Episode 134: Rob Friedman (Pitching Ninja), Reacting To The Brant Brown Firing, And Evaluating Ty France's Breakout May

[00:00:00] Welcome to episode number 134 of the Marine Layer Podcast.

[00:00:04] We welcome on the pitching ninja Rob Freeman to discuss all things

[00:00:08] Mariners pitching so far this season.

[00:00:11] We also have our two Mariners storylines.

[00:00:12] Brand Brown gets fired and we're also starting to see the results

[00:00:17] of the driveline version of Ty France here in 2024.

[00:00:22] Here's your guys reminder.

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[00:01:00] And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast part

[00:01:03] of the Just Baseball Podcast Network recording Monday afternoon,

[00:01:08] June 3rd and Lyle, I think the Mariners are fixed.

[00:01:15] All we needed was a good old home series against the Los Angeles Angels.

[00:01:19] That'll fix any team.

[00:01:21] No, thank you, Ron Washington.

[00:01:23] Thank you, Artie Moreno.

[00:01:25] Thank you to Mike Trout for taking the series off.

[00:01:28] I'm going to be honest.

[00:01:29] We've seen some bad Angels rosters.

[00:01:32] I don't recognize half their players.

[00:01:36] I'm standing out on the field this past weekend and I'm, I'm befuddled.

[00:01:41] I recognize Zack Neto.

[00:01:43] I recognized Logan Ohapi.

[00:01:46] I recognize a couple of pitchers Griffin Camming, but yeah, dude,

[00:01:50] there's a lot of guys that would walk by or that were on the field.

[00:01:54] I'm like, who are you?

[00:01:57] It's unbelievable.

[00:01:59] It is pretty unbelievable.

[00:02:01] So really, that's all it took.

[00:02:02] The Mariners just needed to play the Angels to snap out of an offensive

[00:02:08] funk or in a playing funk too and have a really nice homestand.

[00:02:11] The six-in-one stretch to finish, to finish out this play at T-Mobile Park

[00:02:15] before they head to Oakland tomorrow on Tuesday.

[00:02:18] Man, this day always stinks.

[00:02:22] It's bad.

[00:02:24] Which is great.

[00:02:24] I know that's the bottom, but if you, if you had the white sox

[00:02:29] and the Angels play 15 times, what do you, is it 7-7?

[00:02:37] I'm trying to think.

[00:02:38] I feel like, is it crazy to say the White Sox roster has more upside

[00:02:43] than the Angels?

[00:02:44] Yes, because the White Sox are by far the worst offensive team in baseball.

[00:02:49] Okay, but I'm thinking this Angels team without Mike Trout,

[00:02:53] without Brandon Drury, I'm thinking the team we just saw this weekend.

[00:02:59] So the White Sox do have crochet.

[00:03:00] He's pretty good.

[00:03:01] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:02] Is there anyone you could say on the Angels that are, that is pretty good?

[00:03:07] Mike Trout.

[00:03:08] That plays.

[00:03:11] Oh, Hoppy.

[00:03:12] Yeah.

[00:03:14] We're struggling here a little bit.

[00:03:17] It's, it's not good.

[00:03:19] It's not good for, for, I mean, White Sox have Louise Robert

[00:03:22] when he's healthy.

[00:03:24] Yeah.

[00:03:24] When, if.

[00:03:26] Yeah.

[00:03:27] Then it, it's certainly a thing, but yeah, so the Angels

[00:03:30] certainly played at T-Mobile Park this weekend.

[00:03:32] That's about all we could say about their performance.

[00:03:35] Hey, and Cole Tucker pitched.

[00:03:36] Good for him.

[00:03:36] Two-way player.

[00:03:37] I know he said he wanted to, when we talked to him in spring training,

[00:03:40] we had him on for a social clip.

[00:03:42] He wanted to get to 100 career home runs, but now he can tell

[00:03:47] that he has a zero ERA.

[00:03:49] You might as well just call him Shohei.

[00:03:51] Yeah.

[00:03:52] So Shohei is dating Vanessa Hudgens.

[00:03:55] It's pretty cool.

[00:03:55] Yeah.

[00:03:56] Yeah, exactly.

[00:03:57] Good for Cole.

[00:03:58] Yeah.

[00:03:59] Before we get into our storylines, let's touch on some breaking

[00:04:03] note news here on Monday.

[00:04:04] The Mariners sent Jonathan Clausset back down to triple A

[00:04:07] to get him some at bats every single day and replacing his spot

[00:04:11] on the roster.

[00:04:12] They sign former Washington Nationals outfielder Victor

[00:04:16] Robles, a former top five prospect really toolsy, but

[00:04:20] he hasn't hit much at the big league level.

[00:04:23] Is this, Lyle, what do you think this is something that's

[00:04:26] going to be a week and a half, two week thing for Victor Robles

[00:04:30] or is there a chance he stays on this roster longer?

[00:04:33] It's tough to say.

[00:04:35] You know, I don't want to say I called this, but when I saw

[00:04:39] the move of Jonathan Clausset as being optioned to Tacoma

[00:04:43] and there was nothing corresponding, something was up

[00:04:46] about that in the sense of, well, if they had sent him

[00:04:49] down, but we're planning to call somebody back up, you

[00:04:51] figured you would have seen in the tweet or in the update

[00:04:53] that Cade Marlowe was going up or some odd Taylor was going

[00:04:56] up.

[00:04:56] It wasn't like that.

[00:04:58] It was just class A being sent down.

[00:04:59] So I said to myself, could it be a small trade?

[00:05:02] Or we also know Victor Robles just got DFA'd by the Nationals.

[00:05:06] Could the Mariners be interested in them low and behold?

[00:05:09] Little while later, it was true.

[00:05:11] The Mariners signed him.

[00:05:13] He's now a member of the organization.

[00:05:14] I would say to answer your question, it is likely more

[00:05:19] short term.

[00:05:20] We'll see what happens when Jorge Polanco gets back.

[00:05:24] If I had to guess, this could be more of a short term

[00:05:26] signing for somebody to give him a little bit of speed, give

[00:05:30] him some defense and just to have somebody off the bench.

[00:05:33] That's a pretty good athlete.

[00:05:35] They don't get faster per se because Clausset as we know

[00:05:38] is an elite speed guy.

[00:05:40] Victor Robles when he was a prospect was an elite speed

[00:05:42] guy, but year by year, he slowed down a little bit.

[00:05:45] So he's not quite that, but once a week outfielder,

[00:05:49] like sure, he had a 112 WRC plus last season.

[00:05:52] That was his best mark who's only in 30-something games,

[00:05:55] but he did have that mark last season.

[00:05:57] He doesn't hit for power.

[00:05:59] He was never a power guy even as a top five prospect.

[00:06:02] Like this dude was up there with Vlad Gros Jr.

[00:06:05] and Fernando Tate Jr.

[00:06:07] as terms of prospect like talented, talented, talented dude.

[00:06:10] He was the dude who was supposed to come in after Bryce

[00:06:13] Harper left along with Juan Soto and transform that

[00:06:16] Nationals outfield.

[00:06:17] Well, Soto took the reins.

[00:06:19] Robles never really did.

[00:06:21] So the hitting thing really hasn't worked out for him in

[00:06:26] his career.

[00:06:27] Powers never come along.

[00:06:28] He's never hit for a high average.

[00:06:29] He hasn't gotten on a base a ton, although in a small

[00:06:32] sample this season he has gotten on base a little bit more.

[00:06:36] So there's not much for him really to offer besides the fact

[00:06:39] he's still got a tiny bit of speed and then who again,

[00:06:42] who is a big leaguer who will probably play once a week

[00:06:45] and it's someone you can afford to play once a week

[00:06:48] opposed to Jonathan Clauss say who you want playing every

[00:06:50] day down in Tacoma.

[00:06:52] Isn't it funny how that works that Juan Soto in terms of

[00:06:55] prospect rankings was where in the 40s or 50s when he got

[00:06:59] called up and Robles was top five.

[00:07:01] Yeah, I think he was top 35 when he got called up because

[00:07:05] remember like Juan Soto's ascension was really quick.

[00:07:08] Yeah, they didn't even have time to move him up the

[00:07:11] prospect rankings before he debuted.

[00:07:14] Right, because he played what 10 games in double A

[00:07:16] the original plan was the national said, all right,

[00:07:18] we'll call him up for two weeks just to fill the void of

[00:07:22] an injury and once we get our everybody back healthy

[00:07:25] will go back down.

[00:07:25] But then they realized after two weeks, well, he's

[00:07:28] hitting a little too well for us to send him back down.

[00:07:30] I guess we can keep him a little longer and then a

[00:07:32] couple more weeks go by.

[00:07:33] It's like, all right, I guess we'll stay for the time

[00:07:35] being till it got to the point where they were like,

[00:07:37] this guy is just one of the best hitters on the entire

[00:07:39] planet and he never went back.

[00:07:40] So if Victor Robles when he comes up had never had

[00:07:43] that success of the big league level.

[00:07:45] Right.

[00:07:46] Now I will say two notes on Robles.

[00:07:49] He has been for the most part of his career a very good

[00:07:52] defender oftentimes an elite defender.

[00:07:54] He had a year where he had 21 outs above average.

[00:07:57] He was that good.

[00:07:59] That was back in, I believe 2019.

[00:08:01] Yeah, 2019 last year at an uncharacteristic year in

[00:08:05] the field where he wasn't all that strong.

[00:08:08] He's been a little better this year, but I'm assuming

[00:08:10] the Mariners are banking on the fact that in the past

[00:08:12] he's been a very good defender and he has a very good arm.

[00:08:15] He does hit lefties a little bit.

[00:08:17] So look at these numbers in his career, even though

[00:08:19] he has not had much offensive success last season,

[00:08:23] small sample size, but 2023 146 WRC plus against left-handed

[00:08:27] pitching 2022.

[00:08:29] We put up a 111 WRC plus.

[00:08:31] I would guess you'll see him face some left-handed

[00:08:33] pitching when he gets in the lineup.

[00:08:35] And that's kind of what he profiles as a little bit

[00:08:38] of speed, a little bit of defense.

[00:08:39] Maybe he can hit them lefties.

[00:08:40] Now, I would say it's going to look something like this

[00:08:44] before we start to move on.

[00:08:46] I would guess that him and Ryan Bliss now will be

[00:08:50] somewhat compared in terms of the production and the

[00:08:52] success they have over the next week or two until

[00:08:55] Jorge Palanco gets back because the Mariners have

[00:08:57] options when he gets back.

[00:08:59] When Polo is healthy, they could send Bliss back

[00:09:01] to Tacoma, keep Robless if he's playing well and

[00:09:05] adding value and Dimo stays more in the infield

[00:09:08] or they could keep Bliss, DFA Robless and Dimo goes

[00:09:13] back to playing more outfield when Polo is back.

[00:09:15] So I would guess those two guys are kind of battling

[00:09:19] for a spot over the next couple of weeks.

[00:09:22] I think Bliss probably has a little bit more leeway

[00:09:25] than Robless says.

[00:09:26] I'm just not quite sure Robless has that elite

[00:09:28] defense still in him.

[00:09:29] I could be wrong, but most of the what profiles

[00:09:33] for his good defense, which is a speed, he still

[00:09:35] got his arm, but his speed has gone down every single

[00:09:38] season since 2019.

[00:09:40] You mentioned is really good offensive year.

[00:09:42] Well, if you go look at 20, 21, 22, 23 now here 24

[00:09:47] every season he's losing a tick off that top rail

[00:09:51] speed when he came up supposed to be an incredible

[00:09:53] defensive center fielder and he's not playing

[00:09:55] center field in Seattle.

[00:09:56] Maybe that helps him.

[00:09:58] Maybe it maybe it ends up doesn't so we'll see.

[00:10:01] Right now the Mariners have nothing really to

[00:10:04] lose by this.

[00:10:04] It just didn't make much sense overall to have Jonathan

[00:10:07] Klossay on the roster not playing because it hurts

[00:10:10] his production when they're calling him up.

[00:10:12] It's like, well, we need you on the big league roster,

[00:10:14] especially to hit right handed against lefties,

[00:10:17] but then he's not playing and he's not developing

[00:10:19] and that's a guy who needs developing Robles.

[00:10:21] We have a pretty good idea of who he is by now.

[00:10:23] If Robles was going to break out into the star

[00:10:27] he was as a prospect, he would not be a Seattle

[00:10:29] Mariners right now.

[00:10:31] Right.

[00:10:32] Yeah.

[00:10:32] I mean, you're right about that.

[00:10:34] He's probably not going to be that guy now ever in his

[00:10:37] career.

[00:10:38] I think the Mariners are just hoping to get something

[00:10:39] out of him for what he still does bring and again,

[00:10:42] while he's not a phenomenal bat by any standards at

[00:10:44] this point, he can hit lefties a little bit or at

[00:10:46] least he has in the past.

[00:10:47] So we'll see what the next 10 to 14 days look like

[00:10:50] for him, but you're right if it turns out that

[00:10:53] he's not doing much when Polo's back,

[00:10:55] he may not be on the roster anymore.

[00:10:57] Maybe a short term thing we'll have to see.

[00:11:00] The other big news that happened this week that

[00:11:02] happened on Friday as we get into our Mariners

[00:11:04] storylines, Brant Brown who the Mariners brought in

[00:11:07] the off season and we highlighted that it was so

[00:11:10] unusual that the Mariners brought a coach from

[00:11:12] outside their organization in to onto the big league

[00:11:16] staff.

[00:11:16] He was the offensive coordinator.

[00:11:18] He was a bench coach.

[00:11:19] He helped with game planning and in-game adjustments

[00:11:22] and he was relieved of his duties on Friday.

[00:11:26] Not overly shocking, Lyle.

[00:11:29] I was shocked at first.

[00:11:31] I think we were both shocked at first to see the news.

[00:11:33] No.

[00:11:34] I'll say, I was in a sense that the Mariners don't

[00:11:38] normally make decisions like this, but something

[00:11:41] needed to change.

[00:11:43] Like we had just watched that Astro series and

[00:11:46] Spencer Arrigatty dominate the lineup, just dominate

[00:11:49] again.

[00:11:50] And they'd already tried.

[00:11:51] Scott Service had mentioned they tried different

[00:11:53] approaches with messaging and stuff earlier in

[00:11:56] that week while Brant Brown was still employed.

[00:11:59] But they did have to change something.

[00:12:04] Right?

[00:12:04] In the reaction I made for our social media accounts,

[00:12:06] I did say it was shocking because in terms of in-season

[00:12:10] coaching changes, the last one the Mariners franchise

[00:12:13] made was when they fired Howard Johnson in 2015 and

[00:12:16] hired Edgar Martinez.

[00:12:17] That was it.

[00:12:18] That was a while ago, Lyle.

[00:12:19] It was nine years ago.

[00:12:20] They did that.

[00:12:21] That was a pre-Jerry DePoteau regime and Jerry's

[00:12:25] production on his roster hasn't always been good enough

[00:12:29] where people were like, well, fire this, fire this,

[00:12:31] fire this.

[00:12:31] Like it could have happened sometime, but it hadn't

[00:12:35] until now.

[00:12:36] So I don't know if it was the fact they, you know,

[00:12:40] it was almost too much information for the players.

[00:12:42] There's an interesting nugget from Daniel Kramer

[00:12:44] that we'll get into here in a second, which

[00:12:47] highlights maybe a little bit more of this, whether

[00:12:49] it was too much information for the players, maybe

[00:12:51] a little bit of overcoaching where they having a position

[00:12:55] you maybe didn't need to help out this offense.

[00:12:59] But overall, Lyle, when you have an offense that to

[00:13:02] that point was 30th in strikeout rate, 22nd in WRC

[00:13:06] plus 24th and weighted on base average, 24th in

[00:13:09] slugging, 27th in on base percentage, something had to

[00:13:13] change.

[00:13:15] You couldn't roll with that all year.

[00:13:17] You cannot put that much stress on your rotation

[00:13:20] all season long with an offense full of unbelievable

[00:13:24] talent, just not carrying their weight.

[00:13:27] Yes, something had to change and sometimes firing a

[00:13:30] hitting coach is a bit of a scapegoat move.

[00:13:33] Will that end up being the case with the Mariners?

[00:13:35] We don't know.

[00:13:36] We're I mean, we're going to have to see how what

[00:13:37] the offense looks like in the next two to three

[00:13:39] months or the rest of the year and find out,

[00:13:42] but you're right.

[00:13:42] That's something had to change.

[00:13:44] And even though you heard Mitch Hannigar talk

[00:13:45] about, look, this isn't all on Brant Brown.

[00:13:47] He did his job.

[00:13:48] We as players have to do more.

[00:13:50] Even though there were players sticking up for him,

[00:13:53] they needed something to either ignite a fire under

[00:13:57] the players, you know, backside or they needed.

[00:14:03] They either needed to let a fire or they needed

[00:14:05] a change in philosophy.

[00:14:06] Maybe they feel like doing this does both.

[00:14:09] We're going to have to wait and see.

[00:14:11] I don't know what the philosophy changes, but

[00:14:12] maybe the messaging does.

[00:14:14] So Daniel Kramer of MLB.com pointed out that Brown

[00:14:18] was known for his quote unquote unorthodox message

[00:14:22] unorthodox methods of messaging to players, which

[00:14:25] made him a coveted hire.

[00:14:27] But those messages obviously were not landing well.

[00:14:31] I don't know if that's over complication.

[00:14:33] I know he presented a lot of numbers to players

[00:14:36] pregame and scouting and attacking starting

[00:14:39] pitchers and obviously didn't work.

[00:14:42] But we've seen the results against starting

[00:14:43] pitchers.

[00:14:43] They have gotten shredded by average starting

[00:14:47] pitchers this season.

[00:14:48] Maybe they're overthinking, maybe not.

[00:14:51] But in the end when you have this many proven hitters

[00:14:54] who are hitting so far below what they have done

[00:14:57] in their past, something is something is not

[00:15:00] resonating in there and something needs either

[00:15:03] simplify or change and the Brent Brown decision

[00:15:07] was that.

[00:15:08] So the other two hitting coaches, Jared DeHart

[00:15:10] and Tommy Joseph will stay.

[00:15:12] They'll take on increased roles and Scott

[00:15:13] Service mentioned they are going to make a hire

[00:15:15] in-house to add the extra set of hands that Brown

[00:15:20] leaves behind on this coaching staff.

[00:15:22] So now it's up to the Mariners players I would

[00:15:25] say for the this season.

[00:15:27] So the coach, the coaching change has been made.

[00:15:29] But you know, you and I both know they're not

[00:15:31] going to make another in-season coaching

[00:15:33] change.

[00:15:33] I'm surprised they made an in-season coaching

[00:15:36] change even though it had to happen just thinking

[00:15:39] of how do things actually change?

[00:15:41] How do things?

[00:15:42] Does it actually solve anything?

[00:15:45] Changing a baseball coach in the middle of the

[00:15:47] season after you've spent all off season

[00:15:48] trying to implement this?

[00:15:50] Perhaps we'll see.

[00:15:52] So Tommy Joseph and Jared DeHart will keep their

[00:15:55] jobs, but now again it's on the players to take

[00:15:57] a bit of this new messaging and run with it

[00:16:00] and improve better offensively.

[00:16:03] Yeah, change in philosophy is not the right word

[00:16:04] because it's still mostly the same hitting group

[00:16:06] to hearts been there forever.

[00:16:07] Yeah, you said Tommy Joseph is still there.

[00:16:09] It's so yeah, changing philosophy is not

[00:16:10] the right word, but yes, the coaching

[00:16:12] change and probably a bit of a messaging

[00:16:14] change because let's add one thing to what Daniel

[00:16:17] Kramer reported to also in that blurb.

[00:16:20] He said some of Brown's ideas in pregame meetings

[00:16:24] became too complex for the players.

[00:16:26] I think that's an important line.

[00:16:28] I think that means that maybe players felt

[00:16:31] like there was just too much information being

[00:16:34] thrown at them that was taking away from just

[00:16:36] alright, go attack, go grip it and rip it.

[00:16:40] Like you need a balance.

[00:16:41] You've got to have a plan going up there,

[00:16:43] but you can't have all as big of analytics

[00:16:47] and Saber metrics people as the two of us are.

[00:16:49] You can't go up there trying to solve an equation

[00:16:52] in your head and also try and hit the baseball.

[00:16:54] That's not going to work.

[00:16:55] So maybe they felt like they need a little bit

[00:16:57] more of a balance.

[00:16:59] Ryan Davis said it best when you step in the box,

[00:17:01] all that stuff goes out the window.

[00:17:02] You just got to compete.

[00:17:04] You gotta stay alive.

[00:17:05] And that's why at times I think the Mariners

[00:17:07] have done better against relief arms

[00:17:09] than they have against starters.

[00:17:10] Relievers come in.

[00:17:12] You have less of a, I guess, predetermined

[00:17:15] thought process against that guy.

[00:17:18] Well starters you're planning for most of the time.

[00:17:20] So like that could be one thing.

[00:17:23] It could be quality of picture as well.

[00:17:26] And to people want to point at the series

[00:17:28] against the Angels, we did joke at the beginning

[00:17:30] that they got fixed.

[00:17:32] It is kind of hard to make an assumption based

[00:17:35] off of three games against the Angels.

[00:17:37] Chabon to be their best offensive series

[00:17:39] of the season.

[00:17:40] Coincidentally, best strikeout series of the season.

[00:17:43] Coincidentally, so far, it is funny how that all

[00:17:47] works out.

[00:17:48] Think about this.

[00:17:49] Again, that series against the Angels,

[00:17:51] first time all season they had scored five

[00:17:53] or more runs in three straight.

[00:17:54] All season, we're a third of the way through

[00:17:57] the season.

[00:17:58] First time all year they scored five runs

[00:18:00] in three straight.

[00:18:01] They struck out just 18 times in that series

[00:18:04] against the Angels.

[00:18:04] That's a few strikeouts and a three game stretch

[00:18:06] they'd had this season.

[00:18:07] And that was after they had a almost record setting

[00:18:11] strikeout pace against the Astros just the series

[00:18:13] before.

[00:18:15] Do you think it's going to be hard to judge the

[00:18:17] Mariners offense in the next few weeks?

[00:18:18] Because we talked about this on the live stream

[00:18:20] on Sunday, which if you guys don't know,

[00:18:22] come hang out with us on Sunday night,

[00:18:24] 7 p.m. on Instagram, YouTube.

[00:18:26] We take all your guys questions basically just

[00:18:28] hang out and go live.

[00:18:30] This is the Mariners schedule in June or at

[00:18:32] least some of it.

[00:18:33] They just played the Angels this past weekend.

[00:18:35] They have the A's for three.

[00:18:36] They also have the White Sox at home for four.

[00:18:39] They have the Rangers for three little bit tougher,

[00:18:41] but they're going to see him at home and the

[00:18:44] Rangers are still under 500.

[00:18:46] They'll have a tougher series against the Royals

[00:18:47] this week too.

[00:18:48] But then they also have the Marlins and then

[00:18:51] they finished with the twins and the Rays.

[00:18:54] All right.

[00:18:54] I jumbled that a bit together.

[00:18:55] The point with that being the Mariners this

[00:18:57] month see the Angels, the A's, the White Sox

[00:19:00] and the Marlins.

[00:19:01] So they should jump on all of those teams.

[00:19:05] So I would say the best way you can judge what

[00:19:08] this offense is currently looking like and where

[00:19:12] they currently sit in terms of improvement will be

[00:19:14] best judged by some of the tougher teams they play.

[00:19:17] Let's see what they look like against the Royals.

[00:19:19] See what they look like against the Guardians.

[00:19:21] Let's see what they look like against the Rays,

[00:19:22] even the Rangers.

[00:19:24] I think that'll be the best judging meter.

[00:19:27] Yeah, we might have to wait until next month

[00:19:29] in July.

[00:19:30] I think like July overall is a good offensive

[00:19:33] month in baseball.

[00:19:35] But yeah, it's just like especially like the end of

[00:19:38] next week would have been a good one.

[00:19:40] You would get you get two solid weeks post

[00:19:44] brand-brown like what does it look like?

[00:19:45] Even if it's a small sample, are they being

[00:19:47] more aggressive?

[00:19:48] Are they walking more?

[00:19:49] Are they swinging at better pitches?

[00:19:51] Is the whiff rate down all these things?

[00:19:52] But I'm like he's in the White Sox.

[00:19:55] Yeah.

[00:19:56] So that I can't do it.

[00:19:57] And again, it's like watching the Angels this

[00:20:01] weekend. It's like that is not a Major League

[00:20:03] baseball team.

[00:20:03] So even if they've done all of these great things,

[00:20:06] I really unfortunately don't think we can draw any

[00:20:08] assumptions from this.

[00:20:10] Well, and I will say again, I hate to go glass half

[00:20:13] empty here, but Griffin Canning had a pretty good

[00:20:15] month of May.

[00:20:16] I know his overall overall numbers for the year

[00:20:17] are not good.

[00:20:18] He had a good month of May and the Mariners still

[00:20:22] struggled against them.

[00:20:23] They had some runs late off the bullpen and they

[00:20:26] had one Luke Rayleigh solo home run that put

[00:20:28] him out to a 1-0 lead.

[00:20:30] Maybe the best thing we can do is you know what?

[00:20:35] Okay, thinking more about this.

[00:20:37] Here's what we should all do.

[00:20:38] May well have to circle back to this at the end of

[00:20:40] the month.

[00:20:41] Let's judge what the Mariners offense looks like

[00:20:43] from June 14th until the end of the month because

[00:20:47] yes, they play the Marlins in that stretch,

[00:20:49] but in that time period, they have the Rangers,

[00:20:51] the Guardians, the Rays and the twins.

[00:20:53] Let's judge what the offense looks like as a whole

[00:20:56] in what will be about a two to two and a half week

[00:20:59] stretch in that time.

[00:21:00] That'll give us a better idea.

[00:21:02] And I'm sure many of you remember what the twins

[00:21:04] and the Guardians pitching staffs did to this

[00:21:06] offense earlier in the season.

[00:21:08] So yeah, so will this ignite a fire?

[00:21:13] Hopefully we're going to have to wait and see.

[00:21:15] We're going to need a much bigger sample size

[00:21:17] than three games at home against the Angels,

[00:21:19] but you play who you play and the Mariners sweeping

[00:21:22] the Angels positive.

[00:21:24] Absolutely much.

[00:21:25] Yes.

[00:21:26] So before we get to our second storyline,

[00:21:28] let's take a pause here.

[00:21:29] We're going to talk to you guys about our friends

[00:21:30] over Pagaches Pub 85.

[00:21:32] Marins are heating up.

[00:21:34] What do we just say?

[00:21:34] They won three in a row against the Angels.

[00:21:37] They're in first place.

[00:21:38] They've got a nice lead.

[00:21:39] They're a fun team to watch right now.

[00:21:41] Why don't you go out, watch some games with

[00:21:43] your friends and head over there to do it.

[00:21:44] If you head over to Pagaches Pub 85,

[00:21:47] you'll get some good drink specials.

[00:21:48] Show up early too because if you go during

[00:21:50] happy hour two to six p.m.,

[00:21:52] drinks are three and four dollars.

[00:21:53] Those are great deals.

[00:21:54] You can play pool.

[00:21:55] You can play darts.

[00:21:56] You've got everything you need.

[00:21:57] That's all over at Pagaches Pub 85 in Kirkland.

[00:22:02] So we got to talk about Thai France because

[00:22:05] this dude just put together a phenomenal month of

[00:22:09] May all these people on Twitter ready to write

[00:22:12] him off a month into the year,

[00:22:14] three weeks into the year saying that it's

[00:22:18] time to move on and look, look, I mean,

[00:22:19] we understand we understand that it wasn't

[00:22:21] the easiest.

[00:22:22] It wasn't the best year in the world from last

[00:22:24] year.

[00:22:24] Didn't get off to a super hot start,

[00:22:26] but guess what?

[00:22:27] Sometimes these drive line results and

[00:22:30] trainings take a little bit of time to put

[00:22:32] into action.

[00:22:33] Now we sit here on recording June 3rd.

[00:22:37] Thai France put up a 142 WRC plus in the

[00:22:39] month of May.

[00:22:41] He's ahead of the curve.

[00:22:42] JP took a lot longer than this to turn

[00:22:46] it around offensively last year.

[00:22:48] We highlighted this.

[00:22:49] We talked about Thai France early in April.

[00:22:51] I think it was the second week of the season,

[00:22:53] second or third week of the season.

[00:22:54] We talked about Thai France,

[00:22:55] but it was a different conversation.

[00:22:58] So the basis of that first conversation,

[00:23:01] I remember Lyle, his savant page was amazing.

[00:23:03] He had he had got not he'd been hitting the

[00:23:05] ball extremely hard the first couple weeks

[00:23:07] of the season and that was good because

[00:23:09] that's what drive lines strives to do.

[00:23:10] He had talked about how he added three

[00:23:12] miles per hour is bad speed.

[00:23:14] Amazing.

[00:23:15] So that's what that first one was,

[00:23:17] but the results weren't really there yet.

[00:23:21] And I said either the page normalizes and

[00:23:24] a stats go down or it stays up and a stats go up.

[00:23:27] Well, it's kind of in a mix of both because

[00:23:29] if you look if you just take the savant page

[00:23:31] and you look at it now,

[00:23:32] he looks like about an average hitter.

[00:23:35] Give or take is that fair?

[00:23:36] He looks about average when you take a look

[00:23:38] at his current savant profile.

[00:23:40] But the results he's getting and the improvements

[00:23:43] he's making in specific areas,

[00:23:44] especially here in the month of May,

[00:23:46] are very similar to what we saw from

[00:23:48] JP Crawford last season.

[00:23:52] So let's compare to JP last year.

[00:23:53] So JP first three months of last year in 2023

[00:23:59] was fine offensively.

[00:24:00] He was better than his previous 2022 self then,

[00:24:04] but he wasn't quite the JP Crawford

[00:24:06] we saw in the second half of last year.

[00:24:08] It took JP Crawford until July to really

[00:24:11] break out offensively and see the results

[00:24:14] of what he had worked so hard at Drive Line at.

[00:24:18] Ty France, it's only taken a month for him to get

[00:24:20] to a 142 WRC plus,

[00:24:22] which is one of the best marks he's had in his career.

[00:24:24] If we want to shorten the sample size to since May 13th,

[00:24:28] Ty France has a 178 WRC plus.

[00:24:33] That's pretty good.

[00:24:34] That's really good.

[00:24:36] And can I contextualize the JP thing here a little bit

[00:24:38] too just so people have an even better idea?

[00:24:41] From opening day through the end of June last year,

[00:24:44] JP Crawford had a 714 OPS and a 108 WRC plus.

[00:24:48] So to your point,

[00:24:50] that is about what he had done over the course of 21 and 22

[00:24:53] slightly above average hitter.

[00:24:55] Nothing crazy from July 1st till the end of the year

[00:24:59] last year, JP Crawford put up a 915 OPS and a 159 WRC

[00:25:05] plus.

[00:25:06] So yes,

[00:25:07] JP Crawford finished last season top 15 in all

[00:25:10] of baseball in way to runs created plus.

[00:25:13] Most of that was driven by a ridiculous second half.

[00:25:17] And you just said it too.

[00:25:19] Ty France did not wait around till July to have that happen.

[00:25:23] No, he had a tough first month,

[00:25:25] but he turned it around quick in the month of May because

[00:25:29] all of a sudden here he has been awesome.

[00:25:32] And so here's the things that type that are similar from

[00:25:35] Ty France's offensive profile and JP Crawford's offensive

[00:25:38] profile.

[00:25:39] What like where's the where's driveline affecting them?

[00:25:43] So they both seen jumps and average exit velocity.

[00:25:47] Both have seen jumps and hard hit rate.

[00:25:49] The chase rate has improved as well and so has the barrel

[00:25:54] rate.

[00:25:54] So they're getting so in summary,

[00:25:57] sorry, let me revert myself on the chase rate.

[00:25:59] The chase rate I think so the in terms of chase it

[00:26:02] gets better, but they do swing and miss a little bit

[00:26:05] more.

[00:26:05] So Ty France is sacrificing a little bit of his contact

[00:26:09] ability for better plate discipline or better swing

[00:26:13] decision and harder swings overall, which don't necessarily

[00:26:17] result in the most contact, but it results actually in

[00:26:20] them in a higher quality of contact.

[00:26:23] So he's hitting the ball less often, but he's hitting

[00:26:25] it harder and he's hitting at a more optimal angle as

[00:26:28] we see with the increase in barrel rate.

[00:26:31] And that's a good thing to see because that's what

[00:26:33] first baseman need to do.

[00:26:35] They need to hit the ball hard and they need to

[00:26:37] hit the ball in the air.

[00:26:38] Ty France is not going to be Pia Lanzo, but his past

[00:26:42] power production was only acceptable really for a

[00:26:45] first baseman if you were going to hit for high

[00:26:48] average and get on base a lot, which last year he

[00:26:51] didn't do.

[00:26:52] But this year, he's got seven home runs already.

[00:26:55] But note that Ty France's career high in home runs

[00:26:58] is 20 and he is on pace to beat that record by

[00:27:03] a little bit.

[00:27:04] That's great.

[00:27:05] Yeah, it's great.

[00:27:06] And honestly, let's put this into context a bit

[00:27:09] again too.

[00:27:10] Ty France used to strike out under 20% of the time.

[00:27:12] Now he's striking out at about a 23 and a half

[00:27:15] percent clip.

[00:27:16] That's really manageable.

[00:27:18] If you're going to have Ty France hitting the

[00:27:19] ball out of the ballpark, racking up a lot more

[00:27:21] doubles, hitting the ball harder.

[00:27:23] He's also walking a tad bit more than he was

[00:27:25] before.

[00:27:26] If you're going to get all that and he's going

[00:27:28] to strike out a little bit more often.

[00:27:31] I know the Mariners are already striking out a

[00:27:32] bunch, but guess what?

[00:27:33] You live with that to get what is much closer to

[00:27:36] peak Ty France.

[00:27:38] 23% strikeout rate is perfectly manageable.

[00:27:42] And if Ty's going to hit 20 plus bombs, he's going

[00:27:44] to put up an OPS over 800.

[00:27:46] He's going to put up a 125 WRC plus again for

[00:27:49] the year.

[00:27:50] I'm signing all the way up for a slightly

[00:27:52] increased strikeout rate.

[00:27:53] Guess what?

[00:27:54] His his WRC plus right now is at 110.

[00:27:58] It was really low after the month of April.

[00:28:00] He took that thing way up.

[00:28:01] Now he's been 10% above league average as a hitter

[00:28:03] for the whole year.

[00:28:05] Just to context, the power surge this month, he

[00:28:08] had five homers in May.

[00:28:09] He'd only done that twice in his career.

[00:28:11] Did that in April of 22 and June of 21?

[00:28:14] That's it.

[00:28:16] It's the only time we've seen power like that

[00:28:17] from Ty France.

[00:28:18] It feels like now though because of the other

[00:28:21] numbers feels a little bit more sustainable.

[00:28:23] He's no longer up there hitting for average.

[00:28:27] He's trying to do some damage.

[00:28:28] That's what he's doing.

[00:28:29] I will say he is his launch angle did not increase

[00:28:34] like JP's.

[00:28:34] His is pretty similar.

[00:28:36] JP like almost doubled his launch angle last year to

[00:28:39] hit for more power.

[00:28:40] JP doesn't have quite as much raw power as Ty France

[00:28:43] does.

[00:28:44] So he's got to you know pull it and hit it in

[00:28:46] the air a little bit more than Ty does.

[00:28:47] Ty still got a little bit more line drive in his

[00:28:50] swing than JP does.

[00:28:52] But that doesn't still mean he can't hit for

[00:28:53] more power because their numbers are saying

[00:28:55] he's hitting it as hard as he has in his

[00:28:57] career.

[00:28:59] You want some more reason for Ty France optimism

[00:29:02] to sure.

[00:29:04] So a big change for Ty this year compared to

[00:29:07] last year is he's doing damage on sinkers and

[00:29:10] sliders.

[00:29:10] He wasn't doing that last year.

[00:29:12] He's done a pretty nice 180 in terms of the

[00:29:15] results he's had on those pitches.

[00:29:18] But he's not hitting four seem fastballs right

[00:29:20] now really at all.

[00:29:22] He's slugging about 260 against four seem

[00:29:25] fastballs 266 to be exact.

[00:29:28] I don't think that's going to sustain in a

[00:29:30] positive way.

[00:29:31] That like that should go severely up even

[00:29:34] last year when Ty was struggling he slugged

[00:29:36] a little over 340 against fastballs four

[00:29:38] Seamers.

[00:29:39] Yeah.

[00:29:40] So if you look at what you find all that

[00:29:42] combined just to wrap this up if he's

[00:29:45] going to hit this well.

[00:29:46] Ty France in his career has crushed fastballs

[00:29:49] in his best seasons 21 22.

[00:29:51] He dominated against four Seamers.

[00:29:53] So if all of a sudden he's really turning

[00:29:55] this whole thing around and he's already

[00:29:56] hitting two Seamers and sliders when he

[00:29:59] starts hitting four Seamers we're talking

[00:30:02] about real peak Ty France all of a sudden

[00:30:04] again all that combined and you can have a

[00:30:07] Ty France that was the guy he once was in

[00:30:10] 2021 or the first half of 2022.

[00:30:13] And what was the pitch driveline JP

[00:30:15] Crawford was crushing last year is forcing

[00:30:17] fastball.

[00:30:18] Mm hmm.

[00:30:19] That was his pitch.

[00:30:20] Yeah.

[00:30:20] So again give it a little time.

[00:30:23] I don't think there's any way in the world

[00:30:25] Ty France ends the year slugging 266

[00:30:29] against four Seam fastballs.

[00:30:30] That seems nearly impossible.

[00:30:33] I think there's only room for that to go

[00:30:36] severely up.

[00:30:37] So let's see what it looks like and at about

[00:30:39] the all star break.

[00:30:40] I bet you it'll look a lot different.

[00:30:42] So with the way Ty France is hitting now

[00:30:45] it does have the potential to change some

[00:30:47] things for how the Mariners will approach

[00:30:49] this trade deadline and what the roster could

[00:30:50] look like after the all star break.

[00:30:54] I started to think about this the other day

[00:30:56] briefly mentioned it on the live stream.

[00:30:57] I texted you about it.

[00:30:59] You said you were all game for it.

[00:31:00] So let's present it here.

[00:31:02] See what everybody thinks.

[00:31:04] How would you feel about this iteration of

[00:31:07] the Mariners offense post all star break

[00:31:10] if Ty France continues to hit like this

[00:31:14] what if the Mariners do as follows

[00:31:17] the Mariners turn Mitch Garver into the

[00:31:19] backup catcher he plays twice a week

[00:31:22] and just faces lefties where he does his best damage

[00:31:25] Ty France stays stays at first base doing what

[00:31:28] he's doing you call up Tyler Locklear

[00:31:30] assuming he continues to hit in triple A

[00:31:33] him and Ty split time between first base and D.H.

[00:31:36] And the bat you go trade for is a corner

[00:31:38] outfield bat let's say Brent Rucker rather

[00:31:41] than a first base bat.

[00:31:42] I think that's got a chance to do some damage.

[00:31:45] So let's start position by position.

[00:31:47] Let's start a first base because we just

[00:31:49] highlighted France if Ty is hitting like he

[00:31:51] does for the rest of the season.

[00:31:52] He should play every single day at first base bar

[00:31:55] none.

[00:31:55] Okay.

[00:31:57] Well, catch it all I meant with that is with

[00:31:59] with Ty and Locklear potentially splitting

[00:32:02] time at first base that's not taking Ty France

[00:32:03] out of the lineup that's just getting him

[00:32:05] some days off his feet.

[00:32:06] It gets Locklear some playing time in the field.

[00:32:09] It's just like it's even playing time.

[00:32:11] He should be playing every day though.

[00:32:12] Yeah, it's the summary there either at

[00:32:14] first base or D.H.

[00:32:15] Yes, Ty should be in the lineup every day.

[00:32:17] Right.

[00:32:17] Presuming he hits this way the rest of the season.

[00:32:20] So yes, okay, that's good.

[00:32:21] So then you're taking your D.H.

[00:32:23] You're moving a behind the plate in Mitch Garver.

[00:32:25] So I'm assuming Sebi's off the roster at this

[00:32:27] point.

[00:32:28] So Garver goes back there and he is your backup

[00:32:31] catcher.

[00:32:31] First of all, I'd mentioned in a last week's

[00:32:33] podcast that I liked what I saw from Garver

[00:32:36] behind the plate.

[00:32:37] It looked fine, looked serviceable that back

[00:32:39] there in a hopes to wake up as bad.

[00:32:41] It's like, okay, so when the Mariners face

[00:32:43] lefties on the mound.

[00:32:46] That's a reason to get Mitch Garver back

[00:32:48] behind the plate and give Cal Raleigh a day off.

[00:32:50] That is as much as getting Garver and his

[00:32:54] 122 WRC plus against lefties in the lineup

[00:32:57] behind the plate and like less thinking again,

[00:33:00] less thinking at the plate and more optimizing

[00:33:03] Mitch Garver for success both on defense

[00:33:05] and on offense as well.

[00:33:07] And this also ties in to give Cal Raleigh some

[00:33:09] more days off because this dude I mean is

[00:33:11] just getting beat up more and more and more

[00:33:14] and he could use some days off.

[00:33:16] If Cal could get a couple of days off a week,

[00:33:19] he would really benefit from that.

[00:33:20] I think he would because he continues to take

[00:33:22] a beating yet another one off his off the

[00:33:25] bottom of his hand on on Sunday.

[00:33:28] I mean, he is just taking absolute beating.

[00:33:30] So with Mitch Garver going back behind

[00:33:32] the plate would allow for that.

[00:33:34] Okay, then so that's those three and then

[00:33:37] trading for like a Brent Rooker corner

[00:33:39] outfield like yeah, because that's something

[00:33:42] the Mariners could need and Luke Raleigh

[00:33:45] has been good.

[00:33:46] Dom Kinzon's been good this season when

[00:33:48] he's been on the field, but the Mariners

[00:33:51] don't have that high upside corner outfield

[00:33:53] there that can anchor anchor.

[00:33:57] I don't know if anchors are right word

[00:33:58] because these guys aren't supposed to anchor

[00:34:01] a lineup, but the out the corner outfield

[00:34:04] production they've had this year has been

[00:34:06] averaged to slightly above average

[00:34:08] offensively.

[00:34:09] If they want to go out there and make a

[00:34:11] true splash and really at the deadline

[00:34:14] add to this lineup and make themselves

[00:34:16] significantly better.

[00:34:17] This solution right here gives you that

[00:34:19] off gives you that flexibility go out

[00:34:21] there and grab a guy in a corner

[00:34:23] outfield like Brent Rooker.

[00:34:24] So then I think that makes a whole lot of

[00:34:26] sense.

[00:34:27] And we didn't even tie in Lockler that

[00:34:29] much here.

[00:34:30] You're talking about a guy that look

[00:34:31] he's only had about a week in Tacoma

[00:34:32] so far, but if he continues to do

[00:34:35] what he's done at every level of the

[00:34:36] minor leagues, if he's played 40 or so

[00:34:39] games in Tacoma by the trade deadline

[00:34:44] and he's got another 130 or so WRC

[00:34:47] plus if not higher.

[00:34:49] How can you not bring him up at that

[00:34:50] point and with all the puzzle pieces

[00:34:53] aligning together the way we're

[00:34:55] outlining him.

[00:34:56] He's got a he's got room to play.

[00:34:58] It's not taking away playing time from

[00:35:00] Ty France.

[00:35:01] It lets Mitch Garver optimize his

[00:35:03] strengths and they can still go trade

[00:35:05] for a real outfield that with the

[00:35:07] potential for Lockler to come up and

[00:35:09] provide this offense a real jolt with

[00:35:11] hit and power.

[00:35:14] Now I'm assuming this means at that

[00:35:17] point that second base is still not a

[00:35:18] pressing issue.

[00:35:21] No, you have to roll with Polanco

[00:35:23] at that point.

[00:35:24] Right.

[00:35:25] And again, I don't think the

[00:35:26] Mariners are moving on from him

[00:35:27] this year.

[00:35:28] I don't think so either, but I'm

[00:35:29] assuming nothing drastic changes in

[00:35:31] two months like we don't look at

[00:35:33] two months like there's a certain

[00:35:35] current Oakland A starting every day

[00:35:37] at second base for the Mariners.

[00:35:39] That's what I'm assuming.

[00:35:40] I'm assuming things are fine at

[00:35:42] second base in two months, whether

[00:35:43] it's Ryan Bliss, whether it's

[00:35:45] Jorge and Polanco and Ryan bliss

[00:35:47] splitting time, whether it's just

[00:35:49] Jorge Polanco, however it is that

[00:35:52] the issue at second base is not

[00:35:54] bigger than saying, OK, we're OK

[00:35:56] like supplementing our corner

[00:35:57] outfield spots, which they have

[00:35:59] a lot of corner outfielders.

[00:36:00] They just don't have a Brent

[00:36:01] Rooker level level corner

[00:36:03] outfielder right now.

[00:36:05] Right.

[00:36:06] I got to tell you, I like that idea

[00:36:08] in terms of the Mariners taking a

[00:36:09] jump offensively.

[00:36:10] I think that could do a lot.

[00:36:11] And again, I think that fits a

[00:36:13] lot of puzzle pieces in terms

[00:36:15] of again, your Keith and Ty

[00:36:16] France around your getting

[00:36:18] Locklear's time, your optimizing

[00:36:20] Mitch Garver.

[00:36:20] You're still trading for a real

[00:36:22] bat feels like we're checking

[00:36:23] a lot of boxes here.

[00:36:24] Yeah.

[00:36:26] Certainly.

[00:36:27] It's like I like the idea I do

[00:36:29] and it gives it.

[00:36:30] I think the finding a pathway

[00:36:33] for Locklear to play in the Big

[00:36:35] League this year, which I think

[00:36:36] you and I both think he will.

[00:36:38] It's going to necessitate

[00:36:40] something creative because the

[00:36:41] current Mariners roster cannot

[00:36:42] accommodate him because he's not

[00:36:44] playing third.

[00:36:46] You're not moving Ty France over

[00:36:47] to third.

[00:36:48] You have a DH and you have a

[00:36:50] first baseman.

[00:36:51] So there's no spot for him

[00:36:52] barring a trade.

[00:36:53] So if you want to find a spot

[00:36:55] for him on the Big League

[00:36:56] roster this year, this is

[00:36:58] what's going to need to happen

[00:36:59] or a version of this is what's

[00:37:01] going to need to happen.

[00:37:03] Right.

[00:37:03] And it's got the potential to be

[00:37:05] a really good version.

[00:37:07] So that's all hitting Lyle, but

[00:37:09] with pitching Ninja, we did ask

[00:37:10] the ask ask him a hitting

[00:37:12] question this time, which was

[00:37:13] fun.

[00:37:13] Actually, I think we asked him

[00:37:14] a couple of hitting questions,

[00:37:16] but you know, I'm as Rob

[00:37:17] Friedman.

[00:37:18] He

[00:37:20] knows just about everything

[00:37:21] about pitching and he could

[00:37:22] not emphasize enough when

[00:37:23] we're having him on how much

[00:37:24] he loves talking about this

[00:37:27] Mariners pitching staff and

[00:37:28] we got into it.

[00:37:29] We are able to, you know, ask him

[00:37:30] about some more specifics like

[00:37:31] we did last time when we chatted

[00:37:33] with him last year.

[00:37:34] It's a lot of fun having Rob on

[00:37:36] one of the the more notable

[00:37:37] guests we have.

[00:37:38] So we really appreciate some of

[00:37:40] the time that he spends with

[00:37:42] us to break down some Mariners

[00:37:44] pitching.

[00:37:44] I really don't think there are

[00:37:45] many people who do it better

[00:37:47] than he does.

[00:37:48] And it's also good timing as

[00:37:50] well that Ryan Bliss makes

[00:37:52] his debut in the window that

[00:37:54] we have Rob Freeman on because

[00:37:55] as he explains in this

[00:37:56] interview, he's got a great

[00:37:58] connection to Ryan Bliss.

[00:37:59] He's a huge Ryan Bliss fan and

[00:38:01] he speaks glowingly of the

[00:38:02] Mariners second baseman.

[00:38:05] Yeah, he does such an awesome

[00:38:06] dude.

[00:38:07] You guys see him plenty on

[00:38:08] Twitter on Instagram, wherever

[00:38:10] you follow him and he's got a

[00:38:12] huge following for a reason.

[00:38:13] He's smart.

[00:38:14] He's creative.

[00:38:15] He is certainly a ball knower.

[00:38:17] We love having him on.

[00:38:19] We love having him on

[00:38:21] talking pitching with them

[00:38:22] talking Mariners pitching with

[00:38:23] them and we don't just do

[00:38:25] rotation.

[00:38:25] We get into some bullpen talk

[00:38:27] too because there's some guys in

[00:38:28] that bullpen with some really,

[00:38:29] really disgusting stuff that we

[00:38:31] wanted to ask him about and he

[00:38:33] hits it all really well.

[00:38:34] That's why he's one of our favorite

[00:38:35] guests to have on.

[00:38:37] Let's not keep you any longer.

[00:38:38] Let's get to our interview with

[00:38:40] Pitching Ninja Rob Friedman.

[00:38:45] All right, we got the pitching

[00:38:46] ninja on Rob Friedman.

[00:38:48] He's a pitching analyst for

[00:38:49] Fox Sports Major League Baseball

[00:38:51] Peacock and FanDuel.

[00:38:53] You can hear his new podcast

[00:38:54] The Baseball Dojo that he

[00:38:56] does alongside another friend

[00:38:57] of the podcast, Michael Fisher of

[00:38:59] Kodify.

[00:39:00] Rob, thanks so much for taking

[00:39:01] some time to join us here today.

[00:39:02] Wanted to start you off with

[00:39:04] something that I don't know how

[00:39:06] you process.

[00:39:07] How have you filled the matte

[00:39:09] brash sized hole in your heart

[00:39:11] this season?

[00:39:12] Oh my God, there's been so many

[00:39:13] holes in my heart with my hearts.

[00:39:16] I don't have more than one.

[00:39:17] Maybe I do have more than one.

[00:39:19] You know, with all these

[00:39:21] pitchers going down from,

[00:39:22] you know, we don't have Spencer

[00:39:23] Strider, Dustin May hasn't

[00:39:24] thrown a pitch.

[00:39:25] Jacob DeGrom, Max Scherzer

[00:39:28] Matt Brash, it's all just pain.

[00:39:31] It's pain for me and luckily

[00:39:33] there are other guys that have

[00:39:34] stepped up, but there's nobody

[00:39:36] if Matt Brash is caliber slider.

[00:39:38] I mean, it's just not like just

[00:39:40] gonna have to cry.

[00:39:42] Well, I guess the good news is

[00:39:43] from what they say,

[00:39:45] it'll be a little less recovery

[00:39:47] time than some starters like

[00:39:49] for relievers.

[00:39:49] They think it'll be a 12 month

[00:39:51] thing.

[00:39:51] So hopefully you can get back

[00:39:52] by about this time next year

[00:39:53] because, you know, we miss

[00:39:55] watching them.

[00:39:55] That's for sure.

[00:39:56] And the Mariners could use them.

[00:39:58] Baseball is better with Matt Brash

[00:39:59] in it.

[00:40:00] So yeah, absolutely.

[00:40:01] Wanting back as soon as possible.

[00:40:02] Great dude, nasty stuff.

[00:40:05] Great combination.

[00:40:06] We mentioned your podcast on the

[00:40:08] start.

[00:40:08] I want to get into some pitchers

[00:40:09] here in a second.

[00:40:09] We mentioned your new podcast

[00:40:11] that you started with

[00:40:13] with Michael Fisher and your

[00:40:15] producer, Will, I believe.

[00:40:17] And you guys have been doing

[00:40:18] that for a couple of months now.

[00:40:19] You know, you had the old

[00:40:20] pitching Ninja podcast before.

[00:40:23] Now this is a new expenditure.

[00:40:25] What are you guys?

[00:40:26] What did you want to accomplish

[00:40:27] with this new show?

[00:40:29] Really just breaking out, you

[00:40:30] know, the goings on every week,

[00:40:33] diving into pitching even deeper

[00:40:35] than I had.

[00:40:36] I mean, Fisher obviously never

[00:40:38] leaves any stone unturned.

[00:40:40] And between both of us, we

[00:40:41] probably see every pitch multiple

[00:40:43] times in any given week.

[00:40:45] So it's a fun discussion.

[00:40:46] I mean, I like bouncing stuff

[00:40:49] off him.

[00:40:49] I think he's a very smart guy.

[00:40:51] Does some great analysis and

[00:40:53] great pitch mapping for pitchers.

[00:40:55] So he brings the stats side of

[00:40:58] it and I can bring the just the

[00:41:00] more the description of visual

[00:41:02] side, my overall impressions

[00:41:04] stuff.

[00:41:04] And Will, Will's just pure

[00:41:06] coming.

[00:41:07] So no, we got it's fun.

[00:41:09] I mean, we all get along well.

[00:41:10] We actually rented a house

[00:41:13] together during spring training

[00:41:15] and hung out with the Mariners

[00:41:17] a lot.

[00:41:18] So that was a blast.

[00:41:19] Yeah, it was fun to see

[00:41:20] and you guys walk around

[00:41:21] the patio.

[00:41:22] Unfortunately, we missed you

[00:41:22] guys by like a week.

[00:41:23] That would have been that

[00:41:24] would have been it would have

[00:41:25] been fun to run into you down

[00:41:27] there.

[00:41:27] But like so cool that you got

[00:41:29] like that patio opportunity.

[00:41:31] We we did some content on the

[00:41:32] area too.

[00:41:33] So super cool.

[00:41:34] So one of the guys I think

[00:41:35] both of us talked to down

[00:41:36] there at spring training that

[00:41:38] I want to start with is Bryce

[00:41:40] Miller.

[00:41:41] He is this this new splitter

[00:41:43] that he's been throwing this

[00:41:44] year.

[00:41:44] That's been really good, but

[00:41:46] it's almost half splitter,

[00:41:49] half knuckleball.

[00:41:50] How does that work?

[00:41:52] You know, the Mariners,

[00:41:53] especially he and Gilbert have

[00:41:55] perfected the very low spin

[00:41:58] knuckleball knuckleball splitter

[00:42:00] and partly it's because of how

[00:42:01] deep they put it in their hands

[00:42:03] and it's one of their focuses

[00:42:05] takes spin.

[00:42:06] They learn off each other really

[00:42:07] well.

[00:42:08] All those guys do Kirby.

[00:42:10] You watch them get together and

[00:42:11] this is just what they do.

[00:42:12] They're like experimenting

[00:42:13] with thumb position.

[00:42:16] I know they studied code

[00:42:17] Isengha a lot his grip and

[00:42:20] I mean looked at my interview

[00:42:21] with code Isengha and

[00:42:22] dissected that pitch and then

[00:42:24] made their own changes to it.

[00:42:26] But yeah, like it's a very low

[00:42:27] spin wicked pitched and

[00:42:30] you know, he's turned into a guy.

[00:42:32] He was Mr.

[00:42:33] Pure fastball.

[00:42:34] Now he's just not any like

[00:42:36] he's a pure pitcher and love

[00:42:38] the way challenges guys.

[00:42:39] I think that splitter is a great

[00:42:40] pitch for him because to me

[00:42:42] splitters work well when

[00:42:43] someone's very aggressive.

[00:42:46] Works really well with a guy

[00:42:47] that throws aggressive fastballs.

[00:42:48] Do you have to let anything

[00:42:49] off yours the same?

[00:42:50] Aggressiveness hitters are seeing

[00:42:53] the same like full hand.

[00:42:56] You're not going to you're not

[00:42:57] turning it to the side.

[00:42:58] So they're seeing it like a

[00:42:59] fastball could get the fat hand

[00:43:01] coming at you and it just

[00:43:03] doesn't get there ever.

[00:43:05] How many other splitters are

[00:43:06] even like this in baseball just

[00:43:07] in terms of the unpredictability

[00:43:09] of it the way you don't always

[00:43:10] know where it's going.

[00:43:11] I feel like you don't see it

[00:43:12] that often.

[00:43:13] Now his is unique exactly

[00:43:14] for that reason like he said

[00:43:17] it's by mistake.

[00:43:17] It's not by plan.

[00:43:18] I've gotten contacted by some

[00:43:20] MLB analysts that asked me like

[00:43:22] hey when you talk to him does

[00:43:23] he change his grip?

[00:43:24] But does he do and he doesn't

[00:43:26] like it's just I think

[00:43:27] sometimes when he wants when

[00:43:28] he holds on to it a little

[00:43:29] longer it does something

[00:43:30] else.

[00:43:31] He doesn't plan this out

[00:43:32] which it makes it even

[00:43:34] tougher I think because if

[00:43:36] he doesn't know where it's

[00:43:37] going then how's the hitter

[00:43:38] going to know where it's

[00:43:39] going like your hitters

[00:43:40] got to hit it.

[00:43:41] He's only throwing it so

[00:43:43] it's really that parts very

[00:43:45] unique.

[00:43:46] I think he has the largest

[00:43:47] spread as far as sometimes

[00:43:49] it goes armside sometimes

[00:43:50] it goes glove side of any of

[00:43:53] any pitch in baseball.

[00:43:54] So yes it's a definitely

[00:43:56] a unique pitch part of it's

[00:43:57] the trick is a low spin but

[00:43:59] also part of it is just his

[00:44:00] grip and how he releases it

[00:44:02] and what he's how late

[00:44:03] he holds on to the ball

[00:44:04] sometimes is only can only

[00:44:07] a certain hand size throw

[00:44:09] this ball can only a certain

[00:44:11] arm slot throw this

[00:44:12] ball.

[00:44:14] It depends like so it used

[00:44:16] to be everybody thought only

[00:44:17] people with big hands could

[00:44:18] throw a splitter your Logan

[00:44:20] Logan Gilbert's got the biggest

[00:44:21] hand you will ever see on this

[00:44:24] earth.

[00:44:24] I mean like I'm very annoying.

[00:44:25] Yeah they're just ridiculous.

[00:44:28] I don't think Millers are that

[00:44:30] huge which actually maybe adds

[00:44:32] the the unpredictability of

[00:44:34] it because like I talked to

[00:44:37] Roger Clemens about it and

[00:44:39] Clemens obviously had a really

[00:44:40] good split and he said that

[00:44:42] some guys with big hands.

[00:44:43] It's a true splitter is

[00:44:44] you're not there's no space

[00:44:46] between your hand and the ball

[00:44:48] but where there is space

[00:44:50] between your hand and the ball

[00:44:51] but some of the guys with

[00:44:52] smaller hands and he was

[00:44:53] pointing out like he went to

[00:44:54] Japan and taught everybody

[00:44:56] to splitter and they were

[00:44:58] throwing more for calls because

[00:44:59] it's deeper in their hand

[00:45:00] because their hands were less

[00:45:02] big.

[00:45:03] The deeper is in your hand

[00:45:04] the more spin you take off it

[00:45:06] and you know it's just a

[00:45:07] variation of a splitter so

[00:45:09] you can get it done a

[00:45:09] bunch of different ways

[00:45:11] there's not one hand size

[00:45:12] they can do it but your

[00:45:13] hand size plays into how it

[00:45:14] performs and it's not bad or

[00:45:16] good is just different like

[00:45:17] could I say could I sing has

[00:45:19] got very long fingers so his

[00:45:21] is weird like he throws a fork

[00:45:23] but you know shaking hands

[00:45:24] with the dude is almost like

[00:45:26] his hands double jointed like

[00:45:27] I see why he's got a unique

[00:45:30] tool in his in his toolbox

[00:45:32] is because his hand is

[00:45:33] uniquely shaped you have

[00:45:34] like someone like Pedro

[00:45:35] Martinez didn't throw a

[00:45:36] splitter but had unique

[00:45:37] characteristics of his hand

[00:45:39] that made his change

[00:45:40] up really good so you take

[00:45:41] advantage of your God

[00:45:42] given stuff some guys have

[00:45:44] big hands like Logan Gilbert

[00:45:45] smaller hand maybe you're just

[00:45:46] taking a lot of spin off it.

[00:45:49] The last time you were on

[00:45:50] with us Brian Wu had not even

[00:45:52] debuted and now over the

[00:45:53] last year he has become for

[00:45:55] me arguably my favorite

[00:45:57] pitcher in this rotation

[00:45:58] to watch and part of it is

[00:45:59] because of the ridiculous

[00:46:00] two fastballs he throws

[00:46:02] how great the stuff is

[00:46:03] how effective they are paired

[00:46:05] with what everybody talks

[00:46:06] about with the fastball

[00:46:08] rise and the crazy wacky

[00:46:10] release angle so all that

[00:46:12] combined like from your eyes

[00:46:14] what makes those fastballs

[00:46:15] so tough for hitters to pick

[00:46:17] up on.

[00:46:18] Yeah, it's exactly that I mean

[00:46:19] it you know it's not

[00:46:21] showed in Monaga but it's

[00:46:22] somewhat in that that same

[00:46:24] idea when you have a lower

[00:46:25] release angle and you have

[00:46:26] a lot of induced vertical

[00:46:27] break you can live at the

[00:46:29] top of the zone hitters

[00:46:30] just aren't able to figure

[00:46:31] it out because they're used

[00:46:32] to seeing average and when

[00:46:33] you're above average

[00:46:34] at some of this stuff

[00:46:35] their mind it just plays

[00:46:37] tricks on them they have

[00:46:37] to consciously tell themselves

[00:46:40] to swing at a certain

[00:46:40] spot and once they do

[00:46:42] it opens up your slider and

[00:46:43] other stuff that

[00:46:44] operates at the lower part

[00:46:46] of the zone which is what

[00:46:47] means show to does really

[00:46:48] well but who does it well

[00:46:50] to but mixing his pitches

[00:46:52] everything he's just a great

[00:46:53] dude like that dude is

[00:46:54] is a fantastic guy

[00:46:56] love the way he pitches

[00:46:58] I love his aggressiveness

[00:46:59] and this one thing you'll see

[00:47:00] on the whole staff right

[00:47:02] like lot of aggressive

[00:47:03] pitchers and it goes

[00:47:06] from I mean that starts

[00:47:07] on the top down

[00:47:08] where it's the Mariners

[00:47:10] actually affirmatively

[00:47:11] wanting guys who attack

[00:47:12] the zone live in the zone

[00:47:14] not afraid to fill it up

[00:47:16] and just say here's my best

[00:47:18] stuff go hit it

[00:47:19] and we was a perfect example

[00:47:21] of that he's a

[00:47:21] he's just

[00:47:23] unrelenting when it comes

[00:47:24] to throwing but

[00:47:25] so many guys on the staff

[00:47:26] are right like you have

[00:47:27] been castillo is

[00:47:28] underlining as well.

[00:47:30] Is there another pitch

[00:47:32] in who's arsenal that

[00:47:33] you see that as a chance

[00:47:34] to take a Bryce Miller

[00:47:36] splitter level jump.

[00:47:38] I mean

[00:47:40] I can see him adding

[00:47:41] a pitch like I think that's

[00:47:42] the one thing that you'll see

[00:47:43] also with Mariners pitchers

[00:47:45] is they're not afraid to add

[00:47:46] pitches and tinker with

[00:47:48] their arsenals.

[00:47:49] You see guys adding a pitch

[00:47:50] and all of a sudden

[00:47:50] it's their best pitch now

[00:47:52] he's younger

[00:47:53] less experienced

[00:47:54] I think he wanted to keep

[00:47:55] it simple.

[00:47:56] He also told me something

[00:47:57] weird about his fastball

[00:47:58] which I don't know if it

[00:47:59] plays into or not.

[00:48:00] He grips it differently

[00:48:02] just randomly

[00:48:03] like he doesn't have

[00:48:03] one specific grip on his

[00:48:05] fastball like guys will

[00:48:06] grip their force in a certain

[00:48:07] way.

[00:48:08] He may flip it sometimes

[00:48:09] and he said some

[00:48:10] he does it just because

[00:48:11] with the pitch clock

[00:48:13] he wants to get used to

[00:48:14] being in a rush and picking

[00:48:15] it up and

[00:48:16] maybe that changes it for

[00:48:17] hitters too.

[00:48:19] I don't know

[00:48:20] it could

[00:48:21] maybe they read it

[00:48:21] differently when he flips

[00:48:22] the ball inadvertently

[00:48:24] something like that.

[00:48:25] Is there a pitch though?

[00:48:26] I mean maybe a splitter

[00:48:27] I can see him adding

[00:48:28] something that would be

[00:48:30] nasty.

[00:48:31] I don't know that he

[00:48:32] has to right now like

[00:48:33] he's

[00:48:35] what happens is once

[00:48:36] hitters make that adjustment

[00:48:37] then you start looking

[00:48:38] for other things

[00:48:39] and Miller did that right.

[00:48:40] Like hitters figured out

[00:48:42] a little bit about his

[00:48:43] fastball and they're

[00:48:44] ready to attack it.

[00:48:44] So what is he has another

[00:48:46] pitch that looks like the

[00:48:47] fastball aggressiveness

[00:48:48] was and dive so

[00:48:50] I can see him adding

[00:48:51] something but right now

[00:48:52] I don't I mean

[00:48:54] I don't know.

[00:48:54] I think he's good as is.

[00:48:57] If we're just going to

[00:48:57] make our way down this

[00:48:58] rotation and keep going

[00:48:59] if we get to Kirby here

[00:49:01] as the third out of five

[00:49:02] guys are we getting

[00:49:03] more knuckleballs?

[00:49:04] What's your take on this?

[00:49:05] He told me he was

[00:49:06] going to throw more

[00:49:07] knuckleballs.

[00:49:08] I was promised knuckleballs

[00:49:09] and I'm not getting him.

[00:49:10] What is up with that?

[00:49:11] Like that's not fair.

[00:49:13] You know, I think he struggles

[00:49:15] with it because he's

[00:49:15] such a command guy

[00:49:16] and hates the waste pitches

[00:49:17] that he doesn't want to waste

[00:49:19] a pitch that you can't

[00:49:19] really command.

[00:49:21] But come on.

[00:49:23] Give us some knuckleballs

[00:49:24] right?

[00:49:25] Yeah, one last year

[00:49:26] was so good.

[00:49:27] Yeah, what was your reaction

[00:49:28] when you saw him throw

[00:49:29] that pitch?

[00:49:30] All right, but first thing

[00:49:31] I did was

[00:49:32] I in my mind

[00:49:34] I was like

[00:49:35] that pitch moved

[00:49:36] differently than anything

[00:49:36] else I've seen Kirby

[00:49:37] throw that had to be

[00:49:40] a knuckleball.

[00:49:40] I slowed it down,

[00:49:41] figured like nobody called it

[00:49:42] out when he did it.

[00:49:44] So I was like, yeah,

[00:49:45] that's a knuckleball.

[00:49:46] And then I think I might

[00:49:48] have even asked him.

[00:49:49] I was like, dude,

[00:49:50] what's the story with that?

[00:49:50] It was a Wakefield tribute.

[00:49:53] But he did say

[00:49:54] you would throw more.

[00:49:55] I mean,

[00:49:56] what's what's crazy

[00:49:57] about that too is

[00:49:58] it wasn't just

[00:49:59] like he threw it to

[00:50:00] any old hitter.

[00:50:01] No, he's facing Corey

[00:50:02] Seeger and all of a sudden

[00:50:03] he breaks it out

[00:50:04] and totally gets them.

[00:50:05] You're talking about one

[00:50:06] of the best hitters

[00:50:06] in the game

[00:50:07] and it looked like

[00:50:08] for the first time

[00:50:08] he'd ever thrown it.

[00:50:09] Look like he'd thrown

[00:50:10] it a million times.

[00:50:11] Yeah.

[00:50:11] And the thing is

[00:50:12] he really has so he told me

[00:50:14] that he'd been thrown

[00:50:14] it in Little League

[00:50:15] and he knows like

[00:50:16] he said it.

[00:50:17] I know it's a filthy pitch.

[00:50:18] I said, did you know

[00:50:19] it was nasty

[00:50:19] when you throw it?

[00:50:20] He's like, oh yeah.

[00:50:21] Second I threw it.

[00:50:22] I knew it was nasty.

[00:50:24] He's definitely not shy

[00:50:25] to say his pitches

[00:50:26] are nasty

[00:50:27] when they are

[00:50:28] and that was like

[00:50:30] you saw it

[00:50:30] and moved twice.

[00:50:31] It was ridiculous.

[00:50:33] He should throw it more

[00:50:34] from just saying

[00:50:35] is it for a big league

[00:50:36] pitcher like that

[00:50:37] who had who had never

[00:50:39] thrown a knuckleball

[00:50:40] in a game

[00:50:41] like that before again

[00:50:42] just to just to randomly

[00:50:43] do that

[00:50:44] just randomly once

[00:50:45] it's great

[00:50:45] and then you

[00:50:46] almost we've almost

[00:50:47] forgotten about it now

[00:50:48] because he doesn't

[00:50:49] throw it.

[00:50:50] Yeah,

[00:50:50] I mean he threw

[00:50:51] a top tiered

[00:50:52] in one of my knuckleball

[00:50:53] of the year

[00:50:54] and you know

[00:50:55] Matt Walden

[00:50:56] through knuckleballs

[00:50:56] all year

[00:50:57] and Kirby through one

[00:50:58] and it was legit

[00:50:59] like I was being objective

[00:51:01] it was the filthiest

[00:51:02] knuckleball

[00:51:02] one of the filthy ones

[00:51:03] you'll ever see

[00:51:04] and

[00:51:05] you know

[00:51:05] maybe if we keep saying it

[00:51:07] he'll throw it some more.

[00:51:09] I do think he's been struggling

[00:51:10] lately like you know

[00:51:11] that's it's

[00:51:12] it can be frustrating

[00:51:13] because the stuff is really good

[00:51:14] and we all see it

[00:51:15] we all see his command

[00:51:17] is off the charts

[00:51:18] we know he knows

[00:51:19] how to pitch

[00:51:20] and it's just like a

[00:51:21] you know bad string of stuff

[00:51:22] and sometimes that happens

[00:51:24] but maybe the knuckleball

[00:51:25] is the key to getting back.

[00:51:26] Last thing on Kirby

[00:51:28] he throws a splitter too

[00:51:29] but it's a different profile

[00:51:31] than Bryce's

[00:51:32] and Logan's

[00:51:32] what is the profile

[00:51:33] of that pitch?

[00:51:34] You know

[00:51:35] I haven't checked it recently

[00:51:36] because I haven't seen him

[00:51:37] throw it as much

[00:51:38] I love that pitch

[00:51:39] when he was throwing it more

[00:51:40] I don't

[00:51:41] I haven't seen him

[00:51:42] throw as many filthy ones

[00:51:44] lately

[00:51:44] so I haven't seen

[00:51:45] if it's changed

[00:51:46] or not

[00:51:47] it's definitely not as low

[00:51:48] a spin rate as somebody

[00:51:50] like

[00:51:51] like Gilbert's

[00:51:51] to me he jumped out

[00:51:52] I almost had a nickname

[00:51:53] for his

[00:51:54] because I thought it was

[00:51:55] unfair

[00:51:55] and then he kind of moved

[00:51:56] away from it

[00:51:57] a little bit

[00:51:58] maybe because

[00:51:59] it's unpredictability

[00:52:00] of that pitch too

[00:52:02] but I'd love to see him

[00:52:02] throw that

[00:52:03] that

[00:52:04] that more

[00:52:04] Kirby's doesn't have that

[00:52:06] profile necessarily

[00:52:07] I think he copied

[00:52:08] Gosman's

[00:52:09] and then just varied it

[00:52:10] a little bit

[00:52:11] not a bad guy to copy

[00:52:13] so

[00:52:14] I don't think it profiles

[00:52:15] as good as

[00:52:15] Gosman's

[00:52:16] because very few's are

[00:52:17] but very few people

[00:52:18] throw that

[00:52:19] but

[00:52:19] it's

[00:52:20] certainly a pitch

[00:52:21] to keep people off

[00:52:22] his fastball

[00:52:23] Okay, we lied.

[00:52:24] I actually have one more

[00:52:25] on Kirby

[00:52:25] because you talked

[00:52:26] about he's had

[00:52:26] a few up and down

[00:52:27] starts here

[00:52:28] in the last month

[00:52:28] or so

[00:52:29] what does he

[00:52:30] have to do

[00:52:31] for a guy

[00:52:31] that we've often

[00:52:32] tabbed having

[00:52:32] having the highest

[00:52:33] upside in this

[00:52:34] rotation.

[00:52:34] What does he have to do

[00:52:36] to take another

[00:52:36] step forward

[00:52:37] from where he

[00:52:38] already is

[00:52:39] Yeah, so talking

[00:52:40] to hitters

[00:52:41] hitters say

[00:52:42] they like

[00:52:43] hitting against

[00:52:43] George Kirby

[00:52:44] because they

[00:52:45] know he's

[00:52:45] going to be

[00:52:45] in the zone

[00:52:46] like

[00:52:47] that is a feedback

[00:52:48] and

[00:52:48] and Kirby would

[00:52:49] say that too

[00:52:49] he loves

[00:52:50] being in the zone

[00:52:51] so maybe some

[00:52:52] more unpredictability

[00:52:54] I know

[00:52:54] Cal loves

[00:52:55] calling fastballs

[00:52:56] they love

[00:52:57] he loves

[00:52:57] George Kirby's

[00:52:58] fastball

[00:52:58] and he calls

[00:52:59] what he

[00:52:59] doesn't think

[00:52:59] he can hit

[00:53:00] so

[00:53:01] yeah, I love

[00:53:02] that about

[00:53:02] the way they work it

[00:53:04] but it might be

[00:53:05] good to throw in

[00:53:06] some other stuff

[00:53:07] just to keep

[00:53:07] hitters

[00:53:08] a little off balance

[00:53:09] that may not

[00:53:09] square it up

[00:53:10] but

[00:53:11] putting a ball

[00:53:11] and play

[00:53:13] you know

[00:53:13] there can be

[00:53:14] bad things

[00:53:14] that happen

[00:53:15] and

[00:53:16] if you live

[00:53:16] in the zone

[00:53:17] the whole time

[00:53:18] and aren't

[00:53:18] really mixing

[00:53:19] it up

[00:53:19] as much

[00:53:21] that could come back

[00:53:22] to bite you

[00:53:22] as it has

[00:53:23] done

[00:53:24] because

[00:53:25] hitters

[00:53:25] don't have

[00:53:25] they're

[00:53:26] not uncomfortable

[00:53:26] they're

[00:53:27] sitting

[00:53:27] they're going

[00:53:28] all right

[00:53:28] I know

[00:53:28] it's going to be

[00:53:28] I may not

[00:53:29] square it up

[00:53:30] but I'm not

[00:53:30] going to be

[00:53:30] ducking

[00:53:31] out of the way

[00:53:31] of it

[00:53:31] I'm not going to be

[00:53:32] to be swinging

[00:53:32] the balls

[00:53:33] I know I'm going to be

[00:53:34] swinging to something

[00:53:34] that's a stride

[00:53:36] onto the next

[00:53:37] picture in this

[00:53:38] rotation

[00:53:38] Rob

[00:53:39] Logan Gilbert

[00:53:40] the ultimate

[00:53:40] tinker

[00:53:41] the ad's

[00:53:41] pitches

[00:53:42] he's got all these

[00:53:43] weird devices

[00:53:43] in his bag

[00:53:44] as he

[00:53:44] continues to evolve

[00:53:46] as a pitcher

[00:53:46] seemingly adding

[00:53:47] something

[00:53:47] every year

[00:53:48] last year

[00:53:49] was the splitter

[00:53:50] and we've seen him

[00:53:50] bring it over

[00:53:51] to this year

[00:53:52] but he's also got

[00:53:52] this cutter

[00:53:53] now

[00:53:53] and it like

[00:53:54] it grades out

[00:53:54] supremely

[00:53:56] well

[00:53:56] what does it

[00:53:57] say about

[00:53:58] Logan Gilbert

[00:53:58] being a guy

[00:53:59] that is

[00:53:59] so willing

[00:54:00] to

[00:54:02] be a personal

[00:54:03] and they all

[00:54:03] turned out

[00:54:04] to be

[00:54:04] pretty good

[00:54:05] he's a star

[00:54:06] like

[00:54:06] Logan Gilbert

[00:54:07] is a stud

[00:54:08] I

[00:54:09] I

[00:54:09] expect him to be

[00:54:10] in

[00:54:10] Saiyung

[00:54:11] contention

[00:54:11] one of these

[00:54:12] next few years

[00:54:13] because of

[00:54:14] exactly that

[00:54:14] just as you

[00:54:15] think

[00:54:15] he figured

[00:54:15] them out

[00:54:16] he's adding

[00:54:17] something

[00:54:17] tinkering

[00:54:18] he does not

[00:54:19] like

[00:54:20] even his splitter

[00:54:20] which I

[00:54:21] thought was

[00:54:21] filthy

[00:54:22] he's still

[00:54:23] trying to

[00:54:24] tinker

[00:54:24] with that

[00:54:24] he was

[00:54:25] you know

[00:54:25] I was

[00:54:26] talking with him

[00:54:26] he's like

[00:54:27] you know

[00:54:27] if you ever

[00:54:28] interview

[00:54:28] Yamamoto

[00:54:29] let's see

[00:54:29] his splitter

[00:54:30] like

[00:54:30] he wants to improve

[00:54:31] everything

[00:54:32] he wants to borrow

[00:54:33] from everybody

[00:54:34] and

[00:54:35] some guys

[00:54:35] can do that

[00:54:36] some guys

[00:54:36] get side tracked

[00:54:37] chasing

[00:54:38] all these

[00:54:38] pitches

[00:54:39] not him

[00:54:40] like

[00:54:40] he is

[00:54:41] a combination

[00:54:42] of a tinkerer

[00:54:43] and a perfectionist

[00:54:44] he wants to be

[00:54:45] the best

[00:54:45] pitcher on the

[00:54:46] planet

[00:54:47] very aggressive

[00:54:48] on the mountain

[00:54:48] and a

[00:54:48] very good

[00:54:49] dude

[00:54:49] off the

[00:54:50] off the

[00:54:50] mound

[00:54:52] I think

[00:54:53] the world of

[00:54:53] him

[00:54:53] as far

[00:54:54] as pitching town

[00:54:54] I think

[00:54:55] he's extremely

[00:54:56] good

[00:54:56] in a top tier

[00:54:57] pitcher

[00:54:59] I was kind of

[00:54:59] thinking about

[00:55:00] this nickname

[00:55:00] as we were

[00:55:00] preparing

[00:55:02] I almost think of

[00:55:03] him as like

[00:55:03] a mad scientist

[00:55:04] in a certain way

[00:55:05] between the

[00:55:05] huge bag

[00:55:06] of tools

[00:55:07] that he carries

[00:55:07] around with

[00:55:08] them

[00:55:08] which not

[00:55:08] a ton

[00:55:08] of guys

[00:55:09] do

[00:55:09] and then

[00:55:10] paired with

[00:55:10] what tj

[00:55:11] was saying

[00:55:11] and what

[00:55:11] you were

[00:55:12] saying

[00:55:12] about

[00:55:12] he is

[00:55:13] always

[00:55:13] like

[00:55:14] he almost

[00:55:14] looks at

[00:55:14] pitching

[00:55:15] as a science

[00:55:15] where

[00:55:16] again

[00:55:16] like

[00:55:16] he's

[00:55:16] always

[00:55:17] mixing things

[00:55:17] up

[00:55:18] he's

[00:55:18] always

[00:55:18] looking to

[00:55:19] add

[00:55:19] or

[00:55:20] improve

[00:55:20] like

[00:55:20] like we were

[00:55:21] talking

[00:55:21] about

[00:55:21] where

[00:55:22] it almost

[00:55:23] feels like

[00:55:23] he could

[00:55:23] get in a lab

[00:55:24] and kind

[00:55:25] of just

[00:55:26] dissect

[00:55:26] everything

[00:55:32] like a scientist

[00:55:32] in that way.

[00:55:33] Yeah,

[00:55:33] he definitely

[00:55:34] is like

[00:55:34] that's absolutely

[00:55:36] he does

[00:55:36] he doesn't look

[00:55:37] like a scientist

[00:55:38] though

[00:55:38] so

[00:55:39] like that's

[00:55:39] the one

[00:55:40] you see

[00:55:40] Greg Maddox

[00:55:41] you say

[00:55:41] that guy

[00:55:42] looks like

[00:55:42] an accountant

[00:55:43] or professor

[00:55:43] hey

[00:55:44] the professor

[00:55:44] is a good nickname

[00:55:45] you look

[00:55:46] at Logan

[00:55:46] Gilbert

[00:55:47] and he's a

[00:55:47] giant

[00:55:48] dude

[00:55:48] who just

[00:55:49] looks like

[00:55:49] he's going

[00:55:50] to

[00:55:50] you know

[00:55:51] but he is

[00:55:52] he's

[00:55:52] absolutely

[00:55:53] a very thoughtful

[00:55:54] smart

[00:55:55] pitcher

[00:55:56] who also happens

[00:55:56] to throw

[00:55:57] gas

[00:55:57] and tinker

[00:55:58] a lot

[00:55:59] yeah

[00:56:02] looked more like it

[00:56:03] it would stick

[00:56:03] better though

[00:56:04] huh

[00:56:05] I was trying to cover

[00:56:06] the nickname

[00:56:06] for a splitter

[00:56:06] and I was thinking

[00:56:07] like

[00:56:08] we had two

[00:56:08] choices either

[00:56:09] like the

[00:56:09] Trident

[00:56:10] or the

[00:56:10] Albatross

[00:56:11] I think

[00:56:11] the Albatross

[00:56:12] because

[00:56:12] it's an

[00:56:12] awkward pitch

[00:56:13] and

[00:56:14] Albatross

[00:56:14] awkward birds

[00:56:15] and fly

[00:56:15] and glide

[00:56:16] and then

[00:56:16] drop

[00:56:17] and don't

[00:56:17] have a lot of

[00:56:18] flapping

[00:56:19] and his

[00:56:20] his

[00:56:20] splitter

[00:56:21] has

[00:56:21] very low

[00:56:22] spin rate

[00:56:23] but Trident

[00:56:24] fits with the

[00:56:24] Mariner

[00:56:25] both of them

[00:56:25] do

[00:56:25] like the

[00:56:26] rhyme of the

[00:56:26] ancient Mariner

[00:56:27] Albatross

[00:56:28] definitely

[00:56:29] part of it

[00:56:29] but

[00:56:32] I'm not a

[00:56:33] bad nickname

[00:56:33] I mean

[00:56:33] I think

[00:56:34] he is

[00:56:34] a tinker

[00:56:35] and

[00:56:35] and a

[00:56:35] mad scientist

[00:56:36] absolutely

[00:56:38] I want to get back

[00:56:38] to his

[00:56:39] cutter here

[00:56:39] for a second

[00:56:40] because

[00:56:40] I think

[00:56:40] it's so

[00:56:40] interesting

[00:56:41] the way

[00:56:41] Logan

[00:56:42] pitches

[00:56:43] if you compare

[00:56:43] it to the rest

[00:56:44] of the rotation

[00:56:45] every other

[00:56:45] pitcher

[00:56:46] in this

[00:56:46] Mariner's rotation

[00:56:47] throws a

[00:56:47] sinker

[00:56:48] or

[00:56:48] two seem

[00:56:48] fastball

[00:56:49] something to

[00:56:49] get the ball

[00:56:50] on the ground

[00:56:51] Logan

[00:56:51] doesn't

[00:56:51] he said

[00:56:52] it doesn't

[00:56:52] really

[00:56:52] work with

[00:56:53] his arm slot

[00:56:53] doesn't

[00:56:54] work with

[00:56:54] how he pitches

[00:56:55] doesn't

[00:56:55] like how

[00:56:55] it comes

[00:56:56] out of his hand

[00:56:56] so

[00:56:57] instead

[00:56:57] he adds

[00:56:58] this cutter

[00:56:59] when you look

[00:56:59] at this

[00:57:00] cutter

[00:57:00] what does

[00:57:01] that bring

[00:57:01] in comparison

[00:57:02] to the

[00:57:02] two seem

[00:57:03] fastball

[00:57:04] well

[00:57:04] I mean

[00:57:04] it's

[00:57:05] obviously a

[00:57:05] glove side

[00:57:06] pitch

[00:57:06] instead of

[00:57:06] an arm

[00:57:07] side pitch

[00:57:07] he may

[00:57:08] be a guy

[00:57:08] who just

[00:57:08] doesn't

[00:57:09] like

[00:57:09] contact

[00:57:10] and wants

[00:57:10] to mean

[00:57:11] there

[00:57:11] are definitely

[00:57:12] guys

[00:57:12] like a

[00:57:13] sinker

[00:57:13] is more

[00:57:13] of a pitch

[00:57:14] if you

[00:57:14] want

[00:57:14] contact

[00:57:15] soft

[00:57:15] contact

[00:57:15] get it

[00:57:16] put in play

[00:57:16] because

[00:57:17] they never

[00:57:18] profile

[00:57:18] as

[00:57:19] as a huge

[00:57:19] swing

[00:57:20] and miss

[00:57:20] pitch

[00:57:20] they

[00:57:21] good to

[00:57:21] look at

[00:57:22] but they

[00:57:22] don't get a

[00:57:22] ton of swings

[00:57:23] and misses

[00:57:23] cutters

[00:57:24] can keep people

[00:57:25] office

[00:57:25] fastball

[00:57:26] and it's

[00:57:26] an aggressive

[00:57:27] pitch

[00:57:27] so he

[00:57:28] may just

[00:57:28] feel like

[00:57:29] it works

[00:57:29] better

[00:57:30] both with

[00:57:30] his mechanics

[00:57:31] and mental

[00:57:31] and mindset

[00:57:32] the splitter

[00:57:33] aggressive

[00:57:34] pitch

[00:57:34] a cutter

[00:57:35] aggressive

[00:57:35] pitch

[00:57:35] and both

[00:57:36] keep people

[00:57:36] office

[00:57:37] fastball

[00:57:38] which

[00:57:38] he would

[00:57:39] say

[00:57:39] and talking

[00:57:39] to Cal

[00:57:40] Raleigh

[00:57:42] I don't know

[00:57:42] if he would

[00:57:42] say that

[00:57:43] he wants

[00:57:43] Cal

[00:57:43] Raleigh

[00:57:43] to call

[00:57:44] more

[00:57:44] fastball

[00:57:44] than Cal's

[00:57:45] like

[00:57:45] I really

[00:57:46] like your

[00:57:46] fastball

[00:57:47] so

[00:57:47] it's

[00:57:48] I think

[00:57:49] the cutters

[00:57:49] maybe a way

[00:57:50] of

[00:57:50] keeping hitters

[00:57:51] off that

[00:57:52] is his

[00:57:54] slider

[00:57:54] almost underrated

[00:57:55] at this point

[00:57:56] I think

[00:57:57] he's

[00:57:57] overall underrated

[00:57:58] but yeah

[00:57:59] I think his

[00:57:59] slider

[00:57:59] is

[00:58:00] is

[00:58:00] underrated

[00:58:01] I don't

[00:58:02] know that

[00:58:02] any of his

[00:58:02] pitches

[00:58:03] like

[00:58:03] nobody

[00:58:03] just

[00:58:05] people

[00:58:05] know

[00:58:05] he's

[00:58:05] a really

[00:58:06] good

[00:58:06] pitcher

[00:58:06] but I don't

[00:58:07] think

[00:58:07] people are

[00:58:07] singing

[00:58:08] the praises

[00:58:08] of any

[00:58:09] of his

[00:58:09] pitches

[00:58:09] to me

[00:58:09] I think

[00:58:10] his splitter

[00:58:10] is underraided

[00:58:11] I think

[00:58:11] his splitter

[00:58:12] is an extremely

[00:58:12] good pitch

[00:58:13] I think

[00:58:13] his slider

[00:58:14] is extremely

[00:58:14] good pitch

[00:58:15] he's just

[00:58:15] a very

[00:58:16] good picture

[00:58:17] but

[00:58:17] he

[00:58:18] I guess identity

[00:58:19] was

[00:58:21] needs an identity

[00:58:22] for everybody

[00:58:23] out there

[00:58:24] to say

[00:58:25] this is what

[00:58:25] Logan

[00:58:26] Gilbert

[00:58:26] is

[00:58:27] right

[00:58:27] like

[00:58:28] that's

[00:58:28] how you

[00:58:28] take off

[00:58:29] in terms of

[00:58:29] popularity

[00:58:30] is

[00:58:31] you know

[00:58:31] Brian

[00:58:31] who's got the

[00:58:32] Ric Flair thing

[00:58:33] or the

[00:58:33] Wu Tang

[00:58:34] clan

[00:58:34] Kirby's

[00:58:35] got his

[00:58:35] command

[00:58:35] thing

[00:58:36] Castillo's

[00:58:37] got his

[00:58:38] you know

[00:58:38] the

[00:58:38] fist pump

[00:58:39] Gilbert

[00:58:40] does

[00:58:40] he

[00:58:40] what Gilbert

[00:58:41] does

[00:58:41] the dismissal

[00:58:42] thing

[00:58:42] when he's

[00:58:42] done with

[00:58:43] a hitter

[00:58:43] and the

[00:58:43] twirling

[00:58:44] thing

[00:58:44] he does

[00:58:45] you know

[00:58:45] something

[00:58:46] to give the character

[00:58:47] of the guy

[00:58:47] and sum it up

[00:58:48] very quickly

[00:58:49] is a way

[00:58:49] to get him

[00:58:50] more attention

[00:58:51] as the

[00:58:52] pitcher.

[00:58:52] He is

[00:58:54] now to

[00:58:54] Castillo

[00:58:55] Rob

[00:58:55] I wanted

[00:58:56] another one

[00:58:57] of your reactions

[00:58:58] when

[00:58:58] Cal's

[00:58:59] putting down

[00:58:59] 47

[00:59:00] consecutive

[00:59:01] fastballs

[00:59:01] for

[00:59:02] Louise

[00:59:02] last season

[00:59:03] like

[00:59:04] how much

[00:59:04] of like

[00:59:04] it

[00:59:05] like

[00:59:05] a

[00:59:05] fuck

[00:59:05] you

[00:59:06] is that

[00:59:06] to

[00:59:07] to the

[00:59:07] to the hitters

[00:59:08] when

[00:59:08] it's like

[00:59:09] good luck

[00:59:10] it's fantastic

[00:59:11] and

[00:59:11] Cal's

[00:59:11] logic on

[00:59:12] that was

[00:59:12] I just

[00:59:13] want to

[00:59:13] see

[00:59:13] how many

[00:59:13] could throw

[00:59:14] in a row

[00:59:14] like

[00:59:15] they weren't

[00:59:15] hitting

[00:59:15] it

[00:59:15] so

[00:59:16] I'm just

[00:59:16] going to keep

[00:59:16] throwing it

[00:59:18] great

[00:59:18] like

[00:59:21] I'm going to be

[00:59:22] because

[00:59:22] I love

[00:59:23] pitch

[00:59:23] I love

[00:59:24] Castillo

[00:59:24] for one

[00:59:25] because

[00:59:25] he's a very

[00:59:26] easy guy

[00:59:26] to read

[00:59:27] like

[00:59:27] you see

[00:59:28] the confidence

[00:59:28] on that guy

[00:59:29] when

[00:59:30] he gets out of

[00:59:30] an inning

[00:59:31] with his

[00:59:31] law

[00:59:32] piedra

[00:59:32] fist pump

[00:59:33] thing

[00:59:34] the man

[00:59:35] is

[00:59:35] just a

[00:59:36] showman

[00:59:37] and then

[00:59:38] that was part

[00:59:38] of the show

[00:59:38] right

[00:59:39] you're

[00:59:39] living

[00:59:39] you're

[00:59:40] watching

[00:59:41] these

[00:59:41] fastballs

[00:59:42] I started

[00:59:42] watching him

[00:59:42] like

[00:59:43] I got

[00:59:43] I don't

[00:59:44] remember

[00:59:44] I'm throwing

[00:59:45] anything other

[00:59:45] in the

[00:59:46] fastball

[00:59:46] I'm going to go back

[00:59:47] and count

[00:59:48] him

[00:59:51] just be doing this

[00:59:52] on purpose

[00:59:52] and

[00:59:53] lo and behold

[00:59:54] they were

[00:59:54] we found out

[00:59:55] during

[00:59:55] spring training

[00:59:56] but

[00:59:57] didn't know

[00:59:57] like

[00:59:58] I love it

[00:59:59] like

[00:59:59] give me

[01:00:00] my best

[01:00:00] first year best

[01:00:01] let's go

[01:00:03] is it interesting

[01:00:04] how he's

[01:00:04] evolved

[01:00:05] over the last

[01:00:05] couple of years

[01:00:06] where for

[01:00:06] so long

[01:00:06] his changeup

[01:00:07] was always

[01:00:08] his best

[01:00:08] pitch

[01:00:08] and now

[01:00:09] all of a sudden

[01:00:09] it's his

[01:00:09] fastball

[01:00:10] I love

[01:00:11] like

[01:00:11] people

[01:00:12] were

[01:00:12] always requesting

[01:00:13] his changeup

[01:00:14] as for

[01:00:14] like

[01:00:15] you got to get

[01:00:15] Louise Castillo's

[01:00:16] changeup

[01:00:16] as one of the

[01:00:17] filthiest

[01:00:17] pitches in baseball

[01:00:19] he's all

[01:00:19] but abandoned it

[01:00:20] for his

[01:00:20] fastball

[01:00:21] which is

[01:00:22] you know

[01:00:23] it's going backwards

[01:00:24] most people

[01:00:25] as they get

[01:00:25] you know

[01:00:25] the age

[01:00:26] or whatever

[01:00:26] go away from

[01:00:27] their fastball

[01:00:27] and develop

[01:00:28] all these other

[01:00:29] pitches

[01:00:29] for him

[01:00:30] it's like

[01:00:31] they finally

[01:00:31] realize

[01:00:32] his

[01:00:32] fastball

[01:00:33] was a

[01:00:33] unique pitch

[01:00:34] gives his arm

[01:00:35] slot

[01:00:35] and stuff

[01:00:37] that he can

[01:00:37] live up

[01:00:38] in the zone

[01:00:38] with it

[01:00:39] and

[01:00:40] he just

[01:00:40] changed it

[01:00:41] like

[01:00:41] he took

[01:00:41] he minimized

[01:00:42] one of the best

[01:00:43] pitches

[01:00:43] in baseball

[01:00:44] for another

[01:00:45] best pitch

[01:00:45] in baseball

[01:00:46] and it's

[01:00:46] worked out

[01:00:46] really well

[01:00:47] what

[01:00:48] do you get

[01:00:48] when you

[01:00:49] don't have

[01:00:49] extension

[01:00:51] outlier extension

[01:00:52] with Logan

[01:00:52] Gilbert's

[01:00:53] fastball

[01:00:53] and how much

[01:00:54] velocity

[01:00:54] that adds

[01:00:55] to his

[01:00:55] pitch

[01:00:55] Luis is the

[01:00:56] complete opposite

[01:00:57] how

[01:00:58] does that work

[01:00:59] it

[01:00:59] you know

[01:01:00] it takes

[01:01:00] all kinds

[01:01:01] when he's

[01:01:01] he's got

[01:01:01] a lower

[01:01:02] release point

[01:01:03] which

[01:01:03] still enables

[01:01:04] him

[01:01:04] to have more time

[01:01:05] for it

[01:01:06] with a shorter

[01:01:07] extension

[01:01:08] you have more time

[01:01:09] for his

[01:01:09] for hitter

[01:01:10] to recognize

[01:01:10] this pitch

[01:01:11] and then

[01:01:11] swing

[01:01:11] under it

[01:01:12] because

[01:01:12] it's

[01:01:12] coming

[01:01:12] it's

[01:01:13] it's

[01:01:13] feeling

[01:01:14] like

[01:01:14] it's

[01:01:14] elevating

[01:01:16] so

[01:01:16] maybe

[01:01:17] it works

[01:01:17] in hit

[01:01:18] to his advantage

[01:01:19] it definitely

[01:01:19] might help

[01:01:20] the changeup

[01:01:20] right

[01:01:21] if you have a shorter

[01:01:22] extension

[01:01:23] it takes longer

[01:01:24] for that pitch

[01:01:24] to get there

[01:01:25] anyway

[01:01:25] now you're

[01:01:26] adding a little bit

[01:01:26] more deception

[01:01:27] by having it go

[01:01:28] slower

[01:01:28] because of your

[01:01:29] changeup

[01:01:30] everybody uses

[01:01:31] whatever they got

[01:01:32] to their

[01:01:32] their advantage

[01:01:33] and it also helps

[01:01:35] like

[01:01:36] in a rotation

[01:01:37] having different guys

[01:01:38] like

[01:01:38] you see that

[01:01:39] with relievers

[01:01:40] different arm slots

[01:01:41] and different sides

[01:01:41] lefty

[01:01:43] righty

[01:01:43] high arms

[01:01:44] not low

[01:01:44] arms

[01:01:45] not

[01:01:45] with same thing

[01:01:46] with starters

[01:01:46] if you get used

[01:01:47] to one guy

[01:01:47] the next guy

[01:01:48] that comes

[01:01:49] the next day

[01:01:49] is totally

[01:01:50] different

[01:01:50] could mess you up

[01:01:51] so

[01:01:52] I mean I like

[01:01:53] I like what they do

[01:01:54] as far as varying

[01:01:55] all that as well

[01:01:57] want to touch on

[01:01:57] a couple

[01:01:58] relievers

[01:01:58] here too

[01:01:59] quickly

[01:01:59] no

[01:02:00] Mariners fans

[01:02:01] have gotten to

[01:02:01] see Gregory

[01:02:01] Santos throw yet

[01:02:02] however

[01:02:03] when he gets back

[01:02:04] what should

[01:02:05] excite them

[01:02:07] he is

[01:02:07] like

[01:02:08] he caught my

[01:02:08] eye

[01:02:09] just because

[01:02:10] his stuff

[01:02:10] was

[01:02:11] unbelievably

[01:02:12] filthy

[01:02:12] you're talking

[01:02:12] about a

[01:02:13] guy

[01:02:14] it's

[01:02:14] triple digits

[01:02:15] with

[01:02:15] crazy movement

[01:02:16] like

[01:02:17] he is

[01:02:19] I'm trying

[01:02:19] to compare him

[01:02:20] to somebody

[01:02:22] there's

[01:02:22] not a lot of guys

[01:02:23] that get

[01:02:24] that type

[01:02:24] of movement

[01:02:27] especially the

[01:02:28] arms

[01:02:28] side movement

[01:02:29] some

[01:02:29] I'm

[01:02:30] no one's

[01:02:30] coming to

[01:02:30] mind

[01:02:31] he's just

[01:02:31] absolute

[01:02:32] filth

[01:02:32] and

[01:02:33] totally underrated

[01:02:34] because nobody

[01:02:34] knows

[01:02:34] who he is

[01:02:35] like

[01:02:36] he is

[01:02:36] one of those guys

[01:02:37] that pitched

[01:02:37] an obscurity

[01:02:38] and I'm

[01:02:38] watching him

[01:02:39] going

[01:02:39] he this guy

[01:02:40] is filthy

[01:02:40] why isn't

[01:02:41] everybody talking

[01:02:41] about him

[01:02:42] and they weren't

[01:02:43] and apparently

[01:02:43] the Mariners

[01:02:44] noticed

[01:02:44] that

[01:02:45] so that

[01:02:45] he was

[01:02:45] a filthy

[01:02:46] dude

[01:02:46] so

[01:02:46] expect pure

[01:02:47] filth

[01:02:48] and a guy

[01:02:48] that throws really

[01:02:49] hard

[01:02:50] and that

[01:02:50] you'll

[01:02:50] you'll

[01:02:51] see it

[01:02:51] because the movement

[01:02:52] kind of

[01:02:52] jumps

[01:02:53] off the

[01:02:54] off the

[01:02:54] page

[01:02:55] when you see it

[01:02:56] Santos seems like

[01:02:57] he's going to

[01:02:57] mirror a lot

[01:02:58] like what we've seen

[01:02:59] from

[01:02:59] Andres Munoz

[01:03:00] this season

[01:03:01] when Andres

[01:03:01] had his first

[01:03:02] breakout

[01:03:02] season

[01:03:03] it was

[01:03:03] four

[01:03:03] seem

[01:03:03] fastball

[01:03:04] and slider

[01:03:04] now

[01:03:05] he's essentially

[01:03:05] sinker

[01:03:06] and slider

[01:03:07] how does

[01:03:07] that profile

[01:03:08] change

[01:03:09] with him

[01:03:09] going

[01:03:09] from the

[01:03:10] four

[01:03:10] seem

[01:03:10] now to

[01:03:11] one of the

[01:03:11] nastiest

[01:03:12] two

[01:03:12] Seemers

[01:03:12] you'll see

[01:03:13] yeah

[01:03:14] like

[01:03:14] that

[01:03:15] kind of

[01:03:15] blew my mind

[01:03:16] because

[01:03:16] I'm looking

[01:03:17] at him

[01:03:17] as I'm

[01:03:17] four Seemers

[01:03:18] and then I'm looking

[01:03:18] at these

[01:03:19] pitches

[01:03:19] that are

[01:03:19] crazy arm

[01:03:20] side movement

[01:03:21] and he can get

[01:03:21] swinging

[01:03:22] miss on it

[01:03:22] because

[01:03:23] of the

[01:03:23] Velo

[01:03:24] and you're

[01:03:24] right

[01:03:25] it

[01:03:25] does

[01:03:25] that's

[01:03:26] a good point

[01:03:26] so

[01:03:27] to me

[01:03:28] a

[01:03:29] the movement

[01:03:29] that you

[01:03:29] see out of

[01:03:30] Munoz

[01:03:30] is what

[01:03:31] you'll see

[01:03:31] out of

[01:03:31] Santos

[01:03:32] with a little

[01:03:32] bit more

[01:03:34] drop

[01:03:34] on his

[01:03:34] sinker

[01:03:35] like

[01:03:35] I've seen

[01:03:35] some that

[01:03:36] just look

[01:03:36] like a

[01:03:37] hundred

[01:03:37] mile

[01:03:37] hour

[01:03:37] change up

[01:03:38] so

[01:03:38] not a

[01:03:40] bad comp

[01:03:41] and I do

[01:03:41] think

[01:03:41] as far as

[01:03:42] Munoz

[01:03:42] changing

[01:03:43] how he's

[01:03:43] gone at

[01:03:44] it's

[01:03:47] you know some pitching

[01:03:48] coaches say do

[01:03:49] what you do

[01:03:49] keep doing

[01:03:50] that

[01:03:50] pat you on the back

[01:03:52] and some guys

[01:03:53] are

[01:03:53] Tinker saying

[01:03:54] they explore things

[01:03:55] and I think

[01:03:56] the Mariners

[01:03:56] are good at

[01:03:57] both taking

[01:03:57] what somebody's

[01:03:58] good at

[01:03:59] but also saying

[01:03:59] have you ever

[01:04:00] tried this

[01:04:00] have you ever

[01:04:01] tried this

[01:04:02] and not

[01:04:03] telling pictures

[01:04:03] not to experiment

[01:04:05] and then maybe

[01:04:06] sometimes

[01:04:06] it doesn't work

[01:04:07] sometimes

[01:04:07] it does

[01:04:09] more than not

[01:04:10] you're seeing

[01:04:10] with them

[01:04:10] it does

[01:04:11] work

[01:04:11] and

[01:04:13] and Munoz

[01:04:13] is a great example

[01:04:14] of that

[01:04:16] we've got

[01:04:17] two fun questions

[01:04:18] to wrap up with you

[01:04:19] Rob

[01:04:19] number one

[01:04:20] we know you're

[01:04:21] a big

[01:04:21] Ryan Bliss

[01:04:22] fan as a time

[01:04:23] of recording this

[01:04:24] he just made

[01:04:24] his debut

[01:04:25] so

[01:04:26] for all Mariners

[01:04:27] fans

[01:04:27] who have only seen

[01:04:28] about a game

[01:04:28] of them

[01:04:29] so far

[01:04:30] why should

[01:04:30] Mariners

[01:04:31] fans

[01:04:31] fall in love

[01:04:32] with Ryan

[01:04:32] Bliss

[01:04:33] dude

[01:04:33] my son

[01:04:34] played travel

[01:04:35] ball

[01:04:35] with him

[01:04:35] for two years

[01:04:36] um

[01:04:37] it do

[01:04:38] he always

[01:04:39] came up

[01:04:39] big

[01:04:40] in every

[01:04:40] moment

[01:04:41] humble

[01:04:42] dude

[01:04:43] every single

[01:04:44] parent

[01:04:44] of every player

[01:04:45] on the team

[01:04:46] would trade their

[01:04:47] kid

[01:04:47] for him

[01:04:48] every day of the week

[01:04:49] just the nicest

[01:04:50] kid

[01:04:50] I remember

[01:04:51] the last

[01:04:51] he had to leave early

[01:04:52] from one of the

[01:04:53] tournaments

[01:04:53] and it was the

[01:04:54] last tournament

[01:04:54] we had

[01:04:55] and just came by

[01:04:56] and shook

[01:04:57] every parent's

[01:04:58] hand

[01:04:58] on the way

[01:04:59] out

[01:04:59] like

[01:04:59] we're all

[01:04:59] watching a game

[01:05:00] and he's like

[01:05:01] hey

[01:05:01] just want to

[01:05:01] let you know

[01:05:02] I'm

[01:05:03] unbelievable

[01:05:03] his parents

[01:05:04] are great

[01:05:05] he's a great

[01:05:06] kid

[01:05:06] wants to be

[01:05:07] a role model

[01:05:08] like

[01:05:08] he wants to be

[01:05:09] out there

[01:05:09] in Seattle

[01:05:10] doing things

[01:05:11] in public

[01:05:12] I mentioned that

[01:05:13] to

[01:05:14] the Mariners

[01:05:14] PR

[01:05:15] to him like

[01:05:16] don't be afraid

[01:05:16] to call on him

[01:05:17] because he

[01:05:17] wants to be

[01:05:18] that guy

[01:05:19] he just

[01:05:19] really

[01:05:20] like

[01:05:20] he is

[01:05:20] Mr.

[01:05:21] Baseball

[01:05:23] the other thing

[01:05:23] is we always

[01:05:24] compared him to

[01:05:25] a Mookie

[01:05:25] bats

[01:05:26] or a

[01:05:26] Jose

[01:05:27] Altuve

[01:05:27] because he's not

[01:05:28] a tall

[01:05:28] dude

[01:05:29] but he had a

[01:05:29] lot of power

[01:05:31] and then it

[01:05:31] so happens

[01:05:32] that his first

[01:05:32] game

[01:05:33] now

[01:05:34] he

[01:05:34] his first

[01:05:35] play

[01:05:35] was a pop-up

[01:05:36] from Altuve

[01:05:38] then he

[01:05:38] his first

[01:05:39] two at

[01:05:39] bats

[01:05:40] he hit the

[01:05:41] ball to

[01:05:41] Altuve

[01:05:42] so it's like

[01:05:43] I'm watching this

[01:05:43] I'm going it's like

[01:05:44] full circle

[01:05:45] automatic

[01:05:45] like

[01:05:46] this is one of the guys

[01:05:47] that he idolized

[01:05:48] and he's catching

[01:05:49] the ball

[01:05:50] off

[01:05:50] off

[01:05:50] you know

[01:05:51] first play

[01:05:51] he makes

[01:05:52] and then his first

[01:05:53] at

[01:05:53] first two

[01:05:53] at bats

[01:05:54] where

[01:05:54] hits to

[01:05:55] Altuve

[01:05:55] so

[01:05:56] it's really

[01:05:58] it's awesome to see

[01:05:59] great kid

[01:06:01] everybody should

[01:06:01] be a fan of him

[01:06:02] and

[01:06:03] just watch him

[01:06:04] and read for him

[01:06:05] last thing

[01:06:06] from us

[01:06:06] Rob

[01:06:07] we talk

[01:06:07] spent so much time

[01:06:08] talking about pitching

[01:06:10] is there

[01:06:10] a hitter

[01:06:10] you enjoy watching

[01:06:12] more than

[01:06:12] anyone else

[01:06:15] I want the mall to

[01:06:16] strike

[01:06:17] you know

[01:06:17] I like watching

[01:06:18] I

[01:06:19] I like watching

[01:06:20] so do

[01:06:20] for example

[01:06:21] I like

[01:06:21] I like

[01:06:22] his

[01:06:22] I

[01:06:23] I think

[01:06:23] his

[01:06:24] playfulness

[01:06:25] on

[01:06:26] like

[01:06:27] he's a smart

[01:06:27] ass

[01:06:28] he takes a pitch

[01:06:29] and he does

[01:06:29] his

[01:06:30] so do

[01:06:30] shuffle

[01:06:31] but

[01:06:31] he respects

[01:06:32] the game

[01:06:33] a lot

[01:06:34] usually

[01:06:35] he knows

[01:06:35] to strike

[01:06:36] some better

[01:06:36] in the

[01:06:36] umpire

[01:06:37] he'll

[01:06:38] punish

[01:06:38] balls

[01:06:38] that are

[01:06:39] in

[01:06:39] but he also

[01:06:39] will tip

[01:06:40] his hat

[01:06:40] to a pitcher

[01:06:41] if he gets

[01:06:41] he'll

[01:06:41] not his head

[01:06:42] and stuff

[01:06:43] so

[01:06:43] that's the type

[01:06:44] of stuff I like

[01:06:44] I like

[01:06:45] that competition

[01:06:47] between a

[01:06:47] hitter

[01:06:48] and pitcher

[01:06:48] and I think

[01:06:49] he

[01:06:50] he's kind of

[01:06:50] the mark

[01:06:51] of being

[01:06:51] a good

[01:06:52] pitcher

[01:06:53] because

[01:06:54] he's such

[01:06:54] it

[01:06:54] he's such

[01:06:55] a good

[01:06:56] hitter

[01:06:56] knowing the strike

[01:06:56] zone

[01:06:57] that I think

[01:06:58] pitchers

[01:06:58] take it

[01:06:58] as a badge

[01:06:59] of honor

[01:06:59] to face

[01:07:00] him

[01:07:00] and get

[01:07:01] him out

[01:07:01] so that's really

[01:07:02] that's a guy

[01:07:03] that I think

[01:07:04] you know

[01:07:04] some people

[01:07:04] hate him

[01:07:05] that's

[01:07:05] okay

[01:07:05] you're allowed

[01:07:06] to hate

[01:07:07] whoever

[01:07:08] but

[01:07:08] as far

[01:07:09] as respect

[01:07:10] you got to

[01:07:11] respect

[01:07:11] getting

[01:07:11] that dude

[01:07:12] out

[01:07:15] of you good

[01:07:15] at that

[01:07:16] full transparency

[01:07:17] loud

[01:07:17] I guess

[01:07:18] you're going to

[01:07:18] say show

[01:07:19] hey

[01:07:19] because

[01:07:19] he also

[01:07:20] pitches

[01:07:20] yeah

[01:07:21] I mean

[01:07:21] that is

[01:07:22] that's too

[01:07:23] easy though

[01:07:23] right

[01:07:23] like

[01:07:24] before

[01:07:25] he's

[01:07:25] one of the few

[01:07:26] hitters

[01:07:26] I actually

[01:07:27] will tweet

[01:07:27] because he

[01:07:28] also

[01:07:28] and he

[01:07:29] also

[01:07:30] thing

[01:07:30] I love about

[01:07:31] show

[01:07:31] hey

[01:07:31] his ability

[01:07:32] to get to

[01:07:32] pitches

[01:07:33] that you

[01:07:33] never

[01:07:33] see

[01:07:34] hit

[01:07:34] and then

[01:07:34] hit him

[01:07:35] out of

[01:07:35] ball

[01:07:35] part

[01:07:36] that's

[01:07:37] not

[01:07:37] like

[01:07:38] it

[01:07:38] screws

[01:07:38] with hit

[01:07:39] with pitchers

[01:07:39] minds

[01:07:40] because

[01:07:40] they're throwing

[01:07:41] pitches

[01:07:41] that nobody

[01:07:42] hits

[01:07:42] up and in

[01:07:43] show

[01:07:45] hey

[01:07:46] he's just flipping it

[01:07:47] over the fence

[01:07:47] like

[01:07:48] yeah

[01:07:48] very talented guy

[01:07:49] but

[01:07:50] he'll strike out

[01:07:51] more like

[01:07:51] I think

[01:07:52] so do

[01:07:53] with the

[01:07:54] competition

[01:07:54] is a thing

[01:07:55] that jumps out

[01:07:55] of me

[01:07:55] if I'm

[01:07:56] looking at

[01:07:56] a pure hitter

[01:07:57] Rob

[01:07:58] this has been

[01:07:59] great

[01:07:59] no one

[01:08:00] breaks down

[01:08:00] pitching like

[01:08:01] you do

[01:08:01] and we really

[01:08:02] look forward

[01:08:02] to seeing

[01:08:03] your content

[01:08:03] on our Twitter

[01:08:04] feeds

[01:08:04] and on

[01:08:05] YouTube

[01:08:05] and

[01:08:06] wherever

[01:08:06] throughout

[01:08:07] the rest

[01:08:07] of the

[01:08:08] season

[01:08:08] because

[01:08:09] you are the best

[01:08:10] thanks so much

[01:08:10] for taking

[01:08:10] some time

[01:08:11] to join

[01:08:11] us here today

[01:08:12] thank you

[01:08:12] and keep supporting

[01:08:13] this great

[01:08:13] pitching staff

[01:08:14] guys

[01:08:15] we always love

[01:08:16] having pitching

[01:08:16] ninja on

[01:08:17] appreciate all

[01:08:18] his time

[01:08:18] hopefully you guys

[01:08:19] learn something

[01:08:19] about the

[01:08:20] Mariners pitching

[01:08:20] staff in that

[01:08:21] conversation

[01:08:22] I know we did

[01:08:23] and if you need

[01:08:23] any more reason

[01:08:24] to be a Ryan

[01:08:24] Bliss

[01:08:24] fan

[01:08:25] I think

[01:08:25] he gave it to you

[01:08:26] so

[01:08:27] that'll just

[01:08:28] about wrap up

[01:08:28] this edition

[01:08:29] of the Marine

[01:08:30] Lair

[01:08:30] podcast

[01:08:30] you guys

[01:08:31] know the drill

[01:08:32] you want to

[01:08:32] listen to the

[01:08:32] full form

[01:08:33] podcast

[01:08:33] you can do

[01:08:34] so wherever

[01:08:34] you get

[01:08:34] your audio

[01:08:35] pods

[01:08:35] make sure

[01:08:36] download

[01:08:37] leave us

[01:08:37] a five star

[01:08:37] review

[01:08:38] leave a written

[01:08:38] review

[01:08:39] all that

[01:08:39] good stuff

[01:08:40] make sure

[01:08:40] like

[01:08:40] comment

[01:08:41] subscribe

[01:08:41] if you're watching

[01:08:42] on YouTube

[01:08:43] and check us out

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[01:08:48] at Marine

[01:08:49] Lair

[01:08:49] pod

[01:08:50] that's

[01:08:50] TJ

[01:08:50] I'm Lyle

[01:08:51] as always

[01:08:52] we thank you guys

[01:08:52] for tuning in

[01:08:53] we'll talk to you soon