Episode 420: Which Mariners Deserve To Make The All-Star Game?

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number four to twenty of the Marine Layer Podcasts. The Mariners take the first game in Pittsburgh. We'll talk about what we saw from the first game of that series. We'll also make a case for the Mariners All Stars with the game coming up next month. 00:00:13 Speaker 2: A reminder to you guys before we start this podcast, just make sure to do us a big favor. Go download these episodes if you're listening, and make sure you rate and review five stars. If you're on YouTube, hit subscribe on our YouTube page. It's the best way to support the channel. You can also find us at our website marine layerpod dot com, where you can find our merch our, Patreon, and all of our episodes and a whole lot more. That's at marine layerpod dot com and check us out on social media. We're on all platforms and we're posting content every day at marine Layer Pod. 00:00:42 Speaker 1: Let's get it rolling and we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer podcast, part of the Just Baseball podcast network, Recording here on Tuesday evening, June twenty third. I thought here after the Mariners won the first game against the Pittsburgh Pirates on Tuesday night, that swing from Cole Young was one of the coolest things I've seen. You don't get to draw up how your first game playing in your home city can go pretty much any better than hitting a go ahead, two run home run against the team you grew up rooting for. I don't think Gorvin Carroll did that when he came back here, if I remember right. I don't think Gosh, pick a Mariner. I like JP Crawford hit a go ahead to run home run against the Dodgers or the Angels when he went back for the first time. No, I don't think so. So to have that happen for Cole Young, I thought that was amazing. 00:01:48 Speaker 2: I'm not sure Naylor did it against the Blue Jays. I'm not sure Cal did it against the Red Sox. Yeah, it doesn't really happen all that much. To see that go down, and to see Aaron Goldsmith basically segue into it like he was calling, like he was calling it and he could see it coming, and then for Cole Young to actually go and do it. You dream of stuff like Batman. Don't you think the two of us would dream of hitting a home run in T Mobile Park, Not that would ever happen, but that's what every person dreams about when you grow up playing baseball. Cole Young got to actually live it through and to do it against the team he grew up against, to help the Mariners get a win. That was pretty cool. 00:02:25 Speaker 1: The only thing that would have made that better is if Kutch was still there. Oh yeah, but Andrew mccutch it, where is he? 00:02:32 Speaker 2: Thes Dannies, Well, he was, he was with the Rangers and then they defade him. I would say if he hit it over Cutch his head, If Cole Young went straight to dead center and hit it over mccutcheen's head into the Pirates hedging out in center field, maybe that's the only way it gets better. But to do what he did was pretty nuts. So much poetry from the. 00:02:52 Speaker 1: Two young guys of this season. You have Colt hitting a home run over Jared Kelnick's head for his first career hit, first career home run, and you have Cole Young homering back in Pittsburgh. That's pretty cool and objectively in a huge moment of the game, knocking Mitch Keller out. Did what he needed to do. And it's not been since the first month of the season not been the smoothest sailing for Cole He's come back to earth offensively. He's sitting right about league average offensively, so for him to come up with a home run in that spot was that's pretty big. It's an overwhelmingly positive note for the first game in Pittsburgh after an objectively negative home series against the Boston Red Sox. It made us forget about all these other things we were talking about loud like, I don't know, piggybacks. 00:03:40 Speaker 2: Did it make us forget or did it just let us have a moment of bliss on Tuesday night? 00:03:46 Speaker 1: I'll say moment of bliss. 00:03:48 Speaker 2: I think that's right. Ah, one up at two. The only way it would have been made better for Cole Young is if he hit it all the way into the Allegheny because that ball went pretty far up the right field deck. If he had just gotten a little bit more of it and it actually cleared the bleachers, that would have been nuts. 00:04:03 Speaker 1: Him getting interviewed postgame cracked me up. It was as on brand Cole Young as humanly possible. Brad Adam goes so, Cole, now that you got all your family hear and you hit this huge home run, what are you gonna do to celebrate, and Cole says, uh, I don't know, man, I think we'll just talk on the field after the game. And it's like, and. 00:04:27 Speaker 2: What's that is? 00:04:30 Speaker 1: That? 00:04:30 Speaker 2: Isn't Cole Young trying to deflect an answer and be boring. I think that's literally just the first thing that came to his head and was what came out of his mouth. 00:04:41 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, Brad, we're gonna go. 00:04:43 Speaker 2: We're gonna go out. 00:04:43 Speaker 1: We're gonna get like, we're gonna go grab a couple of drinks and enjoy the moment. No, we're gonna stand on the field and talk to each other. Cole cracks me out. He's he's so hilariously on brand as a human being. He's I don't think he's gonna change. I really think that's just gonna be as personality his entire time. I can't wait to see what like thirty five year old dude, bro Cole Young is talking like. 00:05:07 Speaker 2: I cannot wait. I mean, do you remember when the Mariners did the whole video of when he got called up to the big leagues and John Russell, the Triple A manager, pulls him to his side in the dugout and tells him the news that he's going up to Seattle and all his teammates start hugging him and start congratulating him, and Cole doesn't have any words. And it's hard to have words in that moment because you wait your whole life for that moment. But I think the first thing that comes out of Cole Young's mouth was, I guess I'll go get my stuff. 00:05:42 Speaker 1: Again. 00:05:44 Speaker 2: He's like, he's not purposely trying to be funny, but he's very funny. 00:05:50 Speaker 1: That's great. He's he's the only Actually that's not true. Maybe is he the only one with this type of personality on the roster? Maybe exactly that personality. 00:06:00 Speaker 2: Yes, I think he is. 00:06:02 Speaker 1: He certainly is unique and he gives off like you know, him and JP Crawford are like similar, like general vibe, but each you're like different in the way they go about doing it doing it. I don't think JP is like a dude bro kind of guy, no, but Cole Young, Cole Young definitely is. 00:06:20 Speaker 2: Cole Young is the most Southern California dude ever to come from Pittsburgh. 00:06:25 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. So we're happy for Cole, happy that he did that. The Mirrors didn't play a fantastic game on Tuesday, Victor roebliss Well nearly gave me an aneurysm in what was it, the seventh inning? He almost drove me, like insane. 00:06:42 Speaker 2: Oh dude, Goldie kind of let him have it. 00:06:46 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like on brand for the twenty twenty six mirrors. Like, how however you can like draw up terrible base running Victor roeblist did? I mean? And Angie was like, look, not only do you are you like misreading this ball in the outfield and you're you're gonna get back picked if they do end up catching it, but then you don't score, and then you overrun third base and then you don't slide any Like, I wouldn't have been shocked if be Tor up his knee doing that. 00:07:13 Speaker 2: It was. 00:07:14 Speaker 1: It was the same lunch that both Dom can Zone and and Randy Rosarina got hurt at first base, except this one was at third. 00:07:22 Speaker 2: I thought Vic was hurt for a second because he kind of bend down and it looked like he was favoring one of his legs, and I was like, uh, oh, seems like he's all right. But yeah, that was that was not great. And again like yeah, Goldie and he kind of said like, basically, you know, he gotta be more heads up. 00:07:38 Speaker 1: Than that, and Victor's supposed to be one of their good base runners. 00:07:43 Speaker 2: So Mariners just so twenty twenty six Mariners with the base running mm hmm. 00:07:50 Speaker 1: Kirby was fine, Like everything else about the game was fine. Cal finally homeward for the first time in two months, which is wonderful to see. We're happy that he's back on the board in the in the home run department, I don't think there's any team from this game that's going to be like, yeah, I can for sure tell you the Mariners are going to win both of these next two games, But there is something else that will tell me that, Lyle. Because the Mariners lost the last series, that means they have to win this series, so they can lose the series in Cleveland, and they got off to a good start in that department. 00:08:18 Speaker 2: They will win one of the next two in Pittsburgh and then they'll probably lose two of three in Cleveland. If they want to stay on brand, they'll do exactly that. 00:08:25 Speaker 1: They've been pretty much on brand for this game, so that that would check out. I think the only other real bit of news before we go and make some All Star game cases for these guys. Is we have our next piggyback date and it will be Logan Gilbert and Emerson Hancock coming up this Saturday in Cleveland. Hmmm. So there. So when I was trying to project it when they initially decided on it, I think I had I had Woin Kirby today and Dead. They essentially flipped them. So the projections were right about what what turn in the rotation they were going to do it, but for this one they said they were going to do Logan Gilbert first and then they're gonna do Kirbean wu uh for our during our next watch party at Occidental Hall, which, by the way, if you came out to the one this Sunday at queen An Beer Hall, thank you. Hope you enjoy your free stein. It was fabulous. We had some giveaways, we watched the Mariners ate some great food, drink some great Corona beer. It was fantastic. Our next one will be for that two o'clock Blue Jays game on Sunday, July fifth, So if you want to mark that in your calendar, you missed this last one because you're out doing Father's Day activities, and you want to come to this next one July fifth, like one five will be there and then we'll be taping after at Occidental Hall, so at Oxtenal Hall outside the ballpark. 00:09:49 Speaker 2: Yeah, so come watch the game with us, or if you're at the game, then after the game, come on, come on over and we'll be taping live. So feel free to come hang out while we tape the pod. Well, in regard to this piggyback tage with Logan Gilbert in the news this week, you. 00:10:05 Speaker 1: Might have to remind me he won American League Player of the Week. 00:10:08 Speaker 2: Oh oh oh, and he's piggybacking. Oh that's fine. 00:10:13 Speaker 1: The Mariners have managed to intent I mean intentionally being the they're the ones deciding on this piggyback, but also almost unintentionally lining up. So the first two iterations of the piggyback just so happened to feature in the first iteration their best current picture pitcher and the second one of reigning American League Player of the Week. 00:10:39 Speaker 2: So, by the way, we didn't talk about it on Monday's pod, and honestly it's because I don't think I had seen a lot of the Friday postgame quotes until early in this week. But dude, Bryce Miller rightfully did not sound happy again on Friday after he was pulled out. 00:10:58 Speaker 1: No, he he did not. We were told everyone was on board with this plan. We weren't told they were happy about this plan. 00:11:07 Speaker 2: No, there's a difference. Accepting and excited are two very different things. And when Bryce Miller in the moment gets yanked at sixty six pitches, when he's essentially spinning a gem because he's at five innings of one run ball, and then he's like, yeah, you're done, and Luise comes in and gives up four runs, it's kind of tough to swallow. Man. 00:11:26 Speaker 1: Maybe there's a thought in the back of Bryce's head that it could happen like the first time they did the piggyback, where if he's really dealing so much, they'll just leave him out there. Perhaps he was just grasping onto that. Perhaps he was or perhaps what he was accepting of the idea until he was in the moment and he was like, why am I coming out of this game? This doesn't make any sense right, And he ended up getting pulled. But Bryce did, on all accounts, agreed to do this plan. He said, it's a preset plan, so you can't argue against it very much. So that's where we're at with the Mariners piggyback. And while it is true, like what we said, where of all the scenarios, this one does work best because the guys only lose two to three innings through the turns of this rotation. When these piggybacks are happening during these three weeks, it's not making the Mariners look very good. 00:12:23 Speaker 2: Oh dude, the optics look brutal. Oh yeah, again, this is a lot of hurdle jumping to keep a guy happy with a five twenty two era. I know Luis Castillo has been a little bit better since May first, because since May first and on, as era sits at about four point five, that's not much to write home about, man, And you've got other guys that are very, very clearly better options. 00:12:52 Speaker 1: This isn't even to say like the two starts completely changed how we're thinking about Logan Gilbert's twenty twenty six season, because if you remember, there was a mailbag question a couple episodes ago where we're asking who would make the most sense to piggyback with Luis Castile before they had announced their plan. I threwout Logan Gilbert as an option because to that point he had been struggling third time through. Now the next couple starts after that, or were the two starts he had, and he absolutely dominated. Two starts don't make a season, though, I'm interested to see how different pitchers will handle this scenario in Logan Gilbert and Emson Hancock, especially who throws first. That's gonna be fascinating. It's says Emerson, because Emerson Hancock it's his turn in the rotation first before Logan. But Logan's the more established guys. So who are they going to give the ball to? 00:13:42 Speaker 2: They already said Logan's gonna start. 00:13:44 Speaker 1: Oh they did, Okay, Well there you go. That answers that question. 00:13:47 Speaker 2: Also, Logan's last six starts, he's got a one forty nine ERA, So I know there was a question about who should piggyback, but objectively, since about the middle of May, Man Logan's been pretty damn good and. 00:14:01 Speaker 1: In fact, really look, I never said they should piggyback him. I just said he was an option. 00:14:07 Speaker 2: I mean, dude, if you want to put your best starters on the field and they may not do this because they may want to manage Kay's innings. But eventually, I don't mean right now, eventually, I mean what if if Emerson Hancock starts to get toward his innings limit, because I think he's gonna be on one two, post All Star break, post trade deadline, et cetera. I mean, is there a world that it's Luise and Emerson Hancock that go to the bullpen? You start like Kate, You start letting Kate Anderson start games, and who knows, maybe Kaid's got a chance to start postseason games if he that pitches that well. 00:14:42 Speaker 1: Hmm. I think that's less likely than the Mariners putting Kate in the bullpen and putting Louise in the rotation, which is wrong if you're trying to put your best pitchers out there. But I have a feeling that's more likely what they would do. 00:14:57 Speaker 2: Why they're so insistent on Louise specifically, I just I don't really know to. 00:15:01 Speaker 1: Make much sense. Besides the money, it doesn't make any sense. 00:15:04 Speaker 2: I don't know if there again, I don't know if they're trying to keep them stretched out because they're trying to keep his trade value up in case something comes up at the deadline, even though I don't know who's gonna take on that contract and give you something serviceable back in return. Which is why I keeps saying he'd be best utilized as a bullpen arm, because by the way, Luis was throwing ninety nine on Friday. Now, it didn't like the good results didn't last. He only had that one really good inning, but he was throwing hard in a short spurt, which is why I think to myself, well, why couldn't he become a bullpen arm? And then if somebody gets hurt in the rotation, Caid's right there. You would need two starters to get hurt to essentially need Louise Castillo to get back into the rotation if you were to move him to the bullpen. 00:15:50 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I still feel like there's a more likely chance that Louise stays in the rotation than Caid goes into the rotation. They just they haven't They haven't given us any proof that it would be the other way around, because the logical baseball winning play for this rotation is putting Luise in the bullpen. You have your starter depth in Kate Anderson, and you let your current five guys who are all pitching well at points continue to throw or they haven't done that, So would they change that up to put the least proven starter albeit dominating the minor leagues, straight into the rotation and putting Luis Castillo in the bullpen when they won't even do it for established major league starters like that. That's what I'm sitting here like sort of puzzled about. 00:16:38 Speaker 2: The biggest question again being why do they continue to insist on this? And I can't know, and nobody knows. The Mariners haven't given a good answer on this. They've been pretty tight lipped about why they are so insistent on this, other than oh, we just like all our pitchers. 00:16:55 Speaker 1: They want to keep them stretched out. But why do they want to keep them stretched out right? 00:17:00 Speaker 2: Which is what makes me think that this is some long term play to try to keep his trade value up at the deadline. That's what I think is a real possibility. Otherwise I don't have a good other possible reasoning other than there's something in his contract that's not public that we don't know about that's somehow like forcing the Mariner's hand to keep letting him start games. 00:17:27 Speaker 1: I know you and I think the same way on this. I don't know how it could be trading him at the deadline. I don't think he's tradable. 00:17:34 Speaker 2: So then what the hell is going on? Is it to so then it do go to my second option. And there's no way to know this for sure because it wouldn't be public. But is there something in his contract that's not public that's essentially forcing them to keep letting him pitch? 00:17:51 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe it's possible if. 00:17:55 Speaker 2: The Mariners missed the playoffs by a slim number of games, this piggyback's going to come roaring back in a wild way. In terms of a conversation at the end of September. 00:18:06 Speaker 1: You know, I was thinking, as we were getting ready to record, there is one iteration of this they have yet to try that might be better than what they are currently doing right now. We have not seen a strictly Emerson Hancock Luis Castill piggyback because Emerson has struggled a bit in his last few starts. We mentioned him as an option to piggyback due to his innings limits and his struggles third time through the order. And I'd imagine as he pitches deeper into the season, we might see a bit of a velocity dip from him, just given the fact he's going into territory he hasn't been in a while slash. Ever, the All Star Break comes up after they're done with this current piggyback experiment, They'll have four days off and then, as most teams do, they reshuffle a rotation. Was it last year or the year before the Mariners went with a four man rotation out of the All Star Break because they could because the off day allowed them to do a four man rotation, or maybe it was beginning of this year. Regardless, teams have the ability if the off days line up, to do that kind of thing. What this would allow the Mariners to do out of the All Star Break is they could line up their four best starters, which are Logan Gilbert, George Kirby, Brian Woon, Bryce Miller pretty clearly right now those four guys, and then you piggyback Emerson Hancock and Luis Castillo as the fifth starter there. I do feel like, given where the Mariners are at right now, that would be the least least controversial to the fans. 00:19:34 Speaker 2: And maybe after the All Star Break they do. 00:19:36 Speaker 1: That because after the All Star break, like, they can't go back to the other old options, which they told us they didn't like. I mean, Bryce Miller's told everyone publicly that he didn't like the first version where he's stuck you with the piggyback. The Mariners told us they didn't like the six man rotation, and now you've already had Bryce Miller come out against this version of this version of it. And that's not including what all the other guys think about it as well, knowing they only had to give up three innings to do this. If the front office comes to them and says, hey, we're gonna actually need you to give up more innings, then guys might start having an issue with this. 00:20:15 Speaker 2: I'll say Bryce milleranen't quite come out against this iteration of it, but he certainly didn't sound like he was publicly endorsing it either. 00:20:22 Speaker 1: The tone was not positive. 00:20:25 Speaker 2: I think if you read the tea leaves you can make out a conclusion. Bryce did not directly say it kind of the way he did last time, but you can read the tea leaves, and again, Bryce's totally right for feeling that way. I would be pissed if I had thrown five innings at sixty six pitches of one run ball and was pulled out of the game. 00:20:43 Speaker 1: If anyone's got another suggestion on what else they could do besides all the other options we list off, please go leave us a comment. Besides moving Louis Castillo to the bullpen, which we've literally just been talking about for a month now about them doing and they've still yet to do it, I don't know what, like, literally what else they do after the All Star break besides pair up Emerson, Hancock and and Luis Castile. Emerson unfortunately also doesn't have as much cachet at the big league level as those other guys do, so like if he pushes back against it, he just has less ground to stand on than multi year established starters. Loging over George Kirby, Bryan lu and Bryce Miller. 00:21:23 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I agreed. 00:21:26 Speaker 1: That's where we're at with the piggyback our daily piggybackup date. 00:21:29 Speaker 2: Oh good. 00:21:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, we do have some All Star Game cases to be to make. The Mariners do have quite a few options. There's a couple of surprise options in here as well that we're going to talk about. But before we get to that. I want to tell you guys about Emerald Queen casinos summer lineup of shows. If you haven't been down to EQUC yet, we were down there for our trivia night last month. It's a fantastic place to go hang out and you can see a bunch of fun shows. You can see Rodney Carrington on June twenty fifth this week. You can see War on July seventh, teenth, you can see Brantley Gilbert on August twenty second, and you can see Pete Davidson on August twenty eighth. Get your tickets today at Emerald Queen dot com. 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We could always use some pointers, always could use some suggestions. We'll be there. What Mariners are going to join us there? Lyle. We have a bunch of options from this current roster that we're going to go through and evaluate their canadacy to the twenty twenty six All Star Game. I want to start off with an obvious one. If Randy rose Aren is not an All Star, the process is broken. 00:24:17 Speaker 2: Literally, well the process is broken because if you've seen the voting results, it's. 00:24:22 Speaker 1: All Blue six. I mean, he's still in the field right now. 00:24:27 Speaker 2: Listen. I hope this doesn't sound like an old man yelling at a cloud. I think we might have to do away with fan voting here pretty soon, at least fan voting having this much determination on who's starting, because there cannot be this many Blue Jays starting the All Star Game. It's just these are not the best players. This is all of Canada. Credit to them getting to the ballots and voting for their guys, but these aren't the best players you Cary. 00:24:54 Speaker 1: Rose aren is sixth right now. I think Dalton var Show is the one right behind him. 00:24:57 Speaker 2: They're everywhere. I mean, Kirk's the catcher, and Latti's at first base, over Ben Rice and over a bunch of other guys, and like Jamdez is up high in the polls. It's crazy. 00:25:08 Speaker 1: Come on, maybe we could do fans fifty percent. You know, it would be wild. We did fans fifty percent and players fifty. 00:25:15 Speaker 2: Percent, it would be kind of interesting. 00:25:19 Speaker 1: Because if you think all respect to the players, if you if you think the fan voting is bad, the player voting is as random as it gets, like the NFL Top one hundred lists. 00:25:33 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so maybe it should be a third fans, a third player is and a third media or front office. 00:25:40 Speaker 1: Maybe, or they can just do it how they do it with the pitchers, right, make it all the same. 00:25:46 Speaker 2: That's more what I would vote for, because there's usually a much more sound process to that. But yes, Randy Rose Arena should be an All Star, and I think he will be an All Star. 00:25:54 Speaker 1: Right now, he's on pace to be a set of career ion war among American League All American League players, he's ninth in WRC plus he's fourth, and steals he's thirteenth, and f WAR among outfielder he's outfielders he's third, he's first in steels, and he's fourth in WAR. That's like as slam dunk of a case as you could get for an All Star as you can literally. Yeah, that's it. There's I don't know what discussion we can have with Randy Roserenn. If he's not an All Star, then they need to redo this process. He's been the Mariner's best player this season and he deserves to be there, legit. While he just honestly deserves to start, he did on he's right on the edge of getting one of those three starting outfield spots for the American League. That's how good he's been. 00:26:40 Speaker 2: I mean, Judge is gonna get one? Well, no, he's hurt. 00:26:43 Speaker 1: Sorry, Is he healthy? He is gonna be healthys not healthy either? 00:26:47 Speaker 2: Probably not so. Yeah, I guess that cuts down the field a little bit. Buxton will probably get one. 00:26:52 Speaker 1: Buxton makes it in the next three weeks healthy, then he'll get one. 00:26:56 Speaker 2: Yeah, I forgetting any obvious ones. I mean Yourdan will probably DH right, he's not gonna play the outfield. 00:27:04 Speaker 1: I don't think so. Let's let's see. 00:27:06 Speaker 2: I don't think I'm I don't think I'm forgetting any crazy obvious ones. 00:27:11 Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. Like, Buxton has been the best outfielder in the American League by War this year. Trout is then the next close. Oh, Cody Bellinger is gonna have a pretty solid case. He's been really good this year. 00:27:22 Speaker 2: M hm. 00:27:23 Speaker 1: He's been a little more valuable than Randy. But the the only three outfielders that have been more valuable than Randy Rose arena on fangrafts are Trout, Bellinger, and Byron Buxton. Then the guys after him that'll be competing. I mean you'll have Saddan Rafaela. Also, this is totally random lyle has nothing to do with this conversation. Brian Rochio has the same war as Randy Rose Reina this year. 00:27:47 Speaker 2: How about that? Yeah, one guy does it all with his bat and one does it all with his glove. 00:27:52 Speaker 1: Pretty much after that, I mean it's Riley Green, Aaron Judge, Ezekiel Duran, But I mean Randy should be a overall these guys start. 00:28:02 Speaker 2: He's gonna get in. We'll see if he starts, and he'll he'll have a case too, But he's gonna get in. 00:28:07 Speaker 1: I have another interesting case for you for the Mariners. How about Dom Canzone. 00:28:13 Speaker 2: I mean, just by the numbers, he's certainly got a real case. It's just how much they value a platoon bat versus the rest of the field versus all those other guys you just mentioned, right, because he's gonna go up against like Judge and Trout will be hurt, but Buckston, Rafaela, who obviously does so much with the glove, Riley Green, you'll have Randy in there. Like Dom's not gonna accrue the war to be up in the ranks of the All Stars because he just doesn't play enough defense. He doesn't play every day. But if you're if you're factoring in just the offensive production of alongside platoon hitter in which Canzone is, then yeah, he's got a case. His ops is way over nine hundred. 00:28:58 Speaker 1: He would be a bench bet if he'd did make it. But major league Baseball would have to. It wouldn't be unprecedented, but it would be. They would make almost an exception for Dom Canzone. He has the fewest amount of plate appearances of anyone in the top thirty of WORC plus rankings in the American League this year. They would have to stretch a little bit to get him in. But if we're just talking production on the field, he's only had two hundred and one plate appearances and has been worth a war the one and a half war, like the pace of that as an All Star player. 00:29:34 Speaker 2: Sure, the comparison you could use here is honestly our favorite platoon hitter of this podcast. Carry Carpenter's never made an All Star game. Carry Carpenter's had some ridiculous seasons at the plate. I mean two years ago Carpenter had a nine to thirty two OPS for the year. Wasn't an All Star? 00:29:52 Speaker 1: What about that Jacques Pearson season? 00:29:55 Speaker 2: Huh? 00:29:56 Speaker 1: What about that Jack Peterson season? Which one he he had a season with I think it was the Yeah, it was with the Diamondbacks, So he had one hundred and thirty two games played. He had a nine to oh eight OPS for the whole season. As a dh platoon head or net didn't make the All Star Game. 00:30:16 Speaker 2: It is tough for platoon bats. It just as hmm, I think there. I think there is a case for domin though. I well, now the other side of that. This is gonna be a pretty funny example, but it's a real example because Jesse Winker was a platoon player for the Reds and he made an All Star Game back in twenty one when he had a nine to fifty ops. 00:30:39 Speaker 1: Hmm, but didn't Jesse played against righty or lefty some. 00:30:44 Speaker 2: Not a ton He played one hundred and ten games that year. 00:30:48 Speaker 1: Well, he also had a problem getting hurt. 00:30:51 Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe that's what it was here. If I can look at the splits fast, I'll do it for Winker. But again, like he mostly hit that year, Yeah, okay, so maybe maybe he saw it. He had sixty three games against lefties and it says one hundred and seven against righties, which means because he only played one hundred and ten games, that means he was intermingling against each side of the plate. 00:31:17 Speaker 1: What we can say for Dom Canzona is that he has had an all Star caliber season, but he not might not have all Star credentials to do so, m H. 00:31:27 Speaker 2: I think that's right, But I think that's fair. 00:31:31 Speaker 1: All Star games don't like mean as much as winning games, so we'll see. The next guy is Julio Rodriguez, and Julio I think is right on the line. He is, I think skirting like right on the edge of whether or not he actually deserves to be an All Star this year. 00:31:51 Speaker 2: I think it'll be like last year, where if he gets in, unless something drastically changes in the next couple weeks, it'll be pretty late. Among center fielders, he is fourth among ale centerfielders in War. I believe it's Trout, Buxton, and Rafaela ahead of him. Yeah, it is, it's those three. Trout's obviously injured. But the thing about the All Star Game is it's not by position, it's just outfielders. They just stick the best outfielders out there, not the best left fielders, centerfielders, and right fielders. So if Julio gets in, I mean he's sitting in at about a one to eleven WRC plus he's got one and a half wins on fangrafts, which is down for him, well down in terms of what his overall pace would usually be for the year, but we also know a lot of his damage usually comes in the second half. So if he gets in, yeah, I think it's gonna be as an alternate, and I think it would be pretty late in the process. But I just don't know if he really has the accolades so far in the first half to say he is a definitive All Star. 00:32:50 Speaker 1: He's got essentially the same resume as he did last year. I wouldn't look like this at this point. Last year, on June twenty third, as we're recording this, he had the same WRC plus. Yeah, and he ended up making an All Star game last year by having a crazy final serie. Well, this isn't no. They selected him, he turned it down, and then he had a crazy final series and stayed home. That's what he did if I remember that order correctly. If he's going to get in, he's gonna get in off of name recognition. He's not going to get in off of accolade offensive accolades, at least, definitely not defensive accolades, because I think his case would be a bit better if his defense was at normal levels and his war was like one win higher, which I think it would be if he played defense at even last year's pace. But since he hasn't and he's you know, nursing a one toh nine WORC plus entering the game today with a one and a half war, that's it's not very not very convincing. But they could still end enough guys could opt out. He could end up playing anyways. Would he accept again, I honestly don't know if he would. I couldn't tell you. 00:33:57 Speaker 2: I mean, maybe he'd want the time off again. I don't know if that was just a last year thing or reset that he now wants every year. Only Julio would really be able to answer that. But you're right that if he gets in, there is gonna be some name brand behind that rather than just pure production. Because I'll give you an example. I'm not even gonna throw out some random name. I'll give you some above average name. If Brandon Neimo had Julio's stats, I don't think Brandon Nemo's getting into the All Star Game, even as an alternate. What Julio does with his name recognition is up himself a little bit. Nimo wouldn't get in off those accolades. 00:34:31 Speaker 1: Or what about if this was let's do the have him do someone as the same position, because I don't think Neimo's a sumer at centerfielder anymore. How about if Saddan Rafaela had these numbers, would he be an All Star? 00:34:43 Speaker 2: Yeah? Probably not. Doesn't have the same name recognition. 00:34:46 Speaker 1: No he doesn't. I wouldn't be heartbroken whether or not Julio makes the All Star Game. I at this point of his career, given that Julio took last year's All Star Game off. Not totally trying to speak for him, but it's obviously not a make or break exc experience for him anymore. It doesn't seem like and the rest was very valuable for him because he had a much better second half than he did first half last year, and if you remember last year, I think the vibe around him was a little bit different this month. Julio's had a tough month, but overall it's been a productive time for him at the plate. Last year, it was a swirl of negativity heading into the All Star break. He could not figure it out at the plate at all, and the break made more sense. I would be a little bit more surprised this year if he just said, Hey, I need to focus on myself. But I also wouldn't bash against him because it worked, and you know, All Star Game is not the be all end all in my opinion. 00:35:42 Speaker 2: No agreed. Great. 00:35:44 Speaker 1: Before we get to the pitchers, we have three different mariners pitchers each with I think three unique cases to make the All Star Game coming up here in a month. Let's pause here for an ad. 00:35:54 Speaker 2: Summer always changes how I get dressed. I want clothes that are lighter and more breatheable, things that are e but also still put together. That's why I keep coming back to Quints. They focus on high quality essentials that look and feel amazing. Think breathable linen and soft organic cotton, well made basics, but without the luxury markup. It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated but still effortless. 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Go to quins dot com slash Marine Layer for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns now available in Canada too. That's quins dot com slash Marine Layer for free shipping and three hundred sixty five day returns quins dot com slash Marine Layer. 00:37:21 Speaker 1: First picture we're going to talk about is Brian Wu. Brian wo through the first half as an era, sitting just under four as expected, numbers look significantly better and he's fall and away the best picture in this rotation. My fangraft swins above replacement. Do we think he's an All Star or do we think this era is going to be held against him? 00:37:41 Speaker 2: Depends on what people measure off by Warman, he is tied for six in the American League. The values there, and there's usually more than six starting pitchers that get selected. I think if Brian Wu has a pretty good final couple starts and he lowers the ERA even just a little bit more in a down to somewhere between three six and three seven as the voting starts to finish up, he'll be there. 00:38:06 Speaker 1: Brian Wu is going to be an All Star because he is an All Star caliber pitcher less than he has all Star caliber overall stats in the first half. 00:38:17 Speaker 2: Although he's tied for six then war in the American League. 00:38:21 Speaker 1: He is, but dra's pretty high and he's not striking out a crazy amount of batters. So if you were to just say, look, Brian Wo's allowed way more runners, way more runs than he usually does, and he's not striking the world out. He's not doing this with a thirty percent strikeout rate. Just sort of the baseline production stats are not saying, hey, he's an All Star, but we also know how good Brian Wu can be. Just look at his last start. Amazing. 00:38:52 Speaker 2: He's gonna have roughly what four more starts until the All Star break, and it's probably three more until those at least the first round of votes tally in. Maybe after that fourth one is when the final votes will start tallying in. So look, man, if Brian Wu is a four start stretch where he's just dominant and gets back to being Pete Brian Wu, I think the numbers will be there at the end, even if one of those starts is a little shaky, and he has three of four good starts to end the first half, you're probably talking about his Zra sitting a lot closer to three five, three six, and that looks more like an All Star. 00:39:26 Speaker 1: Can you name the six pitchers who rank in front of him in the ale? Oh? 00:39:31 Speaker 2: I was looking at this earlier, so I have down in my notes he has tied for sixth in al f war by starting pitchers. But if you want me to actually try to rank the guys ahead of them, okay, and. 00:39:42 Speaker 1: I'm asking this because the list is is kind of crazy. 00:39:45 Speaker 2: Okay, I was just looking at this earlier. So let's see if I can get him right. It is well, I mean, dude, so many of the best starters are in the National League. I mean miss Yamamoto, Sanchez, Skeens, Scooble's been injured, so like he's not up there. Who's on here? I mean Hunter Brown's been injured, so he's not up there? Is Joe Ryan one of them? 00:40:07 Speaker 1: Yep, he's one of them? 00:40:08 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, he's one. Oh, Schlitzler has to be one four and away one? Yeah, I mean he's he might start the All Star Game. 00:40:16 Speaker 1: He should start the All Star Game. He's been the best picture in baseball. 00:40:20 Speaker 2: Better well you think he's been better than Sanchez and miz. 00:40:24 Speaker 1: Okay, sorry, best picture in the American League? 00:40:26 Speaker 2: Yeah? 00:40:27 Speaker 1: Uh? 00:40:28 Speaker 2: Who else is going to be on this list? So that's two of them? What else we got? I can do this? It's bullpen banner crossed over with the Marine Layer pod. As we're sitting here doing this, I can. 00:40:41 Speaker 1: Hear on the pod though we could be as niche as we want. 00:40:44 Speaker 2: Sure, there's okay, So there's there's four more because there's three, four, five, and then the guy that's tied at six with wu give me the give me the divisions. 00:40:55 Speaker 1: I mean you have an Ale West at number two. 00:40:58 Speaker 2: Okay, so there's somebody I'm missing. It's none of the Mariners, it's none of the Astros. 00:41:05 Speaker 1: And going into the season, you would say never in a million years up here. 00:41:09 Speaker 2: I know. I was just looking at this earlier. It's redept Mers. Redebt Mers is number two in the Ale. He's been really good. And I guess Jose Sriano's falling off a bit because I don't think he's up here. 00:41:19 Speaker 1: No, he's not. 00:41:21 Speaker 2: He was really good to start the year and then he's taken a little bit of a spin. Okay, so Debt Merse. We got half of these. Who else has got a big money pitcher at number three? Mm hmm Ale Central No, mm hm. Well it's not the Red Sox, it's not the Orioles East. Oh oh, it's one of Ceesar godsman, I'll say Dylan ce'es. 00:41:48 Speaker 1: It's Seas. 00:41:49 Speaker 2: So we've got four of them who we still need. 00:41:53 Speaker 1: And number five and number six they have the same initial to start their names. 00:42:00 Speaker 2: That's not gonna help. Let's see where else could he? 00:42:05 Speaker 1: Oh? 00:42:06 Speaker 2: Is is one of them? A ray? Yep? 00:42:09 Speaker 1: Is it? 00:42:09 Speaker 2: Nick Martinez No, Oh, it's not McClanahan, is it. No, Martinez was so good for a while, so it's not him. It's not McClanahan. Pepio's hurt. Who oh, oh? Is it Rasmussen. 00:42:26 Speaker 1: It's Drew Rasmussen. 00:42:28 Speaker 2: Okay, what division is this? 00:42:30 Speaker 1: Last guy in central? It starts with a d al Central. 00:42:35 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, this is really niche. This guy's been really good. It's Davis Martin. 00:42:40 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of that's a jumbled list of guys in front of Brian lou So, okay, all those guys will should make the All Star Game. 00:42:48 Speaker 2: So let's do that again, because that was very jumbled for people sitting here listening. So it is in some order. Schlitler, Debt, Mers, Joe, Ryan, Davis Martin, uh, season Rasmussen, see Rats Muss and Brian wu. That's a pretty crazy list. 00:43:06 Speaker 1: What a what a what a pitching staff? You know how people were joking last year that the American League's starting lineup on the All Star Game people would look back on it in twenty years and be like, wow, m like, that's that's such a random lineup. If that's the assortment of pitchers the ALE is gonna send out there this year. I think people are gonna do the same thing in twenty twenty six with the pitching staff. 00:43:28 Speaker 2: I bet you Trek Scoogle still gets in off name as long as he has a couple more good starts, I bet he still gets there. 00:43:36 Speaker 1: I think so. I think they'll select him in there. 00:43:38 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's another point being I think one way or another, Wu's gonna end up there unless he really falls apart in his last few starts. 00:43:49 Speaker 1: Next one's Logan Gilbert Logan. Gilbert has pretty much, in my opinion, the same case as Brian Wu. I think the American League will select one or the other a Logan. Gilber doesn't have as good expected stats as WU does, but he does have a better era and he's thrown more innings, will striking out more batters. 00:44:07 Speaker 2: Though, again, if you're just gonna use the value, the war numbers aren't there for Gilbert, and by era he's been better than WU. But he's outside the top ten in the American League, like just outside. He ranks eleventh. So what do you value here? I guess if you're trying to rank the player based off where their value has been and where the results have been versus their peers. WU ranks more up the totem pole in some of these categories than Logan Gilbert does right now. 00:44:36 Speaker 1: Or it can just ask you while who has been the better picture this year, Logan Gilbert or Brian Wu. 00:44:42 Speaker 2: I feel like it's still been Wu, even amidst the tough stretch he had. 00:44:45 Speaker 1: I'm with you. I think Brian has been a better picture, better, more, maybe more consistence the wrong word, but he's he's been a better picture this year than Logan Gilbert. 00:44:55 Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, the last case is because I actually think Gilbert has the war case. Of these three guys, the last case here is the most fascinating, and this could be in a lot of ways. This year is Jacob Mizerowski case not quite the small enough sample, but it's Bryce Miller. I mean, I think Bryce is a real case. 00:45:14 Speaker 1: Well, Bryce Miller's pitching like an All Star. He's gonna have to force them to put him on the roster one five eight era, a thirty percent strikeout ray in a three percent walk rate, Like, come on, He's going to have four more starts by the time the All Star break rolls around, so he'll be at eleven starts and he would probably get added to the roster with his tenth after his tenth start, so he's gonna essentially get three more starts to put himself on that All Star Game roster. I mean, I'll just say this. I mean, since he came back, he has been an All Star caliber pitcher. He's been one of the best pitchers in Major League Baseball since he's been back. That's one. I think that's the case that you have to use right there. 00:45:56 Speaker 2: Here's another part of here's another niche number. I won't make you do the trivia like we did, but I'll just read it out to you. Since Bryce Miller's come back, he is fifth in Baseball in Era not the American League, in baseball since his first start back off the IL this year. The guys who rank ahead of him, when Logan Webb is the smallest name of the four, that tells you a lot because Logan Web's ahead of them, and then it's Jacob Mizerowski, Christopher Sanchez, and Yoshinobu Yamamoto. Would you say that's pretty good? 00:46:25 Speaker 1: I would say that's really, really, really good. The thing Bryce is not gonna have that Miserowski does. I kind of feel like most of the reason Jacob Mizerowski was added to last year's All Star Game, it's because he throws one hundred and five miles an hour. Bryce does not throw one hundred and five miles an hour, So unlike miss last year, Bryce is going to need to prove with the stats that he deserves to be an All Star. But if you were just ask me point blank, like TJ, you can pick one Mariner starter to go to the All Star Game this year, I'd have a really tough time not saying. Bryce Miller agreed. There's there's a lot of starts, Like there's a ten start difference between him and his other two guys that he's competing with for the All Star Game, and lots can happen in those starts. But Bryce Miller is dominating more than even Brian Wuz dominated this season. 00:47:15 Speaker 2: I would put Bryce Miller in before any of the other starters, even with the smaller sample. If Bryce Miller has three more good starts, I really hope Major League Baseball gets him to the game because he deserves it. Even with the smaller sample, he has been that guy. He has been the rock in the Mariners rotation since coming back off the il. He has been the stopper in the rotation. He has been their most dominant arm. I'd give it to him. 00:47:38 Speaker 1: What's unfortunate for him is that he is slotted to pitch in the last game of the first half. 00:47:45 Speaker 2: You could still, though, have him selected and he goes and he gets to soak it all in and he gets to be on the field and he gets to have the whole experience. Maybe he just wouldn't pitch. Honestly, for a Mariner's fan, that's best case scenario. You don't have to worry about a pitcher getting injured in the All Star Game. Bryce gets to go soak it all in and then he's fine to go pitch the second half. 00:48:07 Speaker 1: Fair point. I do feel like those guys really do like the opportunity to go all out against an All Star lineup and Bryce can just let it rip for an inning. I mean, you see ninety eight to one hundred miles an hour from him. 00:48:20 Speaker 2: Though, Would that not be his bullpen day if he starts Sunday. 00:48:26 Speaker 1: No, his bullpen day would be Wednesday. 00:48:28 Speaker 2: I think, Oh yeah, I guess that's. 00:48:30 Speaker 1: Right, Wednesday or Thursday, and maybe it might even be longer. Than that, since we don't know when Bryce is starting coming out of the All Star break either. 00:48:38 Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope he gets to go and experience it, even if he starts the last game of the first half. Some pitchers skip it when that happens to him, the guys that have done it a million times and might just want to rest. I feel like if Bryce Miller gets selected to the All Star Game, his first All Star Game, he would go and he would soak it all in. 00:48:56 Speaker 1: And it's closer for him to go to Philly than it would be to fly back to Seattle because the Mariners will be in Tampa Bay the weekend before, right, it'd be it wouldn't It wouldn't be at It wouldn't be like the Bryce was. The Mariners were playing their last series of the first half in Sacramento and Bryce had the choice of flying back to Seattle for four days or he had a fly all the way across the country to Philadelphia. This one's not quite as inconvenient now if Bryce does make it, though, But what were you gonna say? You might take the words out of my mouth, but go for it. I was get The coolest thing about this is that Bryce would become if he was selected the fourth different Mariners homegrown starting pitcher to make an All Star Game in the last four years, and of the guys in this rotation, it will be the fifth guy in five years, because Luis Castillo made it in twenty twenty two, Kirby made it in twenty twenty three, Gilbert made it in twenty twenty four, Brian Wu made it in twenty twenty five, and hopefully Bryce Miller could make it here in twenty twenty six. I know we were really pining hard for our guy a few weeks ago. I don't know if he has the stats now to make the All Star Game. 00:50:05 Speaker 2: Unfortunately, Yeah, you did take the words right out of my mouth. I was also gonna say that if Bryce makes it, every single guy in the Mariner's rotation will have made an All Star Game as a Mariner because Castillo made it in twenty twenty three. That would be pretty remarkable. You have all five guys make an All Star Game as a Mariner be pretty good. 00:50:25 Speaker 1: I just know there's no other rotation in baseball that can say that what the Mariners have done in pitching development is something that should be lauded across Major League Baseball. It is. It's great and they've really knocked it out of the park. 00:50:40 Speaker 2: And Kate Anderson and Ryan Sloan probably have a pretty good chance in their own right to make some All Star Games in their career. 00:50:45 Speaker 1: They have two guys that have are projected higher than any of the current five guys in the rotation. They have all made All Star games. M hm, that's great to. 00:50:54 Speaker 2: Be talking about seven different starters making the All Star Game. 00:50:58 Speaker 1: It's crazy, An, what an accomplishment. I know there's flaws elsewhere, and we have highlighted a lot of those flaws, but man, the development of pictures is crazy. That's why they're taking a picture in the first round this year, because they're like, yeah, do I want to risk a high schooler busting like a high school hitter busting, or do I want Oh, I'll just draft a college pitcher in the first round will be an All Star in twenty thirty one. 00:51:22 Speaker 2: There you go. You know what, let our guy Logan Evans eventually make an All Star Game too, and that'll be eight different guys. 00:51:29 Speaker 1: That would be so cool. 00:51:31 Speaker 2: That amazable. He's coming back with a vengeance. I just want people to know that come next year. 00:51:36 Speaker 1: I think he's gonna I think he's gonna blow some people away when he comes back. 00:51:40 Speaker 2: I do too, But I think that covers all the Mariners All Stars. I think that covers all the guys that have a true case. So you guys make sure to tell us in the comments of these guys, who would you vote for? Who would be your number one priority to make the All Star Game on this team. I'm sure the answers will vary, and we're interested to see him. 00:51:58 Speaker 1: The only other picture we did make was Kirby. Kirby again has a very similar case to Logan Gilbert and Brian Wu, but he also has an ERA over four, so's he's probably third among those three. 00:52:10 Speaker 2: Yeah, I just don't see that one happening. And you know what, the two lefty relievers probably have a case in their own right too, and Jose fererin Gabe Spier, but non closers just so rarely make All Star Games that unfortunately, it's gonna be pretty tough. 00:52:24 Speaker 1: The only one who is on pace out of the bullpen besides those two to make an All Star Game was Brash, but Brash shirt right because Matt had a mats eras I think still like a half Yeah, if you have a half er and you have a thirty percent or higher strikeout rate of and you're not a closer, then I feel like you have a chance. But we barely got to see that for Matt. 00:52:46 Speaker 2: It's just gotten tougher and tougher for non closers to make it, so I think it'll be hard. Yeah, all right, good stuff. I think that just about wraps up this edition of the Marine Layer podcast. You guys know the drill. If you want to listen to the full form podcast, you can do so wherever you get your audio pods. Make sure to download these podcasts episodes if you're listening, and make sure to go rate and review. Please leave at five stars. Whether you're on Apple or on Spotify. You can leave a written review on Apple too. If you choose to go hit subscribe on YouTube, it's the best way to support the channel. You get notified whenever we're posting content, so go hit that subscribe button. It's right in front of you. If you're watching on YouTube, you can find us on our website marine layerpod dot com. Episodes are all there, patreons there, podcast merches all there there. We go. It's all at our website it's Marine layerpod dot com, and then find us on social media. We're posting content every day across all our platforms. You can find us everywhere at Marine Layer Pod. That's TJ. I'm Lyle. It's always we Thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon. 00:54:00 Speaker 1: Stuts t