Lyle and TJ rank their 50 greatest Mariners of all-time in honor of the Mariners celebrating their 50th season and unveiling their top-50 later this year.
1-10 (4:29)
11-20 (15:49)
21-30 (28:52)
31-40 (39:45)
41-50 (43:22)
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00:00 --> 00:13 [SPEAKER_00]: But when episode number 355 of the Marine Layer podcast, we rank the 50 greatest Mariners of all time, number one through number 50 all here on this very episode.
00:13 --> 00:40 [SPEAKER_01]: reminder to you guys before we start this episode go download these podcast episodes if you're listening go rate and review on Apple and Spotify please go leave it five stars if you're on YouTube like comment and go hit subscribe that way you always get notified and we're posted new content you can find everything in our website that's marinelayerpod.com all of our episodes are there merch is there are patreon is there go check all that out and then you can find us across social media at marinelayerpod.
00:40 --> 00:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's get it rolling
00:55 --> 01:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Lair podcast part of the just baseball podcast network recording here on Saturday afternoon January 24th.
01:05 --> 01:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been looking forward to this episode since we got suggested this idea to do where we're picking out our 50 greatest mariners of all time.
01:14 --> 01:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think
01:15 --> 01:25 [SPEAKER_00]: For this episode, Lyle, it's going to be a little different than how the Mariners are framing it for their 50th year celebration where they're trying to choose the 50th, 50 greatest Mariners of all time.
01:25 --> 01:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I think of how it's set up right now.
01:27 --> 01:36 [SPEAKER_00]: The Mariners have you go on their website and you're not ranking them in order, you're just going and picking 50 of the greatest players of all time.
01:37 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is totally fine.
01:38 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_00]: However, Lyle and I today will be ranking.
01:42 --> 01:42 [SPEAKER_00]: 50.
01:43 --> 01:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Number one through number 50.
01:46 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So how do you feel about your list?
01:48 --> 01:51 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a it was a hard list to make, dude.
01:51 --> 01:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Once you get past the obvious names, I'd say once you get past the first half of the list, you can honestly argue the first third of the list.
02:00 --> 02:01 [SPEAKER_01]: It is not easy.
02:01 --> 02:06 [SPEAKER_01]: When you got down to the 30s and 40s, I'm like, oh my god, I don't even know.
02:06 --> 02:09 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a pretty slam dunk top 25.
02:09 --> 02:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just what order are you gonna put them in?
02:12 --> 02:17 [SPEAKER_00]: But then after that, the Mariners have a lot of players clump together.
02:17 --> 02:29 [SPEAKER_00]: As many franchises would, but you'd be kind of surprised some of the, maybe the boost that some players get when you look at how they stack up all time or the lack of boost they have when they stack up all time.
02:30 --> 02:31 [SPEAKER_00]: For example,
02:31 --> 02:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you realize until we were doing this list that the Mariners have only had 12 pictures ever in their 50 years of franchise accumulate 10 more?
02:41 --> 02:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Just 12.
02:42 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_00]: That's one every five seasons essentially.
02:46 --> 02:48 [SPEAKER_00]: That's less than ideal.
02:49 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's not great.
02:52 --> 03:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, hopefully there's a whole crop of them coming with the five that are currently in the rotation and then the next wave of them between Sloan, K, Gerangelo, hopefully they're about to get a bunch to make up for what's seriously been some lost time.
03:06 --> 03:08 [SPEAKER_00]: So here's how we're gonna structure the episode today.
03:08 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Since we ranked all of them, normally on a ranking, we would go from 50 to one.
03:15 --> 03:20 [SPEAKER_00]: We would start at the bottom of the list and we'd go all the way up to the greatest player in franchise history.
03:20 --> 03:25 [SPEAKER_00]: But since there's less debate, I don't know why we would start at 50.
03:25 --> 03:34 [SPEAKER_00]: We should start at the top, and I want to go from number one down to number 50 because number 50 is where I think the interesting conversations are going to be had.
03:35 --> 03:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to split this up into sections, one to 10, 11 to 20, 21 to 30, 31 to 40, and 41 to 50.
03:43 --> 03:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Capiche?
03:46 --> 03:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to go by tens or by five is 10 going to be too many names in each section for people to hear?
03:52 --> 03:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We can do five's.
03:53 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so we'll do a one to five, six to 10, 11 to 15, et cetera.
03:57 --> 03:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's do that.
03:58 --> 03:58 [SPEAKER_00]: That's how we can bring it down.
03:59 --> 04:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Why don't you tell the people you're one through five on a list that is, again, I said, hard to make, but was really, really fun.
04:06 --> 04:17 [SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, I would encourage all of you guys to do the same exercise with your friends, with your family, either write down your own list or you can obviously just go right to the Mariners website and vote on it yourself.
04:17 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_01]: The reason we made our own is because we actually wanted to rank them.
04:21 --> 04:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Number one player in franchise history for little surprises, Ken Griffey Jr.
04:26 --> 04:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Number two is each year old.
04:27 --> 04:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Number three is Felix.
04:29 --> 04:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Number four is Edgar.
04:31 --> 04:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Number five is Randy Johnson.
04:34 --> 04:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, no way.
04:36 --> 04:38 [SPEAKER_01]: As Stewie would say on family guy.
04:38 --> 04:39 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a hot take right there.
04:39 --> 04:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it, hot takes galore.
04:42 --> 04:43 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm kidding.
04:43 --> 04:45 [SPEAKER_01]: This is why we're starting to number one.
04:45 --> 04:51 [SPEAKER_01]: The only thing you and I have any different in the top five is I flipped Edgar and Felix.
04:51 --> 04:57 [SPEAKER_01]: So I have Griffith one, each row two, Edgar three, Felix four, Randy Johnson five.
04:58 --> 05:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you look at this from a war perspective, there is a gap between these guys in everybody else.
05:05 --> 05:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So you have the three most successful hitters by a pretty sizable amount in terms of baseball reference war.
05:12 --> 05:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you have the two most successful pictures of all time by baseball reference war.
05:18 --> 05:23 [SPEAKER_00]: There's guys we could mention that we're gonna mention from six to 10 that could be as great of baseball players.
05:24 --> 05:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I did give the tiebreaker in my list, and no, as you guys would assume, there are plenty of biases in this list.
05:31 --> 05:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say a bias that commonly occurs with me, I have a lot of recency bias.
05:35 --> 05:52 [SPEAKER_00]: If I've watched you play in my life, you're going to get more of a benefit of doubt than some players that played in the 80s and the early 90s who might have been very good, but I never watched play and whose name I might not recognize right away.
05:53 --> 05:56 [SPEAKER_00]: For me, the top five was decently easy.
05:56 --> 05:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Despite the fact you could make arguments for others.
05:59 --> 06:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, I'm going to make a decision on the fly here and open this up a little bit more.
06:03 --> 06:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to go top six, because I think our top six is going to be about the same as everybody else's.
06:08 --> 06:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Arrods at number six for both of us.
06:11 --> 06:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
06:12 --> 06:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Those are pretty undisputedly.
06:13 --> 06:16 [SPEAKER_01]: The six best players to ever put on a Mariners uniform.
06:16 --> 06:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And what I think stands out about the top six is I said this to you before we started recording.
06:22 --> 06:26 [SPEAKER_01]: you can make an argument with any of these six guys that they are interchangeable.
06:27 --> 06:39 [SPEAKER_01]: If you were somebody out there that says, I'm putting Alex Rodriguez number one on my list because nobody and I mean nobody was better in a Mariners uniform in his prime over a shortened stretch as he was.
06:39 --> 06:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you value
06:41 --> 06:52 [SPEAKER_01]: like absolutely elite level MVP type dominating success in a shorter time span than long jevity, you might have a rod at one, and I would say go for it.
06:52 --> 06:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I have been as big a proponent TJ2 as anybody that a rod needs to be in the Mariners Hall of Fame.
06:57 --> 07:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And we have a number six on our list for that exact reason, and there's some people out there that could have a number one.
07:02 --> 07:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's on baseball reference.
07:04 --> 07:06 [SPEAKER_00]: He's the only mariner with a 10-war season.
07:07 --> 07:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me double check this.
07:09 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, again, nobody was as good in a singular season as Erad with the Mariners.
07:15 --> 07:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the couple seasons he put up where he was in eight war player, a ten war player, you just can't, you can't repeat that.
07:22 --> 07:27 [SPEAKER_00]: According to baseball reference in 2000, he was worth over ten wins above replacement.
07:27 --> 07:29 [SPEAKER_00]: The only player in Mariners franchise history.
07:29 --> 07:35 [SPEAKER_00]: He had, he was better on a season by season basis when he was in Seattle than Griffey was.
07:35 --> 07:37 [SPEAKER_00]: However, Griffey was better for longer and stayed in Seattle for longer.
07:38 --> 07:40 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why for me, he gets to be number one.
07:40 --> 07:50 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you want to make a case like Lyle said, look, if I'm just looking at the talent of the player, and who could give me the best results and who could be technically the greatest?
07:50 --> 07:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Then I'm going to make the argument for Alxard Regas.
07:52 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to make, all right.
07:53 --> 07:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you can make an argument for that.
07:55 --> 07:59 [SPEAKER_00]: These six, you could make it all making an argument for number one.
08:00 --> 08:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And you would be sound.
08:02 --> 08:03 [SPEAKER_00]: You'd be justified.
08:04 --> 08:10 [SPEAKER_00]: To use this example further, if you were to go to number seven, I could not make a justification.
08:10 --> 08:16 [SPEAKER_00]: as good as he was, that Kyle Seeger is the greatest player in Mariners franchise history.
08:16 --> 08:23 [SPEAKER_00]: That's who I have at number seven, and all time great, Mariners, one of the best they've ever had, but I could not make a case for him.
08:24 --> 08:27 [SPEAKER_01]: For sure, and that's why it's the top six and then you go from there.
08:28 --> 08:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Because those six guys just sit in a baseball lore that is so far and away above it.
08:33 --> 08:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody else on this list,
08:35 --> 08:38 [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of other guys across the game of baseball ever.
08:38 --> 08:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you talk about the greatest players to ever put on the uniform.
08:41 --> 08:44 [SPEAKER_01]: The first six guys are all Hall of Fame caliber players.
08:45 --> 08:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I would say five of the six are going to get in.
08:47 --> 08:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Three of them are already in.
08:49 --> 08:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I think Felix will get in.
08:50 --> 08:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Or sorry, four of them are already in with Randy.
08:52 --> 08:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Felix I now think's going to get in.
08:54 --> 08:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And A-Rod was it not for
08:57 --> 09:00 [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of bias that voters have toward P.E.D.'
09:00 --> 09:03 [SPEAKER_01]: 's, an aeroads a little different because he did get caught with them, but he's he's a whole of a player.
09:04 --> 09:05 [SPEAKER_01]: It's 700 homers.
09:05 --> 09:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So, those are all Hall of Fame players.
09:08 --> 09:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if the rest of this list and what they did with the Mariners is quite that.
09:12 --> 09:15 [SPEAKER_01]: There actually is another Hall of Famer on here, but it's just not.
09:15 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_01]: what he did with the Mariners.
09:16 --> 09:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, to stick on the top six for a second, I do want to ask you before we move on.
09:21 --> 09:24 [SPEAKER_01]: What had you put Felix at three over Edgar?
09:24 --> 09:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Was that the era we grew up in and getting to watch him?
09:27 --> 09:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Because he's one of my favorite Mariners of all time.
09:29 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and I get did get to watch him.
09:31 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Felix was the beacon even more than each or I think when we grew up.
09:36 --> 09:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
09:37 --> 09:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Felix means a hell of a lot to people are age because he essentially saved a lot of people's mariners fandom.
09:44 --> 09:48 [SPEAKER_01]: We grew up in a time period where there was nothing to root for.
09:48 --> 09:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there was no winning, there was no farm system, there was no sense of direction, anything.
09:54 --> 09:56 [SPEAKER_01]: They couldn't spend while they couldn't develop while they didn't win games.
09:57 --> 09:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And as a result of that,
09:59 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't have, they didn't have good seasons.
10:01 --> 10:04 [SPEAKER_01]: The one thing you could always lean on is every five days.
10:04 --> 10:07 [SPEAKER_01]: People are aged for bad as those teams always were.
10:08 --> 10:09 [SPEAKER_01]: You got Felix.
10:09 --> 10:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Every five days, you got to watch Felix Hernandez, pick up a baseball and dominate.
10:14 --> 10:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And he means a ton to me, to you, to again, a bunch of our friends, to a ton of people we know that are around our age.
10:20 --> 10:25 [SPEAKER_01]: If I was ever gonna go watch a Cooper's Town Hall fame ceremony and pay up the money to do it,
10:26 --> 10:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I think Felix is the guy I would consider pointing up the money to do it for.
10:30 --> 10:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we didn't go for Griffie, we didn't go for Edgar, we didn't go for each row as cool as those all would have been.
10:35 --> 10:37 [SPEAKER_01]: It Felix gets in, I may consider going.
10:38 --> 10:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And you do get, I guess bonus points for being the best at your position, which he is the best pitcher in Mariners franchise history.
10:46 --> 10:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why he's, that's why he's my number three.
10:48 --> 10:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
10:48 --> 10:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Now for Edgar, was it just like a war argument?
10:52 --> 10:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Pretty much.
10:54 --> 11:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I know we don't talk about a certain season from 30 years ago on this podcast because it's been absolutely overkilled and we want to focus on new memories, but there is an element here to objectively, he saved baseball in this city.
11:09 --> 11:12 [SPEAKER_01]: The Marie-Layer podcast may never exist if Edgar doesn't hit that double.
11:13 --> 11:13 [SPEAKER_01]: You all right?
11:14 --> 11:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Totally fair.
11:16 --> 11:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's a good top.
11:18 --> 11:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and for people that don't know that reference, most people do, but in case you don't, the Mariners almost lost the team after 95, they almost moved away, but they got just enough votes at the very, I mean, very tail end of that season and into the playoffs to keep the team in the city.
11:36 --> 11:40 [SPEAKER_00]: So if they're going to do that, it was the run to come back and win the AL West.
11:41 --> 11:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
11:42 --> 11:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
11:42 --> 11:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Right about that time to buy back.
11:45 --> 11:46 [SPEAKER_00]: People's interest.
11:46 --> 11:51 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think I got pushed over the top after beating the Yankees in the DS, which obviously was Edgar series.
11:52 --> 11:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.
11:53 --> 11:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's hear the rest of your top 10.
11:55 --> 11:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
11:55 --> 11:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to pivot one more time and do top 11 and after that, I will stay on course.
11:59 --> 12:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I put Jamie Moyer at 7, I know you had SIGER.
12:02 --> 12:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd say you're at 8, I'd say you're at 9, I've Julio at 10 and Cal at 11.
12:07 --> 12:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I have those two right next to each other.
12:09 --> 12:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So you just moved essentially Jamie Moyer up.
12:13 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_00]: uh, into where the rest of my top 10 was and bumped everyone else down one.
12:18 --> 12:22 [SPEAKER_00]: My the rest of my top 10, so I'd Kyle Seager at 7, Jb.
12:22 --> 12:27 [SPEAKER_00]: 8, Julio at 9, Calut 10, and then I had Robby can know at number 11.
12:28 --> 12:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Nice.
12:28 --> 12:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I only said Cal at 11 because I think Cal and Julio and me stacking them next to each other and you stacking them next to each other is a conversation in its own right, so I want to do that all in one, but I would say about those two while we're mentioning Cal and Julio.
12:43 --> 13:01 [SPEAKER_01]: The reason I've already put them so high, number one, because again, I am valuing like condensed dominance here, and those two, who Leo especially has done that, who Leo's first four seasons in a Mariners uniform, are unbelievable.
13:01 --> 13:02 [SPEAKER_01]: He's on pace to go to the Hall of Fame.
13:03 --> 13:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And to do that in a four-year stretch is better than just about everybody on this list can say,
13:09 --> 13:11 [SPEAKER_01]: that they put together in a Mariners uniform.
13:11 --> 13:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, look at where Julio already ranks all time in Mariners war through four years.
13:15 --> 13:15 [SPEAKER_01]: It's crazy.
13:16 --> 13:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And then Cal, obviously, has had three really good seasons and won unbelievable one.
13:22 --> 13:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And all that combined paired with since the two are obviously going to be here a long time.
13:26 --> 13:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I am doing some projecting here because we're doing this list in 2026.
13:31 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, they haven't had their stories fully written yet but you know that once their time comes to a conclusion
13:39 --> 13:58 [SPEAKER_00]: they may be a hell of a lot higher than ten and eleven i have projection bias with mine you'll notice this with some of the the players i include on this list i have to project out a little bit because they might not have the war totals yet but i think they will have it and it will might eventually land them higher on this list than they already are right now
13:58 --> 14:00 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, Calen Julio next to each other is right.
14:01 --> 14:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, so I have Julio at nine, Julio is going to be the ninth most valuable.
14:04 --> 14:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Or actually, sorry, he'll be the tenth most valuable player by war once he plays like a game this upcoming year.
14:10 --> 14:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's a pretty accurate spot for him and who one more Julio, one more Calen Julio season, honestly, might jump them both over.
14:18 --> 14:25 [SPEAKER_00]: J-Bunner and then two or three more seasons would put them ahead of Kyle Seager and only behind those famed top six.
14:25 --> 14:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, if Julio and Calbo dominate this next year, I may already have them seven and eight, behind the big six, they're that close.
14:34 --> 14:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So I know by war they won't quite be where Jamie Moyer is yet or Kyle Seeger is yet, but when you project and you take into account dominance in their prime over a condensed stretch, they just are doing things that most players on this list cannot say they've done for the franchise.
14:50 --> 14:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Jamie Moyer was great.
14:51 --> 14:53 [SPEAKER_01]: He was a huge part of the L1 team.
14:54 --> 14:57 [SPEAKER_01]: but it's not at the same level of dominant as those two.
14:58 --> 15:00 [SPEAKER_00]: He's more of the longevity play.
15:00 --> 15:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the same argument for as good as they were a Kyle Sieger and J. Buener.
15:05 --> 15:10 [SPEAKER_00]: They are two of the most tenured mariners who all were productive pretty much the entire time.
15:11 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_00]: There's some tenured mariners on here who weren't as productive, but did manage to accumulate a decent amount of war.
15:17 --> 15:18 [SPEAKER_00]: to get themselves on this list.
15:18 --> 15:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Kyle Seager and Jay Beuner had the longevity, but also the production to back up with it.
15:23 --> 15:26 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why, at least for now, they're ahead of those, too.
15:26 --> 15:33 [SPEAKER_00]: But there's a reason when you only have four seasons of a mid full major league baseball plan to your belt, you can only go so high.
15:33 --> 15:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
15:34 --> 15:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I guess Cal technically played in 21, but I think we're really just counting 22 through 25, because that's when Cal has become Cal Rally.
15:41 --> 15:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would not have been on this list if we were just thinking about his 2021 season.
15:45 --> 15:51 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, he was the third catcher on that team, but that's just, but yeah, how about you're 11 through 15?
15:51 --> 15:57 [SPEAKER_01]: So again, Cal was 11 and then after that, Brett Boons 12, Robinson, Kenos 13.
15:58 --> 15:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we differ on this a little bit.
15:59 --> 16:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I have Nelson Cruz at 14, and then I have my camera at 15.
16:02 --> 16:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're only two spots off for me, for Nelson Cruz.
16:06 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I think my camera might be, no, not quite as much.
16:11 --> 16:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So my 11 through 15, I've robbed you at 11.
16:13 --> 16:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Hims, he was great.
16:15 --> 16:19 [SPEAKER_00]: War totals back it up, very productive player for his time here in Seattle.
16:20 --> 16:32 [SPEAKER_00]: him signing that contract in Seattle in the midst of the most painful playoff drought, irrelevance, uninteresting players.
16:33 --> 16:36 [SPEAKER_00]: For him to choose Seattle in
16:36 --> 16:40 [SPEAKER_00]: hell of a lot of work to bump him up and change.
16:40 --> 16:42 [SPEAKER_01]: It changed everything.
16:42 --> 16:42 [SPEAKER_01]: It really did.
16:43 --> 16:50 [SPEAKER_01]: From 04 to 2013, that is as bad a 10-year stretch of baseball as you can just about find from any franchise.
16:50 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_01]: That is a brutal, miserable 10-year stretch.
16:55 --> 17:02 [SPEAKER_01]: When Robbie signed in Seattle, has there been a year since, Sam's 2019 when they were truly tearing it down.
17:02 --> 17:04 [SPEAKER_01]: that they were uncompetitive.
17:05 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_01]: I know they haven't made the playoffs a lot of those years.
17:07 --> 17:09 [SPEAKER_01]: They weren't even necessarily always 500 all those years.
17:10 --> 17:12 [SPEAKER_01]: But did you ever go into a season 2014 and on?
17:13 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Where you said, this team's gonna suck.
17:15 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going into the year with no hope.
17:17 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_01]: No, Robbie changed that.
17:20 --> 17:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
17:21 --> 17:22 [SPEAKER_00]: They just never meant playoffs.
17:22 --> 17:23 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no.
17:23 --> 17:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, there's a lot of years since then they haven't been in the playoffs, but we went into 14 and 15 and 16 and 17 and 18 all before they started to rebuild or call it whatever you wanted to call it.
17:36 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_01]: They called it stepping back.
17:38 --> 17:41 [SPEAKER_01]: In those five years, you would hope every year, and that's started with Robbie.
17:42 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_01]: That wouldn't have happened without Robbie, and again, that's when the culture started to change a little bit where they went from just
17:50 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, laughing stock at the league for 10 years to, I mean, I guess I know nine, they won 85 games, but again, they, you know, they got a little lucky that year.
17:59 --> 18:04 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what it all changed to having serious hope around here with the Mariners was Ronnie.
18:05 --> 18:06 [SPEAKER_01]: 2014 and on, that's been the case.
18:07 --> 18:08 [SPEAKER_00]: The rest of my 11 through 15.
18:08 --> 18:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So I have Jamie Moyer number 12.
18:11 --> 18:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I've Freddie Garcia at number 13.
18:13 --> 18:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I've Logan Gilbert all the way up at number 14 already.
18:17 --> 18:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Do it a little bit of projecting there.
18:18 --> 18:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I've Brett Boone at number 15.
18:20 --> 18:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Hotest take I would say is Logan Gilbert.
18:23 --> 18:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Freddie earned himself up there.
18:24 --> 18:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Freddie said had a great Mariners career.
18:27 --> 18:36 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the, one of the handful best Mariners starters of all time and was the best picture on the best team this franchise has ever fielded.
18:36 --> 18:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Logan, among the current crop of guys, not only has he been in the big leagues longest, he has shown the best season out of all of them, and he has shown with his
18:51 --> 19:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Variety of stuff the most project ability as well as long as he stays healthy He's gonna go out there and he's gonna throw a hundred and eighty to two hundred innings strike out close to two hundred batters And potentially lead the league in innings have an area of three and a half or lower and Just be go out there and be a workhorse.
19:11 --> 19:12 [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's pretty valuable.
19:12 --> 19:16 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't have I have a lot of workhorse is who have the kind of stuff that he has us
19:16 --> 19:17 [SPEAKER_00]: that he has.
19:18 --> 19:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I have Logan lower.
19:19 --> 19:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll get to him in a minute, but I didn't quite have him where you had him.
19:23 --> 19:27 [SPEAKER_01]: In terms of my top 15 guys, like the 11 through 15 range.
19:28 --> 19:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I really have any hot takes in there again.
19:30 --> 19:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I've bred Boon at 12 who an O1 had about as good of a year as any second basement could ever had in a Mariners uniform.
19:36 --> 19:37 [SPEAKER_01]: He nearly won the MVP.
19:38 --> 19:49 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you remember, if you go back and listen to our interview with Booney and we had him on twice, but in one of them, he talks about that he gave HR a hard time saying, that MVP's better than mine in O1.
19:49 --> 19:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Because he won the team MVP.
19:51 --> 19:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, I mean, and he jokes about it with each row.
19:54 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he's actually like still mad about it today.
19:56 --> 19:59 [SPEAKER_01]: But the point was, he was amazing in that 01 season.
19:59 --> 20:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And in those couple years in Seattle, even when he came back, he was miraculous.
20:04 --> 20:06 [SPEAKER_01]: He was arguably the best second basement in the league.
20:06 --> 20:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Over that stretch of time.
20:08 --> 20:14 [SPEAKER_01]: But then after that, yeah, we talked about Robbie, who I had at 13 Nelson Cruz at 14, Mike Cameron at 15.
20:14 --> 20:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, talking about this condensed success.
20:17 --> 20:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Nelson Cruz played four years in a Mariners uniform.
20:20 --> 20:25 [SPEAKER_01]: He won help change the culture along with Robby, where they start to legitimately get competitive.
20:25 --> 20:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Nelson Cruz also doesn't come here without Robby here.
20:27 --> 20:28 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no way.
20:29 --> 20:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And those four years were hard to win an MVP as a DH, but those were as dominant of DH seasons over a four-year stretch is you can about drop
20:44 --> 20:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Sands Edgar for the Mariners.
20:45 --> 20:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you want to pull up Nelson Cruz's numbers by year in Seattle.
20:50 --> 20:51 [SPEAKER_01]: He was flat out.
20:52 --> 21:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Observe, his OPS by year in Seattle was 936, 915, 924, and then a drop way down, way down to 850 in his final year.
21:03 --> 21:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So like by OPS plus, he was,
21:06 --> 21:13 [SPEAKER_01]: 59% of average, 47% of average, 49% of average, 35% of average.
21:13 --> 21:14 [SPEAKER_01]: He was amazing.
21:15 --> 21:19 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the most productive players they've ever signed.
21:19 --> 21:20 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the best free agents they've ever signed.
21:20 --> 21:29 [SPEAKER_00]: You can argue that's the best free agent deal that I've ever had.
21:30 --> 21:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So Nelly for me, if we're going to go to 16 by 20, he's right behind where I had where you have him.
21:35 --> 21:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I have met number 16.
21:38 --> 21:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see if this is a hot take.
21:39 --> 21:40 [SPEAKER_00]: This might be a hot take to a lot of people.
21:40 --> 21:42 [SPEAKER_00]: They watch and play every single day.
21:43 --> 21:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Right behind Nelson Cruz in number 17, Lyle, I have JP Crawford.
21:47 --> 21:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I have Alvin Davis in number 18, I have Mark Langston at number 19 and number 20 of Adrian Beltre.
21:54 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people here, I have I haven't read our comments.
21:57 --> 22:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Well here, let me read mine really quick.
22:00 --> 22:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
22:00 --> 22:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Good money.
22:01 --> 22:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not that different.
22:03 --> 22:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I have JP at 20, but I have John O'Rude at 16, Alvin Davis at 17, Freddie Garcia at 18, Mark Mark Langston at 19, JP at 20.
22:12 --> 22:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
22:13 --> 22:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Mark.
22:14 --> 22:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Mark Langston.
22:14 --> 22:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So we have him in the same spot.
22:17 --> 22:18 [SPEAKER_00]: JP Groverden.
22:19 --> 22:24 [SPEAKER_00]: is the 13th most valuable player in Mariners franchise history pitchers or hitters my war.
22:25 --> 22:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So where are you supposed to rank him?
22:27 --> 22:33 [SPEAKER_00]: He's done everything you want as a player who's been here, right?
22:34 --> 22:42 [SPEAKER_01]: He has, I think where I put somebody like Oru to head of him, for example, is again talking about me valuing the condensed success.
22:43 --> 22:46 [SPEAKER_01]: John Oru had back to back five or four seasons in a Mariners uniform.
22:46 --> 22:51 [SPEAKER_01]: JP's had one, he had the one really dominant year in 23, and then otherwise he's been
22:51 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_01]: steady.
22:52 --> 22:53 [SPEAKER_01]: It's been here a long time.
22:54 --> 22:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Good player.
22:55 --> 22:59 [SPEAKER_01]: But he's had one really good all-star caliber year and then otherwise it's been steady.
23:00 --> 23:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Where I thought Ulru was more dominant, he's also been on some really important teams like the O1 Mariners team, or he was an all-star on that team.
23:07 --> 23:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And just he provided more impact over those condensed years at such a high level that I put on my head.
23:15 --> 23:20 [SPEAKER_01]: It was the same idea with my camera and say like that four-year stretch, he was putting up five more seasons.
23:20 --> 23:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Mark Langston is better than people probably remember our age because people didn't watch him.
23:25 --> 23:28 [SPEAKER_01]: He was too old for us to
23:28 --> 23:29 [SPEAKER_01]: ever grow up with them.
23:29 --> 23:35 [SPEAKER_01]: But honestly, I took into account the fact that he was traded for Randy Johnson and I'd help get him to Seattle.
23:36 --> 23:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Like a little bit, not the whole way, but a little bit saying he was really good and then he helped get Randy Johnson here.
23:42 --> 23:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's where I put him where I put him.
23:45 --> 23:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And then yeah, so that's why J.P. is 20.
23:47 --> 23:51 [SPEAKER_01]: It's split in hairs, but I just took
23:51 --> 23:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I just took that season by season success pretty serious.
23:55 --> 23:58 [SPEAKER_00]: The tiebreaker for you is condensed success.
24:00 --> 24:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
24:00 --> 24:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
24:00 --> 24:01 [SPEAKER_00]: That's fair.
24:01 --> 24:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's fair.
24:02 --> 24:07 [SPEAKER_00]: GP has had some, as you mentioned, condensed success, but not as much as the other guys.
24:07 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_00]: The position, the positional adjustment, helps him a little bit, even if you hate his shortstop defense these days, like us.
24:13 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_00]: He did use to be a good defensive shortstop, which helps him out a little bit, he's going to go glove in the past.
24:19 --> 24:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, I think the main summary of that, I don't think people would have much of a problem with.
24:24 --> 24:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Mark Langston in the top 20, and I don't think people have a problem with Alvin Davis in the top 20, definitely not a problem with Nelson Cruz in the top 20, but I already know.
24:31 --> 24:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I know this for a fact, Lyle, they're going to be people in our comments who won't like the fact, JP Crawford's the top 20 mayor and her all time.
24:38 --> 24:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It's honestly not even much of a question.
24:40 --> 24:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how you could argue it.
24:42 --> 24:52 [SPEAKER_00]: He, by most value metrics for JP, games played, the position he plays, the era he's played in, and then the war numbers to back it up.
24:53 --> 25:19 [SPEAKER_00]: it's kind of a hard argument to make him for him not being a top 20 mariner well he ranks 10th among all position players in war right yeah the top 20 among all players to his 13th among all players aka nine position players and three pitchers yeah he's a top 10 mariner or top 20 mariner what do you want to tell you again by war you're right he's 13
25:19 --> 25:20 [SPEAKER_01]: he is really good.
25:20 --> 25:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, he's been here a while now, and he's had one really dominant year, but just about every season he's played in Seattle, he has been a productive player.
25:30 --> 25:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And you extrapolate that and say, yes, he deserves to be where he is.
25:34 --> 25:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And Belcher is a guy who I have at number 20.
25:37 --> 25:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's mentioned this here on the podcast before.
25:40 --> 25:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know who realized how good he was when he was here.
25:43 --> 25:50 [SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't as good as he was in other places, which is where maybe some of the salt comes in, especially when you were watching him at the time.
25:50 --> 25:53 [SPEAKER_00]: But he still was a pretty productive player here in Seattle, enough to earn himself.
25:54 --> 25:56 [SPEAKER_00]: My spot is the number 20 player of all time.
25:56 --> 26:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, if he had played like he did with his last year with the Dodgers before they signed him, or his time with the Rangers when he became a whole of Famer, clearly, I mean, he'd be in the top 10 pretty easily, and the Mariners might have not let him walk out the door.
26:11 --> 26:13 [SPEAKER_00]: But he is still pretty good player in Seattle.
26:13 --> 26:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, he's number 20.
26:15 --> 26:17 [SPEAKER_00]: He's 21 on my list.
26:17 --> 26:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
26:18 --> 26:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So 21 through 25 after you say your thing.
26:22 --> 26:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, I might talk belt tray here and then go because 22 through 25, I'm definitely gonna have to talk through.
26:29 --> 26:37 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, it's funny as kids, I don't know exactly how you view them growing up because obviously we didn't know each other at that age when Delta Tray was in Seattle.
26:38 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_01]: But my view of them was always,
26:39 --> 26:52 [SPEAKER_01]: wasn't good, underperform, disappointing, and then once you actually start to grow up and get into the numbers and start to dive into the career, you realize, yeah, he wasn't quite the guy they paid him to be, offensively, let's say.
26:53 --> 27:01 [SPEAKER_01]: He was not the offensive player they were expecting him to be, but by war, he still played phenomenal defense and was very valuable.
27:02 --> 27:19 [SPEAKER_01]: 3.2, 5.4, 3.8, 5.6, 3.3, which is crazy because his war was that high, even in spite of looking at his numbers in Seattle, like the 5.6 warrior, the year, in a way, he had a 109 OPS+.
27:20 --> 27:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is what I mean.
27:21 --> 27:27 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not the Adrian Beltre offensively that's in the Hall of Fame, and that's where people were left disappointed a lot of the time.
27:27 --> 27:31 [SPEAKER_01]: But as the game has progressed and modernized and people have become more
27:32 --> 27:52 [SPEAKER_01]: educated on a lot of the numbers you realize even if you didn't do offensively what you wanted him to it's not like he didn't provide value because he did and those few years it was here he was still really good yeah you're right so what the like the the thing for Mariners fancy comes off that season with the Dodgers when he had 48 home runs he had a 163 OPS plus
27:52 --> 28:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I've not really hitting much of his career, and up until he got to the Rangers, that was his like one outlier season, because what the Dodgers, his career high OPS plus before that O4 season, was 114, and then he goes 163, in fact, he was a blow-league average chitter for most of the time.
28:09 --> 28:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And it was the same thing with the Mariners.
28:10 --> 28:16 [SPEAKER_00]: It went 93, 105, 112, 109, 83.
28:16 --> 28:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he goes to the Rangers' reactions about 140.
28:18 --> 28:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, he changed a little bit.
28:22 --> 28:30 [SPEAKER_01]: If you look just by OPS for BellTrace career, he had a career 794 OPS with the Dodgers, so not even 800, despite that miraculous year.
28:30 --> 28:41 [SPEAKER_01]: With the Mariners, he had a career OPS of 759, and then with the Rangers, he had a career 865 OPS and put up 41 War, which is what got him into the Hall of Fame.
28:42 --> 28:50 [SPEAKER_00]: very, very deserving, despite his offensive, the lack of offense he had when he was in Seattle of being a top 20 mariner for me.
28:50 --> 28:51 [SPEAKER_00]: 21-50.
28:51 --> 28:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so after 21, where I had belt drive, I had has Sasha Iwakuma 22.
28:56 --> 29:00 [SPEAKER_01]: This is where I have Logan Gilbert, which is 23.
29:00 --> 29:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I have Eric Hansen at 24.
29:03 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And here's another.
29:05 --> 29:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Number 25, Andre's Munoz.
29:09 --> 29:15 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a huge gap in Iwakuma, huge, hmm.
29:15 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_00]: You'll see where I have him, but he is, he's nowhere close to where you, you had him 22.
29:20 --> 29:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I did.
29:21 --> 29:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, yeah, big gap.
29:24 --> 29:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, my 21 through 22, our 20, 21 through 25, of my camera number 21, JJ puts a number 22, John Orude at number 23, Louise Castillo at number 24 in George Kirby at number 25.
29:38 --> 29:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh wow.
29:39 --> 29:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Say you're less one more time.
29:40 --> 29:49 [SPEAKER_00]: The 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 22, JJ puts 23 John O'Road, 24 Luis Castillo, 25 George Kirby.
29:50 --> 29:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
29:51 --> 29:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, I'm talking about this year over year success with these players.
29:55 --> 29:58 [SPEAKER_01]: As Sasha Iwakuma had one of the best singular seasons in Mariners history.
29:58 --> 30:02 [SPEAKER_01]: He had a seven-war season, and the year he finished third in Saigon voting.
30:02 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And aside from that, he never had a year like that again, but he was really good.
30:06 --> 30:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're talking about a guy who was a consistently top of the rotation picture when he was here.
30:11 --> 30:13 [SPEAKER_01]: For the first four years, he was an ERA.
30:13 --> 30:38 [SPEAKER_01]: that he was an ERA guy that always sat in about the mid threes and by total war in team histories 23rd so having him a 22 when he's 23rd and team war feels like it actually lines up pretty decently but again when when you dominate like that I feel like you've got to give the guy his props and it wasn't like he had a four or five worst season he had a seven worst season and when you do that you say to yourself
30:38 --> 30:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can't put them in the 40s.
30:41 --> 30:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't put them in the low 30s.
30:42 --> 30:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Like this guy was over a short time period, a top end starter for the Mariners.
30:47 --> 30:48 [SPEAKER_01]: It was him and Felix.
30:48 --> 30:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I'm gonna put him at number 22.
30:52 --> 30:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Where'd you say ranked?
30:53 --> 30:55 [SPEAKER_00]: You said 23rd all time.
30:56 --> 30:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Pretty sure.
30:58 --> 30:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Do I have that right?
30:59 --> 31:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, all time Mariners by war says 23 as Sasha, I would cum a 16.9.
31:07 --> 31:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so this might have been one of my oversights on my list.
31:11 --> 31:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Why, well, I brought this through.
31:13 --> 31:16 [SPEAKER_00]: You'll see where I have him ranked and I'm not going to change it.
31:16 --> 31:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Just let people shred me in the comments very good.
31:19 --> 31:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I think your, your rationale is perfectly solid for your, for your guys, totally.
31:26 --> 31:33 [SPEAKER_00]: For mine, I have JJ puts over Andre's Munoz because JJ puts was more productive.
31:33 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think he has the single best relief season in Mariners history.
31:38 --> 31:45 [SPEAKER_00]: That in 22 Munoz are probably pretty close, but JJ puts his 07 season was.
31:45 --> 31:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Pretty historic.
31:46 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_01]: You've got to put 2018 Edwin Diaz in with those season and 2018 Edwin Diaz.
31:50 --> 31:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, who is on here?
31:52 --> 32:12 [SPEAKER_01]: But not not as high as JJ puts because JJ puts among all those guys has was the most valuable as a mariner So I have munoz over those guys because over this four-year stretch, nobody Has dominated out of a bullpen like munoz has and he's been on two teams that were playoff teams JJ puts never made the playoffs with the marinners and
32:12 --> 32:19 [SPEAKER_01]: His four years were overall really good, but he had two truly dominant seasons with one being about his dominant as you can get.
32:20 --> 32:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And the other two were, they were fine.
32:23 --> 32:24 [SPEAKER_01]: They were fine years.
32:24 --> 32:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Where Munoz is four years here.
32:27 --> 32:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's unprecedented.
32:29 --> 32:36 [SPEAKER_01]: It would take a lot for any Mariners' reliever, anytime in the next 10 years, to mirror what Munoz has done over these four years.
32:36 --> 32:38 [SPEAKER_01]: The ERA, 249, 294, 212, 173.
32:39 --> 32:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Like he hasn't had one year in those four years with a ERA sitting at three year above, and he's been the closer for two playoff teams.
32:47 --> 32:56 [SPEAKER_00]: To be fair, I don't think there's much gap between 22 or I have JJ puts and where I have Andre's Munoz who's within the next five after this.
32:57 --> 33:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I get one in this case I took the one dominant season.
33:01 --> 33:01 [SPEAKER_01]: That's fair.
33:02 --> 33:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And because Muno still has three more years under team control, I'm projecting a little bit here too, saying if he continues to do this, he's only going to move up the list.
33:10 --> 33:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Where having Logan Gilbert at 23, which is another place we have a real gap, I have Logan at 23 because when you talk about projecting, which I obviously did with Julio and Cal,
33:22 --> 33:33 [SPEAKER_01]: a big thing here was those guys are guaranteed to get a lot more seasons in a Mariners uniform and continue to rack up their career totals and success in Seattle where they're only going to move up the list.
33:33 --> 33:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Logan Gilbert as we sit here is not extended yet.
33:36 --> 33:48 [SPEAKER_01]: He's got two more years and right now while he has been the ace of this Mariners rotation over the last couple years, I mean, you go season by season and he.
33:48 --> 33:53 [SPEAKER_01]: He's been really good, but he hasn't had that one Ewakuma type dominate year.
33:53 --> 33:59 [SPEAKER_01]: So his B-war over the last four years is 3, 2, 2, 8, 2, 8, 2, 1.
34:00 --> 34:03 [SPEAKER_01]: So he's been good and also not extended.
34:03 --> 34:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So it was hard for me to put him in the top 15 because of that.
34:07 --> 34:09 [SPEAKER_01]: If he had an extension, I probably would have had him higher.
34:09 --> 34:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Not even that 20, 24 season.
34:13 --> 34:14 [SPEAKER_01]: which was really good.
34:14 --> 34:20 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you want to go by ERA in his time in Seattle, he threw 200 aid innings, which was amazing.
34:20 --> 34:21 [SPEAKER_01]: He led baseball innings pitch that year.
34:22 --> 34:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And he had a 323 ERA, his tip was 327.
34:25 --> 34:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So, of mirrored, 2022 in his first full season,
34:30 --> 34:38 [SPEAKER_01]: He had in 185 innings, so about 20 less, a 320 ERA, a little bit lower, 346 bit higher.
34:39 --> 34:47 [SPEAKER_01]: So I know he really broke out in terms of his development of his pitch types in 24 and just the ability to throw 200 innings and really lead a rotation.
34:48 --> 34:51 [SPEAKER_01]: But by overall value, it's not there yet.
34:51 --> 34:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, and he's not extended.
34:53 --> 34:54 [SPEAKER_01]: He's not extended yet.
34:54 --> 34:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So they're point fair rationale For Castio and Kirby.
34:58 --> 35:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I'm projecting a little bit too Castio still technically under contract for a little bit longer Been here as much as Logan for me at least because I haven't met 24 and then Kirby at 25.
35:08 --> 35:17 [SPEAKER_00]: He's got an extra year of control Then Logan Gilbert does both those guys are There for me because of their projection
35:17 --> 35:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So they're projection and that they've just been they've been here each for at least three full seasons now And if had been able to produce it that marks.
35:24 --> 35:28 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I have those guys there But I maybe I'm just higher on Logan Gilbert.
35:29 --> 35:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It might be or maybe I'm holding out a tiny bit of hope that he's gonna sign an extension Fair yeah Kirby's lower on my list, which is not a knock on him.
35:37 --> 35:39 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just He needs more time.
35:40 --> 35:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't explain later, but
35:42 --> 35:52 [SPEAKER_01]: If we're going to go through 26 through 30, the guys in this slot for me are Mitch Hanager 26, I've Mike more at 27 who we didn't really get to watch for too young.
35:53 --> 35:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Raul at 28, Raul alabanias, Harold Reynolds at 29 and Luis at 30, Luis Castillo.
35:59 --> 36:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I have Raul at 26.
36:01 --> 36:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I have Harold Reynolds at 27.
36:04 --> 36:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I've James Paxton at 28.
36:07 --> 36:08 [SPEAKER_00]: James Paxton at 28.
36:08 --> 36:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Andre's Moon, Jose 29 and Dan Wilson at number 30.
36:12 --> 36:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Isn't it weird to say James Paxton at 28?
36:18 --> 36:22 [SPEAKER_01]: No, because as you pointed out, how many pictures have had 12 or careers with the Mariners?
36:23 --> 36:25 [SPEAKER_00]: He's 12th in pitcher war and Mariners history.
36:25 --> 36:28 [SPEAKER_00]: He's one
36:29 --> 36:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of crazy, because James Paxton had like one really dominant season with the Mariners and
36:39 --> 37:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Those are what it was, it might have been more than one, but he, it was on and off a little bit for him, but given how is like career starting, it was a little bit up and down, and then all of a sudden he comes in, he's throwing, throwing gas, and it manages to cobble together some really, really productive innings, the land him on here, kind of flies under the radar a little bit, I think, that was terrible analysis, by the way, terrible analysis.
37:09 --> 37:36 [SPEAKER_00]: are you about to say something else you're like oh no I was just double I was just double checking my work on on packs and yeah I mean the the the the the years that given the most buoy here are as 2017 and 2018 seasons if you remember he came back up in 2016 and really kind of broke on to the scene as like he dropped his arm slot a little bit and started throwing a lot harder than he did in the past and I think that really like catapulted him up.
37:37 --> 37:46 [SPEAKER_00]: but though, but those two seasons like, or I think higher by war than what Logan had done for what you're reading off, cause he hasn't hit a three, six, four season in there.
37:48 --> 37:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
37:48 --> 37:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I guess with these guys, again, talking about a dominant season, Hanager in 2018, had a six and a half four season.
37:57 --> 38:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And then paired with you with here awhile, obviously spent a lot of it injured, but what he did in both 18,
38:04 --> 38:05 [SPEAKER_01]: 17 when he was on the field.
38:05 --> 38:11 [SPEAKER_01]: He was on pace for a great year in 17 too, but then he had that oblique thing diving back into first base and Detroit.
38:11 --> 38:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And he missed a bunch of time.
38:13 --> 38:24 [SPEAKER_01]: But between those two years in 17 and 18, and then what he did in 21 with the near 40 homers and willing an offense that was really bad at no business being anywhere near the playoffs, almost get into the playoffs that year.
38:24 --> 38:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So
38:26 --> 38:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I had him up in 26 and his war total mirrors close to that.
38:31 --> 38:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Mike Moore at 27.
38:32 --> 38:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he had some good years, but it's hard to give that much analysis on him because we didn't get to watch him.
38:38 --> 38:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And then Luis Castillo at 30, you had him a little bit higher.
38:41 --> 38:50 [SPEAKER_01]: He still got to accumulate some more year over year value for me, because again, he had a one really good year where he finished fifth and psi on voting.
38:51 --> 39:12 [SPEAKER_01]: He had the 2022 season when he came over, which honestly, I think helps propel him a little bit because talking about changing cultures and going from good to great, Castillo helped that because I don't think that 2022 team gets into the playoffs if you don't trade for Luis Castillo and trading for Luis Castillo really showed that whole team and the whole city and the whole fan base.
39:12 --> 39:13 [SPEAKER_01]: that they're in that year.
39:13 --> 39:14 [SPEAKER_01]: They're going for it.
39:14 --> 39:16 [SPEAKER_01]: They're serious about winning.
39:16 --> 39:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And Castillo came here and delivered everything you could have expected him to in 22.
39:21 --> 39:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think over the next couple of years, if he has a couple more good seasons, and as at least consistent in a mid-threasy RA guy that he'll move up on the list, but for now I haven't had 30.
39:32 --> 39:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And
39:34 --> 39:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm okay with the way I rank that list role obviously had a few really good offensive seasons that probably gets slept on because he wasn't on teams in that stretch that made the playoffs but yeah.
39:45 --> 39:46 [SPEAKER_00]: What about your 31 to 35?
39:46 --> 39:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, here we go.
39:47 --> 39:49 [SPEAKER_00]: We can go through these a little bit quicker now.
39:50 --> 39:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say I'm sitting here looking at 25 or 26 or 30 and we're now at the back half of the list.
39:55 --> 39:57 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, how much analysis can I give on all this?
39:57 --> 40:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, oh, wait, this is where it all starts to become a jumble.
40:00 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm sitting here in real time, starting to analyze.
40:02 --> 40:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you realize, yeah, guys, it's all a crap shoot at this point.
40:05 --> 40:07 [SPEAKER_01]: You can rank it however you want.
40:07 --> 40:09 [SPEAKER_01]: 20 or 31 through 35.
40:09 --> 40:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I have Jim Beatty, followed by Floyd Bannister at 32, Franklin Gutierrez at 33, Dan Wilson at 34, JJ puts at 35.
40:18 --> 40:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I have Floyd Bannister at 31, Eric Hansen at 32.
40:21 --> 40:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Get this, you're gonna love this one, Lyle.
40:23 --> 40:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Brian Wu at 33.
40:25 --> 40:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Franklin Goodyear is at 34 in Jeff Nelson at 35.
40:28 --> 40:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Brian Wu, total projection, total projection for his future.
40:33 --> 40:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Because he's in reality, he's pitched eight great months for the Mariners.
40:40 --> 40:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It was the last two months of 2024, and then the six great months he put on in 2025.
40:47 --> 41:02 [SPEAKER_00]: That was enough right there to put him at 33 and the difference between him and Bryce Miller is I think who's ascension in 2025 is a little greater than Bryce's ascension in 2024 and full transparency.
41:02 --> 41:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll say it right now.
41:03 --> 41:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Bryce Miller did not make my top 50 but Brian moved for me as all the way up at number 33.
41:09 --> 41:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to put Wu so much higher than I did, but I figured I was going to get flamed about not giving respect to the old school guys.
41:16 --> 41:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So Wu's a little further down on the list is badly as I wanted to project way high and rank a much higher.
41:21 --> 41:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't quite do that.
41:24 --> 41:29 [SPEAKER_01]: But I guess I'd say with this 31 through 35 stretch, again, JJ puts it 35.
41:29 --> 41:35 [SPEAKER_01]: He had the most dominant singular reliefs in Mariners history, certainly by war.
41:36 --> 41:39 [SPEAKER_01]: But he had two really good years and two fine ones.
41:40 --> 41:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's why Admonio's much higher than puts, but puts is still in the top 50.
41:43 --> 41:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay?
41:45 --> 41:46 [SPEAKER_00]: What about the next five for you?
41:47 --> 41:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I had Edwin D as at 36, because it was a similar idea between, so with him and puts, I stacked them back to back because I thought it was similar, where they had one truly unbelievable season.
41:57 --> 42:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Warick here that long, each of them.
42:00 --> 42:08 [SPEAKER_01]: But in that stretch, we're really good pitchers, also taking into account the fact that it's hard to grade relievers because their war totals are never going to be as high as the other guys.
42:08 --> 42:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So Edwin Diaz at 36, James packs in at 37, a Kazinger is a Saki at 38.
42:14 --> 42:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So all these relievers are pretty much in a bunch.
42:16 --> 42:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Julio Cruz at 39, and then Phil Bradley at 40.
42:20 --> 42:21 [SPEAKER_00]: This is where I'm probably going to end up flamed.
42:22 --> 42:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I had Diaz at 36, I had Marco at 37.
42:27 --> 42:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd Arthur Rhodes at 38.
42:28 --> 42:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd associate you with Kuma at 39 and had Mitch Hanager at 40.
42:34 --> 42:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, I didn't have Marco, or Arthur Rhodes, or Jeff Nelson on my list.
42:39 --> 42:39 [SPEAKER_01]: How about that?
42:41 --> 42:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Groping Marco, Ewakuma and Mitch Hanager together, I think is going to get me some flack.
42:48 --> 42:49 [SPEAKER_00]: But it is what it is.
42:49 --> 42:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I made the list.
42:50 --> 42:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll take it.
42:51 --> 42:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Do I have great justifications?
42:54 --> 42:54 [SPEAKER_00]: not really.
42:54 --> 43:01 [SPEAKER_00]: They were all very productive Mariners for at some points, very productive Mariners teams, Sansy Wakuma.
43:01 --> 43:11 [SPEAKER_00]: All had great individual seasons, both were here for a decent amount of time, which have earned themselves within the top 40 greatest Mariners of all time.
43:12 --> 43:19 [SPEAKER_00]: But like Lyle said, it's pretty jumbled at this point, the gap between honestly number 30 and number 50 is pretty minuscule.
43:21 --> 43:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I'm with that.
43:23 --> 43:35 [SPEAKER_01]: So, then we get down to number 41 through 45 and there's definitely some familiar names on here for people because these are a lot of current guys.
43:36 --> 43:41 [SPEAKER_01]: I have George Kirby at 41, I Brian Wu at 42, so I stack them right back to back.
43:42 --> 43:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Ken Phelps at 43, what the hell is your trade JB uniform?
43:45 --> 43:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Ken Phelps, Ken Phelps.
43:48 --> 43:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you Henny Oswara as ranks 44 on my list?
43:51 --> 43:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
43:52 --> 43:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And then Jose Lopez is 45.
43:53 --> 43:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I have Mike Moore at 41.
43:56 --> 43:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Some of we did not get to watch.
43:58 --> 43:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Pitch back in the 80s and 90s.
44:00 --> 44:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Ken Phelps at 42.
44:01 --> 44:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I had Jared Washburn at 43.
44:05 --> 44:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Jose Lopez at 44 and Dave Valley gets a bit of a positional bump and number 45.
44:12 --> 44:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to go right to Gino here.
44:14 --> 44:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's my reasoning.
44:16 --> 44:17 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just the good vibes only.
44:18 --> 44:20 [SPEAKER_01]: But when you look at what Gino did with the Mariners, right?
44:21 --> 44:22 [SPEAKER_01]: You have Jose Lopez on your list?
44:23 --> 44:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Jose and I have him on mine, too.
44:26 --> 44:28 [SPEAKER_01]: But Jose Lopez first career in a Mariners uniform.
44:29 --> 44:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Put up 10 more?
44:32 --> 44:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Gino essentially had seven, if you want to be exact, it's 10, 2 and 6, 8.
44:36 --> 44:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a three and a half word difference.
44:38 --> 44:40 [SPEAKER_01]: While Lopez was here a whole lot longer.
44:40 --> 44:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And Gino was again a part of two incredibly important mariner teams, both of which went to the playoffs.
44:48 --> 44:51 [SPEAKER_01]: He was a four-win player in 22 and helped anchor that offense.
44:51 --> 44:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And then he has the most historic moment in the history of the franchise, with the grand slam this past year.
44:56 --> 45:01 [SPEAKER_01]: So when you combine all that, he's on the list.
45:02 --> 45:09 [SPEAKER_00]: In terms of analysis with mine, I don't really have, this is where I'm kind of just thrown it together Of roughly guys.
45:09 --> 45:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I did not have Gino on my list, and maybe that's my fault, but Lyle had a big the big hit he had in Game 5 of the LCS boosting him.
45:18 --> 45:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Pretty good justification I didn't, I ultimately did not decide that was enough for him to be on my list.
45:26 --> 45:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, as great as he is Don't think that was it for me
45:30 --> 45:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I stacked woo and Kirby back to back, or I should say Kirby and woo back to back 41 and 42.
45:36 --> 45:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Kirby's thrown the one extra year, so I gave him a little bit of a nod.
45:39 --> 45:41 [SPEAKER_01]: He's got more counting stats.
45:41 --> 45:46 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think those two are similar in the sense of neither extended yet.
45:46 --> 45:49 [SPEAKER_01]: So again, you don't know how long they're gonna put on the Mariner uniform.
45:50 --> 45:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And then with Kirby and woo, both of them have one top 10 psi young finish and one all star game.
45:57 --> 45:59 [SPEAKER_01]: So each of them have one year that
45:59 --> 46:01 [SPEAKER_01]: more or less sits above the rest of them.
46:02 --> 46:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And otherwise, just have more projectability to go.
46:05 --> 46:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure by the time each of them are done in a Mariners uniform, whenever that is, each of them will be higher on the list.
46:11 --> 46:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Woo especially, because he looks like a few stays healthy.
46:14 --> 46:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he may give Logan a run for his money in terms of who's going to be the ace of the staff.
46:20 --> 46:21 [SPEAKER_01]: It could be Brian Woo this year.
46:21 --> 46:23 [SPEAKER_01]: He does what he does again in 26.
46:24 --> 46:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, then Hill have had more dominant years that, well, we'll see, because we'll see what Logan does this year too.
46:29 --> 46:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Because Logan's had the one true dominant one, too, which was probably 24, and then otherwise if you really good years.
46:36 --> 46:44 [SPEAKER_01]: All of them are in similar buckets, and I had Logan a little bit higher, because he's helped really anchor the rotation, and he's thrown so many innings.
46:44 --> 46:51 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, Kirby and Wu, I put back to back with some projectability there for both of them.
46:54 --> 46:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I said Jose Lopez was 45.
46:55 --> 46:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so here come the final five.
46:57 --> 47:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I have, this is where it really gets crazy because you could put anybody here.
47:01 --> 47:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Joe L. Pinieros 46, Mark Oganzales is 47, Aaron Ceeleys 48, Mike Zenino is 49 on the list.
47:14 --> 47:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's go Zee, and then Bryce Miller's number 50.
47:18 --> 47:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Right at 50, I had the whole Mariners rotation on this list.
47:22 --> 47:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I have Julio Cruz at number 46.
47:24 --> 47:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I have Tino Martinez, number 47, his great 95 season, being a crucial part of that team that's a baseball in the city, earn some self away onto my list.
47:36 --> 47:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Mike Sinino at number 48 for me.
47:39 --> 47:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Tom Wilhelm said at number 49, the bartender, not a closer role in the consistently most great relievers, they had for a multi-year stretch.
47:49 --> 47:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And then at number 50, one of the greatest manners that has ever suited up for the team, but he just wasn't here that long.
47:58 --> 47:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I have Cliff Lee.
48:00 --> 48:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if people are going to try and cook you for that one.
48:04 --> 48:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Cliff Lee?
48:06 --> 48:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
48:08 --> 48:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Look, he was worth 3.8 war in part of one season that he was in Seattle.
48:14 --> 48:16 [SPEAKER_00]: The man was a 50 war pitcher.
48:17 --> 48:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Like objectively in terms of guys who have put on a Mariners uniform, he is one of the 50 best That's true, and if you're going by my my logic of the condensed success That was really condensed success because you're right.
48:34 --> 48:35 [SPEAKER_01]: You lift Lee and those boardenly awesome.
48:35 --> 48:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah The idea of having Felix and Cliff Lee and a rotation together was amazing especially Cleaning games to that team one
48:45 --> 48:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Certainly a lot.
48:47 --> 48:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you think Cliff Lee that year in total, had a five and a half win season because, yeah, do I have that right?
48:56 --> 48:58 [SPEAKER_01]: No, 5.1, because Mariners and the Rangers.
48:59 --> 49:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, Cliff Lee was really, really good.
49:01 --> 49:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't quite put him in my top 50, although if he had pitched one more year here, I probably would have.
49:06 --> 49:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise he would have been among the 50 greatest Mariners ever in terms of water, pitcher war, 50.
49:13 --> 49:17 [SPEAKER_00]: 50 pictures with the top 50 highest war.
49:17 --> 49:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's the bar he had to clear.
49:18 --> 49:19 [SPEAKER_00]: You know who's number 50?
49:20 --> 49:22 [SPEAKER_00]: He's got a war of like four one.
49:22 --> 49:25 [SPEAKER_00]: The 50th best Mariners picture of all time by war.
49:26 --> 49:27 [SPEAKER_00]: It's Doug Fister.
49:28 --> 49:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I think a seas two seasons of Clifley and Seattle would have passed Doug Fister.
49:35 --> 49:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I would second that.
49:36 --> 49:38 [SPEAKER_01]: That is incredible.
49:40 --> 50:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how much analysis I have for the final five other than again Aaron Seely was an important part of the one rotation, so that takes into account Bryce Miller has had one really good year and I'm projecting that he's going to have some more Thanks to Nino man, I mean he had a 2017 season that was a top five Mariners catcher season
50:03 --> 50:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, cows had his couple, but Mike Zanino in 2017, for a position that's really hard to be good offensively, had a great year.
50:12 --> 50:13 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you have that year?
50:13 --> 50:17 [SPEAKER_01]: He had a, or you know what, I might be projecting a little bit by the war, because okay, it was three and a half wins that year.
50:18 --> 50:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe I'm overshooting that a little bit, but he had a couple really good years, and he, by war, actually stacks up to be around this spot on the list.
50:26 --> 50:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So shout out Mike Zanino.
50:33 --> 50:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Still managed to rack up a ton of value when he's in Seattle, and the bar for Mariners catchers has not been set very high until Cal Rowley came around.
50:42 --> 50:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Mike Sinina was arguably a value in talent basis.
50:47 --> 50:50 [SPEAKER_00]: The standard bearer there until Cal Rowley roll around.
50:50 --> 50:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it doesn't get a little bit of a positional adjustment too.
50:53 --> 50:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, he does.
50:54 --> 50:59 [SPEAKER_00]: If he had these numbers as a third baseman or shortstop, he would not be in the top 50.
51:01 --> 51:06 [SPEAKER_01]: But until Calarale came up, you're right that you could argue Zanino was the most valuable Mariners catcher.
51:06 --> 51:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously Dan Wilson played longer, but Zanino had a much higher peak with better offensive seasons.
51:13 --> 51:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Crazy.
51:14 --> 51:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It is it is a little weird to seize the on there, but I'm happy for him.
51:17 --> 51:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Congratulations that he made the top 50 mariner's of all time And he was always not that this Factors a ton into it, but he's supposed to be a really nice dude, too I don't have much analysis besides the Cliffly thing like Cliffly again was just one of the best pictures They've ever had the problem is they were just holy incompetent when they brought him in so there was no reason to keep him
51:38 --> 51:44 [SPEAKER_00]: But if they were not a total train wreck, then maybe he would have stayed longer he would have been higher on this list.
51:45 --> 51:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he could have been a bigger part of Mariners' history.
51:47 --> 51:51 [SPEAKER_00]: The problem is he was a Mariners 41 less than one season.
51:53 --> 51:56 [SPEAKER_00]: What was the 2010 Mariners record that year?
51:56 --> 51:57 [SPEAKER_00]: They lost 100.
51:57 --> 51:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was lost 102 games.
52:00 --> 52:01 [SPEAKER_01]: You're pretty close.
52:01 --> 52:04 [SPEAKER_01]: There were 61 and 101.
52:04 --> 52:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
52:08 --> 52:11 [SPEAKER_00]: and Clifley lost 101 games.
52:13 --> 52:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you traded Clifley, hoping you were going to get a haul back for him, and it was Justin Smoke.
52:19 --> 52:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Who did not make this list?
52:21 --> 52:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I mean.
52:23 --> 52:27 [SPEAKER_01]: But from a war perspective, we're to see rank among Mariners.
52:28 --> 52:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it cannot be high.
52:29 --> 52:31 [SPEAKER_01]: He never had a good year here, Justin smoke.
52:31 --> 52:35 [SPEAKER_01]: He for his career in a Mariners uniform had one and a half wins.
52:35 --> 52:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
52:36 --> 52:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it might have been a little higher than that.
52:38 --> 52:41 [SPEAKER_00]: It's in Toronto where he started to finally rack that up.
52:42 --> 52:44 [SPEAKER_00]: He made it all-star game in Toronto.
52:45 --> 52:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what else I learned, Doug?
52:48 --> 52:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, in terms of all-time mariners.
52:51 --> 52:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we were talking about, okay.
52:53 --> 52:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we had this conversation about Tino Martinez.
52:55 --> 52:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, how important was that 95 season in terms of getting him in the top 50 mariners of all time?
53:00 --> 53:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know who actually ranks higher in war all time for a mariner and Tino Martinez?
53:07 --> 53:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I do, but lay it on the people.
53:09 --> 53:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Dustin Acle.
53:13 --> 53:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just an actually a top 50 mariner of all time.
53:17 --> 53:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to go with no.
53:18 --> 53:18 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
53:20 --> 53:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I did not have them on here as you know.
53:23 --> 53:25 [SPEAKER_00]: There was also some of our friends mentioned to us.
53:26 --> 53:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Willy Bloomquish should be in the top 50 mariner of all time.
53:30 --> 53:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Willie, I mean, Willie, when you think of Mariners, he is like, you remember him, you definitely do.
53:35 --> 53:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I did not have him on my top 50.
53:38 --> 53:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, again, the hard reality for some people, they think Willie Bloomkiss would be in the top 50 Mariners of all time.
53:45 --> 53:49 [SPEAKER_00]: There are two Mariners that played
53:49 --> 53:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of a similar position to him that rank much higher all time in war and value to the franchise than Willie Bloomquist They rank right next to each other all time.
53:59 --> 54:10 [SPEAKER_00]: One of those is Brendan Ryan The other one is Dylan Moore Who come on now.
54:10 --> 54:11 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like my guy.
54:11 --> 54:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Well He was really fun for a few years.
54:17 --> 54:18 [SPEAKER_01]: He was he was
54:18 --> 54:19 [SPEAKER_01]: He was great.
54:20 --> 54:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, it didn't end.
54:21 --> 54:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it did not end very well.
54:24 --> 54:24 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no.
54:24 --> 54:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you had our mailbag questions by the summer had about 10 plus every week that said, Win is Dylan Moore getting DFA.
54:37 --> 54:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And we couldn't answer all those because like guys, I get it, but we don't get to control the roster.
54:41 --> 54:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, when you, Willie Bloomquist rank below those guys in war, you can't be on this list.
54:47 --> 54:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Because those guys didn't run on the list.
54:49 --> 54:51 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it is a hard argument to make.
54:51 --> 54:52 [SPEAKER_00]: This was really fun though.
54:52 --> 55:07 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a little more tedious than you would think to build a top 50 list, especially for a franchise like the Mariners and some of the surprises you find when you build this list, especially when
55:07 --> 55:08 [SPEAKER_00]: But you're welcome.
55:09 --> 55:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Now you have a one through 50 list to roast in the comments.
55:12 --> 55:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So get, get out of it.
55:14 --> 55:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Tell us who of the worst list.
55:17 --> 55:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I almost feel like we should make a graphic of these, but that's gonna be hard to make two 50 people on a graphic.
55:24 --> 55:25 [SPEAKER_01]: You can toy around with it.
55:25 --> 55:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
55:26 --> 55:28 [SPEAKER_01]: We made it.
55:28 --> 55:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, you guys should make your own top 50 list too.
55:31 --> 55:37 [SPEAKER_01]: You can obviously go to the Mariners website and pick your 50 greatest Mariners, but if you want a rank-um like we did,
55:37 --> 55:42 [SPEAKER_01]: DM it to us, drop them in the comments, talk about it with your friends, have debates.
55:43 --> 55:45 [SPEAKER_01]: This is why this is fun, but it is a little harder than you think.
55:45 --> 55:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Because once you get past the first 20 or so, you really have to start to use your brain power.
55:50 --> 55:53 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, have that it and enjoy.
55:53 --> 55:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Do a TJ and I did, make your own list.
55:55 --> 55:59 [SPEAKER_01]: You can tell us where you thought we were right, where we were wrong, where you would have guys higher or lower.
56:00 --> 56:01 [SPEAKER_01]: This is fun.
56:01 --> 56:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And much needed in an offseason where we are still waiting on name redacted.
56:07 --> 56:09 [SPEAKER_00]: What are our name redacted is doing today?
56:09 --> 56:11 [SPEAKER_00]: What if he knows that we've banned his name?
56:12 --> 56:13 [SPEAKER_00]: We just don't talk about him.
56:15 --> 56:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Will he be on the 50 greatest mariner's list with two years of play?
56:25 --> 56:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe.
56:25 --> 56:26 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
56:27 --> 56:28 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
56:28 --> 56:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll lean no, but I'll, but I would say maybe.
56:31 --> 56:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Can't rule it out.
56:34 --> 56:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, not with Mike Zanina, I went 49, yeah.
56:37 --> 56:38 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
56:38 --> 56:38 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
56:39 --> 56:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Or cliffly.
56:40 --> 56:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
56:41 --> 56:43 [SPEAKER_01]: But that was fun, seriously, let us know, drop them in the comments.
56:44 --> 56:47 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, that's just about wraps up this edition of the Marine Lair podcast.
56:48 --> 56:49 [SPEAKER_01]: You guys know the drill.
56:49 --> 56:50 [SPEAKER_01]: You want to listen to the full form podcast.
56:51 --> 56:52 [SPEAKER_01]: You can do so wherever you get your audio pods.
56:53 --> 56:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Make sure you're downloading these episodes, you guys.
56:55 --> 57:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Go, rate and review, leave it five stars on Apple and Spotify.
57:00 --> 57:04 [SPEAKER_01]: You can leave written reviews on Apple podcasts if you're on YouTube.
57:04 --> 57:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, comment, and please go hit subscribe.
57:06 --> 57:08 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the best way to support the channel.
57:08 --> 57:13 [SPEAKER_01]: You can find everything on our website, too, marinelayerpod.com, episodes are all there.
57:13 --> 57:14 [SPEAKER_01]: You can also find our merch.
57:14 --> 57:16 [SPEAKER_01]: We love seeing people wear the merch.
57:16 --> 57:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So go get yourself some.
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57:19 --> 57:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, MarineLayerPod.com.
57:22 --> 57:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you can check us out across social media at MarineLayerPod.
57:26 --> 57:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, one more reminder, we will be at both days of fan fest.
57:29 --> 57:32 [SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna keep reminding people next weekend, Saturday, and Sunday, catch us there.
57:32 --> 57:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And then trivia night, Wednesday, February 11th, 7 p.m. Yeah, that's the start time.
57:38 --> 57:40 [SPEAKER_01]: 7 p.m. Queen Ambeirhal, hope to see you there.
57:40 --> 57:42 [SPEAKER_01]: It's gonna be a blast.
57:42 --> 57:43 [SPEAKER_01]: That's TJ, I'm Lyle.
57:43 --> 57:45 [SPEAKER_01]: As always, we thank you guys for tuning in.
57:45 --> 57:46 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk to you soon.