Episode 422: Reacting To The Most Frustrating Loss Of The Mariners Season

00:00:00 Speaker 1: What's up, guys. Just a reminder to you. We have our next Mariners watch party and live event this upcoming Sunday, that's July fifth. It'll be at two pm over at Occidental Hall, right next to the ballpark on Occidental Avenue with our friends at Corona. With our friends at the Hall, we'll be watching the Mariners game with you guys. We'll also be doing a live podcast taping after the game upstairs. So hey, if you want to come watch the game with us, come on over and do so. We'll be hanging out with all you guys. If you're at the game, then come on over and hang out. After the game, we'll be taping upstairs. There's plenty of space for you guys to sit and listen in and interact with us. They're a blast. We always love having people out to it and we cannot wait for this Sunday, so again, thanks to the Hall, thanks to our friends at Corona. Come on out to our next Mariners live event and watch party. It's this Sunday, July fifth, two pm at Occidental Hall. 00:00:48 Speaker 2: Welcome to episode number four twenty two of the Marine Layer podcast. The Mariners blow the series finale in Cleveland and lose two of three. While we have quite a bit to say. 00:00:59 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think today's podcast episode is gonna be something. 00:01:03 Speaker 2: Let's put it like that off the rails. 00:01:06 Speaker 1: Yeah, if it could be one of the hashtag those podcasts. But before that, a reminder of you guys, before this all gets going that if you're listening to these episodes, just make sure to go download and make sure to rate and review five stars. It helps a ton if you do. If you're on YouTube, go hit subscribe. Like you see the big subscribe button in front of you, right, just go click it, leave a light, drop a comment. You can find us on our website marine layerpod dot com. You can find our episodes that are all there, podcast merch is all there, Patreon is all there, one more time, that's marine layerpod dot com, and then check us out on social media. We're everywhere and we're posting content every single day at Marine Layer Pod. 00:01:43 Speaker 2: Let's get it rolling and welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network, recording here on Sunday evening, June twenty eighth. 00:02:07 Speaker 1: Lyle, Wow, what a fucking disaster. 00:02:13 Speaker 2: Wow. Honestly, all I have to say is wow. You know when you're watching a movie and you're watching like a train wreck or a cringey moment, or something happened in slow motion and you can see it the entire way. That's how I felt about the last three innings of this Mariners game today, or honestly, the last two innings of this game. Slowly but surely. You're like, huh, I mean, this feels like a disaster waiting to happen. It's like, oh, it's getting closer. Oh, oh wait, Oh there's the disaster. Oh it's here. It happened, and I don't it's as bad as you could think possibly think. 00:02:53 Speaker 1: Oh I don't even think it was two innings. I think it was one inning where you saw it slowly unfold like a train wreck. 00:03:00 Speaker 2: Well, I get I count the inning they've lost the game. 00:03:04 Speaker 1: In the ninth. Yeah, well I know they made a little rally. I'm sorry. That game was over the second the Guardians took the lead, like that was it, even when they brought it with a run, even when they brought it within a run, and JP comes up to the play with a couple of men on base, like no, like the game was over. 00:03:19 Speaker 2: Like they were the game was over on it again, like some of these some of these scripts just write themselves with these games, You're like, I don't think it could possibly be this bad, and it ends up actually being this bad. Well, and I have a lot of points to get to on this podcast on why today's game was so troubling and why we're so frustrated with this baseball team sitting here at the end of June and the Mariners are not even in first place and they're under five hundred what this team? 00:03:46 Speaker 1: Yeah, how. 00:03:48 Speaker 2: Is that possible? 00:03:51 Speaker 1: And it's not even this game alone, it's this whole weekend. There's things from the weekend we can talk about because there's a longer term thing the whole season. Well yeah, obviously the whole season, but even from this weekend. There are longer term decisions from the weekend that spilled over into Sunday. We're gonna get to all that. Let me just say two quick things first, if people want any silver lining of positivity before this episode really gets going. Number One, TJ did promise people that he was gonna watch Field of Dreams this weekend. He did that review is gonna come at the end of the show. So if you wanna wait till the end of the show to hear TJ's Field of Dreams review, he is still gonna do it, but he's just gonna do it a little later on. Second, let me take a minute to do this because again, just to try to give some people some positivity. I'll let you into the door of our own world this weekend a little bit because this was something and I figured maybe it would give people a laugh, or maybe it would shock and surprise people as much as it surprised me, because I still think it's half fake. But I'll just read it to you. So Friday afternoon, I get this DM. I didn't see it till Saturday because it was in my request folder because two of us don't follow each each other. But check out this message, you guys will see why I'm reading this in a minute. It says, what's good lyle uh been tapped in with you for a minute? I rock with how you guys keep sports talk real in the city. I think there's a real opportunity for us to link up and do some content together around the game mindset and what it really takes to play at a professional level. I would love to explore a collab and see what we can build. Who'd be the best person to talk to? Much love, nice DM. You can't really guess who that's from if you're reading it right, you know, because you already know. But if you're just a person listening to that message, nice message, nicely thought out, but you couldn't really tell that's from DeMarcus Lawrence, or supposedly it's from DeMarcus Lawrence. It's from account I half believe this thing is fake. For those of you who think I'm just getting duped, No, this is his real account. It is from Tank Lawrence, which is his Instagram handle. 00:05:58 Speaker 2: It says, up to the camera, so it's the camera. 00:06:01 Speaker 1: Okay, well I don't know if there's anything that you can reveal on camera. 00:06:04 Speaker 2: That gets oh yeah, okay, that's yeah, you know it is. It is real. 00:06:10 Speaker 1: It is real, like I you know what, like I don't want to invade anybody's privacy too much, but it is real. This guy's account has five hundred and fifty two thousand followers, which is the Law's account. And if you go and look Tank Lawrence like that's him. The only thing is I truly believe this is fake I mean, if DeMarcus Lawrence actually wants to do content with the Marine Layer pod and with us, I mean that'd be sick. I mean, maybe you guys are getting geared up for DeMarcus Lawrence contest in the or content in the coming weeks. Who knows the problem is? I have I have believed somebody like hacked into his account, because how in the hell does he know who I am? 00:06:49 Speaker 2: How does it get to the point where like someone decides to hack into, of all people, DeMarcus Lawrence's account just to DM. 00:06:57 Speaker 1: You, it's somebody who maybe is he's a Seattle sports fan and thinks, you know, it would be really funny. Let's mess with these guys. Let's make them think to Marcus Lawrence wants to do content with these guys and send them a fake message. 00:07:11 Speaker 2: I have one question for DeMarcus Lawrence. What is it? What do you think it is? 00:07:16 Speaker 1: Are you a baseball fan? 00:07:18 Speaker 2: No? No, What does DeMarcus Lawrence think of Dan Wilson? 00:07:23 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's question number one if he comes on the pod. So developing story here for anybody that may be interested. DeMarcus Lawrence maybe is interested in doing content with us. Maybe not. Uh, stay tuned. I did respond to him, for those that are asking, I sent him a nice response and said, hey, we would love to do something with you. We're always up for doing content and interviews with Seattle athletes, so let us know what you were thinking, let us know what you had in mind, and would love to set something up if this is actually real. I didn't add that last part, but I guess stay tuned if we're actually if we actually end up doing something with the Marcus Lawrence, that'd be wild. 00:08:00 Speaker 2: That would be definitely a new bar we haven't hit before. We've done like we did the one bit of content with Nick even Warri through Lids last year. But uh, like an independent collaboration with DeMarcus Lawrence would be pretty cool. 00:08:16 Speaker 1: Right, And it's not you know, he's not having somebody from his team or like yeah, no, he reached out to us, right, I promise, like, like even you guys might see our follower count online and be like, oh, people must hit you up all the time. 00:08:32 Speaker 2: NFL athletes do not hit us up. No, especially once Zan Darnold doesn't say hey, guys, I love the content, great job, love to be on one day. That doesn't that doesn't happen. 00:08:43 Speaker 1: I mean, look, we've gotten to be tied in with some athletes like our friends at the Hall No, like Queen Ane Beer Hall, Moss Bay Hall, et cetera. They know Jermaine Kurz who does stuff with them, and you know TJ and I are pretty friendly with and like are very friendly with Brian Walters, and you know, you could list off a couple others. Mark It's true font like people like that, but active NFL players that are borderline Hall of famers, like DeMarcus Lawrence, that are actively like, hey, let's do some content that does not happen. No, I can promise you like I can promise you. For example, like even in baseball, there's not just there's not just star baseball players hitting us out being like like on Instagram DM saying hey let's collabse like that doesn't really happen. 00:09:25 Speaker 2: No, that is that is something for like the marketing arms of these players to do. Yeah, not not them themselves. So that's pretty cool. I'm hoping we do figure out some way to do that. That would be that would be awesome, that would be something very new for us, but super cool as well. 00:09:38 Speaker 1: I'm also again. I also hope it's real, because I'm not totally convinced it is. We will keep you guys posted. 00:09:44 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we definite really will. Okay, we do need to talk about this game, the series, this season, and this baseball team, Lyle because Sunday was essentially the final role of a snowball reaching I mean, for now, the end of the hill, but it could keep on going. The way the Mariners game ended here on Sunday was just truly unacceptable and incredibly frustrating for us as fans to watch because it's a lot of the same issues piling up over and over and over again. I broke, I broke. How we want to talk about this episode in four different sections, so let me let me we'll go in order. I think of this. We have in game decisions, we have out of game decisions, we have the offense, and then we have the overall vibes of the team. Is there anything else I'm missing. 00:10:37 Speaker 1: That sounds about right? Sounds right? I think? I think the in game decisions have to lead it off, like you also just highlighted and specifically what happened on Sunday, Because good lord, I will say, hand up, I might have sold it short in real time for those of you who see see our stuff on social media. I gave Sunday's decision making a seven and a half on the Carpenter Meter. That may have undersold it if you are grading it on a curve. See I try to save the big time, big time fuck ups on the Carpenter meter for really big moments, and I'm trying to measure it in the sense of like, well, it's the end of June. This was horrific, but it's also the end of June. I'm trying not to blow it out of proportion to then have it feel like a ten is, oh, well, you just throw out tens all the time. No, So I give it a seven and a half in real time. In retrospect, it's probably more like an eight and a half. 00:11:33 Speaker 2: So if we're grading it on like if we're a park adjusting like WRC plus, it's higher than the initial seven and a half you gave it. When I texted you back, I said, you know, that's probably like the ceiling for the regular season, because regular season games can only mean so much in it. It is ultimately only one game, unless it's the game deciding a division for you, which this was not for the Mariners. So it's still still pretty high on a curve. 00:12:00 Speaker 1: So anyway to conclude this, if you are park adjusting, or I guess in this scenario month adjusting the Carpenter meter for month adjusted being June, that's a ten overall, that's like an eight eight and a half mm hmm. 00:12:14 Speaker 2: So the scenario as it unfolds on Sunday for those of you who weren't like completely dialed into the game and are only seeing the reaction after the fact, let us walk us through Sunday. Another rubber game the Mariners lost. By the way, here's a stat for you. The Mariners in their last six like series ending games, not technically rubber game because there's a four game series thrown in there as well, but like series finale in which they can win the series, they've now lost five of those last six of those games. Horrific, that is, that is terrible opportunity to win a game on a day game, on a getaway day, and the Mariners lost have lost five out of those six games. That's a really really bad look. That's bad. Like the game is in front of you, like you gotta get ready and you gotta go and man, the Mariners have just fallen flat so many times. The scenario that's pissing everyone off here on Sunday, let's lay it out for you. So Emerson Hancock is pitching into the sixth th inning. Oh, speaking of that, the Mariners scrapped their piggyback plan going into the weekend. 00:13:19 Speaker 1: Well, hang on, I thought that's part of the out of game decisions. 00:13:23 Speaker 2: So that is out of game decisions. I'm not going to talk about that specifically yet, but why Emerson Hancock is starting a full game is because the Mariners decided to scrap their piggyback plans for this weekend specifically, So that's why he's starting on Sunday. Instead of what it would be, it would be no Logan pitched yesterday, it would have been Kirby. I think Kirby would have pitched today. 00:13:42 Speaker 1: I thought Kirby is now pitching on Tuesday. I think he is somebody else has slated for tomorrow all of a sudden, for Monday. 00:13:47 Speaker 2: I should say, Bryce. 00:13:50 Speaker 1: I maybe now you're making me a look in real time, Monday's scheduled pitcher is now, Oh it is Kirby. Sorry, you're right, It's Kirby on Monday. 00:13:57 Speaker 2: Okay, So Emerson Hancock is starting, he is nearing one hundred pitches. He's pitching well in this game. He's not allowing a ton of runs. At this point, he'd only allowed one run into the sixth inning. He gets the first two out and then he walks. I forget who he walked, but he walked a bat her. With two outs in the sixth inning, the Mariners decide in this moment to pitch Edward Bizardo for one out. And the context of this game is that Jose Ferrera is down in this game because he pitched in the first two games of this Cleveland series, so Jose Ferrer will not throw in this games. That leads the Mariners with three leverage relievers, Edward Bizardo, gave Spire and Andres Munnez. Edward Bizardo only gets the one out in the sixth inning. He allows a double to Daniel Scheman and then he strikes out Patrick Bailey. Gave Spire comes in to throw the seventh inning against the top of the lineup, which are all lefties for Cleveland, and he gets out of He gets through that inning well. 00:14:54 Speaker 1: And can I hop in here, So just a point about Bizarro to further contextualize it. Bizardo got one out, he threw ten pitches ten and he had not thrown all series. Bizarro didn't throw Friday, he didn't throw Saturday, and then he threw ten pitches on Sunday and was yanked out of the game with Jose Ferrer knowingly being unavailable. Keep going, So if you're keeping count, the Mariners have burned through now two of their leverage arms, with only Andres Munho's remaining in two innings to go. So the Mariners decide then in the eighth inning that they're gonna throw Michael Rucker against the bottom of the Cleveland lineup, and then eventually, when Michael Rucker coughs up the game, Josh Simpson comes in and pitches against the top of the Cleveland lineup. So Rutgers Arriety, Simpson's a lefty. Both are very new to this Mariner's roster, and Andres Munoz doesn't end up seeing the game because the Mariners blow it. So where the frustration lies with everybody is that Dan Wilson put Edward put the Mariner's leverage arms into the game too. Soon, and they messed up the order of which they put relievers into the game and ended up costing the Mariners this baseball game. That's what they did, and ended up having non leverage relievers throwing an extremely important inning in the eighth inning when you only had a three run lead. Why in the world, when there's one out to get in the sixth inning, are you not using one of those lower leverage, non leverage arms to get one out and then go in some order Spire, then Bizarto, then Munyo's Why in the world can one of Michael Rucker, Nick Davila or Josh Simpson not get one final out to end the sixth Why are you using Bizarto in the sixth inning and then yanking him after ten pitches when he hasn't thrown all series. 00:16:50 Speaker 2: What doesn't make sense is that it's the same situation in both innings, exact same it's the same score, and it's the same pocket of the lineup. In that case, we can look at it on the like the simplest number version. So if Edward Bizardo is one of your three best available relievers in the game, why do you want him getting one out instead of three outs. Does that make any sense? No, that doesn't make much sense to me really either. Which of the lower bullpon arms they put in, I really don't care that much. They could have put any of them in. I think the option of getting those guys throwing those guys against to get one out against the bottom of the Cleveland lineup, which has been about as bad as yours has been this season, if not worse. Like, if those guys can't get it out against the bottom of that lineup in the sixth inning, in the lowest leverage spot of the game, then that probably tells you about their role on this Mariner's roster and how long they're gonna be on this Mariner's roster. Anyways, But the decision from the Mariners to go to Bizarto instead and curing whatever explanation Dan gave after the game that it was just Bizarto's time to go into the game in the sixth inning in the lowest leverage bullpen spot available, is like, it's just frankly bad, It's really bad, and if backfired right in their face, horrendous, Yeah, horrendous. 00:18:14 Speaker 1: How you at the bottom of the lineup up in the sixth inning, like you said, why in the world can one of those guys not just get one out? Why in the world do you want one of those guys throwing an entire inning instead of getting just one out. I mean, seriously, is this not thought about in advance? Like during the game? Are you not thinking about, Hey, would I rather have Michael Rucker or Josh Simpson get three outs in a full inning or one out right here against the bottom of the order? Like, how in the world does that decision come into place? And you know, Emerson Hancock lately has struggled third time through the lineups. You know, the sixth inning is a really big point in the game for him, and it's an area where he has really struggled recently. And you know that can that can be a very It's very likely that is the inning he's getting pulled out of this game. So if if Emerson Hancock is getting pulled out of the middle of the sixth inning, what do you do? 00:19:09 Speaker 2: Who do you go to knowing you only have three leverage relievers? And I feel like they got to the eighth inning and they're like, oh wait, yoh, we just used our two leverage arms. And oh and by the way, the explanation and why Andres Munos didn't end up coming into that game. We know Munos for the most part, is only pitched in the ninth inning for the last two seasons. The explanation given was that the ninth is just when Mooney throws. And I mean, it's getting to a point where I'm having kind of a problem with that. That that strategy of the game, like we've explained before, why the flaws of that? But I can explain a little bit more in a bit. But it like the fact that on when you have a lead in a series clinching game, there was never a thought ever of going to Andres Munyo's when there was traffic on the base pads. 00:20:03 Speaker 1: How it well, there's so many layers to this conversation. Let me ask you before we pick a side and picking out an avenue, do you want to talk more about just the eighth inning and how it unfolded. Do you want to talk about why you don't believe in the closer strategy, or do you want to talk about some of these answers Dan's giving postgame, because you've just highlighted a couple of his answers and the answers he's giving postgame like this is gonna come up again at some point in this podcast. I'm just trying to figure out where you want to go with this next? Do you want to keep just talking about the eighth inning? I'm trying to figure out where you want to go? 00:20:37 Speaker 2: Well, what else are we going to talk about with the eighth inning? They blew it? 00:20:40 Speaker 1: Okay, So do you want to I mean, do you want to get. 00:20:44 Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about Dan. Let's talk about Dan okay, because we can play his last you know, his last explanation into talking about Andre's minyos, because that's what it was. That's what the answer was about. 00:20:56 Speaker 1: I mean, dude, this is not the first time we've said this, and it's probably not going to be the last time. The answers he gives to the media day in and day out are horrendous. There are twenty nine managers in Major League Baseball who provide transparency to their media and don't throw their players under the bus and air out team secrets. I don't know what in the world you call Dan Wilson's media sessions on the daily, but they're not informative, they're not transparent. I mean it honestly, is a slap in the face to everybody when he gives these sessions, because it's a slap in the face to the reporters who are just trying to work endlessly to report about the team and tell all the stories. And even more than that, it's a slap in the face to all your fans and all your paying customers. Most fans are just people who work nine to five jobs and the Mariners are their hobby, and they're passionate about the team, and they spend time watching them. And when they invest time into this team and watching them and they're a fan, they want to have transparency. They want to know what's going on. And when your answer is it inspires time in the seventh mooneys are ninth in and gun it was also time for Bizardo. Dude, that's not transparency. That's not transparency at all. It is a slap in the face to everybody that's listening to them these ants, like, the next time Dan Wilson gives a transparent answer to the media will also be the first time ever because he's never given one. And what happens when you don't explain your process of how you manage a baseball game, and then there are these horrific in game decisions that end up costing you ballgames. It leaves people to just make assumptions and ask a lot of questions, Am I wrong? 00:22:43 Speaker 2: Nope, you are not wrong at all. And the problem with those answers, besides the lack of transparency, is if that is the strategy, then it's an incredibly flawed strategy. You can never approach a baseball game with a blanket strategy. Do you know how this scenario was familiar lyle of the eighth inning? This was Game seven of the Alcs. That's what this was like. It was the same idea of the blind need to go to Edward Bizardo as your pivot guy, no matter the scenario of the game. That's it, blankly, that is what happened in this game, where like on like automatically, when someone is getting pulled out of the middle of a inning after the fifth, it's always Edward Bizarto's time, no matter what, no matter the context of the game, no matter the stakes, whether who's at the plate or like like if it's the postseason or how many players are available, like, no matter what, it is, always Edward Bizarto's time, and that just leaves you open clearly to so many things that could possibly happen. Just like this game where the Mariners like hit the button automatically and then all of a sudden you get to the eighth inning and you're like, oh, well, I guess it's Michael Rutgers time, he's available. He can get three outs. Like It's that like the automatic nature of the bullpen strategy. It seems like it's just so flawed and it doesn't. It doesn't there's not much process in context behind it that as we can see it playing out, you just you can predict that something's gonna happen, like something's gonna happen. 00:24:29 Speaker 1: You can't say it enough times, And because you bring it up, I'm gonna say it again. Dan Wilson lost the Seattle Mariners their first trip to the World Series back in October. That was on him. He lost it, And however much it gets talked about, it's still not enough. I honestly don't think it's been talked about enough. Jason Churchill said the exact same thing to us when he was on the podcast with us back in March. However much that decision is talked about amongst fans. It's never enough because that was maybe the most catastrophic moment in franchise history. Now from a player, this wasn't Bill Buckner messing up a play. This was from the dugout and making a decision that made no sense in the world, and it lost them a trip to the World Series. It was an absolute abomination of a decision. Then it's still is now and he just never seems to learn from these mistakes because they continuously just pop up over and over and over and over. Don't make me do the marsh On clip and over and over again. 00:25:33 Speaker 2: Yes, and it seems that this kind of managerial strategy is something I saw someone write this length. It's it's how people used to manage in the nineties. This is how managers would manage in the nineties, no matter what. This guy's pitching the seventh, this guy's pitch in the eighth, and this guy's pitching the ninth, and that flaw. If you ever needed an example of why that that thought process does not work, today was your answer. Because let's get to the end of this where he says, yeah, I mean Moody wasn't an option for you because he's our ninth th inny guy, it wasn't, Oh, we want Andre's Munos to face the top of the lineup in the ninth inning because we think that's a better matchup for us, where you're matching up player versus player. What actually happens on the field, No, you're saying, no, Andre's Munoz just needs to get the last three outs of the game, no matter what. Because wile the top of the lineup came up in the eighth inning, did Andres Munos come in the game like you scheduled two in the ninth against the top of the lineup? 00:26:33 Speaker 1: Oh? No, that was Michael Rucker and Josh Simpson. 00:26:36 Speaker 2: Was Yeah, it was Josh Shimpson who came in to face the lefties and said, So it's like, oh wait, so you weren't saving Mooney for the top of the lineup. You're just saving him for the ninth inning. Where's the urgent? Like you have to win the eighth inning as well? I don't get that. How does that make sense? I can't, Like, I have a really hard time believing if I were to go ask the Mariners front office, Hey, like, what like is Andre's is Andre's Munoz going to face the top of the lineup or is the only pitching in the ninth inning. What's what's your ideal strategy? I would have to think they would say, yeah, we want him facing the top of the lineup. I would think, right. 00:27:18 Speaker 1: This is why, as you've highlighted, and we both highlighted on multiple episodes, why the idea of traditional closers is outdated and doesn't work the way it used to. It doesn't make any sense when you really think about it. Why in the world would you not want your best reliever facing their best hitters at the most pivotal point in the game. Why would you rather hypothetically have a closer just pitch the ninth inning and face the six, seven, and eight hitters. That doesn't make any sense. 00:27:45 Speaker 2: If the Mariners are going to pitch a man down in this bullpen, I don't think Andre's Munoz can continue to only pitch the ninth inning. 00:27:53 Speaker 1: No, absolutely not No, And maybe that into the next topic of this conversation unless there's this s we still need to get to. 00:28:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, we do need to get to some of the out of game decisions which really hurt the Mariners here today. But before that, wanted to tell you guys about Emerald Queen Casino's summer lineup of shows. If you want to head down to Tacoma and go see War on July seventeenth, you could see Brantley Gilbert on August twenty second, and Pete Davidson on August twenty eighth. You can get your tickets at Emerald Queen dot com. Emerald Queen Casino is the entertainment capital of the Northwest, and while you're down there, you can take your night to the next level at Sla Hall Steakhouse. Rooftop Dining at Emerald Queen Casino gives you mountain to sound views paired with premium steaks and creative cocktails. You'll just have to see it to believe it. Come by Friday and Sunday from four to ten pm and Saturday from four to eleven pm. Get your reservation today on open table or by calling two five three four four one thirty one oh one. That's two five three four four one thirty one oh one. Almost as big as the in game decisions were today, I thought the out of game decisions were as well. It's getting to the point where I don't really think the Mariners have a concrete plan of what they are doing with their rotation and what they want to do with this, because the Mariners have been running with six starting pitchers for quite a while. Now, they have gone to a piggyback, they've gone to a six man rotation. They've gone back to a piggyback, and now less than a week later, they are back to a six man rotation essentially just because I mean, we've got two different answers on Friday after the game of them not piggybacking Logan Gilbert and Emerson Hancock. And why is that so important, lyle Because they're pitching a man down in their bullpen, That's why. And it leaves the Mariners in a really tricky situation here on Sunday, and it. 00:29:50 Speaker 1: Ended up helping cost them the game on Sunday, which, let me say this, in the most pivotal season maybe in Mariner's history, with expectations as high there's ever been in Mariner's history, seems like a potential problem, right when you have a front office and a manager who don't seem to have a concrete idea on game plans on the regular. Yeah, yes, I mean, because I will say, just like on one more Dan Wilson note back to the fact that he doesn't give any sort of answers to the media, and then he also has all these in game decisions that blow up in their face all the time. Again, like, it does leave you to ask questions, right, like in the sense of like does he know his matchups day in and day out? Does he have some sort of process at all behind these decisions? Maybe biggest of all, like does he put in the necessary work to be an effective big league manager? Again, I think it's fair to ask these questions because we don't know. You see the bad decisions happen, and then he has no answers for them. I don't see how it's unfair to ask these questions, like is the necessary effort being put in by Dan Wilson on the regular to be an effective big league manager. I don't have a concrete yes to that. I don't have a concrete note of that. That's why I'm asking the question. And that's on the manager side. To get back to the front office side again, with not having a concrete plan, the constant hurky jerky decision by decision change after change with this rotation is mind boggling. 00:31:20 Speaker 2: They told us they didn't like the six man rotation when they went to it because they were tiring out their bullpen too much. So they decide, hey, we can't keep doing this, we need to go back to a six man rotation. They do our so we need to go back to a piggyback. They get all the starting pitchers to agree to it. Whether they liked it, asked Bryce Miller, that was to be determined. They do one piggyback, and then all of a sudden, the next piggyback approaches, and the night before the Mariners say, oh, actually, we're going to decide not to do this piggyback anymore. And why is that important? So you're essentially in the middle of your piggyback strategy, you decide to switch right in the middle, and you're back to a six man rotation where you're now pitching a man down in your bullpen in this scenario. Why this matters so much is that, up until Friday night, we thought the Mariner's bullpen was gonna get a full day off on Saturday, in which wow, I don't even think we'd be having many of these discussions on tonight. You know why, because all your leverage arms would be rested and available, and Dan would have had four leverage arms and four slots and they would have gotten out of it and we would not be sitting here and complaining about it. But the Mariners decided forty eight hours before we're taping this podcast to stop piggybacking the rotation for some reason for Dan Wilson. The reason Dan Wilson gave was because they wanted to give their starters more rest and then Adam Jude tweeted out that he said it was because the Mariners. The Mariners didn't want to disrupt the flow of Logan Gilbert, which again wouldn't really make sense given that Bryce Miller was throwing better than Logan Gilbert and they've made Bryce's piggyback every single time. 00:33:09 Speaker 1: So let's stop right there for a second, because that deserves a couple minutes of attention. Again, with the lack of concrete plans from the dugout in the front office, now you have mixed messages coming from the dug it dugout in the front office. I mean, look, I'm assuming what Jude is reporting. I can't know for sure, but I'm assuming it is somebody from the front office saying that, because it's clearly not what Dan said. Davis reported what Dan said. Dan said. His reasoning, so he claims for the reason for scrapping the piggyback, was, oh, we want to get some guys some extra rests, which is a weird decision to make it with forty eight hours to go or twenty four hours to go, but which. 00:33:49 Speaker 2: Also doesn't make that much sense because the Mariners could map all of this out in advance again and the starters agree to it. 00:33:57 Speaker 1: They did map all this out. They did. That's what they said, like a week ago when they set out this new plan. 00:34:03 Speaker 2: They mapped every start, every start out into the All Star Game, and every all six starting pitchers sat in a room and they agreed to it. And then now all of a sudden they need more rest. 00:34:14 Speaker 1: Right, and again all six guys said, okay, we will each pitch in one piggyback. There'll be three piggyback games until the All Star break. All six guys take a turn with forty eight or with like twenty four hours to go, it comes out or it comes out really the morning of I guess it was talked about the night before, but it was reported the morning of. Oh yeah, like today's Peggy back scrapped. Now Logan Gilbert's just starting. So again, what Dan's reporting was was, oh, guys need extra rest. Jude is reporting that, well, the rhythm of Logan Gilbert shouldn't be disrupted, so we're gonna scrap this. I don't know definitively where Jude's getting that, But who else is making decisions with roster management? That's not the dugout the front office. I'm assuming it's from the front off, like I think, if we're just making an educated guess. So if that's the case, why is there two separate messages. Why is the front office saying well, this is for Logan Gilberts rhythm, and then Dan Wilson saying, well, guys just need rest. 00:35:13 Speaker 2: But neither lines up no what they've done, which is even more confusing. I don't even I don't know which one of those two messages are right. I think you can make a case, but neither one of them make a whole lot of sense, and they don't back up what the Mariners have done last week with Bryce and Luis. 00:35:31 Speaker 1: Which, by the way, I said this on Saturday on social media for those of you that follow us on social media. But when Logan Gilbert's piggyback start got scrapped, originally we said, look great, we don't want to see these piggybacks. Logan Gilbert's gonna get a chance to go six or seven innings. I mean, that's what we wanted them, That's what we wanted out of them in the first place, especially the way he's pitching recently. But then we also said, why the hell is Bryce Miller not getting the same treatment? Bryce has been your best start? Like, why is Bryce had to pitch in three piggybacks and all of a sudden, Logan's had to pitch in zero? And oh, by the way, are they now gonna make Bryce pitching some fourth piggyback before the All Star break? Because if they do, I can bet you Bryce Miller is gonna be no happy camper. 00:36:16 Speaker 2: No, I don't think he's gonna be happy at all. And then the thing we didn't realize until it happened today is that since since they did not piggyback on Saturday and Logan Gilbert just made a regular start, what had happened Low Mariner's bullpen had a throw and Logan threw I think longer than he normally would, but he still made it through seven complete innings. But the Mariner still had to pitch the eighth inning. And guess who pitched the eighth inning. Jose Ferrer. Yeah, Jose Ferrere pitched for the second consecutive day, which made him unavailable on Sunday, which then put the Mariners in a situation where they only had three leverage arms and four slots to throw in on Sunday. See the problem. 00:37:00 Speaker 1: Used Jose Ferrera on Saturday. He's not pitching three games in a row. He didn't pitch Sunday. And because you scraped the piggyback, you had to have Michael Rucker and Josh Simpson throw in the eighth inning. Well throw at some point. Again, one of them just should have gotten out in the sixth, but regardless, they were factored into Sunday's equation. If the piggyback happens on Saturday. You said this on social media. On Sunday, I tweeted it out, and it's true. You can feel however you want about the piggyback, love it, hate it. We obviously can't stand it. But regardless, the plan, as everybody was expecting going into Saturday, was the Mariners bullpen would have a day off. Then they didn't get a day off. You couldn't use Ferrer Sunday, and as a result, you lose the game because you're down a leverage arm and you still continue to pitch a man short in your bullpen because you have six active starting pitchers on the roster. 00:37:50 Speaker 2: Also, let me ask this, why was Emerson Hancock not left in the game longer on Sunday if you're pitching an arm down in your bullpen, because I thought they left Logan Gilbert out there longer than they normally do on Saturday to try and cover for that. When you're pitching a man down in your bullpen, you do need to ask a little bit more of your starters, innings limit or not this is the decision you've made. Or it's like Emerson, we know you've not thrown a ton of major league ginnings, You've never had a massive workload at the MLB level. But we're pitching a man down in this bullpen. We're gonna need an extra ten to fifteen pitches from you today because we got to We need to cover these outs that last bullpen arm would cover with our starting pitchers. But the Mariners on Sunday decided to be extra aggressive and took him out of the game when they normally would as opposed to leaving him in there longer like they did with Logan Gilbert on Saturday. It's just it's mixed, and it leaves the Mariner's pitching staff in a really, really tough position, and as bad as the decision making was, it also leaves the Mariner's coaching staff, Dan Wilson in a really tough position as well. 00:39:03 Speaker 1: It does again if you want his answer on why Hancock didn't stay in the game, I mean he was asked postgame and this is through Daniel Kramer's article on MLB dot com if you want to check out the full thing. But here's what Dan Wilson said. We talked about it, but where he was in his pitch count and just where we were in the batting order, it just felt like that was the place to get Bizarro and get him in the game. AKA nothing, It's time for Yeah. It's literally the meme. It's time for Edward Bizaro to pitch. That's that's his answer. Yeah, that's the answer of a big league manager. Like, that's not an answer, it's it's not an answer. 00:39:43 Speaker 2: I'm hoping when I believe Justin Hollander will talk tomorrow when the when the Mariners get back to town, that we get some sort of explanation on why the piggyback was abandoned so quickly. I got a wonder, did Bryce after he got again, uh say something like not publicly, I'm saying behind closed doors to his manager or to a member of the front office, because in his press conference he still sounded, you know, pretty ticked off. I gotta wonder, because that's the only thing that's happened since that would cause them to change their mind on a piggyback. 00:40:22 Speaker 1: But you're gonna go back to a six man rotation again? 00:40:26 Speaker 2: Oh no, no, well, I mean yeah, I mean technically yeah, I mean technically yes. Actually, right now it's slayed. 00:40:33 Speaker 1: It out to be a six man rotation, and we've highlighted the problems with that. The Mariners literally said they didn't end up liking the six man rotation. So what is the plan here? Man? 00:40:43 Speaker 2: It's a great question. You know, who would have been great in the eighth inning today? 00:40:48 Speaker 1: Brandon Garcia, our guy Louis CASTI you, oh, well him too. I just I just miss having Beg on the roster. But anyway, yes, Louise as a bullpen arm would have been awesome. The problem l problems alts. There's no problems today if if they just made that decision. But oh no, they won't do that. For god, that was whatever reason, and to be I guess to be fair, Luis did have a pretty decent start this weekend, but it doesn't change the fact you have six starters and what should be five rotation spots, and he makes the most sense to be in the bullpen. 00:41:22 Speaker 2: The Maritters are creating an unnecessary headache for themselves. I didn't I think this headache would make a little bit more sense if Kate Anderson was not in the miners. But the problem, the thing is Kate Anderson is in the miners right now. We don't just get to ignore that Kate Anderson is a big league starter in Double A right now. 00:41:43 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. 00:41:44 Speaker 2: So you can afford to make decisions that make your life significantly easier, and I think the front office made a decision that made their lives significantly harder by yanking this around again and causing that the issues that we've seen this weekend. 00:41:59 Speaker 1: They've created a very complex plan with a manager who does not do well with in game decisions. By the way, if Scott's Service was still managing this team and you had to deploy all of these different moving pieces, he was more of a manager that was equipped to handle that. Because Scott was pretty good with the in game stuff. You might not have always liked his decisions, but there was usually a pretty sound process behind it. Scott's Service, by the way, was not tied to the idea of a closer pitching In the ninth inning, Munnos threw in all different spots. With Service, he would face the best arms. Scott's Service would have been much more equipped to handle something like this. When you have a bunch of moving pieces with a blueprint and a manager who constantly has in game decisions blow up in his face, it causes a lot of problems, and you're seeing it cause a lot of problems right now, And I don't see how all of these problems are worth it. When you are one game under five hundred in an aos that's as bad as ever, and now out of first place in a season where expectations have never been higher. At the end of June, we. 00:42:59 Speaker 2: Have a couple more points to hit on from just an incredible weekend of Mariner's Baseball, I mean, truly peak Mariner's Baseball. Well before we get to those, let's pause here for a nad. Let us tell you guys about Cozy Earth. Cozy Earth's mission is to make home the best part of your life. They send us their bamboo sheet set. 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And if you see a post purchase survey mentioned that, you heard about Cozy Earth right here. How about the offense, lyle, let me read you a fun fact. No American League team has had a streak of thirteen games or longer scoring three or less runs since nineteen seventy two until the Seattle Mariners did it. 00:44:30 Speaker 1: Incredible? Can I one up you? 00:44:33 Speaker 2: Sure? 00:44:34 Speaker 1: And I know, guys, I know this has been a lot of negativity in the episode, but we go with the flow of the team as the season goes. Like the vibes are bad right now, they are just bad. And it was a horrific weekend. So this is what we're talking about. It's been a horrific last couple of weeks. Because I'm gonna one up you with this. In this fourteen game stretch where they finally scored four runs today, here's where they rank in the league in that time. Run scored thirtieth, OPS thirtieth. They have a five point fifty one team OPS in the last fourteen games, slugging percentage thirtieth. They have a two to seventy nine slugging percentage isolated power thirtieth. Their ISO is oh ninety one, it's below one hundred. Their batting average is thirtieth in that stretch one to eighty eight and hits their tide for last. And check this out with a roster that is built to hit home runs and score with the long ball. In their last fourteen games, they rank dead last in Major League Baseball in home runs with nine. The Seattle Mariners have hit nine home runs in their last fourteen games. That ranks last. 00:45:43 Speaker 2: Oh and today, where they scored their four runs, they stranded fourteen base runners. Yeah, which makes sense because they're the one of the worst teams in all of baseball with runners in scoring position. 00:45:56 Speaker 1: Dude, I mean, how. 00:45:58 Speaker 2: Was this lineup this bad? 00:46:00 Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense. And it's not just this fourteen game stretch. They're twenty fourth in the league and runs scored right now, that's all season. How are there only six teams scoring less runs than a lineup that has Cal and Julio and Naylor and Randy and two star prospects up the middle, and you know, yeah, like, how oh, in can Zone, who's been awesome this year? How is this lineup twenty fourth and run scored? 00:46:32 Speaker 2: Injuries, a bad season from Cal, and a whole bunch of I have no idea, dude, I'm literally lay it out like this. You have an MVP runner up behind the plate. You have guys who are making big money and will make big money in center, left and first base. You have a former All Star and Brendan Donovan at third base who's hurt, and an above average bat at third base in JP Crawford. They're currently You have a top forty prospect at second base, a top five if I prospected shortstop, and a top ten hitter in baseball over the last calendar year at DH. How is that twenty fourth in run scored? 00:47:08 Speaker 1: That DH that you're mentioning is Ken Kenzone? In the last year? Canzone has been awesome? 00:47:13 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's been great. It doesn't make much sense, and it's not like the Mariners built this lineup to do one specific thing, and there are other fatal flaws showing they're just not doing enough of anything. No on base slug especially. You're seeing what a lack of slug does to this lineup for everyone calling for small ball. When you don't slug, you see how much harder it is to score runs. Look at the Cleveland Guardians. The Cleveland Guardians do not slug. They haven't slugged in forever consistently as a team. That is a lineup that never scores runs. They're worse than the Mariners are. They're frustrated watching the Mariners. The Guardians are worse than the Mariners are in pretty much every offensive category, especially the power department. But the Mariners, like they built their lineup to hit for power. It's not hitting for a bunch of power. They have on base guys they're getting on base, but they can't get these guys in And that's on top of the base running woes and the fact that there's the second slowest team in Major League Baseball. So when you line it up that way, yeah, you gotta hit for power. And if you don't hit for power, then you're kind of fucked. 00:48:29 Speaker 1: So we didn't even mention this at the start of the episode. I know we said today was gonna be an episode that was filled with trade deadline targets. I think we're gonna do that on Wednesday now because there's just too much to talk about here on this Monday show. But again, we said it Friday. I'm sure we'll say it Wednesday. The fix is not coming from outside the organization. You can go get a couple of bats to help this lineup. The fix. It's either gonna be internal or they're gonna miss the playoffs. This year. 00:48:57 Speaker 2: They make the playoffs for the dog shit offense. 00:49:00 Speaker 1: I mean, they have got to turn this around, Like, like, who's gonna ignite it? Man, somebody's got to. It's probably gonna have to be Cal or Houley. One of them's gotta get scorched earth hot. 00:49:12 Speaker 2: And they even tried shaking up the lineup this week and Cal Rowley was hitting seventh. Yeah, and even still, I mean it, even with Cal hitting second or seventh, he is gonna have to get hot. You're totally right, But I like, just listing out that lineup, it just is not clicking in my brain how this offense is just not good enough. I feel like when you look at it on paper. At the beginning of the season, this lineup is good enough, but it's they're just not scoring enough runs. And I know some people can go out there and they can look at the team WRC plus and say, okay, guys, I mean it's not really as bad as we thought. I mean they're about middle of the pack. No no, no, no no no. If if some of you want to use that to make yourself feel better about the Mariners offense, I'm not gonna tell you not to. I would just advise it's a flo odd way to look at how the Mariners are gonna score runs as an offense because simply put again, they do not score weighted runs as an offense. They score actual runs. Actual runs are the ones that count in the games. So unfortunately, even if the Mariners adjusted offense is middle of the pack, the eye test we're seeing in the runs scored are not middle of the pack. Their bottom third, if not worse. 00:50:23 Speaker 1: And again, we've had Foolish Baseball on the podcast and talked about this exact topic with him last year maybe two years ago. And when we talked about it with him, he said it and he's right, he said, you don't actually have to hit that well in T Mobile Park to have a good team WRC plus because the Mariners play in an awful run scoring environment. So their team WRC plus is gonna be elevated simply just from playing in a bad ballpark. The way you measure team offense is by actual runs. You're right, teage, not weighted runs. Actual runs, and by actual runs they are twenty fourth. 00:51:02 Speaker 2: It sucks the Mariners play in that ballpark, but you just have you have to get around it. But the Mariners have played half their games on the road during this stretch. Yeah, not just home games, right, not just oh it's really cold at T Mobile Park, it's hard to score run. No, it's almost July. It was hot in Seattle when they played last week. 00:51:20 Speaker 1: Yeah, and again you're on the road alf the time. Man, it is brutal, it really is. 00:51:27 Speaker 2: And the fact this is the third thing we're talking about today just really tells you where the Mariners are at. 00:51:32 Speaker 1: Yeah. Really, the final thing would be unless you've got other stuff you want to highlight with the offense. 00:51:38 Speaker 2: No, just now we're at the big picture of where the Mariners are at in this season. The Mariners are now a game under five hundred. On June twenty eighth, Yeah, the team with the second best odds to win the World Series in all of Major League Baseball has a record under five hundred on June twenty eighth, and they don't look like they don't look like a team I'm very confident to go way over five hundred. No, let alone compete for a World Series. That right there is an issue. 00:52:07 Speaker 1: It's a huge issue. They just got passed up by the Rangers. The Rangers aren't some juggernaut. 00:52:14 Speaker 2: Well, they're not that far away from the Astros or the A's either. Finishing behind any one of these teams in the American League West is a failure. You have a way more talented roster than all of these teams, even with the injuries. It's not close. This is just a team that's underperforming m and they got to find a way to get back up to their talent level because this team is way too talented to be a game below five hundred at the end of June. You can't blame the injuries anymore. Your team is pretty much healthy besides Brendan Donovan and Matt Brash. You just got to find a way to get back above five hundred. Yeah, you haven't had a catastrophic pitching injury all year, which is usually how these things get derailed. Nope, everyone's been pretty healthy. It's just that this team's not playing well enough and in a historically bad American league, in a historically bag at American League West, You not being right behind the Yankees is it's an issue. It's really bad. 00:53:13 Speaker 1: Huge And look, we know there are guys playing banged up, even if they're not on the IL. Naylor, Julio cow got back off the IL, JP got back off the IL. We know Colt Emerson's you know, had some you know, had some minor things already injury wise. Randy. Oh, dude, by the way, we didn't even we didn't even talk about we're fifty Like three something minutes into the podcast, we didn't even talk about Randy straight up walking after that ball. 00:53:37 Speaker 2: Oh my god, double the. 00:53:39 Speaker 1: Left field, dude, what are you doing? What are you doing? You're walking after the ball? 00:53:46 Speaker 2: What was worse that? Or the fact that Garver dropped the ball at home plate. 00:53:51 Speaker 1: Randy, Because look, the drop ball at home plate isn't good, but it's not like Garver did that on purpose. Randy straight up just was like, oh, that ball's going foul. I'm not going after it. Oh whoops, it's fair. 00:54:03 Speaker 2: And if Randy gets to that ball a little sooner, perhaps the runner doesn't get waved home. 00:54:08 Speaker 1: Yeah. And then with the ninth inning then it's tied up. 00:54:12 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:54:14 Speaker 1: Oh boy. The vibes of the team. Really the whole year something has felt off. It's just felt off. It doesn't feel the same as it's felt in years past. Maybe this is the way of expectations getting to them. Something feels different and. 00:54:28 Speaker 2: It doesn't feel good, and it kind of bleeds to the feeling of them not turning this around. I saw stuff online today where people said, this is the first time I feel like this team's not going to turn around. That this team might not actually be as good as we thought they would be m h. And that's a really tough reality to accept because as meritors fans, we've had our hearts broken and expectations let down pretty much every single season since they came to existence in nineteen seventies. And this year was supposed to be different. You had the postseason appearance last year, you had a reigning Ale MVP runner up catcher, You had the best young pitching staff in Major League baseball. Your player development is something every team dreams on, and yet they're under five hundred. Brutal. How brutal? I mean, you know, one of the most crazy stats I've seen The Mariners are four and fifteen in their last nineteen weekend games. Does that even sound real? 00:55:38 Speaker 1: No, not for a team that's supposed to be this good. 00:55:41 Speaker 2: Four and fifteen, Like that's that stat sounds made up, but it's very real. 00:55:50 Speaker 1: I think of out Awards at this point just brutal, all of it. Brutal all around, you highlighted in your tweet today, Just bad all around. Bad offense, bad decision making, bad long term process, all of it. 00:56:03 Speaker 2: Thank goodness the All Star breaks coming up. I'm fascinated to see what this next month is gonna look like. Just imagine what four more weeks of this looks like. If there's four more weeks of this, what do the Mariners do with the deadline? I don't know. 00:56:17 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, is there gonna be any sort of action days here this week next week? Like are they gonna take action on something or are they gonna just let this thing play out? 00:56:28 Speaker 2: Based on how they've operated, probably just let it play out. 00:56:33 Speaker 1: I mean, there ended up being so many other ridiculous storylines over the weekend that everybody's essentially forgotten that Rob Repstter had another awful game on Friday. Oh god, again, it's so buried that everybody know Repsneider got just worked by another left handed pitcher again on Friday. 00:56:52 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so. Stacy Ross from seven to ten quote tweeted my tweet. She left her reply underneath her quot tweet of me, saying everything's bad, and her thought on this was, no matter what, you got to just buy. There's no reason not to at this point with the league being this bad, would the front office mortgage like serious prospects in their farm system to improve a team that's just not good enough? 00:57:22 Speaker 1: I don't think they'd mortgage prospects unless they think They've never done that really outside of last year. 00:57:28 Speaker 2: But they didn't even have to give up that besides our guy BG, they didn't have to give up that much. But if they were gonna trade the capital required to get the best players on this market, would they do that for a team that's not really it through three months? 00:57:43 Speaker 1: Dude? I don't know if anybody on this market is going to cost you any of your premier prospects because it's a bad market outside of Scooble. And I guess if Buxton waves as no trade clause, but all indications seemed to be he's not gonna do that. I don't think there's players worth giving up premier prospects for. This is the other problem, guys. We're gonna highlight it on Wednesday. We promise now that all this is basically out of the way. Wednesday's episode is gonna be a trade deadline episode and players the Mariners could target. It's bad deadline. Man. There's not a Josh Naylor out there. There's just not No. It's not an enticing market for offense. It's an okay market, I guess for relievers. The one guy that's gonna overarch this entire deadline is Trek Scouoball. Which is why for all you that say, WHOA, we need bats, we need bats and bullpen arms. Yeah they do, and they should go do those things. But to raise the floor of your team, there's only one guy at this deadline externally that can really do that, and it's the guy that's one of the six to seven best players in Major League Baseball, even if he plays a position where you already have a lot of depth, that's what would raise the floor. 00:58:49 Speaker 2: Do you see Wilson Controllers almost got into another fight this weekend. 00:58:52 Speaker 1: Yeah, something tells me the Mariners are not going to be trading for him. 00:58:56 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think so. Well, if they need a firelit under them, I think he could do that. 00:59:02 Speaker 1: What do we think four fights in two months? 00:59:05 Speaker 2: Maybe not four? It only took one for the twenty twenty two Mariners to win fourteen in a row. 00:59:11 Speaker 1: Well, maybe they Maybe they'd if Wilson Contreras heaven't for big got hurt after the Mariners traded for him. Maybe they just let him go fight in triple A like the rest of the Rayniers team did this week. 00:59:22 Speaker 2: Maybe the Mariners just need to call up Patrick Wisdom again. 00:59:25 Speaker 1: Well, dude, you see hit three homers in a game. 00:59:28 Speaker 2: Well, wasn't that was the game? Right after the fight? 00:59:32 Speaker 1: Oh maybe it was? Yeah, I think that sounds right, dude. 00:59:35 Speaker 2: They were throwing hands down in Tacoma. 00:59:37 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean it was. It was a true brawl, to the point where I couldn't even really tell who was throwing punches. There were so many people involved with it. 00:59:45 Speaker 2: Now, Okay, well, I think that's all the stuff from this series. We could talk about a couple of positive things now, Low, are you ready for my review of Field of Dreams. 00:59:57 Speaker 1: Don't ask me, ask the people. I mean you don't get me wrong, I've been on you about this for years. The people want to hear your review. 01:00:05 Speaker 2: So I watched it on Friday. Overall, a good movie out of five. I will give it a three out of five because I'm not huge in old movies. 01:00:15 Speaker 1: So well, again, like this is part of the problem. You didn't watch it growing up, and it loses some of the nostalgia when you watch it for the first time at twenty eight years old. 01:00:26 Speaker 2: But now I have a fully formed brain to process all of the information coming to me and have the ability to react to it rationally in real time, like the Mariners. 01:00:37 Speaker 1: Did we react to the Mariners rationally? Is that what this podcast is? Well? 01:00:41 Speaker 2: As a kid, I did no, sorry, no, not rationally. I was very positive about the Mariners when I was kid. I thought it was perfectly okay that a team never made the playoffs. Ever, yeah, then you grat sarcasm. That's literally what I thought. I mean that's probably all the other teams get to play in the postseason. 01:00:58 Speaker 1: How fun, dude. We did get sent a reply by somebody today on Twitter of their young Mariners fan who's gotta be four? Yeah, oh yeah. They said in the reply, this is my four year old son, and he's like on the ground crying, and the tweet literally says, this is what Dan Wilson's in game management is doing to the next generation of Mariners fans. 01:01:20 Speaker 2: And he was like, how do I explain this to a four year old? 01:01:25 Speaker 1: I'm at answers on that one, man. Good luck with that. Credit power to you. 01:01:31 Speaker 2: Okay. So my fully formed brain watched Field of Dreams on on Friday. I loved the ending. I thought the ending was great. Not what I was expecting. I thought. I thought Babe Ruth was the one he was supposed to build the field for eventually what to come back? 01:01:48 Speaker 1: Yes, win in the movie do they ever talk about Babe Ruth. 01:01:52 Speaker 2: He's the great at this point, He's the greatest baseball player of all time, and he's like the one. They already brought a bunch of dead plays back. They could have brought back the best one. 01:02:02 Speaker 1: Okay. So you were like, on your phone for half this movie's phone. 01:02:06 Speaker 2: No, I was not. 01:02:08 Speaker 1: There's no indication, Babe, Ruth was ever gonna be in this movie. 01:02:12 Speaker 2: To be fair, the dad was wearing a Yankee or no, it wasn't a giant's jersey. 01:02:18 Speaker 1: I think, No, it's the Yankees, Johnkinsella, I think it was the Yankees. Yeah, it's the Yankees. 01:02:22 Speaker 2: Okay, so I see a guy in a Yankee uniform and I'm like, oh shit, babe. But he was in his fat all right, I guess. Uh. So the ending was really nice. I liked that. I did think it was strange how fast he built the corn the field. I thought it was gonna take all movie to build this field. And then eventually, as soon as he finishes it, then the players all come out of the corn all at once. But no, that part was wrong. Also, never really got to see the players like walk out of the corn together. Not really. They always went out into the corn instead of in. 01:02:56 Speaker 1: I guess again. But that's that's why you got to see the whole movie, because it's not all about that. There's a lot more storylines to it. Again, there's the whole Terrence Man part with James Earl Jones aka with Vader, but he's not Vader and Field of Dreams anyway, and then there's the Moonlight Graham part of it, and then they bring him back and then it's Archie Graham because there you know, he's he's Moonlight as a as a basically sixteen seventeen year old aspiring to play baseball, and then he saves the daughter. Like, yeah, there's a lot of storylines. It's not all just about the field. 01:03:26 Speaker 2: It was a slow build for me. Once they got out on the road and he was with he was with Terrence Man, I thought it was really good, Like once that part happened and then he and I really liked the Moonlight Graham part. I thought that was cool, Like when they picked him up on the side of the road, it was like, oh, actually, yeah, you got me, You got me there. And then they get back to the field and it's a really fun story. Yes, Rayvett waited a while and eventually got Shoeless Joe Jackson to show up at his field. But like Shoeless Joe being the first player that comes to his field, just like out of anywhere, dead Shoeless Joe Jackson could be he decided on that field that he was gonna go do. It's not like Gray was sitting at his window like praying, oh, shoeless Joe, please come visit me. It's like writing to Santa Claus, like, no, shoeless Joe, just bang. 01:04:13 Speaker 1: No, No, it wasn't writing to Santa Claus. Again, he had the voices in his head. If you build it, he will come. That's like the most famous line in the movie. 01:04:22 Speaker 2: Well yes, but like you're telling me like a worst player didn't show up first. 01:04:29 Speaker 1: But again it's it's like all centered around Joe Jackson. What type of movie is that? If if some two ten hitter from the nineteen ten shows up at your field, Ray Cancello would be like, well, this is a massive waste of time. That's that, ain't Joe Jackson? 01:04:44 Speaker 2: Yeah, because then they would have lost the farm and it would have there would have been no movie. 01:04:48 Speaker 1: Correct, No, Joe Jackson had to be the first guy, like that was always Abe. 01:04:52 Speaker 2: Toro on the nineteen nineteen White Sox. 01:04:55 Speaker 1: Let's see, well I don't know because well, so again, now that you've watched Field the Dreams, you don't have to do it this second. And it's not as iconic of a movie as Field of Dreams. But you should watch Eight Men Out at some point because it's actually a very very good movie and details a lot about that nineteen nineteen White Sox team. Very good baseball movie. 01:05:14 Speaker 2: I'm yeah, that is on my list. Next, I'm gonna say that our Abraham Toro is going to be. 01:05:21 Speaker 1: Who's Oh they had a backup. You'll watch the movie. But they had a backup who was also kicked out of baseball because he got in on the the throwing the games. It was fred Freddy something is he on? There? 01:05:33 Speaker 2: Is it? Eddie Murphy? 01:05:34 Speaker 1: You're no no, no, no, no, no, no no no. 01:05:37 Speaker 2: Freddy, do I have it wrong? Fred McMullen. 01:05:41 Speaker 1: That's him? 01:05:42 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's him seven forty three. Ops. I was thinking more along a guy the lines of Eddie Murphy with his uh his no sorry, it's bird Lynn who I'm looking at? Who is a five point fifty nine? Ops. That's that's what we call the Abe special. 01:05:57 Speaker 1: Okay, Well you can, like I. 01:06:01 Speaker 2: Did like the movie, and there were also some other undertones in there that were like definitely not baseball related but definitely fit like Ray and his wife that like, it's mostly Baseball, and then they throw the scene in there where they're at the school board meeting, and I'm like, oh, actually, like I do get the bit of like the cultural message here. Sure, definitely not something I was expecting, but I liked it. It was a good movie. I'm glad it was on Netflix. It was gonna run out six days later, leave Netflix, So I'm glad I watched it. 01:06:29 Speaker 1: Then how about that, Maybe I'll have to watch it before it leaves Netflix. I just I love the movie. It's a great movie. 01:06:35 Speaker 2: You got until the thirtieth. 01:06:37 Speaker 1: Well now you can appreciate it now. When you hear Rich Waltz make the Moonlight Graham reference for Curtis Washington, now you know what it means. 01:06:46 Speaker 2: Yeah, one game ever in the big leagues. 01:06:49 Speaker 1: And never gotten a bat again. Rich Waltz was saying like he was hoping Curtis Washington would get out, maybe play anything in the field, pinch, run, and then if he didn't get to hit, that's that's your Moonlight Graham moment. Yeah, one game, but he never got to hit, So that's pretty cool. 01:07:04 Speaker 2: Yeah, I did d law DM me back yet. 01:07:07 Speaker 1: No, not as we've been sitting here recording, but no, I'll keep people updated. Again, I'm still kind of convinced it's fake, but we'll see how this all unfolds. 01:07:15 Speaker 2: We'll hopefully I have an update for Wednesday's podcast. 01:07:18 Speaker 1: I hope, But again, if he doesn't respond, it makes me think more and more as days go on that it's fake. Then again, he's a busy NFL player, he might have a lot of things going on. Who knows, But I don't know. I'm just still so thrown off by the whole thing. I was like, what on earth? 01:07:33 Speaker 2: Like he didn't DM the podcast account with like thirty thousand followers, which is like, all right, like it makes sense, Like, no, I'm gonna DM Lyle. It's crazy. 01:07:43 Speaker 1: Again, I don't I partly believe it's fake, and I don't want to believe it's fake. But it may be fake, and we'll find out. Yeah, we'll find. 01:07:52 Speaker 2: One of our followers is behind this, honestly, respect. 01:07:55 Speaker 1: If one of our followers is behind this, that is a really good prank. Yeah, I know how you hacked into his account. That seems like a separate issue, but it is a good prank. It's like it's like that time, remember when Buster on The's account got hacked into last year. Yeah, and people knew the bit they like they got whoever hacked into his account to tweet out I hate the Mets for all the Mets fans like Frank that think he just hates the Mets. 01:08:19 Speaker 2: Ran I knew it. 01:08:22 Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, well, at least we could end this episode with some upbeat messages and some laughs, because well, feel The Dreams is a great movie and I would love to get dla on if he's actually serious. 01:08:36 Speaker 2: Make a prediction. Is there an action this week? Yes? Or no? 01:08:39 Speaker 1: No? Is there? 01:08:41 Speaker 2: I also don't think there will be an action. 01:08:43 Speaker 1: No. Well, on that note, that'll just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Layer podcast. You guys know the drill. If you want to listen to the full form podcast, you can do so wherever you get your audio pods. Make sure to download these episodes. If you're listening, go rate and review. Please leave the five stars if you're on any of the audio platforms, it helps a ton. If you're on YouTube, just make sure to take a second and go hit that subscribe button. That way you're keeping up to date with all of our content. You're notified whenever we're posting again. It's just right in front of you. Just hit subscribe. You can find us on our website marine layerpod dot com. Episodes are all there, podcast merch is all there. TJ's weren't our merch right now? Go get yourself some merch. Patreon's all there. That's at marine layerpod dot com. And then you can find us on social media. We're everywhere and posting content every single day at marine layer Pod. That's TJ. I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon after tend to start tests