Lyle and TJ react to the Mariners losing the series to the Angels, and how the Mariners are going to get their offense back on track (2:30). They then discuss another fantastic Emerson Hancock start, and try to answer a big question the Mariners will have to solve with him in the coming weeks (25:42).
Get your Washington Accident Books from Davis Law Group: injurytriallawyer.com
For ad-free episodes, check out our Patreon: patreon.com/marinelayerpod
Merchandise, event schedule, and more: marinelayerpod.com
Email us: marinelayerpod@gmail.com
Check out Just Baseball: Click here
Follow the show on Twitter: @marinelayerpod
Find us on YouTube: Click here
Find us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@marinelayerpod
Find us on all Podcast Platforms: https://linktr.ee/MarineLayerPod
Follow TJ on Twitter: @tjmathewson
Follow Lyle on Twitter: @lyle_goldstein
Our Sponsors:
* Check out BetterHelp: https://www.betterhelp.com
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy
00:00 --> 00:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Open to episode number 386 of the Marine Lair podcast.
00:03 --> 00:07 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners lose two of three in Anaheim and we have some takeaways.
00:07 --> 00:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember you guys, before we start these episodes, just do us a big favor.
00:10 --> 00:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Make sure you go download these podcast episodes if you're listening, go rate and review five stars.
00:15 --> 00:18 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're on YouTube, make sure to go hit subscribe.
00:18 --> 00:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Just take a second to do it.
00:19 --> 00:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Go leave a like on the video, drop a comment.
00:22 --> 00:24 [SPEAKER_00]: You can check us out at our website where everything's over there.
00:24 --> 00:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Marinelayerpod.com, all our merch is there.
00:27 --> 00:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Episodes are all there.
00:29 --> 00:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Patreon is there.
00:30 --> 00:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, that's Marinelayerpod.com.
00:32 --> 00:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And you can find us everywhere.
00:33 --> 00:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Across social media at Marinelayerpod.
00:51 --> 01:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Lair podcast part of the just baseball podcast network recording here on Sunday evening April fifth while you know who did not rise today.
01:02 --> 01:04 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners.
01:05 --> 01:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they didn't rise all weekend season over season is over.
01:09 --> 01:11 [SPEAKER_01]: We said if they lost the series the season is over.
01:13 --> 01:17 [SPEAKER_01]: They lost the series the season is over.
01:19 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_00]: We just said, just don't lose a series to the angels.
01:22 --> 01:23 [SPEAKER_00]: We didn't even say that to sleep.
01:24 --> 01:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Just don't lose the series in the first two weeks of the year to the angels.
01:30 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And they lost the series to the angels.
01:32 --> 01:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, they still haven't won a series yet this season.
01:36 --> 01:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't realize that until today.
01:37 --> 01:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Golly's like, hey, first series one of the season if they come through an extra, something like, wow.
01:41 --> 01:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, really.
01:42 --> 01:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they've only played three.
01:44 --> 01:46 [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't win against Cleveland and they didn't want to get the Yankees.
01:47 --> 01:48 [SPEAKER_01]: It's fair point.
01:48 --> 01:51 [SPEAKER_01]: It did not settle on me yet that they had not won a series yet.
01:52 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Certainly didn't feel that way.
01:54 --> 01:55 [SPEAKER_01]: But now it feels that way.
01:55 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Given that they just lost a series to the angels in which they rolled out redepmers.
02:01 --> 02:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Jack Kahonoids.
02:11 --> 02:17 [SPEAKER_01]: The only game they won is a game where their pitching did not allow a single run until the 10th inning.
02:20 --> 02:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And then Joe Adele happened.
02:23 --> 02:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Joe Adele happened.
02:24 --> 02:26 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners would have won the series of Joe Adele didn't exist.
02:27 --> 02:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess if you want to positive, that's probably all I have to point at for you.
02:31 --> 02:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Joe Adele doesn't rob three home runs on Saturday.
02:34 --> 02:34 [SPEAKER_01]: We're just kind of pissed.
02:34 --> 02:36 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners played like crap on Sunday.
02:37 --> 02:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And that would be it.
02:39 --> 02:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Dude.
02:40 --> 02:41 [SPEAKER_00]: How the hell does that happen?
02:41 --> 02:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Seriously.
02:43 --> 02:43 [SPEAKER_01]: How?
02:43 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_01]: There is no way that's ever happened before.
02:45 --> 02:46 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't think it has.
02:47 --> 02:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I saw MLB stats in info tweet out here on Sunday morning that it has never happened.
02:56 --> 02:59 [SPEAKER_01]: The same player robbing three definite home runs.
03:00 --> 03:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you make three nice catches?
03:02 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_01]: But three clear home runs, robbed.
03:06 --> 03:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Three different players, three different places on the field.
03:10 --> 03:19 [SPEAKER_01]: It's probably the craziest thing ever at that point like that's something you chalk up to oh that's baseball right there other things in the game where the reason the Mariners didn't win
03:19 --> 03:24 [SPEAKER_01]: But for those three swings from those three guys, the reason they didn't score us because baseball is baseball.
03:25 --> 03:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes that thing happens and Joe Adele made an amazing play.
03:28 --> 03:30 [SPEAKER_01]: That one in the fucking ninth inning.
03:30 --> 03:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, get that out of here with that one.
03:33 --> 03:48 [SPEAKER_01]: He makes the catch diving into the stands, gets up, poses, and then someone captures, probably the hardest photo I've ever seen on a baseball field of Joe Adele catching the ball and holding it up for everyone in his glove.
03:48 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm seriously, as a mariner fan, all I can do is hat tip to the man who just essentially ended the season for the Seattle Mariners.
03:58 --> 04:01 [SPEAKER_00]: See, you say that's baseball when things like that happen.
04:01 --> 04:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Can we tweak it a little bit and rephrase it a little bit?
04:04 --> 04:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Baseball is a stupid ass sport.
04:07 --> 04:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought you were going to say that's mariner's baseball.
04:09 --> 04:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you could go with that too.
04:12 --> 04:19 [SPEAKER_01]: There are other things like the Mariners could have tried scoring runs and other ways besides three solo home runs, which is something we will bring up and talk about on this episode.
04:19 --> 04:28 [SPEAKER_01]: The fact that Mariners offense is didn't exist, doesn't exist until Sunday in which case then their pitching didn't exist.
04:28 --> 04:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And even still there are massive flaws within the offense, but still big picture from the weekend, right?
04:34 --> 04:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Everything is still set up for the Mariners to win the series.
04:41 --> 04:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Emerson Hancock and Brian Moore are going to throw two dazzling starts on Friday and Saturday.
04:48 --> 04:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Brian was going to throw seven shut out.
04:50 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Emerson Hancock's going to throw six innings, a one-run ball.
04:53 --> 04:55 [SPEAKER_01]: The only run coming on a lead off home run.
04:56 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_01]: So, well, I think the Mariners win the series point like off of that.
05:00 --> 05:04 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're telling me, they're facing redepers and Jack Kahonoids.
05:06 --> 05:07 [SPEAKER_01]: They did not.
05:07 --> 05:10 [SPEAKER_01]: They split those two games and Mariners end up losing the series.
05:11 --> 05:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, somehow you have to try to factor in Joe Adele to that, which you cannot do.
05:15 --> 05:16 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, I found the stat.
05:16 --> 05:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So according to Sports stats and info, or Sports info, Joe Adele's the first player to rob three home runs in a game since tracking began in 2004.
05:25 --> 05:29 [SPEAKER_00]: No team has recorded three robberies in one game in that span as well.
05:30 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_00]: No teams ever done it three times.
05:32 --> 05:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Certainly no players ever done it three times.
05:34 --> 05:37 [SPEAKER_01]: They say since tracking started, that's never happened before.
05:37 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
05:38 --> 05:42 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no way that has never happened before, no.
05:42 --> 05:43 [SPEAKER_01]: What are the odds in a baseball game?
05:43 --> 05:53 [SPEAKER_01]: There are three robable home runs hit to any part of the field, let alone to the same, towards the same player.
05:54 --> 05:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, there's only so many ball parks in majorly baseball, or you can rob a home run like that.
06:00 --> 06:06 [SPEAKER_01]: An angel stadium didn't even use to be like that
06:07 --> 06:26 [SPEAKER_01]: two of those wouldn't have been robberies they just want to know about robberies how many will two of them would have just been doubles robberies so that's it so that the unique circumstances that had to happen for that stat to come to reality there's there's just no way that's ever happened
06:27 --> 06:29 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, there's no shot.
06:30 --> 06:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, as a lot of the discourse that was over the weekend and that we got in our comments and DMs and from our group chats with our friends, not only did they say it's never happened, but there was a lot of, that would only happen to the Mariners type of talk.
06:45 --> 06:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, are they wrong?
06:47 --> 06:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I was gonna say, if you feel that way, I mean, I can't sit here and tell you you're wrong.
06:51 --> 06:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't blame you if you feel that way, because well,
06:54 --> 06:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, you are, you are in your right to feel that way.
06:58 --> 07:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Believe me, I know we're, you know, sitting here, we're a little heated at the start of this episode, because the Mariners played a bad series.
07:05 --> 07:09 [SPEAKER_01]: They outside of two starts from the starting pitching.
07:10 --> 07:11 [SPEAKER_01]: The bullpen was up and down.
07:11 --> 07:14 [SPEAKER_01]: The lineup was madingly inconsistent.
07:14 --> 07:16 [SPEAKER_01]: And the Mariners lost a series to a bad team.
07:17 --> 07:18 [SPEAKER_01]: It is April.
07:19 --> 07:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Ultimately, it's not the end of the world, but this is not a series the Mariners should be losing.
07:25 --> 07:28 [SPEAKER_01]: But I was enjoying reading some of the reaction from this as well.
07:28 --> 07:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Just to try and get a sense, like we're frustrated.
07:30 --> 07:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to see what other people are frustrated with as well.
07:33 --> 07:38 [SPEAKER_01]: And we put a reaction out and it's currently sitting at 122 comments on the reaction.
07:38 --> 07:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was just kind of scrolling through and looking at some of these comments.
07:42 --> 07:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, some of them are silly to be honest.
07:45 --> 07:50 [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, some of them people are like, hey, why is Cole Young not hitting higher in the lineup right now?
07:51 --> 08:02 [SPEAKER_01]: My answer to that question would be because the way this team is managed, you're not going to shake up your lineup and move Cal and Julio out of their spots for Julio.
08:02 --> 08:03 [SPEAKER_01]: You just wouldn't do that.
08:04 --> 08:09 [SPEAKER_01]: But if the managers wanted to score more runs right this second, they probably would have to do that.
08:10 --> 08:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, this is 122 comments on Instagram.
08:14 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not practicing Instagram.
08:15 --> 08:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're not factoring in all the other platforms or people are furious.
08:18 --> 08:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, people are not happy.
08:20 --> 08:20 [SPEAKER_00]: They lost the series.
08:21 --> 08:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't blame people for feeling that way.
08:22 --> 08:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And despite all this, I mean, the person points out, one person points out, Caden points out a positive of this weekend.
08:30 --> 08:31 [SPEAKER_01]: We talked about this pre-recording.
08:32 --> 08:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Mariner sort of been off to a better start this year than they were last year by one game.
08:38 --> 08:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I would counter and say, look at last year's roster, compared to this year's roster.
08:44 --> 08:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I would hope they would be a game better.
08:46 --> 08:49 [SPEAKER_00]: At this time, in 2025 versus at this time in 2026.
08:49 --> 08:57 [SPEAKER_00]: The thing is, man, I'm sure the Mariners are gonna be fine and they're gonna figure this out and they're gonna turn this whole thing around.
08:57 --> 09:00 [SPEAKER_00]: But when exactly that's gonna be, I don't know.
09:00 --> 09:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was really hoping with a team like this, we didn't have to go through discourse like this again, where they start slow, and they get people all nervous, and they get people all, all, riled up because they don't wanna, because they're seeing series losses against the angels and games into the year, I was hoping they could just start 73 and then just go.
09:19 --> 09:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure there's gonna be bad stretches over the course of the season.
09:22 --> 09:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Every team has them, the Dodgers have them, every year.
09:25 --> 09:27 [SPEAKER_00]: But I was really hoping it was not going to start like this.
09:27 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I was really hoping we were not going to be talking about a team that's under 500 through a week and a half.
09:32 --> 09:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I was really hoping we were not going to talk about a slow-holy of start.
09:35 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I certainly was not expecting a cow start like this.
09:39 --> 09:47 [SPEAKER_00]: The bullpen has not come my nerves that were in the off season about me thinking their leverage arm short and we'll get more into that later.
09:47 --> 09:50 [SPEAKER_00]: like I was just hoping to avoid a lot of this again.
09:51 --> 09:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not avoiding it.
09:52 --> 09:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And while I'm sure they're going to turn around at some point or another, it doesn't make it fun in the moment when you have to do this whole charade again.
09:58 --> 10:02 [SPEAKER_01]: There are some issues that we are permanently worried about.
10:02 --> 10:05 [SPEAKER_01]: There are some issues that we think are temporary that will be resolved.
10:05 --> 10:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I would say we start with a temporary one and we talk about this offense.
10:09 --> 10:13 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners offense is one of the most inconsistent things right now I've ever seen.
10:14 --> 10:21 [SPEAKER_01]: It looks like the 20, 23 version of this Mariners offense, minus the production in the middle of the lineup.
10:22 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_01]: The story for this lineup through one week of play, while we can have a play, is that the middle three hitters in your lineup, he are batting two, three, and four, have OPSs of four, 17, 404,
10:38 --> 10:42 [SPEAKER_01]: and 330, Cal, Julio, Josh, Naylor.
10:42 --> 10:44 [SPEAKER_01]: You wanna know why you're not scoring runs consistently?
10:45 --> 10:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Why they went, Friday and Saturday, 18 regulation innings, without a ghost runner on second base, without scoring a single run.
10:54 --> 10:57 [SPEAKER_01]: The reason they went that far is because of that right there.
10:58 --> 10:58 [SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
10:59 --> 11:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Your best hitters play like crap.
11:02 --> 11:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Can't hit.
11:03 --> 11:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Then you're not gonna score runs.
11:06 --> 11:07 [SPEAKER_00]: None of them have a home run yet.
11:08 --> 11:08 [SPEAKER_00]: None of them.
11:09 --> 11:10 [SPEAKER_00]: None of them.
11:10 --> 11:10 [SPEAKER_00]: None of them.
11:11 --> 11:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you can't run out 400-400-300 OPSs in the middle of your order.
11:16 --> 11:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Even in the first week and a half, if you want to win games.
11:19 --> 11:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Those three guys are all getting paid the big bucks.
11:22 --> 11:28 [SPEAKER_00]: In your lineup, those are the three guys making real money, and they're getting paid that way because they're expected to drive this offense.
11:28 --> 11:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Through ten games.
11:29 --> 11:50 [SPEAKER_01]: not really doing that in the way the line up is shook out the guys at the bottom of the line up and been way more productive and they've been getting on base to give opportunities to the top of the line up and then the top of the line up is leaving them on they perfectly summarized at the end of the game today with cow stepping to the bread the plate with the bases loaded any strikes out
11:52 --> 11:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if we should spend that much time focusing on Cal because ultimately I do think that one's just gonna correct itself soon enough.
11:59 --> 12:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Cal to be fair did have a couple of good at bats during the weekend.
12:02 --> 12:05 [SPEAKER_00]: He was supposed to hit his first homer and then let me say it again.
12:05 --> 12:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Joe Adele happened.
12:07 --> 12:10 [SPEAKER_00]: A drill walk on Sunday and he hit a couple other baseball's hard.
12:10 --> 12:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying there were all great at bats.
12:12 --> 12:14 [SPEAKER_00]: That 11th inning at bat you're talking about right now.
12:15 --> 12:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Not good.
12:16 --> 12:23 [SPEAKER_00]: But he did have some of that that did look sharp, and the did look like he was more on time, and the did look like he was starting to get into a little more of a rhythm.
12:24 --> 12:30 [SPEAKER_00]: So there are some little positives with Cal that make you sit there and say, yeah, he's going to figure this thing out here soon enough.
12:31 --> 12:33 [SPEAKER_00]: But that doesn't change the fact that they're not scoring runs right now.
12:34 --> 12:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And in the first two games, in 18 innings, a regulation ball, like you mentioned, you don't score against the angels against Redepmer's Jack Kahonoits and that bullpen.
12:44 --> 12:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean,
12:45 --> 12:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that can happen.
12:47 --> 12:58 [SPEAKER_01]: This isn't even really an attack on Cal Raleigh but when you bat second and the expectations of offense are on you and you're as bad as you are, then you are going to get blamed for not being able to score runs.
12:59 --> 13:01 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the way Cal's doing it right now.
13:01 --> 13:07 [SPEAKER_01]: He's not even really giving the Mariners a chance to score runs because he's striking out so much with his strikeouts today.
13:07 --> 13:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I think his strikeouts are going to be back closer to 50% on the season.
13:11 --> 13:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Half of his at bats he's striking out.
13:14 --> 13:15 [SPEAKER_01]: That's really bad.
13:15 --> 13:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Entering the game today.
13:16 --> 13:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Cowrowly strikeout rate was 45.9%.
13:19 --> 13:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And he struck out three more times today.
13:26 --> 13:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Strikeouts are good when you hit home runs, but I mentioned none of the guys in the middle of the lineup have a home run yet.
13:32 --> 13:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Which makes it pretty hard.
13:34 --> 13:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Although if you want to ship to a positive storyline, cause when we talked about three mariners storylines that we're gonna try to hit during this episode, one of them is one of the few guys in the offensive is hitting right now in Cole Young, who, by the way, speaking of a lack of homers.
13:48 --> 13:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Until Cole Young, a homer on Sunday, this Mariners team had gotten over a week without a long ball.
13:54 --> 13:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you realize that?
13:57 --> 14:00 [SPEAKER_00]: No, now I do.
14:00 --> 14:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, from the back end of the Guardian series, all through the Yankee series, and up until on Sunday, they didn't have a homer.
14:08 --> 14:13 [SPEAKER_00]: For a team that's supposed to hit the ball out of the ballpark, maybe a little bit less so this year without Polo and without Gino.
14:14 --> 14:19 [SPEAKER_00]: But for a team that's still supposed to hit a tommers, they did not have a home run for a week.
14:19 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a blast.
14:20 --> 14:23 [SPEAKER_01]: For last one would have been Luke Rayleigh or was it cool?
14:24 --> 14:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Now it would have been Rayleigh's because Rayleigh happened in extra innings, right?
14:27 --> 14:29 [SPEAKER_00]: In a game they lost.
14:29 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and maybe the biggest part of that coal home run line was he hit it off a lefty Dude, coal youngest all of his damages here off of left hand and pitching he has six hits against lefties this year four against righties
14:44 --> 14:50 [SPEAKER_01]: We're checking off the boxes of coal-yung developments we wanted to see this year that are trending in the right direction.
14:51 --> 14:53 [SPEAKER_01]: It's got a like Bryce Miller and Brian Moon 2024.
14:53 --> 14:55 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, all right, can they get lefties out?
14:55 --> 14:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, all right, well, then they're going to be a lot better.
14:57 --> 14:59 [SPEAKER_01]: coal-yung, can you hit against lefties?
14:59 --> 15:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
15:00 --> 15:02 [SPEAKER_01]: So far, yes, great.
15:02 --> 15:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you hit fastballs?
15:03 --> 15:04 [SPEAKER_01]: So far this year?
15:04 --> 15:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he can.
15:05 --> 15:06 [SPEAKER_01]: How does this defense look?
15:07 --> 15:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Good, best defender and baseball by defense of run saved and during the weekend.
15:12 --> 15:15 [SPEAKER_01]: How, how could you complain about anything Cole Young is doing right now?
15:16 --> 15:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I will say, I'm curious to see what Stabilizes first.
15:19 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_01]: His baseball savant page right now doesn't look great.
15:22 --> 15:28 [SPEAKER_01]: If you look at it, he looks like you'd be struggling, a lot, according to his savant page.
15:29 --> 15:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm wondering for him from a bad-ed ball perspective, what Stabilizes first?
15:35 --> 15:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Either the savant page catches up and it's a lot more red and the production keeps going or this is actually what is bad at ball data is and it regresses a little bit offensively from statistical standpoint.
15:50 --> 15:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Just to highlight, I don't know if you've looked at it yet, Lyle, but like 18th percentile quality of contact, 13th percentile average exit velocity, 33%ile barrel rate.
15:59 --> 16:05 [SPEAKER_01]: He is right now, or entering the weekend, or no, it's normalized right now.
16:06 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_01]: After Sunday's game, his strikeout rate right now sits at 30% as walk rates at five percent.
16:11 --> 16:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So what, what, what should those normalizes?
16:15 --> 16:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I can promise you, Cole Young,
16:20 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I think so too.
16:21 --> 16:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean his discipline is too good, his play approaches too good, there's a chance Cole Young walks more than he strikes out at some point in his career.
16:31 --> 16:38 [SPEAKER_00]: And for the most part of his career, his walk rate in his strikeout rate are probably going to be pretty close for the most part, because that's who his game has represented.
16:39 --> 16:57 [SPEAKER_00]: his bad at ball data last year wasn't off the charts like if you look at co-young in 25 and what he did in terms of hard hit balls and quality contact it wasn't crazy but he's also stronger now he put on positive weight he hit balls pretty hard in spring training he's really squared up a couple in the first week
16:57 --> 17:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you're going to see him put up John Carlo X of VLO's.
17:01 --> 17:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you're expecting that.
17:03 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_00]: But do I think the numbers are going to stabilize to the point where it reflects more of his production?
17:08 --> 17:09 [SPEAKER_00]: As long as he continues to head, I do.
17:10 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Because you would think for a guy that's really made some strides from his rookie year to year two, at least early on.
17:16 --> 17:29 [SPEAKER_00]: that some of that would also be reflective in your bad at ball data to say, here's also where I made strides, because right now, Cole Young has been wildly productive offensively, and he would think the bad at ball data, some points can back that up.
17:29 --> 17:37 [SPEAKER_01]: from the sample we've got and so far, his bat speeds the same, actually it's ticked down a tiny bit, but he also has less swings.
17:38 --> 17:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And that can normalize as he gets more good swings off.
17:41 --> 17:43 [SPEAKER_01]: His ground ball rate is exactly the same.
17:43 --> 17:46 [SPEAKER_01]: What has changed for Cole right now?
17:47 --> 18:02 [SPEAKER_01]: is he is pulling the ball in the air more, which is great, but I don't think he's going to keep this number up, which right now it says, out of all the ball, see hits in the air, he's pulling 40% of them, which is a lot, nearly impossible, cow was at 38% last year when he hit 60 home runs.
18:03 --> 18:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think Cole is going to keep that number throughout the season, but I do think that number will be at least in the red given what he did last year, he ended last
18:17 --> 18:20 [SPEAKER_00]: and to be truthful, I don't want him pulling the ball all the time.
18:21 --> 18:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Cole Young's game is that it's best when he's spraying the ball to all fields.
18:25 --> 18:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to be an error actually, I think it's good for him.
18:28 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm more than happy for him to pull the ball in the air, but not 40% of the time.
18:33 --> 18:33 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm talking about.
18:34 --> 18:34 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a lot.
18:35 --> 18:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Because then you don't want to get pull happy if you're a coal-young.
18:37 --> 18:43 [SPEAKER_00]: For a guy that we know has some poppin' his bat, but he's not supposed to be a 30-type home run player.
18:43 --> 18:44 [SPEAKER_00]: That's just not his game.
18:44 --> 18:45 [SPEAKER_00]: So his game is best.
18:45 --> 18:51 [SPEAKER_00]: When again, when he's got a good approach, and he draws his walks, and he's strikeout rates low, and he sprays the ball everywhere.
18:51 --> 18:52 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the Jared Calmick thing.
18:53 --> 18:56 [SPEAKER_00]: When he got all pull-happy, that's when things started to go wrong.
18:56 --> 18:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And I am not saying that's what coal-young's gonna do.
18:58 --> 19:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying that I don't know if it is in the best interest of Cole Young's offensive game, or you're pulling a ball 40% of the time.
19:06 --> 19:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Fair point, and I misread this data, I'd not, like, essentially understood the breakdown until now.
19:12 --> 19:16 [SPEAKER_01]: It is not 40% of his fly balls, it's 40% of his bad at balls, period he pulls in the air.
19:17 --> 19:17 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's too many.
19:18 --> 19:21 [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't need to pull that many in the air, you're right, he'd need to spray it around a little bit more.
19:22 --> 19:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Someone like Cow.
19:24 --> 19:27 [SPEAKER_01]: should be pulling the ball in the air, tongue, because that's where he does all of his damage.
19:27 --> 19:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Now for all the fly balls, Koliung hits, I don't want him hitting it the other way, or hitting it the center field, he needs to be pulling those suckers.
19:33 --> 19:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Every single one that he can, because that's how he's gonna do damage.
19:37 --> 19:44 [SPEAKER_01]: He's not gonna be a guy that's gonna hit balls out the center field consistently, or hit them out the other way, he's gonna want to pull the ball.
19:44 --> 19:45 [SPEAKER_01]: So in that area, he'd wanna do that.
19:46 --> 19:51 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, he's OPS, thing over 1 against lefties right now.
19:51 --> 19:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Small sample.
19:52 --> 19:53 [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty good.
19:53 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_00]: He'll be at say over 1 against Lieutenant pitching.
19:57 --> 19:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I still wouldn't move him up in the lineup.
20:00 --> 20:01 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I wouldn't either.
20:01 --> 20:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, if it's not broke, why fix it?
20:03 --> 20:06 [SPEAKER_00]: If he's thriving down at the bottom of the order, leave him there.
20:06 --> 20:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I honestly think Coyoung's profile for his career is to be a very, very good bottom of the order header.
20:13 --> 20:19 [SPEAKER_00]: If it all goes right, if he's at the bottom of your lineup and he's putting up that type of production, great.
20:19 --> 20:20 [SPEAKER_00]: why mess with it?
20:20 --> 20:23 [SPEAKER_00]: You know those guys at the top of the lineup are going to hit.
20:23 --> 20:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I know it's frustrating right now, but Calen, Julio and Nailer are not going to be running 500 OPSs at the end of the year.
20:30 --> 20:36 [SPEAKER_01]: So actually you're giving them a generous one right now, but yes, I get the point.
20:36 --> 20:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm sorry.
20:36 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't have an OPS of a 420 right now, but three of them.
20:40 --> 20:43 [SPEAKER_00]: 400, 400, 300, that's what their OPS is range.
20:44 --> 20:46 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they're not gonna be doing that all year.
20:46 --> 20:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It's frustrating now, believe me, like if your reaction after this angel series is your furious and you wanna vent and you're saying same old shit, look man, what do we say all the time?
20:56 --> 21:07 [SPEAKER_00]: What's one of the main golden rules of this podcast is, we don't tell people how to be fans, like if you're furious after 10 games and you're getting tired of watching the way the middle of the order looks,
21:07 --> 21:08 [SPEAKER_00]: You're a fan, that's how you feel.
21:09 --> 21:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Feel that way, go right ahead.
21:10 --> 21:26 [SPEAKER_00]: But I also think that when you look up a month from now, or you look at it at the end of the first half, or certainly at the end of the year, you're gonna see those guys hitting for a lot more production than they are right now, which is why you're probably not gonna replace Cole Young and move all those guys down.
21:28 --> 21:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I have another takeaway when it comes to the soft ends.
21:30 --> 21:34 [SPEAKER_01]: The three guys you added to this lineup, this off season.
21:34 --> 21:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Spreading out of it has been really good.
21:36 --> 21:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Technically, since Naila was a free agent, you added him, and then Rob Raff Snyder as well.
21:41 --> 21:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Out of those three, Donovan has been great so far offensively.
21:45 --> 21:51 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners essentially didn't have him for most of this Angel series, because he landed awkwardly on first base some Friday.
21:51 --> 21:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Sounds like he's going to be okay, but time will tell on that.
21:55 --> 22:00 [SPEAKER_01]: The other two guys, Naila, as we've just highlighted, has been really bad.
22:00 --> 22:02 [SPEAKER_01]: He has the lowest OPS on the team so far.
22:03 --> 22:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Rob Raff Snyder doesn't have a hit, and the Mariners uniform.
22:06 --> 22:10 [SPEAKER_01]: and this is a guy that matters about it lead off for second and all of his games.
22:11 --> 22:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I think Rob Raff Snyder will hit.
22:13 --> 22:14 [SPEAKER_01]: But you've seen the comments.
22:15 --> 22:18 [SPEAKER_01]: You've seen people saying, I see Rob Raff Snyder is out there.
22:18 --> 22:19 [SPEAKER_01]: He's struggling.
22:20 --> 22:22 [SPEAKER_00]: We've seen AJ Pollock before.
22:23 --> 22:41 [SPEAKER_01]: do you think reps that are never going to have an over 12 during the year because that's what he is right now he's only had 12 that's no it happened I could totally see him having an over 12 during the year but that's what's so great about that's what's so great about the beginning of the year because that's all their stats are right now and we get to over yet
22:41 --> 22:42 [SPEAKER_00]: This is true.
22:42 --> 22:43 [SPEAKER_00]: This is very, very true.
22:44 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you, like, cow after the All Star Break last year had stretches where I think he struck out 40 to 50% of the time for a week or two weeks straight.
22:52 --> 22:52 [SPEAKER_01]: He did.
22:53 --> 22:55 [SPEAKER_01]: He hit more home runs in a week and a half.
22:55 --> 22:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he went a week and a half without hitting a home run last year.
22:58 --> 23:00 [SPEAKER_01]: So that part is a bit of a mystery.
23:01 --> 23:02 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you're telling me, like,
23:02 --> 23:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Cal had stretchers last year where he struck out 50% of the time over the course of 10 days.
23:07 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I believe you.
23:08 --> 23:09 [SPEAKER_01]: That happens.
23:09 --> 23:10 [SPEAKER_01]: He swings and misses a lot.
23:11 --> 23:11 [SPEAKER_01]: That's part of his game.
23:12 --> 23:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Problem is it just really hurts the marital is right now because he really need him.
23:15 --> 23:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Especially when the guy on the mound is throwing 93 down the middle.
23:20 --> 23:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and Angel's pitching staff is not great.
23:23 --> 23:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And you didn't even get the meat of it.
23:24 --> 23:25 [SPEAKER_00]: You didn't have to face Soriano.
23:25 --> 23:31 [SPEAKER_00]: You didn't face USA, like you got debt merch, Kahana wits, and Kloss and making his big league debut.
23:32 --> 23:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And Kloss and was a late ad, right?
23:34 --> 23:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because Ryan Johnson apparently was sick.
23:39 --> 23:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, like, for as much shit as we give the angels for being a bad franchise and often a bad team, actually almost always a bad team.
23:49 --> 23:55 [SPEAKER_00]: one of the one, one of the few positive things you can say about the roster, Jose Sorayato actually had a very good year last year.
23:56 --> 23:56 [SPEAKER_00]: He was a good pitcher.
23:57 --> 23:58 [SPEAKER_00]: He is a good pitcher.
23:58 --> 23:59 [SPEAKER_00]: You didn't have to face him.
24:00 --> 24:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Now with the back end of their rotation.
24:02 --> 24:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And through 18 regulation innings didn't score run.
24:10 --> 24:11 [SPEAKER_00]: We're back, baby.
24:11 --> 24:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we are back.
24:12 --> 24:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Can all you fans out there feel this?
24:15 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, feel the whole war back vibes?
24:17 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Cause I can.
24:18 --> 24:21 [SPEAKER_00]: For all the time, we spent the off season thinking about man.
24:21 --> 24:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait to have baseball back.
24:23 --> 24:24 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no news.
24:24 --> 24:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait to get back to getting back to having a game to watch every night.
24:29 --> 24:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Then you remember, oh yeah, you go through stretches like this.
24:33 --> 24:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Where you watch your team, not score against the angels and then you realize, why do we watch this sport again?
24:39 --> 24:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, at least they're going to a prime run scoring environment against team that can't pitch next.
24:45 --> 24:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, right.
24:45 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, they've got, they've got a bunch of minor league arms.
24:48 --> 24:50 [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to be facing the next series, right?
24:50 --> 24:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's a bunch of bunch of whole shit pitchers are going to go up against.
24:55 --> 24:58 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we need a positive topic to help ourselves feel better.
24:59 --> 25:02 [SPEAKER_00]: You might want to contextualize who they're facing, because you unless you want me to do it.
25:02 --> 25:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, DeGrom, it's the first one on Monday.
25:06 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_01]: When this episode comes you're out, it's DeGrom Gilbert.
25:09 --> 25:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Mackenzie yours on Wednesday and then native Aldi.
25:12 --> 25:13 [SPEAKER_01]: It's on Tuesday.
25:13 --> 25:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It is native all day on Tuesday.
25:15 --> 25:17 [SPEAKER_00]: She gets a gram of all the gore.
25:18 --> 25:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Gore, by the way, not just a good picture, but a lefty who the mayor has done.
25:22 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_01]: The mayor has had done nothing against all year so far.
25:26 --> 25:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's very positive.
25:27 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a very positive new element.
25:29 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And global, I feel one of the worst places in all baseful to hit.
25:33 --> 25:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so good luck.
25:35 --> 25:35 [SPEAKER_01]: That's great.
25:35 --> 25:36 [SPEAKER_01]: It should be positive.
25:36 --> 25:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Speaking of positive, I do think we need a positive topic, but first, let's pause for a net.
25:43 --> 25:46 [SPEAKER_01]: We always want our listeners to be informed about the Game of Baseball and the Mariners.
25:46 --> 25:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Believe it or not, there was a time where we had to learn what catch probability was, or why a manager only uses his clothes there in the night in it.
25:52 --> 25:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's our goal to make sure everyone understands these things when they listen to us.
25:56 --> 25:58 [SPEAKER_01]: You can think about accidents and Davis law group the same way.
25:58 --> 26:01 [SPEAKER_01]: They want you to know your rights in the case of an accident.
26:01 --> 26:06 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why Chris Davis, founder of the Davis law group, wrote a series of Washington accident books.
26:06 --> 26:11 [SPEAKER_01]: He turned common questions into easy to understand books to help people navigate the process.
26:11 --> 26:15 [SPEAKER_01]: and they've given away over 100 free copies to people across Washington.
26:15 --> 26:17 [SPEAKER_01]: They want you to be informed.
26:17 --> 26:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Divis law group has been representing accident victims since 1994.
26:20 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_01]: They're one of the top rated locally owned personal injury firms on Google, and their in-house investigation team can handle complex cases, and will prepare every claim like it's going to trial.
26:31 --> 26:36 [SPEAKER_01]: They only take cases when they believe they can truly help, and you don't pay a fee unless they get you a result.
26:36 --> 26:39 [SPEAKER_01]: If you've been injured and want to better understand your options,
26:39 --> 26:43 [SPEAKER_01]: You can request a free no obligation case evaluation with their team.
26:43 --> 26:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Just click the link in our bio or visit dlgcaddle.com slash baseball to learn more.
26:48 --> 26:52 [SPEAKER_01]: That's dlgcaddle.com slash baseball to learn more.
26:55 --> 27:05 [SPEAKER_01]: We got to talk about him again Emerson Hancock got a second start of the season on Saturday and he looked really good again He he he was up there.
27:05 --> 27:06 [SPEAKER_01]: He was throwing babies
27:06 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_01]: and outside of a lead off home run to Zack netto man he looked efficient and he looks very much like he didn't his first start he looked like a different guy
27:16 --> 27:22 [SPEAKER_00]: So my question to all the people out there is when are you going to start to believe in Emerson Hancock?
27:22 --> 27:23 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't apply this.
27:23 --> 27:26 [SPEAKER_00]: We've been Emerson Hancock believers forever and always.
27:27 --> 27:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And will always be.
27:28 --> 27:34 [SPEAKER_00]: But when do the people, when does the mass population start to buy into the Emerson Hancock height?
27:34 --> 27:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I understand if you're not there yet through two starts.
27:37 --> 27:41 [SPEAKER_00]: But if he does this through April, are you bought in then?
27:41 --> 27:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you still need to see more?
27:44 --> 27:51 [SPEAKER_00]: because it's not just that he's throwing up zeros, but he's throwing up zeros in a way that he never really has before.
27:51 --> 27:53 [SPEAKER_00]: He is truly missing that.
27:54 --> 27:55 [SPEAKER_00]: He is racking up strikeouts.
27:55 --> 27:57 [SPEAKER_00]: He is doing so efficiently.
27:57 --> 28:02 [SPEAKER_00]: He, like his fastballs look legitimately dynamite right now.
28:02 --> 28:03 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not getting hit.
28:03 --> 28:05 [SPEAKER_00]: That two seamer of his is not being touched.
28:06 --> 28:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not like he's only thrown four two seamers or something like that all year.
28:10 --> 28:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Right now, he's throwing his two seam fastball.
28:12 --> 28:18 [SPEAKER_00]: About 17% of the time, and opponents are slugging O63 against it.
28:19 --> 28:24 [SPEAKER_00]: People are not hitting Emerson Hancock right now, specifically his fastballs, which have been hit very hard in years past.
28:27 --> 28:29 [SPEAKER_01]: the best way to summarize Emerson Hancock right now.
28:30 --> 28:36 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like he's putting up the same data we've seen before with much better results, because that would be something we'd say.
28:37 --> 28:38 [SPEAKER_01]: He's thrown the ball well as first two starts.
28:39 --> 28:43 [SPEAKER_01]: The result has been good, but the data suggests he's going to go backwards.
28:43 --> 28:46 [SPEAKER_01]: The data is different on Emerson Hancock.
28:46 --> 28:48 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I was waiting for the second start.
28:48 --> 29:01 [SPEAKER_01]: We'd finally get a handful of innings worth of data to look at and say, okay, what is, what is about different about Emerson Hancock from 2025 to 2026 and is it tangible?
29:02 --> 29:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And at very least, for his two fastballs, I can say that yes, there is a difference to this.
29:09 --> 29:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think Emerson Hancock's going to keep up the strikeout rate in the walk rate is rolling out this year because right now Emerson Hancock has a 33% strikeout rate in a 2% walk rate.
29:21 --> 29:25 [SPEAKER_01]: That is tarick school, that's what tarick school essentially did last year.
29:25 --> 29:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was like 33% and 4% for tarick school, that was the breakdown of that.
29:31 --> 29:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to use Jacob DeGrom, but same idea.
29:35 --> 29:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Emerson's not going to do that because if you look at his individual pitches, none of them get whiffs at that high of a rate, right?
29:42 --> 29:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Emerson Hancock is highest whiff rate pitch right now as a sweeper.
29:45 --> 29:51 [SPEAKER_01]: It's 29 percent, which in the terms of great strikeout pitches, that's not very high.
29:52 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_01]: However, for Emerson Hancock's standards of what he's done in the past,
29:57 --> 29:59 [SPEAKER_01]: it's much higher.
29:59 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_01]: The wiff rate overall on especially his fastball is much higher than it was in season's past.
30:07 --> 30:11 [SPEAKER_01]: A good example of a great strikeout pitch is Logan Gilbert's splitter.
30:11 --> 30:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I need to confirm this because I don't remember exactly what it is.
30:15 --> 30:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the swing
30:19 --> 30:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's say, I mean, it's not a deep person, something crazy.
30:23 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, last year was 50% that right there was a dynamite strike out pitch where no matter what you can throw it and more likely than not you're going to swing and miss.
30:31 --> 30:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think Emerson Hancock quite has that, but what he does have are trends in a positive direction of his arsenal that I think are due to some of the tweaks he made in the off season.
30:40 --> 30:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Listen this.
30:42 --> 31:07 [SPEAKER_01]: foreseen fast will you'll probably talk about a sinker let me talk about his foreseamer straight straight fast well that actually the way they're talking about on the broadcast sounds like it has a little cut on it now so his foreseen fast ball last year in 2025 had an average spin rate 2388 and had a generated a 10% with rate this year in 2026 that foreseen fast ball has
31:07 --> 31:16 [SPEAKER_01]: lifted, it's spin rate to 2519 and it's generating almost three times as many whiffs, 29% whiff rate on that pitch.
31:17 --> 31:18 [SPEAKER_01]: That is different.
31:18 --> 31:21 [SPEAKER_01]: That is a different Emerson Hankock than what we've seen.
31:22 --> 31:28 [SPEAKER_00]: In English terms, Emerson Hancock is throwing his fastball with more spin and missing more bats.
31:28 --> 31:29 [SPEAKER_00]: It's that simple.
31:29 --> 31:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Much more than he's ever missed in years past.
31:32 --> 31:34 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why guys love a spider attack.
31:34 --> 31:52 [SPEAKER_01]: That is what essentially Emerson I don't think is using spider attack because he made some mechanical changes, but when guys would use the grip on the baseball, they would spin it a whole bunch more and if the more the ball spins, the harder it is to hit because
31:53 --> 32:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't think a spider-tack without thinking about the garret call quote which was the worst answer ever given in an interview maybe ever and whoever who ever set them up for that interview did not prepare him for the question because not no because if you remember it was in 2021 I believe
32:10 --> 32:17 [SPEAKER_00]: was with all the sticky stuff and the spider attack was starting to get out lot in baseball and a reporter asked Garacol.
32:17 --> 32:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, have you ever used spider attack wall pitching?
32:19 --> 32:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Just point blank blatantly.
32:21 --> 32:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And Garacol legitimately was a deer in headlights.
32:24 --> 32:28 [SPEAKER_00]: He's going, um, I don't, I don't know, I don't know.
32:28 --> 32:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I don't know how to answer that to be honest.
32:32 --> 32:33 [SPEAKER_00]: That was his answer.
32:34 --> 32:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, did you not think you were going to get asked at some point about it?
32:37 --> 32:39 [SPEAKER_00]: You could have just said,
32:40 --> 32:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Or you could have said, look, there's, I mean, there had to have been some PR train to answer against that.
32:45 --> 32:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Where it's like, look, there's been a lot of stuff in the game.
32:47 --> 32:49 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of guys have taken care with a lot of different things.
32:50 --> 32:53 [SPEAKER_00]: But now we're getting to a point where, you know,
32:53 --> 32:57 [SPEAKER_00]: we're gonna have to figure different stuff out because other things are gonna be outlawed now.
32:57 --> 33:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Like there was a way, there was a PR answer to spin your way around now, the care call, oh my god.
33:01 --> 33:07 [SPEAKER_00]: He was just a deer in headlights and that answer with no sense of himself, essentially, because he didn't know how to answer it.
33:08 --> 33:10 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, I don't think Emerson had cock-feet in my house.
33:10 --> 33:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Easy answer.
33:11 --> 33:11 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
33:13 --> 33:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, you see how I, what are they gonna do?
33:16 --> 33:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not like you're lying about using steroids.
33:18 --> 33:19 [SPEAKER_00]: That's different.
33:19 --> 33:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Like spider-tack, whatever, if you just said no, it's probably the end of it.
33:22 --> 33:28 [SPEAKER_01]: There, yeah, at that point, like you can't go back in the past and find spider-tack.
33:28 --> 33:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, he has a union to protect him.
33:30 --> 33:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Like yeah, down.
33:32 --> 33:43 [SPEAKER_00]: But while I don't think Emerson Hancock is using Spider-Tac by any means, I just think he's found way to add more spin to his fastball and is now missing more bats because both of his fastball has been incredibly effective.
33:44 --> 33:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I already talked about the two-seamer, but last year his two-seamer was getting hit, decently hard.
33:51 --> 34:07 [SPEAKER_00]: right now nobody's hitting it all and then you factor in the sweeper all of a sudden he's got three legit pitches that are really working for him in the past he's struggled to find even one or two that were just consistent and got him outs or soft contact now he's got
34:07 --> 34:18 [SPEAKER_00]: He throws more than three pitches if he wants to because sometimes ever send mixes in his change up briefly, he'll mix in his cutter sometimes, but those three pitches he's offering up right now.
34:18 --> 34:26 [SPEAKER_00]: The two fastballs in the sweeper, he's really got stuff working, and he's not getting hit hard, honestly.
34:26 --> 34:29 [SPEAKER_00]: That might be one of the biggest differences of his game so far.
34:29 --> 34:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Along with the swing and this, you know, he's gotten barreled up, decently hard in the early parts of his career.
34:35 --> 34:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Right now, guys aren't hitting him hard.
34:36 --> 34:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, hit the homer off him early, but as a whole, he's not getting hit hard.
34:41 --> 34:44 [SPEAKER_01]: The stuff just moves more to be honest.
34:44 --> 34:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Look, that's the simplest way to put it.
34:46 --> 34:47 [SPEAKER_01]: The stuff moves more in a positive way.
34:48 --> 34:51 [SPEAKER_01]: His sinker has four more inches of drop.
34:51 --> 34:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Vertical drop compared to last year.
34:53 --> 34:55 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the difference of a barrel of a bat.
34:56 --> 34:56 [SPEAKER_01]: right there.
34:57 --> 35:01 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a difference between a guy, a teen y'all for a home run and swing and miss.
35:02 --> 35:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:02 --> 35:03 [SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty big.
35:03 --> 35:04 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no two polar opposite results.
35:05 --> 35:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:05 --> 35:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And even in a second start against the angels, which if you have to compare the two was a worst start than the one against the guardians?
35:12 --> 35:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:12 --> 35:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you have to pick, because he gave up a run, he missed another 13 bats.
35:18 --> 35:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Like he got 13 more swings and misses than that start, which is a good number.
35:22 --> 35:23 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a very, very good number.
35:24 --> 35:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's a stat for you, 2025.
35:26 --> 35:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Emerson Hancock had 12 plus whiffs in three starts.
35:30 --> 35:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Emerson Hancock in 2026, 32 for 2.
35:32 --> 35:37 [SPEAKER_01]: 3x22 starts last year, 2 out of 2 starts this year.
35:38 --> 35:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Look, man, I know we've been nerdin' out with the numbers here for the last few minutes.
35:41 --> 35:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm gonna shift it a little bit.
35:43 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_00]: We talked about it after the last start.
35:45 --> 35:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to bring it up again.
35:46 --> 35:48 [SPEAKER_00]: He keeps throwing like this.
35:49 --> 35:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's going to be some interesting conversations one way or another.
35:52 --> 35:54 [SPEAKER_00]: When Bryce Miller gets healthy.
35:54 --> 35:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know exactly how they're going to manage it all.
35:57 --> 36:02 [SPEAKER_00]: But if Emerson Hancock has another three starts like this, I just
36:03 --> 36:04 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what you do in that scenario.
36:05 --> 36:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I know some people might say, well, it's only a handful of starts.
36:08 --> 36:09 [SPEAKER_00]: You move them out of the rotation.
36:09 --> 36:19 [SPEAKER_00]: If he's legitimately winning you games, which he has through two outings, or at least has done his part two, I don't know how you just send him back to Tacoma.
36:19 --> 36:20 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't, you put him in the bullpen.
36:21 --> 36:25 [SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna spend some time talking about this bullpen at the end of the podcast.
36:25 --> 36:32 [SPEAKER_01]: If the problem with the bullpen is that there are not enough good pictures in the bullpen, then the Mariners need to put a good picture in the bullpen.
36:33 --> 36:35 [SPEAKER_00]: again, they do, but I don't know.
36:35 --> 36:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, if he's got a 1 9 ERA through the month of April, if he's legitimately winning you games, or even let's say a 2 2 ERA.
36:45 --> 36:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how you definitively say, yeah, bullpen.
36:50 --> 36:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I think some things might have to get worked out.
36:52 --> 36:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it might take Emerson Hancock to have a couple of bad starts before you say, okay, you are gonna go to the bullpen.
36:59 --> 37:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Because right now, like that is legitimately, that is legitimate value.
37:03 --> 37:04 [SPEAKER_00]: He is providing to your team.
37:05 --> 37:09 [SPEAKER_01]: But he could be very valuable in a bullpen that does not have enough valuable arms.
37:09 --> 37:13 [SPEAKER_00]: But then you've essentially cut off his ability
37:13 --> 37:15 [SPEAKER_00]: work in duration for the rest of the year.
37:16 --> 37:20 [SPEAKER_00]: If you turn into a bullpen arm, it's hard to just convert him back into a starter in the middle of the season.
37:20 --> 37:22 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why this is a tough conversation.
37:22 --> 37:24 [SPEAKER_00]: You convert him to a bullpen arm in May.
37:24 --> 37:31 [SPEAKER_00]: He's got to be a bullpen arm the rest of the year, because you can't go from starter to then reliever to back to starter and then reliever.
37:31 --> 37:32 [SPEAKER_00]: That's too much changing in the garden.
37:33 --> 37:35 [SPEAKER_00]: You got to commit somewhere.
37:35 --> 37:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It's one thing to work as a starter in spring training and then start the years of reliever.
37:41 --> 37:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Teams will do that with pitchers.
37:42 --> 37:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's much easier to transfer your workload from starter to reliever.
37:48 --> 37:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Guys do that.
37:49 --> 37:58 [SPEAKER_00]: But to go from reliever back to starter, especially in the middle of the year, I don't know that somebody can confidently snap their fingers and do that.
37:59 --> 38:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is why this is going to be a really interesting decision.
38:01 --> 38:03 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm going to say, what else could they do?
38:04 --> 38:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, do you go to a six man?
38:06 --> 38:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know?
38:07 --> 38:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you put price in the bullpen?
38:09 --> 38:09 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
38:11 --> 38:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm asking questions.
38:13 --> 38:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So that ends up with Emerson Hancock in the bullpen.
38:16 --> 38:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Why do you think they wouldn't go to a six man?
38:19 --> 38:21 [SPEAKER_01]: because that leaves the momentum in their bullpen.
38:22 --> 38:22 [SPEAKER_01]: It does.
38:22 --> 38:25 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners aren't better with a six-man rotation.
38:25 --> 38:28 [SPEAKER_01]: It also throws off the routine of your entire rotation.
38:28 --> 38:36 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a reason why these guys are trained to be in a five-man rotation when they're at the big league level, so they always pitch every five days.
38:36 --> 38:42 [SPEAKER_01]: The only guys who get catered to a six-man rotation are the pictures that come over from Japan.
38:42 --> 38:52 [SPEAKER_01]: because they're established, they're already pros, they've already played at the highest level, and you're paying them a fuck ton of money, so they're obviously going to be like, yeah, I'd want to pitch in a six year and rotate you like, all right, sounds good.
38:53 --> 38:56 [SPEAKER_01]: The rest of these guys know, I think they want to pitch in a five-man rotation.
38:56 --> 38:58 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, I don't think the Mariners are better with a six-man rotation.
38:59 --> 39:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I would rather have Emerson Hancock pitching more often out of the bullpen and rolls that clearly the Mariners need.
39:05 --> 39:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Emerson Hankock would have been perfect to pitch out of the mayor's bullpen here on Sunday.
39:11 --> 39:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, they did not frankly did not have enough arms to cover the endings and keep the angels from scoring runs.
39:17 --> 39:22 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you take Emerson Hankock as a starter, you dial the stuff up 20% because he's not throwing as much.
39:23 --> 39:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you go to attack those hitters, I think it'd be pretty valuable.
39:27 --> 39:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Alright, I'll say something kind of crazy.
39:29 --> 39:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of.
39:30 --> 39:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember when they put Felix in the bullpen in 2018?
39:34 --> 39:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I actually don't remember that, but, okay, continue.
39:37 --> 39:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it got so bad toward the end in a year where they were supposed to be competitive.
39:41 --> 39:45 [SPEAKER_00]: He lost his job in the rotation, and they put him in the bullpen.
39:46 --> 39:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I try and black out the second half of the season.
39:49 --> 39:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, it was pretty traumatic for me.
39:52 --> 40:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Considering that was the closest we ever got to thinking our team was going to the playoffs and then, just- They still missed by 10 games.
40:01 --> 40:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Not only did they just collapse, but that AIDS second half run was absurd that year.
40:05 --> 40:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, any chance the least just becomes a long reliever and for the time being, if he's not pitching well, when Bryce comes back, hmmm.
40:15 --> 40:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, let me hammer this home.
40:17 --> 40:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Emerson Hancock keeps pitching like this.
40:19 --> 40:21 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you and good faith, Yankeh him out of the rotation?
40:22 --> 40:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, if this all comes back to Earth for Emerson, yes, it's an easier decision.
40:26 --> 40:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Either it goes to Tacoma, or it goes to the bullpen, some solution is made.
40:30 --> 40:44 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you do something like put your war starter through a month, into the bullpen as a long reliever, and then with an injury or with somebody else struggling, you change it back up, I mean, that leaves everybody stretched out.
40:45 --> 40:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I just, again, if everything keeps throwing like this, I don't know how you just yank them out.
40:52 --> 40:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I just don't see the Mariners ever doing that.
40:55 --> 40:59 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's a lot of money to be paying a long reliever,
40:59 --> 41:03 [SPEAKER_00]: If Emerson has five to six starts like this, let me say it again.
41:03 --> 41:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I think real conversation will have to be had.
41:09 --> 41:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I just, I'm, because like it's a conversation, I just don't see it a conversation worth having because I put the percentage change of that happening at zero percent.
41:19 --> 41:21 [SPEAKER_00]: But you set it yourself a few minutes ago.
41:21 --> 41:26 [SPEAKER_00]: This is not Emerson Hancock putting together the same process and the same data with similar results.
41:27 --> 41:29 [SPEAKER_00]: We're seeing legit strides here.
41:29 --> 41:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And if we're based on this off two starts, right?
41:34 --> 41:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a lot of time to go, and there's a lot of starts to be had and a lot of information to take in.
41:40 --> 41:44 [SPEAKER_00]: But if Louise Castillo,
41:45 --> 42:03 [SPEAKER_00]: doesn't pitch great through a month in ever since pitching really well and you want price miller in the rotation and you only want to throw five guys at a rotation something's got to give and you might say a lot of guys on the team might scratch their heads and not love the idea of of Luis getting moved to the bullpen.
42:04 --> 42:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I would also counter it and say I think a lot of people would also scratch their heads if you have a starting pitcher who's just dominating through a month and then that's it.
42:14 --> 42:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a little premature to talk about moving Castillo to the bullpen.
42:17 --> 42:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we're talking about this because that's what he did today.
42:20 --> 42:25 [SPEAKER_01]: But Luis Castillo has, I mean, Luis Castillo hasn't even been the Mariners.
42:25 --> 42:26 [SPEAKER_01]: We're starting so far.
42:27 --> 42:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I was just using him as the example.
42:29 --> 42:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But again, does he have a great first start?
42:31 --> 42:31 [SPEAKER_00]: He did.
42:32 --> 42:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So.
42:33 --> 42:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm using I was using him as an example share share does the mayor's work and we were if we were to make the discussion are the mayor is going to move their worst starter to the bullpen for price miller to come back and keeping emerson hankock in the rotation unfortunately the answer to that question will be putting Logan Gilbert in the bullpen which is not happening that's not going to happen that's a little different
42:56 --> 42:59 [SPEAKER_01]: It is a little different and they're trying to extend Logan.
42:59 --> 43:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure and putting him in the bullpen would assure he's not signing an extension.
43:03 --> 43:06 [SPEAKER_00]: And that conversation legitimately would never happen.
43:06 --> 43:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Because with Logan, when he's at his best, he's a number one starter.
43:11 --> 43:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Luis is not a number one starter anymore.
43:14 --> 43:19 [SPEAKER_00]: You know that what he can do is, let me make sure I say this the right way.
43:19 --> 43:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Look, he's still a lot of, in a lot of starts.
43:21 --> 43:26 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll give you six and two.
43:27 --> 43:36 [SPEAKER_00]: But we also know, Luis in the last few years hasn't trended terribly, but he's not trending upwards.
43:37 --> 43:45 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, he didn't crush against lefties and he struggles away from home and his stuff is not the same and his change up isn't there anymore.
43:45 --> 43:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying like, I don't know what it's gonna look like for a month, but I'm just saying if Emerson Hancock is really
43:52 --> 44:15 [SPEAKER_00]: down to revelation where he is this good or some version of this good if he is a two five year a three month I don't know man I like I don't think it's the I don't think you just what the snappy finger say yeah that's it he's going to the bullpen I think a mayor as well I don't know I'm I'm sitting your thinking today that the Mariners
44:16 --> 44:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, don't even with the new stuff wouldn't view Emerson Hancock on the level of Luis Castillo until he does this for full seasons.
44:25 --> 44:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Because you don't, especially in a game like baseball, which requires such
44:31 --> 44:47 [SPEAKER_01]: a volume of games and starts and pitches to properly evaluate players, that even a really good month for Emerson Hancock would not cause him to bump Luis Castillo out of the rotation and I will use Luis as an example himself.
44:48 --> 44:51 [SPEAKER_01]: We watched the playoffs start last year of him against Max Scherzer.
44:51 --> 45:00 [SPEAKER_01]: You had the best pitcher in baseball in the month of September in Luis Castillo, facing
45:01 --> 45:02 [SPEAKER_01]: what happened.
45:03 --> 45:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Anything can happen.
45:05 --> 45:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying it'd be permanently, but if he's on this hot run, why not keep letting him go?
45:11 --> 45:14 [SPEAKER_00]: At least until he's reached the point where you've deemed that
45:15 --> 45:17 [SPEAKER_00]: He's not one of your five best starters anymore.
45:18 --> 45:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Then you can move them.
45:19 --> 45:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you have to re-stretch out Luis Castillo.
45:21 --> 45:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's why he's a long reliever.
45:23 --> 45:24 [SPEAKER_00]: He's not a one-in-ing guy.
45:25 --> 45:27 [SPEAKER_01]: But you can't guarantee that long relievers get in the game.
45:28 --> 45:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Because the way the mayor's rotation is set up, Luis could go days and days and days without throwing.
45:34 --> 45:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And it changes his routine, too.
45:35 --> 45:38 [SPEAKER_01]: This is why on a game.
45:38 --> 45:39 [SPEAKER_01]: There's also, by the way, dog.
45:39 --> 45:43 [SPEAKER_01]: There has to be a clause in his contract that say he has to be a starting pitcher.
45:43 --> 45:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I guarantee it.
45:45 --> 45:47 [SPEAKER_01]: This is not something he gets put publicly.
45:48 --> 45:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure within reason there's something in his contract that says he needs to start.
45:52 --> 45:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, don't you, then why wasn't there a clause in Felix's contract?
45:57 --> 45:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Times have changed.
45:57 --> 45:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Diver enough, front office too.
45:59 --> 46:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Have, have they?
46:00 --> 46:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
46:01 --> 46:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if there's a clause.
46:03 --> 46:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that's like standard, but I would be kind of surprised, especially someone who has a new trade clause and is making as much money as he is.
46:10 --> 46:13 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't, for a regular season, you're like, hey, in the regular season, I'm a starter.
46:13 --> 46:14 [SPEAKER_01]: You're signing me to be a starter.
46:15 --> 46:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanna start.
46:18 --> 46:23 [SPEAKER_00]: This is why I honestly think this is a fascinating conversation because there's layers to it.
46:23 --> 46:24 [SPEAKER_00]: There's not a perfect answer.
46:25 --> 46:31 [SPEAKER_00]: There is the element of, if you move Emerson to the bullpen, it's gonna be hard to turn him back into a starter again
46:32 --> 46:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And the idea of the mariners having their usual five starters so established.
46:37 --> 46:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
46:37 --> 46:42 [SPEAKER_01]: It's an interesting conversation, but I don't want to worry about putting Emerson back in the rotation.
46:42 --> 46:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I want the current five guys who are in the rotation, whereas good as Emerson looks right now through two starts, the five guys in the rotation.
46:51 --> 47:01 [SPEAKER_01]: pitching at their best or the five best starters they have in the organization, so they should put those guys in the rotation and have Emerson Hancock play his stuff up in the bullpen.
47:01 --> 47:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's another problem.
47:02 --> 47:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Emerson might come across when he starts.
47:07 --> 47:11 [SPEAKER_01]: His arsenal right now is tailored to beat right handed hitters.
47:12 --> 47:18 [SPEAKER_01]: What happens when he faces a lineup that has multiple elite left handed bats in it to take advantage of his stuff?
47:19 --> 47:25 [SPEAKER_01]: The way to attack lefties, if your right-handed starter, is to have a dynamite fastball in a really good change up.
47:26 --> 47:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Emerson throws this change up, but as we can see through two starts, his three best pitches right now are as fastball, his sinker, and his sweeper.
47:35 --> 47:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Outside of Brian Wu, you can't just throw heaters and beat lefties all the time.
47:41 --> 47:42 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really, really difficult.
47:43 --> 47:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, but he's not like Wu, because his second most used pitch is his sweeper.
47:48 --> 47:49 [SPEAKER_01]: and I'll get to that point.
47:50 --> 47:52 [SPEAKER_01]: The sweeper is a pitch that is used to attack Rites.
47:53 --> 47:57 [SPEAKER_01]: You usually don't use a pitch breaking in on the hands of lefties to attack them.
47:57 --> 48:05 [SPEAKER_01]: You would have a pitch that goes away from them, which is why Logan Gilbert's pitch against lefties is a splitter and his pitch against Rites is his slider.
48:06 --> 48:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Pitches that break away from the barrel and away from the batter that he's facing.
48:10 --> 48:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Emerson right now does not have a off-speed pitch that breaks away from a left-handed hitter.
48:17 --> 48:21 [SPEAKER_01]: He has sinkers, but he uses sinkers to get round balls.
48:21 --> 48:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, against both Rites and lefties.
48:23 --> 48:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't really call that unless it's an 8070 80-grade sinker, a pitch that you would use to really attack a lefty.
48:32 --> 48:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe not, but with this whole conversation in its entirety, I think there's a big element you
48:41 --> 48:43 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not factoring injuries in here.
48:43 --> 48:46 [SPEAKER_00]: There's not going to be about you want those five starters to be in the rotation.
48:46 --> 48:49 [SPEAKER_00]: You want Emerson and his stuff to play it up in the bullpen to help the bullpen.
48:50 --> 48:51 [SPEAKER_00]: What happens if somebody gets hurt again this year?
48:52 --> 48:57 [SPEAKER_00]: And the odds of the Mariners five starters not making every start the rest of the way, which rarely ever happens.
48:57 --> 49:00 [SPEAKER_00]: You transfer Emerson to the bullpen and make him a reliever.
49:00 --> 49:04 [SPEAKER_00]: He cannot with the snap of his fingers, then go back to being a starter.
49:04 --> 49:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is why this is a fascinating conversation because it just keeps up and then you transfer them and then somebody else gets hurt, that's how you're left with Jonathan Diaz having to come up and start.
49:16 --> 49:26 [SPEAKER_01]: But the same conversation has had if you're yanking one of your current starters out of the rotation to make room for Brice Miller or making Brice Miller go to the bullpen.
49:26 --> 49:44 [SPEAKER_01]: what happens if someone else gets hurt and Bryce Miller's not stretched out because we decided to put him in the bullpen as opposed to Emerson just stays in the bullpen and is a valuable piece of that bullpen this year, which can by the way, still make him money, still make him a decent chunk of change if he's a really good reliever.
49:44 --> 49:50 [SPEAKER_01]: But with all the rest of guys in this rotation, they are always starters, a hundred percent.
49:50 --> 49:56 [SPEAKER_01]: If they're in the bullpen for some reason, and someone gets hurt, you have to put them back in the rotation.
49:56 --> 50:00 [SPEAKER_01]: No matter what, because that's what they're really good at, that's what they're best at.
50:00 --> 50:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I think Emerson could work in the bullpen, and it will still be really valuable to him, and it will keep him at the big league level, no matter what.
50:09 --> 50:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but I think it's something worth worth thinking about.
50:11 --> 50:14 [SPEAKER_00]: But again, what happens if there's an injury?
50:14 --> 50:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Because then what you've done with your depth, if there's an injury, is you've lost Logan Evans for the year, you traded Gerangelo Sanger and Emerson's now a reliever.
50:22 --> 50:23 [SPEAKER_01]: What is the other option?
50:25 --> 50:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Either, I guess we're going into coma, then he's not helping you win anything.
50:28 --> 50:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's either that or somebody's just got to be a longer reliever.
50:33 --> 50:40 [SPEAKER_01]: But again, then you run into the same problem, except these guys you have to put back in the rotation because they're starters.
50:41 --> 50:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I know, this is why this is a fascinating conversation.
50:44 --> 50:51 [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm saying out of all of these guys we've talked about, Emerson is the one where you could say, just stay in the bullpen and let your stuff play out.
50:52 --> 50:54 [SPEAKER_01]: But doesn't that seem like a little bit of a... Like a little bit of a... Like a little bit of a...
50:54 --> 50:56 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners need better bullpen arms.
50:56 --> 50:57 [SPEAKER_01]: They need more depth.
50:57 --> 50:59 [SPEAKER_01]: They need guys with swing and miss stuff.
51:01 --> 51:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you're running into a little bit of a risk if you do that, because again, you're sacrificing DEP and by the way, if he's this good as a starter, are you cutting him a little short?
51:13 --> 51:17 [SPEAKER_00]: No, but he needs to also do this for longer, but how's he going to do that?
51:17 --> 51:20 [SPEAKER_01]: That's just what it, that's just the reality of the situation.
51:20 --> 51:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, but how's he going to do that if he's in the ball plan?
51:22 --> 51:23 [SPEAKER_01]: 100%.
51:23 --> 51:24 [SPEAKER_01]: That it sucks.
51:25 --> 51:31 [SPEAKER_01]: But this is the Seattle Marital Sortation and
51:31 --> 51:42 [SPEAKER_01]: the manager's not just going to run with a six man rotation or put one of their established starters in the bullpen so we can get more of a data sample on embers and hangout that's not going to happen.
51:42 --> 51:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So once once the time arrives or Bryce Miller comes back and you have five starters your original five that you're going to have in the rotation.
51:51 --> 51:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately tough decisions get made and Emerson Hancock will not have enough of a sample size.
51:58 --> 52:02 [SPEAKER_01]: to justify booting one of your established starters out of the rotation.
52:03 --> 52:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, as we talk this through more and more, I honestly think he might just go back to coma.
52:09 --> 52:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It's too early in the year to put him in the bullpen.
52:11 --> 52:16 [SPEAKER_00]: If this were to happen in July and you think Kate Anderson's getting closer, Ryan Sloan's getting closer, maybe.
52:17 --> 52:23 [SPEAKER_00]: But in that scenario, he may just have to make a few starts into coma until he gets his chance again.
52:23 --> 52:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And I would buy that.
52:24 --> 52:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd buy that.
52:24 --> 52:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Like once you think Cade is ready and you have another starter in your eyes, ready to make a big league start.
52:31 --> 52:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
52:33 --> 52:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Then I'd feel more comfortable with that.
52:34 --> 52:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel kind of bad for Emerson because that essentially undercuts his rotation spot.
52:38 --> 52:40 [SPEAKER_01]: But you can make a lot of money as a reliever too.
52:41 --> 52:49 [SPEAKER_00]: But again, then in the scenario that he would go back to Tacoma for a couple of starts and say he gets his chance again and he has another few good starts.
52:51 --> 53:10 [SPEAKER_01]: then maybe then I don't like I don't know then maybe it's a conversation again because if he keeps proving himself at some point you have to sit there and say when is this real that's up that's why you pay everyone a lot of money to evaluate players it also depends how people in the mariner's rotation are pitching does determine slot if everyone in the mariner's rotation is pitching well
53:11 --> 53:12 [SPEAKER_01]: sucks.
53:13 --> 53:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Bad luck.
53:14 --> 53:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It's also why I think it's probably too early to put him in the bullpen.
53:18 --> 53:20 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like May is too early to be doing that.
53:21 --> 53:21 [SPEAKER_00]: In July, maybe.
53:22 --> 53:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, July you would put him in the bullpen.
53:25 --> 53:25 [SPEAKER_01]: If
53:26 --> 53:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Or are we allowed to complain about the bullpen if the Mariners decide to put it Emerson Hank if if we Let me I'll actually I'll just show this because you want to you want to give me as a starter and I said I'd be okay with putting him in the bullpen Are you allowed to complain about the bullpen if you want Emerson sent it to Coleman to stay stretched out of a starter instead of putting him in at in the bullpen knowing he could be a valuable piece there
53:51 --> 53:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yes, because we said there were leverage bullpen arms.
53:54 --> 53:56 [SPEAKER_00]: They needed to add this offseason and did 100%.
53:56 --> 54:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's potentially a lever drum sitting in their own system that you want them to put in Tacoma instead in their bullpen.
54:02 --> 54:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Has he, for position they already have five of and potentially six?
54:06 --> 54:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Although he didn't really show in September last year that he was a leverage bullpen arm.
54:11 --> 54:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Different arm.
54:13 --> 54:14 [SPEAKER_00]: He was a different pitcher last year.
54:14 --> 54:16 [SPEAKER_00]: We've been, we spent the last 20 minutes talking about it.
54:16 --> 54:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Although he's doing this as a starter.
54:20 --> 54:39 [SPEAKER_00]: right so imagine when he does this as reliever i think you can still complain about the bullpen because again it's awesome that emerson has made these transformations that has made these strides forward but you didn't go into the off season knowing that he was for sure gonna do that we said they need a more leverage bullpen arms and they didn't get them
54:40 --> 55:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And they still need more at the deadline, which we can close out this podcast by talking about the bullpen a little bit, but you have the option of having a guy who is clearly refined his stuff to add more swing and miss, add more spin, and you could put him in the bullpen, but the decision is you'd rather keep him as a backup option for a starter.
55:00 --> 55:01 [SPEAKER_01]: than pitching him more out of the bullpen.
55:01 --> 55:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, because you can't lose all your starters depth in May.
55:05 --> 55:05 [SPEAKER_00]: You cannot do that.
55:06 --> 55:11 [SPEAKER_00]: You are banking on five guys to make the rest of their starts, and then otherwise that's how you get Jonathan Diaz up.
55:11 --> 55:12 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't do that.
55:12 --> 55:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Fair point.
55:14 --> 55:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll see.
55:15 --> 55:21 [SPEAKER_01]: But at the very least, we will get to see more Emerson Hancock starts until Bryce Miller's back.
55:21 --> 55:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Do we know when Bryce is going back on his rehab assignment?
55:24 --> 55:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they seem to think he'll be back roughly at the end of April, maybe early May.
55:30 --> 55:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So again, as weeks go on and you start to get more information, more could formulate with this.
55:37 --> 55:37 [SPEAKER_00]: If,
55:38 --> 55:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just say Louise Castillo.
55:40 --> 55:44 [SPEAKER_00]: If Louise Castillo had a bad month of start, and Emerson keeps dealing, maybe the conversation shifts.
55:45 --> 55:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Or if there's another injury, the conversation answers itself, because then Emerson stays in the rotation.
55:50 --> 55:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So, baseball has a pretty... Last year, yeah, baseball has a funny way of working these things out a lot of the time.
55:56 --> 55:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want that to happen, because obviously you want everybody healthy.
55:59 --> 56:00 [SPEAKER_00]: But...
56:00 --> 56:07 [SPEAKER_00]: As we get more of a sample, if he keeps this up, Emerson, again, I think the conversation is very fascinating.
56:07 --> 56:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Because again, you put him in the bullpen.
56:09 --> 56:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I do not think you can just transfer him back to being a starter with the snap of the finger.
56:13 --> 56:14 [SPEAKER_00]: You're committing to something for the rest of the year.
56:15 --> 56:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're going to do that, I think May's a little early to be doing that.
56:19 --> 56:23 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a good problem to have to be arguing about Emerson Hancock on April 5th.
56:26 --> 56:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, maybe this is where she just closed it out.
56:28 --> 56:31 [SPEAKER_00]: We might have ran out of time to talk about the bullpen other than struggled.
56:32 --> 56:33 [SPEAKER_01]: They struggled.
56:33 --> 56:39 [SPEAKER_01]: They weren't the story of the week and I didn't think Lao and I have been frustrated about the bullpen pretty much the entire season.
56:39 --> 56:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that just kind of carried over to this angel series.
56:43 --> 56:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And the story is the leverage guys look good.
56:49 --> 57:17 [SPEAKER_01]: then the other guys look okay like Jose Ferrer has such an interesting story his underlying numbers have been really good as expected era entering the start today or entering the start entering his appearance today has been good to be getting a lot of ground balls he hasn't given up a barrel yet he hasn't walked anybody but the results have been terrible for him so far I don't know how that's going to shake out the underlying numbers again I've been
57:18 --> 57:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody made this come to me today, one of our friends in our mariner's chats, but he said, Jose Ferrer essentially needs to prove that he's better than Caleb Ferguson, because otherwise it's no different than last year's bullpen.
57:32 --> 57:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Jose Ferrer was supposed to be a big upgrade from that.
57:34 --> 57:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And if he's only Caleb Ferguson, you didn't make much of an upgrade on the one bullpen arm you added this off season.
57:41 --> 57:43 [SPEAKER_00]: So I hope he's better than that.
57:44 --> 57:53 [SPEAKER_00]: The data says he should be better than that, but it's going to be a story to watch, because if he's not, again, like, we'll have more time to break down this bullpen.
57:53 --> 58:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, of other episodes where I'm sure we're talking about the bullpen, but I don't think we're going to let the Devon Williams conversation go.
58:00 --> 58:03 [SPEAKER_00]: At least not on this podcast, because we talked about him a lot, this offseason.
58:03 --> 58:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And talking about how to get that last true leverage arm.
58:07 --> 58:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And they didn't do that.
58:08 --> 58:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So on April 5th, it might be a little hard to gauge, but I don't think the name Devin Williams is going to die on this podcast this year because if the bullpen struggles, I'm going to keep bringing them up and say, yeah, I wish they'd signed them.
58:20 --> 58:24 [SPEAKER_01]: The gripe I had about the bullpen this weekend was the offense's fall.
58:24 --> 58:35 [SPEAKER_01]: The bullpen, the mayor goes through every single one of their lever to bullpen arms in the first two games of this angel series, because the offense didn't score any runs and they had to throw those guys to keep the game close.
58:36 --> 59:03 [SPEAKER_01]: and then you get to Sunday and everyone's already thrown in the series and it's hot or hot or and the Mariners run through there's underbelly bullpen arms first when Castio doesn't even go for innings and then in the final three innings of the game they had to throw moonios they had to throw brash they had to throw game and it didn't work yeah and that's how you got the results you got but I don't know if it was necessarily the bullpen's fault that it turned out that way it was the offense's fault yeah.
59:05 --> 59:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, here's to a sweep in Texas against the gromm of all the engore.
59:11 --> 59:16 [SPEAKER_01]: The season ended, so it's only right if the season is back for Wednesday's podcast.
59:17 --> 59:17 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I forgot.
59:19 --> 59:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say it's only up from here, but, well, they're facing the gromm of all the engore.
59:25 --> 59:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't be too frustrated if the Mariners also don't have a run through seven innings, tonight.
59:31 --> 59:31 [SPEAKER_01]: on Monday.
59:31 --> 59:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, against against the Grom?
59:33 --> 59:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
59:34 --> 59:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it might be tough.
59:36 --> 59:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I hope we're wrong, but yeah, we'll see.
59:41 --> 59:47 [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be a lot of pitchers doles in this series, but the arms that are going out for both sides, pitchers doles.
59:48 --> 59:48 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
59:49 --> 59:51 [SPEAKER_00]: That's just about wraps up this edition of the Marine Lair of Piedcast.
59:51 --> 59:52 [SPEAKER_00]: You guys know the drill.
59:52 --> 01:00:00 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to listen to the full form Piedcast, you can do so wherever you get your audio pods, make sure to go download these episodes if you're listening, go rate and review five stars.
01:00:00 --> 01:00:01 [SPEAKER_00]: It helps a ton.
01:00:01 --> 01:00:06 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're on YouTube, go hit subscribe, drop a like, leave a comment, it all helps.
01:00:06 --> 01:00:10 [SPEAKER_00]: You can go to our website, marinelairpod.com, where you'll find all of our merch.
01:00:10 --> 01:00:21 [SPEAKER_00]: our Patreon, which you can sign up for all of our episodes on our website too, over at marinelayerpod.com and then you can find us everywhere on social media at marinelayerpod.
01:00:21 --> 01:00:22 [SPEAKER_00]: That's TJ, I'm Lyle.
01:00:22 --> 01:00:24 [SPEAKER_00]: As always, we thank you guys for tuning in.
01:00:24 --> 01:00:25 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk to you soon.