Episode 186: Mariners Hire Hitting Coach Kevin Seitzer + Would This Trade Package Be Enough To Acquire Vladdy? (Mailbag)

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[00:00:55] Welcome to episode number 186 of the Marine Layer Podcast.

[00:00:58] It's a mailbag episode. We'll open it up and answer some of your guys' best questions.

[00:01:03] The Mariners also make their first move of the offseason.

[00:01:06] They hire a new hitting coach, Kevin Seitzer from the Atlanta Braves.

[00:01:10] We'll talk about that and a couple more of the additions they made.

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[00:01:47] Let's get it rolling.

[00:02:01] And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network,

[00:02:07] recording on Tuesday evening, November 26th.

[00:02:12] Mariners have made their first couple of moves on the offseason, and it is all on the coaching side.

[00:02:17] Two big points that have come out earlier this week, Lyle.

[00:02:20] First off, they have a new hitting coach.

[00:02:23] Second off, Edgar Martinez is back.

[00:02:26] Which of those is bigger?

[00:02:30] Probably Edgar being back.

[00:02:31] I'm still...

[00:02:34] What's the right word?

[00:02:35] I'm still not totally sold on what a hitting coach really does in Major League Baseball.

[00:02:40] Maybe Kevin Seitzer will be different if he's going to be more of that old school coach and more beyond feel and not on the mechanics and all the technical sides of swing decisions,

[00:02:50] which is what the old regime was like.

[00:02:52] And if it's really more about getting through to players and getting them to buy in on a plan and simplifying things for them,

[00:02:59] then maybe there's an argument for that.

[00:03:00] But I think the fact that it was reported that Edgar really got through to some guys last year, Julio specifically,

[00:03:06] and things started to turn around when he came into town is important.

[00:03:10] I don't think Edgar was the end-all be-all reason the Mariners' offense turned around.

[00:03:13] I think players starting to progress to their norms.

[00:03:16] I think Justin Turner coming in last year made a big difference.

[00:03:19] But if players felt like Edgar really helped turn things around and they bought into his plan, then it's important for him to be back, and he is.

[00:03:26] Let's break down the structure of this.

[00:03:28] So the Mariners announced this early on Thanksgiving week of what their 2024 coaching staff or 2024, 2025 coaching staff is going to look like.

[00:03:37] Edgar Martinez is going to be in charge of the hitting department.

[00:03:40] He's the boss.

[00:03:41] So he's going to be under Dan Wilson, but he's going to oversee all aspects of the Mariners hitting program at the big league level.

[00:03:49] Kevin Seitzer will report to Edgar and work as the official hitting coach.

[00:03:55] So they also added from the Braves.

[00:03:57] So Seitzer was with the Braves for the last 10 years.

[00:03:59] They also added his former assistant hitting coach with the Braves, Bobby Maggiannis.

[00:04:04] I'm going to say his pronunciation of the last name is.

[00:04:07] I could have screwed that up, but that's my stab at pronouncing his last name.

[00:04:11] So they were both working with the Braves for Maggiannis the last handful of years, for Kevin Seitzer the last 10 years.

[00:04:20] Listen to this.

[00:04:20] Listen to these offenses for the Braves the last few years.

[00:04:24] Braves regressed a lot this past season in 2024.

[00:04:28] They're 16th in WRC plus 2023.

[00:04:31] They were first in all of baseball when it came to weight when it came to weighted runs created plus they were the best team in baseball.

[00:04:39] They had some mashers on that team led by an MVP season from Ronald Acuna, but it wasn't just a one off.

[00:04:45] They were sixth in 2022.

[00:04:47] They were 12th in 2021 with Acuna injury, just like in 2024.

[00:04:52] And then they were third in the shortened COVID season in 2020.

[00:04:55] He's got a really good reputation.

[00:04:57] Only the Dodgers have scored more runs than the Braves in the last five seasons.

[00:05:02] Yeah, maybe he has some really good players on it.

[00:05:04] But Kevin Seitzer knows what he's talking about.

[00:05:07] We checked in with a couple people around the Braves organization about how he is as a hitting coach, and we heard some really good things.

[00:05:16] Yeah, the words we heard are you guys are going to love them.

[00:05:19] I think the Mariners are going to love them.

[00:05:21] So that's a good sign.

[00:05:22] There was also really good signs about Brant Brown when he was hired.

[00:05:25] So this is what it boils down to, right?

[00:05:28] This is where my walls go up and my shields go up.

[00:05:31] Brant Brown was supposed to be the hire of all hires last year.

[00:05:34] He had fixed things in Miami.

[00:05:35] He had worked with guys with the Dodgers and had a bunch of success.

[00:05:39] And then they fired him in two months.

[00:05:41] So look, I hope Kevin Seitzer is way better than that.

[00:05:43] I hope he really gets through to this team.

[00:05:45] But I just struggle to really, especially at this point, buy in on how much a hitting coach does for a team in 2025 or 2024 in the modern years and how much of a difference it's really going to make.

[00:06:00] It's not going to make none, but I think it more boils down to these guys are just going to have to hit.

[00:06:05] I think hitting coaches get talked about a lot more publicly than probably the impact they have internally.

[00:06:14] But look, if they think Seitzer is the guy and he really can make some changes, then great.

[00:06:19] And most of that publicity is when the team is sucking, not when it's good.

[00:06:23] Right.

[00:06:23] Because if the team's good, usually you don't hear about them as much.

[00:06:26] You'll hear a little bit of praise, but a lot of that praise will instead go towards the hitters instead of the coach himself.

[00:06:33] But when the hitters stink, it's the coach's fault a lot of the time.

[00:06:37] Right.

[00:06:38] So we'll see ultimately what that is as it's going forward.

[00:06:40] I'm curious.

[00:06:41] I raise an eyebrow at a couple of things and it's not disqualifying Kevin Seitzer in any way.

[00:06:47] It's just a couple of realities of the situation.

[00:06:49] First of all, how does he operate in a new organization?

[00:06:52] He was with one for the last decade plus.

[00:06:56] Well, decades, sorry.

[00:06:57] Exactly.

[00:06:58] In Atlanta.

[00:06:59] That's number one.

[00:06:59] Number two.

[00:07:01] It's very evident the Braves had a significantly more talented lineup than the Mariners will roll out opening day of 2025.

[00:07:09] How do you balance working with a lineup go from a lineup that talented to a lineup like the one the Mariners are going to put that's going to be an adjustment he's going to have to make.

[00:07:18] And then the other one, I think this point stuck out to me of the person around the Braves organization that we talked to is that the Braves as an org really love slug like that's what they focus on with their offense.

[00:07:29] And certainly that is what stands out the most of the Braves.

[00:07:33] They hit a ton of home runs.

[00:07:34] They hit the ball extremely hard.

[00:07:36] They have really good approaches at the plate to really attack damage pitches in the zone.

[00:07:42] And that's worked really well for them.

[00:07:44] They play in a park that is more accustomed to hitting.

[00:07:47] Would an approach like that work in a ballpark that suppresses offense more than any other offense in base any other park in baseball?

[00:07:57] Man, we'd have to see.

[00:07:59] It just depends how much of that sites are brings over and how much of that stays with the Braves.

[00:08:05] I think what our person told us though is the Braves themselves really buy into slug and really buy into the whole elevate and celebrate mentality.

[00:08:15] I don't know if Seitzer himself believes in that as much.

[00:08:19] I think he had to buy into it more because the Braves believed in it as an organization philosophically.

[00:08:24] But I think Seitzer more believes in some of the old school hitting the way that Edgar does.

[00:08:30] So I think he...

[00:08:31] And that makes sense.

[00:08:32] What's that?

[00:08:33] And that would make sense because...

[00:08:34] Right.

[00:08:35] Yeah, Edgar had to approve of this, I'm sure.

[00:08:38] Yeah.

[00:08:39] So I think Seitzer's more in line with some of the older, more core hitting principles that Edgar is.

[00:08:46] And I think you're going to see that when he's here in Seattle.

[00:08:50] It's going to be interesting to see the drastic change in this organization's approach to hitting.

[00:08:56] And I wonder what exactly it's going to look like because forever, the Mariners were all about slug too.

[00:09:02] That's what they cared about.

[00:09:03] Get your best swing off the mechanics and the real nuts and bolts technicalities of a swing and winning certain counts and expecting certain pitches in certain counts.

[00:09:14] Rather than Edgar just simplifying it and saying, hey, stay in the middle of the field.

[00:09:18] Hit the fastball.

[00:09:20] I wonder if that's going to work better.

[00:09:22] Number one, it's certainly worked better for about six weeks.

[00:09:24] We'll see if it works better for a full season.

[00:09:28] But this also is totally a 180 from what Jerry DePoto's had the mindset of his entire tenure in Seattle.

[00:09:38] And this new buy-in to old school hitting makes me wonder one of two things.

[00:09:44] Is this all just to try and save his job?

[00:09:47] There is a world where that's possible.

[00:09:49] One, he knows that he has to change up a lot and can't keep doing the same things that he's been doing.

[00:09:56] And knows that if that continues, it may fall on him finally.

[00:10:01] Or the second option here is he's really ready to adjust.

[00:10:06] Has hitting gone too far the opposite direction in buying into power, buying into walks, buying into elevating and celebrating where Jerry's now saying, all right, let's dial it back a little bit.

[00:10:17] Pitching might be as advanced as it's ever been.

[00:10:21] But hitting is so hard in today's day and age.

[00:10:23] Maybe we need to dial it back.

[00:10:24] Maybe we need to simplify a little bit.

[00:10:26] And that's what this staff clearly says that they're going to do.

[00:10:31] Whether or not it works, we're just going to have to see at this point because we are in a prove it to us point with any sort of Mariners offense because they've largely been unable to do that.

[00:10:42] It's not to say slugging does not work within the Mariners because there are certain points and certain players where that is their path to success.

[00:10:52] Think about it this way.

[00:10:54] The best version we saw of J.P. Crawford was not the 280 hitting singles hitter J.P. Crawford.

[00:11:01] What was the best version of J.P.?

[00:11:03] It's when he elevated and celebrated in 2023 and pulled 19 home runs into right field.

[00:11:09] That was the best version of J.P. Crawford.

[00:11:10] Yeah.

[00:11:11] So and had a 135 WRC plus.

[00:11:14] Yeah, right.

[00:11:14] And was one of the best hitters in the American League last that year.

[00:11:17] So we've seen for players, J.P. Crawford is that example I used.

[00:11:22] Julio is a clear example of that where Julio is a better player when he's hitting the ball hard and in the air, whether other than him hitting the ball on the ground and up the middle or just playing a single in the center field.

[00:11:34] Understandably, that's for those players and that works for them.

[00:11:37] Not everyone is, though, and we still have question marks at plenty of other positions on this team.

[00:11:43] They have yet to been cleared up yet and whether or not those guys are a better fit for, you know, the old strategy, the Brent Brown strategy, the the whatever Brent Brown strategy was.

[00:11:54] It's from everything we've heard.

[00:11:56] It's almost too complex to to really explain in in a single podcast or just to just to try and simplify it as well.

[00:12:06] I'm I'm going to try and keep an open mind with this, but this isn't going to this isn't going to have a skirt around the fact that they also need to add players for sites or to coach and hit real players, because as he said, there's only so much a hitting coach can do the players around him.

[00:12:23] And the Braves roster has proved that over the years are the ones who really make the difference.

[00:12:28] It is a lot easier to be a hitting coach when you have Freddie Freeman, Ronald Acuna, Michael Harris, Ozzie Albies, Austin Riley, Matt Olson, Marcelo Zuna and others to coach.

[00:12:40] It's a lot of talent.

[00:12:42] Well, the good news is the Mariners have an open canvas to go add players this winter.

[00:12:46] No restrictions.

[00:12:47] Really?

[00:12:49] That's that's that's the that's the word on the street.

[00:12:51] No restrictions as long as you stay under one hundred fifty five million dollars.

[00:12:56] Oh, right.

[00:12:57] So do the math on that ad subtracting.

[00:12:59] You get oh fifteen million dollars to spend sick.

[00:13:02] Awesome.

[00:13:04] I will say last thing on sites are here.

[00:13:07] One of the things that he has done in his career that may be noteworthy to some people.

[00:13:12] He really turned Raul Abana's his career around back in the early 2000s.

[00:13:16] Raul had a tough stint for a while in Seattle, especially the final couple years.

[00:13:21] He goes to Kansas City where he worked with Kevin Seitzer.

[00:13:25] Seitzer turned him right around Raul got really good right at about that time.

[00:13:30] So if you just want one example that has some Mariners ties, there's somebody that Seitzer's worked with that worked out great.

[00:13:38] But you could also look at his Braves development, too, if you want the most recent.

[00:13:42] So that's the Mariners type with the recent examples that he's worked with with the Braves.

[00:13:47] Well, let's start off with the news flash for you.

[00:13:49] Lyle.

[00:13:51] Kevin Seitzer did not fix Jared Kelnick.

[00:13:53] Mm hmm.

[00:13:55] Not yet.

[00:13:56] Well, yeah, actually, no, he's gone now, so he won't.

[00:13:58] He will not.

[00:13:58] Right.

[00:14:00] So Kevin Seitzer could not fix Jared Kelnick.

[00:14:02] So that's that's one measuring bar.

[00:14:04] But he did get the best seasons that Marcelo Zunas ever had.

[00:14:09] He got the best season that Matt Olson had ever had.

[00:14:13] He got the best season that Austin Riley had ever had.

[00:14:17] Ronald Acuna is a blue chip player, but that counts, too.

[00:14:21] He won an MVP under Kevin Seitzer.

[00:14:24] Mm hmm.

[00:14:24] Pretty notable achievements there.

[00:14:26] And just in the last five years.

[00:14:29] Can throw Michael Harrison to that, too.

[00:14:31] He was a good prospect, but I don't know if people expected him to hit the way he's hit, especially in his rookie year.

[00:14:36] That was Seitzer.

[00:14:37] Let's go.

[00:14:37] Exactly.

[00:14:38] Yep.

[00:14:41] So that's the biggest coaching news.

[00:14:44] Edgar back.

[00:14:44] And then Edgar has a hitting coach under him now in Kevin Seitzer.

[00:14:48] And then they have an assistant hitting coach in Bobby Maggiannis.

[00:14:52] Mm hmm.

[00:14:53] Offense is fixed.

[00:14:55] Yes.

[00:14:56] Doesn't matter who rolls that ball down to third base.

[00:14:58] It could be nobody down there to stop it.

[00:15:00] Offense is fixed.

[00:15:01] There's some other big news that that came out this week.

[00:15:04] They did.

[00:15:05] They did announce some other coaching changes.

[00:15:09] They announced that Manny Act is now going going to be the bench coach.

[00:15:13] And they're going to move Christian Christopher Negron to the third base coach.

[00:15:17] And Eric Young Jr.

[00:15:19] Lyle, this is important for you.

[00:15:20] And I'll explain why here in a second, is going to be the first base coach.

[00:15:25] Which now means, as you've seen on our channel earlier this year, hopefully that means Kenny from Cobra Kai will be back at the ballpark more.

[00:15:32] Yes.

[00:15:33] Yes.

[00:15:33] Yes.

[00:15:34] If you haven't picked up on this yet, TJ and I love Cobra Kai.

[00:15:38] Awesome show.

[00:15:39] We've already watched the second of third, the second of three parts of the final season.

[00:15:43] The third part's not out yet.

[00:15:45] And it was the craziest thing when he was there earlier in the year.

[00:15:48] Because I look over at the Angels dugout and I see some kid sitting in the dugout who has to be about 17 years old, 16, 17 years old.

[00:15:57] And I'm just looking at him and I'm like, I swear this kid looks so familiar.

[00:16:01] And I'm sitting there thinking to myself, this looks exactly like the kid from Cobra Kai.

[00:16:05] But I'm thinking to myself, why in the world would he be here?

[00:16:08] Then I asked one of the clubhouse attendants and I said, do you know who that guy is?

[00:16:11] And he's like, yeah, he's one of the coach's kids.

[00:16:13] He's actually kind of a famous actor.

[00:16:15] He's in the series Cobra Kai.

[00:16:16] And I was like, I thought that's who that was.

[00:16:19] And I was like, what is he doing here?

[00:16:20] And he is Eric Young Sr.'s son.

[00:16:23] And he is the younger brother of Eric Young Jr.

[00:16:26] Lo and behold, a day later, because he was there for the weekend, we got him on the mic.

[00:16:29] He was super cool.

[00:16:31] We talked a little bit of Cobra Kai, which was cool for me.

[00:16:35] And now I'm hoping he makes a couple trips to Seattle or is in spring training during the spring.

[00:16:40] And now I hope you won't have to deal with Angels PR.

[00:16:44] Oh my God, they were a nightmare to try to get him on the mic.

[00:16:47] I mean, I don't even know why.

[00:16:50] He's not part of the organization.

[00:16:51] He was there hanging out visiting.

[00:16:53] I was like, you want to just do one question on the mic with us?

[00:16:55] And Kenny himself, well, his name's not Kenny.

[00:16:57] His name's Dallas Young.

[00:16:58] That's his real name.

[00:16:59] But Kenny from Cobra Kai, he was all for it.

[00:17:02] He was like, yeah, absolutely.

[00:17:03] I'm happy to do it.

[00:17:04] He gets what new media is like and modern social media and doing social content.

[00:17:09] He was all for it.

[00:17:11] One of their PR people was giving me the hardest time about it for like no reason.

[00:17:15] And Dallas was like, really, really, it's fine.

[00:17:17] I don't mind doing it.

[00:17:18] And finally, we just got around to doing it.

[00:17:20] But yeah, now hopefully he's just on the Mariner side when he visits.

[00:17:24] That's good.

[00:17:26] Anyway, still one of the funniest interactions ever.

[00:17:30] It was crazy.

[00:17:31] I mean, it's that's the Angels organization for you.

[00:17:34] So yeah, I will say though, in addition to Eric Young Jr. being on the staff, which he's been in the organization for a couple of years now.

[00:17:44] So not shocked to see him get a promotion.

[00:17:46] It's awesome for him.

[00:17:47] In terms of Negron going to third and Manny becoming the bench coach.

[00:17:51] Number one, this is a promotion for Manny Acta.

[00:17:53] So awesome.

[00:17:55] Number two, Manny Acta is very, very well liked in that clubhouse.

[00:18:00] And the fact he's, you know, the fact he's been around for as long as he have, the fact he's resonated with so many guys.

[00:18:07] I think it's pretty important that he's sticking around because I think a lot of players really, really kind of gravitate toward Manny.

[00:18:15] And third, look, let me let me hit those two points home again.

[00:18:20] I'm very happy Manny Acta staying on the coaching staff.

[00:18:22] I think he plays a very crucial role on it.

[00:18:24] There's a buck coming.

[00:18:26] Oh, there's a buck coming.

[00:18:28] I am.

[00:18:28] I am thrilled to not see him coaching third base anymore because some of the decisions he would make at third base to send guys had my jaw on the floor over the last couple of years.

[00:18:41] Can I defend Manny here for a second?

[00:18:44] Right.

[00:18:45] You're going to say that his players made the decisions on their own, which is possible, but go ahead.

[00:18:51] The Mariners sucked on the base paths last year.

[00:18:53] They did.

[00:18:54] What is the base coach supposed to do?

[00:18:56] There was one that stuck out to me last year.

[00:19:00] I'm trying to even remember what game it was.

[00:19:02] I want to say it was some time in August.

[00:19:05] It was while Scott was still the manager and the ball was at the lip of the infield when it got to the cutoff man.

[00:19:12] And Manny's waving somebody around third.

[00:19:16] The throw beats the runner by what must have been 15 feet, but it was short hop.

[00:19:22] The catcher couldn't corral it.

[00:19:23] He couldn't get to his bearings in time.

[00:19:25] And somehow whoever the runner was for the Mariners was safe.

[00:19:29] But everybody on our end of the press box, because this was one of the games I was at doing media stuff.

[00:19:34] Everybody's looking at each other like, like what on earth just happened?

[00:19:39] In the sense of like, that was the most aggressive send I've ever seen.

[00:19:42] And Scott the next day was like, yeah, that was, that was a Manny act of decision.

[00:19:50] Like, like you can tell in Scott's voice.

[00:19:52] He was like, I didn't approve of that one.

[00:19:54] He's like, sometimes, sometimes Manny gets a little aggressive with his sends.

[00:19:59] And hey, that one, he's like, that one worked out.

[00:20:02] Now, it is no guarantee that Christopher Negron will be in a savant sending runners at third base.

[00:20:09] I think that's a pretty tricky endeavor to be a third base coach.

[00:20:13] But we're going to have to see the Mariners.

[00:20:15] I know do think very highly of Christian Christopher Negron.

[00:20:18] So they wanted to give him a promotion from what he was last year.

[00:20:23] So good for him.

[00:20:25] And I'd say my big takeaway from all this as we wrap this up and before we get into the mailbag,

[00:20:29] this coaching staff is going to look very different next year.

[00:20:33] So there's not a single coach on the hitting side returning from if you turn the clock back a year ago at this exact time,

[00:20:43] any hitting coach that was currently employed by the Mariners will not be back.

[00:20:47] So that side is going to be completely new.

[00:20:50] And then there's going to be a lot of reshuffling elsewhere.

[00:20:53] I'll say on the pitching side, it's pretty status quo.

[00:20:58] Which that's a big deal in itself.

[00:21:00] The fact they are retaining Pete Woodworth and Trent Blank.

[00:21:03] Number one, those should be no brainers.

[00:21:05] You should not let those guys leave the building for everything they've done for this pitching for this pitching staff.

[00:21:10] But the fact they are staying and everything on the pitching side on the pitching side is saying,

[00:21:16] geez, I can't even talk is staying status quo for the most part is a big deal.

[00:21:20] So I'm thrilled to see that those guys are back.

[00:21:23] The one departure was Carson Vitale who leaves to go be the bench coach with the Marlins, which really cool for him because that is very much a promotion for him.

[00:21:33] He seems like he's on his way to being a head coach at some point in his coaching career.

[00:21:38] And now that he's going to be second in line in Miami feels like he's on the path.

[00:21:41] So good for him.

[00:21:43] Did you say head coach?

[00:21:45] Oh, did I say head coach?

[00:21:47] I meant bench coach.

[00:21:47] Sorry.

[00:21:51] That's all.

[00:21:51] That's going to be the second most disappointing thing that comes out of your mouth in this podcast episode for sure.

[00:21:57] Yeah.

[00:21:58] Bench coach.

[00:21:58] Yeah.

[00:21:59] Let me say it three times.

[00:22:00] Bench coach, bench coach, bench coach.

[00:22:01] Carson Vitale will be the bench coach in Miami.

[00:22:03] I do think he's on his way to getting a managerial job and I think that is a step towards that direction for Carson.

[00:22:15] So good for him.

[00:22:15] I'm not totally shocked to see him take another job.

[00:22:18] I mean, he was under service for a long time.

[00:22:20] He did work with the Poto for a long time to be fair.

[00:22:22] So he's been in the org, but got a promotion coaching staff changing a little bit against really cool for him and get some warm weather down that too.

[00:22:31] Now we'll see how that team is in 2025, but hey, again for Carson, it's a big promotion.

[00:22:39] Are you ready for the mailbag?

[00:22:41] I am after we take a pause and I talk to you guys about our friends over at Pogaccia's Pub 85 as we always like to tell you for very good reason.

[00:22:49] Awesome.

[00:22:50] Awesome spot to go hang out with your friends.

[00:22:52] You want to watch sporting events between college football in the NFL college basketball in the NBA, the NHL, whatever else you might be interested in.

[00:23:00] It's all over there.

[00:23:01] There's more than 20 TVs in that place.

[00:23:03] Watch whatever you're in the mood to watch.

[00:23:04] Play a night with your friends.

[00:23:06] Go eat some awesome food.

[00:23:07] Play some pool.

[00:23:08] Play some darts.

[00:23:09] And if you go during happy hour, drinks are three and four dollars.

[00:23:12] That's Monday through Friday happy hours, two to six p.m.

[00:23:15] So they're long happy hours.

[00:23:17] They're awesome drink specials.

[00:23:18] And there's a bunch of different things to do to have an awesome time with your friends.

[00:23:21] So all of that is over at Pogaccia's Pub 85 in Kirkland.

[00:23:26] Wünschst du dir jemanden, der dich versteht wie kein anderer?

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[00:24:22] Let's jump into the mailbag and let's start off in our YouTube comments.

[00:24:27] This comes from r92an on YouTube.

[00:24:30] And he has essentially a roster proposal for 2025.

[00:24:34] I'm gonna run it by you.

[00:24:35] So he says, could you trade Luis Castillo, Dom Canzon, and Prospects for Vladdy?

[00:24:41] Then in that fifth starter spot, you'll roll with Emerson Hancock or one of the other pitchers that are closer to the big leagues in the minor leagues with Vladdy.

[00:24:53] I don't know what position he says Vladdy's gonna play.

[00:24:56] So then he says you trade for Brandon Lau and sign Justin Turner on your infield.

[00:25:02] Your outfield stays the same.

[00:25:04] Your bullpen stays the same.

[00:25:06] Could that happen?

[00:25:08] And do you think that would be serviceable?

[00:25:11] So to try to make sense of what he's saying roster wise, I think he's saying Vladdy would play first.

[00:25:16] Rayleigh would stay in the outfield.

[00:25:18] DH when he has to.

[00:25:19] Turner would be a bench player and come off the bench.

[00:25:21] Lau would play second.

[00:25:22] Bullpen stays the same.

[00:25:23] He didn't specify exactly in the message, but I think he's gonna be.

[00:25:26] I'm assuming that's what he means.

[00:25:27] So let's roll with that.

[00:25:28] Is that plausible?

[00:25:30] No, I don't think so.

[00:25:32] I don't think Luis Castillo, Dom Canzon, and even some Prospects are gonna get you Vladdy.

[00:25:39] I don't think asking the Blue Jays to take on real money, which Luis Castillo and acquiring him would require, is gonna get you Vladimir Guerrero Jr.

[00:25:48] I think you're gonna have to give up prospects and not ask the Blue Jays to take on a lot of money in return to get the guy.

[00:25:58] So I don't think that's how you're gonna acquire Vladdy.

[00:26:01] The other way is you might have to trade a pitcher to get him.

[00:26:03] Now, I don't think it would, like, quite cost that much.

[00:26:07] And when I say pitcher, I mean one of the four not named Luis Castillo, one of the younger controllable ones.

[00:26:12] I don't think one year of Vladdy would cost that much where you have to trade a starter, which is why I sit on you would probably have to trade some real high-end prospects to get him.

[00:26:19] So I think the package would cost a little bit more than what this proposal is offering.

[00:26:24] So it would be Castillo, you'd take Canzon out of it, because I think this trade assumes Canzon holds value with the Blue Jays.

[00:26:33] Unfortunately, in Dom's case, he doesn't hold too much value right now, given how much he's struggled in the big leagues over the few hundred played appearances he had last year, which stinks for him.

[00:26:42] But it hasn't exactly raised his value for when the Mariners went out to acquire him in 2023, and they thought very highly of him.

[00:26:49] Unfortunately, he hasn't been able to prove them right yet.

[00:26:52] It would need to be if you're going to trade Castillo, because Castillo, in this sense, if Luis approved this trade, it would make sense because the Mariners would need to do that for money purposes.

[00:27:03] Because Vlad and Luis would just about offset themselves money-wise for this upcoming season.

[00:27:08] Vladdy, you'd have to sign to an extension.

[00:27:11] Castillo would have two more years of control after this next year on his contract.

[00:27:16] So the money would balance out in that aspect.

[00:27:20] So you'd offset the money, but then you'd need to make up the youth and talent gap there.

[00:27:25] And that would cost you...

[00:27:26] I mean, we're getting up into probably...

[00:27:30] If it was going to be a player of this caliber, it would only be one, but it would cost you, what, a Lazaro Montes?

[00:27:37] Yes.

[00:27:37] So let's say, like, Castillo and Laz for Vladdy?

[00:27:42] That feels more in the ballpark, yeah.

[00:27:45] I don't think you're quite trading one of your big two in Emerson or Celestine for one year of Vladdy.

[00:27:52] But, yeah, somebody like Lazaro Montes, who maybe they feel like in the long run could replace Vladdy at some point, whether it's a DH, whether it's a first base, whether they keep him in the outfield, etc.

[00:28:04] It's about what it feels like it would cost.

[00:28:07] And the Mariners still might have to eat some of Castillo's money in that case because he has multiple years left on that contract.

[00:28:13] And also, can we remind people, is Vladdy only five years older than Laz?

[00:28:20] Is that it?

[00:28:22] Yeah, that's crazy.

[00:28:23] Is that right?

[00:28:24] If he's 25, then that's the case.

[00:28:25] Right.

[00:28:26] Yeah, I think that's right.

[00:28:28] Just for some perspective.

[00:28:30] Wild.

[00:28:31] Yeah, I don't think this one happens.

[00:28:33] I am all for acquiring and extending Vlad Jr.

[00:28:37] But is it going to happen for this package?

[00:28:40] I don't think so.

[00:28:41] Is it going to happen, period?

[00:28:43] TBD.

[00:28:43] I'm sure the Blue Jays are trying to extend him right now.

[00:28:45] But I will say every passing day that he is not signed an extension feels possible.

[00:28:50] We talked a little bit about it on Wednesday's episode when it came to concerning for the Mariners' budget and how the Mariners had called the Blue Jays at the deadline and at least asked if he was available.

[00:29:01] But at this point, given their self-imposed constraints, the money would have to offset.

[00:29:07] Vlad's due $26 million this year in his final year of arbitration.

[00:29:13] I think that's the number.

[00:29:14] It's a lot of money.

[00:29:15] That's, what, $11 million more than their projected budget?

[00:29:20] There would need to be something that comes off the books in that case for us to even start talking prospect value to make up for that.

[00:29:29] Right.

[00:29:30] Okay, let's get to our second question here.

[00:29:33] This is from Joshua Bradshaw on Twitter.

[00:29:36] And he asks, the Mariners, or more, states an idea he has, the Mariners' off-season free agent target or main off-season free agent target should be Jeff Hoffman, who is a reliever with the Phillies, for those who might not be aware.

[00:29:49] Now he's a free agent.

[00:29:51] He will be relatively affordable and will be one of the most dominant relievers in baseball.

[00:29:56] This also gives you the option of trading Munoz in a package for a big bat.

[00:30:00] What do you think?

[00:30:02] Let's break this into two parts.

[00:30:03] Let's start with the Jeff Hoffman part.

[00:30:05] Jeff Hoffman makes a ton of sense.

[00:30:08] This is the exact kind of reliever the Mariners need for next year.

[00:30:12] They need another top-level, top-rail reliever to pitch in high leverage.

[00:30:18] One that they could, say, equates in value or equates in trust coming out of the bullpen to Andres Munoz, where you put him in the eighth and the ninth against the middle of the lineup, and you have trust he's going to get three outs.

[00:30:30] And that's what Jeff Hoffman does.

[00:30:32] This dude has just buzzsawed through hitters his last two years with the Phillies.

[00:30:37] He spent the first handful of years of his career in Colorado and in Cincinnati, two not-great-pitching development organizations, and two not-great-pitching parks.

[00:30:46] Goes to the Phillies and really breaks out.

[00:30:48] He's a free agent this season at age 21.

[00:30:50] He struck out over 33% of batters in each of the last two seasons.

[00:30:54] This is the guy.

[00:30:56] This is one of those guys you circle and be like, I could totally see that.

[00:31:01] And this player would make the Mariners way better.

[00:31:05] The problem is he's almost pitched too well and pitched himself out of the Mariners' price point.

[00:31:10] If he's a free agent, he's going to want, talking in the ballpark of relievers at age 31, he's going to try for a four-year deal, right?

[00:31:20] Four or five?

[00:31:22] Yeah, for what could be north of $55, $60 million for the way he's pitched, which is a lot.

[00:31:28] And I don't think the Mariners would go there even if they had a full budget.

[00:31:31] And when you have $15 million to spend all offseason, I doubt it's all going to one reliever.

[00:31:36] Yeah, I'm with you.

[00:31:37] I like Jeff Hoffman a lot.

[00:31:38] He's really good.

[00:31:39] And I think adding him to this bullpen would be awesome, especially because even though he is not Devin Williams or Ryan Helsley

[00:31:47] in terms of one of baseball's absolute upper echelon elite relievers, he's not that far off from that.

[00:31:53] He is a high-leverage reliever that would help this team a ton.

[00:31:57] And I love the idea that you could get him without giving up any prospects the way you'd have to if you traded for Devin Williams

[00:32:03] or if you traded for Ryan Helsley.

[00:32:06] But I think he is out of the Mariners' price range.

[00:32:09] I don't think the Mariners are going to offer him a three-year deal.

[00:32:12] I don't think they're going to offer him $10 million to $12 million AAV.

[00:32:15] If he was interested in a one- to two-year deal for somewhere between $10 million to $18 million,

[00:32:22] Mariners might be interested.

[00:32:23] I don't know if they're interested in this current iteration of the team and where their budgets are at.

[00:32:28] The Mariners believe too much in their pitching development to pay a four-year guaranteed contract reliever

[00:32:36] at that price point.

[00:32:37] Munoz has how many years guaranteed?

[00:32:40] A few years guaranteed.

[00:32:41] I can't remember off the top of my head.

[00:32:42] It's not a lot of money.

[00:32:44] Yeah, I was going to say, you got to remember, they extended him when he was 23, 24 years old,

[00:32:49] aka incredibly young.

[00:32:51] And it was a four- or five-year extension for something around $8 million.

[00:32:55] So it made all the sense in the world.

[00:32:58] And Mariners special.

[00:33:00] They didn't have to pay much money.

[00:33:02] Makes sense.

[00:33:03] It does seem- I was poking around.

[00:33:05] It does seem like he's favored to go back to the Phillies.

[00:33:08] Anyways, and the Phillies have no problem with their budget.

[00:33:11] So good for them.

[00:33:12] He's fantastic.

[00:33:13] Whichever team does end up getting him will really, really like it.

[00:33:17] I wish it could be the Mariners because they-

[00:33:19] Even if they can't do the price point, they need a reliever of his caliber on the roster.

[00:33:24] Probably an opening day.

[00:33:26] Yeah.

[00:33:26] If they can get that.

[00:33:28] Right.

[00:33:28] The second part of this, in terms of trading Munoz, that's where I get cold feet.

[00:33:33] I think you have to add a reliever and put them in the stable.

[00:33:37] Not add a reliever and then subtract off your roster another high-end reliever.

[00:33:42] You need more high-end relievers, period.

[00:33:44] I like the idea because Josh is clearly trying to get creative here and say, how do we get a real bat?

[00:33:50] How are we going to add offense?

[00:33:52] And we are open to all ideas here.

[00:33:54] It is not a terrible idea.

[00:33:56] Throwing the idea out there, there are no bad ideas at this point for how the Mariners could go get big bats.

[00:34:01] But I think you have got to keep your elite relievers in check and in your organization, especially when now there's reports that Brash is going to be back way earlier than we thought.

[00:34:11] You hope Santos stays healthy.

[00:34:14] Keep these guys together because this bullpen has to be a lot better than it was last year.

[00:34:18] When you think about trading Munoz, I want all of you listening and watching to ask yourself this question.

[00:34:23] Would the value of the bat you could bring back be worth the value of what Andres Munoz brings to the bullpen?

[00:34:32] Because you can ask yourself again, thinking back to last year's bullpen, when Scott Service or Dan Wilson emerged out of the dugout and he called on anyone besides Andres Munoz, how did you feel?

[00:34:44] The answer to that question is not very confident.

[00:34:47] So trading that guy away, I don't think does the team many favors.

[00:34:51] I've heard the argument that there would be some that would be concerned about Andres Munoz's workload from this past year.

[00:34:58] And if health-wise he would hold up or maybe he's already peaked, etc., etc., all these things.

[00:35:05] Those could be concerns in the future, but right now I don't think that's a train of thought the Mariners should be entering.

[00:35:11] I think they need to be adding to their bullpen and not subtracting.

[00:35:15] Because if they do subtract, it's going to be really tough to make up.

[00:35:18] They would need to have one of their best pitching development years they've had with Jerry DiPoto to offset that.

[00:35:26] And I don't see how that would be the case off the run of health they've had and the run of great development they've had.

[00:35:32] How does it get better?

[00:35:33] I don't think it gets better.

[00:35:35] It doesn't.

[00:35:36] And to your point about the value, I don't think this is one you can quantify by war.

[00:35:41] When you say, well, this player's going to bring X war if you bring him in to be a hitter, where Munoz is a reliever and he's going to put up X amount of war as a reliever.

[00:35:48] I don't think it's apples to apples here.

[00:35:51] Because if you go to that bullpen late, the hitter you've acquired, let's just say it's Jordan Westberg to throw it out there.

[00:35:57] Munoz would go back to Baltimore in a big package.

[00:35:59] If Westberg hits a home run and a double in that game and he helps put you up by one run going into the ninth inning, but your bullpen is incredibly shaky and you don't have a reliable guy back there in the ninth inning, you're in trouble.

[00:36:13] All the work that Jordan Westberg would have hypothetically just done offensively throughout the game could go by the wayside in three batters.

[00:36:21] So yeah, you can't trade elite relievers off this roster.

[00:36:24] You need them all.

[00:36:24] Well, hitters you trade for two, you're trading for their value playing in a different ballpark, not their value playing in T-Mobile Park.

[00:36:32] And their value in T-Mobile Park will be lower.

[00:36:34] Just remember that.

[00:36:35] So I'm not for trading Munoz.

[00:36:38] The only way I even think about entertaining Andres Munoz is if you are getting a stud back.

[00:36:44] Legit major league stud back.

[00:36:46] Mayors have already made a trade for a reliever like that.

[00:36:49] But Edwin Diaz, when they traded him, had quite a higher value than Andres Munoz did.

[00:36:55] So that's something the Mariners will have to chew on as this offseason goes along.

[00:37:00] Next question comes from Colin on Twitter.

[00:37:03] His question is, better holiday movie, planes, trains, and automobiles, or National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation?

[00:37:11] You tell me.

[00:37:12] I've seen neither of these.

[00:37:14] Can you say that?

[00:37:16] Sorry.

[00:37:17] Can you say that again?

[00:37:20] Yeah.

[00:37:20] I've seen neither of these movies.

[00:37:22] So I have no review.

[00:37:25] Hold on.

[00:37:25] I'm trying to process this right now.

[00:37:28] So you're telling me one of the most famous Thanksgiving movies and one of the most famous Christmas movies you've just flat out never seen?

[00:37:39] I've seen other Christmas movies, but not that one.

[00:37:44] No.

[00:37:45] You know, I've gotten shit on this podcast for not seeing Field of Dreams.

[00:37:50] A lot of shit.

[00:37:51] This is a baseball podcast.

[00:37:53] These movies are rated higher than Field of Dreams is.

[00:37:57] We're not a holiday podcast.

[00:37:58] We're a baseball podcast.

[00:38:00] We went to the Field of Dreams and you're like, well, I'm just not going to see that movie.

[00:38:04] Okay.

[00:38:04] Well, they didn't even bother putting up the corn.

[00:38:07] Didn't bother putting up the corn.

[00:38:08] It didn't rain enough that spring.

[00:38:11] They didn't have crops.

[00:38:11] It didn't put up there.

[00:38:12] It didn't rain enough.

[00:38:14] Yes.

[00:38:16] Excuses.

[00:38:17] Now you're blaming Mother Nature?

[00:38:19] Yes.

[00:38:20] Yeah.

[00:38:20] Exactly.

[00:38:21] Yes, I am.

[00:38:23] Hmm.

[00:38:24] Well.

[00:38:25] I'm disappointed, Lyle.

[00:38:26] That's really disappointing.

[00:38:27] L's in the chat.

[00:38:28] YouTube.

[00:38:29] DM us.

[00:38:30] L's in the chat for Lyle for not seeing either of these movies.

[00:38:33] I barely heard.

[00:38:34] Now, which one of these movies is actually better?

[00:38:36] I'm going to say National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation.

[00:38:39] It is just the perfect mix of personalities, I think.

[00:38:45] Just, I think it's a little funnier, too.

[00:38:47] So, that's, and I will say, I look forward to it a little bit more than watching Planes, Trains, and Automobiles.

[00:38:54] But, both are fantastic.

[00:38:57] Wow.

[00:38:57] Can't be as good as Home Alone or Home Alone 2.

[00:39:00] No, that's fair.

[00:39:01] Those are really good movies.

[00:39:03] Maybe the next mailbag will debate the validity of those movies.

[00:39:07] Yeah.

[00:39:07] I think you have some homework this holiday season.

[00:39:11] Apparently.

[00:39:11] I've got a lot of movies on my list all of a sudden to watch from people that say, yeah, you haven't seen this, you haven't seen this, you haven't seen this, you haven't seen this.

[00:39:17] Yeah, I barely heard of these two movies, so I guess I do have homework.

[00:39:23] Unbelievable.

[00:39:24] If, like, if people wanted to send in questions about Home Alone or Elf or what are other Christmas movies?

[00:39:30] Is the Polar Express a Christmas movie?

[00:39:32] I think it is.

[00:39:32] Yeah, it's a Christmas movie.

[00:39:34] Go to the North Pole.

[00:39:35] Yeah.

[00:39:37] I can talk about those, but I've barely heard of these two movies.

[00:39:41] Or if you really want to hear Lyle talk, SpongeBob and South Park.

[00:39:45] Oh, those are good, too.

[00:39:47] Actually, sorry, those are good.

[00:39:49] Those are great.

[00:39:50] Send in questions about that.

[00:39:52] Send in questions about that.

[00:39:54] Anyway.

[00:39:56] All right.

[00:39:56] Let's get to a couple more of these mailbag questions.

[00:39:58] Let's go to Instagram.

[00:39:59] This is from Jacob Mayer.

[00:40:01] He says, if you could redesign the City Connect jerseys to anything, what would you choose?

[00:40:07] I'm just going to go.

[00:40:08] I'm just going to rip the Band-Aid all the way off.

[00:40:10] When the NBA announces the Sonics are coming back, Mariners need to wear a green and gold colored jersey.

[00:40:20] Just a one-off.

[00:40:21] They need to sell them in the team store.

[00:40:23] However, I think of this this way.

[00:40:26] We need a new Coachella jersey.

[00:40:29] Hmm.

[00:40:30] I see what you're saying.

[00:40:32] Wouldn't that be pretty cool?

[00:40:33] You need to explain your whole Coachella jersey definition to people.

[00:40:37] I think it's been a year since I've explained my Coachella jersey thing.

[00:40:41] The Coachella jersey, you just need this one-off random jersey.

[00:40:45] So you look cool when you show up to Coachella.

[00:40:48] And people at Coachella, if you're unfamiliar, dress vibrantly, I think is a good word to put it.

[00:40:54] So if you're going to wear a sports jersey there, it needs to be a banger of a sports jersey.

[00:40:58] You can't just show up in your white 44 Julio Rodriguez jersey.

[00:41:02] No, it needs to be niche.

[00:41:04] It needs to be colorful.

[00:41:05] It needs to be totally unique.

[00:41:07] And what better than a one-off Sonics-themed Mariners jersey?

[00:41:13] You mean like a City Connect Tommy La Stella jersey?

[00:41:18] Oh, yes.

[00:41:22] Or the other thing about these Coachella jerseys that also fit your definition is they have to just be totally random players that should never be seen on jerseys.

[00:41:30] But that's what you're wearing at Coachella because you probably don't care about getting it dirty or messing it up.

[00:41:35] Like if you had a Carlos Pagaro jersey, you could wear that to Coachella.

[00:41:38] That's a Coachella jersey.

[00:41:39] If people forgot Lyle's Tommy La Stella reference there, he ran into somebody last year or two years ago.

[00:41:46] Sorry, 2023.

[00:41:47] It was start of 2024.

[00:41:49] So start of 2024 with a City Connect Tommy La Stella jersey.

[00:41:54] Tommy La Stella was cut from the Mariners before the City Connect jerseys came out.

[00:41:59] That level of, I don't know, do you call it degeneracy?

[00:42:04] What do you call that?

[00:42:05] Yes, because that wasn't some DHgate knockoff jersey.

[00:42:09] That was a real City Connect jersey that had Tommy La Stella on it.

[00:42:13] And I'm sitting there asking this guy, asking, you didn't want anybody else that you could have picked for those City Connect jerseys?

[00:42:20] He's like, well, this is actually my friend's jersey.

[00:42:22] I'm just borrowing it.

[00:42:23] And I'm like, what was his reasoning?

[00:42:25] And he's like, I got to be honest.

[00:42:26] I don't really know.

[00:42:31] I think that would be pretty cool.

[00:42:33] I keep thinking of the Mariners jump ahead to the future jerseys.

[00:42:37] And they just need to find a way to just recreate a fun version of that.

[00:42:40] And everyone misses the Sonics.

[00:42:42] So why not?

[00:42:43] I was going to say, I don't like those turn ahead to clock jerseys.

[00:42:46] I don't think they're very good.

[00:42:48] But if you were to wear something to Coachella.

[00:42:51] Yeah.

[00:42:52] Yeah, you would wear that.

[00:42:53] Especially because it's a tank top jersey.

[00:42:55] Right.

[00:42:56] But the colors make no sense.

[00:42:58] The Mariners are not black and red.

[00:43:01] It's odd.

[00:43:02] I could buy into the whole Sonics idea for a one-off jersey for one game a year.

[00:43:08] The only thing about that is if you do that too often, you're going to start becoming the Red Sox where your City Connect jerseys get made fun of because it looks like UCLA.

[00:43:16] When I say one-off, I mean legitimately they're going to wear them one time ever.

[00:43:20] Okay.

[00:43:21] If I were to redesign the City Connect jersey, see the problem here is I would probably use teal, but they already have teal on a jersey, so that wouldn't work.

[00:43:29] I would say something like North, well no, Northwest green is teal.

[00:43:33] That's what they call that color for the Mariners jerseys is Northwest green.

[00:43:37] I would say if I could design or reshape anything about those City Connect jerseys, maybe I'd go white pants instead of black.

[00:43:45] I don't hate the black pants, but if they had gone white with those blue jerseys, that would be cool.

[00:43:52] I feel like Seattle uses all of its colors already though.

[00:43:55] They use teal, they use blue, they use navy blue, they use white.

[00:43:58] I'm trying to even think what other colors you could use.

[00:44:02] Gray for all the rain.

[00:44:04] Well, they got rid of gray jerseys.

[00:44:07] Maybe they bring it back.

[00:44:10] These are our misery uniforms.

[00:44:15] With just clouds on them?

[00:44:17] Yeah, clouds and it's essentially, here's what you call them.

[00:44:20] You call them the 20-year drought jerseys.

[00:44:23] Yeah.

[00:44:25] There's just patches of all these random Mariners on the side.

[00:44:29] Instead of the Strauss patches like the postseason helmets had, you just have a patch with a bunch of names on it and it says Bedard, Pagaro, Figgins.

[00:44:40] Like, yeah.

[00:44:40] All the fallen ones.

[00:44:41] Danny Holtson.

[00:44:43] Yeah.

[00:44:45] I'm down.

[00:44:46] I'm down for that.

[00:44:48] All right, so there's our City Connect idea.

[00:44:52] Next question also is on Instagram.

[00:44:55] This comes from 7stringninja.

[00:44:58] And the question is, if you could have any player from baseball history at their peak on the 2025 Mariners, who would you pick?

[00:45:06] Barry Bonds.

[00:45:07] Prime Barry Bonds.

[00:45:08] It's not close.

[00:45:10] I'm 100% with you.

[00:45:11] It's Barry Bonds, Ted Williams, and Babe Ruth.

[00:45:14] But Barry Bonds played more recently, so we'll pick him.

[00:45:19] Barry Bonds, in his prime, would look at the rest of this Mariners offense over the last couple years.

[00:45:25] And after walking 800 times in a season, and when he's not walking, he's just hitting balls out to Mercer Island.

[00:45:33] He'd also then come back to the dugout, and Barry Bonds, being the way he was at that time in his career, would look up and down the rest of this roster and be like,

[00:45:41] You guys can't hit worth a shit.

[00:45:44] It would be a tense clubhouse.

[00:45:46] Yeah.

[00:45:46] The passive aggressiveness would be off the wall.

[00:45:50] Oh, I don't even think it would be passive.

[00:45:52] I think Barry Bonds would be in that clubhouse telling other players that they should not be here.

[00:45:57] Could you imagine if Barry Bonds...

[00:45:59] Screw putting him on the 2025 Mariners.

[00:46:01] Let's put him on the 2023 Mariners, who struck out at that absurd pace, were terrible situationally, and Barry Bonds, like you said, reaches base 600 times in a season.

[00:46:13] And he's sitting there at the plate watching Teoscar fan on like a 93 middle-middle fastball.

[00:46:18] And he's like, you see the veins pulsing.

[00:46:23] Yeah.

[00:46:23] Yeah.

[00:46:24] All the roid veins.

[00:46:25] They're just, yeah, they're just popping right out of his head.

[00:46:27] Or forget the middle-middle fastball.

[00:46:29] I feel like usually Teo actually did hit those.

[00:46:31] No, the pitch he'd be just absolutely fuming at is when Teo would chase a slider 800 feet off the plate and swing at it for strike three, and then would walk back to the dugout.

[00:46:41] Do you know what Barry Bonds would do?

[00:46:43] He'd demand a trade.

[00:46:43] He would walk out there opening day 2023.

[00:46:46] Let's say the Mariners put him in left field.

[00:46:48] He'd stare at the lineup card and realize this organization who claims they're serious put Tommy Lastella at DH on opening day.

[00:46:58] He would take off his hat.

[00:47:00] He would walk back into the clubhouse.

[00:47:02] He'd change.

[00:47:03] He would drive home.

[00:47:04] He would phone Jerry on the way and say, I'm out.

[00:47:08] He would be as real-life a version of Jack Parkman as you can possibly get from Major League Two.

[00:47:15] Have you seen the second Major League movie?

[00:47:18] Maybe.

[00:47:20] Okay, basically quick backstory.

[00:47:22] They make the signing of the offseason.

[00:47:24] They sign this guy Jack Parkman who hits 40 to 50 homers a year, is going to change the offense.

[00:47:30] People are fired up about it, but he's the biggest asshole of all time.

[00:47:33] He gets the spring training.

[00:47:35] He's telling every player that they suck.

[00:47:37] He's talking shit to everybody on the roster.

[00:47:40] And finally, he does this interview where people are asking him questions.

[00:47:43] And he goes, I'm the only winner on this team.

[00:47:46] Everybody else is a loser, either by choice or by birth.

[00:47:49] And then he gets traded the next day.

[00:47:53] That sounds pretty accurate.

[00:47:55] I think that's about what Barry Bonds would do if he was on this roster.

[00:47:57] He'd just go off for a month and a half, look up and down the rest of the roster, and then be like, I'm out of here.

[00:48:03] The only thing I would say to Barry Bonds in that context, you know what I'm about to say.

[00:48:08] He's out of line, but he's right.

[00:48:11] But he's right.

[00:48:13] That is an Anthony Mackie reference for those who don't get that one from Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

[00:48:18] Yeah.

[00:48:19] Okay, we got two questions to go.

[00:48:22] This next one is from, I hope I get this name right.

[00:48:27] I think it's Soren.

[00:48:28] He's got some other letters after that, but I think his first name is Soren.

[00:48:31] Let's go with that.

[00:48:32] Yeah.

[00:48:32] This next question is from Soren on Instagram, and he says, I think this is somebody that's probably early on in their Mariners fandom, just from the way this question is phrased.

[00:48:44] But we will read it anyway.

[00:48:47] Will the Mariners ever make it to the playoffs again in my lifetime?

[00:48:51] He does say for context he's 19 years old.

[00:48:55] The short version is yes.

[00:48:59] The longer version is if you think this current playoff drought is tough.

[00:49:06] Soren.

[00:49:11] You probably had some years.

[00:49:13] You remember how much worse it was.

[00:49:16] So I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[00:49:19] Yes, they will make the playoffs.

[00:49:20] If Soren was asking, will the Mariners make the World Series in my lifetime?

[00:49:27] I wouldn't have an answer for you.

[00:49:30] I wouldn't either.

[00:49:31] What would your answer be if somebody asked, will they win the World Series in our lifetime?

[00:49:35] Is it still no answer or is it full-blown no?

[00:49:37] It's no.

[00:49:40] What's the point of getting my hopes up, Lyle?

[00:49:43] Do I want to be disappointed?

[00:49:44] Do I want to be like a Cubs fan that was born in like, say, 1930 and never saw them win a World Series?

[00:49:52] But you would have been 85?

[00:49:55] So people were alive to see the World Series for the Cubs.

[00:49:59] No, you've been 90.

[00:50:01] No.

[00:50:08] If you were born in 1930, you'd be 70 in the year 2000.

[00:50:11] You'd be 80 in the year 2010.

[00:50:12] So you'd be 85 or 86 in 2016 when they won.

[00:50:15] Right.

[00:50:16] Yeah.

[00:50:16] I corrected myself to 86.

[00:50:18] Okay.

[00:50:19] So now maybe if you were born in 1920, it gets a little dicier.

[00:50:25] I just don't want to give false hope.

[00:50:27] Could you imagine you were born in 1920 as a Cubs fan?

[00:50:30] Despite all the other crap that went on in the world over the course of your life, Lyle, if you just think about it, just absolute insanity.

[00:50:36] On top of that, your parents, as you grew up a Cubs fan somewhere in Chicago, are telling you, they're going to win a World Series.

[00:50:43] They're going to win a World Series.

[00:50:44] Trust me.

[00:50:46] And you never get to see it.

[00:50:47] How depressing is that to think about?

[00:50:50] Imagine being born in 1997 or 1998.

[00:50:53] Now you have doubts about your own team that may or may not be named the Seattle Mariners winning a World Series in your lifetime.

[00:50:59] That's interesting.

[00:51:03] Well, actually.

[00:51:04] Different perspective, but yes.

[00:51:06] Well, and forget the two of us because those were the years that we were born.

[00:51:10] People that were born or even in their adulthood when the Mariners were formulated.

[00:51:16] There have been people waiting a long time.

[00:51:17] There have been people that have been Mariners fans for 45 years, and they're probably starting to get real nervous.

[00:51:24] Let's hope so.

[00:51:25] But if you were going to tell me to pick one or the other, I would say no.

[00:51:28] But playoffs, Soren, yes, they will make the playoffs again.

[00:51:32] That I could almost guarantee.

[00:51:34] Especially now that it's in a field where 14 of the 30 teams get in every year.

[00:51:39] Right.

[00:51:40] And it's been proven you don't actually need to be great to make it.

[00:51:44] You'd be an average team.

[00:51:45] Or sorry.

[00:51:46] Let me correct myself.

[00:51:47] 12 of the 30.

[00:51:49] Let's get to our last mailbag question.

[00:51:51] This comes from T underscore Phil 05 on Instagram.

[00:51:55] The question is, what's more important in 2025?

[00:51:58] A Julio Rodriguez MVP or a Brian Wu or Bryce Miller Cy Young Award?

[00:52:05] Julio.

[00:52:06] This is all about offense, right?

[00:52:08] Everything we talk about revolving around the Mariners offseason is about how they're going to get better offensively.

[00:52:13] Well, if they have somebody on offense win an MVP, I think things are going right.

[00:52:18] I keep going back to the ballpark on this.

[00:52:21] Think about because the team has to play all these games in this ballpark.

[00:52:25] What would be a more impressive feat in that ballpark?

[00:52:27] Winning a Cy Young or winning an MVP?

[00:52:29] It's winning an MVP.

[00:52:30] It's just harder.

[00:52:32] Julio would have to work harder than Bryce Miller or Brian Wu to win that award, right?

[00:52:40] Yes.

[00:52:41] 100%.

[00:52:41] It is so hard to hit in T-Mobile Park.

[00:52:44] It is far and away the toughest hitters park in baseball.

[00:52:47] So, yeah.

[00:52:48] To go 40-40 in that ballpark?

[00:52:51] To hit well in that ballpark for a whole season?

[00:52:54] Yeah, it's way harder.

[00:52:55] Also, there's no caveats to this question.

[00:52:59] There's no saying that Julio in this scenario can't win the MVP,

[00:53:03] but Bryce Miller and Brian Wu finished third and fourth in AL Cy Young voting,

[00:53:07] which would mean they'd have all-star level seasons and Cy Young caliber seasons.

[00:53:10] They just wouldn't hold up the trophy.

[00:53:12] I also think it's more important for Julio to get deep into the MVP conversation at this point

[00:53:17] than Bryce Miller or Brian Wu need to be at the top of the Cy Young conversation.

[00:53:22] The Mariners need Julio based on their self-imposed budget and just the talent he possesses to be top five in MVP,

[00:53:31] hopefully starting next year with a new hitting staff with the Mariners,

[00:53:34] with a redefined offseason approach after what he did last season didn't work,

[00:53:39] as opposed to Bryce Miller and Brian Wu don't even have to be the second best starters in their own rotation.

[00:53:46] They could be the third and fourth best.

[00:53:49] It's true.

[00:53:50] They could be the fourth and fifth best.

[00:53:53] Now, we think they'll be better than that, but there's a little bit more pressure on Julio in this scenario.

[00:53:58] I think it would bring a lot more impact for Julio to win MVP.

[00:54:02] If Julio wins MVP, the Mariners are going to be in a very good place.

[00:54:05] They'll probably be in the playoffs.

[00:54:06] They'll probably win over 90 games, barring disaster on the pitching side,

[00:54:10] and I think it would give the Mariners as good a chance as ever to win a World Series.

[00:54:14] Which is yet another reason it's such an eye roll and so frustrating that the Mariners operate the way that they do

[00:54:21] because they're putting unfair pressure on a kid who's just about to turn 24 years old,

[00:54:26] last year was turning 23 years old,

[00:54:28] to be the guy and to have a 40-40 type season,

[00:54:33] to have an MVP type season when he's so young and early on in his career.

[00:54:37] They won't get the guy more help by adding actual impact offensive talent to the roster.

[00:54:43] That being said, as disappointing and feeble as that mindset is,

[00:54:49] as we mentioned on Wednesday with a few adjectives,

[00:54:52] this is what they've got.

[00:54:54] This is how they're going to operate.

[00:54:55] And by operating like this, yes, Julio has to play like an MVP

[00:54:59] for this team to have a chance to make the World Series.

[00:55:02] So for him to win one, that's more important.

[00:55:05] And he's coming up on season number four too.

[00:55:07] Bryce and Brian are going to be in year two and a half.

[00:55:11] A little bit more pressure when you get to that point.

[00:55:14] Even though it's not age, Julio is technically a veteran now.

[00:55:19] Close to it at least, yeah.

[00:55:24] We'll see what he can do.

[00:55:25] We'll see what 2025 looks like.

[00:55:27] If it looks like the first few months of 2024,

[00:55:30] I think they're going to be in a tough spot.

[00:55:32] So they need him to bounce back.

[00:55:34] Okay, quick one here, Lyle,

[00:55:35] because people will be listening to this after Thanksgiving.

[00:55:39] If we're going to,

[00:55:40] if you're going to tell the people what you ate first on Thanksgiving,

[00:55:44] what is it?

[00:55:46] You know this.

[00:55:47] Anybody that listens to Brock and Salk knows this.

[00:55:49] Just mounds of cranberry sauce.

[00:55:51] Before you put anything else on your plate.

[00:55:54] Yeah.

[00:55:56] You're a psychopath.

[00:55:59] Oh, it's,

[00:56:00] and I'm going to eat a ton of it the days after Thanksgiving too.

[00:56:03] You're just,

[00:56:04] this is,

[00:56:05] it's just revolting to listen to.

[00:56:07] No,

[00:56:08] it's amazing to listen to.

[00:56:10] No.

[00:56:11] The first thing.

[00:56:13] God.

[00:56:13] No,

[00:56:14] it's,

[00:56:14] it's great.

[00:56:16] It is great.

[00:56:18] It's not as great as cranberry sauce.

[00:56:19] You're not even going to put a roll down on your plate to put the cranberry sauce on.

[00:56:25] No,

[00:56:25] I eat it straight like a real person.

[00:56:29] I think you need help.

[00:56:32] Have you done,

[00:56:32] I heard on the show,

[00:56:34] they suggested you do peanut butter and cranberry sauce.

[00:56:36] Have you done that yet?

[00:56:38] No,

[00:56:38] because I'm going to wait till after Thanksgiving to do it,

[00:56:40] but I have homework to have a peanut butter and cranberry sauce sandwich,

[00:56:45] give a review on the show.

[00:56:46] And then if you want to review,

[00:56:47] I'll give a review on here too.

[00:56:52] It's going to be,

[00:56:53] Oh,

[00:56:53] I think it's going to be really good.

[00:56:58] I'm going to,

[00:56:58] I forget exactly.

[00:56:59] We ordered something.

[00:57:00] We're not cooking Turkey this year.

[00:57:02] Cause we're,

[00:57:02] we're down here in Oregon.

[00:57:03] So yeah,

[00:57:07] it's good.

[00:57:07] I forget exactly the meat we ordered,

[00:57:09] but it's probably going to be that,

[00:57:10] that and dessert.

[00:57:12] Do you guys need actual,

[00:57:13] do you guys need actual Thanksgiving food on Thanksgiving aside from the Turkey?

[00:57:16] Or is it just something from a restaurant?

[00:57:18] We didn't order Turkey this year.

[00:57:19] I forget what it is.

[00:57:20] Like,

[00:57:20] you know what momofuku is?

[00:57:22] No,

[00:57:23] I don't think restaurant.

[00:57:24] It's,

[00:57:24] it's a high end chain restaurant and we ordered on a gold belly.

[00:57:28] So we'll,

[00:57:28] we'll see what it is.

[00:57:29] It's not Turkey.

[00:57:31] Okay.

[00:57:31] I guess what I'm asking is even aside from the Turkey,

[00:57:34] are you guys eating things like mashed potatoes and stuffing still,

[00:57:36] or is it just food from the restaurant?

[00:57:38] I can't remember.

[00:57:38] It's all,

[00:57:39] we're not making anything.

[00:57:40] I don't think.

[00:57:41] Okay.

[00:57:42] All right.

[00:57:42] Fair enough.

[00:57:43] People do that.

[00:57:44] I mean,

[00:57:45] people do that more and more on Thanksgiving now that they just order food rather than

[00:57:48] make something,

[00:57:49] but yeah,

[00:57:49] it's a good way to support businesses too.

[00:57:52] Yeah,

[00:57:52] it is.

[00:57:53] That being said,

[00:57:54] I will be eating a ton of cranberry sauce.

[00:57:56] So,

[00:57:56] well,

[00:57:56] good for you.

[00:57:56] Good thing.

[00:57:57] Are you the only person in your family likes cranberry sauce?

[00:58:01] I mean,

[00:58:01] other people eat it.

[00:58:03] It doesn't even hold a candle to the amount that I eat,

[00:58:05] but yeah.

[00:58:07] Okay.

[00:58:08] Okay.

[00:58:09] Well,

[00:58:09] I'm sure people are going to be squirming listening to this.

[00:58:11] So I hope you're happy.

[00:58:14] Their loss.

[00:58:16] Their loss.

[00:58:17] All right.

[00:58:18] I think that just about wraps up this edition of the Marine layer podcast.

[00:58:22] You guys know the drill.

[00:58:23] If you want to listen to the full form podcast,

[00:58:25] make sure to do so wherever you get your audio pods,

[00:58:27] make sure to download,

[00:58:28] make sure to rate and review.

[00:58:29] Please leave a five-star review.

[00:58:31] It helps us out a ton.

[00:58:32] If you do,

[00:58:32] if you're watching on YouTube,

[00:58:33] like comment and hit that subscribe button.

[00:58:35] It's easy.

[00:58:36] It's right in front of you.

[00:58:37] You see that button that says subscribe,

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[00:58:49] That's TJ.

[00:58:50] I'm Lyle.

[00:58:51] As always,

[00:58:51] we thank you guys for tuning in.

[00:58:52] We'll talk to you soon.