Episode 455: How Many Starting Pitchers Should The Mariners Trade This Offseason? (Mailbag)

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hey guys, just a reminder to all of you, we've got multiple live events coming up in the next couple of weeks. This upcoming Tuesday, September 15th, we're doing a live podcast taping with our friends at Moss Bay Hall in Kirkland, along with our friends at Corona. And we'll be there watching the Mariners game for a while too. So if you're around next Tuesday, September 15th, come on out to Moss Bay Hall. Again, plan for roughly 8 o'clock, I'd say. Somewhere between 7.30, 8 o'clock. We'll be out. We'll be watching some of the game. We will be taping there afterwards. And then the following Tuesday on September 22nd, we will be back at Emerald Queen Casino. Same thing. We'll be watching the Mariners game with all you guys. We'll be taping a podcast live afterwards. We'll be hanging out. We'll have giveaways for both events to give away. We're going to be, again, just conversing with all you guys as the Mariners season starts to come to a close in the final couple weeks. We've got a couple of more live events. So mark them on your calendars this upcoming Tuesday, September 15th at Moss Bay Hall in Kirkland. And then the following Tuesday, September 22nd, Emerald Queen Casino. We can't wait to see you guys there. 00:01:04 Speaker 2: Welcome to episode number 455 of the Marine Layer podcast. It's a mailbag episode, so we'll open it up and answer your best listener questions. 00:01:12 Speaker 1: Reminder to you guys before we start these podcasts, just make sure you go download these podcast episodes. If you're listening, wherever you get your audio podcast, just go hit download. And please leave a five-star review when you go rate and review. If you're watching on YouTube, hit the subscribe button right in front of you on YouTube. You can also check everything out that's at our website, marinelayerpod.com, which is our episodes, our Patreon, all of our podcast merch. It's all on our website. And then find us all across social media too, at marinelayerpod. 00:01:41 Speaker 2: Let's get it rolling. And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer podcast, part of the Just Baseball podcast network recording here on Wednesday afternoon, September 9th. We're recording this episode a day earlier than we normally do because Lyle and I are going to travel to Florida and for our bullpen banner channel and hope to get a lot of really good content with both the Marlins and the Dodgers this upcoming weekend. So that should be really cool. Hopefully we'll have a story. Maybe we'll be able to pitch Kyle Tucker on Seattle and report back and see what he thinks. If we do talk to Kyle Tucker and there's like a conversation, is the word Seattle getting mentioned? Like, how are you, how are you planning on bringing it up? 00:02:34 Speaker 1: You ever seen any Seattle content with your name in it, buddy? Oh, that'd be us. 00:02:40 Speaker 2: Like if Kyle Tucker is like some, cause sometimes this happens not to like humble brag ourselves, but it does happen. Sometimes the players will see some of the content we put out, whether it is podcast content or bullpen banner content, more often it's bullpen banner content, but you honestly never know. 00:02:57 Speaker 1: Well, just cause it's, it, it, it involves more guys around the league. So it's a little more general. It's a little more national. The views are a little bit higher. So as expected, more guys, more people would see that. However, If K-Talk's like, oh, I've seen you before, and you're like. 00:03:15 Speaker 1: Which one? Which one? 00:03:18 Speaker 2: That one you might actually have to be specific and ask. Was I yelling or not? 00:03:24 Speaker 1: You know what my fear is? And I think it actually might be a fear built in truth, because I have heard this. Is he even going to be on the field? He may not even be on the field for batting practice. He may do everything inside. 00:03:35 Speaker 2: He's already been paid, and the Dodgers are guaranteed to make the playoffs, so. 00:03:41 Speaker 1: I don't know if we'll get our chance, sadly. I am very excited to go, though, because there's a couple teams we haven't caught yet to do bullpen banner stuff. The Dodgers are one of them, and obviously that's a big one. So, yeah, looking forward to it. And unfortunately, I think everybody knows this by now. We're just not missing much by being away from Mariners baseball for a weekend. They're on the road, but I don't know how much we're going to miss. 00:04:03 Speaker 2: No, I don't really think we're going to miss that much at all. The biggest Mariners connection we have this weekend is Kyle Tucker. I do hope we have a conversation with him. 00:04:12 Speaker 1: God, that'd be awesome. That'd be hilarious. 00:04:14 Speaker 2: Have you ever considered Seattle, K-Tuck? What are your favorite parks to hit in, by the way? 00:04:19 Speaker 1: Oh, Seattle? 00:04:20 Speaker 2: Seattle. Oh, interesting. 00:04:22 Speaker 1: I mean, it's interesting. You're not hitting very well in LA, pal. If there's going to be a new system in place and Mark Walter actually doesn't have all this money, you ever thought about a plan B? 00:04:34 Speaker 2: What if K-Tuck goes, oh, I remember that edit you guys put together of me in the Seattle airport. 00:04:41 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, where people actually started DMing us and are like, did you actually see him? It's like, um, no. Don't you think it would have been a better edit job or actually a better footage shot? Yeah, better edit. Well, just a better footage shot of somebody actually standing in the airport than a very clearly photo taken off the internet and placed in the most generic SeaTac airport photo ever. 00:05:06 Speaker 2: And then the fact that there was an entire Reddit thread about it, it's like, Did you guys see that the Marine layer guys saw Kyle Tucker walking through the Seattle airport and that there was a flight from Tampa into Seattle at that time they were in the airport. It's like, wow, I do wish that was great. 00:05:24 Speaker 1: Anyway, we're still recording this after the Mariners beat the Rangers here on Wednesday. So there's only one game that we're recording this ahead of. We're still two games through the series and yeah, the Mariners won. Kate Anderson had his first really good start. It was his first quality start. He racked up 10 whiffs, which is something for a guy that isn't the ultimate swing and miss guy and isn't projected to be. Win six innings, gave up just one run. Mariners made it interesting again, where there was a home run given up to Corey Seager in the eighth to make it a one run game. And then there was the tying run on second in the ninth against Munoz, but they did win. I don't know how much more we can say other than that. They won a baseball game here on Wednesday. 00:06:09 Speaker 2: You know how I feel about this. Like, they're done. 00:06:12 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, of course they're done. I'm just objectively saying they won a baseball game here on Wednesday. 00:06:17 Speaker 2: They did win a baseball game, and I'm very happy for Kate Anderson. It's fun to get your first quality start out of the way. Kate essentially did today what he's been doing in the minor leagues all season long, which has been be efficient, pitch six innings, and mow down the other team. Yeah. 00:06:33 Speaker 1: It was great. 00:06:35 Speaker 2: It was good. It was awesome. I.... 00:06:37 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm just going to say it. I'm going to say one thing before we get into the mailbag because you had a really funny comment this week. Just seeing Cade around T-Mobile Park the first couple weeks that he's been in the big leagues, he does spend a lot of time around George Kirby. It just seems like those two walk and talk together a lot. And TJ's exact words as he watches these guys the other day just walk out to the outfield, back into the clubhouse together. He's like, wow, this is like watching synchronized diving. Because both of them... You know, they have a similar build. One's a righty, one's a lefty, but similar build, and neither of them are exactly big talkers. 00:07:17 Speaker 2: Similar personality types. Like, we joked about this when they were in the minors, and, like, the brief interactions we've had with both players, because, again, they aren't, like, that extroverted, so it's not like we get to spend a ton of time, even though George is in the big leagues, chatting up George Kirby while we're at the park. Is that just not really the kind of guy he is? Unless you're, like, a golf sicko, he doesn't really stand around and talk. But as Cade was coming up and based on what we had observed and seen from Cade, it's like, you know, if he's going to model himself after anyone in this rotation, personality wise, it's probably going to be George Kirby. The first time we were at the park, the two of them with Cade up in the big legs, Cade and George Kirby are walking right next to each other everywhere. They're like, this checks out. 00:08:08 Speaker 1: And then it's continued to happen with them just in lockstep a lot of the time. And the other day TJ is like, yeah, this is like watching synchronized diving. 00:08:16 Speaker 2: It's, it was, it's just funny to think about like, yeah, it, it, look, if it works and, and you're a great pitcher while having that personality type more power to you, like literally whatever works. We were on the other side of the, uh, of the diamond when the Rangers were in town. Um, And trying to get some of those guys for bullpen banner, the ones we hadn't already gotten because the Rangers have already been in town this season. You know who's like that? Jacob deGrom. 00:08:44 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. You can forget about having a conversation with that guy. No shot. 00:08:48 Speaker 2: There's no way in hell. I don't know if people remember this conversation when this happened with Jacob deGrom and a content friend of ours, Rob Friedman, the pitching ninja. He... at All-Star Week last year, two years ago, asked Jacob DeGrom, he always goes around and he asks players what their pitch grips are. And every single pitcher usually is like, oh yeah, sure, Rob, here's my fastball, here's my cutter, here's my changeup, here's my curveball. Rob at All-Star Media Day goes up to Jacob DeGrom and says, Jacob, I'm doing a video on pitchers' pitch grips. Could you show me your changeup grip? DeGrom goes, no. It's like, all right, dude. I'm sure it's not some groundbreaking, groundbreaking, never seen before pitch grip, which also, by the way, you can freeze frame a television broadcast and see his exact grip. But Jacob decided just to not share. 00:09:52 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, chill out a little bit, buddy. It's fine. If you have Scooble and Skeens and all these other guys, across the league that are the dominant arms, even Chris Sale. Chris Sale doesn't do a ton of interviews either, but he doesn't have a problem showing pitching ninjas, pitching grips. It's just like, chill out a little. 00:10:13 Speaker 2: But Jacob deGrom's won two Cy Youngs, which is why, you know, if it works, it works. like we'd prefer everyone to be chatty and happy, but you're not, you're not going to win with everyone that way. So Jacob DeGrom is going to scowl, not want to talk to as many people, but he's going to win multiple Cy Young's and be a borderline hall of fame pitcher. Then, you know, so be it. I don't think many people in Queens cared quite as much as he was putting up his like dominance. Some guys are just wired a certain way to be great. And if that's what it takes to be great, then so be it. And if Kate Anderson's going to win multiple Cy Youngs while not being the most extroverted person in the world. That's fine. He doesn't have to talk to us as long as he wins. 00:10:56 Speaker 1: No, this isn't really about us. This is more about just him and Kirby having a lot of similarities. I know. 00:11:03 Speaker 2: But I will say those two do talk more than DeGrom does, from what we've heard. 00:11:07 Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, again, DeGrom's in his own bucket. I'm not putting Kate and Kirby in that bucket. They're just, you know, they're more to themselves. DeGrom's kind of... DeGrom's kind of his own breed. 00:11:20 Speaker 2: Yeah, you could say that. Anything else before we get into this mailbag? 00:11:26 Speaker 1: No, I think that's it. Well, I don't know why the Mariners still in the big September 9th of 2026 are starting Weston Wilson and Taylor Ward over Laz and Arroyo when you're out of the playoff race. But what do I know? 00:11:39 Speaker 2: It is kind of weird because we, as much as we don't like it, we've heard plenty of talk about 2027 throughout the year. And I honestly don't know what they get out of playing Taylor Ward or Weston Wilson anymore the rest of the season. Even if you don't want to waive them, just stick them on the bench. What do Michael Arroyo and Laz Montes have to lose by playing in these matchups? 00:12:04 Speaker 1: What do the Mariners have to lose? Again, you're not going to the playoffs. So why not just play the young guys? 00:12:12 Speaker 2: That's a great question. Well, Jerry was on the broadcast today. 00:12:16 Speaker 1: Oh, good. Did he have much to say? 00:12:19 Speaker 2: No, he was just talking about prospects. 00:12:23 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, that checks out. 00:12:25 Speaker 2: Yeah, that does check out. All right, before we get into this mailbag episode, I want to tell you guys about Emerald Queen Casino's upcoming lineup of shows. The Phil Collins story is on September 17th. Matt Matthews on September 27th. Sons of Legion on October 4th, and Gary Allen on October 9th. Get your tickets today at emeraldqueen.com. Emerald Queen Casino is the entertainment capital of the Northwest. And while you're there, check out Slough Hall Steakhouse. Take your dining to the next level with rooftop views, mountain to sound views paired with premium steaks, and creative cocktails. Come by Friday and Sunday from 4 to 10 p.m., and Saturday from 4 to 11 p.m. Get your reservation today on OpenTable or by calling 253-441-3101. That's 253-441-3101. And before we dive into this mailbag, a reminder to all of you, if you want to be featured on these mailbags, the place to go is our Patreon. That's patreon.com slash marine layer pod. You get access to ad-free episodes, mailbag priority, and the opportunity to get on a video call with Lyle and I once a month to have us answer any and all of your Mariners questions. So if that sounds like something that's interesting to you, go to our Patreon and sign up at patreon.com slash marine layer pod. Thomas starts us off on Patreon and asks, should the Mariners trade two or three starting arms for bats this offseason? 00:13:57 Speaker 1: That actually sounds like a lot to me. I'm okay with it being one because they've already traded one in Castillo. And if you trade one more, then you've still got seven potential arms. I don't think Ryan Sloan starts the year in the big league rotation. I don't think he cracks the opening day roster in the rotation. So if that's the case, you still want to have a couple guys ahead of him. And if you do that, then even if Sloan's not in the big leagues to start next year, if we stay with our process and what we've talked about on this podcast about the pitcher that is going to get traded is Kirby, then next year you'd have Logan, Wu, you'd have Cade, you'd have Hancock, and you would have Bryce Miller until Ryan Sloan is ready. And you'd also have Logan Evans at some point next year. I don't know if it'll be mid-season next year. I don't know if it'll be opening day next year when Logan's fully ready to start pitching in games again. But you will have rotational depth if you just trade one starter. You trade two starters, and that's where you start to run into some potential muddy waters. 00:15:05 Speaker 2: Thomas asks a good question. I do think in a perfect world, you could get the kind of volume of quality bats that we've been asking for back. I don't know if a perfect world's out there, though, where there's enough available talent and available teams willing to pay the price you want for your three starting pitchers. If you were to trade three, which is the extreme example, even trading two, I think, is a little on the extreme side, though not totally unlikely given what the Mariners have in their system and the guys they might want to prioritize. They might want to prioritize... Ryan Sloan over Emerson Hancock next year. They might want to prioritize trading George Kirby and paying someone else in that rotation, which would open up a spot for someone to come in and pitch. But I don't think there's enough market out there to warrant trading three starting pitchers because I don't think you will get the value back that you're trading away. 00:16:08 Speaker 1: I also think if you trade two starters, then... extending Logan Gilbert is a non-negotiable, and you're essentially going to have to give him whatever dollar figure he wants. Because if you trade Kirby and Hancock, then all of a sudden your rotation becomes Logan Gilbert with one year of club control, Brian Wu, Kate Anderson, Ryan Sloan if you're going to prioritize him and just put him right in the rotation, and then Bryce Miller at your five spot, who has been injured at points this year. He has had a really, really rough second half. And as it points, been straight up moved to the bullpen, if not for injuries. That's your five starter. And then Logan Evans would be behind him. But again, Logan got his Tommy John in January. And usually it's anywhere from a 12 to 18 month recovery. So who's to say exactly where Logan's going to be come opening day of next year? Hopefully he's ready. But if he's not, and it takes him a little bit of time into the season to get fully back on the mound, then again, it's a thin rotation all of a sudden. And it's a guy that... it has one year left in control in Logan Gilbert. 00:17:13 Speaker 2: What are the odds if they do end up trading multiple starting pitchers that it's one of the top prospects, Cade or Sloan? 00:17:20 Speaker 1: Very low. 00:17:23 Speaker 2: You say that, but then you have to justify, you're either trading your two top prospects with the most control, or you're trading two established major league starters. Like, you're going to have to bite the bullet on one end of it. 00:17:39 Speaker 1: And I think they'd bite the bullet on the major league starter before those two, because whether you agree with it or not, I think this Mariners front office just believes that Kate and Sloan are the future of this rotation. 00:17:49 Speaker 2: Well, clearly that would make the rotation better for next year and a plan to win, right? 00:17:54 Speaker 1: Listen, I'm saying what the Mariners are likely thinking. I'm not saying what I'm thinking. Listen, if you were, if you were going to trade one of your prospects and I don't know, And you were going to get two years of Ronald Acuna. I mean, it would be a thought. It would be a thought. 00:18:13 Speaker 2: And that might offset any of the experience you're lacking in rotation. Right. 00:18:19 Speaker 1: But Acuna is risking his own right. Injured at times isn't always the most consistent. We'll be due a new contract here soon. Oh, right. So if you trade for him, you better pay him. Yeah. 00:18:30 Speaker 2: And he's not going to be cheap. He will be more expensive than Julio is. That's for sure. 00:18:34 Speaker 1: Well, and he probably, not probably, he absolutely regrets the first extension he signed. So he's going to be looking to cash in on the second one because that first one, he was severely, severely underpaid. 00:18:46 Speaker 2: Alex has a pitching-related question as well on Patreon, and he asks, at what point does this rotation's continued regression stop being a collection of individual execution problems and become evidence that Seattle's MLB pitching philosophy hasn't evolved enough? 00:19:04 Speaker 1: This was similar to what we were talking about on the last mailbag, right? About the bucket of conversation of is this Mariners rotation overrated? We've had a little bit of that talk, right? 00:19:15 Speaker 2: Yes, very similar to that. 00:19:18 Speaker 1: So, I would say this. Again, just reading through the question, make sure I have it right. The Mariners tend to keep struggling starting arms with underlying injuries. Again, I don't know if the Mariners... You don't always know if a pitcher's injured or not, so I don't know if I should speculate about potential injuries. injuries or non-injuries, because you just don't always know. But in terms of the rest of the league evolving to their potential philosophy, I mean, I think what they've done on the road, or lack thereof, the past couple of years exposes a little bit of that because it has been two different pitching groups inside of T-Mobile Park versus away from the 206 area code. 00:19:59 Speaker 2: I want to say that I want to see another year of this. Like we just, the problem, there's a problem with this. We have the evidence in front of us that this rotation, specifically, is first in ERA in the last four seasons. Can't dispute that. No one's allowed fewer earned runs in this group. As much as they have struggled the last two seasons to not be their best self, the facts are in front of us on what they've done compared to everybody else. The flip side is, Do you want to see another year of evidence before you declare that? If you look at just the last two seasons, this year you've had underperformance. Last year you had injuries. Do you need another season to form an opinion on this rotation? I think I do. Because last year with every single one of your starters at some point spending time on the injured list, you can put a little bit of an asterisk in the results of last season. This season, if you were to make a case just purely based off this year, are they a little overrated? I think you could. But if you're going to make a sweeping assessment of the whole group that the Mariners haven't evolved their pitching strategy enough, if they were to struggle again next year and not deal with major injuries in the rotation, then I think it would be fair to level that against the Mariners. 00:21:25 Speaker 1: I think one more year of data and evaluation is right, especially because then next year you'll have a full season of Kate Anderson, who is not only a really, really polished prospect, but is expected to help you win pretty much immediately. If you see Kate Anderson struggle on the road mightily all through 2027 and this road ERA doesn't get better and they're getting hit hard oftentimes because they're sometimes too in the zone. then yeah, after 2027, there is going to be a real conversation to be had about philosophy and if something has to be shaken up a little bit. Now, that doesn't mean the Mariners aren't going to trade some arms this offseason or a arm. I think they will trade somebody. But overall philosophy, TJ's probably right that the sound reasoning for this is to give it another year. 00:22:11 Speaker 2: Xander's up next on Patreon and asks, what are your guys' favorite musical artists? 00:22:20 Speaker 1: I mean, is he talking about right now or all time? 00:22:24 Speaker 2: I'm going to say probably all time. 00:22:26 Speaker 1: Hmm. Well, here's the problem. All time. Cause I listened to a lot of hip hop music all time. I mean, I still think graduation might be the best album I've ever listened to, but I don't know if I can even say Kanye's name anymore. Like, like, I don't even know if I can associate, like, I don't even know if I can associate myself next to his own music. 00:22:54 Speaker 2: I can, I think you can say that that is the favorite album, your favorite batch of music that you've ever listened to without saying like, I love Kanye West. I think you are totally allowed to say that. I think the comments will, will forgive you for that take. 00:23:11 Speaker 1: All right. How about this? And it should go without being said. Love Kanye West, the artist and what he did for, I don't know, maybe up through 2016. Kanye West, the person, 150,000% disavow. Great. 00:23:26 Speaker 2: What else? He said Xander suggests top three. 00:23:29 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, you could go to some of the current hip hop artists that I listened to a lot, which is the Lil Uzi Verts and the Travis Scotts and the Post Malones and the Don Tolivers of the world. But if you're going to, if you're going to go back towards some of the all time guys, I mean, Eminem's up there for me. I listened to a lot of Eminem music when I was in middle school, like sixth grade through eighth grade. So that'd probably be another, I would say some batch of, Oh, Oh. And then Lil Wayne. So like old bucket, Lil Wayne, Kanye, the artist, not the person. And then Eminem and then newer bucket, Travis Scott, Lil Uzi Vert, Don Toliver, Post Malone. 00:24:12 Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't listen to as much rap these days. That was probably more of a college and maybe early twenties for me. Like I still will listen. I just, it's not like the only thing I listen to anymore. My top artists right now, like all times tough. Cause I, I don't have the all time scope as Lyle does. I didn't even really start listening to music until I was in college, which is crazy for some people, uh, including Lyle whose jaw drops every time I tell him that fact. But That's just how it was. I just wasn't into music. I didn't really listen to that much music in high school. Post Malone is probably up there. I don't know if I have a number one artist of all time, but I listen to a ton of Post Malone these days. He's probably the only artist I actually consistently listen to. Otherwise, I'm a big Spotify mix guy nowadays. I'll just put it on and let it play, and whatever plays, plays. Uh, juice world is up there. Uh, he just doesn't have much new music these days, unfortunately, uh, since he passed away. And then I'll still say Travis Scott. Cause the, the no, I've not liked an artist more than I did when I was like in college listening to Travis Scott. So post Malone juice world and Travis Scott. All right. Yeah. 00:25:30 Speaker 1: So I put it like that. 00:25:31 Speaker 2: I did, I did old bucket and new bucket, but I don't have an old bucket. 00:25:35 Speaker 1: I know that. I, I'm just surprised you never listened to any Little Wayne or anything like that, like from our time growing up through, yeah, middle school, etc. 00:25:46 Speaker 2: I mean, I did, just not on my own. Other people would be playing it, and I would hear it. 00:25:52 Speaker 1: And you wouldn't recognize it if you heard it somewhere else on your own? 00:25:54 Speaker 2: I mean, I probably would, but then I wouldn't go out of the way to have it on my phone, so I was listening to it by myself. 00:26:01 Speaker 1: I see. 00:26:01 Speaker 2: All right. Michael on Patreon asks, what was the first baseball game you ever went to? How much do you remember about it? Where was it? And who was playing? 00:26:15 Speaker 1: It was 2001. I went with my dad. I think I was not even four years old. I can't remember the team. I'm sure I could look up the game, but Carlos Guillen hit a home run in that game. And for a few years as a really young kid, he became my favorite player after that. Even though he wasn't some great player, he was just the first guy I got to see hit a home run live and with four-year-old logic. I loved Carlos Guillen after that. I got a baseball signed by Carlos Guillen and an autograph signing once when I was a young kid. So that's the gist of what I remember from my first baseball game, my first Mariners game. And they did win because it was also a one. 00:26:58 Speaker 2: I don't remember a single thing about my first Mariners game. If we're at, if we're doing like first ever or instead of first remembered, I don't, well, I don't remember what my first remembered game was. They all kind of blend together. Uh, we did used to have season tickets. So we went to like a ton of games and they were all terrible in like, Oh four Oh five Oh six. We had 300 level season tickets and we do have like the same routine for where we'd get pizza at this place on Occidental that is long since gone. I don't remember what it was called at all. Then we would bring it into the stadium. We'd go up on the 300 level. If you remember, if you know where in the park where that purple arrow is pointing towards a section, that's where our seats were because it was next to, I think, a concession stand. I don't remember what section it was, but we'd do the same thing literally every single time. So that all kind of blends together. I did go to some games at the kingdom, but not that I would remember them at all. 00:27:57 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I don't remember any games at the kingdom. Maybe I was there too. The first one I remember was a one Carlos Guillen hit a home run at home. 00:28:05 Speaker 2: Mariners one. 00:28:07 Speaker 1: Uh, by the way, what purple arrow? I don't know. Purple arrow in the stadium. 00:28:10 Speaker 2: It's up on the 300 level. Well, next time we walk past it, I'll show it to you. 00:28:14 Speaker 1: Purple arrow. 00:28:15 Speaker 2: Really? Yes. It's pointed down like this. Hmm. 00:28:19 Speaker 1: I must just be blanking on it as we're sitting here talking about it. I'm sure it does exist. And I'm sure we'll get people commenting saying, oh, it's spot X. It's here. 00:28:26 Speaker 2: Yeah. If you walk up from behind home plate on the stairs, you turn right. I think it's on like if you're walking right. So it is a counterclockwise around the 300 level concourse starting at home plate. Like you'll get past the like the home plate patio area. I think it's slightly past that on the left. 00:28:49 Speaker 1: Got it. Okay. I'm sure it's there. I'm just forgetting. 00:28:54 Speaker 2: Next question on the mailbag comes from Cheryl. Cheryl's question is, since the Mariners obviously aren't firing Dan Wilson yet, do you think he quote unquote steps down before or after the World Series? 00:29:08 Speaker 1: I think we're going to hear something if it happens, and I'm assuming it is at this point. I'm assuming we'll hear something within a week to two weeks after the end of the Mariners season. Why would you wait till the World Series is over? Just seems like it would be only going against you at that point. It delays your process in starting to look for a new manager. 00:29:34 Speaker 2: I think we'd have news within a few days of the end of the season. Because Jerry's going to have his... after-season press conference, and you know what people are going to ask? Is Dan Wilson your manager next year? 00:29:46 Speaker 1: Well. 00:29:49 Speaker 1: Are they going to have an answer before the press conference? 00:29:52 Speaker 2: Maybe. 00:29:54 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. We'll see. 00:29:56 Speaker 2: But... Those guys are going to get peppered with that question until they make a decision. These things usually happen very fast, managers especially. 00:30:06 Speaker 1: Here's a question. Is there going to be an end-of-season press conference? 00:30:12 Speaker 2: Jerry will have one. 00:30:14 Speaker 1: We'll see. 00:30:15 Speaker 2: Yes, he will. Dude, Jerry loves talking to people. 00:30:21 Speaker 1: All I'll say is this. They had one at the end of 2023, and then 54% happened. In 2024, when they missed the playoffs, they had the most impromptu Mariners end-of-season presser of all time. If you remember, it wasn't like the one in 2023 or other seasons past where after the season ended, they held it in a big media room for everybody to show up to. Essentially, one day at the ballpark, I think the front office was like, okay, what media people are here today? Could we possibly get peppered with ridiculous questions? Oh, no, it's just all the usual people? Okay, we're going to have it right now. And then people got notified like five to ten minutes before. Oh, Jerry's having his end of season presser. And then last year, after the postseason run, they did some end of season presser. I think it was a little small, felt a little small. But I don't know. That's been the trajectory of the last three years of end-of-season press conferences. And the last two have looked very different than the one after 23 when 54% happened. And this is the worst season of all those four. Are they not going to downgrade all the way to, oh, no presser at all? 00:31:29 Speaker 2: They will not do that. They will have one. 00:31:33 Speaker 1: We'll see. 00:31:33 Speaker 2: Divish didn't make the 2024 one sound like it was something crazy that they did. 00:31:39 Speaker 1: Oh. I thought I remember a lot of people being upset about it. It's like, oh, they essentially just. 00:31:44 Speaker 2: Well, because they missed the playoffs, they fired their manager, and then all of a sudden they have an impromptu one. But Divish was making it sound like impromptu ones aren't all that irregular. 00:31:56 Speaker 1: Hmm. 00:31:57 Speaker 2: That they would generally have it during the last weekend of the season while the media are already at the ballpark instead of making them come back to the ballpark. The difference is they don't announce it to everyone, so everyone shows up to the ballpark on purpose. 00:32:10 Speaker 1: That's what it is. Because I think there's a lot of media people who would probably be interested to show up to it, but they don't announce it. So they're selective about it. 00:32:19 Speaker 2: I'm sure the Mariners would prefer to not have every media member show up, because then you get the questions like were asked in 2023, where you allow everyone to go there and ask questions, which is how it should be. But if you're the team, of course you don't want that to happen. 00:32:35 Speaker 1: I mean, again, maybe he's been there on a day we haven't been there, but as far as I know, I haven't seen Softie around the ballpark all year, like doing media stuff. I could bet you if there's going to be an impromptu press conference, Softie's going to do the Killian Mbappe meme, which is, I'll be there no matter what. 00:32:55 Speaker 2: Do you know what's going to be a sign for the end of season press conference? Whether or not Dan Wilson is speaking at the end of season press conference. Do you let a lame duck manager speak at an end of season press conference? Honestly, what is he, what is he going to offer? 00:33:15 Speaker 1: Okay. So then when you put it like that, they're going to do one of two things. They're going to do an end of season press conference during the last weekend of the season. And it's going to be impromptu again, or, and it won't involve Dan. It'll be more like 2024 where Jerry just talks for a few minutes or it, will be after the Mariners have made their decision on the future of the manager, and they'll do it after that. 00:33:39 Speaker 2: That's possible. Maybe they'll decide to do that instead so they can, I guess, give a more proper answer to everybody. 00:33:49 Speaker 1: Right. 00:33:49 Speaker 2: We're going to have to wait and see. I think that will be telling on what direction the Mariners are headed in. I just, yeah, I can't see a scenario where, like, if Dan Wilson... is going to get let go or he's going to step away, that he gets a press conference at the end of the season. Because everyone, all the PR staff knows the answer, the questions that he's going. 00:34:09 Speaker 1: To get asked. 00:34:10 Speaker 2: Do you have a job next year? Has Jerry offered you a new contract? What's the status of your contract, Dan? 00:34:16 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:34:17 Speaker 2: Do you know your role going forward? 00:34:18 Speaker 1: No? Yeah, you know, we'll see. Yeah, it'll be something like that. 00:34:26 Speaker 2: That's pretty much how it would go. 00:34:29 Speaker 1: To answer Cheryl's question directly, the Mariners will PR spin it in some way for where they do not use the word fire or let go of Dan Wilson. Whether they should or not, because of the job he's done, because he played 10 plus years in the organization, they're going to PR spin it some way where, yeah, he steps away, he wants to spend more time with family, he's decided that he doesn't want to return in 2027, it's going to be something like that, but We all know what it really means. 00:35:00 Speaker 2: 100%. Pretty clearly. I think everybody sees it exactly that way. Yeah. Okay, before we get to our next mailbag question, let's pause here for a minute. 00:35:14 Speaker 1: Let's compare two players. They're making similar contracts, but you have to pick one guy to be in your lineup. Player 1 hit 300. He had an 840 OPS and a 141 WRC +. 41% better than the league average. Player 2 hit 185. He had a 563 OPS and a 63 WRC +. So who would you pick? The clear answer is Player A, right? because Player A is 2025 Dominic Canzone and Player B is 2022 Abraham Toro. Well, you can apply that same logic to our friends over at Davis Law Group, who offer better service with even better results. Most PI firms charge very similar fees, so why not make it simple and just hire the best? Davis Law Group is your premium option for accident firms. They have an in-house investigation team, they treat every case like it's going to trial, and they have over 700 five-star reviews on Google. Davis Law Group wants you to know your rights in the case of an accident. That's why Chris Davis, the founder of Davis Law Group, wrote a series of Washington accident books. 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His question is, is it maybe time for the Mariners to look at who they get as far as bats this offseason and Focus less on power and more on just contact and speed. 00:37:13 Speaker 1: It's a nice idea, but they essentially tried that in 2024, where they were ridding themselves of a lot of strikeouts, and then the offense was significantly worse. Jorge Polanco was supposed to be a much more contact-oriented player. He started striking out a ton, and some of that was because of injury in 24, but it happened. Mitch Garver wasn't supposed to have a crazy strikeout rate. He was supposed to hit lefties well. He was supposed to do some damage in the middle of the order. That didn't work at all. I think you've got to just go get the best bats and put them on your team. I don't think you can really focus on power versus contact and strikeout versus no strikeout. You simply need the best offensive players. 00:37:55 Speaker 2: I'm with you 100%. I think power is the best course of action for this team. In the modern era of pitching... This team has scored its most runs when it's been hitting for power. And we've talked about this on this podcast a lot. The home park does not favor a slap hitting team with not a lot of power because it's a bad place to single because strikeout rates are higher at home. There's less contact at home. The gaps are small in the outfield. So it's not as prone to doubles or triples. The only thing that, that is somewhat neutral in the grand scheme of baseball is hitting home runs at this ballpark. So whether or not you believe that a generic offensive team could score runs more effectively by hitting for more contact and slapping the ball all over the place, I don't think that's what the Mariners can do. I think if they're going to try and do that in this ballpark, they're going to end up with a team that's not threatening enough and overall probably still bottom 10 in the league in runs scored without any threat to go higher because you just have to string so many more hits together against pitching that's so good. Like, Lyle, how many guys in Major League Baseball right now are hitting 300? 00:39:11 Speaker 1: Oh, it has to be less. 00:39:13 Speaker 2: I always love using this example. If you want to be like a contact-oriented team, I always forget where they put the stats. 00:39:20 Speaker 1: I can find it. It's less than 10, but to answer your question. 00:39:24 Speaker 2: Here, Seven guys currently in Major League Baseball are hitting over 300. 00:39:29 Speaker 1: And only two of them play on the same team. If you're curious, the guys are Louisa rise, who will be a free agent, but I have expressed constantly my extreme concerns with what he would bring to a team like the Mariners with his profile. I don't think it would work well at all. He's not a good defender. Even Ron Washington helped him for four months this year. I don't really buy that he's some elite defender going forward, and his profile does not match well with Seattle and T-Mobile Park at all. He's at the top of the list. Jordan Alvarez is number two, who's going to win the MVP, and he's going nowhere. You have two Rays at number three and number four. Yandy Diaz, great player, but he's about to be 37 and enter free agency. You have Chandler Simpson, who... Look, he's hitting over 300, but Chandler Simpson comes with a lot of his own flaws as a player, too. He literally cannot hit a home run, and his OPS, despite hitting 300, is under 700. And then you have Nick Gonzalez, Otto Lopez, and Gabby Moreno. That's it. Like, you can't really comprise your team of 290 hitters. It doesn't exist anymore. I really... Go ahead. 00:40:40 Speaker 2: One thing they definitely could use is more speed contact, like the, the debate of contact versus power. I think we just laid out. This team does need better base runners. That's flat out. They will score more runs if they have bigger threats on the base paths in a more clean, sound base running approach as a team. Yon. Okay. 00:41:01 Speaker 1: I'm just looking at Yandy Diaz here again. He's going to be in his age 36 season next year. Would you consider him? I don't know where you play them, but do you try to make it work at DH? 00:41:15 Speaker 2: Maybe. Oh, actually, Lyle, another great example. People have complained all season long about Josh Naylor's offense. He's sitting for a high average. 00:41:28 Speaker 1: Oh, true. 00:41:30 Speaker 2: Right. Surely that's worked, right? They've scored more runs? No. No, not at all. 00:41:34 Speaker 1: This is why, and I've always been on Salk's side about this. He would talk about this team all the time, and I think he's right. So many people hated that 2023 Mariners team and that offense specifically because you had all these strikeouts. They had multiple guys on the team, and Tao and Gino, who struck out 200 times in a season, and they were the only tandem in the history of baseball to rack up 200 strikeouts in one season on the same team. You can chalk up all that. That team was top 12 in runs scored. They scored runs. This team is striking out less, a lot less, in 2026, and they're 30th. Just put power on the roster, man. Hit the ball out of the ballpark, draw your walks, and win games like that. That is how modern baseball is won, whether people like it or not. 00:42:21 Speaker 2: Cameron is next up on Patreon and asks, are you guys Star Wars fans? 00:42:26 Speaker 1: Yes. 00:42:27 Speaker 2: If so, what are your favorite Star Wars movies and characters? 00:42:34 Speaker 1: This is probably my coldest take I'll ever have on the podcast. Maybe I've said it before. I actually really like the Phantom Menace and I know a lot of people don't. I think it's a great movie. I really do. That Phantom Menace honestly might be my personal favorite and it's a crazy take. I know people say five and people say three and people say six and I love all those. I guess I just love all the different storylines happening at once and then they all come together at the peak of the movie. Where part of the group's trying to get into the throne room to capture Gunray, and part of the group's trying to beat the droids out on the battlefield. And then you've got Darth Maul, who might be my favorite character, battling Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. You've got Anakin trying to shut down the control... The droid center. Oh, the blockade that's out in space. I think everything happening at once is really fun. So I like one. I.... 00:43:35 Speaker 2: Great movie. I think the best Star Wars movie is... I mean, the best one's number three, but a sneaky best one is Rogue One. Because that combines great storytelling with, like, modern CGI. Which a lot of these old movies don't have. Like, the first three definitely don't have. Like, four, five, and six. Those are more just classics. And then one, two, and three, you're closer... But then you have Rogue One that came out in what, 2017? And it looks, it's just a beautiful movie. So I love it. Definitely not the Mando movie. It was a fine movie, but no. Yeah. 00:44:17 Speaker 1: I think the consensus best Star Wars movie is five. And I guess that's how I'd phrase this. My personal favorite is one. I think the best movie is almost consensus five. 00:44:26 Speaker 2: No? If that's what people prefer, sure. I like three. Cause I like action. 00:44:34 Speaker 1: Oh, three's great. I just think at least from all the discourse I've seen over the years, I always see most people have five at the top of their list. 00:44:44 Speaker 2: I always love a good battle, which is why I appreciate one a lot. Like seeing Darth Maul in live action is fabulous. That duel, the duel of the fates is one of the best pieces of cinema with the music that happens in the star Wars series and 3 also has a great one between, you know, Obi-Wan and Anakin, which is, that's also the problem with the oldest movies. Like, they obviously don't have the technology the newer ones do, so they can't execute it as well. Like, I don't hold it against them too much. Story-wise, 5 might be the best, but I do like the more modern ones. I like the newer ones. 00:45:22 Speaker 1: All right. Sure. 00:45:25 Speaker 2: Pucci Delgado on Patreon asks, how responsible is John Stanton and ownership for hiring Dan Wilson? Or was Dan Wilson and his staff a quote unquote Jerry decision? 00:45:38 Speaker 1: So we've talked about this on some podcasts before. I don't think we have a perfect answer for this. And the reason is we've heard both stories from different people, all of whom we trust. We've heard it was a total Jerry decision. We've also heard it was very much an ownership decision. And by the way, when Dan was hired, if you want some additional context, John Stanton did say, oh, this was totally Jerry's decision. This is what he wanted. But don't take a billionaire's words all at face value. There is very much a world, and I don't know which world it is because we don't know exactly what the story is, but there is very much a world where this was totally ownership's decision. They made Jerry take the arrows for them. They publicly said it was Jerry's decision when really it was theirs. 00:46:33 Speaker 2: The only thing publicly out there that this was is that this was Jerry's decision. And it could have been. But just to back up what Lyle said, everything we say from this point on is speculation. So you can make a case for both. Jerry wants to save his job. Jerry finds someone that he thinks would be a solid manager. that he could hire within the organization and would be an easy yes to ownership. Ownership thinks that, like, Jerry goes to ownership and says, hey, I want to hire a new manager. I don't think Scott's working out. And then ownership tells him, hey, this is the only guy you can hire to be a manager and save your job. And then Jerry has no choice but to do that. Again, all speculation. None of that is fact. None of that we've heard before. just pure speculation for my brain on what could have potentially happened. You could, you could see a scenario where both are true. Well, again, both are true, but that either are true. Well, again, we've heard both stories. So one of them is true. Yeah. But we don't know exactly what. 00:47:38 Speaker 1: Yeah. It is very possible that Stanton and Larson said to Jerry, if you want to save your job, this is who you have to hire as your manager. And then they went out publicly and said, this is totally Jerry's decision. Because again, Owners and billionaires metal. They metal all the time. So it wouldn't shock me at all for them to pin something like that on somebody else. Also wouldn't shock me at all. If Jerry totally went out on his own and actually did this and just said, you know what? I think this will put me in great standing with ownership. Players really like him. He's a quote unquote franchise icon. This'll, this'll be awesome. Everybody will be so happy. But the one thing I'm pretty confident about, it is still technically speculation that, Obviously, we don't really talk to front office, to Jerry and Justin, we should say. We don't really talk to them. But it would not shock me if Jerry now realizes that this was a mistake. I think that maybe he thought more of who Dan Wilson could be as a manager two years ago than what he thinks now. I can't imagine Jerry and Justin in the front office are all that thrilled with how the Dan Wilson tenure is gone. 00:48:49 Speaker 2: You never know. Yeah, you never know. 00:48:52 Speaker 1: Well, if they were happy with it, why is there all of a sudden this idea that he's just done at the end of the year? Because, by the way, Jeff Passon. 00:49:00 Speaker 2: There's no way they're happy about it. 00:49:01 Speaker 1: No. Jeff Passon was just on Brock and Salk this week and basically said, Dan's done. He was talking about next steps for the manager, or next steps for the Mariners, and he said, well, it starts with the manager, and he's almost certainly going to be out. That's what Passon said. I would take Passon's words seriously. 00:49:21 Speaker 2: I would too. 00:49:22 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:49:22 Speaker 2: Give my eyes peeled to my notifications. Okay. Let's close out this mailbag with Alex on Patreon. Alex's question is what baseball podcast you to listen to. How much at all do you follow other content creators who follow the Mariners? 00:49:42 Speaker 1: A lot. We know, first off on the Mariners piece, we know most of the Mariners people that post content about the Mariners or Seattle sports. Like, I mean, just to shout out a couple of our friends and there's a bunch of them, but we're in a group chat with our buddy West Coast Willie and then Jake, who's Jake's takes on social media. Like the four of us are all in a group chat and we talk, pretty much every day about the Mariners. So like those are a couple, obviously you guys know that Ty and Colby have been on with us before we've been on with them before. So we know the locked on guys. We know the Mariner Mojo guys. Um, yeah, Ben Ranieri. Like we know, we know most of them and everybody's great. 00:50:26 Speaker 2: The Mariners content community is pretty tight. Most people get along with each other. Perfectly fine. Um, it's very, it is a very supportive community. So, Plenty of interaction between those. In terms of other baseball podcasts I listen to, my most consumed podcast besides ours is Brock and Salk. I guess that counts as a baseball podcast because they talk about baseball a ton during the season. If I'm listening to a baseball-specific podcast, it's probably the Just Baseball show. 00:50:58 Speaker 1: And again, we're not just saying that because we're part of the network. It's because they crush it with their podcasts four or five days a week, every week. They really are great. I mean, they're charismatic, and they're relatable. They're TJ and I's age. Again, we've all known each other since we were college interns in the Cape Cod League, and they've built this behemoth of a baseball brand, and they're killing it. But it's not just the Just Baseball guys. Just in terms of baseball content, even when you get outside the Mariner space, one of the coolest things that TJ and I have gotten to do by doing baseball content for a living is get to meet a whole lot of people that do baseball content. 00:51:35 Speaker 2: So. 00:51:35 Speaker 1: I mean, other podcasts that are out there that I've listened to. I mean, again, back when they had the 3-0 show with The Athletic and it was, you know, Saris and Derek Van Ryper. That was a great show. And obviously we know Karabas and Dallas Braden both. So I'll listen to Baseball is Dead sometimes. I always feel bad because we know so many people in baseball content and you can't dedicate enough time to watching everybody play. All the time. Because you've got your own stuff to do. But there's so many other people that don't even do podcasts for baseball. But we watch their baseball stuff. Trevor Mays stuff we watch. And our friend Jacob from Made the Cut we watch. And DeSarm stuff we watch. And the Bat Boys stuff we watch. And Kate for Baseball for Baddies we watch. And like we've gotten to know all these people to a certain level. Which is really cool. And I'm sure there's people I'm still leaving out. But yeah we watch a lot. And we've gotten to connect with a lot of different people. 00:52:31 Speaker 2: It's fun to be part of a community. Like most people know, like when you find your people and you get along with your people, it makes life a lot better. 00:52:38 Speaker 1: Yeah, 100%. And again, to any people we're leaving out from the national scope, there's so many others. But yeah, like there's a lot of great ones out there. Anyway, good mailbag as always. Good questions. Again, the mix of baseball and non-baseball is always fun. You guys always bring it. And if you guys want your questions answered, Go sign up for our Patreon and you get your mailbag question answered every single week. With that, that'll just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Layer Podcast. You guys know the drill. If you want to listen to the full-form podcast, you can do so wherever you get your audio pods. Download if you're listening. Make sure to go rate and review five stars. It helps a ton. Go also subscribe if you're watching on YouTube. You can also check everything out at our website, marinelayerpod.com. Episodes are all there. Patreon's there. Podcast merch is all there. That's marinelayerpod.com. Then find us all across social media. We're posting content every day at MarineLayerPod. That's TJ. I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon.