Lyle and TJ react to the Mariners dropping the first two games in Texas, with another anemic performance from the offense (2:30). They then vented their Dan Wilson's decision-making in the 7th inning of game one, and ask why things like this are still happening (33:12). They close out the show discussing a disturbing trend with the Mariners offense (51:16).
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00:00 --> 00:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to episode number 387 of the Marine Lairer podcast.
00:03 --> 00:06 [SPEAKER_00]: The Mariners have lost the first two games in Texas.
00:07 --> 00:11 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about if we have any major concerns about the Mariners' offense going forward.
00:12 --> 00:33 [SPEAKER_01]: your guys reminder before we start this episode just go do as a huge favor if you're listening make sure you go download these podcast episodes and rate and review five stars if you're on YouTube go like comment and go hit subscribe it's right in front of you it's free it really supports the channel so go do that on YouTube you can check us out our website marinelayerpod.com the find all of our merch there you guys I just heard a story about
00:33 --> 00:37 [SPEAKER_01]: a pod fan seeing another pod fan wearing a hoodie at the gas station.
00:37 --> 00:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, Oh, how cool.
00:38 --> 00:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Means they're buying buy merch.
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00:51 --> 00:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's get it rolling.
01:05 --> 01:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Lair podcast part of the just baseball podcast network recording here on Tuesday evening April 7th The mayor's of scored three runs two games against the Texas Rangers.
01:21 --> 01:29 [SPEAKER_00]: They got a lead off home run on the first pitch at the game from Bernie Donovan and then almost nothing else after that
01:30 --> 01:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I know we're probably going to complain and talk about negative things a lot of the episode allow.
01:33 --> 01:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have anything positive to say?
01:36 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually just had a question to start the episode.
01:39 --> 01:40 [SPEAKER_01]: We have a fun yet everybody.
01:40 --> 01:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Woo!
01:42 --> 01:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
01:44 --> 01:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Isn't this what we yearned for in the off season?
01:46 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_00]: God, I just want a shitty week of Maritor's baseball so I can run into the Marine Layer Podcast DMs and complain.
01:54 --> 01:55 [SPEAKER_01]: And we get to read all of them.
01:56 --> 01:56 [SPEAKER_01]: You think we're kidding.
01:57 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_01]: You think we're being condescending or sarcastic.
02:00 --> 02:12 [SPEAKER_01]: No, we love when fans interact with us genuinely, because when people are sending us all these DMs, whether they're positive or negative, that means that people are fully engaged with Mariners baseball, which is what we want.
02:12 --> 02:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And we love.
02:13 --> 02:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So yes, if you just want to complain and send all these, and send all these pissed off messages in our DMs, go for it.
02:20 --> 02:21 [SPEAKER_01]: We want,
02:21 --> 02:24 [SPEAKER_01]: People will be passionate, and if that involves you vetting doc, go for it.
02:26 --> 02:28 [SPEAKER_00]: An unnamed D.M.R.
02:28 --> 02:32 [SPEAKER_00]: says, Where is the emotion from this team and why are we not bunting?
02:36 --> 02:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I love all our fans.
02:37 --> 02:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I love our listeners.
02:38 --> 02:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I do.
02:40 --> 02:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Please.
02:41 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Please, I'm begging people to not talk about bonding.
02:45 --> 02:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Like anything else, be mad about anything else.
02:48 --> 02:52 [SPEAKER_01]: But you try to talk about a team needing to bun with TJ and I.
02:53 --> 02:54 [SPEAKER_01]: You are gonna lose us.
02:54 --> 02:56 [SPEAKER_01]: To be fully transparent, you are gonna lose us.
02:56 --> 03:01 [SPEAKER_01]: If you try to talk to us about the Mariners need to be bonding because they don't.
03:02 --> 03:04 [SPEAKER_00]: They need to do is hit the baseball.
03:04 --> 03:06 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I would suggest.
03:06 --> 03:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Hitball, land and outfield, drive and run.
03:11 --> 03:11 [SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
03:13 --> 03:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I mean, and I think that's going to be a lot of the theme of this podcast.
03:17 --> 03:20 [SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of the conversations going to be right around that.
03:20 --> 03:29 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, before we like blindly just say no bunny, let's at least for the people walk through this scenario in the ninth inning tonight.
03:29 --> 03:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And why we think they shouldn't have bonded in the ninth inning here on Tuesday night.
03:34 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Point number one for me.
03:42 --> 03:47 [SPEAKER_00]: By the way, they should have already tied the game by the time a bun opportunity came around.
03:47 --> 03:49 [SPEAKER_00]: But Luke rarely didn't touch first base.
03:50 --> 03:51 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a pretty big mistake.
03:52 --> 03:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Number one, where you don't even need to bun in the game's tide.
03:56 --> 04:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I don't think, no, you wouldn't cause if he ends up on second, and then there's a single drive some in.
04:01 --> 04:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not totally sure he would have scored on JPE's single.
04:05 --> 04:08 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a pretty shallow single, and the uphill wasn't playing that deep.
04:09 --> 04:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure he makes it home.
04:10 --> 04:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I think he gets the third.
04:12 --> 04:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Even in that point, well then they're definitely not bunning cause then there's a runner on third.
04:16 --> 04:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
04:17 --> 04:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
04:18 --> 04:23 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the Mariners flew out twice in a row, which would have scored the wrong.
04:24 --> 04:26 [SPEAKER_00]: That's point number one.
04:26 --> 04:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Point number two, your options.
04:29 --> 04:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Once, Luke Rayleigh reaches and JP Crawford reaches, is you either have Dom Kan Zone Bunt, or you bring Leo Rivas off the bench to Bunt and Bunt only.
04:42 --> 04:48 [SPEAKER_00]: But I hate the idea of burning a bench player to get out on purpose.
04:50 --> 04:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It's I think a total waste of roster usage if that's what you're going to do.
04:55 --> 04:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And they didn't end up doing that.
04:57 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_00]: The other thing would have to be then have Dom Bunt.
05:01 --> 05:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it was last time you think Dom can zone Bunt in a baseball.
05:04 --> 05:06 [SPEAKER_00]: It was the last time you practiced the Bunt.
05:07 --> 05:08 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a great question.
05:08 --> 05:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Like question to all the people is that who you want bonding even if you think the strategy in this moment called for a Bunt is the scenario.
05:17 --> 05:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I laid out a realistic way that you think the mayor should have gone out Offensively in this game.
05:24 --> 05:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I like I don't I don't think so if by chance Lyle Leo Rivas was who's already in the lineup already in the game at this point
05:35 --> 05:37 [SPEAKER_00]: task to go to the plate in the spot Domkansome was in?
05:38 --> 05:40 [SPEAKER_00]: That is the scenario where I see a bunch.
05:41 --> 05:43 [SPEAKER_00]: He is the last guy on your roster.
05:43 --> 05:46 [SPEAKER_00]: He is the bat you probably trust the least.
05:47 --> 05:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why he bonds.
05:50 --> 05:53 [SPEAKER_00]: If it was Cole Young, the guy who hit right after Domkansome, I don't see that.
05:53 --> 05:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Cole Young's been your best player.
05:55 --> 05:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Why would he bond?
05:57 --> 05:59 [SPEAKER_00]: you want him to give you the lead if possible.
05:59 --> 06:02 [SPEAKER_00]: He's been the only one consistently making contact in driving in runs.
06:03 --> 06:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, him and Donovan, him and Donovan, him and Donovan, and then Donovan comes up right after that.
06:07 --> 06:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So you're not going to have either of those guys, but it's like there's only really one specific scenario there where I think you bought.
06:15 --> 06:16 [SPEAKER_01]: And I still would hate it.
06:16 --> 06:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I still wouldn't want Leo Rivas to bun.
06:18 --> 06:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I just hate it slightly less than every other scenario.
06:23 --> 06:28 [SPEAKER_00]: What should have happened is that the Mariners have guys stepped to the plate.
06:28 --> 06:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Three guys who have at times facing a righty, by the way, three lefties facing a righty in Jacob, Junus, their job is to hit right, righties, and three guys get out without a base hit.
06:41 --> 06:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a problem.
06:44 --> 06:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
06:45 --> 06:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, I don't want to argue some antics, but I don't know if Leo Reeves is the last guy on the roster.
06:50 --> 06:51 [SPEAKER_00]: You mean,
06:51 --> 07:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean a technicality is Garver is the last guy on the roster and there's probably a couple of bullpen arms Yeah, all right so Leo's twenty-third on the roster.
07:00 --> 07:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure I don't know if it changes much of that all right more of just a saying that's fair He's the last he's the second to last guy on the offensive roster behind the backup catcher That's probably right yeah Yeah, anyway
07:17 --> 07:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Not a fun last couple games.
07:19 --> 07:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Look, guys, both things can be true, right?
07:22 --> 07:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think they are.
07:24 --> 07:26 [SPEAKER_01]: It's extremely, extremely early.
07:26 --> 07:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And the record right now isn't that different than what it was last year.
07:32 --> 07:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And this has been a totally unwatchable offense through 12 games, both are true.
07:39 --> 07:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And do we have an answer of why the offense has been this bad?
07:43 --> 07:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I can tell you what the numbers say.
07:45 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think we'll talk about that a little bit later.
07:47 --> 07:49 [SPEAKER_00]: But why are they starting so cold?
07:50 --> 07:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea.
07:52 --> 07:55 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like they've been totally facing murderers row of pictures.
07:56 --> 07:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Peace and good ones.
07:58 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_00]: But no excuse for them, not really to hit.
08:01 --> 08:09 [SPEAKER_00]: The Rangers bullpen, by the way, last two nights has been running on absolute fumes and the Mariners haven't done anything against them.
08:10 --> 08:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Here are air goldsmith talking on the broadcast like yeah they're just multiple guys in the Rangers bullpen they physically can't throw because they've been using them so much does matter
08:21 --> 08:30 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like the only silver lining with the Mariners here through 12 games, as all their A level bullpen guys aren't getting totally taxed two weeks into the year.
08:30 --> 08:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Monios hasn't thrown that much, brash hasn't thrown that much, bizarre to engage, haven't thrown that much, so they're not in position to win games.
08:38 --> 08:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and that would be the other coin, the other side of the coin there, Teeds, is they're not in position to win games, so they don't throw.
08:43 --> 08:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And on top of that, their starters have actually net been really good.
08:48 --> 08:54 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, Logan had an interesting start on Monday, but it ended up being okay.
08:54 --> 08:58 [SPEAKER_00]: For the man, I mean, the Mariners only lost two to one, so how bad could it have been?
08:58 --> 09:03 [SPEAKER_00]: But George Kirby, here on Tuesday night, three to eight innings.
09:04 --> 09:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, the Kyle Hogashio-Kohom run was bad.
09:08 --> 09:12 [SPEAKER_00]: He threw a cookie right down the middle to him, and he belted it over the fence.
09:12 --> 09:14 [SPEAKER_00]: However, Kirby was so good he managed to get through eight innings.
09:15 --> 09:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's a f-ha.
09:16 --> 09:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you see the staff from Jage?
09:18 --> 09:21 [SPEAKER_00]: George Kirby isn't one in three games.
09:21 --> 09:23 [SPEAKER_00]: George Kirby throws at least eight innings.
09:24 --> 09:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I saw the stat that George Kirby now has two complete games in his career, and both are losses.
09:30 --> 09:36 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a very mariner stat, George Kirby and Felix.
09:36 --> 09:46 [SPEAKER_01]: It really is amazing, and look, Kirby threw them all really well tonight, the Kagashi Oka home run was not good, like you mentioned, but you go eight innings and give up three runs.
09:47 --> 09:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you should win a lot of those games, you should win most of those games.
09:51 --> 09:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And they did not.
09:52 --> 09:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they've scored three runs in this series, like you said.
09:55 --> 09:58 [SPEAKER_00]: The offense has been bad.
09:59 --> 10:03 [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's been bad and about every single way possible.
10:03 --> 10:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I think in the early part of the season, I'm looking at this offense, like, all right, cows cold, Julio's cold, nailers cold, they're striking out too much.
10:13 --> 10:13 [SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
10:14 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like there are some things that go a little bit beyond that with this offense.
10:19 --> 10:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, I'll hold that off here for a second because I feel like there's still some bigger picture things to talk about before we actually dive into the nitty gritty of the stats if you were following our social pages.
10:30 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_00]: By the way, if you're listening to this podcast and you don't follow set least on one social media platform, we'd love all, but if you don't follow on at least one.
10:38 --> 10:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I would recommend you go check out at Marine Lair pod.
10:41 --> 10:43 [SPEAKER_00]: We put out a bed view of content on there.
10:44 --> 10:46 [SPEAKER_00]: This podcast itself only comes out three times a week.
10:46 --> 10:49 [SPEAKER_00]: But on social we're posting twice a day every single day.
10:50 --> 10:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Learn all sorts of fun nuggets and facts about this team.
10:53 --> 10:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It could be a rant.
10:54 --> 10:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It could be a cheer and out.
10:56 --> 10:57 [SPEAKER_00]: It could be all sorts of things.
10:57 --> 11:03 [SPEAKER_00]: It could be something you're doing and incorporating into your everyday life, you should at Marine Lairpot.
11:03 --> 11:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, it could be interviewing a player, which we do plenty of on social media.
11:07 --> 11:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Could be the bright spot of the week.
11:09 --> 11:14 [SPEAKER_00]: It was the clip we put out of Cole Young, guessing his teammates baseball reference nicknames.
11:14 --> 11:17 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing is they're not just your standard interviews.
11:17 --> 11:25 [SPEAKER_01]: We try to do a lot of interactive funny questions to do something that most people don't do all the time with the players to show people a different side of them.
11:25 --> 11:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to guess most people that listen to this podcast follow us somewhere on social media.
11:30 --> 11:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I would hope.
11:30 --> 11:34 [SPEAKER_01]: But maybe there's a couple of people out there that don't realize how much we do on social.
11:34 --> 11:35 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, go follow on social media.
11:36 --> 11:40 [SPEAKER_00]: A big reason, uh, a big reason, I think it's good for people to follow us on social.
11:40 --> 11:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We talk about things pretty in depth here on this podcast, but if you want more of like a condensed version of it, we'll usually put it out on social in either a show clip or we'll just react and talk about a certain subject.
11:52 --> 11:53 [SPEAKER_00]: For example,
11:54 --> 12:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Both Lao and I today talked about big picture numbers with the entire Mariners offense and what concerns us From what we've seen this year and what the data tells us and the two social clips that we put out I thought were very informative and very good.
12:07 --> 12:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you want to check those out after listening to this episode here That we put those clips out on Tuesday.
12:13 --> 12:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I would recommend doing so.
12:16 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I really would
12:18 --> 12:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'd say the last big quick picture question I've had because multiple people have brought this up in the last two hours today.
12:25 --> 12:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think it matters that they're not starting hot?
12:30 --> 12:36 [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to say yes because they've just done this so many times and it doesn't end up making a difference.
12:36 --> 12:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Like last year, they still won the West in 190 games and were eight out from the World Series.
12:42 --> 12:57 [SPEAKER_01]: The problem here is one, just the mental side and all the psyche of the fans, I just want to see a hot start and not have to go through this again and having higher expectation and the floor raise and the bar raise for where this team supposed to be.
12:57 --> 13:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And while I don't think it ultimately matters all that much, a four and eight start is not inspiring to anybody.
13:04 --> 13:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I think people wanted to see this team start nine and three.
13:06 --> 13:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it could even be seven and four or eight and four.
13:09 --> 13:11 [SPEAKER_01]: And just hit the ground running from there.
13:11 --> 13:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't look back.
13:12 --> 13:13 [SPEAKER_01]: You just go.
13:13 --> 13:14 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not happening.
13:15 --> 13:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's my question, though.
13:16 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, so last year's team technically started slow, but they ended like being 2012 in the first 32 games.
13:23 --> 13:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that a slow start?
13:25 --> 13:27 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not, they turned it around.
13:27 --> 13:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, we know that team last year had its major major landslides when you got to the summer days, but yeah, by the end of April, they had turned it around.
13:37 --> 13:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, it's just funny sometimes how that works out.
13:41 --> 13:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, the first week was slow, but then everything after that wasn't slow at all.
13:46 --> 13:48 [SPEAKER_00]: in April, yeah.
13:48 --> 13:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So when does it's early go away when they start winning or when June 1st rolls around?
13:54 --> 13:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So that kind of like it kind of floats.
13:57 --> 13:59 [SPEAKER_01]: What's the barometer most people use by Memorial Day?
14:00 --> 14:02 [SPEAKER_01]: You start to have a pretty good idea of whoever team is.
14:02 --> 14:03 [SPEAKER_00]: June 1st.
14:04 --> 14:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Except for the 2018 Mariners, we know, well, they took a little longer.
14:09 --> 14:13 [SPEAKER_01]: No, they didn't, they were, they were great through Memorial Day and June 1st and they collapsed.
14:13 --> 14:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I know, what were they, what we thought they were by the end of the season?
14:17 --> 14:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, but that team, if you remember at one, what, like 30 games by one run or something ridiculous like that in the first half, it was probably last, but they won a lot by one run.
14:27 --> 14:28 [SPEAKER_01]: They were leading the league in one run wins.
14:29 --> 14:33 [SPEAKER_00]: That game was, that team was 56 and 32 on July 5th.
14:34 --> 14:38 [SPEAKER_00]: They make the play on this while this is something I totally forgot.
14:38 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know which teams started the downfall the 2018 Mariners?
14:43 --> 14:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Well the A's were the ones that had their ridiculous run in the second half and pass them.
14:48 --> 14:50 [SPEAKER_00]: It was the Colorado Rockies.
14:51 --> 14:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh good.
14:51 --> 14:55 [SPEAKER_00]: It lost two games at home to the Rockies.
14:56 --> 15:00 [SPEAKER_01]: To be fair, the Rockies and that time period were not the Rockies now.
15:00 --> 15:08 [SPEAKER_01]: They still had Charlie Blackman when he was good, and they still had Well, they had Trevor Nolan and they had Noah's.
15:08 --> 15:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was a good team Two runs in those two raw losses to the Rockies
15:14 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, yeah, it's not great.
15:16 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_00]: That's, it's not very good.
15:17 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_00]: But that team, it shows you, they started as well as possible.
15:22 --> 15:27 [SPEAKER_00]: They had one of the best starts in Mariners franchise history through July, it didn't happen.
15:29 --> 15:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's that people don't have any other data to judge this team off through 12 games.
15:35 --> 15:35 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what it's about.
15:35 --> 15:44 [SPEAKER_00]: The Mariners will probably have another prospect thing while instead of they've never disappointed you, this team has just always disappointed you.
15:45 --> 15:46 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what it is.
15:46 --> 16:06 [SPEAKER_01]: The truth is, the marital probably have another stretch at some point during the year where they're 4 and 8, but if they have a 4 and 8 stretch where they're 10 games over 500 and they go to 6 games over 500 or in some range of that, people won't freak out as much, but well, people freak out no matter what, but not as much as now.
16:07 --> 16:13 [SPEAKER_01]: When you don't have anything else to work off of, this is all you got and when it's all you got, you see this team's 4 games under 500.
16:15 --> 16:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think the record matters right now.
16:18 --> 16:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't.
16:18 --> 16:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I care more about, like, is this team get a bounce back?
16:23 --> 16:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Which I think, I think they will, if they change some things, that's kind of what I'm worried about more than, oh my god, they've already lost eight games.
16:32 --> 16:34 [SPEAKER_00]: The eight losses are, it is what it is.
16:35 --> 16:44 [SPEAKER_00]: You lost two of those games to apply off team in Cleveland, you lost two of those games to what looks like right now, the best team in the American League in the Yankees.
16:45 --> 16:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Now you did lose two games to Rangers, and you lost two games to the Angels, so that's not great.
16:57 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Before we get into all of the storylines with the offense and a lot of the numbers that go along with it, there are two other storylines that we're gonna dissect on this episode.
17:08 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Do we wanna do those first because this offensive story is so big and we're gonna probably spend some time on it or do you wanna save the other two stories for after?
17:15 --> 17:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's get through these couple of storylines first.
17:17 --> 17:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, number one, Randy Rosarena.
17:22 --> 17:26 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a problem in left field.
17:27 --> 17:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And while the early metrics don't totally back at all up, the eye test says it's getting worse.
17:34 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_01]: He has seriously misplaced four or five balls in the last week that may have cost to them runs.
17:42 --> 17:46 [SPEAKER_00]: He's OA right now is is 10th percentile.
17:46 --> 17:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's getting pretty close.
17:49 --> 17:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so it came down as of this morning.
17:51 --> 17:53 [SPEAKER_01]: It was the 30 second percentile.
17:53 --> 17:54 [SPEAKER_01]: That means it hadn't updated yet.
17:55 --> 17:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah, 10 percentile OA.
17:57 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_01]: That checks out.
17:58 --> 18:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there was a play in the Cleveland series that he did not take a good route on or misread.
18:05 --> 18:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And there was, so there was that.
18:07 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_01]: There was the ball in the
18:09 --> 18:13 [SPEAKER_01]: which was, again, another really, really tough play to watch.
18:13 --> 18:17 [SPEAKER_01]: And then these couple in the Ranger series, including the one that ended up being the deciding run.
18:18 --> 18:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And while Logan probably should have just put Jake Burger away because he had him at O2, I'm not saying none of it's on Logan because Burger did square Logan up for that hit.
18:26 --> 18:29 [SPEAKER_01]: But boy, didn't it look like Randy Arrows Arena?
18:29 --> 18:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Seriously, Miss Reddap Ball took a really poor angle to it.
18:34 --> 18:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Costumer run, it was a deciding run.
18:37 --> 18:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Randy Rosarina has had his defensive struggles in the outfield since he's been a mariner and for a lot of his career for that matter.
18:44 --> 18:47 [SPEAKER_01]: But it really feels like it's getting worse.
18:50 --> 19:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm not saying his defense is going to get any better, but this might also just be like prisoner of the moment, just this is the same thing as the offense, like this is all we have to see.
19:01 --> 19:06 [SPEAKER_01]: But the difference is, the difference is this offense is expected to be very good and by the end of the season should be very good.
19:07 --> 19:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Randy Rosarana's defense has never been good and it's continuously not good here to start this year.
19:14 --> 19:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not.
19:15 --> 19:16 [SPEAKER_00]: But we're talking about expectations though.
19:17 --> 19:18 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't expect his defense to be good.
19:20 --> 19:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like it sucks.
19:21 --> 19:23 [SPEAKER_00]: It's costing them runs clearly.
19:23 --> 19:30 [SPEAKER_00]: But the Mariners went into the season saying,
19:30 --> 19:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I do too.
19:32 --> 19:43 [SPEAKER_00]: However, the solution I think you're about to propose when Cold Emerson comes up and Brennan down and goes in the left field, you know who's all has the same I believe out above average as as Randy Rosarina right now.
19:43 --> 19:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I know it's at a different position.
19:46 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Donovan, Brennan Donovan right now, once it updates, he is even lower on OAA than Brandi Rosorinas.
19:57 --> 19:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, if anything, you're making my point with that.
19:59 --> 20:10 [SPEAKER_01]: You're making our point with that because if Donovan's not playing clean defense at third base, all the more reason he should go to not just a different position, but the position he's played the second most in his career.
20:10 --> 20:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Brennan Donovan of all the positions he's played in his career, he's played the most second base.
20:15 --> 20:16 [SPEAKER_01]: and behind that is left field.
20:17 --> 20:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's a perfectly average defender in left field.
20:19 --> 20:20 [SPEAKER_01]: He's not great.
20:20 --> 20:21 [SPEAKER_01]: He's not terrible.
20:21 --> 20:28 [SPEAKER_01]: He is right about league average for his career as a left fielder about 0 to 1 career defensive run saved.
20:29 --> 20:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's perfectly fine to have them out in the left field.
20:31 --> 20:33 [SPEAKER_01]: You have a cold Emerson at third.
20:33 --> 20:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Randy arose around and starts de-aching.
20:35 --> 20:46 [SPEAKER_01]: If on days where there's a left hander on the mound and maybe Emerson gets an off day or maybe the lineup shuffled around a bit and there's certain days Randy has to go out to left field.
20:46 --> 20:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but when there's a right hander on the mound when it's cold Emerson gets up,
20:53 --> 20:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I've just about seen enough of Randy Rosarana in my field.
20:57 --> 21:02 [SPEAKER_01]: He can de-h show put up his offense of numbers, Donovan will go to laps, cold Emerson will play third.
21:03 --> 21:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Which also solves the whole question of, well, how are you gonna fit everybody in when Emerson gets up, how are you gonna play cold?
21:09 --> 21:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And also find his spot for Donovan, and also get everybody the abats they need.
21:13 --> 21:14 [SPEAKER_01]: There is your answer.
21:15 --> 21:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Your answer is Randy's gonna be the de-h. Donovan's gonna play a position.
21:18 --> 21:22 [SPEAKER_01]: He's much more familiar with Emerson will play third
21:23 --> 21:25 [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.
21:25 --> 21:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So Randy Stevenson's bad, you always sit like we, in your words, we've seen enough of Randy Rose, Rana's defense, but the solution is then moving him out of left field in two months.
21:37 --> 21:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Look, you could do it earlier, but.
21:39 --> 21:50 [SPEAKER_00]: That seems like the most easy segue to the trend rate, because by the way, I think that was mostly just making the point of like it's bad, but it's not bad enough for there.
21:50 --> 21:52 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not going to bench him out of left field.
21:53 --> 22:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, not yet, but again, assuming this doesn't get much better by the time Cold Emerson comes up, because history is suggested that it won't.
22:01 --> 22:02 [SPEAKER_01]: It's time.
22:03 --> 22:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Look, you have needed Randy Arosarana to play left field because that's how the lineups worked itself out since he's been a member of your ball club as a mariner.
22:11 --> 22:16 [SPEAKER_01]: But once you have another solution with a guy that you're expecting to play every day in Cold Emerson.
22:17 --> 22:18 [SPEAKER_01]: it's it's just time.
22:19 --> 22:28 [SPEAKER_01]: The defense will benefit the lineup will benefit the team will benefit and it also gives you a solution going into next year too when you assume a rosaranda's not going to be around.
22:29 --> 22:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Emerson will ever say would probably play short.
22:32 --> 22:37 [SPEAKER_01]: But assuming a rosaranda's not back then as long as Donovan's good out in the left field he can just play a left field.
22:38 --> 22:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to add on a little nugget to this because it directly relates to this conversation.
22:43 --> 22:45 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll just put it out there.
22:45 --> 22:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Colt Emerson is not fixing this Mariners offense.
22:48 --> 22:54 [SPEAKER_00]: The solution to this is not to put Randy at DH and pull Colt up right now to play the hurt.
22:55 --> 22:56 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not fixing anything.
22:56 --> 23:04 [SPEAKER_00]: It will improve the defense and left field, but the thing about fixing defensive positions, it comes to play in the playoffs, really.
23:05 --> 23:13 [SPEAKER_00]: During the regular season, there's too many games and not enough chances for defenders for defense in my opinion, really hurt you.
23:13 --> 23:20 [SPEAKER_00]: In series that you need to win individual games of two advanced.
23:20 --> 23:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a little bit different The mirrors can survive and they did this last year by having crummy defense If over a long period of time your team is just talented and good, which this team should be Which is why like the Mariners?
23:34 --> 23:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think are gonna be running to yank Randy arose arena at a left field
23:38 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Another thing I'll ask you is, where is this on the Jesse Winker scale?
23:44 --> 23:45 [SPEAKER_00]: How close is Randy a Rosarina to that?
23:46 --> 23:47 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not quite there.
23:47 --> 23:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
23:48 --> 23:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he's the one.
23:49 --> 23:54 [SPEAKER_00]: He's one where you say, all right, we literally cannot play you in left field anymore.
23:55 --> 23:56 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
23:56 --> 24:01 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's about the worst we've seen, but Randy does not grade well in left field.
24:01 --> 24:01 [SPEAKER_01]: He just does.
24:01 --> 24:02 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
24:02 --> 24:05 [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't last year either, and he doesn't left him out there the whole year.
24:06 --> 24:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Jesse Winker looked like a complete liability every time he stepped foot on the grass in the outfield.
24:11 --> 24:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Arrows around it doesn't do it every game.
24:13 --> 24:16 [SPEAKER_01]: There's some games where he seems perfectly fine, sometimes even make a nice play.
24:17 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Make a diving catcher, a nice throw.
24:19 --> 24:25 [SPEAKER_01]: But the larger sample size shows that it just does not seem tenable for a long period of time.
24:25 --> 24:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And while it might not cost you a season, especially in early April, I mean, it's costing you games and it's costing you series.
24:32 --> 24:36 [SPEAKER_01]: He is seriously severely misread baseballs out in the outfield, which have led to runs.
24:37 --> 24:38 [SPEAKER_00]: The Mayor's offense is costing them series.
24:38 --> 24:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Not Randy Rosarina.
24:41 --> 24:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it can be both.
24:43 --> 24:45 [SPEAKER_00]: No, the mayor's offense is costing them serious.
24:45 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_01]: It is 90 something percent of the offense.
24:48 --> 24:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Randy Rosarina is responsible for what?
24:52 --> 24:53 [SPEAKER_00]: 30% of that play.
24:53 --> 24:56 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, I'll take, I'll take the serious thing out of it.
24:56 --> 24:58 [SPEAKER_00]: He is costing you runs by being out.
24:58 --> 25:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, sure, a hundred percent, yeah.
25:01 --> 25:02 [SPEAKER_00]: That, that I will agree with.
25:02 --> 25:12 [SPEAKER_00]: But things like that, I mean, it is picture, like it's pitch selection, it's location, it's, it's cow working with Logan, and then it's the ball getting hit, and then it's on Randy to catch the ball.
25:14 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, that's true, but you could also make some improvements to it, especially once Colt Emerson gets here, which again, just to reiterate with TJ said, Colt Emerson early on here in Tacoma, sitting really well, and you really love to see it.
25:28 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_01]: He is hitting the retan as we said here, recording tonight, and his OPS is over 830.
25:32 --> 25:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
25:34 --> 25:36 [SPEAKER_01]: that also does not mean to yank him up right now.
25:37 --> 25:41 [SPEAKER_01]: It is such an awesome sign that Colt Emerson doesn't seem to overwhelm by triple eye pitching.
25:42 --> 25:45 [SPEAKER_01]: But guys, let him do it for another four to five weeks.
25:46 --> 25:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Just let him be as ready as humanly possible, and then call him up.
25:50 --> 25:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, PCL stats aren't real.
25:52 --> 25:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So he's hitting well in the PCL, great.
25:56 --> 26:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But it that just doesn't like guarantee right now he's going to come up and hit majorly pitching the Mariners current roster all of whom would be the best player in the PCL if they're down there individually right now cannot hit majorly pitching so like give it a breath let him go until June and Tacoma and when he's ready he'll come up.
26:25 --> 26:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you want Colt Emerson to be hitting.
26:28 --> 26:32 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to not hit and triple A just because of the PCLs of Bambox league.
26:32 --> 26:34 [SPEAKER_01]: You still want him to hit, but you're right.
26:34 --> 26:37 [SPEAKER_01]: You can't just sit there and say, well, his OPS is high.
26:37 --> 26:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So, call him up.
26:38 --> 26:43 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a, there's a developmental piece of his game that is still being formulated.
26:43 --> 26:46 [SPEAKER_01]: So let him do that for another few weeks before he's ready.
26:46 --> 26:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And once he is ready, you're ready.
26:47 --> 26:49 [SPEAKER_01]: He's not going to save this offense.
26:49 --> 26:50 [SPEAKER_01]: He can help.
26:50 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think you should, or anybody should expect him to save the offense, because that's not fair.
26:54 --> 27:02 [SPEAKER_00]: While we're on the topic of AAA stats, do you care to comment on the screenshot of Jard Kelnick's AAA stats I saw the other day?
27:04 --> 27:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Dude, it's getting worse.
27:05 --> 27:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you see the one this morning?
27:06 --> 27:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no.
27:07 --> 27:08 [SPEAKER_01]: What was it?
27:08 --> 27:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's worse.
27:09 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I think I saw he's the single worst hitter in all of AAA right now.
27:16 --> 27:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's not good.
27:18 --> 27:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Poor Jared, man.
27:19 --> 27:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I know some people just get a riff out of Dunkin' on him.
27:24 --> 27:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I honestly just do feel bad for him.
27:26 --> 27:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And part of it's because I was so emotionally invested in him.
27:29 --> 27:37 [SPEAKER_01]: But I've said this before, and again, if we ever had more time for it, like for example, let me hang on before you say what you're gonna say.
27:38 --> 27:43 [SPEAKER_01]: If you will really wanna hear us dive in on Jared Kelnick a little bit, that is what our male bag episodes are for.
27:43 --> 27:48 [SPEAKER_01]: If somebody has a male bag question and wants to hear us dive in on Jared Kelnick a little bit,
27:48 --> 28:04 [SPEAKER_01]: and talk a little bit more, you know, a little bit more in detail about him and why it potentially didn't work here, we can, because I say with some confidence, I think a lot of people failed him.
28:04 --> 28:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Ultimately, it's on the player, and if the player doesn't play well, it's your career and it's on you to fix it.
28:09 --> 28:13 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think a lot of people fail Jared Kalnik and his career in his life, etc.
28:14 --> 28:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think he had some, again, I think there was some toxicity in his ears.
28:18 --> 28:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the Mariners didn't do right by him with his development in the end.
28:23 --> 28:24 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of reasons it didn't work.
28:25 --> 28:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of it's on him.
28:26 --> 28:29 [SPEAKER_01]: He was always very fiery, but
28:29 --> 28:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so just for some context for people, so Jared was in the Braves AAA affiliate last year at Gwynette.
28:38 --> 28:44 [SPEAKER_00]: He had a 595 OPS and 400 plate appearances, not great.
28:45 --> 28:49 [SPEAKER_00]: He gets to AAA Charlotte this year for the White Sox.
28:50 --> 28:54 [SPEAKER_00]: he has started the season one for twenty five of the one sixty five OPS.
28:55 --> 28:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not great.
28:56 --> 28:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I know.
28:56 --> 28:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel I can't.
28:58 --> 28:59 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about triple a stash.
28:59 --> 29:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Jared Killing crushed triple a Tacoma.
29:03 --> 29:03 [SPEAKER_00]: He crushed it.
29:04 --> 29:04 [SPEAKER_01]: He did.
29:05 --> 29:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, there are some stories about Kelling.
29:08 --> 29:10 [SPEAKER_01]: If you'll want to hear us tell them, you can submit a mailback question.
29:10 --> 29:15 [SPEAKER_01]: We can talk about it, especially since it's far enough gone now, where
29:15 --> 29:16 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he's not on the team.
29:16 --> 29:17 [SPEAKER_01]: He's not with the org anymore.
29:17 --> 29:21 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we can talk about some of the stuff we've heard regarding him if people are interested.
29:21 --> 29:23 [SPEAKER_01]: But, again, that's what mailbag stuffs for.
29:24 --> 29:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, to answer your Patrick Wisdom question, he's OPS thing about 1 in AAA right now.
29:30 --> 29:34 [SPEAKER_00]: I did see some people suggesting online that the Mariners need to call him up.
29:37 --> 29:38 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we might see him at some point.
29:39 --> 29:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's out of necessity, but
29:41 --> 29:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I might just see him because somebody gets injured at some point.
29:44 --> 29:48 [SPEAKER_00]: When was the last Tacoma Rainier that saved the Mariners' offense?
29:48 --> 29:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Serious question.
29:52 --> 29:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Mike Ford had a couple of home runs in 23 that were cool.
29:56 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Mike Ford, 2023.
29:57 --> 29:59 [SPEAKER_00]: That was great.
30:00 --> 30:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we want a Jake's China to come up in 2023.
30:03 --> 30:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Remember, he never did.
30:06 --> 30:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I remember that a little bit, um, who, I mean, I think I remember Cal, but it took Cal like a year because Cal was good in Tacoma and at the time, so Tom Murphy was catching at the Big League level for the Mariners in 21, who else caught for the Mariners in 2021?
30:25 --> 30:27 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to look it up, boss.
30:27 --> 30:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I can just tell you, that would be Louise Thorens.
30:30 --> 30:54 [SPEAKER_00]: the mayor or no he was oh no so he was there the whole year yeah they were really like struck there's they were really struck on the whole year oh what did they have didn't they have Jacob nodding him catching for a bit i think i have to look this up i'm curious that was that's a scenario i think of where they were like oh my god this guy calirally is destroying triple a at a position of need we got a calm up we got a calm up
30:54 --> 31:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And it took Cal essentially a full calendar year after they called him up to be a above average offense of player like though he did not save The Mariners offense that year.
31:03 --> 31:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so Tom Murphy.
31:05 --> 31:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, Tom Murphy struggled and he was also hurt in 2020 into a six to fifty five OPS and then after that you had Yeah, you had Jacob nodding him you had who's listed as a first baseman here for some reason
31:20 --> 31:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh god, Lyle.
31:22 --> 31:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's why.
31:22 --> 31:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I forgot about this.
31:24 --> 31:26 [SPEAKER_00]: You had Jose Gidoi.
31:26 --> 31:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah.
31:32 --> 31:33 [SPEAKER_00]: God, anyone else?
31:33 --> 31:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember?
31:34 --> 31:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember the record that Jose Gidoi set?
31:39 --> 31:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, he was the 20th, 20 baseball player?
31:43 --> 31:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
31:45 --> 31:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Big League or 20 Big League or that's crazy for that was that was the Mariners catching situation which were like people were like oh my god we got to bring up Cal who Cal at this point just again.
31:57 --> 31:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So we have all of our context here.
31:59 --> 32:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Cal in 2021 and Tacoma was hitting yeah he had a 985 OPS he was destroying the PCL.
32:10 --> 32:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Then the Mariners call him up in 2021 and like, cow, cow, cow.
32:14 --> 32:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Save the season.
32:15 --> 32:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Save the season.
32:17 --> 32:38 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
32:40 --> 32:48 [SPEAKER_01]: This somehow went from Randy Rosarena to Jared Kelnick to Colt Emerson to Patrick Wisdom to Jose Gidoi to Jacob Nottingham, like, what is happening?
32:50 --> 32:53 [SPEAKER_00]: This is us procrastinating not talking about the mayor's offense.
32:54 --> 32:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Well.
32:56 --> 33:04 [SPEAKER_01]: We might also be procrastinating talking about the next subject too, because I think we've exhausted the Randy Rosarina thing, which is, again, I think there's a solution when Colt Emerson comes up.
33:04 --> 33:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
33:05 --> 33:06 [SPEAKER_01]: But we might be exhausting some other topics.
33:07 --> 33:07 [SPEAKER_00]: There certainly is.
33:08 --> 33:12 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's a, yeah, well, before we get to this next subject, though, allow, let's pause for an ad.
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34:17 --> 34:18 [SPEAKER_00]: You had something else on your mind?
34:18 --> 34:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess we both have something on our mind that definitely popped up on Monday.
34:22 --> 34:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But, wow, I'll let you go on with this.
34:27 --> 34:28 [SPEAKER_01]: This was real new on this podcast.
34:28 --> 34:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I know.
34:30 --> 34:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody's heard this before if you've ever listened, especially in the last two seasons.
34:35 --> 34:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Dan Wilson is really just driving me nuts.
34:38 --> 34:39 [SPEAKER_01]: I know, breaking news.
34:40 --> 34:42 [SPEAKER_01]: That seventh inning was not good on Monday.
34:43 --> 34:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna calmly walk through what happened and then we can talk about it more.
34:51 --> 34:53 [SPEAKER_01]: In the seventh inning on Monday, right?
34:54 --> 34:56 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a one-run game.
34:56 --> 35:04 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lefty in the game in Alexander who, as a result, they start to bring some of the rites into the game, like Rob Raff's Thayer.
35:05 --> 35:09 [SPEAKER_01]: There was a runner on and there was one out in the seventh inning, so they bring in Raff's Thayer.
35:10 --> 35:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I think to myself,
35:13 --> 35:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, is it too early to bring him in?
35:15 --> 35:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you try to wait till the ninth inning so you can let your left handed hitters just face a righty when it might matter most?
35:21 --> 35:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Ultimately, that's not the focal point of the subject.
35:24 --> 35:27 [SPEAKER_01]: It just started with Rob Raff Snyder coming into pinch hit.
35:28 --> 35:29 [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't get a hit.
35:30 --> 35:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So that happens right to start the seventh inning.
35:34 --> 35:40 [SPEAKER_01]: After that, and by the way, refsutters at that happened after Josh and Taylor grounded out and arose around a single.
35:40 --> 35:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So there was one on one out for refsutters.
35:42 --> 35:44 [SPEAKER_01]: He strikes out, so there's one on two outs.
35:45 --> 35:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Keep in mind, with Jason Alexander pitching in the bullpen, or Tyler Alexander, sorry, not Jason.
35:49 --> 35:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Tyler Alexander.
35:51 --> 35:53 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lefty in there.
35:53 --> 35:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I was, say, Taylor Alexander was in the game.
35:55 --> 35:56 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I said pitching.
35:57 --> 35:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I thought you said warming a thing.
35:58 --> 35:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, sorry.
35:59 --> 36:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry.
36:00 --> 36:03 [SPEAKER_01]: I might have mixed some words, pitching out of the bullpen.
36:03 --> 36:04 [SPEAKER_01]: He was in the game.
36:04 --> 36:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he was.
36:05 --> 36:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So Alexander's in the game.
36:06 --> 36:07 [SPEAKER_01]: There's two outs.
36:07 --> 36:08 [SPEAKER_01]: There's one on.
36:09 --> 36:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And as a result, Dom canzone is supposed to come up to the plate.
36:14 --> 36:15 [SPEAKER_01]: It's lefty, lefty.
36:16 --> 36:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Ultimately, does that match up favor him?
36:19 --> 36:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Perfectly, no.
36:20 --> 36:22 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, canzone and Rayleigh don't hit lefties.
36:22 --> 36:23 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a reason for it.
36:24 --> 36:38 [SPEAKER_01]: So Dan goes to get Victor Robles, which at face value seems OK, but you've got to know that if you put Robles in the game, immediately they're going to go get a right hand a picture because it's as weak or side, which again is still fine.
36:38 --> 36:48 [SPEAKER_01]: If you'd rather have Robles hit the righty than can zone hit the lefty, or just take your chances thinking maybe the lefty stays in against Robles, that's still fine.
36:48 --> 36:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Because then Robles would go out to write field in the late innings in a one run game and you get a little bit more defense out there.
36:55 --> 36:56 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to pause you there for a second.
36:56 --> 36:59 [SPEAKER_00]: So the two options there at this point is you either.
36:59 --> 37:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Because Cole win his warming in the Rangers bullpen, like you said, and he's ready to come in if needed.
37:04 --> 37:09 [SPEAKER_00]: The options are, do you want Dom can zone versus a lefty or Victor Robles versus a righty?
37:09 --> 37:12 [SPEAKER_00]: At this moment, these are the two options, right?
37:12 --> 37:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Or you get lucky and they leave the lefty in.
37:14 --> 37:18 [SPEAKER_01]: But more likely it's the two scenarios you just outlined.
37:18 --> 37:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you're the Mariners, I understand if you're picking the righty versus the righty, it makes sense.
37:23 --> 37:27 [SPEAKER_01]: So, skips you mocker and the Rangers, do go to Cole Wynn, the righty out of the bullpen.
37:27 --> 37:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And he comes in, so they're set for the righty, righty matchup.
37:31 --> 37:32 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll first off.
37:33 --> 37:43 [SPEAKER_01]: They weren't ready for it entirely because there was an automatic strike that was given to the Mariners because of a hitters pitch clock violation because Robles didn't get out to the box fast enough.
37:44 --> 37:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And while there's a chance that's on Robles, the more likely scenario is these decisions were not made fast enough to get them out there in time and as a result, a strike was given.
37:54 --> 38:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Because if Robles knew well ahead of time, hey, two batters from now, you're going to pinch hit.
38:02 --> 38:04 [SPEAKER_01]: He's probably ready to go.
38:04 --> 38:06 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't see hitters just not get out there fast enough.
38:06 --> 38:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Very often.
38:08 --> 38:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Off phase value that looks like they did not make these decisions fast enough.
38:12 --> 38:15 [SPEAKER_01]: And it costed them a strike.
38:15 --> 38:16 [SPEAKER_01]: So Robles gets out there.
38:17 --> 38:18 [SPEAKER_01]: They go to coal win.
38:19 --> 38:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And as soon as coal win gets into the game, Dan Wilson does a double switch.
38:25 --> 38:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Robleses take it out before he's even used.
38:28 --> 38:31 [SPEAKER_01]: They go to JP Crawford, who's sitting on the bench.
38:31 --> 38:34 [SPEAKER_01]: By the way, still not had very many of that.
38:34 --> 38:38 [SPEAKER_01]: The man had less than 20 plate appearances in spring training.
38:38 --> 38:40 [SPEAKER_01]: He played one rehab game in Tacoma.
38:41 --> 38:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'm sure he got some of bats on the backfield in Arizona when the team left for Seattle.
38:45 --> 38:48 [SPEAKER_01]: But he has not had many live in-game of bats.
38:48 --> 38:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And now you're pinch hitting him ice cold on a whim,
38:52 --> 38:58 [SPEAKER_00]: in the seventh inning because there's a variety on the mound and does he even know in the spot he's supposed to go in?
38:59 --> 38:59 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
38:59 --> 39:02 [SPEAKER_01]: It seemed like it was pretty spur of the moment.
39:02 --> 39:07 [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe he hadn't been hitting even if he had, again, it's not like he's built up all that much.
39:07 --> 39:09 [SPEAKER_01]: They said they're trying to work it off days for him.
39:10 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_01]: On top of that, by using JP here and doing a double switch in the seventh inning on April 6th, by the way, it's not the playoffs.
39:18 --> 39:19 [SPEAKER_01]: This is April 6th.
39:20 --> 39:23 [SPEAKER_01]: You now have one man left on your bench in the 7th inning.
39:23 --> 39:24 [SPEAKER_01]: It's Mitch Garver.
39:24 --> 39:26 [SPEAKER_01]: That's it, just your backup catcher.
39:27 --> 39:31 [SPEAKER_01]: JP gets out, he doesn't get a hit in against runners left on base.
39:32 --> 39:37 [SPEAKER_01]: And remember how I mentioned that they'd emptied out their entire bench and the only man left was Mitch Garver?
39:38 --> 39:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that left Rob Rev Snyder to go play the outfield in a one run game in the late innings for the final two frames in Texas.
39:49 --> 39:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that man is supposed to be de-aching and de-aching only, all respect in the world, the Rob Resteader, but that's what he was brought here for.
39:56 --> 40:05 [SPEAKER_01]: He's not meant to be playing the field much, and it's certainly not meant to be playing the field in a one-run game in the eighth inning for the Mariners.
40:06 --> 40:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's just not, it should never happen.
40:11 --> 40:14 [SPEAKER_00]: The process of all of that is bad.
40:15 --> 40:28 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll miss using the bench, you end up not getting the either advantage you are aiming for, really, you get an extra strike and then you end up with worse outfield defense.
40:29 --> 40:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it makes no sense in the world.
40:32 --> 40:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, if you pinch hit robes and say, okay, I understand they're gonna bring the righty in.
40:36 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_01]: But even if you get righty with robes, I'd rather have that than having canned zone, go left on left, and then you can put robes in the field in the late innings, which makes perfect sense.
40:46 --> 40:48 [SPEAKER_01]: But like,
40:49 --> 40:59 [SPEAKER_01]: to go so over the top and do the double switch and put JPN who's ice cold and then you burn your bench and have to put refs later in the outfield.
41:00 --> 41:04 [SPEAKER_01]: This isn't what lost them the game, but watching that unfold in the seventh inning.
41:04 --> 41:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sitting there thinking to myself, what on earth is happening here?
41:10 --> 41:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't know.
41:12 --> 41:16 [SPEAKER_00]: The more I think about it, the more the more it puzzles me.
41:16 --> 41:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It just,
41:18 --> 41:26 [SPEAKER_00]: like watching what's going on out there on the field it does not make any sense and I'm wondering why like how
41:27 --> 41:28 [SPEAKER_00]: How do these decisions get made?
41:29 --> 41:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious, honestly, I would've just left DomKans on in the game, or you stick with Robless because if you were already pinch hitting one of your rites, then you pinch or pinch it one of your lefties, you pinch it the other one as well, you stay consistent because you're trying to get the match up, but understand there could be a ritey that comes in the game.
41:50 --> 41:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And you leave yourself fine in a defense world, but no.
41:56 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, man, this is just one of many scenarios that we've talked about and one of a few that have already unfolded with this in the first 12 games of the season.
42:08 --> 42:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And my question is just how long can this go on?
42:12 --> 42:24 [SPEAKER_01]: How long can decisions like this that even people sitting home on their couch that don't have all the information are sitting there saying to themselves, what is happening here?
42:24 --> 42:26 [SPEAKER_01]: How long can these decisions go on?
42:26 --> 42:28 [SPEAKER_01]: He is not a first-year manager anymore.
42:29 --> 42:33 [SPEAKER_01]: He had a whole offseason to figure out what needs to be improved and what doesn't.
42:33 --> 42:40 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners, by the way, didn't bring in anybody on the coaching staff to help with these in-game decisions.
42:40 --> 42:43 [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't bring in some in-game strategists like we talked about.
42:43 --> 42:47 [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't bring in somebody that's going through all the numbers clearly.
42:48 --> 42:57 [SPEAKER_01]: So even after everything that happened last season, in the regular season and certainly in the playoffs, they made no changes to that.
42:57 --> 43:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And these same mistakes are still happening.
43:02 --> 43:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Like all the time.
43:03 --> 43:04 [SPEAKER_00]: In low pressure scenarios, too.
43:05 --> 43:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Low for the course of the entire season.
43:08 --> 43:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:09 --> 43:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's still happening all the time.
43:12 --> 43:14 [SPEAKER_01]: We saw it multiple times happening in the Cleveland series.
43:14 --> 43:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Now we're seeing it happen in the Texas series.
43:18 --> 43:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, it drove me crazy in your one because it just seems like things that should be pretty rudimentary for a big league manager to execute.
43:31 --> 43:36 [SPEAKER_01]: There are certain bullpen decisions that you'd line up decisions that you just have to think ahead on.
43:36 --> 43:37 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to be two steps ahead.
43:37 --> 43:39 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to be playing chess.
43:39 --> 43:41 [SPEAKER_01]: and they're still happening.
43:41 --> 43:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's essentially like what it looks like off-base value.
43:45 --> 43:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying this with any information.
43:46 --> 43:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying as somebody who is watching the game and I'm guessing there's just
43:51 --> 43:54 [SPEAKER_01]: normal fans that watch every day that would say the same thing.
43:55 --> 44:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It honestly looks like the game speeds up on him way too often all the time and he's not ready for these things.
44:00 --> 44:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And to put it simply for that decision, it's just it's not even realizing that Texas can go to a righty to face Victor Robless.
44:08 --> 44:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Like not think it because that's what that decision
44:11 --> 44:12 [SPEAKER_00]: shows.
44:12 --> 44:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Or it's like, oh my god, they're going to a variety I need to get a lefty in there.
44:16 --> 44:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Not realizing when you put Robless in the game, that there could be a variety that comes in the pen to face them.
44:22 --> 44:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, because that's how a reactionary decision, like pulling a batter without singing pitch, even does.
44:28 --> 44:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's what that tells us.
44:30 --> 44:36 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels, at least from what we're seeing on TV, that is reactionary instead of planned.
44:37 --> 44:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's a problem, especially in the regular season.
44:40 --> 44:49 [SPEAKER_00]: In the post season, you can't, you can do your best to script everything out, but maybe it doesn't work out that way in the post season.
44:49 --> 44:54 [SPEAKER_00]: But in the regular season, everyone's on regimented rest days, you're working guys in.
44:54 --> 44:57 [SPEAKER_00]: It's more of like a routine of a season,
44:57 --> 45:05 [SPEAKER_00]: to know like stuff like this could happen, and it still feels like in the moment, it's a reaction instead of a plan.
45:07 --> 45:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know what the problem is with all this, TJ.
45:10 --> 45:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, the mariners have essentially signed up for this.
45:15 --> 45:21 [SPEAKER_01]: They believe that everything else that Dan Wilson does as a manager, overshadows all of this.
45:22 --> 45:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't personally buy all that, like I don't buy these decisions that have cost them games in the past and at points of cost them runs this year.
45:32 --> 45:43 [SPEAKER_01]: over like outweighs everything else and I'm not saying that the players don't like playing for them because all you hear from the guys is that they do and ultimately it's about what the guys in that clubhouse think.
45:43 --> 45:52 [SPEAKER_01]: But I like I can't buy that it totally overshadows and totally outweighs everything that continuously goes on on the field with these decisions.
45:52 --> 45:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I just can't buy that and it just continues to happen.
45:55 --> 45:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you're leaving out the most important part.
45:58 --> 46:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean it will continue to come back to the fact that it did not interview anybody else for the job.
46:02 --> 46:04 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what it will always come back to it.
46:04 --> 46:17 [SPEAKER_00]: There was not, we talked about process within the game, a process to get to your decision, a plan, an idea of what you want to do with the game, what you want to do with the roster, what you want to do with the manager, like a process, like that.
46:18 --> 46:21 [SPEAKER_00]: The same applies for how he got the job in the first place.
46:21 --> 46:23 [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't talk to anyone else.
46:23 --> 46:26 [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't put an interim label on him and let him
46:27 --> 46:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Say, okay, go give it a try for 30 games and we'll evaluate after this.
46:31 --> 46:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you'll have a leg up on everyone else, but let's you get some experience doing this before we make a decision.
46:37 --> 46:38 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
46:38 --> 46:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you said they signed up for it.
46:40 --> 46:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, they signed up for it without even knowing what they were getting themselves into.
46:45 --> 46:49 [SPEAKER_01]: he never managed and to your point they literally met with nobody else.
46:49 --> 46:50 [SPEAKER_01]: So let me say it again.
46:50 --> 46:53 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners fully signed up for this.
46:53 --> 46:58 [SPEAKER_01]: They say that what they believe is everything else Dan does is a manager outweighs the decision making.
47:00 --> 47:01 [SPEAKER_01]: The problem is,
47:02 --> 47:16 [SPEAKER_01]: everybody else did not sign up for this and obviously the mariners aren't going to run their organization to just please fans but it still rains true that and everybody else did not sign up for everything that's unfolded on the field over the last season and a half.
47:17 --> 47:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Bye everyone else you mean.
47:19 --> 47:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, fans, that's the player signed up for this.
47:22 --> 47:24 [SPEAKER_01]: The coaches signed up for this.
47:24 --> 47:26 [SPEAKER_01]: The front office and the owner signed up for this.
47:26 --> 47:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the Mariners is what I mean, signed up for this.
47:28 --> 47:31 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why when I say the Mariners, it involves all those people.
47:31 --> 47:39 [SPEAKER_01]: But when I say everybody else, yeah, the fans had like the fact we've had to talk this much about the manager in a year and a half.
47:40 --> 47:42 [SPEAKER_01]: is pretty mind-boggling.
47:43 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I never thought that when he got this job, we would have to be doing this this much, but it's all the time.
47:48 --> 47:53 [SPEAKER_01]: In our first couple years of doing this podcast, how much time did we spend on Scott's service decision making?
47:55 --> 47:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Not much.
47:56 --> 47:59 [SPEAKER_01]: No, Scott was pretty good with that stuff.
47:59 --> 48:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And look, I understand there were reasons they decided the Scott's service tenure had run its course.
48:05 --> 48:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sitting here arguing that.
48:07 --> 48:14 [SPEAKER_01]: but I also don't think anybody ever expected to have to be sitting here and talking about decisions this many times, this often.
48:14 --> 48:33 [SPEAKER_01]: And now in the year two, like I would think after what happened with Muno's in-game seven against the BlueJays and what happened with Carrie Carpenter as we well know has been talking about on this bike ass, and game one against the Tigers in the ALDS, it would be enough for not just Dan Wilson, but everybody internally to say, okay, we have got to take strides forward to improve this.
48:34 --> 48:36 [SPEAKER_01]: But it doesn't seem like anywhere.
48:38 --> 48:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And why do we think that it's?
48:41 --> 48:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I wish I had it.
48:42 --> 48:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Do they not have say or does Dan have total say over the coaching staff?
48:45 --> 48:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And like I know we know things just to speak to all of you listeners, this we're this is total speculation.
48:51 --> 48:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
48:52 --> 48:53 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I like I have no idea.
48:53 --> 49:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like what do we always tell you guys we're pretty transparent with you guys when when there's things that we hear and there's things that we know we'll we'll share with you guys because we want to give you guys as much of a look behind the curtain as as we can without us getting burned and and obviously saying something we're not supposed to say but for as much as we can like we're pretty transparent with you guys when we hear stuff we'll share it with you guys.
49:15 --> 49:17 [SPEAKER_01]: but we do not have an answer for this.
49:18 --> 49:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if anybody has an answer for this.
49:21 --> 49:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't.
49:22 --> 49:22 [SPEAKER_00]: It would be...
49:24 --> 49:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So we mentioned the hiring thing, but it would also at least if there was an explanation for decisions too, maybe we could be a piece with that, because that's just what it is.
49:36 --> 49:40 [SPEAKER_00]: At least somebody is consistent about what they say about what they do.
49:41 --> 49:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Why are while and I talking about Dan Wilson?
49:43 --> 49:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, because we thought Dan Wilson made bad decisions in game one against the
49:53 --> 49:59 [SPEAKER_00]: which just don't really get explanations from why things happen.
49:59 --> 50:00 [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't say anything.
50:00 --> 50:01 [SPEAKER_01]: He does not say anything.
50:02 --> 50:04 [SPEAKER_01]: So you want to talk about things we've heard.
50:05 --> 50:12 [SPEAKER_01]: When Scott Service was the manager and not only did I think he was pretty transparent about why he'd make certain decisions, but I'd also heard that
50:12 --> 50:21 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of the people who reported on the team daily, he would often, especially behind closed doors, like help explain his process even further to a lot of those people.
50:22 --> 50:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's why I do these certain things.
50:23 --> 50:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's why I didn't do these certain things, whether it's line up, bullpen, a lot of different things.
50:27 --> 50:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And it helped people further tell the story and the process of Scott's service.
50:32 --> 50:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think for the most part, well, it wasn't all perfect.
50:35 --> 50:39 [SPEAKER_01]: He usually had a pretty sound process down, and I think most people were in agreement with that.
50:39 --> 50:46 [SPEAKER_01]: But again, this is a wild wild mystery that nobody seems to have an answer for with the Dan Wilson decisions.
50:47 --> 50:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, because otherwise it would have been reported on by people a lot smarter than us that are with the team daily.
50:52 --> 51:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Because as we sit right now through whatever you want to call at a year and a half of this tenure, he makes decisions that are baffling and then he doesn't explain them.
51:01 --> 51:03 [SPEAKER_01]: So nobody really has an answer.
51:04 --> 51:06 [SPEAKER_01]: When you're asking us, TJ, like, why do we think that is?
51:06 --> 51:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And we say, we don't have an answer.
51:07 --> 51:08 [SPEAKER_01]: We really don't have an answer.
51:09 --> 51:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And we just wanted going into this season.
51:12 --> 51:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Some sort of sign that the decision making in the process maybe has improved and changed.
51:18 --> 51:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And we have nothing to say that is true right now.
51:21 --> 51:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing.
51:22 --> 51:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how you could look at Monday and say, yep, the game is being processed faster.
51:27 --> 51:29 [SPEAKER_00]: The decisions are better.
51:29 --> 51:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't see that.
51:31 --> 51:34 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't see it getting better in the foreseeable future.
51:34 --> 51:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I think this is just what they've tied themselves to.
51:37 --> 51:39 [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to have to live with it.
51:39 --> 51:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And they're making people and fans live with it regularly.
51:45 --> 51:46 [SPEAKER_01]: It, I don't know, man.
51:46 --> 51:55 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just hard because I know how much fans put into this whole thing and how much energy gets put into it and time and all of it.
51:55 --> 51:58 [SPEAKER_01]: People pour their hearts into this team.
51:59 --> 52:20 [SPEAKER_01]: It's one thing when the play on the field isn't good enough, and I know that's frustrating, but that's a little different when you just get beat by teams that are better than you, but when you're having decision-making, be this much of a talking point, and often costing you runs or games, and it just, I don't know, man, it doesn't sit right with me, it just doesn't, no.
52:20 --> 52:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Can we talk about this last bit before we sign off here in this podcast a little bit of what we talked about this morning?
52:27 --> 52:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Not exactly a positive topic, but something different.
52:31 --> 52:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Shock our first two stories took forever, because once you get us talking about things, we're just going to go.
52:36 --> 52:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So I talked a little bit on social media this morning about the Mariners offense and why they are where they are.
52:42 --> 52:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And I got some inspiration.
52:43 --> 52:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I decided to look into it a little bit.
52:45 --> 52:50 [SPEAKER_00]: So Mike Petriolo of lb.com was doing some looking into some baseballs about stats.
52:50 --> 52:58 [SPEAKER_00]: And he found that the Mariners on average are swinging slower this year than they did last year.
52:59 --> 53:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, TLDR on why that matters.
53:02 --> 53:07 [SPEAKER_00]: If you swing the bat harder, the ball is going to get hit faster and usually go farther.
53:07 --> 53:14 [SPEAKER_00]: The guys that do the most damage and major league baseball are all the guys that swing the bat, the hardest.
53:15 --> 53:20 [SPEAKER_00]: The guys that are high average low power guys are all the guys who swing their bat, the slowest.
53:21 --> 53:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So it definitely depends on what you want.
53:23 --> 53:25 [SPEAKER_00]: There are different ways to go about it.
53:26 --> 53:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But the Mariners on average this year, for being a team that did as much damage they did last year,
53:32 --> 53:43 [SPEAKER_00]: We're all swinging the bat slower than they were last year, which is interesting and it has led to the single largest year over year hard hit rate drop among all major league teams.
53:44 --> 53:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I find that a little bit concerning those two numbers.
53:49 --> 53:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess my biggest question is, why do we think it's happening?
53:53 --> 53:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's not a coincidence at this point.
53:56 --> 54:01 [SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned this from reading all of Petrielo's stuff and diving into all of it.
54:02 --> 54:07 [SPEAKER_01]: But you know how long it takes for a player's bat speed to normalize into the season?
54:07 --> 54:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Five swings.
54:09 --> 54:10 [SPEAKER_01]: It takes five.
54:10 --> 54:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, correct.
54:10 --> 54:10 [SPEAKER_01]: A seven.
54:11 --> 54:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
54:11 --> 54:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I miss.
54:11 --> 54:11 [SPEAKER_01]: I miss.
54:12 --> 54:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Told you.
54:12 --> 54:12 [SPEAKER_01]: It's seven.
54:13 --> 54:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so.
54:14 --> 54:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
54:14 --> 54:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Similar idea.
54:15 --> 54:19 [SPEAKER_01]: It takes less than 10 swings for it to normalize and have a good data sample on it.
54:20 --> 54:22 [SPEAKER_01]: This isn't just an early season fluke thing.
54:22 --> 54:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody is swinging the bat less hard.
54:25 --> 54:28 [SPEAKER_01]: and they're making much worse quality of contact.
54:29 --> 54:30 [SPEAKER_00]: So why do we think that is?
54:30 --> 54:37 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's not just that, the main problem with this is that if you're slowing down your spats be you're expecting your average to be higher.
54:38 --> 54:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Like the example I just gave, the guys who swing the bat the slowest hit for a high average.
54:42 --> 54:48 [SPEAKER_00]: The guys who swing the bat, the hardest might not hit for the highest average, but they hit the ball the hardest and they hit it over the wall.
54:49 --> 54:51 [SPEAKER_00]: The mariners are doing neither of that.
54:52 --> 54:55 [SPEAKER_00]: The mariners are swinging the bat
54:55 --> 55:05 [SPEAKER_00]: slower than they did last year, they're getting a huge drop off in hard hit rate, and they are still 30th in swing and miss rate major league baseball.
55:06 --> 55:07 [SPEAKER_00]: How is that possible?
55:08 --> 55:23 [SPEAKER_00]: They're slowing down their bats in theory, because I don't know if they're doing it on purpose, but if you slow down your bat, you're usually trying to make contact, and they're making worse contact and less of it, too.
55:23 --> 55:31 [SPEAKER_00]: 30th in width rate, 30th in zone contact rate, which is contact rate on pitches in the strike zone, things that you should hit.
55:32 --> 55:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And then 29th in slogan percentage.
55:35 --> 55:42 [SPEAKER_00]: So there are essentially trying to make more contact with no benefit of the approach.
55:45 --> 55:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, I ask you, why do we think that is?
55:48 --> 55:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Because the story here is not, well, Cal Raleigh swing a little less hard and Luke Rayley swing a little less hard.
55:55 --> 55:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And as a result, the Mariners team bat speed overall is decreased in across the league.
55:59 --> 56:03 [SPEAKER_01]: It's lower in it ranks lower, but everybody else is about normal.
56:04 --> 56:05 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not what's happening.
56:05 --> 56:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody has dropped their bat speed.
56:08 --> 56:21 [SPEAKER_01]: You the only outlined it in the social media posts and maybe you'll go through it a little more here, but now there's a ton of guys that have dropped their bats feed so far early in the year and the one that jumps out the most is Randy it's dropped four miles an hour.
56:21 --> 56:22 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a lot.
56:22 --> 56:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot, he's also been productive though, which is crazy.
56:26 --> 56:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Now he's not slugging, I wonder what stays with Randy Orozarana, now that he dropped his bat speed?
56:33 --> 56:40 [SPEAKER_00]: A Randy was right around Lee Gavrigin, bat speed last year, 72 miles an hour, it has dropped to 68.
56:40 --> 56:42 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a huge drop.
56:42 --> 56:53 [SPEAKER_00]: The lowest swingers in major league baseball swing about 65 miles an hour, Randy essentially dropped from the middle to the bottom quarter.
56:54 --> 56:57 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a huge drop to compare to some of the other drops.
56:58 --> 57:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Josh Taylor, for example, is swinging half a mile an hour slower.
57:01 --> 57:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Cal Raleigh is swinging also a half a mile an hour slower.
57:05 --> 57:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, who else?
57:06 --> 57:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Cole Young is swinging a tenth of a mile an hour slower.
57:09 --> 57:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Reft Snyder is swinging a four tenths of a mile an hour slower.
57:13 --> 57:14 [SPEAKER_00]: These are small.
57:14 --> 57:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It's less, but it's it's small and probably within the margin of error.
57:19 --> 57:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Randy arose, Randy's at four miles an hour.
57:23 --> 57:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
57:25 --> 57:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
57:27 --> 57:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, maybe we'll have to try to do some digging on this because I'd love to get an answer on it.
57:30 --> 57:42 [SPEAKER_01]: It feels like something we'd have to try and ask one of the hitting coaches and there's no way to know for sure for right on this, but My takeaway is it feels like it's planned.
57:42 --> 57:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that for sure, but it just feels like one coincidence too many when everybody's bad speed is down
57:50 --> 57:57 [SPEAKER_00]: It could be that, and I think there's definitely a chance, because I remember hearing something at spring training about a new approach.
57:58 --> 58:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's when I heard this the first time, I thought pop into my mind, like, is this the new approach?
58:06 --> 58:09 [SPEAKER_00]: trying to make more contact, but not doing it very well.
58:09 --> 58:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Like the mirrors are gonna make more contact.
58:11 --> 58:13 [SPEAKER_00]: They need to get on base a lot more, too.
58:13 --> 58:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Which they are not doing.
58:14 --> 58:16 [SPEAKER_00]: They are currently 24th and on base percentage.
58:16 --> 58:23 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't not slug, not hit for average, not and not get on base and strike out a ton and not walk it up.
58:23 --> 58:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Just you're going to be the worst offense in the league if you do that.
58:26 --> 58:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So something has to change in that aspect But also it very well could be they're also not putting themselves in good opportunities to hit another thing I'm looking at here on baseball.
58:36 --> 58:46 [SPEAKER_00]: So about they have this thing called fast swing rate Without trying to over complicate it too much fast swing rate is literally the percentage of time you're swinging fast or getting off a good swing
58:47 --> 58:51 [SPEAKER_00]: All these guys across the border down when it comes to swinging fast.
58:51 --> 58:53 [SPEAKER_00]: The percentage of time you're swinging fast.
58:53 --> 58:56 [SPEAKER_00]: When you usually swing fast, would you say?
58:57 --> 58:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Probably when you get a heater, when you get a fastball.
58:59 --> 59:01 [SPEAKER_00]: When you're in a hitters count, you get a fastball over the plate.
59:01 --> 59:02 [SPEAKER_00]: You're swinging hard.
59:03 --> 59:11 [SPEAKER_00]: These guys are not taking the opportunity to hit the ball hard or not trying to get off good swings at least so far through 11 games.
59:12 --> 59:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Randy Rosarina, for example, this would explain a lot.
59:14 --> 59:16 [SPEAKER_00]: His fast swing rate is down 20%.
59:18 --> 59:22 [SPEAKER_00]: He's eight, eight% of the time, Randy Rosarina is swinging the bat hard.
59:23 --> 59:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Which,
59:24 --> 59:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Not all of Randy arose around his game as perfect, we just highlighted that earlier with his defense, but even with his offensive game, it's certainly not perfect.
59:31 --> 59:45 [SPEAKER_01]: He's not a perfect player, but to over go a potentially big offensive change in approach after a 30, 30, or a 25, 25 season, that'd be a little headscratching.
59:45 --> 59:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll take another 25 and 25 from Randy.
59:48 --> 59:50 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll probably have another three worst season if he does that.
59:51 --> 59:54 [SPEAKER_00]: and I'm 100% with you, it doesn't make much sense.
59:54 --> 01:00:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't see anything about the Mariners approach, last year from the players on their roster, that needs to change.
01:00:03 --> 01:00:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, there was one thing, it's like, we want Julio to make a little bit more contact, but dude had like a six or six season and was preseason top 10 player in major league baseball.
01:00:12 --> 01:00:14 [SPEAKER_00]: He didn't need to overhaul that much.
01:00:15 --> 01:00:18 [SPEAKER_00]: How rallied didn't need overhauled that much, you just hit 60 home runs.
01:00:19 --> 01:00:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Josh Nailer had one of the best seasons of his career last year, but didn't need to change, and so did Randy, Randy was very, very productive last year.
01:00:29 --> 01:00:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But to see this, it's kind of puzzling them.
01:00:31 --> 01:00:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to see how this looks after another 50 games instead of 11 games and get a better sense of, okay, things have normalized a little bit more, they're swinging harder, they're launching balls over the fence.
01:00:45 --> 01:00:52 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you want to reason why there's been this power outage for the Mariners, why they really haven't been able to hit any home runs, you'd Cal hit one on Monday, nothing else.
01:00:53 --> 01:00:56 [SPEAKER_00]: You'd don't have been hit one today on Tuesday and then nothing else.
01:00:57 --> 01:00:58 [SPEAKER_00]: This is why.
01:00:59 --> 01:01:01 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not getting off swings to hit home runs.
01:01:01 --> 01:01:02 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a problem.
01:01:03 --> 01:01:04 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't do damage.
01:01:04 --> 01:01:06 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't drive in runs if you're not giving yourself that opportunity.
01:01:07 --> 01:01:10 [SPEAKER_00]: And even if you're trying to make contact, they're really bad at making contact.
01:01:11 --> 01:01:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Really, really bad.
01:01:12 --> 01:01:17 [SPEAKER_01]: and then all the power numbers with it, say the exact same thing that this is not working.
01:01:17 --> 01:01:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Because if you look at their slugging percentage, they're bottom 10 in the league.
01:01:22 --> 01:01:29 [SPEAKER_01]: You look at their woeba, they're weighted on base average, which again, in the simplest of terms, measures your quality of contact.
01:01:30 --> 01:01:31 [SPEAKER_01]: It measures how hard you're hitting the ball.
01:01:32 --> 01:01:36 [SPEAKER_01]: it measures if you're putting good swings on the baseball, essentially, the 29th.
01:01:36 --> 01:01:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the 29th and the league on front of only the giants.
01:01:39 --> 01:01:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, teams like the twins and the white socks and the cardinals are ahead of them.
01:01:44 --> 01:01:53 [SPEAKER_01]: And then their bottom 10 in team WRC plus, which isn't a perfect stat, but just to highlight another offensive stat as a team, bottom 10, they're 15% below league average.
01:01:53 --> 01:01:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, their bottom 10 and run score, it's everything.
01:01:56 --> 01:01:59 [SPEAKER_00]: They're 29th and average eggs of velocity.
01:01:59 --> 01:02:05 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a team that has cow and Julio on the team, and they are 29th in exit velocity.
01:02:06 --> 01:02:07 [SPEAKER_00]: They are 27th.
01:02:07 --> 01:02:09 [SPEAKER_00]: You mentioned Wobah.
01:02:11 --> 01:02:15 [SPEAKER_00]: WobahCon is weighted on base average on contact.
01:02:15 --> 01:02:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So not that takes out all the strike outs.
01:02:17 --> 01:02:25 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just which when you put the battle on the ball, when the maraders are putting the battle on the ball, they are 27th the baseball on offensive production.
01:02:26 --> 01:02:26 [SPEAKER_00]: That's bad.
01:02:28 --> 01:02:40 [SPEAKER_00]: that that more resembles the Rockies and the White Sox and some of these other teams that don't have the offense of firepower that the Mariners have and it is puzzling because they're legitimately doing nothing well.
01:02:41 --> 01:02:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Cole Young's been a bright spot, brand-out events been really good at the plate.
01:02:44 --> 01:02:44 [SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
01:02:45 --> 01:02:48 [SPEAKER_01]: The Rockies are hitting for more impact than the Mariners right now.
01:02:48 --> 01:02:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Seriously.
01:02:50 --> 01:02:57 [SPEAKER_01]: It is only 12 games and it's very, very early, but if this continues,
01:02:58 --> 01:03:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not on board and I don't know why even if the decision to go into the season was to change to your approach, I get the offense was a little volatile in the playoffs and you see what the Blue Jays have and you kind of envy it and maybe you want to get closer to that mark, but the mayor said 230 home runs last year and what we proclaim was the best lineup they've ever rolled out.
01:03:20 --> 01:03:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Like on a rate-based suit, pretty damn good.
01:03:23 --> 01:03:26 [SPEAKER_00]: You just wish some of the guys would
01:03:27 --> 01:03:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Most of the lineup is still the same this year.
01:03:29 --> 01:03:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't overhauling established players is not really, I wouldn't say good process, but however, we don't know if that's what's actually happening here, we're gonna have to go find out.
01:03:41 --> 01:03:45 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll be at the park this weekend and we'll be asking some questions.
01:03:45 --> 01:03:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm really curious.
01:03:46 --> 01:03:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, hopefully we can find out.
01:03:48 --> 01:03:48 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll try.
01:03:48 --> 01:03:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, if we do, we'll tell you guys some report back to you guys, but yeah, this is not gonna put up on through 12 games, it's just no.
01:03:58 --> 01:04:00 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I wish they would score more runs.
01:04:00 --> 01:04:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we'll get blast on Wednesday with a getaway day midday offensive explosion.
01:04:06 --> 01:04:13 [SPEAKER_00]: And we have something positive to look forward to going into the Astro series because do you want the antithesis of the Mariners offense right now?
01:04:13 --> 01:04:17 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the Houston Astros who are coming into town this weekend.
01:04:18 --> 01:04:20 [SPEAKER_00]: They're destroying the baseball.
01:04:20 --> 01:04:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:04:20 --> 01:04:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Yordon looks like Prime Yordon again through 12 games.
01:04:24 --> 01:04:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's going to, he might put up more offensive production in the entire Mariners offense this week and unless something changes.
01:04:31 --> 01:04:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I know you're hoping to end this series on a good note, but you want to remind the people who they're facing on Wednesday?
01:04:37 --> 01:04:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
01:04:38 --> 01:04:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Mackenzie Gores on the mound for the Rangers on Wednesday, and the Mariners have not hit lefties this season.
01:04:45 --> 01:05:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately, their main lefty masters, which go by the name of Rob Raff Snyder, Cal Rally, Julio Rodriguez, have done nothing so far, and Gore's not just the lefty, he's a very good lefty, he's a very good lefty, yes.
01:05:01 --> 01:05:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you didn't hit Redepmer's, Mackenzie Gore is going to be a tough task.
01:05:09 --> 01:05:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And the members just win 116 games again.
01:05:14 --> 01:05:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me just go on through enough.
01:05:16 --> 01:05:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me just ask the question as we end this podcast that I asked, start of the show.
01:05:19 --> 01:05:20 [SPEAKER_01]: We haven't fun yet?
01:05:22 --> 01:05:22 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
01:05:22 --> 01:05:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, no, I'm not having a ton of fun.
01:05:26 --> 01:05:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it will turn around eventually, but right now, oh, not fun.
01:05:29 --> 01:05:31 [SPEAKER_00]: It is not, it is not good right now.
01:05:31 --> 01:05:32 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not.
01:05:33 --> 01:05:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Alright, that was just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Lair podcast.
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01:06:11 --> 01:06:12 [SPEAKER_01]: That's TJ, I'm Lyle.
01:06:12 --> 01:06:14 [SPEAKER_01]: As always, we thank you guys for tuning in.
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