Episode 30: Michael Fisher (Codify Baseball), George Kirby Nears Ace Status, And The Mariners Might Have A New 2B

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number thirty of the Marine Layer Podcast with TJ. Matthewson and Lyle Goldstein. On today's pod, we're joined by Michael Fisher, the founder of Code Tofi Baseball. You can find him on Twitter at code tofi Baseball. Does some really interesting things in the Major League Baseball world. Works with a bunch of major league pitchers, strategizing and stuff. We dive into that his career and some other things around the game. Super interesting conversation that you're going to want to keep track of. We have our three Mariners storylines. We'll each pick our favorite minor leaguer of the week down on the Farm. We're back with the MLB wrap around. No voicemails this week, so we go national instead with our storylines. Another Russell Wilson Umpire of the Week, and we close out the show with Speak your Mind. 00:00:47 Speaker 2: Before we get into today's show, just a reminder we've partnered with In the Clutch Clothing. In the Clutch Clothing Company is an official partner of the Marine Layer Podcast. In the Clutch is the ultimate fan site for Seattle Baseball, including the celebration trid in official MLBPA shirts for j Rod Jared Kelnick, Cal Roley, and Los Bombarros. Guys, just a heads up, I got my shirt in the mail. Here. I'll kind of sit up here if you're watching on YouTube, which by the way, is just another reminder to watch us on YouTube. I've got my shirt. It says straight kelling it Jared Kellnick. You know I had to get my Jared Kellnick's shirt. It's awesome. You're gonna see me wearing it around the ballpark when wear games this year. Being the Clutch Clothing guys did an awesome job with it and I can't wait to start wearing it around. I was excited to get it in the mail. So if you want to do the same, you can use the code Marine Layer Pod at indthclutch dot com for ten percent off and currently every shirt on their website ships within the US for free. 00:01:48 Speaker 1: Sounds like a pretty good deal, guys, And just a reminder. If you're listening on Spotify or Apple, make sure to give us a follow, leave us a review five stars. We hope you can find us on YouTube as well. If you're listening audio, go look at our YouTube, subscribe and turn on the notification bell so you know when we post. You can also find us on all of our social media channels, Twitter, Instagram, and TikTok at Marine Layer Pod. All right, let's get it rolling and we welcome you onto this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, recording here on Monday May twenty second Lyle, I know you like spending times at ballparks, and I think again it happened this weekend. Instead of doing something else, you are on a baseball diamond. 00:02:47 Speaker 2: I did balance it this week. I will say, I use my other time away from the diamond to see a bunch of friends, catch up with some people. I mean work life balance here. We've talked about that here on the podcast, and I think I did it job of that this week because I saw a handful of friends over the last week, which is obviously great. And I don't want to make it sound like I'm just throwing my other friends aside or anything, because they have schedules too, but yeah, I got to see them this week. But baseball wise, we went out to Everett this week, which was which was pretty awesome, and we did some more player content if you want to go check that out on social media because it was a blast. 00:03:22 Speaker 1: So I'm just I'm gonna try and guess like what your favorite interaction was, because there were some good ones there. Not only did you get to talk to your probably all time favorite Dylan Moore, so I mean, you got to talk to Sam Carlson too, very famous internet person Sam Carlson. Also Mariner's Pitcher, which was pretty cool. He's again you had a great conversation with him. I'd love to get to meet him eventually when I'm up there in the Seattle area. He was cool. You got to talk to Tyler Lockley as well, and then Harry Ford again. Go find all that stuff on our social media. We'll be posting. I think there's multiple clips of it that will be posting throughout the week if you want to. But that's just like a small snippet of everything law was able to indulge up there in a funko field. 00:04:07 Speaker 2: It was great. I mean, so obviously I was excited to talk to Dylan Moore. That's the first time I've met him, and that is part of the reason I went out there. I mean, partly I wanted to get out to Everett in general this year because they've got some exciting guys up there. But I thought the fact Dylan Moore would be on a rehab assignment. There was the perfect time to get up there, along with the Mariners being on the road. So the people in Everett were incredibly nice and incredibly helpful by the way, Like, you know, they helped get us set up. We told them who we were, and not only did they help us get squared away with everything, but they could not have been nicer. When we got to the ballpark, they helped us get every player we were looking for. They were chatting us up in conversation. They got some pictures of us doing the interviews, which was really cool. I mean, I can't say enough nice things about him, but yeah, So Dylan Moore was great. I mean, he's just as he seems when he's in interviews or on TV's incredibly nice. He gave some really thoughtful answers, but they were fun at the same time. Anybody who's watched our social content with these players knows, you know, it's it's supposed to be on the fun, lighthearted side of things. Sam Carlson, I'll tell you he was awesome. Like he is an incredibly incredibly cool guy. I mean, so anybody that follows him on social media knows. I mean, he's a social media star. We can call him that at this point, right. I mean, he's got nearly nine hundred thousand TikTok followers, he's over one hundred thousand on Instagram. His content's hilarious, and then you meet him in person, he's super cool and like he was very, very willing to hop on the mic and do some stuff with us, and much like Harry Ford two, all those guys were incredibly nice and they seem like pretty interested in what we were doing. So to get out and do that was Yeah, it was a blast. 00:05:45 Speaker 1: Did he show you how to throw the snap Dragon? 00:05:48 Speaker 2: No? And it's too bad. I should have asked him to kind of give me the give me the formula for it again, like grip the baseball for me and and all. But we were talking about his TikTok page a little bit and just us doing TikTok as well, since we kind of share a similarity in that regard. Now we are nowhere close to Sam Carlson level. Hopefully one day, hopefully all you listeners can help us get to that point at some point. But we were kind of joking about how it's cool that Sam Carlson can do the whole self deprecation thing with his TikTok page and his content creation, because not everybody can do that. Not everybody can just kind of lightheartedly make fun of themselves, which is part of Sam's bit and why some of his stuff is really popular. Because to your point about the Snapdragon, I mean, he's talked about before I tried to, you know, spin off a nasty snap Dragon. It got taken out of the ballpark or whatever, and then I got benched for the next two weeks. Like his TikTok. His tiktoks go along the lines of things like that. And what he said when we were talking to him about it, he said, listen, if I'm saying I suck, people can't jump in the comments and say I suck because I'm already making fun of myself, is what he was talking about. So, yeah, he's he was a really cool guy. And I think Sam's giving himself a hard time. He does not suck. I mean, he was a second round pick for a reason. He's got nasty stuff for a reason. I mean, yeah, But the point being all in all, really cool guys. It was awesome to get out there. 00:07:13 Speaker 1: Yeah, it really was. I would love to get up to Everett for a game, so maybe we'll have to coordinate and figure out how to make that work. So I'm glad you got out there. It's gonna be good social content. Be sure to pay attention to all those and yeah, hopefully we can connect with those guys down the line. Hey, maybe a bit more of a long form conversation on that that. I think that'll be super good. So a bunch of good guys in the Mariners organization and we really appreciate it. Speaking of those Mariners, let's get to our three Mariners storylines, all right. First up on our storylines this week, George Kirby is starting to do things that aces do lyle, it's becoming more and more apparent over the last month, but he is doing all of those things that aces are supposed to do. 00:08:01 Speaker 2: So I'm often not a fan of the stat quality start just because sometimes, like if you go out there and you go six innings and three earned runs every single time out, your era is gonna be in the fours, which is not terrible, but it's not wowing. That being said, George Kirby has thrown eight straight quality starts six of those last eight, he has given up two earned runs or less. So in six of eight outings he has gone six or more innings giving up two earned runs or less. To your point, DJ, that is a stuff. 00:08:37 Speaker 1: You know what else is a stuff? He's given up seven barrels in nine starts. Think about that, seven barrels in nine starts. What's another good stat here? He's gone at least six innings in every start since his first one, the one that me and you went to go watch in person against the Angels. Every single one since then he is gone at least six innings. He has more starts of six or more innings than Luis Castillo and Marco Gonzalez combined this season. And that still stands after we record on a Monday and Luis just checked off a six inning start. Still stands. 00:09:19 Speaker 2: I would call that pretty good. I would love to go back into the replies of that guy in one of our TikTok comments. It was the first or second it was the second round of fan interviews we did, and you were asking people, oh, who's your favorite Mariner to watch? And somebody was talking about it was George Kirby. He can't wait to watch him pitch. He thinks it's going to be a big year for him, And that was right before that first Angel start where he only went less than five show. Hey took him deep. It wasn't his best doubting somebody leaves us a comment that night and they go this age, well, and I responded on our account, I said, he has thirty to thirty one starts left. Well, I'd love to check in on that fan now and see what he thinks of George Kirby, because he currently ranks top five in the American League in four and he ranks seventh in the American League in ERA at two six to two. Yeah, this guy's a borderline ace. 00:10:10 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, you could say that last five starts a two zero two ERA thirty five and two thirds. I think he's gone seven in all but one of those starts where he went six and two thirds, thirty strikeouts, four walks. TEA opponents are slogging three to twenty one against him. Here's more. Last three starts against the Braves, the Red Sox, and the Texas Rangers, who rank fourth, fifth and second in the entire league in WRC plus, and he gave up four earned runs in twenty and two thirds, twenty one strikeouts and two walks. Those teams scored three one and zero runs in those games. 00:10:51 Speaker 2: Ace, don't get it twisted. He is absolutely in the cy Young race right now. Will we sit here and tell you he's the front runner. No, at least not yet. It's probably Sonny Gray at this point. That being said, he is in the race. You ranked top five in the league in f war and top ten in ERA rather top seven in ERA. Yeah, you're in the cy Young race. George Kirby is absolutely in the race right now. He's been one of the best pitchers in the American League, and I think a reason for that, TJ. Not just for that, but his jump between year one and year two. A lot of his secondary pitches have taken leaps. 00:11:31 Speaker 1: On top of that. You remember the poled fly ball stats who were thrown out at the beginning of the season in the preview. 00:11:36 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. 00:11:38 Speaker 1: That home run he served up to Travis Darnaut this weekend was the first home run he's given up on a poled fly ball in almost a year. 00:11:46 Speaker 2: How's How's it even possible for someone. 00:11:51 Speaker 1: Who throws as hard as he does and loves his fastball. That's insane, Like someone's gonna turn on your fastball eventually, right, Like, poled fly balls are pretty dangerous when it comes to power pitchers, especially because you get it, you get it on the barrel, and you barrel a pulled fly ball, it's more likely than not crashing off the fence or going over the wall. He has allowed just eight pulled fly balls all season, and that was just the second hit total off of one. It's it's crazy, It is just bizarre. He's thrown five pitches pretty regularly this season, stuff aces do oh, and like he hasn't even thrown a splitter yet, which he's gonna introduce. We know he's gonna introduce it this season. It's already been said that it was called and he like just wasn't really comfortable throwing it, and he probably wouldn't throw it against, say, in those last start against the Braves. It's probably not a lineup you introduce a new pitch against. But this upcoming weekend when he faces the Pirates, he's gonna throw it. Right, maybe it'll probably be a better lineup to do it. 00:12:54 Speaker 2: That feels like the type of team you unveil a new pitch against, especially if he feels like he's right on the borderline of being ready to throw it. And this guy has five to six pitches in his arsenal, he can throw a bunch of different offerings, and even without the splitter so far, just touching again on how a lot of his secondary stuff has taken a jump. That was kind of his deal in year one that sometimes he didn't have a consistent secondary pitch and a consistent second putaway pitch behind the fastball. Well, now both his curveball has been awesome. I mean, his curveball has been his best secondary pitch so far, as sinker's been good too. But that curveball, man, is that taken leaps. So it's just given him an entire new level to jump up to. 00:13:35 Speaker 1: And he's throwing them all for strikes, all of them. You know how hard it is to control five pitches, really difficult, And he's walking two percent of his batters two two percent. 00:13:49 Speaker 2: Yeah, that ranks in the ninety nine percent tile of all of baseball. We would call that pretty good. 00:13:54 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say so. I have one favorite moment from this last weekend. He goes up and in on Ronald Kunya at about ninety seven miles an hour. Now, Ronald, I love his game. He's a blast to watch. He can be a little fucking dramatic. Sometimes he gets brushed back like this, like inside his shoulder batting right handed, immediately turns out and glares at George Kirby, trying to get eye contact with him in on the mound, really trying to get count contact on him, and George will not give it to him. He like he won't. George like already walked off the mound and is like looking to centerfield, not giving it to him. The only eye contact he makes for the rest of the bat is when George gets on the mound and then blows a fastball by him to strike him out. Ronald tries to do it again and George just goes right to the dugouts, just like, get the fuck out of here. 00:14:52 Speaker 2: Listen. I love Ronald Acunya. He's great for the game of baseball. He's a phenomenal baseball player. He's probably the NLMVP right now if the season ended today. To your point, yeah, he's a little bit of a drama queen. He can be a little bit of a drama queen. And this is not his first instance with something like this. We're not sitting here saying Ronald Acunya some bad guy or anything like that. Of course he's not. But he can be a little bit of a drama queen, and he was doing that with George this weekend. But hey, credit to George, who's like the most toned down, mellow, calm, humble person ever, just wouldn't give into it. 00:15:27 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good. I wonder what someone that, like a different Mariner's personality would have done with that. But I'm glad it was George out there because it just like the energy just does not it does not replicate what Georgie's like, I'm just gonna get you out. 00:15:39 Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe Logan would have been a little more pissed off. I don't know, because he's got more of that flare on the mound, at least outwardly than Kirby does. So maybe if it was Logan he chirps back a word or two. But you know what, Kirby, he just said, all I'm worried about is getting outs, and that's what he did against Akunya. So George, Kirby man Luis Castillo's the question as of this team, but they have a significant one and one a punch at the top of the rotation with Kirby and Luise. The gap is closing. Yes, it is pretty quick, which is a great thing. And that's no knock against Luise. That's just talking about how unbelievable Kirby's been and man, are we excited to watch it keep unfolding. Okay, second storyline here, a little bit more on the downside. As good as the rotation has been, we've talked about the offensive struggles a little bit. Some that I didn't realize till I saw a stat on Twitter this weekend. TJ. It's been about a calendar year now since ty France has really been an elite bad and along with that, it's been about a calendar year that he's gone through some struggles on the power side of things. 00:16:48 Speaker 1: It's like he's swinging a pool noodle up there. It's really strange. You look at a Savant page, he's eleventh percentile on average eggs at velocity twenty eighth percentile and hard hit rate, which are both bad, especially for a first baseman. But if you look at his quality of contact ten percent better than average, his expecting batting average is in the eighty second percentile. Those are both quality, which it's kind of strange to see that balance there. But regardless, what ty France has put out there in the two spot while he's had is like he's had his ups. I don't know if he's his bat is quite the right thing for the two hole. I would say, I'm just not like, I'm just not thinking that the run production from him overall is quite there to stay in this two spot. It's it's kind of it's kind of strange to look at, but you're right. It has been almost a year exactly, and he has been a sub replacement level bat since then. I wrote it down since he got injured last year is in ninety six WRC plus since since he came back, ninety six across a pretty much a full season of play, and from a first baseman, that doesn't cut it. That makes you below league average value. You're probably you know, you're probably hovering right around zero war at that point. 00:18:10 Speaker 2: Here's the stat I saw since June one of twenty twenty two. Ty France is slashing two forty one, so two forty one average three to zero three on base percentage three eighty four slugging That is low to come out to a six eighty seven OPS. That's entering tonight's game. That was before the Monday win over the A's. He's also grounded into twenty four double plays in that time. That's across just shy of six hundred played appearances. So a six eighty seven OPS for your first basement in the last calendar year. Look when ty France is at his best, I love him in the two spot, but it's been about a year now since he's really hit with much authority. I know everybody's talked about that fourteen game hit streak that he just got off of. There's just not a lot of power there. 00:18:57 Speaker 1: It's not crushing the ball. His ISO this year isolated power one oh seven. That's forty seven points below his career average, and it's been like that for about a year. First basemen are not supposed to have an ISO of one oh seven. I mean, you're supposed to get legitimate power production from that position, and Tie is like, he's not doing it because what you offset at one oh seven ISO with oh, you hit three thirty and you strike out twelve percent of the time, which he's still not striking out, which is nice, which this lineup desperate need, desperately needs. But you can't. You cannot have your first baseman have a lack of slugging. I think the culprit here overall is breaking balls. He has a two to twenty nine weight to on base average, again, which essentially like accumulates average on base and slugging into into one number. It waits a walk, single, double, triple, home run, all differently right, two twenty nine overall, which is well below the league average of about three to twenty. In that mark, he's slugging two seventeen against breaking balls. He is batting one sixty seven against breaking balls. Last year, by comparison, three seventy two weighted on base average against breaking balls, he slugged five point fifteen and he hit two ninety seven against breaking balls. That's a culprit right there, pretty big one. 00:20:30 Speaker 2: You have to hit breaking balls. You're gonna crush the fastball. That's great, and and you should. But if you can only hit one pitch, obviously you're gonna start to see a healthy dosage of spin. And if ty struggling against breaking balls, and we know that if we're just two guys sitting here with Mike's talking about it. You better believe every opposing team knows that. So that's how they're gonna attack them a lot of the time. Look, type brance is never gonna have Pete Alonzo power. He's just not that type of guy. He's He's not gonna hit forty home runs a year. He can certainly hit twenty twenty two. He can hit with some real thump in the lineup. In fact, when ty France was at his peak, the comparison people were given him was baby Edgar. I heard that comp for ty France numerous times. People called them baby Edgar Martinez, between his played approach, his batttball skills, his ability to put the ball in the gap for doubles, and its sneaky power where he can hit twenty to twenty five home runs a year, maybe twenty five of the max. But it's just not coming out over the last calendar year, and we haven't seen enough of it for sure in twenty twenty three. I mean, the guy's only got a couple of home runs. 00:21:34 Speaker 1: One other concerning stat which is not good. He has increased his infield pop up rate to nine point two percent it was five point four percent last year and five point five percent in twenty twenty one. Those are outs nearly one hundred percent of the time, and he's doing it four percent more now. So that's just like that's taking every potential, good quality batted ball and throwing it out right there. 00:22:02 Speaker 2: This Mariners lineup is supposed to be built on power, and it has to be if they're going to thrive. Here on Monday, this win against the A's, all the bats look great. I mean, hey, ty Frans had two hits. Now they were both singles, but he had two hits. So these guys are going to have to hit with authority if the offense really wants to get going, and a lot of that will have to be from ty France. Maybe he turns it around here as the summer months start to get closer and closer. But you said it, your first baseman can't be opsing below seven. 00:22:31 Speaker 1: Hundred, and I don't think you can have someone not hitting for this much power batting second. I just don't think you can do it. I don't think the run production is there. 00:22:41 Speaker 2: Especially if JP's going to hit lead off, which we've talked about on this show. We are okay with he's doing a phenomenal job of it since he's been put there. But if you're going to essentially have two slap hitters in the one in two spots, that's not going to drive in a lot of runs. 00:22:56 Speaker 1: No, And those are the two spots in your lineup that are going to hit the most right and you want the most run production. Odds are Julio heats up, you probably moved barring tie heating up. You move Tie out of two, and you move Jared and Jared and Julio up. Someone hits two, someone hits three, and you probably put Tie somewhere in the somewhere, probably still in the middle. You want to break up the clump of cal Taoscar and Gino in terms of strikeouts, I would imagine just to like add a little bit of break in there. That's probably I'm gonna say, that's probably how it ends up. I'm not sure how quick that happens. Scott's service doesn't seem like he's anything that he's mentioned that they're planning on moving Tie out of the two hole. Well, we might not agree with it now, I mean, it is what it is, So we'll see how long that potentially takes all. Right, let's get to our third storyline. Third storyline here of the week lyle very intriguing one that i'd I didn't think at the beginning of the season that we would be mentioning. Ever. I think Jose cabiiro Is has to be your starting second baseman, or at least take some Jose cabiiro Is going to platoon at second base with Dylan Moore. That seems more and more every day like a reality. 00:24:20 Speaker 2: Jose Calbileiro is no joke. We can sit here now recording on May the twenty second, and say, this guy's no joke. Now. Is he gonna be an All Star? Probably not? Is he going to run out of five war almost definitely not. Can he be this team's near everyday second basement or at least platoon. Yeah, look at everything this guy's done. He's got an eight h two ops ops is over eight hundred. I mean the Mariners have just waited and waited for a second baseman to do anything like that. One twenty three WRC plus entering today, so twenty three percent above league average. That's before he hit the home run, by the way, So we would assume that's going to go up. He is playing phenomenal defense. He ranks in the top ten percent tile of the league in defense. He's incredibly fast. I mean, how much more could you ask for out of this guy? 00:25:13 Speaker 1: Did you know he's the best base runner on the team right now? 00:25:16 Speaker 2: Doesn't shock me. 00:25:18 Speaker 1: It's a pretty low bar to clear because overall they've been a pretty chromy based running team. So yeah, that's value right there. More impressively, I mean, overall for the season, he's walking twelve percent of the time. There was a clip there where he was striking out about thirty percent of the time, but he's brought that k rate down to twenty three percent for the season. If you just look at the month of May one seventy eight WRC plus, he's walking fourteen percent of the time and striking out less than twenty small sample, but as a second baseman, I like, yeah, I mean, what what was the last second base month that did that for the Mariners? Tim Beckham? 00:25:58 Speaker 2: It's gotta be Robbie unless that high Tim Beckham April back in twenty nineteen really did that. 00:26:03 Speaker 3: I'm thinking, Robbie, Yeah, it has to be right, Like, I don't remember the last time I saw a month like that from a Mariner's second basement. 00:26:10 Speaker 1: The competition around him is not great, but he is. There hasn't been much he's done wrong, necessarily at the plate. He's you know, he hasn't been afraid to stand there in the box. And Martin Maldonado gets in his face and starts chirping at him, tells him to get get ready and start to hit, and he's like, fuck off. He does that. He has long at bats, which is so refreshing. Her lineup that just doesn't stop swinging and missing. He doesn't really embody that. He he it's great. It's a joy to watch. He makes it a lot more fun to watch. And we saw it this week in Atlanta. He played against Righty's with Colton Wong on the roster. It was him in the lineup. He played every game against the Braves. Jerry Depoto said they were gonna give Wong a rest. I don't know how you play Colton Wong over Cabairo right now. Even if you think he's gonna regress, it's probably better than what Colton Wong does. 00:27:03 Speaker 2: And once Dylan Moore comes back, who thrives against left handed pitching and also walks, hits for some power, plays, good defense, steals bases. How would you put Colton Wong in there over Dylan Moore? I mean, Dylan Moore is probably gonna move around as he always does, but I think a lot of his playing time will be seen at second base this year and it kind of takes some of the pressure off and load off a Cabierro. So it seems like it's gonna be those two moving forward, Like you open the segment up with, and where does that leave Colton Wong? I guess that's another topic to dive into here. 00:27:35 Speaker 1: I gotta say Colton Loong is one of the worst baseball so on pages I've seen it is. It's bad. He all right, I'm gonna just put a disclaimer. I know Colton Wong is a really great guy. I know he is, and I know he's had an incredibly productive, over decade long major league career. Here are some of the career lows for Colton Wong career losen expected batting average, expected slugging, weighted on base average, expected weighted on base average, which is quality of contact, hard hit percentage, walk rate, strikeout rate, average, exit velocity, has a forty WRC plus this year. He is, so he's been pretty bad on the bass pads. The only people who have been worse base runners than him are three guys who are not supposed to be good based runners, Tom Murphy, Ty France and Auhenio Suarez. And he's also twenty seventh percentile in outs above average. There's not a single thing he's doing well, not one. 00:28:38 Speaker 2: I hate to continue to pile on here, but you're not even bringing up his arm strength at second base, which you wouldn't think. Second based arm strength means a whole lot. He ranks in the first or second percentile in arm strength, and there have been a lot of double plays this year that have not been turned because the arm isn't there. 00:28:58 Speaker 1: I here's the quote from Jerry to Poto this week. He said, obviously you saw I think this during the Brave series that Caabierro got a start against or actually might have been Red Sox, regardless from last week. He got the start against the right and handed pitcher. And you might see that more in the short term as we try and give Colton a chance to reset and get his season started in a way he's accustomed to playing. I don't see for a team that is trying to win right now that has the patience to wait for a near decade long veteran to turn around. I'm gonna give you some perspective. I told you this before we started recording. I didn't realize to the extent of how negative like the value on a team that Colt Long has been this season. He is already worth negative one point one wins above replacement this year. Already he is stepped to the plate less than one hundred times. He's already been worth negative one point one wins above replacement by Baseball Reference. For reference, the person who I claimed was one of the worst baseball players I've ever watched in my life, Abraham Toro, was worth negative point seven wins above replacement last year in three hundred and fifty plate appearances. Colton Loong is nearly half a win worse in a third of the plate appearances. That is how bad it's been, and I don't see a path forward for him this year. It's just that bad. 00:30:39 Speaker 2: The Mariners didn't lose much either way in that trade. Considering to get Colton Long, they gave up Jesse Winker, who I don't think anybody really wanted to keep around. And then your favorite guy as you just brought up Abe Toro, where the two guys traded to Milwaukee to get long so it's not like they're going to be feeling this trade forever. I mean, Wong hits free agency this winner. He's only got you know, more months left on this contract. But where that leaves him the rest of the year, he may just be the last guy on the bench. I don't know how you stop playing Jose Cabiero at this point. And obviously you're gonna get Dylan Moore in at least a few times a week once he gets healthy. That feels like that leaves Colton along with just a bench spot. Maybe he'll get a game here and there, Maybe he gets it off the bench here and there. I don't know how he wins this job back unless he does something remarkable. 00:31:29 Speaker 1: Here's the way I think, here's my prediction. We could probably check it on this next week when dyl Moore gets activated. I think all three of them stay on the roster and Dylan Moore slides in as an outfielder instead, and maybe does Haggarty have any options left? 00:31:45 Speaker 2: No, he feels like the odd man out right now. When Demo gets. 00:31:48 Speaker 1: Back, yeah, I think more odds are they're all three of them stay on the roster. I just I don't see them cutting ties with him. It seems a little early for that, but so can't. I cannot see in any world how he's playing over Dylan Moore or Kabbierro at second base. I don't see it. Not if you say you're you're trying to put your best lineup out there. 00:32:13 Speaker 2: Let's check back in on this when Demo gets activated. Because I'm with you, I don't think they move on from him. I think he's going to stay on the roster pretty much all year, if not all year period. And what his role looks like, it's it's TVD again. He may be a bench batt he may only play once a week. But listen, the glass half full. Part of that is if Cabbyirero is this good, it's a blessing in disguise, and Kabbierrero's a rookie, like could you imagine if they actually have found their second basement moving forward in Cabbyierro when they didn't even really mean to. 00:32:48 Speaker 1: We'll pump the brakes on that a little bit. 00:32:51 Speaker 2: I said, future, I said, what if I didn't say, yes, it happened, I said, what if? Okay, I'm just saying or run on. 00:33:00 Speaker 1: A small sample too, Like small sample for Colton, it's small small sample for Jose. But if he wants to be great just this year, that's fine too, mm hmm. So that it makes the It makes the Mariners plans, I guess this year a little more clear, thankfully, because if they if Cabierra was I don't know, having a w RC plus of eighty at second A's, which for him as a rookie, wouldn't be out of this realm. You'd be kind of shit out of lucky. You might still have to play Colton long and just hope he turns it around like he did last year. I don't know they you know, as we're recording this, they have a week against the A's and the Pirates. Will Colton Wong probably see Samatt bats against the A's probably, Yeah, we see Smett bats against the Pirates probably. I mean, in terms of what Jerry said, resetting and starting the way he wants to, this might be it right for forgetting his confidence back. And there's a little spurt there it looked like he was, you know, kind of back a little bit, but then I think he heard his wrist and then it's right back to pre injury production. So we don't know if he's we don't know how bad he's hurt. They haven't mentioned anything like that, but that'll be something to monitor as we go along with the second base situation. Didn't really talk about second base with Michael Fisher, the founder of Code Tofi Baseball, but I've been following him on Twitter for quite a while now. He is a very interesting story. He works directly with a handful of major league pitchers, helping them with game strategy, pitch selection like where to throw it, all these types of stuff. You can go there's a great article on pitture List if you want to go read up a little bit on his background before you listen to this interview with him. We do go into a little bit of his background, but if you want to have some words in front of your face as well, there's some background out there on the internet as well. All very you know, he's a very smart guy, very numbers oriented guy, as well as very popular on Twitter as well. Really enjoyed our conversation with him. Yeah, and I love talking about pictures. 00:35:15 Speaker 2: He was great. I mean, he is so knowledgeable about not just the game, but pictures. And he's got such an interesting background and you'll hear us kind of dive into what he's all about. Because this is modern day baseball. He was a believer in analytics way before it was cool, way before moneyball, and he talks about that in the interview with us, and he kind of dives into why it's valuable, how it's helped pictures, how he kind of views it. I mean, just everything we talked about with him, awesome conversation. Just like you, I followed him on Twitter for a while. He does some phenomenal contents. We were really excited to get him on. 00:35:52 Speaker 1: And now we're gonna let you hear a little bit about it. So with that, let's get to our interview with the founder of Code of five Baseball, Michael Fisher. Okay, we welcome on Michael Fisher of Code of Phi Baseball. He founded Code of five back in two thousand and three. You can find him and much of his work on Twitter at Code of fi Baseball. Michael, we appreciate you taking some time to join us here today. Before we get into you just wanted to acknowledge as a Mariner's theme podcast. I know you grew up inn A's fan, and we're we're kind of heartbroken that the Aser are going to be leaving the Bay Area sometime in the future, and it is really terrible what they've done here in the last it seems like last day decade or so. So we just thought we'd say sorry. 00:36:39 Speaker 4: Yeah, I actually went to games when I was a kid as a season ticket holder. I mean, people have talked about bleeding green and gold and then the assman name three players they can't do it. You know, I really did not so much anymore because I'm helping a lot of different guys, but they're not done yet. No, remember I remember I said that. I mean you can see it now where they're like, hey, we have this find an agreement and then they get there and Vegas guys are like, yeah, we're not going to give you half a billion dollars. We need to talk about that. So we'll see what happened. 00:37:08 Speaker 1: So we're recording here on a Thursday, and I think there was, like you said, another story on their second land agreement today that came out that said hold on here a second. So I don't know, do you think there is like, what percent chance do you think they would actually stay? 00:37:29 Speaker 4: In ten years, there's a good chance that a team called the Oakland A's will be playing in Oakland, whether it's the same franchise or if MLB did something cute with some expansion and started calling them there or whatever. There's still a path there though, And actually the Oakland mayor is kind of like, hey, you know, we didn't just tell you guys, we never talked to you again. So there's a good path there. We'll see what happens that that site. Valley's is kind of crazy. Nine acres, I mean you know how small nine acres is? 00:37:57 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's Fenway Park, right part yeah? 00:38:01 Speaker 4: Right, So and if you've been to Vegas, I mean it's not I don't know, don't go there to play baseball. 00:38:10 Speaker 2: Did you like the Oakland Coliseum growing up? Because I went about four or five years ago and I was like wow, and not in like a great way. So i'd love to get your take on its hot garbage. 00:38:21 Speaker 4: Now, Okay, back, I can't remember which year it was that they put in what's called Mount Davis, which is that just garish center field wall of glass and concrete. But you used to be able to see the hills during the game. It was really nice, and it was newer and all that. So it's horrible now, you know, it obviously needs to be replaced. But there was definitely a time when we didn't go to the game thinking what a dumb it was. But but now, of course it is. I'm sorry, I can't dress that up. It's it's a dumb. I mean, there's raw sewage, there's possums in the wall, there's so but I used to like it. 00:38:58 Speaker 1: How many different animals have you seen? 00:39:01 Speaker 4: How many have I seen? There? Seven? 00:39:04 Speaker 1: Wow? Wow, that's that's more than I thought. 00:39:08 Speaker 4: Yeah, well splitting maybe maybe group two of them in colm cats. But one of them definitely look like a links. So we're calling it. We're gonna call it a different one. 00:39:16 Speaker 2: I was gonna ask, what are the seven or six in that case? 00:39:21 Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely have seen skunks, possums, rats, the links, definitely dogs. What were the other ones that we saw? 00:39:32 Speaker 2: Oh? 00:39:32 Speaker 4: Bats everywhere? What's the other one to think about it? Although you could probably guess from that group that it's kind of fair game of whatever. 00:39:42 Speaker 1: I think a seagull would count too, right, I know they hang it. They like hanging. 00:39:45 Speaker 4: Out oracle everywhere. The seagulls know what inning it is, right, It's the weirdest thing. 00:39:53 Speaker 1: So Michael, let's get a little bit into code offy baseball company you started in two thousand and three that wasn't actually supposed to be a baseball company at the start. I believe in quote a company that you said, a company that provides analytics consulting services, which if you think about it, is actually very much true now more than ever, it just more focused on baseball. So just for those who don't know who you are, could you show a little bit of background about how you started and how you got to I guess doing exactly what you do now. 00:40:26 Speaker 4: Right, even though I'm a lifelong baseball fan, that it wasn't very easy to pay the bills doing baseball back then, and so my line of work is more in business administration, analytics, financial services, that kind of thing. So go if I started when I got tired of working traditional jobs and wanted to start my own business, it was not with anything baseball related in mind, And for gosh, at least twelve years after that it was just straight boring, you know, loan money to people and collect money and decide what rates you're going to charge. Just boring stuff. But I was good at it, and it's you know, I love numbers, and you know, obviously kept kept the lights on and I could see my kids and I could spend time with my wife. So that's how code IF I started. And then I went to a family reunion. I don't know if you know the story, but it's just completely net. So my my uncle had remarried and he introduces us to his new wife and she says, sweet lady, and she said, oh, yeah, so nice to me. I love baseball. You love baseball. I was like, oh boy, this okay. My boy plays for the A's. I'm like, yeah, okay, little league. Right, you're just picturing that's really cute. That's great. So no, I shouldn't say a place for the U is a place in their minor league system. So you can you just see me like, say what I mean, I'm going to call your bluff now because back then I can't do it now. Back then, I actually knew the starting rotation of every A's minor league team, and that whole thing so I actually went on, does he play for Vancouver. She's like no, and she's smiling at me. Does he play for King County? Yeah? He plays for King County. Like the first guy named is Dan Strayler. So yeah, that's my boy. You gotta be kidding me, right, because I mean, kne who this guy was, had followed him the kind of see that maybe someday he'll be up because he had a good fastball, slider combent. Okay, fine, this is like two thousand and ten, Okay, I mean it took like I mean like I went to a ports game and Meadham. I went to a River Cats game and met him, talked to him a little bit, didn't do anything to help the guy. Nothing. There's I don't know if you know back then, it's not like they were just there wasn't data flowing, there weren't there weren't cameras. It was the first like pitch effects, pitch tracking stuff. It was that was garbage too. I mean, you know, a good chunk of the records were wrong, and like, so how do you clean this up? And just there was no inkling of doing that for a living anyway. Twenty fifteen of Spring training and he's been DFA. I think it was during the I was twenty sixteen early twenty sixteen. It got DFA twice in a week, and he just called me and he said, you know, I know you love this stuff. You agree with numbers, and can you just look at these numbers that the team has given me and he give me some advice because all they keep telling me to do is throw faster. So he had been through the Cubs and the Astros and they were just like, dude, if you can't throw ninety three, we don't have a spot for you. So you guys know baseball, like, if you're going to throw baseball as fast as you can, where's your arm? Just kind of think about where that is. And his arm was kind of out to the side of it, so he had a lot of run to his fastball and it was going right into baseball bats. So how to try to convince him to like, Okay, I'm looking at some of this data and it kind of looks like when you don't do that as much, you get more rise on your fast body, you get less run on it, you're getting more swings and this as you get most importantly a ton a ton of flyout and if you go all in on this thing and just I mean, you know, don't hurt yourself doing it. Because he's been thrown like this for years, you know you probably stick around at least give it a try. And sure enough if you go back and look, I mean he made a lot of extra money getting a lot of guys to fly out to Billie Hamilton or whoever else you'll standing out there in center field. You know, the numbers aren't blow you away, numbers with the loss in ninety one ninety two. But it worked. And of course you also know from being around baseball how if something's working, how everybody comes out of the bushes wondering how they can get something themselves. So Tommy Malone, who's who's still hanging around, was I think number two by like a day. It's like trying to Shoan Doolittle, you know, kind of that motley crew of A's guys. And after I helped all them, I mean, trying to have an all star year, do a little have an all star year? Tommy hung around. You've seen him pitch, right. 00:45:18 Speaker 1: M yeah, we can see him start this year. Yeah. 00:45:21 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's insane. It's insane. But then I realized how different. I mean, I've been around baseball a long time, but even back then, like, god, these guys are all different, Like how do they think? Not just how do they throw it? How do they think? So right about then it started to get kind of weird, like, Okay, now there's ten guys that want me to help them, and I'm trying to do this thanking thing, and you know, I have contracts with those guys that I have to fulfill and all that stuff. So for two years or so, it was trying to juggle both of those things. And then finally in like twenty nineteen, Yeah, somebody gave me some great advice. They said, you know, if the future you showed up, you know, and was giving you advice, like, what would they tell you that? It was very clear to me, like they tell me, you've got to try this. You've got to go in on this that you love. So that's what happened. I let my contracts run out on banking and just jumped all the way in on the on the baseball side. And I mean, so far, so good. It's not that simple because all the teams don't really necessarily love that somebody's given them guys advice from wherever the hell I am. So that's that's stuff. That's a long answer to your question, but that's how that's how it came. And then today it's just you know, surviving adding guys as I can. You know, guys get hurt all the time, Guys get cancer like Leam Hendrix any just you know, it's just it's just this wild thing. And every day it's just waking up and trying to figure out who's on board for that day. 00:46:56 Speaker 2: Okay, so obviously now you have a whole bunch of big years that are coming your way for help. But for you, over the years, how did you learn as much about pitching as you did to build trust with those players to make their way to you and said, hey, help us, how can I get better? 00:47:13 Speaker 4: Well? I didn't play past the high school level. I coached high school baseball. I can certainly talk that talk. I'm really good with data and I'm six five, so that helped a lot. I noticed right away, like in the sports arena, like just how it's not right. I don't condone it, but you just kind of like you can buy yourself a ticket of like hey, that looks like you used to play and not walk around telling talking people out of it. But at least they'd hear the first thing I'd say. And most of the time people wouldn't even ask like did you pitch? Did you do this whatever? A lot of what I learned as I as I went along was from these guys I helped, and just hearing how they think and how they talk. And I mean some guys is you can just completely destroy if you give them certain advice, Like there are pictures I help who don't even look at the stuff I give them. Now that sounds crazy. I know they're like, I'm just going to give this to my coach or give this to my catcher. They're gonna call the pitch. All I can do is focus on executing a major league pitch. I have no room for anything. I don't want to talk about our at least point, or my tempo or my sequencing or just nothing. And I know you're gonna help me, but that's like all I can do. And other guys are just like, feed me as much as you can feed me, but that's not necessarily what you should do. So that's another trick of trying to figure out. Is this one of the rare, fairly rare breed that you can really overload and share everything that's in your mind about what might work with them or do you have to be selective and and not the offensive doing that? You know, that's it's actually not easy to. 00:48:56 Speaker 1: Do in terms of what you actually give them. If people want to it a better idea of what you give the players, you can go to at Code fi Baseball on Twitter. I believe it's your pin tweet. Brian Kenny had you on MLB Network and you you ran through a very quick version of what you do essentially for for what you've made public. It's these heat charts you could see him on on Baseball Savan for example. They have so many of those, I you know, think of another question off of that, but we'll go with this one first. So with those those heat charts that you're looking at, how how much how many layers goes into this? See when when I was doing some reading up on this, you mentioned, you know a bunch of different bullet points that you look at like expected stats, you know, weather induced as well where you're standing on the mound. I mean there's there's a whole number of different factors that go into these how do you whittle those down into putting that into into one composite picture. 00:49:55 Speaker 4: Right whatever you see? I think Brian Kenny put up some pretty old examples from twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, but it's been for since since I first started working with Dan, just a constant cycle of what's wrong with this? Where is this falling short? And what can I put into this thing confidently and not blow it up but then still be able to boil it down and hand it to that it'd have a music, you know, that didn't even touch umpires or weather or you know, a lot of the things that are in there now. The very first maps were also hot garbage. They were I think Fangrafts still has it. They had a what is it, a runs above average per hundred pitches something like that, and Dan Stralia had seen that and he's like, that's hot. I want that, And then' like okay, so kind of try to replicate it. Then I'm like, well, do you know what goes into runs above average? And do we want to talk about maybe something custom of what we're trying to do that you know, how much is this is this is a whift word. How much is it called strike work? Does it matter? What the counter is? All that stuff. So there's this whole evolution just for Australia. And then as other guys added and we you know, how come my map isn't changing. They're like, well, this is history that you know, there was a that was the big breakthrough of like, let's make it predicted. Who why do we care about what happened other than what what do I do now? What's my best chance of success now? And that's really where that's really where it thankfully lined up with a lot of what I've done with the banking, I mean, because that's all predictive stuff. Nobody really cares. You know, this person has acted like this, how are they going to act in the future? Applied that to baseball, So what you see, I mean, they're really I'm sorry to groan. I mean, there are billions of calculations every day that run to try to guess the future based on all the things we've seen moving around in the rubber is a big deal. And you wouldn't believe how many guys are calling me, especially in the off season, but even during a season like uh, In fact, I'll just say it. This is you know, isn't mind. But Jake Deepmon, who I just love, love him to death, but he's you may notice a little bit of a pattern. I like these like lefty Flinger guys. You'll see a lot of done up there, like Sehaan Andya guys like that. But he's like, man, there's just something wrong. My slider just doesn't have the same zip and Pat, I'm not getting the same reaction from it. And we go, I don't. I don't watch these guys release points all the time because you can mess a guy up. General Usually it's they come to me and say something's wrong before you go there, generally speaking, And that's what he was doing. And go look and the guy's over like a foot and a half, Like why did you move somebody? Some coach told me to move them? But but why? But why? I mean, there, if there's a reason, and that's true, let's talk about it. It doesn't mean it's wrong, but let's talk about it. And you know, I showed him the path of his pitches from where he normally flings it versus where he was suddenly doing it closer to the center. And it's just like banging practice now, and then he's then he's you know, trying to throw harder and trying to make it move more, and then you're just you're just done. And he couldn't correct it in time, and then that was it. The White Sox let him go and then raised got a free So he's fixed it, sense. I don't know if he saw him dismantle bow the Black the other day, but I mean, not that that's totally fair lefty and lefty, but he's back to having the confidence, and that's that. He's a good example of somebody who sometimes you can go take it apart and like look at the grip and the release points, and it's you know, are you sending as much? And that's difficult. Sometimes it's as simple as yeah, I just kind of moved on the rubber a little bit, like you can't you can't expect that not to matter. So sometimes you're fortunate and it's a simple thing. 00:53:53 Speaker 2: Okay, So your answer there just sparked a really good question, which is how much do players have to balance what you tell them versus what their teams are telling them. 00:54:04 Speaker 4: I think they're all different. I do have a lot of private clients who smuggle the Codify intel into the hotel room and try to study it so that when someone calls a slider they know where to work. Other guys, a lot of the giants were taking it to meetings, which was just wild because in the very beginning best reposing early on was like way against like code of five, like this is not coming anywhere near I know better, And frankly, I mean he had who you're going to listen to if you're a giant picture, you know what I mean? I get it, I get it. But by his last season he was asking Gosman and Logan Web. He's at, hey, you got your Codify stuff. Let's go sit down with the Giant stuff and the Codify stuff and let's look at it. And you know, there's a lot of places like hey, Kevin Gosman, you should throw a splitter down at this guy's knees, like no, no kidding, yeah, But the Codeify stuff would show him how far I go down to this guy? You know, how far out can I go to that guy? And where it didn't line up. Then they would have their debates and a lot of times Gosmen's just like I've been going with this and it's been working, and he went and made a hundred but of a million dollars doing it. So that helps with the next interaction. But to answer your question on another long way, it's all they're all different, and it just depends depends on the attitude of the team and the attitude of the player. I don't know if you know, but like Lucas Giolito will take his PlayStation on the road and play the show. He'll print out his codify maps and he'll play the game using the maps, and that's his way of memorizing, like getting in his head so when he's out there on the mountain caveman mode, he can remember this stuff because it's not that easy to remember. I mean, there's as much detail this stuff as you want to see, but I don't know that I could remember all, you know, thirteen fourteen maps whatever I have to study for today, perfect detail. 00:56:01 Speaker 1: So so these pictures have maps for every hitter they would face on a given day. 00:56:08 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the one thing that every client uses, are these maps. So you can hear about the maps a lot because that's one thing that they all use. Some guys have count specific stuff. Some guys are but everybody has at least one just kind of I hate to call it generic with all the millions of calculations, but kind of a fundamentally this guy's weak here and as long as you're not, you know, throwing six sliders in our other Aaron judge you you know this is gonna work if you're if you're mixing well some but some guys, but some guys want more. Some guys want to strike maps like okay, you just double the stuff you have to memorize. So yeah, it's not easy. 00:56:47 Speaker 2: Yeah, what is it? 00:56:50 Speaker 1: More of a general question because you see now you see working with all your clients, you see a lot of pitching and heard pitching. Ninja ask you this question on a podcast you guys did over a year ago, which I thought was a great question for someone who studies pitching as much as you do. What what is a trend that you see this year, but let's say over the last calendar year in terms of pitchers and what they do. And I guess some teams that accept that more than others. 00:57:21 Speaker 4: Hmm, Well, this year with all the I'm sure I didn't say this last year with all the rule changes. Definitely the thing that hasn't really been addressed is pitch calling some teams. Some teams have been more proactive and how they determine who calls the pitches. You're still not really seen anything but the pitcher and catchers, which is interesting because it doesn't really have to be limited with the app Like everybody's you know, really antsy about getting stuff stolen and all that stuff. But a lot of pitchers have just been like, hey, I'm you know, I used to have time. I you know I have five pitches. You're my ketcher. Okay. Last year I could sit there like this until you call a pitch I want to throw. Right, Who's gonna stop me? Nobody's gonna stop me. And now you've gotten to the fifth pitch. If it took me that long, and I'm gonna throw the pitch that I want to throw, this is the pitch I wanted you to call. This is the pitch I'm gonna throw. It's not happening now. In a lot of cases, if you have five pitches and you didn't have the little PitchCom on your wrist and call it the pitch yourself, what happened? You don't have time to shake four times, so you're like, well, I'm either all in with this ketcher or I'm throwing a pitch with that condiction. I still think that there's a lot left for pictures to harvest there. You know, some of my guys are just like, I'm just gonna study my brains out and then let my picture control or excuse me, let my ketcher control the mix. And I mean, you almost have to fool yourself into thinking that's the best thing to do, because again, conviction gets you through a lot of our things. So as far as the trend goes, it's funny that the teams, you know, the way teams have approached this new dynamic has very quite a bit. And some teams, I know, through the great mind, have really pushed their pitchers to do one or the other, and others have just been like, you do whatever the hell you want. I didn't really push you before, why would I push you now. It's just fascinating that you guys spend billions of dollars on these players, and you've seen the binders of stuff and just every stat you want they have somewhere. But what happens so they don't really they don't really mold what's happening at the pitch level. They kind of leave that up with the pitcher and catchers so much, which is fascinating. And then what I definitely noticed still is after the fact, they aren't really coming back and going Heylisleah, yeah, I know, I told you to throw a slider to that guy, but sorry that didn't work out. I shouldn't have told you that. Instead, they're going to arbitration that that off season, and they're like, you gave up a home rune, like you told me to throw it there, Like that's not a factor in arbitration. So you know, you've seen guys go drive line a lot too obviously over the years. You know you're gonna go where it helps your career. So that's a big trend, is how much teams are embracing that. And and you know, I have to admit I thought i'd have fewer guys that are private codify guys now, but I still do. I'm sof guys don't Hey, can we keep this hushsh You've been playing in the big leagues for eight years? What what is it gonna what do you think is gonna happen? I mean, what's what's the deal? But okay, I mean I want to work with you. So that's fascinating to me. I get that. If you've never heard of Code of Fi and there was no track record, you got a vet. Who the hell is this guy? You know? But there's a train Africa down there now. And then seems like the Giants have been like, I mean, Andrew Bailey cold called me. I'm like this Andrew Bailey, this guy pitched for the A's, you know, is this Andrew Bailey? Andrew Bailey? Yeah, I can't begin this. Andrew Baylor with the San Francisco Giants, H hi, I hear you give it maps to my guys, you know, like I just want to, you know, talk to you about what they are and all this stuff. And then in fifteen minutes he's like, oh, so we get three wins because you help these guys and we don't have to pay for it. Okay, and you're gonna show you're not hiding the maps show. So the Giants were very progressive. Other teams are just like literally literally having meetings. I won't say who I sho really shouldn't literally had a meeting. The entire purpose was not outside help was Code of five thou shout not he's CODA file. Fortunately, Fortunately, there were two people, two really good clients in the group that stood up and started just reciting their stats from the previous year, and they're like, what the hell are you doing? You're like, these are our STAPs from last year. If you if you can help us more, if you can completely replace what codified us for us, we'll be happy to do it. But why on earth would we not want to continue to ease So anyway, there's a lot the game is constantly changing. Uh, there's so many more things to come. This automated strike calling thing, it's just going to be. Nobody really knows how insane it's gonna be. No one's listening, Like I feel like the old man in cloud thing. The only time I ever feel like it is when I talk about the thing. They haven't addressed of how the strike zones they've said all along will be based on hype and not your your stamps. They've said it all along, Well, what's Wan Soda going to do? One SODA's strike zones the size of a postage stamp. Because he crouches down, swings low right, what sounded like belling'ser going to do. Suddenly you can't get Bellinger with that. You know you're going to lose a strip at the top of the zone. Judge as well. It's gonna be a radical change for guys, and maybe they'll change what they do. But that's gonna be huge, man, And it's gonna happen because they're just missing to the calls. The pitches were going too fast. Have you guys ever been near like near it, like near a pitch, a major league pitch. I don't mean during any game, but like a bullpen session or maybe from the stand, from the stands or yeah, I mean pretty close. There was a spring There was a spring training the Nationals asked me to come out and they were showing me that the backfields and Matt Scherzers out there out on this hill throwing, and I'm staring at him and they're like, come on, come on, you know, come over this way, and like, okay, this is like Da Vinci painting over there on that hill. I'm going over Like you can't go over there. I'm like, I'm going to go over there, though, you're gonna have to call security. It's map schures or And I ended up behind this green screen, like a tennis court wall screen or whatever, and the catcher was like leaning against it and catching him. So I was like sixty three feet away from Millinears pitching. And I will never attack an umpire for not being able to call, you know, an insanely high amount. And now some of them are not dead, obviously, but I mean, just the human eye can't. I can't do it, not of mine. It's certainly not my age. All the all the umpires should be you know, under thirty because that's when your eyes start to go bad and all that stuff. But we can't. We will never have perfection, obviously. So sometimes you'll see them on my Twitter account, you might perceive a little bit of umpire bashing, but I try to go out of my way to say, this is really hard. They're missing a lot of calls, but it's really hard. 01:05:00 Speaker 1: You think you empire, you think you umpire, Bachelot, we have a whole segment, Yeah, so do you? 01:05:06 Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, you know, nine calls a game, so yeah, and you know what that So sometimes it's about the miss balls and strikes calls, but sometimes it's about things like Alfonso Marquez throwing Christian Walker out of the game because he had to, like he was clapping after a walk. It's things like that. 01:05:25 Speaker 4: So that's that's easy, right, Yeah, exactly. 01:05:29 Speaker 2: Okay, I've got to ask this too. You don't have to tell us who it was that had a whole meeting about not using code of I if I had to guess, is that two teams that are not very an analytically driven. 01:05:42 Speaker 4: You know, I would tell you that that's a I like how you got to that guess and it's actually a bad guess. Oh but how about if I just tell you that it seemed that thinks they're good analytically, like maybe they even made a movie about them. 01:05:57 Speaker 2: Anyway, how about that? Okay, So I did want to ask you. Oh, go ahead, tej No, go ahead. Oh So I did want to ask you a little bit about this because this is a point I've wanted to start to make about asking people maybe a generation of baseball ahead of us, this question, which is so a lot of people that listen to this podcast know that we're very analytically driven, were bought in on the advanced stats we talk about, and we try to explain to the people because we're trying to push the game along, like we're trying to get people away from batting average and things like that a little bit. But a lot of people that are older than us that listen to this podcast and talk to us a little bit about it say like, you know, I don't understand any of this stuff. How was all this stuff quantified? Where did you learn this stuff? And for us, I think we started learning it by the time we were old enough to comprehend it. In high school, I watched a lot of MLB Network where they explained a lot of this stuff, but I kind of grew up with it. For you, and for you, what point in your life did you start to hear some of this stuff, some of the advanced stats, especially toward pitching, and you started to there and say, oh, this makes a lot of sense and people should be buying into this stuff. 01:07:05 Speaker 4: And to anyone, Wow, Bill James first baseball abstract. I read his first one before the second one came out, and of course from then on he was I mean, if there's anybody that was not physically but a mentor, I mean it's definitely Bill James. Just just the kind of a scientific approach of let's just look at this and see now he didn't have shit to work with that. I mean you're pulling up, you're pulling up open to the Baseball Encyclopedia, which you may not even know what that was, but it's this massive effect. I have one behind me. It's massive, you know, ten thousand page book and you're sifting through it hoping to see how many batsome guy had. Certainly none of the I mean that no detail whatsoever. Definitely back then right away is just hey, there's so much more to this game, and it's not. I mean, anybody that says baseball is boring, like, just comes sit with me one game, because there's just so much going on. There's so much nuance, and now we're finally getting to wear damn that they can track everything. A guy drops his hat and they can literally tell you the rpns on his hat as it tumbles to the ground, the speed of his hat. A streaker runs on the field like, well we picked them up. We don't. We don't really want to do that, but I mean, the cameras are going and they're looking for people to track, and it's tough though the older fans. There's definitely a crew. In fact, I think it was through Tom tango. Right, you talk about batting average and starts foaming at the mouth. I mean it's like, you know, if he could abolish, if he could push a button and batting average cease to exist forever, he would push it before you finished asking them if he wanted to. I don't really think that. I still tells you something that's obviously not anywhere near perfect stab, but it still tells you something. And I think it's kind of the ticket into I think to your point of like, here's an older fan who you know you known't batting averages? Right, Okay, well let's step into the seleting percentagelet's step into on base percentage. Hey, we found out if we add these things together it means something. And you know you can have your WRC plus or whatever. It's like that correlates with ops so tightly. What is it really necessary? A lot of people think it is. I'm like, hey, you know, it depends on your audience. I don't think you buy enough with a general FANDUS to keep splitting up. And then you ask play Snell on a national broadcast what the hell are WRC plus is? And he's like, who knows, I don't know what the hell it is. I'm just trying to big guys up. So it's too bad because the I think everybody has a taste for how much detail they want to go into in a baseball game. And what's really cool is now there's as much as you want that we haven't even seen anything yet. You see the post today about the stuff they're going to add with base running, and they catch your framing and catch your pop time, just all the stuff that you need matter that he couldn't quantify before. It's great for us. How are they gonna full that in for somebody that goes to one game a year or one game every three years, or watches it on TV? You know. Just it's interesting because it's a moving target and you have millions of targets, and I don't know how they're gonna necessarily be It's a big challenge. 01:10:23 Speaker 1: Last question from me, Michael. You mentioned to us before we started this interview how much of a Finn you were of watching Bryce Miller. And we've really enjoyed watching his three starts. As we're recording, he will have started a fourth time by the time this episode comes out. But it's such a unique arsenal he has. It's fascinating to watch what he does with his fastball and his breaking pitches as well. He really is. There's just there's not that many pitchers I would say directly like him that people the comp a light comp of Spencer Streder, which is pretty lofty of the two profiles, was thrown to him, which I think is great and which makes people much more optimistic. But when you watch him, I mean, what really stands out from just analyzing his game and what he does to manipulate the baseball? 01:11:10 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think fetish is not really a word I like to use in general circles, especially baseball, But if I have a baseball fetish, one of them is definitely low drop on your fastball, including gravity. You know, people, some people look at the you know how much of my influence in its arise, But let's just look at it. Let's keep it real. I mean, the ball is leaving, the guy's animates dropping, that's the number we look at more often, and in his very first start. I mean, I have it up because I've heard, you know, I've seen what he's done in the minors. I have no reason to think he's not going to keep doing it, but no boom eight inches, boom seven inches, nine inches, six inches. Oh my god, that's elite. And it's to the point where a batter can know and they do. If you don't know, Ice Miller is going to throw you fifty or sixty fastballs today, you're you're not doing any homework whatsoever. They know they're coming that. It's so good. It's it's so hard to wire your brain to do what you need to do to hit that baseball that you can't hit that baseball and you can see, I mean, you see what's happening. I mean, they're going to hit it. Sometimes they hit striders. Sometimes it's not it's not really a bad pomp. It sounds crazy because I mean, strider's amazing, But but that the oh god, this fastball is just insane. And uh, that just buys you a ticket everywhere, because like, what do you have to do as a hitter to hit that? What if you throw one hundred percent fastballs? You have your hands fall, but he's not going to So now what I mean you have to give You have to devote so much of your energy to do and what you have to do hit that fastball? What are you gonna do when he doesn't throw you fastball, and now you're screwed because because you can't, you just can't do it. And that's what you're seeing when you add up the numbers of when he's and you're like, damn, that was really dominant. This is not lucky. I'm not saying he's gonna have exactly that average stat line forever, but it's he's gonna he's healthy. Man, he's gonna be good. He's gonna be really good. And if there's anything it's the fast I mean, it's. 01:13:17 Speaker 2: It's funny. TJ knows this story, but just a little quick thing here. Both of us spent a couple of years broadcasting games in the Cape Cod League when we were in college. And the first, yeah, the first opposing arm I ever saw was some Clemson righty named Spencer Stryder, and he went like three and two thirds innings, gave up two or three runs, and I thought basically nothing of him. And a few years later and he has this sensational rookie year for the Braves. I'm like, oh, that Spencer Strider, like the guy I saw pitching the Cape League goes like like, what a drastic change in four years. I mean, it was just a crazy whirlwind. And obviously he was so much different back then, but I always think it's crazy to see that come full circle. But just a little quick tidbit was right that No. 01:13:59 Speaker 4: It's I mean it's it's it's talked about a lot and it's sexy now, but I think we still sell it short. How much that even just that extra inch or two of drop minimization call it rise matters. When Leam Hendricks saw me from Japan when he wanted to start, and he was looking for confidence, but he was also like, how do I reschool what I'm doing? Because I'm chucking the ball and pressing like the kas Minion Dougle and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. And we looked at that and I think he could know, I mean, how elite his basketball is. It's not just the speed, but I mean ten ten inch average drop, and you know he's trying to come back now, he's been in the minors rehabbing and you know the velocities. The one game was the ninety four to ninety five and he wasn't really happy with that. We were keen on that. That's how much does it dropping? He's dropping eleven inches, Like you're pretty close to being there. You're intoto where like, let's just make sure it's going where you want it to go. And but I mean a bat you know, you have to swing about a certain way within a certain area. And nobody's swinging the bat that's three inches wide. It's illegal. So I mean, what does it mean? What does it mean to add three inches of rice to your fastball? 01:15:09 Speaker 2: Right? 01:15:10 Speaker 4: It's crazy? I mean it's crazy. And you just you can't. I mean, you know, thank god, I haven't had to hit these guys, But you can't wire your brain to do what you need to do. You have you see some batters saying I'm just gonna swing. I know he's trying to throw high and I know it rises, and you're seeing some batteries. Just go screw it. I'm all in on a swing. Hi. You've seen some swinging strikes and some contacts that are like a foot of of the zone that he never used to see. Those are guys selling out. There's no way they're reading whether it's a strike or not going. They're selling out saying I'm going to swing at this pitch. I'm gonna hobby bias this thing, and sometimes that's your best bet. 01:15:47 Speaker 1: Right is the is the is the fastball itself the reason pitching today is better than it ever has been. 01:15:56 Speaker 4: Oh, boy, I I think so. I mean you think just when I helped Dan, I mean how the sexy pitch was the sinker or a two singers? Oh, it's so sexy. It's like, okay, that's great, but I mean, where are the stats to back that up? Well, it's sexy because it goes faster. It's like, yeah, but you're slugging on the sinker's worse than just your your fortem er. What what's the point? But you could throw it two miles now faster, Like that wasn't that long ago. And now there's an appreciation of how much it matters to get rising a fastball. You are starting to see. It's fascinating because back you know, back then, if he through ninety six, like it doesn't necessarily even matter nice six ninety seven, doesn't really matter the shape because you're throwing nice six ninety seven. These guys don't see it that much back then. And now it's like that's kind of an average slightly about average fastball and these guys are prepping for that. Now you're starting to see. And we were talking about Tommy Malone, Hey, tol me, throw me your fastball. Throws are like, no, throw me your fastball, Like, yeah, that was my fastball, you know, I mean it screws your timing up. These guys don't go into the case just like, throw me eighty eight, you know, like, not a fastball anyway, Throw me something with some tail or whatever. Pretend to change it, but not a fastball. So the norm is shifting. The way guys prepare for that is shifting. That's another challenge I have with my maps is watching how the game evolves and trying to stay ahead of that too, because you can only can only change things so much. And it's like sometimes it's like, don't keep chasing your tail to throw harder because if it's not going to buy you anything. 01:17:29 Speaker 2: Last question I have for you, Michael, is to get one more Mariner's question in if you go on your Twitter bio, you'll see that one of the guys you have worked with is Paul Sewaald, who has totally resurrected his career, has had now three consecutive really good seasons in a row, which you almost never see from relievers these days. And the way he's changed his pitch sequencing in philosophy, it's pretty incredible because now he's all about throwing high fastballs and a lot of sliders, which he wasn't doing back with the Mets. So from what you've seen of him, how incredible is it that he's been able to turn his career around like this. 01:18:06 Speaker 4: It's incredible. We worked a lot closer back in that transition from the Next to the Mariners, and we try to get an understanding of what are you working with. He's like, right now, it's sink or slider. He called the sinker then, and I just have to figure out, like how do I mix it, and how which guy's good against which bitch versus the other, and how do you know? But there are just like with every guy, there's some surprises like, well, you know, I don't need to worry about this thing running so much. I actually don't want it to run that much. I'm okay with kind of attacking a guy up and away with this thing. It's really hard to hit. And I think, I mean, he's done a lot to improve his career, but one thing was definitely. I think I can attest that just understanding how his stuff played and not just how well. You know, there's six guys on my teams, so sinkers, and the team's telling us all the same thing, like, yeah, it's not the same answer for all you and your answer is this to these guys, and you know, he just it doesn't it doesn't take much with some guys. And if you go back and look at twenty eighteen and twenty nineteen, not only are the numbers not as good, but he's not screaming and yelling. He's fitting like he does now either. I mean it. Confidence is such a big thing, and he definitely bought some confidence with some of the stuff that he learned from us. Hey this is I mean, I'm fighting for my life right now, but you're telling me that this step plays against the best guys right here if I can execute it, and that's you know, you hope that's true. But to have some guy telling you that that told like trying in that and Sean Doolittle and whoever the heck else I was just starting to work with, then you know, okay, maybe it's true. I mean, he just he's kind of turned into an animal. He's he's amazing. Well, I love I mean love so do we Yeah, I mean nothing bad to say. 01:19:54 Speaker 1: About he is Michael Fisher. You can find him on Twitter at Code of five Baseball, tweets out a bunch of great stats, does some great works from many arms, and I believe also some catchers and such around Major League Baseball helping really just understand all these numbers that we have available to us. Now, Michael, we appreciate you taking some time to join us today. We learned a lot. 01:20:17 Speaker 4: Thanks for having me, guys. 01:20:21 Speaker 2: Great interview with Michael Fisher of Code OFFI. We appreciate all of his time and like we said, we certainly learned a lot. All right, TJ, let's head down on the farm. So who are you looking at this week? 01:20:36 Speaker 1: It's gonna be a first we continue to do. First, I'm gonna highlight Robbie t Enarowitz. He's got an interesting last name, me as noted as you would know lyle a pronunciation savant, I would say, so, I'm kind of proud of myself that I managed to nail that one. But he's not a top thirty prospect. They got him from the Reds last season. For twenty seventh round pick of by Tampa Bay in the twenty sixteen draft out of cal and infielder. He is lighting up double A this year three h two, four, twenty six, five forty seven, been remarkably consistent, eight home runs, thirty four RBIs in his seventh minor league season eight. There's still a chance at the big league's for him. And what did you say? He's called the Bird. 01:21:23 Speaker 2: So he was in the Reds organization previously, and apparently the nickname people gave him was bird, So I think that's what people call him, you know, pretty casually. I'm sure he's called Robbie sometimes, but some people do call him Bird. 01:21:36 Speaker 1: Well. Bird is flying through double A right now. He's hitting pretty well. It's not out of the question. You could see Tacoma this year if they feel like they need an infield bad up there. 01:21:49 Speaker 2: I would like to say, if you pulled up your Baseball Savant page, your name pronunciation category, I'd put it fifteenth percentile. So it's it's blue. It's not quite Jesse Winkers defense. It's not like bright blue, but it's blue. 01:22:03 Speaker 1: It's not good. Right up right next to my up right next to my spelling as well. 01:22:07 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 01:22:08 Speaker 1: I think in this I think has a big fat zero next to it. Yeah, zero in the darkest shade of blue you could possibly get. 01:22:16 Speaker 2: Those two categories are right next to each other on baseball savant and and and the bubbles. They're not too far off. But there are some good bats down in Double A that have been hitting. We've talked about Spencer Packard, We've now talked about Bird. We've talked about a couple other guys too. Yeah, Double A has some bats that you can kind of I won't say dream on, but keep some tabs on because I know a lot of guys in Triple A are hitting right now. I know Double A is mostly focused on the arms, but there are some good bats down in Arkansas. One of them has been Bird because he's been hitting really well. So this past weekend I was out in Arkansas, or no, I was not out in Arkansas this past week and. 01:22:55 Speaker 1: I was a trip down south. 01:22:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I had to fly into where would you fly into? What's a big hub of it? Yet, what's that little rock? Can you even fly into little rock from Seattle? 01:23:08 Speaker 4: Uh? 01:23:09 Speaker 1: It's a good question. 01:23:10 Speaker 4: I don't know. 01:23:11 Speaker 2: I feel like you might have to drive to New Orleans or fly to New Orleans and make the drive. Geez, we're all over the place with this segment. Anyway, I did not go all the way to Arkansas this past weekend. I went to Everett. That's about a thirty minute drive. It was great. One of the guys I got to see this weekend was Alberto Rodriguez, and that's who I'm gonna highlight this week because we have not talked about this guy, but he is a guy that, yeah, keep an eye out for him because this past week he was seven for twenty seven. I know that doesn't come out to a high batting average, but he had four extra base hits along with hitting about two sixty for the week. He had two doubles, one triple, and one home run. The home run I saw live and it was absolutely demolished out to right center. This guy, in case you haven't been paying attention. For the year, he is hitting just under three hundred. His ops is point zero one shy of nine hundred, so it's at eight ninety nine. He is wrc plusing one thirty nine with the Aqua Sox, so he's been thirty nine percent of league average as a hitter, and he's been killing it. Like the the Aqua SoCs are another team that have some real bats. And keep in mind, this is a guy the Mariners got in exchange for giving the Blue Jays six starts of Taiwan Walker back in twenty twenty, which resulted in the Blue Jays getting the eighth seed in that twenty twenty playoff bracket, losing in two games to the Rays, who went on to win the American League. And Taiwan Walker did not sniff the mound during that postseason. So in return, the Mariner's got a guy who's in his low twenties with a lot of potential and he's off to a great start. 01:24:43 Speaker 1: Yeah he's He wasn't the Rodriguez we were highlighting the past couple of years in the minor league system. But there's definitely again tools there, and again you didn't really lose anything to gain him. So that's kind of one of those wild cards you focus on, and hey, I know he's already been on the I think he's already been on the forty man rock, hasn't he. Yeah, Yeah, so there is reason to protect So it makes sense why the Mariners would do. That was that I'm trying to remember the dimensions of Funco Field that home run out to right center was. Is it a short porch out there? 01:25:16 Speaker 2: Oh, it's short. I mean, ever, it's a bambox of a ballpark, so it is short. That being said, it wasn't a wall scraper of a home run. He absolutely crushed it. And he was also demolishing baseball's way out of the yard and batting practice that day too, Like he puts on a show during VP and then he got one there in the first ending of that game. So yeah, he's got real power. He's only got two home runs so far this year, but there's power in there. And look, most prospects are lottery tickets. The Mariners took a lottery ticket in exchange for Taiwan Walker in a twenty twenty season where they didn't have a ton of playoff aspirations. And we'll see what he pans out to. But the ceiling there is something to be excited about. 01:25:57 Speaker 1: And I think it has worked out pretty well. Okay, let's zoom out and let's get to our mb wrap around up first, on the MLB Wrap Round, I think this is kind of a notable subject because the discourse of spending always hangs over our heads and we question well things every day we look at a team that did really spend this offseason. While the Padres won last night, sitting here recording on a Monday, they did win last night to improve to twenty one and twenty six on the season with one of the worst offenses in baseball. It's kind of puzzling that a team with Juan Soto, Xander Bogarts, and Manny Machado could possibly be this bad offensively, but they have been. 01:26:51 Speaker 2: Should I add Fernando Tatis Junior into that question. 01:26:54 Speaker 1: Yeah, outfielder Fernando Tatis Junior. 01:26:58 Speaker 2: The San Diego Padres are currently twenty fourth in team ops twenty sixth then runs scored. They are last in total team hits. Listen, I know a lot of people in Mariners Land are panicking right now. They're sweating. They don't like that the offense has been scuffling. But let's not only keep in mind that the Mariners are still floating right above, right around the five hundred mark, but they were also way under five hundred last year. But to put it in perspective, here's a Padres team that had expectations, probably even loftier than the Mariners, and they're just not cutting it right now. 01:27:32 Speaker 1: Here's some notable guys that are scuffling. One guy who's not is one Soda. The last two weeks, he's been unbelievable. He's been tearing the cover off the baseball and finally kind of looks like the Washington Nationals version of one. So oh, and by the way, he's only still just twenty four years old. Outside of that, Xander Brogart's had a great first two weeks of the season. Since that, he is rocking in eighty one WRC plus the last month of the season. Many Machado he is a hairline fracture in his third metacarpal, which is right in about the middle of your hand, underneath your middle finger, and he has resulted in eighty one WRC plus for the entire season. His bat at ball data stinks and he's been trending down, especially in May. Seventy three WRC plus in that month. Manny near MVP last year, a big reason the Padres are able to go all the way to the NLCS. He's been a ghost of himself this year. Thankfully, Fernando, on his return, has done exactly what he was doing when he was healthy before he got hurt last time, which is be an unbelievable talent on the field. This time, I guess added with a few more accusations his way and a few more clouds over his head, But him and Soda are hitting the rest of the Padres seem though it has finished struggle. 01:28:50 Speaker 2: There's other guys you can throw into this equation too, Jake Cronenworth, the guy they really rely on in that offense. Below league average is a bat so far hasan kim below league average. You just highlighted a Xander Bogart's the last few weeks have been really, really brutal for the year. His WRC plus is one's seventeen, so seventeen percent above league average. It's fine as a whole. That's not what you pay two hundred and eighty million dollars for to be fine, or it's slightly above league average. They've got things to figure out. The Mariners offense needs to get going. Yes, they are not the only ones with problems at the plate right now. 01:29:27 Speaker 1: And here's some glaring numbers here from San Diego. You mentioned overall for the season in runners with runners in scoring position, they're one ninety six batting average with runners in scoring possession, dead last in the majors. WRC plus and on base percentage, which is seventy three and two ninety three respectively, are second to last, and they're slugging percentage with runners in scoring position three point thirty three is third to last. I mean, those numbers should not exist with a team with this much offensive talent on it, and yet it is. It. 01:30:00 Speaker 2: It just goes to show, I'll say it. At this point of the season here in mid to late May, things may change, but it doesn't. But spending like a madman does not always guarantee success. We're seeing it right now with the Padres. The Mets are starting to get the gears going, but they've had issues too through the first couple of months. So yeah, it's been a tough stretch for the Padres. And you just mentioned the runners in scoring position numbers. There again, another thing people always talk about with the Mariners. They seem to really struggle with the basis loaded with guys in scoring position. Well, the Padres are doing it worse than them. So again, the Mariners are not alone. It's frustrating, but they're not alone. 01:30:39 Speaker 1: Their pitching staff has been I guess fine. I mean it's it hasn't been great. It's it's it's been up and down, I would guess, to say the least. So I'd say it's mostly the offense dragging it back. But you see the difference of having a very a near bottom of the barrel offense to pair with a up and down pitching staff, and you see five games under five hundred versus a team with a top three pitching staff in baseball and a bottom of the barrel offense as of right now. So I mean that's probably the difference. 01:31:10 Speaker 2: I would agree, And we'll see how the padres fair going forward. You would think it's gonna improve, but we're gonna have to watch because there are teams every year that seem to go below expectations and don't live up to the hype. So we'll have to see how it goes. Storyline number two here easily the dumbest storyline I have seen all season. Aaron Judge just recently was accused of cheating. He was done so on air with the Mics on by the Toronto Blue Jays. Broadcast team because he was caught kind of glaring over with peripheral vision, kind of out of the corner of his eyes, back toward the first base dugout back during that Yankees Blue Jays series in Toronto, and all these cheating allegations came out about Judge with absolutely no facts behind it, no cold hard facts, just speculation and then led to nothing. 01:32:01 Speaker 1: I don't even know how you cheat in that situation. What could Judge see that Nobody else on the field, especially from the Blue Jays dugout, who can look right into the Yankee dugout, like, what would they see? How would that be possible? 01:32:17 Speaker 2: I don't know. My answer to that is I don't know, because you're right, and he barely It's not like he was a full head turn staring at something in the dugout. He took a little glance. Anybody with the Blue Jays could have glanced over at their dugout, any of the umpires could have glanced over at their dugout. I don't know what he could have been looking at. That was so groundbreaking. If people are worried about sign stealing, well I've got news for you. PitchCom now exists. And if you're a pitcher and you're using PitchCom and your signs are still getting stolen, that's on you. Nobody should be stealing your signs with the use of PitchCom. There is nothing that Judge did wrong. There was no even evidence to accuse him of cheating. And somehow the Blue Jays broadcast team and people and some of the Blue Jays coaches seem to be very adamant. 01:33:02 Speaker 4: That he was. 01:33:04 Speaker 1: Oh, and then the Blue Jays reliever Jay Jackson came out and said he was tipping his pitches like it's as simple as that. Yeah, guy, a hitter as good as Aaron Judges obviously get if you're tipping your slider to throw it right down the middle, Aaron is gonna be like home. Yeah, he's throwing me a slider right down the middle, and I'm gonna hit it four hundred and sixty feet to dead center field, Like, yeah, he's gonna, he's gonna. It's gonna look like he's cheating because you're telling him what's coming. 01:33:31 Speaker 2: You know what that home run did. It knocked off some of the sculpting of that maple leaf and center field at the Rogers Center. It straight up broke a piece of that maple leaf. That's how hard he hit that home run. So, yeah, how does Aaron Judge respond to cheating accusations by hitting four home runs in a three game series against the Blue Jays. The Yankees took care Toronto, and Aaron Judge played like one of the best players in baseball like he is. So you know what it goes to show? What do they say, talk shit, get hit. That is literally what happened. The Blue Jays talked some shit and Aaron Judge absolutely took advantage of Blue Jay's pitching and demolished them all series. 01:34:09 Speaker 1: What was funny is the petty war that came after where John Schneider started bitching and complaining about where the Yankees' bas coaches were standing, that they were not standing in the coach's box on the first and third base side, when nobody cares about that like nobody does. But because of this, the Blue Jays decided to point tell the umpires, hey, look look what they're doing. They're standing outside the coach's box. Just some of the stupidest stuff ever. Oh, if we want to talk about cheating, lyle, there were Yankees that got flagged for cheating. Last week, Domingo Herman got busted and suspended ten games for having his hand coded with sticky stuff. By the way, not the first time this season that he's had that. The first time that Elms just had him go wash his hands. Stupidest explanation ever. But this time, I mean, he's got gunk on his hand. 01:35:00 Speaker 2: How are the Yankees so bad at hiding this stuff with their pictures? You remember a few years ago when Michael Pineda had pine tar all over his body, his arm, his jersey, everywhere. They go out and take a look at him and they're like, yeah, you're gone. I mean, that was the easiest find we've ever had to make if you were an umpire. I don't know how the Yankees are so bad at hiding that stuff with their pictures. But yeah, there's an actual cheating scandal. Not what Aaron Judge was doing. Again, this was this was the dumbest story. 01:35:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, not even close. And Judge he handled it very professionally. He didn't I don't think he threw anyone under under the rug. He said he would have some choice words for especially the Blue Jays broadcast, but did not air them. Publicly, which you know, not like first take would pick it up anyways, but we would so unfortunate. Okay. Our third storyline of the week, while I guess a sour note for us, Josey al Tuvas back. 01:35:56 Speaker 2: He is back. He's only played a handful of games so far, but he got hit on the during the World Baseball Classic, broke his thumb, missed a couple of months. Now he's back. And oh, by the way, in very unsurprising fashion, the Astros have figured it out because they've now won seven in a row. They've won nine of their last ten, they said at twenty seven and nineteen, and they're just two games back at the Rangers in the Al West. This is what's such an eye roller for the Mariners is they had their chance to make some real ground while the Astros were playing five hundred baseball. Al Twove was out. Luis Garcia unfortunately goes down with Tommy John surgery. Their offense was not clicking, and now they get all two vay back. Now they're figuring it all out, and it kind of seems like the Astros are back, and the thing is. 01:36:42 Speaker 1: Their offense hasn't even like picked it up all that much overall, if you look at it on sort of a season long basis, they have, by ops plus, they have three hitters who are above average. Jord On Alvarez, who's that one fifty nine ops plus, so fifty nine percent better than league average, Kyle Tucker's at one twenty seven, and then Jake Myers is at one oh three. There's nobody else in their lineup who's above one hundred, right, and still they've managed to reel off and get back to within distance of the Rangers. And by the way, they probably have a more complete roster than the Rangers too, So we talk about, hey, where are the Rangers flaws at? Oh, it's in the bullpen. Houston's got a pretty damn good bullpen. So if we're trying to find poke like a weakness at the Texas Rangers and why the Astros would pass them, it's because of that. And now they've you know, they've got their all star second basement back, who, by the way, is coming off arguably the best hitting season of his career without percussionists being involved. 01:37:41 Speaker 2: Right, So. 01:37:44 Speaker 1: This this was a missed opportunity for the Mariners to make up that ground with the with Jose Altov being out. 01:37:51 Speaker 2: Jose al Tuova has been one of the best hitters in baseball for the last decade, and now if you look at that lineup, it's kind of back to where it was last year, where you've got al two by leading off Jeremy Paiana two, who yes, he struggled so far, but now if you're gonna sandwich him back between al Tuove and yord On Alvarez instead of Mauricio Dubon and yord On Alvarez, he's probably gonna start to see some more pitches. And you got jord On, and you got Bregman, then you got Kyle Tucker. We'll see what happens with Jose braw They still have to get Michael Brantley back again. Maren has had their chances with this, but I think the Astros are about to kind of figure it all out and start sailing here because getting out two Vay back, that's that's the key. 01:38:30 Speaker 1: And they haven't been getting much from their second basement anyways, So their second baseman this year have been essentially been league average bats and you know Jose al two v last year with the one fifty nine ops plus. 01:38:42 Speaker 2: Unfortunately, the Astros have been waiting for it, and I'm sure their philosophy was just tread water until al Twove gets back, and then let's hit the ground run. And then they seem to have hit the ground run and even a little bit before they got him back. But now that he is back and fully healthy, I think this points up for Houston. So that's your MLB wrap around a couple of interesting storylines this past week or so. Let's get to always our favorite segment, a Russell Wilson umpire of the week. 01:39:09 Speaker 1: You want to bring this one in congratulations to Eric Bacchus. Is that he pronounce his name. 01:39:16 Speaker 2: You know, usually i'd give you a hard time about your pronunciations, but that was my best guess too, So let's just say yes. 01:39:23 Speaker 1: Wow, wow, wow wow. Okay, that's gotta be a first coming out of your mouth. Okay, I know I'm usually good at this. 01:39:32 Speaker 4: Yeah. 01:39:34 Speaker 1: He was behind the plate for this past Saturday's Cubbs Phillies game. This was not a full game occurrence. While this was an occurrence for Cody Clemens, an outfielder was into pitch and a blow in a blowout. It was twelve three. He's facing Nick Madrigal, and he just lobs this forty eight mile per hour cookie about six inches off the outside corner, and it gets called the strike. And there's this wonderful clip of Booch Skabi who's in the booth, who just clearly says and that clips the corner even though it was, you know, six inches off the corner, made the rounds on Twitter. It was pretty it was, to be honest, the reason we're going to highlight that here today mostly is because it was funny. And I got to give credit to the umpire for just wanting to get out of there and get the game over with. 01:40:24 Speaker 2: Dude. That pitch was thrown at forty eight miles an hour. It was, so it was clocked as an ephis even though Cody Clemens, who, by the way, Roger Clemens' son but not much of a pitching background, was just lobbing baseballs in. He is lobbing them in. This ball must have missed six inches off the plate, and somehow this is called a strike. Look, we sit here and give umpires a hard time a lot of weeks because they miss a lot of strike calls. Their scorecard can be bad. They eject players too fast. But we legitimately could have sat back there and called that pitch a ball. These balls are being lobbed in by Cody Clemens, and they missed six inches about off the plate. If I'm exaggerating with that, it was it was a few inches off, and somehow it's called a strike. I think the best explanation is what you said, that he was just trying to get the game over with and get out of there and knowing it was a blowout. 01:41:21 Speaker 1: That's my best assumption. Either that or Yeah, dinner reservation a late dinner. 01:41:27 Speaker 2: I mean that might be, although I feel like that'd be a very late dinner reservation. 01:41:32 Speaker 1: Some people get hungry. 01:41:34 Speaker 2: Hey, there's some good places in Philly. Maybe you wanted a cheese steak. I don't know. 01:41:38 Speaker 1: That sounds pretty good. I'd go for a cheese steak. 01:41:41 Speaker 2: Oh, when you missed you missed it. When we were all ast last summer, our trip with all our friends and we went to Gym's to get Philly cheese steaks. Oh, they were real. 01:41:50 Speaker 1: I think still burnt down technically now. 01:41:53 Speaker 2: Oh, is that the one that got caught on fire? 01:41:56 Speaker 1: So I think so unfortunate. I need to go to that place, though, so when they read I'm gonna get whenever I find myself out there on the East Coast, I'm gonna I'm gonna have to go visit it. But congratulations to Eric Bacchus are Russell Wilson Umpire of the Week. And again we don't normally choose it based off of one pitch, but since this was just such a perfect clip, I thought that deserves it. Okay, let's wrap up the show with speak your Mind. 01:42:25 Speaker 4: Speak your mind spot. 01:42:30 Speaker 2: That would be unwise. 01:42:32 Speaker 1: What is necessary is never unwise. Mart lewll what's on your mind this week? 01:42:39 Speaker 2: I think it's the weather. I mean, maybe some people tab that as a boring conversation, but I am just so thrilled to see the sun and warm weather back. It's funny living in Seattle. TJ and I differ on this a little bit, where Tej's like, yeah, I don't mind the rain, like it's fine. No, I hate the rain, like I've hated it since I was a kid. I don't know how I've lived all my life dealing with it. But every summer around here, when it finally gets to be sunshine season, rain seems to pass. We get a lot of warm days. Oh, it's just so much easier to be in a better mood too. So like that's kind of how I feel with the sun out. I was like, thank goodness, it seems to be summer weather. 01:43:19 Speaker 1: You'd make great customer service small talk with how much you like talking about the weather. 01:43:23 Speaker 2: I know, I know, I mean it's true. And sometimes if you don't know a person and you just have to fill some time, right, We've all been there where you're trying to fill a conversation with something, Oh, nice weather, at least it's sunny out today, or you know, maybe you say, well, it's too bad it's raining today. I mean, why do you think I went to school at Arizona obviously first and foremost because the journalism school was great at ASU. But it's sunny all the time you get out of the rain. I mean, I mean, if you think that wasn't high on my list of priorities when applying to colleges past, what like the actual program I was going to be in was, you'd be mistaken. 01:44:00 Speaker 1: It's not that I don't mind the ray. I guess you just get used to it after a while. I don't know, I guess that's just like a way to think about it. I think it's just the lack of I would say light during the winters. I think a bigger deterioration than the actual rain itself. 01:44:16 Speaker 2: I think for me, I still have bad memories of how many baseball games would be canceled when I was a kid due to rain. And that's probably the biggest reason I hate it is it just drove me nuts. Always wanted to play and then games getting canceled, like you look forward to it all day, me like hating school my whole life. I would sit there, wait for the day to get over, be like, Oh, it's okay, it's gonna be a good day because I get to play a baseball game today. And then you get home and you get an alert, Oh game's canceled, and I would be furious. I would just be pissed off the rest of the afternoon and evening. 01:44:45 Speaker 1: Boy, they build a roof over it. 01:44:47 Speaker 2: Oh, don't get us started on that. Oh you want to start building roofs on Little League fields? 01:44:51 Speaker 1: Man, we have got it in the city budget. 01:44:54 Speaker 2: I was gonna say, we might have to start doing a lot of lemonade stands to make that happen. Doesn't mean that roof shouldn't be bill on big league stadiums, though they should all have them. They should all have them. See if my brother and my friend John are listening to this, and my brother at least probably is, they're gonna roll their eyes when they hear this conversation because they try to blow it back in my face every time we get on the conversation about roofs and I say every stadium should have one, and they're like, where's this money coming from? Like the owners are never gonna pay for it. And I'm saying, well, okay, this money coming from these owners, Like I was gonna say, you and I see eye to eye on this, Like these owners have so much money and they refuse to build roofs on these stadiums. 01:45:36 Speaker 1: Okay, let's do some quick and dirty man. How much should the Mets just sell for when they when Steve Combottom, do you remember off the top. 01:45:43 Speaker 3: Of your head, No, but it was over a billion dollars over a billion. I think it might have been four yeah, Oh okay, yeah, so way more than that. Okay, let's just put an example of how much that is worth. Me and you have both yet to live for a billion seconds in our lives. 01:46:00 Speaker 1: Think about that. Yeah, you want to know where the money's gonna come from. We have not lived for a billion seconds, and we're worried about where the money's gonna come from. To build a roof. They get the fuck out of here, man, Like, where's the money going to come from? 01:46:16 Speaker 2: It snows in Colorado and Minnesota in April, and when those stadiums got built, they were like, no, no roof. But yeah, this is this is a conversation just totally deteriorating from the fact that I'm happy that it's Sonny in Seattle again. And while I wasn't here last summer, I did hear that it took forever in the Pacific Northwest to get hot last year. It took till about July. So the fact that's warming up in May, like, give me all of it. I'll take it every day of the week. 01:46:43 Speaker 1: I'm gonna turn my speaker mind around to you, Lyle. What's up with the NBA script? I mean, it is completely opposite of what I think everybody in the NBA office is envisioned. What are we doing here? It is at the time of recording, it is nuggets are up three to nothing and Heat are up three to nothing. I believe if we're going the way we're going, both series will be over by the time this episode is released on Wednesday. So what's going on here? 01:47:13 Speaker 4: Dog? 01:47:14 Speaker 2: I know you've turned this on me a couple of times now to say, what in the world is the NBA doing with their script this year? Maybe they wanted to kind of get people's hopes up to think it was gonna be Lakers Celtics, but then they were like, oh, well, we can't make it that obvious. We can't just make it a Laker Celtics final. Just when we get everybody's hopes up, Oh now we're gonna totally spin a one eighty in the other direction. And now we're gonna have Heat and Nuggets in the finals, which, at least for the Heat nobody expected. So maybe they're trying to keep people on their toes because they can't make it blatantly obvious every year. Maybe they've got some extra money in the bank this year where they feel like they don't need a big market team in the finals. That would be my guess. 01:47:53 Speaker 1: Or they feed into the storyline where it's like, wouldn't it be amazing. If we had two teams come down from Rio and the conference finals, which has never been done before, and it just so happens it's the Lakers and the Celtics meeting in the finals. 01:48:07 Speaker 2: If that happened, oh, then then the script is on. 01:48:12 Speaker 1: Then the then the card for Patrick Ewing is frozen shut. That's what it is. 01:48:16 Speaker 2: Yeah, man, if that happened, let's circle back on the next speak your mind and really dive into that. But yeah, that's my guess. Maybe they've got some money allocated this year and some extra money to spare, and they said, hey, we can flip the script around this year. 01:48:31 Speaker 1: You know, maybe, you know, I might have an explanation for this. I think the NBA script writers were taking some time off from the playoffs and they instead went to the draft and said, instead, noticing San Antonio with a a generational international big sitting there at number one, like, huh, what has worked out so well before? Oh, the Spurs getting a the Spurs getting a generational French prospect. 01:49:00 Speaker 2: I mean not even just a French prospect, but the forwards or centers. It worked out with the Admiral and David Robinson, then it worked with Tim Duncan and it's probably gonna work with Victor Wenbin Yamas. So I mean, hey, if you're the NBA and you say we've got this generational talent, do we want to send him to Detroit? Do we want to send him to Charlotte? Or do we want to send him to Greg, Greg Popovich and San Antonio. That's our little way of putting him in a market where he's going to succeed, but also not making it blatantly obvious and putting him in one of the huge markets I. 01:49:29 Speaker 1: Know where they want to send him. Hey, Victor, don't you regret not coming to the New. 01:49:37 Speaker 2: Dude? We would have had to get a side talk video on the spot if the Knicks had ended up with the number one pick on the spot. The one the one they did this year after one of their playoff wins, was as absurd as the other one would have been, and it was hilarious. 01:49:52 Speaker 1: Some of my favorite clips on the internet. Ever, if you if you need something funny putse just go look up side Talk New York on YouTube and just click and. 01:50:01 Speaker 2: Not even side Talk New York. Look up side Talk New York nixt. There are now three videos that really stand out among all of them, and they are absolutely ridiculous. They are ridiculous. Okay, with that, I think that wraps up this edition of the Marine Layer podcast. You guys know the drill. If you want to listen to the full podcast, you can do so on Apple, Spotify, Google, and Amazon. We've got the full video podcast on YouTube. Be sure to go check us out on YouTube, rate review, subscribe, help us beat the algorithm. Guys, just you know, go do all those things on all those platforms. It helps us out a bunch. And with that, like I said, go check out all our social media stuff too and send us voicemails. Send us voicemails. We want to hear your thoughts. We'll play them on the show if you do so. For TJ. Matthewson, this is Lyyle Goldstein. As always with thank you guys for tuning in and we'll talk to you next week. Sh