Episode 41: Matt Calkins (Seattle Times), Julio's Clutch Problem, And Will The Mariners Trade Paul Sewald?

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number forty one of the Marine Layer Podcast with TJ. Matthewson and Lyyle Goldstein. On today's pod, we welcome Matt Culkins, a sports columnist at the Seattle Times. Great conversation with Matt. You're not going to want to miss that. We also have our Mariners storylines. I promise there's going to be a lot of talk about clutch play in this episode. Lots of talk about it, so be prepared. 00:00:24 Speaker 2: Another way you can get prepared. If you want to listen to us on a regular basis, you can download our audio podcast. You can do so on Apple, Spotify, Google and Amazon. If you do that, make sure to subscribe. Make sure to hit download. Give us a five star review. It helps us big time. And if you're listening on our audio platforms, do us a big favor. Go watch our video stuff too. It's over on YouTube. You can hit subscribe there, leave a like, leave a comment. Again, make sure to subscribe. We do a buch of stuff on the video side too. And as always, you want to follow us on social media, you can do so on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube. Shorts Marine Layer Pod. 00:01:02 Speaker 1: Let's get it rolling and We welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer podcast, recording here on Monday, July twenty fourth. This podcast part of the Just Baseball podcast network, and Lyle, I thought we would start this episode by playing a game. I thought we would start by picking out what's your favorite Mariners record this season? We have plenty of options we can go as of tonight, fifty and fifty after one hundred games. Plenty of other options too. I mean, we have forty five and forty five, forty two and forty two, thirty four and thirty four, twenty one and twenty one and so on. So I thought I'd give the floor to you and let you make a case of which Mariners record is your favorite. 00:01:59 Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with one in one because at that point in the season I was still optimistic as can be. I remember we were at the first weekend of games, and we were heads above the clouds. We couldn't wait for the season. And now we sit at the end of July and I am exhausted. I am absolutely drained of this entire season. We're gonna see how much more I can take now. I say that as if I'm not still gonna watch every game and do this podcast all the time, but this season has been exhausting. 00:02:32 Speaker 1: Do I need to say the line again when I after we watched another unclutch performance in a big game that they needed in the wild card race against the Twins here in Game one on a Monday, Do I need to say the line again when I'm shocked that they lost again? 00:02:51 Speaker 2: You can go ahead and say it. 00:02:54 Speaker 1: This is what five hundred teams do. It's truly remarkable. It is truly remarkable. Larry Stone tweeted out the line by line of the Mariners times this season they've been at five hundred. That's the list I was picking from. I actually haven't counted how many times they've exactly been at five hundred this season. So let's see one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty, twenty one, twenty two separate times this season the Mariners have been at five hundred exactly. 00:03:33 Speaker 2: And you wonder why we're drained when at the start of the season we thought there was a chance they were the second best team in the American League behind the Astros, who they barely lost to a postseason ago. Yeah, they got swept, but all three of those games, everybody knows we're neck and neck. 00:03:49 Speaker 1: They have not won more than four games in a row. They have not lost more than four games in a row. They win the first two games against the Blue Jays and were like, wow, man, that's probably that's promising. 00:04:02 Speaker 3: How about that? 00:04:03 Speaker 1: And then two scenarios present themselves on Sunday and Monday that give the Mariners an opportunity to win baseball games, and they not shockingly don't, unsurprisingly, really unsurprisingly don't. I'm here's the only time I'm gonna mention bunting here in this opening segment. I think this The Sunday game proved law and I's point pretty well, did it not? 00:04:30 Speaker 2: It did? JP. Crawford's not only arguably been your best hitter this year, He's been one of your most clutch hitters. You've got runners on first and second with nobody out, you are down a run, you desperately need a run, and you're giving the Blue Jayson out. You're just handing it to him. You're handing them a free out and making making the distance shorter to have to win the ballgame. Instead of actually having a pitch to one of the Mariners' best hitters to let him swing away. Maybe he shoots one in the gap and two run score, but no, they sacrifice bunned pay on the bunt. This is why we sit on this podcast and talk about not bunning, because situations like that destroy rallies. 00:05:12 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about it a little bit later on in this episode. Maybe if you would check some clutch numbers this season on why that's a bad idea of letting JP Crawford bun in a clutch situation. But I'm sitting there and it it's I'm just at a loss for words at this point. It just you shake your head because you almost feel like you know exactly what is going to happen as soon as you hear that a bunt is being called. We're not going to talk about this specifically on this episode. It might be a subject for a later episode as we get later into the season and we start talking about off season, because certainly, if the Mariners finish where they are, this discussion will be had in some And it's the decision making of Scott Service, who, while paired with Jerry Depoto in this front office, I would say have been more forward thinking. And there are times they just don't bunt at all. They don't really believe that much in sacrifice funning. And then yet in some of the biggest scenarios of the season, like on Sunday, like where was the decision switch? Where was the change of philosophy? Let's get to our Mariners storylines, because this will directly tie in to what Scott was trying to do and which man he was trying to send to the plate in a clutch scenario. Julio has a clutch problem this season. 00:06:47 Speaker 2: He has a major clutch problem. Look like, I hate that we're about to have to do this. I really hate that we're gonna sit here and dissect this because I love Julio. You love Julio. The fan base loves Julio. Baseball loves Julio because I'm not sure there's a single better ambassador for a singular team than Julio Rodriguez. Between his personality, his charisma, the smile, how he is with fans, with media, his genuine love for the city, everything, and you know how talented he is. But objectively speaking, as we sit here at the end of July. His disastrous at bats in late game situations are losing this team games. 00:07:29 Speaker 1: It's pretty plain and simple. If you look at fangrafts, he is, as you would expect, the least clutch player on the team. Taosker's right next to him at number nineteen, which also hasn't been a big help. But let's just keep it to Julio here at the beginning. I do have some team centered stats as well later on in this segment, but for now, let's stick with Julio. This is kind of puzzling because he was pretty clutch last season. He did not let the moment get to him at all last season. There's a significant difference in his output between the twenty twenty three season and the twenty twenty two season in multiple late game scenarios. In high leverage scenario, which is based on win probability, Julio had an OPS of a little bit over seven fifty, but it was abovely gaverage one twelve ops plus last year in those leverage situations. It has been a six hundred ops this season, hitting one seventy seven with just one home run in high leverage spots. Layton close as well, which is very important. Last year. He was even better in Layton close scenarios in ops nearly nine of nearly nine hundred on this season is a strikeout rate of thirty percent in Laton close scenarios. Do I need to keep going? Like I'm tired of reciting these numbers? 00:08:48 Speaker 3: Man? 00:08:49 Speaker 1: It seems like every time we're sitting here in a close game, the same discussion is going on online, the same one. And I'm tired of having this discussion. But it just out that you're right, he's he's losing them games and the numbers back it up. So you just covered the ninth inning and you covered just clutch situations. Is that what you just outlined? 00:09:11 Speaker 4: Right? 00:09:11 Speaker 1: I did not actually get to the ninth Do you want to hear his ninth inning stats? 00:09:15 Speaker 2: I was going to say in the ninth in the ninth inning one four six forty one ops. In extra innings, won sixty seven with a six to eleven ops. 00:09:27 Speaker 1: Yeah, his opia? You said six eleven? Uh oh wait, No, I didn't have extras. I combined the two. That's why. Okay, I remember his extras being being pretty bad. Yeah, but he was on. If you you were curious about last year, he had nearly four hundred in the ninth inning and extras. 00:09:46 Speaker 2: It's a big difference. I mean, he's still on pace to have about a four war season, if not higher, especially when you look at fangrafts. So if this is the worst season of his career, I've we can't wait to see what he does over his next fifteen to twenty seasons. But here in twenty twenty three, it's been a big problem because we've talked about it a million times. They're relying on him to be Julio because they if they want to be the team that they are trying to be and expect themselves to be, he's not doing it. I mean, the season as a whole at the plate has not been great, hasn't been atrocious by league average standards, but it hasn't been great. But when you get to those clutch situations, that's where it's really killing him. I mean, even if you want to get past the numbers, if you just want to watch it on TV, We've seen it happen multiple times. We saw it this weekend against the Blue Jays, we saw it again on Monday against the Twins. It's just happened over and over this season. 00:10:44 Speaker 1: It happened again in the tenth inning against the Twins on Monday night. Ball doesn't even live the infield. Another ball pounded straight into the ground in a clutch scenario. 00:10:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I was getting at by this most recent Twins game here on Monday, had a bat next innings ground ball to third base. 00:11:02 Speaker 1: Just it's like he's done all season long. 00:11:05 Speaker 2: It's just disheartening to watch. He's just gotta lift the ball. When you look at his Baseball Savant profile, it's pretty good, which is why a lot of the time it just feels like one little adjustment could turn his whole season around. But he is still just beating baseballs into the ground. 00:11:23 Speaker 1: If we split it up by three inning chunks, this is not gonna get any better. If you look at the first three innings of the game, he's slightly above average as a hitter. Middle three innings he's three percentage points below league average via ops plus, and then seventy seven ols plus in the final three innings of the game. Up those last stats I have for Julio, I just don't feel like it's just gonna make me angry to recite more of these numbers of how unclutch he's been this season and if you missed it again, eighteenth worst, eighteenth, how would you frame this eighteenth least clutch hitter in baseball? Yeah, yes, so that's where he sits. 00:12:05 Speaker 2: And it just makes it all worse that they should have won the last two games between Sunday against the Blue Jays, where again he had the chance against Jordan Romano at second and third with one out, they just need a fly ball, and he chased a couple of pretty bad pitches, including the final one from Romano to strike out. And then again Monday against the Twins after Colton Wong, by the way, has his shining moment of the season, it feels like that is it felt like that what we just watched today again we're recording here on Monday, it felt like that could have been the type of thing that starts to turn everything. Even though they lost a heartbreaker on Sunday, it felt like, could this be the spark? Could this be the game that turns them around down to their final out, but no, because they lost the game or they the Twins retied the game at the bottom of the ninth and then when they needed to score again in the tenth they didn't, and again Julio just grounded out to third with a runner on second base. So it's just it's so tough. You know what, Okay, you know what? We got to touch on too. What did you just tweet out a few minutes ago before we started recording. 00:13:07 Speaker 1: I was gonna get to this. I had this saved in my notes. You would have probably seen this if you have paid attention to our Twitter account by the time this release is on Wednesday, Lyle Goldstein, the most clutch player in baseball this season is. 00:13:21 Speaker 2: Adam Fraser. 00:13:24 Speaker 1: Yeah. I got a good chuckle when I saw that. It was It just felt very on brand. For all the Mariners problems this season, a second baseman who people didn't think would miss at all happens to have been the most clutch player in baseball on the most clutched team in baseball, and the Baltimore Orioles, who currently possess the best record in the American League. 00:13:52 Speaker 2: Let's be clear here, Adam Fraser objectively has not had a good season. His war is low, his WRC plus is below league average. He has not been some catalyst for the Orioles, but he has been clutch similar to how he has one of the most clutch moments in Mariner's history and. 00:14:09 Speaker 1: Isay told lyle at this rate, I don't care what his war is. I don't care what it's w orc plus is on the season. I just want to fucking hit in the ninth inning. Is that too much to ask for? 00:14:21 Speaker 2: It feels like it these days. Man, Well, I'll tell you what. If they don't start to turn things around quickly. The trade deadline is a week away from when we're sitting here recording. By the time this is out, it'll be five days away. They have some decisions to make. 00:14:42 Speaker 4: This fall. Stream your favorites and discover more with Disney Plus, Hulu and ESPN Plus together. Watch the highly anticipated new season of Loki and see the ghost materialize in Haunted Mansion on Disney Plus. Catch more frights with The Boogeyman, an American horror story. Deli Kit on Hulu and on ESPN Plus. Get into the action with college football and NFL. All of these and more streaming now. Get the Disney Bundle with plans starting at nine ninety nine a month, plans with ESPN Plus starting at fourteen ninety nine a month. Terms apply see Disney Bundle dot com for details. 00:15:22 Speaker 2: As we get into our second storyline here, a big topic over the last few weeks has been Paul sawalld What are they gonna do with them? Do they keep them? Do they flip them? Are they really going to trade them? So we thought we'd dive into this a little bit here on the show, which is does he actually get traded? 00:15:41 Speaker 1: Does he? 00:15:44 Speaker 3: Yes? 00:15:45 Speaker 1: He does? Do I want him to get traded? No? 00:15:49 Speaker 3: I don't. 00:15:49 Speaker 1: Actually, I actually don't think that's a good idea for the Mariners to trade him. To be honest, I've flipped one eight in the past two days. I two days ago, if you asked me, I would have said, yeah, you know, cut your losses, you gotta trade Paul Seawald. And then I was started looking at some returns that teams got from a relief for good, like equal caliber relievers of the deadline last year, and I flipped the switch pretty quick, because if you're planning on contending next year, I would rather have Paul Seawald on the team and not mediocre prospects instead. 00:16:25 Speaker 2: So we're different in this regard, just in the sense of I don't think they actually do it. Personally, I don't think they trade them. I think it's all a bit of buzz and hullabaloo. I don't think in the end he's gonna get traded. But we are on the same page in the sense of I don't think it's smart business. I don't think it's a smart business decision to ship them away because it's just like you outlined, what are you getting back for them. Let's say the Dodgers need a reliever, right, that's a team that needs some bullpen help that's trying to contend. Who do you think you're getting back. They're not trading James Outman for Paul Sewald. They're not trading one of their young peace. You're gonna get some minor league prospect or maybe low end bench badly, even as good as Paul Seewald's been for three years now, and we can get into that in a minute, you're not getting some haul of a return for him. So if that's the case, because he has a year and a half left of club control, just keep him. He is such a vital piece of this bullpen. And next year you expect to contend again. You expected to contend this year. It's been a struggle. You're expecting to contend though next year with this young core. Well, Paul sewald has been a pretty valuable piece of that bullpen. I would rather just keep him around, especially considering they will probably not get a haul back for him. 00:17:41 Speaker 1: The most similar trade to what a Paul Seawalled trade would look like is the trade last year that the Orioles they sent Jorge Lopez to the Twins. Lopez had two and a half years of control left on his deal at the deadline. Last year, they got Kate Povich, who's now currently the Orioles Number eleven prospect Janier Cano, who I don't think the Orioles envisioned would be an all star bullpen arm when they traded for him, So I don't know if we really count that, and then two prospects that are outside of the Orioles top thirty. That's not exactly a return that I'm jumping up and down for. That's a return where I'd say, you know what, I think, if we're the Mariners truly believe they can contend next season, I'd rather have Paul Seawold on the roster. I don't think the package gets that much worse for trading him this year or trading him next year. If you end up underperforming again next year and you feel like you have to deal them, Okay, so what but the return similar enough, I'd rather just keep them. 00:18:42 Speaker 2: Let's be clear. They got very lucky with janiar Cano like slid down at the end of the rainbow into a pot of gold and found you in your cano. Because here's what he'd done. Before he got traded to Baltimore. At twenty eight years old, he had made twenty three big league appearances. He had an ERA of eleven fifty in twenty twenty two. Or I'm sorry, let me let me rephrase that, he had made thirteen Sorry, he made thirteen appearances. Yeah, we're going all over the place. He had thirteen total appearances last year in twenty twenty two, Ten of them were with the Twins. Three of them were with the Orioles. So he had made ten big league appearances before he got traded, and in that time with the Twins he had a nine to twenty two ERA, and in three outings last year with the Orioles in twenty twenty two, he gave up nine earned runs. Oh, by the way, he's twenty nine years old. The Orioles did not trade for that guy thinking that's gonna be one of the best relievers in all of baseball. So if that's how you're justifying your argument for the Mariner should trade Paul Sewald, I can't buy it because the Orioles got incredibly lucky with that and I'm not a big fan of the rest of that return package, so I would rather just keep sea Wald. 00:19:54 Speaker 1: And this is besides the fact Seawald is having his best season as a pro this season. We said the same Low and I talked about this. I think we said the same thing last year after his initial season with the Mariners, like, oh, his twenty twenty two season is his best with the ball club. No, this twenty twenty three season is pretty clearly, pretty clear the best season that Paul Sewald has had as a pro this year. And I don't know about you, but I would kind of like to see this continue going instead of trading him away. 00:20:22 Speaker 2: Can we just break down a little bit what Paul Seawald's three seasons have looked like. He does not get the credit he deserves. He to me, I'm just gonna use a football reference here, but still tying into the city of Seattle. He almost feels like the Tyler Lockett Is team in some ways, in the sense of Tyler Lockett never ever ever gets the national respect that he deserves. I think it's the same with Seawall, because find me a reliever over the last three years that has been as dominant and as consistent as he's been for the last three years. Here's what it's looked like from twenty twenty one to twenty twenty three, respectively, ER by year has gone three to zero, six two sixty seven, and here, entering Monday in twenty twenty three, two eighty eight now the fifth from year to year. It's god or not the fifth his whip from year to year one O two oh seven, six oh ninety eight, XCRA two eighty five, two sixty four, one seventy three. Again over the three years, ER plus one thirty five, one forty one, forty three. If you don't remember, EER plus is almost the pitching version of OPS plus or WRC plus, where again hundreds league average. Whatever above or below that you are is the percentile better than or worse than league average you are, so thirty five percent above lye average forty percent abovely average, forty three percent above league average, and oh, by the way, his peripherals, when you look at Baseball Savant are just off the chart every year. How many other relievers can you even say that about? 00:21:51 Speaker 1: How many other relievers throw ninety two and strike out thirty eight percent of the batters they face? Anybody? Bueler, No, I don't see. 00:22:02 Speaker 2: Any You're not gonna find it, and it just does not get talked about. Over a three year stretch, Paul Seawald is on a very very short list for best relievers in all of baseball. Because relievers don't do this, They don't do what they've done over a three year stretch. We just talked about Yanior Cano, All Star this year, one of the best relievers in the game this season. He has done nothing in his career before this year. Look at Jorge Lopez, one of the best relievers in all of baseball last year. He's been pretty up and down this year. Relievers are very fickle, but Paul Seawald in a three year stretch has been a model of consistency that you do not often see out of bullpen arms. 00:22:42 Speaker 1: If we want to give one more example, this isn't perfect because he's already under an extension when he was traded. But Iglesias was traded from the Rassal of Glycius was traded from the Angels to the Braves last year. He was on the first year of a four year deal, and all the Angels got back for him was Jesse Chavez and Tucker Daydavidson, who Tucker Davidson, by the way, has a six to one five r and one hundred and five major league innings. And Jesse Chavez went back to the Braves said, like, how did that work out for you? Not good at all. 00:23:14 Speaker 2: I don't know if we have to be nice to Tucker Davidson or not, because he does a podcast at Just Baseball, So I don't know if we technically have to be nice to our co worker. 00:23:23 Speaker 1: Oh that's true, that is true. But no, let's move the decimal point. We can move the decimal point. 00:23:29 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, But you are speaking objective fats facts. Those are his stats. Yeah. So I don't like the idea of the Mariner's giving Sea all the way because it just does not feel like it's going to move the needle to get a hitter back that they could desperately use. 00:23:44 Speaker 1: That's true, that is true. And I looked at a couple other of these trades too. I mean, Michael Fulmer was a rental when he was traded from the Tigers to the Twins last year, and the Brewers got Matt Bush with three years of control. But he's thirty six and doesn't have the doesn't have the reputation that Paul Seawald does. And when the Rangers, I guess got back now they're current number twenty three prospect for him. Again, I'm just kind of grasping at at sand here. There's I'm I thought I was gonna I thought by looking at this, I was going to convince myself that the Mariners are going to do the right thing by trading Paul Seawold. But now I'm convinced. I'm going to be really pissed off. At this time next week when he's traded. 00:24:27 Speaker 2: I'm still going to say he's not traded, So somebody is going to be right. A week from now, when we do our next Wednesday show. 00:24:34 Speaker 1: I am really looking forward to this interview with Matt Holkins. We have not recorded it yet, but I've I got to meet Matt the one time. I was in the press box this year for for a Mariners game, and Lyle's gotten to meet him a couple of times. Very relatable guy here him and I already have a bet. I met him once and I already have a bet with him. Uh So, I mean that's just how relatable it was. He's funny and it was It's really great to meet the face behind the Seattle Times paper, which I normally don't get to do, but it was really refreshing and I'm glad I did with Matt. And I'm really looking forward to this interview. Again, we haven't recorded yet, but I'm excited. 00:25:14 Speaker 2: He's awesome, he has some really he's outgoing. I mean he's outgoing when he's at the games. I am sure he's gonna be outgoing in this interview. He's a bunch of fun. He's got some takes that we're going to dive into. And he also very time fitting just wrote an article about Julio Rodriguez and his lack of clutch this season, so we're gonna dive into that as well. But Matt awesome guy. It's been awesome getting to know him. We're excited to have him. 00:25:36 Speaker 1: On shout out former resident of ballad Matt Culkins. All right, let's get to our interview with him. 00:25:44 Speaker 2: All right, we've got Matt Caulkins on with US sports columnists for the Seattle Times. And from what we've picked up sitting with you in the press box, Matt not a believer in Oregon State football. 00:25:54 Speaker 3: Not a believer DJ. I think I just want the easiest five bucks. It was five bucks, right, we can up. 00:26:00 Speaker 1: I think it was five dollars. I did make it a point. Even if you were gonna forget meeting me in that press box, I was still gonna email you at the end of once November rolled around it, you know, I assume they get win ten sometime in November. I just bookmarked that. And then right in the middle of a Seahawks week, bam, you get a you get a Hey. You know my Venmo is just TJ. Dash Matthews And for all all contributors who want to that's fun, who want to help furnish myself? 00:26:26 Speaker 3: Well, a quick story on that. Like two years ago, I was like at some bar and uh there was a guy that tended bar in Kirkland. But I was at like another place called the Line in Kirkland. You probably know the line. Yeah yeah, wow, and uh he you know, I knew him a little bit, and he was like, Hey, if the Mariners ever make the playoffs, if the Manyers make the playoffs this year, I want your I want my name in the column in the in the column saying that I called it. And I was like, well, they're never gonna do it, so uh yeah, fine, I'll agree to that. And I hadn't. I didn't hear from him for like nine months. This was like in February or January. And then as soon as Kyli really cal rally hit that home run, he texted me instantly within a minute. So I think TJ might do the same thing if Oregon State wins that tenth game. But uh yeah, ten wins for the Beavers in that conference with Nix and uh everyone, Nick's coming back for Oregon, you know, Penni's coming back for Washington, Kill Williams coming back for USC. I'm just not seeing it, man. 00:27:33 Speaker 1: So it actually works out really well because I'm gonna be on radio and Portland later today talking about the Beavers, and I was just refreshing myself on the schedule. So not only the Beavers have are gonna have a very good chance to get ten wins in October. But they could get their tenth win over the Huskies here and then you get to write about it. 00:27:52 Speaker 3: I wouldn't know. 00:27:54 Speaker 1: Art does TJ get his name dropped in the column? 00:27:58 Speaker 3: M I don't know, man, I've made that that before. I don't think I'm gonna do it again, just just because for lack of originality or not regionality, but repetition, lack of a novelty. I I am I willing to say that I lost five five bucks on on this prediction that that could happen, that could happen. 00:28:18 Speaker 1: And hey, I'm I'm ready to I'm ready to lose five dollars too. So yeah, that's the fun of the game here. 00:28:24 Speaker 3: I need to spend that five dollars on something something appropriate, so we'll see. 00:28:28 Speaker 1: I love how we you know, just open this by just very much towing the line of journalistic integrity. It's really it's really phenomenal. And I think I don't think there's a better lesson we've been taught than than than learning how how loosely these things get applied. As we are we get a little older in this business. What I think is like, hey, why not have a little bit of fun with this. 00:28:47 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think we're compromising anything bye by making that bet. Hopefully not. Hopefully this isn't the last interview I ever do. But no, I'm not gonna do anybody differently. I just I don't think the Beeves have it in them. I haven't seen it before, so they would have to really surprise me. And I'm thinking TJ might have a little hometown bias. I think he might be drinking that Beaver that corballis kool aid, So we'll see. Agreeing with me. 00:29:14 Speaker 2: On that, I kind of do agree with you just because look, I'm a little bit of the third party here. But from what I remember from DJ Youngla's final year at Clemson, it was not pretty. So to turn around and win ten games in Oregon State, I don't know. 00:29:29 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, the Beavers when they had were running a backup quarterback seven of eight games, won seven of eight games last year with zero downfield passing game. And the roster this year is it's a little bit better than it was last year. So just just a couple of things to think about. I'm looking forward to training camp though start next week. For them, it's it's gonna be very very entertaining, win or loose. That's that's that's I say the least. My favorite part of the season. Man, I do a call in show, so I get the best of both the worlds. I essentially get your comment section on a column, except they call in talk to me after a game. Isn't that fun? Isn't that what you'd rather have? 00:30:04 Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting. I remember when I was at San Diego. That's where I was. I was at San Diego Union Tribune before I got to UH Seattle, and my first column, I don't know if I would have written this again today. This is when I was thirty years old and North Turner was the coach there and he hadn't been doing anything. And my first column for the UT was that Chargers fans should hope that the team loses so they get rid of North Turner, because they're never going to improve until until they get rid of that guy. And I got all kinds of comments and all kinds of emails and one and I was actually at my desk, and you know, a person who had a strong disagreement with my premise called me and I answered, and I was like, hey, this is Matt, and she was like, oh, I didn't actually expect anyone to answer this, just the comment. I just thought it was kind of weak sauce, and I'm like, oh, I understand that. And at the very end of it, you know, she was very cool. It's interesting sometimes if you meet these people in real life, like they might have one opinion one way, but like, you know, they talk to you for two minutes and it's totally different. 00:31:15 Speaker 2: Oh. Do you think half a Mariner's Twitter would actually say this stuff in person that you see online? No chance, Hey, there's. 00:31:22 Speaker 3: No chance they would say it. Be they represent a much smaller percentage of the population than I think a lot of us realize. 00:31:32 Speaker 2: Speaking of the Mariners, Matt, and also speaking of columns, actually I'm going to hold off on that because I got one follow up with this whole North Turner story. Did nor have ever say anything to you about it? 00:31:42 Speaker 3: He never said anything, So I don't know if you guys know who TJ. Simers is. TJ. Simers was a columnist at the La Times. He's very provocative. This is probably in the late nineties, early two thousands, and his whole thing. I mean, it was like, uh, what do you call it performance art? When he was doing these press conferences or talking to people, because he would takeover and he was hilarious and you'd ask these funny pointed questions and if the subject, whether it was Phil Jackson or Kobe or you know, Joe Tory at the time, I think was managing the Dodgers or various players if they knew him and they played the game, they knew how to handle them. But some people did it, and some people would get really Like Kevin Brown is a famous story who just got really rattled by TJ, and DJ wrote a column just ripping him but his thing. And he told me this even before I got to standing. He was like, always show up the next day. If you're gonna rip somebody, they're extenuating circumstances sometimes that you can't. So the very next day after I wrote that North Turn column, he didn't know who I was. I waited for everyone to clear and I just said, hey, nor if my name is Matt. I wrote a column. You know, I don't know if you read it or not, but I just wanted to say I'm here if you had anything to say, and he was like, you know, I don't really read columns or care about them too much. And that was that. So never heard from him again. I don't know that I would have written that today because he's got family and all this stuff, and I don't like to go out go for people's jobs necessarily. But I was thirty, and we do things when we're younger that we might not do when we're older. And uh, you know, it was what it was, and he was cool about it. But he actually didn't last or he got fired at the end of the year. I think he got fired during the year. 00:33:27 Speaker 1: Actually, so and so, Matt, what's the other side of that, what's the reaction on the other side of that that you've gotten? 00:33:35 Speaker 3: Carlos Quinton? Carlos Quinton, do you he was he was playing for the Padres. It's kind of a jerk, and he was really struggling. He was their highest paid player. He was only making like nine million dollars a year, but he was still their highest plaid player. This is like in twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, but not getting the job done, totally underperforming, much more so than Julio is underperforming right now, and Carlos probably had a of zero point five or something at this time, and I basically kept trying to get him, kept trying to get him, and he kept blowing me off. He kept blowing me off, and I kind of tie that into like he just wouldn't talk to me, and I kind of tied that in. I'm like, you know, I've been waiting for Carlos this whole time, but I think all of San Diego has been too, like he's not showing up, and kind of went through all his stats and he I showed up the next day of the locker room. He came right up to me and he started yelling at me and all this stuff, and I was like, I understand, and we ended on good terms. Then he came back to me like fifteen minutes later and said, you know what, I actually I didn't read the article before, but now I did, and he was even more upset. 00:34:42 Speaker 1: And that was the end. 00:34:45 Speaker 3: He just got the headline and heard some things then he actually read it, and that one. I don't regret. That one. I don't regret because I think it was fair. Even Bud Black. You know what, I'm not gonna coming because I don't know if that's on that or not. But I did have some I did have some people, you know, other reporters and people in the organization kind of come up to me and saying, you know, I'm not going to say this publicly, but that was that was right on and Bud Black did not say that. But yeah, I mean I had a conversation with Bud later and and he's and he's pretty cool about it, and uh, I yeah, I think it was fair. And I you know, I respect Carlos. He's a hard worker, and he has a family and he cares, and I think he's just you know, wired a certain way. So it was what it was. 00:35:30 Speaker 1: That really is the life of a columnist. You're essentially a radio personality in print form. I mean, you have to take a side on something, and you have to you have to put your foot down. It is so much different than beat writing, where you're just reporting what happens. You need to take one side or another. And the problem when you do that is there is always another side. There's always another faction of people who have the very strong opposite opinion of you. And you know you you're Your phone number and email are both listed at the bottom of every article you write, so that leaves you very open to the general public to receive all this criticism as well, which is it's it's it's a job that's definitely not for everybody. 00:36:13 Speaker 3: Yeah, I enjoy it. I enjoy being able to give my opinion. It's one of the reasons that got into journalisms. I feel like it's one of the industries where you don't have to spin things. Almost anything else you kind of do. If you're a company man, you got to you gotta spend things for the company. If you're in pr you know they can't be honest, and nor should they necessarily be honest. That's ano their job. They're trying to do whatever's best for their organization. But yeah, I do like it. What I will say is that sometimes you're on deadline and you have to make a choice on an angle, and you got forty five minutes to write something, and you go for it, and as you're writing, you're like, I'm not sure this is a great idea, but you have to send it and you kind of have to own it. And so when people pick apart those articles and come at me or if it's public, I don't get too bent out of shape about these things. I can't. I write one hundred and eighty of these a year, but that that's when I'll get a little bothered. I'm like, yeah, they you know, when I know there's a hole in the story or a hole in the argument and people call me out on it, you know, I don't shut down for the day. But I'm like, yeah, they're right. When I know when I feel like my case is airtight and people hate it anyways, that doesn't bother me at all. Even if it's a player manager. I'm like, no, I stand by my opinion on this, and whether it's popular in the clubhouse or in the public is inconsequential to me. And you really get used to these commentaris and emailers in a hurry, like it just brushes off your back. 00:37:45 Speaker 2: So yeah, it's second nature. It's like some of the comments we get on our social media posts, like everybody like there's always people that want to rip it apart. There's always somebody out there that's not going to like what you're saying. It's just it's just what you sign up for some of these things. 00:37:58 Speaker 1: Really, if someone thinks we really hate Suarez, like really thinks we hate an O for We didn't say anything that that was like, yeah, well, it was the comment about that we gave his defense I think in F grade this season. 00:38:12 Speaker 2: Not his defense. We gave his first half grade like a C minus because we said it's defense has been great, he has not been hitting. And somebody spun that to you guys hate Geno. 00:38:24 Speaker 3: Okay, pretty much, somebody did. 00:38:27 Speaker 1: Right. 00:38:28 Speaker 3: It's like, okay, there's always gonna be somebody right. 00:38:31 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 00:38:32 Speaker 3: It is a weird line because I do sometimes think you should listen to people, Like, if there's a lot of people saying one thing, I think it's fair to go are they right? Oh no, they're not right. But I think sometimes to take that moment and go hmm, and take the criticism and take what people are saying and evaluate whether whether they're on to something is healthy as long as you don't take it to heart, rather than just going I'm right and everyone else is wrong all the time. 00:39:00 Speaker 2: I'm with you. Well, speaking of columns that you've written, you just wrote this column this week about Julio Rodriguez and his lack of clutch hitting this season, and there's not many ways that you can go about this in terms of agreeing or disagreeing, the numbers are all out in front of you. He is not hitting clutch situations this year, and you really outline this in your article because I think it has played a significant factor in the team's lack of success this year. 00:39:23 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. I mean, as I pointed out in the story, Julio has definitely underperformed in terms of expectations this year. But if you are a fan Grafts believer, he's still been tied for their best player according to their war. I think he and Kirby this is like as of two days ago each had a two point seven and we've talked about the difference between b woar and F four and who really knows who's right on that. But he's had a productive year, certainly, not anywhere close to what people were expecting or compared to what he did last year. But in the clutch he's just been horrible. I think one s batting average in lat and close situations Late and close I can't remember exactly what that is, but basically later than the seventh inning, within one run or tied or you know, something like that. What would consider clutch situations not hitting not slugging, not getting on base. His ninth inning stats are even worse, I think, and small sample size for extra innings, but just yeah, he's not there. And you know last night was another example. He had a chance. You know, he was up in the tenth and you know, he at least made contact this time, but he didn't do anything. And you know, the question is is he trying too hard, as Scott Servis, you know, said in the postgame press conference on Sunday, Yeah, maybe he might be. Or he's just chasing these sliders that pitchers are, you know, throwing them. They're throwing them junk, and he doesn't seem to have the discipline to lay off him. I was surprised that the Blue Jays pitched to him on Sunday. Then I looked at the clutch numbers and I'm like, oh, I see why they did. I mean, first base was wide open and that runner didn't mean anything. The runner the winning run was on second, go ahead on third, and you know, they decided to dance with a guy making two hundred and ten million dollars. So it's been a problem. And if he'd come through just two or three times this year, you know, they'd be right in the wildcard race, but he hasn't. 00:41:26 Speaker 1: And the thing is, if you look at his leverage numbers on Baseball Reference. We've talked about he's bad in high leverage spots, He's been almost equally shitty and low leverage spots do I think medium leverage he's He's been fine this year. I think around an eight hundred OPS. But I don't know if we can just circle the high leverage spots for who we are. I'm gonna take this on a couple of things. One because I don't think it's necessary, like a close ones stand out the most, but it's not the only spots that he's struggling in. Second, I was just curious, so I looked at the mariners entire late and close stats yesterday. There is one single full time player who, by the way, just hurt himself and is probably out for the season, thank you, Jared, who has an OPS over seven hundred and late and close situation one full time player. The rest of the group that seven of your nine starters that you were counting on for contributing significant roles this year atrocious in Layton close situations. So that's why I'm just like, well, yes, Julio's the highest paid, he's the face of the team, he's the most important. But it's not just him. 00:42:34 Speaker 3: It's not in service said this explicitly. I asked him specifically about Julio, and he was like, well, it's not just Julio, it's a lot of the younger guys. So you're totally right, TJ. I guess my thing was, this is the this is the franchise, right, this is the guy that people are turning to. This is the guy that people are expecting to deliver, and he hasn't. But that's interesting. I didn't know all those stats, so thanks for bringing that up. But it all so it could have been Yeah, I suppose it could have been a Mariners don't deliver in the clutch in general. I'd have to go back and look, but I think the league average OPS for laton close situations was six' eighty nine. So the fact that only one player is above seven hundred and he's gone for the year, most likely that's not good. And what was the difference between the Mariners this year and the Mariners last year? They won close games and they delivered in those situations. Not only are they not doing it at the You know, not only are that not doing better than anyone else, they seemed to be doing it worse than everybody else. And hence you got a team that may likely be sellers at the trade deadline, which was every which would have been everyone's nightmare four months ago. 00:43:43 Speaker 1: Another fascinating thing, Matt, are you familiar with the Fangrafts clutch metric. 00:43:48 Speaker 3: I'm not. Well so. 00:43:50 Speaker 1: Fangrafts measures about, on average, how clutch a team is. I don't believe we mentioned this in the earlier segment of this podcast, so I'll mention it here. They're actually like zero last year and clutch metric when meant they were pretty much dead average when it came to how clutch they were in certain scenarios, which I thought was interesting because if there's one thing we think of with the last two Mariners teams, that twenty one team, I believe by that metric was the most clutch team of all time. And then we have last year where they were dead in the middle of baseball and still managed to win all of those one run games and orchestrate their way into the playoffs. But then this year, somehow low and I couldn't believe this. When we looked at it. They're not even one of the ten worst clutch teams in baseball this year, not even one of the ten worst, which I don't believe it. I don't believe it, but it is true. 00:44:39 Speaker 3: Somehow Does that apply to hitting and pitching? 00:44:43 Speaker 1: I think that's just hitting. 00:44:44 Speaker 3: It's just hitting, okay, because last year I felt like they were super clutch with their bullpen. You know, you'd get it would be tied, you know, after the fifth inning and the zero zero zero zero zero, and that I think they had like the fourth best era in baseball among relievers last year. That bullpen carried them and was I think a big reason why they won all those close games this year. And their bullpen's been good again this year, so that might explain a lot of I mean last year in terms of why the hitting numbers didn't come through, But the fact that you know they're that low this year, that's interesting to me. I did expect somewhat of regression to the mean with all the close games. You just can't keep winning like that. I mean, it's a coin flip in a sense every time, and they were winning all of them in twenty one and twenty two, so they've come down a little bit. But I guess when your best player is just or your most talented at least just keeps coming up short in these situations, you notice, and everyone's been noticing. 00:45:43 Speaker 2: Well to your point, Matt, just going through some of these clutch stats again, Julio has by the numbers, been the least clutch player on the team. So it does stand out for a reason, not just because he's the best player, but the numbers back it up. I believe Tay oscars two on that list, which is funny because he just had a great weekend against his former team. Clutch in these clutch situations, But it does stand out, not just because he's the face of your team, but no, he is coming up short in all these situations. 00:46:08 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's you know, I'd love to know what's going on in his head right now. If he's just like I got paid all this money, I need to deliver, or it's just hey, you know, we've had a year to scout you, we know what to throw you, and you're not adapting. I don't know, but I'm sure it's frustrating for a lot of people, probably more so for Julio than anyone else. 00:46:30 Speaker 2: I just wonder if there's even a way to fix it, Like it doesn't feel like there's a way you can just snap your fingers and fix it. But I'm just kind of thinking out loud here. 00:46:39 Speaker 3: Yeah again, I mean, I don't know all the latent close at bats. There have been probably like sixty five or seventy or something like that, so you know, there's always stretches in a season where you have a bad seventy at bats, So it's hard to say for sure, but yeah, I would image that if his brain works like any other or most human beings, he's like everyone expects the world of me, and I need to deliver in a way that wasn't necessarily expected to me at this point last year. You know, I'm getting paid all this money. I'm being hyped as the franchise. I've been struggling a lot of times, when you are struggling, you try even harder. I know this with sleep, right, If I have trouble sleeping, I really try hard to sleep and I can't do it, and it's just a vicious cycle. So you're like, okay, you know, you try to hit the cliche six run Homer every time you're up there, so that might be it, or he might just be facing you know, really good pictures who have a scouting report on him and they know what they're going to chase. I mean, the way he's flailing at some of these sliders is definitely noticeable. So I don't know if it's just play discipline. I don't know if he's just psyched himself out. I don't know if it's sample size, but it's been a big issue, and if they're out of the playoffs this year, which is looking more and more likely, it's something that you're gonna have to point to. 00:48:09 Speaker 1: And as you pointed out in your column with I would say equal protection in the lineup last year had none of these issues in clutch situations. He was great last year. When it was big moments, he was it didn't seem to. 00:48:20 Speaker 3: Matter, and he was amazing in the ninth inning, amazing. I think he had an ops of like, yeah. 00:48:27 Speaker 1: It was like very it was like Barry Bond's prime yeah level, Oh yes, in those situations up there. 00:48:33 Speaker 3: So yeah, I don't I don't. I don't know what the fix is. There's a lot of things to fix there. I don't know if it's going to be fixed, but. 00:48:43 Speaker 2: Let me see, Okay. I wanted to transition a little bit here and circle back to a couple of takes that we've kind of talked about sitting in the press box over these last few weeks. 00:48:53 Speaker 3: I highlighted, I hope it's one. I hope you're going for one that I'm very passionate about, but go for it. 00:48:59 Speaker 2: Okay, So I actually have three. I'll start with the one that I think I think you're referring to. Number one is you were just saying to me a couple of days ago that you believe that if a hitter gets on via an error, they're on base percentag should actually go up and and you double down on that. 00:49:15 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh yeah, there's no question, there's no question. Look, why are strikeouts so valued by sabermetricians, right, it's because there's no possibility of advancing a runner of getting on base. If you strike people out, you're you're basically saying you can't. You don't threaten me if you put the ball in play. I mean, each Row was a great example. Back when he was playing, he was super fast. He'd put the ball in play. You know, somebody at third or short would or the short stop of third base would be like, oh, man, I better rush to get this guy. And it comes out of their hand and he's on base, so he gets credit for being on base, or he doesn't getgree he's on base, but nothing reflects that even though nothing would have happened, he wouldn't be on base. If he struck out or if he was slow, they probably would have taken some time and been able to get him. So after I mentioned this to you and other people in the press box, this is something I've been thinking about for a while. Larry Stone was against me, Adam Jude was against me, and I looked up an old article from David Schoenfield, who was basically asking the same question, and he pointed out this was when Miggy Cabrera and Mike Trout, I think in twenty fourteen were battling for MVP. This might have been Carrera's triple crown here, and he was like, Trout actually produced seven point seven more runs simply by getting on base on error, and there was nothing to reflect that. There was nothing to reflect that. So if you put the ball in play, you're giving yourself a chance, and whether it's through war or some other metric, I think that needs to be reflected. But the fact that you are on base, I think on base percentage just the best way to reflect that. But I don't know what you guys think. 00:50:59 Speaker 1: Do we want to do we want to Is this a call to reform on base percentage or create a new stat. 00:51:07 Speaker 3: I would reform on base percentage. I mean the problem is you probably have to go back throughout history and look at every time somebody reached on an error and that and that would be difficult, and you know, you're uh, you know, I don't know how. I mean, I'm sure it is actually very plausible. I mean, we have wars on Walter Johnson, so you know you can. You can figure this stuff out. Yeah, I would, I would do that. I think I think it's I think it's the fairest way to do it. I think that needs to be reflected somehow, and I think on base percentage makes the most sense to do it. So yeah, that that's my new mission. 00:51:45 Speaker 2: So my follow up to this is, you said Larry disagreed with you, You said Adam Jude disagreed with you. Did you have anybody that was on your side about it. 00:51:52 Speaker 3: Yeah, well I started to turn them. I started to turn them. Alex Oh god, I'm sorry. Alex Is remembers last year. Yeah, the guy, yeah, like the stat genius for there. 00:52:05 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he. 00:52:06 Speaker 3: Was kind of he was like, I don't know if I totally agree with that, but I don't hate that take at all. And he actually said he was reading a book like eleven years ago and one guy made the argument to just eliminate the error completely. I don't agree with that because I think not even necessarily for the batter's sake, but you need to point out when the fielder makes an error, just you know, for fielding percentage and all that stuff. But yeah, I think I think I got in people's heads, and Adam and Larry and we'll touch base in a month or so. 00:52:38 Speaker 1: Do you think it's kind of kind of interesting the thought of eliminating errors, because you think about it, that's not really how we measure defense anymore. We have way more options of how to actually say who's a good defender and who's not depending on not how many errors you are. A terrible fielder might not have any errors because they physically cannot get to the ball, unlike say a Julio Rodriguez, who will get more errors to the fact he can cover way more ground in centerfield. A post to say, putting Mark Trumbo in centerfield, like, yeah, he's not covering a ball in the gap. Sorry, he's not a chance to get an error. But Julio might get over there and the ball might go in and out of his glove and he'd get dan. 00:53:16 Speaker 3: That might happen, or people might take risks that they wouldn't take take before because they have no chance of getting to it. So, yeah, that's a great point. I don't know if this is apples to apples comparison, but it's a little bit like the cornerback who doesn't have any interceptions, but he might be the best cornerback of the league just because nobody messes with him. But yeah, and errors are also arbitrary, right, we need a scorer to tell us that we don't exactly know. So you could just say, hey, if you hit the ball and you're on base and it didn't cost you an out, maybe that's just a hit. 00:53:51 Speaker 2: I don't know. Here's the second. 00:53:55 Speaker 3: I'm not advocating for batting average. I'm advocating for on base. 00:53:58 Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, I think think that's fair. 00:54:01 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:54:01 Speaker 2: The second take I had, well, this wasn't the take of yours. This was actually a take of TJ's and I think you disproved it when I was talking to you about it this weekend. So for anybody, for anybody listening this week, or anybody who listens to this podcast. A couple of weeks ago, after All Star Week, TJ had a take on here. He said, I think the reason, I mean, I think possibly a reason each row was not at All Star Week is he said, is because somehow it was orchestrated that he didn't show up and he wasn't in the spotlight. So it could all be on O Tawny as a type of sales pitch. Because they talked about how six years ago he thought he was an ECHI ro shadow and I said, do I believe that? I don't know. I said, it's not the worst conspiracy theory I've ever heard. If you were a person to buy into that, maybe it's not the worst take. And I told that to you, Matt, and you said, yeah, I don't think that's the case. 00:54:45 Speaker 3: I think Divish Ryan Divish actually tweeted that each row just had a prior obligation, the prior commitment, and I didn't really follow up and figure out what that was. But Ryan's not the type of guy that would just protect each row in that situation. 00:54:59 Speaker 1: So did the did the prior obligation come as soon as the All Star Game was announced last year? He's like, this might be a little too much attention on here. It might need a reason to get out of country. 00:55:10 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I got a prior commitment all of a sudden. I don't know. I don't know that Ichiro was worried about being in a guy's shadow. I feel like I'd be interested in what their relationship is because I know Otani. You know, he mentioned that he uh spent the last couple off seasons in Seattle and he was working out at a drive line in Kent. So I'd be curious to know what their relationship is right now. But each row I wasn't here when E was playing. He doesn't strike me as the type of guy that would just ditch an All Star game, you know, to clear the way for Otani. I feel like, if anything, him being there with Otani would would be like a great moment for Seattle. So I don't know, but I also know that a lot of conspiracy theories end up being right DJ, So I'm not going to totally discredit you, but I would say I would be more confident in the idea that he had he had a legit prior commitment, even more so than I'm more than I'm confident that Beavers won't win ten games. So I'm pretty confident. 00:56:16 Speaker 1: Okay. The other the only other thing I could think about is he didn't he got a prior commitment because he knew they would not let him play catch in the outfield and take VP during the All Star week Tro Yeah, because yeah, I mean, is he going to show up like with the rest of them and just stand around to talk Like, No, he wants to get out there. That's what he does every Mariner's home weekend. 00:56:37 Speaker 3: So he's the guy that does an age and keeps playing. A lot of people think Etro could have won the home run derby. 00:56:43 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yes, there's some great videos on it. I'm honestly like, in terms of that tinfoil hat, I might I might believe that a little bit possible. 00:56:52 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's possible. A lot of three hundred and sixty foot Homers, but might have been able to do it. What's the third one? 00:57:00 Speaker 2: The last one I have for you here, and we'll see if you double down on this one. 00:57:03 Speaker 1: But tas okay. 00:57:07 Speaker 2: So we were also just talking about, just coincidentally enough, on a previous episode, fairly recently, about Rob Manfred's tenure getting extended and he's gonna be the commissioner again. And I said to all our listeners, if you're a person out there and you think Rob Manford has not even done a good job, but a half decent job, dm us reply to one of our tweets something, let us know that you're out there. And I was talking to you about it, and you said, I actually don't think he's done a half bad job. Now, I personally strongly disagree with that, but maybe you have a different take. 00:57:41 Speaker 3: Well, Rob Manfred's job essentially is he works for the owners the same way Roger Goodell is Roger Goodell does, and so he's not necessarily out there trying to make the players happy. But I also don't I also feel like the game has gotten better under his watch. Now, you know, as someone who's worked in newspapers for nineteen years, I know that a lot of people on top have taken credit for things that they didn't actually come up with. But you look at the pitch clock. I think that was a game changer. I think that's one of the most significant additions to the sport, and maybe the most in the last fifty years or so. I know they're making more money. There was a couple other things that we were talking about. I think the runner on second base in extra innings was huge, and so I just look at this from like a macro level. Or even extending the fencing to protect kids or protect people from from you know, stray foul balls, I think was good. So is he necessarily does he present himself you know as well as other commissioners have I know, like Adam Silver is beloved in a way that Rob Manfred will never be. Has he said some stupid things? Sure, I think most commissioners are. Has base all improved under his watch? I think yeah, it has. I think it has. I think it's in a better spot. And uh, you know, you don't have to like someone to say that you'd hire them. And I think there's a situation where I see rubs a lot of people the wrong way. But did he get Did he do the job he was supposed to do. Yeah, I don't think that he did. 00:59:22 Speaker 5: In terms of some marketing things too, I don't know you didn't mentioning the let's say the Field of Dreams game or just like the destination games, I think is a is a phenomenal idea. 00:59:33 Speaker 1: I think we would all agree he didn't come up with those. I don't think Rob Manfred woke up one day he came to the office likes, but probably he let he you know, he's in charge, right, He's in charge of the league, so it's his responsibility to make sure these events go on. And I would say they've been quite the success because they are that one destination thing all year. And you could compare something to like, you know, the NFL owns Thursday, Sunday and Monday every nine of the week. Well, why not baseball take one game a year where everyone's like, oh shit, this is on national TV and they're playing in a cornfield in Iowa. Isn't that cool? Everyone's tweeting about it. So I mean, i'd give him that too. I think that's a little bit on the creative side of Rob Manfred. 01:00:15 Speaker 3: I'll challenge you how do you think he's made it worse. If you were to say, don't extend Manfred, what would be your argument. 01:00:23 Speaker 2: I mean, so much of it just has to do I hate the way he handled the lockout, and I think baseball could have come back so much faster during the COVID year and could have been the sport that everybody had their eyes on and could have helped the game grow that much more rapidly during twenty twenty when everybody was just yearning for some sport to watch, and it took baseball forever to get back because I mean, the players and owners couldn't get out of their own way, and I think for the most part it was the owners and Manfred being incredibly selfish. So that's what really I think rubs me and a lot of people at. 01:00:54 Speaker 3: The fair point. Yeah, that's a fair point. I don't want to say all bets are off during the COVID years. So many people are trying to figure out how to handle it. But yeah, no, I mean it was something where I think when did when did they come back that year? 01:01:11 Speaker 1: It was July. They came back in July. 01:01:12 Speaker 2: I think it was only a couple of days before the NBA started too, so then there was two sports playing at the same time. 01:01:18 Speaker 3: Right, Okay, I'd have to go back and look at that. I'd be going off the cuff if if I were to have a take right now. In terms, I do remember I think writing and Colum saying they should get they should get back out there. We have safety protocols in play. I don't remember what the hold up was exactly three years ago. What was the big hold up? 01:01:43 Speaker 1: It was just I think the the the owners and the owners were worried about losing too much money, so they wanted to get that. They wanted to bleed enough days to get to a certain number of days towards the end of the season, which in theory makes sense. But as a fan, like obviously, we don't want to hear that. We just want to wait, just want. 01:02:00 Speaker 3: To watch game. They didn't want to play ninety games and empty stadiums. They'd rather play Yes, yeah. 01:02:05 Speaker 1: They wanted sixty instead, right, And I think it all boils down to the public image of Rob Manfred. To be honest, I mean him going up on the stage during the during the draft, getting booed and looking like like put it perfectly. I mentioned this a couple of weeks ago on this podcast, and I'll just rehash it. Looked like a substitute teacher who lost control of the class. And I feel like, as a commissioner, that's not necessarily the image you want to go off because it doesn't really feel like you have control of the situation. But you know it is what it is, and everything still still happened in that In that sense. 01:02:41 Speaker 3: Everything's happened. And man, we talk all the time about coaches who won the press conference when they got hired and then their team sucks. And there's guys who were timid and camera shy and don't seem comfortable and then they succeed. I think image is a little bit overrated commanding the room and all that stuff in terms of how you deal with the media. If you're good with the media and your team's bad and everyone likes you, they'll go easier on you. Bud Black's a great example in San Diego. They made the playoffs. One don't they make They made the playoffs once in nine years and they were really bad for like his last five and he was he was fine. Everyone loved him. So yeah, I think as long as he's keeping the train moving. If he gets booed and looks uncomfortable and a little overwhelmed at the draft, I can live with that. I sound like a rob Manfred's Stan right now. I don't know. I'm not like having you know, we don't have familiar ties or anything like that. I'm just I'm trying to be objective about it. And Uh, I would say he's been a net positive for the game, but I'd have to go back and look at the COVID situation. 01:03:50 Speaker 2: That just about wraps up. Although I think TJ had one last thing for you, I do. 01:03:54 Speaker 1: Have one completely off the cus, Matt. So is it a gift or a curve to share a name with a billionaire? Did you know that there's a billionaire with your exactly Matt Culkins? Oh yeah, Are you entitled to some of his money? 01:04:11 Speaker 3: I think i'm his muse. I believe yeah. I think he looks at me and he's like, man, I got a billion dollars, But I don't think I come up first on Google results. So he's got he's got a ways to go. No, it's it's uh. I'll say it's a blessing. I'll say it's a blessing. He's definitely got me on money, but I think I could take him in arm wrestling for sure, if you take a look. 01:04:37 Speaker 2: I don't even know who he is, Like, dij how did he make his money? Did you ever figure this out? 01:04:41 Speaker 1: He founded Appian software company. I've never heard I'd never heard of it before. I don't know what Appian is. I didn't know there was another Matt Caulkins out there, but he was the one. Yeah, you're right, he like you were first. You were Your author page was at the top of the Google search, but then it was like ten of the other Matt call. Oh yeah, wow, Matt. Is Matt living a double life on us? 01:05:03 Speaker 3: Hey? I mean he's got glasses Clark Kent situation here. He's also a board game developer. He's a board game geek and he's created a bunch of boards. I know a lot about Matt Caulkins. There's also another Matt Calkins who has like he was like totally jacked on Instagram too. So I would say, if your last name is Calkins, name of Matt, He's gonna go on to do big things. 01:05:27 Speaker 2: In a perfect world, you could combine the Matt Calkins from the gym and the Matt Calkins who makes all the money. 01:05:32 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and then yeah, and then it spits you out and you and you decided to write for a newspaper. 01:05:36 Speaker 3: We should have to sit down. 01:05:37 Speaker 4: You know. 01:05:37 Speaker 3: There is a guy named Jeff Calkins who wrote who used to write for the Memphis or the Memphis Commercial Appeal, and he actually had a pretty big following. And we bonded over the the common misspelling of our last names, which is c It's c a l k i n s, but everyone says it's c a u l k i n S. And we've emailed each other a couple of times, and his name is g e o f F. He's like, well, how do you think I feel? I'm j e f F c a u l k i n S to everybody, So you've only got. 01:06:09 Speaker 2: A bad well for this Matt Calkins that we have on. This has been awesome. This has been a really fun conversation. We always enjoy chatting it up with you in the press box. We certainly appreciate you coming on today, and we're looking forward to more conversations going forward. 01:06:22 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, man, anytime you want to chat, Let's do it. I'll see you. I'll see you guys out there soon. Looking forward to that cash Baby TJ. 01:06:33 Speaker 1: That was a great interview with Matt Culkins, Lyle. I think my one big takeaway from that interview is that come December, I'm pretty confident I'm going to be five dollars richer. 01:06:45 Speaker 2: Well, maybe if we ever grab a drink with Matt one day, you can go and use that five dollars to buy a drink, or maybe he can just buy you a drink, although as we know, it is hard to find a five dollars drink in the Seattle area. 01:06:58 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know where. We'd have to go back down to Arizona. Maybe if he came to Corvallis, we could. There's a plenty of five dollars drinks down here. 01:07:07 Speaker 2: Well, maybe if we're all at spring training next year, which we've talked about we would love to do and we're certainly hoping to do as long as it all works out. If he's down there and we're down there, maybe we can head over to Mellow Mushroom in Tempe, go to happy hour. Then you can get two drinks. It'll be two dollars marg night, and you can get two drinks with the five bucks. 01:07:26 Speaker 1: You know me, I'm not going to turn down two drinks and now I don't turn down opportunities to double fist. 01:07:32 Speaker 2: Well, maybe we'll have to circle back to that in February because that would be a blast. But Matt was awesome. As you could tell from the interview, he's certainly a personality. He's really outgoing, knows the stuff. Even if he has some takes which we were having to push back on him with a little bit and have some dialogue about, it's all in fun and he's been a blast to get to know being at the Games this year, sitting next to him in the press box, and we look forward to doing more of it. So it was awesome to have Matt on with that. That'll just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Layer podcast. You guys know the drill. If you want to listen to the full form podcast on the audio side, you can do so on Apple, Spotify, Google, and Amazon. Make sure to follow go download the episodes, go give us a five star review. That really helps us out when you leave that five star review, so make sure to do that, and if you want to watch on the video side. Head over to YouTube too, hit subscribe, like comment, turn the notification bells on. That way, when we post an episode or we post short form clips, you'll know about it right away because you'll get an update about it. So go check us out on YouTube and hit that subscribe button and the notification bell. If you want to follow us on social media, you can do so on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube shorts at Marine Layer Pod for TJ Matthewson, this is Lyle Goldstein. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon. 01:09:21 Speaker 3: Y