Episode 193: Mariners Offseason Reaches A Lowpoint + What Else Can They Do At First Base?

[00:00:00] Welcome to Episode 193 of the Marine Layer Podcast. The Mariners Offseason is not really going in the right direction. What can they do? What's left? We'll try and dive into it in this episode and figure something out.

[00:00:14] Your guys reminder, before we start this podcast, everybody, do us a favor. Download these episodes if you're listening. If you're on the audio side, hit download, go rate and review, leave it five stars. We're trying to get all those Apple ratings and reviews up and then we'll read some of them on the show. So keep leaving those reviews, leave them five stars.

[00:00:29] It does help us out a lot. If you're watching on YouTube, make sure to like, comment and please hit that subscribe button. That really does support the channel. If you're on social media, we know most of you are. You can find us on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube Shorts, Blue Sky. We're posting every day at Marine Layer Pod.

[00:00:47] Let's get it rolling.

[00:01:00] And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network, recording on Monday afternoon, December 23rd.

[00:01:10] Want to wish all of our listeners a happy holidays. You'll be listening to this episode a day earlier than usual, this coming out on Christmas Eve.

[00:01:18] But recording the day before, Lyle, we would like to officially celebrate a different holiday here to start off this episode.

[00:01:26] It's Festivus.

[00:01:28] So we thought it was only proper from all of us Mariner fans to wish Mariner's ownership a happy Festivus.

[00:01:37] The tradition of Festivus begins with the airing of grievances.

[00:01:42] I got a lot of problems with you people.

[00:01:45] Now, you're going to hear about it.

[00:01:47] You, Kroger, my son tells me your company stinks.

[00:01:52] Oh God.

[00:01:56] As Frank Costanza would say, Festivus is back.

[00:02:03] It could not be better timing for that clip.

[00:02:06] Two seasons in a row.

[00:02:08] The Festivus clip just hits in the perfect spot.

[00:02:13] At the perfect time too, when they're really doing absolutely nothing in this offseason.

[00:02:20] At least this time they're not shedding payroll off the roster, but it's not like it's much better.

[00:02:25] This time they just haven't done anything.

[00:02:28] No.

[00:02:28] Nothing.

[00:02:29] What a weekend, Lyle.

[00:02:31] Five first basemen off the board this weekend?

[00:02:34] Mm-hmm.

[00:02:35] Did any of those guys go to Seattle?

[00:02:40] No.

[00:02:41] Man, we were...

[00:02:43] People can go back and listen if they're interested.

[00:02:45] We hosted Brock and Salk on 710 Seattle Sports on Friday.

[00:02:48] We filled in for those guys.

[00:02:49] They were both off.

[00:02:51] And Christian Walker signed with the Astros with the announcement flooding in while we are on the air.

[00:02:58] And if you want our live, just raw reaction, you can go listen at the start of 930.

[00:03:04] I guess technically it came out while we were in our five-minute break during the commercial break.

[00:03:09] But it was basically the same.

[00:03:11] We're saying things along the lines of,

[00:03:13] We went to the Astros of all teams, the Astros.

[00:03:18] Yeah.

[00:03:18] We sat there and assumed, I think at that point, because we hadn't seen the money yet, and the money didn't come out until we were done,

[00:03:23] that the Astros gave him the fourth year he was looking for and that no other team wanted to do.

[00:03:28] No, it was a completely reasonable $3 or $60 million deal.

[00:03:32] Pretty similar to the deal they gave Jose Abreu.

[00:03:35] Hmm.

[00:03:35] It was like right in line, it felt like, with what his market was eventually going to be.

[00:03:40] And he just decided on Houston.

[00:03:43] That was the same amount that the Mariners looked at and said, we can't afford that money.

[00:03:50] I've prepared a little monologue here about Christian Walker.

[00:03:54] If you follow us on social media, you'll have heard something like this before.

[00:03:57] This is another incentive for you to do so.

[00:04:00] This was a player the Mariners had significant interest in.

[00:04:05] Unfortunately, he's now off to Houston.

[00:04:08] So you can cross Christian Walker off the list.

[00:04:15] Yep.

[00:04:16] Yep.

[00:04:17] That's what I have to say about Christian Walker signing with the Houston Astros.

[00:04:21] Sad.

[00:04:22] Again, like you said, no fourth year, no $80 million, three for 60.

[00:04:27] Exactly what the two of us have been predicting for weeks.

[00:04:31] But no.

[00:04:32] Nope.

[00:04:33] The Mariners' first base market has essentially evaporated into thin air.

[00:04:40] Well.

[00:04:40] Some of the other guys to go off the board this weekend.

[00:04:43] Paul Goldschmidt signed a one-year deal with the Yankees.

[00:04:46] Josh Naylor was traded for a high upside arm and slight.

[00:04:50] How do you say his last name?

[00:04:51] Ciccone.

[00:04:52] Ciccone.

[00:04:53] He was in the Cape League when we were in the Cape League.

[00:04:55] You never called any of the teams?

[00:04:56] Dude, that was six years ago.

[00:04:57] But I still remember the name.

[00:04:59] I don't think I ever saw him play in person.

[00:05:02] Well, he was a first-round pick.

[00:05:03] Anyway, whatever.

[00:05:04] I know.

[00:05:04] He throws hard.

[00:05:05] He's got really good stuff.

[00:05:06] And he carved up the Mariners this past year.

[00:05:08] But he really struggled this year.

[00:05:10] He bounced between the majors and the minors.

[00:05:11] Spent some time in the bullpen, too.

[00:05:14] All the Diamondbacks needed to give up for Josh Naylor was him and a draft pick.

[00:05:18] And they got him.

[00:05:20] Mm-hmm.

[00:05:21] Okay.

[00:05:23] So, I was going to say, looking at that package felt like something the Mariners could have

[00:05:27] easily matched if they wanted to.

[00:05:28] And then finally, and we'll get into this one in a little bit more detail in a bit,

[00:05:32] Carlos Santana goes back to Cleveland.

[00:05:35] Yes.

[00:05:36] And to round it all out, on Sunday, Nathaniel Lowe gets traded from the Rangers to the

[00:05:41] Nationals.

[00:05:42] Let's say this.

[00:05:43] Of the four non-Christian Walker first basemen to either be signed or traded for this weekend,

[00:05:49] which one hurt you the most or stung the most?

[00:05:52] I think we all know Walker was the one that takes the cake.

[00:05:55] But besides him, who of those other four?

[00:05:58] If you wanted the best player who fits what they view as a desirable player, it's Josh Naylor.

[00:06:04] It wasn't some absurd price he went for.

[00:06:07] Mariners have so many young pitchers.

[00:06:09] We love so many of these guys, Lyle.

[00:06:11] But when it comes to upgrading the roster, if you were willing to part with one of those

[00:06:16] guys plus a draft pick, which they have a competitive balance pick, by the way, a better

[00:06:20] competitive balance pick than the Diamondbacks have.

[00:06:23] If you really say, well, would we rather have a draft pick and a pitcher or Josh Naylor?

[00:06:30] At this point for 2025, I would rather have Josh Naylor.

[00:06:33] I think for me, it's Nathaniel Lowe, to be honest with you.

[00:06:36] Gave up less, has the extra year of club control.

[00:06:39] I actually like the player a little bit better than Naylor.

[00:06:41] He feels a little bit more along the lines of a model of consistency.

[00:06:45] Plus, he plays good defense while Naylor doesn't.

[00:06:47] The Nathaniel Lowe one hurt.

[00:06:49] That one didn't feel as realistic, though, because I just didn't see the Rangers trading

[00:06:53] him in division.

[00:06:54] Okay, so here's my counterpoint to that.

[00:06:55] I know usually teams aren't going to want to trade at least stars within their division.

[00:07:01] Is Nathaniel Lowe a star?

[00:07:02] It's not like he's Mike Trout.

[00:07:04] He's not Jose Altuve.

[00:07:05] He's not even Brent Rooker when you talk about the Mariners trying to acquire Rooker and not

[00:07:09] having any success.

[00:07:10] It's Nathaniel Lowe.

[00:07:11] You know, the Mariners traded for Ryan Healy back in 18 after he had a decent year in

[00:07:16] Oakland.

[00:07:16] It's not impossible.

[00:07:17] He's better than Ryan Healy is.

[00:07:18] He is better than Ryan Healy.

[00:07:20] I'm just saying, a guy like that doesn't feel like the type of player where you say,

[00:07:24] well, we can't trade this guy in division.

[00:07:26] We just can't.

[00:07:27] He feels like he's good enough to not trade in division.

[00:07:31] He's good.

[00:07:32] The price shocked me.

[00:07:34] They acquired a high upside reliever.

[00:07:36] They essentially just saved $10 million that they then reinvested into Jock Peterson.

[00:07:42] But still, the price is what hurt me the most with Nathaniel Lowe.

[00:07:47] That one just never felt like the Mariners were ever going to be able to pull that off

[00:07:51] in division without severely overpaying, which again, we know they don't do.

[00:07:55] Whether or not they should, that's not in Jerry DiPoto's philosophy to go overpay for a first

[00:08:02] baseman.

[00:08:04] If you were going to go overpay for any of them, you could have just overpaid for Josh

[00:08:08] Kneeler because I guarantee you they could have beat the Diamondbacks package pretty easily.

[00:08:13] Or you just overpay for Christian Walker.

[00:08:15] It's just money, no prospects.

[00:08:17] Or you can do what happened to Carlos Santana where the report came out this morning that

[00:08:23] this was Ken Rosenthal, I believe, who reported this.

[00:08:27] So Carlos Santana signs a one-year $12 million deal with the Guardians.

[00:08:33] The Mariners reportedly offered Carlos Santana a one plus one, so they gave him a year guaranteed

[00:08:39] and then a player option for Carlos Santana.

[00:08:42] And he still chose the Guardians.

[00:08:45] Yeah, that's a tough blow.

[00:08:48] I think the Mariners thought they were going to get this one done.

[00:08:50] I really do.

[00:08:51] I think they believed Carlos Santana was going to be back in Seattle.

[00:08:55] Especially because when you heard Ryan Divish talking about even weeks ago, yeah, they're

[00:08:59] hoping to get a deal done with Santana in the next week.

[00:09:02] They're hoping to have him in the fold before or at the winter meetings.

[00:09:06] I mean, you just heard all these leaks come out that basically made it clear as day.

[00:09:10] Yeah, the Mariners want Santana in their plans here.

[00:09:12] It very clearly fell through at the 11th hour or at some point in time because he's not

[00:09:19] coming to Seattle.

[00:09:20] Well, he's going to be a Guardian.

[00:09:22] What's frustrating about this one is it has nothing to do with like they didn't offer him

[00:09:26] enough.

[00:09:27] They offered him more.

[00:09:29] They outbid the Guardians.

[00:09:31] And he just still decided to go elsewhere.

[00:09:33] I will say I think this speaks a lot about his relationship with Cleveland than it does

[00:09:38] about his relationship with the Mariners.

[00:09:41] But it's troubling that the Mariners got to the point where they had essentially set their

[00:09:46] sights on Carlos Santana as their guy at first base.

[00:09:49] Carlos overpaid for him and still turned them down.

[00:09:53] That's a problem.

[00:09:55] Oh, it's a problem.

[00:09:56] It's a philosophical problem.

[00:09:58] It's a talent evaluation problem.

[00:10:00] It's a budget problem.

[00:10:01] Every sort of problem you could possibly list for how they decided to operate looking for

[00:10:07] a first baseman.

[00:10:08] All the boxes got checked for this is an issue here.

[00:10:12] Yeah, I don't I don't think this is a the Mariners have a deeper plan in the works and that's

[00:10:18] why they didn't go and get any of these guys.

[00:10:21] Something tells me they misjudged the first base market.

[00:10:24] All these guys came off the board and clearly they had chips invested in Santana and with

[00:10:30] the thought that he was going to return.

[00:10:32] I think now they're scrambling for plan B not oh we let all these things play out before

[00:10:39] we make our move.

[00:10:40] I don't think it was a chestnut checkers thing.

[00:10:43] I think one of these at least one of these guys that came off the board this weekend

[00:10:46] they were hoping to get in the fold and they either misjudged what the market was going

[00:10:50] to be or they just don't have the budget relationships means or all of the above to have gotten it

[00:10:58] done.

[00:10:59] From what we can tell this was the first Mariners first base strategy this offseason.

[00:11:04] This is what it seemed from a sourcing perspective from all the reports that was out there.

[00:11:08] The two options based on trade availability and free agency was Tristan Casas and Christian

[00:11:15] Walker.

[00:11:16] Walker it seemed like they checked in on him saw the price was too high for what they

[00:11:20] were willing to spend backed out of it.

[00:11:22] Tristan Casas the Red Sox were not willing to move and now don't need a starting pitcher

[00:11:26] in Luis Castillo.

[00:11:27] Those two go off the board.

[00:11:28] They have Carlos Santana in their mind once they realize that that's how the market is

[00:11:33] formed.

[00:11:33] They make a good offer to Carlos Santana and he still decides to go elsewhere.

[00:11:37] And now they held their hand out trying to get something and they're still holding their

[00:11:41] hands out empty handed.

[00:11:43] That's what it seems like.

[00:11:44] I have gotten to the point where it seems like barring a miracle the Mariners are going

[00:11:49] to have a failing offseason.

[00:11:51] Unfortunately.

[00:11:53] That's just how it is shaping up.

[00:11:55] Are you ready to stamp the Denzel Crocker F on the Mariners offseason or are you going

[00:11:59] to wait?

[00:12:00] I'm going to wait.

[00:12:01] I cannot give them an F yet because there's still plenty of offseason left and there is still

[00:12:05] a possibility even if it's a tenth of a hundredth of a thousandth of a millionth of a percentile

[00:12:11] that they could go out there and sign one of the remaining free agents out of desperation.

[00:12:16] That's always a possibility.

[00:12:18] But right now based on what they've said they've needed and what they've said they can afford

[00:12:23] and the reports we have on what's realistic and what's not it seems like their options to actually

[00:12:30] get better this offseason are gone.

[00:12:34] Yeah.

[00:12:35] So I'm in the same boat as you.

[00:12:36] I'm not stamping a grade on them yet because there's still time.

[00:12:39] It is getting toward the end of December but there's still options out there.

[00:12:43] It's trending toward a toward a real real bad offseason talking again.

[00:12:50] I don't even know.

[00:12:51] Did you watch Fairly Oddparents growing up?

[00:12:53] A little bit.

[00:12:54] Okay.

[00:12:54] Yeah.

[00:12:55] So so then you at least have some idea who Denzel Crocker is where he's going to have

[00:12:59] to hand the Mariners their grade for the offseason and be like F.

[00:13:03] Does Denzel Crocker love to jump and scream F.

[00:13:06] There he is.

[00:13:06] No.

[00:13:07] The Mariners are yeah they're in big trouble because again I don't know what their plan

[00:13:13] for this offseason is or was or is going to be but I can't imagine they envision that

[00:13:19] it was going to get to Christmas time maybe later now and they have absolutely nothing

[00:13:23] in the fold yet to solve first base second base third base D.

[00:13:26] H.

[00:13:26] Or their bullpen.

[00:13:28] At least Abe Toro said he was interested in coming back.

[00:13:31] Oh how do we bury that 13 minutes of the show.

[00:13:33] Tiege you are jumping for joy buddy.

[00:13:36] Now I want you to think about facing the music.

[00:13:39] Oh no.

[00:13:40] I want you to think about facing the music as TJ drops his hat.

[00:13:42] He has his hat to pick up for those not watching on YouTube.

[00:13:44] Oh it's his air pod.

[00:13:45] Never mind.

[00:13:46] He's not wearing a hat.

[00:13:47] I'm not paying attention.

[00:13:48] I want you to think about facing the music the day Abe comes back to town and you get

[00:13:54] to introduce yourself be like I am a huge fan.

[00:13:59] Should I start writing my statement to read on the podcast that happens after he signs?

[00:14:04] I should probably start that.

[00:14:06] I have to do a notes app of an apology to Abe Toro.

[00:14:09] I'm rooting for you.

[00:14:10] I hope for the best.

[00:14:11] To summarize for those of you who aren't aware we started doing these quote cards that

[00:14:17] we'll put on on Instagram with every podcast.

[00:14:19] The first one we did.

[00:14:20] Twitter two.

[00:14:21] Twitter two.

[00:14:22] Right.

[00:14:24] First one we did.

[00:14:26] I sarcastically said on the episode that it looks like the Mariners are just going to

[00:14:31] have to reacquire Abe Toro because the second base market is essentially non-existent for

[00:14:36] what the Mariners can afford.

[00:14:38] And Abe happened to find it this weekend and he liked it.

[00:14:44] I'm like no does he really.

[00:14:46] He has no idea.

[00:14:48] It's a hundred percent sarcasm.

[00:14:50] God.

[00:14:50] I don't know what that was.

[00:14:53] Like do you think.

[00:14:54] So Abe obviously is interested in coming back.

[00:14:57] Well of course he's interested in coming back.

[00:14:59] He's looking for a big league team to give him a major league deal right now.

[00:15:02] Well at this rate Mariners need a left hand and hitting second baseman.

[00:15:07] What do you.

[00:15:08] Would you have liked to have been a fly on the wall watching that.

[00:15:11] Watching Abe Toro's reaction to that.

[00:15:13] It's like man.

[00:15:14] Mariners fans miss me.

[00:15:16] This this Marine layer.

[00:15:18] This Marine layer dude wants me back as I as I tweeted out with the share lyrics.

[00:15:22] I want you back.

[00:15:23] Want want you back.

[00:15:25] TJ TJ wants a back.

[00:15:27] I recommend Abe instead of just looking at the quote cards go listen to the episode.

[00:15:32] Just want to be transparent and all.

[00:15:34] We don't want to don't want to manipulate or gaslight anybody into thinking they are something they aren't.

[00:15:40] Yeah exactly.

[00:15:41] We're trying to we're trying to be more transparent and honest as a society these days.

[00:15:45] And I just feel like you need to be up front.

[00:15:49] Well you guys will get to duke it out once he once he gets back into the fold because they could be trending that way at this point with how many guys they've missed out on.

[00:16:00] So we're going to try and spend the rest of this episode not being total Debbie Dallas.

[00:16:04] On the Mariners offseason.

[00:16:05] Even though it's really easy to get to that point.

[00:16:07] We do have some other options for the Mariners to continue to evaluate throughout this offseason and allow themselves to get better.

[00:16:15] It's still possible.

[00:16:17] Less of a percentage but it's possible.

[00:16:19] But I wanted to pull out one quote from last offseason that I thought ran ring so so so true as we sit here and look at what is remaining of this Mariners offseason.

[00:16:32] And I was you know I was curious I was thinking back to this point of last offseason when we posted the Festivus clip and they traded Kelnick away.

[00:16:39] They traded Suarez away.

[00:16:40] They were dumping salary.

[00:16:42] This was before they had acquired Polanco.

[00:16:43] They acquired Luke Raley.

[00:16:45] They had tried to reinvent the roster.

[00:16:48] They had signed Mitch Garver at this point.

[00:16:51] So they were at a point where they had subtracted all this salary to create room to eventually go sign these players.

[00:16:57] And the offseason eventually swung back more in a positive direction.

[00:17:00] Mariners haven't done that yet.

[00:17:02] But it was on the way down that before you started working on on Brock and Salk they were reacting to the Kelnick trade.

[00:17:09] And I thought Salk had a perfect line when it came to how they were operating that offseason.

[00:17:16] And the same exact thing applies to this offseason because they are operating the same way.

[00:17:20] And Salk said hope is not a strategy.

[00:17:25] Because here's the reality of what happens with this current Mariners roster.

[00:17:31] The hope is that your players all turn it around and that the final five weeks of the season is what happens this next season.

[00:17:40] But that's hope right now.

[00:17:43] The fact that all of your players play well all at the same time collectively, especially in the lineup, is hope.

[00:17:51] Then on top of that, you also hope your entire starting pitching roster is as healthy as they were last season.

[00:17:59] But right off that quote, remember, hope is not a strategy.

[00:18:03] That's essentially just shooting into the dark and hope you hit something.

[00:18:07] There are ways to mitigate that you are not relying on hope throughout this next season.

[00:18:12] But right now, there's a lot of hope in this Mariners offseason plan and not a lot else, unfortunately.

[00:18:22] We haven't even talked about this.

[00:18:24] Maybe we should spend a minute here on it before we get into some of the other options.

[00:18:28] What are all the core players of this team thinking right now?

[00:18:32] I'm not saying these guys have Jeff Passan notifications on.

[00:18:35] Maybe some of them do.

[00:18:37] But they're not, you know, they're locked in.

[00:18:41] They're on social media.

[00:18:42] They see everything that's going on.

[00:18:44] They're not oblivious.

[00:18:45] They see all this stuff.

[00:18:47] So I'm just wondering, what's Logan Gilbert thinking right now?

[00:18:52] Seeing all this.

[00:18:52] What's Cal Raleigh thinking right now?

[00:18:54] Seeing the total lack of acquisitions on the Mariners and while all these guys go sign elsewhere.

[00:19:00] And you've got two guys on your own team, two leaders in your clubhouse,

[00:19:04] who are trying to decide whether or not they want to stick around long term and sign an extension

[00:19:09] of whether or not the team's actually going to get serious about winning games.

[00:19:15] Cal Raleigh's not going to sign an extension here if the team doesn't show that they're serious about winning.

[00:19:21] Logan Gilbert, again, we've already talked about it.

[00:19:23] We've kind of heard that it seems pretty unlikely that's going to happen at this point in terms of an extension.

[00:19:28] What's he thinking right now?

[00:19:31] It's all speculation, but what we're thinking is the obvious, that they look in disappointment.

[00:19:37] Cal already said how he feels.

[00:19:39] He just might not say publicly again.

[00:19:42] But he's already said it.

[00:19:43] I mean, he's already put his cards out there.

[00:19:44] And I doubt the last season has changed his mind.

[00:19:49] We still know how he feels.

[00:19:50] Again, I know he apologized and he hasn't said anything like that publicly again.

[00:19:56] But we know how he feels.

[00:19:57] And he feels the same way as all of us.

[00:19:59] I was just thinking about this and as a way to bring it up for a minute or two.

[00:20:03] Because we've spent so many episodes in a row talking about, obviously, offseason moves.

[00:20:10] Players not in the organization.

[00:20:12] Players to try and bring into your organization.

[00:20:14] I'm just sitting here thinking how many episodes have we gone without saying the name Julio.

[00:20:17] Without saying the name Logan Gilbert at this point.

[00:20:19] Without saying, I don't know, Brian Wu at this point.

[00:20:21] All those guys.

[00:20:22] We even mentioned them.

[00:20:23] And I'm sitting here wondering, yeah, I wonder what those guys are thinking right now.

[00:20:29] I hope they're thinking that they can play at their 100th percentile because that's what it's going to take this season.

[00:20:35] And isn't that nice of the Mariners to ask the guys already on your team?

[00:20:38] It's like, well, we're going to need you to all be 100th percentile players.

[00:20:43] Otherwise, we ain't going to the playoffs.

[00:20:45] I said this on the radio on Friday, and I'll reiterate it again here.

[00:20:49] If the team plays at its absolute best, the current roster, they are talented enough to win the division and potentially be up there with the Yankees.

[00:20:57] But that's hoping, again, that they play as well as they possibly can.

[00:21:03] And the Mariners have yet to show they can get a 100th percentile out of the team collectively.

[00:21:08] Hope is not a strategy.

[00:21:10] It is not, unfortunately.

[00:21:13] And to wrap up this point, I'm frankly pretty disappointed that we continue just with the budget.

[00:21:24] Let me get my words straight here.

[00:21:26] You want a second?

[00:21:27] You want a second?

[00:21:31] That I'm disappointed that the budget is where it is.

[00:21:34] Should be higher.

[00:21:35] Should be willing to invest more into the strategy.

[00:21:37] I'm disappointed 10 years into this regime that a strategy, a continued strategy in the offseason has failed.

[00:21:45] It's seemingly failed.

[00:21:47] Not totality failed.

[00:21:48] But it looks like it's trending that way at this point.

[00:21:52] And I'm just disappointed as Mariner fans.

[00:21:56] We've it's a bit allowed to get to this point again.

[00:21:58] Really disappointed.

[00:22:00] Yeah.

[00:22:00] You use words like disappointed.

[00:22:02] I'll use words like pissed off and furious unless they do something different.

[00:22:06] That's where I'm at.

[00:22:07] Furious.

[00:22:08] Pissed off.

[00:22:10] Am I going to start?

[00:22:11] Am I going to start having to throw things at the wall or out the window?

[00:22:14] Well, we'll see.

[00:22:15] That would be some good content.

[00:22:16] Somebody records local Mariners fan chucking things out the window in anger over offseason.

[00:22:20] Well, we'll see.

[00:22:23] Let me say this again.

[00:22:24] Man, the fact we've gotten to the point earlier in this show.

[00:22:27] What did you say?

[00:22:28] The Mariners very clearly checked in on Christian Walker, but he was out of their price range.

[00:22:33] That's what you said.

[00:22:34] What a time and place we're at, man.

[00:22:36] Yeah.

[00:22:37] Six years ago, as we said on Friday's podcast, we said on Brock and Salk on Friday, you can go listen to both of those things.

[00:22:42] We will say it again here.

[00:22:43] There's a quote from the Seattle Times from Jerry DiPoto after the 2018 season where he said, when the time is right, we will have the flexibility in free agency and the budget.

[00:22:56] I'm paraphrasing a little bit here because I don't have the exact quote in front of me, but we will have spending powers.

[00:23:01] The word.

[00:23:02] Yeah, you're right.

[00:23:02] Spending power and ability to go sign generational players like when the best players of this generation hit free agency.

[00:23:08] Well, TJ, you just said credibly the Mariners checked in on Christian Walker was out of their budget.

[00:23:15] Not only is Christian Walker not even remotely a generational player, but a good player wasn't even in their budget at $20 million a year for three years.

[00:23:28] Unreal.

[00:23:28] Couldn't even sign 39 year old Carlos Santana.

[00:23:32] Let's take a quick pause.

[00:23:33] We're going to talk to you guys about our friends over at Pogaccia's Pub 85.

[00:23:37] It's the holiday season, guys.

[00:23:38] You're probably seeing people from out of town.

[00:23:40] You're getting together with family, with friends.

[00:23:42] If you need a spot to go, head over there.

[00:23:44] You want to watch some sporting events?

[00:23:45] You want to go watch some games?

[00:23:47] College football playoffs now in the swing of things?

[00:23:49] NFL season's winding down in the regular season?

[00:23:51] You want to watch a variety of other sports too?

[00:23:54] Head over there.

[00:23:55] There's more than 20 TVs in that place.

[00:23:56] You can watch a whole bunch of different games.

[00:23:59] Along with that, you can have some awesome food.

[00:24:02] And if you go during happy hour, the drink specials are as good as you can get.

[00:24:06] Those drinks are $3 and $4, you guys.

[00:24:08] $3 and $4 drinks.

[00:24:09] And happy hours last a while too.

[00:24:11] They're 2 to 6 p.m. on Monday through Friday.

[00:24:13] So long happy hours, great drinks.

[00:24:16] Again, Monday through Friday, 2 to 6 p.m.

[00:24:18] That goes along with a great time with your friends, sports, games, all over at Pogaccia's Pub 85 in Kirkland.

[00:24:24] Have you ever wanted to learn a new language?

[00:24:27] Maybe you were inspired by a recent international trip, became obsessed with a foreign film or TV show,

[00:24:34] wanted to communicate better with a loved one, or just felt like developing a new skill.

[00:24:39] With Rosetta Stone, learning a new language is easier than you thought.

[00:24:44] Rosetta Stone has been a trusted expert for 30 years with millions of users and 25 languages offered,

[00:24:51] including Spanish, French, Japanese, Dutch, and more.

[00:24:55] Learning is immersive and designed for long-term retention,

[00:24:58] so you fully learn to speak, listen, and even think in that language.

[00:25:03] Don't put off learning that language.

[00:25:05] There's no better time than right now to get started.

[00:25:09] Listeners can get Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off.

[00:25:13] Visit rosettastone.com slash today.

[00:25:16] That's 50% off unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your life.

[00:25:22] Redeem your 50% off at rosettastone.com slash today.

[00:25:27] Let's get to some of the things they could do, because it's more fun to talk about that.

[00:25:33] Think about hope.

[00:25:34] Think about what they could bring in, how they could still get this roster better,

[00:25:37] because they could, it's possible, there's still time.

[00:25:40] So there's some guys we can still outline, so why don't we do that?

[00:25:44] Can I start with an idea that was reported in this Rosenthal report this morning?

[00:25:49] Sure.

[00:25:50] And see if anything comes of it.

[00:25:52] No specific player here, but it is reported that the Marlins are in the same scenario the A's are in.

[00:25:57] And if you're unfamiliar with that, I think we've mentioned it.

[00:26:00] The A's have to spend a certain amount of money to avoid a grievance by the MLB Players Association

[00:26:06] filed against them, because they've not spent enough money.

[00:26:09] They get a ton of revenue share.

[00:26:11] And the PA looks at that and says, oh, you're just pocketing the rev share money.

[00:26:15] We're going to file a grievance against you.

[00:26:17] So the A's have been forced to go out there and trade and acquire players and add salary to their books for the season.

[00:26:23] Listen, the Marlins are in the same boat.

[00:26:26] And the Marlins don't exactly have as many free agents as they can target.

[00:26:32] So they're going to need to add salary this offseason as well.

[00:26:36] And which team needs to shed salary to make room potentially?

[00:26:39] That's the Seattle Mariners.

[00:26:41] Does this idea make sense at all?

[00:26:44] It does, because this could be a path to getting Mitch Hanegar off the books.

[00:26:48] The Mariners don't even need to get anything back for the guy.

[00:26:51] If you trade Hanegar and add a prospect and send him to Miami for some low-level prospect in return,

[00:26:58] cash considerations, something along those lines, why not?

[00:27:03] It's going to open you up to spend more money, to have your budget freed up,

[00:27:06] to maybe actually land a Santander.

[00:27:08] There, then sure.

[00:27:10] Not to mention that Hanegar doesn't have a spot on the roster as we currently speak,

[00:27:14] and it doesn't make much sense for the guy to be playing the outfield anymore.

[00:27:18] So sure, if you're going to attach Hanegar and some mid- to lower-tier prospect off to Miami

[00:27:23] because they have to add salary, why not?

[00:27:26] The idea makes sense.

[00:27:28] I just don't have much faith that the remaining part of the free agent market that you would spend money on

[00:27:33] would have any interest in Seattle.

[00:27:36] Fine.

[00:27:36] I would say you could at least start, right?

[00:27:39] You start by clearing some salary and then try, at least.

[00:27:43] Because I think Mariners fans would approve.

[00:27:46] This is the part of the offseason we've reached where if they just try,

[00:27:50] people might feel a little bit better.

[00:27:53] Fine.

[00:27:54] They're not going to say they don't spend it in free agency.

[00:27:57] They'll have money remaining at the deadline when they inevitably acquire Kyle Tucker.

[00:28:03] Oh.

[00:28:06] You're going to need some money for it, dog.

[00:28:09] Genius.

[00:28:10] How did I not think of that?

[00:28:11] Well, you should have.

[00:28:12] I played chess, not checkers.

[00:28:13] I think ahead.

[00:28:14] You should get on my level.

[00:28:15] The number I saw thrown out there for the Marlins was $22 million.

[00:28:19] Mitch Hanegar could achieve most of that.

[00:28:21] $15.5 million he's owed in 2025?

[00:28:24] Yeah.

[00:28:26] Unfortunately, I was thinking, I'm like, man, anyone on the Marlins intriguing that they could get back?

[00:28:32] Add more prospects?

[00:28:35] But short answer is no.

[00:28:37] Legitimately, no.

[00:28:38] Jazz Chisholm's gone.

[00:28:40] Jake Berger's gone.

[00:28:41] Even the guys that were fringe intriguing, they're gone.

[00:28:46] The rest of the roster stinks.

[00:28:48] It's really bad.

[00:28:49] I mean, it's really bad.

[00:28:51] If they want to trade the Mariners, Sandy, I would listen.

[00:28:57] Sure.

[00:28:58] I mean, Sandy has to be getting close to getting traded anyway, right?

[00:29:01] The guy, I know he's coming off an injury, but the guy's playing on an atrocious team.

[00:29:06] He's obviously not going to stay there long term.

[00:29:08] The team's not competing.

[00:29:09] Why wouldn't they trade him?

[00:29:11] It's a good question.

[00:29:12] I don't know how exactly the Mariners would make that work because they're certainly not giving up a young starter to get Sandy back,

[00:29:18] given their financial situation and how much Sandy's going to cost.

[00:29:22] But that's the one player I look at the roster.

[00:29:25] I'm like, that's the stud on that roster.

[00:29:29] But no.

[00:29:31] Yeah.

[00:29:32] There's nobody from the Marlins.

[00:29:33] That's why I say just acquire some mid-tier prospect back in return, something, and then pivot.

[00:29:41] Go use that money toward the guys that are still out on the free agent market.

[00:29:46] Here's how the Mariners save their offseason, though.

[00:29:48] They're going to call the Tampa Bay Rays like they do every single season, and they're going to go out there and acquire either Yandy Diaz or Brandon Lau.

[00:29:57] That's what's left.

[00:29:58] That's the last best option I have for the Mariners offseason.

[00:30:02] Well, I can't wait until they acquire Yandy Diaz, Teej.

[00:30:06] That'll have solved their first base issues.

[00:30:08] Yandy Diaz is a really good player.

[00:30:09] 120 WRC plus hitter.

[00:30:11] Has a couple years of club control.

[00:30:13] It's kind of the idea of Ty France, but everything Ty France wasn't, where he doesn't have a ton of power,

[00:30:19] but he's really, really good with his bat to ball and still puts up real numbers.

[00:30:23] I can't wait for it.

[00:30:25] In fact, I can't wait to get down to spring training.

[00:30:27] In fact, you see that meme sometimes go around on Twitter, the clip of Patrick Starr when he walks right into the Krusty Krab.

[00:30:33] Good morning, Krusty Krab.

[00:30:35] He just gets lit on fire.

[00:30:37] That's going to be Yandy Diaz the minute he walks into the Mariners clubhouse at spring training,

[00:30:41] and Randy Rosarena starts throwing haymakers at him.

[00:30:44] Good morning, Krusty Krab.

[00:30:46] And Randy just starts throwing haymakers.

[00:30:48] It's like, I never want to see you again.

[00:30:52] For those who have forgotten, can you reiterate what you're talking about?

[00:30:58] So, this part is actually true, definitive.

[00:31:01] Late in 2022, Randy Rosarena and Yandy Diaz had to be separated in an altercation, they called it, in the parking lot after a game.

[00:31:11] Who knows what the two of them got into a whole debacle about?

[00:31:15] The report was personal stuff that they didn't want to get into.

[00:31:19] They, again, had to be separated.

[00:31:21] So, that happened.

[00:31:22] And they claim they put it past them.

[00:31:25] Again, I'm sure you're going to say that to the papers and to the media, because what are you going to tell the media?

[00:31:29] Yeah, we're not friends, but we're just going to deal with it.

[00:31:31] I'm sure that would go really well.

[00:31:34] So, there's already some belief that those two may not be the best of friends.

[00:31:38] And then there was all that stuff on Twitter back last summer that kind of surfaced around for a while,

[00:31:43] that their wives aren't friendly and they don't get along.

[00:31:46] I don't know.

[00:31:46] Now, like, listen, Yandy Diaz is on paper a perfect fit at first base for the Mariners.

[00:31:51] We've talked about him for a couple years now.

[00:31:54] I'd be very, very interested to see what that clubhouse looks like if he is reacquired and him and Randy have to deal with each other all the time again.

[00:32:03] Given how the Mariners' offseason has gone, though, I don't care if they don't like each other at all.

[00:32:07] Don't talk to each other.

[00:32:10] You don't have to talk to all your teammates.

[00:32:12] Mariners have had plenty of players in their history who have not been friends.

[00:32:18] Gene Segura and Dee Gordon weren't friends?

[00:32:21] No.

[00:32:22] Well, they shared a middle infield.

[00:32:23] They were friends.

[00:32:25] And tell me all the Mariners in the 2000s and some of the guys in the early 2010s weren't friends?

[00:32:29] Yeah.

[00:32:30] For those who also need context again, in case you've forgotten,

[00:32:33] Dee Gordon and Gene Segura got into a real fistfight at the end of 2018 in the clubhouse.

[00:32:38] So, yeah, I don't think those guys are friends.

[00:32:40] Oh, yeah.

[00:32:41] You know, remember when the 2021 and 2022 team was just so known for its clubhouse culture and everybody was so close?

[00:32:49] It was a tight-knit group.

[00:32:50] Guys were all friends.

[00:32:51] Now we're like, well, can the Mariners just acquire some good players that are going to produce?

[00:32:56] If Yandy and Randy death stare each other in the clubhouse every day, that's fine.

[00:33:01] But as long as they go out and play well and win, that's fine.

[00:33:04] I think people would prefer run scoring over team chemistry at this point because, as you said, team chemistry has been great and they've won a grand total of one playoff series.

[00:33:15] It's like the account that was tweeting online today about the Mariners being 11th in wins and their prospects being fine.

[00:33:21] Like, great!

[00:33:22] That's what we call a participation trophy.

[00:33:25] I like real trophies.

[00:33:27] Real trophies sound good.

[00:33:29] But, yeah, Yandy Diaz is perfect for the Mariners.

[00:33:31] He's literally everything they need and he is perfectly affordable.

[00:33:35] So, this is my ask.

[00:33:36] Please go trade for him if he's available.

[00:33:39] We know the, at least it was speculated, the Mariners were still talking with the Rays at the trade deadline this past trade deadline after they acquired Randy to potentially get more players.

[00:33:50] Nothing else happened.

[00:33:51] But, we look at the Rays infield and they have two guys sitting there who seem, like, contract-wise, perfectly available.

[00:34:01] And Yandy Diaz, who has one year remaining of control.

[00:34:05] He has a club option in 2026.

[00:34:07] And Brandon Lau has $10.5 million due this year and then a club option in 2026 as well.

[00:34:15] Mm-hmm.

[00:34:16] Sounds like perfect trade candidates.

[00:34:19] And Rays aren't extending either of those guys.

[00:34:21] They don't extend players.

[00:34:23] Mm-hmm.

[00:34:24] So, give them a call.

[00:34:25] And I'd be shocked.

[00:34:26] I'd actually be shocked if Jerry hasn't called them by now.

[00:34:29] I would be fooled.

[00:34:30] I'm sure he has.

[00:34:31] I'm sure he has.

[00:34:33] What do we think the Rays would want for those guys?

[00:34:37] I mean, the Rays should be a team that, if they're willing to trade, should take prospects, right?

[00:34:41] The Mariners only traded prospects for Randy.

[00:34:43] Now, they traded a decent haul of them.

[00:34:47] But if that's what you traded for Randy, it should be less for a first baseman like Yandy Diaz, who doesn't play much defense, less of a position of value.

[00:34:54] Isn't the player that Randy quite is?

[00:34:57] If you traded Aiden Smith, Brody Hopkins, and...

[00:35:01] Oh, no.

[00:35:02] I'm going to forget who the player to be named later was.

[00:35:04] Ty Cummings.

[00:35:05] Ty Cummings, yeah.

[00:35:06] If you traded those three for Randy, it should be less for Yandy Diaz.

[00:35:10] We just saw what a first base trade package looks like for Naylor.

[00:35:13] Naylor's a whole lot younger.

[00:35:15] One year, though, a Naylor versus two of Yandy is the thing to balance.

[00:35:19] Well, it's not too guaranteed.

[00:35:22] What's that?

[00:35:23] It's not two guaranteed years.

[00:35:25] But...

[00:35:25] Could be guaranteed years.

[00:35:27] If the Mariners choose, they would pick up the option.

[00:35:29] So, yeah.

[00:35:30] It costed the...

[00:35:32] It costed the...

[00:35:33] Yandy's also in his 30s.

[00:35:35] Yeah, so...

[00:35:35] And Josh Naylor's 27.

[00:35:38] And that costed the Diamondbacks one young, fringe big league starter.

[00:35:43] So, yeah.

[00:35:43] I don't think the package should be crazy.

[00:35:45] You would think that's something the Mariners could get done.

[00:35:47] And for Brandon Lau, I think it would be something similar.

[00:35:50] Because Brandon Lau's a good player.

[00:35:52] Two-win player.

[00:35:54] 123 WRC plus last year.

[00:35:55] He's had 20-plus homers each of the last two years.

[00:35:58] He can play.

[00:35:59] We know he's dealt with injuries in his career and can often be injury-prone.

[00:36:03] But it doesn't mean the Mariners shouldn't go trade for the guy.

[00:36:06] Also, he hits lefties.

[00:36:07] Totally fine.

[00:36:08] He's not a big, you know, one-sided type platoon guy.

[00:36:12] He can hit both sides.

[00:36:13] He can hit both lefties and righties.

[00:36:15] So, sure.

[00:36:17] At least one of those guys.

[00:36:18] Sign me right up.

[00:36:19] Because those are productive players.

[00:36:22] I have a hard time thinking it would cost anything more than two prospects total for one of these players.

[00:36:28] I agree.

[00:36:28] It might cost less.

[00:36:29] And I don't think either of those prospects would be crazy high-end either.

[00:36:33] Mm-mm.

[00:36:34] And both would make your team instantly better.

[00:36:36] Both these guys hit.

[00:36:37] They're not young.

[00:36:38] They're not the perfect long-term controllable assets.

[00:36:41] These aren't guys that Jerry DePoto says, oh, we need to get more athletic.

[00:36:44] We need to get younger.

[00:36:46] We like to have controllable, sustainable players in the future.

[00:36:53] But they'll make your team better next year.

[00:36:55] And I think that's what should really matter right now.

[00:36:57] So, I really think if there is any semblance of options.

[00:37:00] If we're talking about overpaying, I will overpay prospect packages for either of these two.

[00:37:05] It is getting to the desperation point where you make the Rays pick up the phone.

[00:37:12] And what does overpaying even mean in a prospect package for these guys?

[00:37:17] I don't think you'd have to overpay with any crazy prospects.

[00:37:20] And here's the other thing.

[00:37:22] No one else wants prospects this offseason.

[00:37:25] That's a big reason why the Mariners are where they are.

[00:37:26] No one really is interested in acquiring any prospects this offseason.

[00:37:30] So, what if you have to give up more?

[00:37:32] It's not like you have to worry about giving them up to anyone else.

[00:37:35] Would you trade Harry Ford for Yanni Diaz?

[00:37:37] Yes.

[00:37:39] So, there you go.

[00:37:40] If that's what it takes, sure.

[00:37:45] That's where we're at, people.

[00:37:47] So, those are two of my tier one options.

[00:37:50] I have one more tier one option.

[00:37:52] The Orioles still haven't blocked themselves off from a Mariners trade.

[00:37:56] We've talked about it.

[00:37:57] Like, the Cubs kind of have blocked themselves off from a Castillo trade.

[00:38:00] The Red Sox, with their acquisitions this weekend, have blocked off essentially a Castillo trade.

[00:38:05] The Mets signed Minaya today.

[00:38:07] They've done the same thing.

[00:38:09] Orioles haven't.

[00:38:11] There's still at least a tiny bit of a window for the Orioles and the Mariners to trade.

[00:38:17] And this is not going to be a Kobe Mayo acquisition.

[00:38:19] This is just for a first baseman in Ryan Mountcastle.

[00:38:24] Mountcastle has been rumored that he's been on the block this offseason.

[00:38:27] Ryan Mountcastle is not a fantastic baseball player.

[00:38:30] He's a slightly above average to average first baseman.

[00:38:33] One and a half F4 last year.

[00:38:35] A 108 WRC+.

[00:38:38] He's going to make about $8 million next year.

[00:38:40] He has two more years of control.

[00:38:43] But he would be, for what the Mariners need right now, they need someone to hit right-handed

[00:38:48] at first base.

[00:38:49] And that could be Ryan Mountcastle for not really that much.

[00:38:53] He's not going to cost that much to go trade for, I know, two years of control.

[00:38:56] But it's not like he's got tools exploding everywhere.

[00:38:59] It's a fine player.

[00:39:03] So, let me preface this by saying I still really hope the Mariners at some point find a way

[00:39:07] to acquire Kobe Mayo because he makes a ton of sense.

[00:39:10] And I think that guy has a chance to be really good.

[00:39:12] However, let's say the Orioles want Mayo to be an everyday player in 2025, which would

[00:39:18] make sense given who he is as a prospect, what his upside is.

[00:39:21] Because if they need somebody to play first base, while Mayo's been mostly a third baseman,

[00:39:26] there is a belief he will eventually be playing first base or could slide over to first base.

[00:39:31] Let's say that's the case.

[00:39:33] Somebody on that Orioles roster, offensively, is going to be the odd man out.

[00:39:38] Doesn't seem like Jordan Westberg's going to be the odd man out because we've talked about

[00:39:41] that idea of a trade and it doesn't seem like, one, fans love the ideas.

[00:39:46] The responses we've gotten have been telling.

[00:39:48] And two, I don't think the Orioles themselves have much interest to trade the guy.

[00:39:51] So if he's going to stay, and obviously you have Gunnar at short, you would assume Holiday

[00:39:56] is going to be playing second the majority of the year.

[00:39:59] At first base, it could be Kobe Mayo.

[00:40:03] It could be Ryan Mountcastle.

[00:40:05] So if it's one of those two guys, if somebody's going to play every day, somebody's got to go,

[00:40:12] right?

[00:40:12] Especially if Ryan O'Hearn's still there too.

[00:40:15] Somebody is going to be the odd man out.

[00:40:17] So if they want to play Mayo on a regular basis in 2025, that would leave Mountcastle

[00:40:23] on the chopping block.

[00:40:24] And I'm not saying he is the end-all be-all solution for the Mariners.

[00:40:29] Does he make them better at first base though?

[00:40:31] Yes.

[00:40:34] And is he going to...

[00:40:35] What?

[00:40:36] Well, he's also...

[00:40:37] I was just...

[00:40:38] Quickly, I know.

[00:40:38] I stopped there for a second.

[00:40:39] I was going to add, he is a good defender.

[00:40:41] He had eight defensive runs saved at first base this past year.

[00:40:43] So that is a plus to his game.

[00:40:45] Like you said, he is an above average hitter.

[00:40:48] Slightly above average.

[00:40:49] But I think the Mariners would take a 110 WRC plus hitting first baseman at this point,

[00:40:53] given what Ty France has done the last two years.

[00:40:56] He also doesn't strike out a ton, which is nice.

[00:40:58] It's not never, but 22%, it's pretty manageable.

[00:41:01] So there's things about Mountcastle's game to like.

[00:41:05] And he will not cost you one of your five starters.

[00:41:08] There's no way.

[00:41:09] He will not.

[00:41:10] And you don't really have a Ryan Mountcastle type on your roster to play first right now.

[00:41:16] So it's an easy fit at first base.

[00:41:19] If they still want to do the Raley slash right-handed hitter platoon,

[00:41:25] Mountcastle fits into that.

[00:41:26] Especially given his value and his track record at the plate,

[00:41:29] putting him in a platoon situation is not the worst idea in the world.

[00:41:33] No.

[00:41:35] But...

[00:41:35] So that...

[00:41:36] I was going to say,

[00:41:38] if the Mariners miss out on all of those guys,

[00:41:43] there is another tier.

[00:41:46] Who would be in tier two?

[00:41:47] We outlined a couple guys.

[00:41:49] We can start with the obvious one.

[00:41:51] Two more tiers, by the way.

[00:41:53] Oh, there's two more tiers.

[00:41:54] Yeah.

[00:41:55] The first one is the obvious.

[00:41:57] And if you had to get us to predict what the most likely outcome for the Mariners is at first base at this point,

[00:42:03] it'd be this guy.

[00:42:04] It's bringing back Justin Turner.

[00:42:07] Is he going to absolutely change the course of this offense by himself?

[00:42:15] No.

[00:42:15] As we saw last year, he can certainly help.

[00:42:18] We know he can hit lefties.

[00:42:19] He doesn't strike out.

[00:42:20] Great approach.

[00:42:21] There are things he can do to help this team.

[00:42:24] Is it the perfect solution?

[00:42:25] No.

[00:42:25] But he can help this team.

[00:42:27] And again, from the things we've kind of heard,

[00:42:29] he did a lot more for the turnaround of that offense that I think gets publicly recognized.

[00:42:35] I know the hiring of Dan Wilson, bringing in Edgar Martinez, seeing the offense turn around those final few weeks was talked about a lot.

[00:42:44] I think Justin Turner, from things we picked up, serves a lot more credit than people gave him for that offense turning around.

[00:42:51] So if you're going to get him back in the fold, it's not the worst idea.

[00:42:56] It's having that adult in the room, right?

[00:42:58] It's having the veteran presence, the go-to guy who's been there, done that for the young players to go to when talking about offense.

[00:43:07] Not to mention, he can still hit a little bit on his own.

[00:43:10] If they want an adult in the room, he's all that's left.

[00:43:13] Well, yeah, it's not going to be Santana.

[00:43:15] No.

[00:43:16] No.

[00:43:17] So it would be Justin Turner.

[00:43:18] We haven't heard much in terms of the rumor mill.

[00:43:21] At least at the end of the offseason, Turner said he would be open to come back.

[00:43:25] I think the Mariners also said they'd be open to having Justin Turner back.

[00:43:28] We haven't really heard that they've discussed anything.

[00:43:32] There's been nothing like the Carlos Santana rumors.

[00:43:35] There's been nothing like the Christian Walker rumors.

[00:43:37] Not really any of that.

[00:43:39] It could spark back up, but it also could be maybe ideas have changed and thoughts have changed on what either of the two sides want to do this offseason.

[00:43:50] But for all the reasons you just outlined, it does, in the technical sense, make sense.

[00:43:55] He's only going to have to play half the time.

[00:43:57] They're going to want Luke Raley playing the other half of the time at first base, especially given that Justin Turner's 40.

[00:44:02] He's going to be off his feet.

[00:44:04] He's not going to need to be relied upon as an everyday hitter.

[00:44:08] He's not an everyday hitter at this point.

[00:44:10] But they would sign him and ask him to be 5% above league average, not be a disaster defensively at first base,

[00:44:16] and hopefully stay healthy for an entire season.

[00:44:18] All while helping everybody else with their offensive approach hit better collectively as a group.

[00:44:24] Which, as we say, in the slim hope probability of everyone playing at their 100th percentile,

[00:44:31] and the Mariners actually play like a top-level team in the American League with the current players they have on their roster,

[00:44:37] then that would be what we would call a success for having Justin Turner in the lineup.

[00:44:42] I have another Tier 2 option.

[00:44:44] This one is a little less exciting.

[00:44:46] Before you get to that, before we get to Josh Bell, who will be the next guy,

[00:44:51] I just have one quick thought and take on why maybe things haven't progressed more with Turner and the Mariners.

[00:44:57] I'm going to put a take out there that Justin Turner's probably got one year left in Major League Baseball

[00:45:01] before he calls it a career, and it's been a really good career for the guy.

[00:45:05] Something tells me he wants to give it one final go at a true, true World Series run,

[00:45:11] and would love to find some way, shape, or form to get a roster spot back with the LA Dodgers.

[00:45:17] If I had to guess, I bet you Justin Turner wants to be a bench player for the LA Dodgers.

[00:45:23] Will that happen?

[00:45:24] We'll see.

[00:45:26] Why nothing's gone on with Turner?

[00:45:29] There could be a variety of reasons, but there is a real part of me that has a belief that that could be what he's aiming for.

[00:45:36] Do I know that for sure?

[00:45:37] No, but it's just the take I have.

[00:45:40] In theory, then, if he was holding out hope for a Dodgers roster spot, the Mariners would be like,

[00:45:46] we can be your backup option if you want.

[00:45:48] If that's what he'd be interested in.

[00:45:50] Right.

[00:45:51] Yeah.

[00:45:51] Or he could change his mind and decide to retire.

[00:45:54] If he doesn't get it.

[00:45:56] A lot of time, these guys have a lot of time to think in the offseason, so things can change.

[00:46:01] And I know, if you check his Instagram at all,

[00:46:04] Justin Turner does have a lot of passions and a lot of fun stuff he could do.

[00:46:10] And he's made a lot of money in his career.

[00:46:12] So it's whether or not, once you get to this point, you're more so not as desperate for an opportunity.

[00:46:19] You've gotten what you've wanted.

[00:46:21] So we'll see about what happens with Justin Turner, if he's willing to come back to the Pacific Northwest for another season.

[00:46:27] Let's get to Josh Bell then.

[00:46:28] Not quite as an exciting player.

[00:46:30] The best way I would describe Josh Bell is a pretty average Major League Baseball player.

[00:46:37] He is slightly above replacement level each of the last two years.

[00:46:42] He's about an average hitter.

[00:46:45] He's bad on defense at first base.

[00:46:47] He switch hits.

[00:46:48] And man, he was expensive the last two seasons.

[00:46:51] Not a great contract for him.

[00:46:53] He made $16.5 million each of the last two seasons to put up less than one combined win.

[00:47:01] You wanted him pretty badly after 22, I remember.

[00:47:06] Well, good thing they didn't do that.

[00:47:07] Good thing they didn't listen to me.

[00:47:09] Well, they should still listen to us on a lot of things, but maybe that one they get a pass.

[00:47:14] Anyway, Josh Bell had a 644 OPS in the first half of the year.

[00:47:20] In the second half of the year, he exploded because the guy had an 885 OPS.

[00:47:25] How perfectly could you see the Mariners signing Josh Bell and hyping the hell out of his second half of the year and saying,

[00:47:34] we expect him to be more like this.

[00:47:36] He is going to help really solidify the middle of our order, etc., etc.

[00:47:40] If he's looking for anywhere near what he got last time, then he's not coming to Seattle.

[00:47:44] He'd need to sign for half that amount.

[00:47:46] Maximum.

[00:47:47] No, but the guy's going to sign for a max of what?

[00:47:52] $6 million?

[00:47:53] $8 million.

[00:47:55] If Carlos Santana got $12 million, Josh Bell's at least younger.

[00:47:59] He was a negative war player last year.

[00:48:01] Again, I know he had a good second half, but I don't know.

[00:48:04] $8 million?

[00:48:06] They say $8 million is worth one war.

[00:48:09] He had a negative war last year.

[00:48:11] He could put up one war.

[00:48:12] He was also playing on the Marlins last year, so take it with a grain of salt.

[00:48:16] Remember, just not the sterling example of an organization that brings the best out of its players.

[00:48:23] Yeah.

[00:48:23] I will say, when you do get waived mid-season, it kind of puts a sour taste in the mouths of people who are thinking about signing him.

[00:48:33] Well, he got cut, so is that really the best idea?

[00:48:38] No.

[00:48:39] Absolutely not.

[00:48:40] And $8 million seems like a lot.

[00:48:41] I would chop that in half.

[00:48:42] I bet you he gets four.

[00:48:44] I guess we'll find out.

[00:48:46] Yeah.

[00:48:47] Just mark my words.

[00:48:49] The Mariners signed Josh Bell.

[00:48:50] Well, you're going to hear a lot of yapping about his second half of the year and nothing about how he got cut.

[00:48:55] So, yeah.

[00:48:57] Well, Teej.

[00:48:59] We get to Tier 3.

[00:49:00] There is a Tier 3.

[00:49:02] Now, this first player I'm going to highlight on Tier 3, he's not on here because he's a bad baseball player.

[00:49:09] In fact, he's a fine-to-good hitter at the big league level.

[00:49:13] But I'm putting Lamont Wade in my Tier 3, and I would like to tell you why.

[00:49:19] Lamont Wade and Luke Raley are very similar baseball players in terms of the role they occupy and what they would do on the Mariners roster.

[00:49:29] They're both platoon first basemen slash outfielders who do polar opposite things at the plate.

[00:49:36] But still, in terms of what the Mariners would need each of them to do, operate like a left-handed platoon bat, I don't know how this fits.

[00:49:48] And especially the fact the Mariners would have to go out and trade for Lamont Wade off the Giants roster.

[00:49:54] That's why he's down here at Tier 3.

[00:49:56] If the Mariners didn't have Luke Raley or weren't planning on playing Luke Raley at first base because, well, they'd just put him in the outfield like he probably should be with his athleticism and speed,

[00:50:06] then I would say Lamont Wade makes a lot of sense.

[00:50:09] But as long as they plan on having Luke Raley play first base, Lamont Wade makes no sense.

[00:50:14] But he's available, technically.

[00:50:16] So, that means he has to be an option.

[00:50:19] He has to be an option, but Lamont Wade and Luke Raley cannot coexist on the same roster.

[00:50:26] Sorry.

[00:50:27] Lamont Wade and Luke Raley cannot coexist on the same infield at the same position.

[00:50:31] This doesn't work.

[00:50:32] Those two guys are both big-time platoon-hitting left-handed bats who cannot, for the life of them, hit left-handed pitching.

[00:50:41] It doesn't work.

[00:50:42] I like Lamont Wade's game.

[00:50:44] Walks a ton.

[00:50:45] Good approach.

[00:50:46] Good, again, bat-to-ball guy.

[00:50:49] He's a good player.

[00:50:50] But only if Luke Raley's playing the outfield.

[00:50:53] They cannot coexist both trying to play first base because lefties would carve them apart.

[00:51:00] The other thing, too, is you and I complain about how many platoons are on this roster.

[00:51:04] If you traded for him and tried to work both these guys, whether you put Lamont Wade at DH,

[00:51:08] whether you throw him in the outfield occasionally to try and essentially add another platoon into the lineup,

[00:51:16] I can't say I would be happy with it because you said the Mariners have too many platoons.

[00:51:22] They need more everyday players.

[00:51:24] Lamont Wade, unfortunately, because of his platoon status, is not an everyday baseball player.

[00:51:30] Yep.

[00:51:31] That's right.

[00:51:32] Correct.

[00:51:33] Would you like to inform the people of the final guy on our list?

[00:51:38] People got a kick out of this one when I mentioned it.

[00:51:41] But Ty France is available.

[00:51:44] No.

[00:51:47] Well, yeah.

[00:51:47] I mean, he stunk last year.

[00:51:49] Mariners DFA'd him.

[00:51:50] Even if he was a bit of a scapegoat for the larger underlying issues with their philosophy and with their collective hitting ability as a roster.

[00:52:01] But Ty France is sitting there after electing free agency from the Reds.

[00:52:05] He had an 85 OPS plus in Cincinnati before deciding that he wanted to be a free agent and test the market.

[00:52:12] But the Mariners need a right-handed hitting first baseman.

[00:52:15] And Ty France is available.

[00:52:18] Now, despite the fact whether or not the Mariners would want Ty France back or not, do you think Ty France wants to come back to Seattle?

[00:52:26] He's in a situation right now where he needs to sign a one-year deal somewhere and go have like a 115 WRC plus and earn himself a free agent contract.

[00:52:37] You think he's going to come to Seattle to do that?

[00:52:39] No.

[00:52:41] And that's not even talking about the feelings he has about the organizations that cut him midseason.

[00:52:48] To every word you just said, no.

[00:52:52] That's my answer on Ty France.

[00:52:54] He will not be back here.

[00:52:55] He is not going to choose to sign here.

[00:52:57] Jerry DiPoto and Justin Hollander will not essentially admit defeat by bringing him back.

[00:53:03] Not going to happen.

[00:53:05] Ty France is not going to be a Mariner.

[00:53:08] He would not have to undergo the pressure of being an everyday first baseman.

[00:53:12] He'd only hit lefties.

[00:53:15] Yeah, I guess.

[00:53:17] He will not be a Mariner.

[00:53:18] I'm pretty confident in saying that.

[00:53:20] I'm pretty confident in that too.

[00:53:21] But in terms of options that are available, the fact we have to talk about this just highlights the situation the Mariners are currently in.

[00:53:33] That they have put themselves in.

[00:53:34] Not that the league has put themselves in.

[00:53:36] The Mariners have put themselves in this situation.

[00:53:39] Where Ty France is talked about as someone who could come back and play first base.

[00:53:44] Well, if you don't like talking about Ty France and resorting to last resort options, you're not going to like the last guy on my list here.

[00:53:56] Me!

[00:53:57] They're going to activate me to play first base and hit lefties.

[00:54:01] Well, at least then would you reinvest that money into the podcast?

[00:54:07] Yes.

[00:54:08] Oh, great.

[00:54:09] So I don't have to find a job.

[00:54:10] Perfect.

[00:54:10] So, I mean, I might make league minimum, but that's $750,000 or whatever it is.

[00:54:15] That's a lot.

[00:54:17] $750,000 more dollars than we have.

[00:54:20] I was going to say, split it up 50-50.

[00:54:23] If I say yes on account of do it for the pod, it's a $325,000 annual salary for each of us.

[00:54:31] That sounds great.

[00:54:31] You would instantly become one percenters.

[00:54:33] Actually, no, I just did that math wrong.

[00:54:36] $750,000?

[00:54:37] That's not, no.

[00:54:38] $325,000 and $325,000 would be $650,000.

[00:54:41] Wow, I'm trying to do math.

[00:54:43] $375,000 each?

[00:54:44] Yeah.

[00:54:45] Yeah.

[00:54:45] And minus taxes, but still.

[00:54:48] Anyway, the Seattle Mariners will be activating me.

[00:54:52] Lyle Goldstein to play first base.

[00:54:53] They saw my high school highlight tape and they couldn't stay away.

[00:54:56] And they know.

[00:54:57] Wait, so if we're in the business now of reposting videos as we reposted the Festivus video today

[00:55:02] on all of our social channels, should we repost that home run you hit at that field during the summer?

[00:55:09] We might have to.

[00:55:10] Put it out as a highlight tape.

[00:55:11] Hmm.

[00:55:12] Well, or I could just work.

[00:55:13] Here the M's need a first baseman.

[00:55:15] Or if the M's just need to see my highlight tape in high school.

[00:55:18] I was picking balls out of the dirt left and right.

[00:55:20] And I got a ring.

[00:55:21] Yeah, what about your bat?

[00:55:24] Yeah, I could hit a little bit.

[00:55:26] I didn't.

[00:55:26] Are there highlights of it?

[00:55:28] What's that?

[00:55:29] Are there highlights of it?

[00:55:31] Somewhere.

[00:55:32] Oh.

[00:55:32] I didn't play very much because our team was really good.

[00:55:34] And I may or may not have essentially been a glorified cheerleader on our high school state title team.

[00:55:39] But that doesn't mean anything.

[00:55:41] The Mariners are signing me to play first base.

[00:55:43] It's a done deal.

[00:55:45] Done deal.

[00:55:46] They're signing me to play first base.

[00:55:48] And you know what?

[00:55:49] I actually won't go up to their face and tell them spending money on me is not a smart strategy.

[00:55:54] I will actually take it.

[00:56:02] Well, I'm all in on this idea.

[00:56:05] Great.

[00:56:06] At least we'd have some inside info in the clubhouse now.

[00:56:09] You're not going to believe what I just heard next on the Marine Layer pod.

[00:56:16] They're signing me to play first base.

[00:56:18] They're out of options.

[00:56:19] They don't have anymore.

[00:56:20] That's fine with me at this point.

[00:56:21] Can't get any worse.

[00:56:23] Good.

[00:56:24] Good.

[00:56:25] Good.

[00:56:26] Also, we'll repost this.

[00:56:28] If they still don't have a first baseman, let's say by the new year, how about we repost that video?

[00:56:32] We could.

[00:56:33] We could.

[00:56:33] We can.

[00:56:34] We can.

[00:56:34] We can debate.

[00:56:36] Yeah.

[00:56:36] Okay.

[00:56:37] Yeah.

[00:56:37] Well, that is the list of guys that the Mariners could be interested in over the next few weeks.

[00:56:44] There could still be some other second baseman or third baseman out there.

[00:56:47] I know for this segment, we mostly highlighted first baseman, but they're still going to have to fill second and third base too.

[00:56:55] What they do with those positions, we don't know yet.

[00:56:58] So do we have it?

[00:57:00] I mean, I don't know.

[00:57:00] Do we have any predictions?

[00:57:02] Who's even available at third base at this point?

[00:57:04] We talked about it.

[00:57:04] We talked about it at second base.

[00:57:05] There's Hassan Kim.

[00:57:05] There's Glaber Torres.

[00:57:06] There's Hysang Kim, who I do not want.

[00:57:09] There's a few others, but I don't even know who's available at third base besides Bregman.

[00:57:14] Alex Bregman, who is not signing in Seattle.

[00:57:17] Correct.

[00:57:18] And the next best player is probably Josh Rojas.

[00:57:23] All right.

[00:57:23] I just pulled up the list.

[00:57:24] Here are the other third baseman available in free agency, at least according to MLB.com when they put out their free agents.

[00:57:31] After Alex Bregman and Josh Rojas, who is second, like we mentioned on our last podcast.

[00:57:37] John Birdie, J.D. Davis, Yohan Moncada, Gio Urshela signed, so he's off the board.

[00:57:43] They list Nick Madrigal as a third baseman.

[00:57:48] Brian Anderson, who was in spring training with the Mariners last year and did not make the roster.

[00:57:53] Jace Peterson, Eric Wagaman.

[00:57:56] I don't even know who that is.

[00:57:57] I'm going to be honest with you.

[00:57:58] He signed a one-year deal with Miami a few days ago.

[00:58:00] And last on the list, Luis Arias.

[00:58:05] Ape's not on the list.

[00:58:07] Well, they're going to have to sign him.

[00:58:09] So just to put the third base free agent market into context, number one's a $300 million player.

[00:58:18] Number two got non-tendered.

[00:58:21] Yes.

[00:58:23] Yes.

[00:58:25] You're talking about, well, Rojas.

[00:58:28] Like what a drop-off, dude.

[00:58:30] How is there that big a drop-off?

[00:58:34] Well, looks like if the Mariners want the second best option at third base, they should just re-sign Josh Rojas.

[00:58:40] I agree.

[00:58:42] Yes, they should.

[00:58:43] Nope.

[00:58:44] I'm psyched.

[00:58:45] I'm kidding.

[00:58:45] They should not do that.

[00:58:46] It's just a little bit harder for us to do these lists for second baseman and third baseman because I think people would just get a lot more depressed.

[00:58:53] Right.

[00:58:54] Right.

[00:58:55] I mean, that's probably right.

[00:58:56] Well, we would subsequently also get depressed.

[00:59:00] They're going to have to find a way to trade for a couple guys.

[00:59:02] You could potentially sign someone at second base.

[00:59:04] Third base, you're going to have to trade for somebody.

[00:59:05] You have to.

[00:59:07] All right.

[00:59:08] That is our list of first baseman, people.

[00:59:10] Let's do it again, Teej.

[00:59:11] By the next time we record Friday's episode, will the Mariners have made an acquisition?

[00:59:19] I'm just going to try and jinx it because I said yes last time and I was clearly wrong.

[00:59:24] So I'm going to say no.

[00:59:25] I'm also going to say no.

[00:59:27] Isn't that fun?

[00:59:28] Well, hopefully we're wrong.

[00:59:30] And on Friday or before then, we have something to talk about.

[00:59:33] All right.

[00:59:33] With that, that just about wraps up this edition of the Marine Layer Podcast.

[00:59:37] You guys know the drill.

[00:59:38] If you want to listen to the full form pod, you can do so wherever you get your audio podcasts.

[00:59:42] Make sure you're downloading.

[00:59:43] Make sure you're rating and reviewing.

[00:59:44] Leave that five star review.

[00:59:45] It really, really does help us out, guys, if you do.

[00:59:48] If you're watching on YouTube, hit that subscribe button.

[00:59:50] You see it.

[00:59:51] It's right in front of you and it supports the channel big time.

[00:59:54] So hit that subscribe button.

[00:59:55] Leave a like.

[00:59:56] Drop a comment.

[00:59:57] Turn the notification bells on.

[00:59:59] And if you're on social media, most of you are.

[01:00:02] We're posting social content every day.

[01:00:03] So go follow.

[01:00:04] It's on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube Shorts, Blue Sky, at Marine Layer Pod.

[01:00:09] That's TJ.

[01:00:10] I'm Lyle.

[01:00:11] As always, we thank you guys for tuning in.

[01:00:13] We'll talk to you soon.