Lyle and TJ react to a couple of recent hot stove transactions, including the Mets signing Devin Williams, and potentially why the Mariners didn't get it done (2:30). They then dive into the free agent profile of Japanese SP Tatsuya Imai, and how there could be a world where the Mariners are interested (26:35).
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00:00 --> 00:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Bowman episode number 332 of the Marine Lair podcast.
00:03 --> 00:05 [SPEAKER_01]: We have another free agent profile for you.
00:06 --> 00:14 [SPEAKER_01]: This one, Tatsooya and Mai from Japan will talk about whether or not it makes sense for the Mariners to pursue him and what his fit on the roster would look like.
00:15 --> 00:20 [SPEAKER_00]: reminder to you guys before we start the show just do us a favor and make sure you're staying on top of everything we're doing.
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00:30 --> 00:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's over to our website, marinelayerpod.com and you can check us out all across socials at marinelayerpod.
00:36 --> 00:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get it rolling.
00:51 --> 00:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Lair podcast, part of the Just Baseball podcast network.
00:56 --> 01:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Recording here on Tuesday, evening, December 2nd, while would you like the good news of the MLB hot stove currently or the bad news?
01:07 --> 01:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, as Mariners fans have only had enough bad news on the hot stove over the years, sure, having with the good news.
01:13 --> 01:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the good news is it's good for this player.
01:16 --> 01:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I guess it's good for Mariners fans too.
01:18 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not so sure about the team that actually signed this player, though.
01:23 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Alec Minoa signed a major league contract with the Los Angeles Angels.
01:30 --> 01:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Guaranteed major league contract with the angels.
01:34 --> 01:37 [SPEAKER_01]: He had been DFAed by the Blue Jays.
01:38 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_01]: to put Anthony Sontond air back on the roster late in the season, while hurting, rehabbing.
01:43 --> 01:56 [SPEAKER_01]: The Bluegees told decided to not pay him money this year while he was under control that decided to just let him be a free agent, and the angels gave him a guaranteed contract to be in the big leagues this year.
01:58 --> 02:03 [SPEAKER_00]: All I can say is, belt to ass when he plays the Mariners.
02:04 --> 02:10 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners have not had not really gotten enough cracks at him after they beat him in the playoffs starting, made that comment.
02:11 --> 02:12 [SPEAKER_01]: But now they'll get their chance.
02:12 --> 02:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Whenever he returns, he's rehabbing from Tommy John.
02:16 --> 02:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Whenever he comes back, whenever he's healthy, yeah, he's going to get to face the Mariners.
02:20 --> 02:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Then, you know, I feel like Cal and who you might remember a thing or two.
02:24 --> 02:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's safe to say he is a much different pitcher than the last time they saw him.
02:30 --> 02:33 [SPEAKER_01]: He was actually good the last time they faced him.
02:35 --> 02:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I know the Mariners in game promotion team probably won't do this, but if they really want to get a reaction out of the crowd, if Alec Minoa pitches a team mobile park and the Mariners light them up, can you just start putting flat tires on the jumbo try and every time he gives up a run or maybe like the error escaping?
02:56 --> 02:58 [SPEAKER_00]: But there needs to be a tire up there.
02:58 --> 02:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure, there needs to be a tire.
02:59 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_01]: You can do both.
03:00 --> 03:02 [SPEAKER_01]: You get a little, because they ain't got nice big speakers.
03:02 --> 03:03 [SPEAKER_01]: You can do some sound effects.
03:03 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, Julio reps a double in all of a sudden here.
03:09 --> 03:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, for anybody that doesn't remember, when Alec Mino was asked about the pressure of pitching in the postseason and facing the Mariners, he said, pressure is something you put in tires.
03:21 --> 03:23 [SPEAKER_00]: The Mariners proceeded to chase them out of the game by what?
03:23 --> 03:24 [SPEAKER_00]: The fourth inning?
03:25 --> 03:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It did not take very long.
03:26 --> 03:27 [SPEAKER_01]: He was not fooling them.
03:28 --> 03:28 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
03:28 --> 03:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And then after that, he fell off a cliff.
03:31 --> 03:39 [SPEAKER_01]: He got hurt, he struggled with his weight, he couldn't throw strikes, he couldn't throw hard, he got lit up by minor leagueers.
03:39 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_01]: and the blue jays caught him.
03:41 --> 03:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, minor leagueers, they sent him all the way down to rookie ball in the complex league and he was getting lit up there.
03:46 --> 03:48 [SPEAKER_00]: He gave up 11 runs in a start.
03:50 --> 03:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Isn't this the most angels move ever to sign something like him?
03:54 --> 03:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it is.
03:57 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
03:57 --> 04:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Just like it's the most angels move ever for them to keep their GM, who's been there almost a decade by the way, since they got rid of Jerry.
04:05 --> 04:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he's not on anything.
04:08 --> 04:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Perry, Perry, Monocian hasn't been there that long, because you're forgetting the Billy Eppler days after Jerry left, and then Monocian came in.
04:14 --> 04:16 [SPEAKER_00]: He's been there, I don't know, three years ago.
04:16 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I thought Monocian's been there at least eight.
04:20 --> 04:22 [SPEAKER_00]: That sounds like it's too long.
04:23 --> 04:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say.
04:24 --> 04:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Wasn't Billy Eppler with the Mets?
04:27 --> 04:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but Eppler was the one who was there when they got show, hey.
04:33 --> 04:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I'm just not remembering this right, but Perry Manazin has been there for At least six or seven years.
04:42 --> 04:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, right.
04:43 --> 04:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
04:43 --> 04:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Manazin with named general manager in November of 2020.
04:46 --> 04:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe I've always been gone longer than I thought Oh, oh, he's only he's been there shorter than I thought.
04:52 --> 05:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyways Whatever time span you want to take of the angels whether you want to start in 2016 or you want to start in 2020
05:02 --> 05:03 [SPEAKER_01]: They haven't won anything.
05:03 --> 05:05 [SPEAKER_01]: They haven't showed progress of anything.
05:06 --> 05:09 [SPEAKER_01]: They haven't generated a young exciting core, really at all.
05:09 --> 05:11 [SPEAKER_01]: They haven't kept my trout healthy.
05:11 --> 05:12 [SPEAKER_01]: They haven't had a good pitching staff.
05:12 --> 05:13 [SPEAKER_01]: They haven't had a good bullpen.
05:14 --> 05:16 [SPEAKER_01]: They've had an OK offense.
05:17 --> 05:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So if we're not going to take a signing of Alqmanoa who a big league team told said to him, they didn't want him pitching for them.
05:26 --> 05:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And just opted to let him leave, yeah, that feels pretty angels.
05:32 --> 05:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and of all teams to reignite something from him.
05:36 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not thinking it's the angels.
05:39 --> 05:40 [SPEAKER_01]: No, really?
05:40 --> 05:55 [SPEAKER_01]: think of what Alchmanoa has dealt with right he's he he was a very he was a sort of a ready pitcher when he came out of college it did not take him very long to reach the big leagues once he got drafted and didn't take him very long to have a success at all.
05:56 --> 06:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So like the pitch strategy and the mechanical aspect of it has not really been at least at first not the issue for
06:02 --> 06:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, for Alcmino.
06:03 --> 06:23 [SPEAKER_01]: It's more been like a motivational factor and being in good health, which the blue jays were unable to do The angels are gonna be able to get that out of them The angels you and I saw that team at the end of the year did it look like they were bought in Plain hard Does it ever look like they're bought in and playing hard?
06:24 --> 06:28 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, I mean look shout out
06:28 --> 06:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Bryce Titozio, who's a long time, you know, who I've known for a long time because we were in the Caplee together.
06:34 --> 06:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I know I've talked about how Ryan Pepeo and I have stayed friends through the years from that.
06:37 --> 06:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Titozio was there the year after Pepeo, so it was 2019 the summer we were there.
06:42 --> 06:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And he was great when I got to see him for the first time in five or six years toward the end of the year.
06:46 --> 06:47 [SPEAKER_00]: That was awesome.
06:47 --> 06:58 [SPEAKER_00]: But as a whole, that group in general, and not really, would I be shocked if my trout's like getting off the golf course at that point in the year like 430?
06:59 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_00]: yeah straight from the golf course to the ballpark yeah i mean like i swear with the angels if you are a name have ever been a name or were once a top prospect they don't actually evaluate players they'll just those bring them in that they say hey we'll take a chance i mean look at all these names
07:16 --> 07:20 [SPEAKER_00]: They they tried it out there in 2025 that were once a name.
07:20 --> 07:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean you're talking about Logan Davidson Scott Kingery you're talking about Carter key boom all these guys were top 100 prospects that totally failed out and by the way
07:31 --> 07:32 [SPEAKER_00]: There's still more.
07:32 --> 07:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you want to talk about Lamont Wade.
07:34 --> 07:36 [SPEAKER_00]: You want to talk about Tim Anderson.
07:37 --> 07:40 [SPEAKER_00]: You want to talk about guys like, man, I don't know.
07:41 --> 07:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, like, this list just runs on and on.
07:43 --> 07:51 [SPEAKER_00]: If you were ever a name, they will bring you in hoping you're just going to somehow find your best self with an organization that doesn't develop anybody and then they don't.
07:51 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And that applies for what I thought was their best move of the offseason, where they somehow got Grayson Rodriguez for a one year of Taylor Ward.
07:58 --> 08:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Like Grison Rodriguez was at his peak as a prospect.
08:03 --> 08:08 [SPEAKER_01]: He's been a good big league at times, but he's also recovering from elbow surgery.
08:08 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So like who knows, and who knows that the angels are going to get that out of them, that move could honestly work out good for the angels.
08:15 --> 08:20 [SPEAKER_01]: But it is lying in line with like, oh, that's a was a big name a couple years ago.
08:20 --> 08:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's trade for him.
08:21 --> 08:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I again, like, they signed Joanne Moncata this year.
08:25 --> 08:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the same idea.
08:26 --> 08:28 [SPEAKER_00]: That guy had questions about his work ethic.
08:28 --> 08:29 [SPEAKER_00]: He hasn't been good in forever.
08:29 --> 08:34 [SPEAKER_00]: He did not pan out of the prospect, but the angels are like, sure let's bring him right in.
08:34 --> 08:51 [SPEAKER_01]: it is it is unreal and now you can add Alecman out of this list as long as they sell tickets that's that's the name of the game do they sell tickets with the Dodgers in town and still product yeah they still do you get you get the people leaking over from Disneyland and
08:51 --> 09:17 [SPEAKER_01]: people who are stuck on on I think they're right next to i5 stuck on i5 i i came over it's been so long so i've been there stuck on interstate traffic who just want to get out the freeway and they decide oh i can go to an angels game for probably like $20 so i'm just gonna go in there anyways because i've been to that stadium one time not memorable at all i think we got yelled at by dodger fans shocker um what else got i was gonna say something else
09:19 --> 09:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's just incredible how many times they do this with players like I'm even looking at somebody like Kevin Newman from this year who at one point Was a name and had a little and had some hype as a prospect, but again hasn't been good in the big leagues the angels are like yeah, just come on in I think about some others Well pull holes was okay, but but when they signed pull holes and they signed Josh Hamilton That's a little different you were expecting those guys to actually be good
09:47 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, you were a pool.
09:49 --> 09:50 [SPEAKER_00]: It was not washed, what he signed.
09:51 --> 09:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Pool holes may be not.
09:52 --> 09:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Josh Hamilton.
09:55 --> 09:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there were always concerns with Josh Hamilton, right?
09:58 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_00]: For obvious reasons, but, I don't know, man, same idea.
10:01 --> 10:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that when the angels signed him, they thought that he was just going to come in and fall off a cliff.
10:06 --> 10:08 [SPEAKER_00]: The guy had 43 harm runs the year before he signed.
10:10 --> 10:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And then he got introduced to the culture of the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim and was like,
10:17 --> 10:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, yeah, CJ Wilson and it's been a common theme for 15 years now.
10:21 --> 10:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I know it's I mean, they are a hilarious franchise in every way It is truly amazing that it was the same ownership in place when the angels were one of the most dominant teams of the 2000s Like they were legitimately one of the best franchises in baseball during the 2000s.
10:35 --> 10:36 [SPEAKER_01]: They were constantly good.
10:36 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_01]: They could actually beat the Yankees
10:38 --> 10:48 [SPEAKER_01]: They have really good players and since then it has been, despite landing the greatest player, perhaps ever in major league baseball, squandering all of it.
10:48 --> 10:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Greatest player.
10:49 --> 10:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you can argue at their peak the two greatest players ever on the same team.
10:55 --> 10:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I remembered what I was going to say.
10:56 --> 10:59 [SPEAKER_01]: You said, you don't do they sell tickets?
10:59 --> 11:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they sell tickets.
11:00 --> 11:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Low already, Morani will tell you sell tickets.
11:02 --> 11:07 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why he didn't sell
11:09 --> 11:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I still would have been fascinated to see what a show hey package would have looked like for happy year.
11:13 --> 11:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But you know what we'll never know because you couldn't sacrifice tickets sales.
11:16 --> 11:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Only for him to get injured like three weeks later and miss the rest of the year.
11:21 --> 11:22 [SPEAKER_01]: What a franchise.
11:22 --> 11:30 [SPEAKER_01]: If you want the bad news of hot stove transactions, loud and I had a golden darling sending out there on the free agent market that we really wanted.
11:31 --> 11:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, unfortunately signed earlier today on Tuesday.
11:35 --> 11:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Devon Williams is now in New York Matt.
11:37 --> 11:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Three years for $50 million.
11:42 --> 11:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess technically he might be my guest right.
11:44 --> 11:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
11:45 --> 11:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Monday.
11:46 --> 11:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll think about that as I came out on my mouth, but yeah, you get it.
11:51 --> 11:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this sucks.
11:53 --> 11:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Look, man, I'm not going to sit here and kill the Mariners for this by any stretch.
11:56 --> 11:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Because obviously, they sign nailer, they're off to a good start.
11:59 --> 12:00 [SPEAKER_00]: They're returning most of their core.
12:01 --> 12:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, visit, I'm not going to rehash
12:04 --> 12:20 [SPEAKER_00]: The way we were talking about the team last off season and where heads were last off season because it was a whole different ball game about a year ago for a lot of different reasons So we don't have to get into throughout the course of this segment, but if you're just talking about
12:20 --> 12:21 [SPEAKER_00]: getting Devon Williams.
12:21 --> 12:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, man, this is the guy we were banging the drum for.
12:25 --> 12:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Taking Kyle Tucker aside, this is the guy we were absolutely banging the drum for.
12:30 --> 12:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And TJ and I, I think it's fair to say, are not Mr. Pay every big name reliever.
12:34 --> 12:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I think for the most part, we usually shy away from this stuff.
12:38 --> 12:46 [SPEAKER_00]: But between Devon Williams getting way less money than anybody would have expected him to a year ago, being maybe the easiest bounce back candidate of all time,
12:47 --> 12:55 [SPEAKER_00]: and the fact that the Mariners want more high leverage bullpen arms and you're getting a chance at a guy who might be the best one in baseball when he's at his best.
12:55 --> 12:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what have done this?
12:56 --> 13:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I would have done this for the $15 million a year that the Metz are going to pay him with the $5 million being deferred and I would have brought him into Seattle.
13:05 --> 13:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Since it's the Metz, this question pops up for me.
13:07 --> 13:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Do we think the Metz grossly overpaid versus what the other market for a month?
13:14 --> 13:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like most people are gonna say yes, but again, if we're learning anything, similar to batting average.
13:19 --> 13:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we are learning that major league baseball teams in the year 2025 do not take earned run average seriously when handing out contracts.
13:29 --> 13:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't mean that as a bad thing.
13:31 --> 13:43 [SPEAKER_00]: ERA is not quite where batting averages, where it's all but a useless stat at this point, but it's getting to be fairly close
13:44 --> 13:45 [SPEAKER_00]: all encompassing.
13:45 --> 13:48 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of noise there that doesn't always tell the full story.
13:49 --> 13:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And when you look at the rest of Devon Williams profile, nothing else about his season last year's screen that he struggled.
13:55 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_00]: The only thing was he had a high ERA.
13:58 --> 14:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Everything else from everything under the hood, from the expected numbers to the savant bubbles, to the way he was striking out hitters in the back half of the year, says he was an elite reliever again.
14:08 --> 14:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think it's some bad contract.
14:12 --> 14:14 [SPEAKER_00]: He's also going to get out of the hitters park and
14:14 --> 14:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Yankee Stadium into a pitcher's park in city field if he had signed the industry, I'd only would have been in a pitcher's park and you'd still be paying him at a bargain of what one of the best relievers and baseball should make.
14:28 --> 14:37 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a chance the Mariners were only okay sounding Devon Williams if it was way below market rate as opposed to just below market rate.
14:37 --> 14:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Because the top market rate for top closers now is
14:43 --> 14:44 [SPEAKER_01]: $20 million a year.
14:45 --> 14:47 [SPEAKER_01]: That's about the, that's the Edwin Diaz mount.
14:47 --> 14:48 [SPEAKER_01]: It's $20 million a year.
14:49 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Devon Williams is going to get 75% of that.
14:53 --> 14:54 [SPEAKER_01]: There's also the factor of this.
14:55 --> 15:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Devon Williams goes to a perspective team in for agency and says, I'm pitching a ninth inning, right?
15:04 --> 15:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And the Mariners go, uh,
15:07 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so.
15:09 --> 15:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think Devin Williams cares.
15:11 --> 15:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I think he wanted his money and he's got some interest to play for a winning baseball team or a competitive baseball team.
15:16 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And the Metz will be that.
15:17 --> 15:26 [SPEAKER_00]: The Metz by all reports right after the William signing happened was they're still gonna be in on Edwin Diaz and they wanna bring him back.
15:26 --> 15:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And Devin Williams clearly must have some idea of that along with his agent and his camp because if you bring Edwin Diaz back, Devin Williams isn't closing and he's clearly alright with that.
15:35 --> 15:39 [SPEAKER_01]: then maybe he's okay with certain not being a closer for certain teams.
15:40 --> 15:42 [SPEAKER_00]: But, but who are those teams?
15:42 --> 15:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Is he going to say no, I'm not going to close for a team that was eight outs from the world series?
15:48 --> 15:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
15:49 --> 15:54 [SPEAKER_01]: At the end of the day, I think this as with almost everything comes down to money.
15:55 --> 15:59 [SPEAKER_01]: We're the Mariners going to give Devon Williams $50 million.
16:00 --> 16:06 [SPEAKER_01]: If I, before this even started, this whole offseason started, knowing Devin Williams market.
16:06 --> 16:12 [SPEAKER_01]: If you said the total amount you'd have to pay to Devin Williams is $50 million of the Mariners do it.
16:12 --> 16:13 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think you would have said?
16:14 --> 16:17 [SPEAKER_01]: If it's up to me, I'm sign it up in a heartbeat.
16:17 --> 16:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I would have done it too, what the Mariners have done that.
16:20 --> 16:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I did think there was a chance the number would be lower than that.
16:24 --> 16:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I did too.
16:26 --> 16:33 [SPEAKER_00]: But I still would have paid him that because it's half the money he should have gotten if his ERA wasn't balloon because he had to pitch in New York last year.
16:33 --> 16:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Devon Williams didn't get any say if he got to pitch in New York or not.
16:37 --> 16:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I bet you if you'd stayed in Milwaukee in 25, that doesn't happen and then he's making 100 billion bucks.
16:43 --> 16:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking at the idea of signing the guy who can very well be and often is the best reliever in baseball for 50% of the money that he should have gotten.
16:54 --> 17:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, not, it's, he's signed up for about 75%, 50, 50% total, but, you know, we're focusing on 26.
17:03 --> 17:05 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what the Mariners are sort of balancing the books on this.
17:05 --> 17:10 [SPEAKER_01]: 15 million versus 20 million is the number, not 50 versus a hundred.
17:10 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess, but if he had gotten a reliever type deal, had he had a good ERA last year, he's probably getting 500.
17:16 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
17:17 --> 17:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And the Mariners would have been out on that, because they wouldn't pay a reliever for five years.
17:22 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the idea here.
17:23 --> 17:25 [SPEAKER_00]: It is three years not five.
17:25 --> 17:27 [SPEAKER_00]: You are not tied down to this forever.
17:27 --> 17:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And you are paying a guy that, again, especially if you put him in Seattle,
17:32 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I just look at a team that had bullpen problems down the stretch.
17:36 --> 17:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Guys got taxed, you were one lever, Jarm Shore.
17:39 --> 17:43 [SPEAKER_00]: You got a chance to add the golden what, like the R-D-B-B-B-S-1 in the game.
17:44 --> 17:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And they don't do it.
17:45 --> 17:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not gonna kill them for it, but look, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it.
17:48 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm disappointed.
17:50 --> 17:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I wish they had done this.
17:53 --> 17:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I get the feeling though, they understand they need to add another leverage bullpen arm.
17:57 --> 18:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's how they treated the deadline and a big reason they lost game seven is because of bullpen, right?
18:04 --> 18:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Like they understand this.
18:07 --> 18:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Like they all seen this.
18:09 --> 18:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, certain guys could have been used in game seven, but yes.
18:13 --> 18:18 [SPEAKER_01]: They could have been, but the best way to hedge against that is to have more great relievers.
18:19 --> 18:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
18:20 --> 18:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Cause guess what?
18:21 --> 18:24 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're pointing to ran in that spot,
18:26 --> 18:27 [SPEAKER_01]: doesn't have to be on use.
18:28 --> 18:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, we've talked about the derandling.
18:31 --> 18:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's very private at this point that the Mariners were right on the doorstep of getting Joe on derand.
18:36 --> 18:41 [SPEAKER_00]: For everything we understand, I think they thought the deal was done on derand, and then the Philly swooped in last second.
18:42 --> 18:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So yes, they know they need bullpen help, but if you need bullpen help, and you want somebody at that caliber,
18:48 --> 18:51 [SPEAKER_00]: If definitely I'm just asking for three years, why aren't you doing that?
18:51 --> 18:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not costing you prospects.
18:54 --> 18:57 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not the five-year deal you probably thought you'd get a year ago.
18:57 --> 18:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And he's a great reliever.
18:59 --> 19:00 [SPEAKER_00]: This, this is why I'm hung up on this.
19:01 --> 19:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I was not sitting here last year pissed off that the Mariners didn't sign Jeff Hoffman.
19:06 --> 19:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we floated the idea out there saying could they do this.
19:09 --> 19:10 [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't think either of us were that sold on it.
19:11 --> 19:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It is the idea of potentially getting serious market value on a guy that should be making way more money.
19:18 --> 19:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, look at anything about Devon Williams season last year, not named his ERA.
19:23 --> 19:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And it says, yeah, this is a great reliever.
19:26 --> 19:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, do you think there's any chance he just didn't want to come to Seattle?
19:32 --> 19:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's a chance even though there's a lot of things to check out about Seattle again.
19:36 --> 19:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Seattle favoring pitchers teams now competitive.
19:41 --> 19:44 [SPEAKER_00]: They've developed so many bullpen arms over the years and pitchers in general.
19:46 --> 19:52 [SPEAKER_00]: But look man, if you want full transparency, we did do some digging on this and we checked in with some people.
19:52 --> 19:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And the consensus we got back is
19:56 --> 20:00 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not so sure, Devin Williams camp exactly loves the Mariners.
20:00 --> 20:02 [SPEAKER_00]: What does Devin Williams himself think about him?
20:02 --> 20:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but what we basically have the understanding of after doing some homework on this is, I don't think Devin Williams camp loves Jared Apoto.
20:12 --> 20:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think they love John Stanton, and that may have been what was part of a deal breaker if the Mariners were even at the table at all.
20:20 --> 20:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So this goes back to what we talked about right in terms of when the Mariners sign nailer and Jerry and Justin did all that good PR at the end of the season when the Mariners were eliminated and we talked about how much does this fix and we said it's great building block.
20:33 --> 20:38 [SPEAKER_00]: These are all great things that they're doing to help put the old narratives behind them.
20:39 --> 20:42 [SPEAKER_00]: But there's clearly still work to be done here across the game and that includes with agents.
20:43 --> 20:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to guess the reason that a lot, look, we can't know, for all we know
20:47 --> 20:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Like if there are agents out there that do not like the Mariners it could be things from five years ago It could be things from ten years ago.
20:54 --> 21:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Scott Boris by all accounts is still pissed at the Mariners from 25 years ago about a rod And that's why that relationship's broken, but I'm gonna assume What causes friction a lot of the time here is Dollar figures and the Mariners not often wanting to negotiate at top dollar with the money that these agents probably want for their clients and as a result
21:16 --> 21:20 [SPEAKER_00]: They could probably lead to them having some hostility, whether it's right or not.
21:21 --> 21:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And the way the Mariners, in case people are unaware of this, the way the Mariners, as they've talked about, usually go about contracts as they have a number, they like, and they don't move off of it.
21:33 --> 21:37 [SPEAKER_01]: So if there's like a bidding war, for example, if they said Devon Williams,
21:37 --> 21:40 [SPEAKER_01]: will do three years forty two million dollars.
21:40 --> 21:42 [SPEAKER_01]: That's where they're that's where their market.
21:42 --> 21:46 [SPEAKER_01]: They put their market for Devon Williams that and they stuck to their number.
21:47 --> 21:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And then the match is a bit above it like that.
21:50 --> 21:52 [SPEAKER_01]: That would require a change of philosophy.
21:52 --> 21:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
21:53 --> 21:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And whether I think the changing your philosophy should depend on the player.
21:58 --> 22:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Because the Mariners philosophy.
22:01 --> 22:08 [SPEAKER_01]: as work to this point, like they have a one-on-world series, but we are talking about a scene that just made it to game seven of the ALCS.
22:09 --> 22:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it would be impossible to make a case when you say this just does not work.
22:13 --> 22:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we were talking about a little bit last off season and then they showed us what they did this year, right?
22:18 --> 22:21 [SPEAKER_01]: But, sometimes you could be a little bit more flexible.
22:22 --> 22:25 [SPEAKER_01]: In the end though, we don't know totally how this went down.
22:25 --> 22:30 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners, if they're ever actually interested in him or not, but it is something to think about going forward.
22:30 --> 22:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And I will just say, I do think they understand their need for another high-level drum.
22:35 --> 22:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I think they're going to try and go out there and they're going to try and get one.
22:39 --> 22:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it doesn't have to be signing, by the way.
22:42 --> 22:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Does not have to be just signing an arm in free agency.
22:46 --> 22:48 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, not at all.
22:49 --> 22:53 [SPEAKER_00]: The info we're putting out there for you guys, it's just what we've heard, and there could be two sides to every story.
22:54 --> 23:16 [SPEAKER_00]: If the things we've heard are true, there could be things on the Mariners side that we don't know, and that there's, again, this is why there's two sides to every story, but that is just what we've heard from doing some homework on this about what Devin Williams can't narrow may not think of Seattle, which if the Mariners were interested at all, yeah, that's possible that was a deal breaker, because they probably didn't offer three years for $50 million.
23:16 --> 23:17 [SPEAKER_00]: That being part of it.
23:17 --> 23:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, you're right.
23:19 --> 23:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I think they know they need a bullpen arm, and it doesn't have to be deven Williams.
23:23 --> 23:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Could you go look at Emilio Pagon, who will probably cost a lot less?
23:27 --> 23:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe fits in your budget a little bit more, and has a chance to put up some really good production next year?
23:32 --> 23:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you could do that.
23:33 --> 23:36 [SPEAKER_00]: But got in a great year last year, and we haven't a reunion with the guy.
23:37 --> 23:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're talking about reunion.
23:38 --> 23:40 [SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about reunions all off season.
23:41 --> 23:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, I don't think Emilio Pagan is going to cost three years for $50 million.
23:45 --> 23:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So they can look at something like that and maybe the Mariners to be fair to present both sides of this to their case.
23:52 --> 24:14 [SPEAKER_00]: would rather put that money back into Jorge Polanco or another that and said we we can't go get polanco and deven Williams and they are trying to prioritize one of the other and to them polanco maybe more important than a bullpen arm who in fairness to them again doing this from both sides may see a guy on the other end of thirty who could be validals a reliever because relievers are fickle
24:14 --> 24:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And also, the Mariners could be looking at the remaining budget for what they want to spend this offseason and say, would we rather spend that on someone who's going to play in the field every day or reliever who's going to pitch two to three times a week for one.
24:29 --> 24:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, but the cost might be the same.
24:32 --> 24:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Would you rather give that $15 million to Jorge Polanco?
24:35 --> 24:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Or would you rather give that $15 million to Devin Williams?
24:38 --> 24:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Jorge Polanco in a given week would see.
24:40 --> 24:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Thirty played appearances.
24:42 --> 24:44 [SPEAKER_01]: He'd be in the field for X amount of innings.
24:45 --> 24:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And Devin Williams would throw two to three.
24:48 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I know.
24:49 --> 24:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, there's an argument to both sides.
24:51 --> 24:53 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you were asking me,
24:53 --> 24:58 [SPEAKER_00]: and asking you how we feel about this, we wish the Mariners would assign Devon Williams.
24:59 --> 25:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I understand there are arguments to both sides here.
25:02 --> 25:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure that's what the Mariners, if you were to ask them would say, is we have a budget.
25:08 --> 25:12 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not an unfair budget this offseason, thank goodness, but they do have to use it wisely.
25:13 --> 25:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe they feel like using it on a reliever on the other end of 30 is not what they personally want to do.
25:20 --> 25:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, if it was up to me, I would have done this because I truly think that changes their bullpen.
25:25 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you have Muñoz Devin Williams, Matt Brash, Gabe Spires, you're big four.
25:29 --> 25:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, good morning, good afternoon, good night, and out of fourth, out of fourth acronym to that.
25:37 --> 25:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And like, I'll just wrap it up with this.
25:40 --> 25:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Matthew Barry, who does obviously amazing fantasy football work and is done so for years and years and years, puts out his love hate less every year before the start of the season.
25:51 --> 25:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Inside that love hate less, he always has a rider diepick every single year.
25:55 --> 26:01 [SPEAKER_00]: A guy he is stamping, he's saying, this is who I believe in more than anybody else, especially at their value,
26:01 --> 26:05 [SPEAKER_00]: to put up big numbers this year and help your team potentially win your fantasy league.
26:06 --> 26:09 [SPEAKER_00]: This year, for example, it was Amaria in Hampton, who was playing really well before he got hurt.
26:11 --> 26:22 [SPEAKER_00]: If I was going to have a rider die pick in this free agent class, even more so than my guy Kyle Tucker, for the money he's getting, my rider die pick in this free agent class is Devon Williams.
26:22 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And Devon Williams, too, not just bounce back, but go back to being the Devon Williams that he was in Milwaukee and pretty much just
26:31 --> 26:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I, I'm stamping that.
26:32 --> 26:34 [SPEAKER_00]: That's my rider die of this free agent class.
26:34 --> 26:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It's Devon Williams.
26:36 --> 26:40 [SPEAKER_01]: We have a free agent profile to talk about, but before we get to that loud, do you want to read that?
26:40 --> 26:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
26:41 --> 26:43 [SPEAKER_00]: How about our friends over at Pagaches Pub 85?
26:43 --> 26:50 [SPEAKER_00]: You guys know that it's an awesome spot in Kirkland to go hang out with your friends if you want to watch some games like Seahawks who are playing unbelievable.
26:50 --> 26:52 [SPEAKER_00]: They just set up the Vikings again.
26:52 --> 26:55 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to go watch more Seahawk football, you can do so over there along with
26:55 --> 26:57 [SPEAKER_00]: college football, basketball, hockey.
26:58 --> 27:00 [SPEAKER_00]: There's also games in the place like pool and darts.
27:00 --> 27:07 [SPEAKER_00]: There's great food and if you go during happy hour, well you can check out their deals from 2 to 6 p.m. a Monday through Friday that feature $3 and $4 drinks.
27:07 --> 27:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, $3 and $4.
27:08 --> 27:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Those are great deals you guys.
27:10 --> 27:13 [SPEAKER_00]: You can catch all that at Pagaches Pub 85 in Kirkland.
27:14 --> 27:21 [SPEAKER_01]: The fridge and profile we have for all of you today is Japanese right handed picture Tetsuya in my.
27:22 --> 27:28 [SPEAKER_01]: This is quite the player to look at because it's not a clear need for the Mariners.
27:29 --> 27:41 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a very dynamic player, especially production-wise over in Japan, said to work through a lot of things, he's talked about his for agency in the public.
27:41 --> 27:46 [SPEAKER_01]: There's plenty of quotes to dive into, where do we even want to start with this?
27:47 --> 27:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I almost have this stuff broken into three parts.
27:51 --> 27:55 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the sections would have to be us getting into some dialogue first.
27:56 --> 28:00 [SPEAKER_00]: But I guess we can either start with the quotes he's put out there, or just profile the player.
28:01 --> 28:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have a preference?
28:03 --> 28:04 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll get you a player.
28:04 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I talked about why he's so good.
28:06 --> 28:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I mean, let me just start with this before we even dive into the profile.
28:11 --> 28:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm intrigued.
28:12 --> 28:15 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to reason to stick around for this profile, I am intrigued.
28:15 --> 28:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I was intrigued enough when he came over from Japan, but doing more homework for this podcast and as we've gotten ready for free agency during this hot stove season.
28:25 --> 28:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you can get me to buy in the tattoo, you know, you really can.
28:29 --> 28:35 [SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't quite Yamamoto level in Japan, but he was pretty darn good.
28:35 --> 28:41 [SPEAKER_01]: He had the lowest batting average against the lowest whip and the highest strike out rate in MPB.
28:41 --> 28:46 [SPEAKER_01]: So all the things you love pictures to do, don't allow base runners, strike a ton of guys out.
28:47 --> 28:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't allow a lot of hits.
28:48 --> 28:49 [SPEAKER_01]: That's exactly what he did.
28:49 --> 28:50 [SPEAKER_01]: He was really, really good out of it.
28:51 --> 28:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's gotten
28:52 --> 29:16 [SPEAKER_01]: plenty of a chance to sit and develop an MPB in it's not been even the cleanest path form because he had to debut in MPB at the top level right as he was drafted because his team, which I believe is the same team that had you say Kakuchi had to need for starting pictures and had to call him up as an 18 year old to start and play and he had a lot of stuff to work through there.
29:17 --> 29:38 [SPEAKER_01]: and even getting to the 2020 season where he was a 22-year-old, he had a 613 ERA, and guys like show Hayo Taniot, Roki Sasaki at 22-years-old, are these all-world phenoms that come over to the U.S. right away, because everyone knows they're the best.
29:38 --> 29:39 [SPEAKER_01]: They're great.
29:40 --> 29:42 [SPEAKER_01]: That wasn't the case for am I.
29:42 --> 29:51 [SPEAKER_01]: But then he really turned it around his next four seasons, see a nearer of 33 and 2020-21, and then every season after that, sub-25, over the course of an entire season.
29:52 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_01]: He has been, in summary, loyal, really freaking good, for a long time in Japan.
29:58 --> 30:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a lot about what he does and the way he attacks hitters.
30:03 --> 30:05 [SPEAKER_00]: That feels like it's right up the Mariners alley.
30:05 --> 30:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So the guy is a five-pitch mix, right?
30:08 --> 30:10 [SPEAKER_00]: of the five pitches, what are his two primaries?
30:11 --> 30:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Forcing fastball on a slider.
30:13 --> 30:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And it uses that over 80% of the time.
30:15 --> 30:16 [SPEAKER_00]: He is a fastball slider guy.
30:17 --> 30:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, also having a release angle and an arm slot, that's pretty low.
30:22 --> 30:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not quite Brian Wu released points, but he has a low arm slot, there's a bunch of fastballs, throws it hard, has a good slider, and can strike guys out.
30:32 --> 30:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't that feel like a Mariners profile, especially as a right hander?
30:37 --> 30:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, his height very much helps him because Brian's decently tall.
30:43 --> 30:49 [SPEAKER_01]: But Tatsu, Amaya's 511, he's Yoshinobi Yamamoto's height, except he gets a lot lower.
30:49 --> 30:52 [SPEAKER_01]: He's not like, like, Brian was you see when he pitches.
30:52 --> 30:56 [SPEAKER_01]: The way he explained it to us, he says he just likes to feel as athletic as possible.
30:56 --> 31:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And for Brian, feeling athletic means really sinking down as he's throwing.
31:01 --> 31:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, really sinking into his legs and letting his legs explode as he's throwing, right?
31:06 --> 31:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And that creates that low, really single.
31:09 --> 31:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And my still kind of stands up a decent bit when you watch his highlights, but when he throws with the combination of his actual height and where releases the ball he's almost short arming it a little bit like a really really low release point, but it is it's pretty silky and smooth the way he throws it it's it's repeatable and as he's learned he's been able to throw a ton of strikes with that release point.
31:35 --> 31:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you saw this because I was looking at front of the channel Jolly Olive's breakdown on am I.
31:41 --> 31:47 [SPEAKER_01]: When he started, he was trying to throw like you garbage and it was not working out for him.
31:47 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_01]: He would stand up straight as a board.
31:51 --> 31:57 [SPEAKER_01]: As if you can like picture you'd harvest in your mind, trying to mimic that and it was not working.
31:57 --> 31:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And it just didn't feel right.
31:59 --> 32:01 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why every pitcher needs to be unique.
32:02 --> 32:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Like they need to be themselves.
32:03 --> 32:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And a my, it took him a little bit to find himself.
32:06 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And it has created a dynamic pitching profile.
32:09 --> 32:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And he said, my fastball, best pitch.
32:13 --> 32:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Where do I like to throw it?
32:14 --> 32:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Top of the strike zone.
32:15 --> 32:18 [SPEAKER_01]: That's where I get guys out because of my release angle.
32:19 --> 32:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll say it again.
32:20 --> 32:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't that sound like a Mariners arm?
32:24 --> 32:24 [SPEAKER_00]: It does.
32:24 --> 32:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So low slot, the high fastball throws it up in the zone and misses bats.
32:29 --> 32:35 [SPEAKER_00]: By the way, that's his fastball, but then you get to his slider and you speak about friends of the channel.
32:35 --> 32:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So I was watching Lance Bross Dowski talk about this who we've had on the podcast before who does great pitching breakdowns on his YouTube channel across social media and he'll be networked, Mark, he's everywhere.
32:47 --> 32:50 [SPEAKER_00]: He might slide her basically as backwards.
32:50 --> 32:55 [SPEAKER_00]: You'll almost never see this, but his slider is unique in the sense that it runs gloveside.
32:56 --> 32:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So think about any slider, right?
32:57 --> 32:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Think about your favorite mariners slider.
32:59 --> 33:00 [SPEAKER_00]: We can use MapRash.
33:00 --> 33:07 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're watching MapRash on TV and his absolute wifable slider, you see it sweep all the way from right to left.
33:08 --> 33:10 [SPEAKER_00]: You see it, you know, go away from right-handed hitters.
33:11 --> 33:16 [SPEAKER_00]: He might slider goes in to right-handed hitters.
33:16 --> 33:19 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's like a backward slider.
33:19 --> 33:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Try your savage does something similar.
33:21 --> 33:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Where you savage a slider also moves glove side too.
33:24 --> 33:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Eminor.
33:25 --> 33:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
33:26 --> 33:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, arms side, yeah.
33:28 --> 33:29 [SPEAKER_00]: You savage a slider moves arm side too.
33:30 --> 33:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's, you don't see it every day, but that's what am I, slider moves like.
33:34 --> 33:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's, it's just like, it's just very, very unique and it's clearly worked.
33:41 --> 33:46 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's how he gets his slider to really have some effect.
33:46 --> 33:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he doesn't throw it that much, but yes.
33:50 --> 33:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but the the fastball sliders, the the primary pitches.
33:54 --> 34:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And one of the things he's been very transparent about of why he's been successful is is that fastball.
34:00 --> 34:04 [SPEAKER_01]: If we want to sort of transition this in the quotes here because I'm talking about what he has said.
34:04 --> 34:06 [SPEAKER_01]: He's also said that.
34:07 --> 34:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Part of the reason he's coming over to Major League Baseball, speaking of how he attacks hitters, is because hitters have given up on trying to do damage against him, because he considers himself a power pitcher, and all they're trying to do is foul pitchers off and hit singles, because his stuff is just so much better than everyone else is.
34:28 --> 34:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So it says, he's saying, I really want a power versus power match up.
34:33 --> 34:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I really want it because these guys in Japan are not giving it to me anymore.
34:39 --> 34:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Dude, not trying hard enough.
34:41 --> 34:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Does that not sound like a new age nerd?
34:44 --> 34:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Like fuck pitching the contact.
34:46 --> 34:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you want to strike guys out.
34:48 --> 34:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he just sounds bored.
34:50 --> 34:51 [SPEAKER_01]: There's what he sounds like.
34:51 --> 34:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
34:52 --> 34:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
34:53 --> 34:57 [SPEAKER_01]: He also says he just doesn't feel like it's as much of a competition.
34:57 --> 35:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, it's not, N-P-B while you'll find some superstars, obviously.
35:03 --> 35:10 [SPEAKER_00]: The overall competition is about triple A level, which, again, speaking about E-My, and him being a power pitcher.
35:10 --> 35:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you saw this, but just to quickly get back to his fastball for a second, which does tie into this conversation of him being a power pitcher.
35:18 --> 35:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you see who it got comp to in some ways?
35:21 --> 35:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Fastball?
35:22 --> 35:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:23 --> 35:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Joe Ryan.
35:24 --> 35:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Joe Ryan and maybe some of you were sitting here listening to this saying all right Joe Ryan I mean he's a good pitcher But should I really bad and I when I hear it's fastball compared to Joe Ryan yeah, you should because Joe Ryan's forcing fastball
35:39 --> 35:41 [SPEAKER_00]: This is not hyperbole.
35:41 --> 35:42 [SPEAKER_00]: This is not a hot take.
35:42 --> 35:43 [SPEAKER_00]: This is based off the numbers.
35:44 --> 35:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Joe Ryan's forcing fastball is one of the best ones in major league baseball.
35:49 --> 35:52 [SPEAKER_01]: It might be one of the only ones that are better than Brian loose.
35:52 --> 35:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:53 --> 36:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Joe Ryan, I believe, was one of only four pitchers this past year that generated 100 strikeouts on the forcing fastball.
36:01 --> 36:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're getting calm so you're fastballed at Joe Ryan, the English non-based ball nerd terms of that is that's who you might as forcing fastball is really damn good.
36:11 --> 36:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Really good.
36:12 --> 36:17 [SPEAKER_00]: If you hear a calm to Joe Ryan for your fastball, get hyped because you're doing something right.
36:18 --> 36:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm loving all this all that the breakdown of like who he is as a pitcher and since he evolved, I feel like there's a chance that it ends up differently than the examples I'm going to give next.
36:30 --> 36:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Would you care to know who's workload and results he matches up to coming over?
36:37 --> 36:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you're, I think I know what you're about to say here, because we might have been reading the same article, but go ahead.
36:42 --> 36:43 [SPEAKER_01]: You say Kukuchi.
36:45 --> 36:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so this is something different.
36:46 --> 36:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
36:47 --> 36:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, or Shota, Emanaga.
36:49 --> 36:56 [SPEAKER_01]: But both of those guys have come over and they've been solid big league pitchers, perhaps great at times.
36:56 --> 37:03 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners remember their three years with Yusekakuchi very clearly of how that worked out with him.
37:04 --> 37:07 [SPEAKER_01]: There are different personalities of how things work out.
37:08 --> 37:08 [SPEAKER_01]: But...
37:09 --> 37:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I just thought I would note that the fact that the last Japanese starter of the Mariners signed and put into the rotation and paid a decent amount of money to it did not end well and it clearly didn't feel like it fit at all.
37:23 --> 37:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it maybe amized built differently to handle it, but that's just a fact.
37:30 --> 37:38 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a little early to say, but if you're going to base it off early quotes and
37:39 --> 37:41 [SPEAKER_00]: feel like he is better equipped to handle it.
37:42 --> 37:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Look, everything we heard about you say Kukuchi.
37:45 --> 37:48 [SPEAKER_00]: For a lack of a better term, he was a little soft.
37:48 --> 37:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Like when he was a mariner, he was kind of soft.
37:51 --> 37:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Tatsuya, I mean, this guy sounds like a bulldog with some of the quotes he puts out.
37:57 --> 37:59 [SPEAKER_00]: It's too easy over an NPB.
37:59 --> 38:00 [SPEAKER_00]: He's not being challenged enough.
38:00 --> 38:02 [SPEAKER_00]: He is eager to strike more guys out.
38:03 --> 38:07 [SPEAKER_00]: You want to get into some more, if you want to get into some more of the quotes he's put out there.
38:08 --> 38:10 [SPEAKER_00]: What of a lot of these Japanese players done?
38:10 --> 38:13 [SPEAKER_00]: They've gone and joined the Dodgers because it's close to home.
38:14 --> 38:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Dodgers have a huge fan base.
38:16 --> 38:17 [SPEAKER_00]: They're the best organization in baseball.
38:17 --> 38:18 [SPEAKER_00]: They're winning a ton.
38:19 --> 38:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Ted Sui and Maya basically said screw that.
38:22 --> 38:24 [SPEAKER_00]: He said, I want to go somewhere where I can beat the Dodgers.
38:24 --> 38:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not joining the Dodgers.
38:26 --> 38:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to go beat the Dodgers.
38:28 --> 38:31 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the best pitch ever for him to come to the Mariners.
38:32 --> 38:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, again, I feel like you don't hear a lot of these Japanese arms, especially this early on before they've even been established.
38:40 --> 38:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Be so forward with some of their quotes and some of the things I'll put out out into the public.
38:47 --> 38:51 [SPEAKER_00]: But he might, this guy, this guy fires me up, he sounds like a bulldog and he's really good.
38:53 --> 38:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And the the biggest, um,
38:57 --> 39:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm, let me restart my sentence here.
39:02 --> 39:13 [SPEAKER_01]: The, I think, so he said specifically that facing Shoheotani would be the number one thing he wants, which it does tell you everything, right?
39:13 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it tells you, not only do I want to beat the Dodgers, but I specifically want to beat Shoheotani.
39:18 --> 39:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's the kind of competitive energy you want, guy who's willing to step up to the moment there.
39:22 --> 39:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that, that is fantastic.
39:24 --> 39:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I also think it's a big positive here too, with all of this coming out of him saying, you know, I want to beat the Dodgers.
39:30 --> 39:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Who would you say?
39:32 --> 39:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, what would be the number one team that if a player said I want to beat the Dodgers, that they would go to in their lead.
39:39 --> 39:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, just think of it in a regular season sense.
39:43 --> 39:47 [SPEAKER_01]: You could argue too, but these days I'd say the
39:47 --> 39:59 [SPEAKER_01]: These days it's the pod rays I would personally say based off of how much money they have to spend it would be the same for Cisco giants because the pod rays are not going to give out any hundred million dollar contracts this off season.
40:00 --> 40:13 [SPEAKER_00]: No, they're cutting back on payroll and in terms of the giants they do spend and they've spent on a domith, they've spent on Chapman, they've spent on Junghu Lee, they've spent on devours and paying his contract, they spend money, but
40:14 --> 40:15 [SPEAKER_00]: to throw it back to you.
40:15 --> 40:25 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a pretty note where the quote that came out this week from the giant's media folks and Andrew Bagherley who said, they're not in it.
40:26 --> 40:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So they don't buster posi does not want to spend top dollar on pitching.
40:30 --> 40:35 [SPEAKER_00]: They are more inclined this offseason to look at shorter term deals to upgrade their roster.
40:35 --> 40:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So they said, well, that doesn't really involve tattoo yet, you might.
40:39 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is where you get into pretty interesting waters, because you try to think about where his suitors would be, right?
40:46 --> 40:48 [SPEAKER_00]: There were three teams that I thought about.
40:49 --> 40:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Padres, we just talked about, they're not gonna be getting out any big contracts.
40:53 --> 40:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Giants?
40:54 --> 40:56 [SPEAKER_00]: both the West Coast teams, both are in that division.
40:56 --> 40:58 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to beat the Dodgers, it makes sense.
40:59 --> 41:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Giants sound like they're not in it.
41:00 --> 41:02 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not going to offer a big contract.
41:02 --> 41:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the other team for a while, when the offseason started, that would have made a lot of sense, was the team that the Dodgers went up against and beat in the World Series, which was the Blue Jays, who were clearly looking to upgrade their rotation.
41:13 --> 41:16 [SPEAKER_00]: But now we sit here and in the last week,
41:16 --> 41:24 [SPEAKER_00]: They have the blue jays of signed delincees and as of recording here on twos they did just signed Cody Ponds from Korea who's also expected to pitch in their rotation.
41:25 --> 41:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So they seem like they're out on e-mye.
41:27 --> 41:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Where's he going at this point?
41:30 --> 41:34 [SPEAKER_01]: The suitors I would say the number one suitor right now is the meds.
41:36 --> 41:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, money to spend and they have almost nobody in their rotation.
41:41 --> 41:42 [SPEAKER_00]: But let's get into this, too.
41:42 --> 41:45 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going down the list of Tetsuya Emi quotes.
41:46 --> 41:52 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the other things that he said, and maybe not every single one of these things will come true, but we are laying everything out here for people.
41:53 --> 42:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Tetsuya Emi said that he prefers to not pitch for a team that already has a Japanese presence, that already has current Japanese players on their team.
42:02 --> 42:05 [SPEAKER_00]: The Mets have a current Japanese player in their rotation and code I sang in them.
42:05 --> 42:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And that would also rule out the Chicago Cubs.
42:12 --> 42:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, man.
42:13 --> 42:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, they're also ruled out the L.A. Angels.
42:18 --> 42:21 [SPEAKER_00]: right, another West Coast team.
42:21 --> 42:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, man, like you go down these checkpoints, paired with the fact that it was reported this week as well by Jeff Passen and a few others that Tatsuya Emy is expected to sign before the end of the winter meeting.
42:34 --> 42:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's in a week, this posting, or sorry, Tatsuya Emy has been posted, obviously, and that window opened where he has 45 days to sign with a team.
42:44 --> 42:49 [SPEAKER_00]: The reports are they think he's going to sign by the end of the winner meetings with somebody.
42:50 --> 42:53 [SPEAKER_00]: But there's no leaks out there at all right now for who he could sign with.
42:54 --> 43:02 [SPEAKER_00]: If it's not the Padres, if it's not the Dodgers, if it's not the giants, if it's not the blue jays, if it's not the mette, if it's not the cubs, if it's not the angels.
43:03 --> 43:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And he presumably wants to win.
43:05 --> 43:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Where could he be going?
43:09 --> 43:10 [SPEAKER_00]: that's a question.
43:11 --> 43:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I see a door open here for the Mariners and like I said at the start of this segment, I am intrigued.
43:16 --> 43:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I am I am very very in like, I want to use a different word, but I can very much talk myself into Tatsuya, you know, how would Tatsuya and my fit on the Mariners if they decided he was the one they wanted.
43:30 --> 43:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Like they were going to sit there and they're going to pony up the money.
43:32 --> 43:34 [SPEAKER_01]: How are they going to make this happen?
43:34 --> 43:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so that gets to the third branch of this conversation, which I was obviously saving.
43:38 --> 43:40 [SPEAKER_00]: What happens if you sign them, right?
43:42 --> 43:47 [SPEAKER_00]: My first question here is, do you lose all leverage and a potential of least Cassio trade if you sign them?
43:48 --> 43:49 [SPEAKER_00]: And do the mayor is care about that.
43:49 --> 43:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Do the mayor is care about that stuff?
43:50 --> 43:51 [SPEAKER_01]: No, they don't.
43:53 --> 43:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Once they're willing to shell out that kind of money for Tetsu, am I?
43:56 --> 44:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Sending a prospect along to clear money for least Cassio, recognizing your sacrificing some future value whether it be
44:06 --> 44:12 [SPEAKER_01]: whether it be the prospect or the aging on Tetsu amized contract to win this year.
44:12 --> 44:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, OK, at this point, that's just what you're going to have to do.
44:16 --> 44:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you got a sacrifice to win.
44:20 --> 44:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So answer is.
44:22 --> 44:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it hurts your leverage in a Castillo trade, but no, the Mariners don't care.
44:25 --> 44:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say that checks out.
44:27 --> 44:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Correct.
44:28 --> 44:31 [SPEAKER_01]: What if the Mariners aren't trading Luis Castillo?
44:31 --> 44:34 [SPEAKER_01]: What if they think about this for a different strategy?
44:34 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Because the idea with Sonning Tetsuya Amaya's that you think he would upgrade your rotation by adding him better than the current five you already have.
44:44 --> 44:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Luis Castillo is the obvious one because he's the one who makes the most money and that's the money that you would
44:51 --> 44:53 [SPEAKER_01]: probably feel you need to clear to sign him.
44:53 --> 45:07 [SPEAKER_01]: But what if the Mariners decide, we will rather add more salary and trade from one of our core four homegrown starters instead, one of those guys that we don't think we can sign to an extension instead.
45:07 --> 45:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Because Tatsuya Mai will be signed to a five to six year contract worth probably 120 to $150 million.
45:15 --> 45:20 [SPEAKER_01]: If you put that same contract in front of George Kirby,
45:21 --> 45:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Once you rather have a my, if you're the Mariners on this team at the same age for the same amount.
45:29 --> 45:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So then this puzzle piece starts moving doesn't hit.
45:31 --> 45:34 [SPEAKER_00]: This is where the pieces really start to rotate.
45:35 --> 45:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Because if the answer that's yes, and we have talked about it always is felt like Kirby is the least likely the bunch to sign an extension.
45:42 --> 45:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this the time period?
45:45 --> 45:53 [SPEAKER_00]: where you are willing to think about trading him away because if in my aside, not only is he pitching in your rotation for a long time, but he's probably pitching close to the top of it.
45:54 --> 45:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And with that, you'd still need bats.
45:56 --> 46:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you trade away three years of George Kirby for a bat?
46:02 --> 46:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Could it be Jared Durant?
46:03 --> 46:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Could it be Katel Marté?
46:05 --> 46:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this where the pieces start to move?
46:08 --> 46:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say there is a conversation that has to be had there.
46:10 --> 46:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
46:11 --> 46:13 [SPEAKER_01]: your payroll would be swollen.
46:13 --> 46:19 [SPEAKER_01]: This would take a big step forward from ownership and the top executives of the Mariners to make this happen.
46:19 --> 46:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Because in this scenario, you're not trading way Luis Castillo, you're adding Tetsuya Amai and you're going to be adding quality, hopefully star major league players in a trade that you would get back for one of your starters, whether be George Kirby or Bryce Miller or somebody else that you decide to trade.
46:36 --> 46:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Like in this hypothetical,
46:37 --> 46:43 [SPEAKER_01]: you're trading Kirby away and you're getting jerryndoran back and you're adding tetsuya amy to this rotation.
46:44 --> 46:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Or I feel like that team is better overall than a team where you trade Luis Castillo away for pretty much nothing and just swap him and amy in the rotation.
46:54 --> 46:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Because if there's one thing the Mariners do still need, they do still need another bat.
46:59 --> 47:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of people think it's going to be Jorge Polanco in the infield, but what if it's jaren derrain in the outfield?
47:04 --> 47:19 [SPEAKER_01]: What if he's that extra bat you get to lengthen this lineup and give you a much more dynamic presence in your lineup, much more like Julio, as much as we night like Nailer, he's not a burner like jaren derrain us, right?
47:20 --> 47:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Look, and we talked about this because we've talked about Daran already this off season.
47:24 --> 47:33 [SPEAKER_00]: The Mariners are going to have to do their homework on him for a lot of different reasons, but if you're just talking about the baseball player, yeah, yes, that makes your team better.
47:33 --> 47:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course it does, and again with Kirby.
47:36 --> 47:38 [SPEAKER_00]: We're still waiting on that big jump.
47:39 --> 47:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's fair to question at this point.
47:42 --> 47:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it going to come, especially when he's in Seattle?
47:45 --> 47:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not to say no.
47:46 --> 47:47 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not to say it can't happen.
47:47 --> 47:49 [SPEAKER_00]: But we've seen Logan take the jump.
47:49 --> 47:50 [SPEAKER_00]: We've seen Wu take the jump.
47:50 --> 47:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We've seen these jumps be made.
47:52 --> 47:54 [SPEAKER_00]: He still haven't really seen it with Kirby.
47:54 --> 47:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's not to say he's been a bad pitcher.
47:57 --> 47:59 [SPEAKER_00]: But he has not taken the big jump like some others.
47:59 --> 48:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Where he still doesn't really have the out pitch.
48:01 --> 48:06 [SPEAKER_00]: He still can get bombed a lot of the time when he faces the wrong team and is too out over the plate.
48:06 --> 48:10 [SPEAKER_00]: We saw what happened within the third time through the order this year when he really struggled.
48:11 --> 48:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Is there enough data building up here for the Mariners, where especially if they sign email, they would consider trading curvy.
48:17 --> 48:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it has to be a conversation.
48:19 --> 48:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I do because that potentially upgrades your rotation and your offense.
48:24 --> 48:27 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not a certainty, but it's certainly the
48:28 --> 48:35 [SPEAKER_01]: The scenario in which I do that is if you are 100% confident, Tatsuya Mai would be one of the three best pictures in your rotation.
48:37 --> 48:44 [SPEAKER_01]: If he's not, if you have him graded similarly to 2026 Luis Castillo in terms of production, then this is not worth it.
48:45 --> 48:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Because then you'd be paying a bloated contract for whatever it already thinks Luis Castillo's contract is bloated at least he's proven it in MLB.
48:53 --> 48:55 [SPEAKER_01]: There is always a chance with a guy coming over from a different league.
48:56 --> 48:57 [SPEAKER_01]: They just not that good.
48:58 --> 49:06 [SPEAKER_01]: You say Kukuchi, well, we'll bring back up with the similar numbers to Tetsuya Mai and Japan came over for the first year at the Mariners and stuck.
49:08 --> 49:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the expectation here for me is you obviously do not have to be Yoshinobi Yamamoto.
49:14 --> 49:15 [SPEAKER_00]: That is not what anybody's expecting.
49:16 --> 49:19 [SPEAKER_00]: He's not getting the money that would have those expectations be set.
49:19 --> 49:25 [SPEAKER_00]: But you do have to be better than showed at Emanaga and Kodai Sangha and that group.
49:25 --> 49:34 [SPEAKER_00]: You have got to be somewhere in between those guys because if you are, you're a number or two starter in the big leagues and that is a huge, huge boost to an already really good Mariners rotation.
49:34 --> 49:36 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's the bar to clear.
49:36 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_00]: You got to clear Shota, you've got to clear Kodai Sangha, that group.
49:41 --> 49:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that fair?
49:42 --> 49:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
49:43 --> 49:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes you do.
49:44 --> 49:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Now here's the one other route I mapped out here for what the Mariners could do.
49:49 --> 49:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Could you trade Louise Castillo if you sign EMI?
49:52 --> 49:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And that opens up the spot in your rotation.
49:55 --> 49:55 [SPEAKER_00]: It clears some money.
49:56 --> 49:58 [SPEAKER_00]: But then you'd still need a bat, right?
49:59 --> 50:02 [SPEAKER_00]: If you sign EMI, you are expecting to have them for the next five to seven years.
50:04 --> 50:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how all your prospects are going to get up to the big leagues at that point with that many controllable starters under contract.
50:11 --> 50:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So at that point,
50:12 --> 50:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Couldn't you think about going and trading one of your legit pitching prospects for a real bat?
50:17 --> 50:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Couldn't you go that route to?
50:19 --> 50:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah or two?
50:20 --> 50:20 [SPEAKER_00]: We're exactly.
50:21 --> 50:34 [SPEAKER_00]: So then, I mean, if you're really thinking about 2026, even if you don't think Kirby long term signs is extension, then your rotation if you trade Castillo becomes Logan, Wu, Emy, Kirby, Bryce Miller, which good lord.
50:35 --> 50:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And then if you really want to go get a legit bat or two, you could trade away some of your pitching
50:42 --> 50:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And this scenario, I really hope someone values them as prospects, because if there's one thing we learned last off season, teams didn't give two shits about prospects.
50:54 --> 50:58 [SPEAKER_01]: There were no really prospect for Big League or off-season tricks.
50:59 --> 51:00 [SPEAKER_01]: That was not a thing.
51:00 --> 51:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I would have to think, well, they're in an interesting spot because they've been adding this winner.
51:07 --> 51:12 [SPEAKER_00]: But don't you have to think the orals are at least intrigued by pitching prospects, especially the ones the mariners have.
51:14 --> 51:17 [SPEAKER_01]: And your goal would be to get cursed out or cows are.
51:19 --> 51:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the only thing with them is both of them had bad years last year.
51:21 --> 51:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's not costing you likely one of the mariners aren't.
51:25 --> 51:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's probably not a significant upgrade in your lineup.
51:28 --> 51:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I'm more thinking about.
51:31 --> 51:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe the Jordan Westburg route, although that makes the Cold Emerson project a little tougher.
51:36 --> 51:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe Baltimore is a bad team for this.
51:38 --> 51:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And they've never been able to work out a deal before.
51:40 --> 51:45 [SPEAKER_00]: But there's got to be teams out there that are looking toward prospects to some extent.
51:45 --> 51:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, go back to the Diamondbacks.
51:47 --> 51:50 [SPEAKER_00]: You want to go get serious about Katel Marte again.
51:50 --> 51:52 [SPEAKER_00]: The Diamondbacks certainly want pitching prospects.
51:53 --> 51:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So Kate and Joranjolo.
51:55 --> 51:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Something like that.
51:56 --> 51:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah guys, closest to the big leagues.
51:58 --> 52:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And when you think the Diamondbacks are certainly picking up the phone on that, for Catelle, you would think I would like to see it to believe it.
52:07 --> 52:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Because our pitch to Catelle originally was you sending big leagueers over to them.
52:11 --> 52:12 [SPEAKER_01]: It's true.
52:13 --> 52:35 [SPEAKER_01]: it is very true and it is quite a drop off when you go from promised big leakers to oh sorry we don't have any big leakers left a trade but we do have prospects and do you like we have you know almost half the league makes the playoff nowadays playoff snow days we'd rather you send us big leakers because we think we have a chance and the time backs weren't that far away even after trading Josh Taylor and Gino last year right
52:36 --> 52:37 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see.
52:37 --> 52:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I would like to see that to fully buy in that the Mariners being able to upgrade with it just a true prospect trade this off season.
52:44 --> 52:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
52:45 --> 52:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's right.
52:47 --> 52:49 [SPEAKER_00]: All I know is this case is fascinating.
52:49 --> 52:51 [SPEAKER_00]: We've done a couple of bats now in these free agent previews.
52:51 --> 52:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about Durran.
52:52 --> 52:53 [SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about Boba Shet.
52:54 --> 52:57 [SPEAKER_00]: We said let's mix it up for our next profile.
52:57 --> 52:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about somebody pretty unique.
52:59 --> 53:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about the Mariners getting creative this off season.
53:01 --> 53:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Making this move would be doing that.
53:05 --> 53:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll tell you what, the more I talk about them, I think the more interest that I am.
53:09 --> 53:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I could very, very much buy into the idea.
53:13 --> 53:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd be very interested.
53:15 --> 53:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we've mapped out ways where this could be very successful.
53:18 --> 53:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I would be shocked, like legitimately shocked, if they did this.
53:23 --> 53:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, probably, it would be, it would be a big shock.
53:27 --> 53:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, like, I see the past notification, I go, oh fuck.
53:32 --> 53:34 [SPEAKER_00]: You might be screaming that in the hallway at the winter meetings.
53:34 --> 53:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Because again, I think he's going to sign in the next week.
53:37 --> 53:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope so.
53:38 --> 53:41 [SPEAKER_01]: He's got technically another month exactly from recording.
53:42 --> 53:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
53:42 --> 53:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it doesn't sound like he's going to take that.
53:45 --> 53:45 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
53:45 --> 53:48 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want the one downside with him, I guess we didn't talk about it a ton.
53:49 --> 53:51 [SPEAKER_00]: He does still have to clean up some command.
53:52 --> 53:55 [SPEAKER_00]: His command is not exactly perfect pinpoint command.
53:56 --> 54:00 [SPEAKER_00]: But the big thing I took away from doing all our Tetsuya email homework is
54:01 --> 54:02 [SPEAKER_00]: He's not a finished product yet.
54:02 --> 54:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I think what's exciting about Ham is for his good as he already is, there's room to grow there.
54:07 --> 54:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I think they think his delivery and extension can be a little bit better as he gets older, which a big league staff could certainly help with.
54:13 --> 54:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that his command can certainly get better, which can be improved in time and with a big league pitching staff.
54:20 --> 54:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So look, there's not no concerns with this guy.
54:24 --> 54:26 [SPEAKER_00]: But there's a lot to be excited about.
54:26 --> 54:29 [SPEAKER_01]: It has also gotten a lot better.
54:29 --> 54:32 [SPEAKER_01]: His walk rate in his worst year was 16%.
54:32 --> 54:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Now it's seven.
54:34 --> 54:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, oh, he's cleaned it up a ton.
54:36 --> 54:40 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you look on fan graphs, they greatest command out is somewhere between 45 and 50.
54:40 --> 54:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's not perfect.
54:42 --> 54:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, that doesn't mean it can't get better and he's gotten better every year, which is why again, I think it's exciting because it seems like there's room to grow here that he's not totally filled out as a product yet.
54:55 --> 54:55 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see.
54:56 --> 54:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess my only other concern with him is that he's not a big dude.
55:00 --> 55:07 [SPEAKER_01]: No, but you could say neither was Yamamoto, but Yamamoto also seems to be a very much one-of-a-kind.
55:09 --> 55:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I mean, Marcus Strowman wasn't a big dude.
55:11 --> 55:11 [SPEAKER_00]: He had a good career.
55:12 --> 55:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyone pay Marcus Strowman a hundred million?
55:16 --> 55:19 [SPEAKER_00]: What contract did he get in Chicago?
55:19 --> 55:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he got one real free agent deal.
55:22 --> 55:23 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a good question.
55:24 --> 55:25 [SPEAKER_00]: He got one real free agent deal.
55:25 --> 55:26 [SPEAKER_00]: What was it?
55:27 --> 55:54 [SPEAKER_00]: two years for uh... he signed a two-year deal with the Yankees no maybe that was it three for seventy one in chicago that's what i thought the cubs gave him some real money all right look but am i might get 120 million yeah i think fifty million i think some people think he's going to get a hundred and fifty million dollars because he's really good but again there's been small right handers over the years it's not on it's not
55:55 --> 55:57 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's not it's not the norm though.
55:58 --> 56:00 [SPEAKER_00]: No, but it's not an urban folktale either.
56:00 --> 56:01 [SPEAKER_00]: There's plenty of success stories.
56:03 --> 56:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Just not as many.
56:04 --> 56:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and Yamamoto is a unicorn as we saw the dude pitched a completely pitched on one day zero days rest.
56:13 --> 56:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the world series and does doesn't even lift he does handstands like and for some guys it works.
56:19 --> 56:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and javillan throws and yoga.
56:21 --> 56:22 [SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy.
56:23 --> 56:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, then you've got, then you've got show hey, just deadlifting thousands of pounds and hitting 500 nukes.
56:28 --> 56:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's a giant and then look at the Mariners rotation.
56:30 --> 56:31 [SPEAKER_01]: They're all enormous.
56:31 --> 56:32 [SPEAKER_01]: All of them.
56:32 --> 56:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Bryce Miller on TV doesn't look that big.
56:35 --> 56:37 [SPEAKER_01]: He's tall dude.
56:38 --> 56:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
56:38 --> 56:41 [SPEAKER_00]: He's tall, lengthy, lengthy gets down the mound.
56:42 --> 56:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Brian was not towering like Logan Gilbert, but, you know, he's pretty built.
56:47 --> 56:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
56:49 --> 56:49 [UNKNOWN]: So.
56:49 --> 57:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Emy would be he's he's my size he's essentially my size of any of you listening of met me in person that's Tetsu I'm I would longer here and he's and he's a little scrawny or I think His original listed weight was 154 I believe he's up to one seventy six which sounds more right He's a hundred fifty four pounds But I'll be honest I would be really concerned about giving him a hundred and fifty million dollars.
57:18 --> 57:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
57:19 --> 57:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
57:20 --> 57:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Look, that's like Tristan McKenzie level weight.
57:23 --> 57:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Tristan McKenzie is a pitcher for the garden, so by the way, got DFAD.
57:27 --> 57:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So, couple really good years though.
57:29 --> 57:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Couple really good years, yeah.
57:30 --> 57:32 [SPEAKER_01]: But could not keep it up.
57:32 --> 57:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe fit a little more, a little more umph behind.
57:35 --> 57:39 [SPEAKER_01]: There is a reason that teams have prototypical pictures they want.
57:39 --> 57:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, when you build a pitcher in a lab, it spits out Paul schemes, because it's what we know is the most sustainable.
57:46 --> 57:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
57:47 --> 57:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Because you have, there's a lot less wear and tear on certain parts of your body if you are balanced and strong and tall.
57:55 --> 57:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Regardless, I'm in on this.
57:58 --> 57:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I could very much buy in.
57:59 --> 58:01 [SPEAKER_01]: So give me, give me a yes or no right now.
58:02 --> 58:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Would you sign him?
58:05 --> 58:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes?
58:07 --> 58:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
58:07 --> 58:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Now.
58:08 --> 58:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead.
58:09 --> 58:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead.
58:10 --> 58:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say no.
58:12 --> 58:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
58:13 --> 58:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
58:13 --> 58:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Now.
58:14 --> 58:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the mariner's sign-hand, I think we're a consensus, probably not.
58:19 --> 58:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And my reasoning for this is because if they did sign him, they would not upgrade other parts of the roster.
58:25 --> 58:29 [SPEAKER_01]: If they did say they would upgrade other parts of the roster still, then I would do it.
58:29 --> 58:30 [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think they would.
58:30 --> 58:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Whoa, it would have to come through trade.
58:33 --> 58:36 [SPEAKER_01]: It would, but I'm thinking from a salary perspective.
58:37 --> 58:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we'll see.
58:38 --> 58:41 [SPEAKER_00]: It's still unclear what they're okay with spending the top season.
58:41 --> 58:47 [SPEAKER_00]: People have given it an estimate, but they haven't exactly said, and I like last year when they said $15 million.
58:48 --> 58:50 [SPEAKER_00]: This would not have been possible last off season.
58:51 --> 58:51 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
58:52 --> 58:55 [SPEAKER_00]: But again, this is why these are all fascinating conversations.
58:55 --> 58:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think we're gonna hear a lot more about you mine next week of the winter meeting.
58:58 --> 59:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So it felt right to do this one now.
59:02 --> 59:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So over the next few days, think about this.
59:06 --> 59:07 [SPEAKER_00]: way all the options.
59:08 --> 59:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Take a new account where we said, go read what other people said, and then drop it in the comments, or DM us, tell us, was you want me?
59:14 --> 59:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you interested in me?
59:16 --> 59:17 [SPEAKER_00]: What's your reasoning for against?
59:17 --> 59:18 [SPEAKER_00]: We'd love to hear.
59:18 --> 59:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So seriously, comments are right there on YouTube, just tell us.
59:21 --> 59:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Alright, I think that wraps up this edition of the Marine Lair pod cast.
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59:46 --> 59:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Let us know your thoughts on Tetsuya, EMI, with love to hear them.
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01:00:04 --> 01:00:05 [SPEAKER_00]: That's TJ, I'm Lyle.
01:00:05 --> 01:00:06 [SPEAKER_00]: It's always weird.
01:00:06 --> 01:00:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you guys for tuning in.
01:00:07 --> 01:00:08 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk to you soon.