Episode 171: Grading The 2024 Mariners Infield

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[00:00:55] Welcome to Episode number 171 of the Marine Layer Podcast.

[00:00:59] It's our season grades for the 2024 Mariners infield.

[00:01:04] The first of a few of these segments, we'll do infield, we'll do outfield and then we'll do the pitching staff as well.

[00:01:09] But up first are the infield grades. Here's your guys reminder. If you want to stay on top of all of our stuff, the best way you can do that and support us is make sure you're downloading these podcast episodes.

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[00:01:37] Let's get it rolling.

[00:01:50] And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network recording on Monday evening, October 7th.

[00:01:59] As you can hear, I'm a little nasally right now. I know Lyle's not feeling well either today. So I can say this with confidence. I think we're having withdrawals.

[00:02:06] I think we had spent so long watching, whether joyfully or not, a certain baseball team. And now they've not been playing and we're watching different teams. And I think our bodies are reacting accordingly at this point.

[00:02:23] Yeah, it's definitely not the changing of seasons. It's the changing of missing watching, you know, 162 games of really inspiring baseball team.

[00:02:33] You know, what I think about is, you know, our bodies should be, I feel like, be used to the changing of seasons and not decide to get sick.

[00:02:42] Like, the same thing should apply with the Mariners not playing in October. I feel like our bodies, once September ends, knows the season is over.

[00:02:49] So why, why do I have to suffer the consequences now where I feel like I'm breathing out of a straw, but now have to assess some grades?

[00:02:57] Because they're like, huh, if you didn't think watching this team was suffering enough, okay, no, now we're going to grade the infield, which is the toughest group to grade and the most painful group to grade of this entire roster.

[00:03:08] Oh, and you're going to feel like crap while you do it.

[00:03:12] What? You sound like you could run a marathon right now. I'm going to be honest.

[00:03:15] Hmm. You could get up, drink a C4 and run a marathon.

[00:03:20] No. I get about a block and then I'd, and then I'd be wheezing.

[00:03:25] I did have one thing I wanted to note about the current MLB playoffs before we get into our infield grades.

[00:03:32] I know the Mariners and Astros have a decent rivalry, decent.

[00:03:37] There's been some flare ups. There's been some yapping, but nothing is rivaling the Dodgers and the Padres.

[00:03:42] That's what I want. That's what I want right there.

[00:03:45] I had such a blast watching those first two games and all the yapping that goes back and forth and the Dodger fans like chucking stuff at the Padres in the outfield and the Padres, you know, pimping around the base paths.

[00:04:00] The Dodgers won a game. The Padres won a game.

[00:04:01] That just seems like way too much fun.

[00:04:04] Like the fact they're so close together and so, and you can just feel the tension there I think is awesome.

[00:04:11] It's, it's not the same when it's 2000 miles separating Seattle and Houston.

[00:04:17] Not even close.

[00:04:19] No. And, and you can even further the lens in a little bit more.

[00:04:22] You want to go player by player.

[00:04:24] Yeah. There's fans, there's Dodgers fans throwing stuff, but you got Fernando Tatis Jr.

[00:04:29] sticking out his tongue and hip thrusting at all these Dodgers fans.

[00:04:33] Meanwhile, you've got, you've got Manny Machado who allegedly chucked a baseball at Dave Roberts while he said he's just tossing it to the bat boy.

[00:04:40] I mean, this whole series has been insane.

[00:04:42] They're like, there's going to be a fight before the end of it.

[00:04:44] First off.

[00:04:45] And second off.

[00:04:47] Oh, and then there's profile yesterday when he robbed the home run.

[00:04:50] And instead of showing the ball to his teammates, he essentially was backing up and nodding his head at all the fans.

[00:04:56] He just took the ball away from in the left field corner.

[00:04:59] Just like, uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

[00:05:03] Somebody tweeted out a video today.

[00:05:04] It's like live.

[00:05:05] Look at jerks and profile robbing Mookie Betts is Homer.

[00:05:07] And it's a video of Kent Murphy.

[00:05:08] And it's like, hey man, like, nice dinger.

[00:05:11] You know, you, uh, you gotta respect it.

[00:05:14] Just kidding, I do have it.

[00:05:16] It's like...

[00:05:19] Uh, yeah, this series has been sick.

[00:05:21] No, honestly, the whole Major League playoffs have been sick.

[00:05:24] This has been an awesome, awesome postseason so far.

[00:05:27] You know how many oh shit moments we've had so far?

[00:05:29] A lot.

[00:05:30] Kerry Carpenter today here on Monday when we're recording.

[00:05:33] Taking Emmanuel Classe deep.

[00:05:35] For a three-run homer.

[00:05:36] A guy who, by the way, allowed three earned runs all season inside a progressive field.

[00:05:41] Oh, inside a progressive field.

[00:05:43] Yeah.

[00:05:44] Yeah, five total.

[00:05:46] And the Royals won today.

[00:05:48] So all the American League series are even two.

[00:05:52] No sweeps.

[00:05:53] No sweeps are a good thing.

[00:05:55] I just...

[00:05:55] You know, it would be nice if the Dodgers and Padres was the World Series.

[00:05:59] I feel like that would be very energetic.

[00:06:01] I feel like that would be the most entertaining one we could have.

[00:06:03] Just because of the rivalry.

[00:06:05] Like, we're never going to get that.

[00:06:06] The fact that they have to play in a division series.

[00:06:08] Not even like the championship series.

[00:06:10] But it has to be the division series.

[00:06:12] That part kind of stinks.

[00:06:13] I would have been okay settling for like a middle ground of a seven-game NLCS between those two.

[00:06:19] That would have been nice.

[00:06:20] But unfortunately, we're not going to get that.

[00:06:22] No.

[00:06:23] So.

[00:06:24] It sucks.

[00:06:24] Maybe one day if Major League Baseball does some reseeding.

[00:06:27] Because they don't reseed.

[00:06:28] Maybe one day we'll see it.

[00:06:31] But when you have a division winner and a wild card winner from the same division, it's hard.

[00:06:35] Well, Major League Baseball on a money grab will probably dissolve the leagues one day.

[00:06:38] So.

[00:06:39] They could play in the World Series.

[00:06:40] Oh, that's true.

[00:06:41] Instead of keeping the leagues, they'll sell...

[00:06:44] They'll create new leagues and sell sponsorship titles for each league.

[00:06:49] So it's like the Progressive Insurance League and the Booking.com League.

[00:06:55] Although I will say, Yankees-Dodgers World Series would be pretty cool.

[00:06:59] Would be.

[00:06:59] What about Yankees-Padres?

[00:07:01] Ratings wouldn't be as good.

[00:07:02] It'd still be fun.

[00:07:03] Yeah, if you're talking about what would be best for the game of baseball, Yankees-Dodgers World Series would be amazing.

[00:07:09] Yeah, it would still be good for Yankees-Padres.

[00:07:11] Because one, it's still the Yankees.

[00:07:12] Two, you have a bunch of stars in the series.

[00:07:14] That would still be a good World Series.

[00:07:17] Now, we just mentioned a bunch about the Dodgers and Padres.

[00:07:22] Are the fan bases, as intense as they are, do they even match the other National League series?

[00:07:28] In terms of toxicity between the Phillies and the Mets?

[00:07:34] I'm going to say it.

[00:07:35] I think the Mets are the team I'm rooting for the most of all the teams remaining.

[00:07:40] Any, because of, you know, past family rooting interests or just because they're fun?

[00:07:49] It's both.

[00:07:50] They are genuinely very fun.

[00:07:52] And I know people that are going to say, oh, they kind of, you know, they're the feel-good team of this season.

[00:07:56] And they're like America's team in the postseason.

[00:07:58] And people are going to respond and say, well, they have the highest payroll.

[00:08:02] How can they be the sleeper team?

[00:08:03] Look, yes, they have the highest payroll.

[00:08:05] It doesn't mean that if you're just going to go off vibes that it's a really fun team.

[00:08:09] And you look at, they are not as good on paper as plenty of other teams in this postseason.

[00:08:15] Even if they've spent a lot of money.

[00:08:16] So, the fact they're doing this and doing it essentially without their best pitcher in Kodai Senga,

[00:08:23] who just came back but he only threw two innings.

[00:08:25] So, he's on a very, very limited workload.

[00:08:28] It's pretty impressive.

[00:08:29] They're doing it with guys like Sean Minaya, Luis Severino, Jose Quintana.

[00:08:33] Players that were not, like, well regarded when those signings happened this year.

[00:08:39] Merwin Luis Severino signed with the Mets for $14 million.

[00:08:42] And people are like, this is going to be a disaster.

[00:08:45] That has not been the case.

[00:08:46] This is supposed to be a rebuilding year for the Mets.

[00:08:48] They were supposed to take a step back and then contend next season.

[00:08:51] That was the whole pitch to trading Verlander and Scherzer at the deadline last year.

[00:08:55] So, you could eat some money, reset this year.

[00:08:59] And just so happens their reset team is significantly better than their quote-unquote all-in team from last year

[00:09:05] with all those older players.

[00:09:07] Turns out when you get some fun youth on your roster, fun things happen.

[00:09:10] And Vientos has hit some just incredible postseason home runs.

[00:09:14] And it's been great.

[00:09:15] Now they get to go back to Queens later this week.

[00:09:18] It's going to be a blast.

[00:09:19] I mean, just the differences, the difference of vibes in all the series is awesome.

[00:09:25] It doesn't feel stale at all in any of those series.

[00:09:28] It feels like there's new blood.

[00:09:30] I guess that helps when the Astros aren't in it.

[00:09:32] Literally just needed the Astros to not be included for it to feel like something new and something refreshing.

[00:09:38] I think the next step of that would be the Dodgers.

[00:09:40] But the Dodgers, it doesn't even feel like it's the same because Shohei's in the postseason finally.

[00:09:45] Which, by the way, he hits an absolute nuke of a home run and chucks as bad at 100 miles an hour

[00:09:51] before he goes and starts running the bases.

[00:09:54] Telling me we didn't want that?

[00:09:55] Yeah, I'd be okay with the Dodgers in the playoffs if Shohei Otani's playing there.

[00:09:59] And he's got to carry Mookie Betts anyway.

[00:10:02] Yeah, Dodgers fans, including a couple of our buddies that are Dodgers fans, are reeling about Mookie Betts these days

[00:10:09] because his postseason numbers have not been good in a long time now.

[00:10:14] And people are quick to judge on a short sample size in the postseason because every at-bat matters so much.

[00:10:19] It's the Aaron Judge thing again, too.

[00:10:21] Which, by the way, is happening in the Bronx.

[00:10:23] After, like, back-to-back times in which the Yankees have made the postseason, 22 and 24,

[00:10:28] each season's in which Judge is going to win the MVP and have unprecedented success in terms of his regular season output.

[00:10:36] People are already just ripping the guy come October.

[00:10:40] It's unreal.

[00:10:40] Not just ripping.

[00:10:42] They're making it a point to say he has the highest strikeout percentage of any hitter in postseason history.

[00:10:48] Like, we're talking about 120 years.

[00:10:52] It really is incredible.

[00:10:53] There is a fan base.

[00:10:55] I know New York is New York, but there is a fan base that will boo a guy who is playing like an otherworldly Hall of Famer

[00:11:03] because he's had a few bad at-bats.

[00:11:06] Yeah, now they've got to win two or three or they're done.

[00:11:08] And then they're definitely getting booed because they would get eliminated in the Bronx.

[00:11:11] Because they're going back to KC for two and then back to New York for one.

[00:11:15] Unless they lose each of the next two.

[00:11:18] Well, then we've got to tune in to WFM.

[00:11:20] Oh, yeah.

[00:11:22] I'm sure people take it rationally.

[00:11:24] Also, the one series now we haven't really mentioned.

[00:11:27] Actually, we did because we said Guardians and Tigers and Cary Carpenter going yard off of Class A.

[00:11:34] You know, as cool a story as the Tigers are, I've just got this vision in my head of Chris Larson doing the gritty every time the Tigers win a series.

[00:11:45] So there is a part of me.

[00:11:46] They haven't won yet.

[00:11:48] Well, they did win one series.

[00:11:49] They beat the Astros.

[00:11:51] Okay.

[00:11:52] Wildcard round, fluky Mickey Mouse series.

[00:11:54] Three-game series.

[00:11:56] I have bad images in my head of the idea of Mariners' ownership doing the gritty, seeing the Tigers and the Royals win postseason games.

[00:12:05] Now, let me float this to you, though.

[00:12:06] If we're not convinced that Chris Larson is like a huge baseball fan to begin with, would he really be watching Tigers Guardians?

[00:12:14] Is he watching every pitch?

[00:12:16] Probably not.

[00:12:17] Is he seeing that a team that's playoff roster has a combined $18 million in payroll have a chance to go to the ALCS?

[00:12:22] Oh, you better believe he's paying attention to that.

[00:12:27] Interesting.

[00:12:28] Yeah, no, he doesn't feel like the type that sits down and watches that.

[00:12:32] Like, Stanton, from what we know, it sounds like the only owner that would sit down and watch a series like that if he was interested.

[00:12:37] Well, he is genuinely a baseball fan.

[00:12:40] Yes, he is.

[00:12:41] Well, he wouldn't go to every game if he wasn't a baseball fan, but he absolutely does.

[00:12:45] He sits there and takes score on the front row every single game.

[00:12:49] So, like that, I don't doubt.

[00:12:51] Chris Larson, like you said, we're not convinced he exists.

[00:12:55] Haven't seen his face in person.

[00:12:57] So, would like to see that.

[00:13:00] For all we know, he's a fictional character.

[00:13:02] That's what we say.

[00:13:03] So, that's the Marine Layer Podcast postseason recap.

[00:13:07] Good stuff.

[00:13:08] Can't wait to keep watching.

[00:13:09] I'll be tuned in every night.

[00:13:35] Thank you.

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[00:14:06] Okay, let's get to our Mariners infield grades

[00:14:09] for the 2024 season.

[00:14:13] An overarching reaction

[00:14:15] to grading this infield, Lyle, is what?

[00:14:21] The nice way to put it would be

[00:14:23] extreme disappointment.

[00:14:25] The other end of the pendulum

[00:14:26] would be utter disaster.

[00:14:30] Realize there's an A-plus in here

[00:14:31] and we can still call it a disaster.

[00:14:33] Mm-hmm.

[00:14:35] Yeah, that is correct.

[00:14:37] And the guy that's going to get

[00:14:39] the A-plus grade

[00:14:40] is who we're leading off with.

[00:14:41] Which maybe that's the best way to do it.

[00:14:43] Start off with the highest of highs

[00:14:45] and then the roller coaster

[00:14:47] just slowly makes its way down the slope.

[00:14:49] Because people say

[00:14:50] we're not positive enough.

[00:14:51] But you know what?

[00:14:52] The positivity takes priority

[00:14:54] in this podcast.

[00:14:55] This is for you people.

[00:14:57] Guys, I feel like we are.

[00:15:00] Do people feel like we're that negative?

[00:15:02] Yes.

[00:15:02] Over the last couple months

[00:15:03] has it been that way?

[00:15:05] Sure.

[00:15:05] What else are we supposed to talk about?

[00:15:07] You know what would have happened

[00:15:08] if we had come on this podcast

[00:15:10] and said here's all your reasons

[00:15:11] to be optimistic

[00:15:12] as the Mariners blew a 10-game lead

[00:15:15] and were playing their way

[00:15:17] out of a playoff spot?

[00:15:18] If we're telling people

[00:15:19] to be optimistic

[00:15:19] while that's going on,

[00:15:20] who in the world

[00:15:21] is going to take us seriously?

[00:15:23] That's a good question.

[00:15:25] You know, I would try

[00:15:26] and explain that

[00:15:27] in some of our comment sections.

[00:15:29] But I don't think

[00:15:30] it would resonate.

[00:15:31] No.

[00:15:32] Unfortunately.

[00:15:33] So let's start off with Cal Raleigh.

[00:15:34] Let's find the beaming

[00:15:36] light of positivity.

[00:15:38] I gave Cal Raleigh

[00:15:39] an A-plus grade

[00:15:40] for this 2024 season.

[00:15:43] And on top of that,

[00:15:44] if it wasn't the case already,

[00:15:46] this 2024 season

[00:15:48] cemented Cal Raleigh

[00:15:49] as the best catcher

[00:15:50] in Mariners history.

[00:15:51] I think it's pretty clear now.

[00:15:54] It may have cemented him

[00:15:55] as the best catcher

[00:15:56] in all of baseball this year.

[00:15:57] It's not a foregone conclusion.

[00:15:58] There's a real argument for it.

[00:16:01] Yeah.

[00:16:02] Yeah, there is a real argument for it.

[00:16:03] I mean,

[00:16:04] you just think about

[00:16:05] he's tied for first

[00:16:06] in wins above replacement

[00:16:08] this year,

[00:16:09] hit the most home runs,

[00:16:10] he's tied for second

[00:16:11] in WRC+.

[00:16:12] Second in defensive runs saved.

[00:16:15] The combination

[00:16:15] of all of those things

[00:16:17] for Cal Raleigh

[00:16:19] I think gives him,

[00:16:20] it's like him,

[00:16:21] William Contreras,

[00:16:22] and Patrick Bailey

[00:16:24] was a really good defender

[00:16:25] but he couldn't really

[00:16:25] hit this year.

[00:16:27] Who else?

[00:16:28] Will Smith.

[00:16:30] On good years,

[00:16:31] guys like Will Smith

[00:16:32] and Adley Rushman

[00:16:32] are right in that mix

[00:16:33] but those guys

[00:16:34] didn't have the years

[00:16:35] that Cal and Contreras had.

[00:16:36] No.

[00:16:37] No, they didn't.

[00:16:38] And Cal had some things

[00:16:39] that,

[00:16:40] like for last year

[00:16:41] after his breakout

[00:16:43] 2022 season

[00:16:44] that he didn't do

[00:16:45] last year.

[00:16:45] Like his defense

[00:16:46] slipped by the metrics

[00:16:47] last year a little bit.

[00:16:48] Metrics didn't like him

[00:16:49] as much

[00:16:50] and what did Cal do

[00:16:51] this year.

[00:16:51] He came back.

[00:16:52] He was one of the best

[00:16:53] framers in all of baseball.

[00:16:55] He would constantly

[00:16:56] steal strikes

[00:16:57] for his pitchers.

[00:16:58] He was a massive part

[00:16:59] of this pitching staff

[00:17:01] exceeding the way it did.

[00:17:02] Yet it was Cal Raleigh

[00:17:04] who had the best ERA

[00:17:05] of any of the catchers

[00:17:06] on the Mariners roster.

[00:17:07] When Mariners pitchers

[00:17:08] were throwing to him

[00:17:09] it was better than

[00:17:10] Mitch Garver

[00:17:10] and it was better

[00:17:11] than Sebi Savala.

[00:17:12] By a pretty significant amount.

[00:17:14] That's pretty notable.

[00:17:16] And oh, by the way,

[00:17:17] he took the most

[00:17:18] played appearances

[00:17:18] of anyone on this roster.

[00:17:20] As a catcher.

[00:17:23] The fact he plays

[00:17:24] nearly every day

[00:17:25] for a catcher

[00:17:26] is amazing.

[00:17:27] You're talking about

[00:17:28] a guy that appeared

[00:17:29] in 154 games this year.

[00:17:30] He's a catcher.

[00:17:32] 154 games.

[00:17:33] And he was behind

[00:17:34] the plate for parts

[00:17:35] of 135 of them.

[00:17:37] Catchers don't do that.

[00:17:38] Cal Raleigh does.

[00:17:39] But most catchers

[00:17:40] do not.

[00:17:41] So when you factor in

[00:17:42] everything he did

[00:17:43] offensively

[00:17:43] and the fact he is

[00:17:44] posting every single day

[00:17:45] and is just

[00:17:46] tough as nails.

[00:17:49] It seems like

[00:17:50] no injury can bog

[00:17:51] this guy down.

[00:17:52] It's unbelievable.

[00:17:53] Yeah, he gets pay plus.

[00:17:55] You could also argue

[00:17:57] that he is the only

[00:17:58] member of this lineup

[00:18:00] Let me rephrase that.

[00:18:02] He is the only

[00:18:03] Mariners core player

[00:18:06] to not have a down season

[00:18:07] this year.

[00:18:08] Is that fair?

[00:18:09] The Mariners core

[00:18:10] in the lineup

[00:18:11] I would qualify

[00:18:12] as Julio.

[00:18:13] I would qualify

[00:18:14] as JP Crawford.

[00:18:17] Oh yeah,

[00:18:18] that list runs out

[00:18:19] quick when looking

[00:18:19] at the lineup

[00:18:20] because there's

[00:18:21] so much circulation

[00:18:22] in the lineup.

[00:18:23] So it's essentially

[00:18:24] Cal, Julio, and JP

[00:18:25] and Cal is the only one

[00:18:26] who didn't have a

[00:18:26] disappointing

[00:18:27] offensive season.

[00:18:28] Do you throw

[00:18:29] Randy into that now

[00:18:30] and what Randy did

[00:18:31] with the Mariners?

[00:18:33] Let him make it

[00:18:34] a year on the roster

[00:18:35] without getting traded

[00:18:35] for a salary dump

[00:18:37] and I'll say yes.

[00:18:39] Okay.

[00:18:40] That's fair.

[00:18:41] Yeah, I mean

[00:18:42] how many places

[00:18:43] can we go with Cal Raleigh?

[00:18:44] There's a ton.

[00:18:44] First off,

[00:18:46] if you actually want

[00:18:47] to just go basic,

[00:18:48] basic numbers here

[00:18:49] which I feel like

[00:18:49] we don't do that often

[00:18:51] how often do catchers

[00:18:52] go 30 and 100

[00:18:53] like Cal did?

[00:18:54] Because he did

[00:18:55] exactly that.

[00:18:56] You don't see it

[00:18:57] very often.

[00:18:57] He just did it.

[00:18:59] There are so few

[00:19:01] premier offensive

[00:19:02] catchers in the game

[00:19:03] these days.

[00:19:04] Cal Raleigh is one

[00:19:05] of them.

[00:19:05] And oh by the way

[00:19:06] if you're out there

[00:19:07] and you're a person

[00:19:08] that says Cal Raleigh's

[00:19:10] not that good

[00:19:11] because batting average?

[00:19:12] Congratulations,

[00:19:13] you just lost

[00:19:14] your baseball card.

[00:19:15] Right on the spot,

[00:19:16] right here,

[00:19:17] Marine Liar Pod

[00:19:18] has taken away

[00:19:18] your baseball card

[00:19:19] for the foreseeable future

[00:19:21] until you present

[00:19:22] a qualified argument

[00:19:23] for why you deserve it back.

[00:19:25] If you're reasoning

[00:19:26] for Cal Raleigh

[00:19:27] not being one of the game's

[00:19:28] best catchers is

[00:19:29] oh he doesn't hit

[00:19:29] for a high average.

[00:19:30] No.

[00:19:31] Get out of here with that.

[00:19:33] Just think of the progression

[00:19:34] of Cal Raleigh's career.

[00:19:36] Like plays part-time

[00:19:37] in 21,

[00:19:38] really struggles.

[00:19:39] Really struggles

[00:19:40] for the first month

[00:19:41] of 22.

[00:19:42] Essentially has to just

[00:19:43] figure it out

[00:19:44] in 2022

[00:19:45] after Tom Murphy

[00:19:47] gets hurt.

[00:19:48] And all Cal does

[00:19:49] in the remaining

[00:19:51] two,

[00:19:51] almost three,

[00:19:53] two years in change

[00:19:54] since then

[00:19:55] is only past

[00:19:57] Mike Piazza

[00:19:58] for the most home runs

[00:19:59] in a catcher's

[00:20:00] first four seasons.

[00:20:01] Mike Piazza

[00:20:03] arguably the greatest

[00:20:04] sitting catcher

[00:20:05] of all time.

[00:20:06] That's not nothing.

[00:20:07] Oh and sending

[00:20:08] the Mariners record

[00:20:08] too.

[00:20:11] Hall of Famer

[00:20:12] Mike Piazza

[00:20:12] and by the way

[00:20:13] that was a four-year sample

[00:20:14] that everybody

[00:20:15] kept using this year

[00:20:16] because that was the stat

[00:20:17] when Cal Raleigh hit

[00:20:18] two home runs

[00:20:20] in 2021.

[00:20:21] Two.

[00:20:22] So what Cal really did

[00:20:24] was in a three-year stretch

[00:20:25] and that makes it

[00:20:27] that much more impressive.

[00:20:28] Yeah it's amazing

[00:20:29] what he does.

[00:20:30] And we haven't even

[00:20:31] gotten to the defensive

[00:20:32] side of the ball yet.

[00:20:33] Just think about

[00:20:34] some more of these things

[00:20:35] like that he casually

[00:20:37] set this year.

[00:20:38] Like he had a good

[00:20:38] offensive season

[00:20:39] but he had the highest

[00:20:40] on base percentage

[00:20:41] of his career.

[00:20:42] Mentioned the defensive

[00:20:43] run saved.

[00:20:44] That's the most

[00:20:44] defensive run saved

[00:20:46] he's had in his career.

[00:20:47] He had the most homers,

[00:20:48] most RBI,

[00:20:49] let the Mariners

[00:20:49] in plate appearances

[00:20:50] and again for another year

[00:20:52] had to deal with

[00:20:53] an unreliable

[00:20:54] backup catcher

[00:20:54] that would not

[00:20:55] never guarantee

[00:20:56] him a day off

[00:20:56] and didn't matter.

[00:21:00] Just incredible

[00:21:00] that he's able

[00:21:02] to sit up there

[00:21:02] and do that.

[00:21:03] Oh and by the way

[00:21:04] his one weakness

[00:21:05] of hitting

[00:21:07] was him hitting

[00:21:08] right-handed.

[00:21:08] He had a flat swing,

[00:21:09] wasn't a whole lot

[00:21:10] of power.

[00:21:11] Oh he only

[00:21:12] more than doubled

[00:21:13] his former career

[00:21:14] total of hitting

[00:21:15] right-handed

[00:21:16] in home runs.

[00:21:17] He had seven

[00:21:17] entering this year

[00:21:18] and he had 13

[00:21:19] as a right-handed

[00:21:20] hitter this year.

[00:21:21] Someone,

[00:21:22] that is a dude

[00:21:22] who's just evolving.

[00:21:23] That is a dude

[00:21:24] who grinds.

[00:21:25] That is a dude

[00:21:25] who gets better

[00:21:26] and that is a dude

[00:21:27] who really lifts

[00:21:29] this franchise up.

[00:21:30] If the Mariners

[00:21:31] were to award a captain

[00:21:32] it would go to him

[00:21:33] because he embodies

[00:21:36] everything that

[00:21:37] you know

[00:21:38] the Mariners

[00:21:39] I would say

[00:21:40] probably lacked

[00:21:42] around the rest

[00:21:43] of the roster

[00:21:43] this year

[00:21:44] in terms of

[00:21:45] just figuring it out.

[00:21:47] Mm-hmm.

[00:21:48] I'm glad you brought

[00:21:49] up the switch hitting

[00:21:50] because it's probably

[00:21:51] not talked about enough.

[00:21:53] I know there was

[00:21:53] a point in the year

[00:21:54] where there was

[00:21:55] a lot of focus on

[00:21:56] oh yeah Cal's really

[00:21:57] taking a jump forward

[00:21:58] offensively.

[00:21:58] I feel like that was

[00:21:59] earlier in the year

[00:22:00] people were talking

[00:22:01] about that

[00:22:01] and by offensively

[00:22:02] I mean offensively

[00:22:04] from the right side.

[00:22:05] Cal Raleigh had

[00:22:06] about a 700 OPS

[00:22:08] against left-handed

[00:22:09] pitching this year

[00:22:10] as a right-handed

[00:22:11] hitter

[00:22:12] and that was about

[00:22:13] a 50-point jump

[00:22:14] from where he was

[00:22:16] just a season ago.

[00:22:17] Some of you may

[00:22:18] sit there and say

[00:22:18] well 700 OPS

[00:22:19] is nothing to write

[00:22:20] home about.

[00:22:21] Well it is when

[00:22:23] you're a switch

[00:22:23] hitting catcher

[00:22:24] and the fact that

[00:22:25] A you don't need

[00:22:25] to be taken out

[00:22:26] of the lineup

[00:22:27] to be a platoon

[00:22:28] hitting bat

[00:22:28] and B

[00:22:31] the fact that

[00:22:32] you are league average

[00:22:33] or slightly above

[00:22:34] league average

[00:22:34] against right-handed

[00:22:35] as a right-handed

[00:22:36] hitter because

[00:22:36] as a left-handed

[00:22:37] hitter you're

[00:22:38] that much better.

[00:22:39] The fact that

[00:22:40] Cal Raleigh

[00:22:41] is a 700 OPS guy

[00:22:43] now against right-handed

[00:22:44] as a right-handed

[00:22:45] hitter

[00:22:45] is a big deal

[00:22:46] because again

[00:22:48] like we mentioned

[00:22:49] for a while

[00:22:50] oh does he need

[00:22:50] to stop switch

[00:22:51] hitting?

[00:22:51] Do the Mariners

[00:22:52] need to figure

[00:22:52] something else out

[00:22:53] with him?

[00:22:53] Should he just

[00:22:53] stick at the

[00:22:54] left-handed spot?

[00:22:55] Well no

[00:22:56] because the worry

[00:22:56] was always going

[00:22:57] to be what would

[00:22:58] Cal's numbers look

[00:22:59] like as a lefty

[00:23:00] versus left-handed

[00:23:01] pitching rather than

[00:23:02] a righty versus

[00:23:02] left-handed pitching

[00:23:03] and now we've got

[00:23:03] our answer.

[00:23:04] He has been about

[00:23:06] a 700 OPS guy

[00:23:07] against left-handed

[00:23:08] pitching in the

[00:23:09] years 2024

[00:23:09] and that is a big

[00:23:10] deal.

[00:23:11] And we need to

[00:23:12] re-emphasize as well

[00:23:13] to our listeners

[00:23:15] that the bar for

[00:23:16] offensive ceiling

[00:23:17] for catchers is

[00:23:18] going to be lower

[00:23:19] than any other

[00:23:20] position on the

[00:23:20] field for the

[00:23:21] most part.

[00:23:22] Just because of

[00:23:22] the wear and

[00:23:23] tear that goes

[00:23:24] on behind the

[00:23:24] plate just for

[00:23:27] all the things

[00:23:27] you need to deal

[00:23:28] with with their

[00:23:29] pitching staff

[00:23:31] and shuffling it

[00:23:32] out of the

[00:23:32] lineup sometimes

[00:23:33] not getting

[00:23:33] consistent at

[00:23:34] bats all the

[00:23:35] time depending

[00:23:35] on what

[00:23:36] organization what

[00:23:37] roster how it's

[00:23:38] constructed all

[00:23:39] these sorts of

[00:23:39] things.

[00:23:40] So the bar is

[00:23:41] lower.

[00:23:42] So when Lyle

[00:23:42] says 700 OPS

[00:23:44] for a catcher

[00:23:45] someone would

[00:23:46] scoff if you

[00:23:46] think oh like a

[00:23:47] first baseman

[00:23:48] having a 700

[00:23:49] OPS that

[00:23:51] sucks but it's

[00:23:52] just different for

[00:23:53] catchers because

[00:23:54] catchers have so

[00:23:55] much more to

[00:23:56] deal with.

[00:23:57] Like again just

[00:23:58] think of all the

[00:23:59] things Cal

[00:23:59] Raleigh has to

[00:24:00] deal with.

[00:24:00] He has to manage

[00:24:00] two swings and

[00:24:02] this pitching staff

[00:24:03] and play every day

[00:24:04] by the way and

[00:24:05] catch most of

[00:24:06] these days.

[00:24:07] That's a lot to

[00:24:08] deal with on

[00:24:09] and to come out

[00:24:10] of that being

[00:24:12] one of the best

[00:24:13] offensive catchers

[00:24:14] in baseball

[00:24:16] after just

[00:24:17] essentially and

[00:24:18] now two years

[00:24:19] and change of

[00:24:21] not reinventing

[00:24:22] himself but just

[00:24:23] figuring it out at

[00:24:24] the big league

[00:24:24] level.

[00:24:24] It's just this is

[00:24:26] the sterling

[00:24:26] development of

[00:24:27] Jerry DePoto's

[00:24:29] tenure as

[00:24:30] Mariners

[00:24:31] president of

[00:24:31] baseball operations.

[00:24:33] This probably

[00:24:35] is the best job

[00:24:35] he's ever done

[00:24:36] with a player.

[00:24:37] I would say

[00:24:38] right because we

[00:24:39] know they're good

[00:24:40] at developing

[00:24:44] pitching but

[00:24:45] hitters we talked

[00:24:46] about in the

[00:24:47] mailbag Lyle they

[00:24:48] drafted a lot of

[00:24:49] hitters early in

[00:24:50] drafts that have

[00:24:51] not been very good

[00:24:52] but Cal's turning

[00:24:53] out to be

[00:24:54] Cal's turning out

[00:24:55] to be like a

[00:24:58] slam dunk as a

[00:24:59] third round pick.

[00:25:01] So if you didn't

[00:25:01] listen to our

[00:25:01] mailbag episode

[00:25:02] Friday TJ outlined

[00:25:04] that in the

[00:25:06] Jerry DePoto era

[00:25:06] they have drafted

[00:25:08] 13 bats in the

[00:25:09] first and second

[00:25:09] round.

[00:25:09] Now Cal Raleigh

[00:25:10] was a third

[00:25:11] rounder so he

[00:25:11] didn't quite fit

[00:25:12] into this category

[00:25:13] but 13 bats in

[00:25:16] the first and

[00:25:16] second round.

[00:25:17] The four guys

[00:25:18] that have made

[00:25:19] the majors are

[00:25:20] Kyle Lewis,

[00:25:22] Evan White,

[00:25:22] Zach DeLoach who

[00:25:23] wasn't even in the

[00:25:24] big leagues with

[00:25:24] the Mariners and

[00:25:25] then Tyler Locklear

[00:25:26] who just had a

[00:25:27] cup of coffee here

[00:25:27] this year and we

[00:25:28] still think long

[00:25:28] term should be

[00:25:29] pretty good but

[00:25:30] that's where

[00:25:31] they're at right

[00:25:31] now.

[00:25:32] And as TJ said

[00:25:32] you would think

[00:25:33] in a nine year

[00:25:34] stretch when you're

[00:25:35] drafting that many

[00:25:36] bats at least one

[00:25:37] of those guys

[00:25:38] should turn into

[00:25:38] a star.

[00:25:39] Hasn't happened.

[00:25:40] Now that doesn't

[00:25:41] account for Julio

[00:25:42] but.

[00:25:43] No it doesn't.

[00:25:44] This was just

[00:25:44] focused on drafting

[00:25:46] and developing of

[00:25:47] American born players

[00:25:48] right.

[00:25:48] Which is what this

[00:25:49] was.

[00:25:49] But the comparison

[00:25:51] we used is you

[00:25:52] flip it around to

[00:25:52] the pitching side

[00:25:53] where the Mariners

[00:25:53] drafted seven

[00:25:55] pitchers in the

[00:25:56] first two rounds

[00:25:57] since Jerry DePoto

[00:25:57] started and five

[00:25:58] of them are big

[00:25:59] leaguers or have

[00:26:01] been at some point.

[00:26:02] Yeah.

[00:26:02] Which would be Logan

[00:26:04] Gilbert George

[00:26:04] Kirby Emerson

[00:26:05] Hancock and then

[00:26:06] Brandon Williamson

[00:26:07] and Connor Phillips

[00:26:08] those are the guys

[00:26:09] as TJ you know

[00:26:11] I'm still battling

[00:26:12] the changing of

[00:26:13] seasons.

[00:26:14] I'm dying over

[00:26:14] here.

[00:26:15] Yeah.

[00:26:15] Anyway and that

[00:26:17] 700 OPS again

[00:26:18] won the bar for

[00:26:20] catchers offensively

[00:26:21] is lower like like

[00:26:22] you mentioned and

[00:26:23] to that 700 OPS

[00:26:24] is only from the

[00:26:25] right side as a

[00:26:26] hitter from the

[00:26:26] left side as a

[00:26:27] hitter.

[00:26:28] Cal was about a

[00:26:28] 770 OPS guy and

[00:26:30] all as a whole

[00:26:31] you're talking about

[00:26:32] 34 bombs and a

[00:26:33] 117 WRC plus to go

[00:26:35] along with a five

[00:26:35] and a half win

[00:26:36] season along with

[00:26:37] the things that

[00:26:38] can't even be

[00:26:38] qualified like how

[00:26:40] great he was at

[00:26:41] managing this pitching

[00:26:42] staff for as good

[00:26:43] as this rotation is

[00:26:44] we've talked about

[00:26:45] it a bunch.

[00:26:46] They're probably not

[00:26:47] this good without

[00:26:47] Cal Raleigh there

[00:26:48] without him behind

[00:26:49] the plate without

[00:26:50] him having such a

[00:26:51] feel on each guy

[00:26:51] in this rotation

[00:26:53] along with all

[00:26:53] those leadership

[00:26:54] qualities.

[00:26:55] Remember that

[00:26:55] story that came

[00:26:56] out a couple months

[00:26:57] ago about Cal and

[00:26:58] Brian Wu and the

[00:26:59] conversation that they

[00:27:00] had to have in the

[00:27:00] middle of the year

[00:27:01] of Cal saying

[00:27:02] look and it

[00:27:05] wasn't like for

[00:27:06] people that didn't

[00:27:07] read this story it

[00:27:08] wasn't saying Brian

[00:27:09] Wu was lazy or

[00:27:10] anything like that

[00:27:11] it was just Cal

[00:27:12] an established big

[00:27:13] leaguer being very

[00:27:14] weird very real

[00:27:15] with Brian Wu who

[00:27:16] had not thrown a

[00:27:18] ton of innings in

[00:27:18] the big leagues and

[00:27:19] said hey when you

[00:27:21] are a big leaguer

[00:27:21] there are certain

[00:27:23] things you have to

[00:27:23] get used to changing

[00:27:24] and have to be

[00:27:25] willing to change

[00:27:26] to stick in this

[00:27:27] league and to be

[00:27:28] successful in this

[00:27:29] league and to be

[00:27:29] dominant in this

[00:27:30] league and Wu

[00:27:31] from that point on

[00:27:32] said okay I hear

[00:27:33] you and it wasn't

[00:27:34] just I hear you

[00:27:35] like I listen to

[00:27:36] what you said it's

[00:27:37] I hear you and I

[00:27:38] am going to take

[00:27:38] action because from

[00:27:39] that moment on is

[00:27:41] when Brian Wu's

[00:27:41] season really

[00:27:42] changed he had no

[00:27:43] more injuries the

[00:27:44] rest of the year

[00:27:44] and that next start

[00:27:45] after was the

[00:27:46] seven shutout

[00:27:47] against the Phillies

[00:27:47] where he just

[00:27:48] rolled from there

[00:27:50] you wonder how

[00:27:51] Brian Wu's season

[00:27:52] would have been if

[00:27:52] Cal wasn't a

[00:27:53] Seattle Mariner

[00:27:54] and what the

[00:27:56] message would have

[00:27:56] been from somebody

[00:27:57] else if it would

[00:27:58] have landed as

[00:27:59] effectively and it's

[00:28:00] not just someone as

[00:28:01] young as Brian Wu

[00:28:02] you think of Logan

[00:28:03] Gilbert like Logan

[00:28:04] Gilbert's like yeah

[00:28:05] Cal essentially just

[00:28:06] like calls the game

[00:28:07] for me I don't have to

[00:28:08] worry about anything I

[00:28:09] don't shake him off I

[00:28:10] don't do anything if I

[00:28:10] shake him off he's

[00:28:11] gonna get really really

[00:28:12] pissed at me because

[00:28:13] he's like I I know

[00:28:14] this I study my ass

[00:28:16] off to get ready for

[00:28:18] this lineup like I know

[00:28:19] what we're doing here

[00:28:20] don't don't don't

[00:28:22] second guess me and it

[00:28:24] has been remarkably

[00:28:25] effective I really

[00:28:27] hope they pay him I

[00:28:28] know there is the

[00:28:29] there will be the

[00:28:31] worry that when Cal

[00:28:32] hits free agency he's

[00:28:33] gonna be 30 yeah he

[00:28:35] should be 30 when he's

[00:28:36] a free agent and so

[00:28:40] let's go at this from a

[00:28:41] serious perspective and

[00:28:42] a sarcastic perspective

[00:28:44] let's start with the

[00:28:45] sarcastic perspective

[00:28:46] that Lyle as you know

[00:28:47] paying players over the

[00:28:48] age of 30 is just not

[00:28:50] good baseball strategy

[00:28:51] good teams are not

[00:28:51] built that way paying

[00:28:52] money to good players

[00:28:54] is not a thing it's

[00:28:56] not not a smart

[00:28:56] strategy no how the

[00:28:58] Mariners for how the

[00:28:59] Mariners build build

[00:29:00] their roster but then

[00:29:01] there's gonna be the

[00:29:02] realistic look of it's

[00:29:04] how much money do we

[00:29:05] want to pay a 30 year

[00:29:06] old catcher who will

[00:29:07] have caught who plays

[00:29:08] like 140 games a year

[00:29:10] and is back there 120

[00:29:11] games a year how how

[00:29:13] well is he gonna hold

[00:29:14] up physically down the

[00:29:16] stretch are we gonna

[00:29:17] turn him into a first

[00:29:18] baseman oh if he's a

[00:29:19] first baseman then his

[00:29:21] offense needs to get

[00:29:22] better but can his

[00:29:23] offense get better his

[00:29:24] offense is good for a

[00:29:25] catcher but not quite as

[00:29:26] good as a for a first

[00:29:27] baseman so there are all

[00:29:28] these things that come

[00:29:29] that seep in that seep

[00:29:32] into the thought process

[00:29:33] of extending him oh and

[00:29:35] then on top of that is

[00:29:36] agent of Scott Boris

[00:29:38] if Cal's gonna hit 30

[00:29:39] home runs a year and be a

[00:29:40] 120 WRC plus hitter isn't

[00:29:42] that fine for a first

[00:29:43] baseman it's fine but

[00:29:44] will he do that at age

[00:29:45] 30 he's not catching

[00:29:47] anymore why not he can

[00:29:49] be and he'd play

[00:29:50] probably more games at

[00:29:51] DH too at that point

[00:29:52] he'd be a first

[00:29:53] baseman slash DH right

[00:29:54] so I think he he

[00:29:57] could but there

[00:30:00] wouldn't he would want

[00:30:01] I would say catcher

[00:30:02] rate they would offer

[00:30:03] him DH rate and he'd

[00:30:05] probably hate that

[00:30:07] probably and once the

[00:30:09] Mariners make up their

[00:30:09] mind on what kind of

[00:30:10] money they're offering

[00:30:11] there's not really any

[00:30:12] negotiating so if Cal

[00:30:13] doesn't like it he's

[00:30:14] not signing because

[00:30:15] the Mariners do not

[00:30:17] negotiate they don't get

[00:30:18] bidding wars how's

[00:30:19] that worked out for him

[00:30:21] well Marcus Marcus

[00:30:23] Simeon just called he

[00:30:24] said man I miss my

[00:30:26] opportunity to be in

[00:30:26] Seattle love coming

[00:30:28] there every day every

[00:30:29] every year twice a year

[00:30:31] what's this quote from

[00:30:32] Marcus Simeon we can

[00:30:33] put this on a quote

[00:30:33] card I love my time in

[00:30:35] Seattle every time I

[00:30:36] visit on the road and

[00:30:37] I would have signed in a

[00:30:38] heartbeat had I been

[00:30:39] given fair money oh

[00:30:40] that's funny very real

[00:30:42] quote courtesy courtesy of

[00:30:44] the Marine layer pod oh

[00:30:45] wait Joe Hayotani just

[00:30:47] tweeted something

[00:30:47] something very similar I

[00:30:50] would have taken if the

[00:30:51] Mariners would have gone

[00:30:52] one year for 69 million

[00:30:54] dollars I would have

[00:30:55] signed in Seattle

[00:30:56] instantaneously for the

[00:30:57] 2024 season but they

[00:30:59] refused to move off of

[00:31:00] 65 million dollars so I

[00:31:03] had to tell them no

[00:31:07] never should have even

[00:31:08] been one year you should

[00:31:09] have paid him every

[00:31:10] single penny he asked

[00:31:11] for no but that's sorry I

[00:31:12] forgot sorry I got

[00:31:14] sidetracked for a second

[00:31:14] there I started to get

[00:31:15] into fan mode thinking

[00:31:17] about how great show hey

[00:31:18] would have been but then

[00:31:19] I had to get back into

[00:31:20] reality mode back into

[00:31:21] baseball mode and

[00:31:22] remember TJ that paying a

[00:31:24] guy like show hey who's

[00:31:25] gonna be 30 not a smart

[00:31:26] strategy no it's not

[00:31:28] because he's gonna get

[00:31:28] old and you're gonna have

[00:31:29] to pay him a lot of money

[00:31:30] yeah no you just can't do

[00:31:31] that no well wasn't all

[00:31:35] that positivity fun now we

[00:31:37] can move around to the

[00:31:38] rest of the infield

[00:31:39] no we made it 30 minutes

[00:31:44] of positivity well all I

[00:31:47] have to say folks is buckle

[00:31:50] up yeah listen we gave people

[00:31:54] half the episode we were

[00:31:55] positive half the episode look

[00:31:58] at us he said we're not

[00:32:00] positive we are a lot of

[00:32:02] people well which is crazy

[00:32:03] because again I think we

[00:32:05] actually do a decent job of

[00:32:06] it but what do we know okay so

[00:32:08] then let's go to the most

[00:32:09] one of the most positive

[00:32:10] positions on the field Lyle

[00:32:11] first base let's do it this

[00:32:15] is a weird grade because

[00:32:16] this feels like a position

[00:32:19] where you have to more give

[00:32:20] a position grade rather than

[00:32:22] a player grade because there

[00:32:24] was such a turnstile of

[00:32:25] players at first base all

[00:32:27] year obviously Ty France had

[00:32:28] the majority of it number two

[00:32:30] would be Justin Turner but if

[00:32:32] I was gonna give the first

[00:32:33] base position grade as a

[00:32:35] whole it's probably a C- and

[00:32:38] most of that has to do with

[00:32:39] Ty France look it was after

[00:32:42] a lot of hope of him going

[00:32:43] to driveline and seemingly

[00:32:46] fixing a lot of things when

[00:32:47] you looked at a lot of his

[00:32:48] peripherals in April despite

[00:32:49] him not getting off to just

[00:32:51] basic numbers numbers wise the

[00:32:52] hottest start saying oh a

[00:32:55] lot of this looks like it's

[00:32:56] gonna fix itself and Ty could

[00:32:57] have a really strong year and

[00:32:58] then paired with the May he

[00:32:59] had we were like oh this is

[00:33:01] this is Ty France figuring

[00:33:03] things out again didn't

[00:33:05] happen 662 OPS 223 average for

[00:33:09] the year he put up negative

[00:33:10] wins above replacement for the

[00:33:11] season as a whole he was let

[00:33:12] go by the Mariners before the

[00:33:13] trade deadline in late July

[00:33:14] and oh by the way defensively

[00:33:17] he had negative 11 outs above

[00:33:20] average for the year with the

[00:33:21] Mariners he had negative five

[00:33:22] defensive runs saved pretty

[00:33:23] disastrous here the only other

[00:33:27] thing I can add to Ty France is

[00:33:28] that he had two total savant

[00:33:30] bubbles above 50th percentile

[00:33:34] it's a lot of blue so yeah he

[00:33:36] didn't really do much well in

[00:33:38] 2024 remember when we were

[00:33:39] talking about how fast he was in

[00:33:40] spring training yeah not fast

[00:33:46] it did not did not stick for very

[00:33:49] long it's disappointing because

[00:33:50] the May May offered a lot of

[00:33:52] hope and optimism but he just he

[00:33:55] fell off a cliff in June and July

[00:33:57] and even if he wasn't the biggest

[00:33:59] culprit of the Mariners lineup

[00:34:01] struggles as we talked about when

[00:34:03] he got DFA'd it didn't feel like

[00:34:06] he should be the main person

[00:34:08] everyone's pointing their finger

[00:34:09] at but it made the most sense

[00:34:11] based off of position and the

[00:34:14] value he brought to the team in

[00:34:16] ways other than hitting and as we

[00:34:18] can see right now I mean he's got

[00:34:20] to find something in a swing in

[00:34:22] Cincinnati because he's not playing

[00:34:26] like a big leaguer frankly that sucks

[00:34:28] to say but he looks like a player

[00:34:30] should probably be in AAA next year

[00:34:32] at some point if he doesn't figure

[00:34:34] it out so that's something he's

[00:34:36] gonna have to figure out but

[00:34:37] luckily Lyle a week later brought

[00:34:39] in Justin Turner who carries a lot

[00:34:43] of this grade he is the only reason

[00:34:45] this grade is not like a D because

[00:34:48] Justin Turner came in and gave you

[00:34:52] everything you could ask for a 126

[00:34:54] WRC plus walking 10% of the time an OPS

[00:34:59] of over 700 reaching base 36% of the

[00:35:04] time not striking out it was a breath

[00:35:07] really a breath of fresh air and the

[00:35:09] impact he made both in the lineup with

[00:35:12] his production swinging the bat and his

[00:35:15] production of just being a clubhouse

[00:35:17] leader I mean it's just invaluable you

[00:35:20] could just hear all of the all of the

[00:35:23] sort of like rub off factor of him of

[00:35:26] how him you know in his approach helped

[00:35:29] the rest of this lineup I mean just just

[00:35:31] just undeniably valuable even at age 39

[00:35:35] and someone they probably needed in April

[00:35:37] but wasn't available

[00:35:39] his OPS with the Mariners was 766 that's a

[00:35:43] really good year especially in today's

[00:35:45] day and age offensively I hate that

[00:35:47] fan graphs doesn't always split up

[00:35:50] production team by team when you look

[00:35:53] for a player for a season as a whole

[00:35:55] when they get traded but if you want to

[00:35:56] use baseball reference where they use

[00:35:58] OPS plus instead of WRC plus you can

[00:36:00] split it up and Turner's OPS plus with

[00:36:02] the Mariners was 128 he was nearly 30%

[00:36:05] above average in the time that he spent

[00:36:08] here over the final two months that was

[00:36:10] a massive step forward from what

[00:36:12] Mariners first baseman were doing the

[00:36:15] the first half of 2024 and a lot of

[00:36:17] 2023 as well because Ty France didn't

[00:36:19] have a great 23 so what Justin Turner

[00:36:21] did was pretty invaluable for the team

[00:36:23] and we can get into some of the

[00:36:24] leadership clubhouse stuff here in a

[00:36:26] minute but even just his own

[00:36:28] production look the guy doesn't really

[00:36:30] have much raw power left but there's a

[00:36:32] lot about his profile that's actually

[00:36:34] sustainable he drew walks didn't

[00:36:36] strikeout good approach found a way to

[00:36:39] be productive offensively if even if it

[00:36:42] wasn't through a bunch of long balls

[00:36:43] anymore you think that's not valuable

[00:36:45] oh it's valuable and it's just what

[00:36:47] this lineup needed because it had too

[00:36:49] much focus otherwise of some some guys

[00:36:54] chase some didn't the Mariners overall

[00:36:55] as a team didn't chase a whole ton but

[00:36:57] when they swung they weren't making a

[00:36:59] lot of contact and Justin Turner makes a

[00:37:00] lot of contact when he swings and just

[00:37:02] gave the Mariners a chance it's like his

[00:37:05] last walk-off in the final series against

[00:37:07] the A's where you know a lot of other

[00:37:10] Mariners would have struck out in that

[00:37:12] moment he put a ball in play and it

[00:37:13] ended up being a walk-off the fielder's

[00:37:15] choice helps so then there's the the

[00:37:19] leadership part which I think it tells

[00:37:22] you everything you need to know that he

[00:37:24] said he's willing to sign back with

[00:37:25] Seattle if they offer him a fair deal and

[00:37:28] come back and play first base or DH a

[00:37:30] little bit or be a bench bat however

[00:37:33] they decide it like there he's not going

[00:37:35] to cost what he was making this year

[00:37:37] which was 13 million dollars I'm guessing

[00:37:40] he would cost somewhere like three to

[00:37:42] four million dollars and since it

[00:37:44] wouldn't have to be a multi-year deal

[00:37:46] this would maybe be something the

[00:37:47] Mariners would actually consider if they

[00:37:49] thought it was valuable enough for him

[00:37:51] to bring back you and I are steadfast in

[00:37:53] the boat that they need an established

[00:37:55] proven player at first base

[00:37:58] unfortunately doesn't feel like that is

[00:38:00] their strategy going for next season

[00:38:02] we would like to be proven otherwise

[00:38:03] but until proven otherwise it seems like

[00:38:07] Justin Turner has a real shot of being

[00:38:09] the Mariners right-handed hitting part

[00:38:12] of first base next year

[00:38:14] we may not want to sign players that are

[00:38:16] in their 30s but man once they hit 40

[00:38:18] oh let's back up the bring trucks this

[00:38:21] is how we do this is how we do winning

[00:38:23] business in C-Town baby no I mean that's

[00:38:27] that's no knock at Justin Turner that is

[00:38:29] just another knock at the alleged

[00:38:31] philosophy of this franchise that says

[00:38:33] signing really really good players who

[00:38:35] happen to hit free agency is a bad

[00:38:36] strategy oh interesting anyway strategy

[00:38:41] been working what you wouldn't call

[00:38:45] missing the playoffs 22 of 23 years of

[00:38:47] success that's weird or if you even

[00:38:50] once well if you even just want to say

[00:38:52] eight of nine years in this regime I

[00:38:53] don't know I'd say that's pretty

[00:38:55] successful

[00:38:57] got a fair point okay look again none

[00:39:00] of that is supposed to be a knock on

[00:39:01] Justin Turner because truthfully if

[00:39:03] it's up to me I would love to bring

[00:39:05] Justin Turner back next year as a bench

[00:39:08] player if Justin Turner is going to be

[00:39:10] a first baseman slash dh off the bench

[00:39:13] plays a couple times a week you can play

[00:39:14] him against the lefties get some guys

[00:39:17] off their feet it's probably not going to

[00:39:19] cost more than five or six million

[00:39:20] bucks yeah that'd be a great signing

[00:39:23] especially because when you look at

[00:39:25] what Carlos Santana did for this team in

[00:39:27] 2022 and what Justin Turner did for

[00:39:29] this team the second half of 2024 you

[00:39:31] can tell it made a difference you

[00:39:33] already mentioned it but just how much

[00:39:34] guys raved about Justin Turner being

[00:39:37] able to bring philosophies and his

[00:39:39] and not like in his two cents and his

[00:39:41] wisdom to a team that really needed it

[00:39:44] with a lot of young players was you

[00:39:47] could tell how much it helped it's not

[00:39:48] a coincidence the offense changed in

[00:39:50] the final five six weeks of the year

[00:39:51] when he was around he helped a lot of

[00:39:53] guys so if he's going to be around

[00:39:55] again next year again not as an everyday

[00:39:57] guy not as a guy you should just be

[00:39:59] penciling in under every single

[00:40:00] circumstance but if you're going to

[00:40:02] bring him in to play a role yeah sign

[00:40:04] me right up and if you need something

[00:40:07] else to pitch you think of just what

[00:40:10] happened when the veteran leaders have

[00:40:11] left this Mariners team what has happened

[00:40:13] to the core the well I think that came

[00:40:17] out this year was that they felt like

[00:40:19] they were lacking that veteran presence

[00:40:22] same thing last year through August through

[00:40:25] the start of August it was the same

[00:40:27] story it was man this team could really

[00:40:29] use Carlos Santana right now to help get

[00:40:34] guys heads on straight and you could say

[00:40:37] the same thing this year with Justin

[00:40:38] Turner it not like outside of all the

[00:40:41] offensive stuff and and helping with

[00:40:43] hitting not like not a coincidence when

[00:40:45] you have that guy in the clubhouse to

[00:40:47] help turn things around oh I don't know

[00:40:49] TJ I would say vibes wise and even away

[00:40:52] from the field the fact of not having a

[00:40:54] veteran last year actually did dividends

[00:40:55] I mean let's just let's just roll through

[00:40:57] some events Jerry Kellner kicks a cooler

[00:40:59] breaks his foot George Kirby gets in a war

[00:41:03] with his manager to the public Cal

[00:41:06] Raleigh comes out and says how frustrated

[00:41:08] he is with the organization because they

[00:41:09] won't spend and then they have the 54%

[00:41:11] comments in the presser I don't know it

[00:41:12] feels like not having a veteran last year

[00:41:14] didn't matter that just sounds like a

[00:41:16] normal day in the Seattle Mariners land

[00:41:21] I think they could use a veteran they need

[00:41:23] they could they could they need a veteran

[00:41:25] it should be him it should be someone that

[00:41:27] has already been on this team who is

[00:41:28] actually loved in many of the players like

[00:41:31] resonate with or if for whatever reason

[00:41:34] Turner gets some offer that he can't

[00:41:36] turn down with another team then bring

[00:41:39] Carlos Santana back because he's gonna be

[00:41:41] a free agent that would be option number

[00:41:43] two I'd say and also to the Mariners for an

[00:41:45] office if you're listening signing another

[00:41:46] version of AJ Pollock to to be that is not

[00:41:50] a thing if the player is not actually good no

[00:41:52] one's gonna listen to him correct I mean

[00:41:57] did people listen to Colton Wong last year I

[00:41:59] don't think so yeah like near that he was

[00:42:02] near vet status I don't know if he was all

[00:42:05] the way there yet honestly take the two

[00:42:09] Mitch's this year yeah like Hanager's been a

[00:42:13] quiet lead by example guy most of his

[00:42:15] career but did you hear a ton of stories

[00:42:18] this year about the young players learning

[00:42:20] from Garver and Hanager the way they did

[00:42:21] Turner well not really because those guys

[00:42:23] didn't perform no and it would help a lot

[00:42:26] more if like if those guys did it within you

[00:42:30] know then there wouldn't be this weight on

[00:42:31] Justin Turner but it just feels like for a

[00:42:35] veteran that would that would be the move

[00:42:37] now the idea of a platoon first base pisses

[00:42:41] me off mm-hmm all respect to Luke Raley and

[00:42:44] Justin Turner that idea pisses me off but

[00:42:46] that seems more like reality that we're

[00:42:50] unfortunately just gonna have to accept

[00:42:52] because we don't manage the roster but if

[00:42:54] you want us to manage the roster please go

[00:42:55] subscribe to our YouTube and follow of our

[00:42:58] social channels comment like follow all

[00:43:01] these things because if we get enough of

[00:43:03] you then we can buy the team mm-hmm and

[00:43:06] then you can have input on decisions you

[00:43:08] think it's not possible guys while he

[00:43:10] might not own a team mr. Beast has the

[00:43:12] net worth to own a team if every single

[00:43:15] one of you helps the cause hits that

[00:43:17] subscribe button that is how we can

[00:43:19] eventually buy this team and you have got

[00:43:22] our you have got our word on every episode

[00:43:25] we get there we will put a bid into the

[00:43:27] Seattle Mariners franchise but we can't

[00:43:29] do it unless you guys help us out let's

[00:43:32] get to our next position second base TJ I

[00:43:39] have a stat for you let's just lead it

[00:43:40] off with this the Mariners wanted to take

[00:43:43] a step forward at second base this year so

[00:43:45] they made an acquisition to do so and the

[00:43:47] guy they acquired had the highest WRC plus

[00:43:50] of any Mariners second baseman in six

[00:43:53] years since Robinson Cano in 2018 I call

[00:43:58] that a win highest WRC plus at a starting

[00:44:01] position in six years talk about a talk

[00:44:04] about just an a level trade I would say

[00:44:07] right so that Jorge Polanco gets an a

[00:44:11] plus then right well his WRC plus was 94 so

[00:44:17] no well what wait what no or maybe no

[00:44:24] sorry you know what I think his OPS plus

[00:44:26] was 94 and his WRC plus was 92 92 yeah I

[00:44:30] have a I have a I have a vibe stat on

[00:44:32] Jorge Polanco super nice guy you know you

[00:44:35] got to talk to him a couple times I don't

[00:44:36] think I got to over the course of this

[00:44:38] season he's the oldest looking 30 year

[00:44:40] old I've ever seen play in the field does

[00:44:44] he not look extremely old he does and I

[00:44:47] think a lot of it was because he was

[00:44:48] really really banged up this year now

[00:44:50] he's never really been a defender to

[00:44:52] begin with but it was taken to another

[00:44:54] level this year because he was battling

[00:44:55] injuries and he is not naturally a good

[00:44:57] defender do you want another fun fact can

[00:45:00] you believe the Mariners gave a 10-year

[00:45:01] contract to someone who's who was a year

[00:45:03] older than Jorge Polanco playing the same

[00:45:05] position when he signed well that's not a

[00:45:08] smart strategy wait isn't that the isn't

[00:45:12] that isn't said guy the same guy who has

[00:45:16] the highest WRC plus of any Mariners bat in

[00:45:19] the last eight years or sorry in the last

[00:45:20] six years yes no that's funny actually you

[00:45:26] could use the stat of the last eight

[00:45:28] years too because his 2016 was his best

[00:45:30] season in Seattle so what you're telling

[00:45:33] me is 10-year 310 for Jorge Polanco

[00:45:41] Intriguing considerate listen he had a

[00:45:44] better second half you know 114 WRC

[00:45:46] plus in the second half a lot of it was

[00:45:48] aided by July because he had a good

[00:45:49] month of July he did have a better second

[00:45:51] half than first half but overall this is

[00:45:56] just not what the Mariners traded for and

[00:45:58] it sucks because again I've talked about it

[00:45:59] all year I really really like Polo really

[00:46:01] really good dude but baseball wise this

[00:46:05] is not what they traded for we were

[00:46:08] talking at the time of the trade like he

[00:46:10] had the chance to be the second best

[00:46:11] offensive player on this roster behind

[00:46:13] Julio well that didn't happen that didn't

[00:46:16] happen at all and it was pretty it was

[00:46:18] pretty evident early right there was hope

[00:46:21] that he was going to turn it around maybe

[00:46:23] he'd have a tough first month and then he

[00:46:25] could figure some things out because we

[00:46:26] talked about early on that the fact he

[00:46:29] was in one organization his entire career

[00:46:32] and he had to change scenery pretty late

[00:46:35] into the offseason and a new drive to work

[00:46:37] and a new team and a new clubhouse like

[00:46:39] that's hard that's something you can't

[00:46:40] quantify but that's hard so I wondered

[00:46:42] you know give him six weeks see what he

[00:46:45] does after that and it just didn't stick

[00:46:47] even when he started to get hotter in

[00:46:49] the second half he couldn't sustain it long

[00:46:51] enough and it was all almost all buoyed by

[00:46:54] July like he had a good second half as you

[00:46:57] mentioned like 114 in the second half that's

[00:46:59] not nothing but most of that was held up

[00:47:02] by July if you just look at like the

[00:47:05] stretch run of the season one of the guys

[00:47:07] not contributing in September was Jorge

[00:47:09] Polanco and an 81 WRC plus and we talk

[00:47:12] about age and looking old that was the

[00:47:15] month where it really started hitting like

[00:47:17] the injuries were catching up to him the

[00:47:19] bat had run out of gas and when we did our

[00:47:23] midseason evaluations this year the main

[00:47:26] thing we looked at with Jorge Polanco is

[00:47:29] his ability to hit fastballs when you get

[00:47:31] older it's hard to keep your bat speed up

[00:47:32] to hit heat did rebound a little bit but

[00:47:36] this still ended up being the worst year of

[00:47:38] the last four for Jorge Polanco in his

[00:47:40] quote-unquote prime from 27 to 30 which

[00:47:44] is a hitters prime of hitting against

[00:47:47] fastballs by far the lowest it's not a

[00:47:48] good sign as soon as you hit 30 and then

[00:47:51] it contributed into some other factors

[00:47:53] lie which I thought were really interesting

[00:47:54] his we're gonna dive in and get it like a

[00:47:57] little more specific in his last year in

[00:48:00] Minnesota and even his last few years he did

[00:48:05] quite a bit of damage against change-ups

[00:48:08] which I would say was a control like he

[00:48:14] was on time for the most part he could read

[00:48:16] fastballs he felt comfortable therefore

[00:48:18] when a change-up came along he was able to

[00:48:21] adjust properly well his ability to hit

[00:48:23] change-ups this year I mean just fell off a

[00:48:25] planet completely and I think it

[00:48:28] contributed that he had to guess with

[00:48:30] fastballs more and when he was guessing

[00:48:32] he had less of an idea of what to do at

[00:48:35] the plate and it leaked into the rest of

[00:48:38] his offense and then here we sit at the end

[00:48:39] of the year and the Mariners have a 92

[00:48:41] WRC plus at second base expecting a 110

[00:48:44] and that's a lot of offense offensive

[00:48:46] production that was left on the table

[00:48:48] that they couldn't get back mm-hmm it's

[00:48:52] tough it's really really tough I swear

[00:48:56] this second base curse may never end remember

[00:48:58] what we said at the time of this trade by

[00:49:00] the way we said because this was so far and

[00:49:03] away the most established player they'd

[00:49:05] acquired to play second base and all the

[00:49:07] years of trying in the last handful of

[00:49:09] seasons we said if this trade doesn't work

[00:49:11] nothing will because we'll be broken we

[00:49:13] were like this trade is sound it makes

[00:49:17] sense it's for a player that has real

[00:49:19] thump in a lineup if this doesn't work

[00:49:22] we're broken well I would say to you

[00:49:24] sitting here at the end of 2024 yeah we

[00:49:26] are broken and that's a good that's a

[00:49:29] good way to summarize it and by the way I

[00:49:33] know you're talking about his age and

[00:49:35] maybe this is it for him it would be

[00:49:37] really unfortunate maybe this is just who

[00:49:39] he is as a player going forward however

[00:49:42] I will note while he only had about a

[00:49:44] 600 OPS at home it was closer to 700 on

[00:49:48] the road this year factoring all the

[00:49:49] injuries factoring the down year etc well

[00:49:54] if the Mariners don't pick up this club

[00:49:55] option for 2025 I'll put it out there right

[00:49:57] now he's going somewhere else and having

[00:49:59] a Tao type season yeah so he's getting

[00:50:03] back over 800 oh yeah at the very least

[00:50:06] he'll be a 110 WRC plus hitter if not

[00:50:08] more now my question to you is do you

[00:50:11] think he would be worth his 12 million

[00:50:13] dollar price tag for next season in

[00:50:15] Seattle so I floated with the idea I feel

[00:50:22] like I go back and forth on it a lot in a

[00:50:25] perfect world if you could decline it and

[00:50:29] he'd still be willing to sign back here in

[00:50:31] free agency if he doesn't like what the

[00:50:33] market says about him for six or seven

[00:50:36] million dollars yeah I'm open to that

[00:50:41] tougher at 12 though I will say who in the

[00:50:45] world do they plan to replace him with

[00:50:47] because if you look up and down the list of

[00:50:49] free agent second baseman this winter it is

[00:50:51] not pretty and unless you're gonna go trade

[00:50:53] for Brandon Lau then you're saying that

[00:50:56] you're probably gonna roll out some

[00:50:58] combination of Ryan Bliss Dylan Moore and

[00:51:01] when he's ready Cole Young in 2025 and for a

[00:51:03] team that tries to sell its fan base on that

[00:51:05] they're competing for a World Series running

[00:51:08] out that group doesn't really say that as

[00:51:10] much as we like all those guys right I

[00:51:13] would not do 12 million dollars so you

[00:51:16] think about it in the monetary sense of oh

[00:51:18] he only needs to be worth one and a half his

[00:51:20] defense will not let him get to a win and a

[00:51:23] half he needs to have an unreal offensive

[00:51:24] season to get to a win and a half which

[00:51:27] based on what we have seen him doing in T-Mobile

[00:51:30] Park this year I have a hard time seeing him

[00:51:33] do that in a Mariners uniform so I think you

[00:51:36] have to decline it especially if the payroll

[00:51:38] is not going up I feel like you don't have

[00:51:40] you don't have a choice to spend that 12

[00:51:42] million dollars on potentially negative

[00:51:45] value because they're already gonna pay a

[00:51:48] combined 27 million dollars Lyle for

[00:51:51] probably more negative war next year and

[00:51:53] Mitch Hanager and Mitch Garver so you can't

[00:51:56] add on to that with more potentially if Polo

[00:52:00] really doesn't have that kind of juice

[00:52:02] anymore so let me turn it back around to

[00:52:05] you who's playing second base next year who

[00:52:07] do you want to play second base next year

[00:52:12] well it seems like they just should resign

[00:52:14] Abe I guess

[00:52:18] right now you know what you know what

[00:52:21] fine okay you know what here here let me

[00:52:24] let's let's just prep this right here right

[00:52:26] here okay if the Mariners don't bring back

[00:52:29] Jorge Polanco for the 2025 Mariners season I

[00:52:32] finally concur that the Mariners should bring

[00:52:35] back Abraham Toro you know what we need

[00:52:40] have you seen that put put you tweet that

[00:52:42] out we can tweet that out with the show okay

[00:52:45] you know what we need have you seen some of

[00:52:48] these out of context Twitter accounts

[00:52:50] either for shows or you know certain

[00:52:53] podcasts college football college football

[00:52:55] that's the big one but Jared Karabas section

[00:52:58] 10 there is a Twitter account out there

[00:53:00] that's section 10 out of context and it's

[00:53:02] got a decent following just from funny

[00:53:04] clips that people tweet out from the show

[00:53:07] maybe somebody out there if they're a big

[00:53:09] enough fan of us and have the time or

[00:53:11] dedication they should start a marine

[00:53:12] layer pod out of context account and just

[00:53:14] tweet out some of the funny crazy things

[00:53:16] that we say starting with TJ saying the

[00:53:19] Mariners need to bring back Abe at this

[00:53:22] point Lyle it's either you get marginal

[00:53:25] value at 30 and overpay or you're relying

[00:53:29] on minor leaguers or well Abe is kind of a

[00:53:33] minor leaguer at this point no he is yeah

[00:53:37] well I you know what I think this is me

[00:53:40] accepting the Mariners are going to have a

[00:53:41] bad second base position again next year

[00:53:44] can they trade for Brandon Lyle I'm sure

[00:53:47] they could are they going to hmm yeah

[00:53:51] that's a good question I would say

[00:53:53] unlikely it'd be nice they could but I'm

[00:53:59] not banking the Mariners really do anything

[00:54:01] Lyle because then my expectations are

[00:54:03] going to get let down and they never

[00:54:04] listen to us anyway so if the guys they

[00:54:08] run out at second base in 2025 honestly

[00:54:11] I'll throw four guys into this some form of

[00:54:15] Ryan Bliss Dylan Moore Leo Rivas and then

[00:54:19] when he's ready Cole Young can those guys

[00:54:22] combine for a 95 WRC plus and this is Cole

[00:54:26] Young in his first year not Cole Young at

[00:54:28] 26 27 this is Cole Young they know but are we

[00:54:31] guaranteeing Jorge Polanco has a 95 after

[00:54:33] he put up a 92 this year again if he goes

[00:54:37] somewhere else he's gonna pull a Tao that's

[00:54:40] fine but the Mariners can't control that

[00:54:43] yeah I guess it's like saying if Julio went

[00:54:45] to play for the Rockies he'd put up a 950

[00:54:47] OPS but Mariners can't control that yeah

[00:54:53] oh second base is gonna be a fun topic

[00:54:56] all offseason isn't it we're gonna have a

[00:54:58] grand old time talking about second base

[00:55:00] and again Cole Young has a chance to be a

[00:55:02] good player long term what the

[00:55:05] expectations are for a guy that's gonna be

[00:55:07] 22 years old it's like you can't put that

[00:55:11] much on him especially for a guy who is

[00:55:13] not supposed to have 20 to 25 home run

[00:55:16] power that's just not his game he'll be a

[00:55:18] bat-to-ball guy honestly that's something

[00:55:19] the Mariners could probably really use

[00:55:21] somebody that's more bat-to-ball won't

[00:55:23] strike out a lot but if you're talking

[00:55:24] about true offensive output I wouldn't

[00:55:28] bank on a 115 WRC plus for him in his first

[00:55:31] season I hope he does but I don't think

[00:55:34] it's fair to put that pressure on him

[00:55:35] yeah Cole Young next year is gonna be I

[00:55:38] would say at best like as a safe number

[00:55:42] like a 680 OPS at second base like that's

[00:55:47] probably the ceiling of what he offers you

[00:55:49] offensively next year I'd love to be wrong

[00:55:51] I don't know if that's the ceiling but

[00:55:53] that does feel about what ceiling for a

[00:55:55] rookie for a 22 year old rookie I feel

[00:55:57] like we'll see because he is higher regarded

[00:56:01] than guys like Bliss who put up about well

[00:56:03] less than that but well I hope he does

[00:56:08] more they at this point the Mariners really

[00:56:10] need him to prove me wrong like absolutely

[00:56:12] need to prove it wrong but what happens

[00:56:15] when Cole Young steps in that box for the

[00:56:17] first time looks out to that batter's eye

[00:56:18] and is like oh shit I can't see anything

[00:56:23] did somebody turn this thing halfway upside

[00:56:25] down yeah and he's gonna realize oh this

[00:56:30] might not happen this year I hope we're

[00:56:34] wrong because again I do that's that is

[00:56:36] the Mariners highest ceiling and best hope

[00:56:39] for a productive second baseman in 2024 as

[00:56:41] if Cole Young comes out and has a really

[00:56:42] good year all right before we get to

[00:56:45] shortstop let's take a pause talk to you

[00:56:47] guys about our friends at Pogaccia's pub

[00:56:49] 85 you guys know October is the best sports

[00:56:53] month of the whole calendar it's not close

[00:56:55] there's playoff baseball college football

[00:56:56] NFL hockey and basketball are about to start

[00:56:59] and you want a place to go watch all the

[00:57:00] games head over there if you do so you can

[00:57:03] get some great happy hour deals there's

[00:57:04] great food there's darts there's pool what

[00:57:07] are those happy hour deals you might ask

[00:57:08] the three and four dollar drinks from 2 to

[00:57:10] 6 p.m. on Monday through Friday you're not

[00:57:12] going to find better deals than that so

[00:57:13] head over there Pogaccia's pub 85 in

[00:57:16] Kirkland J.P. Crawford shortstop another

[00:57:21] one that's going to be a tough tough

[00:57:23] conversation here I think that J.P.

[00:57:27] Crawford's season was the most disappointing

[00:57:31] season of any Mariner 100% he had the

[00:57:35] biggest drop-off by far in terms of

[00:57:36] production from a season ago and where the

[00:57:38] expectations were heading into 2024 you're

[00:57:41] talking about a guy that was a top 10

[00:57:44] hitter in the American League last year

[00:57:46] that's not hyperbole top 10 and he turns

[00:57:50] around in 2024 with a 625 OPS and an 89

[00:57:53] WRC plus I know he missed a chunk of time

[00:57:56] he had multiple lengthy I I L stints this

[00:57:59] year but man what happened even when he was

[00:58:03] playing it just wasn't there this guy had

[00:58:05] no home runs in the second half of the

[00:58:07] season zero that's a real number he had

[00:58:10] nine total zero were in the second half

[00:58:12] after hitting 19 a year ago yeah when he

[00:58:16] hit most of his homers in the second half

[00:58:17] like just think about this that 89 WRC plus

[00:58:20] doesn't ring true enough that is the worst

[00:58:22] number on the infield he was the worst hitter

[00:58:24] on the infield like this year he was worse

[00:58:28] than Rojas he was worse than Polanco he was

[00:58:32] worse than Ty France it's worse than Justin

[00:58:36] Turner that's bad you can get into some of

[00:58:41] the unqualified hitters if you want but

[00:58:43] those guys don't play anywhere near as much

[00:58:45] as JP does so there was always the the wonder

[00:58:49] off of last year is like because he didn't

[00:58:51] have an insane batted ball profile last year

[00:58:55] offensively he hit the ball directionally

[00:58:58] well he hit the right combination of of launch

[00:59:00] angle and exit velocity to pull a bunch of

[00:59:02] balls hit a bunch of home runs well his pull

[00:59:05] power went away his pull he has his pulling the

[00:59:08] ball went away he pulled the ball 43% of the

[00:59:10] time last year it went down 11% this year and

[00:59:13] the rest of those hits got scattered up the

[00:59:16] middle and away JP Crawford doesn't have any

[00:59:18] power up in the middle up the middle in a

[00:59:20] way so what happens to that Lyle then I mean

[00:59:23] that's why his slugging percentage drops down

[00:59:25] to 321 like this is JP going past what he was

[00:59:31] before as a hitter like past what he was in

[00:59:34] 2022 and 2021 when people were waiting for a

[00:59:38] little bit more power and a little bit more

[00:59:40] consistency offensively he went all the way

[00:59:43] past that backwards this season yeah he had a

[00:59:46] couple injuries he had the oblique you know the

[00:59:48] pinky that certainly didn't help but he was

[00:59:52] consistently not good it's not because of

[00:59:55] injuries he just went to the plate and did not

[00:59:59] hit the only thing that saved his season if

[01:00:04] you're going to look at wins above replacement

[01:00:05] is the fact he actually took a nice jump forward

[01:00:09] defensively this year again which had been a

[01:00:10] couple years since he'd done that so he had nine

[01:00:13] defensive run saved this year out above average

[01:00:15] he had one so he had a little bit less range

[01:00:17] but if you're talking about just run saving he

[01:00:19] had a much better year but that's the only

[01:00:21] thing that really saved it if you want to look at

[01:00:24] B war because that gave him the more favorable war

[01:00:25] than fan graphs did this year that put him at a

[01:00:27] 2.7 which is why the grade I gave for JP

[01:00:32] this year is a C minus and I know when you say oh but

[01:00:35] he was almost a three-win player isn't that more

[01:00:37] valuable well there's a little bit of a curve

[01:00:39] here because the expectations he set last year

[01:00:41] was at least to some extent he has turned a

[01:00:44] corner offensively and he can really be relied

[01:00:46] upon in this offense he's going to be your lead

[01:00:48] off hitter but a 625 OPS and 89 WRC plus no home

[01:00:53] runs in the second half isn't a stalwart by any

[01:00:57] stretch it's certainly not a lead off hitter so

[01:01:00] yeah like on a curve he is going to get a lesser

[01:01:03] grade now there's still some things in his profile

[01:01:05] that he did well enough he always walks doesn't

[01:01:08] chase a lot that's his bread and butter but almost

[01:01:12] everything else took dives this year now his batted ball

[01:01:16] profile to your point didn't change that much but there

[01:01:18] are other meters here that took took dips his ex-woba took a

[01:01:23] big dip this year his strikeout rate you know for a guy

[01:01:25] that doesn't strike out a lot for his career highest mark of

[01:01:28] his career this year went up 22.6 percent now that's not

[01:01:31] high but JP Crawford usually keeps it under 20 his career

[01:01:35] strikeout rates about 18 percent a lot of things that really

[01:01:39] did not go well this year we talk about the position players

[01:01:42] being blamed for Scott service getting let go we threw

[01:01:48] some blame Julio's way certainly because he had up to that

[01:01:51] point struggled sorry it is just hard to read through these

[01:01:56] stats loud I'm gonna be honest we gave Julio his flack but

[01:02:00] when we review Julio with the outfielders you'll notice that he

[01:02:04] finished his season with a respectable offensive season

[01:02:07] because of a strong second half well JP never recovered that

[01:02:11] therefore again the drop-off of offense is one of the biggest

[01:02:17] contributing factors to this offense underperforming this season

[01:02:20] what I cannot understand for JP there's a couple things here

[01:02:23] number one he stopped hitting pitches like in the zone like as a hitter

[01:02:28] that's what you have to do you have to hit pitches in the zone he stopped I

[01:02:32] have his two heat maps up here of his weighted on base average like the

[01:02:38] the savant the savant strike zone things they'll show you by quadrant how

[01:02:42] effective he was well in 2023 he crossed middle middle pitches middle down down and

[01:02:50] away and then middle in he was excellent against all those pitches the only one

[01:02:54] where JP doesn't have a blue square in 2024 is down the middle and it's only light

[01:02:59] red and light red is before dark red dark red is really good light red is okay

[01:03:06] that's puzzling why that was a thing but it's not just and we can dive in even

[01:03:11] further than that like that's just the the the results what about why it was like he

[01:03:20] stopped hitting fastballs he saw a 15 run value drop in hitting against fastballs he saw a 11 run

[01:03:30] value drop against sinkers he saw a 8 run value drop against change up change ups like these are all

[01:03:38] things that a guy who's going to be 30 next year you don't expect to see these kinds of drop-offs in

[01:03:46] an age 29 season when you've already gotten paid you're coming off a career year where it looks like

[01:03:51] you figured something out and then all of a sudden you come up here and everything just falls off the

[01:03:57] table and here's the most troubling thing before I let you talk again his wrc plus against righties

[01:04:05] last year was 142 why was JP Crawford's wrc plus against righties this year 73

[01:04:15] let me let me repeat that JP Crawford a left-handed hitter had a 73 wrc plus against righties

[01:04:22] that almost does not seem real just speaks to all the struggles he had this year

[01:04:29] which big which brings us to the bigger question let me start this by saying I actually think JP

[01:04:34] Crawford's spot on the infield is more secure than anybody else on the Mariners infield first base

[01:04:40] is an unknown right now second base is going to be an unknown if the Mariners don't pick up

[01:04:43] Polanco's club option and third base we'll get to them in a minute but there's speculation that

[01:04:48] they may have to replace that position too so I actually think JP Crawford's spot is probably the

[01:04:53] safest because he's under contract for a couple more years he's viewed at as a fan favorite he's viewed

[01:04:59] that is very very well liked in the clubhouse so I think he's going to be here I still ask the

[01:05:07] question however of while it may not be a fun thought is he going to recover from this can he

[01:05:14] bounce back from this or is this just the way he's going to start to trend for a guy that's also going

[01:05:20] to be 30 and the other thing to think about is can the Mariners afford not only can he recover to

[01:05:27] this so by recover let me clarify what do you qualify as recovering is he getting back to

[01:05:31] the 105 ish he was WRC plus in 2022 are we talking about getting somewhere near where he was in 2023

[01:05:41] what he did in 2023 is probably going to be an outlier at this point so I'm not talking 130

[01:05:46] WRC plus I'm not even talking 120 yeah let's say somewhere between 105 and 115 can he recover and

[01:05:54] get back to that right now my answer is I don't know he might be able to but can the Mariners afford

[01:05:59] that based on how they're building the rest of the roster offensively I feel like they need him to be

[01:06:04] better than that like seriously if they're if they're unwilling to invest the proper resources in

[01:06:10] second at third and at first base which we've articulated and we get the impression of this

[01:06:15] offseason that you know replacing your entire infield is not really a thing teams do because

[01:06:19] the players aren't available so there's a there's no choice but for JP Crawford to pick that offense

[01:06:26] back up or the Mariners offense is going to be bad again can't just get carried by your outfield

[01:06:34] no you can't well we've got one more position to go on this infield and it's third base if you're

[01:06:43] watching on YouTube thank goodness for here as they thank goodness for Riverside's mute button that

[01:06:49] reminds me of a funny story once in a ASU baseball press conference we were at there was a handful

[01:06:54] of us in there and TJ is just coughing up a storm it's funny TJ used to have a real problem with a

[01:07:00] cough all throughout college now it's gone away over the last few years but he used to be a big

[01:07:05] cougher all the time I don't know if it was allergies or what maybe but there was once we were in an

[01:07:09] ASU baseball press conference and you were coughing through the entirety of it and at the very end the

[01:07:15] SID stands up as everybody starts to you know leave and he goes TJ Jesus Christ I probably should

[01:07:23] have skipped it I somehow called that game I called that like Tuesday game like somehow didn't cough

[01:07:30] like somehow managed to get through the whole thing without it I utilize the mute button a lot

[01:07:36] the uh the cough button and maybe and maybe the break between innings too break between innings

[01:07:41] and some lozenges but but that helped but yeah it was a good thing for the mute button on here but

[01:07:46] while again I'm just gonna just repeat like I would also like like have a uh god what's the right word

[01:07:53] to use it's just tough reading these infield grades oh that's awesome that's what you mean

[01:07:58] yeah well I don't know if it's gonna get that much easier with third base so position as a whole

[01:08:05] and and maybe this is more about Josh Rojas because he spent the majority of the time there yeah I gave

[01:08:11] Rojas a C for what he did this year what he did in the first six weeks was incredible he hit 333

[01:08:18] his OPS was 891 he had a 162 WRC plus he legitimately looked like he was going to be an all-star

[01:08:26] an all-star now even if he wasn't going to keep up that pace it seemed like they really had something

[01:08:32] but from May 15th until the end of the year Josh Rojas hit 188 with a 555 OPS and a 67 WRC plus

[01:08:42] tale of two different seasons for Josh Rojas

[01:08:45] but if we look at the season as a whole I feel like we're getting a pretty good idea of what Josh

[01:08:51] Rojas is offensively just look at back at the last four seasons this is about it OPS wise between

[01:08:59] this year and last year it's about the the same last year was a struggle for him my technicality

[01:09:05] standpoint the league offensive environment last year was better so his WRC plus was lower league

[01:09:11] offensive environment this year was worse so his WRC plus was higher regardless the results are about

[01:09:16] the same for the Mariners get on the field in terms of run production not enough from a third baseman

[01:09:24] 91 WRC plus over a full season starting at third base in 2024 just doesn't cut it you got to get more

[01:09:32] out of that and the six weeks were great but they really could have used him the rest of the season

[01:09:38] the next four and a half months and they didn't they didn't get that and it never seemed like he was

[01:09:43] going to turn it around because there were no other hot streaks quite like that to dig him out

[01:09:49] offensively so then you again just go look at his career he's now like so he had a 91 WRC plus this

[01:09:56] year he's a 92 WRC plus hitter for his career over 2,000 plate appearances like at this point

[01:10:04] this is who Josh Rojas is we were hoping when they traded for him there would be a little bit

[01:10:09] more in there but we've now seen a year and a half and 91 to 92 is about what you get

[01:10:16] so what that says is he's probably a utility infielder moving forward which is fine there's a role for

[01:10:22] that on the team but probably not a guy you can roll out every day at a position that's supposed to

[01:10:28] be one of the premier offensive spots in major league baseball just doesn't work you can't go four and a

[01:10:32] a half months putting up a 555 OPS and especially not at third base and look Rojas has good qualities

[01:10:40] offensively another guy that doesn't chase can draw some walks but when again you're expected to be an

[01:10:48] everyday big league starter especially at a position that features the likes across the league

[01:10:53] of players like Rafael Devers Austin Riley list on and on as many guys as you want to list off

[01:11:00] you can't put up a 555 OPS at a premier offensive position just doesn't cut it and he actually had

[01:11:07] some improvements this year offensively like his barrel rate went up his hard hit rate went up

[01:11:12] like he as you mentioned continued to not chase and it didn't matter because it just like that's

[01:11:19] just not the kind of hitter he is now looking forward to next season like you said there are a

[01:11:24] couple options he can be a utility infielder Dylan Moore already kind of occupies that spot so the

[01:11:32] next option for that would be he goes and plays second base now is that better offensively than the

[01:11:38] either Abe Toro the mismatch we suggested or Jorge Polanco it's probably about the same you're probably

[01:11:47] somewhere if you choose any of those options from 90 to 95 WRC plus at second base at least Rojas will

[01:11:55] bring you a good glove you know that Polanco can't field at this point of his career it's got no range

[01:11:59] but Josh Rojas at third base put up a career defensive year he's one of the best defensive

[01:12:04] third basemen in baseball so at least you would have that and that was a reason his grade got dragged

[01:12:10] up a little bit for me to a C because of the defense the defense was really good this year he

[01:12:17] provided value over there at the hot corner wasn't wasn't just good it was phenomenal guy put up nine

[01:12:23] outs above average that was first among all American League third baseman he legitimately may win a gold

[01:12:27] glove this year or if not a gold glove because it's a stupid award the fielding bible which is the real

[01:12:33] defensive award because it uses actual numbers and metrics to give out the awards that's why Josh

[01:12:37] Rojas put up a two win season because he was maybe the American League's best defensive third baseman

[01:12:44] so yeah he has value maybe that is what happens next year is him and Dylan Moore split time between

[01:12:52] second base when Cole Young's ready it's Cole Young but yeah we made a roll last offseason one platoon

[01:13:00] and now we're just starting talking it's all right well we got one at first base we got one at second base

[01:13:06] gonna have could have one at third base well TJ I'm sorry like Luke Braley has to play somewhere so

[01:13:12] that means there's gonna be another one at a different position well TJ I'm sorry dog going out

[01:13:18] depressed I'm sorry but going out and signing free agents that are some of the best players in baseball

[01:13:23] is not a smart strategy so they simply can't do that we've been told it's not a smart strategy so

[01:13:29] unfortunately instead of going out and getting Christian Walker to play first base you're gonna get

[01:13:36] a platoon instead of signing Marcus Semien a couple years ago you get another platoon you just can't you

[01:13:42] simply cannot go out and get elite players it's not it's not how you win games Alex Alex Bregman

[01:13:49] sounds very enticing even if you don't believe in his long-term viability as an offensive player

[01:13:55] better what they have than what they have man you you really just don't listen have you not

[01:13:59] listened to me sitting here talking the last six like 60 seconds couple shows just get it through your

[01:14:04] head it's not a smart strategy it's like that's just not how but you know what I don't understand

[01:14:10] Rojas is gonna be what 30 or 31 next year how does that make any sense so it's more valuable to pay a

[01:14:19] 31 year old who's not going to produce at second base to platoon over a 30 year old who is actually

[01:14:26] going to produce guys someone make make it make sense somebody they already did they told us it's not a

[01:14:33] smart strategy just get it through your head well the sooner you can accept it the better so they have

[01:14:38] no problem playing old arbitration players on their roster just not old free agent players

[01:14:46] listen when you get tied down to contracts like Robinson Cano who had a career 130 WRC plus here

[01:14:51] you just can't sign guys like that I don't know what you want me to tell you that's not how you win

[01:14:56] games we've been told did you realize Josh Rojas was 30 this year yes yeah oh okay well I didn't I

[01:15:04] thought he was younger than that so that's basically what Rojas did for the year unless you've got

[01:15:09] anything else to say on Rojas before we wrap the show up I gotta get just a couple notes in here about

[01:15:14] the other guy that spent some time at third base just buckle up here people Luis Urias was given

[01:15:23] five million American dollars to play 41 big league games at third to play 41 big league games most of

[01:15:33] which was at third base this year for reasons that were not injury related he got demoted to triple a

[01:15:39] for most of the year because he was not a big league caliber player barely was offensively certainly was not

[01:15:46] defensively and he was given five million US dollars by the Seattle Mariners to play 41 games

[01:15:55] by the way he hit 191 struck out 31 percent of the time and put up negative four outs above average

[01:16:02] now his WRC plus technically was seven percent above league average because they'd only really play him

[01:16:07] against lefties and that was weighted by the fact that every now and then he'd run into one

[01:16:12] but you look at Luis Urias his offensive profile the only thing he seemed to do decently well was

[01:16:19] barrel at baseballs and everything else was blue let me say it again five million American dollars

[01:16:25] that money would have been better spent on uh a new addition to the box yard would it well well

[01:16:35] actually if that five million if that five million dollars can go toward Juan Soto's proceeds at the box yard

[01:16:41] like we've outlined or hear or hear me out we put it in an endowment and then that helps pay for Juan

[01:16:48] Soto's contract every year do you really want to go through all that process though for a guy that's not

[01:16:53] going to be a smart strategy to sign I would be but the organization not uh can we get a demo can we get a

[01:17:02] quick demo grade we haven't mentioned him yet I don't even know where to put him position wise

[01:17:11] well are we just putting him on the infield well uh we could put him in the outfield no we can just do

[01:17:19] it now can I give the guy a b minus two war I mean for a utility guy two win player 105 WRC plus or OPS

[01:17:27] plus is that not what he's supposed to do as a as a utility player yeah it's about right like comes

[01:17:33] off the bench and provides value that's what he did so I would say b minus no notes yeah yeah so I

[01:17:41] would say I would say that I wonder can we can we get that hashtag going this offseason

[01:17:46] hashtag not a smart strategy I'm down should we let's tweet it out with the show okay or or every or

[01:17:54] just every time one of the big free agents goes off the board hashtag not a smart strategy

[01:18:00] or whenever a big free agent in the playoffs does something we can do that so Shohei um we could do it

[01:18:07] for Mookie too he got a big extension into his 30s Manny um well Tatis got an extension till he's

[01:18:15] gonna be what 37 or something but he's like 24 and he's homegrown all right fair um but you get the point

[01:18:23] so who else who else could we say that about in the postseason well judge uh yeah just technically

[01:18:29] judge yep um any of the Phillies guys Castellanos Harper Harper for sure yeah

[01:18:40] Zach Wheeler although the Mariners don't need pitching but Zach Wheeler

[01:18:44] still works we'll have plenty of options yes so message to you everybody if you guys are sitting

[01:18:51] around this offseason you're watching baseball you're watching the offseason play out get the

[01:18:56] hashtag going hashtag not a smart strategy and please tag us when you do we'll likely we'll

[01:19:03] retweet it if you tag us hashtag not a smart strategy you guys are the best yeah they yes yes our listeners

[01:19:09] are the best on that note that'll just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Layer podcast you guys

[01:19:14] know the drill you want to listen to the full form pod you can do so wherever you get your audio

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[01:19:34] that's tj i'm lyle as always we thank you guys for tuning in talk to you soon