Lyle and TJ debate whether 2025 was the greatest year in Seattle sports all-time (2:30). They then react to Kazuma Okamoto signing with the Blue Jays, and re-affirm their stance on not signing him (18:40). The two of them close out the show discussing what happens if the Mariners don't make another move (30:25).
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00:00 --> 00:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Over to episode number 346 of the Marine Layer podcast while the Mariners are still pondering their next move, we thought we would ask the question, is this the greatest Seattle sports year of all time?
00:11 --> 00:18 [SPEAKER_00]: There's also some discourse online in the Mariners world about Kazuma Okamoto signing with the Blue Jays that we have to address.
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01:02 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Lair podcast, part of the just baseball podcast network, recording here on Sunday evening January 4th, I'm just going to ask you the question, Lion, after what we've seen this weekend with still waiting for another Mariners move, but we saw an entire season of success and them finishing in there.
01:23 --> 01:25 [SPEAKER_00]: They're best finished in franchise history.
01:26 --> 01:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And what we saw at the Seahawks on Saturday night is this the best Seattle sports year of all time.
01:33 --> 01:35 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm gonna say no, because they didn't win.
01:35 --> 01:37 [SPEAKER_01]: The Seahawks have not yet won anything.
01:38 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_01]: My answer is 2013, because you know what else?
01:41 --> 01:44 [SPEAKER_01]: In addition to the Seahawks actually winning, they got Robbie that year.
01:44 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners got Robbie, which felt like a world series at the time.
01:48 --> 01:57 [SPEAKER_01]: We had watched a decade of such or shit baseball in every facet, farm system, big league product, like everything.
01:58 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_01]: When they signed Robbie, it felt like they won the world series.
02:03 --> 02:10 [SPEAKER_00]: that how do I even address this because I'm just I'm I'm a little confused on how I want to answer this question.
02:11 --> 02:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like this year is the right answer.
02:13 --> 02:20 [SPEAKER_00]: But there is also a comment left on the post that we posted here on Sunday morning where I asked the same question to the people about this being
02:20 --> 02:34 [SPEAKER_00]: the best sports year in Seattle sports history and what I'm using to reference that is the mayor is going to game seven of the ALCS and the seahawks on Saturday clenching the number one seed and setting a franchise record for regular season wins with 14.
02:35 --> 02:38 [SPEAKER_00]: That is the premise that I'm using to answer this question.
02:38 --> 02:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Under that I say yes.
02:40 --> 02:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Someone left us a comment and said, guys, there are no participation trophies when it comes to handing out best ever.
02:49 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_00]: totally fair, totally valid argument.
02:52 --> 02:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So that would make it.
02:53 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, you have to win a championship for the year to be regarded as the best ever in Seattle sports history.
03:01 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_00]: The problem is, Slaw, we don't have a lot of them to choose from.
03:07 --> 03:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Hence, why I say 2013 and getting Robin to know that year again, it's just icing on the cake.
03:15 --> 03:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
03:17 --> 03:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Just to hear out the options I wrote down, that's one of those years, 2013, C.O.C.
03:22 --> 03:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Super Bowl Robinson can know signing with the Mariners after we'll forget about that year.
03:26 --> 03:32 [SPEAKER_00]: The actual year of baseball that was played on the diamond, not one of the most memorable seasons of Mariners franchise history.
03:33 --> 03:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
03:33 --> 03:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Probably the opposite.
03:35 --> 03:36 [SPEAKER_00]: A trotty.
03:35 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It was, it wasn't a trashy.
03:37 --> 03:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So we have this year.
03:38 --> 03:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Husky's want to bowl game this year, though.
03:41 --> 03:43 [SPEAKER_00]: You'll probably say that's a participation trophy.
03:43 --> 03:44 [SPEAKER_00]: The LA bowl.
03:44 --> 03:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Totally fair.
03:46 --> 03:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Sounders won some cup this year.
03:49 --> 03:51 [SPEAKER_00]: They beat messy and something, right?
03:51 --> 03:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so not the supporters shield.
03:53 --> 03:53 [UNKNOWN]: Okay.
03:53 --> 03:54 [SPEAKER_00]: No, they didn't win.
03:55 --> 03:58 [SPEAKER_00]: The last MLS Cup for the sounders was in 2019.
03:59 --> 03:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
04:00 --> 04:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So I want to say they also won.
04:02 --> 04:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I think they also won in either 16 or 17.
04:05 --> 04:05 [SPEAKER_01]: 16.
04:05 --> 04:07 [SPEAKER_00]: 16, everyone.
04:07 --> 04:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So if they have, they have titles in 16 and 19.
04:10 --> 04:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I looked at the storm too.
04:11 --> 04:12 [SPEAKER_00]: The storm was what?
04:13 --> 04:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, four, 2004, 2010, 2012, 2020.
04:17 --> 04:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
04:19 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm pulled up.
04:20 --> 04:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I think those are the years.
04:21 --> 04:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you have like the Washington Husky's national championship in 1991 claimed not one claimed Yeah, and all those claim national titles back then before you had actual national championship games participation trophies now if you want to add in to 2025 You don't win in UW women soccer winning the national title.
04:41 --> 04:49 [SPEAKER_01]: You can add that if you want if you want to just add accomplishments in Seattle sports all into one, but that is that is college not pro so it depends on how you weigh that
04:51 --> 04:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it depends if the franchise is big enough.
04:52 --> 05:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I, when I'm thinking about this, something about like major sports franchises with big fan bases that everyone can collectively agree on because not everyone is going to use UW soccer as the example for making, making a case in Seattle sports history.
05:06 --> 05:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, there are cases for like the worst year in Seattle sports history.
05:09 --> 05:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I think O8 is that year for across the board, the Seahawks were awful.
05:15 --> 05:21 [SPEAKER_00]: The Mariners became, I think, the first team to lose 100 games and spend $100 million and the Sonic's left.
05:23 --> 05:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, was O8 the year that Seahawks drafted Aaron Curry?
05:26 --> 05:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it might have been.
05:29 --> 05:30 [SPEAKER_01]: That sounds right.
05:32 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_01]: think it was.
05:33 --> 05:34 [SPEAKER_01]: He was right around.
05:34 --> 05:34 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right, correct.
05:35 --> 05:36 [SPEAKER_00]: This is bad.
05:36 --> 05:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It was the 0809 was really, really, really bad.
05:39 --> 05:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So that would be my nomination for the worst.
05:41 --> 05:45 [SPEAKER_00]: The other two years, I thought of when I'm thing of best years ever.
05:46 --> 05:49 [SPEAKER_00]: In 2000, the Mariners advance to the ALCS.
05:49 --> 05:51 [SPEAKER_00]: They made it to Game 6 as a wildcard.
05:52 --> 05:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Didn't win the West, but made it until this past year as far as they ever had in the baseball playoffs.
05:59 --> 06:01 [SPEAKER_00]: That was not a memorable C-Hox here.
06:01 --> 06:26 [SPEAKER_00]: uh... those not a memorable sonics here but the husky's one eleven and one one the rose bull that year do you want to count the rose bull as a participation trophy because they didn't win the national championship they went eleven and one i don't know if you will want you and i'd go down the whole college football rabbit hole because in thirty seconds without again totally deterring the conversation
06:26 --> 06:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I used to be this die-hard college football fan, and over the last three years, it's really lost me.
06:33 --> 06:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe more two years, but I just think the whole sport kind of sucks at this point, and I can't have the same buy-and-to-it that I once did.
06:40 --> 06:47 [SPEAKER_01]: That being said, I've also thought for a long time that both seasons dumb and everything that's not competing for national titles, essentially a participation trophy.
06:47 --> 06:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm sure I'm gonna piss off some UW fans here, but like all these rose bowls back then,
06:53 --> 06:54 [SPEAKER_01]: What do they really mean?
06:54 --> 07:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like having two teams in the ALCS and the LLCS essentially compete for a third-place trophy.
07:02 --> 07:07 [SPEAKER_00]: In the Husky's defense, they did do everything they were pretty much supposed to accept when the one game they lost.
07:08 --> 07:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I know, and it does suck back then, there wasn't an actual playoff field, and that does play into it.
07:12 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But they didn't win at all.
07:16 --> 07:23 [SPEAKER_00]: The other years famously 1995, where you might have heard there was a big double hit, in 1995, do you remember that?
07:24 --> 07:47 [SPEAKER_01]: We've kind of sworn on this podcast to not spend time talking about 1995 because it's been shoved down our throats for our whole life, for our whole lives in a year where you lost in six games in the semifinals, that's like yeah, cool, like we're just not going to spend a lot of time on it, but yes, for the topic of this conversation where you're trying to measure out best Seattle sports years ever, that is one, and I know what you're about to say.
07:47 --> 07:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I can say it for you.
07:48 --> 07:51 [SPEAKER_01]: The sonx played Michael Jordan the bulls in the NBA finals
07:52 --> 07:59 [SPEAKER_00]: bit of a technicality though, because it was the 95.96 season, but we can count it as 95.
07:59 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So the season started in 95.
08:01 --> 08:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I guess that would be more 96.
08:03 --> 08:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Because that's when in the NBA, the majority of the season is played in the win or spring, summer months, rather than, you know, you get like October, November, December.
08:14 --> 08:20 [SPEAKER_00]: To be fair, the Mariners had a chance to make 1996, one of the greatest years in Seattle
08:20 --> 08:40 [SPEAKER_01]: but they couldn't put together a freaking pitching staff so they left one of the greatest offences of all time out to dry I mean you had again you had the greatest short stop of all time the greatest center field or arguably of all time I mean that will you well yeah that will you may sky was pretty good too but are you a great center what
08:40 --> 08:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Trout.
08:41 --> 08:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, him too.
08:42 --> 08:53 [SPEAKER_01]: One of the greatest center fielders ever, maybe the greatest short stop ever, one of the greatest starting pitchers ever, and one of the two greatest DHS ever, that's up for debate of who's number one.
08:53 --> 08:55 [SPEAKER_01]: But those four combined, misleplayoffs.
08:56 --> 08:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And they all had insane seasons two.
08:58 --> 09:00 [SPEAKER_00]: That was the year A-Rod was runner up in MVP.
09:01 --> 09:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Junior was fourth in MVP.
09:04 --> 09:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
09:04 --> 09:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I remember that right.
09:06 --> 09:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that was a, yeah, yeah, really, really good.
09:10 --> 09:11 [SPEAKER_00]: They only won 85 games though.
09:11 --> 09:19 [SPEAKER_00]: They had one like 90, then you could make that case, okay, Sonic's NBA finals lost a Jordan respectable, because he never lost him a finals.
09:20 --> 09:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Mariners make a deep playoff run.
09:24 --> 09:26 [SPEAKER_00]: more understandable.
09:26 --> 09:33 [SPEAKER_00]: But if we're going to go by what you started this off with, got to win a championship, then there's only really two seasons that you can count.
09:34 --> 09:36 [SPEAKER_00]: It's 2013 or 1979.
09:36 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I really hope we're not counting the Mariners in 1979 toward this list.
09:42 --> 09:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's not even go through that team.
09:46 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not and they had nothing to do with why that year was so good.
09:49 --> 09:50 [SPEAKER_00]: That was the year the Sonic's one.
09:50 --> 09:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I know I know yes, and the see-all since 79.
09:53 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_01]: We're also not great right what's propelling the 2013 year for me
10:01 --> 10:07 [SPEAKER_01]: is the Robinson Kenow Faker because that was a big deal, that was a big deal around here, along with the Seahawks wedding.
10:08 --> 10:13 [SPEAKER_01]: For a team that had been so bad for so long, that was the first time in my entire life as a Mariners fan.
10:13 --> 10:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Keep in mind, I'm 15, 16 years old at this point.
10:18 --> 10:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's the first time in my life as a Mariners fan that I have memory of because I don't have memory of a one.
10:24 --> 10:48 [SPEAKER_00]: that I felt hope they got a long matter at the first time I never felt hope before that year ever can I make this point though if we're clamoring that you need to win a title so you're seeing it because you felt hope but Robinson can never never made the playoffs with the Mariners no but they got close and again it
10:49 --> 10:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he'd never made the playoffs.
10:50 --> 10:54 [SPEAKER_01]: They should have put more around him, which is a should of the conversation.
10:54 --> 10:59 [SPEAKER_01]: But again, more of it has to do with the fact that the Seahawks wanted all that year.
10:59 --> 11:00 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what it really has to do with.
11:01 --> 11:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know my biggest takeaway of all of this?
11:03 --> 11:12 [SPEAKER_00]: The Mariners seem like the consistent, the consistently the biggest X-factor and whether or not the year was all time great.
11:13 --> 11:14 [SPEAKER_01]: We've seen it, dude.
11:14 --> 11:18 [SPEAKER_01]: When the Mariners were good, I don't think anything rallies this city like the Mariners.
11:18 --> 11:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Even the seahawks right now, as good as they've been.
11:21 --> 11:22 [SPEAKER_01]: They're the number one seed.
11:22 --> 11:26 [SPEAKER_01]: They just paid Charles Cross 20 minutes before we started recording this podcast.
11:26 --> 11:27 [SPEAKER_01]: He just got a big extension.
11:27 --> 11:29 [SPEAKER_01]: They got a chance to win it all this year.
11:30 --> 11:37 [SPEAKER_01]: But I haven't felt the same outcry and rally around the seahawks team in Seattle as I did.
11:37 --> 11:40 [SPEAKER_01]: with this year's Mariners team, not at all, to be honest.
11:40 --> 11:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that's because we do this?
11:43 --> 11:46 [SPEAKER_00]: You feel that way and we don't do this, you know, it's podcast instead.
11:47 --> 11:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, I feel like that is something to do with it.
11:50 --> 11:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, but I don't know, man, I just, it doesn't feel like to me.
11:57 --> 11:59 [SPEAKER_01]: People have bought into this Seahawks team.
12:00 --> 12:04 [SPEAKER_01]: The same way as they did in 2012, 2013 and 2014.
12:04 --> 12:07 [SPEAKER_01]: We're now with the Mariners.
12:08 --> 12:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, but I don't know if I think it's because our mindset has changed on how we view football versus how we view baseball.
12:16 --> 12:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I really think because baseball is our sort of our life now that we just view as much as we love the sea ox.
12:23 --> 12:25 [SPEAKER_00]: We view it differently.
12:25 --> 12:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure many of our listeners are the same.
12:27 --> 12:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure we have some listeners are who aren't huge football fans.
12:31 --> 12:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And like I probably like, oh, this is really cool.
12:33 --> 12:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm along for the ride.
12:34 --> 12:35 [SPEAKER_00]: But nothing.
12:35 --> 12:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing makes my heartbeat like Mariners baseball does.
12:39 --> 12:43 [SPEAKER_00]: No matter how good the CXR Well, we would also agree.
12:44 --> 12:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Me and you would also agree.
12:45 --> 13:00 [SPEAKER_00]: We would 100 times out of 100 Taking Mariners world series championship over another CX Super Bowl because frankly the first one is always the best one It will always be and that's what the Mariners would be getting
13:01 --> 13:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.
13:02 --> 13:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And don't get me wrong, TJ and I are huge football fans.
13:06 --> 13:08 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just funny enough not really our brand to talk about football.
13:08 --> 13:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody wanted to have an in-depth football conversation.
13:11 --> 13:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm happy to have it with anybody.
13:12 --> 13:14 [SPEAKER_01]: But that's not really our brand.
13:14 --> 13:18 [SPEAKER_01]: So sure, maybe there is something that's clouded from doing all the baseball content we do.
13:18 --> 13:19 [SPEAKER_01]: But...
13:19 --> 13:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
13:20 --> 13:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I just didn't feel like it's the same rally cry right now for the Seahawks as it was for the Mariners.
13:26 --> 13:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's because everybody's so enamored with chasing the first one.
13:29 --> 13:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe part of that Sam Darnold factor too and this is not meant to be a shot at Sam Darnold.
13:34 --> 13:42 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not because honestly, I think he's done a ton for this team this year and probably doesn't get enough flowers from the fan base.
13:42 --> 13:45 [SPEAKER_01]: But when you don't have a
13:46 --> 13:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Like a true star electrifying quarterback, sometimes that makes a difference.
13:54 --> 13:56 [SPEAKER_01]: The defenses is star-studded.
13:56 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_01]: You have a receiver that's star-studded.
13:58 --> 14:01 [SPEAKER_01]: You've got a coach that's maybe the best in the league at this point, Mike McDonald.
14:02 --> 14:05 [SPEAKER_01]: But there is something about the quarterback factor that's just different.
14:05 --> 14:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, I think Sam's actually been very good in a lot of spots, despite a lot of the turnovers.
14:10 --> 14:16 [SPEAKER_01]: But there's a difference between what a quarterback is not the star of the team versus when he is.
14:17 --> 14:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think it could also be that we haven't, you, you've been to a COX game this year, have you?
14:22 --> 14:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, and there's obviously way less chances than Mariners games because there's eight of them.
14:26 --> 14:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
14:26 --> 14:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you feel like that could contribute to it as well?
14:28 --> 14:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like there's a chance because here's the thing.
14:31 --> 14:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Most of us who either watch or listen to us or the two of us are selves spend a lot of time at Team Mobile Park.
14:37 --> 14:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Some of you maybe went to all 81 home games this year.
14:39 --> 14:41 [SPEAKER_00]: We went to certainly our fair share.
14:41 --> 14:43 [SPEAKER_00]: We got to talk to Mariners fans all the time.
14:44 --> 14:53 [SPEAKER_00]: But we haven't been like in and around like a dense seahawk crowd that much to actually talk to people and get a sense of how excited they are.
14:53 --> 14:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, part of my barometer here that I'm using, and it's not a perfect one, but it's just the world I live in.
15:00 --> 15:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Being on Brock and Soak, I feel like there is a lot more passion that's been poured into the Mariners from the fans on that show than the Seahawks.
15:08 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not to say that the Seahawks haven't.
15:10 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_01]: To me, it just felt like fans were that much more bought in to the Mariners.
15:16 --> 15:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Not to say people end up on it in the Seahawks, but it was just different with the Mariners this year.
15:20 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess post-traid deadline at the very least.
15:22 --> 15:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is crazy because the Seahawks, if you're going to look at the two teams and how good they are, are way better.
15:26 --> 15:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, yes.
15:28 --> 15:31 [SPEAKER_01]: But Seattle's a baseball town when the team is good.
15:32 --> 15:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we'll just want to see the Mariners win a world series.
15:34 --> 15:35 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what it is.
15:35 --> 15:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, as good as cool as it would be for the Seox to win another Super Bowl.
15:40 --> 15:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing is going to make nothing's going to make the arrow shoot out more than the Mariners winning a world series the first time.
15:46 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Back, because we've, again, in less year like 15 years old, you've seen a Seox Super Bowl very recently.
15:53 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And it was great.
15:53 --> 15:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm around a smile on my face all night that night.
15:56 --> 15:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And throughout the week, parade was awesome.
15:58 --> 16:01 [SPEAKER_00]: But winning a second one will not feel the same.
16:01 --> 16:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I think you'll always remember that first team more than the second team.
16:04 --> 16:12 [SPEAKER_01]: For me, I'll always remember Earl and Sherman, Bobby and Cam and Ross and everybody over March on, of course.
16:12 --> 16:16 [SPEAKER_00]: March on, had a heck of a weekend, by the way, who's on a manning cast?
16:16 --> 16:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't believe they keep letting him go on there because yes, they're willing to pay the fines to just keep letting him make appearances anyway For as good as this the hockey team has been I think I'll always have Fondor memories of the first team and that L.O.B.
16:31 --> 16:36 [SPEAKER_01]: team then You know Leonard Williams to Marcus Lawrence, J.S.N.
16:37 --> 16:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Anybody else you want to throw into that fold, too.
16:39 --> 16:41 [SPEAKER_01]: For as good as they've been Devin with her spoon
16:42 --> 17:01 [SPEAKER_01]: All of it and again, like some of it maybe the star QB factor and I actually think what they're doing right now is the formula to win a Super Bowl I don't think you can pay a quarterback 20% of your cap and win we were talking about this pre-recording But it's just when the quarter X not the star your team the way Kalin Julio or front facing stars every day does make
17:02 --> 17:29 [SPEAKER_00]: some difference I think and people are going to remember this mayor's team if they somehow get it done this core they will this is that is how they will be remembered people will be putting cow and julio up there with the great so the the players that everyone thought were was going to take care of business in the 90s and early 2000s griffy randy a rod like that's that's the Edgar though that's going to be the level these guys are
17:29 --> 17:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that was a fun discussion though because once the cox one one yesterday It's this this is the first time ever the cox and the mayor's have won their division in the same season ever They've been around 50 years first time ever
17:43 --> 17:47 [SPEAKER_01]: This is also kind of fun for the first 15 minutes or so of this show to do a little crossover talk.
17:47 --> 17:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how often we really get to talk any seahawks, which why would we on a Mariners podcast, but it was relevant today.
17:53 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_01]: People are up in a buzz about it today, and this week, and they should be.
17:56 --> 17:59 [SPEAKER_01]: So it felt like a good time to kind of cross over a little bit.
17:59 --> 18:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And because we still have no Brendan Donovan.
18:04 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_00]: We have to kill 15 minutes talking football because there's still no Brendan Donovan.
18:09 --> 18:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe one of these days while, maybe one of these days they'll make the trade.
18:12 --> 18:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I know, and like we're obviously trying to wait to start doing our previews, so the team can actually be set, and this team is not set without one more true impact bad.
18:23 --> 18:27 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll get to that a little later, but we're trying to wait till this
18:27 --> 18:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Damn move happens.
18:29 --> 18:30 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's January 4th.
18:31 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I would hope sometime soon.
18:32 --> 18:34 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to get it.
18:34 --> 18:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I whether it's Donovan, whether it's Nico Horner, whoever.
18:39 --> 18:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Some hope so.
18:41 --> 18:47 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a move that happened over the weekend that people had some comments about and that there was some discourse about, so let's get on to it.
18:47 --> 18:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So Kazuma Okamoto signed with the Blue Jays for years for $60 million.
18:53 --> 18:56 [SPEAKER_00]: He signed on the day that his posting window expired.
18:57 --> 19:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So he was up against the clock to get this deal done.
19:00 --> 19:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And there were, oh, what were their sixth, seven teams rumored to be in on them in that final day?
19:06 --> 19:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And he ends up choosing the Blue Jace.
19:08 --> 19:09 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not actually in that pool.
19:09 --> 19:13 [SPEAKER_00]: But one of the teams that was in that pool of teams was the Seattle Mariners.
19:14 --> 19:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And there was a large chunk of the online community for the Mariners.
19:19 --> 19:25 [SPEAKER_00]: who thought the Mariners had a really good shot at getting Kazuma Okamoto, but you and I are sitting here wondering why?
19:25 --> 19:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we talked about them on Friday's episode in the mail bag, how have you think about it?
19:31 --> 19:41 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no word to put him, and now seeing the contract he got, I just don't see how, and any way since or form that would make sense, I was confused.
19:43 --> 19:50 [SPEAKER_01]: The only way it works is if you would have split him between DH and third base, because this is obviously not going to play it first.
19:50 --> 19:55 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you had DH some days and played third base some days, I guess you could have made it work.
19:55 --> 19:58 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're just talking about how do you get Ocomodo on the roster?
19:59 --> 20:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Not me saying, oh, I wish they had done this, because that's another part of this conversation.
20:03 --> 20:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't really.
20:05 --> 20:08 [SPEAKER_01]: but if you're just talking about the fit on the roster, that's the only way.
20:08 --> 20:19 [SPEAKER_01]: But then you also have to start thinking about a potential JP Crawford traded that point because if you're planning to play Colt Dymerson in 2026, which they are once he's ready, where does he play?
20:19 --> 20:26 [SPEAKER_01]: If you have Okamoto taking up third base and Crawford taking up short stop and potentially don't have been taking up second,
20:27 --> 20:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know where Cold Emerson goes, especially Okamoto on a 4-year deal.
20:32 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Gino on a 1-year deal is different, because that's a 1-year deal, and again he can play a lot of D.H. 4 years he has locked into third base.
20:41 --> 20:45 [SPEAKER_00]: due to Okamoto on a four year deal and trading JP Crawford will be malpractice.
20:46 --> 20:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm out on that.
20:47 --> 20:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I probably should have started with that.
20:48 --> 20:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm out on that idea.
20:50 --> 20:53 [SPEAKER_01]: That would be how you'd have to make it work, but I would never do that.
20:53 --> 20:55 [SPEAKER_00]: JP Crawford, I'll stamp it.
20:55 --> 20:58 [SPEAKER_00]: JP Crawford will be a better hitter than Kazuma Okamoto on 2026.
20:59 --> 21:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I agree with that, and then in that case, why did you sign Rob refs9 or actually, if you sign Rob refs9 or then you sign Kazuma Okamoto, first of all, that doesn't fit on your roster at all.
21:11 --> 21:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Second of all, I would also say that there's a decent chance that Rob refs9 is also better at hitting this year than Kazuma Okamoto, which is the reason you would bring him in.
21:21 --> 21:29 [SPEAKER_00]: But except Rob Ruff Snyder costs $6 million, Kazumo Okamoto, you have to pay $15 million a year for four years.
21:30 --> 21:33 [SPEAKER_00]: If you guys wanted the Mariners to hand out a contract like this, great.
21:33 --> 21:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Can we choose someone who's played in major league baseball to do that?
21:38 --> 21:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, really?
21:39 --> 21:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this isn't show-hey, this isn't Yamamoto, those guys were so in their own world.
21:44 --> 21:46 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a reason those two were as coveted as they were.
21:47 --> 21:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're seeing it firsthand in the big leagues.
21:49 --> 21:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Okamoto and Murakami aren't like that, and just stick it on the Okamoto conversation.
21:53 --> 21:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's a world at 30 years old, he's below average this year.
21:59 --> 22:07 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a world he's a real contributor, I'm not saying it's impossible, but if you're the Mariners and you pay him $15 million to potentially be half a war player,
22:08 --> 22:11 [SPEAKER_01]: you get that out of Ben Williamson for a league minimum.
22:11 --> 22:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Ben Williamson wouldn't do it with his bad.
22:14 --> 22:21 [SPEAKER_01]: He'd do it with his glove, but it would be the same value for 14 and a half million dollars less.
22:22 --> 22:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I would have rather given that money to, as you stated before we had started recording, just go give that money to someone you're going to trade for.
22:29 --> 22:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of giving it to someone who hasn't played in major league baseball, like let's lay out again, because we talked about Okamoto a while ago now, so it's just relay out the facts about him.
22:39 --> 22:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So he's been a very productive hitter, especially recently in MPBE, with his OPS climbing into the 900s.
22:46 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_00]: But first career, Okamoto is about an 850 OPS guy in MPBE, which is a level down for Major League Baseball.
22:53 --> 22:58 [SPEAKER_00]: He's struggled with velocity like most MPBE hitters throughout his career.
22:58 --> 23:03 [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't really have a clear cut fit on your roster given the position he plays.
23:04 --> 23:10 [SPEAKER_00]: He will be 30 years old this upcoming year, meaning his best years, prime years, are already behind him.
23:11 --> 23:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And on top of that, you would have to guarantee him through his age 33 season, while he's potentially declining as well.
23:20 --> 23:27 [SPEAKER_00]: If you were to give that $60 million to Devon Williams off the board, but hypothetically, I would have rather have done that.
23:28 --> 23:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd rather pay that AAV to it's not how much Donovan costs, but close.
23:33 --> 23:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that makes your team much better than Ocomodo would.
23:36 --> 23:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And the Blue Jason Mariners are also in totally different financial states.
23:39 --> 23:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not even close.
23:40 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, the mariners are what they are.
23:43 --> 23:44 [SPEAKER_01]: We've talked about it at length.
23:45 --> 23:52 [SPEAKER_01]: The blue jays, I mean, Rogers has the second most amount of money of any owner and baseball.
23:52 --> 24:00 [SPEAKER_01]: This isn't by team, but by owners, net worth, Rogers and the blue jays are number two behind Steve Cohen.
24:00 --> 24:01 [SPEAKER_01]: They have got crazy money.
24:01 --> 24:04 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a reason they're spending like this this off season.
24:05 --> 24:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So the blue jays for anyone that's not aware, the blue jays are not owned by a person they're owned by Rogers communications, which is I believe the number one communications company in Canada who owns sports net and has properties to the blue jays and every hockey, I believe every hockey team in Canada.
24:28 --> 24:29 [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty good investment.
24:29 --> 24:33 [SPEAKER_00]: They're worth $20.6 billion.
24:34 --> 24:35 [SPEAKER_00]: 20.6 billion dollars.
24:37 --> 24:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have the total number of how much Mariners ownership is worth.
24:40 --> 24:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Not that much, not particularly close.
24:42 --> 24:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Listen to these contracts that the blue jays are okay, essentially just eating a hole in their pocket in the upcoming season.
24:49 --> 24:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Besides the Ocomodo one, which is now fresh on this.
24:53 --> 25:04 [SPEAKER_00]: The blue jays are paying a Jose burios $18 million this upcoming season and they didn't even put them on the world's the playoff roster this past year.
25:04 --> 25:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Mariner said an $18 million contract that they couldn't even add to their postseason roster be the worst contract they've ever signed in Mariner's history.
25:13 --> 25:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Andre Semenez, dude can't hit to save his life, decent builder can't hit, $15 million this year, and use to be a well below average hitter.
25:24 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_00]: On Anthony Santander, it's contract already looks like a total disaster for the blue jays.
25:29 --> 25:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to make about $14 million this year.
25:31 --> 25:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Three players today have shown they can very easily win without saying a combined almost $50 million for what could potentially be two wins above replacement combined between those three guys this year.
25:48 --> 25:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And most of that comes from Andre Semenis's defense.
25:53 --> 26:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, maybe it's a little more, maybe it's more like $3 million, but even, or sorry, maybe it's more like three war, but even if it's a three war from three players, for the money they make, that's half of what the value of their contracts combined should be, cause one war is worth about $8 million, and if you combine those three contracts for this year in 2026, they're gonna make about $50 million.
26:15 --> 26:20 [SPEAKER_01]: They put up three combined war, that's $24 million worth of value.
26:20 --> 26:22 [SPEAKER_01]: You're half your value short.
26:23 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a team in the Bluegees that has also already signed Dylan Seas to a massive contract and is still in on both BobaShet and Kyle Tucker.
26:30 --> 26:32 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just different stratosphere as a money.
26:32 --> 26:34 [SPEAKER_00]: We want the Mariners to spend more money.
26:35 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_00]: We want them to spend as much money as it takes for them to have a world-series caliber baseball team.
26:40 --> 26:42 [SPEAKER_00]: But the Blue Jays and Mariners are not even close.
26:42 --> 26:51 [SPEAKER_00]: So the Blue Jays can afford for Kazuma Okamoto to crap out on his contract and perhaps be a little bit too old and not quite good enough for Angelic baseball.
26:51 --> 26:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Mariners can't afford that.
26:52 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_00]: The Mariners are handing out a $60 million contract.
26:55 --> 26:57 [SPEAKER_00]: They need the player to be at least Lee Yavrich.
26:58 --> 26:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
27:00 --> 27:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I have always said, every team in baseball could get into the top 12 of the payroll.
27:05 --> 27:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I fully believe that if I'm wrong about that, the owner should open their books and prove it.
27:09 --> 27:13 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I'm going to say during a lot of the lockout, too, is like, you want to take your word on things as the owners open your books.
27:14 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Show us.
27:15 --> 27:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Players contracts are all public.
27:17 --> 27:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Players money is all public, what's yours?
27:19 --> 27:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, despite believing that that every team in baseball could be in the top 12 in payroll and compete with all these teams to win a world series,
27:28 --> 27:47 [SPEAKER_01]: not everybody can spend not everybody can spend like the Dodgers or in this case not everybody can spend like the blue jays either because the blue jays money is significantly more than most teams in baseball and you're seeing it and you're seeing what the weather operating and the blue jays have jumped to essentially the top of the American League East in peril i mean they passed the Yankees they've passed the red socks
27:48 --> 28:04 [SPEAKER_00]: the they the raise have never been competition the orials now have a very rich owner but they have yet to show their willing to actually spend that kind of money and they don't have the same financial situation at the blue jays to the blue jays are in a very unique position there honestly
28:04 --> 28:08 [SPEAKER_00]: in more of a similar position to the Dodgers than any other team in baseball is.
28:08 --> 28:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Because the Dodgers can spend so much money.
28:11 --> 28:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Number one is because of their TV deal.
28:16 --> 28:20 [SPEAKER_00]: They have the most ridiculous OP RSN deal of all time.
28:20 --> 28:25 [SPEAKER_00]: They get their RSN pays them, I believe, like $330 million a year.
28:26 --> 28:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
28:27 --> 28:28 [SPEAKER_00]: It's absurd.
28:28 --> 28:32 [SPEAKER_00]: But they're also owned by a massive company headed by Mark Walter.
28:33 --> 28:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Mark Walter is the CEO of Guggenheim, I think it's pronounced.
28:38 --> 28:39 [SPEAKER_00]: That's his own Guggenheim.
28:39 --> 28:41 [SPEAKER_00]: That's who owns the Dodgers.
28:41 --> 28:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So these two teams, the Blue Jays and the Dodgers, owned by these massive multi-billion dollar corporations.
28:47 --> 28:52 [SPEAKER_00]: can afford to take on a little bit more cash, a little bit more payroll than some of these other teams do.
28:52 --> 28:59 [SPEAKER_00]: We're owned more by a collection of people as opposed to businesses that make money elsewhere besides the team.
28:59 --> 29:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:00 --> 29:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Also.
29:01 --> 29:04 [SPEAKER_01]: How many absurd contracts have the Dodgers even really given out?
29:05 --> 29:21 [SPEAKER_01]: They've given out the two massive ones to show Hey and Yama Moto even though in year one, they made all the money back on show Hey's contract and are now going to profit like hell off that, which is what we were saying in the first place about signing show Hey and why he's worth every penny, but different topic for a different day.
29:22 --> 29:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Besides him in Yama Moto, what have they really done that's so crazy?
29:25 --> 29:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess the mookie bets deal, but like Frey Freyman's contract, reasonable, Blake's
29:31 --> 29:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's fair.
29:33 --> 29:37 [SPEAKER_00]: The volume is also the ability to sign Michael can photo for how much they spend on him.
29:37 --> 29:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he can just like leave him off the roster, no problem.
29:42 --> 29:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that part's fair.
29:44 --> 29:48 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, this is the difference between why the Blue Jays can eat that money.
29:49 --> 29:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I would not want the Mariners to personally take that gamble on Yalamoto.
29:52 --> 29:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Knowing you have one big move left in you for a bat.
29:56 --> 30:22 [SPEAKER_00]: use it on one of the guys on the trade route because those are your best options left and as you want to surprise everybody me include well not me but everybody else inside Kyle Tucker then use it on the trade route safe to say if they had done okamoto instead of Brennan Donovan I would have been furious yeah I think that would have made the Mariners roster worse and put them in a tougher predicament for the subcoming season right that's where we're at right now as we sit and we wait for this final move to be made
30:22 --> 30:45 [SPEAKER_01]: What if the mariners don't make another move and they're okay with the roster as is not good enough Why Because you would have gone from six bath deep in the playoffs last year to four and that includes Arandia Rosarena who you hope produces again this year, but obviously his October didn't go all that great.
30:45 --> 30:51 [SPEAKER_01]: You'd hope that's just a bad month and a flush it as a whole next year but that is four batch
30:51 --> 31:07 [SPEAKER_01]: that you would really depend on and I hell of a lot of question marks five through nine for a team that's supposed to be competing to get back to the world series against the Blue JSTM that was two outs away from winning it all and was so hurt by losing.
31:07 --> 31:10 [SPEAKER_01]: that they said, we're going out and spend it all the money this winter.
31:10 --> 31:11 [SPEAKER_01]: We're getting everybody on to our roster.
31:11 --> 31:13 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to go get Dillon Seas.
31:13 --> 31:14 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to go get Trevor Rogers.
31:14 --> 31:16 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to go get Ocomodo.
31:16 --> 31:20 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to even get a six starter long reliever in Cody Ponds.
31:20 --> 31:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, we're still probably going to get one of Boba Shetton Kyle Tucker.
31:23 --> 31:31 [SPEAKER_01]: These two teams of the Mariners and BlueJays were neck and neck last year with the BlueJays ultimately proving to be just a little bit better.
31:31 --> 31:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Now they're trying to lap the rest of the American League.
31:34 --> 31:45 [SPEAKER_01]: And while you might not be able to do that as the Mariners, you sure as hell better find a way to get at least one more bat to put out a similar product to what you did last year.
31:45 --> 31:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And you need one more bat to do that.
31:48 --> 31:55 [SPEAKER_01]: The guys that would currently run out the lineup five through nine, you can't have that for not even 162 games.
31:55 --> 31:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I know they probably make moves at the deadline.
31:57 --> 31:59 [SPEAKER_01]: You can't have that for 100 games.
31:59 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_00]: The reason I asked that is because fan graphs over these weeks have come out with their projections for this upcoming 20, 26 season, trying to take a guess of what every player's war is going to be.
32:10 --> 32:18 [SPEAKER_00]: The Mariners right now without another move in tow have projected the fifth best roster in all a baseball by war.
32:19 --> 32:21 [SPEAKER_00]: The order goes number one, Dodgers.
32:22 --> 32:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Number two, Blue Jays.
32:23 --> 32:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, it almost backs up exactly what we just said for our previous conversation.
32:28 --> 32:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Number three, Yankees.
32:29 --> 32:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Number four, Braves.
32:31 --> 32:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Number five, Mariners.
32:33 --> 32:38 [SPEAKER_00]: That puts you right at the top of the league without even needing to make another move.
32:39 --> 32:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was interesting to look at, but ultimately my answer is the exact same as yours.
32:44 --> 32:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Cause,
32:46 --> 32:49 [SPEAKER_00]: All you need to do is look at your lineup and you realize it's not good enough.
32:49 --> 32:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll tell you why that number is really high.
32:51 --> 33:03 [SPEAKER_00]: The number is really high because you, unlike most other teams in baseball, have this absurd combination of two high-war position players, not just good.
33:04 --> 33:15 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking like, hi, you have a 9-1 catcher and you have a center field of the who could one day be a 9-1 player and who Leo Rodriguez.
33:16 --> 33:18 [SPEAKER_00]: That could be at two war pictures or better.
33:18 --> 33:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And fan graphs.
33:18 --> 33:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Two wars pretty good for picture on fan graphs.
33:21 --> 33:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Two maybe three.
33:22 --> 33:23 [SPEAKER_00]: You have all five.
33:24 --> 33:26 [SPEAKER_00]: You could be at, you could have all five theoretically.
33:26 --> 33:31 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why the mariners are in a decent spot and their war numbers as high as it is.
33:31 --> 33:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And theoretically, yeah, that sounds great.
33:34 --> 33:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Enter the mariners pitching staff, pitches up to those numbers, then you could probably withstand the lack of line-up that you have right now.
33:42 --> 33:47 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you want to counterbalance this argument, literally all you need to do, it's right out the Mariners opening day line up.
33:47 --> 33:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's play an exercise, Lyle.
33:49 --> 33:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's write out the Mariners opening day line up, written out by Dan Wilson himself.
33:53 --> 33:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Leading off for the Mariners, Lyle is... Randy Roosevelt, right now.
33:58 --> 33:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Great, batting second.
34:01 --> 34:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Could go one of two ways, let's say, Cal Rally.
34:05 --> 34:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Great, batting third, Julio, batting fourth.
34:10 --> 34:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Josh Naylor.
34:12 --> 34:39 [SPEAKER_00]: batting fifth why don't you tell me you're three options I think you can either put Dom can zone fifth you can put Rob Raff Snyder fifth or you can put Luke Rayleigh fifth hmm yep yeah we're not done build out let's go presented without comment choose one oh going next uh
34:41 --> 34:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Thatting sixth, are we saying that's the DH file?
34:44 --> 34:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh no, you got a pick, who's batting fifth?
34:46 --> 34:47 [SPEAKER_01]: You didn't pick one.
34:47 --> 34:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm sorry.
34:48 --> 34:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's say it's a right hand of Petra on the mountain, so it's canzone.
34:51 --> 34:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, batting sixth, are we assuming canzone's the DH here?
34:57 --> 35:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
35:01 --> 35:02 [SPEAKER_01]: That would put Victor Robles in right field.
35:03 --> 35:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Batting sixth, yeah?
35:05 --> 35:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, it would probably put Luke Rayleigh in right field.
35:08 --> 35:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, whoever they decide to put in right field, Raylee or Robless would be batting six, batting seven.
35:15 --> 35:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Probably Cole Young, batting eight, Ben Williamson, batting ninth, JP Crawford, Randy Cal Julio Nailer, Canzone, Raylee, Young Williamson Crawford as you're starting lineup an opening day.
35:34 --> 35:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Could be worse, we've seen worse.
35:37 --> 35:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Compared to the final lineup, the lineup, they rolled out in game seven.
35:41 --> 35:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Man, there's a bit of a gap there in five and six from what it was, then to what it is right now.
35:49 --> 35:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And I say that as someone who took the other side of the argument a couple of weeks ago, when we were talking about what if you rolled out with this current lineup and you weren't able to get one more move.
35:59 --> 36:01 [SPEAKER_00]: So try to look at the positive side of it.
36:02 --> 36:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Looking at this lineup and what we've written out,
36:06 --> 36:08 [SPEAKER_00]: There's just too much unpredictability.
36:08 --> 36:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Even if you eventually switch, Ben Williamson and Colt Emerson, you don't know how good Colt Emerson's gonna be as rookie.
36:15 --> 36:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So you just can't say he's gonna be great when he comes up.
36:20 --> 36:22 [SPEAKER_00]: That just leaves you with the lineup.
36:22 --> 36:28 [SPEAKER_00]: That is, I'll say because of the top four and JP Crawford solid in the nine hole.
36:28 --> 36:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll say that lineup is like,
36:31 --> 36:39 [SPEAKER_00]: The 13th or 12th best lineup in baseball, somewhere from like 13 to 11, but like that's it.
36:40 --> 36:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And the only way a lineup like that gets all the way through the season and is successful is if the Mariners have a 2024 pitching season again and you just can't predict that.
36:49 --> 36:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
36:50 --> 36:52 [SPEAKER_01]: You could argue that lineup's even a little bit lower.
36:52 --> 36:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's more like right at the league average mark.
36:55 --> 36:55 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not good enough.
36:56 --> 36:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Now if you make one more trade, you get one of Donovan Horner and Marta.
36:59 --> 37:01 [SPEAKER_01]: You're back into the top 10.
37:01 --> 37:02 [SPEAKER_01]: That lineup is good enough.
37:03 --> 37:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Because then that would do, that would essentially do this.
37:05 --> 37:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So you have Donovan, let's say where you put Donovan at second base, that puts Donovan hitting after Josh Nailer.
37:13 --> 37:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So Donovan, when we're about fifth, you would put Canzone then as a DH batting sixth.
37:19 --> 37:25 [SPEAKER_00]: and you would put Rayleigh as a right-fielder batting seventh, and then you do Williamson and Crawford.
37:26 --> 37:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So, Cole Young would be on the bench in this lineup.
37:28 --> 37:32 [SPEAKER_00]: But then again, remember with Brandon Donovan, he could swap in for Cole Young.
37:32 --> 37:34 [SPEAKER_00]: He could swap in for Ben Williamson.
37:35 --> 37:39 [SPEAKER_00]: He could swap in for Randy and Meg Randy the DH.
37:41 --> 37:46 [SPEAKER_00]: He has a really play right field, but in theory, you could take your right field or put him in left,
37:46 --> 37:50 [SPEAKER_00]: You could have Brendan Donovan occupied the right field spot and have played them left.
37:50 --> 37:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Brendan Donovan played some right field.
37:52 --> 37:53 [SPEAKER_01]: You could if you needed them too.
37:54 --> 38:01 [SPEAKER_01]: So the point being here is if you're trying to roll out your best lineup, Donovan's probably a third in this scenario.
38:01 --> 38:08 [SPEAKER_01]: So Donovan would take over for Williamson while Cole Dermerson's not up yet, Cole Young plays second and that's how you roll it out.
38:08 --> 38:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And yes, in that scenario, better line up and very achievable, because Brendan Donovan is still available.
38:16 --> 38:19 [SPEAKER_00]: But it just needs to happen, something needs to happen.
38:19 --> 38:20 [SPEAKER_00]: We're waiting.
38:20 --> 38:22 [SPEAKER_00]: We're patiently waiting for this trade to go through.
38:23 --> 38:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So we don't have to see that line up on opening day.
38:26 --> 38:28 [SPEAKER_00]: So Donovan, Donovan doesn't happen.
38:29 --> 38:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Like they still will make a move to try and prove this line up.
38:31 --> 38:45 [SPEAKER_00]: How good that move is is clearly dependent on price of these other available free agents of these trade options et cetera, because right now, even despite sort of the
38:46 --> 39:15 [SPEAKER_00]: This line up is still a bat short and they need to go get that bat they need they need one more bat in this line up at least to start and then if you still need that bat at the deadline that six bat Then you go get that bat at a Decreased price of the deadline and make your run to the posties and like you did this year which is entirely possible Totally agree, but you gotta get the last bat Yeah, the sooner we can be done listening to Cardinals fans online talking about trade proposals with the Mariners the better
39:17 --> 39:41 [SPEAKER_01]: they're just asking for a lot we don't know what would like the package to come out so we can just see see you guys aren't right i mean they were comparing at the other day to an atom eating trade where it's like look as g elito was a top five prospect we uh... the nationals got got atom eating and have to trade g elito therefore there's no reason the mariners shouldn't have to trade ryan's flown for Brendan Donovan
39:42 --> 39:44 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, different era of baseball.
39:44 --> 39:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And, well, and Adam Eaton was way...
39:48 --> 39:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Adam Eaton had way more value at the time than Donovan has now.
39:52 --> 39:57 [SPEAKER_01]: If you actually go compare it when Eaton was traded because of the defense he played, his value was up.
39:57 --> 39:59 [SPEAKER_01]: He was like a six win player.
39:59 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like shut it down this second.
40:02 --> 40:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Ryan Sloan will not be getting traded.
40:03 --> 40:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm pretty sure he's basically untouchable for the Mariners and he sure is hell not getting traded for Brendan Donovan.
40:09 --> 40:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Cardinals could like him, but they would need to trade significantly better players that they don't have on their roster for him.
40:19 --> 40:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, go ahead another player and we will keep waiting until you do.
40:26 --> 40:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully we don't have to do it that long because starting to do these previews would be fun.
40:29 --> 40:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Start getting everybody fired up about the season as we roll into spring training.
40:32 --> 40:35 [SPEAKER_01]: But we gotta wait for it to happen, no way.
40:36 --> 40:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, unfortunately.
40:37 --> 40:38 [SPEAKER_01]: We do.
40:38 --> 40:40 [SPEAKER_01]: But we do have a very fun interview coming up on Wednesdays.
40:40 --> 40:47 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you need any incentive, if any at all, to stick around for Wednesdays episode, we gotta really fun when coming up Wednesdays.
40:47 --> 40:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So tune in, you won't want to miss it.
40:50 --> 40:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Alright, that just about does it for this episode of the Marine Lair podcast.
40:53 --> 40:54 [SPEAKER_01]: You guys know the drill.
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41:33 --> 41:34 [SPEAKER_01]: That's TJ.
41:34 --> 41:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Lyle.
41:35 --> 41:37 [SPEAKER_01]: As always, we thank you guys for tuning in and we'll talk to you soon.