Episode 144: Lance Brozdowski (Pitching Analyst), And Is A Roster Overhaul Coming At The Trade Deadline?

[00:00:00] Welcome to Episode 144 of the Marine Layer Podcast. We welcome on Lance Brozdowski. Lau had a great conversation with him chatting about Mariners pitching, the pros and cons of tinkering, and getting into baseball media. We also have our two Mariners storylines. Logan Gilbert is named an All-Star and

[00:00:18] the Mariners are due for a roster overhaul at the Trade Deadline. Here's your guys reminder stay on top of all of our stuff make sure you're downloading our episodes leave us a five-star review leave

[00:00:27] a written review that's all in the audio platforms if you're watching YouTube you see the subscribe button click it leave a like Leave a comment and then check us out on social media Instagram tick tock Twitter YouTube shorts at Marine Layer pod Let's get it rolling

[00:00:42] And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer podcast part of the just baseball podcast network Recording here on Monday evening July 8th What a weekend Lyle Where do we want to start do we want to start with the good?

[00:01:11] Do we want to start with what was maybe the worst loss of the year on Sunday? Well, where do we want to start well people say I think this weekend said that we were too negative so let's start positive Did you have fun on the radio? I

[00:01:26] Did I did I thought we I thought it was a blast. I hope we have the chance to do it again here at some point How about you no I had I had a lot of fun? I'm glad we got to To mix everything in we did

[00:01:38] You know, we essentially did a merger of Brock and Salk show and ours and I thought it meshed great And it messed fantastically And you know, you know, you always go in the wondering first time how it will go how it will sound

[00:01:53] What what the flow of the show is gonna be like are we gonna be able to To be ourselves when we have to get in and out of breaks and the segments are shorter And we have to be to the point a little bit more

[00:02:04] But I mean, I thought it was good and if you haven't listened to it yet There are a couple of ways you can catch our show from last Friday's Brock and Salk on July 5th It's on their podcast page Apple Spotify. You can go find it there

[00:02:18] But they also save it on YouTube if you want to go back and watch the whole thing It's under the under their live category on their YouTube page. You can go back and watch it then

[00:02:27] So if in case you missed it you can go watch it that way But I mean, I really thought it couldn't have gone any better like really I Love the fact that we're just sitting right next to each other again

[00:02:41] That's the only time we have done a show where we're in person. There's no lag with Wi-Fi There's no waiting for each other to finish a sentence You know when somebody's gonna stop talking you can just cut right to the next sentence

[00:02:51] It's great. Not that not that the setup we have right now doesn't work It does like we have we have high quality mics We have a recording system and what we use is Riverside

[00:03:00] That's about as good as you can get for online podcasting, but it's not the same as being in person and it's just Like obviously anybody can create chemistry and and it gets easier and easier over time when you're

[00:03:14] Online and remote podcasting but so much easier when you're in person and yeah to your point I thought we mixed everything in well I thought we hit all the points we wanted to hit and it was cool to get a lot of feedback from people whose opinions

[00:03:25] We really care about and said we really enjoyed this so Let me go back to what I said when we started this I hope at some point we have the chance to do it again because it was really fun

[00:03:34] Yeah, I hope so too. There was a suggestion on Monday's Brock and Salk that we should host every Friday Yes, somebody said Salk just gets to sleep in on Friday So play golf he doesn't have to worry about getting up and we just host well and

[00:03:48] Salk to his point if you listen on Brock and talk he said that sounds great I'd love to get out and play golf on Fridays That'd be great. And I think we're sitting there saying that would also be great now. We both signed right now Right now well

[00:04:01] Well, we'd have to get up at what three o'clock in the morning once a week or four in the morning once a week Which that might be a little tough, but we'd have but eventually you'd adjust You know how you solve that issue

[00:04:12] Not coffee five-hour energies. Oh well that works too. So it's all we're all ingesting in the same drugs. It's fine Works out Well, I'm not gonna be drinking Starbucks. You know that you don't have to the lucky thing about living in the Seattle area is you have

[00:04:29] Plenty of artisan coffee to drink plenty You have your your choice of some great options, but anyways I'd be down for that. I'd be down. I can wake up. I could see the sunrise once a week I think I'd be okay. I

[00:04:44] Will say that was nice when we drove to the studio Friday Now it is the summertime when you have long days, but it's like sunny with the fog You're driving roads are empty because nobody's up yet, especially the day after the 4th of July

[00:04:58] I'm just sitting there thinking man It's nice out. It's kind of a nice drive now in the winter would be a different story But I'm not usually up at 5 a.m. To see what it looks like at 5 a.m. So yeah

[00:05:10] Here's my last thing on us hosting on Friday We got pushed back on some of our things on some of her opinion Which is which is fine when Launa are out here screaming how much batting average sucks

[00:05:22] I know a lot of people still like batting average. That's fine So we expect to get some pushback for that. That's okay. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion but There was not one Abraham Toro truth. They're out there that I saw

[00:05:38] That pushback when I sit on ranked that a Toro shouldn't be allowed. I didn't hear any pushback Which I'm actually very pleased That it turned out that way. I feel like there's more like-minded people out there than you might think

[00:05:54] Must mean a lot of Mariners fans are in your mind Certified ball knowers because they didn't push back about that Brock Brock You were a certified ball knower because as we've talked about he shares a similar vision to you in this in this category

[00:06:07] Right like he talks about it. He used to talk about it. Yep so and We had a lot of people Not only giving suggestions for hikes After the acquisition after the acquisition of Kyle Tucker, which will be happening

[00:06:23] But also how many people were in support of it now? We got a couple saying this is delusional Which is no different than the thousand comments we've gotten on social media about it But we had a lot of people liking the idea and I got to say

[00:06:36] Shout out the Mariners fans. You guys know ball. How many comments is that Instagram real up to now? No, it's getting checked thousand Yeah, getting close to a thousand and and it's coming back up to people are people are refinding it

[00:06:51] Yeah, probably because the Astros are now two back and they're seeing this take about how the Astros are gonna fall out of the AL West well and that's just Instagram on tiktok

[00:06:59] It's got a bunch of comments too and on YouTube short. So yeah all encompassing. It's probably I don't know if it's quite 2,000 comments, but it's probably like 1,500 comments and I actually have you encompass every time we brought them up

[00:07:10] It might be closer to thousand. Yeah in a two month review though. That's pretty supreme work there big Lyle That's you came your idea you text me dog. I have an idea. I need to bring it to light

[00:07:22] I'm like dude just make make a tiktok of it and well I gotta say that's close to being on our Mount Rushmore of short form. So good job Well, we'll take it. We'll take it, but yeah that part of the weekend was good

[00:07:38] The baseball part of the weekend. Maybe maybe not as much. I mean Sunday's loss was unfathomable It was worse to watch than listen. I assume I was driving back at this point I could hear the disappointment in Rick Reyes and Dave Sims's voices

[00:07:55] But I don't know if it would articulate as much as physically watching the Mariners Strand the amount of runners they did in the seventh eighth ninth and 10 things So like maybe the baseball gods really do just hate the Mariners Lyle

[00:08:13] Maybe the baseball gods saw a soundly constructed roster in the offseason and said you know what? I think everybody is gonna suck this season. Luke Rayleigh You hit a ball that could be a walk-off It could it should be a walk-off hit it in the gap

[00:08:30] Cal Raleigh's off and running He'll score easily. Nope Ball goes over the wall Jorge Polanco has been a very good player for his entire career Steps to the plate in 2024. Oh He's watched Can't play ball anymore not on the Mariners at least

[00:08:51] Might just be a case of a valile You know wherever polo goes next he's gonna turn it right around. You know that right? He's gonna be a Dodger for the final two months of the season. He's gonna put up a 130 w RC plus 15

[00:09:06] Strikeout rate him and Teosca Hernandez are going to be co nlcs mvps Mm-hmm. Yeah, and the Dodgers actually need middle infield help right now. Mookie's out. They haven't had much second base production

[00:09:19] God I could see that happening so easily if the Mariners really cut ties and he turned into a great defender again too Sure So joe doil tweeted this on sunday and and

[00:09:30] All encompassing with how many runners the Mariners stranded he said from the seventh inning on the Mariners had 14 played appearances With runners in scoring position And put up zero runs from the seventh inning on they had 14 played appearances with a runner in scoring position or multiple

[00:09:48] Zero runs produced from it zero zero Unreal It's not even a case of the offense sucking to its maximum capacity because the offense sucking to its maximum capacity Would mean they just don't have any runners period

[00:10:04] And they just do what they did against the Orioles not reach base at all and not score any runs instead it was worse getting What did they end up getting they got four innings against the blue jays bullpen, which is one of the five worst in baseball

[00:10:20] and couldn't score And then ryan stanek comes in after george kirby and gives up a game tying three run home run to george springer Who's been not good this year? And he still gives it up And the mariners lose a series at home that they desperately need

[00:10:40] To a last place team last place blue jays are going to be selling in three weeks boba shek could get traded Springer's not getting traded gosman could get traded Danny jansen could get traded hopefully to seattle

[00:10:56] There's a lot of guys on that roster that are going to be gone And that's a team that just came in and beat you in a game you needed You're lucky the astros lost again. So you're still only still have a two game lead

[00:11:08] But the point still stands if if thursday night was rock bottom or sorry wednesday night against the orioles was rock bottom We're resetting the rock bottom to today On monday when we have to sit here and think about it and it's 102 degrees

[00:11:22] Outside here in core ballast and my room is sitting at about 85 degrees right now So yeah, lile when the team is playing like this and my brain is baking It's rock bottom You know it could get reset again here right now. We're recording on monday

[00:11:41] If the mariners lose to the pod rates on tuesday with all star logan gilbert on the mound Who is in the al psi young running at this point?

[00:11:50] Facing off with adam major a dude who has an e r a starting with seven and a whip of one eight If the mariners lose on tuesday to the pod rays

[00:12:01] Rock bottom has been reset again. They cannot lose that game even more than all three of the blue jays games. They just had No, you can't lose that game. I know the pod rays are a lot better than the blue jays. I don't care

[00:12:13] You're facing that guy and you got logan gilbert going you need to turn this thing around before the break You better win that game tuesday And more importantly after that pod rays series like they got to play the two games against the pod rays

[00:12:25] Regardless of what the matchup is and you hope they win on tuesday But then you were playing an unserious franchise for four games going into the break unserious even splitting would piss people off

[00:12:38] And splitting a series on the road a four game series is normally not the end of the world But we're sitting here at six straight series losses And you are one more bad week from watching your first place leading your playoff spot evaporate into thin air

[00:12:52] And who knows if it comes back Because I don't know if it's coming back with this roster not with the way these guys hit And we'll talk about this in our second storyline But the way that these guys hit

[00:13:05] Doesn't even matter if they get on made it to get on base like they did this weekend against the blue jays It simply hasn't So it might not come back And then The off season's gonna suck again

[00:13:18] So let's do this we started with positive talking about the weekend hosting brock and salk Then we got the negative with the weekend of baseball Our storylines are going to go positive than negative

[00:13:28] So let's let's get to a positive here. Is that all right? Can we do a positive storyline? Yeah, let's do that Logan govarton all-star First time congratulations, Logan. He is the only mariners all-star

[00:13:39] I think moonyos is going to get in as an injury or start replacement. I hope Isn't it strange only four relievers? I thought there would be at least five if they had five I think moonyos would be in the all-star game

[00:13:52] But unfortunately, he's not anyways the guy who made the all-star game logan govert Certainly deserve to make it second in the american league in inning seventh in eRA Top ten and fit

[00:14:04] He's an all-star. He's the mariners best pitcher on one of the best pitching staves in baseball. Therefore He gets the nod fantastic for him. He's joining a great group of guys He said he wants to pitch in the game

[00:14:16] Unfortunately, he's lined up to pitch on sunday before the break So it's unlikely Yeah, we'll see we'll see what happens with with him actually pitching in the game We'll see if the mariners reshuffle their rotation at all

[00:14:32] I they may not especially because they don't have any off days after Monday But if logan doesn't pitch in the all-star game, he doesn't pitch in the all-star game He still gets to go. He still gets to be a part of it all the festivities

[00:14:43] He gets announced he'll be in the dugout for the whole thing everything and he is absolutely deserving We can get to moonyos here a little bit more in a second because I I do have something to say about it

[00:14:52] But again the story line's about logan. Let's let's start with a positive about logan He could not deserve it more. He's third in baseball and whip. He's 12th in the era He's six and batting average against he doesn't walk guys. His slider has been awesome

[00:15:07] He makes every turn in the rotation and he has been the stopper For the mariners this year. He has been the best arm He has been the ace and he is absolutely deserving of going to dalis and I could not

[00:15:19] I could not be more hyped for him to go because we've seen some other guys get their nods, right? Like Kirby's been castillo's been We've seen some other guys go in the past Logan had not made an all-star game yet

[00:15:30] And not only is he a tireless worker who wants to be great and Loves being a mariner as as you know as evidently as we all see it He's such a good dude too. Like he's impossible

[00:15:44] Not to root for so to see him get the nod to the all-star game and also seeing his reaction to it You can't help but feel great for him

[00:15:51] And the tireless worker thing I think just hits the nail on the head and you get to see it when you When you have some of the access like you and I do and we get get to the ballpark early and even on a non-start day

[00:16:04] Logan's out on the field four hours before the game starts doing mental skills stuff Just to just to keep himself right and ready and good to go even on a day where he legitimately has nothing to do Stretch is a little bit Light toss that's it

[00:16:19] But he's still putting in every ounce of work That is needed and if he didn't have the The combination of that tireless work effort and a thought process of how to improve himself

[00:16:32] I don't know if he makes an all-star team if the rookie version the rookie repertoire. I'll say of Logan Gilbert Didn't change all that much. Maybe he adds like a sinker or something, but that's it He tries and keeps that

[00:16:45] He would never have gotten to the point. He's at right now all of his best pitches that he throws right now Didn't he didn't have his rookie He had to add all of those and make those pitches better to get him to where he is

[00:16:58] Right now we're on top of all the great stuff. He has it's the command of the strike zone It's not walking guys. It's Again now having a lot of ground balls too. It's helpful. It's it's fantastic for Logan

[00:17:10] And he's gonna have a blast in texas even even if he can't pitch even though he's gonna tell scott service I'm good to go. Don't worry about me 15 pitches two days after a start. That's fine Yeah, that's interesting

[00:17:25] If he essentially uses that as the rowing of bullpen so to speak could it work or no That would be a saturday start would work I think Okay, so not so one of the other guys we would mention that could be an all-star That would be

[00:17:44] The case you would you would play for him For that twerk out. George Kirby pitches on saturday That would be his bullpen day on tuesday Yeah, that makes sense So that could be And yeah, we'll see if it happens there there should be some additions late

[00:18:00] but as we wrap up on logan here and and get to the moon yo as part of this conversation It was pretty cool to see not just the reaction the clubhouse

[00:18:09] Like you instantly saw the big smile on logan's face when the mariners put out that video of him getting announced To this just goes back to logan being the awesome dude

[00:18:17] Like one of the first things he says when everybody's going speech speech they want to hear him talk He says Like moony you had an unbelievable first half not only do I think you should be at it

[00:18:26] I think you will be at it like that was one of the first things he thought about like Not every guy would do that like it just speaks to the the awesome dude

[00:18:33] Logan is on top of the incredible arm that he is so to see that to see the phone call with his parents It was all really cool. It was also very on bread for logan. How long was his speech? It wasn't very long No

[00:18:46] Yeah, I don't know like like logan's He's definitely like, you know, he's not He's not josh rojas, right? He's not sauce. He's not the you know, he's not the The number one like outgoing personality on the team, but he's

[00:19:02] I wouldn't say he is the most reserved guy on the team either like he is more on the quiet side, but You know, he's a smart dude. He'll talk I like like I I don't know. I don't I don't think it was that crazy to see him

[00:19:14] Do what he did did it was it no it wasn't I thought it was on brand to his personality So that thought just like everything else So you're saying it was concise well thought out but

[00:19:28] You know a very nice speech on brand to logan gilbert, you know a plus human being but also not he's not going to stand there and do a scott service Speech for 15 minutes Sure. Oh and that was a funny thing that logan said too when

[00:19:43] When the media talked to him after he He got the announcement which was You know scott was kind of dragging it out like like he's talking about the first half

[00:19:51] He says we have one all-star and i'm sitting there kind of itching and I want to know who it is Like which which I would be in the same boat you would probably be in the same boat

[00:19:58] If you thought you had a chance to be in an all-star game and it was getting dragged out in the meeting like I'd be I don't know. I'd be all fidgety toes tapping like come on like let's hear the name

[00:20:08] So I don't blame logan for that but then when you saw it was him You saw the reaction on his face and that was pretty cool Well deserving and even if he does get to pitch he's going to crush it

[00:20:18] He's the perfect pitcher for the all-star game throw a couple pitches at 100 miles an hour break someone's ankles with a splitter and Go take a seat on the bench and watch everything else I'm down

[00:20:28] We'll see you there logan which by the way just one more reminder for anybody listening We will be in dallas for all-star week. So if any of you happen to be there Let us know we'll be doing a bunch of stuff come meet up with us

[00:20:39] Happy to talk to any mariner's fans that are out there So do some content build a build a ramp mount rushmore Rank your top five some things we're in Oh, we're oh, I don't care that the mariners only currently have a two game lead

[00:20:52] We're fine an astros fans at all-star week because a bunch of them are obviously going to be there And and we're telling them that kyle tuckers going to be a mariner. So So let's talk about the two let's talk about

[00:21:05] The guys who could make it and probably should have made it Let's start with the obvious candidate of andres muñoz He should be in over clay holmes They've pitched the same amount this year

[00:21:16] And andres muñoz has been a better reliever than clay holmes has and yet clay holmes made it And the yankees don't need a token all-star They don't they have one soto and erin judge You don't have to put clay holmes in So here we go

[00:21:33] Andres muñoz versus clay holmes era muñoz is at 150 holmes is at three whip muñoz is at one holmes is at 13 x era muñoz is at 253 holmes is at 297 f4

[00:21:47] This is interesting holmes has them by point one o nine versus o eight but b war Andres muñoz has almost a full win more than clay holmes strikeouts muñoz has the higher the higher total k per nine

[00:22:00] Muñoz is at nearly 11 holmes is at 93 and saves holmes has a tiny bit more or five more Because he is on a better team And often gets more save opportunities I don't know how you read down that list of all those categories and say

[00:22:15] Clay holmes is the all-star other than East coast bias and yankees bias is 100 000 percent a real thing clay holmes is not a better reliever than andres muñoz Sorry, there's yankee fans listening to this objectively. He has not been better

[00:22:30] Saves helped too unfortunately, but like I said saves Corlate with more winning yankees won more games. No not recently They've actually been worse than the mariters have been somehow but clay holmes managed to stack up some saves Yeah, it's kind of stupid

[00:22:45] Mooney should be there and I think he will be because some of these guys are going to need replacements and mooney has to be Within the first two to get added on list if not the next one

[00:22:55] To be added to this all-star game roster. So I think he'll be there I think he will be in dallas next week. He absolutely deserves it and especially because mooney Is arguably the most valuable reliever In baseball because the mariner's bullpen would legitimately fall apart without him

[00:23:12] It would he holds this bullpen together at the seams the only guy you can really Hand the ball to And feel 100 confident. He's getting all three outs without giving up anything

[00:23:26] How many other bullpens have somebody like that mason miller, but the re but the a's aren't a competitive team so yeah, he holds the a's bullpen together, but They're not contending for a playoff spot Nope Which is why this is even more shocking. It's a first place team

[00:23:43] Shouldn't a first place team get more than one at least the pitching side. I'm not I'm not advocating for any of the hitters To make the all-star game for good reason. They don't deserve to make the all-star game with these pitchers They absolutely do Mm-hmm Yeah, they do

[00:24:00] So maybe curbie will get in he is a case I don't know if it's as strong as mooney osa's or logan gilberts Whoever who evidently got in but there's a case he has a good start saturday and decisions haven't been made yet Maybe it gets even stronger

[00:24:14] He's top five in or top six in some pretty important ones His e-ra has been ballooned by a couple of bad starts, but some other peripherals He's thrown the sixth most innings fifth and fifth second and walk rate fifth and walks and hits burning's pitch

[00:24:30] Fifth and fangraphs wins above replacement you know it Feels like an all-star For curbie Among the starters. He might be among the top three replacement starters That could get added on hey, you could get

[00:24:47] They could add moonyos for someone else and then when logan won't pitch they add george for logan That'll make sense Because curbie could pitch in that game

[00:24:58] Right and it would make sense for them to say okay if a mariner if the mariner we selected can't pitch and logan gilbert Let's add another mariner who's very close to deserving

[00:25:07] To replace them then they'll both be there. It's just the curbie'll pitch logan'll just watch from the dugout But they both get the recognition right and then it'll be two straight all-star games for george. Which would be exciting That'd be great

[00:25:18] I think both of my pretty good cases. I think moonyos a little bit more but When I look at george curbie and I look at what he's done in the first half That looks like an all-star Yeah, yeah, it does

[00:25:33] So you would have to think when the replacements come he's probably on a short list too Probably not as high up as moonyos, but not far behind. Nope Okay, we're gonna get to our second storyline here in just a second before that

[00:25:46] Let's tell you about our friends at pegaches pub 85. That's over in kirkland You're not going if you're not going to dallas for all-star week You want to get together and watch potentially logan gilbert or george curbie or andres moonyos pitch during all-star week

[00:25:58] Head over there you can hang out with your friends have some great food some great drinks And there's more than 20 tvs in that place. So whatever sporting events you want to watch They'll have it if you go during happy hour two drink specials

[00:26:10] Three and four dollars. That's two to six p.m. Monday through friday happy hour three and four dollar drinks all of that over at pegaches pub 85 in kirkland Well second storyline as we've said we've gone positive then negative and positive Now we're gonna have to go to negative

[00:26:28] How do I want to start this storyline? I'll start it with this I think the offense is getting overhauled at the deadline. I do Now because we have talked about that what have we said We've said and I quote this iteration of the offense cannot continue

[00:26:44] Well, it has continued and I think time's running out So I think this offense is going to get overhauled now. Let me explain what I mean by that When we say overhaul

[00:26:54] I am not saying they're going to go out and trade for louise robert to play the outfield and then vladdy to play first base and then Whoever else right?

[00:27:02] That's not going to be what the deadline looks like. They're not going to go acquire four superstar bats and deplete their system but I do think you may see three or so new bats come into town if not more

[00:27:16] It'll just be in the form of what I'd call soft buying What do you think about that? We've been sitting around and waiting for the offense to turn around for a while we especially this time in july and late june

[00:27:33] And especially after the mariners had gotten to a 10-game lead they'd beaten texas the offense had looked fine at that point Especially the first game in cleveland offense looked fine Now on that road trip it was bumpy and then once they've returned home

[00:27:48] That's when it's really cratered and gotten worse There's been nothing That has given us a sign that the offense is turning around. There's no metric. There's no stats. There's no consistencies There's no Making sure to hit with every runner in scoring position. It's been none of that so

[00:28:07] At some point you can't just Flip you can't just sit around and wait for it to turn around When you and I talked about this on brockensalc on friday, we floated the idea of

[00:28:22] What if you don't what if you think the only way this thing turns itself around that the team period is if the current guys on the offense Turn it around themselves. There's not enough outside additions to be made To turn this

[00:28:37] And you and I both agreed and said no that's not the case but a way to fix that is You don't go with the idea that you're going to trade for one star You go with the idea that you're just going to go get slightly above league average

[00:28:52] Hitters specifically at multiple positions that are currently suffering and well below league average And see the balloon effect that has on your offense And you know what I think I think that's a really good idea because there are a lot of options out there That are cheap

[00:29:08] They're not going to cost you a lot of money and the impact to be made on this team is immense They don't need to be good for the next 10 years. They don't need to be good for the next five years

[00:29:17] They don't even need to be good for the next calendar year What they need to be good for is two months That's all you ask for two good months out of a handful of players

[00:29:27] You can add to your roster and see what the combination of that what that does with your pitching staff And some good options out there Because you owe it to your pitching staff to give them a chance

[00:29:41] They have carried you the first half of the season and if you miss the playoffs with this rotation That is a total disservice and that's going to be a really bad look If you have that rotation and they don't even get a chance to pitch in october

[00:29:54] So what does that look like if you need to give them an offense that is good enough To get into the dance because what have we said the Mariners don't have to be a top five offense

[00:30:02] They just have to be league average and i'm sure some of you are sitting here saying the idea of soft buying Which means getting a few slightly above league average bats to come in and produce is not inspiring

[00:30:14] Well, maybe it isn't to you. Maybe it's not going and getting gladi Maybe it's not going and getting loise robert doesn't mean it can't work either The braves in 2021 lost ronald acuña for the year he tore his acl. It was devastating injury

[00:30:27] Braves won the world series that year. They went out and got jack peterson They got jorges soler. They got adam duval. They got eddie risario all at the deadline All of those guys are slightly above average players

[00:30:39] Who helped them win a world series? The mariners can do that They really can because going out and having that approach Can ultimately get you guys that are going to help the offense without giving up any

[00:30:53] Of your blue chip prospects. You do not have to give up colt emerson lasaro montez felonine celestine Whoever you want to list off You can do this thing and still compete without giving those guys up

[00:31:05] And I know we're going to get into some names here in a second But I just want people to think about that before you before you get so mad at the idea of they're not going to go Make one huge trade for one huge bat Think about

[00:31:17] What this approach can do because it can work and i'll end it with this If you don't think a slightly above league average bat is inspiring or would do much Here's some perspective Mitch hannagher has an 83 w rc plus right now and almost a negative one war

[00:31:33] If you bring in a bat that's a 105 w rc plus guy That's almost a 20 upgrade from what you're getting in right field for mitch hannagher right now You're telling me a 20 upgrade doesn't help this offense. It does

[00:31:46] 100 it does they're in first place with mitch hannagher doing what he's doing right now Now imagine if you got a 20 bump at that position I'll leave it at that

[00:31:55] Let's roll through the positions they can't upgrade and should upgrade in this soft buying strategy. Here's what I wrote out right field second base first base Backup catcher and a bench bat. I think those are all things you can soft buy and get better at

[00:32:15] So we've talked about the backup catcher a little bit and I agree That can be an option But what I wrote out is basically second base right field first base and I called it one additional outfielder because If you go get one additional outfielder in that scenario

[00:32:30] canzone would probably play a little bit less and it would be hulio rayleigh and whoever else you acquire in addition to The second like the it would be hulio rayleigh and the two outfield bats you acquire So in that case maybe can zones further down on the bench

[00:32:46] The mariners think he could benefit from some time into coma. He could be into coma But there are options here and there's a decent amount of outfield options that could help so So who's safe on the roster back? Yeah

[00:32:58] What's that? So who's safe on the roster in this scenario that is not replaceable Okay So jp hulio cal those those three are locks Mitch garver is not going anywhere

[00:33:12] So he's staying and again he like he had the big home run on sunday even though they lost he had a good june There are things about mitch garver's game that while he is not hitting sliders, especially sliders lone away well

[00:33:23] That he is turning the corner at least to some extent. So I'd say he's safe. That's four rayleigh safe That's five and because of how good rojas has played in the field paired with he's still about a 105 ish

[00:33:36] W rc plus guy he's safe too. So I'd say those six and demo two I assume as the utility guy Right. Yeah, I would say all those guys are safe and yeah, and that so that leaves who's not safe and whose position on the roster could be

[00:33:54] Supplemented by outside addition jorhei palanco mitch hanager domkan zone victor robles ty france and ryan bliss Right And I would yeah, I would agree. I'd say all those guys Like yeah, could be replaced could be could be You know bypass by guys from outside d orc. So

[00:34:19] Where do we want to start with this? Do we want to start at outfield second base first base? What do you think since I I think I'm the only one

[00:34:25] To wrote down catchers can I run through my catchers really quick just back up catcher options that I think would be good Because I've I know this idea to you before Yeah You have catcher one Well, yeah, I know one guy you're gonna say danny jansen

[00:34:42] Buy buy buy buy buy So danny jansen had a really good first two months He had to get this 22 w rc plus in june And now is that negative 21 in july

[00:34:55] Now you buy this bait hoping he turns it around but he's a renal. He's been very good in the past And As a backup catcher, I think he would be very good joey bart

[00:35:09] Castaway former top prospect. He's got a 126 w rc plus right now. You control him for a while I don't know how sustainable his success is But even if you don't believe in joey bart long term you have your two long term catchers

[00:35:22] If you don't like him trade him in the off season But right now he hits 126 w rc plus And a lice ds with the rockies has never hit really in his career, but this year has a 105 w rc plus

[00:35:33] So, you know what even if his overall offensive game is not sustainable I'm in to let him try and be a 105 w rc plus player for two months And then worry about whatever else later, but he's also a rental so he's not going to cost you really anything

[00:35:48] Like you could acquire Two of these guys for someone that either is not in your top 30 or barely in your top 30 prospects joey bart I don't know if he costs much more because he's been so much more of a project

[00:36:01] But since he's got so much more control it might take it just a tiny bit more really not that much Okay, I could buy into all those. I think we've talked about jansen a lot

[00:36:12] I think it's a guy that makes a ton of sense. We talked about him on brock and talk for a little bit on friday Sure Backup catcher is just not where I am prioritizing my focus

[00:36:21] I think if you find the time and the availability to go get a backup catcher great But there are so many other glaring issues that I think have to be addressed first But it could also just be something as much as another hitter off the bench

[00:36:36] Which they don't have Okay, but you need a Viable second baseman and a dependable right fielder first and maybe a first baseman You've got a lot of stuff to double the backup catcher Elias Diaz and Danny Jansen will not cost you enough to

[00:36:52] To say we need to get something else out of the way first Okay, but I do think they need to check other boxes first before they prioritize a backup catcher Probably yes, but Let's do all the above. I think it would all help. Okay

[00:37:09] All right, let's just let's just go around the diamond first base in terms of the positions we think could be replaced There's not a whole lot out there Yandy Diaz is somebody I threw out because

[00:37:20] Mariners were linked to him in the off season. He's got a 719 ops right now 110 w RC plus He strikes out less than 15 percent of the time talk about a breath of fresh air That would be now yonny Diaz did not get off to a good start. However

[00:37:34] After about april 122 w RC plus in may 134 in june 132 so far here in july It's pretty good The only thing with him is he has one and a half years left on his deal and a team option for 2026 So he may cost a little bit more

[00:37:50] He's on the older side You would hope that would drive his price down and you're hope you're buying into what he did each of the last Two seasons rather than what he started at this year

[00:38:01] But he is also on the older side. So you can be wary. You're allowed to be wary the mariners in the recent years have not had a sterling track yet record of acquiring and playing 30 plus year olds

[00:38:13] Hasn't really turned out as well, but that was one of the options I wrote down as well There's the obvious ones too because pete lanzo and christian walker While not a total soft buy their rentals. They are still rentals. So they're not they're

[00:38:26] Significantly easier acquired to acquire than putting together a trade package For a louis robert jr. So they remain options even in this soft buy I think but there's other options too We've talked about lamont wade

[00:38:40] Connor joe is a very soft buy very soft slightly above league average hitter But it's better than what you're getting right now and then jamer candelario For the reds has played a little bit of first base Just a little bit and he's been

[00:38:56] In soft buy status at a 103 w rc plus He just got signed to a three-year deal in simpson addy though. I don't think they're chipping him away Isn't caught he would he would not if you ate the money it wouldn't cost that much

[00:39:09] It's probably not priority number one. I think I think of any of the guys on this list I think yandidi as easily makes the most sense and the jerry and the rays have the most trade rapport but for soft buying options That there are some options out there

[00:39:27] Yeah, and honestly, I think christian walker could make even more sense than that now I know we've talked about him in other lights and other episodes before but because it's a renal If you are going to go make that package trade for christian walker and paul seawald

[00:39:41] That could be your biggest splash of a trade at the deadline And even that should not cost you that much. Here's what I think a trade for walker and yandidi as would cost you two renels Sorry walker and paul seawald

[00:39:55] You probably send ty forance back in the deal because he has team control Diamondbacks for the time being would need a first baseman And then I'd say it's one de like decent prospect. Maybe it's michael arroyo And then one lottery ticket

[00:40:10] That's what I think it would cost for a package of seawald and walker each guy's a renal two months Arroyo is a top 10 prospect in the system. He's been very good

[00:40:19] That is the highlight guy you get back in the deal, but if you get those guys, it's a setup to win in 2024 You're not tied to them after that if you want to resign them in free agency fine

[00:40:30] Or then you have tyler lockler waiting in the wings for 2025 So that is actually one trade that has been more talked about in the limelight that can make a lot of sense here And you would flat out be the best hitting option. You could get a first base

[00:40:44] period yes So yeah in that in that case alone Sure, that works I will say there should be one more guy included in that trade you could do you get a lot done with

[00:40:55] One trade with the diamondbacks, but i'm gonna get to that when we get to the outfielders because we're going around the diamond So let's go to second base first before I say who that is

[00:41:03] Okay, reynand lau makes the most sense of the race by far. I mean he's a rental He's been a plus hitter Seven years in a row over 100 wrc plus 126 117 104 136 151 127 114 Getting catch that he's been very good for the last seven seasons. He's been a big leaker

[00:41:23] It's walked over 10 of the time each of the last Five years in a row this dude generates offense at second base And he's a rental Rays are hanging out in no man's land if you're not going to trade for yandh ideas

[00:41:38] But the rays will still pick up the phone This just makes too much sense If you take his 126 wrc plus And pair it next to jorhei palancos. Well, where's he at now? Is he below 70? Is he at 70? I think he's in the 70s Let's say he's at

[00:42:00] Let's say he's at 72 that's a 40 No, sorry. That's a 54 percent increase in offensive production Oh boy, 54 percent Do you just do you just hear yourself do you just hear what you said? Oh fuck I can't believe it took you that long to catch that

[00:42:26] You didn't even do it on purpose. It wasn't even with you know It wasn't even to the original point of the of the line, but so that means it should be a mariners trade no matter what it fits There you go

[00:42:38] Yeah, jorhei palanco is just below 70 now wrc plus So yes, even if you are sitting here thinking Brandon Lau Is not some household name. I mean he's pretty well known at this point

[00:42:50] He's you know, he's he's made all-star games, right? He's been an all-star. Yeah, he's been an all-star. I think yeah, I think so so so even if he's not Luis robert lati those guys aren't second baseman, but same thing

[00:43:06] This is such an upgrade. You're telling me that nearly a 60 percent upgraded second base Is a bad idea. No, no, it's not and the fact he's a rental and the fact the mariners and rays make trades all the time Makes way

[00:43:22] Too much sense that like of all the trades we can highlight This one makes so much sense because again, like let's say it again. What's it even costing you somebody in your teens of your prospects and probably the lower teens Should not be very much

[00:43:38] What about a different option that we said hard no on in the off season? What about that a certain second baseman for the scintillati reds? So I looked at jonathan india a little bit and funny enough his profile is a lot better all of a sudden now

[00:43:55] Than it was last year that being said the difference between lao and india Laos profile fits team mobile park much better like he's barreling the ball up He has some pretty decent hard hit rates india still doesn't have great

[00:44:10] Badded ball numbers some of his peripherals are better or better Not everything so am I more inclined to the idea now than this off season? I guess But he's got more control. So it's going to cost you more than lao And I still don't love the profile

[00:44:28] I don't know if would be a soft buy for india But he would make the team better walks a lot doesn't strike out a whole bunch and those home road splits you mentioned he's Been about even So it's you know, it's worked out

[00:44:45] It maybe this is a trade you revisit in the off season perhaps and it also like to push back on your well profile fits team Oval park. We don't know what offense profiles fit team Oval park. It's in utter mystery

[00:44:57] Some some players figure it out and some players don't I still think hitting the ball hard helps for example Would you feel comfortable giving up a haul for resock perreter is knowing that he is a

[00:45:10] Tropicana field merchant and just sprays the ball to left field hitting wall scraping home runs No, I wouldn't be But i'm i'm also not saying I'd rather have jonathan india than branded lao I'm just saying it's not an option you ignore now

[00:45:23] That some of the concerns that you and I said hard no on in the off season have been alleviated And he's getting older and more mature as a player He's walking a whole lot more striking out at the lowest rate of his career

[00:45:34] All the things ahead are in his prime should be doing and he's doing exactly that Which makes you feel more comfortable that he can sustain his offense Sure And there's a couple other second base options out there. They just might be less viable for example

[00:45:49] Luis ren he foes having a great year. I just don't think jerry is making a trade with the angels I don't so that one's probably out the door. We haven't gotten to outfielders yet

[00:45:57] But it's why we're probably not going to spend much time on taylor ward. It's the same idea The other one's jazz chism who we probably don't need to spend a ton of time on because we've talked about him a lot

[00:46:05] But he's somebody that could play second base or the outfield That would that would still make sense. We don't have to dive in too much on him but he would make sense they'd make a lot of sense and

[00:46:16] I want I just wonder how fresh he is at second base because he really has not played a whole lot of second It's been almost all outfield since the beginning of last year So so would that be too much of an in season adjustment?

[00:46:28] Who knows there's another florida option though. I mean, I saw Ahmed Rosario. This would be a soft buy. He's a rental 109 wrc plus he's not going to hit for a ton of power It's not a great defender, but It's pretty significant upgrade from what you got

[00:46:44] Yeah, yeah it is Okay, let's get to a couple outfielders here because there's actually a couple guys in this group that I'm excited about in terms of soft buying in terms of not giving up a bunch of prospects But still making your roster better for 2024

[00:46:59] I use this guy as an example A couple podcasts ago is somebody they could have gone out and signed this off season In terms of making the offense better. Well, now they could go trade for this guy Harrison beta

[00:47:09] If you don't want to give up what the Mets are going to ask for for pitilanzo If you don't think the Mets end up trading pitilanzo The Mets don't start winning They're going to trade some guys and Harrison Bader another rental. He's got six homers

[00:47:21] wrc plus of 107 doesn't strike out a ton about 21 percent of the time Free agent at the end of the year and he's a good defender And a right-handed hit makes some sense

[00:47:31] And a right-handed hitter like would that not be if you were to replace mitch hannagher. Is that not a seamless fit? Seems pretty seamless to me That's an option. I like randall gritchick too

[00:47:42] The diamond backs put him on a plane with c wall and christian walker right-handed hitter 126 wrc plus He's a mutual option after the season. So if you don't want him don't have to keep him And the diamond backs can't really charge that much. He's a vet too

[00:47:57] So you pair those three In that trade package Bulpan arm first baseman right-handed hitting outfielder who's been pretty good this year It would be an enormous upgrade over mitch hannagher offensively

[00:48:09] It solves a lot of your problems too. So him and bader feel like two pretty good and pretty cheap options We just need to be contingent on them falling out of the wild the nationally wild card race

[00:48:21] And it's starting to happen a little bit more maybe not as much with the diamond backs yet But now finally you're starting to see some separation in that nl wild card race

[00:48:31] First off the team in the third spot is no longer a sub 500 team the cardinals have figured some things out And you're starting to see some separation with other teams like the cubs are starting to fall out of it a little bit

[00:48:42] Pirates are like four and a half out nationals are starting to lose some ground Which we'll get to a nationals guy here in a second But same thing like the Mets had that great june. They had their grimace june

[00:48:52] But now in july they haven't gotten off to as hot of a start So we'll see what they look like at the deadline, but if they're not In the race if they're five out at the deadline and they're not above 500

[00:49:03] That's in the seller's boat even if you're five out Maybe you're four out, but you're still two or three under 500 that doesn't feel like a playoff team so that feels like A situation where harris and bader could get traded

[00:49:15] And speaking of teams that are starting to fall out of it. I just mentioned the nationals Lane thomas he's another he's got a year and a half of control

[00:49:23] So you'd have him for next year too. He's right at a 100 w rc plus which I know is by definition league average But let's say it again It'd be a 17 to 18 percent upgrade for mitch hannagher and almost a full war of an upgrade better

[00:49:38] Because mitch hannagher is almost at negative one to be exact. He's at negative point seven Lane thomas is at point six It's a full win you get by getting lane thomas and he fluctuates a little bit

[00:49:50] He could easily get up to 105 105 to from 100 only takes a couple games. So Has eight homers on the year Doesn't strike out a ton Just seems like another guy that can make some sense right handed bat too

[00:50:06] If jesse winker was never a mariner, wouldn't we be pounding the table right now? Oh god I'm serious. We would be probably Yeah, let's do this on a career resurgence right now

[00:50:21] He's he would be everything you'd want offensive. The only thing you'd want is him to hit right hand it otherwise Be like that's the dude right there But is he gonna play the outfield? We will we wouldn't we would have no idea

[00:50:37] We just know he had a reputation as a terrible defender, but we've listed some terrible defenders and some suggestions here Yeah, it's true. Although if you were going to go get a left-handed hitting bat I have a guy I like better and honestly of all these guys

[00:50:52] Might be the one I like the best Michael confordo, Seattle native. He's got a 114 w RC plus. He's got 10 bombs another rental free agent at the end of the year I think that one makes a lot of sense and by the way his splits aren't that drastic

[00:51:07] He can hit both lefties and righties. I love that option I think it would be seamless. I think it would you know, this doesn't play into trades But I think the fan base would be fired up by it

[00:51:17] You got a Seattle native come into a team that's contending for a playoff spot and gonna try to make a run And he's been a very productive hitter who you are not tied to after this year

[00:51:25] I like that idea a lot and he's already had to hit in a pitchers park Won't have to be as much of an adjustment He already plays at a park that is legitimately sitting on the water With dense air and he'd go to another one

[00:51:39] His whole career has been pitchers parks. He played at city field, which is a pitchers park and then he played it He's played in san francisco So I like that I like it a lot So well that makes so that one makes more sense as a left-handed hitter

[00:51:55] Because jesse winker's been a mariner Now michael confordo at this point of his career is not a Unbelievable defender. I don't he's not like not not in prime No, he's I think he's about a negative two outs above average guys. So not great, but

[00:52:11] Mitch hannagher's also been one of the worst defenders in baseball this year. So it's it's still an upgrade Yeah, yes, it is upgrade in every every sense of the way So if you pick any combination of these guys, we just listed off

[00:52:23] I think this would have a chance to make a really significant impact on this mariner's team And it could look totally different come august 1st And you could play two good months and win a weak ale west

[00:52:35] That's what you need to do. You need to win the worst Division in baseball. Can you do it? I think with those group of players and the pitching staff continuing to do what it does I think you can do it How long could the mariners afford to wait?

[00:52:50] after After the draft Like once the draft's over then jerry starts hammering the phones for rentals You have to and I know jerry's never been one to trade for rentals, but this feels like the year Get into the playoffs. Give yourself a chance. Give this rotation a chance

[00:53:09] And then this off season your regroup your reset You figure out the long-term pieces you need moving forward But you are in first place right now If you don't want to give up your blue chip prospects fine

[00:53:22] I'm not crazy about the idea of giving up emerson or felmene or mo or lizaro montez or a lot of these guys And fine don't but let me ask people this I've said this offense needs an overhaul it does

[00:53:36] Because like like that's the other part of this one bat can't save you louise robert cannot save you That's one guy. You need multiple so Let me ask fans this if this deadline were to end And you had the additions of christian walker

[00:53:53] Paul seawall brandon lough and michael confordo. That's the combination i'd pick How would you feel because i'll tell you how i'd feel i'd say you just got three significant upgrades in your offense

[00:54:05] A back end bullpen guy and you had to give up none of your blue chip prospects I would walk away from that deadline saying awesome. Let's go And if the offense still can't figure it out then you're not a playoff team anyways

[00:54:18] And you didn't mortgage your future to find out that reality because the worst thing that happens Is if you get in a bidding war for vlady or lubeb

[00:54:27] And you get to the deadline you swing the trade and you realize oh this team actually is not a playoff team Don't deserve to make the playoffs and then you just gave up what could be potentially a future superstar in return

[00:54:40] Or you could spend all that time negotiating deals fall through and you don't get anyone And you're left empty handed at the deadline and then people will be pissed And then this team won't make the playoffs. So that's the case They can't score enough runs to do that

[00:54:54] Now let's say this too because all of those moves would be great if if you went somewhere down that path And just to use my example, that was your deadline. You got walker. You got seawall Do you got brandon lough? You got michael confordo? That'd be great

[00:55:08] It is still however contingent on the guys you absolutely rely on on this team To turn things around because not everybody in this lineup is going to turn it around That's why there's going to be some guys that get moved on from

[00:55:21] But I would say the big three huleo cal jp Those three have to turn it around because you're not going anywhere In terms of shying away from those guys, they're going to be here and they should be here

[00:55:33] And they have to do more than they're doing right now all three of them. So to bring those other guys in Would be awesome, but it has to be paired with those three getting going Out of all the guys we just lifted listed

[00:55:47] I want you guys in the comment section either on youtube. You can shoot us a dm leave us a comment however However, you think about it. What combination of those guys would you acquire?

[00:55:57] That you think would give this team the facelift it needs to make the playoffs whatever combination you need Drop us a comment on youtube send us a dm instagram You try on twitter or reply to one of our tweets with the combination you want let us know

[00:56:12] We're interested to know love this discussion, but I also love the idea of who of who we had on today I'm a big fan. Let me get the pronunciation of his last name right lance brazdauski You know how I found lance on tiktok

[00:56:27] I didn't know he worked for marquie as a pitching analyst But I watch his tiktoks a lot. He's smart. He's concise if you want to learn pitching in bite size advanced pitching

[00:56:38] In bite size capacities. He does a very good job breaking it down on tiktok. It makes me a lot smarter With knowing how guys operate on the mound He really does know his stuff and now full transparency. I was not part of this interview

[00:56:52] I was flying at the time this interview was recorded. So it's just lyall but Lance is extremely smart. He's a rising star in this industry and he really really knows his stuff

[00:57:04] He's great and he's also a very busy guy. So if you're wondering why it's just one of us on the interview It wasn't us just saying well, guess what tj? You're gonna set this one out. No Lance is a busy guy. He had a certain time

[00:57:17] In a certain time period We said, you know what it's better for one of us to do it than not do it at all So we had him on I sat down and talked to him He was awesome

[00:57:26] And we hope you guys enjoy the interview because you're about to learn a whole lot more about these mariner's arms and get a A lot smarter doing it. Let's get to that conversation with lance brazdowski

[00:57:37] All right, we've got lance brazdowski on with us. He's a player development analyst for marquis Also got his own youtube channel Pitching guru He certainly turned himself into that over the last few years if you follow him on social media

[00:57:48] You definitely know that lance. We're really excited to have you on I wanted to start with a bit of a general question How did you learn everything that you've learned about pitching with the background that you have? Yeah, that's a great question. Uh, my background is weird

[00:58:03] I was an accountant for like three or four years in the city of boston after going to undergrad for accounting But took a bunch of sport classes and it had always been interested in baseball and like numbers and trying to digest info

[00:58:13] and thinking honestly just like thinking about complex problems in baseball And had a mentor of mine at umass push me once I was in accounting And I immediately knew I didn't want to stay there pushed me into journalism journalism

[00:58:25] I've always been interested in the media side communicating info Doing as best as I could on that as opposed to going more team side So that's always been one of the limitation not a limitation, but just a A path that I've taken within the skills that I've acquired

[00:58:39] But I'd say honestly man, like the biggest thing is just talking to people Who are smart and like asking them good questions And there's like a funny period of time where in journalism school grad school at north western I like Wanted to be more of a news breaker

[00:58:55] And I just didn't really enjoy talking to agents I like couldn't motivate myself to do it And I just I just felt like I had nothing to give them in terms of you know, I was just wasting their time

[00:59:05] I was like, can you just tell me where this guy's going so I could tweet about it It's like that's how I thought that whole industry worked and and honestly I think that actually might be how it still works, but I just got a lot more motive

[00:59:15] I was you have to find like what motivates you and I was motivated to like talk to coaches Get them to talk to me on off the record stuff Just like what are you guys doing internally?

[00:59:25] You know, like how do you perceive this and like you'd get pushback and like But over time, you know, 34 is doing it You like develop people who you become really close contacts with and That's really the way I've done it

[00:59:34] Like just kind of doing my own thing learning stats and like thinking about stuff But also then asking questions to people that really I think developed my understanding probably better than anything else So I've got two follow-ups to that number one on a scale of one to ten

[00:59:48] How close did you get to being the next Jeff Passon when you were trying to break news? Oh, it's zero. There's no chance. I was even close to that like I've Been in minor contact with Jeff this year. Actually, I've been meaning to meet him

[01:00:01] Primarily because he found my sub stack, which was a nice little pump for me And he threw it in one of his espn pieces and I appreciated that and I emailed him and said thanks and stuff. So I was not even close like not even remotely close

[01:00:13] The problem is like I've run into is like sometimes I'll get info But like I know for me preserving the relationship with that person is far greater than like tweeting That this guy is hurt because of this or like he's being demoted, you know

[01:00:27] And it's like it's just there's just no value and it's a real skill to like I think convert those people into actual sources Like I don't know maybe that happens over time when they get some of the people I talk to get into more leadership positions

[01:00:39] But I just I don't think it will happen. Like there's other people there like Robert Murray is later really good foundation on that Um, who I imagine he will send to be the next Heyman whenever Heyman decides to use wants to hang it up so to speak

[01:00:52] But but yeah, I'm not even close to that. I those guys do such different Things than I do, you know, it's just a different beast. I think you know But I'm sure I can learn something from them honestly in terms of how they operate with people

[01:01:04] Sure 100% and my second follow-up to that first answer was on a little bit more of a serious note Your go-to site or pod bath for Consuming pitching information is what so I use this place called true media, which is not available publicly

[01:01:21] But I handed them for long enough where they gave me a comp subscription this year It's what a lot of teams use to just aggregate info. It's just a really efficient way to look at

[01:01:29] Live short form movement on pitch just pitch stuff. So like is this fastball shape different is the release different, etc I like their heat map structure better than what savon has in terms of not having to click through 14 filters to get what you need

[01:01:41] And then hitting export like it's just all right there It's just an efficiency thing really it's like As I've wanted to do more stuff your time shrinks and you need to figure out how to be more efficient and True media just makes me really efficient honestly

[01:01:52] It's not even a plug for them because you can't even access it because you can't pay for it You know, I mean it's like super expensive like for any consumer to pay for it if they wanted to but yeah

[01:01:59] I just love that site. It's just my bread and butter And was there a second one there? No, that was it. Yeah, that old podcast you mentioned. I love I mean, you know, saris is pretty obvious when he's a great dude

[01:02:11] Rates and barrels on I play a decent amount of fantasy I don't play a ton of fantasy But I find that like their analysis is really good on What I like which is more national level

[01:02:20] What is going on in the league and what does you know think of certain guys and yeah for sure I also like the craft they've been doing him and nick pollock

[01:02:27] Again, I'm more like a national baseball fan as opposed to somebody who's like locked into a certain market Which is ironic because I work for the cubs tv network

[01:02:34] But I very much know this cub market really well in the cub team but much more like whenever I'm mad at working I'm thinking about the league more than I'm thinking about individual team. Sure that makes a lot of sense

[01:02:45] So for people that maybe aren't familiar with you or haven't seen your work that you like you really like to dive in to the nitty gritty of

[01:02:52] Pitching and pitcher like you dive into it like you said a lot of the heat maps a lot of the pitch sequencing a lot of guys Repetoirs all that so For those that don't get into the weeds quite as much as you do

[01:03:03] I'll start you with this on a little bit more of a basic route or a basic question What is the first thing you look at when evaluating a pitcher? huh The first thing I look at is

[01:03:15] But I think that's evolved. I think initially I used to just look at results And just see like eri fit back to fit back to eri just like get a general idea of like how he's performed and how some of the Expected stats think he's performing

[01:03:27] I think now what I do is actually look at shapes So I'll look at things that are not result based first. So I'll look at like What is this like if it's a new pitcher say it's a call-up?

[01:03:36] I have minor league data so like I know what the guy's doing before he's called up But say I like haven't actually looked at a pitcher trying to think of there's an example this year of a guy like that but

[01:03:44] You know, maybe like a couple like athletics guys have been like joey estus I was like, I have no idea who this is. Let me just take a look. I'll go to like a pitch plot understand

[01:03:54] Generally what they're throwing in the shapes they're throwing at the whatever velocities And I'll I'll do the results stuff last now because I'll like try to form an opinion on like what I think the guy's trying to do And whether he's successful split it on handedness

[01:04:07] See if he maybe has a weakness or something get that like the archetype of pitcher Is he like over the top split or foreseeing curve? Like is he looking guilty to pull back to you guys or is it like

[01:04:17] You know, is it more uh, brian wu like is a low slot ride guy like okay I think that'll probably be a little more effective in this respect and so I'll form that opinion and then I'll see if the results line up

[01:04:26] And if they don't then I'll go back and be like what am I missing? So as I find that just a better way to form an unbiased opinion It's kind of like looking if you ever go to games at like and like try scout players

[01:04:36] It's like form opinions It's like I used to when I first did that and watched games from like behind home in the minor leagues and stuff I would I would look at the data beforehand and then go there and a lot of that is just pure confirmation bias

[01:04:48] Where it's just like, oh, yeah, this this rest was getting swing and miss and it's like well Yeah, it's because I saw it got above average swing miss now I don't want to see anything like I go to my early game and I'm watching the opposing pitcher

[01:04:57] I want nothing on that picture. I just want to sit down and then I'll literally like guess the shapes I'll like write down what I think it is generally and what the slot is and what and then I'll go back to the day

[01:05:05] And see if it lines up So I think I've just evolved to the point where I'm like I just want to form my own opinion and see If I'm wrong based on my intuition. So that's probably where I go first is pitch shape

[01:05:15] So if you were to go to a minor league game and like you said, you don't want to have any information on the guy But let's say you're seeing like a high end prospect, right? Yeah, you must unfortunately. I probably know what he's doing so

[01:05:27] So I've looked at a lot of those guys So it's a balance It's like it's it's if it's somebody you haven't seen then maybe you can go in with a little bit more of a clear kind of a clear plate, but

[01:05:38] Sometimes it's just you're going to know what you're getting. Yeah, like I know I mean, I'm trying to go like top like Jackson jove Like I've looked at Jackson jove enough to know what he throws

[01:05:47] So it's like I can't be surprised by anything he's doing from his shapers But I'm not gonna guess the shapes because I've already seen them Goes for any of the top pitching probably any of the honestly like the top 30 pitching crossings because I do like a

[01:05:57] Little list on my sub stack and stuff So that's unfortunate honestly the subjects I wish I could like Erase my brain and then go watch all the top 30 guys and then form opinions and look back at the data

[01:06:06] But when you write them up it's things sticking to your head. So it's just inevitable Yeah Well, if we're going to transition a little bit to some of these Mariners guys I know I mentioned at the start of this

[01:06:15] You do have your own youtube channel and you do a bunch of breakdowns on guys for anybody who hasn't checked out Lance's youtube channel go check it out and a couple guys you've done videos on this year

[01:06:24] Logan Gilbert and George Kirby. I figure we'd start with Logan who if he's from Our point of view and I think a lot of Mariners fans point of view from where we're at this point of the season

[01:06:33] He's been the ace of the staff. He's been the most dependable pitcher. He works deep into games and part of that is He's added a pitch in a cutter that's done a lot for him but

[01:06:44] One I know it's been an effective pitch but two I know you're kind of big on the idea that Adding pitches isn't always the greatest thing now for Logan Gilbert. I know it's done wonders for him

[01:06:55] But I know you say it's not it's not one size fits all for all pitchers. So what is your Take and what is your thought process behind that? Yeah, it's a it's a great point. I think I think we've gone to the point in the league where

[01:07:10] More pitches is better like I've heard this from some coaches too or she's like I just want a guy throwing a lot of pitches Like I just want more options for him to stave off issues with certain hands

[01:07:20] Or if he doesn't have a pitch in a certain spot and I think the point I was trying to get across with that Gilbert video was like You know For him, it's clearly worked and I love the adjustment. I hope I made that that strong of a point

[01:07:32] Although I might have done that early enough in the year where I wasn't sure if it was gonna work, you know But like his fastball is not great, you know, he throws it hard

[01:07:38] But it's just based on how he throws it. It just gets hit and you've seen Basically every single year he's cut like 10 10 percentage points of usage on his fastball He came into league and that was like 60 percent and then it's 50 and then 40 now

[01:07:52] 31 and I think the problem with a lot of pitchers is that If you want to drop forcing usage, which everyone kind of wants to do now because it's just it's one of those really basic math equations where it's just like not even math equation just

[01:08:06] What gets hit most and it's like oh fastballs is like, oh you throw that 50 percent of the time. Is it elite? It's like no, it's actually pretty bad. It's like, okay, so are you throwing it?

[01:08:13] You know what I mean? It's like that's like just I think what a lot of people are starting to do Like we're just not throwing bad pitches anymore But the problem is like you could dream on a bunch of guys and be like

[01:08:23] Oh, this guy just cut his fastball usage and it's like We'll look at the serve of look under a little board and realize that like he has nothing else He could strike consistently, you know

[01:08:33] And as a result of that you see like the red sox and all these other teams pull like give me sinker cutter Give me other things that we think the guy can kind of zone at an above average rate

[01:08:41] So he's not walking 20 percent of the 15 percent of the batteries he faces, you know And with Gilbert That's where I think the cutter came in where it's I don't want to throw this fastball anymore because it's getting pounded What do we do and it's like

[01:08:55] Can we get something that's a little more off-barrel and better? That we could take some of the fastball usage away with And you get the cutter which is a weird cutter. It's like super backs one

[01:09:05] You know, it's got a lot more lift than your average cutter and it's harder It's it's almost like a forcing fastball that cuts which is I understand that's just a cutter

[01:09:14] But if you look at like shapes and plots and stuff it just it has so much lifting backspin on it relative to what you'd expect Your average cutter to have when I think of a cutter

[01:09:23] I think of like 90 91 with like not a ton of sweep or lift and like Gilbert's is basically a second forcing fastball that cuts It's it's weird. It's hard to explain it, but So what they did with that pitchers is he could strike that pitch now

[01:09:35] So therefore you could cut this fastball you can just down to like 30 percent get it down to 20 percent Whereas otherwise if you didn't have that cut you you were not going to be able to get it below 40 percent or other is walk or walks were just gonna pop

[01:09:46] You know, so that's kind of like the progression of how I think of that problem And to get back to the video like I also talk about the fact that like I think when you add pitches It can affect guys which I

[01:09:57] The problem here is that we just don't have a lot of public biomech data And i'm also not a biomechanist, so I can't really like look at footage and be like oh, he's moving differently I'm not good at that try to get better. It's really hard

[01:10:07] Um, this is why organizations have data to do this So they could just maybe maybe you know the pitching coach can catch. Oh, he's flying open here You know, but it's probably better to back it up with the data at the end of the day

[01:10:18] Which is what a lot of teams probably realize so that's the other angle It's like okay, you do all this you have to cut her and it's like well How's it affecting him?

[01:10:23] He's moving differently. Is that affecting other pitches has his location drifted here and there because of that It's just uh, it's it's a lot of things to consider as opposed to just Like you see online give everyone a cutter give everyone a sinker

[01:10:34] It's like teams are actually starting to do that they've listened to the twitter trolls It's just there's byproduct of it that maybe is tougher to square off than the public thinks

[01:10:43] Right and we'll get into tinkering here in a couple minutes, which is I know another thing you've talked about But Logan is known for being a huge tinker. He's always messing with his arsenal

[01:10:52] He's always looking to add things he's added something every year and to your point about the biomechanics I'm genuinely curious because I don't know the answer to this But I know you talked about the reason that sometimes adding pitches is not beneficial

[01:11:03] Because like you said it changes the movement. It has the potential to lead to injuries But with Logan is the fact he gets such great extension a benefit for him Like like does that have anything to do with the fact that

[01:11:15] Tinkering with pitches and adding pitches could actually Like is he less prone to injuries? Yeah I don't know. That's a good question. I would say not I would say that extension doesn't relate to it I think the extension is just a byproduct of like how he moves

[01:11:30] Like a lot of the stuff we have is Like I almost call them output variables where it's like we have release an extension and all this stuff But that's all because of probably something happening earlier in the kinetic chain Like there's something in his lower body. That's different

[01:11:44] You know then an average pitcher doesn't extend that much and as a result of that we get these crazy extension numbers So I would say that like that's more of a feature of how he moves So I don't think it mitigates anything

[01:11:56] I think just throwing a baseball hard creates injury and like I Stop thinking about like other things that could create injury because like I just think it's so heavily based towards

[01:12:06] Velo and throwing a ball that like I don't I don't know if like extension mitigates that and I would doubt it does From the tinkering perspective, not entirely sure. Actually, that's a good question

[01:12:15] I don't know if extension has any correlation to like how the guy will be able to get to certain shapes and stuff But I would bet not I would bet that that extension number is just more so reflecting how he moves and then everything else

[01:12:26] Is kind of layered on top So speaking of tinkering if we get to our next guy, which would be george kirby He's somebody that's tinkered with his pitch arsenal a little bit this year and you've talked about that

[01:12:36] That was the other video you did this year on a mariners pitcher What do you make of kirby's slightly increased sinker usage so far this year? Yeah, the sinker is interesting I don't know if there's anything there that I like go crazy with like

[01:12:50] He feels like a guy that's just gonna play around with both those shapes whatever he wants I really think the main thing with him was The slider early in the year wasn't good versus righties and

[01:13:00] In those situations like you run into an interesting conundrum, which is what I that video was whole base Based on where it's like Okay, you suck at your peripherals say you're gonna get better Like do you as an organization preach that that guy should just

[01:13:16] Continue to do what he's doing trust the process so to speak Or do you let the guy actively try to figure something else to help the regression? I think a lot of the time

[01:13:27] You hear from players in media. They're just like I'm just trusting the process trusting the process And like sometimes I think that's true But I don't necessarily think it's always true

[01:13:34] And you run into this like Corbin burns last year not to get like out of the out of the mariners org But he was a guy who like was really bad versus righties I believe and then at the all-star break. He was just like

[01:13:45] I can't do this like we're throwing a sweeper and i'm adding sinkers and i'm changing my grip and now i'm dominating them Rest of season And it's like then you see this season he basically isn't throwing a sinker and he went back to his old slider

[01:13:56] So it's like the the utility of those two pitches for burns was just to get him through the year Which gets to a larger point of like maybe guys just run into weird stuff

[01:14:04] And like you should actively help them tinker even if you believe that the process will get him back to like The average stats that you expect him to with Kirby He was bad with the slider. I don't know what's going on there

[01:14:15] The pitch was off he adds a cutter for like three games And then he goes back to the old side of the old sliders harder and it's now he's fine And it's like that's a fascinating situation to be. I don't know if anyone's talked to him

[01:14:26] I don't know if I I can't say I follow his press conferences and stuff or local beat guys But I wonder whether anyone's asked him about that my theory is that he used that cutter

[01:14:34] Purely as a device to get back his slider where he was just like I just think this needs to be harder And for some reason they didn't just have him cue the slider harder harder They were like throw it cutter for three games or maybe Kirby was like

[01:14:46] What if I just take this grip and or like or it is slightly different and just rip the crap out of it And now let me go back to the slider. It's like, oh that feel, you know

[01:14:54] It's almost like like getting used to the feel of that movement has helped him. So that's my angle on that I don't know if it's true, uh, but that's my guess. It's a really funny adjustment

[01:15:04] I don't think I've seen really anything like that in the last couple years that I've played around with stuff Where you guys like I'm gonna add a pitch and it's like, oh it looks pretty good

[01:15:11] And it's like it's just gone and he went back to an older pitch. That's now harder So I just that cutter had to have some impact on how hard he was throwing his sliders my theory

[01:15:19] Well, if there's one thing people learn about george kirby is he's also not afraid to try and add pitches Dude adds a knuckleball last game of the year last year and just whips it right out to core seeker. Yeah, that was awesome That was super fun moment. Yeah

[01:15:30] Do you think I have this theory that I can't sit here and say yeah I know from george. It's 100 true But I have this theory that he doesn't even like striking guys out Which is part of the reason I wonder if he increased your usage at all

[01:15:44] Because I think what he loves is keeping his pitch count way down Working deep into games and basically being a workhorse Which like that sinker like you talked about in the in your youtube video doesn't get a whole ton of swing and miss

[01:15:56] It's a you know, it's a soft contact pitch Yet despite his foreseeing fastball by run value being his best pitch. He loves to throw that sinker So part of it at least on my end I wonder if he likes to throw that a lot more because

[01:16:09] It keeps his pitch count down and it's still effective The hard thing. Yeah, I mean, that's not a bad theory. The hard thing you're a few is just like You one pitch to get an out is more effective than

[01:16:21] Three plus if you're trying to strike someone out and it's like sure Maybe we believe generally in the statistic world that You control the strikeout more, you know so to speak. Oh, sorry my thing fell. We're gonna keep this going

[01:16:34] We're good. We're good. I had this propped up and it fell. Anyways. Yeah, you control the strikeout more so to speak So that's probably why everyone's pushed towards strikeouts, but I would say I would say that's an interesting theory because I've talked to guys too

[01:16:50] Who are like I haven't a lot like this is random a Tyler Wells. I talked to last year about this He was coming off injury like I asked him something. I was like your strikeout rates down a lot and he's like listen man

[01:17:01] Like I'm giving an alarm and a pitches for the next 20 starts because I'm coming off I think it was tj or some injury He's like I'm gonna try to get as many else as I can with those pitches and for me that's throwing more non

[01:17:12] Big fastball or just not a big sweeper slider curveball shapes because I can't zone those as much And he's like i'm relatively confident of a min zone

[01:17:20] I'm gonna get blah blah blah and it's like an interesting idea because I've heard from there's been some other research done that like Okay doing that from a Trying to strike guys out doesn't have that much of an impact on pitch Uh count

[01:17:35] But I've heard it so much from players that I just think the statistics are wrong Which might be a really hot take but there's just been certain times where like a player tells you something over and over and over Like I struggle sometimes with

[01:17:47] You know whether it's backed up, you know Like if the stats are telling or trying to communicate the right thing or if we're missing something in it

[01:17:54] And there are definitely situations where that isn't the case right like if a hitter tells you they swing down at the ball And then you see they're attacking and everyone swings out It's like okay

[01:18:02] Like there's a disconnect here like your feel is to swing down, but you're actually swinging up So there's something wrong and I feel like I've run into that with this idea that we're talking about here where it's like Striking out guys is good. We think that's more predictive

[01:18:14] Let's lean on that but this guy just wants outs and the most effective way to do that It's probably just throwing sinkers and getting those as quick as possible really count And it's like no

[01:18:23] He should strike us out because we think that's more predictive and like it doesn't actually increase pitch now And the pitchers like it does. I'm not going to do that So it's like I don't I can't side with the statistics on that if I've had

[01:18:34] George curvy and your theory here Pointed out, you know, it's like I don't know what to do. I'm throwing my hands up Before we get to a couple of the other Mariners pitchers

[01:18:42] I am curious since you talked about tinkering a lot in that video for pitchers in general What is it about tinkering that you personally don't always love? It's tough

[01:18:53] I would say I I'd say maybe I've changed my opinion from that video and I've leaned more now on liking it I think the thing that I like the most is when a pitcher is really bad

[01:19:03] Like the org and probably the pitcher want to change something very quickly You saw us with hunter brown this year where he was like Very bad and he changed like everything like that dude came into the year with different pitches

[01:19:15] Midway through the year in the matter of start They push them to the pen for two games or whatever he comes out He's like throwing a sinker he ditched the cotter. Yeah, he went back to his old slider

[01:19:24] He changed locations. He moved on the rubber and now he's good It's like I think of a guy's bet Like I like those guys who were bad because you know

[01:19:32] Like I like looking at things that are changing right in my sub stack and other things and even youtube and it's like I pretty confident if you have a five vr. A in peripherals that aren't great

[01:19:41] You're gonna change something so i'm gonna lock into what you're changing and how quickly you're gonna change it The way you think you get a little more odd is like the guy whose average Who you think has very little chance to be above average

[01:19:53] Except for a random bad at ball luck that you're not going to be able to control Those guys are the ones that I think should be tinkering more and the team should be like Accepting of more risk that this guy regresses

[01:20:03] But accepting some chance that he gets really good because you change a pitch or a location or split a pitch location And he's throwing sinkers inside and outside now Like that stuff I want more of and I think sharp orcs do this

[01:20:13] But I do think a lot of orcs are really risk averse especially with high dollar investment pitchers where they're just like We obviously gotta be a 4 3 or a pitcher the league average is 4 3 We will not do anything to this pitcher. We want to be 4 3 for 180 innings

[01:20:26] We worry that doing anything to potentially get up down to a 3 8 Is like just gonna hurt him or do something else like teams are afraid of that I think generally and I do I got to give him credit to the Mariners like mariners

[01:20:37] I don't know if it's culture what they do in the miners or whatever Like all these guys are tinkering and changing stuff all the time and I love that Like you you see a their top 5 era in baseball among starting pitchers like

[01:20:47] They're changing and they're better and it makes his probably more confused and like I Think other teams should look at that and be like we need to do that more Like we need to change pitches every offseason on guys and in season tinker and play around

[01:20:59] It's like, I don't know how you elicit that culture, but the Mariners have done really well So getting to brian will here who might be my personal favorite guy in the whole rotation to watch

[01:21:10] He had he's so unique between you know the the wacky release point and the The release point is the release point the induced vertical break All that stuff that makes him so hard to pick up for hitters as a result of that

[01:21:24] He's throwing 80 percent fastballs this year a little bit less last year But he has been a guy that relies very much on his two fastballs that are both very very good pitches How long can he go throughout his career?

[01:21:36] And stick with that approach because that's a lot of fastballs I don't think it's good. There's no chance. He does this for long But if for now it's working, you know, like you've seen a little tinkering versus lefties too

[01:21:46] Like he's throwing more singularly starting more change up there. He's trying to go towards other pitches At the end of the day the fastball is his best pitch like that that ride forcing works for him He had really big issues

[01:21:56] I mean another example we're talking about like he got crushed by lefties last year to start his career And then he adds like that cutter slider in between thing and it's like, okay Yeah, that's another great example of like you're clearly having efficiency

[01:22:08] Like we need to change and get better and fix that deficiency as much as we can And I I think it's working for now I doubt that we look at him next year and see this this amount of fastball usage

[01:22:20] The only way I think it could work is if he has pretty good command if I remember correctly off top of my head Like if he goes to multiple locations with one pitch, which is something I've been thinking about a lot more

[01:22:28] And I don't really think we capture too well in data is like arranger swars like ranger swars lefty for the filly He's been amazing season. He throws his sinker away and inside To righty specifically and it's kind of based on count

[01:22:42] But that to me is two pitches like I don't think that's one pitch Like it's just not like you're prepping for that as a hitter You're not mentally thinking this this pitch is only in this spot

[01:22:52] You're thinking the sinkers in and the sinkers out even if it's count based It's too perspective and too visual standpoints that I always wonder whether that helps what I call like the decay of a pitch over time

[01:23:02] Like whether that pitch becomes more effective as you turn over the line It's because you go to two spots with it like that's something I thought about a lot I just think that's like a really important part of a lot of really good pitchers is like

[01:23:12] Playing around multiple spots like either going on the path of multiple locations with one pitch We're going on the path of just having multiple pitches if your command is not good enough to go to multiple locations. So

[01:23:21] That's how woo's going to be able to survive with 70 plus or whatever. Yes fastball usage It's cool for now. There's no way there's I'd be stunned if like down the road He's this good with 70 plus percent fastball. I just don't think that's gonna happen

[01:23:37] Is there one of his other pitches that you think he's gonna have to start leaning on more like so the changeup Usage is slightly increased this year

[01:23:44] But is is it the change up or is it one of those other pitches that you feel like he's gonna have to start to lean on?

[01:23:49] Yeah, I think I think that's a he's a he's a case where I'd always split on head and this because I think that change of Usages it looks like it's up a little but then if you split lefty only it's probably up a little more

[01:23:57] Just because he doesn't throw a lot versus righties and stuff. So that's one of the situations where yeah, like I want the change Up to lefties. I think that's a fine pitch, you know The bolt slider thing he throws like I probably jumped that usage too

[01:24:08] He's a tough one because like the fastballs are good. So then he like we were talking earlier about like Gilbert's fastball We just had a long enough sample to just know it wasn't great And therefore we cut the usage as much as humanly possible with woo

[01:24:19] It's more like where's the floor, you know, like it might be above 50% Like lee average isn't around there for starters or actually is around there for starters So I would say like he might still end up like a bubbly average fastball usage guys a starter but That's not 70%

[01:24:35] He made it 55 Between the two fastballs to righties and like he plays around with that, you know Like 35 20 percent combined those and it's like, okay, cool. That'll work You know, like that's totally fine. None of those pitches individually are over a certain amount

[01:24:46] But he's a great encapsulation like the modern game with multiple fastballs Like we continue to have issues with offense because pitchers are getting really good And a lot of guys just know you should probably throw multiple fastballs for whatever reason the data is saying

[01:24:59] Um, but yeah, no, I it'll come down, but it's more about her flying the floor for it. I think sure And the last guy I want to touch on with you is brice miller who speaking of tinkering

[01:25:09] It's kind of been a theme of this theme of this interview where adds the splitter It's been a good pitch for him this year. It's been a very good pitch, but overall I think he's still getting hit pretty hard and I think

[01:25:20] A lot of times it's on a fastball and it's on mistake fastballs Is there anything you watch with brice miller where you say here's how he can limit hard contact going forward

[01:25:29] He's still young in his career, of course, but how can he work on that? Yeah, I have I don't think I have a golden key answer for you here um He's he's an interesting case where like it's another testament to tinkering where it's like

[01:25:44] Miller's approach. I think it was relatively simple last year. I had great results For the most part, like I know the r.a. Wasn't was basically the average But I'd say for 24 year old in the bigs first season, you know

[01:25:53] Pumping up innings a lot like I think it was a great season for him in my opinion Uh, and he also had a heck of a start to the year I remember is that was really fun going through Atlanta and some other was really good liners and dominating

[01:26:03] He's a guy tinkered to stay the same where that is a great example of like hitters being really good It's like I he's uh, the proof was had him like a four fifth three two four three era last year

[01:26:14] So like one way you could look at it if you again, let's get right to our tinkering points Like okay, you can look at that and just be like i'm gonna be a four era in a picture next year

[01:26:20] If I do the exact same thing and it's like no you're probably not because everyone's gonna game plan against you differently And come into the season know exactly what you're gonna do So he added the sinker, you know play around with some other things

[01:26:30] I think he's throwing the slider harder if I remember correctly from early season on that stuck And he's the same picture right? It's like a three nine. Yeah, right with like a worst fit and everything looks pretty identical Like the kays are the same little more walks

[01:26:42] Homers are the same barrels up slightly so he's getting hit a little harder So he's a tough one for me I'd have to look a little deeper and come up with a better answer for you

[01:26:51] But he's I just think his year over year adjustments are a good example of like Needing to tinker in order to stay ahead and by staying ahead you're just the same picture

[01:27:01] And maybe that perpetually happens throughout his career. I think the fastball is just good so good that It will always be a decent part of his repertoire He cut his fastball usage too though. It's down like 45 percent this year

[01:27:12] You know with the splitter usage double the sinker usage, etc So I i'm curious to see his evolution. I don't think I have like a great answer for you on him I wonder whether there's another pitch that we haven't discovered with him yet

[01:27:24] That's like harder cutter. Maybe he does the logan gilbert or it's like let's cut the fastball usage down to 35 percent And they give you one of these weird logan gilbert style cutters and see what happens

[01:27:33] Um, that'd be my guess right now, but I don't think i'm super confident in that answer Sure Well, that makes sense I mean he was he was essentially by the end of the year last year only throwing

[01:27:42] Two pitches and he added one this off season that's helped him a lot But still so early on in his career Still you know mixing and matching with a lot of things when you get into your three or your four like logan gilbert is

[01:27:53] Who's to say he doesn't add some more pitches because you know, he's learning as he goes Exactly totally great Lance has been awesome. I know you're a busy guy

[01:28:01] Thanks so much for carving out some time to talk about this has been a bunch of fun for anybody listening Make sure to go chance check out lance on marquis his youtube page his sub stack page all that stuff

[01:28:09] So lance, thanks for hopping on we hope to do this again soon. Yeah for sure. Thanks for having me guys a lot of fun Thanks for watching I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation with lance brazdauski. He is the man. He is extremely smart

[01:28:21] We hope you learned a lot more about this mariner's pitching staff With that that'll just about wrap up this edition of the marine layer podcast You guys know the drill you want to listen to the full form podcast

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[01:28:42] tiktok twitter and youtube shorts at marine layer pod That's tj. I'm lyall as always. We thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon