: The Mariners. 00:29:01 Speaker 2: essentially pick your poison your starters are not pitching well they're bad the third time through the order and then your bullpen's been one of the worst in baseball. 00:29:09 Speaker 1: It it's on multiple things when you lay that out i mean it's on the manager for not pushing the right buttons in the right spots but when your bullpen sucks and your starters suck third time through once you get to the fifth inning it's a lose-lose you're either bringing in a reliever who's going to give up a run or you're leaving your starter in who's going to give up a run pick your poison But it's also, you know, it's a pitcher development thing where you need to prepare yourself and develop yourself to try and get outs third time. through I'm not saying they don't try to do that but the execution of it has not not been there clearly right and it's on a game planning or I guess game planning from the higher ups as well on how exactly how they're going to go about getting the most out of their pitching staff it's just another reason why like The belief in this team is gone. 00:30:02 Speaker 2: I hate to do it because they've done so many good things over the last few years and have really played a factor. But when you talk about game planning around your pitchers, I mean, pitching staff, the pitching coaches play a factor in that. Trent Blank and Pete Woodworth are in every meeting and part of the game plans. They're a part of that too. They're in that bucket. 00:30:23 Speaker 1: It's a brutal look when you do build a team around a pitching staff. And they're awful. 00:30:30 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:30:31 Speaker 1: Because then that's how you get a bad team. And that's exactly how the Mariners have ended up in the situation they're currently in right now. 00:30:37 Speaker 2: Correct. 00:30:38 Speaker 1: I'm sure if we went back and listened to some of our podcasts at the beginning of the season where we're projecting out, look, you're not going to get the best Cal Raleigh production, but you'll still get solid. You'll get solid Julio. And you're going to get a healthy pitching staff. That alone in a weak division, which we very correctly predicted the vision is awful. would put you in the playoffs. But instead, the Mariners have been bad at literally everything. 00:31:05 Speaker 2: That's the other part of this season, too, that is going to help have it go down as the worst season in the history of the franchise is you're not only missing the playoffs with absurd expectations and finishing way below 500, you're doing so in the worst American League West I've ever seen. The American League West is a current literal spitting video and image of the South Park episode where they're playing in their all-star tournament and every single team wants to lose so they can go home and be done playing baseball. And then they go up against each other and South Park can't stop winning because all the other teams want to lose more than they do. No, we're going to get creamed. You guys are going down. No, you guys are going down. There's no way we're winning today. That's the American League West. And the Mariners are going to finish... anywhere from seven to 10 games below in the worst division I've ever seen. Even if they win, okay, even if they win some of these games in September against bad teams, all right, you'll finish five under. I don't know. It's not good. 00:32:05 Speaker 1: No, it's bad. It's awful. And most importantly, Lyle, unacceptable. 00:32:10 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:32:10 Speaker 1: For this season. 00:32:11 Speaker 2: Yeah. All right. 00:32:13 Speaker 1: We got a great mailbag, plenty of awesome mailbag questions to get into. Before we get to that mailbag though, Lyle, do you want to read an ad? 00:32:20 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk to you guys about our friends over at Pagachas Pub 85. Over in Kirkland, it's an awesome spot to go hang out with your friends, watch games and have some great food or play some games because there's pool and darts in the place. And if you want to do all that and maybe you want to watch some games with your friends, sporting events, I mean, Seahawks season is about to start in less than a week. I cannot wait. So go hang out there. Have a good time with your friends. Go over to Pub 85. And if you go during happy hour, drinks are $ 3 and $ 4. Those are happy hour specials. Monday through Friday from 2 to 6 p.m. So check that all out at Pagachas Pub 85 in Kirkland. 00:32:56 Speaker 1: And before we get into this mailbag, a reminder to you, if you want to get in on these mailbag episodes and you want to have your questions answered, the place to go is our Patreon. That's patreon.com slash marine layer pod. You get access to ad free episodes, mailbag priority. So if you have a question, you leave, leave it for the mailbag every week. and you get your question answered right here on the podcast. You also have access to a live video call with Lyle and I once a month where we can talk baseball, life, or really whatever you want. So if that sounds like something that's interesting to you, just go to our Patreon, patreon.com slash marine layer pod. Kelly starts us off on Patreon and asks, admittedly, I'm a player apologist, but as someone who knows a lot about concussions, I'm concerned that Julio is still dealing with some post-concussion issues. Do you guys think, watching him on the field, that some of his struggles and gaffes could be because of his concussion earlier this season? 00:33:54 Speaker 2: It's totally possible, Kelly, and it's a good question. Unfortunately, I don't think we have a good way to answer this question soundly because we just don't know. There's no way to get into the mind of Julio Rodriguez unless he comes out and publicly talks about it to know if he's still battling concussion. concussion symptoms or not, just since we're not doctors and we're not trainers, obviously you hope not. And you hope it's not where it's not weighing them down, but sure. I mean, it's totally fair to have the speculation or the wonder if it is still bothering them. Yes. 00:34:30 Speaker 1: Everything you said is correct. It is very hard to speculate, especially, and Julio would never admit that anyways, even if, even if it was true, I don't think he'd ever admit it. I don't think anyone would ever publicly admit that that was real. I'll give you a reason why I don't think it is because we've seen plenty of other players without concussions, making the same sloppy mistakes. Julio makes just the team culture. They just make sloppy mistakes all over the place. It's not just Julio. It's not just any one guy. It's everybody. Everybody lacks the attention to detail and, And the focus required to be buttoned up for all 162 games. 00:35:12 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's fair. 00:35:15 Speaker 1: Next question comes from Michael on Patreon. Michael asks, I don't necessarily agree with the premise of this question, but I want to hear what you guys have to think. We always spend our time talking about the need for the Mariners to improve their offense, but given the fact that the Mariners pitching staff has only had one truly great year in 2024, where they were beyond amazing, are we at the point where we're going to be objective about the pitching staff and say they're overrated? 00:35:42 Speaker 2: I mean, overrated might be a little bit of a stretch because they are talented. You know, these guys all can at their peak be really, really good major league starting pitchers, all-star level major league starting pitchers. Even with the one guy that's never made an all-star game in this rotation and Bryce Miller, the way he was pitching in the first half, it felt like he was trending toward it. The way he pitched in 2024, it felt like he was on his way to it. So, you know, they can do that. But by the numbers and by the production, especially this season, and if you want to look this season and last season, I don't think overrated is the right word. I just think underperforming is the right terminology there. Because if you want to see the Mariners improve on their rotation and go out and get different players, it's just really, really hard to do with starting pitching. I mean, I am the biggest proponent... That the Mariners are not aggressive enough. And way too frugal with their money. And cheap. Whatever word you want to use when it comes to acquiring offensive talent. Because they've proven that they are year over year. They don't raise their payroll enough. Etc. It's just really hard to try and go out and do that. With starting pitching. I mean look. If you were to tell me the Mariners are going to go sign Tarek Skubal. Do an 8 year deal. I'd be like awesome. Sign me right up 10 times out of 10. But. Often starting pitcher contracts really go south in free agency, and trading for starting pitching can work, but the Mariners would also have to give up a lot to get the type of starting pitching that you're probably referring to, Michael, that would get them to the level of rotation that you want to see them at. The best way to develop pitching in Major League Baseball is to truly do it through drafting and developing, and then if they're that good, extend them. 00:37:31 Speaker 1: And. 00:37:32 Speaker 2: I think the Mariners have gone about that the right way with their rotation. They just have guys underperforming. 00:37:37 Speaker 1: It's easy to get caught up in the season, and they deserve every ounce of criticism for what has gone wrong this season, whether it be the players themselves, the staff, the coaching staff, the front office. But the facts are the facts, Michael, with this pitching staff. Since 2023, when Bryce Miller and Brian Wood joined this rotation, the Mariners are fifth overall in Major League Baseball in ERA. The rotation is first. The bullpen is eighth. 00:38:05 Speaker 2: So overrated? No. I don't think they're overrated. 00:38:09 Speaker 1: They're not good this year, definitely. Will it sustain going forward? I don't have much confidence in the Mariners to be a top five pitching staff by ERA going forward. 00:38:24 Speaker 2: I think a lot of that is weighed by 2023 and 24. Because in those two years, 24 especially, I mean, they were unbelievable. But if you were to look 2025 and on, the Mariners rank 14th and their team ERA is over four. It's 401. I'd take 401 right now. Oh, yeah. I mean, compared to where they are now. But I get what Michael is getting at. You're right. Since these guys have all been a staff together overall, it's great. But a lot of that, I think, is weighed by those first two seasons, by 23 and 24. I agree. 00:39:00 Speaker 1: I just wouldn't call them overrated yet. I wouldn't call the rotation overrated. Bullpen, yeah. I'd call it way overrated. 00:39:08 Speaker 2: I think the rotation is underperforming. I think that's the right word. 00:39:12 Speaker 1: I totally agree with that. Next question comes from Maxton on Patreon. Maxton's question is, over the years, the Mariners have experienced a wide variety of strange injuries. Where does Brendan Donovan's recent incident rank among the Mariners' oddest injury storyline? So Maxson also gives some examples in the question. He talks about, obviously, Jared Kelnick kicking the cooler. He talks about Mitch Hanager and Adrian Beltre having. 00:39:43 Speaker 2: Groin injuries. Let's call them that, but you know what they really are for both of them. Where would Donovan's rank? I'm sure there's others we're forgetting that are just like wild, more wild than this that we're not coming up with off the top of our head. 00:40:00 Speaker 1: I did a quick Google search. I couldn't find any. I was looking up like strange Mariners injuries and the Kelnick and the ruptured testicles were the ones that always popped up first. 00:40:12 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah. 00:40:14 Speaker 1: I think it's hard to to take anything besides those two for the top two sets of injuries, I would put Donovan down well below those. Donovan's at the point of the season it was at, and given he wasn't wearing a helmet, it was kind of an eye roll, but it wasn't... I don't know. I wouldn't rank it as high as those other ones. 00:40:41 Speaker 2: It does not compare to Jared Kelnick kicking a cooler because he was pissed off that he struck out against Joe Onderon. Correct. Yeah. 00:40:49 Speaker 1: Yep. 00:40:51 Speaker 2: Now, if you want one other, I don't think he landed on the IL for this. I think he missed a few games and was day-to-day, but I do remember in either 2017 or 2018, Nelson Cruz legit slipped going down the steps of the dugout at home in T-Mobile Park and was banged up because of it. 00:41:11 Speaker 1: Well, didn't Paxton do the same thing? 00:41:14 Speaker 2: I don't think Paxton slipped on steps. I don't think that ever happened, but Nelson Cruz, I do remember slipped at one point. Do you have, do you find anything? Yeah. So, Oh, here we go. March 31st, 2018 Mariners slugger, Nelson Cruz sprained his right ankle after slipping on the dugout steps, following a home run. Scott service joke to reporters that hearing about the freak injury made him want to throw up. I mean, I get it. Like if you lost Nelson Cruz, it would be awful. Uh, x-rays were negative for a break. It showed only a sprain. Oh, but look at that. The Mariners placed Cruz on the 10 day injured list. A few days later on April 3rd. Now he got back on the 14th. It wasn't extensive, but that's kind of a freak injury. You slip down the steps after a home run. 00:42:03 Speaker 1: What about James Paxson? Like, falling during agility drills and going on the injured list. 00:42:09 Speaker 2: Oh, I forgot about that. That was in spring training, wasn't it? 00:42:12 Speaker 1: It was in spring training. So I don't think that one can rank that high, but that's kind of a silly injury. 00:42:17 Speaker 2: I mean, look, love packs. He's one of the nicest dudes. And obviously he was so talented when he was at his best, but man, he, he really, unfortunately had a knack for, for getting injured and it's not his fault. He was just, he was just a guy that happened to build up a lot of injuries, but, He did get injured a lot. 00:42:36 Speaker 1: Not the most durable guy in the world. 00:42:38 Speaker 2: No, no. 00:42:40 Speaker 1: I can't, yeah, I can't think of any other injuries. If we do think of some Maxton or you think of more, please like drop them in the comments of this episode on Patreon or send us a message or something. I feel like we're forgetting something, but I can't think of exactly what right now. 00:42:55 Speaker 2: Drop it in the comments. If you guys know of other freak injuries over the course of the Mariners existence, tell us. 00:43:01 Speaker 1: Thomas on Patreon asks, what's your favorite food or snack at the ballpark? 00:43:07 Speaker 2: I don't eat a ton of ballpark food, funny enough. When we're at the ballpark these days, I wouldn't say we're sitting there eating a ton of ballpark food. But growing up, the easy one was always Dippin' Dots. It was always when my family would go to games growing up. It was always, I don't know why we said it like this, but we always, it was always our thing. From the time I was a really young kid, In the sixth inning, top of the sixth inning, we'd always go and get Dippin' Dots. My brother and I, my parents, if they wanted it, we'd always go get Dippin' Dots. So I would say those. 00:43:41 Speaker 1: I did the same thing. 00:43:43 Speaker 2: Sixth inning? 00:43:44 Speaker 1: Maybe not in the sixth inning. I don't remember when we would go, but we would always go get Dippin' Dots. That was great. That's like the nostalgic one. 00:43:51 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Now, that's not still happening now. This is growing up. But yeah, we would go get Dippin' Dots all the time. 00:43:58 Speaker 1: I'd say currently at the ballpark, I like Moto Pizza a lot. It's kind of expensive, but also everything in the ballpark is really expensive. I'd say marination is also really good too. A couple of Kern options, those two are pretty good. 00:44:14 Speaker 2: Yeah, those are good. 00:44:14 Speaker 1: I would say. Ballpark snack? 00:44:19 Speaker 2: I don't know. 00:44:21 Speaker 1: Food. I'm more of a food over snack guy now. I prefer a full meal over just something to snack on. If there's options. 00:44:30 Speaker 2: I don't, I mean, I like ballpark peanuts. If you want a snack option for the ballpark, those are good. 00:44:36 Speaker 1: And like, I like salt and straw a lot. I just don't need it at the ballpark. Cause they got the, they got the salt and straw at the ballpark and the line is always so long to go get it, but I've never actually had it at the ballpark. I just get it not at other places. 00:44:50 Speaker 2: Salt and straw. Isn't that ice cream? 00:44:52 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is ice cream. It's not at the ballpark. 00:44:54 Speaker 2: How do we go from ballpark peanuts to. 00:44:57 Speaker 1: Because it's at the ballpark. 00:44:59 Speaker 2: Oh, okay. 00:45:00 Speaker 1: It's ballpark food. 00:45:01 Speaker 2: All right. 00:45:01 Speaker 1: But I don't eat it at the ballpark. 00:45:04 Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah. 00:45:05 Speaker 1: So good question, Thomas. Uh, next question comes from Xander on Patreon. Xander's question is to Oscar Hernandez, Taylor Ward, AONU Swords, Rob Raff, Snyder, and AJ Pollock have what in common right-handed hitters that have tanked their performance while playing in T-Mobile park. Do we still believe there is merit about Teoscar's comments regarding the batter's eye making it difficult to hit in Seattle? 00:45:33 Speaker 2: Not really with the batter's eye, to be honest, because you've never heard anybody else come out and publicly talk about it. Is it possible that guys are thrown off by it? Sure. But Teoscar is really the only guy who's ever said that it really affected him. And look, the Mariners have had a really bad season. history in the last handful of years of right-handed bats that have come to T-Mobile Park. But you also have Randy, and it's worked for Randy. And to be fair, I mean, Gino at home in 2022, looking at the numbers now, he had a 783 OPS in T-Mobile Park that year, where he put up four and a half wins, which is a WRC plus that's going to spit out around 120. So They didn't have nobody who could hit at the ballpark. Now, Tao didn't. Ref Snyder sure as hell didn't. Those other platoon righties did not. But no, I don't think it has a ton of merit because the Mariners never truly did anything about it. And you just haven't heard enough other players come out and talk about it in addition. 00:46:35 Speaker 1: The numbers just also don't back it up at all. I went back and I looked since 2021. Left-handed hitters at T-Mobile Park have a 668 OPS and a 90 WRC +. Right-handed hitters have a 665 OPS and an 89 WRC +. No difference. 00:46:56 Speaker 2: At all. 00:46:57 Speaker 1: Right. So, unfortunately, the numbers both home and away for the team that's hitting is the exact same. And Cal Raleigh and Jorge Polanco each, as a right-handed hitter last year at T-Mobile Park, had an OPS over 1,000. So that's possible. Some guys see the ball very well as a right-handed hitter at T-Mobile Park. 00:47:18 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's totally right. I forgot Polo hit that well from the right side at home last year, which is crazy because the whole story for like half the year last year was every time there was a lefty on the mound, they'd put him on the bench because he had some mysterious reason that he couldn't hit against lefties and they wouldn't disclose what was going on with his knee, even though it was very clear that it was still bothering him. And then finally, once I guess he was healthy enough, he really got going. To be fair, he didn't have that many plate appearances. 00:47:49 Speaker 1: I think it was like 50-something plate appearances as a righty at home during the regular season. 00:47:54 Speaker 2: Well, because for half the year, they wouldn't play him against lefties. And everybody was like, well, why won't you play him? 00:48:01 Speaker 1: I don't know. 00:48:01 Speaker 2: It's like, well, I have an idea. 00:48:04 Speaker 1: Well, when they did play him, he was really good. 00:48:07 Speaker 2: Right. 00:48:08 Speaker 1: And he didn't have a problem seeing the baseball, so... As much as it might not have been a fit for Teoscar, right-handers in general do not have a disadvantage over left-handed hitters at T-Mobile Park. Either you can hit or you can't. I think the Mariners' bigger issue in general is the type of hitter they're signing. There's just more volatility in either old players or guys who strike out a lot. Because sometimes... With guys who strike out a lot, you just get a really cold season. And they don't produce. Or if you send an old player, they're just washed. And that's what the Mariners, I think, have landed. 00:48:50 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:48:52 Speaker 1: John on Patreon asks, what do you think is the reason why Gilbert hasn't been extended yet? Do you think there's actually going to be any progress there? 00:49:02 Speaker 2: I sure hope so. If it doesn't get done before opening day of this upcoming season... it doesn't feel like it's getting done. That probably means Logan's going to hit free agency and they can always sign them back in free agency, but if they don't get it done before opening day of next year, it feels like it's going to be hard to do. What is the reason it hasn't gotten done? I, feel like there's a decent chance that it goes both ways. I would guess Logan is looking for a certain number because Logan has talked about he'd love to stay here and he'd love to play here. And I believe Logan. I think Logan does like it in Seattle. I also think he wants a certain number and he should want a certain number because he's been really good and deserves to get paid. But I'm also guessing that the Mariners probably have not offered the number that Logan Gilbert and his agent are looking for. And I'm guessing the Mariners have also been wishy-washy at points because up until the last couple months, Logan Gilbert, over that calendar year, like ever since he had that forearm injury in late April of 25 till... let's call it the end of May or so of this season, it was pretty up and down for Logan. He would have a start that he put together that was good, and then he'd have a couple where he really got knocked around. Now he's turned a page and has had a really nice season, which is great. But I would guess it goes both ways here. 00:50:21 Speaker 1: I wrote down the exact same things you just laid out. Mariners would be probably deciding whether or not Logan Gilbert is worth the price tag. that he would agree to, and Logan Gilbert has a number in mind that the Mariners need to hit. It's possible neither of those things happen. And then he walks. I could totally see that. Logan Gilbert's going to be 31 years old that first season after he signs as a free agent. If Logan Gilbert's taking a five-year deal, it'll be 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 years old. Is Logan Gilbert worth that much, in your opinion, at those ages? Or could he start declining a little bit as guys do. It happens. 00:51:05 Speaker 2: Yeah. Like if you're Logan Gilbert and his agent and you want going into next year, a six year extension for $ 150 million, that's a lot of money. Mariners may not pay up the price for that, but there's another team out there that when he hits free agency, I'm sure what? Yeah. 00:51:23 Speaker 1: So I guess, I guess we'll see before we get to our next mailbag question. Let's pause here for an ad. Emma is next up on Patreon. Emma's question is, what's your opinion on the prospects we've seen this season? And could you see them on the roster next year? 00:51:45 Speaker 2: I think you will see just about everybody on the roster next year that you've seen this season, unless there's a big trade. So she lists out Laz Montez. Yeah, unless he's traded, he'll obviously be on the roster next year because by calling him up in September, you've proven that you You want him as a part of the club. You value his power. You value his hit tool. And you're hoping it translates to the big league level. Cade Anderson, yeah, of course he'll be here next year. And even though he didn't throw the ball that great here on Thursday night, I'm just not that worried about Cade. I'm not that shocked that there's an adjustment period going on right now from AA to the big leagues. I mean, the ball is different. The hitters are way better. And you know what, guys? In some ways, it's almost good that Cade's getting knocked around a little bit because it never happened in AA this year. getting punched in the mouth isn't the worst thing in the world. And he'll learn from it. He'll make adjustments from it. I think come next year or certainly in due time, Kate Anderson is going to be the arm everybody's expecting him to be. She lists out Brock Rodden. We'll see. It really has not gone well for Brock Rodden. And then Colt Emerson will be the starting shortstop if he's healthy. 00:52:55 Speaker 1: And then other prospects that could be up next year. I mean, Michael Royal probably will be up. Ryan Sloan will be up within probably two months of opening day next year. If they start on time, I'd probably be roughly the handful of prospects. I mean, Johnny Farmelo could debut later in the year. It's always possible. 00:53:14 Speaker 2: Johnny and Felning would be the two where maybe you'd see him at the end. 00:53:18 Speaker 1: Of the year. 00:53:18 Speaker 2: Like you are with Laz this year, if they really play well. But Felny, unfortunately, is now done for the year because I guess he strained his quad, I think it was. And they're just being cautious and are going to shut him down for the rest of the year. And, yeah, I mean, Johnny's been in AA for, what, a month, a month and a half now? I mean, he'll need a full year down there at AA, and then we'll see. But those two would be the two to circle as guys who, by the end of next year, could. 00:53:50 Speaker 2: Get up if they really play well. Luke Stevenson, I feel like is more 2028. Ace Reese would probably be more 2028, guys like that. So yeah, I think we've highlighted the majority of the guys. 00:54:02 Speaker 1: Next up on Patreon is Alex. Alex's question is, looking back to the 2022-2023 Mariners prospect pitching wave, Are we about to see a position player version of that in 2027 with Cole Young, Colt Emerson, Laz Montes, and Michael Arroyo joining a still young Julio Rodriguez and Cal Raleigh? If this position player wave is real, does this make you view the front office's ability to develop hitters in a different way? 00:54:35 Speaker 2: If it all works out, yes. But I view this core position players differently than I do this group of pitchers. I think this group of pitchers was always expected to have real, real success. And the position players that are going to come through the system are talented. But we've talked about some of the concerns with Laz. I mean, he is really, really going to have to prove he can hold a maintainable strikeout rate at the big league level. He's going to have to prove he can make enough contact at the big league level. He is sure as heck going to prove that he can hit lefties at the big league level. So that's the Laz aspect of it. I mean, Cole Young, look, he'll be a good player for you guys, and he's proven how many strides he's made on defense this year, which is great. Unfortunately, he has gone through it at points in the second half of this season. I mean, he's only running out a 691 OPS right now, and you hope it gets better. But I think the role of Cole Young on this team is... your number nine hitter, who's a good defender, and at his best, you know, can be a three-war second baseman who might make an all-star game or two, but he's probably not the offensive version of some of the pitchers you've got, where it's like, oh, well, he's game-changing things. He's a very good player who augments a roster and is playing a really, really nice role. You need Cole Youngs on your team. I don't know if he is a Logan Gilbert equivalent, because they were ranked similarly as prospects. 00:56:06 Speaker 1: That's a fair point. I don't know if yet I would declare the Mariners position player wave like the same level as the pitching wave. Like what is the Mariners like? This question is being asked in reference to multiple waves. The pitchers had multiple, a couple different waves. You had Logan first, then you had Kirby, then you had Bryce, then you had Brian. And now you have Kate Anderson and Ryan Sloan in this rotation as well. With Luis Castillo being at it, but he's not part of this wave. The position player wave, you had Julio, which has overall been a win. Cal, clearly been a win. Besides that, in terms of homegrown development, it's been really just Dom Canzone since then. That's been since, what, 2022? 00:56:56 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:56:58 Speaker 1: As a homegrown player. And now we finally have this next wave of hitters, where... as you just mentioned, the only guy who's established in the big leagues right now is someone who has been fine offensively, but fine doesn't really define a wave. We still don't have proof that Colt Emerson, Lazaro Montes, or Michael Arroyo can hit big league pitching consistently. We just don't know. We haven't seen it. 00:57:24 Speaker 2: Right. 00:57:25 Speaker 1: That's going to need to be something that's proven next year and maybe proven just beyond next year as well, Alex, before we can actually declare that that the front office has found something with developing bats. I'm honestly not even sure if this front office gets to that point, but we'll see. 00:57:42 Speaker 2: We'll see. 00:57:42 Speaker 1: Right. 00:57:43 Speaker 2: Agreed. 00:57:46 Speaker 1: Cameron is next up on Patreon. Cameron's question is, what are your guys' thoughts on the Angels' new ownership? 00:57:54 Speaker 2: Jealous. I mean, look, I don't think Stan Kroenke is the world's greatest dude. He is a major reason the Chargers were shipped out of San Diego and brought up to LA instead of just staying in San Diego like they should have. Again, I'm not like the biggest fan of the guy as a dude, but he sure as hell wins, man. And he does not stop at anything to win. He's won with the Nuggets. He's won with the Avalanche. He's won with the Rams. He's a part of Arsenal's ownership group, if I have that right. Is it Arsenal or Man City? One of them. 00:58:30 Speaker 1: He's got a pretty diverse sports portfolio, and they have all won. 00:58:35 Speaker 2: So let me be very clear. The Angels are not turning around next year and winning 95 games. It is going to take some real time for the Angels to get back to a state of competence because their farm system needs a huge overhaul. They need to put big league talent on the roster that is going to be not just satisfactory, but good and overly productive. It's going to take some time, but you have an owner who's willing to stop at nothing to go win. Yeah. I think that in time, the angels might have just gotten themselves a pretty big win. 00:59:09 Speaker 1: It's not only stop at nothing but he's able to hire competent people and get out of the way that was arty moreno's big thing arty moreno loved to make decisions for the angels and he was always always horrendous at making those decisions yeah having an owner who's willing to write a check and get out of the way, is the best type of owner you can have. That's what made the Seahawks and Paul Allen so great. How many times did you ever hear from Paul Allen as a Seahawks owner? 00:59:38 Speaker 2: Oh, in 30 years, you essentially never heard from Paul Allen or Jody Allen. They were not in the public spotlight. They were not in the media. They just gave their people the funds and the resources that they needed and were the biggest supporters. They were awesome people. By the way, side note on that, Jody Allen should absolutely be raising the 12 flag on opening night on Wednesday. I hope that it's her. 01:00:03 Speaker 1: Dude, talk about a bang for your buck in ownership. Like, what, she was the chair for, what, eight years? 01:00:14 Speaker 2: Roughly. 01:00:16 Speaker 1: And talk about... Talk about already getting all of his decisions wrong. She made all the right decisions. At all the big ones, she just like nailed. It's honestly really impressive. 01:00:27 Speaker 2: A lot was put on her and they moved on from Pete at the, I mean, well, we used to argue well before we ever did the podcast that it was long time for Pete Carroll to go before he was let go. But they moved on at a good time, at a time where separation was needed. And then, wow. 01:00:45 Speaker 1: She told Russ to kick rocks. 01:00:48 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. They and then they were so right. They were so right because it turned into Devin Witherspoon and Charles Cross. Charles Cross. Pretty good. Pretty good. Two guys that are on massive contracts now and are cornerstones of both your offense and your defense for the Seahawks. 01:01:06 Speaker 1: And then you free up all this cap space because you don't have that. You don't have to pay him. And now you need a quarterback and then you go win the Super Bowl. 01:01:14 Speaker 2: You get Sam Darnold. Yeah. I mean, I mean, she was a part in moving on from Gino too. She let that happen. They went and got, got Sam Darnold. They won the Superbowl. By the way, I don't know what you're talking about freeing up the cap money, TJ. Russell Wilson did everybody a favor when he got to Denver. He didn't take $ 50 million a year. He actually took $ 49 million a year to make sure he wasn't resetting the market to leave the Broncos money to spend elsewhere. Only $ 49 million a year. I mean, you just have to tip your cap to somebody so humble, so balanced, so team-focused. 01:01:45 Speaker 1: He was willing to trade the $ 1 million so he could get an office at the facility. 01:01:52 Speaker 2: We don't talk a lot of Russ on this pod. TJ and I, yeah, not exactly leading the fan club. Let's put it like that. 01:01:59 Speaker 1: Definitely not. No. And a lot of that, or sorry, a lot of that, all of that is Russ's fault. Yeah. 01:02:06 Speaker 2: But to Jody's credit, she did like everything right, man. And including, I mean, I don't know how much of a decision she had in the hiring process of Mike McDonald. That wasn't the easiest decision in the world, because if you remember, the Ravens got all the way to the AFC title game that year, so they had to wait. They essentially waited out Mike McDonald while other coaches are getting hired and poached off the board. They waited out Mike McDonald, and they also were going up against the Commanders, because the Commanders were fighting for his services too. Jody... forked up the money gave all the resources they need to make sure that guy is going to be our head coach and holy hell has that money given you the greatest roi you could possibly imagine it really is amazing just watching hard knocks as it finishes up and seeing the conclusion of the allen family as the owners of the seahawks i mean it's amazing what they both do i mean just like incredible head coach incredible owners the mariners should look across the street. 01:03:09 Speaker 1: I don't, well, I don't think that's happening. 01:03:13 Speaker 2: They should really, really sound driven process, detailed oriented head coach and owners who stop at nothing to win and are as helpful and as unmeddling as possible. They should try that sometime. 01:03:29 Speaker 1: I'd say in conclusion on the angels ownership to get back to the question, I think they are in good hands. I think Stan Kroenke knows what he's doing. Like, there's a long list of things that need to happen with the Angels that you listed off. Sounds like they're also going to get a new stadium. So that would also help. 01:03:48 Speaker 2: Yes. 01:03:50 Speaker 1: Angel Stadium's built in the 60s. 01:03:53 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm sure they'll just renovate this stadium because they reported they're going to stay in Anaheim. 01:03:58 Speaker 1: Yeah, they could probably just knock this stadium down and then build around it because, I mean, it just sits in a sea of concrete. So you could, people were floating out the idea of them building their own version of the battery. They're around that stadium, which it's probably a better use of the, of the land than just having a giant parking lot surrounding the stadium and would actually make the stadium desirable to fans. So they could do that. I mean, Cronky's done some, like as an owner of a sports team, Cronky's done some good things. Like it was really shitty when he brought the Rams to LA. I feel bad for everyone in St. Louis that lost their team. but he's been right. He has the, he has the best stadium in the world that he built. Uh, he has a Superbowl. He is one of the top two head coaches in the league. And they're one of the like media darlings, whether or not you like it or not, all the attentions on them. That's him. Right. He, he nailed it. 01:04:56 Speaker 2: Top two. You're talking McVay and McDonald, right? At this point. Yeah. 01:04:59 Speaker 1: Yeah. 01:04:59 Speaker 2: Yeah. 01:05:00 Speaker 1: But I mean, I'm not stupid. 01:05:02 Speaker 2: No, no, no. That's, That's right. I mean, McVay's an incredible coach. We might not like the Rams. They are the Seahawks' biggest rivals at this point, but they're a very, very well-run franchise. There's no denying that. Right. 01:05:13 Speaker 1: So I think, unfortunately, the Mariners now have shifted into the bottom half of the AL West in terms of ownership groups. 01:05:23 Speaker 2: It wasn't all that high a bar to clear to begin with, considering John Fisher and Artie Moreno were in the division. But yes. 01:05:32 Speaker 1: But now I would say that Cronky owns the Angels. The Mariners have shifted below them. So only John Fisher remains in the basement. I was going to say, they probably rank fourth among owners now, only ahead of Fisher. Cheryl on Patreon asks, what would a trade package look like for Addison Barger? 01:05:53 Speaker 2: It's a nice idea. And by the way, TJ and I really like Addison Barger just as a dude. We've gotten to talk to him multiple times. And Seattle guy... really nice, down to earth. I actually don't think it would cost a ton because he's not all that proven as a big league player. He had a good year last year, but at least by baseball reference, he only put up about one war. It was slightly above that with an OPS plus that sat at 104. So, you know, he didn't light the world on fire last year. So in terms of what the value for Addison Barger would be as a player, it's probably... nothing crazy over the top it would probably cost you one of your very very low end starting pitchers or and may and maybe that or otherwise it would cost you some prospects but that being said i don't think the blue jays would make that trade because they want addison barger and they value him when he's healthy And part of the reason he's not that valuable right now is because he's essentially missed all year with an injury. So he's only had one real proven season where he was good, not great. And then he's missed all year with an injury. 01:07:06 Speaker 1: I would say to one prospect in the back half of your top 10, then another and remain still in your top 15. That probably gets it done, but I agree with you. I don't think they would trade him. 01:07:18 Speaker 2: Right. 01:07:19 Speaker 1: And I don't, Back to our conversation from last episode, he's not getting into the middle of your lineup and doing what we think needs to be done to the middle of this lineup. He's someone you add on in addition to that middle of the order bat that you're in the process of lengthening and looking for someone who's going to hit 6th or 7th and not someone who's going to hit 2nd or 4th or anything in that lineup. 01:07:42 Speaker 2: You know what Addison did phenomenally for the Blue Jays last year, especially in the postseason? Hit 7th or 8th for them. He hit 20 home runs last year. He was really good in the postseason. He's got a really strong arm. He can play third and the outfield. He's got value, but not to be a headline trade acquisition of your offseason. Yeah. 01:08:05 Speaker 1: Nick's got a question on Patreon. This is a good one. 01:08:09 Speaker 2: I hope people stuck around to the end of this podcast. 01:08:12 Speaker 1: I hope so too. So Nick's question is, You find the woman of your dreams, perfect in every possible way, and a huge baseball fan. You will never find anyone else like her. However, on the morning of your wedding, she confesses to you that not only is Dan Wilson her favorite all-time mariner, she also believes that his managerial decisions and leaderships are elite and worthy of a lifetime contract. Do you call off the wedding? 01:08:45 Speaker 2: Such an abomination of a statement like that might warrant a surprise no-show at the altar. No advance warning, it's just no show at the. 01:08:57 Speaker 1: Altar allows deleting her number out of his phone. 01:09:02 Speaker 2: We should probably see other people. 01:09:06 Speaker 1: You know I don't think this is gonna work are you at least gonna tell her are you just gonna flat out just like ghost. 01:09:13 Speaker 2: Well when she eventually when she eventually finds out and and tries to contact me saying what the hell is going on. It's like, unfortunately you love Dan Wilson and his decisions inside the Seattle Mariners dugout. So these are just inseparable views and irreconcilable differences that we have. It's not going to work out. 01:09:37 Speaker 1: You know, what's amazing about this, this question in this scenario, how it lays out for you, especially there's like no way. If you like you, when you start dating this girl that you even get through the first date without mentioning Dan Wilson. So the fact that it waits till you get to the altar that she admits to you that Dan Wilson's her favorite all time manager and deserves a lifetime contract. 01:10:04 Speaker 2: I just don't even think Lyle would let that happen. Honestly, probably not. Because if there was a first date to your point, At some point, it's probably going to come up, oh, what do you do for a living? What's your job? I'd say I do baseball content, and then there's a follow-up. Okay, what does that look like? And part of it is I do a Mariner's podcast. And let's say she's from Seattle, and you're obviously dating someone in the area. And then she goes, oh, like, how are they doing this year? And that is probably all the trigger I need to be like, oh, they've been awful. Their manager's destroying their season. 01:10:36 Speaker 1: Oh, who's their manager? 01:10:38 Speaker 2: Oh, that'd be Dan Wilson. 01:10:41 Speaker 1: Why is he bad at his job? 01:10:44 Speaker 2: Where do I start? 01:10:49 Speaker 1: You know what's great for me, Nick? I saw this question for you and I texted my girlfriend about it. And I was like, what do you think about Dan Wilson? And she said, oh, I think he sucks at his job. So I'm in the clear. 01:11:05 Speaker 2: Wait, this conversation had never come up until now? 01:11:10 Speaker 1: No. 01:11:11 Speaker 2: Oh, no. 01:11:11 Speaker 1: I just needed an official statement. 01:11:14 Speaker 2: But it had or had not come up before this. Oh yeah. It had. I, I, I only figured, I mean, it's you, are you as big of a psychopath as me? No, but I figured it still came up at some point. 01:11:24 Speaker 1: I mean, she watches all of our clips. Of course it comes out. We only talk about Dan Wilson. 01:11:29 Speaker 2: I don't know. 01:11:30 Speaker 1: Every day. 01:11:31 Speaker 2: Dude, you should see, you should see me when I'm not on the mic. I'm not even kidding. 01:11:36 Speaker 1: It's. Oh, I know. 01:11:38 Speaker 2: Well, you know, I I'm talking to our listener actually. I mean, well, some of our listeners have met me, so maybe they know. Um, You know how people talk about working on themselves before being in a good headspace to get in a relationship? If the Mariners miss the playoffs this year, it seems pretty damn unlikely Dan Wilson is back managing this team. And I think that's what it's going to take for me to like... Commit to having a girlfriend. Because, unfortunately, there's too much rent being taken up in my head where I don't even have the wherewithal to, like, have the brain capacity to take on something like that. Like, I need things freed up. I need things freed up. 01:12:25 Speaker 1: I was sitting here wondering before we were recording, when Dan's gone, like, what is Lyle going to do? 01:12:30 Speaker 2: Dude, I don't know. 01:12:33 Speaker 1: He legitimately... Let me take a guess here. You probably spend like, there's probably an hour a day where the words Dan Wilson are coming out of your mouth. 01:12:45 Speaker 2: I can't tell if that's underselling it or not. Anyway. 01:12:48 Speaker 1: Um, I'm not even talking about the pauses. Like every time the word Dan Wilson comes out of your mouth, like the ticker goes on, like the stopwatch starts and every day it ends at about an hour, an hour's worth of Dan Wilson. Imagine what happens when Lyle has all of that time and energy back. What he could do. 01:13:06 Speaker 2: It's truly incredible. Dude, I could take on the whole world. I could... I could... I don't even know. Like, cure world hunger. 01:13:15 Speaker 1: I mean. 01:13:18 Speaker 1: That would be such a noble cause. From Dan Wilson to solving world hunger. 01:13:24 Speaker 2: I mean, alright. I'll give you one even quick story as we're sitting here talking about it. So, my parents... recently had, I haven't even told you this story, but you'll get a laugh out of it. Oh boy. There, they, they had some old photos of me as a really young kid. And it was, uh, it was from a scrapbook they got from one of their parents and they brought it, they brought it back with them and they, they wanted to show me. And I don't usually love going through this stuff, to be honest. Like, I mean, it's, it's fine. I just don't get that much of a, that much of like entertainment out of going through these old photos of, me as a young kid. So instead, while they obviously want to like sentimentally go through it, they're like flipping through it and they're looking through photos. And it's like, there's one of me, obviously as a really young kid, upset. There's one of me with a really surprised face. Like we get to the surprise face and I was like, you know what that is right there? As they're trying to be sentimental. That's me saying 27 years from now, Dan Wilson's going to go to Edward Bazzardo over Andres Munoz in game seven of the world series. No, no, he's not. Then they flipped to the photo of me. I think crying is a really young kid. And it's like, this is me saying, this is my reaction after putting in Edward Bazzardo of game seven of the ALCS. And again, it's like me as a kid in tears. So like, this is me going through an entire scrapbook. It's, it's really unbelievable, dude. Like my, my, my mind is going to be so freed up one day. I don't know when, but one day, maybe after this year. 01:14:55 Speaker 1: Okay. We got one more mailbag question to close it out. Dave on Patreon asks, speaking of Dan Wilson, the Mariners fired Dan Wilson, which available managers with MLB experience would you like to see the Mariners pursue? 01:15:11 Speaker 2: I mean, there's a handful of names out there. I think the popular one, for very good reason, is going to be the idea of poaching Steven Vogt away from Cleveland, paying him more than the Guardians are, and sales pitching him on coming back to Seattle, which would make all the sense in the world. 01:15:27 Speaker 1: That's one. 01:15:28 Speaker 2: If you want to look toward managers with experience that aren't managing... I mean, I'm sure fans want to hear us bring up the name Alex Cora. It's a nice idea, but he's making so much money on his Red Sox contract that I have a hard time believing he'd come out to Seattle. At least from what we've heard from Divish, the Mariners don't pay their coaches all that great, so I don't know if Cora would come out here. Just because of, again, location, where he's based, money, previous contract, etc. I mean, I guess you could look at somebody who hasn't managed in a while, like a Joe Girardi or somebody, but I have a hard time believing that would happen either. If you want a few names, those are a few names. But the one that's most realistic probably is somebody like Vogt. 01:16:09 Speaker 1: Or Don Mattingly, who's the interim manager right now for the Phillies. He's got plenty of MLB experience, and he's about to manage a team into the postseason, and he's not guaranteed a full-time job there. So that's another one. Ask our friend who's a Phillies fan, though, and he thinks Don Mattingly's a terrible manager. So do with that what you will on whether or not you'd hire him. I have a hard time thinking it's anyone but Steven Vogt if they're going to go hire an established major league manager. 01:16:38 Speaker 2: Yeah. But if it's not an established major league manager, if they try to go somebody of the Mike McDonald route who's young and up and coming, I will say it again. You want to sound smart with your friends. You want to sound ahead of the curve. We'll talk about him plenty if that manager spot opens. Learn the name Kai Correa. He's the Mets bench coach. Really, really sharp dude. 01:16:59 Speaker 1: If Jerry were to hire a manager with MLB experience, it would be the first time in then in his 12th year that he has hired someone with major league managerial experience or honestly, like serious, like major league coaching experience to be his manager. Scott service wasn't a manager or really a coach. He was a, he was a Rover in the minor leagues or he was the minor league coordinator, I think. 01:17:27 Speaker 2: Right. I thought he was in the front office. 01:17:30 Speaker 1: Or in the front. I mean, coordinators kind of are in the front office. 01:17:34 Speaker 2: So it'll be the first time that Jerry would hire a manager with previous managing experience. And just the second time they've done a hiring process when hiring their manager. 01:17:46 Speaker 1: What happened the other time? 01:17:49 Speaker 2: The other time? Oh, they handed Dan Wilson the job on a silver platter and said, you don't need to interview. We don't need to interview anybody else. Here's the job permanently. 01:17:56 Speaker 1: Did he manage you before? 01:17:58 Speaker 2: Nope. No, he didn't. 01:18:01 Speaker 1: Not even high school? 01:18:02 Speaker 2: No, he did not. See, guys, again, I know this question's about managers, but I couldn't even get through the full question without just snapping back into my Frank the Tank mode, essentially. One day, my brain's going to be freed up. One day. 01:18:20 Speaker 1: Hopefully soon. 01:18:21 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a really good set of mailbag questions. You guys are always great with it. We always love taking your questions, but the baseball ones, the non-baseball ones, they're awesome. And if you want to get involved and ask us questions, again, go sign up for our Patreon and we answer your mailbag question whenever you send it. With that, that'll just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Layer podcast. You guys know the drill. If you want to listen to the full-form podcast, you can do so wherever you get your audio pods. Make sure to download if you're listening. Go rate and review. Please leave it five stars. You can also go hit subscribe. if you're watching on youtube on the video side you can check out our website which is marine layer pod.com and you can find our merch our patreon our episodes all there it's a big one-stop shop again that's marine layer pod.com and then find us all across social media we're everywhere we're posting content every day at marine layer pod That's TJ. I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon.