Episode 31: Rob Friedman (Pitching Ninja), The Evolution Of Logan Gilbert's Pitching Arsenal, And Finding Eugenio Suarez's Power Stroke

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number thirty one of the Marine Layer Podcast with TJ. Matthewson and Lyle Goldstein. On today's pod, we're joined by Rob Friedman, you know him as the Pitching Ninja, and if you would guess, we talked about pitchers, Mariners, pitchers, pitchers around baseball. Excellent conversation with him that you'll want to stick around for. We have our three Mariners storylines. We're back with some more voicemails. Didn't do it last week, but we've accumulated some over the last couple of weeks, and we'll hear you guys out on the voicemail line. We'll go down on the farm and pick out a standout Mariners minor leaguer, another Russell Wilson umpire of the Week, and we close out the show with Speak Your Mind. 00:00:43 Speaker 2: Just a reminder, we've partnered up with In the Clutch Clothing Company. In the Clutch Clothing is an official partner of the Marine Layer Podcast. In the Clutch is the ultimate fan site for Seattle Baseball merchandise, including the Celebration Tredent official MLBPA shirts for j Rod, Jared Kalnik, and Los Bombarros. TJ and I've talked about it a bunch. We've got our shirts. I've got mine, TJ's got his comment. They're awesome. We love wearing them. You guys are going to love them too. If you want to get some of your own, use the code Marine Layer Pod at indthclutch dot com for ten percent off and currently every shirt on their website ships within the US for free. 00:01:21 Speaker 1: And a reminder to all of you listening wherever you might be listening to. If you're listening on Apple, if you're listening Spotify, if you're one of the few people listening on Google Podcasts or Amazon, go head over to our YouTube. Subscribe. We have us a comment, turn on the notification bell. No. You can find all of our content across all of those platforms, YouTube, all the podcast streaming platforms, vice versa. If you're watching on YouTube, go find us on Apple, Go find us on Spotify, click subscribe, click follow, leave us a five star review. Let us know what you think of the podcast. We can use all of that we can get. We encourage you to go do that, And if you're not already, go find us on social media. You can find us on Instagram. You can find us on Twitter. You can find us on TikTok at marine Layer Pod. Let's get it rolling and we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast here recording on Sunday, May twenty eighth, the day before Memorial Day. So dog, happy holiday weekend. 00:02:27 Speaker 2: Hey, you remember the holiday? 00:02:29 Speaker 1: I did. I had to ask you right before we recorded it. I was like, well, I know we have Monday off, but as Labor Day, no labor days, and at the end of summer, Memorialeah, Memorial Day. That's right, that's right. Yeah, Okay, gotta remember that. I remember Memorial Day. Okay, the Solstice is soon, and also my dad's birthday is right around then too. You know, we gotta get all of our our beginning summer holidays lined up, so we're not We're not forgetting anything. The only thing I know is that I can sleep in tomorrow instead of go to work. 00:02:57 Speaker 2: Listen. I know, technically the calendar had summer starting somewhere between June twenty first and June twenty third most years, I think it changes from year to year, and then that's technically the start of summer. I don't care. In my internal calendar summer starts Memorial Day weekend, and it ends the day after Labor Day. 00:03:17 Speaker 1: That's the calendar, and you know when summer also starts. Dog when Julio arrives. 00:03:24 Speaker 2: I was gonna say, maybe this isn't a Memorial Day weekend. This is Julio weekend. Because he's back. 00:03:28 Speaker 1: He is back. 00:03:30 Speaker 2: Do we say fully back? 00:03:33 Speaker 1: He's pretty close. There are two important backs of the week. Julio is back and Moto Pizza is back. Stay tuned to our social channels. Will we have the review out by the time this drops? 00:03:46 Speaker 2: Do we think not by the time this drops, but this week for sure? 00:03:50 Speaker 1: Okay, so stay tuned to our social channels. Moto Pizza, if you don't know, it just arrived at the ballpark. Lyle was able to go get some this weekend. It's a little shockingly easier to get at the ballpark than it is at their brick and mortar location. I forget exactly where in the Seattle area where they have a multi month long wait list for pizza, which kind of makes you blow back a little bit and makes me think, well, that's probably where I have to go eat when I come back, whenever I come back for the summer. So yeah, good job, Doug to stalk it out and get some pizza. I'm kind of jealous. I'd be curious to see the difference between what the ballpark has to offer and what the brick and mortar has to offer, because usually there's a bit of a difference. But I gotta say it looked pretty good. 00:04:35 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was pretty good against I don't want to give away too much. Stay tuned for the review. I will say this, how much easier it is to get it at the ballpark compared to the actual shop, I don't know. I mean I got lucky on Sunday when I went to go get it because the line happened to be really short at the time I walked up there, Thank goodness, because I tried on Saturday and that line was an hour long. I mean it file back. You would not believe how long that line stretched back. I basically walked right up, peeked my head kind of to the right to see how long the line went, and I was like, nope, I'm good, and I turned right back around. It was like the scene from The Simpsons of Homer's dad when he walks right in. He puts his hat on the hat rack and he walks right around. He takes the hat off the hat rack, and he walks right out that that was me on Saturday. But hey, we got it Sunday. 00:05:24 Speaker 1: So it's at section three fourteen. How many sections down did the line go? 00:05:30 Speaker 2: Well, it's at the very end, so sections. I don't know, because I think it's right down by the right field foul pole. I don't know if you can measure it by sections. But I mean we're talking like, like, I wish I could paint a better picture of this. But if I just put it this way, if I had stood in that line, I would have missed the first three innings of the game. And I got up there probably forty five minutes before first pitch. Wow. 00:05:53 Speaker 1: Wow, that's incredible. But that's pretty telling. That's pretty telling again, because as long as the line is at the ball park, the line to get it delivered to your home is longer than that by multiply by however many amounts. So good. If you want to try that out, go out to the ballpark, stay tuned to our social channels. We'll have the review. I'm kind of jealous, but again, I'll have to come buy it and eat it when I get back up. I'm a connoisseur of pizza, so like I always enjoy my trips to New York because that's where all the real pizza is. But Moto is a nice, a nice alternative that we can that we can have here in the Pacific Northwest, which you might not be known for its pizza one hundred percent, but I'd say it's a that's a pretty good start. 00:06:35 Speaker 2: If you like deep dish, it's a good start because you know, it's not the New York style pizza. 00:06:39 Speaker 1: It's not it's not deep dish what not. It's Detroit style pizza. Difference. Okay, there's a difference. Okay, Chicago and Detroit pizza are different. 00:06:51 Speaker 2: Okay, so Detroit style pizza Midwest pizza. I'll put it like. 00:06:54 Speaker 1: That, right, maybe the best food to come out of the Midwest. 00:06:59 Speaker 2: I mean, what else are we talking about here? 00:07:02 Speaker 1: Well, I know you like yourself some chili, some Cincinnati Skyline Chili. 00:07:06 Speaker 2: Right, Skyline Chili is the worst restaurant ever invented, and that probably just ended our chances of ever getting a sponsor from them, which I don't think we're getting a sponsor from them anyway, So I don't have a problem saying it that that place should be condemned like it's number one. 00:07:22 Speaker 1: We took a trip there. It was such a memorable experience. 00:07:27 Speaker 2: I mean I sat there and watched you eat about maybe a thirty your meal, and even you went, yeah, this is not good. 00:07:34 Speaker 1: I think I still finished it because I so. Lyle and I took a little road trip from from Seattle to during college, from Seattle to Massachusetts to the Cape League, and we made it. We drove through Ohio, of course, right on the way, and I'm like, well, dog, I don't know when I'm going to be in Ohio next, so we're going to Skyline Chili. He's like, oh god, fuck, Okay. So we went about yeah, I don't know, it was probably thirty minutes out of the way way to go to the nearest Skyline Chili. And let's just say, like, probably could use that thirty minutes back because. 00:08:08 Speaker 3: I don't know. 00:08:09 Speaker 1: And that's what the Midwest is known for. Uh man, you know, the standards not set too high. But in terms of I guess Midwest pizza, you're right, and that the Moto pizza makes up for whatever Skyline Chili is worth. 00:08:21 Speaker 2: Let me just fill in one quick thing. TJ and I didn't just decide on a whim to take a cross country drive across legit the entire country. We were broadcast interns for the second summer in a row in the Cape Cod League that year. TJ wanted to get his car out there so we'd have a car to drive that summer. So he decided, Okay, I'm gonna drive it instead of ship it. So the two of us decided to drive out there over the span of a little less than a week to get out there for the summer. And we made a bunch of stops along the way. That was one of them. And like you said, if I could erase that from my memory, I probably would. 00:08:52 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. It's hard to measure which was more memorable going to Skyline Chili or Mount Rushmore. I mean, two things that I probably won't ever again. 00:09:01 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm right there with you. I mean, when the next time I'm gonna be in the middle of South Dakota is I don't know, But when the next time I'm gonna try skyline Chilly is probably never? 00:09:15 Speaker 1: Probably never. That's a that's a good assumption. But anyways, in terms of good Midwest food Moto Pizza I'm sure is one of them. No Midwest food in our storylines, but we'll get to those anyway. Let's get to our three Mariners' storylines. 00:09:29 Speaker 4: Up. 00:09:30 Speaker 1: First lyle, it has been very curious to see how Logan Gilbert this season. It's it's all part of his evolution, but it's been really impressive to watch him, especially hone his breaking pitches and sort of toy with his repertoire week to week, and it has brought him to what I guess more up to his prospect status is a top thirty prospect coming up in the Mariners system and really and truly honing his repertoire and you know, making himself a complete pitcher, which I think, especially over the course of this month of May, he has done exactly. 00:10:06 Speaker 2: There's so many different angles we can touch on right now with Logan Gilbert. Let's start with what you just mentioned, the off speed, the breaking pitches, because his secondary stuff has all of a sudden become lethal. I mean, you want to talk about this splitter, Let's just start there. So Logan Gilbert ditches his change up right. For two years he had to change up the Mariners talked about, they actually liked it as a pitch. He ultimately decided after a pair of seasons, I'm gonna go with something new, So he unveils this splitter this year, and it has been unbelievable. Dude, that splitter has been deadly. Hitters are hitting one fourteen against it. They're slugging one thirty six against it. Nobody's hitting that pitch, and it's brand new. I mean, this might, all of a sudden be arguably the second best pitch in his arsenal. 00:10:55 Speaker 1: I believe he's gonna start between the time we're recording this here on Sunday night and by the time this episode drops on Wednesday, so these numbers might update after his next start. However, right, all these numbers across the board for his splitter show what we harped on at the beginning of the season is that he needed a true outpitch. The problem with him getting hit hard is because he did not have a true pitch to get a swing and miss. The splitter is one of them. The slider, while it doesn't and crue as much swing and miss has also been very, very impressive this year and actually has a better run value than his than his splitter does, and he's comfortable throwing those pitches a lot. We've seen him. We've seen him throw his slider, you know, over thirty percent of the time this past month in a start. We've also seen him throw his splitter nearly thirty percent of the time in a start. And we've also seen him just sort of throw that out the window and say, you know, I'm only going to throw my fastball because that's been my best pitch these last two years. And it's all worked across the board. We're showing that, you know, a revamped slider and a new splitter to go alongside that fastball is Logan's formula for success. 00:12:05 Speaker 2: Here's how Logan sliders evolved over the years. In twenty twenty one, it had a run value of nine. In other words, it got lit up. Twenty twenty two, it had a run value of zero, so it was fine, wasn't great, wasn't terrible. Twenty twenty three, here it sits negative six run value. I mean, look at the difference in just a couple of seasons how much that pitch has evolved. Now, like you said, it's one of his best pitches. 00:12:31 Speaker 1: Again, and he's comfortable throwing it. And the thing I like about that were caught up in this sweeper revolution. His slider's not a sweepers. It's not a Matt Brash slider. It is a true I think it's a gyro. It's a gyro slider. So it'll spin like this like a like a football and just go go straight down when when it's spinning, which is it's got that short, tight bite on it, and he can throw it harder. I think he throws it about eighty nine miles an hour. And he's again the biggest thing, he's comfortable throwing it, which is important because he was not comfortable throwing his change up. But now he has two secondaries he's really comfortable throwing. I mean, I remember his first season back in twenty one, he was not comfortable throwing any of his off speed pitches. I mean his curveball, which got him through the minors. He was essentially just lobbing in there. It was just hoping to get a swing and a miss or just steal a strike essentially, and I had to rely on his fastball for all the strikeouts. Now he doesn't have to do that. 00:13:33 Speaker 2: It's pretty incredible. Isn't that. I mean, we can just go through a couple of his numbers here. So he's got a three to sixty ERA right now. He should be pitching much better than that, according to all of the RA predictors, because his fifth is two seventy nine, his XCRA is to eighty nine. So those two RA predictors say he should be even better than he already is. So he's probably gonna continue to build and improve on what he's already done so far. 00:13:59 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm going to add a couple I want to go back to those numbers, but let me just I want to talk just a little bit more about how he's mixed things up first, and then I'm going to give you some context of how good he has been, because I really think he's flying under the raidar nationally. 00:14:14 Speaker 2: He is. 00:14:15 Speaker 1: So I highlighted all of his starts in May, so May eighth versus Texas. I think most of his starts in May. I did his last four starts as of now, recording here on Sunday, May twenty eighth versus the Rangers, where he had six perfect innings. On May eighth, Situ went six and two thirds. He struck out ten, walked one two earned runs. He threw his fastball fifty six percent of the time, his slider twenty four percent. He did throw his curveball about seventeen percent of the time, his splitter was only two point two percent of the time. But lyle ten strikeouts and he got most of them on his fastball in that start. 00:14:53 Speaker 2: Here's a point off of that. Logan not only as much more comfortable with his secondary pitches now, like we can I need to talk about here, the results back it up. Look at how much people are chasing at his pitches now this year. The thing about Logan is not only did he not seem comfortable throwing a secondary pitch consistently over the first year, for sure, maybe a little bit from time to time over the second year, but it's the results he's now getting. It's not just the comfortability. I mean, it's all out on paper. He was in the twelfth percentile in chase rate last year. People were not chasing his stuff. Well, fast forward a year later, ninety second percentile. Now everybody chases his stuff. 00:15:35 Speaker 1: That's really good. And you know why that is again because he is able to rely on multiple pitches and guys have to guess a little bit more. He's not as predictable. I mean, let's just look at his next start. He drops his fast ball from fifty six percent on May eighth to on May fourteenth against the Tigers, thirty eight percent fastball, and he threw a slider thirty one percent of the time. He jumped his slider up to almost as much as his fastball is. He bumped his curve ball up two percentage points to nineteen percent, and he threw splitter ten percent more at twelve percent of the time. And that start against the Tigers, he went five and two thirds, only struck out four and walked one. Now we're going to get into the fun start, the one that was kind of When this happened against the Braves, people were like, whoa. I mean, Logan essentially just turned into a junk baller. He on May twentieth against the Braves six innings, nine strikeouts, one walk, two earned runs, twenty seven and a half percent fastball percentage in that start nineteen and a half percent slider twenty four twenty four point one percent curveball, twenty eight point seven percent splitter. He threw his splitter more than any pitch against the Braves, something he has not done. And all of a sudden, he mixes all four of his pitches to about equal and so you really have no idea what's coming. And then he goes to his next start, the last one we had against the A's before recording this back up to forty six point forty six percent fastball, twenty two percent slider, twenty two percent splitter, and then his curveball down to nine percent. I mean, he's just he's mixing things up. He's like a bartender back there, just cooking up drinks, and it's working because guys don't know what to expect. 00:17:23 Speaker 2: It's so much different. I mean, remember that start he had against the Yankees during his rookie year. Was that day game at home, I think it was the summertime, and he went seven shutout, but he was throwing all fastballs in that start. So to your bartender point, back then, he was more like us at Vine on Wednesdays, which is a which is a U. 00:17:42 Speaker 1: I know we know what we're getting every time exactly. 00:17:44 Speaker 2: It's like it's so it's an old bar and tempee. They had these dollar drink nights on Wednesdays, everybody used to go and we would order like fifty long islands for the whole table or whatever that was Logan Back then, it was just one drink all the time. Now, all of a sudden, like you said, he's mixed, send it up on people. Now, people don't know what they're gonna get from Logan, and it's for the better. 00:18:04 Speaker 1: Yeah, Logan's getting a mango margarita. That's what he's getting. He's got a good taste too. So let's get some let's get some context now into just what this has allowed him to do and how good he has been. 00:18:16 Speaker 4: So he is. 00:18:17 Speaker 1: Currently striking out twenty nine point six percent of batters he has faced, and he has walked four point three percent. Lyyle Goldstein, how many pitchers in baseball have a higher strikeout percentage than that in a lower walk percentage. 00:18:33 Speaker 2: Why don't you enlighten me? 00:18:35 Speaker 1: None, not a single one. It's pretty incredible, isn't it. Let me give you the two guys who are closest in that perspective. Again, so nobody has a higher strikeout rate and a lower walk rate. The guy two guys that are closest that I thought were most similar Joe Ryan is number one, and Joe Ryan is probably top of the Twins, really revamped to his repertoire of the offseason, and he's I think top five in the cy Young in the American League this season. I think we could pretty comfortably say he's been really good for Minnesota. He's at twenty twenty eight point nine percent strikeout rate, four point one percent walk rate. Another guy who's pretty close is Zach Gallon. He leads all pitchers in f War. He's at twenty eight point three percent strike out rate, five point three percent walk rate. That's pretty good company. 00:19:30 Speaker 2: You know what might be the craziest part about all of this. So we've just laid out all of these things that have made Logan so great this year, and it's all justifiable. But if you rank these Mariners arms in the rotation, Logan's what third fourth? Do you dare say if Bryce Miller's ahead of them? 00:19:47 Speaker 5: Yeah? 00:19:48 Speaker 1: Probably? And then but I texted you today as I'm doing this research, I'm like, Logan's four starts from being an All Star. He keeps this up for four starts, how do you keep him out of the All Star Game? Because his era is gonna be under three. He's gonna have a probably over a thirty percent strikeout rate while ranking in the top ten and walk rate and baseball and all his predictors across the border great and you look at his pitches and it's like, what isn't an All star about this? 00:20:12 Speaker 2: All four of those guys are gonna have serious cases if this keeps up. Now, how many of them get in? Maybe it's two if they're lucky, three of them. All four have serious cases right now. And we haven't even mentioned Logan Gilbert is second in all of baseball and web second. 00:20:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, second. I couldn't believe that. I'm like, oh he is second, No, he's actually second. You want another? I got another nugget here. Strikeout percentage might in this walk percentage. It's a combination of how many guys do you strike out versus how many guys do you walk? I mean, the higher the better. The larger this number is the better because if you're not walking guys and strike out a lot of guys, you're gonna be pretty successful. So strikeout percentage minus walk percentage. He's at twenty five point three. He is behind Spencer Strider and Kevin Gosman. 00:21:01 Speaker 2: Pretty good if you want this conversation bow tied up is in a nutshell Logan Gilbert is a totally new pitcher this year. He's been really good and he is still being underrated throughout the game of baseball, but here in Seattle people are loving it as they should because he has been awesome. Okay, second storyline here, A little bit of an interesting point of timing for this one, because we're sitting here recording on Sunday night. Auennio Suarez just hit a moonshot of a walk off home run to win it for the Mariners and take the series against the Pirates. On the season as a whole, though, is more what we're bringing up as a talking point here, because his power hasn't really been there. Now, is this cause for concern or is there reason to believe this can turn around? 00:21:50 Speaker 1: Well the start, I mean I had in my notes that he was not hitting for power against breaking balls, and then he got a cement mixer eighty five down the dick today and hit it about a country mile. So you know, when you make mistakes like that, Lyle. 00:22:03 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I mean, look, he did what he had to with that pitch, right it hung right over the middle of the plate and he absolutely destroyed it. We know he has power, and you know what, I think, based off what we've talked about and what our notes say here in front of us, from doing prep for this podcast and also just watching games throughout the year, I think he is bound for a much better second half. 00:22:28 Speaker 1: I don't think he's gonna quite match his power production from last year, barring a big jump in barrel rate. I think that's the biggest difference here between this year and last year. Barrels are really the op the ideal batted ball profile. It's a combination of not only hitting the ball hard, but hitting it at the right launch angle as well. To clarify what exactly a barrel is. And his barrel percentage is about four percent lower, which is a pretty significant difference. He was pretty elite in twenty twenty two in Barrel Radio's ninety fourth percentele opposed to this year he's down to the seventy first percentile. But otherwise across the board, I mean, his batted ball profile is largely the same right, so you would expect it's gonna turn around. Here's a number to throw it at you let's just focus on fastballs. I mentioned like, if you go look at a savant page, he's not hit breaking stuff well this year. He's not slugged against breaking stuff well this year, and he's not expected based on what he's produced and the kind of batted balls he's produced against breaking balls that he's miss really missing out on some power there, He's not. But one thing that did stand out to me was his performance against fastballs against four seemers this season. He's hitting two oh nine and thrug thrugging, slugging three sixty two. His expected stats against four seemers this year, He's supposed to be hitting two ninety two based on his batted ball data. That's his expected batting average, and his expected slugging percentage is seven twenty, which would be it is. It would be the highest number, highest expected slugging he's had on any pitch in his career that he's seen this many times so far. 00:24:14 Speaker 2: That is an insane difference. We're talking nearly four hundred points between his actual slugging percentage and his expected slugging. So that's what I'm talking about when we're sitting here and saying I think he is bound for a much better second half. Okay, is he not going to hit thirty one home runs again, Well, his WRC plus and the year a little bit lower than it did last year. It might. There's no reason a U Hennio Suarez can't be a really productive bat again down the stretch and still finish the year with a WRC plus let's call it in the one eighteen range, even if it's not up close to one thirty the way it was last year. If he starts to kind of get back to the expected line of where he should be in the second half of the season, because all of his expected stats outside of the swing and miss, which we know is just a part his game, say that that is supposed to happen. I mean, he's in the sixty eighth percentile in x slug which again last year he slugged a little bit better than that. He's still in the seventy first percentile and barrel rate like he's not, he's expected to be hitting much better. Even if he's not going to hit as well as last year, these numbers still say he should progress in the second half. Progress. 00:25:24 Speaker 1: That's pretty much the difference between two thousand and three Barry Bonds and Adam Fraser like that put for some reference. 00:25:33 Speaker 2: Oh, the expected slug in the actual size. 00:25:35 Speaker 1: You notice that I was typing away there. I was actually that like kind of popped into my head. I was like, yeah, I wonder how close that is. No, it's pretty close. It's essentially he's expected to be slugging like two thousand and three Barry Bonds, but he's actually slugging like Adam Fraser. So yeah, that's a pretty big gap. 00:25:52 Speaker 2: So maybe he can find some medium again. He can still be a really productive bat. We know he has power. He actually does draw walks. His whole thing with his strikeouts is not chasing bad pitches. It's just when he swings, he whiffs a lot. That's what it more is with Geno, and he's gonna strike out. But there's no reason that power can't come back, and everything the numbers are telling us and his profile is telling us, is that it will here in the coming weeks. 00:26:18 Speaker 1: Let's give some context on his performance on flyballs this year. Flyballs. Your your performance on flyballs is pretty indicative of your power, especially home run power, and it was pretty apparent last year on fly balls. Last year he hit two eighty seventy slugged ninety three with a two forty WRC plus. All these numbers come in twenty twenty two with a harder hit rate of forty two percent and an eighteen point six percent home run to fly ball ratio. This season, he is hitting one seventy on fly balls with only a five thirty two slugging percentage, a seventy four WRC plus, with a forty four percent hard hit rate, and a ten per home run to flyball rate. Again, home run to flyball rate, I believe the league average is around what Gino did last year. I think it's around eighteen ish percent, so I think one out of every five fly balls you hit goes out of the park, and he's well below that number this year while still on fly balls, hitting them hard about forty four percent of the time, so you'd imagine some of those are gonna start going over the fence or banging off the wall. 00:27:27 Speaker 2: The key for Gino in the second half here is improve against breaking balls and then just simply continue what he's done against fastballs, and the numbers should start to improve again because he's I mean, he's clearly not being challenged. Maybe challengesn't the right word against fastballs. He's not being overmatched against fastballs. It's just the luck hasn't swung his way yet, and we think it should. 00:27:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then it'll be something to keep track of. But at very least for Gino, he has turned from an average defender to be quite literally the best defensive third basement in baseball. He is one hundredth percent tilent outs above average. That's really good. 00:28:06 Speaker 2: Maybe we have to talk about that here for just thirty seconds. I know this was supposed to be about his offense. This is ridiculous. What's happened to his defense? I mean, last year he was a league average defender, which everybody was thrilled about. They're like, great for how tough his defense was in Cincinnati. This is all we could ask for. He is the best defensive third basement in baseball. Not Matt Chapman, not Nolan Aronado, two guys who are known to be defensive savans. No, it's au henni Os Suarez, a guy who Cincinnati tried to put it shortstop in his last year, which was just an absolute project of a disaster in itself. And now here we are just about a couple of handfuls of month months later, and he's the best defensive third basement in baseball. That's a fact. 00:28:50 Speaker 1: We're feeling pretty confident now whenever the ball goes stet left side of the infield. With JP's defensive resurgence paired with Aohennio being the best defensive third baseman in baseball so far, yeah, you'll you'll take that. So Perry Hill, buy you a drink? 00:29:07 Speaker 2: Do it? 00:29:07 Speaker 1: You did it again? 00:29:09 Speaker 2: Hot tip to him. 00:29:11 Speaker 1: Let's get to our final storyline of this week. While kind of generally headlining it, let's predict some roster chure. And we kind of talked about it generally last week, but there are a couple impending guys who are going to come back. Dylan Moore is expected back. He might be back by the time this episode drops. I think actually it's more likely than not, by the time this episode comes out on Wednesday, he will be back on the active roster. He's currently intocoma rehabbing right now. So let's do some predictions. We'll be able to actually once we listen to this, figure out if we're a right or not of what's actually gonna happen with this roster when two guys come back Dylan Moore's one, Andre's Munos is the other. Munnos expected to return sometime sometime on the next road trip from June first to June eleven. First up, While what do we think is going to happen when and Dylan Moore eventually returns to the Mariner's roster. 00:30:04 Speaker 2: I feel like this segment has a chance to be short because I feel like we may just be in full agreement on both of these moves. I feel like the move has to be Sam Haggerty, who's out of options, and just as a guy who's been a fan favorite, it might be tough for some fans to see because he played such a vital role last year, between his ability to steal bases, how well he hit from the right side, he could move around a lot. But for somebody who's only put up a WRC plus of forty four, he's barely playing these days. And he's a utility man, which is what Dylan Moore's role is. It feels like he's the odd man out here. 00:30:39 Speaker 1: I think he has two options left. 00:30:42 Speaker 2: Does he really? 00:30:43 Speaker 1: I'm gonna look, I'm almost certain he has options. 00:30:47 Speaker 2: I thought he didn't so okay, I mean, and in that case he just go down to Tacoma. 00:30:51 Speaker 1: Which makes it an easier decision. Correct, I could, So that's what I put to hold on. Let me, I'm gonna double check here for a second, because they have this on Fangrafts of how many options he has, but I'm pretty sure as too. Yeah, he has two options left. 00:31:06 Speaker 2: Huh. 00:31:07 Speaker 1: So I think so my prediction, alongside yours, I think he's gonna be the one that ends up to get option because everything that Jerry's said, I know, they put out everything you know, pr ish and not gonna demean anyone. I don't think they're quite gonna cut ties with Colton Wong yet. Unfortunately, even though you know we're past the fifty game mark and usually you know you have what you have, at this point, you pretty much know what you have, and Colton Wong has not worked out. But with options available on Sam Haggerty, I think that's gonna be the option. I think it's gonna be demo Kavierro and Wong, you know, split amongst the infield. You know, Cavileerro and Dylan Moore can fill in on other spots in the infield and Colton Wong can spend some more time at second base as well. And again, like you said, Sam just hasn't really played that much. The problem is, I put another tap here. What I think should happen is, you know, you probably cut ties to cult Loong at this point. I'm not a GM, but I don't see how keeping wa keeping Wong over Haggarty does much. Even if Sam's not really hitting at the plate, He's your best base runner late in games, probably besides Jose Kabaiero, but Kaby's starting. So if you have a guy off the bench, Sam, Sam's like your guy on the base paths to go out there and run, which I think is pretty important essentially as it gets later later in the season, you don't exactly have a ton of speed on your roster outside of you know, Julio, Jared and Kabby Erro. So having a guy like Sam Haggerty makes it makes it pretty good. And you know, Colt Wang, he's just he's been just fucking awful. Like it is past fifty games, right, we keep hearing that fifty games is the point where you're like, Okay, we'll give these guys the first fifty games and decide what to do after that. So you have the first fifty games to evaluate and the next fifty after that to reshape your roster into what you think to fix those problems or to make the roster better. Well, there's not much about Colt Wong's scheme right now that looks like it's turning around. His at bats aren't great. He's not hitting pitches in the zone. Again, he's been we highlighted last week. He's been awful on defense. His base running is stunk. His arm is among the worst in the league, all right, right, and he's he's probably not a guy that would like to sit on the bench, which he's been doing more because he's just stunk. 00:33:30 Speaker 3: So I don't know. 00:33:31 Speaker 1: It's how you, however, you balance those two things. 00:33:35 Speaker 2: Haggarty can play the outfield too, so again he's obviously much more versatile than Wong, where Wan can only play one position. But I think for the most part of the segment, we're talking our predictions based off what we think will actually happen, and it feels unlikely they cut ties with Wong, like you said, so it'll probably be Haggarty, especially that he has options. He'll go down to Tacoma, Dylan Morre'll come back, and I'm sure if there's a guy needed from Tacoma to get up to the big leagues, Haggardy will be just about the first call. Now on the other side of things here, when Andres Munoz gets back, which should happen a little bit after Dylan Moore, but like you said a couple of minutes ago, it's probably not too far away. Somebody's got to get out of that bullpen. Now, who do we think that's going to be? 00:34:17 Speaker 3: One? 00:34:18 Speaker 6: Ten? 00:34:19 Speaker 2: Okay, so unanimous is a frequent division here. 00:34:21 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not a very difficult one. 00:34:24 Speaker 2: Look, he's looked good in a lot of his outings. The thing with ten here is, obviously, as options, he's incredibly young, and there's just not much room in this bullpen. I mean, if the Mariners had even a league average bullpen, one ten would probably stay because again he's actually flashed some good stuff so far, and more of his outings than not have been good. But it's just more of there is not a lot of room, and obviously Munno's who is the best reliever of the group and one of the best in baseball, is getting a spot back on the roster. They don't seem to want to let Flexing go because I think they're worried about another injury and just having that security net if somebody were to go down. So that kind of leaves ten. 00:35:08 Speaker 1: My thought process is about so yeah, I thought it tends the easiest first of all, Like you just watch him like sorry, Like he is like the least impressed of that crew. That's something against him. But the rest of the group is is pretty fucking good. So that makes it a little bit easier of a decision to send him down. It's got all the options anyways, the way I think about it with Chris Flexen, where they're eventually gonna have to come to this decision. Chris Flexen when he started this year has not looked good in any sense it is. It has not even really been all that competitive when he started, outside of a start at the beginning of the year, I think otherwise it's been pretty shitty for Chris Flexen. So it has to come to a point like when pen Murphy gets healthy, or Matt Festus shows that he's ready to come up, or you're finally ready to pull the trigger and bring up Perlander burroa you gotta think about it with Chris Flexen? Is it worth keeping a guy who I guess he theoretically could slide into a bullpen spot or a rotation spot if you need to and start games. Here's the questions you ask. Are you giving yourself a chance to win those games with him pitching? You know he pitches now three innings a week maybe, so he's not stretched out when he has started this season, he hasn't necessarily given you great opportunities to win. His stuff hasn't really flashed. And also, other teams around baseball, could you starting pitching? I'm sure they're calling around and asking because it would make their issue a lot and make their situation a lot easier if someone wants to trade for Chris Flexen. But that's not the case right now, not that we know of. So where do we cross that line. 00:36:45 Speaker 2: The more I've thought about this, the more I think they want to keep him around until they are at the point where where they feel comfortable that they could bring up either Emerson Hancock or Brian wu if there was going to be another injury right now here in late May, if somebody were to go down, Heaven forbid, I don't think that they're ready to bring up Hancocker Wu yet Brian Wu, by the way, as good as he's been, does not have a lot of minor league innings under his belt, and he's still got some secondary stuff to work on. And Emerson Hancock has been a really good outside of a couple starts, but again, I think they want to build him up a little bit more now. If this is in mid July, in August, if they decided to cut ties with Flexen, maybe at that point they decide, Okay, if somebody were to, heaven forbid, get injured, we would feel more comfortable bringing somebody like Hancock up. That would be my guess. 00:37:37 Speaker 1: I think Dollar it's a piece of that too. And I believe Dollard is still out. 00:37:41 Speaker 2: He is, but when he's healthy, You're right. 00:37:43 Speaker 1: If this if I think if Taylor Dollard was healthy, the I don't know if Chris flex will be on the roster right now. I don't think so, because you because they would they would think that Taylor Dollard could come in and do what Chris Flexen does out of Triple A instead of just hanging out and taken spot in your bullpen. 00:38:02 Speaker 2: That's that's not the craziest take I could. I mean, I think that's fair. I think if Dollar was healthy, I mean, he had such a good year last year that he could just be the long reliever and just your safety neck guy if you were to need a starter at some point. So yeah, I could see that. We'll see when Dollar gets back too. 00:38:19 Speaker 1: We've just said, like, especially if they are if the Mariners are gonna go all out to try and win games this year, they just can't keep Chris flexing in the bullpen. They can't do it. I mean, they're they are. They are a man short in that bullpen. 00:38:33 Speaker 2: And eventually it's gonna get to the point where, look, Penn Murphy's gonna get a spot back on the roster. Matt Festa, like you said, his ra and Tacoma, oh my god, it's oh forty seven, and I know we're talking about triple A stats, but he's looked unbelievable since going down there. And then again, we know pre Lander Bureau is coming. We don't know the day, but we know it's not that far out, so they're gonna have some decisions to make, and that is something we're gonna want to watch as the weeks go on. But you know what, it's a good problem to have for a team that's had a bullpen. This good for the third consecutive year. 00:39:04 Speaker 1: I agree. 00:39:06 Speaker 2: We ready to get to some voicemails here, let's do it. 00:39:09 Speaker 1: I missed a voicemails last week. You know, our hope is that eventually we could do these, you know, every week. I know you said last week, every like every other week. But if we get enough people calling us and giving us some interesting content, I mean, we love to get to highlight some some good voicemails every week. But it's been two weeks now since we've done voicemails. A reminder for this voicemail segment. If you'd like to contribute and potentially have your name and your voice featured on this podcast, give us a call, leave us a voicemail. Two zero six eight eight zero zero nine zero seven. Again it's two zero six eight eight zero zero nine zero seven. Give the layer line a call, leave us a voicemail, and hey, bring the heat, bring the heat, like, throw it at us. We want the good content. 00:40:01 Speaker 2: So yeah, let's say that if you're gonna get fired up in a in a voicemail, we'll probably play it. Let's put it like that. 00:40:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we do have one that's pretty fiery. But we'll say that one's gonna be the last one, so we'll we'll end off with the bank. So let's get to let's get to our first one. 00:40:20 Speaker 6: Yeah, how's it going. This is Blake and I'm calling from beautiful Los Angeles, California. I have two questions for the great hosts of the Marine Layer podcast. My first question is, you're the general manager of the Seattle Mariners. What is your pitch to show hey Otani this offseason? And how much are you willing to give him via the contract and how many years do you want to give him? And my second question is would you rather have the Mariners win a World Series, not reach a World Series the rest of your life, or over the next twenty five years, reach the World Series ten times but never win it? 00:41:02 Speaker 4: Thanks guys, k My. 00:41:04 Speaker 1: Pitch starts with a house knicks to Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos, Uh, six hundred million dollars and hey, look how good a roster is? 00:41:13 Speaker 2: Boom? Okay, yours was a little quicker than mine, and I'm glad you went first on this because, as you know this is a topic I like to dive in on, and I thought this out. So first off, on the money factor. You know, I've sat up here on this podcast and we've differed on this opinion before. Where you're all about spending money on any of the Marquie free agents that are out there, I'm a little more careful about it. I don't love the idea of long term contracts. Shoe Hey Otani, I do not care if the Mariners offer that guy a billion dollars. I'd say it's market value and worth it, because not only is he the best player in the game, he may go down if this keeps up as the best player of all time, and he's probably trending that way. Here's my pitch if I'm the Mariners to show Heyo Tani. I've got three points on here, because I'm not even gonna talk about the money, the tone down pressure of playing in a non major market, or the history of Japanese players, because Shohey knows all that, and obviously he's thinking about places like the Dodgers right now. They're probably at this very moment the front runner if it's gonna be the Mariners, though, here's my three pitches. Number One, the team, its core and its outlook is a whole lot different than when he nearly signed here in twenty eighteen. It's way better now and they're gonna be good for a long time. Number Two, it kind of ties into that that dude that wears number forty four in plays center field, Well, he's gonna be here for the next sixteen to seventeen years. And Otani does not have to carry a team. He's got a superstar next to him, hitting next to him in the lineup, playing an elite defense behind him in center field for the entirety of whatever his contract will be. And Third, here's maybe the thing I'm harping on him most about and really pitching to him, I'd say, listen, show, hey, you want to go to an already historic franchise like the Dodgers the Yankees, win a couple of titles, get your money. Good for you those franchise. Those franchises already have a history of great players. You'll be another. But you're just gonna be another great player in the organization if you want. But if you come to Seattle and you win here with this team in front of this fan base, you will be a legend in this city for the rest of eternity. Your numbers getting retired, you're probably getting a statue outside the ballpark. You might get a key to the damn city. It would mean that much to this city if you came here and anchored this team to a title. I genuinely believe that he will be great with the Dodgers and long appreciated. It will not be the same if he's in Seattle. 00:43:41 Speaker 1: What a pitch, mister Goldstein. 00:43:42 Speaker 6: Whooa, come on? 00:43:44 Speaker 2: I thought I wanted to think that one out, and I thought that was good. 00:43:47 Speaker 1: That was great. Yeah, that was good. Maybe called the ballpark named after him? I think delmi nice. 00:43:52 Speaker 2: Oh Tani Park, Sure, I like that. 00:43:54 Speaker 1: It has a nice ring to it that they'll throw that in as part of it naming rights to the stadium. Let's get to our second voicemail. 00:44:02 Speaker 2: Oh before you play that. Oh okay, go ahead, before you play that, because he had a second question there. This should take ten seconds. If the Mariners win a World Series and never get there again, That's what I'm taking because they actually win it. 00:44:16 Speaker 1: Yeah, not even close, right, not even close. That's the easiest decision of all time. Like Blake, could you imagine the anguish of losing ten World series sounds pretty bad? 00:44:27 Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't sound fun. 00:44:29 Speaker 1: No, it doesn't. All right, now, let's get to our jumping in a little bit. But let's get to our next voicemail. 00:44:34 Speaker 4: Hey, guys, it's your local neighborhood construction worker out here, currently sitting right in the middle of four or five at exactly three to eight am. Do you want to call in? Say hi, longtime listener, short term idiot, you know how it is, So I just want to talk about before twins, Harry and Mike looking pretty solid. How long do you think Harry'll be in single A up there and ever? And do you think Mike has a future coming up into the Mariners organization as a DH hitter. It really seems like they could be using one right now. Thanks for being awesome. Thuck you guys later. 00:45:14 Speaker 1: To call at three oh eight a m. I mean, I respect it. I respect it because I don't think I would think to call a voicemail inbox at three oh eight in the morning. But you can call whenever you want. The voicemail inbox is always open. Harry Ford is going to be in single a until or sorry, hi ah, until the All Star break where he's going to go up to Double Way. He had another home run today, so he's gonna you know, he's you know, he's really fucking good. Mike Ford. I'd love to see him up at big league level. We kind of know what he is as a big league hitter at this point. Would he be would he improve the Mariners current DH roll? Perhaps because Mariners dhs have still been pretty crummy this year, But I don't see him on this roster. I know he has an opt out in his contract that he that he might exercise, so I've heard on the grapevine. 00:46:01 Speaker 2: I think you summarized that pretty well. So obviously he's kidding in this email. Obviously Harry Ford and Mike Ford are not twins or not brothers, But yeah, I kind of thought the same thing about Harry is, whether it's two weeks or two months in Double A, he will be in Arkansas at some point this year. At some point he's gonna be there. Mike Ford. Look, he's been great in Triple A, but like you said, he's got an opt out in his contract coming he may look for a place that gives him a better shot to the majors. Also, like we talked about on one of our recent shows, they might look to Jake Shiner before him. So yeah, I'm not sure what his path to the Mariners is. 00:46:37 Speaker 1: It would take like a catastrophic Typhrance injury, you would think to get his to get his to get his bat on the roster. But you know, if he finds a major league opportunity elsewhere, like, go Mike Ford, go go get that paycheck. Let's get to our next voicemail. 00:46:54 Speaker 7: Hey, this is Max from calling in from Coloonna, British Columbia, about six hours in northeast of Seattle, and I just want to take the opportunity to complain about how the Blue Jays have monopolized the Canadian baseball television market. You can't watch Mariners games from anywhere in Canada on TV, even Vancouver, which is what like three hours from Seattle, and it drives me absolutely insane. The other thing, too, is even when I try to watch the Mariners on MLB TV, I get Blue Jays ads. They are constantly shoving it down my throat, constantly trying to appeal to like the sort of oh, we're the only Canadian team nationalism. Even though they're owners. Rogers charged the highest rates in the world for telecommunications. So yeah, I'm very angry. 00:47:45 Speaker 1: So I see that. Not like, not only are the Blue Jays annoying when they play in Seattle once a year, they're also annoying for people who are not fans of the Blue Jays in Canada. 00:47:57 Speaker 2: That was going to be my first talking point here is you want to fight the system. Do everybody in Seattle a favor. Stop letting all those Blue Jays fans into t Mobile Park. It drives people nuts every year that they just flock into that stadium and honestly make it feel like a home game. Yeah, to his point, Vancouver should be a Seattle based market because it's way closer to Seattle than it is to Toronto. I get the whole Canada thing. I wish I could provide some help on this subject, like in the sense of being able to do something about it. But all I can really do is sympathize with you, because, yeah, Vancouver should be a Mariner's market. 00:48:34 Speaker 1: It's it's like the city of Seattle forced to be a Detroit Tigers fan, Like that's the equivalent in terms of where the cities are. That's pretty much what it is. So yeah, it's crazy, but it you know, that's what happens internationally. But hey, our first international caller. Hopefully we don't get charged international rates on that, so I guess we'll find out otherwise. Max will send you the bill. I'm kidding, kidding, Okay, thanks to the call. 00:48:58 Speaker 2: Max. 00:48:58 Speaker 1: Let's get to our five A voicemail. 00:49:00 Speaker 2: It's a little long, le t. 00:49:03 Speaker 5: This is the Humble at Younger gold Stein calling in just after listening to last episode. Wanted to provide some thoughts on the requirement for stadium roofs at all and will be stadiums as while so in fact, that all stadiums should have roots and kesa. You seem to be in support of that, that the owners should just pay for it, and you know where's the money coming from. But I have to ask you guys this, it's the owners should just pay for it. Why don't they already pay for the stadiums now? They they don't. They don't pay for the stadiums now. And that's not just going to all of a sudden change. And if you wanted that to change, I think that would have to come in a CBA, and you know, the last thing we want is like when the CBA expires, is another long strike. Because people are so hung up about who's paying for the stadium. The precedent is set that taxpayers almost always have to pay for it pretty deepent sized chunk of the stadium, and adding a retractable roof requirement would have like one hundred million dollars plus on top of whatever proposal they're adding. Another point that Lyle I think is heard the only stadium I think there's two stadiums I think that have roofs specifically for rainouts, and it's Seattle and Toronto. I think all the other roofs are because of the heat. Texas Chase Field for the Diamondbacks in Miami they have a roof, and Vegas is going to have a roof at least partially, I think, and that's all because of the heat. There's only two stadiums that have it for rain because there's only five rainouts a year, is gonna make any fiscal sense. You can just reschedule the games. He's annoying for fans, but it's like five games a year to get rained out. If that so, I don't think that's worth maybe the one hundred million dollar additional taxpayer investment that maybe could be going to more meaningful purposes. So that's the two cents, and just wanted to make my and John's argument heard. 00:51:09 Speaker 1: Wow, would you like to respond to that? I believe that was from from brother Goldstein, brother brother Spencer Goldstein. 00:51:17 Speaker 2: I've never heard that person's voice in my entire life. No, I'm kidding. I'm sitting here laughing because I have this argument multiple times a year with them, every time there's a rain now, and it's basically like a line drawn in the sand, there's no in between. It's the line that you and I are on about I'm so tired of stadiums not having roofs. And then where Spencer is and my one other friend that say, why do you care so much? Why do you make such a big deal out about it? By the way, it's never logically going to happen. I don't care if it's never logically going to happen. Like sure, whoever that random caller was that I totally don't know, was standing there and making a lot of valid points. I'm not here to talk about valid points. I'm here to talk about being frustrated that games are getting canceled in the only sport that gets canceled for rain, for weather. 00:52:10 Speaker 1: Here's a question, lyle, if they had played basketball games on outdoor basketball courts at rained, they would cancel the game, right, That's. 00:52:18 Speaker 2: What I'm saying. 00:52:19 Speaker 1: So so so okay, then then figure me this. So the NBA decided then to play every game on time, all all the whole season. What what did they do to make sure that happened? They built a roof? 00:52:39 Speaker 7: What? 00:52:41 Speaker 2: No way? Oh, Spencer's probably gonna send another voicemail next week now. 00:52:48 Speaker 1: Good, good, good. I hope he does. Some good points made there again. And also, states don't have to pay for stadiums. There are some privately financed stadiums out there. Climate Prey Climate Pledge Arena, I believe is privately funded in Seattle, right, So that was privately funded. I think so, yeah, I think that was privately funded. So like, it's not it's not like it doesn't have to be that way. If someone really wants it, they can absolutely pay for it. It's not not not one hundred percent. And I don't think that's something that is in the CBA. That's something that's between the states and the teams. 00:53:22 Speaker 2: Here's the other thing about this. I understand that the historic ballparks are probably not gonna have roofs. What would it look like with a roof on rig on Wrigley Field, Yeah, maybe wouldn't make sense. On Fenway Park, maybe wouldn't make sense. The fact that parks like Coors Field are being built in the New Age in a state that snows in April and is not being required to put a roof on it. That's crazy. I don't know. 00:53:46 Speaker 1: The target field. 00:53:48 Speaker 2: Target Field is another when it's just like twenty degrees and windy and snowing in April and there's no roof. 00:53:56 Speaker 1: Wow, why did they build the Metrodome? 00:53:58 Speaker 2: Why did they? 00:53:58 Speaker 1: Why did they build it inside? Can you tell me why did they? Why did they build that inside? Why is it in Minnesota? They had to do that because, oh yeah, because it's really fucking cold and it's, like you said, it snows. 00:54:09 Speaker 2: You're telling me that that Seahawks Vikings playoff game from twenty sixteen isn't what all sports should be like. When it was negative four degrees and they had to heat the field from underneath the turf because it was freezing. 00:54:22 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, a Ada Packers play outside. 00:54:25 Speaker 2: Yes they do. Yeah. If you guys want Teja and I to respond to voicemails, you could probably send something about building roofs on stadiums, because oh, we could make a whole different podcast about that. Well, I mean, if you get us triggered about that, we'll probably get going about it. So, like we've done here in the last few minutes, I. 00:54:42 Speaker 1: Have two requests when teams build stadiums from now on. Number One, do not put it in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of a parking lot, boring, unimaginative glame game day environment. Two, at least Milwaukee qualifies for the second thing, where they put a fucking roof on their stay like, at least that at least they did one thing right with that stadium, which, by the way, is now being held hostage for more public money to renovate until they yank a team and put it somewhere else. But that's a different topic for a different day. So those two requirements, please. 00:55:19 Speaker 2: I'm all for it. Listen, just build roofs on the new stadiums. That's all we ask. I can let the Wrigley Fenway stuff go but build roofs on new stadiums, And that is my closing point. 00:55:31 Speaker 1: What a beautiful closing point it was. 00:55:34 Speaker 2: We ready to get the pitching inja here. I feel like people are probably ready to hear him. 00:55:38 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm very happy you were able to get this interview. He was a Rob knows so much. I mean, he spends all day looking at pictures, watching pictures, and he's pretty good at what he does. Like you know, he's he creates content around pitching and it's fantastic. So we're really happy to get the opportunity to have him on. 00:55:58 Speaker 2: He was so cool. I mean when we saw that he was available for this interview, we were so excited. I mean, it's like we tweeted out this week. Look, all of our guests, we talk about it every week. All of our guests have genuinely been awesome. We have enjoyed every single person that we've had on. But truthfully, yes, we are a little bit extra juice to have Rob on the show because he is awesome at what he does. He's entertaining. The conversation we had, which is very Mariner's base, by the way, is really cool because he breaks down what makes so many of these pictures so lethal and so fun to watch, so he gives a pretty cool perspective on it. 00:56:35 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, he's pretty popular, so to carve out some time for us, you know, at men a lot, and we got I thought we got some really fantastic content out of the interview, which which was awesome. We got a little bit into his background too, and hey, I think we might be able to get to catch up to him at at All Star weekends. So I guess we'll have to find out there. But for more that, you can hear it in our conversation. So let's get to our interview with the Pitching Ninja, Rob Friedman. You might know him as the Pitching Ninja on Twitter on YouTube as well. He's an MLB analyst for Fox Sports, Major League Baseball, Peacock and fan Duel. 00:57:12 Speaker 5: Rob. 00:57:12 Speaker 1: We appreciate you taking some time to join us today. Just wanted to start because we know you're based in Atlanta. You didn't so happen to hear over the weekend? Could you hear the glove popping from Truest Park when you know, Bryce, George Kirby and Logan Logan we're pitching. I know you got a busy schedule to keep to, so you might not have been there, but could you hear it from where you are? 00:57:33 Speaker 2: Oh? 00:57:33 Speaker 3: Absolutely it was. I mean I'm like twenty miles away, but you can definitely hear it, no doubt. 00:57:40 Speaker 1: Yeah. So those are three guys. I mean, we'll just jump right into it in terms of in terms of Mariners pitchers. We know you're a big fan of these guys. You had George and Logan on your YouTube channel and on your podcast earlier this season. Fantastic interview. You can go check it out on YouTube and look up that interview. So I guess we want to just dive into Mariner's pitch and we can start. I think we'll start with George because he just started most recently this weekend. This interview will air in about a week and a half from now, so George might have thrown another complete game by the time we're talking here. But I mean, it's just so amazing, right Rob, of what George Kirby does on the mound, and you gave him such a glowing comp you said, Greg Maddox, but with ten miles an hour at it on top of it, which is pretty lofty, but it doesn't seem like he lets any of that comp really phase him at all. He's a very unique character. 00:58:31 Speaker 3: He really is. I actually told him that during the interview too, and then said it recently, But I don't think it's that much like I'm talking about command wise. I mean, dude's got what a point eight walks per nine, which is just crazy for a dude who also throws ninety seven ninety eight. Like very impressive guy, good head on his shoulders, even keeled and for like younger pitcher. To me, a lot of times command is the last thing that comes, and they usually have a lot of stuff and not command. He's got both and uh, you know, very very impressive pitcher. 00:59:11 Speaker 2: I've got to say, just quickly, going back to the interview you did with Kirby over the off season, I thought it was hilarious when you basically called him out for trying to throw a brag in on your show, and it was in the most George Kirby way possible. Right, He's kind of sitting there and he says, yeah, I seem to start in a lot of one counts or just pitchers counts, And you're like, is that your way of saying Oh, I'm George Kirby and I never throw balls. I thought that was hilarious. 00:59:34 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so hard for me to throw a ball, like I have to do it on purpose because my command is so good. Yes, exactly, that's uh, that's Georgia the nuts. No, he's a really good dude, and you know, you guys are lucky to have him. He's frement and every level he's been, he's had that command and stuff. So I expect a lot out of that guy. And he's gonna be in the Cy Young He's gonna be in Cy Young contention probably most years, like really really good. 01:00:03 Speaker 1: And we know he's eventually going to start throwing a splitter too. I can't even imagine, like how much better he gets when he starts throwing one. 01:00:10 Speaker 3: Exactly like he said, he picked up Gosman splitter, which apparently other people have done too. They saw my interview with with Gosman from last year, and Joe Ryan picked up his splitter from that too, So we've got got splitters all everywhere now, and I love it, Like I think the WBC showed a lot of pitchers how important splitters are in Gosman success. Obviously too, but it's a big deal. And for him to be throwing I mean, if he throws that consistently with his stuff, yeah, I mean as long as he commanded, because I know he's probably a stickler for something he can command and throw in the son. 01:00:46 Speaker 1: What makes a Gosman splitter unique? 01:00:49 Speaker 3: Oh, you got to see my interview with Gosman. Dude, it is like he the longest pitch description I've ever had in an interview, and it's amazing, like the amount of stuff he can do with his splitter. How he went through to get the grip. I mean, it's a very unique grip. It almost seems like the ball should be falling out of his hand the way he grips it, and he like things Like he said, he knows he doesn't throw it between starts, so he doesn't throw it in bullpens because he gets blood blisters when he throws it. But he also knows that when he gets a blood blister during a game, that means it's really good that day. So really unique, unique grip and unique pitch. And Kirby did mention he picked it up, but it's a it's uh, I mean, you've seen Cosmon success with it. It's crazy. 01:01:41 Speaker 2: Do you feel like one of Kirby's pitches is underrated because some of his secondary stuff has started to take a step this year. 01:01:48 Speaker 3: I love his curveball, but the thing that I think is underrated is people don't realize how hard the dude throws. Like I hear command guy, and everybody hears a command guy, and you think, all right, well it it's like, you know, Bryce Elder for the Braves or you know, going back Greg Maddox, Tom Glavin type guys. And I don't think he gets enough credit for overpowering stuff. His two seamer too, like his improvement. He just picked that up in the middle of the year last year and told me he never threw a front hip two seamer before the like the second half of last year, and now it's like his favorite pitch to throw because he gets guys jumping out of away of it and stuff. 01:02:26 Speaker 1: Rob I want to go back to splitters here for a second, because I think it's going to relate to the next guy we're gonna want to touch on as well. So I think the status out there that only two percent of pitches thrown in the US are splitters. And this came around a lot during the WBC because, as you mentioned, Team Japan really really sort of brought that to the forefront. I think they jumped it up even farther. And I think you and Chris Langan, who we've had on this podcast before, mentioned like just curious of why, like why is it so like why is it not being thrown as much in the US. There's this perception that it leads to more injuries as well. Is that true? Is there is there basis behind that? 01:03:03 Speaker 3: There's not, But that is the reason why I think it's not thrown as much in the US is for years there are some pictures that had gotten hurt that threw splitters, but there are pictures that got hurt to throw everything. There's no scientific basis for it. It was just anecdotal stuff. So people be like, oh, yeah, so and so through a splitter, it's really because you split your fingers. It adds to stress on your forum. None of that has turned out to be true. There is no science that shows a splitter is more dangerous, but it did lead to people not developing splitters. And in the different difference is in Japan, the splitter is an art form, like there are multiple types of splitters. It's not just I throw a splitter, it's I throw a gyro splitter, or or I throw a ghost fork, or I throw something unique. And here it's just like, oh yeah, I throw a splitter, and it's I wanted to drop and have the same spin. We haven't even we It's like a national pitch in Japan now and it's not in the so there's a big room for pitchers to add it and I love seeing it, like I think that it absolutely should be in everybody's bag of tricks to the extent it works with the rest of your stuff. 01:04:12 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna assume the way TJ's trying to segue is now over to Logan Gilbert here, because he's a guy that learned to splitter this offseason, and there were reports that he kind of picked up the same type of splitter that Code I Senga was using, and it seems like it's worked for him pretty well so far. I mean, is that a pitch that you really like? 01:04:29 Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely, And I think it's made a big difference in the way Gilbert attacks folks. I've always liked his style. Like to me, those guys are opposites and I mentioned that too than when I interviewed him. I'm like, tell me if I'm wrong, because I see Gilbert as a fiery Max Scherzer type guy, where you know, he's got that little k dismissal when he strikes somebody out, he almost like waves them off the field. I'm like, get away, I'm done with you, whereas Kirby's more straight faced and has a lower heart beat. So yeah, I think I think it works really well with what he throws. He's aggressive with it, he's had good success with it, and he's just a really good picture. Like his command doesn't suck either. It's not like he is all over the place. He's a Mariner's pitching staff is going to be good for a long time. 01:05:19 Speaker 1: It is. What is it about what the Mariner's pitching philosophy is that you think it makes makes them also good? 01:05:26 Speaker 3: So to me, it's less about it's less about stamping people. Like some organizations have people that they're like, well, you're going to be this guy, and we do it this way. To me, they take everybody's strengths and use that to their advantage instead of being locked into one way of doing things. So that's their key is being flexible and bringing out what's best in the picture to help them succeed, versus saying this is organizationally the way we're going to do things. 01:05:53 Speaker 1: Could that also be tied into letting a guy be a little bit more emotional on the mountain like a logan Gilbert, which he says, you know, that's just Walter coming out for the most part. Is that are there have you heard of I guess organizations I guess, or just teams that want guys to tone it down on the mountain they think it affects them a little bit too much. 01:06:15 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there definitely are organizations that are more stoic in their in their pitching, and it's definitely not like you. You want the picture to be himself on the mound. If you're not yourself, you're not going to be at your best. So I like their philosophy and stuff. I haven't talked to any of the coaches there to see if that really is the way it's going. It just seems to me as an outsider looking in it kind of is. 01:06:41 Speaker 4: So. 01:06:42 Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's my perception. I'd like it. I think that it's showing its results on the field too. 01:06:49 Speaker 2: I think that's something both Jerry Depoto and Scott Service have always preached a bunch is letting players be themselves and letting them be who they are. Honestly, I can't think of a better example of anybody with the Mariners organize to fit that mold. Then with Paul Sewald and not just what you were talking about, to your point of they try to cater to the players where they learned with Seawald, you're at your best when you throw high fastballs and a lot of sliders. But also when Paul Seawald was with the Mets, he wasn't screaming and turning around and showing all this flare, and now he does. So it's you know, he kind of rejuvenated his career and the Mariners kind of catered to him, like you were talking about. 01:07:22 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and you know, or you have a guy like Matt Brash who you're able to take his positives and use it to his advantage, Like he's got crazy breaking stuff and you know, we're not going to change him to make sure that he's always in the zone and just you know, going to be He's not a George Kirby He's just a different type pitcher, and they all can be successful. You don't have. As a matter of fact, you're probably more successful having a lot of variation on your staff than Cookie Cutter. I mean the Rays have showed that too, right, Like you have a bunch of different variations of folks. 01:07:55 Speaker 1: When you watched Matt Brash's slider for the first time, did you look at that and say, man, this is like these pitchers are the reason like I start making content and showing people these kinds of things. 01:08:05 Speaker 3: Oh, hell yeah I did. 01:08:07 Speaker 5: Yeah. 01:08:07 Speaker 3: No, I saw in the minor leagues and I was like, I was like, what in the name of Carrie Wood is this? Like he was just throwing stuff that broke all over the place that actually literally reminded me of Carrey Wood, Like it was that good of stuff, and this was, you know, a minor league pitcher. And then I heard from some coaches in the minor leagues who coached against him, going, oh, this isn't really fair. Dude is throwing a hundred with this stuff and he's making our guys look terrible. Like he should be at another league. Get him out of here. And that was pretty much the way everybody thought about him and stuff is off the charts. Good. 01:08:43 Speaker 2: Chris Langan, who's the director of pitching a drive line, like TJ said, we had him on a few weeks back. I mean he called it the best pitch in baseball history, just in terms of stuff and movement. 01:08:52 Speaker 3: Interesting because I wouldn't be I think they see a lot of stuff. You know. I've been a drive line since before they even had like a real facility. Kyle and I go back a long way, so I have a lot of respect for them and for what they do, and that opinion means a lot. Like I do think that's probably true that this the velocity throws it at and the movement is just ridiculous. 01:09:19 Speaker 1: You like to talk about tunneling a lot. You like to talk about arm angles a lot. So I think of that in the way for Matt Brash, whose fastball has been hittable, it's been shown to be hittable this year as well, and he doesn't control it quite as much. What does a cutter do is for his repertoire. He was working on it over the offseason. He worked on it at Driveline. Haven't really seen it at We haven't seen it at all. This season. That has not yet to be registered as a pitch this year. But what would a cutter like that do for his repertoire going forward? 01:09:50 Speaker 3: So part of the issue with having like everybody loves seeing pitches that move a lot, right, Like, it's one of my my favorite things too. You see Shoheo Tani throwing ridiculous sleepers that break twenty inches and you're, like, everybody can understand why that's filthy. The problem with that sometimes is lack of command of it. So when you have a you know, you have these pitches that break a ton, it looks great, but if you can't throw it in the zone, hitters are gonna take it. With a cutter, taking a little bit off that movement, you're adding back some velocity and you're able to throw it in the zone a little more and it helps disguise some of his bigger sweeping pitches too. So definitely agree that that would be a good pitch. The question is, you know, can you command it, Like you know, if you can't command your fastball, can you command a cutter? Depends? It depends on the pitcher. Everybody's different, and to me, Brash's development is very natural and normal. You don't often see guys come to the league with that crazy good stuff that have amazing command of everything. It comes later, like he'll understand you know your body better, you know your mood. Like it's just one of those things that develops over time. So everybody needs to be patient because I've seen too many times where people trade away somebody. They're like, you know, this guy sucks, he's never gonna be anybody will trade him. And the fans are like, yeah, we traded this guy, and then they're like, why didn't he do this when he was with us? He's killing us. Now he's on another team and he's doing great. And it's a lack of patience that people have with young pitchers. People did it with Blake Trining back in the day. Like I know, they're fans like, yeah, he's got great movement, but he can't throw strikes and these you know, the results are terrible, and then all of a sudden he put it together and they're like, well, why didn't he do that here? I'm like, because you didn't have any patients for him. Like, fans need to be patient young pictures. With young pictures especially, there's gonna be ups and down, so chill, It'll be okay. 01:11:44 Speaker 2: Oh, there's been a lot of that on Twitter the last week or two with Brash, which is I mean, Twitter is such a cesspool and it's it's like it's not real, right, So you shouldn't take these opinions that heavily. But you see all this stuff with Brash, and I couldn't disagree with it more just because one, like you said, is stuff is so good too. Guy's been just about the unluckiest pitcher in baseball, Like he's been getting Babbitts left and right. I mean, all of his numbers are expected to come down, which is why I'm not freaking out or anything. 01:12:11 Speaker 3: Don't freak out and Twitter. Twitter could be great and it could be terrible. I don't like like I am generally not negative towards players because believe me, they're all trying their best, and when a guy's got that stuff wins at the end of the day. Almost every time, stuff wins. And I know the drive line guys get that too. So you want that stuff, you'll figure out how to make it play. Occasionally, it doesn't like occasionally stuff you know, maybe some command never happens, but very seldom, So I would rather have Matt Brash's stuff than not have Matt Brash's stuff. 01:12:48 Speaker 2: I agree, you know, just talking about stuff. And while we're on the topic of relievers here, so a guy that hasn't thrown that much this year is Andre's Munno's. But we've been sitting here talking about Brash's sliders so much. I'm gonna put you on the spot a little bit here. But if Andre's Munoz was in any other bullpen, would his slider rank among the best of the group, And if not, how many bullpens would his slider be the best of the group. 01:13:12 Speaker 3: I'd say most bullpens, it would be the best of the group. You know, there are guys like Edwin Diaz who you know, also unhittable slider, and there's there's some other guys that would be up there, but his his way up there in the field. Like he's a very very important reliever. Love watching him pitch overpowering stuff and uh, you know every bullpit. He would pitch in every bullpen and be lights out in every bullpen in the major leagues. So yeah, he's fantastic. 01:13:45 Speaker 1: Just to wrap up, I guess the starting rotation because Bryce Miller has broken onto the scene and done stuff that we haven't really seen in baseball. For got to come up here and limit bas runners and really throw his fastball as much as he has his first couple of times up. Like, what's what's so impressed about what you've seen? It just it's so bizarre to see somebody come up and throw about seventy percent one pitch and still be essentially unhittable for the most part. 01:14:12 Speaker 2: Oh. 01:14:13 Speaker 3: Absolutely, the league will catch up to that. So league everybody adjusts. Eventually, they catch up to that, which is why he knows that he has a ton of secondary pitches in his back pocket. But you don't have to throw it until you have to throw it. So he's doing the exact right thing. But you know, someone like Spencer Strider can rely on a fastball too and dominate with it because I mean, I say, the legal catch up. They haven't caught up to him either, so you know it may take a little bit. But love that. I love the fact that unhittable fastball is the best thing in baseball. If your fastball is unhittable, you usually can command it in the zone and uh, you don't go away from it until you have to, and he knows that, so very relying on his fastball and should be. He's doing everything right. Another very exciting young pitcher, and he's one of those guys that I have to watch, like one of you guys burst on the scene initially and it's basically must watch baseball for me every time he's out there. We haven't even touched on Castillo, who is you know, also similarly ridiculous and a young pitcher to himself. 01:15:20 Speaker 1: You threw Strider out there, so when you break these guys down, why is Bright? Why are Bryson Strider so similar? 01:15:28 Speaker 3: Basically fastball keeps us playing really well. You know, he's he's got a really good spin rate. He's got a higher spin rate than than Strider does, I believe, and he's able to His fastball ride is really superb makes it really hard to hit. So you're swinging in a pitch you think you're squaring it up and instead you're swinging under it because it's not dropping like you think it should. And that's a really really valuable tool to have. 01:15:56 Speaker 2: Okay, you just mentioned Luis Castillo, so let's jump to him here for a second. If do you like his fastball better or his change up. 01:16:05 Speaker 3: You know, his change up was at one point the best change up of probably any starter in baseball for a period of time. It's come back down a little bit, and uh, to me, it's the way he uses all his pitches, Like I thought, he uses his slaughter really well recently too. He's a competitive dude. Pitches with a lot of flair. He's always been that way. Love watching his case truts and stuff. But it's tough. Like his change up's really pretty, and I obviously like that a lot. I'm a big change up guy generally, but I don't want to just you know, I think all his pitches. I'm just a big fan of casting. 01:16:46 Speaker 1: What causes a change up which has sort of a you know, it's a pretty consistent motion and pretty consistent I guess result. What would lead a change up to sort of become less effective? 01:16:58 Speaker 3: People are sitting on him, or they've seen it more, or it starts a mild I mean, if you add other pitches or start throwing other pitches more, you lose a feel. A change up's a really big feel pitch. He's thrown enough in his life. I doubt he's lost the feel of it could be a little bit, but that's kind of it. It's either the lead catching up to it. You can simulate that change up and say, okay, well now I know what it. You know looks like coming at me, or it's castillo. Maybe losing it means you could lose a tiny bit of feel for it. I think sures are called it a mid rag and jumper, like you have. It's a total feel thing, and some days you have it, some days you don't. 01:17:38 Speaker 2: How about getting back to the bullpen here. I know we're jumping around a bunch, but there's so many marriage I was gonna say, there's so many mariners guys that I think are so fascinating to talk about, and you're about as good a person to talk to about him as anybody. 01:17:50 Speaker 4: You know. 01:17:50 Speaker 2: You kind of help justin Topa get into the big leagues a few years back, can you tell us? And just kind of dive in a little bit on that story. 01:17:59 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I started flat Ground years ago as a way of like, there are a bunch of people that used to tag me. They're pitchers looking for jobs or pictures, looking for colleges, and I was like, there's got to be a way to help these guys without like, you know, most people don't follow me to watch up and coming pitchers who were looking for schools. And I always felt like I was like if someone tagged me, I wanted to help them. So I tried to turn all my followers that were coaches at colleges and MLB scouts and pitching coaches to get them contact, get them folks to see without you know, watering down what I normally would do. So I started a flat Ground to really raise these guys up TOPA was one of those guys. And I've had like forty guys from Flat Ground or forty or fifties signed with MLB teams MLB organizations after being featured. He's one of them. Just thought of stuff. I mean, you know, throwing upper nineties doesn't grow on trees, nasty movement on his pitches. Seemed like he had a good work ethic, and yeah, I love seeing those guys succeed. 01:19:06 Speaker 1: Wasn't he like blown away Ivy League kids? 01:19:09 Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean I think when I saw him it was mostly he was like in a facility throwing or something like that. Yeah, and had Yeah, I feel like it was obvious he was gonna be really good and he should be picked up by a team. And it's one of those things that I love. Like to me, it's just a great story and it's part of part of why I like social media. So I am I try to be positive on it, and if I can help somebody, I think it's fantastic And it just makes for I don't want anybody to sit there and go I could have been somebody if I only got I've only got seen or only had my shot. And I consider an honor to be able to help those guys. So I thought it was fantastic. 01:19:48 Speaker 1: So that sounds like a big part of I guess some of your work that you do on the day to day. But people see all the stuff you put out on Twitter and all the content you put on in YouTube every single day. You know, best pitches of the day, interviews, et cetera, all this kind of stuff. Could you give us a peek behind a curtain of what your day looks like. I mean, you've got a lot of things to track on a given day in Major League Baseball. 01:20:11 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's a lot. My wife always says, like you work like fourteen sixteen hour days and I'm like, yeah, I do, and the off season I don't, so that's good. But yeah, the during the regular season, once game start, I am constantly watching games, which is why I'm very careful about scheduling interviews and all that stuff, because it drives me crazy to do it during a game. I just can't in the morning. So I gather that tweet stuff during during well games are being played, and then the next morning go through them and just sort through and then come up with a basically a list of all the pitches I want to feature, try to come up with a theme over all of it. That usually takes a couple of hours, you know, up at like say six something, and take a couple hours, do voice over on and put the video together, get it out late after the late morning, maybe early afternoons sometimes, and then get ready to wash and rinse and repeat again every day. So that's what I do. 01:21:13 Speaker 2: It seems like, what's that's fun? 01:21:16 Speaker 3: I'm saying it like it's work. But I wouldn't do it if I didn't like to do it. I didn't start like this is far from like a job to me. It's more front, it's just a fun thing to do. And it's a hobby that happens to be doing really well. 01:21:30 Speaker 2: That was gonna be My next question is do you enjoy all the long hours? And it sounds like you do, and I, honestly, I'd say it's similar with what we're doing with this podcast, like we put a lot of time and hours into it, but I but we do it because we genuinely enjoyed it all. So it sounds like it's the same thing with you. 01:21:44 Speaker 3: I think everybody would pick up on it if I didn't. Like if I start, if I start saying, boy, this sucks, I have to watch baseball all day, and I just you know, yeah, there it is another filthy pitch. You'll be able to pick up my tone, and I think it would just suck, Like I wouldn't do it if I if that was it's not me either, Like I've generally am positive about all this stuff, and what I love is every day watching games and knowing that this could be a day I see something I hadn't seen before, and that that excites me to watch every single pitch that I can. 01:22:20 Speaker 1: Okay, so this question might be exciting to you because it lets you be a little bit more creative so I'd a thought, Okay, if Rob is going to build the ideal Mariner's pitcher using individual pitches from different Mariners pitchers, what are you going to build? What are you choosing? 01:22:37 Speaker 3: I would have to take you know, as hard because I don't want to leave everybody else's fastballs off the table. But well, maybe you gots too, Like could I? I like, like Bryce Miller's fastball is something that I think you've got to have, Like it's a little bit of a unicorn pitch. I would take Matt Brash's slider. I'd take George Kirby's command with Logan Gilbert's competitiveness, and I like his splitter too. I think that's nasty. Could I also add like Munoz is a second slider on there, and then add uh, I would take Luis Castillo's case strutt and his change up. I don't know what else do I need. I think I'm doing pretty well with that, Like I'm pretty confident attitude I need. Yeah, I think I'll take Castillo's change up on that. 01:23:32 Speaker 2: Add all that up and that guy's career era is what oh four? 01:23:37 Speaker 3: Yeah, all that stuff with George Kirby's command. Yeah, absolutely, I no one's hid in that, Like if you can, if everybody had George Kirby's command and all that stuff, you're Yeah. 01:23:49 Speaker 2: I think we've got one final question for you as we start to wrap this up. And maybe this is a tough question, like asking a parent to pick their favorite kid, But do you have a favorite pitch in all of baseball? 01:24:00 Speaker 3: A favorite pitch? Yeah? I do. It's the pitch that I named the airbender. Devin Williams change up is my favorite pitch in baseball. Like, if I had to pick one. 01:24:10 Speaker 1: Is it just because you gave it a name that stuck so well? 01:24:14 Speaker 3: Maybe it's legit maybe mentioned a unicorn pitch. It's a unicorn pitch. It's the highest spin rate change up in baseball. I love the story of it too, because he told me that in the minor leagues they said, your change up's gonna suck because it has two highest spin rate, And like that is the key. And what I mentioned earlier with the Mariners is pulling stuff out. You got to figure out what makes somebody unique, because in the end, it's those unicorn pitches that help you dominate because hitters react either to something that is react differently to stuff they haven't seen before, and it's very hard to replicate Devin Williams change up or Bryce Miller's fastball, or you know a bunch of different things say that that. You know. That's why I like it so much is it's very effective. He can throw that all day. It also makes his fastball, you know, unhittable because you have to sit on something. You can't just react to Williams's change up, so you know if you sit on that, he's gonna blow a fastball by Yeah. 01:25:20 Speaker 1: It helps when you also throw up her nineties like you said, Yeah, that's always useful. I mean nice tunnelings. Yeah, nice tunneling. 01:25:26 Speaker 3: And over the other. Yeah, VLO definitely matters. And don't let anybody tell you it doesn't matter. Like you can get away with a lot more stuff if you have plus VLLO. It just does. It's true. 01:25:38 Speaker 1: Well, I think I topped out around seventy one, so don't I don't think I could do anything. I think Lyle might throw a little harder. 01:25:44 Speaker 3: But then you just need command, right, Like, if you have plus command and throwing seventy one, I mean you're gonna get hit. 01:25:50 Speaker 2: Probably, And what's your spin rate? 01:25:53 Speaker 3: Oh yeah. I mean if you have like smaller hands five thousand rpm spin rate seven people wouldn't be able to hit it the buld fly in the air. 01:26:02 Speaker 1: I think, no, it wouldn't. I don't think my elbow would be intact either, But you know that's a that's that's a later I think that's a later problem. 01:26:09 Speaker 3: You'd problems, you know, a lot of sticky stuff like super glue or something to add your sanders. 01:26:13 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I don't think they checked those at like little league. I don't think. I don't think they don't have enough the manpower to check my hands. So I just kind of brush it off and I think would be okay. 01:26:21 Speaker 3: They don't do so well at the major league level either. 01:26:24 Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, Rob, this was fantastic. I mean you you were. You were one of the brightest people in the in the content creation world, and especially talking pitching as well. 01:26:34 Speaker 5: We do. 01:26:34 Speaker 1: We really appreciate you taking some time to join us here. We learned a lot as always, and I mean, I don't think there's anyone better to break down pitching than you, and you do great content every day. I mean I'm always watching whatever things you're you're promoting, so we appreciate it. Thanks so much for taking some time to join us. 01:26:50 Speaker 3: Well, thanks for having me on, guys. 01:26:55 Speaker 2: Awesome interview with Rob Freeman, the Pitching Ninja. I hope you guys enjoyed it, and I hope you learn something because I can sit here and tell you that we certainly did. All right, TJ. Let's let's take a look here down on the farm. Who have you been keeping your eyes on over the last week. 01:27:14 Speaker 1: What was the last time we heard this name? Zach Deloche, I mean, the former future of the outfield he is, it has not quite gone as swimmingly, the twenty twenty second round pick. While he's been down on the Mariners system, he's you know, struggled at times at you know, all the levels of the minor leagues. But he made it up to TRIPAA this year and he has been on quite a hot street recently. He's, as of recording this on a fourteen game hitting streak and Tacoma slashing three forty four four twenty five four sixty nine along that streak w RC plus of one twenty three, walking eleven percent of the time. Again, when he was drafted, I think the Mariners had the idea that eventually he would be a big league caliber outfielder, which he still could be. He's probably never going to start in his big league career, at least not what the Mariners is seem like that way, doesn't seem like his bat quite as that kind of upside in it, which is pretty much why they drafted him. 01:28:06 Speaker 6: He was. 01:28:07 Speaker 1: You know, he got off to a super hot start in his in the COVID short of twenty twenty season with Texas A and M. We saw him on the Cape where he made some tweaks and he really hit well with the wood bat, and the Mariners were looking at that in a short sample in twenty twenty, you're like, all right, this guy's potentially be like a legit bat. It has not been that way, but at very least this year he's made it to drip play and he's had his fair shear of hot streaks. Overall for the season, he's i think at a one oh six Tobey RC plus and recently has been on a super hot streak. So he's adjusting a little bit to the top level with the minors. 01:28:40 Speaker 2: His whole thing was once he got to double A, I think things got a little tougher for him, because if you remember when he was an evert dude was lighting the world on YRA back in twenty twenty one, we couldn't. I mean, we were so excited about the bat. And look, I mean, he's still had a productive minor league career. It's just that once he got to double A, things tailed off a little bit. It was a little bit more of an up and down year for him last now here this year in Triple A, it is a more hitters friendly league. But he's looking much better. So you're right, is the Loach gonna be an everyday outfielder. It's probably less likely at this point. Could he be a fourth outfielder and provide some value off the bench. That could still happen. The fact he's on this hit streak right now, I called out a positive side The guy I'm looking at this week trying to find some new names down in the miners because there are some guys that we have not talked about and have pitched or played very well. Devin Sweet. Now this is not a household name, but he's been in the Mariners system for a while now. He was a former starter. Now he's been turned reliever. He's been awesome in Arkansas this season. So he threw two shutout innings across two appearances this week, didn't give up any hits, struck out four guys. He's got a one eighty nine ERA in Double A this year, two forty nine to fifth, so ERA predictor says it should be a little bit higher, but not much higher. Along with the fact that he's striking out thirteen guys per nine, So this is a This is an arm who might have a future as a bullpen as a bullpen guy for the Mariners, just another depth. 01:30:07 Speaker 1: Piece, yeah, perhaps, and get in line. So yeah, who who are the Mariner's sitting down for him to come up? 01:30:14 Speaker 2: Right? I mean, you got Festa, You've got Castillo, You've got Barrella, You've got Isaiah Campbell, who's been good in Double A. You got Devin Sweet too. I mean, the Mariners are masters at this finding bullpen arms. But to have another guy who could do it, it's a good sign. 01:30:29 Speaker 1: Got some pretty nasty relievers down there down there in Arkansas, so we like to see that. And good on Devin Sweet. Yeah, I mean I haven't seen all that much of him, but yeah, he's he's been having an awesome season down there at double A. Okay, let's get to our favorite segment of this week, or Russell Wilson Umpire of this week, Lyle, would you like to bring in our contestant today? 01:30:53 Speaker 2: Let me pull up umpire scorecard here to make sure I have this right, because this guy had quite the week this week. Congratulations to Jordan Baker, who was behind the plate in a Rangers twelve to two win over the Orioles. This is unbelievable when you look at his umpire scorecard for the week. Not only was he ten percent below league average in called strike accuracy, they said he was almost negative four percent below expected, meaning he was awful behind the plate, like truly awful. I know it was a twelve to two game, but he was missing calls left and right. 01:31:36 Speaker 1: So if you go on Twitter and google Google, I believe you just needed google Jordan Baker, just or google it, search it in Twitter, you'll see some of the calls he missed. It was towards the end of a game. There was a position player pitching for Baltimore, and I forget exactly who it was lobbing it in. I mean, just truly lobbing it in and when Adlei Rutchman would catch the pitch, it would be in the strike zone. However, when you lob a pitch in, it doesn't necessarily, you know, go through the strike zone. It kind of goes over it and then down into his glove. So that resulted in the largest miss by an umpire in umpire auditor history. This account on Twitter, called umpire Auditor different from umpire scorecards. Umpire Auditor claimed this was the largest miss in the history of this account, a call missed by nineteen point two seven inches, that is a foot and a half outside of the strike zone. But it wasn't only that one. He also missed calls by eighteen and a half inches, nine and a half inches, seven inches, and four and a half inches. That that's almost impressive, Like that's almost impressively bad. 01:32:49 Speaker 2: People joke in these blowout games or long contests that, oh, umpires start making these calls and expanding their strike zones because they want to go home. When you're seeing pitches get called strikes, they are a foot and a half off the plate. Oh, they genuinely want to go home. They're at the point they've stopped caring. 01:33:06 Speaker 1: Foot and a half above the plate, so when the ball crosses home plate, it's at your head. Yeah, I mean pretty impressive. Please please go on to Twitter if you have a chance, go on to Twitter. Look at this. Go to umpire Scorecards. You can also go to their website www. Dot umpirescorecards dot com. Friday, May twenty sixth, Orioles Rangers. I mean, just go look at this thing. This should this scorecards you go to Cooper's Town. 01:33:32 Speaker 2: I think let's put it right there, right next to the Honus Wagner baseball card. 01:33:39 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's a good one. Two extremely rare properties. So congratulations, Jordan Baker, your name is forever etched in history. Is the largest, the biggest missed call in the history of I would say umpire tracking, So congratulations. That is quite an achievement. Nineteen inches nineteen Oh. 01:34:01 Speaker 3: My goll it. 01:34:01 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, let's close out the show with speak your mind. 01:34:07 Speaker 3: Speak your mind spunk. That would be unwise. 01:34:14 Speaker 2: What is necessary is never unwise. 01:34:18 Speaker 1: All right, Well, what's on your mind this week? 01:34:21 Speaker 2: I feel like we've talked about it almost every week since these playoffs have started, but it is relevant. Again. The scripted NBA is back and better than ever. If you happen to be watching Game six between the Celtics and the Heat, you might have seen a pretty ridiculous ending. I know the two of us were watching it. Jimmy Butler hits three free throws, he go up with three seconds ago. Celtics inbound the ball, they miss a three, put back goes in and they force a Game seven. Here's the thing about that. That put back went up and in out of his hands with about point one point one set seconds Togo. Somebody found this on Twitter and it's kind of gone viral. When Jimmy Butler got fouled, it was with two point one seconds left on the clock, but the refs magically decided they're gonna put three seconds on the clock. They're gonna add point nine seconds back on the game clock, and that shot went in with zero point one seconds. That put back's not going in if they actually got the clock right, and why did they do that, I don't know. I have my theories. They don't want a Nuggets Heap Final. They want a big market team in there, and they're trying to avoid it. 01:35:37 Speaker 1: By the time this episode comes out, Game seven will have already been played, so you'll know whether maybe some of this funky stuff has already been proven true. So I guess we'll find out. And I think what I saw, I think it was two point eight seconds is where the foul happened. I think that's where it was about two point eight regardless the shot from Derek White, the put back would have not counted. If there were two point eight seconds left the clock instead of three, the game would have been over. Yeah, but you're right. I think Adam Silver and all the people and the NBA executive office are looking at the projected ratings so these upcoming finals, like, can't have this now, we can't have this. What is funny what's probably gonna happen is even if the Celtics like they're they're gonna if they come back and win Game seven, you will know by the time this podcast comes out, if the Celtics come back from down three, I will be the first team out of one hundred and fifty one tries to come back down three to zero to win a series. An incredible accomplishment. I'm just never gonna fucking stop hearing from it from all the people I know in the state of Massachusetts. Just the most fucking annoying thing ever. No offense, guys, but it really is all that to probably losing five to the Nuggets. Yeah, I'm like Al Horford on Nikola Jokic, So congratulations. It's gonna be written about in the handles all to like losing a gentleman's suite to the Nuggets, which the NBA doesn't want, but I don't. I think it's inevitable at this point. 01:37:01 Speaker 2: Yeah, at the very least, they wanted to force a game seven, That's what I'll say. They wanted to have this storyline out there of no team's ever come back from down three to zero. They have it go seven games. Now, all eyes are going to be on the game. I mean as if they weren't already before, but now even more so. 01:37:16 Speaker 1: Yeah. 01:37:16 Speaker 2: There, you know they're cucking stuff up. Adam Silver is sitting up in his office like Adam Sandler and and uncut gems, you know, the gift of where it says this is how I win that. Yeah, that's Adam Silver right now. 01:37:26 Speaker 1: I mean, this is just a week after the NBA cooked up another generational European big to San Antonio. I mean just straight out of their their owner's manual of how to run the NBA. Okay, generational big man to a team with great foreign relationships, great relationships with foreign born players, especially when that's French and is in is a borderline Hall of Famer. Yeah, okay, Victor Wemgano, you're a San Antonio Spur. And then just a week later it's it's like it just keeps righting itself. Yes, and then they do these things like they send Zion to New Orleans to sort of throw off this end, like, see, we didn't put them as in New York. We're not gonna put them in New York. This isn't rigged at all. And then it's like we're seeing like we're seeing the paper trail. 01:38:16 Speaker 2: They keep us on their toe or they keep us on our toes. 01:38:19 Speaker 1: They really do my speaker mind. This week, I was gonna comment about college baseball, but I think it's kind of a null at this point. So I'm gonna I'm gonna pivot and we're gonna I'm gonna mention something else. Have you seen this Newton Town FC story? No, So this team that just I think over this weekend got promoted to the Premier League for the first time. They They're in this tiny town north of London. Uh they were in England's fifth tier of English soccer nine years ago and they are now in the Premier League. They were gonna more ten times the revenue of the next three years. They're going to collect more than two hundred million dollars in revenue after getting about twenty million in the second tier. They're gonna get two hundred million dollars guaranteed over the next three years in the Premier League. It's incredible. Their stadium is tenth as one hundred and twenty years old. It's situated right in the middle of their town, surrounded by homes. The entrance to the stadium you have to walk underneath people's houses to get in. It's it's insane. If you haven't seen it, I mean, go look it up on Twitter. They're entrance. You're walking underneath someone's living room into this stadium that's literally crammed into houses. Like you think Wrigley is crammed into a neighborhood, Like this stadium is actually crammed right into the middle of a neighborhood. And it's just an incredible story. This is the equivalent of a low A baseball team over the course of nine years winning enough to get promoted into Major League Baseball. 01:39:54 Speaker 2: Essentially sounds like they're AFC Richmond moment, which you don't get that reference because I know you're not a ted Lasso watcher, but that's kind of what it sounds like here. Now in ted Lasso, they don't have to enter the stadium by walking underneath any houses. But all right, now, I'm gonna look this up because I have not heard this story. 01:40:12 Speaker 1: It's a pretty cool story, and especially as someone who's not watched ted Lasso and someone who has a very, I guess, not great idea of how English soccer or European soccer promotion works, but it is. I remember, like lesh, I think Leicester or so something along those lines. I probably watched that pronunciation, you know me good pronouncer over here won the Premier League title at like plus thirty thousand a few years ago, and they actually got relegated, I believe during this this weekend as well, which is quite the quite the turnaround, but they won the Premier League a couple of years ago. I just it just kind of insane that, like, I like, if you think about it, Like in league's relegation would never be approved now because which which team ownership would dare like lose out on hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue for the sake of a good system, because like otherwise the A's would get relegated down to Triple A, to be quite honest, But in theory, like in soccer, it's like it's a great product because that means all the teams actually have to try, like a year after year. There's none of this rebuilding pole crap. You actually have to you know, try, and when you try, and you invest enough money into it, like this team has, you get promoted and it's it's a fantastic story. It seems like a bucket list stadium I'd like to see again. I'm a big fan of like urban stadiums, and this is you know, about as urban as you could possibly get for a stadium. So if you haven't seen it, go look up Lutontown FC, l U t O n Town FC. Pretty cool, pretty cool story. 01:41:46 Speaker 2: That sound like a cool story. It'd be, you know what, Relegation in American sports would certainly be something it's never gonna happen. But it would be something. I'll leave it at that. Okay, I think that's gonna just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Layer Podcast. You guys know the drill by now. If you want to follow our podcast and listen in full form, you can do so on Apple, Spotify, Google, Amazon, and you can watch the full video version on YouTube. Be sure to check us out on YouTube, hit the subscribe button, leave us a five star review on the audio forms, help us beat the algorithm. On all those platforms, and on social media. You can find us on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and YouTube shorts at Marine Layer Pod. We've got more player content coming this week. We've got some more fun player interviews, so if that's enough of an incentive to check those out, hopefully you'll go and do so so. For TJ. Matthewson, this is Lyle Goldsteine. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in and we'll talk to you next week