Episode 140: Gary Hill Jr. (Mariners Broadcaster), And Why Has The Pitching Staff Been So Bad On The Road?

[00:00:00] At Parker, our purpose is simple. We want to make the world a better place by working more efficiently, by using more sustainable practices, by developing better technologies. We keep moving forward. With each new idea, innovation and partnership, we're one step closer to fulfilling our purpose every single day.

[00:00:22] To find out more, visit parker.com slash purpose. Parker, engineering your success. Welcome to episode number 140 of the Marine Layer Podcast. We welcome on Mariners broadcaster Gary Hill Jr. We get an update on the food scene on the road, discuss the offense getting back on track

[00:00:41] and who might be available at the Tray deadline. We have our two Mariners storylines. The Mariners do an injury swap this week. Jorge Polanco comes back and Brian Wu goes on the injured list. We'll also dive into the home road and drop off with the Mariners pitching staff.

[00:00:58] Here's our reminder to all our Marine Layer Podcast listeners, stay on top of all of our stuff by downloading our episodes and leaving a five star review, leaving a written review. That's all in the audio side of the podcast. If you're listening, you're watching on YouTube,

[00:01:09] make sure to like, make sure to comment, make sure to hit that subscribe button and check us out across social media on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter and YouTube shorts at Marine Layer Podcast. Let's get it rolling. And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast,

[00:01:35] part of the JustFaceball Podcast Network, recording Tuesday evening, June 25th. And I've come to a conclusion. I guess I'm not allowed back in the state of Tennessee because when I go to the state of Tennessee, Lyle getting back from Nashville yesterday,

[00:01:53] I don't think the Mariners liked it very much. Well, they won one game against the Marlins during your trip and that was it. Yeah. Well, I guess no more trips back to Nashville. It's a shame because I liked it.

[00:02:05] I'll talk about it a little bit more on Friday's episode. But yeah, they didn't like it very much. They didn't like it very much. The home road thing, Lyle, the road struggles will be a theme of this podcast. And we'll talk about that in our second Mariners storyline.

[00:02:21] Man, what is it about the state of Florida? I don't know. I don't have an answer for you on Florida. They should have swept that series against the Marlins. They didn't. No, they didn't. I was going to say is it something about...

[00:02:36] I was trying to make some Florida man joke, but I can't think of one off the rip here. So I don't know if the Florida man impact is impacting the Mariners or something. And you said it before we started recording.

[00:02:48] If the Mariners went to Cleveland, lost two of three to a good team, then you go to Miami, you win two of three or you sweep. And then you play a tough series against the Rays. Say they salvage when this episode comes out tomorrow on Wednesday.

[00:03:05] And yeah, it's not a great road trip, but that's about how teams do on the road. You go 500 on the road and you win a ton of games at home. The Mariners won a ton of games at home. Go on the road and not just lose,

[00:03:21] but look pretty terrible doing it and get some pretty bad injury news out of it as well. So just ultimately disappointing those. I think those Marlins games, like hopefully it doesn't stick. Like it doesn't stick with the like stick with you or I very, very long.

[00:03:37] I hope it becomes an afterthought of the eternal get back home this week. Can they play a lot better starting with the starting with the or no Orioles are next. No, Orioles start with the twins. Twins, sorry, twins. Yeah, the twins back on Friday.

[00:03:52] But hopefully it's just an afterthought, right? Because you know what is at the front of the mind right now? We did a we answered a mailbag question a couple weeks ago. That was what would be a comfortable division lead at the All-Star break for

[00:04:10] you to feel confident about the Mariners winning the division. You said eight. I think I said 10 given the series that were coming up if they were still going to be 10 games ahead of the Astros and the Rangers at the break.

[00:04:23] I'd say, yep, I'd feel pretty confident after about a month's worth of games eclipsed from that point to the All-Star break. Well, it reached 10 games, Lyle, after sweeping the Rangers down to four and

[00:04:35] a half if the Astros win today or in a half and let in a week. It went five and a half games. That's got to be some kind of record. I'm sure it's not, but it feels like it is.

[00:04:50] You know, I brought, I brought something to the podcast here that I wanted to open with. I even brought a special prop to do it with this 10 right here. So after seeing what the Mariners have done on this road trip and seeing

[00:05:04] what they've done offensively for most of the year. I hope people are watching on YouTube for this part. If you're listening, watch this part on YouTube because I'm going to do my best get Bayless impression here because I got something to say. All right. Ready? Action.

[00:05:20] In the end, you know it and I know it. They need to go get that guy, Kyle Daniel Tucker. How did I do? Okay. So here's my tweak. So first of all, I should have been the one to say ready set

[00:05:38] action because of the video you're trying to imitate his wife is who records it. Right? Yeah. So she records it and next so we might need a fancy recording setup for this. So skip will stand around the corner of his kitchen where you can see a shadow.

[00:05:57] You can see him standing there and waiting, waiting to go. And then you hear it like she'll I think she'll usually like hit the desk for him to go or hit the counter something for him to go and then you hear it and then you get that now

[00:06:10] in those videos, he's usually huffing and puffing to his trash can to throw some Jersey out. I don't know if you're throwing a Jersey out today or not allowed. In fact, you might be opening the trash can of the Houston

[00:06:21] trash can Astros and picking up Kyle Tucker Jersey. So I would say yes. If this was one of those reacting to a winner lost type videos, but I'd say more what I channeled here. That's like what he'll do on undisputed. He's got the pen in the hand.

[00:06:38] He's waving it around. He's slamming the desk. So that was more a segment at the desk. I was I was trying to do my best to get Bayless. I can't do it as well as Josh Rosen, the guy on

[00:06:47] Twitter who does the unreal impressions, but I wanted to give my best impression. So it was not like Ernestine filmmaking skim Bayless checking a Jersey in the trash is more like at the desk of undisputed. Okay.

[00:06:57] If we're at the desk, then I have one more tweak for you. Okay. You didn't butt in to say it was your turn loud enough. Oh my bad yet. He's to scream. It's my turn. Yeah. Stop. However, I stand by my statement as everybody listening

[00:07:13] to this or who listens to this podcast knows. I want Kyle Tucker. What are you willing to do for Kyle Tucker? I heard you made a proclamation over the weekend that you would do something. So I I would say I fired off an emotional tweet off Monday's

[00:07:27] lost after Monday's lost because I legitimately tweeted out saying if the Mariners go trade for Kyle Tucker, I will climb on my hands and knees up Mount Everest. Now as TJ tried to talk me off the ledge saying you're

[00:07:41] going to fly to Nepal buy a buy a round trip plane ticket and actually do that. And I was like, Well, would make for a great vlog. However, I might not have the time or resources. Let me fill.

[00:07:52] Let me fill the listeners in on a couple of key details of Lyle's Lyle's ask on this trade should the Mariners make this Lyle. But if you don't mind me sharing a doesn't travel very much B doesn't hike very much.

[00:08:06] So to ask Lyle Goldstein to travel across the world to like Nepal is a pretty decently touristy place because of Mount Everest only for him to scale the tallest peak in the world. I'm like why don't we do something you're actually going to do?

[00:08:26] Okay, so after 24 hours of reflection here while I might not fly to Nepal. Okay, I'll amend what you said a little bit. I'll travel in the US. You're right in the sense of I don't really travel outside the country much like like just never yeah, like I guess

[00:08:41] I don't have that much of a drive to do it at least these days or actually I've never really at least up to this point in my life and I have not gone out and done it much.

[00:08:49] So anyway, yeah something along the lines of what I will do I will do some type of grueling physical activity they trade for Cal Tucker like if somebody wants to make me like crawl a mile on my hands and knees or find some

[00:09:02] mountain and in the Pacific Northwest to climb up. Hey, we could do a whole vlog out of it. It's like local local podcaster keeps his promise and goes through absolute physical labor. Now the Mariners have to go trade for Cal Tucker, but I will stand by this.

[00:09:18] Will I necessarily climb climb Mount Rainier on my hands and knees? Well listen, listen baseball gods if you can hear me we're up for negotiation here because like I'm begging on my hands and knees for the Mariners to go get this guy

[00:09:32] and I'm sure we've got listeners saying it's never going to happen. They're never going to do it. It's unrealistic. It's in the division. Yeah, great. I'm still going to try to speak it into existence and if they actually pull it off, I will stick through with this

[00:09:45] promise and go through some type of manual labor. I don't know. Actually manual labor the right word. I don't know. It's a physical labor. It is physical labor is the wrong word of physical challenge is. Yeah, is the right one.

[00:09:59] So you might be wondering what I'm doing here in the background. Lyle, I'm doing some research for you. I'm thinking of a more realistic climbing option for you. Now, I think the obvious one in the state of Washington Mount Rainier. Yeah. Now it might not be the 20.

[00:10:18] I don't know off the top of my head how tall Everest is in the 20s. It's pretty tall. Mount Rainier is not quite that tall. But you would like to know Lyle Mount Rainier of height of a little bit over 14,000 feet above sea level.

[00:10:34] There have been about 200,000 people that have summited that mountain. Now I think that might be a little bit more your speed. Now is it easy? No. 14,000 feet above sea levels pretty tall. But since 200,000 people have done it. I think we have a winner for you.

[00:10:55] I think if you're going through with this, you are climbing up that mountain to the top. You know, we can vlog it all because that'll turn into content. So listen, if the Mariners actually acquire Kyle Tucker at this trade deadline, fine, I will climb up Mount Everest.

[00:11:15] This feels like a pardon my take type of type of bet. Remember a few years ago where it was like, oh, if Duke loses Hank has to go own a cat or something like that. It feels like it feels like that where I like you're

[00:11:28] you're you're I'm agreeing to like a pretty ridiculous challenge here. However, I want all our listeners to sit here and realize this is the length I'm willing to go to see in a lead a lead corner outfield or be added to this team at the deadline.

[00:11:43] Like we are not the GM's. We don't get to make baseball decisions. However, I know the baseball gods can hear us and if they can, I'm telling you, I will fulfill this challenge. If Kyle Tucker is a Mariners, I'm going to ask the listener.

[00:11:56] What do you think is a more likely scenario at this point? Do you think it is more likely that the Mariners will trade for Kyle Tucker or that Lyle will summit Mount Rainier? Leave your comments down below.

[00:12:09] I think I have a pretty good idea of which one I would choose. Okay, I think I just want to know. I want people to know these are the lengths I'm willing to go like and again, like if we actually go through with

[00:12:22] this or like the trade happens and I have to do it like we're vlogging at all because content doesn't stop like we're here for it. If I if anything, it's a win-win. So I hope it happens. I hope I'm forced to hike Mount Everest. Sorry. Now Rainier Rainier.

[00:12:37] Do you want to know my answer? What? I think Kyle Tucker is more likely than you making it up that mountain. TVD. Well, I know you dog. Well, you get to rest. You don't have to like you can take rests. Oh, you can. Yeah, a lot of them.

[00:12:57] You'll need a lot of them. Well, we'll pick it. We'll pick a Mariners off day and we'll do it. You ever climbed up a mountain with two picks? Oh, I wasn't planning on using picks. Am I going to need them?

[00:13:10] Do you think there's just a path, a rocky path all the way to the top? I don't know. I don't hike. Here's your homework dog. I want you to go on YouTube and watch some videos of what people need to do to climb Mount Everest.

[00:13:29] If you think there's like just a nice stone path all the way to the top of the mountain, you would be mistaken. All right. And you know what? We're open to ideas here. So we're for the people were for the listeners.

[00:13:43] If you have better ideas for physical challenges, you think would be best for me to go through if Kyle Tucker becomes an Ameriner. Please DM us. Please drop it in the YouTube comments because we will be open to ideas.

[00:13:54] And again, if Kyle Tucker gets acquired by the Seattle Mariners, I am doing something. I will pay my debts to the baseball gods for their for their favor, but I just need to know from the people what they most want to see and again, we will vlog

[00:14:06] it if it happens to we will turn it into content. How about this? How about this? So here's another option I have for you before we actually talk about Mariners baseball and what they've actually done this week. You can tell how well they played based off

[00:14:18] what we were talking about the start of this episode. How about you? So if you don't want to climb up, you could hike the entire Pacific rest trail, the state of Washington part of the Pacific rest trail. You won't have to go up as much.

[00:14:36] You might not have to scale a rocky wall or an ice wall, but it is a lot of walking. That could be one again. Well, like what if I agreed to do a do an army crawl for like half a mile or a mile to like because

[00:14:51] that's like on your baseball conditioning. Well, it's a long way. Think about think about how long a mile is like on your stomach just crawling. Well, I think your high school baseball coach would say no, that's actually going to be two miles. I could do two miles again.

[00:15:07] Listen, it's up to the listeners. Whatever you want to see drop in the comments and we will turn it into content, but that that is my demand. That's my request. I hope the baseball guys are listening because I'm willing to sacrifice here. At Parker, our purpose is simple.

[00:15:24] We want to make the world a better place by working more efficiently by using more sustainable practices by developing better technologies. We keep moving forward with each new idea, innovation and partnership. We're one step closer to fulfilling our purpose every single day to find out more.

[00:15:45] Visit Parker.com slash purpose. Parker engineering your success. Let's get to our Mariners storylines now and talk about real life things instead of hypotheticals. Let's start off with the injuries this week. Where would you like to start? You want to start with Brian Woo?

[00:16:04] Let's start with Brian Woo because it's the most recent and then we'll talk about Jorge Polanco. So Brian Woo was pitching yesterday on Monday, comes out of the game in the fourth inning on a 60th pitch, strained his hamstring. He had no prior, didn't feel anything his hamstring

[00:16:19] until that pitch. It seems minor but he's going on the IL. He was announced on the IL today. I would guess Lyle that we're not seeing Brian Woo until after the All-Star break. They're going to give him a little bit of rest

[00:16:32] to wait if the schedule works out. He will come off the IL six days before the All-Star break starts and you would have imagined that Brian Woo would have been last out of the rotation out of the All-Star break.

[00:16:48] So it makes sense that with all the off days before that break that they're going to give him that time off, they're going to let his arm rest up, they're going to let his hamstring rest up because hamstrings are pretty nasty

[00:16:59] and they last a while and that they hope to have him fully healthy and not worrying about fatigue or anything down the stretch run of this season. Does that check out? So it does. I was going to say if Brian Woo actually spent

[00:17:14] the minimum 15 days on the IL, he would make one start before the All-Star break. That would be some time either in the two game set on the road against the Padres or in the four game series in Anaheim before the All-Star break.

[00:17:28] You're probably right that unless he is absolutely all systems go to make that one final start before the break, the Mariners will probably opt to just let him get some extra rest and then like you said, have him be the last guy to start out of the

[00:17:43] All-Star break when everybody's fully rested anyway. Well, unless you have guys in the All-Star game because then wouldn't Logan be the last guy out or Kirby or whoever? Well if Logan pitches an inning he could be third and get full rest. Or fourth. Yeah, or fourth.

[00:18:03] But I would imagine since the question coming into the season was about how they're going to manage Brian Wu's innings. Well, the injury is unfortunate but his innings are now managed. Once he comes back healthy given he stays healthy the rest of the season, there should

[00:18:17] be no limit really like they're going to build him back up. But once he's built up I don't think there's going to be a limit. Right, so to that point if Wu is the last guy out of the rotation out of the All-Star break

[00:18:31] that would put him in line to start his home Tuesday, July 23 against the Angel. That's about a month time Brian Wu would miss which sounds like a lot but in the grand scheme of things with the All-Star break with the IELTSEN he'd miss about three stars

[00:18:47] and that's it. He could miss two if he's really all systems go before the All-Star break but you're probably right that between the arm injury between the hamstring injury even though they say the hamstring injury is fairly minor they're probably just going to let him be as truly 100%

[00:19:03] firing on all cylinders for the second half of the year. So yes it sounds like a long time to go a month without seeing Brian Wu but that is probably what they'll opt to do and hopefully that has cleared Brian Wu

[00:19:15] of all injuries for the remainder of the year that is the hope because that's a lot of time that he'll be able to rest everything up and hopefully get back to normal. So they're going to need two starts out of that spot between now and the All-Star break

[00:19:29] given the off days that's what it is. They have an off day on Thursday they'll again have an off day next Monday and then they'll have an off day every Monday until the All-Star break so that's they need two starts out of that spot.

[00:19:43] Yeah so Scott Service hasn't said yet exactly what they're going to do with Wu's spot in the rotation they may skip a start, they may skip his start with the off days built in they haven't confirmed that yet they said they said they're thinking about it

[00:19:55] so it is possible and if that's the case they'll have two starts and honestly that's not the end of the world that's essentially then two games you'd miss Brian Wu for that's it two games in a month's time and Emerson Hancock can absolutely make two stars

[00:20:11] in replacement of Brian Wu and keep the team very very competitive we've seen him do it for we saw him do it the whole first month of the year for the most part we saw him come up and make a spot start just recently here

[00:20:21] he is absolutely like Emerson Hancock is a big league starter and he's pushing in the minor leagues because the Mariners 5 and the rotation are so good so he can absolutely come up and make two quality starters Yeah so that part I'm not worried about

[00:20:33] I wouldn't be a fan of them just using the off days as that fifth day and having everyone just keeping the four they have and go with an extra bullpen arm I told you before like when Scott mentioned this is a possibility don't know

[00:20:49] don't really think that helps the Mariners current starters like the only Mariners starter right now who probably doesn't need extra rest is Logan Gilbert everyone else you could make a case like I think an extra day with those built in off days would really benefit them

[00:21:03] so to get Emerson up it makes sense there'd be spot form on the roster hopefully at that point your bullpen is not gassed and you don't need an extra arm so you hope that and you hope for the rest of this season that we can

[00:21:17] just get Brian Wu two healthy months to end the year two healthy months in a row please. Sure because then if you can do that and he pitches through the end of the regular season come playoff time but I'm right in the bullpen

[00:21:31] and if he's right in the bullpen in the playoffs has a dominant arm to have out of the bullpen in the playoffs like if he had to make a start in the playoffs it's possible Bryce Miller might be in the bullpen

[00:21:41] too in the playoffs they both might be because the Mariners might opt to go with a three-man rotation come playoff time if they get in so yeah to get two healthy months out of Brian Wu to end the year would be

[00:21:49] phenomenal. Yeah and his stuff was looking pretty good in Tampa Bay too which which is unfortunate would have been cool to see what what he would have done if you would have kept going the other injury news this week is Jorge Polanco is finally back and not too

[00:22:03] shockingly Tyler Locklear got sent down and Ryan Bliss was kept on the roster so how do we think the Mariners should balance this going forward are we or should they split should Jorge Polanco get more playing time than Ryan Bliss like we've seen that Ryan

[00:22:19] Bliss will get got some practice reps in the outfield during warm-ups and during early work which is nice to see that he could be some right hand production in the outfield if they need him to be so how do you think they should split that up

[00:22:33] Jorge Polanco should be playing the majority of the time at least for now that's what he was traded here to be that's what he's expected to be it's easy to forget this is still one of the five best offensive second baseman in baseball over the last

[00:22:47] three years entering the start of this season that players in there I know Jorge Polanco has not had the start that anybody wanted through the first basically half a year now he's spent a lot of time injured but I don't think the Mariners are

[00:22:59] giving up on him this fast so for now at least for the next couple weeks I think you're going to see Polanco play the majority of the time you'll probably see Ryan Bliss get mixed in there against lefty some days and play once or

[00:23:11] twice a week you'll see him come into games late but like I don't know exactly what their plan is with Bliss I don't know if they value him more being in the minors and getting regular at bats or if they are okay with him being a utility infielder

[00:23:27] long term who can also potentially stand out in left field if that's the case then Bliss will stay in the majors and just play when he's asked to play but for now I think you're going to see Polanco get the majority of the time

[00:23:39] because again for the Mariners to be the team they assembled this team to be before the start of the year it involves Jorge Polanco being the second or third best bat in the lineup so they're not going to give up on that yet

[00:23:49] I think they're going to want Ryan Bliss to get at bats every day I don't know exactly where that is so I think over the short term I think Bliss will play a BENTRAL but I don't know if it'll be anything beyond a couple of weeks

[00:24:01] the Mariners are better with Ryan Bliss in the lineup and on the bench because he's fast steel spaces he's been on a heater at the plate and he plays good defense too even though his arm strength is not great so he checks all those boxes

[00:24:13] but as you said Jorge Polanco has to play he's not going to get back in a groove if he's not playing, if the Mariners decide because he's not playing well or hadn't played well before he got hurt then he should be like splitting time with Ryan Bliss

[00:24:27] but no he's got to play every day and he's going to get to play every day because the other core players of this lineup overall now in the course of the season it's not June but you know Julio's been the lowly Gavraged WRC plus

[00:24:41] so is JP Crawford, so is Cal Raleigh so it's not like Jorge Polanco is alone on the struggle bus if he was alone on the struggle bus there could be a lot more justification of saying okay well the rest of the lineup around Jorge Polanco is good

[00:24:57] let's put Ryan Bliss in there it'll be easier for him to hit there will be less pressure on him and you know it's not as important that we have our second baseman be the best hitter in the lineup well unfortunately right now like

[00:25:11] since no one else is hitting it's almost one of the best courses of action that Jorge Polanco gets back to being a good offensive player I do think it was interesting that game one of him being back on Monday he hits

[00:25:23] in the two hole has one bad game and gets dropped all the way back down to the six the six hole yeah I don't know if they just didn't love what they saw in his first game back or realize maybe that's too much

[00:25:35] to ask of him right away coming back to hit him that high in the lineup and they want to acclimate him back in who knows like his first two games haven't looked great he had one infield single here on Tuesday but it was on a swinging

[00:25:47] bunt too so that's about it we're gonna have to see how it plays out over the next few weeks here but yeah I think look the most important thing for him is he just needs to hit I don't care if it's first second or ninth wherever

[00:26:01] like put him where you think he's gonna be best suited to have success and if he starts hitting worry about it later it's my turn yes no um he does he will have a leash to get back in his groove but

[00:26:18] I thought there been some good points made about this now that we've seen what bliss can do over a short sample size and what Polanco can do as well if like so if we're picking who does what better so Jorge Plonko is a better hitter

[00:26:33] than Ryan Bliss right now he's not is he better base runner no better defender uh no no um switch hits so he has that positional versatility I guess it's bliss yeah because I mean Polanco can play 30 hasn't played any third this year right so

[00:26:58] we have the bat for one and the rest of it with Ryan bliss that's why the leash will not be infinite if they really like if it burns out sometime later then sure it would be more Ryan bliss I would say though odds are Ryan bliss

[00:27:16] will see some more time in Tacoma before that opportunity happens I would say I have a hard time seeing him being on the bench that long or the decision being made with made with Polanco giving he's healthy that short for bliss to not go down and then be

[00:27:32] inserted to play every day at second base sure yeah I think that's right ultimately I'm happy Jorge Plonko is back because it gives the Mariners the opportunity to get a real bat back end of the slide up you saw him absolutely crush the ball

[00:27:44] during his rehab assignment hopefully this hamstring stuff is fully behind him and he can get going I know the first couple games haven't looked great but it is also two games let's give it a couple weeks and then re-evaluate that is before we get to our next storyline

[00:27:58] let's take a pause we're going to talk to you guys about our friends at Pagacas top 85 if you want to get out and watch the Mariners you want to just go have a day with your friends an evening out with your friends you can head over there

[00:28:08] great drinks, great food there's games to play, there's darts and there's pool and there's all the sports you can imagine to watch because there's over 20 TVs in that place you go during happy hour, drink specials are $3 and $4 3 and $4 drinks those are pretty good deals we say so ourselves

[00:28:24] so get out and get over to Pagacas top 85 over in Curb storyline number 2 it's funny that this has gotten buried to the point that it's at right now in time of recording of the podcast because this is probably the biggest story in Mariners world right now

[00:28:40] aside from the fact that they have had a pretty tough road trip which is what in the hell is going on with these home road splits especially on the pitching side well I'm coming to the conclusion that this might not be a good road pitching staff

[00:28:56] not good period like this is a staff that we've tabbed at times as the best staff in baseball but I'm not even sure they're good away from T-Mobile park legitimately I'm not there's some very concerning things when we're talking about the splits between how

[00:29:10] the Mariners pitch and their a home park at T-Mobile park and how they pitch away from it and given they still pitch in good pitchers parks on the road and yet are not successful why is that so let's paint the background picture for those of you not aware

[00:29:24] of the home road differences they pitched about the same amount of innings at home and on the road at home they have a 254 ERA they've given up 33 homers and they've given up a 556 OPS against on the road the ERA is at 4.49 they've given up

[00:29:44] 18 more home runs and this was by the way before today and a 718 OPS against the whip is a third of a number higher what whip walks and hits per inning pitch the strikeouts are way up at home and the walks are way up on the road simply put

[00:30:02] they are the best pitching staff in baseball at home and they are a mediocre pitching staff on the road that's what that is that's what the first half of this 2024 season has told us but why it's the same pitchers it's the same stuff and yet away from home

[00:30:24] it is not good so I'm going to be totally honest and we get into this with Gary Hill a little bit too in our conversation with them I don't know if there is a quantifiable reason you can put your finger on

[00:30:38] if you just want to look at what the Mariners have done at home versus road the last two years a season ago they had a team ERA pitching wise 342 at home it was 407 on the road so yes they were better in T-Mobile part

[00:30:52] it was certainly not as drastic as it is right now 2022 326 team ERA at home so not quite the performance they are putting up in 2024 where it's been magnificent but it was also a 394 team ERA on the road so this is not a regular annual occurrence

[00:31:08] it's going to be all-worldly inside of T-Mobile part and a below average staff when they go on the road no this is significant to this season and it has never been this drastic before and what is the reason behind it

[00:31:22] look we can pin, we can try and pinpoint a couple things here but I'm not sure if it goes anything beyond you are going to be left guessing is it because the crowd pumps them up so much at home is it because obviously the conditions

[00:31:36] are a little bit more suitable for pitchers at home a little bit it is the friendliest pitchers park in baseball team mobile park but is it a comfortability thing where they just have the routine of being in Seattle I don't know

[00:31:50] because the split should not be this drastic like the one that stands out the most here before I let you try to pinpoint some reasons why it might be happening because I know you have a theory or two but I just keep looking at Bryce Miller

[00:32:04] look he is not the only one with some drastic splits home and road this year like George Kirby has some decently drastic splits Luis Castillo splits are now pretty drastic especially after the start here on Tuesday Bryce Miller man I mean you are talking about a

[00:32:18] 182 ERA at home this year and a 628 ERA on the road I don't know is that just going to level itself out I have no idea because that is drastic how is it possible for a pitching staff to have a whiff rate at home that is first in baseball

[00:32:40] first do you want to guess where they are on the road 22nd 4th 24th oh 24th are there you're about to tell me there were 4th no no no no so how is it the pitchers that throw the same pitches at home and on the road

[00:32:57] have a drop off of 24 spots 24 spots so there is an article out there on picture list which we would encourage anybody to read if you haven't and they detail a lot of what the numbers look like in 2023 in terms of pitching in T-Mobile versus pitching outside of T-Mobile

[00:33:15] and along with T-Mobile park being a very friendly pitchers park in a pitchers environment it's also a strikeout environment because you look at the whiff numbers home versus road especially last year and they are a little bit more favorable in Seattle a little bit but it's not

[00:33:33] first to 24th I can tell you that yeah what's interesting about that article I'm going to get into that here in a second paint a little bit of background on why this article is so important so T-Mobile park for example if you weren't aware

[00:33:47] Statcast has a way they measure ballpark run environments called park factor and park factor takes it it's like a three year rolling average offensive production in a ballpark 100 is average higher is better lower is worse the manner is at 92 that is far and away the worst

[00:34:03] hitters environment the next closest is city field that's at 95 3 percentage points in something like this is pretty drastic especially below 100 if you take a look at those teams that are below the 100 level it is the worst ballpark for quality of for Woba on contact

[00:34:21] which is called Woba con it looks like bacon but it's actually how much damage are the balls you're putting in play doing and that's what that represents and T-Mobile park is the worst in baseball at that it is at or near the bottom in all of singles

[00:34:35] doubles and triples individually on offensive production shockingly though the thing that comes up the most Lyle about T-Mobile park is that the ball doesn't carry T-Mobile park over the last three seasons is 11th in baseball in home run or sorry not 11th middle of the pack

[00:34:55] in home runs Mariners are 11th in homers this season but T-Mobile park a park that does not allegedly does not let fly balls fly out of the ballpark is middle of the pack in baseball and home runs so that doesn't make much sense

[00:35:11] so you're telling me the balls they say the balls get knocked down in the thick air with the balls that you hit more in the line drive actually don't do anything that doesn't really make doesn't make a whole lot of sense but also here's the most important one

[00:35:25] it's the strikeouts T-Mobile park over the last three seasons has been the best park in baseball for pitcher strikeouts on both sides yes you can make a joke that the Mariners know shit TJ the Mariners strikeout a lot of course the park factor is gonna say

[00:35:43] T-Mobile park has the best strikeout factor and you know I could be an OK point an OK point but it's not everything because the Mariners don't take every at bat at T-Mobile park so here's what I think this pitcher list article tries to highlight it highlights

[00:35:59] that the impact that T-Mobile park has specifically is fastballs that's what it has the most effect on saying that the difference of home versus road like with rates contact rates on fastballs is drastic and it's enough to say that could be a reason right not

[00:36:25] more than breaking balls it's more than off-speed pitches it is fastballs at T-Mobile park I have one more thing to add but I'll let you respond to that first well even if fastballs play up that much more in Seattle than anywhere else I still don't think that answers

[00:36:43] the question of why it is so drastic in terms of the differences between home and road that should factor into it a little bit but to be as drastic of a pitching staff this year at home versus on the road again like I'll go back to this

[00:36:59] I don't think there is a quantifiable answer here I really don't like if you want to look at the strikeouts like we're going to use 2023 data here because this is what the article is about and last year looking at the rotation Brian Woo had almost a 10% difference

[00:37:17] between strikeout rate at home and on the road Luis Castillo and George Kirby were a little over 7% in terms of difference so there were some differences there in terms of home versus road strikeout rate and those guys I would say Castillo and Woo especially sure rely

[00:37:35] on strikeouts but to the point where Castillo entering his start today had a 434 road compared to a 2-9 at home and now after another tough outing here in Tampa it's probably going to get closer to 5 the fact that fastballs are more effective at T-Mobile

[00:37:55] Park doesn't answer enough of the question of how it's this drastic but the Mariners are a primary fastball team that's why they're so good they attack the strike zone with velocity that's what they've tried to preach but this is okay but this is the

[00:38:11] same rotation that they had a year ago and the splits weren't this drastic last year wasn't this drastic two years ago it is a different offensive environment this year we've articulated that how offense is down and perhaps it plays up a little bit so I have some numbers

[00:38:27] this year I went in I did a little bit of digging myself and it backs up what Adam who wrote this picture list article found when he was looking at 2023 and I think he looked at 22 and 21 as well when he's trying to find some of those

[00:38:43] withphrases but I found as well like looking at the Mariners pitching staff as a whole you would assume based on the reputation of Mariners pitching that they're off speed and breaking balls would be held in pretty high regard no matter where they play right sure yeah when you

[00:39:03] look at the baseball savon you try and find some results based numbers on how the Mariners off speed pitches have performed this year I looked at two numbers I looked at expected ex wobe which is quality of contact what's the quality of contact

[00:39:17] against that pitch higher is lower lowers better or higher is worse lowers better the average is I think about 310 and then I looked at with rate as well do you realize those pitches they're off speed pitches and breaking balls were middle the pack at home and then

[00:39:35] on the road they got a lot worse so into like the bottom 30% of baseball in terms of effectiveness on those two those two stats so that's that but when you look at fast balls while the Mariners this year have the best fastball with rate by far

[00:39:54] and the best quality of contact against their fastballs at home then when they go on the road it turns into a middle of the road pitch so let me summarize this so when the Mariners are at home this year they pair middle of the pack breaking stuff

[00:40:10] overall as an entire staff you could probably nitpick with more specific guys but overall you take the best fastballs based on quality of contact and strike out rate in baseball and you pair it with good breaking stuff but then when you go on

[00:40:26] the road you have a middle of the road fastball effectiveness and you pair it with bottom 30% off speed and breaking pitches and that right there that doesn't signal best staff in baseball and then we stop you almost get to the point where you're like

[00:40:44] oh well that makes sense so maybe there aren't actually that good on the road like the results say they're not that good on the road but the numbers also represent yeah they might just not be good pitchers on the road period when we're sitting here

[00:40:56] expecting them to be good still just fascinating it's fascinating that changing states and hopping on a plane to go anywhere else is tanking their ERAs on the road because it's not going to Cincinnati and that's tanking their ERAs or going to the old Texas

[00:41:16] ballpark which was a hitters park or going to Colorado constantly they play in pitchers parks that's why that's why this is so puzzling to me because look Seattle is the friendliest pitchers park but it's not like they play in no other pitchers park

[00:41:34] yet it doesn't seem to matter where they go this year and it's killing them and if you want to go back to the strikeout rate thing if you want to make the argument of okay Castillo and Woo are two pitchers that rely a lot

[00:41:46] on strikeout rate and the fact that their strikeout rate at least last year took a decent jump down when they go on the road maybe it affected them a little bit okay but like I'll say it again last year the road ERA wasn't like that

[00:41:58] look at George Kirby Kirby doesn't rely on strikeouts this is another guy that's got drastic home road splits despite not relying on the strikeout and again it doesn't seem to matter what park they go to it's affecting them everywhere I don't know and there's stuff mentioned in this

[00:42:16] article about the batters eye and the batters eye could absolutely be contributing we we've talked more about the T-Mobile Park batters eye in the last two weeks than I ever imagined when we started this podcast we'd be talking about but yeah we've been talking about this article brings

[00:42:30] up you know the slanted nature of the batters eye and one of the many reasons could be that fastballs on that batters eye just look different than they do anywhere else it is possible that specific pitch could look different than it does anywhere else

[00:42:48] a right-handed because the Mariners have we'll use the majority of their innings in the rotation as the sample there mostly all right-handed pitchers that a right-handed throwing fastball is the worst combination to have when looking at that batters eye and what it does to pitches

[00:43:06] yeah it could be well I hadn't even given it that much thought until we hopped on Trevor May's podcast Mayday with him a couple weeks ago and he started to bring it up and say I think this is a real thing

[00:43:18] he said he's talked about it with a few different people and they think it's affected guys and again I hadn't given it too much thought and then we started to give it more thought in the fact that yeah it is a unique batters eye it is

[00:43:30] unique in the way that it's pushed decently far back it's not right up against the wall it's slanted it's you know it's different than a lot of ballparks and maybe it really does affect hitters maybe it affected Teosca Hernandez

[00:43:44] last year when he was in Seattle and to that point maybe it makes it that much harder for road hitters to pick up Seattle pitchers at home maybe that's a real thing we don't know that but it could be here's what my conclusion will be from this

[00:43:58] is that it's I have a hard time seeing the Mariners winning the division if this road these road struggles keep up if the drop off continues to be this drastic they're not winning the division you only get half your games at home you gotta go at least

[00:44:14] compete on the road and some of these recent results on the road have just not been good enough right and you look at your rotation I'll say it again Bryce Miller's ERA on the road is over six Luis Castillo's ERA on the road

[00:44:26] is probably gonna be close to five when it all updates on Wednesday morning George Kirby's gonna enter his start on Wednesday with a 441 road ERA those are three guys in the rotation that have very very unfavoring road numbers this year you cannot roll into road series

[00:44:44] with your starters just being non competitive on the road it's just not gonna work because like their series where all three of those guys may need to pitch all at once and all three of them can't just blow up and the Mariners

[00:44:56] and the Mariners have success it's just not gonna work it's gonna have to turn around and based on how this is going we talked can the Mariners just get into the playoffs with this rotation just get into the playoffs with this rotation like no they need to go

[00:45:08] get into the playoffs and play at home with this rotation that's where the difference is right now things could change in the second half but as of right now the only way this rotation does what we thought we it would at the beginning of the season

[00:45:22] in a playoff series is if they're playing those games at home and if you don't win the division it is really hard to get a home a home series yeah it is and it affected the Mariners in 2022 when they made the playoffs they didn't have a home series

[00:45:36] not in Toronto but that Houston series could have looked a lot different if they had more games in Seattle I'll tell you that especially if the first two were in Seattle I enjoyed Gary Hill's perspective on this so we lead off the interview

[00:45:48] talking to Gary a little bit about food not to lie but we also talked about this specific issue and Gary brings up a good point different from what we just talked about it was less about number specific and more about execution and such so that

[00:46:06] was part of the conversation with Gary Hill but it's good to get to catch up with Gary and get his perspective on the Mariners roster talked a little bit about Julio talked a little bit about the Mariners trade deadline upcoming Gary's great he's

[00:46:20] a friend of the pod now recurring guest awesome to get him back on A plus human being and overall a very good conversation to have with Gary Hill it always is he's an A plus everything he's an A plus broadcaster

[00:46:34] I know we didn't talk that much nitty gritty broadcasting with Gary on this interview but he really is a phenomenal broadcaster and aside from that like he's knowledgeable he thinks about baseball the way the two of us and a lot of our listeners think about it

[00:46:50] he's very tuned in on all of the metrics and all the numbers so yeah and above everything else great and always fun to talk to you will get smarter listening to Gary Hill talk about baseball so hopefully you do that here let's get you now to that conversation

[00:47:06] with Gary Hill Jr. alright we've got Mariners broadcaster Gary Hill Jr. on with us all the way from south Florida recording here on Tuesday Gary thanks so much for taking some time to join us just want to check in on something that we ended our last

[00:47:24] interview with with you last year how do we have an update on the food tour? food tours food tours going great Aaron I went to a good place when we first got in right across the street here I would say the food tour is going great for Aaron

[00:47:42] I just tag along and it's worked out fine it works out great for me he does all the work he figures out where to go and I just go so it's perfect but you still get to enjoy it you still check some boxes and say well I did

[00:47:56] I didn't know that before now I do no I think I have it the best because I literally don't do anything he figures it all out where to go and I just tag along and eat good food so I think I have it the best actually

[00:48:10] so what's the story I heard the other night about $9 fried chicken in Miami so you know we actually don't get a lot of dinners on the road because usually it's night games and if it's a day game it's usually a getaway day so we don't

[00:48:28] get that many opportunities to actually have dinner on the road and in Miami we did and Aaron ended up ordering I think four different proteins during the meal but we're looking at the menu and it's like this fried chicken is $9 how do we not order this

[00:48:46] and so we did because I think he ordered crab chicken cornbread there's like nine things I don't think the table was big enough which happens sometimes sometimes we need just another table for the two of us it was epic it was an epic night it sounds like

[00:49:08] $9 you got to do it so we did that sounds like this is reminiscing of I scrolled past a tweet last night that was like reminiscing on Max Scherzer going down to the minor leagues and just buying a spread to the minor leagueers with steak

[00:49:22] and lobster that's essentially what it sounds like Goldie did so he I think it's partially if I'm going to guess here partially because he likes eating and likes eating a lot of different things but also wants to make sure you're well fed

[00:49:34] as well Gary because you scouted this all out yeah he keeps me alive on the road so that's what's nice if I was up to my own devices I'm not sure I'd make it especially on a long trip like this so he's influential in that

[00:49:48] if we were going to get into a little bit of baseball talk here Gary I mean as we're recording this road trips getting pretty close to wrapping up there's two games left to go for people that need to hear it because especially from what we

[00:50:00] see I'm sure you see a little bit of it too it seems like people need the following a little bit right now you want to talk people off the ledge a little bit for why everything's going to be alright oh okay I

[00:50:10] can do that well first of all you would rather be in the Mariners position than anyone else's position right in the division the Mariners have been on the other end of this thing the last three years being the team that is chasing Texas and chasing Houston

[00:50:24] it's a much different situation to be the team being chased so let's just start right there that's a better place to be in and while they were up 10 games and while we would have loved if they would just put the foot on the gas

[00:50:40] and made it an 18 game lead or whatever I don't know how realistic that was because I still feel like Houston's a good team and I still feel like Texas is a good team so it's hard to imagine they just would have floated away

[00:50:56] it did open my eyes you know Houston got in a soft part of the schedule where they took series from the Angels and the Tigers and the White Sox the Baltimore sweep did really open some eyes because not only did it close the gap

[00:51:10] because the Mariners are struggling to get Tucker too and they did it after Baltimore steamrolled the Yankees so I thought that was really impressive Houston to me is not dead until they are so they're just going to be a team that's going to be right there and

[00:51:26] for the Mariners you know it's the thing where they've been great at home historically good at home their pitching has been they have the best team ERA they've ever had at home the lowest batting average the lowest on base percentage

[00:51:44] in history at home and not the Mariners history I'm talking about like the last 100 years of baseball history and so it becomes a math equation like when you're looking at the difference between they've been one of the best home teams in baseball and they're under 500 on the road

[00:51:58] the difference is they're giving up two more runs on the road their ERA is two runs higher on the road than it is at home so those close wins at home are turning into close losses on the road that doesn't have to continue

[00:52:15] for the rest of the year right I mean the offense can get better they can get better in the back of the bullpen I think for the most part they've done a good job in the bullpen trying to manage a really difficult situation because

[00:52:29] they had a big four coming into the season and it's been a big one instead with Munoz because you haven't had Spire hurt most of the year you haven't had Brash at all so maybe Santos gets back maybe you add to the mix and that situation

[00:52:43] becomes different than it is right now and as much as we've talked about the trade deadline I really feel like the key is for the offense to get better internally and there's a lot of different guys that are going to be a part of that

[00:52:57] and Julio is going to be a big part of that too especially on the power side so while this has not been a great road trip and it hasn't been fun to watch the lead kind of whittle away that was 10 games you still if you would have said

[00:53:11] on June 25th they would have had this lead in the AL West right now you would have taken that into heart beat and you just hope they get better on the road and can extend this thing out and Houston and Texas not tracking down

[00:53:25] so that's kind of how I look at it and I know it can be hard to look at it that way especially in the moment especially on a trip like this but hey for all we know

[00:53:35] the Mariners are going to take the next couple of games in Tampa and come home and have a great homestand again so we'll see what happens you noted the drastic home road splits do you have any semblance especially pitching wise of why that is

[00:53:51] I'm trying to look at it and trying to figure out how like T-Mobile parks are really good pitchers park but it's not like they're going to places that are the absolute antithesis of T-Mobile parks like no there's still better pitching parks that they'll go to on the road

[00:54:09] but still not perform as well so it's kind of like a puzzle do you have any answer on what the piece might be of why that is yeah it's a great question I've been looking at this for a while trying to figure out exactly what's going on

[00:54:23] I don't think there is one answer and I think there is some mystery there to what's going on and I think the park is part of it I don't think the park explains the drastic difference because there are some wide differences

[00:54:37] and there's I mean the ERA as I mentioned it's two and a half at home it's over four and a half on the road that's a big gulf and there's two things I look at that I find interesting when you kind of look at the numbers

[00:54:49] one is they're just giving up a lot more homeruns on the road and again parks probably part of that it's definitely not all of that though it's a wide gulf it's like 20 plus homeruns more on the road than they give up at home

[00:55:01] and right now the games are pretty equal so we're talking about I think they played two more road games than they have home games so the numbers are pretty equal and you look at it one of the things that I find super fascinating is they strike out

[00:55:15] nearly 100 more hitters at home on the road so far just raw numbers so their case per nine is like nine and a half at home and like seven and a half on the road so that's the kind of thing when you talk about park it's like well

[00:55:31] the park can't explain strikeouts right so what is going on here how can the strikeouts be that difference because there's some things you can explain homeruns and maybe eRA but when it got to strikeouts I was scratching my head we asked Scott Service this the other day

[00:55:47] and he feels like they are not getting into the same advantageous counts at home as they are on the road and you look at the numbers there's a big difference between an 0-1 count and a 1-0 count and how in a bat plays out

[00:56:03] or a 1-2 count and a 2-1 count so that is probably part of it park is probably part of it I don't know there's probably some other things that play here but I do think there's still some mystery there and some unexplainable

[00:56:19] things and maybe schedule is part of it too if you look at some of the road teams coming up and they have a chance to do some damage on the road although you could have said that about Miami and they didn't in Miami so

[00:56:31] I don't know I'm curious to see if this evens out a little bit but it's weird how it's played out in this way and the strikeouts thing I don't know I can't explain it fully and you sometimes want to use the mariner's offense as well to try

[00:56:45] and find an answer because they also have to play both the same amount of games on that park and the same amount of games away from that park but the numbers aren't the same it's a little bit different on the road but it's pretty similar it's not

[00:57:01] it's almost as if the mariner's I feel like have built the right kind of pitching staff for T-Mobile Park that just might not work anywhere else and no one else really replicates what the mariner's do pitching wise on the road I like

[00:57:17] that would be my best guess of what this is so I would say yeah if the mariner's pitching staff works great at home obviously and you write about the offensive numbers there are some differences like they're slugging I think 20 points higher on the road so

[00:57:35] that is different but it's not the same difference as the pitching side if that makes sense they don't equal out I would say the rotation plays no matter where you are although you know Bryce Miller is kind of an example of individually the team right like his splits

[00:57:55] are pretty vast now between what's happening at home and what's happening on the road and we are talking about for a starter I don't know it's not a huge sample you get lit up in a couple of road starts that changes everything dramatically so I don't know

[00:58:09] if we can draw conclusions as Bryce Miller doesn't pitch well on the road like I don't know if it's fair to make a statement like that but it is interesting I do think their rotation plays anywhere I think Munoz plays anywhere and I don't know like so

[00:58:29] I just go round and around on this trying to figure it out sometimes it is it's really tricky to think about and you know maybe it's just one of those things that in the second half of the season they go on a road run I don't know

[00:58:43] I guess we'll see I guess like I think the three of us are similar thinkers when it comes to baseball a lot of the time that we like to look into this stuff and dig deep into some of the numbers but

[00:58:55] the best takeaway I've had from this so far is I don't know maybe it's a comdability thing maybe it's playing in front of the home crowd thing and you can't quantify that but because you can't seem to anybody

[00:59:07] can't seem to figure out any of the numbers of why this is happening that might be my best guess at this point yeah and I go maybe goes back to what I said originally like maybe there's a bunch of different

[00:59:17] factors at play and maybe that's part of it too I mean we know play on the road is harder like I would not expect them to have as good a record on the road as they do at home it's just I would not

[00:59:27] expect it to be the golf to be this wide so I would like to think we'll get better on the road as we go but for me it just right now it's become a simple math equation like they're just they're giving up those two more runs on the

[00:59:43] road and when you're playing so many close games those close wins at home are close losses on the road so it points to like the first game in Tampa is a great example they had a 3-1 lead but it's tough when

[00:59:57] you're asking your bullpen to pitch on such a small margin for era every single night and I just feel like you're more likely to lose those games on the road than you are at home too I think that's part of it like in a one run game

[01:00:11] two run game you're probably more likely to lose that game on the road than you are at home so maybe that's some of it too I want to ask about Julio we could sit here and talk about his numbers all we want it's pretty evident it's out there

[01:00:25] in front but I want to ask you about what people don't get to see with Julio as he's here in year 3 still just 23 years old how have you felt like you know he's handled everything else besides what happens when the lights are on and the games

[01:00:41] are being played this season where is he at with that I think he handles it great because he's got a lot of pressure on him as we know and I think he puts he puts in the work there's no question about that he's been a great

[01:00:57] teammate he's been a really valuable player when you look at him as a whole like defensively in center field he's been excellent he's done some good things offensively it's just we always look at Julio through the lens of expectations right because we everyone has really

[01:01:15] high expectations for Julio and part of that has been who he's been so far in his career right he's been he's been great and so I think all of us even when he started slowly we expected the great surge to come at some point

[01:01:31] and it hasn't and it really I think we're talking about power specifically like he's done batting average wise some things like that the exavilo has been there we're just talking about the pulling balls in the air for homers and that's been the difference

[01:01:45] I think because if you add that to the mix like everything else in my mind has been there base paths defense you know all that all of the greatness that makes Julio great has all been there except the pull power for home runs and as we've seen

[01:02:03] I'm still waiting for the binge to happen because we've seen it happen we've seen it click and we've seen it click just like just out of the blue and when he goes he can go on a two week, three week one month stretch

[01:02:17] where he's just the best player in baseball because we've seen it multiple times so and it's the fact of the matter is he changes the offense when he's like that and he's really the only guy like that that can carry the offense for a sustained period of time

[01:02:37] he's a huge difference maker and I do feel like like he wants to be great he wants the team to be great he wants to win and I think he puts that pressure on himself sometimes which it comes from a good place like we all love that

[01:02:53] about Julio right? Like we all love he wants to be great and he wants to win it's just sometimes I think you can see in it when he puts the pressure on himself and tries to do a little too much Speaking of the offense

[01:03:07] I want to talk about somebody in a little bit more of like a positive light here because Mitch Garber's had a phenomenal June and we talked about a lot before the start of the year that not named Julio Rodriguez he was the most important bat

[01:03:21] in this lineup I still feel that way and now seeing what he's doing in June and now that he's really gotten going do you feel like we're starting to see some of that? Yes I feel like he has been the guy they were hoping to have this year

[01:03:37] because he's been an on-base machine and he's been slugging and that's Mitch Garber that's it right there I think it's so funny that coincided with him starting to catch too super interesting and that's part of me when I think about this offense and getting better

[01:03:57] if Julio does go on a run if Mitch Garber is this maybe Polanco can be better too you can map out a scenario where they can get better offensively and they don't have to be a top 5 offense we're talking about their margins have been so small

[01:04:13] at home and road and on the road you're asking for a run or two right? consistently like most nights when they get to 4 runs they're going to win that's not a top 5 offense that's a top half offense that's what we're asking for

[01:04:31] so I think you can look at different parts and different pieces of the offense and say and map out internally how they do that and Garber is certainly a big part of that Do you feel like have been in your conversations with him

[01:04:45] do you feel like it's been a different adjustment for him this year he's always been a fastball hitter but this year the production especially against breaking balls has disappeared it has been almost non-existent and yet despite that despite something pitchers throw 30% of the time

[01:05:03] is that he can't do any damage against he's still managing to turn it around and produce do you get that sense from him not this year but I've still found a way around it yeah he is really interesting to talk hitting with and he's a guy that's

[01:05:23] I don't know if Tinker is the right way to phrase it but he's always changing and adjusting you're right he has absolutely mashed fastballs the last number of years he's made his living on mashing fastballs that's where the vast majority of production comes from

[01:05:41] the gulf this year has been really wide as you point out and I think I don't know talking to him about hitting and how he looks at it just a lot of ways he has been an example of what the Mariners have been especially with the spin

[01:06:03] like the Mariners overall have struggled with spin this year and as you point out Garver has struggled with spin this year but he's a guy that has done a lot of adjusting in his career and adjusted well in his career and I expect him

[01:06:17] to do the same now I don't think is I don't think his production on spin will match his heater production because that's where he's made that's where he's made his money mashing fastballs but I think it'll be better if we're okay so if we're going to keep

[01:06:33] talking offense here and and I'm with all that they keep Ryan Bliss around the Mariners keep Ryan Bliss here this week they said lock their back with Polanco coming back we even saw some reports this week that he started to take a little

[01:06:45] bit of time and take some reps in left field here or in the outfield I should say but with how hot he's now started to get over this road trip paired with the fact of what he can do not just on the at the plate

[01:06:57] but on the base pads like what does he do for this team keeping him around now like can he play that Jose Caballero role that's a great question I'm curious to see how long this lasts because at some point you do

[01:07:12] want him to play and you don't want him to you know it's the reason why they brought in Robles and sent class A down because Robles slid into the exact role class A was playing right kind of the hey you're going to start against lefties

[01:07:28] defense replacement pinch run that kind of role because the problem is with a 21 year old you don't want them in that role because you don't want them to not start for five days in a row six days in a row something like that so

[01:07:42] that's why they sent Locklear out because there was no path to playing time for Locklear when you have a DH and first baseman that's where Locklear plays there was nowhere to go so with Bliss he does more for you because

[01:07:56] he can pinch run late in the ball game and help you there he can play second base he can play shortstop if needed the outfield thing is interesting and I don't think it's like hey Ryan Bliss is going to start in left field I think it's

[01:08:10] Bliss could pinch run late in a ball game and stand in left field for an inning or two and catch a fly ball if there's one hit to him if needed it's that sort of thing I don't look at it as kind of a

[01:08:20] position switch or anything like that but I wonder like if Polanco starts to cook offensively right he's going to play he's going to play every day and then you have you have Dylan Moore you're trying to fit in as well so I do wonder if those guys

[01:08:38] start to hit is there path for playing time for Bliss and I know this is the way it is now we'll see how it is in the next week or so and if Polanco doesn't hit maybe that opens the door back for Bliss to get

[01:08:52] some more playing time against lefties and maybe even more now Bliss had he's had a really nice road trip a couple of really great games against the Marlins so it's great to see he's shown he's been interesting he's been intriguing I think overall but we'll see how

[01:09:08] it plays out the next couple of weeks and I think a lot of it hinges on the production from Polanco to be honest so you mentioned Polanco is him turning it around right now at this point the most important thing for the offense let's throw Julio out

[01:09:22] because that's a I think number one in every sense of the way Garver's hitting and we've talked about Bliss's very good production here over the last few weeks outside of those guys is it Polanco who keys this offensive turnaround is it J.P. Crawford

[01:09:40] is it Ty France getting back to what he was doing before he went on the injured list what which of those guys do you think it would be or yeah you know that it's a really great question and it's so funny as you go down the list

[01:09:54] you can say yes yes I mean part of it is and I'm not I will get back to the original question part of it is they need to get better in multiple spots right like J.P. you'd love to see him

[01:10:08] I think it's too much to ask him to be at the level he was last year because for all we know that could be a career year he was great last year but can he get closer to that compared to this year can Cal be more consistent offensively

[01:10:20] this year you get a little more that can Julio get better hit form all right I just think you got to get better in several different areas but if I were to if you if I had to key on one guy to me it is

[01:10:34] Polanco part of it is who he's been in the past also I don't know the way I think about this lineup right now and I thought it was really interesting he about it second last night it would add a lot of balance to the lineup

[01:10:48] if you could get Polanco producing and also producing from the second spot in the order because they've written Rojas and more in those spots when they've had the hot hand now what's what is the next version of this lineup look like and maybe hopefully fingers crossed

[01:11:06] it could be Polanco in that spot because if you're going to bet Julio third you know what I mean there there's some interesting lineup questions that I think get answered if Polanco is the guy you're hoping he'd be like could it just be as simple

[01:11:22] as finding a productive two hitter like we've mentioned you mentioned writing the hot hand but the hot hands haven't lasted forever and the amount of rotation out of that number two spot hitting behind JP has it's you know it's been pretty decent

[01:11:38] I think they wanted Polanco to hit second or third when they traded for him but he spent all this time on the injured list Julio spent time in the two hole what got moved down and now sits in the three hole and they haven't really

[01:11:52] tried like someone like Ty France in the two hole they haven't tried Cal's not really a two hole hitter and he's of course struggled over the last month so like the two hitter could it could be the key right and it could ultimate like you said

[01:12:08] ultimately just be Polanco to fix that all out so like it that's where it comes with like the multiple spots right like multiple spots the two hole hitting behind the guy who walks a lot you get more power out of your three hole

[01:12:22] and then you get a little bit more consistency on your home run hitters Cal hitting fourth or fifth or wherever it is and then whoever else hits behind yeah I like the way you phrase that because generally I'm not a huge lineup construction guy in a general

[01:12:38] sense I just want your best hitters at the top of the order if a guy's batting second or third whatever it's a flip of the coin generally but I do feel like there's been something about the two hole this year for the Mariners

[01:12:50] for all the reasons that you just pointed out and if they could find some consistency there and I have a believer like we see teams put their best hitter in the two hole a lot these days and I think there's a reason for it and I think

[01:13:04] there's a lot of numbers will tell you it's a good thing to do but the Mariners just haven't had they haven't found consistency there. Rojas was good there for a while and Moore was good there for a while obviously but Julio never caught fire there and you said

[01:13:20] it all so it would solve so many things if Palanquin could be that guy in that spot I think and then it feels like it feels like you'd have something to build around at the top of the lineup too if we're going to talk trade

[01:13:34] deadline here for a minute because it seems to be the topic that everybody loves to talk about here if you have to identify it doesn't even have to be a specific player but I'll say a specific player or a specific area of need that you think the Mariners

[01:13:48] would benefit from acquiring at the deadline what is it well this part of the question is easy I think I think we can all identify what they could use I mean they could use another bat they could I think they could use another arm in the back

[01:14:06] end of the bullpen maybe they need a couple of bats and maybe this is the question I think when you start to get into specifics like do you feel like they would be better off landing a star do you feel like they'd be better off landing

[01:14:22] two second tier kind of bats so this is the problem I always have with trade deadlines is like you could come at me with a list of like 20 dudes and say hey what do you think of them and I'd say yes yes yes I mean

[01:14:40] I could come up with 100 guys that would help the Mariners right now I think what's difficult about the trade deadline and specifically about this trade deadline is okay who's actually available and what are they actually going to cost and the reason I have a hard time

[01:14:58] talking about the trade deadline is I feel like I'm generally pretty informed on what goes on with the Mariners and around the Mariners the trade deadline I find to be the most difficult because a lot of times sometimes I find out sometimes we don't

[01:15:18] it's hard to know exactly what teams are asking for and exactly who is available because some of the names we see out in the world aren't actually available and we just we never find that out what will the let's just Luis Robert as an example

[01:15:36] I think about this and I think it's helpful to sometimes look at this from the other teams perspective like if you're the White Sox and you're trading Robert this is your biggest trade piece you are kicking off your rebuild you've got to nail this

[01:15:54] and you are going to ask for the mode and you're not in a position where you have to trade him because he's under contract for what essentially three more years so from that perspective like what are you willing to give up for a guy like that

[01:16:12] and just about every guy in the market that we're talking about like there's no 100% certainty with every guy we're talking about right like all the names you see out there there's not a lot of certainty and there's not a lot of guys especially when every team

[01:16:32] in the National League is actually in the wildcard race and I mean that literally outside of the Marlins and Rockies like every team is in the mix and if it stays like this what is the deadline going to look like like how many guys will even be available

[01:16:46] in terms of that that's what I'm most concerned about from a buyer's perspective who are we going to who are we talking about here we look at the Marlins and Rockies and teams that are angels teams that are like out of it and sure there are some players

[01:17:02] that will help but there's fewer players than teams that need help that's the concern because I do think you can't sell out your future you can be aggressive but you can't you can't a good conscious give away everyone you have because you do have

[01:17:22] to think about the future as well yeah and like so on that note right there's essentially five teams right now that you know will be sellers at the deadline and two of them do happen to be in your own division and like so here's

[01:17:38] an example we've thrown out Brent Rooker a decent amount just because like to the point of what you talked about about the people we see out in the world that we think could be available and also to your point there's no player on this market

[01:17:52] but just in terms of the tower, you play the outfield you know right handed bat probably going to be an all star for the second consecutive year but one do the Mariners put up with the strikeouts number two would the A's trade them

[01:18:08] in their own division like I heard Ryan Divas just a few days ago talking about how a couple years ago the Mariners really wanted Matt Chapman they offered a decent package for him but the A's said we don't want to trade him to Seattle

[01:18:18] so like to your point yeah it's going to be a tough market to navigate I think if you're the Mariners or a lot of teams in this deadline yeah, Indivision trades are tricky like you don't see that a lot at the deadline and you can

[01:18:34] there's probably a couple guys on the Angels that are intriguing but is are we going to see Indivision trades because if you're trading a guy away especially a guy that's going to be in a contract you know and everything else is even

[01:18:48] like you're not going to face them 13 times a year whatever in your own division so I think that's I think that's part of it yeah, so I am I'm super fascinated to see how this plays out and the other question I think people are dying to know about

[01:19:04] this trade deadline is this the deadline the Mariners finally go away from the we need years of control back we need long-term pieces because now unlike any deadline that Gary you've seen more than we have but Lau and I in our remembrance of life

[01:19:24] have not seen a deadline with the Mariners sitting in first place like this is this finally the time if we're talking about guys who are more likely to be available rentals are always more likely to be available than guys with three years of control is there enough

[01:19:42] pliability in the philosophy of how the Mariners operate to go get a rental this year a pita lot like like the two popular ones pita Lonzo Christian Walker if they're available two teams that are in the wildcard race right now

[01:19:56] Paul Seawald's name gets thrown back out there again a rental reliever like is this the year that that could be a possibility I think so and part of it it gets back to a couple guys just listed like who is actually going to be available because you thought

[01:20:14] you thought for sure that Alonzo would be available and then Grimmis threw out a first pitch and now the Mets can't lose a game so now they've vaulted themselves into this thing so and Arizona which it looked like for a while was going to fall out of this

[01:20:28] thing and now they're hanging around because everyone's hanging around so to me it comes down to that like who is going to be available because I think they will and if cost of course I mean it always comes back to cost like what are they going to cost

[01:20:42] the Mariners just saw one of the decent arms that I'm intrigued by tenor Scott who's along the lines of what you're talking about he's a guy that's up after the end of this year he would be a straight rental so he's

[01:20:56] along the lines of who you're talking about who I think will be available at the deadline but yeah I think they'd be willing to do anything to help this team where they want to get I do think control is what they would love control

[01:21:14] I mean who would right if you could get a guy and also have him for two or three more years that would be phenomenal but I don't think they shy away from rental for the right price do you think Grimace is available I mean he's obviously

[01:21:28] he can obviously pitch we know that I mean they should see I mean the Mets may get maybe get a package deal Alonzo and Grimace what goes back in return that's the great question you know the Grimace thing I think is so funny

[01:21:50] and it's the kind of thing that I love about baseball because the everyday nature of baseball just lends itself to stupid stories like this that I absolutely love just Grimace throws out a first pitch and the Mets go on a winning streak so

[01:22:04] thus it was Grimace that made it happen I just love it last thing for me Gary as we're sitting and watching the amazingness of Logan Gilbert this year he's got to be a favorite to start the All-Star game at this point like dead serious

[01:22:20] this guy has a pretty good chance right now to start in Dallas in a month from now right yeah I mean well let's take a step back for a second I think he is certainly two things are happening right now his June has been

[01:22:36] utterly ridiculous and I think he's certainly for pitcher Lamont than June which is always cool I think when a guy gets an award like that for an entire month so I think he is the front runner right now for that and I think he has squarely

[01:22:50] pitched himself onto the All-Star team which is great because he's been close a couple of times I think he's deserving and I feel like with the big three I feel like he's the one that can sometimes get overlooked especially from a national perspective

[01:23:10] I don't think we, the people that watch him every time out take him for granted and aren't aware of how good he is because we get to see him every five days we know how great he is but I think he doesn't have that same reputation nationally

[01:23:24] I think an All-Star bid would certainly change that and I think he is squarely in that I think the tough part about starting the All-Star game is there are a lot of great seasons being had in the American League I think Heel was probably the front

[01:23:40] runner until he got blown up recently so maybe it's a little bit more up in the air right now but Gilbert is certainly in that conversation and man, I love, I would love for him to make it because watching how he has transformed himself

[01:23:56] has been such a joy because he came up as a fastball thrower that's who he was and the thing is like if he just would have been that guy he probably would continue to have success and have a pretty good career and be effective but he wanted more

[01:24:16] and so every off season he changed his arsenal and he's adapted and he's worked and he has completely changed himself as a pitcher there have been multiple times this year where we have seen him have a start where he could not have had when he first came up

[01:24:36] because his arsenal is different and his slider is different and the splitter and everything else that he has going on and I just I love seeing a guy get rewarded for that work because he has put the work in he has transformed himself

[01:24:50] into one of the best pitchers in baseball and I do think he will get rewarded as an all star and I think it would be awesome to see him start the ball game but at least make it I think that would be phenomenal it's so deserved

[01:25:04] I almost call him a mad scientist in that way we talked about this a few weeks ago that he is such a tinker and he is always looking for things to add to his arsenal like I know he has already got the nickname of Walter

[01:25:16] but if he ever needed a secondary nickname that he is kind of a mad scientist when he approaches pitching and it works great for him yeah he's a real pitching nerd he dives into everything, he has a lot of conversations with the opposition

[01:25:30] great pitchers from the other side just asking like how they go about it, how they throw he's a sponge man he's always taken it in I feel like the Mariners and Logan Gilbert are such a great marriage with everything the Mariners do how effective they are

[01:25:48] at turning dials on pitchers I just feel like it's such a great match and it's a great match for the Mariners it's a great match for Logan he was I think he was fortunate in a lot of ways to be drafted by the Mariners

[01:26:00] it's just worked out perfectly for both sides and we're seeing it he's getting better and better and the question I always ask now when you watch it play out like what is this ceiling like what are we talking about with Logan Gilbert here where does this go

[01:26:20] like Sayang competition top five, top three a Sayang award where does this go I think it's super cool to think about because I don't know I don't think we can put a limit on where he can go given what we've seen and how he's transformed himself

[01:26:40] well Gary this has been fantastic we always appreciate you taking some time to join us hope you have a couple good last days on the food tour down there in Florida before we see you back here at the ballpark this weekend and throughout next week

[01:26:52] thanks so much for taking some time to join us anytime it'll be great to see you back at the park I know I speak for all of us and saying we can't wait to get back home well it's always great to catch up with Gary

[01:27:08] hopefully you guys took some things away from that conversation about the trade deadline about the Mariners home road numbers this year and a few other things as well we love having Gary on, really smart dude appreciate all his time and with that I'll just about wrap up

[01:27:22] this edition of the Marine Liar podcast you guys know the drill, if you want to listen to the full form podcast you can do so wherever you get your audio pod make sure to download, make sure to leave a five star

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[01:27:44] TJ, I'm Lyle, as always we thank you guys for tuning in talk to you soon