Episode 39: Bobby Wagner (Tipping Pitches Podcast), Who Needs To Step Up In The Second Half, And Picking A Deadline Acquisition

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number thirty nine of the Marine Layer Podcast with TJ. Matthewson and Lyle Goldstein. On today's pod, we welcome on Bobby Wagner, the co host of the Tipping Pitches podcast. They talk about some different things on the Tipping Pitches Podcast. It is a baseball podcast, but they dive in a little bit deeper than we do. They're not looking at trade deadline targets. I'll just say that much. We'll talk about that with Bobby as the interview goes along. We also have our two Mariners storylines as well for this episode. 00:00:32 Speaker 2: Just a reminder if you're listening on our audio platforms, make sure to go check us out on YouTube. If you do, go hit subscribe, like, leave us a comment, let us know what you want to hear more of from us, what you like, what you don't like. If you're listening on YouTube and watching us on YouTube, go check out our audio form podcasts as well, Apple, Spotify, Google, Amazon, Go rate, go give us five stars, Go download our episodes, all that good stuff. It helps us out a bunch all of it. And as always, you want to check out our social media content, which we think we do some pretty cool stuff on there. You can do so on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter and YouTube shorts at marine Layer Pod. 00:01:11 Speaker 1: Let's get it rolling and we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast network, recording here on Monday, July seventeenth, And Lyyle, don't we have some new content that people need to go check out? 00:01:40 Speaker 3: We do, We do. 00:01:42 Speaker 2: We did our first vlog ever and it just got posted here on Monday morning and we had a blast doing it. 00:01:49 Speaker 1: It's different than all of our other content. We like to make all of our other content bite size, but this is not bite size. This is an entire four day stretch worth of contento us see a little bit of our personal lives, some more personality coming out in it. It was fantastic. Took us through the draft, took us through the Futures Game, the Celebrity Softball game, the home Run Derby, and the All Star Game as well. I can't remember exactly if there's a reaction to me saying, man, the celebrity All Start Softball game sucks. So if it's not in there, I'll just put it on the record right here, right now. Make sure it is clear on the record staring into a video camera that that is correct, but otherwise it Low did a great job editing it and putting it together about fifteen minutes of our All Star Week experience in Seattle. Great way to document that all and yeah, you should go check it out on our YouTube. 00:02:40 Speaker 2: That's the first vlog we've ever done, and it's the first one I've ever personally done. I've certainly never walked around over a three four day stretch just filming all the different stuff we do behind the scenes. But I enjoyed it. I mean, we thought with All Star Week here in Seattle, it would be a chance to do some unique stuff, and we figured for those who didn't get to go out to all four days of All Star Week, maybe they'd enjoy seeing what we do over a four day stretch. And what it entailed was ween going to the events, meeting up with all these different people, some of our live reactions to the home run derby. You'll want to check that part out. Yeah, it was fun, and if there's other events that we have the chance to blog going forward, I think we should keep doing it because I think it was It was a cool, little behind the scenes piece of content. 00:03:23 Speaker 1: We did quick question for you. Did you edit out our trip to Starbucks? 00:03:28 Speaker 2: Yeah, like I'd ever step foot in the Starbucks. That isn't the blog. I can tell you that. 00:03:32 Speaker 3: TJ. 00:03:33 Speaker 2: Early on, It's like, so, uh, we're making a trip to Starbucks. I said, I I'm sorry, but I'm boycotting Starbucks like forever. 00:03:44 Speaker 1: There was a Starbucks in the MLB play Ballpark Convention Center in the in the right next to Lumenfield. We could have gone. It was. It was sitting right there. It was tempting. I kept suggesting, like Lyle, buddy, we're we're dragging a little bit here. I think we need some more caffeine, and Lyle looked me dead in the eye and said, absolutely not. It was thankful though. Gatorade was there giving out some free advertising, doing some marketing of their new energy drink. So whatever amount of caffeine you could possibly get from coffee, they were just giving out free energy drinks every single day. 00:04:15 Speaker 2: So I'm like, Okay, I'm not a caffeine drinker at all, but the rare times that I need it, I opt to go with things like those Gatorade Fast Twitch drinks, which we drank a few of throughout that week because we needed it and it was a long week. But I'm not drinking coffee, or well, let's put it like this, I'm not drinking Starbucks coffee. Ever, if you're a true syatellite, you don't drink Starbucks, Go buy your coffee. Go purchase it at a local coffee shop. Go support your local businesses. Do not go to Starbucks, just. 00:04:48 Speaker 1: Like you support this local business right here with the two of us. It means a lot. I will say, though, despite the amount of caffein those fast switches had in them, nothing really tops the amount of jitters I get from brew. I don't know what it is, not Starbucks cold brew. There's a place here in corvallis there coldbrew. I'll drink it at like noon, and I'll be laying in bed. It's like twelve thirty and I'm still like oo, I can go for a run right now. This is this is jittery. And no other cup of coffee or even energy drink that I would drink at that time has done that. But somehow that has. But otherwise, caffeine did power the weekend. It did power the vlog, especially through those last couple of days. It was warm, it was fun. We really enjoyed a whole bunch of it. We go back and relive it again, I mean, go back to that Derby would be kind of fun, I would say. So getting another All Star Games soon there, Mariners. 00:05:39 Speaker 3: That'd be great. 00:05:40 Speaker 2: Or we just need to find more things to vlog, which hopefully we have the chance to do some more cool things like that even if it's not an All Star week to go vlog moving forward. Hey, I mean, if things go right, maybe we can start going all the All Star Games, even that aren't in Seattle one day, and then we can blog all that stuff and again find other things to vlog in between that time too. 00:06:00 Speaker 1: That would be even more fun because you know what coffee shops are in the airports, sadly Starbucks. Yeah, well, hopefully we go somewhere the Dunkin Donuts, because Dunkin Donuts is like up here and Starbucks is down here somewhere down below. I'm pointing straight down. If you're listening on podcasts, way down there on the floor, Dunkin Donuts, what's up here? Let's let's let's go find somewhere the duncan. 00:06:26 Speaker 2: Let me put this on record if the Sonics do one day come back, I will consider purchasing Starbucks. Until then, absolutely not. 00:06:37 Speaker 1: Now, what about the suggested rumor that we saw floated out there the other day that the Oklahoma City thunder moved back from Oklahoma City to Seattle because they're not selling enough tickets and Oka see and Howard Schultz has to sell them back. Well, we already did sell them, but Clay Bennett and company sell them back to Seattle. And is everything back? No, we gonna are we gonna are we gonna go pop the champagne at Starbucks. 00:07:03 Speaker 2: I might pop champagne, but I'm not just running back to Starbucks because guess what, for twenty years they haven't been here. Yeah, it's gonna take a lot to win me over to go back to Starbucks. And and the non starter is the Sonics coming back like that is a must if I'm even gonna consider it. 00:07:21 Speaker 1: That's fair, that's fair, And we hold out, we hold out. It's gonna happen eventually. It'll probably happen within the next ten years, and there will be some champagn I've already got it on nice. I just hope it doesn't freeze before that point. Happens. Okay, enough doodling around, Lyle, Let's get to our Mariners storylines up first, I'm gonna present you we're each going to We're each going to present a potential trade figure with the deadline looming a couple of weeks from now, two different types of candidates that Law and I each have picked out here. But I think it's these are gonna be interesting to dive into and look at. And of course we don't even know if the Mariners or buyers yet, but we are forecasting if they are actually going to buy, here is something they could potentially target. Here's a name that I'm gonna throw at you, Lyle. Let me know what you think of this. Jamier Candelario. Hope, I pronounce that right of the Nationals, a third baseman. 00:08:20 Speaker 3: I do like the player. 00:08:22 Speaker 2: I don't love the fact that he is a rental and you probably only get two months of them. That doesn't feel like the type of trade Jerry Depoto usually makes. 00:08:31 Speaker 1: You're right, and that's what I thought, well, doing this research, this is probably a last ditch effort. But let's imagine the playoff fields. There's let's say there's twenty three teams that actually think they have a chance or are not actually willing to sell the kind of pieces that Jerry Depoto wants. Jerry keeps saying, yes, we want young cost controlled guys of the deadline. Well, what team in baseball wants does not want young cost controlled players? Are there any? I don't know, so that kind of that kind of shortens the list of what's actually available for you at the deadline if that's all what you're willing to go do. But now, if the Mariners say rip off ten wins in a row, somehow dub very unlikely. But let's say they rip off ten wins in a row. Are like, man, we could still really upgrade this roster and it wouldn't really cost a whole lot. Jam RK. Candelario might be a guy who can do that. He's been the one of the best players on a crummy Washington Nationals team. He's making only five million dollars this year on a one year deal. You won't have to pay all that much to get them. To be honest, Rental players like this do not cost that much. I mean, pick any I'd say two mid tier Mariners prospects who you'd probably forget about in a couple of years anyway, if they were traded off the roster, I mean, anyone from say ten to twenty, pick two of them, and that's probably all it would really cost to get JAMRK. Candelario. He plays an excellent third base I would have met. He's pretty much only played third base in his career. If you wanted to keep Ano at third base, I would imagine it wouldn't be two out of the question to shift the guy to second base, even if he's not quite as good at second base with a little more range required. That's fine. He hits well. He's got a one eighteen worc plus this year, again very solid defender, and his walking strikeout numbers are also very good as well, So you know there's there's stuff to like there for something that would not cost that much. To be honest, he. 00:10:36 Speaker 2: Came up as a shortstop, so if he had to move over to second base, even if he's not going to play a league defense, he'd probably do that at this point. The only thing I wonder, along with the fact that he is a rental piece, does his batted ball profile kind of scary off at all? I mean, his quality of contact is not great. It's not terrible, but it doesn't jump off the page. Forty nine percent tile in x WOE but fortieth percentile and expected batting average thirty seven percent TILE and hard hit percentage for two months. It might not matter, but it is just something to consider. 00:11:10 Speaker 1: And this is where I'll bring back to the point. You're not committed to him beyond this year, and he shows you something that you really believe in and you actually think he could sustain something like this, then you could pay him as a free agent, right And if you don't actually believe it and you're like, hmm, this seems kind of fluky, then you don't have to sign him. And you did not really have to give up all that much to get him. He did have he has had now multiple good offensive seasons. Also had a very good offensive season in twenty twenty one with very similar peripherals. So it's not out of the question that he could sustain something like this for a couple of seasons if you really think so. And he'd be a bat most importantly a bat on an in your infield, which is something you really really need and you haven't developed in your system at all, So at some point you can't really be too picky about which guys you get in your system because you think about it at this point, it's like, well, because his Baseball Savant page doesn't look good, I would rather have Colton Long on the infield. I don't think either of us are saying that, And I don't think Jose Cabierro over the last i'd say month, has given you any reason to say otherwise. As well. He's really struggled at the plate, so I mean shoulder shrug. 00:12:22 Speaker 2: Look three of the last four years results or results, and in that time he's been a really good bat when you look at his offensive numbers. It's just something to consider. But to your point, you're right that you shouldn't have to give up a whole lot to get him. I mean, if you want to even look at the Tyler Anderson trade two years ago, they gave up Carter Binn, so at the time was a catcher that was hitting well in the system. But you mentioned the idea of you might forget about this prospect in a couple of years, and we haven't really heard much from Carter Binn since then. 00:12:49 Speaker 3: I think he's just still in the Pirates minor league system. 00:12:51 Speaker 2: So you're probably right that the prospect you'd give up would likely not come back to haunt you. I just know that this is not usually the route. 00:12:59 Speaker 3: That Jerry goes. 00:13:00 Speaker 2: I was actually trying to dig back and remind myself what are some of the short term moves he's made at the deadline. There was Tyler Anderson those two years ago. The only other two that even came to mind were when he acquired Adam Warren, Zach Duke and Cameron Mayban back in twenty eighteen. That's about it. I don't remember any other real rental moves that he's made at the deadline. 00:13:23 Speaker 1: And say, if they had a little more budget in twenty eighteen, I think they might have swung a little bit larger. But I remember that twenty eighteen had a couple of things working against them. One thin farm system B we know on the record, Ryan Davis said that they could not add anything else at the deadline because they didn't have any payroll to add. They were maxed out when it came to payroll, flexibility and budget for the season, so they couldn't add on at any of that. So that's what Jerry ended up doing. I will say, though, at some point, you know, a cheap rental is not the worst thing in the world, because as long as long as your current major league product is not good enough for the current season, then that always leaves the door open to getting better. And I think that is very much an option. I just don't want the Mariners to pigeonhole themselves into saying the guy has to be young, he has to be controllable with multiple years, and he has to be a part of this future. Because if the Mariners think this kind of guy wants would want to be part of their future, you know, maybe the team that already has them also thinks they might be part of their future because they are young, controllable, and projectable for the future. It's just kind of a corner that you back yourself into where you might end up overpaying for somebody who might not actually make your team that much better this season, And if you're going to buy, isn't that the whole point. 00:14:48 Speaker 3: It is? 00:14:49 Speaker 2: And maybe that's the route they go. Also, do you like letters or numbers better? Because you just want one and then be there for your two reasons? So which one. 00:14:58 Speaker 3: Do you like better? Do you want numb? 00:15:00 Speaker 1: Letters, numbers? 00:15:04 Speaker 2: Okay, okay, that reminded me that scene and Home Alone, where the older the older brothers like one, I'm not lucky. Two we have security, or he says, no, A, I'm not lucky too, we have security, And d we live in a boring neighborhood. 00:15:18 Speaker 1: So you're taking a pace like, yeah, that sounds like something I would do. Sometimes I just lose track of thoughts. This is what happens when I don't get enough coffee in the day. I don't Maybe I need to get some on the way to work. Got a. You got a little bit of a lateish night tonight, so I need to need some energy to keep me rolling. Headache? 00:15:36 Speaker 3: You feel like headaches right now? 00:15:38 Speaker 1: No, no, I had. I had my one cup of coffee at breakfast at about ten o'clock. It's delicious, it was great. I recommend it to everybody. It's it's part of a routine. It gives you something to look forward to every morning. I mean, who just wants to drink water when you wake up in the morning. 00:15:53 Speaker 4: Not me. 00:15:54 Speaker 1: Water's good, But they ever had a nice cup of coffee? 00:15:57 Speaker 3: I mean, hmmm, I don't know if I can relate much. 00:16:03 Speaker 1: You know, you're missing out. 00:16:06 Speaker 2: Well, that's up for debate. You know what the two of us can relate on. If the Mariners were to shoot an arrow into the sky, hit the bullseye of a target, and truly make an impact move for the long term to help this franchise. How about that guy that plays third base for the Cardinals. Can anybody here be interested in Nolan Arnado besides me? 00:16:27 Speaker 3: Yes? 00:16:27 Speaker 1: No, maybe that sounds good to me. I am curious. Though you did mention kendel Ario's bad at ball profile, you look at Nolan's. It's not that much different, to be honest, In fact, it might be better. 00:16:43 Speaker 2: What about the fact that Nolan Arnado's made eight straight All Star Games, is won a Gold Glove every single year of his career if you exclude twenty twenty as WRC plus's drop a low one to twenty once in a season and that was when it was one thirteen and twenty twenty one, or sorry, let me rephrase once in a season since twenty fifteen, and that was when it was at one thirteen and twenty twenty one. 00:17:05 Speaker 1: Well, notice how I just said baseball sit on page I think that's that's mostly what I said. If we were talking about that about profile. However, career accolades are also great, and they also the other fact that he's under contract for four more years after this season. He's got old though it's getting up there. 00:17:23 Speaker 2: Okay, he's thirty two. When this contract ends, he'll still be thirty six. It's not that old guys are still productive at that part of their career, and I will buy in that he still will be. 00:17:36 Speaker 1: The thing I think about with a Nolan Aronado trade is can the Mariners could they actually get it? Like? Could they give a package up similar to what the Cardinals gave up to get him? It's like that's like a pipe dream. But can I just read you this package in case you forgot it? I mean, it's it's truly bizarre that trading for a thirty year old Nolan Aernado with what he would have had six years of control left. I believe this is the package they gave up to get them Austin Gomber. Let's see El Hurry, El Hurrius Montero, Tony Losi, Mateo Gill and Jake Somers. Have you heard of any of those guys besides Austin Gomber Because he started against the MS this year. 00:18:28 Speaker 2: I've known Gombert for a while because at one point he was a prospect and obviously he's a big leaguer, but he hasn't been very good. 00:18:34 Speaker 3: And the other guys know. 00:18:37 Speaker 1: That was for six years of Nolan Aernado right there. Six years. Oh and the Rockies also, I think the Rockies also sent them fifty million dollars. I think that was it right for his contract, Like what an incredible deal. I mean, at least of the century. Still can't get over that anyways, if Jerry can get I don't know if he could fleece the Cardinals half as much. You know, I'm all in on this, and he just opted in this past offseason to the final bit of his contract. There wasn't opt out there after last season, which he really did great. They was what third and MVP. That's as good as you can get going into the offseason. I have no idea why he didn't opt out of that contract, seeing what Manny got at a similar age, But regardless, that was Nolan's choice to make. So you got a guy now under contract when you trade for him, of about four and a half years of control left. As a history of accolades, historically one of the greatest defenders ever at third base, so all those boxes get checked. He has had a pretty crummy defensive year this year by both alts above average and defensive run saved his one true calling card no matter what, that he's better than anyone else at was his defense, and his defense has taken a turn for the worse this year. You hope that's not something that gets worse as he gets a little bit slower and older, as well as his bat would decline in value as speed slows down. So just a couple of thoughts there when thinking about Nolan aeronauto. But I'm not opposed to the idea because honestly don't think you would cost all that much, especially if you're taking on that contract. 00:20:13 Speaker 3: So let's play this out. 00:20:14 Speaker 2: If the Mariners were to take on that contract, this is something in the ballpark of what I threw together. You can tell me if this is too much, too little, or right about in the middle of what the asking price would be. And if you want to throw out your own idea, you can too. If the Mariners take on the whole contract, I said it would cost Cole Young, one of the first rounders from this year. Let's say Johnny Farmelo, and I'll throw Jake Shiner in there too. I mean, as much as I love Jake Shiner, it is a bat that is close to the majors that's having a really good year, then maybe the Cardinals think could help at least as a bench bat or somewhat of a platoon piece going forward. Is that about the right price? I mean, you're not gonna do what the Cardinals did and give up absolutely nothing, but that feels about in the range. 00:21:01 Speaker 1: Would you feel like that might be a maybe a little bit of an overpay for a plus thirty guy with all that money, oh do him? I feel like that still might be a lot. I feel like maybe you swap Farmelo out for pick a not even like a Woo or a Miller. I feel like it would cost less than that for all that money. I mean, you're taking on over one hundred million dollars off the Cardinals book books in the future. That has its own worth. Oh and by the way, Nolan does have a full no trade clause, which significantly lowers the Cardinals leverage in a trade. 00:21:40 Speaker 3: That is true. 00:21:41 Speaker 2: Okay, So if you swap out Farmelo, are you including an arm instead, would it be somebody like, is Walter Ford too high of an arm? Would it be somebody more like Michael Morales. 00:21:52 Speaker 1: You can put Mike, you could put Walter Ford in there. 00:21:54 Speaker 3: That's fine, Okay, so Young Ford, Jake Shine, Shiner. 00:21:58 Speaker 2: I mean I would do like, if it's really not going to cost that much, I'm doing it. Even if Nolan Arnado comes here and isn't the player he used to be, I'm still taking the chance that he will be because they need answers offensively, and they need it very soon. Oh by the way, if you want to convince that two way guy this winner that you're serious about winning, isn't this a move that signals that that wouldn't even cost you that much? 00:22:26 Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be it. The biggest roadblock in this would not be what the Mariners could offer. It's that convincing Nolan Aronado that this is a place you would actually want to play. That's it. Like, that's essentially it. Once he would decide this is a place he wants to play, then I don't think it would be that difficult for Jerry to put together a package that Cardinals would seriously consider, especially since all the dialogue going back and forth between the two teams. Not totally sure if this is where Nolan would want to play. The play the rest of his career though, unfortunately, and that really hinders the Mariners. This is the problem with trading for a veteran on a big contract. More likely than not they will have a full no trade clause in there, and they can pick and choose wherever they decide to go next. Nolan doesn't have to go anywhere if he doesn't want to. He can. He can even if the Cardinals say, yeah, we want to offload your contract and say, oh, too bad, it doesn't matter to me. 00:23:17 Speaker 2: You think you'd prefer to be a Yankee or a Dodger? 00:23:20 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh absolutely, I think. Unfortunately, I think the Mariners would be about as low on that list as possible. You know, it wouldn't shock me if the only two teams below that are the A's and the Rockies. He hates the Rockies front office and ownership, I'm sure now, and the A's speak for themselves and that's probably it. I wouldn't I would not be shocked about that. I know. We can say, well, look at the future of the Mariners. Well, it doesn't change the fact that no one would have to play eighty one games a season in T Mobile Park, which he is a hitter, would hate. 00:23:55 Speaker 2: You may be selling a little low. There's the Royals, there's the Tigers, there's the Nationals, there's the I don't know if you want to go to Pittsburgh. 00:24:04 Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know if they're dead last. 00:24:07 Speaker 1: I'm saying the park plays bigger factor than all the futures of those other teams. You just mentioned that. That's essentially one of the biggest things. And that's why Petle, We've already talked about this. This is such a tired argument, but it's it is true. Guys do not like hitting in that park. They do not, and the results speak for themselves. Unfortunately, as unfortunate as it is, it is a reality. So you're somehow gonna have to convince Nolan Aernado that playing eighty one games a season is in T Mobile Park is worth it. 00:24:40 Speaker 2: Well, I'll leave that to Jerry because if he can somehow pull that trade off, that is a massive swing for this team. Because I still believe that he has plenty of juice left in the tank and I would be ecstatic to see him here, So I'm gonna keep my fingers crossed that they're cooking up something like that, because this team, both right now and going forward, could really use it. 00:25:04 Speaker 4: This fall, stream your favorites and discover more with Disney Plus, Hulu and ESPN Plus together. Watch the highly anticipated new season of Loki and see the ghost materialize in Haunted Mansion on Disney Plus. Catch more frights with the Boogeyman, an American horror story delegate on Hulu and on ESPN Plus. Get into the action with college football and NFL. All of these and more streaming now. Get the Disney Bundle with plans starting at nine to ninety nine a month plans with ESPN Plus starting at fourteen ninety nine a month. Terms apply. See Diisney Bundle dot com for details. 00:25:44 Speaker 2: With that being said, for the guys they do have on the roster for this year, some of them need to step up in the second half. So for the second part of this Mariner's Top, for the second Mariner storyline, we're gonna highlight one player each that we think need and we're gonna say Sam's Julio Rodriguez. I think it's pretty much unanimous that everybody knows. For the Mariners to go where they want to go, Julio has to be Julio. So we're gonna pick somebody else to highlight and say the Mariner's even more. The Mariners need more from this guy. So who's on your list? 00:26:18 Speaker 1: It's funny you said that sentence. I literally had that thing right underneath my player said. Note that excludes the obvious answer of Julio, like, yes, no shit, Julio needs to play better. We all agree on that. It's ty France. Wow. Would you like to tell the folks who have not looked it up what ty Franz is WRC plus in July is. 00:26:39 Speaker 2: I'm sure most people know he's struggling, but you probably wouldn't guess it. It is seven that like you heard that right, is WRC plus in the month of July as we sit here on Monday afternoon, July seventeenth, is seven ninety three percent below league average. It is really tough to stare at. 00:27:00 Speaker 1: As a first baseman, which you know first basement are supposed to hit. If you look at his last month, we put the sample size a little bigger. It's forty four and for a guy who doesn't strike out in that span. He's striking out twenty five percent of the time. He's not slugging at all. His defense is still fine at first base, but at this point, if you don't hit as a first basement, it really doesn't matter how good your defense is at first You look at among first basemen, he is nineteenth among all first basemen and WRC plus he's sandwiched between Tristan Tristan Casas Cassas. It's Casas there we go, Okay, Tristan Cassas and Torque Spencer. Torklsen, who I saw discourse on Twitter, was like, does he need to get sent down again? Like that's where in the that's in the hemisphere that ty France is in right now. That's not the place you want to be as a first baseman. Where about the league average for WRC plus for first baseman this year is probably around like one ten. He's he's at one oh four, he's below that. As a first baseman, that's your job to hit, and ty France is not hitting. And he has been up in the lineup finally moved down yesterday in the lineup. And when you have a guy who's struggling as much as he was at the top of your lineup doesn't help you produce much many runs, and he finally got moved down and you know, we'll see how long that sticks. 00:28:28 Speaker 2: Do we think any of ty Frant's scuffling correlates with that injury from the collision in the Ray series, because at the time that he started to struggle was right around the same period as that injury. So I'm just wondering if there's some correlation there. 00:28:42 Speaker 1: Maybe, But we're at the point where it's just deja vu. Every season we're pointing at ty France's struggles, like, oh, that one time where he got injured and says he's healthy but still playing on the field. Well, is he hurt? 00:28:57 Speaker 3: I don't know. You'd have to ask ty France. 00:29:00 Speaker 1: Like, just like, are we tired of having this conversation? 00:29:04 Speaker 2: Well, of course I'd love ty France to hit, But I don't know if he's trying to play through an injury or not. 00:29:10 Speaker 1: I don't know. But if he's healthy enough to get out out there on the field, you expect better than a seven WRC plus in July. 00:29:18 Speaker 3: Well, that is true. 00:29:20 Speaker 2: If he's going to be starting out there at first base, and he is going to try to either play through what is maybe an injury or if he is just simply healthy and the collision isn't affecting him anymore. Yeah, he has to hit better. I don't really know what happened to the twenty twenty one Ty France. Maybe what Ty did in the first half of twenty twenty two isn't sustainable. When he was when he at one point was a top ten hitter in baseball by WRC plus, the twenty twenty one Ty France was about a one thirty WRC plus guy, hit twenty bombs, didn't strike out, played good defense. That's the guy they need back. And for Ty France to be starting every day at first base, that's about what you expect him to do. 00:30:01 Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing for Ty France, if we're gonna actually look at some numbers, he is chasing at more pitches outside of the zone this season forty two percent for the season. It was about thirty five percent for the two previous seasons. And that on top of the fact he really overall does not hit the ball hard. If you look at his savant pages, average eggs velocity is in the bottom ten percent of baseball. That doesn't lead up to being a very successful hitter. So at some point, you know ty France is is going to have to put on a long, sustained, full season of hitting success for the Mariners to I would say truly buy into him at first base. They do seem pretty bought into a first base He's he's funny, he's a likable guy and good in the clubhouse and all that. But I think ty France might be getting to the point where it's not necessary that they have to go into the offseason saying we need improvement out of this position. But it's not out of the question at this point because ty France is headed in the wrong direction season after season. 00:31:06 Speaker 3: I've had similar thoughts. 00:31:08 Speaker 2: I'm not saying it happens, but I think it at least has to be on the mind of the Mariner's front office, because when you play a premier offensive position and you're not hitting, it hampers your team because you're expecting your first basement to be a thumper. And even if ty France is never going to be a forty homer guy, you still need him to be again more like what he was in twenty twenty one, and if the Mariner's front office, the analytics team, the coaching staff, whoever else, does not internally believe that he's going to get back to that, then maybe it is worth looking outside the organization come this offseason. 00:31:42 Speaker 1: Does it shock you that his expected numbers are nearly identical this season and last with very different results. 00:31:50 Speaker 2: It is shocking, like they're very, very, very similar. So are we crediting some of that season to some really good luck? 00:32:03 Speaker 1: Perhaps maybe a mix. I would say a mix, maybe some bad luck. Potentially this season although this season again has already mentioned he's chasing too much, right, This is a guy who's not supposed to strike out and walk maybe a bit, but he's the worst thing about this stretch is that he's chasing a lot. He's striking out way too much and not walking at all, on top of not hitting the ball hard. That's the worst profile you could possibly have. That's a profile that gets you sent down to the minor leagues if you don't correct it. I think I thought I'd just put this in context before we move on to our next guy that needs to perform better in the second half. What were we expecting Ty Franz to be hitter wise on this roster at the BNA of the season, the second or third best hitter, you know, Julio one, either ta Oscar or Tie two in the other three, is that right? 00:32:51 Speaker 2: You could make an argument for Geno two since he was the second best hitter on the team last year, but two through four some combination of Suarez, Tie and Taos, but all of them lump pretty close together. So yes, you were expecting Tie to be one of your impact bats in the middle of the lineup. That's not really happening right now. 00:33:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, Ties eighth on the roster in w RC plus eighth, and if you want to take out the two guys at the top, Tom Murphy and Mike FOURD who haven't play, haven't had quite as many at bats, he's sixth, and that just again, that just can't happen. That's a guy. You're like, we are relying on the dude for offensive production and it hasn't been there. 00:33:30 Speaker 2: Okay, let's move on to our second player here, So I'm gonna highlight Jared Kalenick, who season as a whole has been really really something to sit back and glamour about and be happy about because he has made real strides both at the plate and with his defense in terms of where he was his first two seasons. That being said, there is a bit of inflation and his season numbers from what he did in the first month and a half of the season, because you look at May, June, July, WRC plus by month went seventy two, ninety two, sorry, one hundred in May, seventy two, seventy two in June ninety two. So far in July, they need a little bit more from him. I'm not saying he has to go back and do what he was doing in April, where he was the only hitter on the team. He was lighting the entire league on fire and was opsing close to twelve hundred. 00:34:21 Speaker 3: That's not sustainable. 00:34:23 Speaker 2: What I do think is similar to what we were talking about with ty Franz of the team needs them to be who he was in twenty twenty one. If Kelmuck can be who he was in September of twenty twenty one, that is the player that they need in the second half because if he hits combined with everybody else that started to heat up a little bit, that makes a big difference. 00:34:43 Speaker 1: I think Jared is a little bit different of a player than that September twenty twenty one though. 00:34:49 Speaker 2: He. 00:34:49 Speaker 1: I mean, he's just gone through so many changes at this point in his approach and his stance and his swing overall that I just don't know. If maybe end of season production wise, sure, yes, but overall he is different though. Now he is different, and I feel like we need to see the September version of the twenty twenty three Jared Kelnick instead of the twenty twenty one Jared Kelnick because I still feel like those are different players. One thing to note though, power wise, thanks to Joe Doyle for putting this out on Twitter front of the pod that sneakily Jared is on pace for over forty doubles this season. Now do you remember the last Mariner to have a forty double season? 00:35:39 Speaker 3: Did Belcher ever? 00:35:40 Speaker 2: Do it? 00:35:42 Speaker 1: The double check? Believe it was Jose Lopez in two thousand and nine. Oh, do check myself. I thought I was gonna put that in my notes, but I did not. 00:35:50 Speaker 2: While you do that, all I meant by September twenty twenty one Jared Kelnick is the results. You're right, he swings different now. His stance is different now, his approach is different now. But instead Stember of twenty twenty one, he put up a one to thirty five WRC plus And even if it's not that high, what I'm getting at is if he can be somewhere between one twenty and one thirty five for the second half, that's what they need because that level of offensive success, combined with what he's doing in the corner outfield on defense, that's a really, really good player. And with all the other guys that are starting to heat up. I know tay Oscar hasn't had a good few games to start the second half, but what he was doing toward the end of the first half, with Gino slightly heating up, all these guys that you feel like might start to be coming into their own might start to be coming into their own. If Kelnick can get back to having some real success at the plate, that does make a big difference. If he can be a one to twenty WRC plus guy. So I think they really need him at this point to be stepping up his game again offensively and work out some of the adjustments that the league has clearly figured him out with. Over May, June and July. 00:36:56 Speaker 1: It was Jose Lopez, by the way, in two thousand and nine. I did get that right. I thought something would very interesting that I'm curious to see what happens if Jared keeps improving on this. So he's stunk in June, he had to set Like you mentioned, the seventy two WRC plus. What I thought was very curious as watching Jared, who strikes out a lot, swings and misses a lot. His biggest problem, it seemed like, in June, was that he didn't swing enough. He swung at only under sixty percent of the pitches in the strike zone. Now I'm no expert, but not swinging only swinging fifty nine percent of the time at pitches in the strike zone leads you to get behind and counts quite often and not really give yourself an opportunity to hit. He is up that in July to eighty one percent swinging in the strike zone, which is which is really nice to see because more swings in the zone means you're gonna find the barrel a couple more times, and you're gonna gonna be swinging at better pitches. Even though he is chasing a little bit more. But overall, he's just swinging more and giving himself a little bit more opportunity to do some damage. Jared's never gonna be a huge walk guy. He's not gonna be Joey Vado. He's not gonna sit there with bat on his shoulder and watch the ball sail outside by one inch and get and benefit from a call and walk one hundred and fifty times a season. But he's the guy who we expect to do damage on the ball is in the strike zone, and kind of hope he continues to do that as this goes along. 00:38:17 Speaker 2: I have noticed over the first few games of the second half there seems to be a little bit of emphasis in Jared's approach with going the other way because in that Tiger series he seemed to spray the ball to the opposite field a decent amount and it led to some success for him in those few games. It seems like he's got an emphasis on that right now, And if that's the case, that's great because maybe he can start spraying the ball to all fields again. Like we've talked about a lot before, when he's at his best, he uses the entire field. That's who he was in the minor leagues, So that would be great if he started to figure out some small adjustment where he can start hitting the ball with authority to left field, to center field, and to right field as well. 00:38:54 Speaker 1: I have a couple numbers on that actually that I didn't get to. It's not just your eyes correct. So he's now hit this month of July, he's going back up the middle forty eight percent of the time. In June it was twenty six percent. He was pulling the ball over half the time in June, which I think didn't help him out a whole lot. So he's going back up the middle just way, way, way, way, way more. And he's also hitting the ball a little bit harder too. This month actually, shockingly enough, is hot. His highest percentage of hard hit balls higher than it was in April. So there are things that Jared is starting to do right alongside the fact he also has his lowest strikeout rate this month since April. It's under thirty percent. All positive trends for a guy who again literally just turned twenty four yesterday on Sunday. 00:39:45 Speaker 3: And that would be great. 00:39:46 Speaker 2: If he can keep this up in the second half, that could make a huge difference. So they are at the point with Jared Kalmick where after what he did in April and proving that he can be a real impact player, they need him at this point. They really need him to figure out in the second half to get this offense going. So hopefully he does exactly that. 00:40:04 Speaker 1: Got anything else to add on that, otherwise we can get to our interview. Wow, does everyone know we actually waylaid the Seahawks all time leading tackler. 00:40:15 Speaker 3: Yeah? He who knew? 00:40:16 Speaker 2: He was such a big baseball fan and did a baseball podcast and on the side while he's not, you know, racking up two hundred tackles this season. 00:40:23 Speaker 1: That's funny. But no, there are actually two Bobby Wagner's art though they spell their name exactly the same, and funny enough, they both love sports, so it's really funny when say, like Bobby Wagner drops intersection. I honestly can ask Bobby about this. But when Bobby screws up on the field, it's like, Okay, how many dms do you get? How often does that happen? So I'm curious. But Bobby Wagner is the co host of the Tipping Pitches podcast and they do talk about some very different things on their podcast. It is a baseball podcast, but they talk about some very niche, specific son subjects that I'm that I'm curious to ask them about a little bit because they're not analyzing where Shohiotani is getting traded at this deadline. I mean, they're talking about CBA, they're talking about what else they talk about. They have some some some other really great subjects bat like teams playing in bad air, quality, international presence of Major League Baseball, you know, the Braves, becoming a publicly traded company this week. Some some of these really niche business y subjects that are that are very interesting and it's a good conversation. 00:41:37 Speaker 2: I'm really I think this conversation was awesome. Again, Bobby's really smart, knows the game, and they picked a unique angle, like you're talking about. They said, how can we be different from the majority of baseball podcasts? And they found that because their podcast has had a lot of success, people really enjoy listening to them. They've got personality. So we're we're excited to let you guys hear this conversation with them. 00:41:59 Speaker 1: All right, let's get or interview with Bobby Wagner. 00:42:04 Speaker 2: All Right, We've got Bobby Wagner on, co host of the Tipping Pitches podcast. Bobby, I feel like I have to start with this just to clarify because we are a Pacific Northwest podcast. 00:42:15 Speaker 3: You're not that Bobby Wagner. 00:42:17 Speaker 5: Right, I am not that Bobby Wagner. Despite the fact that many fans, many media outlets, you know, maybe NBC Sports Northwest has tagged me is that Bobby Wagner over the years. Every once in a while, it's funny. I'll get like a tweet from someone who's like, oh, my kid, you know, my kid really wants to meet you, and I'm like, you should probably tag this other Bobby Wagner. 00:42:37 Speaker 6: Like I feel a little bad, so I'll like reply to them. 00:42:40 Speaker 5: But for the most part, I just like ignore it or whatever, because I understand it's very easy to confuse o's we have the exact same name. 00:42:46 Speaker 1: How many times a year, is it, like like three Sundays a year you get someone that just replies to your tweet and says, yeah, you suck. 00:42:54 Speaker 5: It's like, and it's pally not you suck because he's like a well liked player, you know, but it's it's anytime he does something really big. So if he's like about to sign with a new team, or when he came back to Seattle, I got like a whole string of tweets, but then for like three hundred and sixty days a year, it's nothing, and then for like five days a year, it's like thirty five tweets in a row. 00:43:14 Speaker 1: So I thought of this hypo I thought of this hypothetical. Say one Bobby Wagner, you lines up on the ten yard line with the football, and other Bobby Wagner stands on the goal line trying to tackle you. You have the entire field. Is Bobby Wagner scoring a touchdown? 00:43:30 Speaker 6: Uh? No, No, I don't think so, I don't. 00:43:34 Speaker 5: I think Bobby Wagner me is probably breaking a leg in that scenario, but maybe not. 00:43:39 Speaker 6: I don't know. It depends how far you give me of a head start. 00:43:44 Speaker 2: How long has this been going on? Is it since the time he entered the league or is it just the last four to five years. 00:43:49 Speaker 5: It's mostly since since like I joined the media world, really because like I did not have any presence online, any meaningful presence online before that, And so I would say it was like from the time I got verified on Twitter because when people saw the verified check mark, they just assumed that the person named Bobby Wagner at a check mark next to his name was the right one. They didn't think to think about anything else. And then now I don't think either of us are verified anymore under the new Twitter rules, and so I think it actually happens less because of that. But you know, I have a decent amount of followers on Twitter now, which seems like a silly thing to say because it's basically dying on the vine, but it still happens from time to time, So probably like the last four years or so. 00:44:32 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, this Bobby Wagner that we have on right now, you co host a podcast called Tipping Pitches, which is a baseball podcast, but it's very unique. You're not gonna hear the two of you, you and Alex Basley, your co host, breaking down pitches or stats or games. You break down topics that are very very unique and most baseball podcasts don't talk about. So you've been doing it for five to six years now and it's had a lot of traction and success so far. So what drove you guys to kickstart this podcast? 00:45:04 Speaker 6: Yeah? 00:45:04 Speaker 5: I mean it's interesting, we didn't always know what it was going to be. Like, Like it started when we were in our senior year of college. We were both doing stuff at the radio station, and we had kind of this auxiliary studio that was open on weekends and on evenings and stuff that no one was using, and Alex and I were living together. We were wasting a lot of time late at night having arguments, conversations, creative discussions about the baseball world and whether that was just what players we were really into or you know, it wasn't really like labor issues yet at the time, but it was more so like things that we saw in the baseball world that were not being covered as much and that we felt like we were interested in hearing people talk about, but we couldn't find anybody talking about those topics. And at the beginning, it kind of was like a blend of you know, platforming players that we were really into and talking about their personalities and talking about our relationship to the like pop culture of the game. And then over the years, as like the labor stories started to become bigger and bigger, and you know, candidly, like as our politics formed more clearly, like we started caring a lot more about labor issues, We started caring a lot more about owner conduct and the business of baseball. And now our show is like in this weird sort of hybrid zone where it's like about the pop culture of the baseball and of the baseball world, and like it's sort of like a comedy podcast where we're like doing bits and stuff and keeping them going and interacting with our listeners and you know, finding Alex and new team since the A's have abandoned him, things like that. But also every once in a while, when like a big story comes up in the labor world, like we really batten down the hatches and get like very serious about that. Like we read the entire CBA a few weeks ago, or I guess a couple of months ago now at this point, I've lost track of time this summer, but we read the entire CBA and we did like our deep dive takeaways from that and when when the was happening, like we were covering that almost like from a news analysis perspective. And so it really is kind of like a weird blend, but we think that it makes this unique soup that like a lot of people have really responded to our community, which we're you know, very fortunate for that. 00:47:17 Speaker 1: I think you know, Lyle and I decided that we wanted to give an elevator pitch to Alex. If you're willing to relay the message. 00:47:25 Speaker 6: I feel like, oh sure, yeah, we would. 00:47:26 Speaker 1: Be good candidates to sell the Seattle Mariners to Alex. So, wow, where did you want to start with this? 00:47:35 Speaker 4: Well? 00:47:35 Speaker 2: First off, I want to just say the first podcast that you guys did, which is the most recent podcast that's out right now, for tipping pitches, you got through twenty teams and you haven't done the West, so either the AL West or the NL West. So is it too late to try and sway Alex one way or another? 00:47:51 Speaker 5: Unfortunately, it is technically too late because we already recorded that. 00:47:55 Speaker 6: That podcast is edited and scheduled already. 00:47:57 Speaker 5: However, you know, I I even though Alex does choose a team, I will spoil that for anybody who's listening. He does end up choosing a team. He doesn't just decide to not be a fan of baseball. I don't think that's too much of a spoiler. I won't say what team he chooses, but my guess is that he will not become like really hardcore, I will only root for this team. So there's a chance there's a world in which you pitch the Seattle Mariners and that becomes like a sort of like collection, like one of the collections of teams that he supports. 00:48:28 Speaker 1: I think as a bit for your podcast to really spice things up. I feel like he's just going to choose the Braves. 00:48:34 Speaker 5: That would I told him that there's only one team that he could choose that would end the podcast, and that's the one. I was like, to the extent that I have a veto here, I am using it on the Braves and the Braves alone. 00:48:46 Speaker 1: So background for Bobby is a Mets fan. 00:48:48 Speaker 2: So yes, that's what I was gonna get at too. Now for the Mariner's sake of this elevator pitch, I mean there's a couple of ways I feel like we can go with this. You guys picked a few different times topics and gave each one a score for each team, So help remind me as we go along here which ones I'm missing, but I know one of them is jersey and stadium appearance. Right, feel like the Mariners have to rank in a decently high regard in that category. I mean t Mobile Park I think is a top ten park in the sport. Then you look at the Mariners jerseys. I heard Alex say, not everyone has to be perfect, you just have to pick one. I feel like you've got your kind of pick of the litter from the Mariners. Between there, I personally love the City Connect jerseys, the Teal jerseys, the Sunday Cream jerseys, even the White jerseys. I feel like they're up there with jersey appearance and stadium appearance. I feel like that's right as I feel like that's pitch number one to give to Alex says, you want to get a jersey, it's going to look good. 00:49:45 Speaker 6: I agree. 00:49:46 Speaker 5: Alex's weighed that like way more heavily than I was expecting him to, because. 00:49:50 Speaker 6: I think that you know when you have the ability. 00:49:54 Speaker 5: Well, first of all, he's an AS fan, and so he has like his own relationship to jerseys and the Kelly Green Jerseys. The days where phenomenal, the A's logos, the A's iconography, than being one of the oldest franchises, I think is really important to him as a fan. But he also sort of lumped that in with like uniform and stadium, so like what everything looks like, like the design eye of the team, and he cares a lot about that. 00:50:16 Speaker 6: So that was one of the things. 00:50:18 Speaker 5: Team performance, player li likeability, team culture, esthetics, geographic location which might hurt you, guys, since we we do live in New York. That is like technically the farthest baseball team from us possible. And then the last one is ownership conduct, which you know, given what our show is about, it's like ownership conduct in the sense of like what type of person is your owner? But also like how committed are they to the baseball team? How committed are they to winning? And though the Mariners are not like the worst offenders in that one, but I would say they're like middle of the pack when it comes to ownership conduct, like they have the Yes, they could definitely be better and they could be investing more in the team, but they could also be worse. They could be like Cleveland, or they could be like you know, Tampa not spending any money or something like that. So you know, it's a mixed back. 00:51:04 Speaker 1: Now, how much how much would it weigh that you have an opportunity to actively root against your old team and your old owner in the same division. I feel like that might weigh a little bit heavy from an angle of superiority, say the ms have a significantly better next ten years than the A's t olexit of a front row seat to all of it and root on demise. 00:51:27 Speaker 5: I feel like that's a point in the Mariners favor. I also it was interesting also for this podcast episode that we did, where we attempted to do this all in one episode and it just became way too long. Like in retrospect, there was no way we were gonna be able to fit this into one episode without it being three and a half hours. But we had, you know, listeners of the show call in and make the pitch to our voicemail and we played a lot of those. A lot of people wrote emails, and I read a lot of those on the air, and it was so interesting how some people were like, this new team might you of being an A's fan, you know, it might feel similar to being an A's fan, Like they might let you down in the same way that the A's did. And then other people were like going the opposite direction, where it was like, oh, you couldn't you you could not find a way to get further away from the A's, and so the Mariners is funny because like they are a very different franchise than the A's even though they are in the Al West. And he would get to at least, you know, occasionally watch the A's lose in Las Vegas and s they're going to be bad there for the first however many years, I don't know, it seems like forever, with how bad that roster is and how you know, depleted that franchise seems, and how terrible the owner is. 00:52:36 Speaker 6: Of course, but. 00:52:40 Speaker 5: He also was like, do I really want to sign up again to be a fan of a West Coast baseball team now that I live on the East Coast again? Like, do I want to stay up till one thirty every night? And I'm like, you and I both know that you're going to do that either way, whether or not you're rooting for the Mariners or whether you choose you know, whoever, it doesn't really matter, like you're going to be up that that late a night anyway. It might be even better for you to have a team that you feel strongly about to watch. 00:53:05 Speaker 2: Well, you talk about you talk about the farm system, and you talk about player likability. 00:53:10 Speaker 3: How's this as a sales pitch? 00:53:11 Speaker 2: If he jumps on the Mariners bandwagon, now he could be a fan before they signed show Heyo Tani, and then nobody can call him a bandwagon. 00:53:18 Speaker 5: That's exactly right, I told him when we were we actually so when we did record the Aos section and we went through the Angels, I guess this is another spoiler too, but he does not choose the Angels to no one's surprise, Like he's not signing up to be a fan of an arty moreno owned team. We were going through the Angels. One of the things that I did is I wrote down all of the players that I considered notable that are on the roster now, and then are also you know, top prospects who haven't debuted yet. And for the Angels, it was like Mike Trout show Heyo Tani, and then a couple interesting pictures and you know a couple of interesting prospects who haven't really panned out so far. 00:53:57 Speaker 6: And he was like, first of all, precipitous drop off. 00:54:00 Speaker 5: Second of all, one of those players likely will not be there next year, so we could probably just move on from the Angels. But you know that's a very compelling case that it seems like the Mariners are one of the teams to be like in the race for Otani. It would be really tough if like he chose to be a fan of a team because he thought Otani was gonna go there and then they didn't, And I was just like, You're stuck with this for the next fifty years. But I guess, I guess it's better than choosing to stay with the A's where we know Toanni definitely will not go, neither will any other star. 00:54:29 Speaker 1: At the very least, though, there's this safety net of having Julio there instead. So exactly, you you try and anticipate Otani's move, doesn't choose it. Oh, well, damn, we're stuck with Julio Rodriguez. 00:54:41 Speaker 6: Damn quite a consolation, Damns, Julio Rodriguez. 00:54:44 Speaker 3: Yes, have you seen that tonguesten Armo Doyle tweet? By the way, I mean's on Twitter all the time? Okay. 00:54:51 Speaker 2: I figured the answer was yes, But as we were sitting there talking about the Angels, I figured I just had to bring it out because I feel like I see it all the time now, especially with all the these games that they lose where O Towny's just going off and even when Trout's going off when he's healthy. 00:55:04 Speaker 3: So I just I just. 00:55:05 Speaker 2: Figured how much has that tweet gotten into the Twitter like Twitter world out in your world in New York. 00:55:09 Speaker 5: Definitely, they are a uniquely cursed franchise, The Angels. You know, it's so funny because you asked what the show is about, and it's sometimes hard to describe because we talk about such very topics and such. We don't talk about like the sort of quote unquote red meat topics that you would typically expect. 00:55:27 Speaker 6: In the media world. 00:55:28 Speaker 5: But our show is also kind of about like stuff like that, you know, like the unique curses of each franchise, the fan experience of each franchise, how much we have in common with other fan bases, where we vary with other fan base is. So I look at it and seemed like The Angels, and I'm like, wow, it feels a lot like being a Mets fan. 00:55:47 Speaker 6: You know, when I. 00:55:47 Speaker 5: Lived I lived in Los Angeles for almost four years when when I first started working for the Ringer, and I was like a team that is weirdly dysfunctional for some reason. Now we share a GM you know, like our GM used to be there. 00:56:01 Speaker 6: GM. 00:56:02 Speaker 5: They spend money pretty well, you know, like up with the top ten teams in the league, and it seems like it never goes anywhere, and it seems like they never have any prospects. But of course, being a Mets fan and being an Angels fan are such uniquely different experiences. But there's so much overlap in that ven diagram, and so that's kind of like a little bit what our show is about too, like the like cultural canon of like what the baseball world is like. 00:56:28 Speaker 1: While we're here on the subject of Otani, I thought this would be a good transition. The one sort of idea I had to ask when you were going to come on here in relation to your podcast, would be asked about show Hey. He's was the topic of All Star Week. The entire stadium in the city where it was beaming and wishing for show Hey Otani just standing out there on the field in not an Angel's uniform, and you're thinking, man, that could be an everyday appearance. And now the question is to get the Mariners to actually pony the money up for it. So if we're gonna sit here and think, how is showhy not just gonna benefit a team on the field, but how is he going to benefit a team off the field? How Like, how would you put into context of what what show hey o Tani is going to bring to a franchise Monetarily. 00:57:19 Speaker 5: It's always tough. I mean, you always hear this figure that you're here cited a lot. Is like Lebron James was worth one billion dollars to the Cleveland economy. Like that's a thing that people just say, and I definitely believe it, you know, like he was the biggest star in the sports world. He was in one of the smaller markets in the sports world in Cleveland at the time, and so naturally he's from Akron, you know, he's from the area, so people have a really strong connection to him. There's like no real way to measure that, though there was an Economists did not sit down and say, here is the GDP of Cleveland because Lebron is here, and here's how it changes. And there's certainly not like a billion dollar difference in ticket sales when he leaves. But what it does do is that when you have a star like that, and you have a star like Shohio Tani and the team is good which presumably, like the Mariners, would be able to build a winning team around him better than the Angels would, seeing as like the Mariners seem like they're trying to in the right direction already without the best player in the world. If you are good and you have that level of a star, you are suddenly like the center of the baseball world. And I don't really know what the center of the baseball world is right now, Like some people would say it's like New York or LA because those are the biggest markets, and those are the teams that spend the most, and those are the teams that get the most attention and eyeballs, and that's where Sunday Night baseball goes too most often, you know, markets like Boston and that sort of thing. But you know, think about a guy like Kenigraphy Junior, you know who you guys know extremely well, Like he made Seattle arguably maybe not the biggest attraction in baseball because it was also like during the nineties when the Yankees had their dynasties going too, but he made Seattle at least a top three destination for like baseball fandom, attention, eyeballs, viewership, sponsorship, marketing, and also like they were objectively the coolest at the time. So I think that that is the sort of impact that signing Otani can have. And I think people are really itching to have like a second you know, this is something they think about baseball fandom that I think is cool. Like fans are looking to have like a second favorite team a lot in the baseball world in the modern fan context, because like, you put so much investment in your team and they probably are gonna let you down unless they're like one of five teams that wins the World Series every couple of years, and so you want to have like the second team that you think is like really cool and fun to root for, without like the baggage of like the negativity of your own fan base. And so I think the Mariners would be that like no holds barred for every other fan base if they signed a. 00:59:48 Speaker 6: Ton, which is huge. That's a huge marketing opportunity for a franchise. 00:59:54 Speaker 1: I agree. But I went and I dug into the Angels numbers a little bit, and I thought some of these numbers were there are some that directly show that Shohy brought an increase in tickets. But fun fact, for both of you. I don't know if you guys realize this. The Angels increase their average ticket sales per game in from twenty seventeen before he signed a twenty eighteen after he signed by eight tickets. That's it, which I thought was I chuckled a little bit about that, because that seems like a very Angels thing. They were drawing pretty well before he came there, and they continued to draw well after. And funny enough, as soon as he's gotten to this tier of player where he's been the best player maybe we've ever seen their tenant has actually gone down and is trended down over the last couple of years, which is a very hilarious thing to think about. 01:00:44 Speaker 5: It's interesting, like I wonder what those numbers look like like when Otani pitches versus when he's not pitching. And the other thing is that that stadium it's not I don't know if you guys have ever been to that. It's not like one time. It's not bad, but it feels sort of like fake. You know, there's like the fake rocks in the outfield. It's in Orange County. It's not really in LA, but they say that's in It's in LA and so it's kind of hard to get to unless you are one of unless you live in Anaheim already or you live nearby in Orange County, and so it's not like the most exciting place to go see a ball game. I don't mean to like shade Angels fans. I think they probably feel this way as well, and like they just Angels fans dislike Ardi Moreno as much as the next guy. So the other thing is that the Angels are like one of the biggest teams internationally just from Otani being on their team, and the Mariners are already up there as well because of their long history with Ichiro. And so I think that if you brought in a guy like Otani, you and you're you know, on the West Coast already, like you suddenly have like a huge market share in Asia of fans. And you know, we saw in the World Baseball Classic last year, like the World Baseball Classic Finals the most watched baseball game of all time, you know, more than any other World Series game like that is that's been crazy statistic to me. And if you combine a guy like Otani and then like the hometown hero who's already there in Julio like that. There's a lot of cachet there. It's a lot going on. 01:02:11 Speaker 1: So for those ticket sales numbers, Bobby actually found some from last season. Weekend starts average up five percent from normal and then weekdays of eighteen percent per normal. That's pretty significant, especially for those weekdays. Mariners do not draw well during the week at all. They've had trouble for years getting people in the door without promotions during the week, so that would be something in of itself. And another thing I thought was fascinating that you honestly don't even think of, and people knew about this when I Tro came over and he was such a sensation while he was here in Seattle that there are fifty almost fifty media members from Japan that cover show Heyo Tani every single day from Los Angeles, and they are covering him exclusively to promote him, like you mentioned, back to Japan, a country of one hundred and twenty five million people. That's more coverage that you can ever ask for. 01:03:03 Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, I mean, and that's just like that's built in because of the level of superstardom that Otani already has and you know on the pod earlier. 01:03:14 Speaker 6: I think it was earlier. 01:03:15 Speaker 5: This year, we did a maybe a fool's errand of an exercise, but it was a fun bit to do. 01:03:22 Speaker 6: On a podcast. 01:03:22 Speaker 5: We ranked who we thought are the thirty most famous people in the baseball world, so not just current baseball players, but like retired players, people around the game, media members, analysts, whatever, anyone who is still alive who has had some connection to Major League Baseball. Who are the thirty most famous? The A listers we called them, And we put out a Tani number one, you know, like above Big Poppy, above a Rod, above Jeter, above a lot of other people who you might say, to an American baseball fan is a more a more name brand, so to speak, or has like a wider net of reach. But I just think it's like it's almost impossible to understand how big Otani is internationally. He's like the guy he's like Michael Jordan. You know, I think we like are underrating that because you know, we don't have that perspective that the Asian media market is showing to him. 01:04:14 Speaker 1: Who's number two? 01:04:17 Speaker 6: I think it was a Rod? 01:04:18 Speaker 1: Wow, really Okay. 01:04:21 Speaker 6: Has more Instagram followers. 01:04:23 Speaker 5: This is like gnarly but a Rod has more Instagram followers than basically everyone else on the list combined. It's he's created such a brand, and it's obviously like a brand, Like it's very clearly a brand. I don't think that that's like we're getting like the authentic A Rod necessarily. 01:04:38 Speaker 6: But he's like so present on TV. He's had like celebrity tabloid relationships for decades now at this point is his own business. He you know, has been an analyst on on Fox and ESPN, and so it's just he's just he's huge, and it's like we love him on the pod. Well we don't like necessarily love him the guy, but we love like the id of a Rod is so funny to us and we talked about it all the time. 01:05:02 Speaker 2: So who's your second favorite team? I know you mentioned earlier. Do you think a lot of people would have the Mariners be their second favorite team of Otani signed there? 01:05:11 Speaker 3: Do you have one? 01:05:13 Speaker 5: Well, it was the A's for a long time because because of Alex and so that was like kind of our agreement, you know, like our friendship agreement in terms of fandom is that I would root for the A's and he would root for the Mets, and it worked out really well because like they were never really like rivals to each other, and the A's playing the West Coast and the Mets play on the East Coast for the most part, and so they weren't ever you know, they're not often like playing at the same time or whatever, or in an inner playoff race against each other, of course, and now it's not I mean obviously like we're we're ditching the A's, we're jumping off that you know, burning building. But I don't know, it rotates, it changes from time to time. I try to I try to find a different team in the AL to be a fan of. Like I don't have anything against the Mariners. I watched them quite a bit. There are mostly teams that I just like don't like because I don't like their owners, or I don't like that they like are cheap or things like that. But like I said, I lived in LA for four years. It's weird to say that, Like the Dodgers are my second favorite team, so to speak, but I went and saw them a lot, and so I have like a sort of unique relationship to the Dodgers that I think I never would have had if I didn't live there. 01:06:22 Speaker 1: I feel like this, then exercise is also beneficial to you where you can rehabit. Oh, this, this might be a good reevaluation. 01:06:29 Speaker 5: Yes, Or I can also double down on some of my most hated teams, you know. Yeah, I can double down and say the Braves are evil, the Yankees are evil, the Rays are evil, like all these different teams that I already dislike, and I can I can try to control Alex in that way. 01:06:46 Speaker 1: So how would you balance this scenario like this? Then we heard the red Zonner I forget his name, come out at the beginning of the year and essentially say, you know, what else are you going to do in Cincinnati besides come see this? And you think of that and you're like, man, what a dick. And then the team comes out and they're arguably the most fun team in baseball, and you're like sitting there right in the middle, like, hmm, what am I weighing here? 01:07:11 Speaker 6: Yeah? 01:07:11 Speaker 5: So the guy that you're thinking thinking of his name is Phil Castellini. The owner of the team is named Bob. Bob Castellini. He's he but he's like not as involved with the team right now. He's much older, and they they think they are. They are not cool people, and they have a history of like you know, being kind of in on the team for like one year, and then when that doesn't go well, they like, you know, fire sale, and so I don't know, I try to I try to balance that personally as to being like, if the team is still fun, if the team is still interesting, Like I can overlook an owner because so many of the owners are kind of odious people and they are clearly in it just to make money, as we saw on the lockout last year. But like, given the choice to choose any team in baseball, Like, and this is the case I was trying to make to Alex on the podcast, and you know, I try to make to him in part two as well, which is coming out next week next Monday, Is that give them the choice to choose any team in Major League Baseball, Like, You're probably gonna want to choose one where the owner is not particularly egregious, you know, you might you want to choose the one where you know that the owner is not going to stab you in the back of the way that John Fisher did. And I don't know that I feel that strongly about it about you know, Phil castelliniar Bob Castellini, or whoever is making those decisions. 01:08:36 Speaker 2: So it's funny you say that because the Reds are my second favorite team. Now, I'm no fan of the Castellini's and watching them say what they said at the start of last year when they said where are you going to go? 01:08:45 Speaker 3: And what else are you going to do? 01:08:47 Speaker 2: I'd be mad if I was just a baseball fan in general, let alone a raised fan. Now, maybe part of this has to do that I spent last season broadcasting minor league baseball games for the Dayton Dragons, which is the Red High team, but getting to see Ellie in person for half the year, Like I fell in love with watching Ellie. I think the Reds fans are intelligent. I think they care a lot. I think they're passionate, which is why I like them. And also now that the Mariners and Reds have made all these trades over the last year, yeah, there's a lot of Mariners prospects and players that I liked, and I have no ill will Tour that I still want to root for, but they're playing in the other league, so it's still easy to root for them. So I think the Reds have kind of become my second favorite team in that way, minus the Castelini ownership. 01:09:26 Speaker 5: Yeah, that makes sense. I mean you've seen if you see noelvi Marte get called up and he's like sensational, that feels like you're a guy, you know, but it might hurt a little bit because he's not in the Mariners anymore. But of course, like you got to give up good players to get good players, and I think Luis Castillo is a pretty great player. But I think, honestly, I think sometimes we get in our we me and Alex, like in the Tipping Pitches world, like we get in our heads a little bit too much about owners, Like there is a way to watch baseball and there's a way to just like ignore the owner experience as much joy as possible, and sometimes, you know, they make it impossible to ignore them. The other thing about the Reds is that you know, the Castalanis might sell that team, like you don't know, like they might not own that team for the next fifty years. So if you're a fan, they could sell it to anybody. They could sell it to someone who actually cares. They could sell it to like an owner more like Peter Sidler, who owns the Padres and is in a small market, but invest in that team at the highest level, you know, no matter what the cost might be, because he wants to win and he actually seems like he cares about building a good baseball team, which seems like a novel concept in MLB these days. 01:10:35 Speaker 2: So, Bobby, we wanted to do one last thing with you before we wrap this interview up. A couple episodes ago, you and Alex were giving people some advice and tricks and tactics on how to play the Immaculate Grid. And it's two people in TJ and I who play it all the time. You would love to pick your brain about it. Okay, So what are some of those tips and tricks? I mean, we listened to a little bit of the podcast, but maybe you can both inform us and inform some of our lists and knows who I'm sure play as well. 01:11:01 Speaker 3: Yeah, what angle you like to take on it? 01:11:04 Speaker 5: So I'm just gonna be honest, I'm not I'm not like some of these other people that I see on Twitter, like sharing their grid and having like a fifteen you know, you know, a fifteen rarity score. But my strategy is usually like make sure that I actually look at every single grid before I start answering any guys, because if there's a guy that I can put in a place that I consider harder, like, I'll I'll put that guy there. And honestly, at this point in my immaculate gridding, my strategy is like not to get too cute with it. Otherwise you might think that you know Luis Castillo the Mets, Luis Castillo played for another team, and you might be wrong about that, and so you might be misremembering like a guy wearing one hat versus a guy wearing a different hat, And so stick to the ones that you know, like for certain at first, and then try. 01:11:58 Speaker 6: To like pull from from from deeper as you go on. 01:12:02 Speaker 5: And then the other thing is like the other reason I'm not as good at it as some of these other people that I see is because I just don't remember relief pitchers. And like, if you know relievers, they've been on twelve all of them have been on like twelve different teams because they all only ever signed two year contracts. But I often get like a Mets deep cut one that is really helpful because I just remember a random time that the Mets signed some dude to like a minor league contract and then called them up three days later. 01:12:33 Speaker 1: I'll only really go for a rarity score if the Mariners are part of the grid otherwise, right, I mean, I don't get nine out of nine often enough where I'm purely chasing a rarity score. When i end up saying, oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna pick this really obscure name, and I look stupid when I pick it wrong and I end up with a seven of nine, It's like, well, how'd that rarity score look now when. 01:12:54 Speaker 5: You didn't even get exactly when we added two hundred to it. So, like the other thing that I do is I I try not to rush through it, and I'm like an impatient person, and so sometimes that doesn't really. 01:13:04 Speaker 6: Work out, but I'll try to. 01:13:06 Speaker 5: Like if i get four and then I'm like stuck and there's a guy that I like kind of think might be an answer for one of those other squares, I'll just like not close the tab, but like I'll like leave it alone and then come back to it later because I'll be the way that my brain works. I'll be like sitting in a podcast recording and I'll just be like, oh my god, Nate Mcloth. I'll do Nate mcloth, you know, like something like that, and then I'll go back to the tab. But I don't know, like like some people who I know are just downright absurd with it. Like so the point where I'm like, you actually might need to find another hobby like this is not useful knowledge to have in your brain at this point in life. 01:13:52 Speaker 2: So I'm thrilled that you said that, because number One, my rarity scores are never good. I swear they're never under a hundred. I'm always somewhere in the two hundreds or three hundred and two. I definitely have the oh wow moment, like sometimes it just pops into your head, and I'm always just relieved when that happens, because I swear sometimes I'll be sitting there for a few minutes straight and I'll be looking at the grid and I like to consider myself as somebody who knows a whole lot of baseballs. I'm sure all three of us do, and I'll be sitting there, like yesterday, i was trying to think about Yankees Brewers, and I'm sitting there for a few minutes and I'm like, there's nobody that's ever played for the Yankees or Brewers, and like both. It's like the grid's lying to me, they're tricking me, they're doing this on purpose, and they're trying to piss me off. And then five to ten minutes later, I was like, oh wait, CC Sabathia spent out the season in Milwaukee, didn't he. 01:14:39 Speaker 5: It was like, all right, that one, yeah, hall of famer, you know, like, yeah, a very very loud example. 01:14:47 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's it's tough. 01:14:48 Speaker 5: And then sometimes there's like guys who have similar names and you think that that that one guy played for both of these teams, and really it was another guy who had like a slightly different last name. 01:14:58 Speaker 6: So Alex's strategy, which I. 01:15:00 Speaker 5: Thought was really funny and like maybe not that useful for other people to try, is just to type in letters and then see the names that come up and see if that spurs anything in his head. He's like, you can tell me if you think this is cheating, and I'm like, I don't think that's cheating. I don't think that's a good strategy at all. Like it just shows you random guys who have that name. It does not, so I don't it's it's a work in progress. I play a lot of silly games like that. Like I play a basketball version of it called Dribble, and it's like it shows you two players and you. 01:15:28 Speaker 6: Basically there's there's always at least. 01:15:30 Speaker 5: One player who is like a perfect link between those players, who has played with both of them. But you get six guesses I think, to try to connect one player to the other, and so it'll show like Kyle Lowry and you know, Tabo Cephalosha, and you have to like choose the guy who played with both of them, which I think is like really it's it's fun to do that too. So I'm waiting for the baseball version of that game. 01:15:54 Speaker 3: That would be really cool. 01:15:55 Speaker 2: I mean, if they if they can actually twist that into a baseball version, I mean I'll be playing that too, because I like to play the grid. I like to play Wardle or I guess they changed the name of it now too. I'm trying to remember what they changed the name of Wardle two. It's something. And then yeah, if they can change that, they can, if they can change Dribble into a baseball game, I'll be playing it. So I think they're just super fun they're fun brain teasers, and it just gives you something to do throughout the day. It's like how a lot of people like to play wordle I'd say. 01:16:22 Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I play a lot of those those little games. Like you, we need something to turn our brains on a little bit at the beginning of the day. 01:16:29 Speaker 3: Right exactly. 01:16:30 Speaker 2: Or if you're like us who live on the West Coast, you'll wait till nine pm and play it that night because you don't want to wait till the next day. 01:16:36 Speaker 5: I was just in California for two weeks and I was doing the exact same thing. Every time I would open it up to play, it'd be like nine to fifteen, it would be the next day's game already, and be like, ah, man, I forgot to play it yesterday, So. 01:16:46 Speaker 2: Right exactly, Bobby, this has been awesome. We appreciate all the time you've given us. This was a really fun conversation for us, and we certainly hope to do it again soon because we love talking baseball with you. 01:16:57 Speaker 6: Hey, thank you guys so much. This was a lot of fun. 01:16:59 Speaker 5: I love a lot of fun chatting about the Mariners, and I guess what tipping pitches is all about and I really appreciate the time. 01:17:07 Speaker 6: So thanks guys. 01:17:11 Speaker 1: All Right, that was a awesome conversation with Bobby Wagner Low You mentioned it to me a little bit after we wrapped up the podcast. But it's nice having something like a different tone of interview on this podcast. We're so serious all the time, but as with many things in life, it's really not all that serious, and I feel like that interview kind of reflected it. And I don't know, maybe a bit of a goal is to get a little bit more of that on this podcast, being that Mariners baseball isn't always you know, sunshine and daisies and fun to talk about. So it's our job to make something different and and and kind of lead it in that way. And I thought that interview with Bobby really did really did a good job in that department. 01:17:56 Speaker 2: Are we that serious? I feel like not all the time we're that serious. I mean we do have a Russell Wilson Ump of the Week and speak your Mind segments that aren't that serious. 01:18:04 Speaker 1: I feel like it's serious when you're talking about ex wobas and Chase rates. That sounds decently serious. Is it not? 01:18:11 Speaker 3: Okay? 01:18:12 Speaker 2: That part is. So let's rephrase, I think we have a mix. I think we have a mix of serious when we're talking nitty gritty Mariners, but then we have some lighthearted, non serious, funny segments, especially once we get toward the end when we talk speak your Mind and we do Ump of the Week that stuff. 01:18:26 Speaker 3: So maybe it's a mix. 01:18:28 Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe so. But if you go listen to Tipping Pitches, we go recommend it. You can find find them on Apple and Spotify in terms of really finding a different angle of talking about baseball. And like you, they are serious sometimes but then sometimes again they're just as Bobby said, they just kind of mess around. That's all it is, and it really plays into the good dynamic. And I think that's the part is as we keep growing and as we keep doing these that will learn really what works and what doesn't and how much we can fuck around and how much we can So it's it's fun and that's why it's a That's why it's a fun experiment. And we're glad that I would say that interview kind of reflected that that's the first time ever we spent serious amounts of time talking about Yeah, okay, what are our second favorite teams going to be not favorite second favorite teams. 01:19:20 Speaker 3: Who's yours? You didn't even get to say yours? 01:19:22 Speaker 1: Oh I don't. I don't think I have one. I think maybe we should maybe this off season when the season ends, you know this, this discussion might be get a little more serious. Say show hey decides to sign somewhere else. I mean, then I might need to put in some real work of a team that should balance out my uh my suffering with with this current franchise. 01:19:44 Speaker 2: Let's let's put a pin in that and circle back to that in the off season, because that could be a fun topic, similar to how Alex is currently choosing a new team on tipping pitches and Bobby's trying to help them with that. But, like you said, awesome conversation with Bobby Wagner. Their podcast is awesome. He was awesome. It was fun to kind of have the lighthearted conversation. It was a very easy flowing conversation. They really know baseball and they put a unique spin on it, so to kind of go away from our usual type of interview. There was a blest and we hope you guys enjoyed it too. With that, that'll just about wrap up this edition of edition of the Marine Layer Podcast. You guys know you want to listen to the full form podcast. You can do so on Apple, Spotify, Google, and Amazon. Go download our episodes. Give us a five star review. It helps us immensely. We can't stress that enough. Hopefully you're enjoying those podcasts. If you do, make sure to give it a five star review. And if you want the full video podcasts, go watch us on YouTube too, Go subscribe, like comment. We put a lot of effort into the video form podcast, so go check that out. And on social media as always, Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube shorts at Marine Layer Pod For TJ Matthewson, this is Lyle Goldstein. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon.