Episode 472: Does It Mean Anything That Carlos Mendoza Turned Down The Mariners Managerial Job?

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number 472 of the Marine Layer podcast. We have some new information on who the Mariners are interested in for their managerial search. 00:00:09 Speaker 2: We'll react. Your guys' reminder, just make sure to do us a big favor before we really get going with this podcast. Download these episodes if you're listening and make sure to go rate and review and please leave it five stars. It helps a ton. Hit subscribe on YouTube if you're watching. You can also check all of our work out over at our website at marinelayerpod.com. You can also get your merch there or Sign up for our Patreon there. You can find all our episodes there. And then follow us on social media. We're posting content all the time. Hopefully you guys see it already, but we're at MarineLayerPod. 00:00:39 Speaker 1: Let's get it rolling. And we welcome you to this episode of the MarineLayer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network. Recording here on Sunday evening, October 18th. Lyle, if I were to tell you a former big league manager of last year turned the Mariners down, what would your reaction be? 00:01:14 Speaker 2: My reaction would be, does he have a nickname of hashtag Mendozoff? 00:01:20 Speaker 1: He does. Yeah, he does. 00:01:23 Speaker 2: And he turned the Mariners down. Wow. Yeah, there were people kind of, getting a little worked up over that. I don't know how worked up I'd get over Carlos Mendoza. If you miss the story and you wouldn't miss the story. If you were following us on social media, as Lyle said, we were talking about this plenty. So Carlos Mendoza is the match manager. He was the Mets manager in 23, 20 or no 24, 25 and 26. And he was let go in the middle of last year because the team was a disaster and. 00:01:56 Speaker 1: He was a name of interest for the Mariners, and he decided to remove his name from the pool of candidates and take the third base coach's job for the Phillies instead, while also being their infield coach. So instead of potentially landing another managerial job, he opted to keep a lesser role on a different team, which in of itself looks interesting. But as I said on social, there are... A few factors that go into this. 00:02:28 Speaker 2: No doubt. By the way, Mendozov is not actually his nickname. That is just a very, very self-proclaimed Frank the Tank nickname for him. Maybe that's the reason he's not getting back into managing right away. Maybe Frank scared him off. 00:02:42 Speaker 1: You won't get bullied as much as the third base coach. 00:02:46 Speaker 3: No. 00:02:46 Speaker 1: No. 00:02:47 Speaker 2: No, and in fact, you get about no bullying unless you make a bad send, which, you know, Maniac used to sometimes do, and then people get mad. But otherwise, it's not on the daily like it usually is for other managers. So, yes, it's less. 00:03:00 Speaker 1: Can I say this? Like, we would have no shortage of memes if they had hired Carlos Mendoza as their manager. 00:03:08 Speaker 3: Right. 00:03:09 Speaker 1: It's like, oh, Carlos Mendoza makes a bad bullpen decision and they blow the game. It's like, find Frank giving his end-of-season grades where he's like, Alonso, B, Simeon, F, Carlos Mendoza, F. 00:03:26 Speaker 2: Well, dude, every loss, it was about Carlos Mendoza. There was a game where the Mariners were playing the Mets, I think, in Queens. Yeah, it was 2025. It was in Queens. And Frank lost it on Mendoza on a Mariners win after the game. I mean, there are so many videos in terms of memes that we could have used if Mendoza was the Mariners manager. However, he's not. He's going to be the Phillies third base coach. And I think a lot of the reasons you highlighted from the post you already did on social media probably has a lot to do with it. Not all managers want to get right back into managing as soon as they're let go. Some do. Some go find new jobs. But some, like Rocco Baldelli, who we'll talk about later, don't immediately go and find a new job in the dugout right away. Or they certainly don't go find a new managerial job right away all the time. Seems like that's more the route Mendoza's taking. He takes a job where he doesn't have to be the lead man for a year. He can be underneath somebody for a year. He can maybe step back a little bit and learn some things for a year. And then he can get back into it if he wants to get back into it. But that's not uncommon for somebody that... loses a managerial job to want to take at least a gap year before looking elsewhere. 00:04:41 Speaker 1: And you can pick and choose because if you want an offseason where you have a broader amount of teams to choose to manage and interview for a couple different jobs, maybe next offseason would be a better offseason for that because this offseason, as of now, there's only two openings. There's the Mariners and there's the Astros, and that's it. And if you don't want to manage the Mariners and you don't want to manage the Astros... then you're not going to manage next season. This is also a situation, I think, without knowing anything, this is pure speculation, but Mendoza, in his time being a professional coach, joined the Yankees organization in 2010, worked with the Yankees all the way through the 2022 season, and then went to go manage the Mets, or 23 season, and then went to go manage the Mets. It's a long time in New York, or within the Eastern Seaboard. So asking him, hey, Excuse me. I'm a little sick battling a cold. Are you interested in flying all the way out to Seattle and becoming our manager less than a year after being fired in a high pressure situation, might I add, where he was just fired? And if the Mariners have a bad season, he might get let go again. It could be a bit of a tough sell, right? This is an opportunity where you can be a little more patient. 00:05:58 Speaker 2: I mean, there's a world he could still live in his same house in New York and make the drive every day. It's only about an hour 40 minutes from New York to Philadelphia, which is a long drive. But the reason I have that in my head is for those that don't remember, when Craig Council took the Cubs job, the report was he still maintained his residence in the Wisconsin area because he didn't want to make his family move, change schools, etc. They were comfortable where they were. And he makes the commute every day. from Wisconsin to Chicago. There is a world Mendoza could do that same thing, where he just says, okay, I'll drive an hour and a half from New York to Philly each day. I'll drive home after each game. There won't be that much traffic. And then when we're on the road, we're on the road. There's a world he could do that, and maybe he doesn't want to have to pick up and move from where he is. 00:06:47 Speaker 1: He doesn't have a helicopter? 00:06:49 Speaker 2: Well, he could do that. Yeah, he could pull LeBron and live in New York and then helicopter somewhere. That might be a lot of money. 00:06:55 Speaker 1: You think they could carpool? Think he's got room in that helicopter? 00:06:59 Speaker 2: No, I'm sure he has room. The question is, does LeBron let guests travel on his helicopter? 00:07:06 Speaker 1: Does Fanatics let guests travel on their helicopters? 00:07:09 Speaker 2: Yeah, it seemed like the Watchdog and Pablo Torre has a little bit of interest in that story, doesn't it? I saw him tweeting about it. 00:07:16 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it'll probably come out at some point. But yeah, anytime you see something like that, anytime you see something that makes you raise an eyebrow a little bit, it's like, hmm. Meanwhile, Carlos Mendoza can blend right in with all the other commuters between New York and Philadelphia. 00:07:33 Speaker 3: Sure. 00:07:34 Speaker 1: Like, you know, millions of people. He'll be the same guy sitting in traffic pissed off at the guy in front of him for brake checking him. 00:07:41 Speaker 2: Welcome to the East Coast. I will say, quick side note, if there actually is a story that comes out on LeBron that's a negative story, That would be a first. Because I will say this. TJ and I both really like LeBron James. Like, in my opinion, he is the greatest basketball player ever. There's a lot of people that don't. It's obviously a polarizing topic. People don't like that he's a flopper. People don't like that he's a whiner at times, etc. 00:08:05 Speaker 3: I don't know. 00:08:05 Speaker 2: Everybody has their reasons. 00:08:06 Speaker 1: He's pretty cringe. Have you seen the trend where he'll read a book? He'll take a picture of himself reading the book, but it's always the first page? Uh-huh. 00:08:17 Speaker 3: Yeah. I know. 00:08:18 Speaker 2: Some people... People have their things with LeBron. Let me just say, as a podcast that's never really gotten into the classic sports talk Jordan-LeBron debate, let me just say, if Michael Jordan was playing in the era of social media, he would get cooked online all the time, too. The fact that Michael Jordan didn't have to play in the social media area helped him a lot. Otherwise, people would have found plenty of things to get on him about. It's just the world that we live in, in social media. Anyway, go ahead. 00:08:44 Speaker 1: I was going to say, but LeBron has made many more questionable decisions since he's gotten older. 00:08:49 Speaker 2: I guess that's fair. 00:08:50 Speaker 1: I mean, he essentially bullied one of the legacy franchises of a sport into drafting and playing his kid. 00:08:57 Speaker 2: And then they hired a podcaster to be his coach in JJ Redick. Yeah, I mean, okay. 00:09:01 Speaker 1: And then he left. 00:09:03 Speaker 2: Look, people have their gripes. That's fine. I happen to like him. I think he's the greatest ever. But he has never truly had... A true off-the-court issue, which in 20 years, nothing. You've never heard one bad real step that he's taken. Yes, people don't like that they made him draft his kid. 00:09:25 Speaker 1: Maybe until this year. There might be a couple different things that people are kind of raising their eyebrow at for him. 00:09:32 Speaker 2: Maybe, and again, if the story like that breaks... it'll be a first. Cause he's never, again, it's a credit to LeBron. He's never really had any off the court. Like not one. He never, never anything about an altercation at a bar, nothing like he's been pretty good about his image. I will give him that. 00:09:51 Speaker 1: Well, we'll see. Let's check back on this topic in a couple of years when Pablo Torres got his time to, dig into LeBron's situations, and then maybe we could reevaluate a little bit on what the status of that is. I don't think Carlos Mendoza will be taking a helicopter to practice for the Phillies. I don't think Carlos Mendoza will be getting on a plane to the Mariners to manage their team. Would he have been a good fit? Maybe. It's possible. He had experience. There's a couple of things that like him and Joe Espada have a lot in common. They spent a lot of time in very successful organizations for Espada. It was the Yankees and Astros for Mendoza. It was the Yankees. They, they worked together at points and they, I think we're both put in situations that could have easily had the blame land elsewhere. And you say, was this really my fault? Uh, in case you guys forgot like what the Mets have done since Carlos Mendoza took over. So the first year they make the NLCS, the team was really good. They followed the Dodgers until the Brewers this year, everyone lost to the Dodgers in the last two years. Then in 25, I mean, then the cracks were starting to show. They had the best record in baseball in June and then proceeded to miss the playoffs after that. Some great Frank moments in that, in that stretch. Awesome Frank moments. that we maybe could have used if they hired him. And then in 2026, with supposedly a very, very, very smart president of baseball operations in David Stearns, so the Mets let Pete Alonzo walk to the Orioles, decide that the best case scenario for his replacement is $ 20 million for Jorge Polanco, who was One of the worst players in baseball this season. And yes, Lyle and I did want Jorge Polanco back at a reasonable price for the Mariners. We can also both objectively say now if they did that, Jerry would rightfully get destroyed for signing him because it would have been an absolute disaster. Mets decided to overpay for Jorge Polanco. The Mets decided to trade away Brandon Nimmo for Marcus Simeon. Marcus Simeon, unfortunately, very nice guy. There have been very nice to us three years in a row now, which is great. Uh, has been one of the worst players in baseball in 2026. Yeah. And then, and then the cherry on top and then the cherry on top for some reason, uh, Steve Cohen and David Stearns decided that Boba Shett was worth over $ 50 million a year. 00:12:34 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:12:37 Speaker 1: And that, Like how is Mendoza? Oh, and then Mendoza had to deal with a ton of injuries too. They were the most injured team in the league through the first two months of the season. I don't know how that's like a reflection on Carlos Mendoza's ability to manage baseball games. 00:12:50 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:12:51 Speaker 2: There were points where he did get a bad deal. And obviously when you sign players to that level of a contract and you start to get frustrated with their play, I mean, what are you going to do as a manager? You can't constantly sit those guys. You can't constantly sit Boba Shett, even though he was playing horrendous defense and wasn't hitting at all. There's nothing you could do. Like, you have to play him as the manager. You have bosses. You have David Stearns and Steve Cohen telling you, yeah, these guys better be in the lineup. 00:13:15 Speaker 1: But also, like, you had your bosses saying, oh, yeah, Carlos, Pobachet's going to play third. Has he ever played third? 00:13:22 Speaker 3: Nope. 00:13:23 Speaker 1: Oh, you're also going to have Jorge Polanco play first base. Oh, has he played first base before? 00:13:28 Speaker 3: No. No? 00:13:31 Speaker 1: Good luck. 00:13:32 Speaker 2: Do you, do you remember when the Mariners were attempting to work out Jorge Polanco at first base at certain points of the two seasons he was in Seattle? And then they never really played him there. Cause again, I don't think it would have worked. 00:13:43 Speaker 1: I mean, I remember his legendary five game stint at third base. 00:13:46 Speaker 2: Oh yeah. That lasted a long time. It's fine. The Mariners said he was the solution at third. 00:13:51 Speaker 1: Which Mariners third base project was more memorable, Luis Urias or Jorge Polanco? 00:13:58 Speaker 2: Uh, In a positive connotation, Polo, because he didn't play third, but at least his 2025 was pretty unbelievable, capped off by a huge hit in the playoffs. Arias, I mean, dude, Arias was one of the worst third basemen to, like, ever grace the position. 00:14:14 Speaker 1: But I'm just talking about their time as third baseman. 00:14:18 Speaker 2: It's probably still Arias. Polanco got yanked after five games. 00:14:24 Speaker 1: Sure. God, I remember that first video. Uh, from spring training of Urias throwing. 00:14:31 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:14:31 Speaker 1: Just, that was unreal. But yeah, that's got the kind of situation that Carlos Mendoza was like put in as an infield coach himself. 00:14:39 Speaker 3: Right. 00:14:39 Speaker 1: Where it's like, we're going to pay all these guys an absurd amount of money. So they have all of this leverage over you to say no, if they don't feel like they want to do something. And then we're also going to play them at a position. 00:14:49 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. 00:14:52 Speaker 2: Again, I just wanted to say on Marcus Semien, obviously he's had a great career. It's just he is getting to a point with his age where, unfortunately, he's just not outputting the same production as he once did. He's just not. But, yeah, that is who you traded for. And, again, you trade for Semien, you have to play him every day. You sign Bichette, you have to play him every day. Those are two guys that weren't playing their positions well defensively. Then Lindor gets hurt. You don't have Alonso. You don't have Polanco, who, again, was not playing well when he was healthy and only played about 35 games. He had injuries all over the place. Alvarez was hurt at points. Your rotation was all banged up. I don't know what Mendoza really can do. I think the book is still open on who Carlos Mendoza is as a manager. He's not going to manage in Seattle, but there's a chance he's actually a fine manager who just got a bad deal. 00:15:46 Speaker 1: You know, the more I do this and I talk about baseball for a living and I listen closer to what people in charge have to say, these managers like really must have to learn a lot when they have to work with the president of baseball operations, guys from the Ivy Leagues and David Stearns. You all remember that David Stearns soundbite I played on a podcast like a couple weeks ago. where he's describing their season, and he's using just these ridiculous words. And I just wonder how that works with guys that have always been coaches. Well, you can be analytically driven, but you go from being a coach, and now you're talking with some guy who has always been number one in his class and now runs your organization and is using weird catchphrases in your postseason press conference. Maybe it wasn't a mix with Mendoza and David Stearns. 00:16:47 Speaker 2: Quick side note before we keep going. Do we think Mendoza actually needs handcuffs on spending? I almost wonder if he operates better. 00:16:58 Speaker 1: You mean David Stearns? 00:17:01 Speaker 2: Yeah, what did I say? 00:17:02 Speaker 1: You said Mendoza. 00:17:03 Speaker 2: Oh, sorry. I almost wonder if David Stearns needs handcuffs on his spending from Steve Cohen. Does he actually operate better when he doesn't have this crazy payroll to work with? Because in Milwaukee, he was forced to operate on the margins, and he did so phenomenally. Once he got to the Mets, I figured the combination of how smart Stearns was with the ability to spend when necessary was going to create a great product. But so far, it really hasn't. And part of me almost wonders... If Stearns is essentially now acting like he's a kid in a candy store where he can do whatever he wants because he's got unlimited payroll and it leads him to make stupid decisions and get away from everything he'd done by the book in Milwaukee, where now he's doing things like giving Boba Shett $ 43 million a year. 00:17:47 Speaker 1: What I think the money does, it doesn't help him commit to his process because like when you have a budget, it's easier to commit to your process because you know how much you're going to spend. but he can spend unlimited. I see your point, but Andrew Friedman exists. Yeah. I mean, he can just acquire better players. 00:18:07 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:18:07 Speaker 2: I mean, he needs to do better with the, with the resources he's given, even though he has a lot of resources, he still needs to sign the right guys. So far he has not done that. 00:18:16 Speaker 3: Now. 00:18:17 Speaker 2: I don't think it's going to stop Stearns from spending anytime soon because per the reports already, there's a certain left-hander that's hitting the market this winter that it sounds like the Mets are going to spend every possible dollar for to go and get. There was a report already saying the Mets will match whatever offer Tarek Skubal gets in free agency. 00:18:36 Speaker 1: You don't need to have a money ball mindset to know that signing Tarek Skubal is a pretty solid business idea. 00:18:43 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:18:44 Speaker 2: By the way, The report that Spotrak put out on him was they project his contract to be worth seven years for $ 276 million. So that's $ 39 million a year. And it only takes him through his age 36 season. The question I'm about to ask is different than, is this the deal he actually gets? Because that's a different conversation. If Tarek Skubal got that contract... Are we saying yes to that? Or I should say, are you saying yes to that? Are you listeners saying yes to that? Because I'm telling you right now, I am. If you only had to pay Tarek Skubal a seven-year deal through his age 36 season and not a 10-year deal, I'm doing that. Hmm. 00:19:28 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, yes, I would do that. 00:19:31 Speaker 2: It's not even resetting the AAV market. Zach Wheeler's making more per year than 39 million bucks. Now he's on a shorter contract with higher AAV, but I mean, people were floating around a couple years ago that Scoobo could get $ 400 million in free agency. If it's less than $ 300 million for seven years, I'd do that. 00:19:50 Speaker 3: That. 00:19:51 Speaker 1: And you probably wouldn't pay a couple of your pitchers, but at this rate, I don't think you're going to pay a couple of them anyways. Well, you're not as well. 00:19:58 Speaker 2: Well, you're not paying Kirby. That's for sure. He'll either leave on his own. The Mariners will decide not to pay him. Or I think the most likely at this point, they might trade him this winter. And with every passing day on Logan Gilbert with a lockout looming, if you don't get him extended before opening day, you're not getting an extension done. He's going to hit free agency. So at some point, you're going to have to fill those spots. And that Tarek Scouble guy is pretty good. 00:20:23 Speaker 1: So you're asking me, TJ, if you didn't have to spend any of your own money and the Mariners could acquire Tarek Scouble without giving anything up besides $ 39 million, I'd say, yeah. I'd do that. 00:20:37 Speaker 2: Great. That was pretty easy to me. That was an easy conversation. Awesome. If it's up to us, the Mariners are signing Tarek Skubal. Book it. 00:20:46 Speaker 1: Would you be willing to not extend any of your current starters and sign them? 00:20:52 Speaker 2: I mean, I'd still like to extend Brian Wu. I'd like to extend Logan. I just don't know if it's going to happen. 00:20:58 Speaker 1: I think I'd be willing to sacrifice the four starters that are, I'd say... extension eligible and your rotation assigned Scooble. 00:21:07 Speaker 2: So then a couple of years from now, your rotation looks like saying Logan and Kirby leave. Scooble, Woo, Emerson, Miller, Cade, Sloan, Logan Evans. And that's seven starters talking about depth. So you've still got depth. 00:21:24 Speaker 1: You can always go sign another starter. I mean, that's not out of the question. 00:21:28 Speaker 3: Right. 00:21:28 Speaker 1: There are plenty available. 00:21:29 Speaker 2: But that right there is still seven guys. 00:21:32 Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 00:21:33 Speaker 1: And you still have what three or four years of Brian Wu. I think three years of Brian Wu. 00:21:38 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. 00:21:40 Speaker 2: This will be his first year of ARB. 00:21:42 Speaker 3: Right. 00:21:42 Speaker 1: That's, that's plenty of time. And if you want to bring it back in free agency, great. But if the question is having Tarek Scouble for the next three years to sacrifice signing Brian Wu, like that's pretty easy decision for me. As good as Wu has been. 00:21:58 Speaker 2: Again, I'd love to extend them, but if you're making me pick one or the other, You're talking about a guy that's won back-to-back Cy Young Awards and is one of, let's call it, less than 10 pitchers in baseball that's a true ace. We've talked about this before. There's a difference between a top-of-the-rotation starter and an ace. When Brian Wu's at his best, he is a top-of-the-rotation starter, but Tarek Skubal is an ace, a true ace. Yeah. 00:22:26 Speaker 1: I just don't want to go back and revisit those starts he had against the Mariners in the playoffs. They showed it pretty clearly. 00:22:32 Speaker 2: In a good way for him, you mean, right? Because he dominated those two starts, aside from Polo taking him deep on two solo homers. 00:22:39 Speaker 1: Until he pulled himself out of the game. 00:22:41 Speaker 2: Well, that's a different combo. But you know what? Once he's paid, he doesn't need to pull himself out of games. 00:22:46 Speaker 1: Well, what if he does? 00:22:48 Speaker 2: Well, that's why you have to hire a competent manager to instill the right culture, and that leads right into Rocco Baldelli. And right away from the old guy that used to manage. 00:23:00 Speaker 1: Before we get to... Before we get to Rocco Baldelli, there is a very exciting event that we will be at this weekend and wanted to tell you guys about it. So we're having our next event at the Emerald Queen, at Emerald Queen Casino down in Tacoma. It'll be this Sunday night, October 25th, for their Sunday night football watch party between the Seahawks and the Chiefs. So here's what's going on. 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Get free shipping on your order in 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash marine layer. Rocco Baldelli has floated back to the top of the Mariners' managerial bucket, and it sounds like he might be one of their favorite targets this offseason. 00:25:28 Speaker 2: Yeah, we don't know for sure yet, but... The wording on John Heyman's report about the Mariners and Rocco Baldelli is a little different than the reports that have come out about Espada or about Mendoza. Espada and Mendoza, at the end of the day, I think the Mariners were interested in interviewing them and had them on their very long list of somewhere between 20 and 40 candidates because, again, they're really doing a thorough process on this. But I don't think either of those guys were going to or will end up the guy that ends up as the manager. The report from Heyman is the Mariners are truly interested in Rocco Baldelli. And he has had smoke tied to the Mariners ever since the job came open. I think the smoke here is real. And I think when we end up finding out the finalists for this job, I would be pretty confident one of the finalists is going to be Rocco Baldelli. 00:26:21 Speaker 1: You mentioned that from the national level with John Heyman. Listen to this from the local level with Adam Jude. The lead of his article that he put out today. One of the obvious candidates for the Mariners managerial opening has indeed emerged as a person of interest. Sounds like someone the Mariners like. 00:26:41 Speaker 2: In Baldelli? Yeah. 00:26:42 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:26:44 Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, I think we've said this from the start. I'd be perfectly fine if they hire Rocco Baldelli as the manager. I meant to say this while we wrapped up the Carlos Mendoza topic. And by wrapping it up, I was going to say, that's fine. Carlos Mendoza doesn't need to take this job. You know why? Because that ain't the Mets coach we want anyway. And you guys that are pod listeners and have been listening the last few weeks, you know who we mean. Hashtag hire Kai Correa. Anyway, back to Rocco Baldelli. If that is who they end up hiring, yeah, I think it's a perfectly sound hire. 00:27:13 Speaker 1: He has. 00:27:14 Speaker 2: managed in the past. He is an analytical guy. He is well-spoken. He's worked with the Rays. He's worked with the Dodgers. He's obviously soaked in a lot of information. He's been a field coordinator with the Rays. He's been in the front office with the Dodgers. There is a lot of, like, there's a lot of track record to Rocco Baldelli that checks out for this job and reasons why the Mariners should and reportedly do like him. 00:27:40 Speaker 1: The more I've looked into this, the more I honestly like the idea of Rocco Baldelli being the Mariners manager. I'll get into some of them. But first, I want to get into maybe the main reason why I want Rocco Baldelli as manager. I want you to listen. Just listen. I'm going to play a piece of audio here. It's one of the. 00:27:58 Speaker 3: Worst moments I think we've seen of umpiring in any game I've ever been a part of in baseball. 00:28:04 Speaker 2: And I think it was pathetic. 00:28:08 Speaker 1: Yeah bro direct and to the point no ums yes you knows to the point no tough one tonight's no he's just willing to go right after umpires this dude's got some freaking he's got some like he's direct to the point and he's got some fire too like he'll bark at umpires that's like not the main reason i want to hire him but it does seem like Communication is something, at least on the outside, that he's pretty solid at. And that's a good thing. 00:28:41 Speaker 2: It's a very, very good thing. 00:28:43 Speaker 1: You want to listen to him talk about the sausage they were passing around in 2023? 00:28:47 Speaker 2: The sausage? 00:28:49 Speaker 1: Yeah, just listen. 00:28:50 Speaker 3: Sausage is what it is. I actually looked at the package yesterday. This... This... Like... It's bringing us a lot of hits and runs and stuff, so I'm all for it. I mean, for anyone that hasn't been following, it's a substantial packaged sausage that Jeffers has been carrying around in his bag and throwing at people when we score runs and hit homers. So I'm all for it. I'm slightly concerned as like I'm not even an adult, but slightly concerned as like more of an adult than maybe some of the people in the other room that the package is going to open up and the thing hasn't. been refrigerated in many days. And there's no doubt that when that thing opens up, whoever's touching it is in deep trouble. All right. 00:29:51 Speaker 2: Well, he's got some personality. I will say there were more ums in that clip. However, I don't exactly know the proper way to talk about lucky sausages. So I'll give Rocco a pass for that one. That's not exactly a cliche topic that's easy to be direct and to the point with. But you saw it. You saw it as the clip got to the latter half. He's got some personality and personality. My goodness, do we need some personality from the manager? 00:30:15 Speaker 1: I didn't even need to see more than one clip of him talking postgame. I literally just saw one. I'm like, that sounds pretty good. The bar is very low to exceed that. So that's great. Also, the fact he... So if we're talking about his timeline, right? We talked about his timeline before. Let's give you a little refresher. He spent most of his time in the Rays organization. He was a player for the Rays. He was a first round pick for the Rays. I didn't realize he was the number two prospect in all of baseball at one point. 00:30:51 Speaker 2: Did you know that? Well, he was a first round pick, right? Yeah. 00:30:55 Speaker 1: He was number, he's like a number two prospect. 00:30:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty good. 00:31:00 Speaker 1: But, uh, he came up through the Rays organization. I believe he played his entire career with the Rays. He very clearly, uh, made a very strong connection with Andrew Friedman, who ran the Rays until after the 2014 season, in which Friedman then went from the Rays to the Dodgers and built the juggernaut that we know today. And that relationship had Rocco as a coach in the Rays organization until he was hired by the Twins. And then in his season off from managing, he is in the front office with the Dodgers with Andrew Friedman. And I do think it's a green flag that Understanding how he came up, his roles in the Rays organization, and working with Andrew Friedman for a year after the fact, it makes me think that he does have more of a front office mindset. And when Jerry and Justin talk about alignment with their manager, that this might be the kind of personality they're looking for in a manager. 00:32:05 Speaker 2: Well, that'd be great. Again, you have got to have alignment. You have to have alignment. And yeah, anybody that's spent that much time around Andrew Friedman and around two orgs like the Rays and the Dodgers, you are likely going to soak up a whole bucket full of knowledge, which you would hope Rocco Baldelli's done at this point. And again, this is why it's not fair to manage, to totally judge guys on their managerial tenures alone when it comes to the win-loss record. Because... Rocco Baldelli made the playoffs three times in seven years with the twins. Funny enough, that's actually more than any Mariners manager can say for themselves, aside from Lou Piniella. No, no other managers made the postseason three times. So, um, that alone is, is something to take note of. Now it wasn't the AL central to be fair. It's a weaker division, but the reason you can't just judge guys on their win loss record is we've talked about this in the past, but what is Rocco Baldelli supposed to do when you make the playoffs? And then your organization follows it up by not adding to a team and trying to push for a world series, but slashing your payroll by 30 to $ 40 million. If you're a manager, you can't say it publicly, but I bet you Rocco's sitting there thinking to himself, what the fuck? I just got this team to the playoff. We won our first postseason series in 20 years and you're slashing payroll. I mean, what is he supposed to do? And then, you know, you get to the middle of 25 when that team wasn't playing all that well to begin with. Sure. But then for the final two months of 25, when he's trying to save his job as the manager in Minnesota, he has to work with a roster that's traded away. Joe on Duran traded away. Griffin Jacks traded away. Louis Varlin traded away. Carlos Correa. What are you supposed to do? I'm not saying Rocco was perfect in Minnesota, but it certainly isn't all his fault. And I think that's why it's, you get into some muddy waters trying to just judge managers off their win-loss record with a team, because there's a lot of extenuating circumstances that the manager can't always control. 00:34:07 Speaker 1: I want to read something to you. So the last job that Rocco Baldelli held before being manager of the Minnesota Twins was being the Rays Major League Field Coordinator, which Here's the blurb. Before the 2017 season, The Rays organization promoted Baldelli to the newly created role of major league field coordinator, which involved analyzing tendencies of opposing hitters, coaching defensive skills to players, and helping the team implement defensive strategies during games. Does that sound like something the Mariners need? 00:34:59 Speaker 2: That sounds like three things the Mariners need. Did the Mariners do any of those three things last year? Question mark? 00:35:07 Speaker 1: If they did, they didn't do them well enough. 00:35:09 Speaker 2: Yeah. I have my questions. 00:35:14 Speaker 1: Well, we've heard about their preparation offensively. Definitely not very good. 00:35:21 Speaker 2: Or lack thereof. 00:35:24 Speaker 1: And then the defense, I think, speaks for itself. So, yeah. That stood out to me. 00:35:31 Speaker 2: Great. I mean, they have to get better defensively. I'm not saying Rocco's going to be out there doing all the specific infield drills with the players, but he can certainly implement strategies. He can certainly implement tendencies. That's for sure. 00:35:45 Speaker 1: What are your standards as a manager? Like, that's what it is. What are the qualities you want in your team? Lyle, what is your identity as a baseball team? 00:35:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we got to show up. show up ready to play as they proceed to go 20 innings in a row to start the second half without scoring a run. 00:36:07 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. 00:36:08 Speaker 1: So I don't know about a couple of things that, yeah. A couple of things that stood out to me about Rocco for sure. 00:36:15 Speaker 2: And again, Rocco's not the infield coach, but when I say he can implement tendencies and strategies as a manager, when you're having your daily or weekly meetings with your infield coaches, however often they have meetings, whether it's every day of, you know, a couple of times a week, et cetera, uh, if Rocco's got a background in defense, he can certainly help implement a plan that hopefully works defensively. It sounds like if he were hired, he would very much be in those conversations. 00:36:46 Speaker 1: Yes, I very much agree. So the more this goes on, the more I'm interested in Rocco Baldelli in terms of the guys with experience, the experience of working with very smart front offices. And if they're going to make this work, have the Mariners organization like cohesively work together. 00:37:07 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:37:07 Speaker 3: Great. Great. 00:37:10 Speaker 2: Any other thoughts on Rocco? We always say this, but this is where it gets kind of interesting with trying to dissect managerial hires. There's only so much information you can really talk through because there's not numbers behind these managers. You can watch things, you can talk to people, you can read things, but it's not like analyzing a player. 00:37:29 Speaker 1: And this team didn't win the world series, but if he wants to reincarnate the 2019 Minnesota twins to the 2027 Seattle Mariners, like that would be fun. 00:37:38 Speaker 2: That'd be awesome. 00:37:40 Speaker 1: That team was great. They had the, that was the team that set the home run record before the Braves broke it in 2023. Did they win the world series again? No, they didn't. Were they the best team in the, even in the American league that year? No, they in fact got swept by another great Yankees team that year. God, I remember that season was so fun. The American League this year is just awful. Just an absolute joke. That season had three just titanic teams in the American League with the Twins, the Yankees, and the Astros. And it was really fun to watch in the playoffs. 00:38:18 Speaker 2: That was probably a good time for the Mariners to rebuild, to be honest, because that team had no shot to compete with those Astros and Yankees teams. I always say it. That Astros team didn't win that year. They lost in seven games in the World Series to the Nationals. But I stand by that. I still think that's the best Astros team that's been assembled is 2019, even though they didn't win. 00:38:36 Speaker 1: Well, and the Dodgers also that year won, what, 106 games? Like, there was no chance. 00:38:41 Speaker 2: No, no, of course not. But yeah, that Twins team was so fun. It was also the juice baseball year, but it doesn't change the fact they hit 300 plus home runs as a team. And we're just lighting the world on fire offensively. That'd be great. That'd be awesome. 00:38:54 Speaker 1: Before we, before we wrap this up, speaking of 2019. So before these episodes, I'll usually like throw the Mariners name into the Twitter search bar to just to see if I missed anything before, before recording. And the, like the fourth thing that popped up, was a random highlight from the 2019 Seattle Mariners. And I saw, and I'm going to be honest, I feel like I know a lot of Mariners players. I saw a name I had never heard of before. Like he was pitching in a game in April for the Mariners. I had never heard of him before. It was, what was his name? 00:39:34 Speaker 2: I remember, you told me. You want me to tell the people? 00:39:37 Speaker 1: Well, I'm trying to find, yeah, who was it again? Zach Roskup. Yeah, Zach Roskup. He had a, he honestly didn't even pitch that bad. 19 appearances, a 3-2-1 ERA. I remember him. 00:39:52 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't remember incredibly fun things about him, but I remember him enough from 2019. Although that was a pretty forgettable year, so I don't blame anybody who doesn't remember him. I just remember him briefly. That's all. Man, I will say, Rocco Baldelli's draft class in 2000... Not a good draft class. That top 10 was brutal, as we're still sitting here wrapping up this pod, giving a couple thoughts on Rocco. Bad draft class. 00:40:18 Speaker 1: Wasn't Agon number one that year? 00:40:21 Speaker 2: So he was the one that really thrived, because Agon was great. And to be fair, Chase Utley went at 15, who was also phenomenal. I mean, he was even better than Agon was. 00:40:30 Speaker 3: But. 00:40:31 Speaker 1: Man, the rest of that class. 00:40:33 Speaker 2: That top ten. Adam Johnson went two. Never heard of him. Luis Montanez went three. Don't know him. Mike Stadolko went four. Then Justin Wayne. Then Rocco went six. Matt Harrington never made the big leagues. Matt Wheatland never made the big leagues. Mark Phillips never made the big leagues. And Joe Torres never made the big leagues. Not a great draft class. 00:40:57 Speaker 1: No, it's not. 00:40:58 Speaker 2: Listen to this name. You want to pull out niche Mariner names? Tell me if you remember this name, because this guy got drafted 12th overall. Do you remember Joe Borchard? 00:41:08 Speaker 3: No. 00:41:09 Speaker 2: Well, I remember him because I saw him in a couple games at the end of a season, but in 06, he played six games for the M's, and the only reason I remember him is because I saw him live in a couple games, but he was once a top 12 pick that just did not pan out. 00:41:23 Speaker 1: Because we give Jeff Clement so much crap. I don't... Joe Borcher should be up there too. I mean, yeah, he had a career negative one and a half war in the big leagues. Not great. 00:41:36 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was really a tough draft class. I mean, Adam Wainwright was in this draft class, but he was also drafted by the Braves. So it wasn't even really like the Cardinals that got him. They traded for him later. That was not a good draft class. Not great. 00:41:49 Speaker 1: The fact Rocco got 10 years in the big leagues out of that draft class is pretty good. 00:41:53 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Rocco's career was fine. He had 10 career wins. He was a career 766 OPS player. He had a fine career. Like 10 years in the big leagues is nothing to shrug about. That's for sure. 00:42:04 Speaker 1: Again, given where he started from. 00:42:06 Speaker 2: Yeah, he just doesn't get put in a team hall of fame. That's all. I will say, I think whoever the Mariners hire, as we start to wrap this up, I think by default TJ and I are just going to be their biggest fans on planet earth. I think legitimately whoever they hire, unless it's Tony La Russa, essentially, unless, unless they make, unless they make some just absurd hire, which I don't think they could possibly do at this point. I think we're just going to by default be the biggest fans of them in the world. I think we're going to be the biggest Rocco fans on planet earth. If they hire Rocco Baldelli, just because we're going to be so fired up for new leadership. 00:42:47 Speaker 1: And, One press conference is going to be like, wow. 00:42:51 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. This is the greatest thing ever. He didn't say anything that noteworthy, but he was clear cut, concise, delivered a message. It's like, this guy's the greatest ever. It's going to be great. 00:43:02 Speaker 1: Can you believe we had to sit through that this season? 00:43:05 Speaker 2: Just insane. I can believe it. Like, look at who we're talking about. Look at the org we're talking about. Like, I can believe it. Like, I haven't brought it up yet, but when we record on Tuesday, it's going to be a certain anniversary. And I feel like we're going to need to pay a certain ode on Tuesday. You know what the anniversary is. Oh, yes, I do. And I'm sure some people listening know what the anniversary is. I will now never forget October 20th. It will be ingrained into my stupid head for the rest of time until they actually make slash win a World Series. But we can get to that on Tuesday. 00:43:46 Speaker 3: Okay. 00:43:47 Speaker 2: Okay now last last last thing i promise now that we're talking about the postseason and we're talking about the raise by default because of rocco yandi diaz is going with quite the aura gamble after winning game five did you see what he said. 00:44:00 Speaker 1: I did yeah it said it will be it will be over after game six. 00:44:05 Speaker 2: He said he said it all ends tomorrow uh I hope he's right. I hope he's right. Because I was sitting there thinking about Kevin Millar's famous quote now, where he said, don't let us win one. Back in 04, when they went down 3-0, don't let us win one, because if we win one, we get to Pedro, and then we get to Schilling, and then anything can happen in game seven. But if social media existed to the level it does now, if it had existed like that back then, is Kevin Millar really coming out and saying that? I feel like the answer might be no, because then you know... I don't know, because then if you're wrong and you get swept, that's bulletin board material for everybody, especially Yankees fans, forever moving forward. 00:44:47 Speaker 1: But then again, Pedro is bulletin board material without social media the year before. 00:44:54 Speaker 2: With Who's Your Daddy? Yeah, with Who's Your Daddy. 00:44:56 Speaker 3: Yeah. 00:44:58 Speaker 2: Now, that was during the game, right? Was that during the game? As CJ tries to battle through sickness? 00:45:05 Speaker 3: Um. 00:45:07 Speaker 1: No, I thought that was in an interview. 00:45:09 Speaker 2: Maybe it was post-game. Okay. Well, people are just a little more careful about what they say now because anything can turn into a meme. I'm going to. 00:45:17 Speaker 1: Turn a question back at you. What will be a worse look? Is it going to be the Yanni quote or someone posting a video from the Raze watch party at the Trop where, I shit you not, there were maybe 20 people there? 00:45:31 Speaker 2: That's not good. I just, again, like, I don't even... feel good about dunking on that because I just feel bad like the Rays are such a good team I mean look they don't spend anywhere close to enough but they're so competitive every year for the most part and they just don't get fans to show up I just feel bad like that that place should be filling up at a time like this I just feel bad it. 00:45:51 Speaker 1: It is hard it's it's pretty hard to get yeah turnout and for a Florida or Arizona baseball team. 00:46:00 Speaker 2: Right uh the Diamondbacks turn out much better than the Rays do Kind of. Better than the Rays. 00:46:07 Speaker 1: Yeah, better than the Rays. Florida is by far the worst for attendance. 00:46:10 Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, if we were to look at here, I'm looking at attendance numbers right now for 2026. The Diamondbacks ranked 17th, so right about the middle of the league. Tampa's 28th at 17,000 a game. 00:46:23 Speaker 1: States with a lot of transplants, it's a little difficult. 00:46:27 Speaker 3: Right. 00:46:27 Speaker 1: A lot of retired folks, a lot of folks... moving there from different states with already having allegiances who just want warm weather. 00:46:35 Speaker 2: Yeah, most people in Florida are Yankees fans, not Rays and Marlins fans. 00:46:39 Speaker 1: Or Red Sox fans, yeah. Yankees, Red Sox, pick your Northeast team. 00:46:43 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mentioned the Rays are 28th in attendance. The Marlins were 29th. Yeah, it's just hard. It's just a hard thing. But again, I think nowadays people are a little more careful what they say in press conferences now. Now, it's balanced out with I think athletes are as personable and as charismatic as ever before because they know the value of the positive side of social media. But they can also be careful of points because they know there's always cameras. Anything can get out on social media. Anything can spread like wildfire. And look, if the Rays win this thing, especially if they win on Monday, Yandy's going to be sitting back looking pretty as ever. He's going to be like, man, did I call my shot in a good way? But if the Guardians come back and they win the next two, it's going to be quite the quote. 00:47:27 Speaker 1: He just feels confident. He knows Gavin Williams ain't starting until game seven. 00:47:31 Speaker 3: Sure. 00:47:33 Speaker 2: Now, I will say, if the Guardians win the next two, I'll end on this. If the Guardians win the next two, and then Rays fans are pissed at Yandy for trying to call his shot and having it fall flat, I will say this. You run him out of town, Yandy, I got a one-way plane ticket as far away from Tampa as humanly possible for you to land this winner, and that would be in Seattle, Washington. Your boy, Randy, he won't be here anymore. Come on down. You don't have to deal with them. 00:48:03 Speaker 1: And it's like, your quote looks bad, but it will be forgotten behind the whole Meritor's franchise. Like, welcome to the team. 00:48:12 Speaker 2: Great. Again, doesn't have to deal with Randy. For those that need a refresher again, those two do not get along. 00:48:19 Speaker 1: Yanni, most players on this roster as well also blew a 3-2 lead. Why? 00:48:24 Speaker 2: What happened? 00:48:25 Speaker 3: Oh, no. 00:48:25 Speaker 2: We're saving it for Tuesday. I forgot. We're saving it. We're saving it. 00:48:29 Speaker 3: All right. 00:48:29 Speaker 2: That just about wraps up this edition of the Marine Liar Podcast. You guys know the drill. If you want to listen to the full-form podcast, you can do so wherever you get your audio pods. Make sure to download if you're listening. Go rate and review. Leave it five stars. It really helps if you do. Go hit subscribe on YouTube. You can also find everything at our website, which is at marinelayerpod.com. Our episodes are there. Patreon's there. Go get your podcast merch, which is all at our website there, too, from sweatshirts to long-sleeve shirts to short sleeves, whatever you desire, hats. It's all there. And then find us on social media, which is at marinelayerpod across all platforms. That's TJ. I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon.