Episode 12: Jordan Shusterman (Cespedes Family BBQ And FOX Sports), Previewing Mariners' First Basemen in 2023, And Speak Your Mind

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number twelve of the Marine Layer Podcast with TJ. Matthewson and Lyle Goldstein. On today's pod, we have Jordan Schusterman of Cesspitas, Family Barbecue and Foxsports dot Com. Jordan had a lot to say about the Mariners offseason, and we gave them a platform to talk about it here on this podcast. 00:00:19 Speaker 2: We'll take a look at. 00:00:19 Speaker 1: Mariner's first baseman on our first base preview for the twenty twenty three season. We'll close out the show with speak your Mind. Let's get it rolling, and we welcome you into the Marine Layer Podcast. Here on Tuesday, January twenty fourth, and the Mariners Lyle have made their biggest free agent acquisition of the off season. 00:00:50 Speaker 2: Aaron Goldsmith still a Mariner. 00:00:52 Speaker 3: Yes, you think it's a joke, I mean it was. I was not thrilled to see he was a finalist for the Cardinal's job. I mean I would have been thrilled for him if that's what he wanted. But it's not a hot take or a bold statement to say Aaron Goldsmith's one of the best broadcasters in the entire business at this point. He is in his resume and the games that he's done show that and Mariners fans love him, so to see that he's going to stay here in Seattle for what seems like a long time at this point is awesome because he makes watching or listening to games just that much more fun. 00:01:31 Speaker 1: And he's a lot different than everyone else in the Mariners booth. Him and Gary are pretty alike, but in terms of Riz and Dave Sims, very different. Riz and Sims are much more old school, not as much into the numbers, but Aaron Goldsmith very much into the numbers. 00:01:47 Speaker 2: And he's funny. He's so funny, and. 00:01:50 Speaker 1: It's a great thing, the chemistry he has with Gary, that he has with Rick, that he has with Mike Blowers, that he has with Dave Simms. It's a real treat to the city. And I'm really glad he's not leaving. Like you said, I was worried too, because not only is that his hometown, Saint Louis is a marque job for broadcasters, Markey. They talk about it all the time. You go into the broadcast booth in Saint Louis, it is like a palace in there. I mean, we're talking about Harry Carey in terms of legendary status there in Saint Louis, Jack Buck, Joe Buck as well. Like, listen to those names, it's insane. It's gonna be Chip Carry there instead of Aaron Goldsmith, the Braves TV announcer. It sounds like he's going to go to Saint Louis as well. Good for him on getting that job. I'm glad Aaron's staying. 00:02:38 Speaker 3: You said it. He's very into the numbers, so he understands that there are new school fans watching. He wants to educate fans that maybe don't understand the analytics side of baseball as much, which is awesome, awesome, and we try to do that a little bit here on this podcast because most people like us believe it's time for the game to progress forward and everybody understands this stuff. But more importantly than that, he's an e listen. He's very personable. Like you said, he's funny, but he knows the right times to pick his spots to fill in some humor. It like, he is really really a well crafted broadcaster. As two people who aspire to be broadcasters like we do. You know, he's a guy that you can listen to and take a lot from himcause he does so many things. 00:03:22 Speaker 1: Well, he had really big shoes to fill. He was filling Dave Kneehouse's shoes, right, And you think about it, the Mariners had some shuffle in that booth over a couple of years where they're trying to find Dave's replacement and they're really struggling, and they took a chance on this super young kid to come out. He was twenty nine at the time, Lyle, and I I'm about to be twenty five here in a month and a half. Lyle's already twenty five. He's twenty nine when he took the Mariner's job, and it could be a bit overwhelming for a lot of people, but he really handled it like a pro. We're so happy he's staying with the Mariners and someone that we can aspire to be one day if they break right and meet the right people and get the right job. So it's we couldn't be more happy for Aaron that he's staying here. And like he said, this is home now. The Pacific Northwest is his home, his adopted home. Something that you know. He said, he loves Saint Louis, but he feels like being here is the right spot. 00:04:18 Speaker 3: Hey, you know who else is staying home? Ardy Mourinhos. 00:04:25 Speaker 4: That is another one. 00:04:26 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, like you you want to talk about like we were so. 00:04:33 Speaker 1: We were so disappointed when we saw that the Angels were going to be for sale. The worst case scenario is another Steve Cohen buying the Angels and the Mariners. And we disagree on their money spending, how much they actually make, how they operate. 00:04:50 Speaker 2: But if you have someone who's actually willing to spend a. 00:04:52 Speaker 1: Boatload of money, and you have let's say safely, you'd have the Astros, Angels, and Rangers all significantly outspending you in your own division. That's an issue when it comes to long term winning and retaining employees, retaining players, upgrading ballpark, all all those sorts of things. That's an issue, but not an issue with ARTI moreno staying uh. 00:05:19 Speaker 3: I mean, this has been a phenomenal week for M's fans. We find you find out Aaron Goldsmith's saying so the broadcast booth stays intact. Everybody loves Goldie. And then you find out the Angels will remain the Angels. They're not gonna get Joe lakeup. Who's with the Warriors. They're not gonna go get another Steve Cohen. No, they're They're staying with Artie Mourinhos. So if you're a Mariners fan and hoping for more mediocrity for the Angels, the odds of that probably just. 00:05:46 Speaker 1: Went up, and I think show Hey is now guaranteed to not stay. He sees that, it's like, no, I'm good. 00:05:58 Speaker 3: Exactly will he come to Seattle in twenty twenty four? That's TBD. We didn't get into a whole lot of show Hey talk with Jordan Schusterman our interview today, but we did talk just about all things Mariners regarding the off season looking forward to twenty twenty three. He was our interview for today's show, and he was awesome. I Mean, it felt so much different than some of your typical interviews. I Mean we were sitting there and in the most basic sense of the term, basically just shooting the shit about the Mariners and how they're going to look in twenty three and what they've done so far. It was really cool because we just sat and talked with them and we all kind of got our thoughts out and where we kind of viewed this team going. 00:06:40 Speaker 1: He's kind of the he is the person where I have a whole page of notes, mariners, things I want to talk about. I didn't look at him once, So it's that kind of interview. Those are always the best kinds of interviews. You're seeing the person face to face and it just flows. There's no struggle, there's no issue, excuse me at all, and that's how it felt with Jordan. We know him and Jake Mince's partner at SESS, but his family barbecue are some of the best personalities in baseball, and we're really happy that Jordan was able to spend some time and talk to us and really get to see that personality. I personally haven't been able to meet Jordan in person. Briefly met both of them, Me and you were both together at this time at the twenty nineteen Winter meetings, but not for any extended period of time. You've gotten to talk to Jordan Moore, and I'm glad you were able to make the connection so we could talk to him here on the show today. 00:07:29 Speaker 2: It was really a treat. 00:07:30 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was awesome. I was broadcasting this past year for the Dayton Dragons, who are the High A affiliate of the Reds. He was at a game this past year. We got to talking. We were both mari and his fans, so we kind of hit it off with a lot of different things that we could kind of chat about because we're both die hard fans of the team, and it was really cool. He's exactly the way he seems on Twitter or when you listen to his podcast or see some of his video content. It's pretty cool. Sess. But his family barbecue, they've been a Mountain Rushmore baseball Twitter account really since we were in high school, and they just continue to grow. And to get to talk to him about the Mariners because he's a huge Mariner fan, it was pretty cool. Let's not keep you waiting on that any longer. Let's get to our interview with cesspit his family Barbecues. Jordan Schusterman. We welcome on Jordan Schusterman to the Marine Layer Podcast. Jordan's an analyst, an MLB analyst for Fox Sports. He helps run one of the most popular baseball accounts on Twitter, Cesspata, his family barbecue, and he's a noted Mariner fan. Jordan, thanks so much for hopping on with us. This is awesome. 00:08:36 Speaker 4: Thank you guys for the invite. I love being a part of the Mariners fan community. I feel very fortunate to be welcomed in as a someone with zero Seattle ties, but I have a team that I've cheered for passionately for over ten years now. So yeah, I'm excited to talk baut Man. This is spring training's right around the corner. I'm trying to figure out if I'm gonna be getting down to Peoria this year, but yeah, I'm just excited. This is a fun time, a fun time of the year. 00:09:05 Speaker 3: So, Jordan, when we talked about having you on, you were saying, and even before the show, you were saying, I have so many thoughts about the Mariners these days, and I just need a place to get them out. So we're more than happy. We're more than happy to let you do it. I was actually hoping to ask you a little bit though, before we get into that number one, with how you've kind of grown and you're you're in Jake's sets but his family barbecue, Twitter account and world has kind of grown. How did you guys started up and how did you guys find yourselves continuing to progress over time? 00:09:40 Speaker 4: Yeah, so I mean it was it was ten years ago. It was really crazy, I guess a little more than ten years ago. Our our blog adversary for if we want to call it that, when we started the actual website was December twenty twelve, when during our senior year of high school. And really what it was was Jake and I were just the only people in our kind of respective high school friend group that like really liked baseball, you know, like there were some casual fans here and there, but like the real true dorks who and honestly the name we always cite, which has become relevant now and I actually just wrote it on for Fox's Juricks and Profar who at the time was like a really you know, huge prospect, and like that's the kind of guy like prospects and minor league stuff. That's the kind of stuff you kind of you really gotta like baseball to like get into that stuff, especially at the time. It's a little more common now, certainly with fantasy baseball and you know, prospects a little bit more mainstream, but even ten years ago, it definitely took a little bit more digging and more obsession with the game, and Jake and I shared that. So we started the goofy website with the nickname and background inside joke that we didn't think we'd have to explain to anybody, and then we just kind of wrote it out we the Twitter. I think we started I guess in March of twenty thirteen, and then it's really just been a place for us to share our thoughts and how much we love the sport. And we've been lucky enough to kind of carry that on into a career and work at a couple different places, do a couple of different podcasts, and now we're I mean, this is we're gearing up for probably our busiest season ever, which is super exciting. But we're now doing a ton of college baseball stuff in my only baseball and I'm a big draft guy. So we're really lucky to do what we do. And it's just a matter of of of kind of parlaying the amount of obsession we have for it and kind of sharing that and finding the people to kind of share that with. So that's that's the long and short of it. 00:11:33 Speaker 1: So then, how did you choose the Mariners from someone who grow up about as far away as possible from them, a franchise that has an entire six part documentary on secret base of how rummy they are. Yeah, you decide, Yeah, that is the one I'm choosing. 00:11:49 Speaker 4: Great, that's a great question because because of exactly what you're describing, right, why would I opt in to this? You know, I didn't, not to be fair, So I grew up in the DC area, and so I didn't really have a team when I was really little. I was Sammy Soso is my favorite player for sure. But the Nationals showed up when I was ten, but they sucked and they were really lame. They were really there was really nothing to get excited about with the Nationals. Now fast forward and I was a huge my family's Nats fans, and I was reading for them like crazy and twenty nineteen and I still my brother's a huge Gnats fan, so still kind of had that later on, But for me it was it was Felix and I didn't really have a team in high school, and it was a combination of Felix Lookout Landing reading Jeff Sullivan Lookout Landing, and when I first got ONBTV. I love staying up for the late night games. I love staying up for West Coast games like that. I know some people. It's so funny now when like the Mets go on a West Coast road trip and just all of Mets fans are just like complaining about staying up. I'm like, I love this. I don't know anything different, Like I love a ten PM first pitch like that is all like, that's that's those are the games I want to watch. Could say, well, why wouldn't you just a Dodgers fan, right, and that would have been a reasonable assumption, But it was really Felix was just my favorite pitcher by far, and you know, that Perfect Game really really kind of kind of cemented it in twenty twelve. It's a very I'd say, that's a big part of it. And then yeah, I guess, I guess you can't cause it's a little you got my Kate my k flag stuff up there with Pablo Sanchez, and then here to the side, here we got Cesspitus and then there's a Felix Perfect Game. There's a unisky bet in court bibblehead right there. So I guess if you're listening to the pod, you can't see this. But the point is I'm showing my Mariners fandom credentials. But point being yeah, and then it was just like but also part of me being just like a huge baseball dorc like them being so terrible was like almost part of the alert because you know, at that point, the drought's only ten years old, so what I wasn't really thinking about it as a drought, but it was like, oh, like, if this team ever gets good, it will be really cool, you know, like that is something I did kind of feel. But at the same time, there was so dysfunctional at that point front office wise. Then they signed to know, like that was like just a crazy like thing to happen early on in my fandom. And then obviously we you know, have to recap least ten years. But but it was for me. Of course, I wasn't born into it. I don't have family long history, you know. I don't like like I love each yer row in kendridfor Junior too, like duh, right, like who doesn't. But that's not why I'm a Mariners fan, right, Like, it's really Felix. And then I just kind of kind of picked him and I rolled with it and I've been and and it paid off. Man, Like last year was was incredible. I was at the cal rally game. Obviously, as Lyle knows, he was sitting Nick a couple of sections over because I ran into him there, and yeah, I mean it's it's the rest is history. So I couldn't be more excited to still be be a fan of the team and whatever is coming next. 00:14:46 Speaker 3: I gotta share one quick story with you before we hop into more Mariners talk, because you mentioned Sammy seas is your favorite was your favorite player growing up, which I didn't know. He was my favorite player too when I was a young kid. And here's a little look into some four year old, five year old logic back in the day of mine when I found out Sammy Sosa, Sammy Sosa corked his bat back in the day, I took some of my parents wine corks, like taped it to a whippleball bat that we had and took it out to the backyard because I thought, oh, I could start getting more home runs if I just do that. Because I love Sammy Sosa. 00:15:18 Speaker 4: Everyone else's like, that's not cool. The brother rules. You're like, no, that's that's great. It's cool. I'll do whatever he does. I have I don't know where it is. I have like a like a really nineties, like Sammy Sosa hat, I don't know where it. 00:15:32 Speaker 2: Is all find it just all gobbed up in hind borrow. 00:15:35 Speaker 4: No it's not not in the that's that's funny. No, it's like it's just the style of it is like very like nineties dad hat like it literally like it's like I don't know, I'll describe it. Whatever. Point is. I love Sammy Sosa and I know that, like if you followed us for a while, you know that we've like, you know, revered Barry Bonds in terms of a just like a whatever steroids are not just like one of the best players ever, and like that's true and I stand by all that. But the truth is, like five Jordan, it was ALMOSTO so like that was that was the guy for me. 00:16:06 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was the same way. Well as we dive into some Mariners specific talk here, because as you said, you've got a lot that you want to kind of explain and get off your chest. So I'll kind of just start it off with this and leave it open ended to you and then we can kind of go from there. Are you satisfied as we sit here today on January twenty fourth, with what the Mariners have done so far this offseason, because that's been a big topic in the Mariners world. 00:16:33 Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean the thing is is, like I talked, I mentioned this before, so like I went on a couple of pods earlier in the offseason and it was like kind of in the middle, we had the task of trade and then it was like, Okay, well there's gonna be more moves coming, so we got to be patient. We don't want to be not even from the standpoint of like you know, just like trying to defend the front office, but just from the standpoint of, like, I mean, there is a lot of off season left, and I think that and I know Depoto's made this exact point, but I do think that it is fair from the standpoint of the sequencing of the offseason is and just transactions in general just goes a long way into how we react to these things, right, I mean, there's a version of these last six months where it's all the same moves, except like they extended Julio last week and we are just like over the moon that they extended Julio over the offseason, but instead because that came during the year, you know, Castio extension too, that come during the season like those are huge moves and that doesn't make the twenty twenty three team better. And I totally recognize that, and we can get it too this offseason in the additions, you know, it's not like they haven't done some real things that have been really really exciting moves for the organization to make. And I think you'd still say the same thing about the Tioskar's trade in general, like that happens so fast that we just kind of moved on and it was like, all right, oh, woll okay Taoskar and In is like great, and then it's like, okay, now now we kind of move on from that. And then as the longer we wait, and the same thing kind of with the Wong deal, it was like, oh, really, you're just not gonna do anything in the winter Beats, You're not gonna spend any money on any other free agent hitters, and so then what you kind of end up with is to me, if they don't add anybody else, I would give this offseason a be because I do think that to just simplify it and be like all they did was replace Hanneger and Fraser with ta Oscar and Wong and then you know, added some bit pieces around that. I think thea Oscar is really really, really good, And as far as certainty goes compared to Hanneger, I think definitely an upgrade. I love Mitch just as much as the next guy, but as far as like what we definitely think we are getting in twenty twenty three, I think that's a clear upgrade. And I think you could say the same thing about Wong compared to Fraser. And I know he doesn't hit the ball as hard as you know some of the other top name, but like I think that that those are both upgrades. And then beyond that, I think, you know, sure we all were hoping for a bigger name, you know, maybe for the outfield to go with Kalmaker or or at DH And once you kind of accepted that it wasn't gonna happen, certainly up the middle, once you kind of accepted that, you know, the shortstops or any of those guys were gonna sign, I was like, all right, Like Pollock is not not overjoyed, but like it makes a lot of sense, you know, it does make a lot of sense, and it also is kind of a reminder that like they believe in Kelnick, and this season is going to depend a lot on how he does. Whether they had made a move or not right like they like they they could have, They could have just push him back to Triple A and put the but like I think clearly they believe in him. They might be wrong, right, and we'll find out about that, I think a couple of months into this here, but I'm I'm mostly satisfied. It looks bad because you see the spending that went on in the rest of the division, and I totally get that, and that is worth criticizing. I do. I do agree. At the same time, I think to say they didn't get better, I think is wrong. I think they did get better, and I think that they have a pretty pretty strong team going into next season with with a lot of real competition as well. 00:19:59 Speaker 1: Jordan, what are your thoughts on these long term contracts. Are you a fan of a team like the Mariners signing a ten year contract like they did with Robinson Cano. 00:20:07 Speaker 4: Yeah, so the Cano deal I was just kind of reflecting on earlier today because we're working on some you know, O Tani stuff for Fox and thinking about, oh, the Mariners going after a Tani I don't really want to talk about that because I just I mean, it's like sure, like, oh, the Mariners are interested in No Tani Like duh, Like so is every team like that doesn't do like that is like not news to me. So like like there was some report that was like Padres are going to go all in on time. It's like, okay, what is that? Who cares? Like, Yes, he's the best player in the world. Like, obviously all the teams are going to want to sign him, and I'm sure Depoto would like to get him. Again, I'm sure they will try. Whatever that means as far as giving a giant contract like that. I mean again, it's like the obvious first responses is not your money. So yeah, I don't care to say, right, that's what you say. But but so it's it's but here's the balance, right, It's like, on one hand, it's not ima you should worry about it. Right, Obviously, I don't care what the hell is going to happen with him age thirty eight because I want him here now. And that's how free agency works, right. If you want to sign Trey Turner and you want to sign sanderd Bogart's and you want to sign Judge or whoever. It's like, oh oh no, age thirty, It's like, okay, well do you want them on your team now or not? Like that's how free agency works, right, And obviously this Depoto regime has said, no, it's not worth to hand out those deals. I mean, the Robbie Ray contract in retrospect honestly looks so reasonable, like and even even with this season, which wasn't that good, it looks totally fine for someone who's gonna, you know, give you thirty starts a year. So as for like the super mega contracts, I like the Cano one. I mean again, it's hard to imagine them them doing anything like that, and I think that's why you see them do it with one of their own and Julio. But I look, that's just how free agency works. Like it's you can't. You can't. You can't have it both ways. You can't. There's no free agency deal where you're going to be like, yes, that is perfectly reasonable, Like that's not the market we're playing it anymore. Like most of the deals, it's gonna be a lot of money. And then that's what these guys deserve and players got to get their their pay some way, because getting not getting freigency until six years is is not exactly the best system. 00:22:06 Speaker 1: Was there a guy you think they should have signed for the contracts they got. 00:22:11 Speaker 4: Hmmm, that's a good question. I Yeah, so that's the thing, right, It's so easy to be like, oh, that's all it costs, Well, they just should have done that, And I I totally understand that temptation. I felt that for a few minutes with Brandon Drury. Admittedly that was one where it was like that seems like an easy deal, But you just have to remember there's so many things that go into this beyond the money that if it's close, especially for those smaller deals, it's like I just not wanted to come here, Like that's just a thing that like free agency, you just don't know. There's so many things that go into how much. Yes, of course the money talks, but like it's it's not as simple as saying like, oh, well they just should have given him that deal. They should have matched that right. So but I but to answer your question, I'm not trying to avoid it, like I mean, yeah, I would say the Drury one stands out as one that, like I think made a lot of sense, even if he was more of a utility guy, like I think I do felt like he could have been super helpful. But I think the upside with Pollock, especially when your deal is not that different. So I'm not I'm not too too worked up about that. But in terms of like the bigger ones, I mean, it's just so hard to say, like I don't know, I love Xander Bogarts, Like I think that would be sweet, but like I don't know, like sure, yeah, of course I love. I mean, he was the one when I was still you know, crazy enough to think they were going to sign one. I was like, Bogrets was the one I would have wanted, But I don't know. It's it's like Nemo, like I wouldn't. No, I don't think I would have done the Nimo one. So but I don't know. But it's it's it's hard in retrospect. I've cooled down, right, because it's in the moment when you're going after and you're pursuing these guys, it's like, oh, God, like, oh, they should have matched the Hanniger one, they should have done this. I don't really at this point, I'm like, not not as excited about it all those things. 00:24:01 Speaker 1: For me, the Josh Bell one is looking better and better by the day, especially looking at the first base step. Well, go ahead, Sorry, I just want to get that in there. 00:24:08 Speaker 2: Well. 00:24:09 Speaker 3: I was interested to hear why you were out on Nemo, because it's funny you say that I was banging the drum for them all off season and TJ knows that. My theory on it was, I know he gets injured a lot, but he came off a five win season. He walks at such a great rate. He just felt like a perfect leadoff hitter. You could slide Julio to two. And I thought he was going to get something like five years for one hundred and five to one hundred and ten. When I saw he was getting seven years to go back to the team he grown up with, I was like, Okay, that's out of the Mariners price range, but I really want. 00:24:38 Speaker 4: Eight eight years eight eight eight years. Yeah. So no, but now again, like arguing over the seven, say, like's the what's the difference? I agree with you at the start of the off season. 00:24:48 Speaker 1: No. 00:24:48 Speaker 4: No, To be clear, this isn't me hating on Neimo because I think I was like, I'd rather have him than Swanson and like that that was what an interesting in comparison, And I know they ended up getting pretty similar contracts, but I don't know I agree with you, Like maybe I just was too accepting of the reality of them not giving on a big free agent contract right now and just accepted it wasn't really possible. But like, yeah, I thought about Ben and Tendee, right, Like the Ben and Tendee contract looks kind of reasonable, but you have to kind of think about what they believe in and and with the cuntent question, like it just doesn't seem like they wanted to commit big time to a long term outfielder. It just didn't seem that way. And maybe that's a mistake. And maybe because those were the guys that were available, that those those should be the floor raizers and the ceiling raizers that they should have gone after. But we'll see, we'll see it's a big bet because you know, Kellen's been so bad, but we'll see how We'll see how it works. 00:25:51 Speaker 3: Do you have a stance on him these days? Because it's funny here sitting here talking about kell Neck and how he's going to get some real playing time. TJ knows this the way you guys have had your Mike'sanino as good slogan forever. Now that's me with Hellenic Like, I think I defend him harder than anybody on this planet. So I'm just like hoping and praying that he pans out to be everything that we originally once thought he can be. But I'm always curious to hear what. 00:26:15 Speaker 4: Other people thoughts are on him. Yeah, I mean everything that you hope and dreamed. I maybe not everything, Yeah, I mean it's it's so it's really hard because with him, you have such an extreme case on so many levels, where on one hand you say you can point and say, he's still this young, he still didn't play that many minor league games, which brings up the whole reason why why were we expecting that much in the first place. Right at the same time, there's all the other evidence that says, if you're this bad for this long, which is again not a huge sample but still a sizeable sample, if you're this bad, that doesn't mean you are never going to be a big leaguer. It's just there's going to be a limit on how much of a contribute you can be. Now clearly they've at least identified that he should not be facing with standed pitchers anytime soon. And again there's a long career ahead of him. Maybe he figures it out eventually. The struggles with offspeed stuff was just so maddening, and like the lack of adjustments there is what is the what is most troubling for me. And it doesn't mean it dooms him as a big leaguer. It just means he is going to have to play a very specific role that I think he can develop and do, which is the strong side of the platoon that is a good outfielder like that should still be a good player. But yeah, and again that's the thing, like clearly they still believe in him enough to have him be a big part of this team this year and get a full season's worth of at bats again right at the same time, like he's gonna be batting seventh or eighth, right, Like, I that's how and that's how should be, right, I mean, and finding this balance here of he had so much pressure and this dude, I mean, it's also clearly so mental with him on top of like the physical red flags in terms of just how he's been and and the off speed stuff like, but with him, it's like with all the pressure that he puts on himself, let alone how much was already on him to begin with, you can tell, right, And he's had these stretches where he started to figure it out. And like even dude, like when I was there at the end of the season last year, like I get there, he has the two homers before the end of the season, right that last week against Texas, right it was the two owners in that Texas game, and I was like, all right, great, and then basically after that he is like one hit the rest of the way, including the postseason, right, Like it was just it was ugly, you know, like these and you know, get to the postseason and the pictures know exactly how to how to exploit you whatever. So that's kind of where I'm at. I'm I'm I'm done feeling too strongly in one way or the other with him, Like I don't I'm not all the way out. But the other thing you have to remember, and I don't know how much trade talk you want to talk about or Reynolds or whatever, it's just like everyone the people that are trying to both believe in him and then throw him into any trade package. Is like there's a good number of teams that think he's just not good, right, Like that's just a fact, And so you don't know which teams those are. That doesn't mean they at all thirty teams. I'm sure there are teams that would harpily take a flyer on him. But and we know that they were willing to trade him last deadline for sure. But again, there's a reason he's still on the team. It's a combination of the team like them wanted to trade him, but not finding what they want back for him. Is a sign of like we still value him, We're willing to give up give him up, but like we're not giving him up for nothing because we don't want that. And part of that is like not wanting to kind of take the l on that trade. And I get that, but at the same time, I'm just I'm not waiting around anymore for the big upside. At the same time, he doesn't need to be the best player on the team. That's the beauty of Julio and that's the beauty of the depth that they have created, is that he should be able to hit seventh or eighth and just kind of do his thing. 00:30:20 Speaker 1: I feel kind of bad for him because, on one hand, he was forced into a terrible spot on a crummy right, into a crummy lineup, with all the pressure in the world on him. Number three prospect when he came up. The other top prospect in the system just so happens to be an outfielder in two years will probably be the best player in all of baseball. 00:30:41 Speaker 2: While he's now. 00:30:42 Speaker 1: Relegated essentially, like he said, to platoon duty and still hasn't figured it out, almost not two full seasons into the big leagues, but parts. 00:30:52 Speaker 2: Of two seasons. 00:30:53 Speaker 1: And it's frustrating for him and frustrating for us too, because we have really just so high expectations for him, and totally you trade for him, it's like he's the he's the drought ender. 00:31:07 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what we thought, and that's what we like. 00:31:09 Speaker 4: In twenty one. 00:31:10 Speaker 1: He's he's moving up, he's in he's in Double A at nineteen years old, and he's crushing the ball and thinking all of this and this and that, and then he gets one COVID offseason in Tacoma, facing BP pitching, knocking a few balls over the wall, and then okay, it's like here we go. 00:31:27 Speaker 4: Right, It's like he has the big six games in Tacoma to start twenty twenty one, and it's like, oh, he's ready. It's like okay, I mean, that's the thing. This is the thing like retrospecting. I remember at the time being like, we cannot be shocked if this guy, like he really is not played that much minor league baseball. Like it's like, he's obviously talented, but this is a huge jump. And when you factor in the COVID season, it's miss It's like it was a it was an insane amount of pressure to put on him, combined with the like it's like, yes, they were manipulating a service time. But that's a Kevin Mather problem because they that was the whole thing. They could have had a very reasonable player development argument to keep him a triple A for multiple months. Instead they were like, we are manipulating a service time. I was like, all right, well, okay, well good, good way to handle that. So so he's just been that's that's the tough thing. At the same time, there are other teams that would say, you know, screw you, you're going back to Triple A. You have a one seventy eight batting average or whatever it is, right and instead they still believe in it right enough to even let him get however many play appearance is going to be this year, And that's the thing, because like here's here, want to have a tough conversation. What if he's just still hitting one seventy through through a month and a half, Like that's where you start to And I know that Pollock, you know, has shown as recently twenty twenty one could be a full time outfielder, and I'm sure that's part of it too, Right at the same time, like that's where you start to get worried. Now at the same time, you look at the lineup again, he'll be batting eighth or ninth. That doesn't mean it sinks your season in, but you are still running that risk in terms of him as a player, as an asset, as just in general. That we'll just see. We'll just have to see. And I hope, I hope that this year. I literally, like I remember so vividly. I don't know if it was his last step bat or whatever in the post he's against Houston. I'm sure he went over in that in that game, Like the rest of the team did, but I was just like, dude, literally should only seek her balls the entire offseason. He should not see a fastball in the in the cage. It should just be off speed machine for four months straight. Because it was so maddening watching it, and it's it's stupid. Baseball's really hard. This is not saying, oh I could do that, Like, I know it's hard, I get it, but when it's that obvious what the weakness is, it's like, please, just that's all you should be focusing on. So whatever, I'm pulling for him because I do. I do think he wants to be a part of the team and then wants to be contributor. But we'll see how it pans out. 00:33:59 Speaker 3: Well, we're still talking about the outfield here too, and I'm with you that the Taoscar trade was great for what Pollack can do in his role was a really good sign. The only thing we've kind of sat here and talked about a little bit is a year from now. Unless they extend Taoscar at some point this year, they're going to be right back at the drawing board. Because, especially to kind of bounce off our last conversation, if kel Nick does not pan out this year, you have one solidified outfielder. So that's one place where I've been a little nervous. I don't know if you have any nerves or your own feelings about how they've approached that. 00:34:32 Speaker 4: Totally fair and yeah, it's it's really hard to tell with tai Oscar if they view him as also a trade and extend candidate the way they did with Castillo, and you know, we'll see with that. I would imagine that that is not something Hernandez is going to do, because I just wrote about this for Fox next off seasons. Free agency class is terrible after Otani partic on the position player side, and if you're looking especially in the outfield, I mean there's basically so again you've got like a selection of like upside guys like Bellinger and Gallo and like Harrison Bait, like guys who could have big years but also could just totally suck and just aren't really relevant. So if you're looking at free agency, that's like not if you're looking for free agency next year, it's not gonna happen. So that's that goes back to the Nemo question and the Ben Attendee question is like are those outfielders worth committing to in a significant way, or like Depoto has done, he will just swing a trade for someone we're not even thinking of a year from now, right, let alone now if he's if he's still trying to do that, And yeah, that's totally fair, right, I Mean the thing we have to remember, and this this extends to literally the entire conversation about the team, is something that TJ just alluded to is that when you have one of the best players in the game, it kind of covers up a lot of other stuff, unless you're the Angels. But it's truly, right, like I don't care that much about the corner outfield when you have Julio it matters. Doesn't mean you can just put replace, replace, replace other players out there, but like it he he kind of kind of can carry in more ways than one, right, And that's that's that was true last year, right, Like when he's this good, yes, this extens to every part of the team. Right, when he's this good, I don't care about who's batting seventh and eighth this much because he's batting six hundred times, you know, like that truly, it's like it's and that's not something we we have been able to say about any Mariner's team since I guess Ken Grivir. I mean like like they've had good they've had good offenses with Seeger and with Cano and Cruz, right, but like that's not a thing that that we've been able to say or any teams get able to say. And so that is what kind of makes the whole lineup just look better because you just remember how often he's gonna hit, and that extends to just the long term outlook of the outfield in my opinion. But it's a great question because I I don't know, because at the same time, you could say, yeah, but they were gonna be in this issue anyway. It's not like Hannager is like a long term solution either in my opinion, right, certainly as an outfielder. I mean, look, love the guy, absolute legend, one of my favorite Mariners. Duh. Like, don't need a caveat all that he is not a good outfielder anymore. Like I just that's he's just I understand, So I don't blame him. He's send all these horrible injuries and he's this is not the same outfielder that's fine, but you know, and ta Oscar same thing. I mean, he defensively's not really gonna give you that much, but maybe he's the answer. But if I'm him, I mean, I'm going I'm hitting free agency as soon as I can. Even if he does love it in Seattle and hasn't, maybe they blow him away. Like you could say the same thing about Castillo. But I do think that for Castillo, there's the pitching free agent market is actually quite deep coming up, and I'm glad that the Mariners aren't really gonna have to think about that that much, which is pretty sweet. Uh And I think a huge part of why they're in such a strong position moving forward. But that's kind of where I'm on the outfield, Like I don't know, and it's like Kid Marlow and Tremmell. Who knows what those guys and if there's someone else that that kind of pops up not exactly counting on, you know, the zach Delochis of the world to you know, blow us away. But uh so, yeah, it's a good question, and I would just to that, I would say, doesn't matter because of Julio. 00:38:29 Speaker 1: Jerry's making me wins a little bit when he says that he wants Trammel and. 00:38:36 Speaker 4: Marlow. 00:38:37 Speaker 1: Did you just say, yeah, Marlow, Marlow to be to be contributors on this team wink. Yeah, I mean if you're trying to win, like not if you're trying to win ninety five games. 00:38:47 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I I feel that. Yeah, I I don't know, because to me, that's super fair and to me, like this team is just gonna go as far as this possibly tops re rotation is going to go, right, right, so right, So, like we saw far they could get last year while also like barely hitting besides Julio, Like, they were pretty damn good while having an extremely uneven offense, and so I think they can kind of do that again. But no, it's a fair pertique totally. I hear you. 00:39:21 Speaker 1: Speaking of pitching, we could just start unless you had something else to add at the hitting there. 00:39:25 Speaker 3: Low, Yeah, no, I was I was actually going to transition over to pitching here in a second, but I was just going to quickly add that. I think that's what people forget sometimes when everybody gets so caught up in the payroll thing. You just mentioned that the Mariners had a pretty good run in the playoffs this past year. Obviously they were in all three of those Houston games. It's easy to forget that the Dodgers have one title in the last decade, where it seems like when you get to the postseason, it's all about who's hot. If the Mariners escape Houston, I know, it's just about who gets hot at the right time. 00:39:58 Speaker 4: Well, it's not even just that, Like we are both so lucky, and also it was like the longest however many days of our lives, we got the whole frickin' postseason experience. Man Like, after however many years, those games were so amazing and so just so hard to watch in a great, beautiful way that like now you understand, right, you understand what you're up against. You understand how good the best teams in baseball are, obviously Houston, but even Toronto. Like it's just it's exactly what you said, and it's all about being in position to get into the postseason. Not that they shouldn't try to catch Houston, and I get that too. At the same time, I mean, like the Ashers are so far ahead of everybody that, like, you do what they did last year and then beat them in a series. You know, you're gonna have to go through the astras at some point, and so I think that's gonna be a big part of it. And you know, also now with the more balanced schedule, you're playing fewer games in division, you gotta you kind of you kind of gotta do the best with playing the games against crappier teams and other divisions or other league even that you haven't played as much. So that'll be an interesting thing to watch too. But anyway, but but yeah, it's it's like there's no team you could possibly build where that is World Series guaranteed. I mean, Nash's got as close as you can get, and there they basically did it. But but I guess you could say the Dodge in twenty twenty also even in the short season. But yeah, I think, of course we can always say they should spend more, and I think that's the fair critique because yeah, they are still not in the top ten or twelve even a payroll, and coming off that season, you would you would hope they would be. But I think that had more to do is just as much to do with what they kind of saw is buying opportunities compared to compared to just like being cheap. 00:41:44 Speaker 1: I think we could transition over to pitching now. I've been waiting to just say this the whole show. Do you just want to stand number one Matt brash fan, just want to stand up and shout from the mountaintop for Maddy Bee's cutter. 00:41:57 Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yes, no, I saw that. Yeah, I mean here, here, here, here. I'm so my brash takes are kind of all over the place because I would trade him for Brian Reylds tomorrow. But but not because I don't think he's awesome. It's more how much I believe in kind of the rest of the group. I think Matt Brashkin just be one of the best relievers in baseball this year immediately, and I hope that that's what he is. And I know we've seen back and forth between he's going to stay as a starter. He wants to be a starter. He's not happy to be in the bullpen. I think by the end of last year he kind of understood how good he could be there, and I think that sounds like that is finally going to happen. He was amazing, right, I mean, he's he's got some of the best stuff in the world, full stop. And you could say, oh, well, imagine as a starter. It's fine. There are there are times when I would be desperate to force him into the rotation. But he can make this team stronger by giving them what he can out of the pen in the seventh and the eighth and the seventh and the eighth. Right like that, he is a especially now like they're there. Some of the best teams have pictures like this that can be really, really, really special. So I say that about Reynolds just because he is there, like he is the guy that I would assume. Now it could be wrong, right like, there are other teams to say, oh, he's just a reliever, that's not worth much, But if he could be the headliner, I would do that in a second before trading Gilbert or Kirby. So again, we'd have to talk about Bran Reynolds because don't think it's gonna happen, but at least not now before opening day. But buddy, I love Brash. He's he is And that was also as you remember is Lyle like the Raleigh game like that, a huge part of that game was Brash. I don't think he struck out the side, but sure of that strikeout to send it to the bottom of the ninth was like as memorable as the Homer, Like I was like that was such a big part of it too. So yeah, he's he's awesome, and I'm just excited to see him in whatever whatever form that is. 00:43:57 Speaker 3: To see Brash and Munos for another full you're in that both ten, eight and nine or whatever situation. Scott Service wants to mix them in with that. That is good. 00:44:06 Speaker 4: This is the This is the other thing when we're talking about, oh, how do they get better, it's the same team. Well, it's a whole year of Luis Castillo, it's a whole year of Matt Brash as this version of Matt Brash, right, and you know you're not guaranteed to have the exact same reforms, especially from relievers, but like those are big pieces, man, Like those are things that like, look, Kirby, I mean Kirby, Like how good Kirby was at the end, and like, like it's just there's there's upside that's already on the roster that I don't think is being talked about enough. And that's that's why I'm so excited for the season. Right, of course, we all every team wants their team to add more. That's not uncommon, right, That's just how the office season works, because we're all cold and tired and bored of, you know, hearing about people's fantasy football teams, and so we just want our baseball team to sign people. So I get it. I totally get it. But I you know, that's That's what I'm saying, is I think that there's there is more upside that's already on the roster that we should still be just as excited about. 00:45:08 Speaker 1: Which picture are you most excited to see besides Matt Brash? 00:45:12 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean Kirby. I mean Kirby just like, think about where we last left off with him, right, and I know they played another ten innings and they couldn't get a single goddamn hit, let alone, base, whatever, run, whatever. But no, I mean Kirby is absolutely the top of the list. I don't even think it's especially close. But I love Cassio so much, like he's always one of my favorite pictures. So I still feel so lucky that he's he's on the team, and just seeing him probably start opening day, I would imagine, Yeah, I would think so he was. If you're going game one of the postseason I guess you kind of take that title away from from Robbie or any of those guys. 00:45:57 Speaker 1: You know. 00:45:57 Speaker 3: I'm glad you brought up Katie a little bit because I wanted to call some them back with you. The way you and I met was I was broadcasting games this past year for the Dayton Dragons. You were in a game. We sat and talked for a little bit, and we were talking Mariners because we found out the two of us were both fans of the MS. As we're sitting there watching Noel Vi Martes, a freshly admitted member of the Reds organization, we're talking about the Castillo trade. I remember saying to you because we're talking about potential extensions at some point, and I mentioned Castillo. I think I remember you saying something along the lines up, I don't really love the idea of giving any picture an extension. But now that we fast forward and they've done it, has your opinion changed on that? 00:46:35 Speaker 1: Uh? 00:46:36 Speaker 4: Yes and no, yes in that I just love Luis Castillo so much and I hope he's on the Mariners for as long as possible. So I'm glad that's true. Like I'm glad I'm just not even thinking about him being on another team already this year, where like in fields, the clock is ticking. But I stand by the sentiment just because pictures are terrifying and I did there. You know, that's just the reality, right, like anything like so so, but I'm I'm I feel great about it, you know, I'm it's just And also again, like look at the contract, it's like totally normal. Like again, you could again you could alwait, like DJ right, you could say it doesn't matter, not my money, it doesn't matter. The difference between them paying them one hundred million versus three hundred million is essentially irrelevant to me. And you could make that argument that's fine. But as far as if we're just if we're operating in the world of this deal, if they're only paying him this much means they should be able to spend this much on this much, then like it looks great, right, five for one hundred million, Like I mean, it's not even for one hundred six or hundred and twenty with the besting option, Like come on, the dude's the top twenty picture easily if not better than that. I mean, it's not it's not even close. So like that's that's a layup. So in that sense, market wise, it looks totally reasonable. But any picture, you just can't be surprised by any picture getting injured. And that's and that's the other thing about kind of putting all your eggs into that all the pitches are gonna stay healthy, because that's the other reality oflast season. If you're saying upside wise, is that, well, yes, there's more upside talent wise. I do believe that with Kirby, with Brash, with Julio even and and also Gilbert. I think, but boy, were they healthy on pitching wise for the most part, And so part of me wonders if that's why they're hanging on to Flexen and Marco. I still think they will trade Flexen before opening day, and I think that's more of ay to me. My my take on that is Flexen is not necessarily someone that teams are like going crazy to acquire. But when guys go down and spring he is ex he suddenly becomes extremely valuable to teams. And so that's why I think he kind of is going to be dangled in that sense. And you could argue that that's again that that depth is worthwhile to keep. But that's kind of my stance on that. And I don't know if I like that or not, but I understand it if it helps them, you know, get something else that they can need. But but yeah, so that's kind of kind of where I'm at, and that's kind of makes me but but I also still stand by it when I'm pretty sure I said when we were when we were watching elv Martes, it's like and that was before we watched Louis Castillo in the postseason, right right, It's like that's the whole damn point. Like I wish no Eli Martin the best I think was gonna be good, like all these but like, why are we doing any of this? Is so that the Mayors can be in the postseason and then like win a game. And that's why you get Luis Castillo as a whole point and for anyone like it's and I tweeted it exactly when it happened when they made the trade. Is that oh the report, that's like Rangers tried hard but came up short and so and so Yankees trying hard but they ended up with mantas Like this is why you give them that next guy? Because this is that's the whole point. That's the whole point. 00:49:47 Speaker 3: Could could you imagine could you imagine the Mariners Twitter world if the Rangers got Luis Castillo. 00:49:52 Speaker 4: Like we should be Montas instead, right or that? I mean the Rangers sucks, So it's not like that was going to make a difference for them, but like it if the Mariners had to ended up with Montas or Tyler Malley or whatever, like. 00:50:07 Speaker 3: A different ball game. Yeah. 00:50:09 Speaker 1: So anyway, it is funny because I'm scrolling on the top one hundred prospects the other day and I see Noelvi there at seventeen. I think he got a bump from where he was and I'm like, oh, okay, I always forget he's ranked that high as a prospect, even though he moved off of short stop. But here he's gonna he's probably gonna be a red this year. 00:50:26 Speaker 4: They I would bet against it because they have like seventeen shortstops now, which but also I would say Royo is going to be better than Marte. So I'll just I'll put that in there. I'll throw that and throw that, which I don't know if that makes it feel any better or worse, but I'm much more. I think I heard to Potos say this on another pod recently that like the trading Arroyo was like the hardest one he's he's had to do. Yeah, and that's super fair. 00:50:58 Speaker 2: We heard that too. 00:50:59 Speaker 1: We have a buddy who who was doing video down in Modesto and he was on that train he saw ed when every single days like this dude is a stud. 00:51:08 Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolute, I'm not even thinking of I mean again, I wish no heavid the best, but but again still don't care, doesn't matter. Like watching Louis Guess two against Toronto was like that was like a top you know, five Maritors game I've ever watched. Like that was just the coolest, even more than the I mean, the comeback was amazing. Like obviously these all these things are different cool for different reasons, but just like having someone like that that you can just give them ball and play all right, game's over cool sweet feel like two runs like that is oh man, that is just so freaking sweet. And then to see what Kirby did later like the same kind of thing. 00:51:45 Speaker 1: Just to go up against their best too, It's really amazing. Last thing for me, just set the bar here. We're gonna hold you to this the entire season. What's your prediction? What's gonna happen? 00:51:55 Speaker 4: Oh? Just full, full prediction? 00:51:57 Speaker 2: And yeah, what what do you How do you think this season shakes out? 00:52:01 Speaker 4: Oh boy, it's a little dude. January twenty fourth is a little early for season predictions, but I will because I like you guys, I'll get a season prediction. So let's see. So last year they won ninety games, correct, I believe that's the number of games that they won, So ninety and seventy two. You're expecting, you know, the Rangers to be better. I have no faith in the Angels. As are terrible, astros are amazing. I think they will win eighty eight games, and I think that they will have one of those wild card spots again. I think more likely again to be in that second or third spot than the first one. But I'm I'm still pretty optimistic, and I think that they will be aggressive again at the deadline for guys, whether it is Reynolds, whether it is other guys that we're not thinking about yet that could help. I think they got a good thing going and I understand the consternation about about how it looks compared to the rest of the division. So maybe it's a a little optimistic there to say, oh, well, they got better, but they're going to win fewer games. But I still just think that the Central, especially with Minnesota, should not be that bad and a least is just so good that it's going to be really hard to kind of hang in there in that wildcard race, let alone Houston. So that's kind of where I take away a couple wins there, but I still feel pretty good, feel pretty optimistic. I think there'll be a wildcard team again. And yeah, i'd put it right now at eighty six to eighty eight minutes. 00:53:48 Speaker 3: I don't know what the projections say, but yeah, I'll finish off with this with my last question, not a season projection, but we haven't dove into Julio that much somehow in these forty five minutes, I'll leave you with this, how much better can he get from his rookie year in year two? 00:54:06 Speaker 4: Oh? Man? I mean that's the thing, like you factor in, like there's two parts of Polio season that are that you have to remember about how good he was considering x if you look at if you basically just scrap April, he was like a top ten player in the league from May on right, maybe even higher than that, I think, So you just get rid of April you, I mean, he had some injuries along the way that you know, took away some playing time. Obviously at the end, as we know, he wasn't even playing for that that last soul chunk. And then you kind of realize that, like he was this good with really no like he was kind of up there just swinging. He wasn't really like like he's in the way that you're sure you could say the league could adjust him. Yes, that's true, the way that the pitch to him, but he was And by the way I feel this, I know this is like a going out of my way to praise another player. This is also how I feel about Michael Harris, because like, for him to be that good with never ever walking and just swinging like absolutely crazy to me. You could argue that says screams regression. To me, it says, oh well, once he starts actually dialing it in, I mean, watch out, like and there's no reason to kind of put any sort of feeling on Julio for all the obvious reasons that we all know as people who have watched him, but now it's it's it's really really surreal. And I would say that all of the disappointment with Kelnick, it's like the Julio positivity and Julio how good he is immediately compared to anything we could have hoped, just wipes all that away with ease. It's like not even a question, like not even worried about Keelnick, Like I just like I don't even I just don't even care. Because for them to have we always thought, oh, they have two of these guys, it's like, it's not how prospects work generally, it's not. They're not all going to be what you expect. So to end up with one being already one of the best players in baseball is just it's amazing. On top of him being just like the coolest, nicest, funniest, smartest person ever. So you know that's the other thing, right, he could be this good and he could be a total snooze fest. That is not the case. So we are so lucky. We're so lucky he is on our favorite baseball team. 00:56:26 Speaker 3: Yeah, and for the next thirteen to seventeen years too, just to make. 00:56:30 Speaker 4: It that forever, forever and ever forever and ever. Amen. 00:56:33 Speaker 3: Amazing, Well, Jordan, this has been awesome. Thanks so much for taking nearly fifty minutes to sit and talk some mariners with us. We've had a blast. Hopefully you've you have too, and here's the hoping for really good twenty twenty three for the ends. 00:56:46 Speaker 4: Absolutely, let me leave you with this, guys, and I'm sure you've maybe started to see this. You followed the team Bryce Miller. Don't don't forget about Bryce Miller. I should have been my answer before. Okay, this is just let's just send on that Bryce Miller saying the name. 00:57:05 Speaker 3: We'll end there Bryce Miller. If you're not a big prospect guy and you haven't heard the name yet, get to know it now. 00:57:12 Speaker 4: You know it's too late now, you know. 00:57:15 Speaker 3: Jordan, thanks so much. We appreciated a ton. 00:57:16 Speaker 4: Thank you, guys. This was super fun. 00:57:20 Speaker 3: Well, thanks so much to Jordan Schusterman for coming on the show with us. I thought that was an awesome interview. It was great to talk with him again again. I met him back in Dayton during the minor league season. He was one section over from me. Like he mentioned at the cow Raley walkoff home run game, We're going to celebrate. He came over and high fived everybody after the home run. And to have him on the podcast to talk about a little bit of the twenty twenty two season, but mostly to preview what's gonna be on tap in twenty twenty three. I thought was cool because we covered a lot. 00:57:50 Speaker 4: There we did. 00:57:53 Speaker 1: You've gotten to talk to him a lot more than I have, so it was really good. As somewhat of a semi ain't even say formal introduction, but we want again. We met them briefly at the winter meetings. You've been able to connect with Jordan and able to ask him to come on the podcast, which is really great, and just to pick his mind a little bit about baseball. He's you know, I I feel like I spend a lot of time thinking about baseball in the day to day, but my main job, I don't cover Major League baseball primarily, so it's sort of secondary. It's all in my free time. But him, it's just like it is his job to look at the entire league, the entire the whole time. So to get his perspective on a lot of things was really It's really great, and their personalities are awesome. They're they're what every everything that baseball fans should be bubbly excited, cover every which way baseball is played. I mean, they have a whole section dedicated to D three baseball, which is really funny. And the last thing I didn't get to ask him about. Maybe when the next time he's on, we can ask him. He has a Jerry Depoto tracker of every transaction Jerry has ever made, which I think is absolutely hilarious. And when they're at the Winter meetings this past year, I wanted to ask him what Jerry's reaction was to that when he showed it to him. 00:59:06 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was really cool. They got to Poto on their podcast, The Baseball Barbicast for an interview, and if you haven't checked that out, you should. It's a really cool interview and it's about Jerry kind of reminiscing on all the trades he's made in his tenure as the Mariners GM And you said it. They know baseball extremely well, but they talk about it and cover it in a really fun and unique way. And to have him on and see some of his personality on with us talking Mariners was pretty cool, especially if you live under a rock and haven't paid attention to anything that's gone on this offseason. 00:59:39 Speaker 1: I think we. 00:59:39 Speaker 3: Covered almost everything, like we covered a whole lot on that segment. Well, TJ, you ready to get that? 00:59:48 Speaker 1: Oh? Go ahead, yeah, say the only thing we missed was sort of who's next? But he mentions Bryce Miller at the end, and I'm all in on that. I'm all in on Bryce Miller. We'll talk about Smiller though. When we preview the bullpen, I believe we're going to do low. I think we said we're going to do the starting rotation in the bullpen at the same time. 01:00:08 Speaker 3: Right. Oh, I thought we said separate because it's two very different things. 01:00:12 Speaker 1: Okay, what I think what you said was we're going to do the bullpen as a whole. We're not going to do each position in the bullpen, right right, right, exactly, Okay, that's what I was thinking. 01:00:24 Speaker 3: Well, let's get to our first base preview here, because as we continue with our position previews as the off season rolls on, we did catch her last week. We're going to preview first base, another position TJ where job security is pretty safe for Seattle. Starting first baseman Ty France comes off another really good twenty twenty two season. By the numbers, he made the All Star Game, put up a one twenty five ohps plus, just above a three win season, classified as a good year. But I think it's safe to say his twenty twenty two campaign is to be dissected in two very different parts. 01:01:02 Speaker 1: That's what I think too. And I'm gonna ask you, which do you expect is the Ty France we're gonna get? Is it pre injury where he was one of the best hitters in baseball prior to June twenty third he had he had an Oakland a Sheldon Noisy run through his arm on a bad throw from Abe Toro at first base, hyper extended his elbow. The diagnosis was a flexer strain. So before June twenty third, ty France had a one to fifty six WRC plus, one of the best hitters in baseball, earned himself his first career All Star on and then after that just a ninety four WRC plus. And it's kind of been like that for Tye. It happened to him a little bit last year in the twenty twenty one season. I say last year, which is technically now twenty twenty two, So two years ago. Now in twenty twenty one, he had he had that wrint. He got hit by a pitch on a wrist by Dustin May down at Dodgers Stadium, and that really kind of threw him into a funk for a little bit, where he came then came back and finished the season really strong and put up respectable number. Didn't really happen this year, though. He struggled down the stretch and makes me just a little skeptical if we're ever gonna get a full season of ty France looking as good as he did in the first three hundred and eleven play appearances of twenty twenty two. 01:02:15 Speaker 3: Yeah, so we're just gonna jump right into this about the whole injury bug and ty France. It's funny. I think that Dustin May hit by pitch was at home because I was at that game, and I remember hearing way down the third base line when he got hit in the wrist of the forearm, and you could hear it. 01:02:31 Speaker 2: You're probably right, it was. 01:02:34 Speaker 3: It was loud, and I was shocked. He even tried to run back out to third base, back when he was still the third baseman after he got hit. I remember he took a couple throws and he's like, yeah, I can't do it. I'm out. So let's dive into this because this is an interesting topic. After ty Franz got run into in Oakland, his season totally changed. He had a tough second half after leading all first basemen in WRC plus before that injury. Do we feel like the injury was the reason for ty Francis struggles in the second half last year or was it truly that he got exposed, because this has been debated a little bit. He got away from his approach, he was chasing a lot of pitches. He didn't have a whole ton of success for a lot of pieces of that second half. I think it was injury related. But there are people on both sides of this. 01:03:24 Speaker 1: There's a couple of things here to look at. He hit the ball on the ground a lot. If you hit the ball on the ground a lot, your success and your ceiling for offensive efficiency and success is really limited. Forty seven percent ground ball rate. And when I look at that, and his hard hit rate is not very good. His average eggs of velocities in the twenty fourth percentile. It's not great for a guy who's supposed to be a first baseman. First baseman are supposed to slug. When that's the case, you're not slugging a whole lot. With ty Franz, Van Grass projects him to put up about the season he did in twenty twenty one on, which is three wins above replacement and a one twenty nine WRC plus. I think most Mariner fans would take that over the course of an entire season. I would also take that. It's just interesting to dissect the fact. Hey, it looked like ty Franz could have taken a big step forward in the first half, but then his second half led him to have roughly the same season he did in twenty twenty one with a few more home runs. He had a career high twenty home runs in the twenty twenty two season. So I don't know if I give you a definitive answer on that, Lyle. It's a little puzzling to me. 01:04:35 Speaker 3: I think time will tell with that, because if he gets back to being the ty France of the first half, or even ty France in twenty twenty one here early on in the twenty twenty three season, I think we'll be able to see it was probably related to injury. I still have hope that ty France can continue to take steps and be an even better first baseman and be more like the first baseman he was in the first half of twenty two. And the reason for that is he's not quote unquote injury prone, like his injuries are freak accidents between getting nailed on the wrist by or risk or forearm area by Dustin May who throws incredibly hard, getting an elbow strain from being ran into on a throw up the line in the field, and getting hit by a million pitches throughout his Mariner's tenure, He's had some bad luck, and if some of that luck could just turn the other way and he just maybe could avoid getting hit by so many pitches here in twenty twenty three, I don't see why he couldn't be a top four to five first basement in baseball. I mean, the bat suggests he can be. 01:05:41 Speaker 1: He can be again, not sold because hit by pitches aren't necessarily, first of all, not necessarily bad luck. Some hitters just get hit by a lot of pitches, just to ask Anthony Rizzo, And getting hit by a lot of pitches doesn't necessarily mean hit by pitches are going to ruin your offensive approach at the plate. Luke Arkins, a guy on Mariners Twitter, writes for Jason Churchill at Prospects Insider does a fantastic job diving into the numbers and finding some things related to ty France And it was kind of funny. Lele and I were looking at it. There's a lot of people talking about ty Franz today, including us, so I'm glad that we're on brand. So Luke Arkins took a look into the most twenty hit by pitch season since nineteen forty seven. Tie's not on this list, of course, because he's only been in the Big league for big leagues for better parts of three seasons. Anthony Rizzo has six. He has never, by the way, Anthony Rizzo has never gone on the IL for as many hit by pitches as he's had for a wrist or arm injury related to a hit by hit by pitch. Craig Vigio's on there as well, he has six. A couple others Carlos Quinton, Chase Utley. I mean, some guys we're talking about that not known for having too many injuries to the wrists and arms like Ti Francis, so could just be a tie problem. To be honest, it could be not necessarily a hit by pitch problem, just a tie one. 01:07:12 Speaker 3: He does crowd the plate a little bit. I mean that left arm does extend out toward the inside part of the plate, so it's fair to say that could play into it. In fact, speaking of Luke Harkins, he put this out this week too that when you look at the Mariners all time list and hit by pitches in their mariner's tenure, ty France is fit on that list with fifty. In fact, he has fifteen hundred less at bats than anybody on that list that's ahead of him, and he ranks fifth on that list of Mariners. That I mean, I want to believe there's some bad luck involved in that, but maybe you're right. If he really crowds the plate in the way he stands, could play a factor into it. 01:07:58 Speaker 1: And it could have something to do with the second half performance as well. Guys do wear down in the second half. But another thing Luke Arkins pointed out in his article, ty France was far from the only notable name to have a second half slump. He put together a list of guys based on their weighted on base average. Weighted on base average is essentially on base percentage, but it's measured according to singles, doubles, triples, home runs, hit by pitches, et cetera. It is all weighted, so obviously a home run is more than a single in terms of on bass And he's looking at the biggest changes of first half and second half of changes in wOBA, which again is short for weighted on base average. Here's some notable names in front of ty France who had a worse second half comparative to their first half. Raphael Devers didn't stop the Red Sox giving him thirteen years, three hundred and thirty one million dollars. 01:08:50 Speaker 4: Did it? 01:08:51 Speaker 1: No, I could tell Marte very good hitter Alejandro kirk Up there for the conversation. The best catcher in baseball Jose Remis, Luis Arise, the batting champ Dansby Swanson got one hundred and seventy seven million dollars from the cups. I mean, ty France isn't alone in this group. Some pretty notable names on that list. Now, for the Mariner's sake, you don't want ty France doing that because they needed his bat down the stretch, even though they had Julio. Ty France is supposed to be that other reliable bat in the lineup, and when he gets moved down from the two hole to the five hole and he starts producing less, he's not driving in as many runs. It's kind of an anchor dragging your lineup if you've gotten guys on in front of him and he's not coming through. 01:09:41 Speaker 3: I guess it was just shocking to see him go through those struggles. And every ballplayer goes through struggles to some extent at some point, but to see him struggle for as prolonged a period of time as we saw him have issues in the second half of the plate, it was just puzzling because he's been such a model of consistency throughout most of his early career. He's been such a great bat, but that just wasn't the case in the second half. So, like we said, time might just have to tell on who ty France really is as a hitter, and I think this season will tell a lot. You just cross your fingers he can stay healthy. But if he can't and he ends up on the IL at some point this year, who in the world is replacing him. That's the other part of this first base preview. Who's behind ty France? 01:10:29 Speaker 2: At this point, I was literally about to ask you that question. I don't know. 01:10:37 Speaker 1: I'm doing my research last night and I text you I'm like, this Mariner's infield, especially at first base, is one injury away from being totally fucked totally. There is nothing in the organization behind ty France. Well, do we want to have the conversation about Evan White? Lyle, are you ready ready? Twenty six ops plus? 01:11:04 Speaker 3: Are we? 01:11:04 Speaker 2: Are we ready for that conversation? 01:11:07 Speaker 3: I think it was twenty three, if I'm not mistaken, twenty. 01:11:11 Speaker 2: Four WRC plus in twenty twenty one for Evan White. 01:11:15 Speaker 3: Okay, WRC plus. I think his ops plus might have been even lower. If we want to confirm it, I can look it up. But I was going to say, when you talk about players behind ty France, there is a guy on a six year, twenty four million dollar contract in this organization to play first base who hasn't been on the field and the better part of two years, in Evan White, and we still don't know the status of his health. That would be the logical option if France goes down, but he is a big question mark these days. Again, nearly two years since he's been on a big league field. 01:11:48 Speaker 1: Get hip surgery in July of twenty twenty one, core surgery right after that, and as soon as the season ends, the lockout starts, so team doctors can't check in on Evan, and there's a lot of cloudiness regarding his recovery. And he didn't debut in the minor leagues until late late, late late into the season. He only appeared in twenty eight Triple A games in twenty twenty two, where he was fine. You see an eight hundred ops. See let's look at the slash line two four three oh eight four eighty four. That's about what cal Rowley puts up at the big league level. But in Tacoma that's really not that impressive. That's about the median ops if you look at it across the league, especially in the PCL. He just crushed baseballs in that environment. So I'm not all that impressed with them. And it just doesn't It doesn't suggest anything that he's got his timing back. It doesn't suggest anything that he is feels like he's ready for baseball. Spring training will be interesting to see how Evan White has progressed and if they're really going to put him on the roster, could they. 01:12:53 Speaker 3: The other option is now that they signed Tommy Lostella and he's expected to be on the big league roster. Lostella can play some first so you can throw him over at the first base spot if France goes down and you don't trust Evan White, whether he's not healthy or you still think he has more development to do in the miners, considering how much he struggled at the plate in the big league so far. Okay, I had that right. He had a twenty three ops plus in twenty twenty one. He had a twenty four WRC plus. I don't even know how that happens. I mean, twenty three ops plus is seventy seven percent below league average. That is really bad. And I know he didn't play that many games to be exactly, only played thirty. But yeah, there's cause for concern if France goes down. 01:13:41 Speaker 1: We threw a bitch fit at Abe Toro all year and he's running a sixty two WRC plus, which my quick math will say that is thirty six points higher than Evan White's in twenty twenty one. That is incredible. 01:13:57 Speaker 3: Wait, it would be thirty nine because Evan White had twenty three torow at sixty two. Right, Oh, we're about to try to see him on a math major. Yeah, we're not math majors at all, But yeah. 01:14:12 Speaker 2: I think I did it. I did the math as being. Never mind, it doesn't matter, I was wrong. 01:14:20 Speaker 3: No, you're good. Yeah. So point being, you don't want either of those guys playing first base if that's going to be their production. Is there some cause to warrant belief that Evan White could still resurrect his career. Sure, he was a big prospect in a first round pick for a reason, but he's got a lot to make up in terms of rehab and just played approach in the big leagues To get to that point. 01:14:51 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to trash on Evan and the monetary value of the contracts not all that much, but that signing has to go down as one of the stupidest decisions this front office has made. 01:15:05 Speaker 2: I mean not even close. 01:15:07 Speaker 3: I mean it seems safe. It seems safe at the time, right because he was such a safe player in the minors that you figured he put up some production at least with his defense. But yeah, he hasn't even been on the field, which is so tough, and it's too bad because his defense is the best in baseball among first basemen. That's not even up for debate. He is the best defensive first baseman in baseball when he's healthy, but he hasn't really had much of a chance to display it in the last couple of years because he hasn't been on the field. 01:15:37 Speaker 1: Now, low, how much do we think Dylan Moore gets a shot at first. 01:15:42 Speaker 3: If there's injuries. It's possible. And if they decide that, maybe Sam Haggerty could slide back to second base and he could plut tune a little bit with Colton Wong, and you have to slide Demo over to first if France can't play or need some days off. Yeah, it could happen. Dylan Moore played a little bit first base over the last couple of years. He's not a natural, but he's a natural athlete, so if he has to play first base, he can do it. It's just not ideal. 01:16:12 Speaker 1: Just a couple of other guys I threw out here as well possible trade candidates jokingly, Eric Cosmer, because he's a fan favorite. Seth Brown from Oakland would be an option. Luke Voight and he's a free agent. If you want him sitting out there, do you want him? Well, do you want Evan White? 01:16:36 Speaker 3: I don't know. I mean, I doubt Luke Voyd's gonna stay unsigned into let's say May or June. I would have to think somebody's gonna sign him at some point in spring training. So at that point you probably have to roll with either Lis Stella or Evan White. Let's just hope ty France not only stays healthy but goes back to being the Ty France that we've grown to know aka cutting out that second half of twenty twenty two, because he is such a great hitter and such a key piece to this MS lineup. When he's healthy and playing, he is one of the best hitters in the lineup. You can argue he's the second best hitter behind Julio when he's firing on all cylinders. There's a reason he made the All Star Game. 01:17:18 Speaker 2: Not wrong, You're not wrong. 01:17:21 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to think who's playing first base on an off days. It gonna be Cooper Hummel, It's gonna be Dylanby it's gonna be if, like I said, I guess Listello when he makes the roster's gonna put Gino at first. No. 01:17:38 Speaker 3: I doubt that Murphy. Does he even play first base? 01:17:42 Speaker 4: I don't know. 01:17:42 Speaker 2: It gave me a headache to do research on this. It gave me such a headache. 01:17:47 Speaker 1: It's gonna give me a headache too when we look at the other positions on the infield, because I think a lot a lot of the same qualifies that there's just not much depth there around the infield. 01:17:55 Speaker 2: There's not much major league ready talent in the minor leagues. 01:17:59 Speaker 1: A lot of this depth is going to have to come by trade, something we'll have to think about as we go along. Okay, let's lap. Let's close out the show with Speak your Mind, Speak your Mind, Spook. 01:18:14 Speaker 2: That would be unwise. What is necessary is never unwise. All right, Well it's on your mind today. 01:18:25 Speaker 3: I'm gonna start it with a question. Did you ever watch that seventies show? I did not, Oh, you never did. It was such a popular show. No, okay, that was one of my favorite shows in high school, really middle school and high school. They're running a spin off now called that nineties show. When I found out about it wasn't so sold because so many of these spinoff shows do terribly. But the reviews so far are really good on it, and I saw a couple of clips on Twitter the past week and I laughed. I was like, this is funny. So now I'm gonna have to sit down and actually watch it and give it a chance, because again, I love the show so much. Growing up, I never really wanted to give the spin off a chance, or the sequel show a chance, because so often they just don't do well. But now I'm gonna keep an open mind because you never know, maybe it turns out like Cobra Kai, which was a really good sequel show. It's too bad. I was hoping to hear that you'd watch the show because maybe we could go back and forth about it a little bit. 01:19:28 Speaker 2: But oh, well, no, have you gotten a chance to watch Left four Dead? 01:19:34 Speaker 1: No? 01:19:34 Speaker 3: I haven't watched that? Is it good? 01:19:36 Speaker 4: Well? 01:19:36 Speaker 1: I watched, Yeah, it's been pretty good. I didn't even play the video game, but the first show was good. I like zombie shows, and I like zombie shows with a story, and it looks like it has potential be better than The Walking Dead, which really kind of flew off the rails after season three when I stopped watching it. So that'll be something I guess for me to look forward to. And you have that ninety show to look forward or too, as well, Yeah, that'll be you. 01:20:02 Speaker 3: You really, you really went to the opposite end of the spectrum there. You were like, Oh, yeah, that show you're looking forward to watching about a bunch of high school kids in Wisconsin that hang out and sit in their basement all day. Oh, you should watch a show that mirrors The Walking Dead. 01:20:19 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it just seems like the two different places are minds in what when thinking about TV nowadays? 01:20:25 Speaker 3: Exactly? Well, I'll give it a shot. 01:20:28 Speaker 1: All right, Well that's good, and maybe you'll have to watch that ninety show and that seventies show as well to see if we can figure that out. My speak your mind. I have a quote pulled up from something that happened this week. Only in the NBA does this happen. Shannon Sharp, NFL Hall of Famer host of Undisputed court side at a Lakers game, manages to have a shouting match with players on the sideline. There's this hilarious photo that looked like an album cover floating around Twitter, the discourse the next two hours at after that was the funniest thing ever. And the fact that Dylan Brooks after the game gets asked about Shannon Sharp wearing whatever he was. I think he was wearing a wife beater and jeans tucked into a poem. Was it just peaked this league energy with the NBA, where no other league comes close that a Hall of famer and another league is just sitting there on the sidelines talking trash. 01:21:26 Speaker 2: To players during action. Let me read you some of these quotes. 01:21:31 Speaker 1: So Shannon Sharp, when he got escorted off the court, got an interview with ESPN, and here's what Shannon said. They were saying, they don't want that smoke Dave. He told the reporter, they do all that talking and jockeing, and I ain't about that jockey. It all started with Dylan Brooks. I said, quote he was too small to guard Lebron. He said fuck me, and I said fuck you back. He started to come at me and I said, you don't want these problems. And then Jah came out of nowhere talking he definitely didn't want these problems. And then his dad came over and we didn't want no problems either, like a guy sitting on the sidelines like, yep, I'm just gonna fight Dylan Brooks, Ja Morant in Ja Morant's. 01:22:16 Speaker 2: Dad, let's do it. 01:22:20 Speaker 3: That was where I saw most of the discourses. It was between Jaw's dad and Shannon Sharp, which again is just so unreal and peak MBA in itself. So many people seem to be on Shannon Sharp's side about this, and my take is if Shannon Sharp hosted a show on his own, it was his own show, I think more people would look at him and say, yeah, you made kind of a fool of yourself at that game. But the fact that he does not host a show on his own and his co host happens to. 01:22:51 Speaker 1: Be not all that well. 01:22:53 Speaker 3: Like to put it lightly, I think people were just jumping at the bit to side with Shannon because they're thinking, oh, well, this is going to get talked about on their show, so it's more fun to take Shannon's side, and that's why they did. 01:23:07 Speaker 2: Undisputed. 01:23:09 Speaker 1: I don't even know how many people watch that show, to be honest, but it seems like the players watch it more than actual people do. Because you have people like this reacting to Shannon Sharp over things he probably says on television. And then I think back to JayR Alexander about a month ago, just out of nowhere in a press conference scrum saying, hey, Skip Bayless and Shannon Sharp, whenever you talk about me, make sure you mentioned that I am the best in the NFL at my position. I'm like, that's so random, of all these things you could think about in your press conference, You're like, nope, I need to own Skip Bayless and Shannon Sharp. 01:23:49 Speaker 3: And Gyro. Alexander is a top five corner in the league. At least the fact that he is so worried about what essentially a comedy show has to say about him. I mean, it just seems like wasted energy. 01:24:05 Speaker 1: It is wasted energy. Anything pertaining Skip Bayless is wasted energy. Whenever he says something just no. He is as scripted as the NBA is. His Dack video this weekend phenomenal. You can see him standing there. If you haven't seen it, go to his Twitter account and watch it. You can see him standing at the door holding his jersey out, waiting for his wife to hit the counter like this, to say, go and walk. 01:24:32 Speaker 2: Around the corner and bottle up his deck jersey and go the most scripted person in the world. 01:24:40 Speaker 3: The way he stomped off at the end of that video is what continues. 01:24:45 Speaker 2: To get me, like, of course, I don't know how anyone marries that man. 01:24:53 Speaker 3: It's incredible. That was a fun Twitter bit to see over the past week. The NBA knows how to stir up drama, that's to say the least. With that, that'll just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Layer Podcast. If you guys want to continue to follow us, you can listen to the full podcast on Apple, Spotify, Google, Amazon, or get the video version on YouTube. If you want to follow us on social media, we're on Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, shorts, and TikTok. You can follow those channels at Marine Layer Pod. Well. Thanks so much again to Jordan Schusterman for TJ Matthewson. This is Lyle Goldstein. Thanks so much for tuning in. We'll talk to you guys next week.