Episode 114: Jason Churchill (Baseball Things)

[00:00:00] Welcome to episode number 114 of the Marine Layer Podcast. We welcome on friend of the podcast Jason Churchill,

[00:00:07] the host of Baseball Things for a conversation all about the Mariners 2024 season.

[00:00:30] We welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the just baseball podcast network.

[00:00:52] Recording here on Monday evening March 25th and opening day is just three days away as of recording.

[00:01:02] It'll be two days as of the time this podcast comes out. And man, like we did this last year,

[00:01:08] and it really worked out so well. We're here. We had Jason Churchill on the episode before opening day

[00:01:14] came out or the week of opening day coming out. And we did it again, just wrapped up the conversation with Jason.

[00:01:21] I mean, he the amount of detail Jason Churchill goes into and talks about baseball is amazing. It's truly amazing.

[00:01:30] And I frame this at the beginning of the conversation that we have with him. It's so much fun now to see these sort of unique aspects.

[00:01:39] All of us take up in the space of Mariners content and Mariners evaluation and Mariners talk of how many different roles people can fill.

[00:01:49] Jason Churchill's content and our content like they overlap, but very different styles. And I'm glad he's able to come on and sort of bring that balance a little bit.

[00:02:01] I will say as we talked to him a little about in the interview, I do miss him being on Twitter because for years,

[00:02:06] I always used to kind of see where Churchill was out with his takes and see where I was at with mine and say,

[00:02:11] okay, how far off am I on this? Because he's so smartly. I think he gets a lot of things right.

[00:02:16] I think he's very detail oriented and thinks things out a lot. So when you can't have him on Twitter,

[00:02:23] you can have him on the podcast, which is great. I actually really hope we can kind of make this a yearly tradition

[00:02:27] where we can now have him on before the start of each season and just kind of

[00:02:31] shoot him some questions about what are we thinking, what's he thinking? What do we feel like the season's going to look like?

[00:02:37] What did the off season look like? It was really fun. We covered a lot.

[00:02:41] And we can't wait for you guys to hear this conversation because it was a really fun one.

[00:02:44] It's basically the bulk of the whole show.

[00:02:47] We talk about Brian Wu in there a little bit. I guess to just preface today's news or I should say Monday's news.

[00:02:54] Yeah, he's going to start the year on the IL. It's not ideal. It's a bummer.

[00:02:57] I wouldn't be overly concerned. All the reports are it's going to be pretty short term. It's probably

[00:03:02] going to be one or two starts. I just thought we'd at least mention that before we get to the conversation.

[00:03:06] But I don't think anybody should be panicking.

[00:03:09] Yeah, not overly panicking yet. There are no structural damages, I believe they did do an MRI and

[00:03:14] his elbow and everything's fine. So now the concern comes when he ramps back up again. How is he

[00:03:19] going to feel because if he ramps back up again and he can't then he gets shut down for longer

[00:03:23] and then the Mariners actually have an issue. It's like the one of the few things we highlighted at

[00:03:28] the end of the off season that we were truly concerned with. So the guy goes down and now Emerson

[00:03:33] Hancock is in that role. The next two upper Levi's doubt in Austin both. So at that point you

[00:03:41] might start getting uncomfortable with who's occupying that number five starter spot. But as of right

[00:03:47] now things are fine. Who's helped who is for the most part healthy and he will get back to

[00:03:53] throwing here in a couple of weeks. So now's the time for Emerson Hancock to come up and

[00:03:59] and to sort of show himself who saw some velocity in spring. Sure, he might not be totally ready

[00:04:05] to be every fifth day starter in the big leagues but feel like this year he's certainly more prepared

[00:04:10] than he was last year. It's a great opportunity for him again. The most important thing about everything

[00:04:16] else is it doesn't seem overly serious. So we thought we'd preface that and talk about that for

[00:04:21] at least a minute here or two before we get to the conversation with Jason Churchill let's take

[00:04:26] a quick pause and talk to you about our friends over at Pagatius pub 85 that's over in Kirkland.

[00:04:32] It is the week of opening day guys. I know you're going to need some spots to watch the game.

[00:04:36] So go ahead over there. There's over 20 TVs in the place. You want to go watch March madness.

[00:04:41] You can do that too and watch the Mariners all at the same time and have a great time with your

[00:04:45] friends. If you go during happy hour, you can get some great drink specials there from Monday through

[00:04:49] Friday from two to six PM. It features $3 domestic beers, $4 mannies blue moons, $4 mac and jacks,

[00:04:55] $4 wells, $4 house wines. All of that is over at Pagatius pub 85 in Kirkland.

[00:05:02] Alright let's get to our conversation now with Jason Churchill.

[00:05:07] We have Jason Churchill on with us. He's the host of baseball things. He does a ton of stuff

[00:05:12] over at future star series. You also have his newsletter Mariners after midnight. Jason,

[00:05:17] thanks so much for taking some time to join us here today and we're kind of jealous to be honest.

[00:05:21] I want to leave this off because you told us last year that you were going to spend less time

[00:05:27] online in the last calendar year. How was it? It was great and I really haven't stopped.

[00:05:33] Yeah, I've been honest with you. Really I haven't stopped like there's less social media for me,

[00:05:37] less active social media for me. It's all planned out a lot of it is scheduled a lot of it's automated

[00:05:43] it's been really great. It's picked up since maybe November, November was pretty slow. I think

[00:05:47] it was slow for everybody where you're kind of making up stuff to talk about. It's more about ideas

[00:05:52] and what if they did this and what if baseball did this, what if the Mariners did this but

[00:05:57] it was nice not to have something every day to think about because I think the worst thing for

[00:06:06] me sometimes is I get certain things in my hand. It's like okay the team is 500 after 30 games and

[00:06:11] maybe Julio's struggling or something and it's like I'm thinking about things like that because

[00:06:15] people are asking about things like that. People are writing about things like that. I'm thinking

[00:06:18] about that on my own and then something happens. Somebody gets hurt or somebody gets traded and it's

[00:06:23] like I was already thinking about this and now I got to change and I got to think about this. So when

[00:06:28] the off season comes, that's on steroids because it's all about ideas and everybody has a different

[00:06:34] idea and hey what if this guy let off? What if they sign this guy or trade it for this guy? It's

[00:06:38] like I do that on my own and then you hear everybody else's idea. I hear your guys' ideas. I hear

[00:06:43] Ryan Divish's ideas. I hear the radio guys and the TV guys talking and it was nice to shut that

[00:06:48] down for a good while and even though I think the off season, it was a little boring. We got some runs,

[00:06:57] some signings and it would die for two or three weeks and we get a signing and it would die.

[00:07:02] They probably have to do something about that but it was really nice and I've carried some of that

[00:07:05] over into the spring a little bit. More of a narrowed focus I think and it's really helped.

[00:07:11] So it's been nice. They're all the curtain back just a little bit in December. It's like

[00:07:14] something to on here. I think I just got used to waiting until something actually happened and

[00:07:22] I was like, I'm not going to do this speculation thing constantly in my head as much as I used to.

[00:07:28] I'm going to wait till something happens. I'm not going to react to rumors. I'm not going to

[00:07:32] react to ideas as much. I'm going to wait till something happens. Oh, they signed

[00:07:39] Mitch Garber. Okay, cool. Let's talk about that. Mitch Garber is talking with the amps. What

[00:07:45] could that look like? I'm waiting till he signs. So I'm not wasting energy because it does feel

[00:07:51] like when you talk about things that have no chance to happen or it's just one of a billion things

[00:07:56] that could happen really. It does feel for me anyway. I kind of just wasted an hour on doing a show

[00:08:02] man. They could trade for Jeff McNeil and then they don't and they get Polanco instead and I feel

[00:08:08] like I just I should just delete that episode from the feed. I feel like that sometimes. I don't

[00:08:13] but I do feel like that. And I guess that's the nature of podcasting and radio, but

[00:08:17] I've tried to limit that a little bit. So and focusing on facts as much as possible,

[00:08:23] you know, reacting to actual news as much as possible is really only do that. So think it.

[00:08:28] I'm feeling a direct shot right at us because back in December, we did a whole show on red report.

[00:08:34] Show Hey, may take a one year 65 million dollar deal from the Mariners. Can it happen? No, no,

[00:08:39] I certainly wouldn't call it a shot at anybody because like like you should do the content that

[00:08:44] you're inclined to do and you should not do content that you are not inclined to. I've never

[00:08:48] believed in well, the listeners want to hear this sort of content. So you should do it. No,

[00:08:54] no, absolutely not because if you told me, Hey, my favorite thing to talk about is like

[00:09:00] lineup construction. Like do we do left right left or what kind of hitter do you want to put? If

[00:09:04] that's like one of your favorite things to talk about, you should absolutely talk about that.

[00:09:07] But if you said one of my least favorite things to talk about is I know defensive metrics or

[00:09:12] something because that would be one of mine, then you should really never talk about defensive

[00:09:16] metrics. If somebody asks about it have a short answer, don't dig into that. Don't talk about

[00:09:21] stuff you don't like because you know what the conversation about the lineup because you like

[00:09:25] talking about that is going to be 50 times better. Even if you beat it to death, then if you talk

[00:09:29] about something you don't want to talk about, it's the same thing with me in news. I don't want

[00:09:33] to see news. I don't want to see news in 15 years. It's all bad. So I don't want to talk about it.

[00:09:37] It's the same kind of idea defensive metrics bore the daylights out of me. I don't get a ton of

[00:09:41] value out of them. I don't want to talk about it bare minimum. I want to talk about lineups or

[00:09:45] rotations and what order I put it in. So I chased that stuff because I think the show is going to be

[00:09:50] better as a result of it. So no, I would never rag on someone for talking about that stuff because

[00:09:55] I mean, if you're a what if person and that gets you going, it's going to be pretty good, right?

[00:09:59] Because you're going to be excited. You know, TJ Spina can be very excited if Lyle's excited.

[00:10:03] And I feel like if TJ is excited, Lyle's not excited. So I feel like that's the, is that kind

[00:10:08] of the trade off here? Do you guys get excited about the same stuff all the time? Let's say we

[00:10:12] I'm on the something. I'm on to something. I think we're pretty similar assignments. I'll say

[00:10:16] that's among the most fun I've had on an episode is speculating just this assing idea of something

[00:10:22] that will never happen. And then 24 hours later, he signs for, you know, 10 times that amount.

[00:10:27] Right. With a team that with the team with everybody.

[00:10:30] Everybody's going to sign. Yeah. We've known for like two years.

[00:10:33] It was a great 24 hours Jason. I would and if that's what you enjoy, then that's what you should do.

[00:10:38] Absolutely. That's that's not necessarily something I'm going to listen to. But

[00:10:41] that's what you should do. Absolutely. People say, hey, should I start a podcast? You're asking

[00:10:45] the question. So I think the answer is yes, should we talk about this? It kind of sounds like

[00:10:48] you want to. So I think you absolutely should. That's the big difference between news and doing what

[00:10:54] you and I do what you guys do when I do. We get to talk about what we want. You don't have to

[00:10:58] talk about anything you don't want to. So that's something you like cool. But for me, it's just

[00:11:03] I can't do this whole this what if game. And I knew O'Tani was not happening. I think we all

[00:11:10] knew O'Tani was not happening. And it just seemed like a waste of time to me, you know? Like would

[00:11:15] you bet O'Tani in the lead off spot? I don't know. I think I bet Moody Betts in the lead off spot.

[00:11:19] No, no, if he was on the mirrors, I think I bet Moody Betts in the lead off spot for the

[00:11:22] Dodgers instead of O'Tani. I think I bet O'Tani's second. Like I'm not answering that question,

[00:11:26] man. Come on. Like it's I don't know. I'm not playing fantasy baseball here. But you know,

[00:11:29] that's like again, it's if it's something you enjoy, you should absolutely do because it's going

[00:11:33] to be a good segment. You know, relative to talking about something you think you should talk about

[00:11:37] or you have to talk about something I hate when I was in radio. Like dang it, Steve Sammire,

[00:11:41] I don't want to talk about this. I don't want to talk about the All Star game. Steve, I'll tell

[00:11:45] you guys a little story. I didn't know anything about radio. Okay. And I was only there two years

[00:11:49] still really don't know anything about radio. But I was stubborn was that's pretty laughable.

[00:11:58] I hate the All Star game. Hate it. I don't care about it. I don't want to hear who made it. I don't

[00:12:03] care. I don't want to watch it. I will not watch it. And and I would say that on the air.

[00:12:08] And but Steve was like, people care about this. You know, we should at least, you know, talk about

[00:12:12] people want to hear, you know, a conversation about it. And so we come to breaking just like,

[00:12:17] I get it, dude, I get it. But you can't say you don't care about it. Just don't say you don't

[00:12:22] care about it. I was like, all right, I won't say that. But I'm not going to care about it. He's like,

[00:12:25] I guess I get that you don't like it and you don't care about it. But you can't say that's different.

[00:12:30] It's commercial radio. You're doing three hours a day, five days a week. You have a podcast you do

[00:12:34] for a couple hours a week. You got to pick the stuff you really want to talk about. And that's why

[00:12:38] the podcast format has been so interesting to me for the last six or seven years. So yeah, I

[00:12:44] certainly won't rag on you guys for picking out the year in 65 million dollars. How do we make that

[00:12:48] work? You know, it would have actually been a fun conversation. Oh, you mean the mirrors don't

[00:12:51] have any budget? How do we create? Did you guys do this? How do we create 65 million dollars in

[00:12:57] budget space to fit Shohei O'Conan? Who do we have to trade for peanuts? Ty France.

[00:13:03] Anybody, Luis Castillo, anybody making money, right?

[00:13:05] Except who they are. What did it mean? Castillo? I think. I don't know. We like that space.

[00:13:11] We never specifically strategized how to clear out all that space. But it's like, well,

[00:13:15] if they were actually going to stand on the budget, it's like, well, Castillo would put them like

[00:13:18] 50, what, 55, 60-ish close. It would have been close. Yeah. They had one trip. And I wonder

[00:13:25] this is something I do wonder because it was and still is my opinion that whatever dollar amount

[00:13:31] it would have cost to get O'Conan, it would have been worth it. Like you're going to make it back.

[00:13:34] Yeah. Yeah. So like if your budget without O'Conan is 150, your budget with O'Conan should be

[00:13:40] 200, because your revenues are just going to skyrocket as a result of whatever the number is. Do

[00:13:46] the math. You have smart people do the math, right? But yeah, I chase and I think as I get older

[00:13:53] and want to spend less time on the minutia of it, I narrow the focus. It's like, all right,

[00:14:01] let's wait until something happens because you know, you know, you know, guy gets hurt and they're like,

[00:14:03] what are they going to do now? I'm like, can we just wait to see how long he's going to be out

[00:14:07] before we go? What are they going to do? What are they going to do? Brashes out, Santoses out,

[00:14:11] who is out? What are they going to do? What are they going to do? We don't even know how long

[00:14:13] they're going to be out. And people want answers. Damn it. They want answers. I don't know. I don't

[00:14:17] know. But let's wait for some tests to come back. I don't know. Can we be patient? I mean,

[00:14:21] the answer is no, but I'm doing my best. You know, isn't that what's so awesome about this

[00:14:26] space? As you mentioned, like, no, I want to talk about the point of like, if you're going to do

[00:14:35] something, you want to do it your exact way. Like you said, I want to talk about line-ups,

[00:14:39] I want to talk about rotations, I want to talk about the minor league system. I want to do these

[00:14:42] things that I care about. And that's all I'm going to talk about. I don't care if you guys want

[00:14:45] me to talk about something else. I'm not going to talk about it because I don't care about those

[00:14:48] things. I care about these things and that we get to a point where you can just, you can create

[00:14:54] now your own, your own platform to do exactly that. And that's all you have to do. It's great.

[00:15:00] It's like what Lyle and I have done. We've found our niche of doing fun topics, but also like,

[00:15:05] we seriously break down things. And we have great interviews as well. And we be ourselves

[00:15:10] a little bit. We'll also mix in some fun social media content and that's completely different

[00:15:14] from what you do. Completely different. And yet, you will not have the choice of both. And it

[00:15:19] doesn't just have to be like, oh, radio's been this way for 20 years. This is how you host a radio show.

[00:15:24] It's like no, no, not anymore. It is a lot different and it's funny. You look around it.

[00:15:29] Some of the local guys have podcasts aside from their daily show that's about completely

[00:15:35] different stuff that they haven't really talked about where they can dig in a little deeper.

[00:15:38] And if you don't want to list, too, you don't have to. But that is the thing.

[00:15:44] Like you guys do one thing and I kind of do another even though the topic is the same.

[00:15:49] It's baseball. It's Mariners baseball mostly if not entirely, right? But the things you guys talk

[00:15:54] about are at least to a great extent different. Like I'm going to dive into different things.

[00:15:59] And so as a consumer, when football season comes, guys, it's like, I'll drag my TV. So I did this

[00:16:07] really goofy kind of college bachelor sort of thing in the master bedroom here at home.

[00:16:14] I put my television on one of those, uh,

[00:16:18] wheeled carts that like a teacher would have. And people are like, what are you doing?

[00:16:23] Like what are you 12? I was like kind of, you know, and and I did that. So on like college football

[00:16:29] Saturday or whatever, I'd pull that TV out and plug it in and put it right next to it. So I got

[00:16:33] two huge screen TVs like right next to each other. And and as a consumer, I get to do,

[00:16:39] I get to watch whatever I want on these three four screens. If I open my laptop or five,

[00:16:43] if I want to use my phone, and that's kind of how like we consume content these days, you can have

[00:16:49] you can have it all, you can literally have it all because I know Steve Sam and I talk me this.

[00:16:55] You don't need people to be loyal to you. I don't need people to be loyal to me. I just need

[00:17:00] that we just need our audience and whether we're trying to grow an audience or we're happy with

[00:17:06] the audience we have or both, because it should be both. We just need to be in their rotation.

[00:17:12] Because it's like you don't have a favorite artist. You have favorite artists probably right? You

[00:17:17] don't listen to just one. You might prefer one over the other but it's not just one. You're not

[00:17:21] just like I, you know, I don't know who your favorite artist would be. You don't have one show that

[00:17:24] you watch or one movie. You have many, right? And it just goes around and you just kind of do this.

[00:17:30] It's the same thing with with with podcasting with with writers and you can like them all to some

[00:17:36] extent and just pick and choose when you listen when you read. You're right. TJ, that is the best thing.

[00:17:41] I thought you were going down the road of isn't it great where people can jump on Twitter and I was

[00:17:45] like, no, absolutely. Yeah, well, yeah, well, you make your place still doing it anyway. It's

[00:17:50] unfortunately, you do that too. Yeah, I think we all do to some of them.

[00:17:54] I do want to ask about your show with Sam Meyer a little bit. The last time we had you on,

[00:17:58] I don't think we ever talked about it but just like following you over the years talking to you

[00:18:01] about it off, off recording, I know it's something you were always super passionate about in the time

[00:18:07] you did it. Like was that the most fun you've had working in sports? Yeah, yeah. And to be honest with

[00:18:13] you, I would say the only thing that comes close even though it wasn't a full-time job was the

[00:18:20] stuff I got to do with Aaron Goldsmith for Fox. Like there was so much fun in that and it's because

[00:18:25] of Steve and it's because of Aaron. It sounds kind of corny but it really is about the people you're

[00:18:31] working with and that you're around. I mean, you guys just had Aaron on. Aaron is an absolute character

[00:18:38] and there's a joke and he's probably going to find it and the more you're around him,

[00:18:45] the more you hear that sort of thing. And Sam Meyer literally will just crit. Sam Meyer was,

[00:18:51] he was like the Chris Farley of sports radio and oddly enough, he did a really great Chris Farley

[00:18:57] impersonation right there in the studio. He'd kick his seat back and just go into his down by the

[00:19:02] river, Matt Foley kind of thing and he just made it so fun I did learn a lot from him. I would say

[00:19:09] that was easy. I mean, it was a three to seven show. The first three hours were live. The last

[00:19:16] hour was basically like the three best segments we just had. I'd stay up until four in the morning,

[00:19:23] sleep till noon, get to the studio at 220, 230, sometimes 245. Talk to Steve in the office

[00:19:31] and his office for like 10 minutes and then we go into studio and do a three hour show and talk

[00:19:35] about like sea oxen mariners and stuff. And it's like, it doesn't get any better than that.

[00:19:39] You know, it absolutely doesn't get any better than that. Steve is, Steve is fantastic. And I think

[00:19:44] when CBS kind of sold us out and then they sold all their stations, the most disappointing thing was

[00:19:51] that Steve didn't continue to pursue sports radio so good at it. To watch him operate was like,

[00:19:59] it was magic. It was like, I don't know how he's doing this. Like he will literally like,

[00:20:04] we'll have a guest on and it could be like the beat reporter for the Dallas Cowboys or something,

[00:20:08] right? Like Seattle's playing the Cowboys this weekend. And I would get nervous because I'm like the

[00:20:13] new guy and I'm sitting across from him and we asked this guy a question and the guys answering

[00:20:19] the question and Steve hits the mute button on his mic and it's talking to the producer and I'm like

[00:20:24] Steve, what if he's done talking and you're talking over there like I'm not prepared to like take

[00:20:30] over and handle this right now. Like and he would always like always the timing would always be

[00:20:34] perfect. Like he would always be able to be done get the information he needed and still somehow

[00:20:40] take in the answer that our guest was given him. I don't know how he did it. The guy was fantastic

[00:20:45] and we had a lot of fun. I never laughed so hard in my life. It was really great. Yeah,

[00:20:50] it was really great. I always said I'll never go back into radio unless Steve does and wants me

[00:20:55] to come with them, then I wouldn't even think twice. All right. So it sounds like 99% the doors closed

[00:21:02] but maybe not totally. There is a scenario where you can get back into it. A small scenario very small.

[00:21:08] I would say there was a greater chance of show Hayotani signing with the Mariners than that happening

[00:21:15] though. So maybe not. So it's so it's non zero but it's really yeah, it's pretty much zero.

[00:21:22] Yeah. Okay. Well, okay getting all the way back to kind of where this conversation started in

[00:21:27] terms of TJ was like oh in December did you care to peek your head into the Twitter world at all

[00:21:32] or not even if even if the answer was no where was your head at I would say when the Jared

[00:21:38] Kellnick trade went down because for a lot of people like I know on this podcast that was the time

[00:21:43] of the offseason before all the moves started to happen where we sat here and said like

[00:21:47] what is this team going to do moving forward because it felt like they were essentially punting on

[00:21:52] an offseason like did you have this feeling of like did you have a similar feeling or did you say

[00:21:57] now they're gonna figure it out. I didn't really know what they were gonna do to be honest with you.

[00:22:02] I thought they were gonna have to be creative kind of go back to the way that Jerry put together

[00:22:07] the 1617 and 18 team. You're not adding you know payroll really have to be created with it maybe

[00:22:13] swap out this payroll for that payroll and they did that several times this winner when they moved

[00:22:18] like I knew Kellnick was getting moved. I think a lot of people felt that was coming right but then

[00:22:22] when it was hey this is what they're getting back and oh by the way Marco's deal is going with them

[00:22:28] Evan white deals going on it's like okay I see what they're doing here so that told me that they

[00:22:33] had a backup plan and that that was just step one but it was really really disappointing because

[00:22:39] you should be able to get more for Jerry Kellnick and when you have to attach money to it

[00:22:44] when you do that just so you can attach money to it. It's really disappointing so that to me was the

[00:22:48] first sign of the level to what degree payroll was essentially being frozen you know I mean

[00:22:54] that's what happened we haven't cut payroll we haven't seen the mayor's cut payroll because they're

[00:22:58] actually a little over where they were a year ago after the stan exciting but it was disappointing

[00:23:04] because if you even go to 155 160 it's a completely different offseason you might be able to keep

[00:23:11] a annual swore as a third base and hope he bounces back a little bit but at least you're going

[00:23:15] to get pretty good defense in a guy to clubhouse likes and a guy to hit the ball out of the ballpark

[00:23:19] and and still add a Mitch Garber maybe even still add a Jorge Polanco you know what I mean so

[00:23:24] it was disappointing I figured they're going to be limited and they're going to have to take more

[00:23:28] chances and the risk is going to be higher on this team and at the end of the day I think

[00:23:33] I think we all agree that's what we're looking at we're probably looking at team with more upside

[00:23:36] than last year but with more risk as well from injury from an injury point of view and from a

[00:23:41] performance point of view I don't think we really know where we're going to see from Dom Canzone or Luke

[00:23:46] Rayleigh for sure or Luis Urias those three in particular so there's some risks there too

[00:23:51] really disappointing but yeah the Celtic with the Celtic trade was the was the big sign

[00:23:56] the big kind of uh oh you know and I think I reacted to it like an eighth grader being asked

[00:24:00] to empty the dishwasher take out the garbage my eyes roll and I was like gotta be kidding me like

[00:24:06] like now we're knowing this like yeah that was really disappointing but it feels like now that

[00:24:11] the offseason is concluded in the first time that since Jerry has overseen the Mariners organization

[00:24:18] this is like the first time it feels like they've not like left camp a player short like with

[00:24:24] they you don't look at the roster and you say like there's still a pretty clear hole I mean some

[00:24:30] people are gonna say third base and they certainly have plenty of reason to think that but I mean

[00:24:35] in terms of all the boxes they needed to check in the offseason DH hole solved for most part second

[00:24:41] base given health solved corner out field spots upgraded in both of them like let's gotta check

[00:24:49] like you start going down the list and you're like well I'm like like this is like actually like

[00:24:54] the circles complete it feels like yeah they've and earlier in the offseason I kind of called it

[00:25:00] like a little magic act because considering the hand that they were dealt and the lack of resources

[00:25:07] they did a really good job putting the other team that people can believe in you know like it should

[00:25:11] have looked different you know it should have looked different there should have been a little bit

[00:25:15] more money spent maybe take a chance on a Belinger maybe take a chance on you know Dunghulu or somebody

[00:25:22] like that you know somebody that with a higher probability you know attached to him even though

[00:25:27] it was gonna cost you more money I think that would have been ideal and then maybe a Luke Raylee's not

[00:25:33] here and in that case although I love that trade or you're or you don't make the Mitchanager deal

[00:25:37] you know with with Robbie Ray maybe don't make that deal if you have more money Robbie Ray is still

[00:25:41] around for maybe August or September and maybe even next year and and yeah you still basically

[00:25:48] on the same offense you do and it's like you know it's disappointing because with the Brian Wu thing

[00:25:56] that hit on on Monday and we don't know how long he's gonna be out but the question always comes up

[00:26:01] is like what do they do if he is and and then the other side of it you know you get some people saying

[00:26:07] see they should assign Blake Snow well here's the thing at when the off season started I was like

[00:26:14] they need to get up like a mid rotation to back end rotation veteran one of my ideas was like Sean

[00:26:20] Maniah you know and I can't remember what he costs but let's just say it was $10 million or $8

[00:26:24] million something like that if you spend eight to ten million dollars on Sean Maniah because

[00:26:29] you feel like Brian Wu should start the year in the miders or you feel like he should start the

[00:26:33] the year in the pan or you're a little worried about his arm or whatever the situation is

[00:26:38] if you do that that's 8 to 10 million less in payroll space you have and guess what you don't

[00:26:43] get to do at that point you can have either Jorge Polanco or Mitch Garver with Sean Maniah but not

[00:26:50] both who would you rather have even right now with the Brian Wu news not knowing whether he's gonna

[00:26:54] miss a week or longer Sean Maniah just for example because he cost about that much or Jorge Polanco

[00:27:02] or Sean Maniah or or Mitch Garver I think you're taking the hitters right guys you're taking the

[00:27:08] hitter you're taking Maniah are you taking Garver over Maniah right and you're taking Polanco over

[00:27:13] Maniah yeah that's the kind of scenario that front office was in right like it was kind of an old

[00:27:18] brainer the only thing I wish they would have done and I think it was also difficult was find

[00:27:23] that guy that's on the fringe the Austin vote type find another guy like that that you thought

[00:27:28] could give you eight starts during the year 10 starts during the year that might cost you two to

[00:27:33] three million dollars I was hoping they would find a guy like that when you look on the market

[00:27:38] like Kenan Middleton got like six or seven million dollars for one year as a relief

[00:27:44] you weren't getting a two to three million dollar guy who you could lean on for eight to ten

[00:27:48] starts it just wasn't there I just never they'd had to trade for it so I think they have done

[00:27:53] a really good job and and I think because that I think most mirror fans are still excited for the

[00:27:57] season to start and they still believe in this team despite the fact that ownership didn't

[00:28:02] didn't hold up their end of the bargain I don't think there's any other way around it they didn't

[00:28:06] they haven't and the front office is is saving their ass so to speak and I know this is this is

[00:28:13] coming up in some circles but with service and the contracts for service and depot I got to think

[00:28:19] that's not entirely one side and I gotta think that service and depot on 100% sure this is the

[00:28:23] place for them you know I don't think depot was walking away but there might be a little hesitation

[00:28:28] it do it do I deserve this I think I deserve better than this I've done a good job I deserve

[00:28:33] the support what in the world is going to three times guys he said his offseason plans pulled out

[00:28:39] from under three times in what four years I think it is if I'm the GM man if Jerry to put

[00:28:45] on walked away from the angels he might have already walked away from marriage but he's not going

[00:28:49] to get to do that twice and get another get another president job or a GM job so I think he's

[00:28:53] gonna sit around and see what he can do this year and kind of see what happens but

[00:28:58] it's hard to look at the transactions as a whole and be disappointed considering what we know about

[00:29:04] about the resources they had to play with and they didn't trade from the rotation and they didn't

[00:29:08] trade what Gabriel Gonzalez was the best prospect they traded man I mean again magic act right

[00:29:14] what's kind of remarkable is like the moves in the offseason gave no indication that there

[00:29:19] was a lame duck manager and a lame lame duck duck executive like none at all like you would imagine

[00:29:24] if someone's worried about their job like your trade you have no problem trading any of the top

[00:29:29] six prospects away for a major piece you could also make a case though that the reason for that

[00:29:36] is because they didn't have resources to go do that right yeah if you're trading you know

[00:29:42] young and hairy Ford and Gonzalez and and woo in two different deals you're probably bringing back

[00:29:49] a player that's making money you didn't have that flexibility right couldn't go get one sodo even

[00:29:55] if it made sense because the money wasn't gonna work yeah so maybe some of that had something to do

[00:30:00] but you're right they certainly didn't act like they were trying to save their jobs because they

[00:30:03] probably would have been a little bit more aggressive right probably would have seen more prospects

[00:30:07] traded like hairy Ford probably gone you know maybe even Cole Young or or Colt Emerson probably

[00:30:12] traded to get a veteran interview I say their job so maybe they don't feel like it's lame duck

[00:30:16] maybe it's just a timing thing but I would not be surprised if we learned that there was a little

[00:30:19] bit of hesitation on service and depotos part about resigning or they didn't like the terms

[00:30:25] maybe the ownership you know in any conversations they may have had I don't know that they have or not

[00:30:29] weren't really did they're liking maybe they only wanted to do one year or two years and those

[00:30:32] guys wanted three or four I think they've earned it I mean what's it been nine years and look where

[00:30:36] they are without spending a bunch of money kind of saving the ownership's ass every single year making

[00:30:41] the team relevant making that ownership giving that ownership money to throw into their pockets

[00:30:46] and not back into the team right and that's because depoto and holm during that group have done such

[00:30:51] a good job putting this together I don't know I sound like a little bit I sound like a little

[00:30:55] bit of a like a depoto fan so to speak I do think he's done a good job but I will say this just

[00:31:00] before we move on because I've been accused of this before I don't know Jerry depoto I don't

[00:31:05] know never met him never met him never talked to never had him on a show and never had him on my

[00:31:09] and I don't want to we talked about this for me I don't want to I don't think I don't know that he's

[00:31:14] a great executive but I think he's good and I think you get to great by winning divisions and at

[00:31:21] least threatening world series and maybe winning one you know I think I think what happened in

[00:31:29] St. Louis over the years has made some of their executives look great you know Walt Jocke de

[00:31:34] in it a John Mosaic and and you know Brian Cashman had success and now you know he might be the guy

[00:31:40] in that division with the hot of seat but when you win consistently and see I don't realize it

[00:31:46] won yet you know but they're kind of right there in the middle of it it's too early to call him

[00:31:51] great but it's impossible to not sit here and if you truly understand what he was dealt every year

[00:31:59] and as a the bigger picture when he came on in 2016 can't spend any more money we can't add

[00:32:04] to what we're doing and we might ask you to pair back a little bit but we're going to allow you

[00:32:08] to rebuild when it when it comes time you just let us know keep us abreast and we'll let you do

[00:32:13] that but we're not going to spend more money and then we're not going to let you just spend a bunch

[00:32:19] of money once it's time we're going to gradually push that forward and to do the job that they've

[00:32:24] done to open up this 54% window for what Jerry DePoto will call it right but that's where they are

[00:32:29] they're in a position to maybe be what the cardinals were from like I don't know 2006 to 2020 or so

[00:32:37] that's what they're trying to do and and they're trying to do that because that's what's going to be

[00:32:41] dictated of them by that ownership they're not going to spend 200 million dollars on payroll so

[00:32:45] yeah I do like with DePoto's time and I think Justin Haunder's done a really good job supporting

[00:32:49] him as well and they have other staffers that deserve credit but

[00:32:54] Jerry DePoto is the best general manager this organization has ever had even though he hasn't

[00:32:59] won as much as Pat Gillick Pat Gillick was like let me sell out for like these next two or three years

[00:33:03] and at the time it made sense in an older club Jerry DePoto has shown the creativity and the discipline

[00:33:09] that Pat Gillick just didn't have to just didn't have to do it so I hope he stays I hope he stays

[00:33:13] around at least some of three four years because I think they can do some damage and I think they

[00:33:16] have a chance to do some damage this year we'll get back to Jason Churchill here in a second before

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[00:34:53] not available in Washington DC all right back to Jason Churchill yeah it's like so like in other

[00:35:02] words for in terms of like what them trying to be what the cardinals were like you're in contention

[00:35:07] for the postseason every year and you hope a couple of those years you make a deep run is what I

[00:35:11] think you're saying and it's funny you mentioned what you said about depot oh like I look this up

[00:35:15] the other day this is the third or sorry this is the second time in the franchise's history where

[00:35:21] they've had a three plus year stretch where they've won 88 or more games in three consecutive

[00:35:25] season like that's it so like they're not doing that a whole lot with other GMs somebody who grew up

[00:35:31] with bavaisy and then zarenzik yeah like depot has done a lot especially like you said in this

[00:35:36] offseason when he basically had hands tied behind his back with the money he could spend yeah it's

[00:35:41] it's too bad we're not going to get to see that next step this year I don't know if we're

[00:35:44] gonna be able to see it at all yeah I'm the one thing I'm kind of afraid of at this point is

[00:35:49] that the ownership groups going to be like whoa we pulled the plug on adding the payroll

[00:35:55] this year significantly and look what Jerry was still able to do maybe we could just do it this way

[00:36:00] all the time because we're still gonna make money it's like the whole Pittsburgh pirates thing I

[00:36:03] keep bringing up they don't spend money and yet they make money every year the sins and reds don't

[00:36:09] spend money yet they make money every year why would you risk it these guys are like like finance

[00:36:14] guys they they they built tech companies and they sold shares and they bought shares and and that's

[00:36:20] what they do they like hedge their bets right that's what this ownership would be doing is hedging

[00:36:25] the bits like well we're just not gonna we're not gonna risk that because we'd rather make 10 million

[00:36:30] in profit then put another 10 or 15 million investment in it just so we can make that same 10

[00:36:37] million in profit you know I've been having this conversation quite a bit with folks too the incentive

[00:36:42] to win the world series from a financial standpoint is just not there like the Texas Raiders owners

[00:36:49] aren't there's not some significant huge windfall that's just automatically gonna make up for any money

[00:36:54] you put into winning the world series that's not the way it works at all and I was thinking because we

[00:36:58] had on on the future stars series podcast a couple of weeks back we had Jim Duquette on and Duquette

[00:37:04] talked about incentivizing winning from like an individual team standpoint and it got me thinking

[00:37:09] and I came to the conclusion that maybe we need some sort of we take maybe a little bit of the revenue

[00:37:14] sharing and we get a couple of sponsors that like sponsor the world series like it's the Nike world

[00:37:20] series or whatever and we blow up Nike all over the screens give them all the and maybe there's

[00:37:25] like this $200 million pot where the world series winner takes home like a huge chunk of that

[00:37:30] the owner gets to do whatever he wants with it the players bonuses are completely separate

[00:37:35] the owner gets the pocket a hundred million bucks like maybe the second place team gets 50 and then

[00:37:40] maybe the you know the LCS the other three the other two LCS split everything they get 25 a piece

[00:37:45] into 200 million dollar pot at that point you might get some of these teams like Tampa even

[00:37:51] throwing in an extra 15 20 million dollars a year because the chances to win you know 100 million

[00:37:58] in count just throwing out a number maybe that's not the right number it's pretty significant I

[00:38:02] mean that's a year of payroll for the Tampa Bay race sometimes more that's a year or more of

[00:38:07] payroll for the Pittsburgh pirates might they they take a look one day in December and go if we

[00:38:13] just gave I don't know Matt Chapman you know three and 60 and made a Martha basement with that

[00:38:21] increase our chances to get to the playoffs by five to 10% and increase our chances to getting to

[00:38:27] the LCS and getting at least 25 million bucks that would pay for his whole salary this year and then

[00:38:31] some like you know what I'm saying like the decisions become different when the payoff is real

[00:38:36] and winning the world series and like pocketing a huge sum of money that just goes right in the owner's

[00:38:41] pocket he can do whatever the heck he wants with it like that's a completely different set of

[00:38:46] motivations right like if I spend 200 and I can win 100 back that's different to spending 160

[00:38:53] and maybe not having nearly as good a chance to I'll spend that extra 40 or I'll spend 20 or I'll

[00:38:58] spend 25 the incentive to win the world series just is not there the owners don't care about the same

[00:39:04] things that the players do the managers do the coaches do the fans do you want you want your

[00:39:09] mariners to win because you want to be like like they're your team man like you've been rooting for

[00:39:13] them since you were since you can remember it's a pride thing it's a it's a it's it's civic value it's

[00:39:20] it's you celebrate with other fans is something you loved doing when they win that's the most fun

[00:39:24] ever right when they went to the playoffs two years ago that was like incredible the Toronto series

[00:39:28] was like like throw a damn parade it wasn't the world series but it felt like all right we got

[00:39:33] to throw a parade because that was pretty damn cool right the fans get that the owners don't feel

[00:39:38] that they just don't feel that especially a baseball they just don't feel that at all and I don't

[00:39:43] think a salary floor changes that I don't think a salary cap changes that I don't think changing the

[00:39:49] draft or the ppi or any of that I think the only way to truly do that is to tell the owners and

[00:39:55] give the owners now there's this pot of gold right here do you want to legit chance of that or not

[00:40:00] and I don't know what that number is maybe it's 300 million maybe it's 150 million I have no idea

[00:40:04] but there's got to be something and if you take a little bit of that money out of the revenue

[00:40:09] sharing because you're gonna have fewer teams qualifying for the revenue sharing if you tell

[00:40:12] the pits for priors and since they read say oh yeah it was good to the else yes and you win $25

[00:40:16] million are you in 40 million dollars they're gonna spend anyway whether they get that revenue

[00:40:22] sharing or not because hey that's 40 million dollars and then I'll just get you know the 80

[00:40:26] million dollars in revenue sharing at the end of the day they're still in that small market because

[00:40:30] we don't base it we don't base revenue sharing off of how much money they spend on payroll right

[00:40:34] you could spend 200 million dollars on payroll but if you're in that market that's good that's

[00:40:38] going to be a receiver you're still going to get that so now instead of getting a hundred million

[00:40:41] dollars I get a hundred fifty just by spending 30 more million dollars in payroll I get myself a

[00:40:46] better chance at 50 that's a bet I think owners would make more often certainly more often than they

[00:40:51] are now we're probably 50 years away from anything like that happening get a gambling company mind

[00:40:57] right I know it's a bad source subject right now but like draft kings and fandall and casinos

[00:41:03] and like you don't think they throw in a hundred million dollars for it to be the draft kings world

[00:41:06] series I think they would yeah absolutely think they would get a vote on a sponsor we could

[00:41:14] we absolutely can he could probably tell everybody yeah I don't want to speculate I've been

[00:41:19] staying there because I just don't know I just I don't want to say oh come on he did it I don't

[00:41:23] know I really don't know so I'll say we we trashed on the internet here in the first 30 minutes of

[00:41:29] this but the internet showed its good side when when that stuff was all coming out I'll say

[00:41:33] I'm like did they come in I thought I thought the joke I was thoroughly entertained oh the jokes okay

[00:41:39] yeah I thought you meant like we got people we've been patient and people would be like let's wait

[00:41:43] for this to come out because I didn't see any of them I just saw me you'll do like you know

[00:41:47] and I saw all kinds of p-ro stuff come up because you know you see the situations right

[00:41:51] identical and we already know the facts we already know Otoni did he already admitted it didn't

[00:41:55] you guys hear like that was the tone I was getting right right we we know so little it's a

[00:42:00] little bit so it's fishy and certainly fishy gotta be looked at but until we have facts like I just

[00:42:05] yet yeah I don't know I think the jokes were we're funny like like the people being unserious but

[00:42:10] just having kind of happened some fun with it that was like the point but yeah say we used

[00:42:14] where you just said again we got p-ro's on video today like yeah what do you say like he needed

[00:42:21] an interpreter if he had an interpreter he had an Oscar free yeah I was the whole fame yeah

[00:42:26] but I think he kind of further incriminated himself because he said in the 70s and 80s when nobody

[00:42:29] had ever actually accused him of betting on baseball when he was playing in the 70s it was all

[00:42:35] as a manager maybe lay in his plan crew but there was he was never like quote unquote convicted

[00:42:41] of that nobody ever actually put that on paper that that's what they believed happened and he just

[00:42:45] told us he was betting on baseball he's playing he just told us that today yeah well he's already

[00:42:51] got the lifetime band so yeah might as well just air it all out I guess yeah I guess if he feels

[00:42:55] there's no chance yeah I don't know yeah the p-ro's things like I just I don't know I hope

[00:43:00] Otani didn't have anything you know to do with the direct betting if he was just trying to help a

[00:43:05] friend there's a way to explain some of that some people are talking about the illegality of it too

[00:43:11] and it's like yeah you can't bet while you're in California but like people leave California and bet

[00:43:16] all the time and and guess what Otani has a job that takes him away from California so if you look

[00:43:23] at him from away from the MLB thing if you're looking for the you know the legal versus illegal part of

[00:43:28] it there's ways to explain that away too so I'm just like let's just wait for this to come out and

[00:43:32] if he was involved take care of it if he wasn't let's just not convict the guy before you know we go

[00:43:38] through any sort of investigation because there's no other sign of anything in his whole life or

[00:43:42] career that we know of that would point in this direction so this is almost like they should

[00:43:47] assign Blake's now Brian Wusshert that like we we jump to conclusions we overreact we want the

[00:43:52] extreme we want to jump after we want to chase the emotion because we want to be heard and that's

[00:43:57] the easiest way to make noise right well thankfully around baseball it's been a pretty bad run for

[00:44:03] superstars PR wise that say in the last I don't know three years but for Julio it's been exactly

[00:44:09] the opposite I mean we barely heard from them all off season went down to Tampa like locked

[00:44:13] himself in a batting cage and a gym and just was working out a lot of season and you know Jason

[00:44:18] we could really tell when we were down there spring training talking to Julio or try sorry trying

[00:44:23] to talk to Julio but as he told everyone like he just he started saying no so much this off season

[00:44:29] so you just focus on being a better baseball player rather than talking to idiots like us so it's

[00:44:35] just it's remarkable and like I don't want to like set the expectation too high for Julio this

[00:44:40] season but it's really like even though he's only 23 the fact that he seems to have already

[00:44:45] like feared out yeah I just got to cut all this stuff out like this is not like this is not like

[00:44:49] benefiting me I need to do only do things that benefit myself and make me better for this 2023

[00:44:54] season so off of all that what are we expecting for him this year what are you expecting as a step

[00:45:01] for Julio this year yeah that's a good question if I told you guys 23 years old right if I told

[00:45:07] you guys especially after what you just said he's pretty clearly dedicated being as good as he can be

[00:45:12] he cares about that he pretty clearly cares about that he's not just here to make a bunch of money

[00:45:16] it's pretty clear he wants to be at least for now he wants to be good maybe that changes when he gets

[00:45:19] older but right now he's 23 he wants to be he wants to be great and he's attached himself to Seattle

[00:45:25] like there it's a very positive thing for him which is great for Seattle because that's not super

[00:45:30] common you know at least in major league baseball right if I told you like he's been a five to six

[00:45:35] win player two years in a row the first year he did that he missed what 25 30 games

[00:45:42] if I told you that he combined last year's health with his performance in his first season

[00:45:50] plus 15 percent 10 percent and ended up hitting 290 you know 360 to 370 OBP hit 35 homers still 40

[00:46:00] to 50 bags played 150 1555 games played the defense in center field that's a 7 F8 win player

[00:46:08] I don't think that would surprise anybody because it's not all that different than what he's done

[00:46:13] it's just healthy in the lineup pretty much every day and take just a little step forward he takes that

[00:46:18] that kind of a natural step forward that we really haven't seen from him yet because in some ways

[00:46:23] he took a step backward lacer except he was healthy all year right I would be surprised at all

[00:46:27] I think the ceiling for him in 24 is probably 7 F8 wins which is and that's MVP territory like

[00:46:35] in the American League a lot a lot of things to have but Tony's not here anymore

[00:46:39] and you know my track you never know what's going to happen there Aaron Judging I know it's

[00:46:43] gonna happen there who's a better bet in the American League like clearly a better bet to win the

[00:46:48] MVP I don't know if there is someone like you can like it maybe once and how long secret gonna be

[00:46:55] out right right right so so if Seagal was perfectly healthy and didn't have a track record I'd be

[00:47:01] like well there's your number one guy like I would bet on Aaron Judging missing some time I would

[00:47:05] bet on Mike trout missing some time so does the Planey defense but he's in the mix certainly because

[00:47:10] he can end up hitting you know 300 with a 450 OBP and 40 bombs in New York and if they win that

[00:47:15] division he might be the favorite Corey Seagal might be number one if he was going to start the

[00:47:19] season healthy and didn't have the track record he did but yeah is there a better bet in the American

[00:47:24] league to be a 7-8 win MVP the new year Rodriguez I don't think so down you know I mean like and

[00:47:30] you know what I think a huge key for the guy is and we've talked about this a little bit like

[00:47:34] just get hot out of the gate because like the the one thing that's kind of held him back is both

[00:47:39] as April's have been less than ideal in the first you know his first month of his career we know

[00:47:44] like umps were squeezing him any any you know and like the zones were expanding all that stuff but like

[00:47:49] objectively like his April's have not been great so if he could just get off to a good start and

[00:47:53] then just maintain I think that could do wonders for him instead of having to like catch up like

[00:47:57] you did the last two years you know I'm hoping for one thing from this marathon because I

[00:48:01] who will take care of itself even if he struggles early he'll figure it out he showed that even

[00:48:04] is rookie like he was saying well the one thing I really want to see and I think would be healthy

[00:48:09] for this team and I think it would be healthy for the fan base the we see reiss and Josh Rojas

[00:48:16] just holding down the fort just just be just be fringe average the first like month and a half

[00:48:24] don't crawl into a hole and dig and throw dirt over your and just

[00:48:29] and and bring attention to the Suarez deal and what the team didn't do and what now they need

[00:48:34] to go do because there's this huge hole just go up there and go you know 90 95 WRC plus right

[00:48:41] like the first six weeks and just keep the haters at bay whatever it's like well okay they haven't

[00:48:46] been good that they haven't been Suarez in year one in Seattle but neither was Suarez last year

[00:48:51] just be kind of fringe average and then have a few moments you know hit a get a big hit a couple

[00:48:58] times in the first month and a half keep that portion of the pressure off of them I think

[00:49:02] that would be really healthy for this team because I think you get into to June and July and you get

[00:49:07] away from the cold weather and and where it's a little the ball travels a little better at home

[00:49:12] and it doesn't get in your head as much and um it just just keep that away and especially at third

[00:49:19] base I mean that's really it especially I think it goes for everybody but it just seems like third

[00:49:23] base where you just don't really know what we're gonna get from those guys in comedy and have an

[00:49:27] opportunity righty lefty it's probably mostly going to be reiss and we've seen your reiss do some

[00:49:31] things so he wasn't last year but the two years prior it wasn't really six hundred played appearances

[00:49:36] worth but you know it was a pretty decent player and if he could be on a pace to be like a win

[00:49:40] and a half player uh be a fringe average to average defender and be a around average offense that's

[00:49:46] a huge win for Seattle to kind of buy them a little time to fix that position long term and next year

[00:49:51] it might just be Polanco right it might just be Cole Young at second and Paul might just be one year

[00:49:56] which is why that trade was a little weird to me beyond this you know pay the we serious five

[00:50:01] million dollars in the first year and maybe not tender him the second year at six and a half

[00:50:07] million dollars or something and you gave up Isaiah Campbell for that like that was probably the

[00:50:13] strangest deal I think they made all winter so maybe they just think uh your reiss is a bench guy

[00:50:18] because now Polanco's left-handed hitting while switch hitter but also left-handed at third base

[00:50:22] and they have a right-handed guy that could fit in at second at short and at third for a switch hit

[00:50:27] or in two lefties maybe they're thinking your reiss is that but yeah I just that's what I want to see

[00:50:33] that's the thing that that i'm thinking about the most i want your reiss to get some hits early

[00:50:38] to not turn into Colton Wong because those are some of the worst nights talking about the baseball

[00:50:43] team and colman go over three and get pinch hit four in the seventh inning like every night

[00:50:49] that he started and then he just faded really really the Tommy was still a conversation only lasted

[00:50:53] 15 minutes or that would have been another one right um I just I just think it would be important

[00:50:59] for that because I think as soon as we see the kind of the same thing happening even though it's at

[00:51:03] another position with another player it's like you know here we go again the Mariners kind of went

[00:51:08] cheap they didn't do something and they're hoping they're sitting around hoping for a young player

[00:51:13] to do something or hoping for an unproven player to do something and I think fans are so tired

[00:51:17] of that part of it even when it doesn't mean you do a payroll um that it will just like man it's

[00:51:23] just gonna turn quick and I just hate when the temperature turns like that quickly it's like here we go

[00:51:28] again they seem to be mediocre and it's just man that makes social media guys unbearable absolutely

[00:51:35] unbearable it's like they get swept in a series it's freaking May 3rd and the season is already

[00:51:41] over to them and then when they go on like a big long winning streak and then the next year comes

[00:51:45] in the same people like well you can't rely on like a like a 14 game winning streak every year

[00:51:49] and then the next year they don't rely on a 14 game winning streak and they end up basically in

[00:51:53] the same place that just gets buried but if the second basement and the third basement and back

[00:51:57] to back years toss up like a 50 WRC plus we're never gonna hear the end of it we're never gonna

[00:52:02] hear the end of it that's gonna be the thing all season you miss the playoffs by two games because

[00:52:07] cold along with your second basement for two or three months because Luis Urias was your third

[00:52:11] basement for two or three months I just for my sanity guys for my sanity I just I need Luis Urias

[00:52:18] I don't care what the batting averages I don't care what the homeruns are get a couple of big hits

[00:52:23] hold down the fort just to keep Churchill from going absolutely bananas and disappearing into the night

[00:52:29] see you mentioned you might go to the bench Jason who could he possibly replace on the bench

[00:52:34] as it's someone we might have talked about last week yeah maybe the guy with

[00:52:41] the tough discussion to have here with Lyle maybe the guy with with not really a great swing

[00:52:47] but a player I like you know I hate I it's dealing more I hate to swing hate it so much it it's

[00:52:53] paint it hurts it hurts so much it hurts it physically hurts me to watch him swing a bat but I will

[00:52:59] say this I went back and watched about I think it was like 11 or 12 of his his played appearances

[00:53:05] and probably got about eight swings two nights ago before I wrote my final cactus league thoughts

[00:53:11] at a merrors after midnight his load is a little shorter and it's creating a little more consistent

[00:53:20] path through the zone with the barrel so he might have gone from like the 728th best swing in the

[00:53:27] league to like maybe the 715th best swing in the league and I think that's something Lyle I think

[00:53:33] that's something I do I think it's a note you should write down maybe put it on a t-shirt

[00:53:38] that maybe he doesn't have the worst swing in the league anymore and I think that's progress

[00:53:42] and I think that's probably about all the progress we're going to see with Dylan more in that swing

[00:53:46] but I'm optimistic yeah you know what I put on a t-shirt so now because he's come into spring

[00:53:51] training healthy this year it didn't come into spring training healthy 23 when his season was delayed

[00:53:55] he was valuable though too like I'm not ragging on the performance at all like he was still valuable

[00:54:00] even though the bad guy was in look good it took him a little while to get going though right

[00:54:03] it did it did the strikeouts were high and can be high a lot of the time however I will say in 2022

[00:54:11] Dylan Moore put up a 126 WRC plus you know who didn't do that in 2022

[00:54:15] Ronald Acunia I'm gonna put that on a t-shirt no no contacts nothing further nothing else just

[00:54:21] that Dylan more you know put Dylan more after the carrot right Acunia carrot Dylan Moore

[00:54:28] there we go and then put his little face his cartoon face like right there

[00:54:32] come on man you gotta do it if that's your dude is that your favorite player you just fond of the player

[00:54:36] he's like he's like that Mariner that like I mean you kind of grasp on two where you just

[00:54:43] know you like the guy you grab onto you grab onto who I grasp on to yeah okay here's 2020 started

[00:54:50] to sell it for me I was like you know this guy could do a lot of things when he started to have

[00:54:54] that great stretch in 2020 and it's kind of the idea of like here's what it really is you know

[00:54:59] obviously he's not cool he always not Callie's not JP's not somebody like that he's not like one of

[00:55:03] the like premier favorite Mariners like it's not who most people are gonna latch onto but I look at a

[00:55:07] guy and say when you want a utility player when he's at his best like I don't think there's that

[00:55:14] many other guys around a league who do that type of role better than him where it's like has some

[00:55:18] pop hits lefties walks deals bases and plays every position it's like I feel like that kind of

[00:55:22] gets under appreciated so I like to appreciate it when nobody else does when he's at his best

[00:55:27] he's been worth over six wins above replacement using the fangress formula pretty good

[00:55:34] in two full seasons worth of at bats played appearances now granted some of that is defense

[00:55:41] but if you told me he was gonna be a three win player it's still an ugly swing it's still at best

[00:55:47] the 715th best swing in baseball okay he's still getting it done I'm with you the the 126 you're

[00:55:53] talking about was at 222 yeah in the shortened season it was just like 160 player appearances but

[00:55:58] he put up a buck 40 right right and then the next year he struggled and and and got it over exposed

[00:56:04] playing like 125 games or whatever but right he's been consistently like around a one one and a half

[00:56:09] two win player even in 2022 yeah he's a bench guy that's all you're asking to do I'm a fan of

[00:56:14] the player just not the swing just like like it hurts man I got close my eyes sometimes I just

[00:56:19] sometimes I'm just like I got to be prepared to see this swing especially if it's in a clutch

[00:56:22] situation whereas like they're down to run or it's tied there's a runner at third I need Dylan

[00:56:27] more to hit the ball in the air the other way and not try to pull it because when he pulls it he pops

[00:56:30] it up to the second basement like every single time 105 percent of the time at least that's what

[00:56:35] happens and I'm sitting there I'll watch it then but otherwise I will look away I will truly look

[00:56:40] away from that swing because I don't want to be bothered by it now JP Crawford swing still bothers

[00:56:45] me but he's made some adjustments and when you can make it work like what's the rule that Ben

[00:56:48] Lindbergh and his co-author made up they the only rule is it has to work right so it can be ugly

[00:56:54] it can seem weird and off kilter and be new and and people might not be able to look at it and

[00:56:58] understand it but if it works it works right and it's like Craig Council and Dylan Craig Council

[00:57:05] I've heard some very R to X-rated ways that some fellow players some of his teammates even have

[00:57:13] described Craig Councils you know putting his hand way up and has he's kind of like doing this

[00:57:20] anyway Dylan more yeah I'm a fan of the player just not the swing you're reiss yeah maybe that's

[00:57:25] a situation where you're reiss either does some of the same things Dylan Mortis they can coexist

[00:57:29] because Josh Rojas isn't going to be back next year so maybe it's you're reiss and Dylan

[00:57:33] more on the bench with some sort of combination between Luke Rayleigh and Kate Marlow and Dom Kenzone

[00:57:38] and they have a an everyday right feel there maybe that's Mitchanier maybe it's not

[00:57:44] it would be weird though if they did make that trade for one year of the wee she reiss at $5

[00:57:49] million it just seems like the plan was not only the trade for two years of Jorge Blanco but

[00:57:55] for two years of Luis Ureas at the same time right so we'll see I just yeah third base I know

[00:58:02] sores wasn't good last year but he did hit what 22 homers and fans think about that sort of thing right

[00:58:08] I just I don't want to read about on Twitter in in May or hear people on radio saying man they're

[00:58:16] third baseman they're hitting like a bucket he said with like two extra bass hits and if they're

[00:58:21] if one thing happens in in in the right direction I want it to be third base I know that's a weird

[00:58:27] thing because the upside there is not very big but just just don't cover yourself up with dirt in

[00:58:32] April that's all I'm asking don't care yourself in April save me some sanity Jason if you were to

[00:58:38] pick a mariners hitter who's gonna be the most valuable hitter not named Julio Rodriguez this year

[00:58:44] who is it the best of the most valuable I'll say most valuable I'll say the most valuable is Mitch

[00:58:51] Carver the reason I say that is because you think about the rest of the lineup you get you get

[00:58:58] because you said other than you so you got Julio but you got JP Crawford you got Luke Rayley

[00:59:03] got Cal Raleigh who's really a left-handed hitter you have Dom Kenzone who's a lefty you don't know

[00:59:08] really what you're gonna get from Mitch Haniger in terms of how many games and Luis Ureas is your

[00:59:14] other righty so having a steady right handed bat somewhere in the middle of the order of balance it out

[00:59:20] is really important I made this point several times well we don't really think about all a lot is

[00:59:26] left handers have way more success against left handers than right handers have against right handers

[00:59:32] so you don't want to stack lefties you try to avoid that it's not really so much about going back

[00:59:36] and forth in your lineup you're trying to stay away from stacking lefties you know particularly because

[00:59:41] lefties just struggle Morgan's lefties then righties got it struggling against righties and last year

[00:59:46] like you look at Suarez gone Tay Oscar gone while they didn't they weren't great and you don't

[00:59:51] really know what you're gonna get from Ty France either that's that's the other thing if he performs

[00:59:55] really well then maybe Garvers not the you know that maybe France is the most valuable but I think

[00:59:59] it's one of those two guys and I would lean on Garber because he's probably gonna hit third and fourth

[01:00:03] depending on who's on the mound to balance out that lineup from a hand in the standpoint you

[01:00:08] Mitch Garver can make manager stick with the right handed pitcher I don't think Ty France at least

[01:00:14] the first half of the season is gonna do that so I think right now it's Mitch Garver and if they

[01:00:19] want to leave the lefty in after after Hulu Rodriguez to turn Polanco around they might be making

[01:00:24] a mistake and to face Garver they might make a mistake so when you can force the hand of the other

[01:00:30] team with the guy in here lineup you could do a lot of things to that that other club and and

[01:00:35] you think about all the all the lefties in the American they can in the American they West

[01:00:42] last year especially you saw those all those lefties in the bullpen in in Texas and L.A. and

[01:00:47] and Oakland had a guy or two that that were decent and certainly Houston had a guy in their rotation

[01:00:53] in Fremble Valdez that that presented problems the lefties but having legitimate

[01:00:59] consistent right handed hitting was a problem last year I mean Svores France and Tiasca Hernandez

[01:01:05] were not consistent performers so if Garver can be anything close to what he was a year ago for

[01:01:10] 110 115 games man that's that's gonna go a long way in replacing you know Svores and Tiasca Hernandez

[01:01:18] really I mean another thing a friend of mine made the point today Thai France is gonna about like

[01:01:23] 7 to 8 he was betting third sometimes last year even while he wasn't hitting the ball that

[01:01:29] well he's still betting because it was kind of mandate kind of need him to do that because

[01:01:33] it's either gonna be Tiasca or it's gonna be Cal Raleigh or it's gonna be Tias France so

[01:01:38] sometimes it was one sometimes it was the other now France is bat like 7th to 8th now you tell me

[01:01:44] which one you think he's gonna have the best chance to have success at at least early in the year

[01:01:49] while he's working on things and trying to get his confidence back batten in the lower quarter of

[01:01:53] the order right uh and and Mitch Garvers big I think Polanco is gonna have a big year and that's not

[01:01:59] because he had a big spring because I think a lot of guys had a big spring Polanco fits in this line

[01:02:04] up really really well you could lead off Julio and bat polanco second you can lead off Crawford

[01:02:11] and bat polanco third you can bat polanco fourth the versatility there in the fact that he's pretty good

[01:02:17] from both sides of the plate um really really valuable so I just think Garver tips the scales in

[01:02:24] the direction and the way that service wants to build his lineups consistently and especially

[01:02:29] because when you think about can zone and Rayleigh um and Cal Raleigh and and JP Crawford they're

[01:02:34] gonna be in the lineup at the same time quite a bit so having that that production from both sides

[01:02:40] of the plate and having balance I mean Mitch Garvers such a huge part of that if you told me Mitch

[01:02:44] Mitch Hanover is gonna be healthy for 125 games I'd give you someone else other than Garver

[01:02:48] probably would just pick Polanco but because I don't know we're gonna get that I don't know we're

[01:02:51] gonna get for France gotta be Mitch Garver it was my favorite move of the year of the offseason because

[01:02:56] they had to get something significant with money where it didn't cost them something via trade

[01:03:02] where it didn't cost them traffic you know it didn't cost them you know Colt Emerson or something

[01:03:07] I just thought that was huge and I know it was just two years in 24 and I know Mitch Garvers

[01:03:11] not a superstar but get a guy in there that's 270 with 18 homers and an above average on base

[01:03:17] percentage and some consistency I mean that's just huge I just haven't had a whole lot of that

[01:03:22] guy puts the ball in play more than the Suarez and the Teosker types it's pretty huge for this team

[01:03:27] what are your expectations for Dom Canzone well we're going down the line up here a little bit

[01:03:32] he's kind of everybody's popular pick to just break out and figure it all out this year like are

[01:03:37] you on that train I know usually you're a little bit more like tempered with your expectations

[01:03:42] than some like I've kind of started to not kind of I have started to buy into that whole Canzone

[01:03:47] thing but where are you at so for me it really depends on how much they allow in face lefties

[01:03:52] because here's the thing you could tell me hey he's going to hit righties to like a 130 WRC plus

[01:03:57] and I'll be like I buy that absolutely buy that what I bet on it I don't know but I buy it if

[01:04:02] you told me at the end of the year you had you know 450 played appearances in 400 were against

[01:04:06] righties and he had a 130 died I totally buy how much does he hit lefties because I actually

[01:04:11] want him to hit lefties so in some ways I'd rather him end the season with like a 120 WRC plus

[01:04:15] than a 130 because that might be a sign that he faced some lefties and battled and was actually okay

[01:04:21] and gave you some some confidence that maybe he's closer to an everyday guy Seattle needs that they

[01:04:27] don't have an everyday player at third they don't have an everyday player in the left necessarily

[01:04:30] they don't have an everyday player in right necessarily first basis of kind of influx you have a

[01:04:35] short term answer a second base you need some guys that you control to be legitimate everyday answers

[01:04:41] moving forward and if they give cans only opportunity I think they should and I think they should

[01:04:45] give Rayleigh the opportunity at some point as well to hit some lefties and maybe stay in the line

[01:04:50] up a little more than then just kind of be a platoon timeshare sort of guy I think it could be

[01:04:55] huge for this club moving forward if you're telling me you're thinking about the 2025 man roster

[01:05:01] if if you can pencil in can zone basically every day 450 500 played appearances at least

[01:05:07] at D.H. or one of the corners in the outfield that's huge but if you can't because you either didn't

[01:05:11] give me the opportunity or you did any struggled well one at least you know that if you didn't

[01:05:16] give me the opportunity you still don't know the end or 2025 going oh maybe we should give him a

[01:05:19] chance now you can do that this year you could do that this year and then make some deals in July

[01:05:24] to cover for it or start playing your your guy in right field or left field against left hand

[01:05:29] of pitching right doing more yeah I'll buy Dom can zone I think there's some upside there that

[01:05:34] people are gonna like I think what the numbers look like they're gonna depend on how much he faces left

[01:05:38] easing then obviously outwelly performs against lefties same exact thing for Lou Gray but I have more

[01:05:43] confidence in Dom can zone hitting lefties well enough to stay in the lineup against them some

[01:05:49] then I do Lou Gray just the swing is easier and shorter and he doesn't open up and it looks like

[01:05:56] he sees the ball better there's more bat speed there and all that good stuff so yeah I would say

[01:06:00] can zones kind of that upside play this year that's kind of fun to watch and the power so easy to

[01:06:06] right like there's not a lot of effort in that swing considering how much power he's got so

[01:06:11] I know again some weight and and he's a better athlete than people give him credit for too

[01:06:15] he's not a slug he's not out there running like he's not Thai France on the bases you know

[01:06:19] like what's been the joke like the last couple years like he's a he's a six on MLB the show

[01:06:24] and speed or eleven or something something like Dom can zone up he's not that slow you know

[01:06:30] I'm not great defender but he's not Thai France on the basis so athleticism can help you in

[01:06:35] the batter's box too hitters will tell you that coaches will tell you that managers to tell you

[01:06:39] that gm's will tell you that it's not all about data sometimes it's the physical tools and he's got

[01:06:43] them all absolutely as a mall so I saw somebody the other day say hey if you think Dom can zone is

[01:06:50] going to like magically turn into like this two to three win player after what he's done you know

[01:06:54] the last year or two like that's on you and I'm like what do you mean like this happens sometimes

[01:07:01] it really does like especially when the idea is a lack of opportunity it's not like he's had

[01:07:06] two seasons where he had like four five hundred played appearances and didn't do anything right

[01:07:09] like he hasn't actually had the opportunity which changes the equation for me so yeah I'm looking

[01:07:14] forward to to can zone I'm looking you know I think at very least he's gonna hit a couple of moon shots

[01:07:19] right like in the night into the cold in April where nobody can feel their hands except Dom

[01:07:25] apparently and and he hits one four and forty feet and and people go crazy um yeah I think it's

[01:07:30] gonna be fun for you to watch this because he's gonna get the ball a long way so I'm gonna go

[01:07:33] forward to that who's stalker are you buying in the rotation this year Logan Gilbert's my guy I'm

[01:07:38] a Kirby guy hit a Gilbert career wise I think Kirby ends up having a better career I think he's

[01:07:43] going to be a better pitcher but right now the guy I think could take a jump is Logan Gilbert I

[01:07:48] think last year what we saw from the splitter that's the biggest thing for me that's the biggest

[01:07:53] thing in the spring I don't look at numbers in the spring I know he had a couple of outings there

[01:07:59] in a row in the last couple of weeks we gave up like four runs each or something it just didn't look

[01:08:03] great but it looks to me like he's keeping his front shoulder closed a little more which could help

[01:08:07] you know hide the ball a little bit bring a little bit of that fastball value back he's always

[01:08:11] thrown 95 plus but throwing it in the zone when the hitter can see it you know and get a good

[01:08:17] look at it they're still gonna hit it a little bit and I think that's the biggest reason why Kirby

[01:08:21] jumped them because I think right now Logan Gilbert secondary stuff is better and the progress he made

[01:08:25] with that splitter last year that could be a difference maker that's a legitimate swing and miss

[01:08:30] pitch and he proved that some last I think it's just gonna be better this year and I think I think

[01:08:35] Logan Gilbert I talked about this on my show the other day if you're looking to extend somebody

[01:08:39] you're looking to guess who the next guy to get extended is it should be Logan Gilbert just because

[01:08:43] of where he is in his career the arbitration status the first of four he's a year older is a

[01:08:48] year deeper into it than Kirby Cal Raleigh situations kind of being a catcher and being a little older

[01:08:53] that's that's really tough to commit to a catcher beyond 30 at you know 20 plus million dollars a

[01:08:59] year the easy one is Logan Gilbert but if you wait if you're the team and you wait because he won't

[01:09:05] engage or would rather wake because he's really feeling it it's just gonna cost you more money

[01:09:10] because he could throw up a five five and a half win season this year I wouldn't I think I'd be

[01:09:15] less surprised if Gilbert threw up a five and a half win season was a top three sionk finisher

[01:09:21] I'd be less surprised at that than Julio being a top three MVP guy again this year I'd be less

[01:09:27] surprised at that now you're really behind stock and I love that because that that like I mean everybody

[01:09:33] kind of looks at the rotation right now is they've got a really good starting three but I think people

[01:09:37] look at it as Castillo and Kirby and then Gilbert were like Castillo and Kirby are really good

[01:09:42] or sorry Castillo and Kirby are great Logan Gilbert's really good but you're saying like okay Logan

[01:09:47] Gilbert can get into the Castillo Kirby conversation this year like all three of those guys can finish top

[01:09:52] seven eight and say young I think for 2024 at least where I sit right now he's the guy with the

[01:09:58] most upside of those three in 2024 I think ultimately it's it's George Kirby but that doesn't necessarily

[01:10:05] mean that's this year I think Gilbert's just in a spot in his career with the development that

[01:10:09] splitter last year where I think he just takes a bigger step this year and is at least a win win

[01:10:15] and a half better than was he was pretty inconsistent last year I see I would totally understand if

[01:10:19] if it was Kirby Castillo Gilbert again this year that wouldn't surprise me because that's the

[01:10:23] order it was last year it was basically you know Kirby and Castillo were great and Gilbert was really good

[01:10:30] and that wouldn't surprise me again because he probably has the most risk of those two from a

[01:10:36] performance standpoint I just think it's going to turn a corner that we just haven't seen on a

[01:10:39] consistent basis yet I think he's going to have fewer outings where it's four and a third four runs

[01:10:44] you know three locks three strike out I think he's going to have fewer of those outings because if

[01:10:48] you go take out all three of those starters like worse five starts Gilbert probably has the better

[01:10:56] numbers because his five worst starts were bad and I think Castillo's worst five starts were

[01:11:03] probably second worst Kirby just had so few of them you know like he probably only had three or

[01:11:08] four of them and the other two had at least five where they gave up four or five runs and four

[01:11:12] I just think Gilbert's the guy ready to take the next step and Castillo is what he is

[01:11:17] but he's a guy who you guys remember this when they made that trade it was like oh the guy with

[01:11:22] the great change up and we haven't seen right really haven't seen but that's a pitch that comes

[01:11:26] and goes right like you you've talked to guys it's a fuel pitch the splitter can come and go

[01:11:30] sometimes the change up can come and go sometimes sometimes it's a bad to a bad sometimes it's

[01:11:34] ending game to game season the season what if Castillo just finds a way to feel that change up a

[01:11:40] little more changes the grip on it or something and or does something different with it and all

[01:11:45] of a sudden he's a four-pitch guy again because when he said is very very best is very most dominant

[01:11:51] I would say anyway where the strikeouts are up he's got three pitches and he could be a guy who

[01:11:57] has four above average pitches led by both of those fastballs so you can't sleep on any of them

[01:12:03] and they get all be five win guys but I just think Gilbert's the guy that's trying to take the

[01:12:06] biggest step forward is that splitter the best off speed in that rotation

[01:12:11] yeah yeah probably is yeah I think so they all have good fastballs Castillo has two good ones

[01:12:18] Kirby has two good ones yeah Gilbert's got the best secondary stuff of all three of them and

[01:12:24] I think I think everybody would agree with that even though the the two breaking balls not consistent

[01:12:29] but now that he's got this splitter in there he's got the most complete arsenal

[01:12:33] and at least as good a control as the other two Kirby's more of a command guy who can put it

[01:12:39] where he wants and that's where tons of his knowledge comes from yeah that's a good point it's

[01:12:42] probably the best off speed pitch in that rotation at least right now maybe Miller has something

[01:12:47] we haven't seen maybe his splitter develops to but Brian Wu wasn't gonna have it that was my biggest

[01:12:52] question with him coming in there is he have something that isn't 95 and moving left to right

[01:12:58] that he can show a you know a hitter and not get sheld by good lineups and I'll think we saw that in the spring

[01:13:04] we certainly need to see last year so yeah yeah we'll see that's interesting you could probably

[01:13:09] ask the same question about the bullpen who's got the best with with brash and soda out is it the

[01:13:13] moon no slider is it by far the moon no slider or the stanics or the stanics splitter coming the

[01:13:20] player step what about stanics slider yeah two yeah well so we started to dive in on some

[01:13:26] Ryan Stanic stuff and tell us what you think about this so like the stuff plus on his slider is nuts

[01:13:32] now it didn't get good results last year but the pure stuff that's good I have a take out there

[01:13:37] that I put out on a couple podcasts since they signed them and said don't be shocked people

[01:13:42] if the mariners tap into Ryan's panic slider this year and it looks really good again because like

[01:13:46] the stuff's there he just wasn't throwing it in the right spots the mariners are great at figuring

[01:13:50] that out with guys like could it be stanics slider maybe it could be absolutely and the same

[01:13:56] thing with relievers with the volatility of their overall performance and their health comes with

[01:14:01] certain pitches too there are some guys who avoid it like Matt brash with just because he's just so

[01:14:08] easy for him to spin the two break involves you just assume that it's just going to be about

[01:14:13] you know locating the pitch like he's always going to be able to get the ice spin out of in the

[01:14:17] late break but yeah stanics got like a couple of years ago it wasn't as good last year overall as

[01:14:23] he was in in 2022 but when you look at the results on his splitter you know they can't lift it

[01:14:29] they hit the ball on the ground a lot they swing and miss that at like 47% of the time last year

[01:14:34] so what if he has both pitches what if he has the 2022 slider and the 2022 2023 splitter to go with

[01:14:42] you know 98 I mean we're doesn't it sound like one of the better relievers in the American league

[01:14:49] yeah you know it's strange and I know he doesn't pound the strike zone like like some of the other

[01:14:54] matters guys have he's more he's a little more like Matt brash than he is like you know like it gave

[01:14:59] spire last year he just barely walked anybody but it's not like he's walking the world either

[01:15:05] you know in a couple of years ago I think only gave up was it two home runs all year yeah

[01:15:09] yeah it was too Houston yeah like that's that's pretty remarkable and so yeah he's got two

[01:15:15] pitches that might be that might end up being actually the best pitch in that in that in that

[01:15:19] bullpen but uh did you guys get a look at Vargas when you were down in down in Arizona no not

[01:15:25] not really yeah so if he threw 10 sliders cutter sliders every now they're they're 158 miles an hour

[01:15:34] but um are you guys in here you throw 200 miles an hour with 150 amount of our side that's what it

[01:15:39] feels like was standing stand behind the catcher um he was like 96 to 100 and it was pretty easy

[01:15:46] session and when he throws that slider it was I think he threw a couple at 89 early and then

[01:15:53] they were 92 93 94 I think he threw 95 amount of our slider I wanted to ask the catcher but he got

[01:15:59] up a ran away that's ridiculous that's why I think stack has called it a cutter last year

[01:16:05] it's thrown so hard but there was a couple of them that were clearly sliders there's depth to it

[01:16:11] there's two plane break if he can throw strikes with his fastball I mean it's on to his

[01:16:16] munoz it's the same idea with more fastball value two it's a different fastball than munoz's

[01:16:21] fastball better shape so just if they can teach him to throw strikes I'm glad they sent him down

[01:16:26] they option him down he's got stuff to work on but man you imagine that guy throwing you know

[01:16:31] even if you just walk at 9 10% of guys like brass did last year that's all you need just don't fall

[01:16:35] behind don't walk the bases loaded don't walk in runs be able to find it be able to grind through

[01:16:40] it and they teach him to do that all of a sudden you have stannic you have vargus you have maybe

[01:16:45] Santos maybe brash but even if you don't you still have three guys at the back that can get anyone

[01:16:49] out any situation uh yeah all of a sudden that deal they made with Arizona looks a little bit better

[01:16:54] if you can get something decent and of course Vargas later near I just think about a potential

[01:16:59] bullpen if that situation pans out where vargus really figures it out and you've got the five

[01:17:03] varieties with Vargus munoz brash santo's stannic you got the two lefties with spire and sauce

[01:17:09] like that's 70 or eight bullpen spots of guys who are like legitimate like either stud or very

[01:17:14] very good relievers like this could be the best bullpen we've ever seen them assemble of everything

[01:17:19] works out yeah yeah man I made the point a couple of weeks before they signed stannic they had

[01:17:24] eight point two million dollars uh invest in their bullpen Texas Rangers had 25 million and 10 million

[01:17:30] alone in david robertson the astros 60 mil guys 60 million that bullpen you know hater and a

[01:17:38] braille and press Lee and Montero they've got a ton 60 million bucks in that bullpen in 2024

[01:17:46] and here's Jerry to poneman doesn't a hundred at the time with an eight million dollar freaking payroll

[01:17:51] and I was like I'm not sure the astros bullpen's better it probably is but I'm not sure that it is

[01:17:58] and that's freaking crazy and if everybody's healthy man that two of the best bullpen's in baseball

[01:18:04] and and one of them cost you you know 12 million one of them cost just 60 absolutely freaking crazy

[01:18:09] oh good lord so we've been trying to figure out this out for this upcoming season what do you think

[01:18:15] Andre Spunoz needs to do to recapture that slider uh that's a good question because it can be a lot

[01:18:22] of things to me I always the first thing I look at is mechanics is he doing something different

[01:18:28] is he doing some different just with the slider is he finishing in a different spot is the slot

[01:18:31] management is he giving the pitch away a little bit um is he doing something to take the bite off

[01:18:36] it and I'm sure they're gonna you know those are easy things for them to look at the look at video

[01:18:40] they'll hook them up to machines you know they get the biomechanics of all of it the last came

[01:18:44] about it uh the last of their pitchers about it they'll certainly ask you know cal and Blake and

[01:18:49] Mitch and and and and all the catchers they'll ask them about it Scott service has a good eye for

[01:18:54] that sort of thing especially being a catcher um and they'll figure it out they'll look at film and

[01:19:00] and see what's different he's probably doing a lot of those on his own there were times last year

[01:19:05] maybe I don't know what it may be 15 20% of the time where it was like oh there it is there it is

[01:19:11] and he throws it like three or four times but then he just he'd lose it the next batter or

[01:19:15] the next game it wouldn't look as great um and he was still good he wasn't great but he was still

[01:19:19] good last year for me the key for munoz is to get more fastball value and I think it might be throwing

[01:19:26] that too seem a little more you know if he can come in on hitters again uh on lefties and

[01:19:32] righties with the fastball the slider is completely different and I think last year

[01:19:36] and we're seeing this around the league like the sweeping type slider um which sometimes

[01:19:42] I think sweeping doesn't necessarily really I don't know it it's a sweeping slider but

[01:19:49] I don't like the term I don't like the fact that we're separating sweeping sliders from

[01:19:53] sliders at a little more vertical where do you draw the line right anyway sliders are being

[01:19:58] chased less and they're being hit more when they're thrown in the zone every year like the last

[01:20:04] five years so it might just be can we do something a little different with the fastball to make

[01:20:09] everything else a little bit more valuable we may be going back in the other direction to where

[01:20:12] it's slider-slider slider to where it's slider fastball slider fastball slider towards more of a setup

[01:20:17] to get to the slider instead of just being able to use the slider as much hitters are picking it

[01:20:21] up hitters are getting better hitters are catching up um this is the thing that I kept saying when

[01:20:25] they kept doing everything that league was doing was helping the hitter for like the last five years

[01:20:30] all the rule changes the three-batter minimum the um uh the limiting uh of visits to the mound

[01:20:38] the baseballs you know the doctrine you know what the the the sticky stuff that you could put on

[01:20:44] the ball everything was helping the hitter and I was like if you just give this like five or ten years

[01:20:48] not saying you shouldn't do anything right now but you just give this five or ten years it's going to

[01:20:50] start turning back in the other direction and then pictures will have to catch up a little bit and

[01:20:55] you know it'll be two thousand thirty five and we'd be like man the league's got to do something

[01:20:59] they got to raise the mound or something because these hitters just have the it happens we go in

[01:21:02] cycles and it's not all just because of steroids when you look at the 90s in early 2000s hitters

[01:21:07] were just ahead of pictures you know Greg Maddox had a been Tom Glavinhead a big influence on the 90s

[01:21:13] in 2000s coming in the league in the late 80s and and and painting and that's what pitchers wanted

[01:21:17] to do and the hitters were like yeah but if you do that you're only throwing 91 I'm gonna hit 91

[01:21:22] and then all the sudden pictures are like I need to throw 95 didn't and for the next 20 years

[01:21:26] every strident throw 95 to 100 in here we are with a bunch of slight in here we are everything's

[01:21:30] power power power and we're starting to go back in the other direction where you have to put the

[01:21:34] pitch where you really want to put the pitch and the fastball has to be a bigger part but I think

[01:21:38] that's direction we're headed in so maybe that's the answer for munoz but if you've had it once

[01:21:44] you can get it again I believe in that I'm big on that so I don't know what they have to do I haven't

[01:21:50] really studied that that that that's gonna be something the team can figure out but he's still

[01:21:55] gonna be good because he didn't have it really last year consistent he was still pretty good so

[01:22:00] we'll see what happens but munoz is still your dude right you gotta get one out in any game

[01:22:06] including when brash is healthy including when Santos healthy you're going to munoz left

[01:22:10] of your right you're going to munoz right that would yeah once so does it the plate I'm not going

[01:22:15] to spire or sauce I like sauce but I'm not going on I'm going to munoz I want 100 all over I want

[01:22:22] them to think about both fastballs and I want them to think about that slider and munoz to me as the

[01:22:27] best chance to get him out so I still think it's one of the best the one the best 10 or 12 relievers in

[01:22:32] baseball even last year with the version of that pitch study out of here ago it's I'm curious though

[01:22:37] I'm curious what the team thinks about specifically like kind of holistically about Miller adding

[01:22:45] the splitter Kirby adding the splitter Gilbert adding the splitter and why that hasn't happened

[01:22:52] in the bullpen more with their younger guys why they haven't said hey Andre as you want to try

[01:22:55] a splitter maybe they have done it but we haven't seen them take that forward you know we saw brash

[01:23:00] try a cutter and it didn't stick I'm curious is the why that has happened I'm wondering if Ryan

[01:23:06] Stanic having such a good one influences some of the the pictures in the in the mirror is bullpen

[01:23:12] to maybe try that pitch at some point because if you're telling me munoz is 96 to 100 and he's got even a

[01:23:18] 55 slider that's 90 miles an hour and he's got a 50 splitter that's 90 miles an hour I quit

[01:23:25] you know I quit that's it you gotta be kidding me yeah that's what that'd be he'd be one of the

[01:23:30] five best relievers in baseball with with that profile oh yeah without question yeah 100 percent

[01:23:35] if we get a couple more for you I know as we start to wind this down this is kind of going to tie

[01:23:39] into a little bit of a prospect thing and this is what's a me kind of grab it what's that what's

[01:23:44] a prospect by the way help me out the term the baseball coin for minor players I love it dude he's

[01:23:51] I don't know yeah like I'm just I'm just going by the dictionary here Jason I like don't

[01:23:57] don't shoot the messenger we go by what older generations of taught us Jason which you are of that

[01:24:02] oh so I'm the enforcer though so I'll take that cool prospect stuff love it absolutely talk about

[01:24:09] it every day okay so I would say this is the guy that's probably most likely of all the prospects

[01:24:15] to debut this year I've we've talked about it like there is some outside chance that Cole Young

[01:24:19] could get up to Seattle at the end of September he has a great great year in the teams in it

[01:24:23] I'm gonna throw that aside for now and the guy actually think is most likely to get up

[01:24:28] if Tyler Locklear continues to just crush the baseball on the minors how do they manage that

[01:24:33] because you've got tie france at first you've got Mitch Garvers your full-time D.H and I don't think

[01:24:39] either of those or any of those three guys can really play third base so if Locklear forces

[01:24:44] the hand this year like what do they do um I don't think Locklear is capable of forcing their hand

[01:24:50] because to me to me force in the hand is like because you look at what he did in double a

[01:24:54] last try I just pulled up his numbers so I just didn't want you guys think I memorized this because

[01:24:58] this okay so in double a last year it was 22 games it was under 100 played appearances um but

[01:25:04] there was nothing special about what he did right 263 83 with a 403 slug there's nothing there

[01:25:11] that tells you wow like wow right so in ever it was a little different but that was a 22-year-old

[01:25:19] and high A that played college ball playing in a home ballpark that for a guy that has power

[01:25:24] from line to line like that 305 422 544 549 line with 12 bombers in 60 games like you should expect

[01:25:31] that so I'm not down on Locklear but I think there's a lot less chance of him kind of blowing it up

[01:25:39] like that and forcing the mayor's hand as you put it then Cole Young to be honest with you because

[01:25:44] to me I look at it this way Cole Young has to convince the Mariners that he's that as long

[01:25:51] as they're still competing and they're in the thick of it they're legitimately thick Cole Young

[01:25:55] has to beat out Luis Eurea Sinjajroa not tie France tie Locklear has to beat out tie France or Mitch

[01:26:01] Garber that's gonna be really difficult to do so the bar is a lot higher for Locklear to do that

[01:26:06] right like he's got a mash and put up numbers and hit velocity and hit the breaking ball because

[01:26:12] remember that like the mayors have had a a hit and miss record mostly miss but Julio came straight

[01:26:18] from double A was totally fine Kyle Lewis came straight from double A was totally fine everybody else

[01:26:23] they've done that with this struggle Evan white struggle Jared Cal make struggle that send him back

[01:26:27] down Cal Raleigh struggle that send him back down like it's more missed than hit Locklear doesn't

[01:26:34] strike me as Kyle Lewis or like advanced as Kyle Lewis bat speed like Kyle Lewis cover the zone

[01:26:42] like Kyle Lewis even though there's more swing and miss in Kyle Lewis and and Locklear certainly

[01:26:47] doesn't strike me as closer to being like Julio then he does to Evan white and Cal Raleigh and Jared

[01:26:53] Cal make right this there's some swing and miss in his game but it's about can I get to everything

[01:26:58] and he struggles with stuff and so he's got some questions to answer I'm not predicting a bad you

[01:27:03] I think it's just gonna be harder the the bar is really high for him and and I won't put stats on

[01:27:07] it but he's gonna have to be really consistent for a good three plus months and tie frances like

[01:27:13] one of those guys is going to have to get hurt or tie frances or Mitch garbage going to have to

[01:27:17] struggle mightily for them to make a switch like that and then what do you do with that player right

[01:27:21] I think that was kind of part of what you're asking mm-hmm I don't know what you do with that player but

[01:27:25] it's not an injury are you're not cutting tie france right and if he's hitting poorly he's gonna

[01:27:31] be really tough to trade somebody might take a shot at him you want to split the rest of the

[01:27:36] you know the contract with someone send a million or two with with you know three or four

[01:27:40] million that's left on on ties deal in june or july you might be able to get you know flyer on

[01:27:44] a double egg eye or something you might not tend to him at the end of the year anyway if he's not

[01:27:48] hitting and then call up title up but you're gonna have to be convinced that locklier is ready

[01:27:53] to hit major league pitching so when that scenario if we're building a scenario where tie france has

[01:27:58] been like basically an average hitter kind of like what he was last year and you think title locklier

[01:28:03] can be more you're gonna have to be convinced that title locklier for half a season is going to be

[01:28:07] at least that maybe more and where his floor is at least as high as tie frances too because if you

[01:28:14] get rid of tie france and locklier struggles then what do you do right if you were able to call

[01:28:19] locklier up and keep france on the roster that's a different story because then you give him some

[01:28:23] looks and if he struggles to send him back down and you go back to tie france it doesn't seem like

[01:28:27] that's a scenario that really that's a tough one that's kind of play out in my head I think Cole

[01:28:32] Young has just as good a chance maybe a better chance to get to the big leagues and to beat Tyler

[01:28:37] Locklier to the to the big leagues other than relievers those probably are the two guys though I would

[01:28:43] imagine like that's got to be the first two guys on the list I mentioned something when I wrote my

[01:28:47] prospect piece my rankings piece earlier that I still believe this I think Cole Emerson he's not

[01:28:55] going to beat those guys to the big leagues but he's going to beat Tyler Locklier to his sticking point

[01:29:02] and what I mean by that is Locklier might be one of those guys that goes up and down a couple of

[01:29:07] times you know like how Raleigh did like Jared Kellen like had to do I don't think Cole Emerson's

[01:29:12] gonna have to be that I would bet that at 2021 years old Cole Temerson sees the big leagues

[01:29:18] and doesn't have to go back I like that answer yeah I like that answer about Cole Temerson like people

[01:29:23] people are high on Cole Temerson like we just talked to Jim Calitz and he was saying similar things

[01:29:28] that's like man I like this player yeah yeah exciting yeah and you know and like he could in the year

[01:29:33] in and and hi A Everett you know and kind of being on the Cole Young track but man I don't know like

[01:29:43] I do I did get the impression they were gonna start him in Modesto but I also got the impression

[01:29:49] that two weeks ago they weren't sure which tells me they really believe and if you're telling me

[01:29:55] they they're even five percent of them is considering sending Cole Emerson who has like five minutes

[01:30:01] in the minors at 19 years old to Everett to hi A to basically start his first full pro season at

[01:30:08] a high school remarkable it is a lot of things really really well a lot of fun him and Cole Young

[01:30:14] are both fun Harry Ford isn't really that fun to watch but I think he might be the most underrated

[01:30:21] prospect in the system because even if he's a 40 catcher if you get it 260 with some on base

[01:30:27] and 15 homers what are you you're a catcher they're they're gonna deal with the the below average

[01:30:33] catching because you're a pretty good asset in the lineup and I think teams are gonna value that

[01:30:37] quite a bit I think Seattle is gonna value I think there's this thing going around how you guys

[01:30:41] feel about this that that Harry Ford is the most likely that like the top five 10 to get traded

[01:30:46] and well that's probably true I think there's a less chance of it happening than some people think

[01:30:51] there's a lot of there's a lot of conversation going on that it's it's close to a sure thing as can

[01:30:57] be and I don't think that's true I think there are questions about how long Cal Raleigh is gonna be

[01:31:02] the number one catcher I think there's at least a little bit not that you don't want them to

[01:31:06] what's it gonna take to keep him here do you want to just take him up to his free agency does he

[01:31:10] want to do that I don't want to say he maybe he gets disgruntled but if he's not gonna be happy

[01:31:15] and he doesn't want to sign long term do you trade him and get something and stick with Harry Ford

[01:31:20] and hope he can take over in a year or two behind the plate and get a you know a boatload in return

[01:31:25] for Cal Raleigh that has to be on the table at some level if you're the mayor is at this point

[01:31:30] because you that you can't know that Raleigh is gonna stay here and and and if trading him two years

[01:31:36] before for agency is better for your team now and in the future you can fill a hole you have to

[01:31:41] get Harry Ford to a point where you think he's a fringe average or better catcher though just

[01:31:45] overall hitting and get him to that point then you can make a decision on I don't think that

[01:31:49] the assessment may I don't think it's that obvious that Harry Ford's not gonna be here long term

[01:31:55] God this is fun does he get made this year oh that that's a good question I think what could change

[01:32:02] that that whole equation is a team calls and says yeah we we do think Ford's gonna be able to catch

[01:32:08] it's gonna take him another year but we do believe it and we do like the bad enough and we're

[01:32:13] gonna give you X you know value for him in a deal and here's a player that you really want that could

[01:32:18] totally change but that that's probably true to a lesser extent with everybody including Emerson

[01:32:23] and Young at the top of that system or even Celestin um Ford's the easiest for them to to trade away

[01:32:29] considering you know the team needs coming up but it really just depends on where you can get

[01:32:34] if I can get in exchange for Domcans zone and uh and uh I don't know Carlos Vargas and Harry Ford

[01:32:44] and Laz Montez if I can get four years of a 130 or better WRC plus right fielder or third basement

[01:32:51] I'm doing it you know what I mean like you're trying to win right now and hoarding prospects

[01:32:55] can't be the way um so it just really depends on what becomes available and that's something I've

[01:33:00] been digging into quite a bit the last week or two because these prospects are getting to the point

[01:33:04] where they're ripe to be traded because they're almost to that point where they're well is what

[01:33:09] is he two weeks away from the big leagues is he two months away from the big leagues and that's when

[01:33:12] teams want to balance on players so it can be really interesting see what happens this summer Jason

[01:33:17] we really appreciate your perspective on all things and appreciate all the time you give us I mean

[01:33:23] this this these are now two awesome conversations we've had leading into a season and it is just

[01:33:28] amazing you do great work and we appreciate you taking some time to join us here today always

[01:33:34] well I appreciate that um you guys do fun stuff too um anytime uh somebody asks me for recommendations

[01:33:40] I say that depends on what you're looking for but if you're looking for a mix of fun stuff and like

[01:33:44] you know people that dig into you know stuff you know I've certainly pointed a mere way too so I

[01:33:49] appreciate what you guys do as well um it's unique I think in this market what you guys do so that

[01:33:55] makes it fun and and and Valley when you guys are easy to talk to and we're starting to get to know

[01:34:00] each other so it makes it really really easy so uh I love talking baseball so um please please don't

[01:34:06] come to Mercer Island and and and and find me because we'll end up sitting somewhere for two hours

[01:34:11] and I'll never get anything done so that's the way I think about some folks and you guys are

[01:34:15] in that bucket so uh uh appreciate your guys this time yeah anytime

[01:34:22] well it's like we always say we always love talking to Jason Churchill it's been really fun

[01:34:26] to have him on the podcast now as a recurring guest it's always fun to talk to him right before

[01:34:30] the season starts and hopefully that gave you guys a lot of information on the mariners going into

[01:34:35] 2024 I think we're all excited I think we're already for the season to start and that's always a

[01:34:40] fun tune-up conversation with Jason that will just about wrap up this edition of the marine

[01:34:45] layer podcast you guys know the drill if you want to listen to the full form podcast you can do so

[01:34:49] wherever you get your audio pods make sure to download our episodes leave a five star review leave

[01:34:54] a written review too it all helps us out a ton go like comment subscribe on youtube and follow us on

[01:34:59] social media where we're on Instagram on tiktok on twitter and on youtube shorts at marine layer pod

[01:35:06] that's TJ I'm Lyle as always we thank you guys for tuning in talk to you soon

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