Episode 473: What Trades Could The Mariners And Phillies Make?

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number 473 of the Marine Layer podcast. We'll look into what trades the Mariners in the Philadelphia Phillies could do this offseason and Lyle. There's a certain anniversary today. 00:00:12 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:00:13 Speaker 1: All right. 00:00:13 Speaker 2: Before we get to that reminder to you guys, just make sure you download these podcasts. If you're listening, please leave a five star review. When you review the show, it really helps a ton. If you do. Hit subscribe if you're watching on YouTube. You can also check everything out at our website at marinelayerpod.com. We've got our merch there and our Patreons there, everything. And then follow us on social media. We're on all platforms at marinelayerpod. 00:00:35 Speaker 1: Let's get it rolling. And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network, recording here on Tuesday evening, October 20th. Lyle, it is quite the anniversary indeed. 00:01:03 Speaker 2: It really is. Can you believe that one year ago, October 20th, 2025, we celebrated the greatest day in the history of our fandom as Seattle Mariners fans? It was unbelievable. I mean. 00:01:18 Speaker 1: It's crazy that it was just a year ago. 00:01:21 Speaker 2: One year ago, the Mariners were in Toronto in game seven, took down the Blue Jays and made their first World Series in franchise history. I mean, one year ago today. It was amazing. I mean, we were so much fun that night. I mean, I barely remember it. I mean, we were out celebrating with fans. We're having drinks. We're doing all this jumping for joy and Seattle is electric that night. We had our most fun podcast we've ever done. Dude, it was awesome. It's crazy how that game went down too, right? I mean, you were talking about it before the start of the podcast as we're sitting here reminiscing. Brian Wu got into some trouble in the seventh inning. They tried to let him go as long as he could go. They wanted to see how long he could take them, see if he could bridge the gap. But then he got into some trouble in the seventh and they had to pull the leash on him. And they said, all right, it's Munoz time. It's time for Munoz to get in this game and shut this down. This is a pivot point. This is a turning point in the game. This is Andres Munoz's spot. He cleaned it up. The Mariners won 3-1 and made their first World Series in franchise history. 00:02:32 Speaker 1: What a magical night. I was on the moon. I almost blacked out from how exciting that night was. Just truly insane. Everything that could have gone right that night went right. 00:02:47 Speaker 2: Just blacking out off adrenaline, you mean? 00:02:49 Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, it happens all the time. I mean, I'm sure it happened to some of the players, too. Think of it like if you're Cal or Julio or Brian Wu and all the energy you put into the season and the grind pays off through seven games of the ALCS. I mean, truly magical. All right. 00:03:08 Speaker 2: Can we hang on a second? This is weird. I know we're in the middle of taping a podcast, but I'm getting a call from somebody. Looks like it's one of our fans. I don't know. It looks like a podcast fan. Hello? Yeah, what's up? 00:03:20 Speaker 1: No. What is he saying? 00:03:22 Speaker 2: Wait, are you serious? Hang on. Hold up. 00:03:25 Speaker 1: What's going on? 00:03:26 Speaker 2: No, no, no. Hey, pause for a second. Hang on. Pause. I got to tell TJ. We've got a fan on the phone saying they didn't go to Andres Munoz in Game 7? 00:03:35 Speaker 1: Wait. What? 00:03:37 Speaker 2: You've got to have your facts wrong, pal. I don't know what you're talking about, but that's not possible. We're talking about the Mariners. 00:03:42 Speaker 1: That can't be true. Yeah, no. 00:03:43 Speaker 2: The Mariners are sitting here celebrating the one-year anniversary of making the World Series. Wait, you're saying they didn't make the World Series? No, again, you've got your facts wrong. That can't be right. What do you mean? They went to Munoz in the seventh inning, he shut it down, and they beat the Blue Jays in seven games. Wait, there's no way they went to Edward Bazzardo in that stretch. Buddy, you gotta, I don't know what you're on about right now, but we're gonna talk later. I gotta get back to TJ. All right. 00:04:11 Speaker 1: Wait, Lyle. 00:04:12 Speaker 2: Lyle. 00:04:13 Speaker 1: Yeah? I have some terrible news. Mm-hmm. I just, I went and I Googled Teams to never make the World Series. Because, you know, the Mariners won last year. But Google's telling me the Seattle Mariners are the only team to never make a World Series. 00:04:31 Speaker 2: Well, TJ, I can't believe it. I think our podcast fan that called me just a minute ago, just out of the blue, I can't believe it. I think we've been played. I think he was right. I'm looking at baseball reference in the box score, and they did go to Edward Bizzardo in the seventh inning of that game. I swear that can't be right. 00:04:53 Speaker 1: We really must have blacked out, Lyle. 00:04:55 Speaker 2: Hold up. 00:04:56 Speaker 1: This entire time, we thought we were blacked out off of adrenaline. Instead, we're blacked out off of trauma. All right. 00:05:06 Speaker 2: Yeah. Hang on. He's calling me back again. 00:05:08 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:05:10 Speaker 2: Okay. You might have had some facts, right? So what are you calling back about now? Oh, Dan Wilson didn't provide any explanation or nobody in the organization in general provided any explanation for why they went to Edward Bazzardo in that spot. Like, like nobody had an answer. Oh, Dan Wilson just said, oh, it was his time to pitch. Dude, I don't know. We, we must've, I don't know what's going on in our world the last year, but we must've missed a lot. I don't even know how we're still sitting here doing a podcast if we can't get our facts straight. All right. Well, appreciate you keeping us in line, man. Talk soon. So apparently in that game, not only did the Mariners lose, but they went to Edward Bizzardo over Andres Munoz in the seventh inning and then had no explanation for it for the last calendar year. The Mariners didn't go to the World Series and then missed the playoffs in 2026. What? 00:05:55 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen the movie Shutter Island? Nope. We essentially just reenacted it. 00:06:03 Speaker 2: Well, thank you to the first ever rendition of the Marine Layer Pod on Broadway. If you enjoyed it, hey, leave us a review, and we'll be back at another date with our next showing. So thank you to everybody who came out. We'll just take a bow. Yeah, the one-year anniversary of a truly pathetic day. 00:06:19 Speaker 1: A truly. 00:06:21 Speaker 2: And everybody a year ago said, no, you got to just enjoy what happened this season and appreciate the run. Well, no, a stupid decision. 00:06:28 Speaker 1: No, honest question. Do people sit here today, like a year later, seeing what happened the year after and still like enjoy the run? Like there were some great moments, but like the end result, no. No. 00:06:43 Speaker 2: And as we sit here recording tonight, the Rays and the Brewers are now set to square off in the World Series. So guess what? No matter what, at the end of this World Series, the list of teams that have never won the World Series is about to shrink. We're down to four after this World Series. It's going to be the Mariners, the Padres, the Rockies, and one of the two teams in the World Series. And only one of those teams has never been to the World Series. So I'm sorry, man. People say, well, it's been a year. You need to get over it. No, I won't get over it. I won't get over it. Until they make the World Series, I won't get over an abomination of a decision costing them a trip to the World Series. 00:07:21 Speaker 1: Like, no! I would yell like Lyle, but I gotta save my voice. It's probably like people who are 15 to 20 years older than us that will probably not let, you would think, not let 95 or 01 go. Or 2000. Like, the energy should be the same for all of them, but it is more frustrating for 2025 because it was Game 7, and it seemed... to be totally preventable. And yet here we are a year later. And if we thought we were disappointed, then what makes it even more disappointing and even more frustrating is that things just got significantly worse and didn't even give themselves an opportunity to redeem themselves. And now we have to watch another team's fan base. Who's never won a world series, celebrate that before the Mariners, when this was supposed to be the year. Yeah. 00:08:14 Speaker 2: You know, A lot of people ask me, Lyle, when you watch those highlights back of Game 7, specifically the George Springer home run, how do you usually react, especially a year later? Do you watch those highlights? Well, they've popped up on my feed over the last couple years. That's fair. Do you go search out those highlights and watch them? No, I feel like they usually just pop up on Twitter from time to time, so I'll see it. 00:08:40 Speaker 1: Yeah, I do not search out Game 7 highlights. No. The farthest I'll go before I stop is game five. That's it. 00:08:47 Speaker 2: Well, I was going to get into more here again. It's been a year. Okay. Sorry. 00:08:51 Speaker 1: Didn't mean to interrupt. 00:08:52 Speaker 2: No, it's all right. It's all right. There's a lot of feelings being lashed out here as, as we celebrate the one year anniversary of a truly awful day. But people ask Lyle, it's been a year, you know, time's gone by other things in life have happened. How do you react now? Seeing, seeing those highlights. And I, I always respond the same way. I mean, Just the same as any normal person would. When you see a frustrating highlight a year later, you learn to live with it. I usually react something like this. It usually goes like that. Thank you, King Neptune. Yeah, it usually goes about like that. Like I said, like any normal person would react. Any normal person. 00:09:38 Speaker 1: I usually will watch the highlight and scroll off and not scroll for any other highlights. Thankfully, the Springer one does not find my feed that often. 00:09:46 Speaker 2: I don't know. 00:09:48 Speaker 1: It's usually like Julio hitting his home run in that game. 00:09:52 Speaker 2: I feel like I see the one of Julio from game three often, and people are like, oh yeah i thought in that moment they were gonna win it all i did too and then edward bizardo came in the seventh inning of game seven yes the mariners did lose three additional games before game seven and they got boat raced in a couple of them so some of that's on them but good lord good lord it's not fun to relive watching other teams getting to live the dream that you want i'll say that And here we sit with absolutely no idea in sight when on earth this team could possibly make a World Series. Maybe it's this upcoming year. Maybe it's 100 years. I mean, there's been other years where we thought, oh, this is the year for the Mariners. 2015, 2020, 3, 2026, 1996 for people that live that. Oh, two. Like, yeah. 00:10:41 Speaker 1: I can't remember if we told the people on Monday's podcast. Should we tell people about the historical achievement of the Marine Lear pod as well? 00:10:48 Speaker 2: Oh, I don't even know what you mean. What do we do? 00:10:51 Speaker 1: The Marine Layer podcast will be attending their first World Series. 00:10:56 Speaker 2: Oh, yes. Now, I didn't catch your drift at first because we're not really going for the pod. But yes, the two of us will be there and we do make up the two people of this podcast. It's more for Bullpen Banner. It's more for our other channel. But yes, we are going. We're really excited. 00:11:11 Speaker 1: Yeah, it should be exciting. So we can officially say we made the World Series before the Mariners did. 00:11:18 Speaker 2: It's amazing. It really is amazing. 00:11:20 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:11:20 Speaker 2: We're, we're not going to be there the whole time, but we're going to media day to do some bullpen manner content with the players who were set up to talk that day. And then we're going to do some fan stuff on that Friday before game one. So it's like a quick 48 hour trip, but we're looking forward to it big time. 00:11:37 Speaker 1: And maybe we can get a, a, an evaluation of the Mariners infield defense from Ben Williamson and see what he has to think. 00:11:44 Speaker 2: Dude, there's really a lot of mail. There's probably a lot of Mariners fans that would love to have him back, even though, again, I'm happy for Ben. I'm happy that he's playing a nice utility role on now a World Series contending team, but I don't know if you want his bat in the lineup all the time. 00:11:58 Speaker 1: No, not really. But I guess it depends who he's replacing in the lineup. Yeah. 00:12:04 Speaker 2: I mean, Rob Refsnyder? I don't know. 00:12:08 Speaker 1: If it's Rob Refsnyder, his OPS is higher. Right. Higher floor. but it should be fun. Uh, I don't think there's going to be that many actual like X Mariners to catch up on. 00:12:21 Speaker 2: It's, it's Ben Williams. Maybe. No, it's Ben Williamson and it's Casey Legamina. 00:12:26 Speaker 1: So, I mean, sometimes surprises find you in, in opportune places. So sure. You never know. 00:12:30 Speaker 2: I mean, we'll also be at the stadium where the Mariners lost their most embarrassing game of the entire season and 22 to nothing where Julio chucked a ball into the stands. 00:12:40 Speaker 1: We'll see if they, uh, put a plaque up for that one. It's like when Griffey hit the ball out onto, uh, onto Lansdowne Street. They put a plaque where the ball landed. Maybe the Brewers put a plaque where Julio tossed the ball up with less than three outs. Just to honor something they've never seen before. 00:12:59 Speaker 2: There is a chance if we post an Instagram post from the trip of any pictures, we may by default be forced, and by forced I mean the two of us making a unanimous decision to use the caption, have now been to more World Series than the Mariners. 00:13:16 Speaker 1: We'll talk a little, I guess, as much as there is to talk about that trip on probably two podcasts from now on Monday's podcast. So that should be a fun time. Hopefully we don't get stranded there. That would be fun. Because then we can record the podcast on time. That would be great. If we don't get stranded there, Lyle, we will be at an event that I want all of you to come out for as well. Because there's no Mariners baseball left, but there are still some pretty big football games going on. And we will be... At an event with a pretty big one going on next this upcoming Sunday night, October 25th for Sunday night football between the Seahawks and the Chiefs down with our friends at Emerald Queen Casino in Tacoma. So they're really rolling out the red carpet for this event at the EQC event center with there's free admission. There's three massive screens. We're going to be helping EQC give away $ 2, 000 worth of free play throughout the game. The event is presented by Bud Light and Space Dust IPA. There will be games. There will be prizes. There will be other giveaways. If you want more details about the event and want to come hang out with us, visit emeraldqueen.com. We hope to see you down there this Sunday, Sunday night, October 25th. You know the pieces in your closet that you find yourself wearing on repeat? The sweater that goes with everything, the perfect pair of pants, or the t-shirt that you always go for first. 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Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash marine layer. Get free shipping on your order in 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash marine layer. So there's been a lot of talk this offseason, Lyle, about the Phillies potentially shaking things up because that core has been in place for about five years now since Dave Dombrowski took over. He's been slowly compiling all of the biggest contracts in baseball as he normally does and gets his roster old and unathletic. And for a while, the Phillies have won a bunch of games, but they've been regressing year over year over year. And it's possible that They could make a trade this offseason to shake up their roster and move themselves back in a positive trajectory. Is there anything jumping out here to you that could line up the Mariners and the Phillies? 00:16:24 Speaker 2: I would say my first statement on this is, while the Phillies have a lot of talented players, there are not a lot of guys on that roster that line up well for a trade between these two teams. There's just not. And we'll get into all the specifics, but I'd say there's one guy that really stands above the rest on this team, and otherwise it's going to be tough. 00:16:44 Speaker 1: A lot of the noise around the Phillies, I mean, Ken Rosenthal wrote right after the Phillies season over, like pretty bluntly that the Phillies were going to need to shake things up. And when Ken Rosenthal writes something like that, he's probably heard some things from executives or maybe from the Phillies themselves that they feel like a shakeup is necessary, and that's where he's getting that information from. Here's a few of the players he names. Kyle Schwarber, Bryce Harper, and Trey Turner. Let's start with the easiest decision of all of these guys. The Phillies are not trading Trey Turner. Number one, because Trey Turner is currently two or three years, I can't remember, maybe three years into an 11-year, $ 300 million contract where he was one of the worst offensive players in baseball and one of the worst defensive players in baseball last year. Not an easy contract to trade, and I can't see why the Mariners would have any interest in Trey Turner. Now, Lyle, if Trey Turner was healthy, if he was playing well, different discussion, because he's an infielder and he's right-handed. But then you run into another problem, which you'll run into a lot with the Phillies, is no trade clauses, and you need to convince players to come play for you. That comes into effect with Kyle Schwarber, who just got his 10-5 rights. who Rosenthal also mentions, and then Bryce Harper as well, who, again, also in his 13-year contract has a full no-trade clause. Mariners are going to need to do some convincing if they want any of these guys. 00:18:18 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Trey Turner's out. I don't even think this is crazy to say at this point, but when you factor in the contracts and you factor in the age and you factor in the no-trade clauses, is it crazy to say I'd rather have Edmundo Sosa than Trey Turner at this point? 00:18:32 Speaker 1: Not crazy at all, no. 00:18:34 Speaker 2: I mean, Trey Turner's about to be 34 and his contract's absurd. It takes him through the end of 2034. I mean, he's going to be above 40 by the time that contract's over. I think he's going to be, what, is he going to be 41? No, he'll be, he'll be like 39 or I don't know. I can't do math. He's going to be about 40 when that contract's over in 2034. So like that's out and he's not performing now all of a sudden. Schwarber and Harper is where this gets a lot more interesting. If you were just to ask the two of us at face value, Hey, do you want Kyle Schwarber or Bryce Harper on your baseball team? Yes, but it's not that simple. It never is with players like that on big contracts. Let's start with the two big fish. And then we can talk about some smaller pieces on this roster as well. 00:19:21 Speaker 1: Excuse me. Sorry. Number one, Bryce Harper. So Bryce has five years and $ 125 million left on his deal. He's been in Philly since 2019. If you're looking for consistency, Bryce Harper is the guy for this. As a Philly, his WRC Plus has never been below 130. Even this past year at age 33, even with him battling some injuries at points, he's never dipped below 130. 135 this past year. It was 170 in 2013. 2021 when he won MVP. Those numbers all sound great. Oh, and by the way, if you trade for him, like you're not worrying about platoon splits, you're not worrying about as much about slumping because he walks so much and he's got such unbelievable command of the strike zone. And if you do trade for him, Like, he can just DH for you. Because he's not being heralded as a prime defender anymore. So if he's coming to Seattle, and he DHs, or plays first base and Josh Naylor DHs, and like, well, we paid both of you, so figure it out. Like, that's fine. Like, that actually works if you're going to talk yourself into it. Well, there's just like the other factors of no trade clause, etc., why this, you know, wouldn't work. Or the money, of course, because the Mariners... As famously said, paying money to 30 plus year old players, that kind of money is not in their wheelhouse. 00:20:44 Speaker 2: I think you mean to throw it back to two off seasons ago when we hammered this phrase into the ground. It's not a smart strategy. 00:20:51 Speaker 1: No, it's not a smart strategy. Nope. 00:20:55 Speaker 2: Anyway, I will say this about Bryce Harper. If you want some positives about him, other than the fact that he's a future Hall of Famer and still absolutely mashing at the age of 33. That man would change a culture. I'll tell you that right now. I'm not saying Bryce Harper is what the Mariners will end up doing to end all be all fix their culture. But I'm just saying the idea of Bryce Harper on this roster in general, I guarantee you would help the culture because Bryce Harper will not put up with the things that went down in that clubhouse last year. He does not put up with losing. He does not put up with bullshit. He wants to win very, very badly. 00:21:33 Speaker 1: The downside of this is that Bryce Harper controls 100% on whether or not he comes to Seattle. And Rosenthal deposited a very interesting nugget in his piece on how a team would go about acquiring these guys. And he lays out, you know, Bryce Harper signs with the Phillies in 2019. He now has four kids. When he signed that contract, he never envisioned himself leaving Philadelphia. If he was going to sign there, he decided, I don't want any opt-outs. I want a full no-trade clause. And I fully plan on retiring a Philadelphia Philly and just playing out that contract. Ken Rosenthal notes, if you're going to get Bryce Harper to waive his no trade clause, you would have to extend him beyond his current deal of five years left. 00:22:25 Speaker 2: I mean, that is just crazy. Remember how we said a minute ago, this isn't so simple about just trading for them, quote unquote. If Rosenthal's right in his reporting, and I'm sure he's talking to agents, I'm sure he's talking to front offices, you would essentially have to extend Bryce Harper's career even further to the point where he's on that contract until the end of 2032. 00:22:48 Speaker 1: So he's got four more years. He's going to be 39 at the end of that contract. Right. 00:22:53 Speaker 2: Or no, more than four more years. 27, 28, 29, 30, 31. You have five more years on the contract. 00:22:56 Speaker 1: So.... 00:23:00 Speaker 2: If he wants an extension, what does that even mean? He wants to be paid until he's 43? Listen, I love Bryce Harper. Love the player. Love his tenacity. We got to talk to him for bullpen banner this year. It's funny. There's the persona of Bryce Harper that you see from afar, and you see the interview, like the clown question, bro, when he was so young in his career and the couple fights he gets into, and there's a part of you that's like, oh, is he a little bit intimidating? Bryce Harper could not have been nicer when we talked to him this year. 00:23:28 Speaker 1: He was awesome. 00:23:29 Speaker 2: Like the idea of having him on the Mariners, that idea alone, I would sign up for every day of the week and twice on Sundays. I don't know if I love the idea of giving him a contract extension until he's 43 years old. 00:23:43 Speaker 1: And Rosenthal said the same thing for Kyle Schwarber. So you pick the two star bats on the Phillies who performed well this year. One has four years remaining. One is five years remaining. Both will be in their late 30s by the time those contracts expire. And to get them to even consider waiving their no trade clause, you would need to offer them, I'm going to say in the ballpark of three extra years on their contract at their current rate, full well knowing they're not going to perform at their current rate at those ages. 00:24:17 Speaker 2: Dude, the Schwarber one's even crazier. And you know why? Because Kyle Schwarber got a five-year $ 150 million extension. Last year, like one year ago, he just got an extension for $ 30 million a year as a DH. And look, he's earned every penny of that. He's still arguably the best pure power hitter in the game of baseball, or they're better pure hitters than him. Sure. Judge. And you can still argue Shohei when he's healthy, whoever Kyle Schwarber, I think is the, or, Oh, I should put your on in that mix. Obviously Kyle Schwarber, I think is the best pure power hitter in the game at this point. But the idea that he wants years added on to his contract, so you're paying a full-time DH from ages what? He'd be, what, 33 for Schwarber? That contract right now will go through about age 37 or 38 for him. He wants to be extended until 41 or so as a DH? That feels like bad business, unfortunately. 00:25:15 Speaker 1: And that's to get them to even consider it. And here's my thinking on how you're going to get the Phillies to consider this as well. Because let's be honest, Lyle. The Mariners are not going to offer an extension if they are paying every cent of that extension into these guys' late 40s. Which... I mean, the idea of an extension might take them off the table in the first place, but let's hypothetically say the Mariners are okay sacrificing the future, the long, long way future, like seven, eight years from now, but they don't want to pay that money. How do you get the Phillies to chip in money for that contract? They'll have to chip in some money for this contract because otherwise, as good as Bryce and Kyle are, the Phillies have no negotiating leverage with another team. And they're going to have to eat a lot of those contracts and get them off the books. To get the Phillies to chip in on an extension, do you have to offer them like a prospect? And in my mind, do you have to offer them a top prospect? 00:26:21 Speaker 2: Go on. What do you mean by that? 00:26:25 Speaker 1: More specifically, do you have to offer them Colt Emerson? And you tell the Phillies, look, you said you want to get younger and more athletic. They have a top top infield prospect in Aiden Miller. He spent the last year hurt. I think he's supposed to be okay. But in the future, they have Louisa Rise moving off their infield. They have Alec Bowe moving off their infield. So they have multiple open spots on that infield. Aiden Miller slides into one. Colt Emerson slides into another. They have an infield duo, a young infield duo for the future that makes them better defensively and more athletic. A couple things that Dave Dombrowski said. This offseason that he really wanted with his team and thought they were lacking. I don't think it's crazy. It's like, Phillies, we will take you covering, potentially covering this extension, and we'll give you Colt Emerson. How does that sound? 00:27:18 Speaker 2: The idea of what it would take to get the Phillies to say yes on this isn't crazy, because I'm sure the Phillies would be very, very intrigued by that. What is crazy is anybody thinking the Mariners would say yes to that because they wouldn't. 00:27:30 Speaker 1: They would not. No, they would not even consider that. No. 00:27:34 Speaker 2: And I'm guessing most fans wouldn't either. I know Colt Emerson struggled in his rookie year and ended the year with the injury, but obviously you extended the guy. You have faith in the guy. He's supposed to be your everyday shortstop going forward for a long time. I have a hard time imagining they'd give him up for— in aging Kyle Schwarber or Bryce Harper, as much as I love both of those players. 00:27:55 Speaker 1: I don't think it would be crazy from a value perspective if you were able to offer the Phillies, like George Kirby, for either Bryce Harper or Kyle Schwarber straight up, and it's just a swap. You take on all the money, they'll take on George Kirby, even though you have more years, you're paying all those dollars, and they're older. But the Phillies don't need starters. That makes this really hard for the Mariners. You can't trade them Cade. You can't trade them Sloan. You can't trade them Kirby. You can't trade them Logan Gilbert. You can't trade them anybody to get them to say yes. They have Zach Wheeler. They're paying Aaron Nola a ton of money. Lizardo and Christopher Sanchez are peaking right now. And Andrew Painter, I think people in the Phillies org are really high on. Well, there's, there's nothing you can do to convince them to take one of your starting pitchers for any sort of value. 00:28:42 Speaker 2: Well, of course they're high on Andrew Painter. He's a top prospect too. He's just been injured. 00:28:46 Speaker 1: I know he struggled at points. He was a top prospect. 00:28:48 Speaker 2: Was, I should say. And I know he struggled at points this year, but he also down the stretch of the season put together some pretty good starts. And then in the post season, like help them stay in that series against Atlanta. He pitched really well in that wild card series for them. So I don't think the book is closed by any stretch on Andrew Painter and I think he's still got potentially a very bright future. And if that's the case, then yeah. What do you do? If you're the Phillies, you have starters. 00:29:14 Speaker 1: That's what makes this match really tough. I appreciate the DMS and the comments we've gotten about this idea of trading with the Phillies, but the Phillies don't want most of what you have. Like you have all the same things. They're just older. Like they're also really left-handed and really on athletic. 00:29:34 Speaker 2: And, awful in the field. And we'll get to some of the other guys that are potential. trade chips. We'll just talk through some of them. But yeah, it's not an easy team for the Mariners to line up with for a lot of different reasons. You just listed a couple of them. They're also very expensive. All their good players are expensive. The only ones who aren't. Are there two A starters in Christopher Sanchez and Jesus Lizardo who are not just peaking and are not just in their prime, but they're also on incredibly, and I mean incredibly, team-friendly deals for what their value is. So the odds of the Phillies trading those guys are zero. Like, again, would I sign up for Christopher Sanchez and or Jesus Lizardo on this team? Yeah, in a heartbeat. What do the Phillies want for Christopher Sanchez? Name your price. I'll send it to them. But they're not trading Christopher Sanchez. 00:30:23 Speaker 1: No. No, they're not. What are some of the other names you're thinking of? 00:30:27 Speaker 2: I mean, you can go down the list of guys that are still going to be on the team next year. I mean, do we want to spend 10 seconds on JT Real Muto? He's the he's in the same. Yeah, he's in the same. 00:30:36 Speaker 1: No, not really. 00:30:38 Speaker 2: No, I mean, he's in the same bucket as the other guys. He's old. He's aging. He's he's way past his prime. He's expensive. And the Mariners have a catcher. So that one's not happening. 00:30:47 Speaker 1: You could do Brandon Marsh because he kind of sticks out on the Phillies roster because he's not one of their young, young guys, but he's also not the old and extended group. He just made his first All-Star game. The problem is he is left-handed. He cannot and never has in his career hit lefties, and he had an atrocious second half. Got off to a hot start this year, but man, the second half is not selling me at all. on, like, this is someone you need to acquire. Like, he's been productive in the past. He's been an above-average bat offensively. But he's not really, like, solving any Mariners' issues by coming in there. Like, Dom Canzone does things better than what Brandon Marsh does, besides maybe run the bases. 00:31:35 Speaker 2: Marsh had a 5-0-2 OPS in the second half. 00:31:39 Speaker 1: Yeah, no bueno. 00:31:40 Speaker 2: That seems like a problem. So then you could go to Bryce and Stott, as we just keep going through their roster, who... has been a productive second baseman in his career, but it's the same problem the Mariners run into. He is left-handed. He does not hit lefties particularly well. He's an infielder and mostly plays second base, a position that the Mariners have locked up by a player who was pretty productive for him at 22 years old in Cole Young. 00:32:06 Speaker 1: You already have the same player. Right. 00:32:10 Speaker 2: A left-handed second baseman who struggles against left-handed pitching and is a pretty good defender, it's the same thing. The only difference is Stott's going to be a free agent after this upcoming season and is going to be owed more money than Cole Young's going to get paid in 27. So I don't think that one makes that much sense. And then once you get past Stott, I mean, who else is there? We've basically gone through all their starting... all their starters from last year that are going to be back with the team. I mean, Boehm's a free agent. Not that I'd be very interested in him. 00:32:39 Speaker 1: Not interested at all. 00:32:41 Speaker 2: No, none. I mean, Adolis Garcia is gone because the Adolis Garcia that was the all-star in 2023 for the Rangers appears to be long gone because he's not productive at all anymore. The Phillies cut him this year. Yeah. So there's him. 00:32:53 Speaker 1: Like Luis Arise. Like, where do you play him? Right. 00:32:57 Speaker 2: I mean, and he's going to cost real money in free agency. And personally, that's not where I want to spend my free agent dollars because I don't trust his defense to hold up at all. And I don't think his profile is going to fit well. Yeah. 00:33:10 Speaker 1: I mean, if he magically could play third base fine, but again, you're asking a guy who primarily hits singles to come play in the worst single setting park in baseball, right? Bad mix. 00:33:24 Speaker 2: So then you look at Justin Crawford, who's a rookie and also a left-handed hitter. They're not going to trade him. 00:33:31 Speaker 1: He also wasn't very good. 00:33:32 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you've basically gone through their whole lineup at that point. The only position player that I even think makes a little bit of sense for the Mariners would be Derek Hill, who's got two years of control. But the idea on him is you're just trading for him to be a fourth outfielder because he's a right-handed bat. He really runs the base as well. He's fast. He has a pretty good glove. I'd be interested in Derek Hill as a fourth outfielder if that really came to fruition. I'm not. I'm not sitting here banging the drum for it, but sure. Like, like he does some things well, but we're not sitting here talking about a podcast about a Mariners Phillies trade to highlight Derek Hill. I'm just giving you one position player that might line up. Yeah. Um, can I say one thing by the way? 00:34:15 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:34:16 Speaker 2: Before we get to the pitchers and before we get past the position players, everything we just like in spite of everything we just talked about with the two big stars and the money they're owed, how fun would it be to have one of those guys on the team? I don't want to extend them eight years, but how fun would it be? 00:34:33 Speaker 1: It would be very fun because we don't get many outside players of that caliber to come play for the Mariners. So yeah, it would be awesome. 00:34:40 Speaker 2: I'd love to see Kyle Schwarber hitting home runs so much. So that I have a proclamation. Maybe some of you, maybe some of you are familiar with Ohio state online. He like, he's a big content creator. He works at Barstool. He's a huge guardians, Ohio state fan, Cleveland sports fan. Like, I think he's hilarious, and I think he's insanely creative with his content to the point where he'll do some absurd things revolving around potential Ohio State losses or Cleveland sports losses. So I'm going to take a slight page out of his book, not to that extreme, but a slight page out of his book and say this. If Bryce Harper was to magically end up a Mariner, somehow, someway, even if they extended him to a point where it was ridiculous, even if the contract made no sense, I don't care. If Bryce Harper ended up a Seattle Mariner, I will personally drink a full glass of raw milk for every home run. He hits in a Mariners uniform. 00:35:33 Speaker 1: Stop. No, you won't. If they had Bryce Harper, I'm calling cap on that one. 00:35:38 Speaker 2: If they, if Bryce Harper came to Seattle, like I'll turn it into podcast content. I will drink a glass of raw milk for every home run. He hits in a Mariners uniform. 00:35:46 Speaker 1: I will have to see that to believe it. I don't believe you'll do that. 00:35:49 Speaker 2: Listen, I'm not a believer in raw milk. Like, don't get me wrong. I'm not, I'm like, I'm not going down the Bryce Harper route here. I'm just saying if he was a Mariner and if we were blessed with Bryce Harper to play in the Pacific Northwest, I'm willing, I'm willing to do a lot. Listen, I said I'd hike mailbox peak. Once upon a time, I said Mount Everest for Kyle Tucker. I'll drink a glass of raw milk for every Bryce Harper Mariners homer. 00:36:12 Speaker 1: I think you'll drink the first glass. I don't think you'll drink the glass of the last home run. That's my prediction. 00:36:18 Speaker 2: You don't think I'll get through 30 in a year? 00:36:20 Speaker 1: No. No, I don't. 00:36:23 Speaker 2: Well, I'm willing to do what it takes. 00:36:26 Speaker 1: If Bryce can, so can I. 00:36:28 Speaker 2: Exactly. I'm willing to do what it takes to get him in Seattle. I'm willing to make him a Mariner. Again, it's like the Kyle Tucker thing. I'm giving the baseball gods my sacrifice here. For every home run he hits in a Mariner's uniform, one glass of raw milk. 00:36:42 Speaker 1: You know why the Mariners and Phillies are so similar? They kind of seem like mirror teams of each other, except one team's just older. That's kind of why they're hard to trade with. 00:36:52 Speaker 2: Well, and isn't afraid to use their guts and truly go out and try with every. 00:36:58 Speaker 1: Bone in their body to go win. Well, maybe not the front offices. I meant, like, looking at the rosters this year. Oh. If you look at the Phillies roster this year, you had a bunch of stud starters and then you had a, a swath of position players who just sucked except for two of them. Yeah. It kind of sounds like the Mariners. 00:37:16 Speaker 2: I mean, I hate, I hate to do this. Bryce Harper has hit lefties very well over the course of his career. He's, he's had no problem with either side of the plate. He didn't hit lefties very well this past year. He really didn't look. 00:37:30 Speaker 1: He he's been in the league. 00:37:31 Speaker 2: What? 00:37:31 Speaker 1: 14 years now. Yeah. I'm not worried. 00:37:35 Speaker 2: That's fair. And he did mash righties. I know he had a 657 OPS against lefties this year, but a 1,000 OPS against righties. So you know what? If there was a Mariner that really wasn't hitting lefties, but he was OPSing 1,000 against righties, I guess we'd live with it. 00:37:51 Speaker 1: Is he bad against lefties? He's slightly below average, I guess. That's fine. That's totally fine. 00:37:59 Speaker 2: But usually he has no problems with lefties. That's all. Anyway, I'm just saying, I'm just saying, baseball guys have heard me, Mariners have heard me, glass of raw milk for every Mariners home run for Bryce Everett. 00:38:12 Speaker 1: I will watch from the sidelines. I will not be ingesting raw milk, as cool as it would be. The only pitcher I have circled that makes sense is Orion Kirkring. I think a lot of you might remember his flub in the DS last year that cost the Phillies the series against the Dodgers. His season this year wasn't quite as good. He was much better in 2025, but he's got some solid underlying numbers, and he wouldn't be that expensive. And it seems like the Phillies are due for a bit of a bullpen shuffle, and he could be one of the guys they do choose to shuffle. 00:38:48 Speaker 2: I mean, I have my eyes on a bullpen arm, but it wasn't a Ryan Kirk ring. 00:38:52 Speaker 1: Well, I know. I might have accidentally skimmed over yours and not looked close enough. Okay. Okay. 00:38:59 Speaker 2: I mean, we can sit here and talk about Orion Kirkering for a minute. Yeah. Look, he's young. He's 25 years old. He obviously doesn't get hit all that hard. I mean, he's got good things in his profile. And last year as a rookie, he really did some things very well or not as a rookie, I should say. But last year in 2025, he did some things very well. Like he's got a good four seamer or at points has had a good four seamer. Like I like Orion Kirkering and I don't think he'll cost that much. 00:39:26 Speaker 1: It also feels more in like the realistic bucket than the guy you're about to talk about who like, I took one look at his savant page and said, well, they're not going to trade him to the Mariners. 00:39:38 Speaker 2: Yeah, but he's only got a year of control till he's a free agent. So if the Phillies are going to go through a bullpen shuffle. 00:39:45 Speaker 1: Oh no, I meant the other guy. I mean, you're going to, you're going to mention Joe on Duran. who's got one year left. Here's the thing about the Phillies, though. I'm looking at these articles and these reports about the Phillies. They're shaking up to contend next year. Their problem was their position players, and shuffling up their position players makes more sense than trading the best reliever out of their bullpen. Yes, obviously I want, I very much want them. If they want to trade them to the Mariners, great. but trading the best, by far the best reliever out of their bullpen to a different team, just like, it doesn't make sense. 00:40:24 Speaker 2: But if they were going to truly start to trade pieces off their roster, why are you keeping a reliever with one year of control? 00:40:31 Speaker 1: But I think you're getting it mixed up. They're not rebuilding yet. They're trying to get themselves better next year to win. And maybe that requires trading highly paid positionless position players to on your big league roster for more athletic younger players who make you better in other areas. As opposed to, our bullpen's a dumpster fire, let's trade the best guy away for whatever. I mean, one year of a reliever won't get you that much. 00:41:02 Speaker 2: Perhaps not. I mean, he's one of the best, I mean, not even one of the, he's one of the three best relievers in baseball. He'd certainly get you something, but If the Phillies are not set on rebuilding next year, and they're just simply trying to reset rather than rebuild, then yeah, you're going to keep the final year of Joe Anderan on his contract. Sure. I'm just saying, if they were actually to start to trade pieces away, yes, I'd be interested in Joe Anderan. 00:41:26 Speaker 1: I would absolutely. I don't know if there would be anyone out there, if he was available, that could make the Mariners better than trading for him. But yeah, I don't think they are. 00:41:34 Speaker 2: The one other reliever of interest in the Phillies bullpen is Jonathan Bolin, who really broke out this year. He really, really was dynamite for that Phillies bullpen. He was about the only reliable reliever besides Duran. The problem is Bolin's got five years of control. So again, for a Phillies bullpen, that's already bad. They're not trading them. 00:41:53 Speaker 1: That's who I was referencing earlier. It's like, yeah, five years of control. No way. 00:41:57 Speaker 2: I'm more meant Duran. Like the guy I thought, if you're going to talk about who lines up for the Mariners sake, to execute a trade with, yeah, it's for Joe on Duran. And we already know the Mariners want them or wanted him. I can't imagine they want them any less now if he happened to be available, but yeah, if the Phillies aren't going to truly start to rebuild this year and tear it down, then they're not going to trade them. 00:42:19 Speaker 1: One last note on this Philly situation. Just if you need some context, Dave Dombrowski has one year left on his contract and he's 70 years old and his team looks like they have one year left in them. I'm, I'm going to make a bold prediction that's not bold at all, that Dave Dombrowski will not be around to see a Phillies rebuild. There will be perhaps a different front office. So if he's going to be employed for next year, which he is, I mean, he just hired Don Mattingly to be his manager, then he's, yeah, he's not selling off yet. 00:42:53 Speaker 2: Well, he's never done this in the past, right? He's never like let a roster age out, get old and uncompetitive, and then just straight up leave. He's never done that. 00:43:02 Speaker 1: Three times, actually. Actually, maybe more. 00:43:05 Speaker 2: Tigers, Red Sox, Phillies. Has he done it somewhere else? 00:43:08 Speaker 1: Was it the Marlins, too? 00:43:10 Speaker 2: Maybe. He's at least done it in those three locations with those three franchises. But yes, this is the Dombrowski playbook. If you hire Dombrowski to be your GM, you know you're probably going to be in a spot where you really compete for a few years. And then your roster is going to get real old and real uncompetitive real fast. 00:43:26 Speaker 1: I'll give him credit. He stuck with the Tigers for 13 years. I had no idea he lasted that long in Detroit. That's awesome. Credit to him. But yeah, Marlins, Marlins from the expansion and then the Expos from 88 to 91. 00:43:40 Speaker 2: Yeah. But again, even though he stuck in Detroit 13 years, still the same playbook. He left as soon as that roster was old and you could tell they weren't going to compete when they had older Miggy. Well, Miggy, Miggy in the mid 2010s was still really hitting, but still you had him and you had V Mart and you had Verlander aging and you had Jordan Zimmerman. I mean, like it just, it was like, you could tell that roster was going down the drain. 00:44:04 Speaker 1: Well, cause right after he left to the tigers, then lost like 110 games, multiple years in a row. Right. Right. 00:44:12 Speaker 2: So yeah, not great. 00:44:13 Speaker 1: No, it is not great. I would be shocked if Dave Nebraska has more than a year left and, If you're thinking of a trade with the Phillies, think of how he's going to operate in that scenario. 00:44:25 Speaker 2: Yeah, he wants to win in 2027. Yeah. I would say that's just about it on the Phillies roster. There's not really anybody else. So in conclusion, as we start to wrap this thing up, I think the conclusion is similar to what I said at the start of this segment regarding the Phillies and Mariners, which is there's just not a lot of guys that line up for the Mariners, unfortunately. 00:44:47 Speaker 1: Give me a serious answer. If, if you had to extend Bryce Harper or Kyle Schwarber three years to get them to waive their note, their no trade clause, would you do it? 00:44:59 Speaker 2: Knowing that this franchise caps themselves on their own budget all the time. Unfortunately, probably not. Cause that probably means you're not going out and get getting anybody else for a long while. So love Bryce. I do stand by my statement. I will drink raw milk for every Homer. He hits in a Mariners uniform. If he, Comes to Seattle. But if you're talking about put on your objectivity hat and be serious and think about the best, healthiest procedure for a baseball team to go through with, extending those two until they're in their 40s is probably not the best way to go about it. 00:45:35 Speaker 1: I also would not do that. Yeah. It would not be a move this front office would make, nor would ownership approve, nor would I think any group in baseball approve any ownership group. I think not. I don't even think the Dodgers would approve that unless you deferred all the money. Yeah. So they didn't have to pay it. 00:45:55 Speaker 2: Let's throw out one other scenario. Say they're willing to waive their no trade clause and they don't require an extension. Then are you interested? Because then my answer is yes. 00:46:04 Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. But I don't think that's going to happen. 00:46:09 Speaker 2: Unless they see the writing on the wall and they see that Bryce, maybe not because you're right that I think Bryce is serious about wanting to stay in one city and with one organization the rest of his career. But if Schwarber saw the writing on the wall that the team's going to get really old and they're not going to compete and he was actually willing to be open-minded about getting traded. Yeah, like sign me up. T-Mobile Park might not be a singles or doubles friendly park and it might be tougher for right-handed hitters. It ain't that tough for power hitting lefties. I'll say that. 00:46:41 Speaker 1: I don't think Kyle Schwarber just signed a five-year contract with a no trade clause is just now seeing the writing on the wall that the team's old and doesn't have a ton of shelf life left. 00:46:52 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think so either, but I'd be happy to be wrong. I don't think so either, but we're playing hypotheticals here and on the hypothetical that they'd get shopped around and it doesn't require an additional extension. Yes. I'm interested in four years of Kyle Schwarber. 00:47:05 Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah, I exactly. I'm right there with you. Yeah. 00:47:09 Speaker 2: All right. Well, that was a fun exercise. We might start to do this with some other teams at some point, too, if there's others that people want to see us try to line the Mariners up with. If there's smoke and rumors about the Mariners trying to trade with a certain team, we can go through this exercise again as the offseason gets going. But once the offseason gets going. I think there's going to be a lot of action in the month of November because people are going to have to move fast before this lockout happens. So I think November is going to be pretty jam-packed between the Mariners hiring a new manager, them likely trying to execute a lot of acquisitions before the lockout starts. Yeah. I think it'll be good. Yeah. Anyway, that'll just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Layer podcast. You guys know the drill. If you want to listen to the full-form podcast, you can do so wherever you get your audio pods. Make sure to download these episodes if you're listening. Please make sure to go rate and review and leave it five stars when you do so. It helps the show a bunch. Go hit subscribe on YouTube. If you're watching the show, you can also check out our website, which is marinelayerpod.com. You can find our podcast merch there. We really hope you go get yourself some Marine Layer Pod merch. We've got our Patreon there. We've got all our episodes there. That's at marinelayerpod.com. And find us on social media. We're everywhere and we're posting content every day at marinelayerpod. That's TJ. I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon.