Episode 457: Here's Why We Would Bring Back Randy Arozarena In 2027.... And Why We Wouldn't

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number 457 of the Marine Layer podcast. The Mariners head to Anaheim in their penultimate week of the season and have lost the first two games of the series. We'll also talk about why we would want and why we wouldn't want the Mariners to bring Randy Rosarena back in 2027. 00:00:16 Speaker 2: Reminder to you guys before we start this episode, just make sure you do us a couple favors. Make sure to download these podcasts. If you're listening, make sure to go rate and review five stars. Go hit subscribe on YouTube. You can also find everything over at our website, which is at marinelayerpod.com. Our merch, Patreon, episodes, it's all over there. And then find us across social media too. We're everywhere and we're posting content every day at marinelayerpod. 00:00:39 Speaker 1: Let's get it rolling. Let's get it rolling. And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network, recording here on Tuesday evening, September 15th. Lyle, 10 games left. 00:01:07 Speaker 2: 10 games. 10 measly games. 00:01:10 Speaker 1: That's all we have left of the 2026 Mariners. 00:01:13 Speaker 2: Thank God. Thank God, dude. Put this entire season in a bucket and throw it into the bottom of the lake. 00:01:20 Speaker 1: Bottom of the ocean. Deepest... Lake's not shallow enough. Lake's not deep enough. 00:01:25 Speaker 2: All right. So Lake Union doesn't do it justice. Can you go Puget Sound or can you full go Pacific Ocean? 00:01:31 Speaker 1: Dude, I'm launching this shit into the Pacific Ocean. 00:01:34 Speaker 2: Okay. 00:01:34 Speaker 1: Fully into the Pacific. 00:01:35 Speaker 2: All right. So you're going out to like the Olympics or whatever the western part of the state is and dropping it all the way. 00:01:41 Speaker 1: But that's not even in the ocean. I'm going like out. I'm going to like Japan. 00:01:46 Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah. 00:01:47 Speaker 1: We're getting as far away as humanly possible. 00:01:49 Speaker 2: I mean, that's fine with me. Again, I mean, just what do you even say about these two games? We basically said on Sunday on social media, what do you even say about how the way Sunday ended? What do you even say about these two games? You're playing arguably the worst team in the entire sport in the Angels. You dropped two games, I mean, on Monday. You put up four runs, but Kate Anderson got knocked around again. And then here on Tuesday against Ryan Johnson, of all people, you push across one run. 00:02:14 Speaker 1: I'll give Ryan Johnson a little bit of credit. He had been pitching incredibly well in the last few weeks. So they were facing an arm that's been pitching well. And this is an Angels pitching staff that, you know, they made a coaching change. They saw their pitching staff, their pitching, their coaching staff around their pitchers, their top three pitching coaches, I believe they let go. And since then have had the second best pitching staff in Major League Baseball. 00:02:37 Speaker 2: Coaching changes, GM change, ownership change. 00:02:41 Speaker 1: It's amazing how that works. And all of a sudden, their process improved significantly. 00:02:44 Speaker 2: Oh. Wow. That's how that works? 00:02:48 Speaker 1: Because the new people in charge had a vision for what they wanted and went out to execute it without much of attachment to the current product. 00:02:57 Speaker 2: I know what you were about to say, and you just stopped yourself short. You were about to be like, well, that's a competent org. Oh, wait. No, it's not. 00:03:03 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely not a competent org. Well, maybe once Kroenke assumes full ownership next year, it'll be a little bit different. 00:03:09 Speaker 2: Again, Angels made a lot of changes this year. Their season is really bad. As a whole, it's really bad. What they've done in the last few weeks, it's a lot better. Because you're right. I shouldn't shortchange Ryan Johnson. I really shouldn't shortchange this Angels pitching staff because all of a sudden they've turned it around in the second half really, really well. They pitched better than the Mariners in the second half. I know. 00:03:29 Speaker 1: Well, that's not very hard to do. I think the only teams that have been consistently worse than the Mariners in the second half are the A's and the Rockies. Yeah. I don't think those are the two teams you want to be associated with. Pitching wasn't a problem today. The problem today was that the Mariners offense had two extra base hits. Ironically, Lyle, those led to the only two runs of the game. Remember that conversation we had on Friday about slap hitting versus power hitting? I think tonight's game was a pretty good example of that. The Mariners had five non-slug hits that yielded zero runs. 00:03:59 Speaker 2: I just don't know what it's going to take to get through to people on this power versus contact conversation. I don't know how we can say this any clearer. T... Mobile Park suppresses singles and doubles. Not home runs. It suppresses singles and doubles because the gaps are small and the baseballs are left up in the air. Even if you are a person who fully believes that a contact-oriented approach works better in baseball... and works better against modern pitching, it doesn't work in Seattle. It doesn't. Somebody left us a comment on the clip we posted on the power versus contact topic, how we said, no, they need to just go and get power and hit home runs and draw your walks and let the strikeouts lie where they may because that's how you win modern baseball games. We have people leaving us comments about the Rays and the Brewers, and they do it by contact. 00:04:47 Speaker 1: Right. 00:04:48 Speaker 2: Those teams don't play in T-Mobile Park. Those teams play in offensive environments that don't kill singles and doubles. T-Mobile Park kills singles and doubles. The only way you can really beat that ballpark is by hitting the ball out of the yard. 2023, for as many problems as that team had, they were 12th in runs scored because they hit home runs. 00:05:09 Speaker 1: If you wanted to make a case to me that you wanted to bring in more guys that could hit doubles... I might be a little more open to the subject because the Mariners are like last in the league in doubles. I think they could improve on that if they wanted to. But with doubles, would hopefully come along with some home runs as well where you're hoping you get maybe a 30-double, 20-homer season. That would be a really refreshing thing. I mean, that's something you want Randy Rosarena to do. 00:05:36 Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll talk about him. I will say this. If you're somebody of the mindset and of the opinion that the Mariners' defense has been so atrocious this season, which it has, that you want to build your team next year more along the lines of, well, let's just build up a team of great defenders and see if that improves the rotation and their success, and if it improves the defense and the saved runs and their success. and that leads to more wins. I can be open-minded to that conversation, where you build this team on just great defenders, and you rack up war and wins that way. Because there's nothing in T-Mobile Park that stops you from playing great defense. There is things in T-Mobile Park and in Seattle, however, that stop you from hitting a lot of singles and doubles. So again, if you are somebody of the mindset that, well, just hit for average and... Hit for contact and forget about the power. That doesn't work in T-Mobile Park. It doesn't. 00:06:24 Speaker 1: Well, what I really think this team needs overall, and it could improve them in many areas of the rosters, they need more athletes up and down. 00:06:32 Speaker 2: Yes. 00:06:33 Speaker 1: And not even just physically imposing guys. They need more guys who can run. Right. And I'm hoping the guys who can run do also come along with a little bit more power. But if I could just get some more guys that could run, that would be nice, too. Because... If you look up and down, there's very few plus runners on this team. And that also contributes to them not scoring enough runs when you're not creating runs on the base paths as well. Part of the reason the Rays and Brewers are so good at what they do is that they're able to be much better when they're running the bases and they're able to gain five runs in a month because they just have guys who are able to get that extra base that the Mariners are not because they don't run fast enough. 00:07:13 Speaker 2: Let me say this again. We said it, I think, on Friday. I'll say it here. There are currently... Seven qualified hitters in Major League Baseball hitting 300. That's it. Luisa Rice, Yordan Alvarez, Chandler Simpson, who is OPSing less than 700. Good player, does some things well, but he's not like a catalyst of an offensive player. 00:07:34 Speaker 1: You can have a player like Chandler Simpson on your roster. 00:07:36 Speaker 2: Right, correct. Chandler Simpson does a lot of things well, but you can't build your team of Chandler Simpsons and then pass him. Nick Gonzalez, Otto Lopez, Gabby Moreno, and TJ Rumfield. Shout out to him. 00:07:47 Speaker 1: Someone like a Nick Gonzalez is where this example really hits home. At least Chandler Simpson has an elite tool. No one's faster than he does, and he hits 300, where you'd be like, all right, Billy Hamilton hits 300. You'd probably take him in your lineup because you know that he's going to reach base enough, and he's going to cause havoc when he does get on base. A Nick Gonzalez, for example... Hits 300, but doesn't have elite tools otherwise. Like, he's not the world's greatest defender. He's not hitting for a ton of power. It's just average, right? How much value does he really have? If it comes along with another elite tool, then that works. If it doesn't, then it's a little bit harder to sell. Yeah. 00:08:26 Speaker 2: I could buy into one Chandler Simpson, but not building your team of Chandler Simpsons. I really like Chandler Simpson. Like, really fun player. Good dude, too. We got to talk to him this year. He can't comprise nine spots on a roster. He just can't. So I would say if you are somebody that wants to see better defense and more athletes on the team, totally fair. And I think that's a conversation we could absolutely have this offseason because that probably means not bringing back J.P. Crawford. It means letting Randy walk. It means potentially trading Luke Raley. I mean, you know, there's a couple guys that won't go anywhere. Naylor, Cal. I mean, Cal's a good athlete behind the plate. Cam Zone's not going anywhere with the way he's hit. But, you know, again, J.P. probably doesn't come back. You may trade Raley. You don't bring back Randy. You're certainly not bringing back Weston Wilson or Patrick Wisdom or players like that. You're building your bench and your margin pieces of the roster of guys that are way better athletes. And then you pair it with Cole Young and Colt Emerson. players of that, and Julio, obviously, I shouldn't leave him out, and players of that regard to build more athletes on the team. 00:09:27 Speaker 1: And you're hoping Colt Emerson is one of those athletes you add to this roster last year where you don't get to see it as much this year because he's frankly not hitting, and it's hard to be an athlete if you're not on base. 00:09:37 Speaker 2: Right. Agreed. But that's a little bit of side talk from the result of getting two extra base hits when you score one run in a one-run loss to the Angels, which now, by the way, Here's a fun fact for you. The Mariners are now 2-8 this season in one-run games against the Angels, A's, and Royals. 00:09:55 Speaker 1: That's insane. Yeah, yeah. 00:09:57 Speaker 2: I mean, not just record against those teams. That's their record in one-run games against those teams. Angels, A's, and Royals, three bottom feeders of the league, 2-8 in one-run games. None of those teams have good bullpens, by the way. 00:10:10 Speaker 1: It's really bad, Lyle. 00:10:11 Speaker 2: It's really bad. Oh, by the way, one more stat, just for fun, is they've lost the first two games here in Anaheim. This team is 30 and 47 on the road this year. There's 17 games under 500 away from T-Mobile Park. I mean, just chalk it up to their laundry list of problems here in 2026, which, by the way, is not that different from 2025 when they also had road problems. Like 30 and 47. 00:10:39 Speaker 1: That's what bad teams. What are the worst road records in baseball this season? Is that a quick lookup? I don't know if it is. Maybe it's on the MLB standings. If I pull standings, I have road. So the Angels are 26-49 on the road. That's really bad. It's not that much worse than the Mariners. It's still three games worse. 00:11:03 Speaker 2: Not that much worse. 00:11:04 Speaker 1: No, not that much worse. The Royals are 27-49. Mm-hmm. Usually the Rockies are the one. Yeah, Rockies are 25 and 53 on the road. Oh, good. 00:11:16 Speaker 2: So the teams we're comparing the Mariners road record to are the exact teams you never want to be in the same sentence with. The Angels, the A's, and the Rockies. 00:11:24 Speaker 1: No, you don't. And an update for you, Lyle, on the easy September schedule that was in theory supposed to put the Mariners in the playoffs. They're now six and eight. 00:11:34 Speaker 2: Six and eight. 00:11:35 Speaker 1: Six and eight against the worst teams in baseball in September. 00:11:38 Speaker 2: I mean, it's unbelievable. I mean, look, they're still going to play the Rockies and they're still going to play the Angels a few more times, but you lose the A's series and you've now lost the Angels series. When everybody said, just wait till September, just wait till September and feast on the schedule. By the way, maybe these teams you're playing in September have some of their own strengths. I mean, it's partly in, well, mainly in regard to how horrendous this team has been all year long and now in September as well. Just getting worse in September. But again, this narrative that, well, just wait it out. I feel like these easy schedule narratives never work out the way you think it's going to. This isn't the NFL. 00:12:17 Speaker 1: Last year, it did. 00:12:18 Speaker 2: Last year, yeah. 00:12:19 Speaker 1: Last year, they had an atrocious strength of schedule until that Dodgers series at the end, and they won almost every game. 00:12:25 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess that's fair. I just heard Passan talking about this recently, that it's easy to buy into that narrative and it works out less often than you think. Again, it's not the NFL. The NFL, when you're getting a one-game sample against one team on one Sunday, usually the odds shake out a little bit better to favor the best team. Obviously, the term any given Sunday is real for a reason and there's upsets, but I don't know, man. It just feels like it doesn't shake out the same way a lot of times in baseball. And the Mariners are proving it right now, 6-8. 00:12:53 Speaker 1: The difference between this year and last year, though, with that is that at least the Mariners last year had shown you on the field against better teams that they had the ability to play well above average baseball where you said, okay, this team has actually shown us that ability and now they're playing atrocious teams down the stretch and they're incredibly talented because they added so many players at the deadline. This is where we think it's going to turn around. as opposed to this year where they haven't shown you any ability to play any good games. And your only justification of why they're going to play well against these bad teams is that the teams across from you are bad little to, you know, some people forget that this team is also just, it's just bad. It's a bad baseball team. Now they've gotten worse as the weeks have gone on. 00:13:36 Speaker 2: They're a bad baseball team. Just say it plain and simple. The 2026 Seattle Mariners are a bad baseball team. 00:13:41 Speaker 1: Yes. 00:13:42 Speaker 2: They might be talented on paper, but they're a bad baseball team. And back to that, power versus contact conversation, whether you want more contact or power or not, another thing that just totally killed them all year is this team is objectively supposed to be built on some power. The Mariners are supposed to hit for some power. Well, they're 14th in the league in home runs. They're middle of the pack. Not only are they 30th in the league in runs scored, and they're not scoring, the way they usually rely on themselves to score, they're not doing it. They're not top 10 in the league in home runs. They're not top 7 in home runs. They are right in the middle of the pack. They rank along with The Giants and the Pirates and the Twins. I mean, you're supposed to have more power than those teams. They don't. 00:14:23 Speaker 1: Well, last year they were third. This year they're not. You can always offset that by walking more, by hitting more doubles. But the Mariners don't do enough of those. And that's why they just don't score enough runs or pitch or run the bases or play defense or make correct decisions or really anything. 00:14:37 Speaker 2: Or have accountability or communicate well or focus. 00:14:40 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:14:41 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:14:41 Speaker 1: Just none of the above. Okay, we have an overlying topic to this podcast episode, which is, I think, a little bit more conversational than this current iteration of the Mariners because I don't really know how much there is left to say about this team as they continue to lose over and over again to bad teams. Before we get to that, I want to shout out to our friends at Corona for sponsoring these podcast tapings here at Hall Locations throughout the 2026 season. A reminder to check out the Corona Beach Bar on the left field concourse at T-Mobile Park. And while you're there, you can check out the Corona family of brands. There's Corona Premier, which is the lighter than light option, the Corona Sun Brew option, the easy drinking flavored beverage. There's Corona NA, which is the only true non-alcoholic option. And then there's Corona Extra, which you can see right here in front of us, available to drink at all hall locations and at the ballpark, which is the option that takes everyone back to a beach or to the ballpark. Want to give a huge shout out again for Corona being with us for the second consecutive season and hopefully many more. 00:15:40 Speaker 2: Shout out to Corona. We love working with them. We love doing these live events. And while we're here at the hall, let's give a little plug to the hall's upcoming Burger of the Month, which will be in theme of October and Oktoberfest. They've got what they're calling the Bavarian Smash Burger, which will be the Burger of the Month across all hall locations at the month of October. If you want the description of the burger, it'll be two smashed beef patties, and it'll be topped with melted cheese. I am really bad at pronunciations. 00:16:06 Speaker 1: It's Gruyere cheese. 00:16:08 Speaker 2: You're better with the cuisine, so I'll let you say the cheese. Anyway, Gruyere, right? 00:16:13 Speaker 1: Gruyere is correct. 00:16:15 Speaker 2: Okay, melted Gruyere cheese, smoky bacon, tangy sauerkraut, and there's also beer braised caramelized onions, house beer mustard aioli on a warm pretzel bun. So, yeah, for a theme of Oktoberfest and an Oktoberburger, it's a smash burger served on a pretzel bun, and it's going to be at all the hall locations throughout the month. Go check them out. We'll certainly be trying them ourselves. 00:16:36 Speaker 1: Did a great job. 00:16:37 Speaker 2: Good. 00:16:37 Speaker 1: Good job. 00:16:38 Speaker 2: Well, I don't want to butcher a name of a cheese, so I just usually refer to you on that stuff. You know that stuff. You're a foodie. I'm not. 00:16:46 Speaker 1: Let's get into the topic of Randy Orozarena and what's going to happen about, what is it, 13 days? No, it's 12 days we have left in the season. 10 games, 12 days. So that's what we have left. Once those 12 days expire, Randy Orozarena will be a free agent once the postseason ends. I wanted us to list out reasons here today why you would and why you wouldn't bring back Randy Rosarena. I think there is a case on both sides. I want to lay it out as we're watching potentially the final 10 games of Randy Rosarena in a Mariners uniform. Where would you like to start? 00:17:21 Speaker 2: Do you want to list off each of our bullet points first, or do you just want to go by talking points? 00:17:26 Speaker 1: I think we should go by talking points. 00:17:27 Speaker 2: Okay. 00:17:30 Speaker 1: Let's start in the wood category. Why would you bring Randy Orozarena back? 00:17:34 Speaker 2: Okay, so again, you want one talking point or you want to just list them all out? 00:17:37 Speaker 1: Let's just do one talking point at a time within the greater subject. 00:17:42 Speaker 2: Okay, first one I listed out. Randy Orozarena has been the second best offensive outfielder in Major League Baseball this season. Not left fielder, just outfielder. The only man he trails by WRC Plus and by FWAR. is the man who's going to win the MVP of the National League in Pete Crow Armstrong. It goes PCA and then Randy. If you want to look at by F4, Randy's tied with Fernando Tatis Jr. They're equal in F4, but they are tied for second, trailing only PCA. And by WRC +, Randy is the second best offensive outfielder in Major League Baseball behind only Pete Crow Armstrong. 00:18:16 Speaker 1: That is quite a compelling case. My first bullet point. I wrote down is that the reason I would bring Randy Roser in a bat is because the Mariners have a legit concern of quality baseball players on their roster for next season. If you are going to list out by F war players, you are confident in producing three F war for the Mariners next year. I only have two based on the performances of this season. It's only Callan Julio. I can't even write down Cole Young for F war because, because Cole Young hasn't, as good as his season has been, solid as his season has been, hasn't produced three at four this season. If you do buy B-War, Cole Young is added to that list. That's three of the nine starting players on your roster next year that are projected to have more than three war. And three war is where you border on an all-star player, but not even necessarily guarantees an all-star bid. And you need more of those players next year if you're going to want to succeed. 00:19:17 Speaker 2: And this year, Cal and Julio aren't even going to get there. Now, you expect them to both get back to that next year. To three war? Oh, I don't think either of them are getting to three war this year. 00:19:27 Speaker 1: Cal, maybe not. Julio's not at three war. 00:19:29 Speaker 2: I mean, again, the offense has not been there. 00:19:32 Speaker 1: Julio's probably going to end exactly with three. He's at 2.8 right now. 00:19:36 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah. Cal, unlikely. Anyway. That's it, man. Now, if you're only counting position players, that's it. You might think Brian Wu will get back there next year, Logan Gilbert will go back there next year. Yeah, Cal's at a two-war right now, so he won't get there. 00:19:50 Speaker 1: But the pitching talent I'm not concerned with next year, the offensive talent I absolutely am. 00:19:54 Speaker 2: For sure. 00:19:55 Speaker 1: The position players on this team need to bring value in a ton of different spots, hitting, base running, and defense. All that value gets combined into F4, and frankly, next year, projecting out the roster, the Mariners don't have a ton of that going into 2027 at this moment. 00:20:12 Speaker 2: Which brings me to my next talking point for why bringing back Randy Rosarino would be a positive, which is this team already sucks against left-handed pitching. They are 30th in Major League Baseball against left-handed pitching this year by Team OPS. I know Randy hasn't hit lefties phenomenally this year, but the Mariners already lack right-handed bats to begin with. They are already a major, major Achilles heel for this team. Left-handed pitching. Losing Randy Orozarena doesn't feel like it would help that cause. You're 30th already. What happens if you lose the man? Doesn't get better. 00:20:49 Speaker 1: Randy... I'm trying to find out. 00:20:52 Speaker 2: Again, he has not hit lefties great this year. But, again, he usually has in his career. And if you lose him, who are the right-handed bats in this lineup? You have a switch-hitting Cal. And then you'll have Julio. 00:21:06 Speaker 1: I think Randy's undergone quite the.... 00:21:10 Speaker 2: Right, but even answer me this question. You lose Randy in free agency this year. No, Randy's turned it around against lefties. Oh, so there you go. There was a point where he wasn't really hitting against lefties. Point being, Cal, Julio, literally who are even the other right-handed bats in the lineup? Naylor, lefty. Cole Young, lefty. Emerson, lefty. Donovan, lefty. No, absolutely not. Rayleigh Lefty, Canzone Lefty, who's hit lefties better, but it's a small sample. I mean, Las Montes Lefty. Dude, you don't have righties. You are already atrocious against left-handed pitching with Randy. 00:21:45 Speaker 1: And I'm not penciling Michael Arroyo into that bucket of proven right-handed hitters next year. Yeah. 00:21:50 Speaker 2: Yeah, Randy's hitting 950 OPS-wise against lefties. 00:21:53 Speaker 1: I know. 00:21:53 Speaker 2: He's really turning around. 00:21:54 Speaker 1: WRC Plus is 168. I swear there was a moment a month ago I checked, and it was like 100 on the dot because the team as a whole just was not hitting lefties. Safe to say Randy's numbers against lefties at this point, look, Pretty good, and I feel bad because I've been talking about Randy not hitting lefties. So, yes, Randy has hit lefties this season. There's no reason. If you're losing him going into next season and you don't add right-handed bats in the offseason, legitimately how are you going to hit left-handed pitching next year? 00:22:21 Speaker 2: I mean, again, bringing back Taylor Ward doesn't count. He's proven that this year. 00:22:25 Speaker 1: No, it does not. All right, my next bullet point. If you miss out on, say, a Suzuki or Ian Happ, you're screwed. 00:22:33 Speaker 2: And by the way, I like Happ as a player. I'd be really excited if they brought him in. But he's not really going to solve your platoon issue. Ian Happ is a switch hitter, but he doesn't really hit lefties very well. He, I know, does not hit lefties well for his career or really this season. Don't get this twisted. I would be very excited if they brought in Ian Happ because he's a good player. You can pencil him into left field. He'll play you really good defense. He hits toward the top of the lineup, but he doesn't really solve your issue against left-handed pitching. To your point, though, you miss out on those guys, yeah. Then what? You have to go trade for somebody. 00:23:08 Speaker 1: And the trade option, as we talked about, I think clear as day would be Riley Green in that exact role. Green's not a perfect player, but he's about as good as you'll get on this trade market. The problem is you don't even know if he's available, and he costs you players off your own team, which could potentially balance out the fact you get Riley Green, you're going to lose potentially a pitcher on the way. 00:23:30 Speaker 2: And? 00:23:30 Speaker 1: Yes. 00:23:32 Speaker 2: Not a great hitter against lefties. Not awful, but if you go from a 950 OPS bat against lefties and Randy Rosarena to what's roughly a 690 to 700 OPS against lefties and Riley Green, that's a major drop-off. Again, they're 30th right now in team OPS against lefties. What happens if you lose, Randy? And you replace him with a lefty. 00:23:51 Speaker 1: Do you want to guess, according to Spotrack, like as I was browsing, like the other best options for left fielders? Why don't you enlighten the people? I mean, Lourdes Gurriel Jr. is one of them, but he just got DFA'd. 00:24:03 Speaker 2: You know what's funny about that? I was just saying to you a couple hours before recording, as we were sitting here watching Tuesday's game here at the Hall at Moss Bay Hall in Kirkland, was on the idea of like a minor league deal or a flyer. I'd actually be totally in on the idea of the Mariners taking a shot on Lourdes Gurriel. However, if he plans to hit free agency and seek an actual contract, you probably can't commit real dollars to the guy because, again, he played badly enough to get DFA'd this year. I'd be interested in him on a minor league deal or a one-year major league deal for pretty minimal money, but not if you have to pay him real coin. 00:24:40 Speaker 1: George Springer's an option. He'll be 37 next year. And probably is just a full-time DH at this point. Yeah. 00:24:48 Speaker 2: I mean, and he hasn't had a great year in his own right, right? I mean, maybe he's turned it around a little bit in the last couple of months, but as far as I'm concerned. 00:24:55 Speaker 1: He's not been an early part of his contract bad, but he's definitely not been as good as he was last year. 00:24:59 Speaker 2: No, first half of the year it was much worse, but still, for the year, 253 average, 745 OPS, a 104 OPS plus with 15 homers at age 36. Yeah, that feels a little tough. 00:25:11 Speaker 1: And then the last option, you'll be thrilled to hear this one. Taylor Ward? 00:25:16 Speaker 2: No. 00:25:17 Speaker 1: I don't think he's getting re-signed. No. Watch, the Mariners are going to go into this offseason and they're going to sign Taylor Ward on the Jorge Polanco contract. The 2025 Polanco contract, which ended up working out. I mean, it ended up working out for the Mariners, but that's how the Mariners are going to spin it and sell it. It's like, you know... Taylor was just really banged up last year. We're actually really, really optimistic about his 2027 ability to perform for the Mariners. 00:25:46 Speaker 2: If they gave Taylor Ward one year for five and a half million like they gave Polanco. I wouldn't be thrilled, but I could live with it. I thought for a second you meant the Mets Polanco contract. And I was like, if the Mariners gave Taylor Ward two years for $ 40 million, I think my head would explode on the spot. 00:26:04 Speaker 1: But would you be a happy camper if the Mariners lost Randy Rosarena in free agency and Taylor Ward's penciled as your everyday left fielder based on what you've seen? 00:26:11 Speaker 2: No. 00:26:12 Speaker 1: No. Yeah, I don't think I would either. 00:26:14 Speaker 2: Sorry, let me be even more blunt. Unacceptable. 00:26:17 Speaker 1: There's always a chance Taylor Ward is actually not healthy this year and he turns it around and he performs a lot better. But I don't want to go into next season on like hope. Like hope for me is out the window. I'm down for some results here. Which is why Randy, why this is a case for bringing back Randy or Rosarena because if you bring Randy back, We'll talk about some of the negatives of it. He's going to put up a 120 WRC +. He's going to hit 20 home runs. He's going to steal 20 bases. And he's going to play bad defense. I can guarantee you that's what he's going to do next year. But he would be a quality player in the Mariners lineup. 00:26:57 Speaker 2: I won't quite guarantee it, but yes, likely. Likely. I do have an idea for a right-handed bat the Mariners could absolutely sign this winter. but he's not an outfielder. And this is a topic for another day, but that would be Yandy Diaz because a little older, he's going to cost some money. He would have to be a DH. I would be intrigued, but let me be very clear. If the Mariners were to sign Randy Rosarena's mortal enemy in Yandy Diaz, Randy Rosarena will not be back here next year. 00:27:23 Speaker 1: So maybe you put that in the other category, why the Mariners wouldn't bring Randy Rosarena back because they want Yandy Diaz in free agency. 00:27:31 Speaker 2: Those two will not be playing on a team together. 00:27:32 Speaker 1: No, they will definitely not. All right, your last point. Do you have a last point? 00:27:36 Speaker 2: My last point on Randy Orozarena is for a team that has already lacked home run power this year. Randy Orozarena has accounted for 15% of the team's home runs on his own. That's a decent chunk. That's like a sixth of the home runs the team's hit this year have all been in favor of Randy Orozarena. Now, do you expect Cal to hit more next year? 00:27:55 Speaker 1: Yes. 00:27:56 Speaker 2: Do you expect Julio to hit a few more next year? 00:27:57 Speaker 1: Yes. 00:27:58 Speaker 2: Do you expect Naylor to hit a few more? Yes. 00:28:00 Speaker 1: But. 00:28:01 Speaker 2: That's a lot of home run power you're losing for a team that is reliant on the home run ball and needs to be reliant on the home run ball, as we talked about in this podcast. 00:28:09 Speaker 1: And he's also accounted for, let me do some math here, because we're talking about they need more doubles. So he has 30 of 187 of their doubles. 00:28:18 Speaker 2: I got a phone next to me. I can calculate it. We're not going to actually do math as ASU majors, but here. 00:28:23 Speaker 1: 16% of their doubles. 00:28:24 Speaker 2: Okay, so 15% of the homers and 16% of the doubles. 00:28:27 Speaker 1: For a team that already doesn't have enough of both. 00:28:31 Speaker 2: There's a compelling case. There is. What's your last point? 00:28:36 Speaker 1: My last one is that you are letting a historical Mariner season walk in free agency. This is where Randy Rosarena ranks in Mariners franchise history by war among outfielders. Here are the only players that have had a higher war in a single season than 2026 Randy Rosarena. Ken Griffey Jr., Ichiro, Julio, Mike Cameron, Franklin Gutierrez, and Mitch Hanegar. Of those players, Ken Griffey Jr., Julio, Mike Cameron, and Guti all played center field. So they instantly get a war boost because they play a more valuable position with lower quality replacement level players, which puts Randy Arrozarena's season into context with Mitch Hanegar and Ichiro Suzuki as the greatest corner outfield seasons in Mariners franchise history. There's always a chance that Randy Rosarena's contract with his next team works out. What if it does work out? Or sorry, that it won't work out with the old team, but what if it does work out? out and Randy continues to produce at a level similar to this for a couple of seasons that you could really use. 00:29:46 Speaker 2: Then you get a massive boost in your offense for a team that already needs it and is going to need more of it this winter by the way they've proven that they need to add an addition to Randy on offense If you lose Randy, you have to find somebody to replace him that you think is going to be of close to equal value offensively or by some total value as a player, defense, speed, however you want to calculate how many wins they'll bring to the table. And then you still need more offense. So if you bring Randy back, you still need another middle of the order back. And if you don't bring Randy back, you need two of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Mitch Hanegar only had that six-win season one year. One year in 2018. Yeah, that was his all-star year. 00:30:26 Speaker 1: Not a whole lot of great seasons in Mariners history. 00:30:31 Speaker 2: I mean, not by players, not by team. 00:30:34 Speaker 1: Not by managers. 00:30:35 Speaker 2: No. 00:30:36 Speaker 1: I remember we highlighted it last off. See, a Mariners managerial history is bad. 00:30:42 Speaker 2: This one will rank up there. 00:30:44 Speaker 1: Do you remember we did our list at the end of last season of top five Mariners managers? 00:30:49 Speaker 2: And the tomfoolery in your brain to put Dan Wilson as the second greatest manager in Mariners history. I'm sorry. 00:30:55 Speaker 1: You had him at number three. 00:30:56 Speaker 2: No, I had him at four. 00:30:58 Speaker 1: No, he was at number three for you. 00:30:59 Speaker 2: Oh, I think I started the list with him straight off it. And you bullied me into putting him on it because they made the playoffs with them. 00:31:07 Speaker 1: But I would say things can change in 365 days. I'd like to announce that Dan Wilson is off my top five Mariners manager list officially. 00:31:18 Speaker 2: Dan, never wrong, boys. Boys and girls, just early. I had him off my list last year, and you bullied me into putting him on. Well, maybe. 00:31:28 Speaker 1: I mean, the Mariners have had a lot of incompetent managers. Maybe we can put like the top four of Lou Service, Bob Melvin. 00:31:41 Speaker 2: Well, Bob Melvin didn't win anything here. He was only here two years. 00:31:44 Speaker 1: Well, maybe I'm just going to give him credit for his other teams. 00:31:47 Speaker 2: And Lloyd for being Robbie and Nelly's manager. 00:31:49 Speaker 1: Lloyd for being the manager when Robinson Cano and Nelson Cruz were there. And then we can group every other Mariners manager in history at number five because they're all pretty bad. 00:31:59 Speaker 2: Okay, sure. 00:32:00 Speaker 1: But fundamentally, I mean, Dan and what's his name? Tim LaFever? 00:32:04 Speaker 2: No, no, no, no. 00:32:06 Speaker 1: Maury Wills? Maury Wills. Maybe the most, like, unqualified managers. 00:32:11 Speaker 2: Good Lord. 00:32:12 Speaker 1: Because they just didn't have the execution to– To manage. All right. Should we get to why we wouldn't bring Randy or Rosarena back? 00:32:24 Speaker 2: Sure. And there's a few here. I will say, number one, he is entering his age 32 season. If he gets a three-year deal, there is a chance he lives up to that contract pretty well, given who Randy is, given who his agent is. For those of you who haven't heard or have been living under a rock, that is one Scott Boris. Something tells me they'll be looking for longer than a three-year deal. And I bet you Scott's going to try to get five out of Randy. And if it's a five-year deal for Randy Rosarena entering his age 32 season, I think I'm out. 00:32:55 Speaker 1: You added a bullet point for me. Reason why Randy Rosarena won't come back is Scott Boris. Or why I wouldn't bring Randy Rosarena back. That's on my list. Oh, you already wrote that down. I did not. So I'm going to jump the line from Lyle and say Scott Boris is a reason I wouldn't bring Randy Rosarena back just because It's going to be so much trouble to get them to agree to a contract. Not many Boris guys have agreed to deals in Seattle, and they're going to be asking for as much as he can possibly get. 00:33:24 Speaker 2: I mean, I think we've said this. We've heard this plenty. We'll say it again. As far as we understand, the relationship between Scott Boris and the Mariners is not very good. And like TJ said, there's a reason not a lot of Boris guys sign in Seattle. The Mariners have a certain value on what they think guys are worth, Some people would just call that the Mariners being cheap. If you're one of those people, you're totally fair for doing so because I think there's real merit to it. And Scott Boris likes to get his players often overpaid and on what a lot of teams would consider bad contracts. It doesn't matter for Scott Boris. He wants his guys to get paid as much money as humanly possible. I mean, every agent does, but everybody knows Scott Boris does it in a bit of a different way. So because of that, Whether you want Randy back or not, I think the odds of him coming back are very low considering his agent is Scott Boris. 00:34:12 Speaker 1: I'm going to read another one of my bullet points, my actual first bullet point that I've written down. The reason I wouldn't bring Randy Rosarena back is because the worst of Randy Rosarena highlights everything I want gone from the 2026 Mariners and gone from the Mariners franchise. 00:34:28 Speaker 2: That's a good one. I mean, I wrote a bullet point down in a more generic term, but I'll let you finish this. But that's a good line. 00:34:35 Speaker 1: It's creating drama with teammates, which is uniquely a Randy thing. Randy is the one who went to the press after Cal didn't shake his hand and cussed him out four different ways. Unfocused play on the field and on the base paths. I want that gone as far as humanly possible from the Mariners. At times, Randy has selfish at-bats. This team is not going to score more runs if the players at the plate are focused on their own stats as opposed to focusing on scoring the most runs for the team. And then the fourth one is kind of similar to that, is Randy being about Randy a lot of the time. And while that looks good on the stat sheet, it does not work as well with your teammates, which ultimately, as we saw this season, if your clubhouse culture is not good, then it's not going to lead to as many wins as you would like. More often than not. 00:35:24 Speaker 2: Correct. I basically wrote it more generically, but you said it perfectly. What I wrote is if you want to fix the culture next year, he doesn't really feel like he'd help that. 00:35:36 Speaker 1: No. He would be in addition to that, and the culture would be the culture despite him. 00:35:41 Speaker 2: Correct. 00:35:42 Speaker 1: We've seen enough from Randy now that he's past 30 years old to know that he's not a culture setter. He's not a guy that's going to lead a clubhouse. He is not going to unite everybody behind him. That's just not the kind of player, not the kind of personality he is. No one's forcing him to be that. Everyone grows into their own way. But since that's how it is for Randy, you can't rely on him to add any sort of that leadership element that you would hope from other guys. 00:36:10 Speaker 2: I will say there is a reason multiple organizations have gotten rid of him at points. including the Rays when he was in the prime of his career, especially offensively, with two and a half years of control. Next bullet point, and I think this is a pretty important one that I wrote down for Randy, which is how much extra motivation does Randy have this season because he's in his walk year? In other words, after he signs his contract, does he start to get complacent? I mean, it's nice for the Mariners' sake that he's had the best offensive year of his career. It hasn't really mattered because the rest of the team's been so bad. But it is very interesting to me that in Randy's walk year, for a guy that seems to have always been pretty set on wanting to hit free agency and very set toward that free agency date, that all of a sudden he's having his best season in 2026. Offensively, you know, he steals bases at certain times that certainly pad his stats. But once he signs that deal, and if he has $ 80 to $ 100 million next to his name. 00:37:11 Speaker 2: What does the work ethic look like? What do the results look like? Does he start to get complacent after he signs the deal? Look, I don't know what's going on with Josh Naylor, but he had an incredible walk year, signed his contract, and now all of a sudden is not playing well at all. And when Randy has, I would say, more questions about focus, at least than Naylor has in the past, what does he look like when he signs his contract? 00:37:36 Speaker 1: It's a great question. That kind of blends two of my points together about paying him from his age 32 to 35 season, which in recent Mariners memory really has only worked out with two players, and it both happened 10 years ago with Robinson Cano and Nelson Cruz. Otherwise, when Mariners have been paying offensive players to those ages, it has not worked out at all. You've seen guys completely fall off the table when you've committed dollars to them at those ages. And then my last bullet point on here is not having confidence that the contract will age well and that Randy's profile will not live up to the salary you're paying him when your ownership limits how much money you spend. So you just can't, like the Mets, absorb these massive, bad, bloated contracts and still sign talent around him because you have that much cash. The Mariners don't operate that way. So if you're paying Randy a rosary and a $ 23 million a year and he's awful, well, then that's $ 23 million the Mariners just flat out aren't going to spend to better themselves elsewhere on the roster. 00:38:36 Speaker 2: That's on my list, which was my final couple bullet points were if you pay Randy $ 20 million a year, how much money will the team have left to spend on other players this winter? Because, well, they should have a whole lot more, and if they get cheap and they essentially look at Randy's loss and say, well, we're just going to sit on that cash, I'm going to be pissed, and you better believe we're going to be talking about it if they don't go allocate that money elsewhere. But if you sign Randy... and you pay him $ 20 million a year, how much wiggle room does that leave you the rest of the offseason? How much else can you still add? Because this team still needs more offense. They need more bullpen help. They need better athletes. I mean, there's so much to fix that that is a lot to be paying Randy. I also said the fact he's already a bad defender and it could get worse as time goes on. You could be paying $ 20 to $ 23 million a year for a DH. 00:39:25 Speaker 1: I lied. I have one more bullet point. My last, last bullet point. is that from everything we've heard, it's mutual. It seems to be mutual between the two sides of Randy Rosarena, not continuing as a Mariner into 2027. So why force a relationship that's already not wanted for potentially three to four more years? 00:39:46 Speaker 2: I mean, Passa was just on Brock and Salt this week, and they asked him, do you think Randy's back next year? Definitively, Passa goes, no. No. No. And I don't think so either. By the way, it's funny we mentioned complacency, and you manage the Mets. Because as we sit here talking about Randy, if you want final predictions, I absolutely think he could end up signing with the Mets. He's going to play unfocused defense. He could get off to a bad start. Maybe he gets complacent after the contract. And you are going to see Frank just losing his mind on Randy Rosarena two weeks into the season in Queens. 00:40:18 Speaker 1: We can predict Randy's teams from here. It's going to be, like you said, the Red Sox, the Mets, or the Marlins. 00:40:24 Speaker 2: Yeah, if the Marlins open up their checkbook and spend some cash. 00:40:27 Speaker 1: Which they might have to at the new CBA. 00:40:29 Speaker 2: Might have to, and if they want to splash to try to show people they're getting serious about winning, Randy might be the best bat on the market this offseason. I mean, him and Seah are probably the two best bats on the whole market. 00:40:40 Speaker 1: Randy's been a better hitter than him this year. 00:40:42 Speaker 2: If you want to just go by players, Randy might be the second best player on the entire market this winter, not named Tarek Skubal. So, I mean, there are going to be teams that are going to be after his services, but when you think about where Randy wants to go, and you also think about some of the Scott-Boris relationships, certainly has a relationship with the Mets. He's gotten a lot of his guys signed there, most notably Juan Soto. But Randy seems like he wants to be on the East Coast, and he certainly is a guy that I think would be pretty content being in Florida. I think he lives in Miami in the offseason. 00:41:16 Speaker 1: So.... 00:41:18 Speaker 2: Would it shock me if Randy was going to go sign with the Marlins? No, not really. And the Red Sox would make some sense, too, for a team that could use a right-handed bat. 00:41:24 Speaker 1: They love spending, and they always love adding a bad contract when they have the opportunity to. 00:41:29 Speaker 2: I would be shocked if he's not with one of those three teams. That's my guess. 00:41:33 Speaker 1: Official prediction of the Marine Layer podcast, though, that we will have plenty of time to get into in the offseason, which is fast approaching, 12 days away for us from now, is... that Randy Rosarena will not be a Mariner in 2027. And as, as hard as this is, like given all the points we laid out on why I would bring Randy Rosarena back, I would not bring Randy Rosarena back to 2027 because I just think there's so much that needs to be fixed and bringing Randy back would not set a good precedent of we're serious about addressing that. The Mariners used to talk a whole lot about being athletic, about being sound and, about, you know, process, et cetera, et cetera, and this team is the antithesis of athletic, sound process, et cetera. So I want them to get back to their word. 00:42:21 Speaker 2: They used to talk about clubhouse culture all the time, too. 00:42:24 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:42:25 Speaker 2: Randy has certainly had his problems in that clubhouse, most notably with Cal Raleigh. If you want my official prediction, yeah. One, I would not bring Randy back. Two, I don't think he is back. And if you want a prediction, as we're sitting here on the 15th of September, I'm going to say he is a New York Met. on a four-year deal for somewhere between $ 75 to $ 80 million. 00:42:48 Speaker 1: Congratulations, Frank. 00:42:50 Speaker 2: Oh, Frank's going to love him. Oh, I mean, believe me, we will be watching those rants from the comfort of our own homes as Frank, 3,000 miles away in, well, not Queens, but Belleville, New Jersey, is just unleashing on Randy every other day. when he's lollygagging after balls on defense and he's taking selfish at bats and God forbid he gets off to a bad start or doesn't even live up to the contract, he will be pissed. 00:43:18 Speaker 1: And I think there's a more likely chance than not that he does not. It is hard to live up to your contract in free agency. Because often you get paid more than your value you'll produce in that age range. He's going to get paid for his production of his 20s, not his 30s. 00:43:33 Speaker 2: Well, that's just free agency in general. Guys get paid for who they were, not who the team thinks they're going to be. I mean, how many free agent contracts in the last decade or so have actually been home runs? Max Scherzer with the Nationals? 00:43:45 Speaker 1: Max Scherzer. Bryce Harper's contracts worked out so far, but he's also got a ton more years left on it. 00:43:52 Speaker 2: He does. I'd call that one a win. Even if Harper were to start to tail off toward the end of his career, that contract's been a win so far. So far, Judge's contract has absolutely been a win. There's not that many, man. 00:44:03 Speaker 1: The pitcher ones especially are tough, which is another question the Mariners are facing with their own arms coming up to free agency. 00:44:10 Speaker 2: It is a short list of long free agent contracts that work out. As we're sitting here right now, I would say, yeah, Scherzer, Judge, Harper, if you guys have more, you can. 00:44:18 Speaker 1: I mean, Shohei. 00:44:20 Speaker 2: Oh, well, yeah. That one. 00:44:22 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:44:22 Speaker 2: But, yeah, it's probably good we caught that one before we ended the podcast. But if you guys have others, you can drop them in the comments for who other good free agent contracts have been that have worked out. But, yeah, it's not the biggest list in the world for big money, long contracts. Anyway, that's our take on Randy. The Mariners now sit, what, 12 games under. 500 as this podcast comes out? 00:44:44 Speaker 1: World Series expectations, Lyle. 00:44:46 Speaker 2: 10 games left in the season. 00:44:50 Speaker 1: If I need a good laugh, I'm going to go back and listen to our spring training podcasts. 00:44:53 Speaker 2: Oh, my God. I haven't gone back and listened to those, but can you imagine how over the moon we were back then? We should go listen to our episode before the season started where we did our predictions where I'm sure we said they were going to win like 95-plus games and Cal had a chance to win the MVP and maybe Julio would go 30-30. Oh, my God. 00:45:11 Speaker 1: Nope. 00:45:15 Speaker 2: Maybe we should start cutting some clips for social media as the year starts to come to a close. Of all our just terrible takes at the start of the year, we'll just put the Curb Your Enthusiasm music under it. 00:45:26 Speaker 1: That would be fun. 00:45:27 Speaker 2: We should. 00:45:27 Speaker 1: Yeah, we should go do that. 00:45:28 Speaker 2: All right. Well, there's a homework assignment for us. With that, that'll just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Layer Podcast. You guys know the drill. If you want to listen to the full-form podcast, you can do so wherever you get your audio pods. Make sure to download these episodes if you're listening. Go rate and review. Please leave it five stars. It helps a ton. You can also go hit subscribe on YouTube. We encourage you to do so. It really helps the channel. All of our stuff's on our website, MarineLayerPod.com. Podcast merch is there. Episodes are all there. Patreon's all there. That's marinelayerpod.com. And then find us all across social media. We're posting content every day across all platforms at marinelayerpod. That's TJ. I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon.