Episode 61: Wrapping Up The 2023 Season and Jerry Dipoto Postseason Presser Reaction

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number sixty one of the Marine Layer Podcast. We'll wrap up the twenty twenty three Mariners season Jerry Depoto, Justin Hollander, and Scott Service at a press conference today or react to some of the things they said, Cal's comments in the final weekend of the season and Ty France going to drive line. Wow, how about that? 00:00:19 Speaker 2: Before we start the show, reminder to you guys, our listeners. If you're listening on our audio platforms, make sure to go check us out on YouTube. We've got a video side to the podcast. Make sure to like, comment, subscribe, turn the notification bells on over on our YouTube channel. And if you're watching on YouTube, listen to us too when you're driving in the car, taking a walk on the audio side of things on Apple, Spotify, Google, and Amazon, follow us, download our episodes, leave us a five star review. Really, the reviews the downloads help us out a ton, so take a couple extra seconds to do that. Then follow us on social media. We'll be active there all off season. We're not taking a break. Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube shorts at Marine Layer Pod. 00:01:00 Speaker 3: Get it rolling, and. 00:01:12 Speaker 1: We welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast network, recording here on Tuesday, October third, and for the first time in six months, we don't have to schedule the podcast around a baseball game. I couldn't think of anything sadder. 00:01:31 Speaker 2: I wish we were scheduling it around a baseball game. I thought they were supposed to be playing in October this year, at least that's what we thought at the start of the year. 00:01:39 Speaker 1: Yeah, we would have been a lot more tense today, we would have been doing our first post game of the playoffs, but instead it was the other four teams playing from the American League today and kind of an empty feeling, kind of empty with the only thing we have to pay attention to today was a press conference, which we'll talk about later on in this episode. We have some other things we'd like to get to first, but couldn't think of a more on brand way to kick off the off season. 00:02:09 Speaker 2: It's an empty feeling, But let's be real. Shouldn't we be immune to this by now? This is all we've known our whole lives. I know, last year they broke the drought, but we didn't lose what this feeling felt like, did we? We We've gotten used to this. 00:02:22 Speaker 1: And we also haven't lost the feeling of being eliminated on the second to last or the last day of the season. Now officially, as of this weekend, the Mariners for the fourth time in ten seasons, have been eliminated from the playoffs on either Game one sixty one or Game one sixty two. That's remarkable. That's to be in it until the last two days of the season is a remarkable talent. And you know, I got to give this group credit for coming through and doing that for the fourth time in ten seasons. Isn't like no fan base should have to suffer through that once, let alone four times in ten seasons. But here we are. 00:03:05 Speaker 2: And there were true moments in those first three at seasons where they missed in game one sixty one or one sixty two, one sixty one. I mean, I remember being at that game in twenty fourteen, Logan Morrison hit the game tying double. It made it one to one, which by the way, was against what basically was a triple A. Angels roster Mike Trout was taken out of the game in that one, and they barely won, but they won and then lost in one sixty two. That Nelson Cruz homer in Game one sixty one to twenty sixteen was one of the most electric moments to go for absolutely nothing in well, certainly in Mariner's history. And in twenty twenty one you had Mitch Haniger with a five RBI night and the single to take the lead in the eighth inning. I guess retake the lead wasn't the case in twenty twenty three, Game one sixty one and twenty twenty three you had Luis Castill go out there and put up his worst start as a Mariner. 00:03:56 Speaker 1: You had it all set up for for glory. You had a Rangers bullpen day, one of the worst bullpens in baseball, with your ace going on the mound, and if you looked at the box scory, you would have thought the roles were flipped in that the Mariners were throwing a bullpen day and the Rangers had their ace on the mound. The Mariners were shut out until the eighth inning of a solo home run, were not hitting the ball very hard throughout the night against the Rangers' bullpen. They didn't put together many good at bats, and that, you know, led to another elimination on Game one sixty one, where they didn't get eliminated with that loss specifically, but then later on that night in the clubhouse, watched the Astros win down in Arizona, deflating only to set up lyle one of the greatest Mariners moments of the twenty twenty three season, George Kirby ripping off one of the nastiest knuckleballs you will see. I mean, talk about a dude who comes in throwing ninety nine and all of a sudden, in honor of the late Tim Wakefield, grabs a knuckleball grip and really just chucks it, and it was nasty and he got to swing and miss out of it. So at least we got that moment. 00:05:09 Speaker 2: It's funny. It feels like when guys throw knuckleballs, it's just about the only thing they throw. And you think about guys like Wakefield, like ri Dicky. There's not a lot of pitchers in baseball who, oh, five to eight percent of the time will mix in a knuckleball. You just don't see that. George Kirby apparently had been working on a knuckleball for a while now. He hadn't thrown it in a game until on Sunday, And yeah, it wasn't like one of those knuckleballs that just sat over the middle of To play one of those things, it's like, oh, I'll attempt to throw a pitch, we'll see what happens. No, Like, that thing had bite and sizzle on it. That thing got Corey Seeker good. 00:05:45 Speaker 1: And that was a hard knuckleball too. You are knuckleballs usually in the mid seventies, are they aren't They usually a few ticks slower than that. 00:05:52 Speaker 2: I feel like they're usually in the seventies. I feel like that's what I remember Wakefield being. 00:05:56 Speaker 1: Hmm okay, well regardless, George Kirby continues the trend of picking up a pitch and immediately being great at it. It comes back to when he learned his two seamer. Robbie Ray was trying to master his two seamer in the bullpen and George just like, oh, yeah, let me try that and rips off. Robbie said, one of the nastiest pitches he's ever seen, and Robbie threw his hands up in the air, was like, what the fuck was that? That's just not fair. So now George Kirby ends the season with seven different pitches and a really nice way for George to go out to six shutout innings against the Rangers. The Mariners win a meaningless game one sixty two at home. There is more disappointing things to talk about with this final stretch of the season. Do you have any where you would like to start? 00:06:46 Speaker 2: Well, I think we're gonna end up circling back to the things we've been talking about on the last few shows. Bryce Miller and Bryan lou just weren't good enough. The offense fell flat when the team needed a most. I think those are the two big ones. But you want to throw in another element here, it's the East Castillo. Here's the guy that's supposed to be your ace. You paid him like that, you put him at the front of your rotation for that exact reason, and he had not one, but two just clunkers when they needed him the most. He had no command. In that Saturday start against the Rangers in one sixty one. He gave up five walks, he lasted two and two thirds. He threw almost ninety pitches in less than three innings. That is not good. But if he even wins one of those starts, the script could have been flipped. If he wins that Monday game against the Astros, We're sitting here telling a different story right now, because one more win against the Astros does a whole lot of difference. But Luis gave up five runs and six innings against Houston and that start he just didn't have it again. And if the Mariners Ace had pitched like the ace they've known him to be since they acquired him, it's a different story right now. But that wasn't the case. Louis didn't have it. 00:07:50 Speaker 1: The whole roster wasn't great the final ten days. But your two marquee players, the two guys you had labeled the most on the roster as stars by both con tracked and visibility on the field, Castillo and Julio Rodriguez both disappeared the final ten days. You couldn't find them. If you were looking for the star version of those players, they weren't to be found those final ten games of the season. So I have Castillo's two clunkers, five innings, eight hits, five earned runs against the Astros, two and two thirds, four earned five hits, five walks against the Rangers. And then there's Julio's five final ten days cover years forty six WRC plus striking out thirty four percent of the time in the stretch they needed him the most in the season. He was absent, unfortunately in the at the plate in multiple big spots and wasn't coming through, wasn't driving in those runs, the Mariner Steed and games where they had opportunity to win, especially those first handful of games down in Texas in that first three game series. Julio was not to bail him out, and. 00:09:02 Speaker 2: He's the poster boy for the whole offense over the final ten games. He didn't hit tay Oscar, certainly did not hit Cal did not hit Gino. Over that ten game stretch could have been much better. Your four most impactful bats SAMs, JP, Crawford just didn't show up. JP couldn't do it all on his own. He tried that Grand Slam on Friday, and the rest of the stretch he had at the end of the year here was unbelievable. His whole season was unbelievable. But he couldn't do it on his own. We saw that. Look at Luis's two starts. Look he was not good in those outings. But he got two total runs of support in those two outings against the Astros and the Rangers. Kitlin games like that, it's on him and it's on the offense. Yeah, and Julio was the poster boy. 00:09:46 Speaker 1: And I want to zoom out a little bit to the entire months of September and October, said, the entire month of September and the first day of October, which I will encapsulate as the final month of the season. We got to the first of September, Mariners were in first place, and we're like, okay, well, this team is one good month away from making the playoffs, potentially winning the division. They know what's in front of them. They have good teams in front of them. They need to play well, and they need to need to be balanced and all of that to make the playoffs. 00:10:18 Speaker 3: Well. 00:10:18 Speaker 1: Over that stretch the Mariners now finished that twelve and eighteen. They're thirteenth in baseball in ERA twenty, fourth in pitching f War twenty first, and fifth fifteenth in strikeout rate on the mound. Then on the hitter side, they were eighteenth in f WAR twentieth in slugging twenty fifth, and on base percentage nineteenth in WRC, plus twenty first in walk rate and twenty fourth in strikeout rate. A team wide failure over the final month of the season is the reason they didn't make the playoffs. 00:10:51 Speaker 2: Straight up, pitching was their strength all year, didn't show up. Their bats were red hot and augus even past the All Star break that second half of July they started to cook. Didn't happen in September, and even the bullpen wasn't as sharp as it had been for most of the year. It's the truth. When all three facets of your team are failing all at once, that's not going to result in success, and we saw it. They didn't make the playoffs as a result. Not to mention, while they should have done it on their own, they didn't get any outside help either. The Diamondbacks got swept in the last weekend of the year by the Astros Arizona. Having multiple chances to win those Friday and Saturday games, they didn't do it. So everything combined just felt like the tides had turned against the Mariners for the good. Everything went wrong for Seattle and they got no outside help, and that's why they're sitting where they're sitting right now. 00:11:44 Speaker 1: A couple things. We can end this on a positive note, just highlight now that the season is concluded, some things that were great. They really were great. Julio still was great. He's a given though, so I left him off this list. I think when you give a guy a seventeen year contract, that kind of speaks for itself. Can we just admire it the conclusion now of JP Crawford's season, the first Mariner in history to lead the American League in walks ever forty seven years of the Seattle Mariners, JP Crawford is the first in Mariner's history to lead the league walks, finished with five Baseball Reference war despite only playing one hundred and forty five games, a near eight over eight hundred ops, nearly twenty home runs, all while playing shortstop. Everything the Mariners could have asked out of JP Crawford this season. He did had his moments at the end of the season, and again, as we said, the team just did not pick him up, but really just credit to JP. And then George Kirby and Logan Gilbert both over three Baseball Reference wins above replacement. George nearly got to four both nearly through two hundred innings. When you draft guys in the first round want two hundred inning arms, and by next season both of them will be two hundred inning arms. And that was I would say that the real positives from this season in terms of best case player development, you got those out of those three. 00:13:16 Speaker 2: JP Crawford was once a top three prospect in baseball. Maybe that's dwelled on some Mariners fans, maybe it hasn't, but JP Crawford, for the first time in his career this year looked like the guy that was once a blue chip prospect in the game. You put up a five war and hit the way he hit this year, and get on base the way he got on base. That's who he was once projected to be. And between going to drive line, between just getting a little bit more powerful, between his approach getting that much better everything, he looked like that guy and he was this year. That was as much of a step forward as anybody could have dreamed of JP Crawford taking here in twenty twenty three. And the hope is he just continues it moving forward here and you would hope that he would. 00:14:02 Speaker 1: I think we could agree that the biggest step we hope for JP is his defense. Like that's it. 00:14:11 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's still got to get better. 00:14:12 Speaker 1: Yeah, it does. We'll get into that more. Our grades are coming up starting next week, we will go like infielders, outfielders, starters, relievers, et cetera. 00:14:24 Speaker 2: So four different shows starting next week, we'll do a show for really yeah starter, Sorry, We'll do a show for infielders, then a show for outfielders, then a show for starters, then a show for relievers. And we'll have some guess mixed in there too. So we will give season grades to all these guys for the years old and JP will certainly get a good grade, but we'll dive into him even further once we get to that point. But yeah, overall, you couldn't be more thrilled with what he did this year. 00:14:50 Speaker 1: Absolutely, were you gonna talk about this presser now? 00:14:54 Speaker 2: I guess it's about that time. I guess the last thing I was gonna put a bow on with the season concluding. If you just want a little nugget here is this is the fourth time in the last full in the last five full seasons that the Mariners won eighty eight or more games, which really, as a whole is not a bad franchise and not a bad string of success. The problem is it's resulted in one playoff appearance. They need to do more. Absolutely, there has also been bad luck sprinkled in there. Twenty twenty one, you win ninety games, You think that would get you in a lot of years eighty eight wins would get you in. Hasn't happened. So the Mariners have had some good seasons for the last five full years, but only one playoff appearance, and ultimately, that's all people are gonna remember. They're not gonna remember getting unlucky. They're not gonna remember just falling short and taking that as a win. They're gonna say, no, you've got to make the postseasons. So what comes next is how are you gonna build on that, which maybe transitions to this press conference here where we may or may not have gotten a little bit of a peek behind the curtain on what that could look like. Yo. 00:15:58 Speaker 1: I'm glad Jerry came out and talked today, And I guess my comment about that is you mentioned good seasons. Yes, I don't think anyone is denying the season was good. But when you start the season with a hype video with a sentence written on the whiteboard that says win it all. I think people have an expectation beyond good, which is why some people in the fan base view this season as a failure. And Jerry Depoto addressed that. 00:16:29 Speaker 2: Yeah he did. And for reference, this could be an outlier. But the Braves won eighty eight games in twenty twenty one, right when they won the World Series, they were only an eighty eight win team. 00:16:38 Speaker 1: They did. And if we're talking about franchise luck, right, the Mariners the last three seasons winning eighty eight or more games and making the playoffs ones is unlucky. Absolutely it is. I think back to what was that the six Saint Louis Cardinals won eighty one games or eighty two and won the World Series. That doesn't happen to every franchise. Not every franchise can make the playoffs and have everything break their way. That the Mariners of a franchise have made the playoffs five times in forty seven seasons. If they were a lucky franchise, they would have made the playoffs more often than that one hundred percent. But there also comes to a point where you realize, okay, well, maybe let's we could be a little safer and win more than ninety games and assure ourselves a playoff spat. 00:17:31 Speaker 3: We're not. 00:17:31 Speaker 1: If the Mariners had won ninety eight games and missed the playoffs any of these seasons, I think we would have a right to bitch at it. One hundred percent ninety eight games and you missed the playoffs, that would be absurd. But we're not talking about that. We're talking about a team that has won about fifty four to fifty five percent of its games, which is good. People want great. 00:17:53 Speaker 2: Fifty four percent. That was a popular number in today's press conference. We're going to get into all that before we do. Quick from our friends over at Pigotcha's Pub eighty five in Kirkland, east of four oh five. Got some great parking, it's got some of the best pizza you could find, it's got twenty two TVs in the place, some great drinks, great hangout environment. And just because the Mariners are done doesn't mean baseball's done. There's plenty of baseball games going out throughout the month of October during the day too, So if you want to watch them baseball games or really any sporting event you could think up, go over to Pagatcha's Pub eighty five and do so. And if you go during the day, they've got some awesome happy hour specials Monday through Friday two to six pm. Happy Hour over at Pigotcha's Pub eighty five. They've got three dollars Domestic Beers four dollars, Manny's Blue Moons, four dollars, Mac and Jack's four dollars, Wells four dollars Housewines. That's over at Pigotcha's Pub eighty five in Kirkland. Make sure to go check it out. We can't recommend it enough. 00:18:52 Speaker 4: This fall, stream your favorites and discover more with Disney Plus, Hulu and ESPN Plus together. Watch the highly anticipated new season of Loki and see the ghost materialize in Haunted Mansion on Disney Plus. Catch more frights with The Boogeyman, an American horror story Delegate on Hulu and on ESPN Plus. Get into the action with college football and NFL. All of these and more streaming now. Get to Disney Bundle with plans starting at nine to ninety nine a month, plans with ESPN Plus starting at fourteen ninety nine a month. Terms apply. See Disney Bundle dot Com for. 00:19:29 Speaker 2: Details onto this press conference. I think there were some quotes that stood out to people. I went and listened to it in person and got to sit in for it, and there were certainly a few things that stood out. There's a lot of ways we can go about this. I think where we should start is probably cal Raley because it all comes together between the quotes he had in the final weekend and what Jerry's thoughts on them were in the press conference today. So's just dive into that a little bit. Cal Raleigh on Saturday, after the Mariners were eliminated, talk to the media while also on camera, by the way, talking about, Look, we need to go out and get more impact pieces. He said, we need to get better. We need to go out and get big time hitters, big time pitchers. You see the team across from us. He was mentioning the Rangers. He was referencing the Rangers, who had just clinched a playoff spot that night. Cal said they spend as much as anybody this past offseason. Look where it got him. He said, we need to start doing that. He called out the front office and ownership publicly and directly to the media. On Sunday, he retracted some of it. He issued an apology statement. I think the biggest reason for that is he didn't want to seem like a sour apple to his teammates and seem like he was throwing anybody under the bus. So I think he felt like he was obligated to say something. But he said, I'm not going to apologize for wanting to win. My goal is to win a World Series. The city deserves it, the fans doesn't it. And I think we can both speak and say I don't think cal Raley said anything wrong. If anything, people should be fired up with what he said. Your player should be motivated to want to win, and he is. 00:21:13 Speaker 1: And the other guys they talked to in the clubhouse, Tye Logan JP all had his back. I'm wondering how long has this been brewing for cal because he doesn't just say these things. He didn't just think of when the Astros got eliminated. Oh yeah, I'm gonna say this. No, he has had this on his mind if the scenario came about, to say this to the media if possible. Because the context of all the situation, not many people wanted to talk after Game one sixty one on Saturday, a lot of the guys dispersed to their corners of the clubhouse after the Astros won down in Arizona and weren't talking to the media. Cal stuck around. Cal was ready to talk. He knew what he was gonna say on his mind. And is he wrong? No, no, he's not. And the way you frame his apology makes a little bit more sense. I thought his apology was so weird because he starts it by apologizing, saying, let my emotions get the best of me and all this. Then says, oh, actually, but I don't apologize for wanting to win, which was the entire reason he said that statement in the first place. 00:22:22 Speaker 2: It honestly didn't even really sound. 00:22:24 Speaker 1: Like an apology because Cal made his feelings known and whether he apologizes or not, that's what he thinks. And that's what the leaders in that clubhouse think. And I think this team believes they did not have enough to go out there and win. And it showed in September when they had to play some good teams and they needed to rely not just upon their stars, but the other guys on the roster, and it wasn't there. And they could see that happening right in front of them and they watch what could potentially be a division title slip through their fingertip. Does that make much sense? I think that makes sense definitely. 00:23:04 Speaker 2: I think we both agree that cal was in no place of wrong in terms of what he said. Again, I think the reason he issued the apology is I think internally he probably started to worry and say, how are my teammates going to react to this? Am I going to seem like the bad guy? Is it going to seem like I'm calling people out? Is it going to seem like I'm not appreciative of some of my teammates, especially because cal Raley has now already looked at as one of the leaders on this team. I think he felt obligated. The flip side to this is are people now going to look at him and say more what you're saying in the sense of this looks forced. It makes it seem like somebody pressured him to do this and he did it unwillingly. So it is again you could take either side to this. Again, I just think he wanted to make sure there wasn't a bad rift in the clubhouse, and that's what he was trying to protect. But Cal is right with what he said. They do need to get better. They need more bats. And look, this wasn't coming from Tommy La Stella. Cal RALEI, you want to talk about guys taking steps, He took another huge step this year. He got even better behind the plate. At the plate, he hit more homers. You could see the power just continuing to blossom. Cal Raley is every right to say I'm doing my part. I think the front office needs to do theirs. An ownership needs to do theirs. Logan and JP were talking about the same thing. We've got a corp here, we have guys here who are ready to win, who can contribute. We're just asking for a little more help, a little bit more from the outside to get this team over the top and help out because again you have the nucleus of this team doing what they're supposed to be doing. They have built such a good core. They've just got to add a little bit more, especially on the offensive side of the ball. 00:24:43 Speaker 1: And I think offense is exactly what he's talking about. He used the quote, we need big time hitters and big time pitchers. Well, the Mariners have acquired big time pitchers. They traded for Luis Castillo, and they signed a reigning Cy Young Award winner, along with developing two of their first round picks and two of the time twenty twenty five pitchers in the American League. So that's not really the issue there. I Cal's when Cal looks across the way. In the quote, he said, it's like you look at the team across the way and look at what they've done with their roster and going out and acquiring blue chip talent. You know, they've they've made it now. Well, the two main acquisitions they made, the two biggest names were both bats and both infield bats and Cal, you know, like, we know what the roster lacks, and they lack bats. And that's what I see with that and to his like to his his winning thing. I think the way we've framed it is generally, but I mean Cal specifically in this quote says, you know, we've been right at this ninety win mark for a few years now. We've just got to be better than ninety wins because he understands, like the rest of us do, that ninety wins every season doesn't cut it. It just doesn't. And he's as frustrated everyone. You put in a full season of work thinking that you can make the playoffs, but you just don't have the horses to do. So it's got to be so frustrating for months and months and months of work just to not pay off. 00:26:13 Speaker 2: I will say there is one third blue chip acquisition the Rangers made. He just barely played and it was on the pitching side, right in Jacob the ground right. But yes, the two main acquisitions they made are infield bats who have been massive impact guys. And by the way, over the last two years, those are the best two free agent bats period that have been the best bang for their buck in terms of their contract. Because obviously there's always all these Mariners fans that say spend money. That's spend money that and look, we think the Mariners should spend money, but it doesn't mean irresponsibly spend money. Because you know what, it's easy to say, oh, just go get Semian and Seeger. Well, you could have gone and got Trevor's story in Sander Bogart's That would have been spending a lot of money, and those guys aren't really living up to it. So there's a balance to this, right. 00:27:00 Speaker 1: There's another thing too, which I thought just odd timing. I don't know if Kyl saw this or not, but Corey Seeger's postgame interview with Ken Rosenthal where he specifically credited the Rangers organization in front office and said, Hey, those guys went out and spent and added the things we needed to come out here and do what we've done and make the playoffs, specifically after eliminating the Mariners. That's what Corey Seeger said on national television, and a man didn't make the rounds on Mariners Twitter. But it was almost too coincidental of Corey Seeger saying that and then Cayl Rowly's saying, yeah, actually we need to do that too. 00:27:47 Speaker 2: Maybe it was Kyle Seger just running a total scheme from way beyond enemy lines. He told Corey to say that in front of the camera, and then he actually told cal to say what he said in front of the camera, just as his way to circle back to the organization and try to throw him under the bus. 00:28:04 Speaker 1: He's got a massive group chat go and he's got JP in there, he's got Tie in there, he's got Logan in there, all the guys who backed up who backed up Cal Rawley. That would be quite something. I think we both thought that when we saw that, But it's an interesting coincidence of that's what Corey said and that's what Cal ended up saying. And again I'm I'm glad his teammates have his back, even the ones like I don't know if Karl is necessarily talking about ty France. We're talking about ty France now in terms of fringe roster players that we don't know are slam dunk Mariners next year. But even despite that, the guy's still having his back, which is good. And then we get to today or Jerry, did you have something else you wanted to Dad? 00:28:51 Speaker 2: Oh, I was just going to talk about just a little bit more with this this cow quote in terms of yeah, because we'll get to the press conference here in a second, but oh, there was something else I was going to bring up before you were kind of on that last bit here. If I remember it, I'll come back to it. But we can get to the press conference part of it here, because Jerry Depoto was asked about Cal's comments today in terms of what did you think about what he said? And this wasn't really one of the quotes that totally stood out because Jerry said, look, I think all players are entitled to their opinions. I think cal Raley is more than deserving of having an opinion, like all the players should be. And he said I won't begrudge any of them for it. So that wasn't really one of the quotes that stood out. Depoto kind of gave the status quo answer. Scott's Servis gave something a little bit different, and we can talk about that in a minute here too. Oh, I remember what I was going to say about Cal. Last thing here we were talking about, he used the phrase big time pitchers in big time hitters. If Cal really wanted to put it all out there, he should have just gone, we need to sign a guy that's a big time pitcher and big time hitter all in one. 00:29:56 Speaker 1: Without name dropping him so he doesn't get hit with the camp buse charge. 00:30:00 Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. It's like, I don't know who that said person could be. I mean, Luis Torenz does it for us. We could probably use some more guys like him. If there's possibly somebody out there who could it be, I don't know. I'll let the front office decide that, but I just think if there's somebody out there who happens to be a big time pitcher and a big time hitter all in one. We should go sign him. 00:30:18 Speaker 1: Speaking of that two name guy was not mentioned today in the press conference. Now, I have a theory. Is he technically not a free agent till after the World Series? 00:30:29 Speaker 2: I guess so? 00:30:30 Speaker 1: Yeah, well yeah, because that would make more sense because if you're still under contract with the Angels, you can't talk about acquiring him. 00:30:39 Speaker 2: Yeah, that could be. I mean, they talked about Taoscar Hernandez today although he is I guess still under contract with the Mariners, because if what you're saying is right, that, yeah, he's technically not a free agent till after the World Series, you can still talk about your own guy. My theory on it was more along the lines of, and I talked about this today. I put out one of our Layer Talk things on Twitter and our Instagram story if you want to check it out. I talked about if you remember six years ago, the Mariners not only wanted Otani, but they very openly talked about how much they wanted them, Like Jerry was on his podcast talking about it on the Wheelhouse. He was on seven to ten now Seattle Sports talking about it, a lot. There were quotes about it everywhere. He was very open about the fact that they really wanted show hey Otani, and some people believe that might have actually pushed Otani away. So maybe part of it is they are technically not allowed to talk about him yet, which if that's the case, then obviously they were not going to name drop them. However, I think they're also going to be much much more selective and use their words much more carefully this time than they did six years ago, because if that truly pushed Otani away, they don't want to do that again again. I think the Mariners are absolutely going to be in on Otani. I think they are absolutely in on these sweepstakes. Well they get them, we don't know. I think they're going to be in on them. But I don't think they're going to be telling the media that this time. I think they're going to keep things in house. 00:32:00 Speaker 1: I feel like that's a very I don't know how much saying publicly you want him to the media would drive him away. They but think the I think they're that. 00:32:12 Speaker 5: Was kind of reported last time then they down But like Jerry's gonna go on the radio in November and they're gonna be like, so, uh, you guys are interested in Show Hey, right, I mean, what is he gonna say. 00:32:22 Speaker 1: He's obviously gonna say yes. Maybe they just want to buy a billboard in Times Square and put him on, put him in a Mariner's uniform. 00:32:30 Speaker 2: Okay, but okay, so it's funny enough. I was going back and scrolling through some of these very old Wheelhouse podcast episodes because I remember how much they talked about him extensively on those. I'm sure now when Jerry gets asked these questions about Show Hey, he's gonna say, look, he's an incredible talent. I think all thirty teams would love to have show Hey Otani on their team. We're gonna do what's best for this ball club. We'll be very open and talks with several different players, whether that's trade, free agency, et cetera. He's gonna use answers more like that. I went back and listen to some of those Wheelhouse episodes, and he was talking about they had set up a meeting with him. They talked about what their sales pitch to him was going to be. They talked about they had this whole PowerPoint presentation for him. They talked about all the people they brought in, They talked about they had this like two hundred page booklet for him that they made. They like really really went in on details about how much effort they were putting into trying to get show Heyotani. And for those that are curious, if you go back and listen to these very early Wheelhouse podcast episodes, he talks about it. And this is what I'm getting at. I don't think they're gonna do that again, because I think that drove Otani away a little bit, not one hundred percent, but I do not think that helped in trying to get him to Seattle. And that's what I'm getting at. 00:33:40 Speaker 1: They're still going to do all those things. In case you're worried, They're probably gonna do that, and then some in their sales pitch meeting to him, but they won't disclose it to the public. What other of these viral instances that Jerry had today should we touch on? 00:33:56 Speaker 2: Well, there was well I was gonna say, there's a couple, but before we get to totally changing the subject, while cal Raley's still not too far in the rearview mirror, do we want to talk about it all about what Scott said about him, because it was a little bit different than what the POTO said about him. 00:34:11 Speaker 1: Well, I didn't hear that one. 00:34:13 Speaker 2: Scott's service, Well remember on saying it wasn't today in the press college. 00:34:16 Speaker 1: Was I thought you Revere in the press conference? I did. I did hear what Scott said Sunday about him, which I thought was interesting, to say the least. He Scott's general premise was, you know, guys sometimes lose their emotions, and you know it's part as growing as a ballplayer, you know how to control those emotions. I do think some people took that a little bit out of context, saying like Scott was shaming Cal for speaking his mind to the media. They just don't like that stuff getting out of the house. Cal's welcome to think that, but not talking on the record to reporters is. I think what Scott was more going at, and he referenced the unfortunately, which this thing I don't agree with, was referencing the George Kirby situation and referencing Jared Kellmick kicking a water cooler as terms of emotional outbreaks, which I think this was completely different and had absolutely nothing to do with frustration, not the same level of frustration. This was a more methodical, thought out thing that Cal did, So I thought it was interesting, is I think that's how I'll put it. Yeah. Interesting. 00:35:27 Speaker 2: Hey, you told Cal to speak his mine, and I'll say to that is what's necessary is never unwise. Loyal listeners get the reference. So I am mostly in agreement with you on this that this was much different than Kelnick or Kirby. I think what Scott was getting at, as all three of those players had to get in front of the media this year and issue some sort of statement or apology. I think Scott could have done a little bit of a better job separating those guys, because You're right, what Cal said was much more well thought out and articulate than kicking a water cooler or saying I think I should be yanked out of the game after ninety pitches. So it would have been nice to differentiate that a little bit. But I think things were taken out of context a little bit because in that statement on Sunday, and I want to reiterate, Scott didn't comment again on the cow stuff in the Tuesday press conference. This was just on Sunday. Scott said, Look, cal was the first one in my office Sunday morning. We had a long talk about it. He got his thoughts out, I got my thoughts out. Like they settled it. There's not bad beef there, at least as far as we know. I think this is mostly going to be water under the bridge. I just think maybe things were misconstrued a little bit. And yes, Scott could have said, yeah, this is a little bit different than Kell McK and kirby, But I just I don't think it was that big of a deal. 00:36:40 Speaker 1: No, I don't think so either. And again Scott has to talked to media every day, so not everything he says is going to be rosy and perfect and exactly what you want to hear. As we know looking at her replies and mentioned throughout the season, especially here in this final month. If we want to get back to this pressor, there are a couple of very important Do you have one more thing? 00:37:03 Speaker 2: No, I was going to transition it to you and say you can pick your poison. What do you want to start with here in this press conference? 00:37:08 Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about So this is a quote I know a little bit more familiar. I'm going to ask you about Jerry's reasoning for pitching a free agency I don't have that quote memorized, but I do have this one memorized, so we'll start with this one. Jerry feels like the roster and is a very sustainable place is the kind of consensus he gave us. But the way he framed it in talking about this season is that he said this season was a step forward for the team and for the organization because he thought this core went into place. I don't agree the fact that this season was a step forward for this Mariners team. I don't think so. I think a step forward would have been making the American League Championship Series, not losing and getting eliminated in Game one sixty one. That is the reasoning he did. It's a complicated quote, so I'll let you comment on that. 00:38:05 Speaker 2: Look in terms of just team winning and losing. No, they didn't take a step forward in twenty twenty two. They got to the Alds, were close in all three games to beating the Astros, and took away that postseason run where they said, oh, we've got some real stuff to build on here. Going into twenty three, it felt like just the first step twenty twenty three, they didn't make the playoffs. You're right in that way, they absolutely did not take a step forward in terms of winning and losing games. They did not take a step and they're not in the postseason. But Jerry is very smart and articulate about what he says. He doesn't just speak out of his ass. He's not just throwing quotes out there, despite what some people like to think. Jerry's very smart and he's not just saying things to say things. So when he says they took a step forward as a group this year, look by war this was a ninety four win team. Let me say that again, by wins above replacement. The twenty twenty three Mariners were a ninety four win team this year. That is better than they in twenty twenty two. When looking at team more so, I understand what he was saying in that regard. I also understand what he was saying in terms of how many guys took steps this year. Cal Julio, JP, Kirby Logan there's a ton of guys kell Nick, there's a ton of guys that took steps this year. So I understand why people do not like the quote. And maybe he could have phrased it a little bit better. But in terms of saying we took a step forward, there are absolutely ways they took a step forward. Again, they were a better ball club by War than they were a season ago. That's not for nothing. I understand. It's frustrating to not get to the playoffs. We're frustrated. We're sitting here frustrated, we're not happy about it. But we're also looking at the numbers and saying Jerry is not just throwing quotes out there. There's purpose behind it. 00:39:47 Speaker 1: That's all okay, But did they take a step forward this season? 00:39:52 Speaker 4: No? 00:39:53 Speaker 2: Again, as a team, they did not, And that's what I started that with. As a team, just in terms of in terms of winning and losing, they did not, And in terms of wanting to win an Al West, they didn't win enough games to do that. Eighty eight wins a lot of seasons gets you a wildcard spot. It will not get you a division title, I guess, unless you play in one of the central divisions, and even those years, it has to be a down year in the Central AL or NL. 00:40:13 Speaker 1: But yes, yeah, I was gonna say, especially when you come into this season expecting to win the division, and you're expecting to contend for an American League pennant and that's what you think. And it's just kind of annoying to hear the general manager say that after the season is over, like you can always look at individual things and say, yep, that was good. We wanted that to happen. That did happen, So that qualifies as us taking a step forward in what we want to but seeing where the expectations were come April first of this season and said, okay, we're gonna tweet out a video that has us riding on a whiteboard saying win it all with two underlines under it. When it all what does that mean? When the whole fucking thing so to after the season and still say your team took a step forward, when you didn't even make the playoff field wins above replacement or not. It's kind of hard to just come out and say that that's what I think, and I would agree because at the end of the day, wins and losses are all that matters. We can talk about our advanced stats, we love advanced stats, we talk about them all the time, but at the end of the day, if you don't win enough games, it doesn't matter. 00:41:28 Speaker 2: And again, let me make that point more clear, because again I shed a lot in that statement. But yes, by wins and losses, they did not take a step forward. They were in the Alds last year. They did not make the playoffs this year. That is objectively a step back. I just think that for everybody that's so ready to dunk on them, you can be frustrated. I am not saying that quote was perfect, but I'm also saying there was some truth in it. You may not like it, you may not like the way he phrased the quote, but there is some truth in that statement. 00:41:56 Speaker 1: Here's another thing he mentioned. He was using the rationale of building a sustainable product. I mentioned sustainable a little bit before the last one, and we'll bring it back for this one. He says, continues to say their goal is to build a sustainable, decade long product that can contend for a World Series year in and year out. Great love the idea. He was pushing back along the ideas like, Okay, well, we don't want to push all of our chips into win a World Series in one season and force our roster to take a step back for a number of years after that because we weren't good enough to win a World Series. Okay, that's Jerry's philosophy, whether you agree with it or not. Okay, Like I get the idea of building a sustainable roster. But then this I thought was very interesting. He pulls out a number and says, fifty four percent. If we win fifty four percent of our games over a ten year stretch, odds are about ninety percent of the time we'll make it to a World Series in that stretch, which in theory I'm thinking about, Oh, that doesn't sound too bad. But fifty four percent winning percentage on average throughout the years is eighty eight wins. Was what the Mariners did this year. Fifty four percent, that's what they hit this year, and it obviously wasn't good enough. And now Jerry said, Okay, some years you might go five hundred in this stretch. Some years you might win sixty percent of your games, and you just got to pick the right year to go win the World Series with that core. The problem is when Jerry makes that statement and is throwing out a sixty percent mark, they haven't done that, which I think people are a little frustrated at when you're trying to say Okay, well, we're trying to build a window and trying to hit this fifty four percent mark over ten years. Yet all we've done three years in a row is win fifty four and a half percent of our games on average the last three seasons, and that hasn't been nowhere near enough games to give you an opportunity to get in the playoffs, let alone compete for a World Series. So I thought that was a more articulate Jerry quote that he had thought out numbers he wanted to use. I thought that was an interesting set of numbers. 00:44:11 Speaker 2: Fifty four percent win total over a decade, it's probably enough to get you a lot of wildcard berths. And if Jerry's talking about just getting into the playoffs and potentially winning a World Series, yeah, you can make a run as a wildcard team a couple of those years, get into the World Series certainly possible. Fifty four winning percentage is not enough to win a lot of AL West titles, and especially in the new playoff format where six teams get in from each league and two teams get a buy, I think that buy makes a big difference. The Mariners have never had it, so we haven't gotten new experience at firsthand. But I think it makes a big difference. And that's not enough to get the buye. You've got to win more games than that to win the AL West and earn yourself some first round by so you don't have to play in the Wildcard Series and set yourself up for more chances to get to the Fall Classic because you play more games at home. With that first round by, it means you're one of the higher seeds in a favor you a lot more, especially if you get to the World Series and you're one of the higher seeds. Yeah. Look like I said, the Mariners four of the last five full seasons have won eighty eight or more games, and there's bad luck involved there. But if you're talking about really being a powerhouse in the American League and not a fringe wildcard team every year, you've got to win more than fifty four and a half percent of your games. 00:45:28 Speaker 1: Here's the last thing for me, and then I'll let you talk about the free agent quotes he had. He had. This is the one that went by far the most virabl There was a quote, tell me if I'm taking it out of context in any sense, said we're doing the fan base of favor by by having you guys be patient for This is pretty much what Jerry said in terms of we're doing you a favor for you guys, for making you guys be patient to see this sustainable product that we're going to have out on the field. Again, if this quote came out in twenty twenty one, I think people would have less of an issue with it. But I think people are just sick of having the president of baseball operations tell them to be patient. When you've won ninety eighty eight plus games three seasons in a row. What else is there to be patient about? And oh, by the way, this came up right before we started recording. Katie Griggs, the Mariner's president of business Operations as I believe her title, was doing some event before the season started this season and was quoted saying we're done asking you fans to be patient and wait for us to win. Those are your two presidents within the organization saying the exact opposite thing at the exact opposite ends of the season. And I don't know if Jerry remembered that quote. I don't know if you would have said what he said. If Katie Griggs did say it, but he did say it, and that puts everything in h quite a pickle. 00:47:10 Speaker 2: So I will say this one was phrased less than ideally, this one was not phrased well. I will say that this question, when it was originally brought up, did have something to do with the fan base, and it was it had something to do with like fans believing X, Y or Z. So he didn't just randomly bring up the fans. As far as I remember, I think it's somehow tied in. Look, this press conference was over an hour long. I'm trying to remember everything that was said, but if I remember right, it was like it was a question about the fans. So I don't think Jerry just brought that out of left field. While at much it could have been phrased much better, I will say that I think the point he was getting at is he was talking more about if we just tried to go all out to win a World Series year by year on a year by year basis, that's not really a sustainable plan. You want first hand proof of that. You think the Mets and Padres are the model right now, they're not. The Mets just sold off at the deadline despite having the highest payroll in the history of baseball. That's what Jerry's going against. Again, let me say this again. He could have phrased it much much better. But I don't want the Mariners to be the Mets of the Padres. I'm sorry if somebody on payroll Twitter finds us and freaks out, which they probably will, because anybody ever that suggests, oh, they should do anything less than have the highest payroll in baseball and irresponsibly spend money. But I'm sorry, I don't think the Padres and the Mets are the models to win baseball games. What are they doing right now? They're sitting on the couch, just like the Mariners are, with significantly higher payrolls, and both those teams are now talking about having a shed payroll. I think that's what Jerry was getting at. I could have phrased it much better. But if you were a Mariners fan and your take is they should be the Mets and the Padres and just year by year, try to base your whole blueprint around just being irresponsible to win the World Series, because that's what spending that type of money is. It's irresponsible. That's what you're setting yourself up for Jarry doesn't want to do that, and that's not how the Mariners are built. 00:49:10 Speaker 1: No, and he won't do that no matter how much people ask him online to change. This is what Jerry Depoto is now. If Jerry Depoto's way doesn't work for another season, well I think you and I both agree. It's like it's getting to be time for that. Like Jerry's got to start winning, like they we understand what Jerry is doing here and why he's doing it, what the thought process is. He says patience, right, he's saying, patients, you got it. Guy's got to trust in the sustainable product. But if that product's not there next season and good to go and winning over ninety games like that, I think that's a baseline right there, over ninety games next season, then the issues are really gonna come out. And then it's up to see if the people above Jerry Depoto are as serious about winning as they actually are. I think that's what it is. So Jerry's his patients and we'll see how patient they actually are and the people above him are come next season. We'll learn a lot. 00:50:18 Speaker 2: If the Mariners are not in the playoffs next season, let alone make a decent run in the postseason next year, I think there will be questions. I'm not gonna say I lean one way or another because I'm kind of undecided on it. But I think all of a sudden, both Jerry Depoto and Scott's service their seats get a little bit warmer if they're not in the playoffs next year. Certainly, if they're not in the playoffs next year, and if they get balanced in the wildcard round or something like that next year, there's gonna be questions too. 00:50:45 Speaker 1: What did Jerry say about free agents? 00:50:48 Speaker 2: So he was asked in this postgame presser about why do you feel like Seattle is an unattractive market for free agents? And I actually thought this was one of the answers he gave. That was one of his better answers. And maybe some of you've listened and listened to me talk here on this episode and think that I defended all of Depoto's quotes. Again, I am somebody who usually more tends to side with the things to Poto says, and I understand his plan. Despite me also saying that if they don't win next year, he could be on the hot seat. I think what he said about the free agent stuff makes sense, and we've heard about what takes free agents back in the past, is the weather, travel, the ballpark factor, the history of the Mariners, which has not been successful. But Jerry to Poto actually outlined what the last couple of years have looked like. And I think this actually was a decent point because he talked about, look in twenty nineteen, maybe we weren't the most attractive place for free agents. In twenty twenty. Maybe we were not the most attractive place in twenty twenty one, despite being a ninety win team. That roster overperformed, and your best player was Mitch Hanneger, whose WRC plus wasn't that far above league average. But then all of a sudden, you look at twenty twenty two and twenty three, which is when the core really has started to for him. The last two years, you signed Robbie Ray, you traded for Luis Castillo, and then you extended him. Welice didn't have to take that extension. He could have hit free agency starting in a couple weeks here he opted to stay in Julio to the huge extension. Julio did not have to do that. Julio could have played his six years and then just hit free agency. He wants to be here a long time, and that shows his belief in this organization. So when you look at what the Mariners have done the last two years, I think they've started to kind of turn the tides in terms of not just the money they've spent, but how outside players look at this organization. And I think that's a decent enough sample size here to continue to build off of going forward. I don't know what free agency or trades are going to look like this winner, but I think all of a sudden, Jerry said it's not an unattractive place for free agents, and I really am starting. I really believe that, especially what we've done the last couple of seasons, and I think that's a valid point despite what some people like. 00:53:00 Speaker 1: Now. Jerry's welcome to believe that, but I think to get the general consensus among national media, local media, and fans and players for that other players who are not free agents to be sold on that, we need to see ink on paper for hitters in Seattle. If it really is attractive. We'll have to see sometime in the next few years. If they're in the running for a big time hitter and they actually sign him. That speaks more than anything else does. They've shown that they can get pictures. Robbie Ray was a little bit of unique situation, but they did inca reigning Cy Young Award winner. Getting pitchers to pitch in Timobile Park is never that tricky unless they just hate travel, because if they like ballparks to pitch in eighty one games a year, that's the place to go. So until we see results from what Jerry says, it could all be true. But a lot of truth in today's world is belief as well. People need to believe what they're seeing and we haven't seen it. 00:54:07 Speaker 2: Yeah. The other side of this coin is the biggest free agent contract the Depoto regime is given to a hitter is one year seven million bucks to aj Pollock, which overtook one year five and a half million bucks to Nori Ioki. So that is a fair point. I would also say that I think unless you get show Hey this winner, it might be hard to ink a huge free agent bat otherwise because this is not a good free agent class for hitters. 00:54:32 Speaker 1: So it may be this year, it could be any any of the next few years. But some like someone needs to to do the deed to prove it. 00:54:43 Speaker 2: They do, and we'll see if that happens. I just think again, I'm not saying he's perfect, but I am saying that they have spent money successfully over the last couple of seasons and have attracted people. I'll say this again, Luis Cascio did not have to sign an extension here. In fact, I had my doubts if he would. I figured a guy that good would want to test free agency as soon as he hit it. But he bought into what this team was selling and said I want to stay here. So that does go for something. The Julio thing, despite being a rookie when he signed the mega extension, it goes for something. But yes, inking a free agent bat on the free agent market, Yes, would say a lot. 00:55:24 Speaker 1: And I will throw one note in here before we move on to our final segment of this show. Jerry said the payroll is going to go up. I'm gonna add some context to that that the Mariners could sign nobody in the payroll would still go up because of escalators and everyone's contracts. George Kirby, Logan Gilbert getting closer to arbitration, JP Crawford's contract going up, Castillos, Julio Castillo's, Julio's yeah, all those guys like the money goes up, So take it with a grain of salt. When Jerry says, yeah, the payroll is of course going to go up next year, it's like, well, no matter what you do, the payroll is going to go up. So it's the matter of how much the payroll will go up overall. Entertaining afternoon, I would say I was very entertained. I had her I was at work at the radio station, and I had our Twitter account pulled up as you were tweeting out some live quotes and just reading the reactions, not replying, just reading for a couple of hours, and I'll say it was sufficiently entertained. So the people, the people brought their good stuff today. 00:56:30 Speaker 2: They did, and they've really brought it the last couple of weeks. I mean, man, some of these videos we take in the press conferences and media scrums now that we tweet out, they have really started to get some pushback from people. Earlier in the year, it was it was a little more tame. People are just grilling our comments sections all of a sudden, but that's good. 00:56:51 Speaker 1: Please comment as much as possible. We love it. We probably probably won't respond to you if you're nasty, but if you're nice, we might well consider it. Let's hear a little bit from Betterhelp. Is something interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals, regardless if you have a clinical mental health issue like depression or anxiety, or if you're just a human who lives in this world who's going through a hard time. Therapy can give you the tools to approach your life in a very different way. 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Click the link in the description or visit Betterhelp dot com slash Marine Layer Pod. Okay, final segment. The news came out this week that I think everyone has been looking forward to for months. Ty France is going to drive Line. 00:58:19 Speaker 2: I feel like this is about the easiest decision he could possibly make. Is it fair to say that he could really benefit from it. 00:58:26 Speaker 1: Yeah, because he can't do what he did last year and stay on this roster. That's for sure. 00:58:33 Speaker 2: He can't. And they talked about it after the final game on Sunday, Reporters talked to some of the players and one of the things that was reported was JP Crawfords said, I'm planning to go back to drive Line this winter, and he said, look, I'm gonna take Ty France with me. It sounds like ty has every intention to go to drive Line, and from what we gathered from this press conference here today, it sounds like it's his call too. It sounds like he talked to JP about it. They had a good conversation about it. JP sold him on the idea, and now he's gonna follow suit, which is great because we saw the wonders it did for JP this year. Hopefully it can do the same thing for Todd. 00:59:09 Speaker 1: There's one thing I come back to with this. I was kind of poking around Tie's numbers last night and trying to see, Okay, is there one thing JP did extraordinarily well this year that he wasn't doing well was bad at last season? And then what's one thing Ty France is bad at this season that he can do better at next season with more drive line. I think it's simple hitting fastballs. JP Crawford was about a league average hitter against every other pitch this season except fastballs, where his run value was plus seventeen. And if you look back in twenty twenty two, before JP went to drive line, we talked about how bad he was at hitting fastballs negative four run value. Well, he remedied that pretty well here in twenty twenty three, ty France has regressed against four seemers because in twenty one he was play US ten against four seamers and that was a really good offensive season for Tye. And in twenty twenty two he was plus seven at hitting fastballs, another solid offensive season for tie but these season this season it dropped back to negative two. He needs to get back to doing damage against the pitch most guys in baseball do damage against. We could we could dive into this even more of like what ty France needs to get better at, but in terms of like a baseline view of one thing JP Crawford got way better at, and this is another thing that ty France can also get way better at and help him improve in this upcoming season. 01:00:36 Speaker 2: And his lack of success against fastballs is right in lockstep with the way his numbers have regressed over the last few years. Twenty twenty short sample size, but he had a one thirty three WRC plus and an eight thirty six OPS during that COVID season twenty twenty one one twenty nine WRC plus eight thirteen OPS. Still a good year. Like you talked about, he squared up fastball as a bunch that season twenty two went to twenty five WRC plus seven to seventy four OPS. So here we go. It's starting to deteriorate, and then this year with the hard drop off one oh four WRC plus seven to three ops. Yeah, so this roller coaster needs to get back on the upswing. It cannot continue to just be a downward spiral. If ty France is gonna play first base, a position that is supposed to be a premier offensive spot, he's gonna have to get back to the guy he was. Doesn't necessarily have to be the first half of twenty twenty two when he was a top eight to ten hitter in baseball, but more like the twenty twenty one ty France where he was just a really really solid offensive catalyst. Again, a WRC plus in the one twenties. He'll take that every day of the week. But he needs to get back to somewhere around that range, and I think it starts with what you outlined. He's got to hit heaters. 01:01:47 Speaker 1: One thing I thought was interesting too, Jpcity's gonna go to drive line even earlier than he did last year. We thought JP spent a lot of the offseason at drive line, but he says there's still more time he could have spent the last offseason, and he's gonna make up for that time this offseason, he's gonna make sure Ty Franz is there with him. At the same time, it sounds like Ty's gonna It came out that Tie had recently bought some property up here in the Pacific Northwest and was gonna make it more convenient for him to go to drive Line, which is amazing, and I'm Jerry didn't naindrop who else was at who else was going to go to drive line, But it doesn't sound like those are the only two Mariners that are going, which if you know, people say they can't run this roster back, but say they do, I guess the only saving graces if you send them all to drive Line and just cross your fingers that they'll magically turn into the twenty twenty three JP Crawford. 01:02:42 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that I asked Jerry this question today, which funny, I usually don't ask questions and these pressers are media scrumbs. But I knew we were gonna be talking about this today. I knew were gonna talk we were gonna be talking about Ty going to drive line, so I figured it'd be interesting to get some context on it, which a little more nerve racking to ask a question in a Mariner's media setting than when we were covering a SU baseball and we wanted to ask, why does the bullpen continue to falter? Only to get the answer of we were one arm away from going to Omaha. But that's that's a little inside joke for anybody who might have followed ASU baseball while we were there, which you probably didn't, but the context this man ASU's bullpen was bad, and there were be quotes that were thrown out there about it that kind of just made people scratch their heads for every good reason. That's not what happened in this Mariners presser today. Jerry gave us a good answer. When I asked about the question. I said, did you guys have any input on Tye's decision to what it sounds like will be an off season at drive Line? And I figured the answer was no, it's usually a player made decision. But Jerry said the same thing. It was Ty's call. He told us about what his intentions were this winner, and you know, we obviously will let a player do what they think is best for them to do to get better over the course of an off season. But Jerry also said, I don't think ty and JP are going to be the only two guys going to drive Line. So he didn't name drop other guys, but it does sound like there's going to be some more Mariners headed that way, which would be great because there's a lot of guys who could pick up their offense a little bit come twenty twenty four. So if more guys are going to head to drive Line and do what JP did, sign everybody right up, who. 01:04:10 Speaker 1: Do we think it would be? I don't think it would be Jared, you mentioned, because you're he just got his new hitting coach last off season, which helped him have the amazing month of April. I don't think you would tinker with that. Juli drive Line. 01:04:25 Speaker 2: Maybe, although he spends he spends most of his winner either in the DR or in Tampa, so unless he was gonna, I mean, he has a house here now too, so I guess he could say theoretically and go to drive Line. It's possible, but I mean Gino would be a candidate for it, right. This is a guy that needs to slug a whole lot more than he did in twenty twenty three. That could be one. Maybe some of the utility guys, maybe some guys like Dylan Moore or Sam Haggerty would head that way. Maybe Josh Rojas would head that way, right, I mean, I mean it could be a horrible number of guys. Yeah, My guess is it would not be Kellmick because, like you said, he just had this revamp swing and a new hitting coach this offseason, and again he got off to such the great start, and then obviously his his season as a whole was a little bit up and down. The injury had a lot to do with that. But I would bet you he sticks with a similar routine that he did last offseason. There's a number of guys that could go head the way of Drive Line. Who will be and how many others it will be? Tbd? But the more the merrier, because here's the thing about forget the don't forget the pictures. Oh well those guys, well, Logan Gilbert already does stuff at drive Line, So yeah, there could be more pictures going that way. Logan Gilbert does, mattt Matt Brash does, maybe some others will too. It's funny because I want Ty France, just like everybody else, to get back to the way he was in twenty twenty one. Which I feel like, if drive Line did Wonders to this level for JP, why couldn't it be done for Tye Because when you just look at the pure hitter in each of them, I think Ty France is a better pure hitter than JP Crawford. So if dry Line did this much for JP, it makes me just think, well, maybe they could really get Tied back to that all star level. 01:06:08 Speaker 1: Pure hitter like hitting for average or comparing the best version of Ty France to the best version of JP Crawford. 01:06:17 Speaker 2: I guess I guess either. I mean, like when you just talk about when you just talk about, well, I guess power has a little bit to do with it here. 01:06:26 Speaker 1: JP this season slugged nineteen home runs, where you know, to what's Tie's career high with the Mariners? Not many more? 01:06:33 Speaker 2: It's twenty right, right, do you not think Ties a better pure hitter than JP Crawford. I mean again, look what ty did in twenty one. In the first half of twenty two. People called him baby Edgar for a little what do we qualify as a pure hitter? 01:06:48 Speaker 1: Though, Like, if we look at everything JP did well, he struck out three percent below the league average, led the American League in walks hit for the same power as ty France, you know, eight on base percentage, Like, what else do you want your hitter to do? 01:07:07 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, maybe that's a fair point. I guess JP's down season was similar to where Ties were at, where their WRC plus numbers were right around the one oh three to one oh four levels. So maybe they're they're lows were similar and maybe their highs will end up being similar. I will say I think the best versions of ty France were better at the plate than JP. Again, if you just look at the first half of twenty twenty two of ty France, you're talking about a guy that was top ten in the league in WRC plus. And that's what I'm getting at. JP has been phenomenal. He's done wonders for this team. He wasn't ever quite that level of a bat where ty France was at his peak. He was a top ten bat in baseball last year. 01:07:44 Speaker 1: Well, I wouldn't discount JP's last say, three months of the season. He was he was pretty good. But you know, we're just kind of kind of picking over picking over little things here. Regardless, Yeah, the upside of ty France going to drive line is is immense and there are things JP Rawford got better at that Ty France can absolutely get better at going into next season, and it could make all the difference between a league average hitting season and an All Star hitting season. 01:08:10 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And this is not to knock one player or the other. Peak JP Crawford and peak Ty France are both phenomenal ballplayers and both are incredible assets for this team when they're playing at their best. If this is not this is not meant to degrade one or the other. I just think again, when Tie is at his best, that's a really good hitter, that's all. But if they both go to drive line and they both keep making improvements, this offense can look a lot different next year. 01:08:37 Speaker 1: And I'll tell you what, the Mariners could have really used a good version of ty France this season and they didn't get it. 01:08:44 Speaker 2: No, they didn't. Man, that was kind of a jam packed episode. And I'll tell you what, not the most fun episode we've done, just in terms of we have to sit here and stir about how long this offseason is going to be, look back on everything that went wrong this year, how we talked about there was preseason expectations on a whiteboard to win the whole thing, and now they're not in the playoff field, Like, that's not so fun. So oh, we had a lot to get off our chests on this episode, although I will say I think we're gonna have some fun episodes planned moving forward, starting on Friday. By the way, I know we lightly talked about, oh, we're probably gonna do just one show a week in the off season. Well, we made a little bit of a change. We decided let's just keep the two week going because there's a lot we can do in the off season. There's a lot we can talk about. So stay tuned twice a week because we are going to keep doing two shows a week. And on Friday, our first show, our first Friday show of the off season, we're gonna bring our early free agent or sorry not free agent, but early off season wish list. Here to the pot. DJ and I are going to make two separate lists, talk about who are targets we want to see the Mariners go get that could be trade or free agency, and why it makes sense. So we're gonna dive right into off season stuff. What happens when a team doesn't make the playoffs? You start to stir and think about, oh, how can they get better next year? So that's what we're gonna do, and we're going to shoot our two cents about it. 01:10:01 Speaker 1: And we mentioned the two weeks after that will be grades infield outfield, starters and relievers. There will be interviews mixed in as well, and we're going to continue to do our MLB wrap around stuff. We have a lot of playoffs to keep track of. We'll have the results of the wild Card series, I believe by the time we record on Thursday for Friday's episode, which will be nice. We can talk about that. And hey, if there any umpires that make their name known in the playoffs, oh you bet your ass were holding them accountable right here on this podcast. 01:10:31 Speaker 2: Yes we will so. Unfortunately No. 01:10:34 Speaker 1: By the way, dog, did you see that it was official that Angel Hernandez had the lowest correct call percentage of all umpires. 01:10:40 Speaker 2: This year and he only hummed about a third of the season. 01:10:44 Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't that incredible? 01:10:47 Speaker 2: That is incredible. He really doesn't fail to a maze, does he. 01:10:52 Speaker 1: Yeah? Oh my goodness, what he is one of a kid umpire. I don't think we'll ever see another like him again. 01:10:59 Speaker 2: I don't think we will either, and hopefully part of that is because the challenge system gets implemented, so it kind of slashes some of these umpire numbers in half. You would hope, you would hope. So that's our off season plan, at least to start. We're gonna keep rolling throughout the whole off season. Unfortunately, there's gonna be no live Mariners Baseball to continue to talk about until spring training starts in February. But we're not gonna stop talking Mariners. There's gonna be plenty to dive in on. There's gonna be plenty to talk about. Obviously. The off season is gonna be exciting. It's gonna be very pivotal for the Mariners and we're just getting started here. So we're excited to keep going and we're excited to have you along with us. So that'll just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Layer podcast. You guys know the drill. If you want to listen to the full form podcast, you can do so on Apple, Spotify, Google, and Amazon. Make sure to follow us download our episodes, leave us a five star review. Reviews in the downloads help us out a ton. So take the couple extra seconds with that. Watch us on YouTube again. You can hear our expressions on the audio side, but you can't see our facial expressions unless you're watching on you so go do that, like comment, subscribe, turn the notification bells on, and follow us on social media too. Again, we're gonna be active there all off season. We've got a bunch of content banks, We've got a bunch more coming, so we're gonna keep going there. Make sure to follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, and YouTube shorts at Marine Layer Pod. That's TJ. I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. Talk to you soon.