Lyle and TJ are frustrated watching the same version of the Mariners this weekend. Instead of discussing the play on the field, they debate over the pros and cons of the actions the Mariners could take to shake things up, both with players (9:13) and coaches (41:04).
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00:00 --> 00:08 [SPEAKER_00]: What's up guys, just a reminder that as you're listening to this we are one day away from our Mariners trivia night over at the Emerald Queen Casino in Tacoma We are fired up for it.
00:08 --> 00:11 [SPEAKER_00]: We can't wait to see you there It'll start at 6 p.m.
00:11 --> 00:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It's over at the BedMGM Sportsbook inside the Casino and we are gonna be hanging out with you guys We're gonna be doing Mariners trivia There's gonna be some awesome prizes to give away We're gonna be watching the Mariners A's game, so it's gonna be a watch party that goes along with this whole trivia night
00:26 --> 00:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And we can't wait to see you guys there.
00:28 --> 00:30 [SPEAKER_00]: We think this is going to be an absolute blast.
00:30 --> 00:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you haven't done so already, mark it on your calendars.
00:32 --> 00:41 [SPEAKER_00]: This Tuesday, May the 26th, 6 p.m. Mariners trivia night with us over at the Emerald Queen Casino in Tacoma at the Sports Book.
00:41 --> 00:42 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see you guys there.
00:42 --> 00:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to episode number 407 of the Marine Layer podcast.
00:45 --> 00:48 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners again lose the series to the Kansas City Royals.
00:49 --> 00:54 [SPEAKER_01]: They've still only won back to back series one time this season and the vibes continue to be terrible.
00:56 --> 01:21 [SPEAKER_00]: reminder you guys before we start this podcast do us a big favor make sure to download these episodes if you're listening and go rate and review five stars on the audio side if you're on YouTube like comment go hit subscribe on YouTube it's the best way you can support the channel you can also find us at our website marinelierpod dot com where you'll find our merch there patreon there episodes are all there it's a big one stop shop that's marinelierpod dot com then check us out on social media we're posting content every single day
01:38 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Lair of podcast, part of the Just Baseball podcast network.
01:43 --> 01:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Recording here on Sunday evening, May 24th, I'm going to get the one piece of positivity out of the way right away because we're going to have again.
01:52 --> 02:02 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of complaining to do on this episode and a lot of constructive criticism to have with the Seattle Mariners team, which lost another series this weekend to a team that was 10 teams, 10 games below 500.
02:07 --> 02:08 [SPEAKER_00]: That was pretty sick.
02:08 --> 02:14 [SPEAKER_00]: You want to talk about a dude who was locked in on Sunday cold and shout out to him man What was it?
02:14 --> 02:21 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a ride griffy cold Emerson the only players 20 or younger on the Mariners to have four hit games Yeah, that's pretty good.
02:21 --> 02:31 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a pretty good group to be with and I think it was the last Mariners rookie to have at least three hits this early in the season since Jared if I remember that right.
02:32 --> 02:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that was the stat
02:33 --> 02:34 [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty crazy, man.
02:35 --> 02:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It really is.
02:35 --> 02:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it was this famous famous three-hit game that he had against Cleveland in his second game.
02:42 --> 02:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Home run double double.
02:43 --> 02:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
02:44 --> 02:44 [SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty good.
02:45 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Colt.
02:46 --> 02:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll give credit to a man like he has looked really sharp.
02:50 --> 03:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's obviously looked sharp defensively and while it's been up and down through the first week with the bat, and it's probably going to continue to be that way with a 20 year old who's still getting his footing in the big leagues, you're going to see some stretches where he might go, you know, afraid of for 10, and then you're going to see him have games like that where he really flashes and he really explodes and to see that on Sunday was awesome.
03:13 --> 03:24 [SPEAKER_01]: and the murderers are gonna need to use every bit of that juice they get out of Colt Emerson that they can't this season because the rest of this team has really been unable to figure it out on a series to series basis.
03:24 --> 03:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Can I just list out a couple things to you?
03:26 --> 03:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's all the positivity, that's done.
03:28 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_01]: The rest of this episode's gonna sound a whole lot like some of our other Monday episodes of this season, because of the madingly inconsistent team
03:38 --> 03:55 [SPEAKER_01]: that again as one back to back series one entire time in this 2026 season and you watch them play you can exactly tell why so let's yeah let's rip off a couple of things in that while they've now lost both series to the Kansas City Royals a team 10 games under 500 they're one and five against them.
03:56 --> 04:02 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners are 18 and 28 against teams not names the Houston
04:03 --> 04:18 [SPEAKER_01]: While Randy Aro's reign had a pretty tough play over his head and a ball that almost left the yard against Brian Woon the fifth inning today, he looked about as lost mechanically as he ever did out in left field, backpedaling towards the wall, seemingly having no idea where he was.
04:19 --> 04:22 [SPEAKER_01]: A JB Crawford made one of the worst routine throws a short stop.
04:22 --> 04:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I've seen today, just no rush at all, just casually threw it away, which was also not great.
04:28 --> 04:40 [SPEAKER_01]: And then after the game, when asked why the team wasn't playing very well and lost another frustrating series, Dan Wilson said, well, it's just baseball, so there you go, did I miss anything?
04:41 --> 04:42 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a lot to unpack.
04:42 --> 04:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Julio had a couple miscues in the outfield, then what else?
04:48 --> 04:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the team wasn't good offensively until they were playing catchup in the ninth inning.
04:53 --> 04:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, dude, they had three runs in the series through 24 innings.
04:57 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_01]: We got a complete game shutout by who?
05:00 --> 05:01 [SPEAKER_01]: On Saturday?
05:01 --> 05:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Steven Colek.
05:03 --> 05:04 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not good.
05:04 --> 05:05 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
05:05 --> 05:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Like up through the first 24 innings of this series, you had a home run for Mitch Garber, solo Homer from Julio on Sunday.
05:12 --> 05:13 [SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
05:13 --> 05:14 [SPEAKER_00]: That was it.
05:14 --> 05:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Those were the only runs that were driven in.
05:16 --> 05:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Against the Royal's team that, again, is 10 games under and yes, the rotation is good.
05:21 --> 05:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But shouldn't be good enough where the Mariners are looking like that.
05:25 --> 05:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Just went and the Mariners had the pitching advantage again.
05:28 --> 05:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, you didn't.
05:30 --> 05:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you didn't face Regans.
05:32 --> 05:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Regans is injured.
05:33 --> 05:34 [SPEAKER_00]: You didn't face Waka.
05:34 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, you got Lugo on Sunday, but you had Brian Wugoing and the other two games.
05:39 --> 05:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it should have been on.
05:40 --> 05:41 [SPEAKER_00]: It's on you.
05:41 --> 05:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm sorry, they faced a lefty on Friday.
05:43 --> 05:44 [SPEAKER_00]: So I forgot.
05:44 --> 05:45 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not scoring against the lefty.
05:47 --> 06:07 [SPEAKER_00]: no they're they're definitely not scoring against the lefty uh and this team supposed to build a hit rightiest that's not supposed to be an issue no i got to tell you that Randy play we saw on Sunday in the fifth inning that is going to be used by literally coaches in early season fielding instruction drills for their players
06:08 --> 06:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I guarantee you literally coaches around Seattle are going to pull up that video for their players and say here is what you don't do when tracking a fly ball back pedal back pedal back pedal back pedal back pedal oh and then just over your head would it have been a tough play sure but Randy would have given himself a chance if he had tracked at the right way and gotten up to the wall I don't know what was going on in left field on Sunday but yeah
06:34 --> 06:36 [SPEAKER_01]: This is so tough to watch defensively.
06:36 --> 06:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, I'm tired of having this conversation.
06:39 --> 06:41 [SPEAKER_01]: But unfortunately, this is not going to change.
06:42 --> 06:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Like Sans, Sans enormous roster shuffle, the Mariners are again just going to have a terrible defensive team this season.
06:50 --> 06:51 [SPEAKER_00]: just like they did last year.
06:51 --> 06:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, but last year they're able to get around it this year.
06:54 --> 06:55 [SPEAKER_01]: They're not.
06:56 --> 06:59 [SPEAKER_01]: You might have some individual gripes about this series.
07:00 --> 07:07 [SPEAKER_01]: My main takeaway of this series was it's almost June 1st, Memorial Day is when this episode is going to come out.
07:08 --> 07:11 [SPEAKER_01]: At what point are the Mariners going to start changing things?
07:12 --> 07:15 [SPEAKER_01]: At what point is this not good enough?
07:15 --> 07:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Like this
07:22 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_00]: This is supposed to be the point in the year where you say it is, right?
07:25 --> 07:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Throw it away through the season.
07:26 --> 07:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody says by Memorial Day, you start to realize and recognize who your team is, at least through that point.
07:33 --> 07:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, this is not even near good enough through a third of the season.
07:36 --> 07:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I get that they've been bit by injuries earlier in the year, and that you didn't have a brush for a bit, and that you still don't have Gabe, and he's supposed to be working his way back here.
07:44 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_00]: And obviously the two big ones are Cal and Donovan.
07:47 --> 07:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I get you been bit by injuries.
07:49 --> 07:54 [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't excuse being 18 and 28 against everybody, not name the Houston Astros.
07:54 --> 07:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Just doesn't.
07:55 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Your rotations too talented for that, the rest of your bullpen is too talented for that.
07:59 --> 08:00 [SPEAKER_00]: You have too many other talented bats for that.
08:01 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's time right now to recognize that it's time for some change.
08:06 --> 08:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I would like to have a deeper conversation about this.
08:08 --> 08:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have anything pressing about this series that stood out to you that you're dying to talk about?
08:14 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely not.
08:15 --> 08:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Do I want to sit around and talk more about the series we just watch?
08:18 --> 08:19 [SPEAKER_00]: No way.
08:19 --> 08:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody does because
08:22 --> 08:23 [SPEAKER_00]: What's the fun in that?
08:23 --> 08:25 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the same thing we've been talking about now for weeks.
08:25 --> 08:27 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all the same issues that keep popping up.
08:27 --> 08:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm with you, most of this episode should be and is going to be about what can change for this team and how this team turns it around.
08:35 --> 08:36 [SPEAKER_00]: What action can be taken?
08:36 --> 08:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Because that's a hell of a lot more productive than just talking about that series.
08:40 --> 08:44 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just the same thing over and over and over.
08:44 --> 08:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And over we're talking about the same things of why this team is not very good.
08:49 --> 08:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, again, you want me to do the two long don't re-version here in 20 seconds before we move on.
08:54 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Didn't hit lefties, didn't hit with runners in scoring position, sloppy defense, sloppy base running.
09:00 --> 09:08 [SPEAKER_00]: There were no vintage Dan Wilson decisions that popped up in this series in the middle of the game, but that was like the only thing missing.
09:08 --> 09:10 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all the same other things that popped up.
09:11 --> 09:18 [SPEAKER_01]: So while I was getting ready for this episode today, I wrote down a list of things I thought this team could change off the top of my head.
09:18 --> 09:23 [SPEAKER_01]: That would make the kind of change we're looking for that could potentially jolt this team forward.
09:23 --> 09:25 [SPEAKER_01]: There's one that's not listed here.
09:25 --> 09:26 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not really a change.
09:26 --> 09:29 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just something that needs to happen and that this team gets healthy.
09:29 --> 09:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Because the reality is the Mariners are, the Mariners are playing down Brennan Donovan and playing down Cal Raleigh, which is huge and which is important and I think would help them score runs more consistently.
09:41 --> 09:41 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a fact.
09:42 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I think.
09:42 --> 09:43 [SPEAKER_01]: So those two guys came back.
09:44 --> 09:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of the issues the mayor has currently have with the lineup.
09:47 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Potentially could be solved, but not all of them.
09:49 --> 09:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's run through some of these other ones.
09:51 --> 09:55 [SPEAKER_01]: These other potential changes down the list we go.
09:56 --> 09:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Rob Raff Snyder DFA.
09:57 --> 09:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's one.
09:59 --> 10:03 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the most popular one you see out there besides another certain one on here that will get to.
10:05 --> 10:06 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, okay, so that's one.
10:06 --> 10:09 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll go through the reasoning with all of them, but we'll just run through all these quickly.
10:09 --> 10:12 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, Rob Rav Snyder, DFA.
10:12 --> 10:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Moving, Luis Castillo to the bullpen permanently.
10:15 --> 10:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Getting rid of assistant coaches.
10:18 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Calling up K to Anderson.
10:21 --> 10:32 [SPEAKER_01]: trading for players, not on your roster, so adding before the trade deadline, way before the trade deadline, a trading current players off of your roster to other teams that you don't like how they're playing right now.
10:33 --> 10:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And then of course the last one is firing Dan Wilson.
10:36 --> 10:37 [SPEAKER_01]: That's that's the list of things I wrote down.
10:37 --> 10:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Did I miss anything?
10:40 --> 10:43 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to think about anything else you really could do.
10:43 --> 10:48 [SPEAKER_01]: A Brennan Davis is inferred with the Rob Raff Snyder one, because he would be coming up for Raff Snyder.
10:49 --> 10:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
10:49 --> 10:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
10:50 --> 10:51 [SPEAKER_01]: He'd be the replacement.
10:54 --> 10:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think you hit all of them pretty spot on.
10:57 --> 11:02 [SPEAKER_00]: There's not really any other prospects besides Cade that are blue-chippers that you should expect to contribute this year.
11:03 --> 11:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So, not that are screaming that they're ready.
11:06 --> 11:06 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
11:07 --> 11:10 [SPEAKER_00]: So, there's not really anybody else in the system you'd yank up.
11:10 --> 11:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Michael Royals had his ups and downs through the first two months.
11:13 --> 11:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I don't think you're gonna see him anytime soon.
11:17 --> 11:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And with that, there's not really anybody else.
11:20 --> 11:21 [SPEAKER_00]: Same with, I mean, same with Lads.
11:21 --> 11:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know Lads needs way more time.
11:23 --> 11:24 [SPEAKER_01]: He's still striking out too much.
11:24 --> 11:25 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not gonna be him.
11:25 --> 11:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And Lads doesn't really fit on this roster.
11:27 --> 11:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Does this roster need a high strikeout left-handed hitter in this lineup?
11:31 --> 11:32 [SPEAKER_01]: That isn't really defender?
11:32 --> 11:32 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
11:33 --> 11:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
11:33 --> 11:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Not really.
11:35 --> 11:49 [SPEAKER_00]: So in terms of adding players, it's either going to be in your own system, which doesn't really exist right now for logical guys to call up, it be trade, or trade market, which it's so early, or it's getting, you know, taking players off the roster.
11:49 --> 11:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't think there's anything else that you didn't highlight that they could really be doing that we, that we should highlight.
11:56 --> 11:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And when I say trade players off the roster, let's get more specific.
11:59 --> 12:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's, let's talk about who that could potentially be.
12:02 --> 12:07 [SPEAKER_01]: A player in the Mariners starting rotation, or Randy Rosarina.
12:08 --> 12:15 [SPEAKER_01]: There are flaws in all of those, but why don't we go one by one through those and talk about the pros of doing these and the cons of doing these?
12:15 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Because that's what people want to hear about right now.
12:17 --> 12:19 [SPEAKER_01]: People are tired of hearing about, oh, it's just baseball.
12:20 --> 12:29 [SPEAKER_01]: If things are going to change, things are going to correct themselves, besides the scene getting healthy, I really think eventually they're going to have to turn this roster a little bit or turn the coaching staff.
12:30 --> 12:48 [SPEAKER_01]: to try and get a jolt into this scene because this current product would it's seemingly no one in a leadership position right now is willing to say is just it's just not playing well enough nope it's not good enough right now and think and things potentially need to change okay let's start off with this first one while Rob Raff Snyder pros and cons
12:50 --> 13:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I know people aren't going to like to hear it with the cons, but there is still a world you can argue where you'd be cutting bait too early, and you'd be cutting bait before he figures it out, and then once the summer hits that he'd really start to turn it on.
13:04 --> 13:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying that's going to happen, I'm not guaranteeing it's going to happen, but you are talking about 70 plate appearances.
13:09 --> 13:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So, cons, you cut bait too early, pros, you bring somebody up and bread and Davis who
13:20 --> 13:29 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm with you on that, and more specifically, Josh Nailer when he was the worst player in baseball this season was at 66 plate appearances.
13:29 --> 13:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Rob Ruffstone right now is at 69 plate appearances.
13:33 --> 13:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Now the pro of this is that you really only need to replace about 70 plate appearances or 69 plate appearances in two months.
13:40 --> 13:41 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what Rob Raff Snyder has done.
13:41 --> 13:44 [SPEAKER_01]: No defense, besides one Rob Tomron, that was fun.
13:45 --> 13:55 [SPEAKER_01]: No defense, no base running, just 70 played appearances in a platoon outfield slash DH role across two months.
13:56 --> 14:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, another part of the con is, if Brennan Davis is getting cold up for that, as we've explained, Brennan Davis has never played a major league game before.
14:02 --> 14:04 [SPEAKER_01]: You have no idea how he's gonna play.
14:04 --> 14:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Cold Emerson has played more big league games than Brennan Davis has in his professional career.
14:10 --> 14:12 [SPEAKER_01]: You have no idea what you're getting into.
14:12 --> 14:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So we say, oh, yeah, cold, good struggle.
14:14 --> 14:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, cold.
14:14 --> 14:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Gonna have some growing pains at the big league level.
14:18 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Same things apply for Brendan Davis, just six years older.
14:20 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
14:23 --> 14:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully, Brennan Davis offers the part of the short type of tune that could give you some production, but Brennan Davis or not.
14:30 --> 14:34 [SPEAKER_00]: That is not the end all be all fixed for this team's issues against Lieutenant pitching.
14:34 --> 14:41 [SPEAKER_00]: They need to go out and get legitimate bats right handed bats at the deadline to help with this and to turn this around.
14:42 --> 14:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And that can't happen here on May the 25th.
14:45 --> 14:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm all for Taylor Ward.
14:46 --> 14:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope the Mariners go and do that this summer and trade for him, but he's not available right now.
14:51 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_00]: There's just no way.
14:54 --> 15:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Brennan Davis can be a short-term fix and he could be somebody that even in the long run offers you something off the bench and on certain days against lefties, but it's not the end all be all fixed.
15:04 --> 15:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's do it another one.
15:06 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Moving Luis Castillo to the bullpen permanently.
15:11 --> 15:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you refuse to fan of my Alabama, I think it's time.
15:15 --> 15:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I've said that's been the solution forever now.
15:17 --> 15:18 [SPEAKER_00]: They won't do it.
15:18 --> 15:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why they won't do it.
15:21 --> 15:26 [SPEAKER_00]: He is now starting the next piggyback game as they announced on Sunday.
15:26 --> 15:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Today, when this episode comes out,
15:28 --> 15:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, the start will be on Monday, which good lord.
15:34 --> 15:41 [SPEAKER_00]: We've spent so much time on this piggyback, and there's other things we want to talk about in this episode that I won't derail us, but you guys know where we stand on this.
15:41 --> 15:51 [SPEAKER_00]: There's whole things ridiculous to see on Sunday that Louise is now starting this game over Bryce Miller is crazy, and we're out of explanations for why in the world this makes any sense.
15:51 --> 15:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it doesn't, it's like I would not sign up for this in a million years, and you guys know that.
15:58 --> 16:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Back to Castio being in the bullpen long term.
16:02 --> 16:07 [SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna have to find a solution at some point here because Louise Castio's under contract for the next year and a half.
16:08 --> 16:11 [SPEAKER_00]: If you throw the 180 innings next year, it's actually two and a half years.
16:11 --> 16:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that happens because one way or another, I think he is not gonna hit that threshold.
16:17 --> 16:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So when you're making a decision on Castio, you've already got five other starters because you've got Hancock, Gilbert, Wu, Kirby, Bryce Miller,
16:27 --> 16:30 [SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna have Kate Anderson eventually, whether it's this year or next year.
16:31 --> 16:34 [SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna have Ryan Sloan eventually, probably at some point next year.
16:35 --> 16:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And we've mentioned, you know, our guy Logan Evans will be back from Tommy John Surgery at some point next year.
16:40 --> 16:41 [SPEAKER_00]: That's eight starters.
16:42 --> 16:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Eight starters who you could all argue that if they're pitching it their best, or better than Luis Castillo at this point.
16:48 --> 16:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're making a heck of a lot less than Luis Castillo.
16:51 --> 16:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, actually the money doesn't matter, so disregard that.
16:53 --> 16:54 [SPEAKER_00]: He's gonna make that no matter what.
16:56 --> 17:00 [SPEAKER_00]: But you could argue that's a guy's that have more worth in a rotation at this point than the least.
17:00 --> 17:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So between that and I don't know how he survives a roster crunch once Kate Anderson comes up.
17:07 --> 17:12 [SPEAKER_00]: With already having to deal with six starters now, I don't see why not, man.
17:12 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna have to have some solution at some point.
17:15 --> 17:17 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't keep piggybacking for the next two years.
17:19 --> 17:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Now what are the pros and cons of this?
17:25 --> 17:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess, yeah, I guess that didn't really answer PraurCon, did it.
17:28 --> 17:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Clearly, I've still got some PTSD from this whole piggyback.
17:31 --> 17:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's actually not post-traumatic because it's current.
17:35 --> 17:41 [SPEAKER_01]: What, while it was our correct take on this whole Luis Castillo situation, but why is this, would this move be a good idea?
17:41 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_01]: Why would this move be a bad idea?
17:42 --> 17:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, it would be a good idea because you could put Castillo in a situation where he could max effort it for an inning, maybe two innings.
17:50 --> 18:01 [SPEAKER_00]: and he doesn't have to work deep in the games, and you hope that the stuff plays up in the bullpen, and it also gives leeway to the other guys that are going to be starting in this rotation long-term, a lot longer than Castillo is at this point.
18:02 --> 18:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So it would pave the way, solve a lot of the headaches, eliminate the piggybacking, and potentially, not just maximize Luis's ability at this point, but also bolster the bullpen, which does need some help at this point.
18:13 --> 18:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It needs more impact arms back there.
18:16 --> 18:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So that would be the pros.
18:18 --> 18:21 [SPEAKER_01]: It defines a role for him, which he currently does not have.
18:21 --> 18:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you wonder, right?
18:22 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Luis Castillo is starting today here on Monday.
18:25 --> 18:33 [SPEAKER_01]: What happens if he runs into trouble in like the second or third inning he loads the bases and the Mariners have a mostly built-up starter in the bullpen ready to go?
18:34 --> 18:48 [SPEAKER_01]: they pull him and crit instead of letting him allow five runs over five innings they just yank him and put Bryce Miller in there to throw six or seven innings like an actual starter does like they were willing to last time that's not a defined role at all.
18:49 --> 18:53 [SPEAKER_01]: That's again a flaw in the thing but at least a pro of this right.
18:53 --> 19:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It defines a role for both Bryce Miller and Luis Castillo and I think players operate much more effectively when they do know their role.
19:01 --> 19:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
19:04 --> 19:06 [SPEAKER_00]: You make Louis unhappy, I guess?
19:08 --> 19:14 [SPEAKER_01]: And if they don't think Kate Anderson's ready, you don't have another big league starter ready.
19:14 --> 19:22 [SPEAKER_00]: That's probably the biggest con right now because they may be in a situation where they need them to start more games in the next couple of months.
19:22 --> 19:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is why I keep coming back to this whole fan of my L thing, is if you wanna keep them stretched out, you can kick the can down the road on this for a few weeks and let them work on some things and let them throw some bullpens,
19:34 --> 19:35 [SPEAKER_00]: and go from there.
19:35 --> 19:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
19:36 --> 19:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's it.
19:37 --> 19:43 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a little bit more valuable right now than whatever that hell they're defining as roll as because you said it right now it doesn't have a roll.
19:44 --> 19:46 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't know what in the world he's going to do every five days.
19:46 --> 19:51 [SPEAKER_00]: At least if you put him on the shelf for a few weeks, goodbye everybody some time.
19:52 --> 19:56 [SPEAKER_00]: If somebody else gets hurt, you can slot him back in and go from there.
19:57 --> 19:58 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I'd say those are the cons.
19:59 --> 20:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't define a role
20:04 --> 20:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Like clearly, Andre's moonus didn't know his role and they've last through the piggyback.
20:08 --> 20:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, 9th inning, one run lead, Andre's moonus stays in the bullpen.
20:12 --> 20:13 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not, doesn't tell like a role to me.
20:14 --> 20:14 [SPEAKER_01]: No, is it?
20:15 --> 20:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Considering your closer did not close in a one-run game at home with the lead?
20:20 --> 20:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's not a defying role.
20:22 --> 20:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Seems like note, it seems like everyone is just kind of going with the flow, which is again, not really a sound way to go about a game that is that complex where you're trying to manage that much stuff.
20:32 --> 20:39 [SPEAKER_01]: It's better to have an idea of what you're going to do, going into the game, as opposed to just kind of freeballing it.
20:39 --> 20:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it seemed like the Mariners did in that moment.
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21:58 --> 22:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Next option on my list of actions, calling up Kate Anderson.
22:04 --> 22:16 [SPEAKER_00]: froze would be that he is already one of the five best starters in your organization and he would give you even more of a boost in your rotation for a rotation this year that's been good enough.
22:16 --> 22:24 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's totally lived up to the expectation that we got used to seeing in 23 and 24, where they were a top five rotation and baseball.
22:24 --> 22:31 [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe calling up K to Anderson if he really is that good and that developed and that polished already gives you a boost.
22:32 --> 22:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So,
22:33 --> 22:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess if you want to look at the pros, it's that maybe Kate offers more upside than you're currently getting out of your rotation and you end up maximizing that and benefiting off that.
22:42 --> 22:46 [SPEAKER_01]: So finally get a left left hand of picture in your rotation, which you don't have.
22:47 --> 22:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Do we think that matters that much?
22:52 --> 22:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Not entirely, but it can help.
22:54 --> 22:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the teams that have the Luke Rayleys, like the Mariners.
22:58 --> 23:19 [SPEAKER_01]: the carry carpenters they have a carry carpenters how great would it have been if the mayor said to left and it starters against the tigers last year then the tigers would have been swept yeah they would have literally would not have had their best hitter in the whole series be able to carpenters legit would not have started no he wouldn't the the tigers might have scored like two runs in three games mm-hmm
23:20 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so yeah, that in those scenarios like that it would definitely help and it's just something the Mariners haven't had you can have Righty starters who pitch really well against lefties That doesn't mean that the teams will stop playing those really good lefties like the Luke railies in the carry carpers against you and eventually in the case of those players They're going to go bet they're going to barrel up a ball and they're going to smack it over the fence and potentially and you're season Yeah, cons of calling up Kate Anderson
23:45 --> 23:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, number one, you rush his development.
23:47 --> 23:48 [SPEAKER_00]: He's not ready.
23:48 --> 23:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you've pulled the trigger on it too fast.
23:52 --> 23:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Number two,
23:54 --> 24:01 [SPEAKER_00]: If you call them up to be in the bullpen, I think that's a disservice to his development right now because it would be fine in September or October.
24:02 --> 24:06 [SPEAKER_00]: But in late May, early June, Kate Anderson needs to keep starting games as a starting pitcher.
24:06 --> 24:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Because long-term, he is a starting pitcher for this organization.
24:10 --> 24:11 [SPEAKER_00]: He could be a top-line starting pitcher.
24:12 --> 24:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So giving him less than 10 professional starts before calling him up to then put him in your bullpen,
24:18 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_00]: is now practice.
24:19 --> 24:24 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not the best way to develop Kate Anderson or have this team maximize on winning games.
24:25 --> 24:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Along with, then you have to make a decision with somebody else in your rotation, too, if you call Kate Anderson up to start.
24:32 --> 24:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you call Kate Anderson up to be a reliever, it's doing poorly by his own development.
24:37 --> 24:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you call him up to be a starter, then you have to make a decision with somebody else, both Castillo and one other guy you have to take
24:44 --> 24:48 [SPEAKER_01]: and what service does that do your team to take a bigly garm?
24:49 --> 24:55 [SPEAKER_01]: who, I mean, the guys in the rotation right now sans Luis Castillo are all pitching well to an extent.
24:56 --> 25:08 [SPEAKER_01]: What kind of service does it do to them to put Kate Anderson in their spot and take them out of the rotation and put them in the bullpen or in worst case scenario, all the biggest con of them all is that someone is hurt and hurt for a long time.
25:09 --> 25:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Which would be a problem and then the Mariners odds a success this year go down.
25:14 --> 25:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Regardless of Kate Anderson's in the rotation or not.
25:17 --> 25:18 [SPEAKER_01]: That is the biggest one right there.
25:19 --> 25:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
25:19 --> 25:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no doubt.
25:21 --> 25:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you hit that one.
25:23 --> 25:23 [SPEAKER_01]: What's up?
25:24 --> 25:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you hit that one pretty well.
25:25 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
25:26 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
25:27 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Next one.
25:28 --> 25:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Trading for players not on trading for players on other teams.
25:32 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_01]: A.K.
25:32 --> 25:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Jumping the trade deadline early.
25:34 --> 25:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that'd be great.
25:35 --> 25:38 [SPEAKER_00]: But it takes you to Tango and it's not easy to find and let me.
25:38 --> 25:42 [SPEAKER_00]: TJ, you know the worst team as a major league baseball right now by record?
25:42 --> 25:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's a great question.
25:44 --> 25:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it now the...
25:48 --> 25:54 [SPEAKER_00]: close, but it's not the Tigers, that would be the Los Angeles Angels, and I got news for you.
25:54 --> 26:00 [SPEAKER_00]: If you can guarantee there's a team in Major League Baseball, the Seattle Mariners will not be trading with, it is the Angels.
26:00 --> 26:02 [SPEAKER_00]: We've gone over this before, we can say it again.
26:03 --> 26:08 [SPEAKER_00]: That relationship between the two orgs and the two front offices, well actually, I shouldn't say the two front offices.
26:08 --> 26:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Between the Mariners front office and Angel's ownership is not good.
26:12 --> 26:18 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a reason the angels are the only team Jerry DePoto and his group has never traded with and they're decade here.
26:19 --> 26:20 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't see that changing.
26:20 --> 26:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's the relationship there is not Kumbaya.
26:24 --> 26:29 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think it trades going down between those two teams, along with the fact that's an indivision trade.
26:30 --> 26:32 [SPEAKER_01]: that makes it as least likely as possible.
26:33 --> 26:36 [SPEAKER_01]: That puts you with options what?
26:36 --> 26:37 [SPEAKER_01]: If you look around the league.
26:38 --> 26:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Astros are in the same boat.
26:41 --> 26:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Indivision, like they're pretty bad.
26:44 --> 26:47 [SPEAKER_01]: They have one blue, blue chip trade target.
26:47 --> 26:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Who?
26:49 --> 26:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
26:50 --> 26:51 [SPEAKER_00]: But let's be clear.
26:51 --> 26:55 [SPEAKER_00]: They do have a, they do have an absolute blue chip trade target, but I would just start trading him to you.
26:56 --> 26:57 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not trading him to you.
26:57 --> 27:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And even if you tried to pull it off, our friends on the just baseball show were talking about this just the other day.
27:02 --> 27:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think they're right.
27:04 --> 27:09 [SPEAKER_00]: The cost for Yordon Alvarez and a trade, especially the way he's playing these days, it's going to be a one-soto package.
27:10 --> 27:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I know Soto had two and a half years on his deal left, but it's the same idea.
27:13 --> 27:17 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to have to give up a King's ransom and then some for him.
27:17 --> 27:19 [SPEAKER_00]: The Mariners don't make trades like that.
27:19 --> 27:25 [SPEAKER_00]: The Mariners aren't making a trade where they're gutting their farm system for a year and a half of a guy who's going to be a DH, who may have injury problems.
27:25 --> 27:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I love Yordon.
27:26 --> 27:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I would absolutely love to see Yordon and Mariners uniform.
27:29 --> 27:30 [SPEAKER_00]: But let's be realistic.
27:30 --> 27:31 [SPEAKER_00]: That one's not going to happen.
27:32 --> 27:50 [SPEAKER_01]: If we go into the AL East, there are two clear options, and we've highlighted an option on each of these teams on the Red Sox and the Orioles, Taylor Ward and Wilson Contreras, but each come with their flaws, whether it be control, whether it be salary, or there be the fact that Wilson Contreras ended up in another altercation this week.
27:52 --> 27:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he is the fire the Mariners need.
27:56 --> 27:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's a contraris can stir it up, that's for sure.
27:59 --> 28:01 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, is he a little bit of a diva for sure?
28:02 --> 28:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Taylor Ward, I actually don't see that many flaws.
28:04 --> 28:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's not the world's greatest defender, right?
28:07 --> 28:12 [SPEAKER_00]: But he hits lefty, he hits for power, and he could be right in the middle of the order.
28:13 --> 28:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't really mind that he's only got half a year control.
28:16 --> 28:17 [SPEAKER_01]: You need him for this year.
28:18 --> 28:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Mostly what I was referring to is the control aspect, but this is your fit, great.
28:22 --> 28:34 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just not for the future, which sometimes the Mariners do consider, but then last year they kind of bucked that trend, which is why we've continued to look at Taylor Ward as a fix, but you don't know if Taylor Ward's available right now.
28:35 --> 28:38 [SPEAKER_01]: What do the Orioles have to gain by trading Taylor Ward to you right now?
28:38 --> 28:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing.
28:39 --> 28:40 [SPEAKER_01]: they don't even know if they're out of it.
28:41 --> 28:44 [SPEAKER_01]: No, again, it's, it's, it's, it's not even junior.
28:44 --> 28:49 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why this is a July 31st conversation, not an A 31st conversation.
28:49 --> 28:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And they can't leverage all the teams against each other to get the highest possible return for Taylor Ward if they're just going to dump them to you right now.
28:56 --> 28:59 [SPEAKER_01]: You wouldn't get Taylor Ward on your roster for another two months.
28:59 --> 29:01 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're lucky, if you end up even getting him.
29:02 --> 29:03 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's where a flaw comes in there.
29:04 --> 29:07 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we have the Royals, the Royals and the Tigers.
29:07 --> 29:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, I was just going to quickly say about Ward.
29:09 --> 29:12 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a point in Ward's career where he was a pretty strong defender.
29:12 --> 29:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Last couple of years not as much, which is what I thought.
29:14 --> 29:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, there's some flaws I would still want him.
29:18 --> 29:19 [SPEAKER_00]: We just saw this Royals team miles.
29:19 --> 29:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Is there anyone you want?
29:22 --> 29:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Bobby Wood Jr.
29:23 --> 29:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, are you defining anybody as literally anybody?
29:27 --> 29:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Realistic trade targets.
29:28 --> 29:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Mike Elgarcita too, he'd be great, but he's not going anywhere.
29:33 --> 29:34 [SPEAKER_00]: The answer to the question is no.
29:36 --> 29:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, most of that Royal's team is pretty young and pretty controllable.
29:40 --> 29:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And also, a lot of them are pretty left handed heavy.
29:44 --> 29:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Jack Cagley owns not going anywhere and it's not like he's been great.
29:48 --> 29:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't see the Mariners trading for Michael Massey if you want to throw another name out there.
29:53 --> 30:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't really think there's anybody in that Royal's offensive core that would make sense in a trade package and a deal.
30:02 --> 30:04 [SPEAKER_00]: How about the Detroit Tigers?
30:05 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_00]: They're interesting.
30:06 --> 30:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know we'll be contradicting ourselves here, talking about you'd have to make a decision on a guy in your rotation if you called up K to Anderson.
30:16 --> 30:23 [SPEAKER_00]: If Terex scoobled trade rumors are really starting to circulate and this becomes a thing, he is the one exception for the Mariners, right?
30:23 --> 30:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Say, okay, you gotta go look at that.
30:25 --> 30:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Because if you're serious about winning a world series, the Mariners do not have a true ace on their roster.
30:31 --> 30:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And the idea of trading for Tarak's Google to put a true difference maker, a true game changer in your rotation on your roster and in your rotation, is just different.
30:40 --> 30:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And you only do it for half a year.
30:42 --> 30:45 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not going to pay them, like you're not going to pony up the Scott Boris money.
30:45 --> 30:46 [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to try to demand for Tarak.
30:46 --> 30:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So it would be for half a season.
30:48 --> 30:49 [SPEAKER_00]: What I'd be interested in that?
30:49 --> 30:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:51 --> 30:53 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's not going to happen until later, I either.
30:54 --> 30:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Does that solve any of your problems?
30:57 --> 31:13 [SPEAKER_01]: a little bit because your rotations underperforming a little bit right now and he win healthy obviously would elevate it definitely would elevate it it's not even I think the top two problems on this Mariners team though which is mostly what I'm looking at for these like these early season trades.
31:14 --> 31:22 [SPEAKER_00]: sure, but when you're talking about raising the floor of a team that has a chance that preseason was tapped as having world series expectations, he does that.
31:22 --> 31:24 [SPEAKER_00]: We talked about this in the offseason.
31:24 --> 31:30 [SPEAKER_00]: And if it's real that he could get traded, oh, I'm start going back on that big time if I'm on the mariners.
31:30 --> 31:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying don't trade for him.
31:32 --> 31:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying like, among the problems, it's not at the top.
31:37 --> 31:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Not this second, and again, no.
31:39 --> 31:45 [SPEAKER_00]: We can talk about Terrix scooble for in the summer months as we get into them because that's when that trade stuff's really gonna get real.
31:45 --> 31:46 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not trading them right now.
31:47 --> 31:51 [SPEAKER_00]: The Tigers could rip off eight of their next 10 and then they're right back in it and then those discussions die.
31:53 --> 31:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And terms of the Tiger's position players, they're all underperforming.
31:56 --> 31:59 [SPEAKER_01]: They're pretty similar to the Mariners in terms of underperformance.
31:59 --> 32:03 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, maybe even a tad worse when it comes to actually stepping to the plate and hitting.
32:04 --> 32:12 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you go, if you're a follower of our bullpen banner channel as well, we've had our friend in fellow baseball creator Jacob for made the cut on quite a few times.
32:12 --> 32:14 [SPEAKER_01]: He's a diehard Tiger's fan.
32:14 --> 32:15 [SPEAKER_01]: He has,
32:15 --> 32:21 [SPEAKER_01]: fill us in in all the inner workings of the tigers and especially their position players underperforming.
32:21 --> 32:33 [SPEAKER_01]: There are a lot of guys on that roster where we're just flat out not hitting, and it doesn't really sound like any of those guys sands Kevin McGonagall who's not on the table at all because he's one of the top young players in major league baseball and just debuted this year.
32:34 --> 32:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Like none of those guys's mariner fans that actually want.
32:37 --> 32:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, people would look at Riley Green, but that's not going to happen.
32:41 --> 32:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, how does that solve the mariner's problems?
32:44 --> 32:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, a high strikeout, a high strikeout, left hand and hitter.
32:49 --> 32:52 [SPEAKER_00]: So Riley Green has been crushing lefties this year.
32:52 --> 32:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh good.
32:54 --> 32:55 [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay.
32:55 --> 32:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, but he's a highly played appearances.
32:59 --> 33:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a ton.
33:00 --> 33:03 [SPEAKER_01]: He has been crushing lefties across 63 played appearances.
33:03 --> 33:05 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's still about Rob Reftsider.
33:05 --> 33:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, and again, we're still wasting our time and breath on that because Riley Greene's not getting traded.
33:11 --> 33:19 [SPEAKER_00]: He's not a free agent until 2029, and the Tigers still have enough pieces in their young core where even if Scoobal goes this summer, the rest of them aren't like Greene's going nowhere.
33:21 --> 33:47 [SPEAKER_01]: are other options if we go to the national league of teams who are clearly out of it right now i'd say the meds and then i would also say the color of rockies and the San Francisco giants we've had a whole episode dedicated to the giants we don't even need to talk about them not a great fit really on that team unless you're willing to take on an absurd amount of money so that kind of leaves uh... the meds and the rockies and i think the meds are in kind of while a similar situation to the giants
33:49 --> 33:52 [SPEAKER_00]: They are, but they're not selling off at the end of May either.
33:52 --> 33:55 [SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna have to wait again until the end of July.
33:56 --> 34:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Because the Mets have too much money spent into that roster and on that payroll and too much invested in this season, even though it's gone terribly through two months to give up on it at the end of May.
34:07 --> 34:11 [SPEAKER_00]: If the Mets are not playing well at the end of July, sure they'll trade some guys, but they're not doing it yet.
34:13 --> 34:30 [SPEAKER_01]: puts Mariners in a tough spot because that what we're just what we essentially are laying out here is that unless there's some secret of player that is surprisingly available that the Mariners were able to jump on, the help for this team is not going to come from another team until the end of July.
34:31 --> 34:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
34:32 --> 34:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, even if you want to go through the Rockies roster really quick, is there anybody that even in Treesu?
34:37 --> 34:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think anybody that's realistic does.
34:39 --> 34:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Troy Johnson's really hit for them, but he's like a rookie.
34:43 --> 34:46 [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't hit for agency until 2032.
34:46 --> 34:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So he's going nowhere.
34:48 --> 34:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Mickey Moni acts another left handed bat.
34:51 --> 34:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So I doubt that solves your problems.
34:55 --> 34:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't know who that guy would be.
34:59 --> 35:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's try this one then as we move to our next action subject.
35:03 --> 35:05 [SPEAKER_01]: What if the Mariners trade a player off their roster?
35:07 --> 35:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Who would you want that to be?
35:10 --> 35:11 [SPEAKER_00]: let's listen to some options.
35:11 --> 35:17 [SPEAKER_00]: So you mentioned at the start of this episode, it would either be somebody in the rotation or in B Randy or I was right now.
35:18 --> 35:26 [SPEAKER_01]: You'd be trading someone in your rotation to attempt to get an impact player or bat in an area of weakness for you or moving Randy because he's an impending for agent.
35:26 --> 35:33 [SPEAKER_01]: He's hitting incredibly well, but also making some very frustrating defensive plays for you and trying to sort of get that.
35:34 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_01]: sort of bad defense, bad base running, reckless approach to playing baseball, which works sometimes, but this season for the Mariners, it is not working and something they kind of want to steer themselves away for.
35:46 --> 35:50 [SPEAKER_01]: If you don't think Randy's going to resign and you think you get some value for them, then you trade them.
35:51 --> 35:53 [SPEAKER_01]: So those are, I see, those what I think are the options.
35:54 --> 35:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess if you want to speculate about,
35:57 --> 36:03 [SPEAKER_00]: how tightly-knit that clubhouse is and how tightly-knit him and Calar at this point after what happened in the WBC.
36:04 --> 36:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Could you wonder if there's still some effects playing out with that internally that nobody's seeing?
36:08 --> 36:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess.
36:09 --> 36:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Totally fair to wonder.
36:11 --> 36:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Randy Oros Arena, though, has been your best hair.
36:14 --> 36:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not really close either.
36:16 --> 36:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So,
36:17 --> 36:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't see how in the world they could trade him off this roster right now and say this is what we're doing for the sake of the team winning baseball games there's just no way.
36:27 --> 36:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Look he drives me nuts playing the field he drives me nuts often when he's on the basis but you just can't remove his bat he has done way too much for this offense to be trading him away for a team that's supposed to be competing for a world series.
36:45 --> 36:55 [SPEAKER_01]: That leaves us with the rotation and you can use the exact same argument while how in the world do the mariners get better trading a starter out of the rotation.
36:55 --> 37:08 [SPEAKER_01]: We've already talked about how Luis Castillo isn't really tradable because he's not pitching well and he's making a ton of money and the only the only thing you could get back for Luis Castillo is low level prospects at this point.
37:10 --> 37:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Part of me still wonders if the reason they will not make a decision on Luis Castillo.
37:14 --> 37:17 [SPEAKER_00]: We may have talked about this a little bit, but I'll bring it up again.
37:18 --> 37:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Is Jerry just hell-bent on trying to up Luis Castillo's trade value with a couple good starts so they can split them away?
37:27 --> 37:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, again, we don't have logical explanations for why they continue to run these piggybacks out there.
37:32 --> 37:33 [SPEAKER_00]: We have none.
37:33 --> 37:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So I guess that's one more plausible one.
37:35 --> 37:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Does Jerry think a couple good starts out of Louise could warn some trade value.
37:39 --> 37:43 [SPEAKER_00]: But even if it does, you still have to trade away as contract, which is massive.
37:44 --> 37:56 [SPEAKER_00]: and you still would have to find somebody to not just take them on, but give you something in return that you're satisfied with, and I don't know what that's going to be, because I don't know how you get big league players back right now for Luis Castillo.
37:57 --> 38:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you get prospects back, then is that a benefit to you?
38:01 --> 38:04 [SPEAKER_01]: To essentially dumping Luis Castillo off your roster for prospects.
38:04 --> 38:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I still think the Luis can do something on your team and be one of the 13 best pitchers in your organization out of
38:12 --> 38:16 [SPEAKER_00]: 100% and if you need them to start more games because of an injury, then there's that.
38:17 --> 38:19 [SPEAKER_01]: So it takes that off the table.
38:19 --> 38:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
38:19 --> 38:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know how the Castillo trade really ups the Mariners win total.
38:24 --> 38:30 [SPEAKER_01]: What if you trade a Logan Gilbert or George Kirby, guys who will be free agents at some point and as of now, are not extended.
38:34 --> 38:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess you could list out potential pros of that, although I think they're very slim, but I think there's way more cons to the message it would send to the clubhouse, to what it would do to the depth in your rotation, to what it would do to your overall roster when you're trying to win a world series.
38:52 --> 38:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way,
38:54 --> 39:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Logan Gilbert's trade value is probably at an all-time low right now, so I don't see why trading him now would be the smart move.
39:02 --> 39:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it is at all.
39:04 --> 39:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't trade him period.
39:06 --> 39:07 [SPEAKER_01]: What about Kirby?
39:09 --> 39:14 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's certainly got trade value because he's pitching really well, he's got extra control.
39:14 --> 39:30 [SPEAKER_00]: You could actually probably get a real haul back form, but again, how in the world do you sell your fan base to your clubhouse, to everybody that you're serious about winning a world series, if you're going to trade away one of the best arms so far in 26.
39:32 --> 39:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm with you again on that.
39:34 --> 39:39 [SPEAKER_01]: There's not an easy solution here when it comes to the actual players on your roster.
39:39 --> 39:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Whether it be adding, whether it be trading, whether it be cutting, whether it be waving.
39:44 --> 39:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Look, what is really going to make the impact of shuffling these guys?
39:50 --> 39:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Can I ask us right now, right here right now on May 24th?
39:54 --> 39:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
39:57 --> 40:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there's a player out there that you can circle and say, yeah, they're available now.
40:02 --> 40:04 [SPEAKER_01]: We make sure I get this right now.
40:04 --> 40:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to bring up both school reference for you right here.
40:06 --> 40:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, while you're looking that up, honestly, honestly, you want to know who I would tab is the most realistic of all those guys we've talked about, and I'm not saying it is realistic.
40:16 --> 40:23 [SPEAKER_00]: But if I happen to pick somebody that was most realistic, I'd honestly say Wilson can try us because there is a world that the Red Sox,
40:23 --> 40:49 [SPEAKER_00]: are fed up with his antics that they're saying okay we don't want to keep this guy under contract for the next couple years we're not playing all that I mean the red talks have dug their way out of the hole they were in to start the year but they could still say okay we're ready we're ready to give Wilson contrast to somebody else and the Mariners would say here's the right hand about that could legitimately do some impact with our offense and against Lieutenant pitching I don't think it's happening but if you want me to pick a guy that's most realistic I'd say him.
40:51 --> 40:54 [SPEAKER_01]: in regards to this mariner's roster and churning players' allow.
40:55 --> 41:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I like to use the example of what would happen for to Newton's third law of motion.
41:02 --> 41:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember what that is?
41:03 --> 41:06 [SPEAKER_00]: What in the literal fuck is that?
41:06 --> 41:08 [SPEAKER_00]: You took, did you ever take physics?
41:10 --> 41:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, I don't know.
41:11 --> 41:13 [SPEAKER_01]: That was a sarcastic question.
41:13 --> 41:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think you ever took physics.
41:14 --> 41:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I've been in a physics class.
41:16 --> 41:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think you would have passed a physics class.
41:18 --> 41:18 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
41:19 --> 41:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So Newton's third law of physics, or sorry, not third law of physics, third law of motion, is that for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction.
41:29 --> 41:39 [SPEAKER_01]: So you could do something with this Mariners roster, that would shovel up the roster, definitely change something, perhaps make you better in one area.
41:40 --> 41:42 [SPEAKER_01]: But then what is the reaction going to be of that move?
41:42 --> 41:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And as we've laid out, the reactions from a ton of these moves that the Mariners could potentially make.
41:49 --> 42:16 [SPEAKER_00]: would potentially not be a net positive correct you know what I have heard those words spoken before I can't tell you what I mean imagine I think people have used this in a sports context so many times before so I've heard those words spoken can tell you what it means certainly couldn't write it down in a physics class but I have heard the words all right we have a couple more action items to talk about before we get to those let's pause for an ad
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43:30 --> 43:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Now we move on to the coaching staff.
43:33 --> 43:35 [SPEAKER_01]: What if the Mariners let go of an assistant coach?
43:37 --> 43:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess, but what does that ever do, man?
43:41 --> 43:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember when the Mariners let Bran go, couple months into 2024, did that change anything?
43:49 --> 43:50 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, they were just mad.
43:50 --> 43:51 [SPEAKER_00]: He didn't.
43:51 --> 43:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Hitting coaches are the biggest scapegoats of all time.
43:55 --> 43:56 [SPEAKER_00]: They really are.
43:56 --> 43:57 [SPEAKER_00]: That didn't do anything.
43:58 --> 44:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Firing to heart didn't do anything.
44:01 --> 44:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I know the Mariners the final few weeks of 2024,
44:04 --> 44:06 [SPEAKER_00]: played much better baseball.
44:06 --> 44:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it was because they fired their other hitting coach.
44:09 --> 44:20 [SPEAKER_00]: When Bram Brown were supposed to be the head of it and to hard it that year was working essentially under a Brown, I don't think firing your extra hitting coach was the reason the Mariners started winning games that year.
44:20 --> 44:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So no, like if you're gonna fire a hitting coach, I don't think that's gonna do anything.
44:24 --> 44:27 [SPEAKER_00]: You're definitely not firing Pete Woodworth or Trent Blank.
44:27 --> 44:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Those guys have been absolutely invaluable.
44:29 --> 44:35 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know what a system coach would either get the axe or get the axe where it actually has an impact.
44:37 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_01]: What's funny about firing the hitting coach in the scenarios that most players on the roster have been hitting well.
44:43 --> 45:08 [SPEAKER_01]: right it just haven't been and it just hasn't led to scoring runs this Kevin sites sites are deserve to get fired because the monitors aren't heading with runners and scoring position my take on that is no i don't think so i don't think so either and by the way if you're gonna fire somebody i hate to bring this up guys because i know what he means to the franchise but i do have to bring it up if you're talking about firing a hitting coach
45:09 --> 45:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't Edgar run the hitting operation.
45:11 --> 45:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't need a lot of the department.
45:13 --> 45:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Sites are the hitting coach, but Edgar is the one who has the hired title than Siteser.
45:18 --> 45:20 [SPEAKER_01]: The director of hitting, I believe, is his title.
45:20 --> 45:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't really know what letting Siteser go.
45:25 --> 45:27 [SPEAKER_00]: but keeping Edgar would do.
45:28 --> 45:34 [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like, again, the de-hart thing all over again, you fire the hitting coach that was under the higher up hitting coach in 24.
45:35 --> 45:35 [SPEAKER_00]: What's that gonna do?
45:36 --> 45:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So again, I don't think it makes sense to let anybody from this hitting department go.
45:42 --> 45:45 [SPEAKER_01]: That leads us to our last action item that the Mariners could take.
45:45 --> 45:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's by far the most popular one online of the last three weeks.
45:48 --> 45:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Firing Dan Wilson, pros and cons.
45:53 --> 45:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Why don't you start with the pros?
45:56 --> 45:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Or sorry, sorry, sorry.
45:57 --> 46:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Why don't you start with the cons, the cons?
46:01 --> 46:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Who's going to manage the team otherwise?
46:03 --> 46:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Is a question I would have.
46:04 --> 46:08 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's use the Philly's for an example because people are loving that example.
46:09 --> 46:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Don Maddenly's third manager now.
46:11 --> 46:12 [SPEAKER_01]: He is.
46:12 --> 46:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
46:14 --> 46:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Did the Mariners have Dawn Maddingly anywhere?
46:16 --> 46:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, Dawn Maddingly managed a good Dodgers team for a while.
46:19 --> 46:22 [SPEAKER_01]: He's been a successful manager at Major League Baseball all over the place.
46:23 --> 46:32 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners don't really have a manager on the staff that I would feel comfortable in taking over.
46:32 --> 46:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about the options here.
46:34 --> 46:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Maniacta has managed in the past.
46:37 --> 46:37 [SPEAKER_01]: He's
46:37 --> 46:47 [SPEAKER_01]: historically not gray manager and I guess knowing what we know like many is also part of like the decision making crew of that Mariners coaching staff.
46:49 --> 46:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And the decisions are not good and I just don't know if I have I don't know if I have confidence in Maniac to to manage this team much better than Dan Wilson is being is managing it right now.
46:59 --> 47:00 [SPEAKER_01]: That's I mean that's option one.
47:01 --> 47:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Can I just say to the couple times that Maniac has had to step in and take the reins as the manager since he's been in Seattle.
47:08 --> 47:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean there was the game a couple weeks ago when he let Logan Gilbert go back out for the seventh inning after he got up five runs and he gives us like a hundred pitches.
47:17 --> 47:19 [SPEAKER_00]: He was at like close to a hundred pitches.
47:19 --> 47:19 [SPEAKER_00]: He goes back out.
47:19 --> 47:25 [SPEAKER_00]: He gives up a two-run homeer again when the Mariners are crawled back into it to make it five-two, so at least manageable.
47:25 --> 47:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Then it turned to seven-two.
47:27 --> 47:29 [SPEAKER_00]: He let Luke Rayley hit against the left.
47:29 --> 47:32 [SPEAKER_00]: He late in the game, which didn't make any sense, and I think it was more on of all people.
47:33 --> 47:34 [SPEAKER_00]: So that happened.
47:35 --> 47:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And then this is going to be a deep cut.
47:37 --> 47:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if anybody else can remember this.
47:39 --> 47:40 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a game.
47:40 --> 47:40 [SPEAKER_00]: I believe in 2018.
47:42 --> 47:46 [SPEAKER_00]: where the Mariners were playing the Tigers in Detroit.
47:46 --> 47:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I think if I remember right, Scott Service took one game off because he went to go to his daughter's college graduation.
47:54 --> 47:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So there was a game, maybe two games where Manny Acta had to take over as the manager.
47:59 --> 48:06 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a play at the plate where somebody was legitimately thrown out for the Tigers by what had to have been forfeet.
48:06 --> 48:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Somehow the Empire called him safe and Manny Acta did not challenge it.
48:12 --> 48:13 [SPEAKER_01]: It seems like a problem.
48:14 --> 48:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a reason many acta hasn't had a manager's job in what?
48:18 --> 48:19 [SPEAKER_00]: 15 years?
48:20 --> 48:22 [SPEAKER_01]: The way hasn't hired off the staff.
48:23 --> 48:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
48:23 --> 48:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
48:24 --> 48:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's the solution.
48:27 --> 48:31 [SPEAKER_01]: And I would say the same goes for many of the other assistant coaches on the Mariners staff.
48:32 --> 48:36 [SPEAKER_01]: He would worth Trent Blank.
48:36 --> 48:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Austin, Nola.
48:38 --> 48:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he just got hired this year.
48:40 --> 48:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Like points dance.
48:41 --> 48:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we'll Mariners fan say that their version of Don Maddingly is Edgar.
48:45 --> 48:47 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, just let Edgar take over as the manager.
48:48 --> 48:50 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, I'm just going to say right here.
48:50 --> 48:51 [SPEAKER_01]: That is not an option.
48:52 --> 48:54 [SPEAKER_00]: No, absolutely not absolutely not.
48:54 --> 48:57 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a reason he's not the full-time hitting coach, guys.
48:58 --> 49:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, he doesn't even travel on the road.
49:00 --> 49:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Not all the time.
49:01 --> 49:05 [SPEAKER_01]: No, like the site serves the day-to-day hitting coach of the team.
49:05 --> 49:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, if Edgar doesn't want to be the hitting coach day-to-day, then I'm just, like, you can't expect him to be the manager a more stressful job day-to-day-to-day.
49:15 --> 49:16 [SPEAKER_01]: That's, that's not happening.
49:16 --> 49:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, back to the Dan Wilson point of what happened when he was originally hired, Edgar has never managed.
49:25 --> 49:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
49:26 --> 49:30 [SPEAKER_01]: So you just put yourself back in the same situation you were before with a different person.
49:30 --> 49:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that really solved the issue?
49:32 --> 49:36 [SPEAKER_00]: No, something tells me Ed your doesn't know how to make bullpen decisions.
49:36 --> 49:36 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
49:37 --> 49:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Now it's something he's been worrying about in his life.
49:40 --> 49:59 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's the, I'd say the major con for me right now is that you don't have a clear person to take over and even if it was the exact same situation where Scott got fired and Dan took over, who are the rovers in the organization right now, that would hypothetically take over.
49:59 --> 50:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I, I don't know if I want any of them managing either.
50:03 --> 50:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Isn't Goody a rover?
50:05 --> 50:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Goody.
50:10 --> 50:15 [SPEAKER_00]: sword, uh, I, he has some small role, but I have a Davis.
50:16 --> 50:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
50:16 --> 50:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and I don't think Alvin Davis would manage.
50:19 --> 50:22 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's such a nice guy, but I don't think you manage.
50:22 --> 50:25 [SPEAKER_01]: That's those those would be the options.
50:25 --> 50:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Unless they were to hire someone from outside the organization to be the into a manager or maybe they'd just make them the full-time manager like last time.
50:34 --> 50:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I, yeah, that's, that's the con for me right now is that I don't see a clear Succession plan if that was the idea That's right here.
50:43 --> 51:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me just speak for what I'm sure people in the comments are either saying or what people are thinking in their heads Which is Alex Corra look sun me up seven days of the week and twice on Sunday for Alex Corra But if he's not taken the Philly's job and he's already getting paid significant money right now to not be a manager
51:04 --> 51:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he is traveling all the way across the country mid-season to come manage the mariners.
51:09 --> 51:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I think if Corre wants the manage again, he is going to wait for the perfect situation and go do that when the time comes.
51:17 --> 51:21 [SPEAKER_01]: If you need the context, Elx Corre is making $7 million this year and next year.
51:21 --> 51:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, first contract with the RedSucks.
51:24 --> 51:26 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think Dan Wilson is making $7 million.
51:27 --> 51:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So why would he come out here to make less money?
51:31 --> 51:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Philly's also not that far from Boston.
51:34 --> 51:45 [SPEAKER_01]: It would be a pain, but not as much of a pain to go down their work for the rest of the season or into the future because I think the Philly's a higher offered him the full-time job to be the manager and he turned it down.
51:45 --> 51:52 [SPEAKER_01]: So if he's turning down that job with more flush ownership group, more star players, he's not coming out to Seattle.
51:53 --> 51:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's probably right.
51:56 --> 52:02 [SPEAKER_00]: So, and, like you said, I don't know, or we don't know what Dan Wilson salary is.
52:02 --> 52:09 [SPEAKER_00]: The Mariners don't make that public, but again, Divist has been on with us, and he says, the Mariners don't usually pay their coaches all that great.
52:09 --> 52:13 [SPEAKER_00]: It's usually more toward the bottom of the league than it is the top of the league.
52:13 --> 52:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I think it would be a tough sell to get core out here.
52:19 --> 52:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I would be all for it, but I don't think they do it.
52:22 --> 52:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Now the pros.
52:27 --> 52:28 [SPEAKER_00]: decision making improves.
52:28 --> 52:32 [SPEAKER_00]: That'd be first and foremost, hard to be worse.
52:33 --> 52:34 [SPEAKER_01]: That's definitely for sure.
52:35 --> 52:49 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the communication would be better this season at least because if there's one thing that's been pretty clear of the last couple of weeks doesn't seem like there's been great communication between team and player, especially the starting pitchers.
52:50 --> 52:51 [SPEAKER_00]: at all.
52:51 --> 53:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean there's Bryce Miller back on the first piggyback day where he said he didn't think he was coming out and he certainly didn't look happy about it and clearly there was some miscommunication there.
53:01 --> 53:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Then apparently from what Daniel Kramer wrote here on Sunday afternoon,
53:10 --> 53:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Brian Wu was talking about the fitting of his day and I'll just read the quote because what Wu said is, I didn't know they were going to parentheses intentionally walk past Quintino, but it is what it is.
53:22 --> 53:33 [SPEAKER_00]: It's on me for getting behind too low, go ahead and attack them and you don't have to, you know, if you go ahead and attack them, you don't have to walk them, it's my job to get selfie out and I didn't do that, so it's on me.
53:33 --> 53:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Wu takes accountability there,
53:36 --> 53:38 [SPEAKER_00]: the thing to highlight there is the first sentence of that.
53:39 --> 53:42 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know they were going to intentionally walk past Quentin out.
53:42 --> 53:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't that seem like something that should be communicated?
53:46 --> 53:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but the most concerning thing I see in that sentence is they, not we, they, not we, like, they, them, not me,
53:57 --> 54:02 [SPEAKER_01]: That like other people not us as a team the dugout.
54:02 --> 54:06 [SPEAKER_01]: We mean we means Brian will say I didn't know we as a group.
54:06 --> 54:07 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to do that.
54:07 --> 54:10 [SPEAKER_01]: He said no, I didn't know they the decision makers were going to do that.
54:12 --> 54:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's not great.
54:15 --> 54:16 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not great.
54:16 --> 54:17 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what it seems right now.
54:17 --> 54:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And then of course, there's the communication with the media, which continues to be atrocious.
54:22 --> 54:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Then after the game, as I said at the beginning of the podcast said, Oh, and that's baseball with how the Mariners played in Kansas City, which it's hard to write in an article.
54:33 --> 54:37 [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to use those words with much context on a podcast.
54:37 --> 54:38 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, that would definitely improve.
54:39 --> 54:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, dude, well first off, if you just want to talk about the pros too.
54:46 --> 55:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I know it's not a great defensively structured roster to begin with, but when you just see so many of the sloppy plays, both on the field and on the base pads, when you see that much of it, again, JP Crawford air mailing that or not air mailing, but throwing that throw wide by 20 feet.
55:07 --> 55:09 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not because he's a bad defender, that means there was just the
55:11 --> 55:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know how that happens, but again, like the sloppy defense, not the lack of range, but just the sloppy plays in the errors and the bad bass running decisions.
55:21 --> 55:22 [SPEAKER_00]: That is a coaching thing, man.
55:23 --> 55:28 [SPEAKER_00]: That is something that is usually on the coaching staff and cleaned up by the coaching.
55:28 --> 55:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Look, Scott Service wasn't a perfect manager, no manager is, but I don't remember many of his teams playing really sloppy baseball.
55:36 --> 55:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember much of that.
55:38 --> 55:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we're seeing out of this current team, the Dan's managing sloppy.
55:43 --> 55:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And we've used that word a lot here to start 26 with a team that had sky-high expectations.
55:49 --> 55:54 [SPEAKER_00]: So you would hope something like that would improve if you were going to go under a managerial change.
55:55 --> 55:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that fair to say?
55:57 --> 56:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'd say the last proof for me is that there is no bigger change you can make in season than firing your manager.
56:03 --> 56:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Literally nothing.
56:06 --> 56:07 [SPEAKER_00]: You want the ultimate shake up.
56:07 --> 56:08 [SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
56:08 --> 56:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
56:08 --> 56:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Like not guaranteed to do it, but has the potential to spark a fire fired GM in season does not do that because the GM is not interacting and coaching with the players.
56:17 --> 56:18 [SPEAKER_01]: That.
56:18 --> 56:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
56:18 --> 56:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Mariners fire Jerry depoto.
56:20 --> 56:22 [SPEAKER_01]: The current roster doesn't change that much.
56:23 --> 56:23 [SPEAKER_01]: No, in season.
56:24 --> 56:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Not really the structure of the organization changes.
56:26 --> 56:28 [SPEAKER_01]: The drafting changes.
56:28 --> 56:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of the trades might change who would they get the deadline, but the current group exactly the same.
56:33 --> 56:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
56:34 --> 56:40 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to use the different fillings, for example, when they brought in Rob Thompson, mid-season, that worked for him.
56:40 --> 56:44 [SPEAKER_00]: That did clearly ignite something because I went to the world series that year.
56:45 --> 56:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I will say now to get back to your final point about the communication with the media.
56:48 --> 56:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it is just brutal, man.
56:52 --> 56:52 [SPEAKER_00]: It really is.
56:53 --> 56:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And we've been seeing it since the day.
56:56 --> 56:56 [SPEAKER_00]: He got hired.
56:57 --> 56:58 [SPEAKER_00]: But
56:59 --> 57:01 [SPEAKER_00]: It continues to just elevate.
57:01 --> 57:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And then when you see really poor play, like we're seeing right now, and things continue to just get pushed under the rug, it's just a bad look.
57:11 --> 57:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know what, it's a big slap in the face to your fan base and your consumers, who are by definition, consuming the product on the daily and look for transparency and get none of it.
57:25 --> 57:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Like absolutely none, that is a slap in the face to them and it's a total slap in the face to the reporters who go through it day in and day out and Like work their tails off to cover the team as best as they possibly can and tell these stories of the best as they possibly can And when you have a manager who's essentially sitting in these media sessions every day being like, well
57:47 --> 57:50 [SPEAKER_00]: These are a waste of my time, and like these reporters don't matter.
57:51 --> 57:52 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what's getting displayed right now.
57:52 --> 57:54 [SPEAKER_00]: You can cook it up other ways if you want to try.
57:55 --> 57:58 [SPEAKER_00]: But when the answers are consistently like this,
57:59 --> 58:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it shows that you just don't take the words that you put out publicly to your media and more so to your fan base very seriously.
58:07 --> 58:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, if you had gotten diced up by Terri Scooble, you could say that's just baseball after a loss.
58:13 --> 58:17 [SPEAKER_00]: If your offense has a bad day, especially against a good pitcher, you can say that's just baseball, because that does happen.
58:18 --> 58:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Sloppy defense and
58:21 --> 58:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, sloppy bass running.
58:23 --> 58:27 [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't really today on Sunday, but it happens when you have sloppy play affecting your wins.
58:27 --> 58:29 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not just baseball.
58:29 --> 58:33 [SPEAKER_01]: That's on the same same story as being told over and over and over again.
58:33 --> 58:34 [SPEAKER_01]: That is what you are.
58:34 --> 58:37 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not it's not even that's just baseball.
58:37 --> 58:43 [SPEAKER_01]: It's that's your version of baseball and that version of baseball is mediocre at best is what that is.
58:43 --> 58:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
58:44 --> 59:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, to which comes which comes back to another point is okay, so what is the standard of baseball here like the standard should be higher You don't want that to be just baseball because if that's just baseball then you're gonna miss the playoffs and all that good will you built up with the fan base last year is gone in a poof
59:04 --> 59:06 [SPEAKER_00]: This is not just baseball.
59:06 --> 59:10 [SPEAKER_00]: This is you significantly underperforming expectations a third of the way through the season.
59:11 --> 59:15 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to throw any players under the bus when you talk to the media.
59:15 --> 59:18 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to spill any dirty laundry when you talk to the media.
59:19 --> 59:23 [SPEAKER_00]: You can keep all of that in-house and still give transparent answers.
59:23 --> 59:25 [SPEAKER_00]: When somebody asks you the manager,
59:26 --> 59:29 [SPEAKER_00]: What goes into a bullpen decision or a pinch hit decision?
59:30 --> 59:33 [SPEAKER_00]: You can elaborate on it because that is you making the decision.
59:33 --> 59:35 [SPEAKER_00]: The manager is, hey, here's what I'm thinking.
59:36 --> 59:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It may not always work, but this is the process I use.
59:39 --> 59:46 [SPEAKER_00]: We have literally heard Ryan Davis say, hey, Dan, can you walk us through these decisions so people have more of an understanding?
59:46 --> 59:48 [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't do it, ever.
59:48 --> 59:53 [SPEAKER_00]: As nothing to do with throwing players under the bus that has nothing to do with spilling dirty laundry, he just won't,
59:53 --> 59:54 [SPEAKER_00]: do it.
59:54 --> 59:58 [SPEAKER_00]: There are ways you can elaborate on that stuff without throwing players under the bus.
59:58 --> 01:00:04 [SPEAKER_00]: There are things you can say to describe the transparency of the team without throwing anybody under the bus.
01:00:04 --> 01:00:07 [SPEAKER_00]: You can say, yeah, we haven't been good enough against lefties.
01:00:07 --> 01:00:12 [SPEAKER_00]: We have to find x, y and z as focal points for how to turn this around.
01:00:12 --> 01:00:14 [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't done enough with runners in scoring position.
01:00:15 --> 01:00:20 [SPEAKER_00]: We have to find focal points, x, y, and z for how to alter this, so it doesn't linger around all year.
01:00:20 --> 01:00:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I know that hitting with runners and scoring position can be a little bit random.
01:00:24 --> 01:00:28 [SPEAKER_00]: But you know what, when you rank last in the league, it's not just randomness.
01:00:28 --> 01:00:29 [SPEAKER_00]: There's more to it than that.
01:00:30 --> 01:00:35 [SPEAKER_00]: You can be elaborative and you can be transparent without throwing people under the bus.
01:00:37 --> 01:00:38 [SPEAKER_00]: not saying that's just baseball.
01:00:39 --> 01:00:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just baseball.
01:00:41 --> 01:00:45 [SPEAKER_00]: You are not way under 500 at the end of May because it's just baseball.
01:00:45 --> 01:00:46 [SPEAKER_00]: You're under performing.
01:00:48 --> 01:00:59 [SPEAKER_01]: My biggest problem with the Mariners communication strategy, Dan Wilson and the entire organization is that it is giving off major 2023 vibes and that is not the route you want to go down.
01:01:00 --> 01:01:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Case everyone forgets how 2023 was, kind of a similar situation, Mariners make some history of the season prior, everyone is incredibly excited and ready to go for the season and all of a sudden out of the gates.
01:01:12 --> 01:01:39 [SPEAKER_01]: the team is underperforming they have some injuries they're trying to scramble to be competitive and win and what that year was a down division and this year is also a down division and what when can push came to shove at the end of the season the team couldn't get through back in that twenty twenty three season and then reporters asked team leadership after the year is over hey was what did you guys think of the season and the team tells you yeah that was pretty good that was a successful season
01:01:40 --> 01:01:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the, the, the same message we're getting right now for, for this season is like yeah, let's just baseball.
01:01:46 --> 01:01:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's how it's going.
01:01:47 --> 01:01:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's, let's be very clear about that messaging.
01:01:50 --> 01:01:51 [SPEAKER_00]: One person said that.
01:01:51 --> 01:01:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I did a photo.
01:01:53 --> 01:01:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because Justin Hollner wasn't the one that said that.
01:01:56 --> 01:01:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Scott Service was not the one that said that wasn't other people in the front office saying that.
01:01:59 --> 01:02:03 [SPEAKER_00]: That was Jerry depoto who said this season was a success.
01:02:03 --> 01:02:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:02:04 --> 01:02:04 [SPEAKER_00]: You missed the playoffs.
01:02:05 --> 01:02:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Or, like, anybody use the word step forward.
01:02:08 --> 01:02:08 [SPEAKER_00]: No, you missed the playoffs.
01:02:09 --> 01:02:17 [SPEAKER_01]: But it seems to me right now, based on everything we can observe, is that the two people with the most power and a baseball perspective in the organization are Dan Wilson and Jerry DePoto.
01:02:18 --> 01:02:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And right now, as far as we can tell, the message from them is that things are fine, which is, again, to me,
01:02:33 --> 01:02:41 [SPEAKER_01]: In 2023, there were unable to be addressed, and then at the end of the season, you told everything, everyone, everything is fine, and people were furious.
01:02:42 --> 01:02:43 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't want the same thing to happen again.
01:02:44 --> 01:02:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Learn from your mistakes and don't let, and don't just try and brush over problems by telling the fanbase that things are okay when this organization for now 50 seasons has done anything but just be okay.
01:02:59 --> 01:03:17 [SPEAKER_00]: look, if you guys want some proof that this is not just us feeling this way, that this is not just the Seattle thing, this is not just a Marine Leir pod thing with TGNI, it's not just a fanbase thing on Twitter, I'll give you an example, I'm not going to throw anybody under the bus, but TGNI this year have talked to multiple people, who?
01:03:18 --> 01:03:43 [SPEAKER_00]: see the game nationally they go around the country they get to talk to a bunch of different people they have a ton of different conversations and they they get to consume the game from a very bird's eye view they get to see all the teams we have heard from multiple national people that have said and I quote Dan Wilson is far and away the worst manager in major league baseball to work with to communicate with to have discussions with they said there is 29 other
01:03:47 --> 01:03:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Because as the story goes, they were curious about a certain mechanical change that a player on the Mariners roster had made, and they were curious to ask about it.
01:03:56 --> 01:04:01 [SPEAKER_00]: The answer they got was, I don't know, they didn't get any answer about it.
01:04:01 --> 01:04:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, what we got told is there's 29 managers in the game, and then there's Dan Wilson.
01:04:06 --> 01:04:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you guys think this is just us or just a Seattle thing or people on Twitter thing,
01:04:17 --> 01:04:19 [SPEAKER_00]: It's certainly people that we trust the opinion of.
01:04:19 --> 01:04:23 [SPEAKER_00]: To then here, oh, you're not getting any answers at all.
01:04:24 --> 01:04:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's not good communication.
01:04:27 --> 01:04:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Other managers across the game can tell the story of their team and be transparent without airing out all their dirty laundry.
01:04:35 --> 01:04:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Dan Wilson, you don't get anything.
01:04:36 --> 01:04:37 [UNKNOWN]: No.
01:04:37 --> 01:04:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we've talked to enough people to know this is the story with pretty much everybody that tries to get information out of Dan Wilson.
01:04:45 --> 01:04:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Can't do it.
01:04:46 --> 01:04:48 [SPEAKER_01]: And it just, it makes everyone's jobs really hard.
01:04:49 --> 01:05:00 [SPEAKER_01]: And for the fans, when you try and ask the person who leads all the players, why the team's not playing well, you get kind of a non-chalant, non-answer that just pisses people off.
01:05:00 --> 01:05:03 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't really think does the Mariners any favors, like as an organization.
01:05:04 --> 01:05:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Any favors when the guy the the one person in the organization who has to talk to the media twice a day every single day That's Dan Wilson no matter what the manager talks to the media more than anyone else and Dan says nothing Ever now ever so I'll use this example because I tweeted it out
01:05:25 --> 01:05:33 [SPEAKER_00]: For those who follow baseball across the league, like we do, I think you know it has not been smooth sailing to start the career of Tony Vitello as a big league manager.
01:05:34 --> 01:05:35 [SPEAKER_00]: He's had plenty of his own issues.
01:05:36 --> 01:05:38 [SPEAKER_00]: especially when it comes to some of the decision-making.
01:05:39 --> 01:05:41 [SPEAKER_00]: But I will give Tony Vitello this credit.
01:05:42 --> 01:05:43 [SPEAKER_00]: He is very transparent.
01:05:44 --> 01:05:51 [SPEAKER_00]: He will give answers in the media that really, really do the best to tell the story of the San Francisco Giants.
01:05:51 --> 01:05:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And I will tell you what, I don't have a crystal ball.
01:05:54 --> 01:05:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I cannot promise Tony Vitello's going to work out as a big league manager.
01:05:57 --> 01:06:02 [SPEAKER_00]: But at the very least, what being transparent with people does is buys you goodwill.
01:06:03 --> 01:06:12 [SPEAKER_00]: At the very least, that media group and that fan base in San Francisco can say, even if we're pissed off about a lot of things happening, Tony tells us what's happening.
01:06:12 --> 01:06:15 [SPEAKER_00]: He tries to paint the picture as much as he can.
01:06:15 --> 01:06:24 [SPEAKER_00]: He likes to give us the ins and outs to the best of his ability without any dirty laundry, about what goes on with the day to day of the San Francisco giant.
01:06:24 --> 01:06:26 [SPEAKER_00]: So why certain moves are made, and why decisions happen?
01:06:27 --> 01:06:28 [SPEAKER_00]: you don't get any of that with Dan Wilson.
01:06:28 --> 01:06:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So currently the team's not playing well, they're baffling decisions happening all the time, and then there's zero explanation for why they happen.
01:06:37 --> 01:06:38 [SPEAKER_00]: That is a combination that's a real problem.
01:06:40 --> 01:06:45 [SPEAKER_01]: That leaves us at the end of this podcast with a list of potential things for the Mariners to do.
01:06:46 --> 01:06:52 [SPEAKER_01]: And now that we're past Memorial Day, they have two off days as we laid out in our mail bag episode, we're guarding a ref's nighter question.
01:06:54 --> 01:06:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Each of the next two weeks on Thursday and off days or days things tend to happen.
01:07:00 --> 01:07:12 [SPEAKER_01]: These, this is a list of things I would imagine that we talked about here today that one of them could happen in the next two weeks I don't know what it will be But the Mariners can't just keep running it back and just saying yep, this is fine.
01:07:12 --> 01:07:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Like because it's not so we'll see Great well
01:07:19 --> 01:07:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Not the most upbeat episode in the world, but probably a necessary episode, because at some point we're gonna see some changes one way or another, and we might as well start highlighting what they have the potential to be, because there was no reason to sit around and talk about all the same things that happened in the series that have gone on and a bunch of other series this year.
01:07:35 --> 01:07:35 [SPEAKER_00]: That's no fun.
01:07:36 --> 01:07:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.
01:07:37 --> 01:07:40 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, that's just about wraps up this edition of the Marine Lair podcast.
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01:08:08 --> 01:08:12 [SPEAKER_00]: That's TJ, I'm Lyle, as always we thank you guys for tuning in to talk to you soon.