Episode 465: The Mariners Are Out On Torey Lovullo + Mailbag

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number 465 of the Marine Layer podcast. It's a mailbag episode, so open it up and answer your best listener questions. We'll also react to Tori Lavello being off the Mariners managerial list as he heads back to Arizona. 00:00:14 Speaker 2: Reminder to you guys, just do us a couple favors before we start this podcast. Make sure you're downloading these episodes if you're listening. Please leave that written review and leave a five-star review while you're at it. It helps the podcast a ton. Hit subscribe if you're watching on YouTube. And then you can head over to our website, which is marinelayerpod.com. You can find all of our podcast merch there. Our episodes are there. Our Patreon's all there. There's a bunch of things. So just go check out the website. And then find us on social media. We're posting content everywhere, basically all the time, at marinelayerpod. 00:00:44 Speaker 1: Let's get it rolling. And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network, recording here on Thursday afternoon, October 1st, while the Mariners' managerial list has gotten, I would say, significantly shorter with Torrey Lovello now off the board. 00:01:16 Speaker 2: Not just significantly shorter, but wide open, too. Because for those who haven't heard yet, you probably have by this point in time, but in case you haven't, Tori Lovello is heading back to Arizona. It sounds like he got a new two-year deal with the Diamondbacks, so he's going to remain the manager down in the valley, in the desert. And the Mariners seem to have it leak out there that Tori Lovello would be just about their top choice if he became available. But he's not going to be available. So now this thing really gets interesting. 00:01:46 Speaker 1: And they never even got to talk to him. They would have had to wait on Tori Lovello until November to even talk. officially discuss contract terms with him because his current Diamondbacks contract did not expire until October 31st, which would have left the Mariners in a spot where they could talk to as many candidates as they wanted to in October. But Lyle, they probably would have waited until November to make that hire. But now they won't really have to deal with something like that if they set their eyes on someone who's not currently a major league manager. And at this point, the only is still the only guy who currently sits in a manager's chair that they would want is Steven Vogt. Well, that's it. And we've explained the problem with Steven Vogt. You don't negotiate with him. He'd be negotiating with Cleveland to trade for him. So different scenario. 00:02:37 Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, we talked about this fully on Wednesday's episode, which if you haven't checked that episode out yet, go for it because we really highlight a bunch of the pros and cons of all these different rumored Mariners managers that are out there so far. And Vogt would be great. I think he's probably going to be people's most popular pick. It's just going to be hard to acquire him because you'd have to trade for him. But that's why this whole thing is interesting is now Lovello's out and Vogt's going to be a tough one to get. Who's that elite? I mean, our guy Kai's out there. 00:03:09 Speaker 1: That probably only leaves one candidate that you and I would actually be like outwardly excited if they hired Vogt. there's probably others after you listen to them talk and you see how they're going to do with the current roster, the Mariners have around them and be like, okay, like maybe this will work better. Their process will work here better than it would in their previous stop. An example of that is like, uh, Chris Woodward's name's been thrown out there. Rocco Baldelli, as we talked about in, uh, in Minnesota and, you know, a couple other names. I feel like the only one we would be outwardly like, oh yeah, let's go. If they hired him would be Kai Correa, but we've also mentioned there are positives and negatives to hiring someone with no experience in that case, as the Mariners just saw, because you just, you don't know you're taking a much bigger risk on, uh, on someone. And ultimately you have to convince them to come here and, and take that job. So yeah, we'll see. I thought it would be a much, a much easier off season if it was just get Tori Lovello, Diamondbacks don't offer him a deal. Um, but never even got that chance. Right. 00:04:13 Speaker 2: I think we would be pretty excited if they got Steven Vogt, too, even if they traded for him. We'd probably be excited. 00:04:18 Speaker 1: That one I just don't think is likely at all. 00:04:21 Speaker 2: Probably not. Or I guess, again, if the Mariners paid the Guardians enough to buy Vogt out of his contract, that's another option, like another way people could get excited. But I have a hard time believing they're going to do that. So, yeah, the process does get interesting. I'll throw one more name out there, by the way, because we highlighted six names on Wednesday's podcast. We briefly mentioned that Passon threw out the names Brandon Hyde. He threw out Joe Espada now that he likely won't be back in Houston. Any chance the Mariners will look at David Ross? Because David Ross currently is just doing media stuff. And as far as I... could tell, he didn't do a bad job by any means in Chicago. He took over as the manager for a team that was just building its way up. That core hadn't fully come into place yet. And by the time they were really ready to start competing and get good, Craig Council became available. And David Ross, to be honest, got a pretty short end of the stick because Council got the job and he was let go. So I feel like that could be an option. 00:05:18 Speaker 1: He's in the same bucket as all these other guys, though, where it just feels incomplete. 00:05:22 Speaker 2: Where. 00:05:23 Speaker 1: you can say since he was rebuilding with the Cubs, the win-loss record is not what you want. And then they had an option to get a better manager in there, and they took their chance. But we really just don't know how good of a manager David Ross is. But what you could say is he's available. What you could also say is since he hasn't been in the dugout in what would have been three full seasons now, that would also be a risk. Things change in three years. He might be, in all of his media work, he might be able to keep up on a lot of that. But I would say at this point, dugout experience, whether you're in charge or not, is very valuable. Because the Mariners just hired someone last time with no prior dugout experience and obviously didn't go well. 00:06:10 Speaker 2: So yeah, this manager thing stays interesting. And again, it's just so funny to sit here and try and talk about managers because there's no empirical data we can use like we usually do when talking about players. I know I mentioned this Wednesday. It's just so odd. It's like, yeah, I mean, he managed here and they weren't that good, but don't look at his record. It's hard to really evaluate managers as a fan. That's why teams do it, not fans. 00:06:35 Speaker 1: Use Chris Woodward as an example because his name's been getting thrown out there a little bit. I didn't think he was a very good manager with the Rangers, but you also look at the situation he was in, he had, he took over like some pretty talent, desolate Rangers teams, and then they were bad, like pretty reflective of his talent. And then he got fired. So the Rangers could hire Bruce Bochy and like the season that everything came together. 00:06:58 Speaker 2: Right. 00:06:59 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's just kind of, it's kind of hard to evaluate without looking at the context of how much talent he actually had to work with. 00:07:09 Speaker 2: Fair, totally fair. I mean, he did have Marcus Semyon and Corey Seager in that first year, but they didn't win much. Now, you could argue that team still wasn't ready because it was the next year where not only were those two guys really good, but that was when you started getting a lot out of the other guys around you. Josh Young had a great year. Duran and Lioti Taveras, of all people, had great years. You got Ketcher. Jonah Heim had a great year. So that was when it all came together for all those guys. And they ended up winning. So, yeah. Right. 00:07:44 Speaker 1: But I would need to sit down and listen to Chris Woodward talk about how he manages players and his communication style and all these things that I'd say more so foster a culture as opposed to button pushing on the field, which are both important. To us, and we can only see one of those on the field. 00:08:05 Speaker 2: Right. 00:08:06 Speaker 1: You're right. It's hard because we're just kind of saying stuff. And the sentence I said earlier where it's like, yeah, there's only one guy we're going to be outwardly excited for, and that's because we got to talk to him for a long time this year, and we think he's super sharp and would be good at the job. But even still, it's hard, which is why they're going to do an extensive search and hopefully hire the best candidate. Yeah. 00:08:27 Speaker 2: Again, I'll say two because we'd be excited about Boat also. It's just that it's going to be unlikely. I'll even throw the caveat out there about Kai too, Kai Correa, who, again, TJ and I will keep banging the drum for because I think he'd be awesome. But the Mets pay their coaches pretty well, as far as I know. The Mariners obviously have a reputation to not pay their coaches well. The Mets do pay their coaches well. So if Kai Correa essentially has the second highest position in on the Mets coaching staff as the bench coach, I would assume that he's probably making some decent money. And if that money comes close to what the Mariners try to pay their managers, he might not be that motivated to leave Queens. He might wait till some other managerial job comes open and maybe somebody offers him more. I'm not saying that's for sure. I would just consider that. The Mets are a team, obviously, as you can tell by their player payroll, they don't shy away from funds. And with their coaches... As far as I know, I think they pay him pretty solidly. So if those salaries are close, it could be another reason maybe he doesn't wind up here, which would again be an indictment on the Mariners for not doing everything it takes to win baseball games. But it could be the reality. 00:09:42 Speaker 1: Well, this is where the Mariners use their roster talent as a negotiating tool. It's like, okay, you could go to X team that will pay you more, but you're going to have significantly worse players to work with. And... your roster might still be a few years away from contending. And then, oh, your three years is up and you, haven't had a winning season in any of those three seasons, even though it doesn't really have anything to do with your decision-making or your ability to build a culture, but you haven't won enough. So we're going to fire you. And then all of a sudden you have that stain on your resume, as opposed to the Mariners were like, all right, we won't pay you as much, but look how much talent you have an MVP runner up. You have a $ 300 million center fielder. You have top young talent across the board, top pitching prospects, a rotation that has been among the league's best for four years in a row. It's intriguing. 00:10:30 Speaker 2: Four-year sample, not this year. Four-year sample. 00:10:33 Speaker 1: Yeah, a four-year cumulative, not individual. 00:10:38 Speaker 2: So fair argument, and maybe that will come into play, but managers could have a similar outlook on this as players. Did Robinson Cano care about winning when he signed his Mariners contract? Evidently not. He signed with the Mariners, coming off a horrendous season in 2013. There are managers that might care about the money more than the situation. And if somebody doesn't think they're getting enough of a pay bump, they might not want to leave. 00:11:03 Speaker 1: It's possible, but there's also only 30 managers jobs. Meanwhile, there's what's 26 times 30. I mean, that's how many big league roster spots there are. 00:11:12 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:11:12 Speaker 1: I think there's a bit of a difference with that. 00:11:14 Speaker 2: A little bit, but... just in the example of Kai Correa, he's pretty young. And if he's going to be an attractive name out there for a while, he could be in every rumored search for years to come until he finds a job he wants. 00:11:28 Speaker 1: What if though, like, uh, pick a, pick a bad team that hasn't fired their manager yet. That still could. 00:11:36 Speaker 2: Um, I don't know the A's. 00:11:38 Speaker 1: Yeah. Let's say the A's. Um, what if, Like, would Kai feel better, or any first-year manager, feel better taking the Mariners' job for, say, a million dollars? Because that's what it was reported they paid Dan Wilson. Would their current talent for a million dollars, or would you go to the A's for $ 2 million with that roster? And the A's have a talented roster. I just don't know if it's quite currently good enough to win games. 00:12:11 Speaker 2: Again, all totally fair points, but I will go back to what I said about players. Sometimes it's just about the money. That's how free agency goes. It is about the money. 00:12:21 Speaker 1: Sure. 00:12:23 Speaker 2: You just don't get to hear negotiations as much with managers and their contracts because they're not public the way players are. So I'm sure there's managers out there that are interested in the highest dollar figure. Craig Council clearly was. Brewers are a really good team. He left to go to one of their rivals. Got way more money. Yeah. 00:12:42 Speaker 1: It's a fair point. So that's something we're going to have to see as we go along in this Mariners managerial search. But their seemingly top target is now off the board. And as you and I talked about, it's going to be open season now. Like the clear favorite is off the board. So it really could be. I wouldn't pin a favorite from here on out. I wouldn't feel confident in that. 00:13:03 Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed. 00:13:05 Speaker 1: Before we get to our mailbag, I want to tell you guys about Emerald Queen Casino's upcoming entertainment lineup. Sons of Legion visits EQC on October 4th, Gary Allen on October 9th, WFC 199 on October 17th, and Bear Grease on October 23rd. Get your tickets today at EmeraldQueen.com. Emerald Queen Casino is the entertainment capital of the Northwest. And while you're there, you can check out the BetMGM Sportsbook. 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That's dlgseattle.com slash baseball. 00:15:17 Speaker 1: And a reminder to you all, as we get into this mailbag episode, the place to go if you want to submit questions for these mailbags is our Patreon. That's patreon.com slash marinelayerpod, where you get access to ad-free episodes, mailbag priority, and a monthly video call with Lyle and I to answer all your Mariners' questions. So if that sounds like something that's interesting to you, go to our Patreon at patreon.com slash marinelayerpod. Let's start off with Ethan on Patreon. Ethan asks, what were your guys' top five Mariners games this year? 00:15:51 Speaker 2: So Ethan, I just want to say, I did write games down. However, were there games you truly enjoyed this year? Because I got to tell you what, digging through these, it ain't like last year, man. I don't even mean last year in the playoffs. I even mean last year in the regular season versus this year in the regular season. There are not a lot of games on this year's slate They really jump out because, well, the season wasn't fun. 00:16:16 Speaker 1: There weren't many games that had a positive significance behind it. Where it's like, if you win, your level of optimism about this team shot up. 00:16:27 Speaker 2: I pulled up the Mariner schedule. I'm looking. 00:16:29 Speaker 1: I'm like, I see these wins, which are like fine wins. And then they're followed by five game losing streaks. So I'm like, I just couldn't find a way to get excited about it. But Ethan managed to find five. And so did we. 00:16:44 Speaker 2: So Cade's first start with the Randy walk off, you can put on there. Cause I think when that happened, people said to themselves, Oh, like maybe this is the start of the turnaround. And then they got a 20 spot put on them the next day. So the one singular game, you know, that was fun. Randy walking off the Cubs was fun, but. Yeah, it didn't have that much significance. 00:17:06 Speaker 1: And then a week later, Max Scherzer struck them out 10 times. 00:17:10 Speaker 2: Yeah, dominated them. Cal had a walk-off hit in the first week. It was before Cal's season had really gone down the drain because, again, it was only a few games into the year. So that one was exciting when you think to yourself, Cal got off to a slow start in those first few games, but once he got the walk-off hit, you think to yourself, oh, great. Like, this will be the start of Cal doing Cal things. The Mariners will start to win. Everything will be good. That was not the case, but I put it on the list because at the time, you were excited. Other ones I had, funny enough, you want to try to find games of significance. Rob Refsnyder homers in St. Louis, and that was part of the team's eight-game win streak. Remember, he overturned a pitch with a good ABS challenge, and then he homered in St. Louis, and it led the Mariners to winning the game. I remember we were sitting at Moss Bay Hall with all our friends over at the hall. We were taping our podcast there that day. And similar thing. I think we said to ourselves, Mariners are starting to win. Ref Snyder just had his first good game. Maybe he just started slow. And finally, he's going to start to get going. And they'll start to hit lefties again. Yeah, none of that happened. But at the time, we were like, well, maybe. That was a fun win. And then the final one I have on my list, of course, is the last game of the season. because it meant we didn't have to watch the team anymore. 00:18:32 Speaker 1: Me and you have the same number one game. The last one. 00:18:36 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:18:37 Speaker 1: Yes. 00:18:38 Speaker 2: Okay. 00:18:39 Speaker 1: My top five from five to one. Naylor's two home run game against the Astros, where there's some optimism in me when I think they swept the Astros that day. Josh Naylor had been off to just an atrocious start. I'm like, oh, he had two home runs. 00:18:54 Speaker 2: All right, he's back. 00:18:55 Speaker 1: 2025, Josh Naylor is back. Mariners offense is back. Going to be just fine this year. Nope, I was wrong. June 2nd, a win against the Mets, which was their eighth win in a row, where, again, foolishly think, all right, I mean, it was a slow first two months, but here they are. They're back. Nope, wrong. Randy's walk-off against the Cubs, as Lyle said. Thought it could be something? 00:19:20 Speaker 2: Nope. 00:19:22 Speaker 1: Number two, Colt Emerson's first big league home run over Jared Kelnick's head. That was a fun one. That was like, oh, that's cool. That was really cool. 00:19:30 Speaker 2: I'll add that one. And again, the theme of all these games is you thought it was going to start to mean something more. That was Colt's second game. He hit the home run. The symbolism of it was just amazing because, yeah, it was over Kalnick's head. And you thought to yourself, great, this is the start of Colt Emerson. He might play like Kevin McGonigal this year. He might have a chance to go to the All-Star game if he has a really hot two months. I mean, those first couple weeks he played were great. And then he was hiding a wrist injury that somehow not a single person in the organization knew or talked to him about. Player, teammate, front office, anybody. Coaching staff, training staff, nobody. No. 00:20:08 Speaker 1: Just... Just that was the standard, Lyle. They were up to the coaching staff standards. That's all. 00:20:14 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. 00:20:15 Speaker 1: And then, of course, number one, the last game of the season. So we didn't have to watch another second of this team because they were just not very fun to watch. Not enjoyable. So thank you for the question, Ethan. That was a fun one. 00:20:25 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was good. Not a lot of good games, but a good question. It's a good thought exercise. I'll say that. 00:20:32 Speaker 1: Next question comes from Michael on Patreon. Michael's question is, do you have a rooting interest in the postseason? 00:20:40 Speaker 2: I do, but I think we might lose some followers if I say it. 00:20:46 Speaker 1: Go ahead and say it. 00:20:47 Speaker 2: I'm kind of a sicko. I know I'm a sicko. I actually don't hate watching the Dodgers win. I don't. 00:20:56 Speaker 1: Even with the context of what's going to happen after the season? 00:20:59 Speaker 2: I just don't think it matters. Do you not? Again, how many times have there been a repeat champion in the last 25 years? People aren't mad at the Mets. The Mets spend... a ton of money. They're not winning. They're mad because the Dodgers are winning. 00:21:14 Speaker 1: Well, number one, I think parody is good. Three World Series titles in a row doesn't really suggest that much parody. But also, given that the owners are going to fight like heck for a salary cap this offseason, I don't think it's in baseball fans' best interest that the Dodgers win this World Series. It can be anyone else. It could be a team like the Atlanta Braves who also have a really high payroll. but it's just not the Dodgers because the optics of that going into the lockout are not going to be great. So while I'm like you, I don't really have a problem with the Dodgers winning because of what's happening after the season. I think someone besides the Dodgers should win for the most optimism of next season. 00:21:59 Speaker 2: Okay. So my argument on this, the points you just made are good. My usual argument, reason and logic behind this is I actually think super teams and dynasties and sports are good because it rallies the entire community and sport around that team to root against them. Like when there's dynasties and sports, whether it's the chiefs, whether it's the warriors, whoever people start to root against these teams. And it honestly becomes even more must see TV. Like interest goes up when there's super teams and people want to see dynasties fall. So I actually think that's, that's a, good thing when there's not a lockout that's about to take place and i think it's just well and i'll say this too the dodgers aren't going to be able to keep doing this forever their core is actually starting to get old and katie woo of the athletic of the athletic just wrote a piece about this today that they might not have many more chances at this so again i actually don't hate seeing dynasties in sports i think a lot of in a lot of ways it's actually good But if you're somebody that's going to argue it's going to cause a huge problem with the lockout, I can understand. If you want a different team besides the Dodgers, I'll give you one. Padres are fun, man. I like that. I mean, we have a good friend who's a Padres fan, so maybe that helps too. But Padres are a fun team. And that bullpen, watching that bullpen in October is unfair. 00:23:24 Speaker 1: I think watching the Brewers win would be cool too. I think Pat Murphy's a great manager. I think they have a likable team, and I think they're very good at a lot of things. I think they're fun to watch, and getting to watch Miz in the World Series would be super cool. We didn't really get to see the Brewers much last postseason at all because they were usually playing on the same days the Mariners were and just getting their doors blown off by the Dodgers, and we barely got to see them. Right. 00:23:53 Speaker 2: Anyway, the Padres would be fun. 00:23:55 Speaker 1: Yes, I agree. 00:23:56 Speaker 2: Again, watching just the arm after arm after arm that they put out in that bullpen from Jason Adam to Yuki Matsui, who had a phenomenal year, to Bradley Rodriguez, who had a great year, and then you obviously get to the two big dogs in Morajon and Mason Miller. It's ridiculous. I texted our friend who's a Padres fan during game two of Cubs-Padres the other night once they had the three-run lead, and I said, there's a chance they could just have more a hone and Miller combined for four innings, right? Because those guys were both on three days rest. And then now they get an extra two days off because of the win. And I was like, Oh, these guys could each get six outs. That's how good this bullpen is. They didn't end up doing that. They could have. That's now that Padres bullpen is crazy. 00:24:42 Speaker 1: Just crushing it in that lineup. 00:24:44 Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, though, I actually think, I think dynasties and sports actually create something that I know a lot of fans wouldn't agree and that's fine. In a lot of ways, that's good because the hate watch that ensues from having dynasties in sports gets people more invested. And now there's a hate watch going on with the Dodgers. 00:25:03 Speaker 1: I think that's all true if there wasn't risk of actually missing baseball games because of it. 00:25:08 Speaker 2: Sure. That's fair. Again, it's just people are mad because they're winning, not because they're spending. Again, nobody's mad at the Mets, but yes. 00:25:17 Speaker 1: And not all spending is good spending. I just want to look at Kyle Tucker. who the Dodgers are paying approximately $ 120 million to be a bottom-tier player this year. 00:25:30 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not great. It's not great. They should trade him to the Mariners. You know what would be an interesting narrative, last note on this, if the Padres won it all? Because I think a lot of the gripes that smaller market teams have is not just that it's the Dodgers that seem to always win, but it's always big market teams that always win because it equates to larger payrolls due to being in a bigger market. The Padres winning... would actually make the owners look pretty bad because that would be a team saying, hey, our market size is about 30th and we just spent a bunch of money and won. 00:26:03 Speaker 1: Where are the rest of you at? Milwaukee, Tampa, whoever else? I mean, there are some drawbacks to it. I mean, they did have to sell the team to, I think, essentially like a private equity group that will now cut that down. And there was talks about how in debt the Seidler family was running the Padres. But you're right. It's possible. You can do it. There's sacrifices you have to make, but you can do it. It just depends. What it ultimately comes down to is how much you want to win. Peter Seidler really, really, really, really, really wanted to win. And that's what he did. 00:26:38 Speaker 2: I mean, Steve Cohen really wants to win. I can't imagine he's netting that much money from the Mets with how much he's spending, but he just wants to win. 00:26:48 Speaker 1: So it's always possible. Again, it's just how much you care. And fans just want the owners to care as much as they do at the end of the day. Tim, Tin Cup Mariner asks, Alec Boehm hit an extra inning home run today, as he writes this yesterday, to keep the Phillies alive. Do either of you have any interest in him playing third base for the Mariners next year? No. 00:27:09 Speaker 2: So I know he had a nice postseason moment, but Alec Boehm has really been a tough player. over the last couple of seasons. Alec Boehm this year, by baseball reference, has been a negative war player. His WRC plus is 90, and he just doesn't really do anything well. He doesn't defend well. He's not hitting the ball great. He's not hitting for crazy power. I don't see how that one makes much sense, other than the fact that he's a right-handed hitter. 00:27:38 Speaker 1: The Mariners said they want to get more athletic. They need to play better defense. They need, I guess, more consistency defensively. They need better culture. I don't know if Alec Boehm covers any of those. From what we've heard, from what's been reported publicly, from just seeing that he ranks in the bottom of baseball in both base running and fielding and sprint speed, I don't see it. For $ 15 million, no. 00:28:05 Speaker 2: Well, and he won't get that in this upcoming free agency sweepstakes. 00:28:10 Speaker 1: He can get like $ 10 million a year, probably. That's what he's making right now. 00:28:13 Speaker 2: I think somebody will give him a one-year prove-it deal as he tries to re-hit the market. I think he's going to get somewhere between $ 5 million to $ 8 million this upcoming year. Again, given the year he's having, is somebody really going to pay him $ 12 million? Depends on the team. Also, if there's one more caveat to this, Scott Boris is his agent. The Mariners don't usually like to deal with Scott Boris. 00:28:41 Speaker 1: This is also a Mariners team that self-imposes a limited budget. Do you want to spend your budget on Alec Boehm? I don't really want to spend a limited budget on Alec Boehm. If you had unlimited funds, maybe he could be a bench player for you, but otherwise, no. There's just not a lot he brings to the field that I'm clamoring for. 00:29:02 Speaker 2: There is not that much he does well. Not offensively, not defensively, not athletically, not base running-wise. And again, there's been some questions about how he is in the clubhouse over the last couple of years too. 00:29:17 Speaker 1: Thomas on Patreon asks when the Mariners make the world series, who are you going to game one with? 00:29:24 Speaker 2: So this obviously means eventually. And I like the question when the Mariners eventually get there, who will you go with? I assume the two of us would probably go. 00:29:32 Speaker 1: And then if you want to, yeah. 00:29:34 Speaker 2: And if you add on people to that, some of our friends, some of our family, if my brother was around, I'm sure he would go. Yeah. 00:29:46 Speaker 1: I mean, I'd probably go with my brother and my parents besides you. Yeah. 00:29:50 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:29:50 Speaker 1: We'll see what the budget's looking like at that point. I mean, I would imagine tickets are going to be two to $ 3, 000 a pop. So it depends. Depends what people are feeling up for. I remember when we were checking the ticket prices for the World Series before Game 7 of the ALCS. I wonder what happened in that game. 00:30:11 Speaker 2: Wait, they didn't win that game? No, no. Oh, I thought they did. 00:30:15 Speaker 1: No? Nope. Why? 00:30:17 Speaker 2: What happened? 00:30:20 Speaker 1: Edward Bazzardo pitched in the seventh inning. 00:30:22 Speaker 2: Oh, right. Yeah, it wasn't Munoz. All right, keep going. 00:30:25 Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember checking the World Series ticket prices for like all the teams and the Mariners ticket price for like five times as much as everyone else's. 00:30:34 Speaker 2: Right. 00:30:35 Speaker 1: Like the World Series tickets for the Dodgers. I think they were expensive, but it was like $ 500 versus $ 2, 000 get in. 00:30:42 Speaker 2: Yeah. A franchise that bathes in World Series titles with a franchise that doesn't even know what sniffing one looks like. Nope. 00:30:52 Speaker 1: No, no clue whatsoever. All right, before we get to this next mailbag question, Lyle, do you want to read an ad? 00:30:59 Speaker 2: Yeah. How about our friends over at Pagach's Pub 85? You guys know it's this awesome neighborhood bar. It's over in Kirkland. 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Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash marine layer. Next question comes from Alex on Patreon. Alex's question is, what is the best part about doing the podcast slash bullpen banner content? And then what is the hardest part of doing that? 00:33:02 Speaker 2: Oh, that's a fun question. I think the best part is... getting to live out a passion we have i mean what do we do on a daily basis we talk about baseball in a couple of different formats one's about our singular favorite team doing this podcast one's more national essentially getting to do baseball trivia which two of us and our friends would kind of go through together all the time before we even turned it into actual content but yeah the best part's getting to live out a passion that you truly love to do which is talk about baseball And also with the bullpen banner side of it, I would say getting to tell, not just, not really tell the stories of some of the athletes, but get to know the personalities of a bunch of the different athletes is actually really interesting. Everybody brings something a little bit different and I've actually really enjoyed that part of it. 00:33:50 Speaker 1: Best part I would say is the relationships with the fans and the players. For the players, it's just cool to get to talk to athletes all the time because they are all very unique and at the end of the day, humans. So getting to talk to them, even for a small bit of time, I think is super cool and very rewarding when they also appreciate some of the work you do, either if they've seen it or after they do it, they really enjoy it. I think that part's pretty fun. And then the relationships with all of you, I think is super cool because without this content, we never would have met most of you. And you guys are the entire reason we get to do this in the first place. So it's like the smallest thing we can do. is to build back a relationship with you guys when we meet you guys out in public. And I think that's super cool. 00:34:35 Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead. No, I should have started with that. Maybe that was a given and I didn't put it out there, but yes, the community of building out Mariners fans has been awesome. Like getting to meet so many. I know we've talked about this a bunch, but it really never fails to amaze us, which is just speaking volumes to the great community of Mariners fans that are out there and how many of you guys we've met. I mean, we've made legitimate friends of ours just from doing this podcast. I mean, there are now friends of ours who we spark conversations with because they wanted to talk Mariners and we wanted to talk Mariners with them because we were two fans that just ended up meeting up, whether it was at a game or somewhere else. And now we're legitimate friends of ours that we talk to on the regular. So like, that is about as cool a thing as you can draw up with having something like this built a community of Mariners fans built. So yes, as always, this is all thanks to you guys. 00:35:32 Speaker 1: What about the hardest thing? 00:35:35 Speaker 2: I would say, look, consistency is so key in content and we're pretty good. I'd like to say about being on things and staying consistent with posting and not missing episodes, but, making sure to carve out the time and put in the necessary effort to stay consistent as always. I don't know about difficult, but you have to make it part of the routine. I would say that. And then you. 00:35:59 Speaker 1: Got to establish a routine because otherwise you might, there might be a point when you start that you might just skip an episode and then that habit is sticks with you. So you got to make sure you don't have that habit. 00:36:11 Speaker 2: I heard a stat very early on when we started that said the average podcast doesn't make it past the third episode. And I think it's, less than 10% make it past seven, if I remember right. So yes, you absolutely have to start a consistent routine that you don't let go. I'd like to think you guys know this by now, but we don't really miss shows. Even in the off season, if there's holidays, if there's much of anything, we don't miss shows. If we're traveling, we take our equipment with us and record. It's not just, oh, one of us is going to be out of town, so we'll just skip one. No, we stay on it pretty well, we'd like to think. So I would say that part of it, just making sure you have a routine down. And then also just always trying to find new creative ideas to keep, one, implementing new things, but also just to keep things growing. Because when you're in content, there's not really a ceiling to how far you can grow. Now, certain brands only grow to a certain extent, but the goal is to just never stop growing and never stop building. So What we're trying to navigate through as we're about to conclude three years of this podcast and about a year and a half, two years, or I guess two years now, close to, of doing Bullpen Banner is, yeah, how do you keep it all going? How do you keep people engaged? And how do you keep creating new ideas to engage the people? And we're always trying to think about new ideas, but continuously doing that and not getting complacent with the ideas you already have, I think is, it's just always an interesting brain exercise is what I'd say. 00:37:45 Speaker 1: I think the hardest part is being patient while it grows because everyone grows at different speeds and yours could take a year longer than someone else's to reach the point you want. And I'll speak for our journey. Like it took us over, I think to officially be full time doing this, it took us over three years. That's a long time. And a lot of people don't have three years to, to commit the hours to do that. It's a lot to ask from people. So to sit there and be patient while it grows and take the necessary steps to make sure it grows as it does and make whatever sacrifices you need to make to make sure that happens, I fully think that's the hardest thing we had to do. There were opportunities for us before that three-year mark that we had to pass on that would have made it full time. And instead we had to be extra patient to make it the way we wanted to. And I think it ended up great. Best case scenario for us. 00:38:53 Speaker 2: So yeah, there were, there were options to speed up the process, but it wasn't with the vision that we wanted. We wanted to do it in our own way. And by staying patient, we were able to do that. So yeah, very good answer. I would say a combination of, yeah, Trying to always stay creative, trying to find ways to keep it all building, but also, to your point, being patient. Those are the toughest parts. But I'm sure there will be points as we go on where we have to continue being patient. There's definitely points that will occur as we go on that we have to keep being creative and think of new ideas. And I say that because we try just about every day to think of new ideas, but. yeah, it's all a process. 00:39:33 Speaker 1: Next question comes from Xander on Patreon. Xander's question is, if we can't get Arizona's manager, is there a package that can bring Lyle's high school arch nemesis, Corbin Carroll home? If I had to do it, this is the package I would offer. George Kirby, Johnny Farmello, Felman Celestin, and Luke Stevenson. 00:39:51 Speaker 2: Wow. I don't know if I call Corbin a nemesis. I mean, we did beat the guy after all. Again, who's laughing now as he's got a hundred million dollar contract and endorsements and all-star games. And I'm sitting here recording a podcast. No, I'm just kidding. Corbin's great. We've mentioned this on the pod, but he is, he is one of the nicest dudes we've gotten to talk to. So when you see stars like that in the game that are that down to earth is always cool. Anyway, To the question that was asked. You're at a starting point, Xander. I would probably add on Julio and Kate Anderson to that trade package because I don't know. 00:40:27 Speaker 1: Both of them? 00:40:28 Speaker 2: Well, how else are you going to get the Diamondbacks to say yes to giving up the star of their team? They're not going to do that. He's also on an incredibly team-friendly contract. 00:40:37 Speaker 1: I think it's a fair offer if you go Kirby, Colt Emerson, Farmelo, Selston, Stevenson. 00:40:45 Speaker 2: Oh, so you added Emerson. Okay. Yes. 00:40:48 Speaker 1: I don't know if trading Julio and his whole contract as much upside as there is, there is in there. Like, I don't know if that's what they'd be looking for. I would assume if the Diamondbacks were trading Corbin, they're rebuilding. So offering a 21 year old shortstop at who's mostly cost controlled would be a little bit friendlier. 00:41:07 Speaker 2: Yeah. I still think you might need more, especially because the Diamondbacks need pitching more than offense. Honestly, man, It might be Kirby, one of Cade or Sloan, Colt Emerson, and then Celestin or Farmelo. It might look something like that. It would be a lot. A lot, a lot. 00:41:25 Speaker 1: If people need a reminder on his contract, I believe he has like $ 84 million remaining over the next four years. And then he's got a club option after that for $ 28 million. The AAV remaining is a little bit over $ 20 million. It's not a lot. 00:41:41 Speaker 2: No. 00:41:41 Speaker 1: It's a pretty team-friendly deal. He signed this right as he got to the big leagues. So it's very, very team friendly. 00:41:48 Speaker 2: $ 20 million a year for one of the guys who's one of the best players in baseball. So yeah, it'd be fun. I'd be all for it. I don't see it. 00:41:59 Speaker 1: Cade on Patreon asks, who are some surprise players you could see us adding to the roster this off season? And also some you could see us getting rid of. 00:42:07 Speaker 2: All right, I'm going to do rid of first. I'm curious to hear your list. I don't think Randy's back. I think most people are in consensus on that. I don't think JP's back. I think a starter gets traded, and my guess is Kirby. And I also think if they get anything for Luke Raley, he probably also gets traded because, as we've talked about, him and Canzone together just is a little bit of a roster crunch. It doesn't flow all that well. So I think there's a decent chance that those guys could all be shipped out of town. I think Randy and JP are not back. But I'm curious to hear your list before I get to the surprise players to add. 00:42:47 Speaker 1: Getting rid of, I would say if it's something that's surprising that they get rid of, it would be multiple starters instead of just one. All the names you mentioned, yes, but I qualify getting rid of as guys who are under contract for next season. So like Randy walking, like, I mean, he's already not on the roster next year. So same with JP. So I would say two, if it was going to be a surprise of guys getting rid of, it would be multiple starters. But I could tell you probably one starter is getting traded. And then maybe another surprise, Lyle, is they trade a bullpen arm. They try and reshuffle around their bullpen arm. I don't know what you get back for a bullpen arm. But in terms of getting rid of, those bullpen arms are under contract for next season. And you and I both think they need a bullpen overhaul. So that's kind of how I think that would lead. 00:43:36 Speaker 2: I'll throw one more name out there. I don't think it happens. But it's interesting. And if you want a surprise, this would be a surprise. Any chance they'd float Canzone around in trade packages? Because honestly, he's probably one of your best chips at this point. For a team that's so left-handed heavy, if they feel like they really have to reset some things and get more athletic and find some more right-handed hitters, is there a chance somebody would be looking for a 25 home run hitting power hitting left-handed bat who's got some real club control left? Possible. I don't think they do it, but that would be in the bucket of surprise players that would make some logical sense, even if they don't end up doing it. 00:44:23 Speaker 1: Man, that would be an interesting one. I wonder what his market would be because you're now essentially trading what will be a DH who will be in his age 30 season next year. Club controlled, yes. Productive, yes. Platoon neutral, yes. But ultimately a 30-year-old DH. So what kind of value does that bring back? He's a good hitter. Not a great hitter. Very good hitter. So that would be interesting. I'd wonder what they get back. I don't think you're getting back like a stud younger infielder. I don't think that's the case or even outfielder like a right-handed hitting version of Dom can zone. That's four years younger. I don't think so. 00:45:05 Speaker 2: So, I mean, maybe it wouldn't be to that level, but you're talking about a guy that essentially had an all-star level season at the plate and still has three years of club control. I know he's not a great defender, but, if a team thinks they could still play them in the outfield a lot of days, like the Mariners did, you sell them more as an outfielder than a DH. And then I don't know, man, like, could you, again, could you get a cup, like a younger right-handed bat back? Could you get a couple of legit bullpen arms back? Could you get something for a guy that's really proven he can hit in the middle of an order? 00:45:38 Speaker 1: So you said they could get rid of him. Would you do it? I don't think I would, given that the Mariners are in a win now window, I'm essentially giving them a one-year window with, this front office and whoever's going to be the new manager to go out there and win our very least make the playoffs. I feel like Ken zone is someone who just has to be on the roster next year. 00:45:59 Speaker 2: I wouldn't do it. And I don't think they do it, but if you're looking at surprise names, he actually is probably one of their best trade chips. They probably will not do it though. Let's be clear. 00:46:08 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:46:09 Speaker 2: Okay. 00:46:10 Speaker 1: Uh, yeah. 00:46:10 Speaker 2: Who's your interesting player that they could add. 00:46:13 Speaker 1: Any free agent worth more than $ 10 million a year or under the age of 30. 00:46:19 Speaker 2: Great. Awesome. 00:46:22 Speaker 1: I would be surprised if that happened. 00:46:25 Speaker 2: Morohone? Sure. 00:46:27 Speaker 1: I think he's over the age of 30, though, but he would make more than 10. He's not. 00:46:31 Speaker 2: Morohone's like 28. Oh, really? 00:46:33 Speaker 1: I thought he was 30 at this point. Okay. So, yes, that. The Mariners say they need to find a better way to identify these players. But, yeah. Especially after Stanton said he hated paying players over the age of 30, which, yeah. 00:46:54 Speaker 2: So Adrian Morajone will not cost a 10-year contract like Stanton said he doesn't want to give out and made that very clear. Thank you, John Stanton. He also says he doesn't like paying players over the age of 30. Adrian Morajone, as we sit right now, is 27 years old and will hit free agency going into his age 28 season. And the Mariners also need bullpen arms. Seems great. I would pay Adrian Morahone $ 100 million. 28 years old? You need bullpen help? He's back there for the foreseeable future? He's the best lefty reliever in baseball? Dude, that would be sick. I mean, you could sign me up for that, and you've got to be kidding. Why is every player under Scott Boris, dude? He's under Boris Morahone. Every time. Yeah. 00:47:45 Speaker 1: He always finds a way to get you. 00:47:48 Speaker 2: Well, especially this franchise, because they don't do deals together. 00:47:52 Speaker 1: I couldn't think of a better time to reignite that relationship. 00:47:55 Speaker 2: That'd be awesome. 00:47:56 Speaker 1: Got to set the groundwork for paying Kate Anderson in six years. 00:48:00 Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see. Okay, I've got an interesting name. I'm glad you went with the big name brand free agent types. I've got a different type of name, and it is more of a utility player, but it's a utility player that the Mariners need to take a lot more seriously. This is not the Rob Refsnighters of the world. This is somebody versatile that could actually make your bench a good bench. Because as we all know, the Mariners' bench was a complete atrocity this year. It wasn't the biggest reason they had a bad year, but it certainly didn't help. You need a good bench. And this guy would actually give their bench some real versatility and some real production. I think Mauricio Dubon would be an awesome Mariner next year. He is versatile. He's good defensively at just about every single position he plays. He can play infield and outfield. He's a right-handed bat. He shouldn't cost you all that much. And he was about a two-win player this year. That should not be their headline move of the offseason. Let's be very clear. If the Mariners make a move no bigger than signing Mauricio Dubon, people are going to be furious and for every single good reason because that would be a joke. However... Mauricio Dubon could do a lot of good things for a bench, and I would like to see him on the team. 00:49:17 Speaker 1: Because he's not coming here to hit. fifth in your lineup. He has never in the big leagues been an above-average hitter. But yeah, playing as many positions as he can play, you need that. You need a better bench next year. What they were rolling out this year was an embarrassment. It cost them... at every opportunity possible. And that falls on Jerry and Justin for the roster they put together by just putting bad players on the bench. Mauricio Dubon is not a bad player. He's kind of what you want, Dylan Moore. He's like the prime Dylan Moore thought. That's what you need more of. 00:49:52 Speaker 2: Again, right-handed bat is legitimately good at just about every position he plays defensively. Was a two-win player this past year. And dude, if you gave Mauricio Dubon a two-year deal to be a bench player for you, I don't know how many places he'll be looking at a two-year deal. That would be awesome. So I would circle that one. I hope they bring him in because he's an athlete. He's got some speed. He plays defense. He brings some value. 00:50:23 Speaker 1: Next question comes from John Smith on Patreon. John's question is, is it time to maybe look at getting some veteran players that have been to the postseason and World Series on this roster? 00:50:37 Speaker 2: I don't know if it's a necessity, but I'm not opposed to it. Again, if your idea of a postseason player is signing Adrian Morajone, who's been in the postseason, or signing Trevor McGill, who's been in the postseason, great. I don't know if it's the end-all, be-all. 00:50:53 Speaker 1: I would look more at character over postseason resume. The Mariners had someone with every bit of postseason experience on their roster for the last two and a half seasons. Were people looking to him? Yeah. 00:51:06 Speaker 2: You mean Randy. 00:51:08 Speaker 1: Is that a no? Nope. No, people were not. So yeah, I would look more at character over postseason experience. But also, this roster has postseason experience. They went to the ALCS last year. Cal, Julio, Canzone, Gilbert, Kirby, Miller, Wu, Munoz, Brash, Spire. They all got postseason experience. Home and road. It wasn't like a three-game wildcard series. They played... Quite a few games last year in the postseason. 00:51:37 Speaker 2: They did. They absolutely did. And guys like Tommy Pham have played in the postseason, but do you want Tommy Pham on the roster? I have my concerns if you're trying to reset a culture. 00:51:49 Speaker 1: And John specifies this and says, especially on the pitching side, I just don't know where those players fit in. If you're adding. 00:52:02 Speaker 1: Experience postseason pitchers, unless it's just like someone for your bullpen. 00:52:06 Speaker 2: Fine. 00:52:06 Speaker 1: Like more home. 00:52:07 Speaker 2: Great. 00:52:07 Speaker 1: He's played in the postseason, been to the postseason more times than the Mariners have, but it's not like a significant amount more. Right. So it just depends on who it is. Okay. 00:52:20 Speaker 2: That's fair. Totally fair. 00:52:23 Speaker 1: Next question comes from Alex on Patreon. Alex's question is a few weeks ago. I asked how aggressive Jerry needed to be with player acquisition and before the lockout. Since then, Jerry has admitted the organization has become too insular and said they want the new manager and coaching staff to bring some external perspective. Do you think Jerry and Justin could be part of the problem of being too insular given that there wasn't much turnover in the front office? 00:52:53 Speaker 2: Just about how confident they are in their own roster. That's what I picked up from this question. 00:52:58 Speaker 1: Kind of where it's like Jerry says he wants outside perspective, but in terms of the roster builders, there is no outside perspective. 00:53:08 Speaker 2: So the suggestion here is to bring more outside voices into the front office to help evaluate players to bring in the right players. Again, this question confused me a little bit. 00:53:20 Speaker 1: Where it's like, are you still concerned with Jerry and Justin's ability to build this roster out this offseason? because there's no change in GM or president. 00:53:33 Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's the concern a lot of people have these days, because they just haven't won enough in their decade plus of being here. So all you can do is hope at this point and hope they do a good enough job to put together a roster that is good enough to win a World Series. But do we have concerns? 00:53:49 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:53:50 Speaker 2: They have proven they can build up a lot of good systems organizationally. They've proven they can build up a farm system. They've proven they can develop homegrown pitching. They haven't proven they can take a big league roster over the top. They just haven't. So am I concerned with that? Yes, I am. I hope it changes, but I am concerned. 00:54:13 Speaker 1: More to Alex's question, because there's a bit of a long one. It's like, could some of those same blind spots for the roster, right-handed hitting platoon bats, exist in how they build the roster? Yes, I absolutely think so. They are going to need to prove they can amend that in this offseason. Because that's going to be the only chance they get. Because if they build another mediocre roster next year and they don't win, then they're out of a job, I think. 00:54:41 Speaker 2: Well, and they're going to have to do a lot with right-handed hitters because you had a problem with right-handed hitting before letting Randy leave. Assuming Randy's not back, you have to find a guy to replace Randy's production from the right side and then still find more right-handed hitters. It's a lot. 00:54:59 Speaker 1: They'll have to answer a lot of questions this offseason. There's a lot of question asking. There's a lot of self-evaluation and It's yet to be seen whether or not they can fix those in this offseason during a lockout, nonetheless. Final question in this mailbag comes from Cameron. Cameron's question is, guys, I did some research, and the last time the Mariners finished with a winning record on the road in a season was 2023. Why do you guys think they've played so bad on the road since then? 00:55:28 Speaker 2: I think the simple answer is the pitching. And it's not the first time we've talked about this, but This Mariners pitching staff ranks 21st in road ERA since 2024. That's not going to cut it. For a team and a pitching staff that's often been headlined as one of the best in baseball, you can't be one of the best in baseball half the time. And when you are a bottom 10 pitching staff in baseball on the road over a cumulative sample of the last three years, yeah, that's going to lead to a lot of problems. And we've seen it lead to problems. I don't know how you fix that. Because they're not overhauling this rotation, but they have to find a way to fix it. 00:56:08 Speaker 1: Pitching is the roster specific thing to answer. But the overarching one is that they're not an elite team. 00:56:17 Speaker 2: That's why. 00:56:18 Speaker 1: They're a good team. But good teams mean you're not invincible on the road. So you're not going to win 55% of your road games. You know what like 100 plus win teams do? They finish with a winning record on the road all the time. Because that's just math. But the Mariners have not been an elite team. They haven't taken that step forward. Their win ceiling is 90 wins. If it was higher than that, then maybe they'd have a winning record on the road. But they don't because they don't build elite teams and haven't proven to build an elite team in 25 years. 100%. 00:56:51 Speaker 2: Maybe that'll change one day. 00:56:52 Speaker 1: Who knows? I'd love to see when. 00:56:56 Speaker 2: We're all waiting. 00:56:59 Speaker 1: I have no reason to tell you it's going to be next year. No. 00:57:03 Speaker 2: I mean, that would be something if they just turned from a terrible road team to a great road team in one year. Probably means they did a lot in the offseason. 00:57:10 Speaker 1: You would think. But as of right now, the Mariners are projected to have a less talented team next year than they have this year. 00:57:17 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:57:18 Speaker 1: Like, how do you get around that? 00:57:20 Speaker 2: As you put it during the last question, they have a lot of things to answer this winter. 00:57:24 Speaker 1: Yes, they do. 00:57:25 Speaker 2: Yep. And not a lot of time. 00:57:27 Speaker 1: So. 00:57:28 Speaker 2: All right, good mailbag. You guys always bring it with the questions. We love all the questions you guys send. And if you want priority on having a question answered, again, go over to our Patreon and sign up at patreon.com slash marinelayerpod. You get priority on mailbag questions every single week. And with that, that'll just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Layer Podcast. You guys know the drill. If you want to listen to the full-form podcasts, You can do so wherever you get your audio pods. Make sure to download these episodes if you're listening. Please go leave a five-star review if you're listening, and go leave a written review while you're at it, too, if you have some time and you want to leave your thoughts on the show. We would love to hear. Hit subscribe if you're watching on YouTube. You can also check us out on our website, which is marinelayerpod.com. You can find all of our merch, all of our episodes, and our Patreon, which is all there. Again, that's marinelayerpod.com. And find us all across social media. We're posting content all the time, every day, across all of our platforms, at MarineLayerPod. That's TJ. I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon.