Lyle and TJ react to the end of the World Series, and if the Blue Jays losing made it feel any better (2:30). They then get into their starting pitcher grades for the 2025 season:
Bryan Woo (16:10)
Logan Gilbert (23:25)
George Kirby (30:03)
Bryce Miller (34:37)
Luis Castillo (40:06)
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00:00 --> 00:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to episode number 320 of the Marine Layer podcast.
00:03 --> 00:05 [SPEAKER_01]: It's our starting pitcher grades episode.
00:05 --> 00:10 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll go through the Mariners rotation and hand out some 20-25 season grades.
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00:39 --> 00:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get it rolling.
00:54 --> 01:16 [SPEAKER_01]: And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Lair podcast part of the just baseball podcast network recording here on Sunday evening November second The major league baseball season is officially over Lyle have to admit I broke my boycott of the world series as said I wasn't gonna watch a single pitch was gonna watch a single inning I wasn't gonna have a care in the world
01:17 --> 01:19 [SPEAKER_01]: But on Saturday, my calendar was clear.
01:19 --> 01:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So I plot my ass down.
01:22 --> 01:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I watched all of game seven and man.
01:26 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_01]: What's that?
01:29 --> 01:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly what Mariner fans want?
01:32 --> 01:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Out of that game?
01:34 --> 01:37 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was probably therapeutic for Mariner fans in a way.
01:37 --> 01:38 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll say that.
01:40 --> 01:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Plutus fans in general have been pretty nice to us.
01:44 --> 02:01 [SPEAKER_01]: So watching that heartbreak you do feel a little bad But if I were to tell you after that game seven loss that the Mariners had but there would be a worst game seven loss suffered by the blue jays I mean you do it
02:02 --> 02:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Dude, I'm going to be real watching how that game 7 unfolded made the Mariners game 7 loss in the ALCS seem like a midweek L in May Holy shit.
02:14 --> 02:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean you're too else could you imagine being in that spot?
02:18 --> 02:21 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even want to think about that as Mariners fans
02:21 --> 02:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I would be a legitimately broken person until the end of time watching that game.
02:25 --> 02:30 [SPEAKER_00]: I was nervous in my own right, just sitting and watching with neutral viewing.
02:30 --> 02:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Some of you who didn't really get alter- like, ultra-affected one-way or another by who won.
02:35 --> 02:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God, I was just thinking about if the Mariners were in that game.
02:39 --> 02:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I would have been a dead person.
02:42 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_00]: That would have been, that would have been as bad as it could have gotten.
02:45 --> 02:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't be sitting here right now if that was awesome that situation.
02:49 --> 02:56 [SPEAKER_00]: To be two outs from a world series, and you lose it to Miguel Rowe.
02:56 --> 03:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
03:12 --> 03:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that homerun sucked while, but that arguably wasn't even like the, it might have been one of the worst parts, but there were so many other worse parts to experience a heartbreak to experience in that game.
03:26 --> 03:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the list is so long, it's like, what if IKF was one step further off of third base in the bottom of the ninth inning?
03:35 --> 04:00 [SPEAKER_00]: want like one step that's all what it's taken for him to beat the throw home from rohoss who literally almost fell in his ass anyway he's trying to feel the ball I was going to say imagine if that ball had taken rohoss six inches farther back he falls down there is no throw imagine if it takes some three inches farther back and he's not able to make an accurate throw home or what if he just throws the ball six inches to the right because he's trying to rush the throw period and then I can't have beats it.
04:01 --> 04:06 [SPEAKER_00]: What if Andy Pah has doesn't truck KK Hernandez like a safety to take that baseball away from him?
04:07 --> 04:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Cause if KK tried to make that catch, like breadbasket catch over the shoulder as he's about to run into the wall, there's no chance he holds on to that ball.
04:16 --> 04:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, so many things were right in the Blue Jay's hands.
04:21 --> 04:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And even with all that, they still had a chance in the bottom of the 11th inning.
04:25 --> 04:32 [SPEAKER_00]: But Alejandro Kirk, who is great of a year as he's had, is the ultimate double play machine with his speed, did the one thing he couldn't do.
04:32 --> 04:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And he grounded into it all the way.
04:34 --> 04:37 [SPEAKER_00]: And with three outs left in the season, they sack bonnid.
04:38 --> 04:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh God, you don't ever tell us the fun people.
04:41 --> 04:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Seriously, who watched that and thought that was a good idea.
04:46 --> 04:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't know about it.
04:48 --> 04:49 [SPEAKER_00]: No, butting.
04:51 --> 04:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me rehash some words I put out here on Sunday morning in our post.
04:54 --> 04:58 [SPEAKER_01]: If you haven't seen it, I'll just say it to you right here on the podcast.
05:00 --> 05:04 [SPEAKER_01]: The thing that hurts the most about losing is watching the other team celebrate.
05:04 --> 05:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Watch any other fan celebrate and you look at it and you say
05:07 --> 05:08 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not fair.
05:08 --> 05:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Why do they get to celebrate and we don't?
05:10 --> 05:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Especially in the scenario that the Mariners ran with the Blue Jays.
05:13 --> 05:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Two fan bases that hadn't won Jack's squat in 32 years for the Blue Jays 49 years for the Mariners.
05:20 --> 05:25 [SPEAKER_01]: It was time for somebody to celebrate and for someone to win something.
05:25 --> 05:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So mariner fans are sitting there with the sour taste in their mouth and their stomach tied to knots on that Monday night after the mariner's lose game seven and you look at all the blue taste fans celebrating and chugging champagne and Like loving the fact they're going in the world series and it's like that like the feeling that goes through my body and while's body and all viewers that that should be us right now
05:56 --> 06:00 [SPEAKER_01]: But after that outcome, I think it is kind of fair now.
06:00 --> 06:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I do think it is, so it evens out.
06:06 --> 06:08 [SPEAKER_00]: They got a real taste of their own medicine.
06:08 --> 06:10 [SPEAKER_00]: That's as bad as it gets.
06:10 --> 06:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I've ever seen a more excruciating loss.
06:12 --> 06:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the only way a loss could have been more excruciating is if the Cubs had actually ended up blowing that game 7 and 2016 and they'd still have their world series drought going after the Rajay Davis Helmer.
06:23 --> 06:24 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the only way I think it could have gotten worse.
06:25 --> 06:29 [SPEAKER_00]: But that is absolutely brutal for the blue days.
06:29 --> 06:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't even know if I have any more words for it besides I think most Mariners fans got what they wanted other serious What I wanted was a Dodger series victory.
06:38 --> 06:44 [SPEAKER_01]: I did not think it could be scripted quite like that But I don't think there was any chance.
06:44 --> 06:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I was hoping they went in four games, but
06:47 --> 06:49 [SPEAKER_00]: That's quite an alternative, what just happened?
06:49 --> 06:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Because then, then we get the satisfaction of saying the Mariners never had a chance in the first place.
06:53 --> 06:57 [SPEAKER_01]: But at the BlueJays, we're going to win that world series in seven games.
06:58 --> 07:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Lown, I would probably be in a bit more of a pissy mood here on this podcast.
07:01 --> 07:02 [SPEAKER_01]: Be in, like,
07:02 --> 07:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I think everyone at the Mariners sits there and sits down and understands now what they blew in that game seven.
07:08 --> 07:18 [SPEAKER_01]: You had a three-two series lead with the every advantage you needed to to go make the world series against an apparently beatable Dodgers team and you pissed it away.
07:19 --> 07:20 [SPEAKER_01]: But now the blue jays lose.
07:20 --> 07:22 [SPEAKER_01]: So not quite as much.
07:23 --> 07:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Although war in the trust tree,
07:25 --> 07:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I still don't think the Mariners beat the Dodgers.
07:27 --> 07:34 [SPEAKER_00]: The BlueJays were much more equipped to hang with them because their team that puts the ball in play, they string together all these great at bats.
07:35 --> 07:38 [SPEAKER_00]: The Mariners would have been striking out left and right against that pitching staff.
07:39 --> 07:40 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a fair point.
07:40 --> 07:51 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners didn't have Ernie Clement, who I set at the entire American League Championship series that I never wanted to see Ernie Clement ever again ever.
07:52 --> 07:57 [SPEAKER_01]: He went out and he set the hit record in a single postseason, so I feel very vindicated with that take.
07:58 --> 07:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Insane.
07:59 --> 08:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Ernie Clement and Kerry Carbender.
08:01 --> 08:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I might just turn all those abats off next year when they're on TV.
08:05 --> 08:11 [SPEAKER_01]: It's funny, like Vlad had this historic postseason yet Ernie Clement beat him and hits.
08:11 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy, isn't it?
08:15 --> 08:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do have one national perspective here and one national take to get to, before we dive into our picture grades, our starting picture grades.
08:24 --> 08:31 [SPEAKER_00]: If you were a person that's gonna use the Dodgers winning this world series as vindication for Major League Baseball needing a salary cap,
08:31 --> 08:35 [SPEAKER_00]: Do not come at me because I'm going to be like John Snow with a sword.
08:35 --> 08:47 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't blame the Dodgers for major league baseball problems with two thirds of the owners being cheap assholes who have no interest in winning baseball games.
08:48 --> 08:51 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, especially because the Blue Jays were two outs away from winning.
08:51 --> 08:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, this is our first repeat champion and major league baseball since.
08:56 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_00]: 2000, 25 years.
09:00 --> 09:03 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to hear Jack shit about a salary cap ever.
09:04 --> 09:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Pin this shit on the asshole owners who don't care about the game and don't care about winning.
09:09 --> 09:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Not the Dodgers who do.
09:13 --> 09:15 [SPEAKER_01]: That's my 10 this isn't this isn't just again.
09:15 --> 09:22 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just the Dodgers who spend the blue jays also spend a lot of money They tried to sign show hey.
09:22 --> 09:24 [SPEAKER_01]: They tried to sign Yamamoto.
09:24 --> 09:29 [SPEAKER_01]: They gave Vladite 500 million dollars
09:29 --> 09:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's not just paint the Dodgers here.
09:31 --> 09:38 [SPEAKER_01]: These are two teams who spend their money, well, the Dodgers just spend their money better than pretty much everybody else.
09:39 --> 09:41 [SPEAKER_01]: But let me repeat myself.
09:41 --> 09:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I mentioned this before.
09:42 --> 09:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me just say it again.
09:43 --> 09:49 [SPEAKER_01]: The reason the Dodgers have so many players to pay is because other teams in baseball don't want to pay them.
09:50 --> 09:50 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why.
09:52 --> 09:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, like the braves could have decided to pay Freddie Freeman, they didn't want to.
09:58 --> 09:59 [SPEAKER_00]: the list goes on here.
09:59 --> 10:02 [SPEAKER_00]: The raise could have paid Tyler Glassnell.
10:02 --> 10:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Didn't trade it up.
10:04 --> 10:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And Blake's now.
10:05 --> 10:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I was the every team could have signed Blake's now.
10:08 --> 10:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Didn't.
10:09 --> 10:14 [SPEAKER_00]: because he took these short deals and opted out and went to a place that wanted to pay a long term.
10:14 --> 10:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Every team could have traded for mooky bets, didn't.
10:17 --> 10:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Dodgers did and extended them.
10:19 --> 10:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, out like all these things line up to say, this is what the asshole owners are not doing and the teams that care about winning are doing.
10:28 --> 10:32 [SPEAKER_00]: By the way, this could be a hot take, but I'm gonna rip it off anyway.
10:33 --> 10:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember how I said after game five of the ALDS when the Mariners beat the Tigers
10:38 --> 10:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought Terric Scoobal and Scott Boris made some business decisions in the middle of that game.
10:42 --> 10:46 [SPEAKER_00]: How Terric Scoobal seemed like he took himself out before a hundred pitches?
10:47 --> 10:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you should know, but Yamamoto threw a hundred pitches in game six turned around in game seven through two and two third scoreless innings and is the biggest reason the Dodgers are now World Series champions.
10:59 --> 11:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yoshinobu Yamamoto not only got paid a shit ton of money by the Dodgers, but clearly it's a team and an organization that he loves and wants to go to war for every single chance he gets.
11:11 --> 11:14 [SPEAKER_00]: He volunteered to throw in game three out of a bullpen too.
11:15 --> 11:28 [SPEAKER_00]: When the Tigers offer tarick school four years for 80 fucking million dollars, why the fuck would that motivate any player to want to go put his ass on the line for an organization?
11:29 --> 11:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say a little caveat, if Terri Scooble was under a 10 year 325 million dollar contract, he's probably a bit more available correct correct, but when the Tigers offer him a bullshit deal, he's not going to go out there and put his ass on the line for them.
11:44 --> 11:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't blame him.
11:46 --> 11:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm talking about that.
11:48 --> 11:50 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, you're not.
11:51 --> 11:54 [SPEAKER_01]: No, it money provides a lot more things than just wins in losses.
11:54 --> 11:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, spending doesn't give guarantee you winning shit.
11:59 --> 12:01 [SPEAKER_01]: What happens to the second highest payroll and baseball allow?
12:04 --> 12:05 [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't win.
12:06 --> 12:06 [SPEAKER_00]: The Yankees?
12:07 --> 12:08 [SPEAKER_00]: They lost in the mess.
12:08 --> 12:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, the mess.
12:09 --> 12:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, not the.
12:10 --> 12:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I didn't make the flash in burn.
12:12 --> 12:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a stroke.
12:14 --> 12:16 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not it's seriously not all about spending money.
12:17 --> 12:20 [SPEAKER_00]: The Dodgers are the best team in baseball because they're the best organization in baseball.
12:20 --> 12:29 [SPEAKER_00]: They spend their money incredibly wisely and they also have the best like have in many years had the best farm system in baseball.
12:29 --> 12:32 [SPEAKER_00]: They treat their players better than anybody in baseball.
12:32 --> 12:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Go look at what they do down in the minor leagues.
12:35 --> 12:37 [SPEAKER_00]: When I spent a year call in minor league baseball,
12:37 --> 12:39 [SPEAKER_00]: I was in high A for the Dayton Dragons.
12:39 --> 12:40 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the Reds High A team.
12:40 --> 13:02 [SPEAKER_00]: When the Great Lakes Looms came to town, the Dodgers High A team, they have a traveling food truck that goes all around the Midwest League with them to every road series to every game at all the home games and is making them three high quality meals per day because the Dodgers pour money into the important things because the Dodgers care about winning baseball games.
13:02 --> 13:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's not all about payroll here.
13:04 --> 13:08 [SPEAKER_00]: It's that the Dodgers are just a better organization than everybody else and do it better than everybody else.
13:08 --> 13:10 [SPEAKER_00]: It goes beyond just spending on the free agents.
13:12 --> 13:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
13:12 --> 13:15 [SPEAKER_01]: There are many ways to invest into your team and to win games.
13:15 --> 13:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that needs to be the big takeaway here, but also think about some of the key heroes in this series.
13:23 --> 13:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Like Miguel Rojas is not a hero because the Dodgers overspent for him.
13:28 --> 13:29 [SPEAKER_01]: No, they just...
13:29 --> 13:32 [SPEAKER_01]: He was on the roster, signed for not a lot of money.
13:32 --> 13:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Max Muncie is one of the great development stories of all time that the Dodgers had in the last 15 years.
13:39 --> 13:47 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we'll Smith, this is draft pick that they developed, it brought to the big leagues, and extended long-term, because he was really good, and they developed him properly.
13:47 --> 13:48 [SPEAKER_01]: That's just a small example.
13:50 --> 13:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes?
13:51 --> 13:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Stop blaming this on the owners that want to care about the game.
13:55 --> 14:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Blame the Pirates, blame the A's, blame the Tigers, blame the Marlins, blame teams like that, stop blaming the Dodgers.
14:03 --> 14:18 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, while people are right that, yes, not every organization can spend like the Dodgers, every organization could get themselves into the top 10 and baseball and payroll and compete with the Dodgers, like the Blue Jays do.
14:19 --> 14:19 [SPEAKER_00]: They choose not to.
14:20 --> 14:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And if I'm wrong about that, I'm going to be saying this a hell of a lot over the next year and a half, especially when this lockout comes next year.
14:26 --> 14:30 [SPEAKER_00]: You want people to not believe you, Bob Nutting,
14:30 --> 14:36 [SPEAKER_00]: and John Fisher and all these owners for all these bad teams, open your book and prove it.
14:36 --> 14:42 [SPEAKER_00]: But you won't do that because everybody knows you're making money and you don't want to be and you don't want to get scrutinized in a public light.
14:43 --> 14:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Open your book or I'm not believing you for one second.
14:46 --> 14:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the best way that baseball can continue to thrive.
14:51 --> 14:57 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't need to say go out and compete for all the free agents, but you do need to pay your best players.
14:57 --> 15:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Like Sandy I'll contour with the marlins.
15:00 --> 15:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Marlins should extend him.
15:01 --> 15:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Terrible, should stay in Detroit, right?
15:04 --> 15:08 [SPEAKER_01]: The A's have a number of really good young players, like Nick Kurtz.
15:08 --> 15:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Nick Kurtz should be getting extended at a top of the line market.
15:13 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_01]: But do you think the A's are gonna pay him that, like probably not, like Nick Kurtz is gonna get traded to a team that's gonna spend a hell of a lot more money than the A's will spend on him.
15:22 --> 15:26 [SPEAKER_01]: And let's see's willing to take, like a Brent Rooker way below market deal.
15:27 --> 15:33 [SPEAKER_00]: and Brent Rucker took that deal because he was in his 30s by the time he hit free agency, he probably wasn't gonna get a ton of money anyway.
15:33 --> 15:34 [SPEAKER_00]: So it makes sense for Brent Rucker.
15:35 --> 15:42 [SPEAKER_00]: Kurt is so young that, of course, he's gonna get traded because in less those owners change, nothing's gonna change.
15:42 --> 15:47 [SPEAKER_00]: What baseball needs is a salary floor, not a cap, they need a floor anyway.
15:48 --> 15:49 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't have to deal with it.
15:49 --> 15:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, one probably doesn't come without the other, which is sad, but yeah.
15:57 --> 16:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we should just talk about some mariners starter grays because we're going to have a whole year and a half to talk about this.
16:01 --> 16:04 [SPEAKER_00]: You better believe when lockout season comes around next year.
16:04 --> 16:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be exploding on owners and baseball just about every show.
16:07 --> 16:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And not to go.
16:09 --> 16:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get one.
16:10 --> 16:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's get to the starting picture grades.
16:12 --> 16:15 [SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be a little different than how we did our position grades.
16:15 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_01]: We graded all of the position players by the position they played, not by the individual player itself.
16:21 --> 16:25 [SPEAKER_01]: For rotation, we're just going to go one through five through the Mariners starting rotation.
16:26 --> 16:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I would like to start at the top, while let's start off on a high note and go from there.
16:31 --> 16:32 [SPEAKER_01]: What is your grade for Brian Wu?
16:34 --> 16:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Can he get anything other than an A?
16:36 --> 16:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course he gets an A.
16:38 --> 16:40 [SPEAKER_00]: What a hell of a A.
16:42 --> 16:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you can, you gave me a plus, that's fine.
16:44 --> 16:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I guess I think of an A plus grade as what we gave Cal or what Terrix scoobled it or what Paul Scheme did.
16:50 --> 17:06 [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe we wasn't quite that, but yeah, he gets an A. I mean, you could listen to this that the only players that struck out more batters and walked fewer than Brian Woo this year were Terrix scoobled Paul Scheme's Garrett Kurshe and Joe Ryan.
17:06 --> 17:08 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like A plus territory.
17:09 --> 17:10 [SPEAKER_00]: We're splitting hairs.
17:10 --> 17:11 [SPEAKER_00]: He was unbelievable.
17:11 --> 17:12 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you want me to say?
17:13 --> 17:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what we always Imagine Brian Woo could be what is sealing can be if everything clicks for him.
17:20 --> 17:24 [SPEAKER_00]: He stays healthy the stuff all plays up That was what we saw in 2025.
17:25 --> 17:34 [SPEAKER_00]: What we saw in 2025 was one of the best pitchers in major league baseball And for a guy that was drafted in the sixth round with Tommy John surgery at a Cal Poly
17:35 --> 17:51 [SPEAKER_01]: anchored a pitching staff that was expected to be one of the best of baseball this year and Brian will and consider what he had to take on in this rotation because the rest of his rotation was hurt at some point this season and he himself again was hurt at the end of the season but throughout
17:51 --> 18:05 [SPEAKER_01]: April, and May, and June, and July, and August, he had to be the Bulldog very well, Logan Gilbert, George Kirby, Bryce Miller, all had to take turns on the injured list, and the Mariners needed somebody to step up to the front of that rotation.
18:05 --> 18:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Because those three guys I named that one on the I.L.
18:08 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_01]: At some point, I mean, you could say in 2024, had showed themselves to arguably be the best picture in the starting rotation.
18:14 --> 18:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Brian, we had a really good end to 2024.
18:17 --> 18:20 [SPEAKER_01]: People are like, okay, let's go see him do it for an entire season.
18:20 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And while those guys struggled, Brian will send it to just another level.
18:25 --> 18:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And he did it by just being himself.
18:29 --> 18:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember that conversation we had at the beginning of the season?
18:31 --> 18:35 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, look, Logan Gilbert added new pitches, George Kirby added new pitches.
18:36 --> 18:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Bryce Miller added new pitches.
18:37 --> 18:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Brian, who didn't add anything else?
18:40 --> 18:41 [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
18:41 --> 18:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, we know Brian, who could use a secondary.
18:44 --> 18:45 [SPEAKER_01]: but didn't add one.
18:46 --> 18:46 [SPEAKER_01]: What do Brian would do?
18:46 --> 18:52 [SPEAKER_01]: He essentially just doubled down on his pitching plan from the season prior and it was even better than it was before.
18:53 --> 18:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Worked out great.
18:55 --> 18:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Because that fastball is historic is what it is.
18:59 --> 19:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he was by run value.
19:01 --> 19:03 [SPEAKER_00]: He was top 10 baseball on that foreseen fastball.
19:03 --> 19:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I put up a 21 run value on his foreseamer, which is crazy.
19:08 --> 19:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, his two sliders, because he throws a slider and a sweeper, they were not bad pitches.
19:14 --> 19:16 [SPEAKER_00]: It just was two fastballs were so good.
19:17 --> 19:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Like opponents hit under 200 against that slider and the sweeper.
19:20 --> 19:24 [SPEAKER_00]: They would slug on it at times, but the batting average on it was low.
19:24 --> 19:26 [SPEAKER_00]: And when you pair that with the two fastballs,
19:26 --> 19:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he is kind of the unicorn of this staff where he's not these other guys don't kitchen sink people that's not the right word, but they have such an arsenal where Brian Wu says this is what I got either go hit it or sit down and that's what he does that's we did all year he said go hit my stop or sit down nobody hits his fastballs and it it allowed him to go six innings twenty five starts in a row and be one of the best
19:54 --> 20:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I really, I think it's only the guys I mentioned that were ahead of him and strike out to walk rate.
20:00 --> 20:03 [SPEAKER_01]: That can throw their fastballs much as Brian Wu doesn't get away with it.
20:04 --> 20:21 [SPEAKER_01]: And it, part of that comes with having multiple fastballs, so part of it comes with being unique or big or you throw incredibly hard, Brian Wu just has one of the most unique slots for his fastball and all the baseball, and allows him to throw those pitches 70% of the time, fill up the strike zone and not get hit very much.
20:21 --> 20:26 [SPEAKER_01]: There's one little nugget I found if you're curious on bit of more of a like an in-depth
20:26 --> 20:29 [SPEAKER_01]: look on things that improve for Brian with this year.
20:29 --> 20:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So the fast balls like those didn't really change that much.
20:31 --> 20:34 [SPEAKER_01]: They were good last year and they're really good this year as well.
20:34 --> 20:36 [SPEAKER_01]: He tightened up both of his breaking balls.
20:36 --> 20:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the Vs sliders, a sweeper and a slider.
20:38 --> 20:42 [SPEAKER_01]: He tightened up the movement on it a little bit and it generated some more swing and miss.
20:42 --> 20:47 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that comes with the fact he lowered his arm angle just like a little bit this year.
20:47 --> 20:51 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that feels different really at all for Brian will.
20:51 --> 21:20 [SPEAKER_01]: He did do that and it was a little bit more effective, which helped him increase his strikeout rate from not really being a strikeout pitcher when he came up in the minors to now I would say he is a strikeout pitcher and he's like a top 20 percent K guy in baseball as a starter, which is a great combination of have if you're not walking anybody so He made these little, he made these little tweaks these little adjustments that have helped him be a top tier starting pitcher and something the Mariners really needed this year because without him
21:21 --> 21:28 [SPEAKER_01]: we go from talking about an average starting rotation to close to probably about a third in terms of production.
21:29 --> 21:31 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not in the playoffs this year without them.
21:31 --> 21:31 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
21:32 --> 21:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's why it gets, that's why it gets in a plus.
21:35 --> 21:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Given that he had to put the backpack straps on and take this rotation to where they needed to go.
21:41 --> 21:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because they really kind of took the training wheels off with them this year.
21:44 --> 21:45 [SPEAKER_00]: There wasn't innings limits.
21:45 --> 21:47 [SPEAKER_00]: There wasn't taking them out early of starts.
21:47 --> 21:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It was just go.
21:48 --> 21:48 [SPEAKER_00]: go do it.
21:49 --> 21:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And they have to with all the injuries that they endured in this rotation.
21:52 --> 22:06 [SPEAKER_00]: If Ryan Wood had injury problems this year too, where it had been more of what you saw at points in 2024, where maybe through four dominant innings, and then you know, leaves with a minor groin injury, or maybe he's got
22:06 --> 22:08 [SPEAKER_00]: his maybe his arms not feeling perfect.
22:09 --> 22:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe he's got a knee thing.
22:11 --> 22:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I'm not getting all those injuries right.
22:13 --> 22:17 [SPEAKER_00]: But you remember in 24, there was often little things that he was leaving games with a lot.
22:17 --> 22:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Cal kind of gave him a stern talking to saying, hey, like you got a battle through this stuff.
22:22 --> 22:22 [SPEAKER_00]: We need you.
22:22 --> 22:23 [SPEAKER_00]: You're too important.
22:23 --> 22:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's when he started throwing six, seven innings all the time.
22:26 --> 22:30 [SPEAKER_00]: If we would gone, a lot of those four plus hitting starts and had to miss
22:30 --> 22:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Certain starts or have them skip throughout the year more often rather than go in the 25 starts in a row with six plus settings of work They're not in the playoffs Now the injury at the end of the season did hurt definitely did because I think the Mariners match up a little bit better with the blue jays That Brian was fully healthy and good to go on that ALCS and they just they did they did not have him and his performance at the bullpen was fine
22:56 --> 22:57 [SPEAKER_01]: It's fine.
22:58 --> 23:02 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't really incorporate his posties and numbers into this because it just really wasn't that much.
23:03 --> 23:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Four innings.
23:04 --> 23:08 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think I think the hell did come back to get him at the end of the year.
23:08 --> 23:11 [SPEAKER_01]: But not the little finicky things, not as much as you can do.
23:11 --> 23:16 [SPEAKER_01]: And I would guess he was pitching through something there.
23:16 --> 23:18 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm guessing he was still feeling it in that posty.
23:18 --> 23:20 [SPEAKER_01]: So is what it is.
23:20 --> 23:24 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's good enough for me to get an A plus just based off the body of work he had to do this year.
23:25 --> 23:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Next starting pitcher, Logan Gilbert, while what's your grade?
23:31 --> 23:35 [SPEAKER_00]: This is an interesting one, because it's about how you grade Logan Gilbert.
23:35 --> 23:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you just grade him off what his numbers say when he was on the field?
23:38 --> 23:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Or do you grade him based off what you expected him to do versus what he actually did?
23:44 --> 23:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I went with a B.
23:45 --> 23:49 [SPEAKER_00]: It was still a two and a half win season for Logan when he was on the field.
23:49 --> 23:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And as the RA was still in the threes and the expected were still pretty good,
23:54 --> 24:10 [SPEAKER_00]: they didn't get enough out of him this year and it's you can't blame an injury on anybody injuries happen but objectively even when he came back from the injury it just felt like he wasn't at his sharpest a lot of twenty twenty five so not a bad year by any means but I'd say it was a B.
24:13 --> 24:14 [SPEAKER_01]: We love looking at numbers don't we?
24:15 --> 24:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
24:17 --> 24:23 [SPEAKER_01]: If you just looked at numbers for this year for Logan Gilbert, you would think his season is a lot better than it actually was.
24:24 --> 24:28 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think like overall it wasn't a bad year from Logan.
24:28 --> 24:31 [SPEAKER_01]: I honestly just think he never got back into a groove from being injured.
24:32 --> 24:37 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the only real Logan Gilbert we saw this year for the most part was his opening night start.
24:38 --> 24:40 [SPEAKER_01]: For everyone's seven innings, struck out eight, loud one run.
24:42 --> 24:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Since that point.
24:43 --> 24:57 [SPEAKER_01]: I just feel like we haven't seen the actual Logan Gilbert, and I can't say with any certainty that he was actually feeling things throughout the year, but it never quite all seems there for him.
24:57 --> 25:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that, like, is that out crazy?
25:02 --> 25:04 [SPEAKER_00]: No, because just watching his starts, you could feel it.
25:04 --> 25:06 [SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't putting hitters away as easy.
25:06 --> 25:09 [SPEAKER_00]: He was getting into a lot of deep counts to a lot of hitters.
25:09 --> 25:11 [SPEAKER_00]: His pitch count would run up early.
25:12 --> 25:14 [SPEAKER_00]: It just wasn't typical Logan Gilbert.
25:15 --> 25:20 [SPEAKER_01]: And despite all that, some of these peripherals are as good as they've ever been for them.
25:20 --> 25:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, someone's expected numbers were better than they were last year.
25:23 --> 25:25 [SPEAKER_01]: His expected area was right there at three.
25:25 --> 25:28 [SPEAKER_01]: His fit was low as x-fifth was under three.
25:28 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Yet a 32% strikeout rate in a 5.8% walk rate.
25:33 --> 25:36 [SPEAKER_01]: The status of diversity with Brian Wu, which is strikeout rate minus walk rate.
25:36 --> 25:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And you get that number and you stack it up.
25:39 --> 25:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Among all qualified pitchers in baseball, Brian Wu and that category was fifth.
25:43 --> 25:48 [SPEAKER_01]: If Logan Gilbert was qualified, he'd be first in all a baseball this year.
25:49 --> 25:50 [SPEAKER_01]: He'd be like, really?
25:50 --> 25:59 [SPEAKER_01]: At points this year didn't seem like it because Logan couldn't get deep into starts, especially in the postseason, unfortunately, against the Blue Jays.
26:00 --> 26:03 [SPEAKER_01]: but like from a raw numbers perspective, it looked really good.
26:03 --> 26:05 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why it's like so confusing trying to judge his season.
26:05 --> 26:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I ended up giving him a B minus because overall it was good.
26:09 --> 26:15 [SPEAKER_01]: It just wasn't Logan Gilbert good because we saw it Logan Gilbert good was last year.
26:17 --> 26:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it wasn't what he did in 2025.
26:18 --> 26:20 [SPEAKER_00]: 2025 was best season.
26:21 --> 26:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And he was healthy all year and he made every start.
26:23 --> 26:25 [SPEAKER_00]: That just wasn't the case this year, unfortunately.
26:26 --> 26:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's a fair grade.
26:28 --> 26:30 [SPEAKER_00]: The B-minus is probably going off a little bit more of eye test.
26:30 --> 26:33 [SPEAKER_00]: The night test here might not be the worst thing, because you could just feel it.
26:34 --> 26:35 [SPEAKER_00]: You could feel it throughout every start.
26:35 --> 26:37 [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't the same Logan Gilbert.
26:37 --> 26:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And part of it's grading him on the curve of what you expected him to be, which was the ace of this rotation.
26:42 --> 26:46 [SPEAKER_00]: He got handed the ball for opening night for the first time in his career and said you've earned this.
26:47 --> 26:50 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, you can't blame anything on injuries.
26:50 --> 26:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Injuries do happen.
26:51 --> 26:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And it happened to Logan Gilbert this year for really the first time in his career.
26:54 --> 26:55 [SPEAKER_00]: His big lead career.
26:56 --> 27:00 [SPEAKER_00]: but the results of the season once he got back from that injury just weren't the same.
27:00 --> 27:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I was trying to find a number to back up that Logan Gilbert was doing something wrong this year, but I couldn't find it.
27:09 --> 27:11 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you feel like he was pitching ahead a lot?
27:14 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Didn't feel like it.
27:16 --> 27:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what I thought too, but I went and looked and it's the exact same as it was last year.
27:21 --> 27:24 [SPEAKER_01]: He got into two strike counts this year, more often than he did last year.
27:26 --> 27:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So you'd say, that's good.
27:29 --> 27:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that should be really good.
27:30 --> 27:37 [SPEAKER_01]: But he just meant he could not, he could not always put away hitters when he needed to.
27:37 --> 27:42 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he would strike them out, but he would get hit at the worst times and it would drive up his pitch count as well.
27:43 --> 27:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the one thing I found was his slider wasn't very good this year.
27:47 --> 27:50 [SPEAKER_00]: It was his best pitch last year, it wasn't in 25.
27:50 --> 28:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how much of that has to do with the injury, but if you want to look at something that dropped off from 24 to 25, this year there was a big difference, it's lighter, we got hit pretty hard.
28:04 --> 28:09 [SPEAKER_01]: I think of Logan Gilbert as a 100% healthy next year, I think we're going to see the best season we've ever seen from him.
28:10 --> 28:11 [SPEAKER_01]: that's what this year taught me.
28:12 --> 28:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So he needs to, I think, sacrifice maybe a little bit of swing in miss to bring back the efficiency of what he pitched with last year because he let all baseball innings last year.
28:21 --> 28:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I like that version of Logan Gilbert, more innings the better.
28:25 --> 28:37 [SPEAKER_01]: When you have a whole inning, per start, chopped off your total, and your hurt for a month and change, kind of hurts your overall production to this rotation, especially when that is your main calling card,
28:38 --> 28:39 [SPEAKER_01]: to this rotation and to this team.
28:40 --> 28:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So if he's healthy and he's feeling good next year, then I feel pretty confident watching that from Logan Goverk.
28:45 --> 28:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Because he's got all the pitches.
28:46 --> 28:48 [SPEAKER_01]: His splutter is still as nasty as ever.
28:48 --> 28:56 [SPEAKER_01]: I just think from a command perspective, he needs to get a little bit more in tune to pitch better next year.
28:57 --> 28:59 [SPEAKER_01]: And ever Joe Doyle talked about this a little bit as well.
28:59 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_01]: When you're Logan and you watch Logan pitch, he has so many moving parts in his wind up.
29:05 --> 29:25 [SPEAKER_01]: that things mechanically can get thrown out of whack very quickly think of the difference between George Kirby or Brian Woofrowing versus Logan Gilbert throwing and think of how much more movement Logan has and his wind up than those guys do those guys it's very smooth Logan is jerking everything around a little bit more and things can get thrown off a little bit
29:25 --> 29:35 [SPEAKER_01]: But overall, sort of an incomplete season for Logan Gilbert, and I wish his postseason performance was better, which Dings is great for me, because he was uncompetitive in DALCS.
29:36 --> 29:37 [SPEAKER_01]: It's too bad because they really needed him.
29:40 --> 29:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:40 --> 29:45 [SPEAKER_00]: Now he was pretty clutching game five of the DS, but just not in the CS.
29:45 --> 29:51 [SPEAKER_01]: It was pretty clear that tigers were a much better match up for him because they swung and missed so much.
29:51 --> 29:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Meanwhile, the blue jays were on the total opposite end of the spectrum while Logan's trying to get them to chase his stuff.
29:58 --> 30:00 [SPEAKER_01]: They wouldn't chase when he would throw it in the strike zone.
30:00 --> 30:01 [SPEAKER_01]: They would hit him.
30:01 --> 30:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Meanwhile, the tigers would swing a miss out at no problem.
30:04 --> 30:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
30:04 --> 30:07 [SPEAKER_01]: The next picture is George Kirby.
30:07 --> 30:07 [SPEAKER_01]: What's your grade?
30:10 --> 30:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Another tough grade.
30:11 --> 30:14 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, another season that was affected by some injuries.
30:15 --> 30:30 [SPEAKER_00]: said C plus again he he's similar to Logan in some ways where a lot of the expected numbers said he was unlucky and should have been a little bit better but results based another guy that just felt like he never truly got into a rhythm this year outside of the postseason.
30:32 --> 30:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is like the second consecutive season we've kind of waited for Kirby to take that next step forward and we haven't seen it.
30:41 --> 30:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we, he's, he's, he's, he's looked good at some points this year.
30:45 --> 30:49 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, I think we saw some of the best version of George Kirby wait's in this year.
30:49 --> 30:53 [SPEAKER_01]: We also saw some of the worst.
30:53 --> 30:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:54 --> 30:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like the 14 strikeout outing in Anaheim was nuts.
30:58 --> 31:00 [SPEAKER_00]: but he didn't repeat a lot of that.
31:00 --> 31:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Not that you're always gonna strike out 14, but there just wasn't enough ace level Kirby starts throughout 25.
31:09 --> 31:14 [SPEAKER_00]: In a year where you were really hoping he was gonna take the Logan Gilbert jump that Logan took from 23 to 24.
31:15 --> 31:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Part of it was the injury and he obviously started the entire season behind and was playing from behind because he didn't get back on the field till May, like mid-May, but unfortunately,
31:27 --> 31:35 [SPEAKER_00]: it was it was a season he was trying to do a lot of catch up and it just felt like he never truly got into a rhythm during the regular season.
31:36 --> 31:50 [SPEAKER_01]: And whenever you have those starts like you had against the race, read just like Stunk, when we talk about like the bottom tier, like it was about as bad as it could possibly get, which is not what you want to see from a guy like George Kirby.
31:51 --> 31:54 [SPEAKER_01]: He did get some more swing and miss this year, which was a positive.
31:54 --> 32:00 [SPEAKER_01]: We said, hey, you can sacrifice a little bit of command, a bit of a little bit of throwing in the strike zone.
32:00 --> 32:06 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're gonna go out there and you're gonna strike some more guys out and get some more swing and miss,
32:06 --> 32:11 [SPEAKER_01]: but it didn't lead to him preventing more runs this year, which was unfortunate.
32:12 --> 32:26 [SPEAKER_01]: The thing with Logan George in the next guy will grade, it is difficult to account for how much the injury affected them for George at the beginning of the season and ramping up for Bryce in the middle of the season for Logan in the middle of the season.
32:27 --> 32:34 [SPEAKER_01]: If these guys just pitch an entirely full 20, 25 season without injury, how different does this grade look?
32:34 --> 32:36 [SPEAKER_01]: How different
32:38 --> 32:39 [SPEAKER_01]: Who knows, right?
32:40 --> 32:47 [SPEAKER_01]: But for George, I just didn't think there was enough progression this year, which is why I had to put him down in the sea range, which is unfortunate.
32:48 --> 32:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I also think George pitches next year completely healthy is going to be as good as ever.
32:55 --> 32:57 [SPEAKER_00]: His two seabird took a big drop off this year.
32:58 --> 32:59 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was, that was new.
33:00 --> 33:04 [SPEAKER_00]: That he's never had a problem with a sinker and his entire Big League career.
33:04 --> 33:07 [SPEAKER_00]: 22, 23, 24, that was always one of the pitches that really worked for him.
33:07 --> 33:10 [SPEAKER_00]: This year, Hader has hit over 300 against it.
33:10 --> 33:12 [SPEAKER_00]: They slugged over 500 against it.
33:12 --> 33:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So that pitch really got crushed.
33:14 --> 33:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how much of that has to do with the fact of how much he struggled the third time through the order of this year is that he didn't have his sinker playing up to his best, but you look at where the drop-off might have come from this year aside from the injuries.
33:28 --> 33:29 [SPEAKER_00]: That's one that jumps out.
33:30 --> 33:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Was his two seamer just didn't play up.
33:37 --> 33:39 [SPEAKER_00]: like it's forced to even in a slider are always good.
33:39 --> 33:41 [SPEAKER_00]: They're just not outpitches.
33:41 --> 33:44 [SPEAKER_00]: They're effective pitches, but they just don't get crazy swing and mess.
33:45 --> 33:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Not consistently out.
33:46 --> 33:49 [SPEAKER_01]: It really is Kirby dependent on how good those are.
33:50 --> 33:58 [SPEAKER_01]: In those two starts against the angels where we struck out 14, we saw top tier, top tier effectiveness from those pitches.
33:59 --> 34:00 [SPEAKER_01]: But,
34:00 --> 34:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Kirby's not bringing, doesn't usually bring that every single time, and it is hard for some pitchers to do that, but when he's not getting that swing and miss, he's got to rely a little bit more in contact, and the sinkers a bit more of a contact pitch, and we doesn't have that, then he gets himself in a little bit of trouble.
34:15 --> 34:28 [SPEAKER_01]: If people want to feel a little bit better about George Kirby, if you just take that race, start out this year where he went to an innings and gave up seven earned runs, his era for the season was 377, and his expected numbers are a lot closer to his career norms.
34:29 --> 34:33 [SPEAKER_01]: a little bit of cherry-picking there, but it might make you feel better, too.
34:35 --> 34:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
34:35 --> 34:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's right.
34:38 --> 34:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Next starter on here is Bryce Miller.
34:40 --> 34:43 [SPEAKER_01]: What is your Bryce Miller 2025 grade?
34:44 --> 34:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know what a fair grade is to give here, because it was clear that even more than Logan and Kirby who were on the I.L.
34:51 --> 34:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And then came off the I.L.
34:53 --> 34:54 [SPEAKER_00]: and tried to play catch up.
34:55 --> 34:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Bryce,
34:57 --> 35:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think it's pretty clear Bryce was pitching through a lot this year and he tried to give it his all and get out there every day and try to give him the best he had.
35:07 --> 35:09 [SPEAKER_00]: But it was clear he was trying to pitch through some stuff this year.
35:09 --> 35:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I think so look, it's results based what would I give him?
35:14 --> 35:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I'd say C minus, but I don't even feel great about doing that because I know what we saw was not Bryce Miller.
35:22 --> 35:24 [SPEAKER_00]: This was not, oh, Bryce Miller.
35:24 --> 35:29 [SPEAKER_00]: took a big step back and he didn't have his stuff and all of a sudden everything fell off a cliff forum.
35:29 --> 35:32 [SPEAKER_00]: It was now he spent two months on the I.L.
35:32 --> 35:35 [SPEAKER_00]: and even before that, I think it was pretty evident that he was trying to pitch through a lot.
35:36 --> 35:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So I guess I'll give him a C-minus, but again, I really don't feel good about doing it.
35:41 --> 35:44 [SPEAKER_01]: His greatest saved by his postseason performance.
35:44 --> 35:45 [SPEAKER_01]: He was great.
35:45 --> 35:56 [SPEAKER_01]: He stepped up in a huge for the Mariners with Brian Wu out and was their best starter this postseason, but the regular season was lost within the first two months.
35:56 --> 36:05 [SPEAKER_01]: The fact that he was bad for two months and he was out for two months, and this was just trying to regain his footing, the final two months of the season, which were better.
36:05 --> 36:13 [SPEAKER_01]: They were more brisemilor-like, strikeout rate was up, a little bit more in control of his pitches, but still it wasn't overall great.
36:13 --> 36:16 [SPEAKER_01]: If you looked at Bryce's savant page from this year, you'd say he's a minor leader.
36:17 --> 36:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess it looks awful this year.
36:20 --> 36:34 [SPEAKER_01]: But Bryce was just sort of missing the effectiveness on all of his pitches in the injury took a toll on that, whether it was the dip in velocity at the beginning of the year, which affected I'd say everything, but most affected his fastball is best pitch.
36:34 --> 36:43 [SPEAKER_01]: then in this final two months of the season given that he hadn't been throwing his off-speed pitches all season long, it's harder to be as effective with those when you're not as dialed in.
36:44 --> 36:55 [SPEAKER_01]: So that just collectively comes together and paints a bad picture on Bryce's 2025 season, but out of all the guys who were affected by injury, it was clear to say Bryce Miller was the most affected.
36:55 --> 37:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm hoping Bryce bounces back next year, and looks a lot better, and he feels healthy and good.
37:00 --> 37:05 [SPEAKER_01]: It's very interesting that he's deciding not to get surgery on his elbow.
37:05 --> 37:12 [SPEAKER_01]: He must think that it's fine enough that he doesn't need to pitch, that he doesn't need to get it cleaned up.
37:12 --> 37:13 [SPEAKER_01]: But effect is off season.
37:13 --> 37:15 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see whether or not that's the right decision or not.
37:18 --> 37:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm assuming he's gotten he like he's consulted with people about this.
37:23 --> 37:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
37:23 --> 37:24 [SPEAKER_00]: He's got.
37:24 --> 37:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like like if I remember right, what was reported, it was myster Keith Meister was the doctor.
37:30 --> 37:42 [SPEAKER_00]: He was working with all throughout the year, which is, you know, if you pay attention to this stuff, one of baseball's big doctors, it's like him and Ella Trash is the other and there's one or two more Andrews is the right.
37:42 --> 37:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like James Andrews Neil, Ella Trash Keith Meister, like the three big baseball doctors.
37:48 --> 37:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I think it was nicer that Bryce worked with, and I am sure he is consulted with him in terms of how to approach what he should do with his arm going forward.
38:00 --> 38:04 [SPEAKER_00]: And if he's gotten medical advice saying, hey, you can work through this, then okay.
38:05 --> 38:06 [SPEAKER_00]: There must be enough.
38:06 --> 38:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a doctor.
38:07 --> 38:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to defer to what I'm sure a doctor has told him about how to take course of action on this.
38:14 --> 38:19 [SPEAKER_00]: and say, all right, I think you can trust Bryce and his medical people to make the right decision.
38:20 --> 38:26 [SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, in terms of his season as a whole, it's even more than he just wasn't good for two months.
38:26 --> 38:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Because remember, he went on the IL twice.
38:28 --> 38:31 [SPEAKER_00]: He went on the IL, came off the IL for a couple starts.
38:31 --> 38:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It was very clear in those couple outings that
38:35 --> 38:41 [SPEAKER_00]: something just still wasn't right, and then he took the longer period of time on the injured list over the summer.
38:41 --> 38:48 [SPEAKER_00]: So it was a lot of up and down and up and down and even in the middle of the year, you could tell it just wasn't true, Bryce Miller.
38:49 --> 38:50 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why it's so hard for me to give a grade here.
38:51 --> 38:52 [SPEAKER_00]: I almost just want to give it an incomplete.
38:52 --> 39:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I know we have to give a letter grade, which is why I said C minus, but I don't know what's just feels right to say I for incomplete, because you know how much you have to battle through this here.
39:01 --> 39:03 [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't feel right to give them a real
39:04 --> 39:15 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm right there with you, so that's why next year's gonna be very important for him because then he's gonna start gearing himself up to make some money because think about it how Bryce Miller's three big league seasons have been.
39:15 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_01]: It was an up and down rookie year with some highs and some lows.
39:18 --> 39:22 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a great sophomore year and a really, really bad junior year.
39:23 --> 39:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So he's got, he's got a lot to do.
39:26 --> 39:27 [SPEAKER_01]: He's got to improve on.
39:27 --> 39:34 [SPEAKER_01]: He can't roll out a five six eighty array again with his sub 20% strikeout rate.
39:34 --> 39:37 [SPEAKER_01]: The whiff is going to really need to come back for our next year.
39:37 --> 39:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And I would imagine if he's able to hold his velocity a little bit better, that is going to be the case.
39:41 --> 39:42 [SPEAKER_01]: He'll be fine.
39:42 --> 39:42 [SPEAKER_01]: But
39:42 --> 39:43 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see.
39:44 --> 39:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, when he's at his best, he's got three really good pitches, forcing him to seem splitter.
39:49 --> 39:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And if he's healthy, there's no reason he shouldn't be able to do that again.
39:52 --> 39:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I would assume the injuries really mess with his splitter this year too, because the splitter takes a lot of wear and tear on your arm.
39:57 --> 40:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're not feeling 100%, I have a hard time believing he could throw that thing with full effectiveness.
40:02 --> 40:04 [SPEAKER_00]: The way he did last year when it looked just unheadable at times.
40:06 --> 40:10 [SPEAKER_01]: The last picture we're going to hand out a grade four is Luis Castillo.
40:10 --> 40:11 [SPEAKER_01]: What is your grade four model?
40:13 --> 40:14 [SPEAKER_00]: All these are hard.
40:15 --> 40:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Be minus, ultimately, when the year comes down to it, he had a three, five ERA, and he posted, and he was healthy.
40:23 --> 40:34 [SPEAKER_00]: But as we know with Luis Castillo over the last couple of years, there are things that just don't really favor him all that much, and there are things that he's just struggled with over the last couple of seasons.
40:34 --> 40:38 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, by the numbers, he put up a quality season.
40:38 --> 40:45 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you know that when you look at it, he still gets hit really hard, he struggles with lefties,
40:45 --> 40:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So you factor that all in and I said, be minus.
40:49 --> 40:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's the Mariners best picture down the stretch in the most important part of the season.
40:52 --> 40:54 [SPEAKER_01]: That is not getting forgotten here in my grade.
40:55 --> 40:57 [SPEAKER_01]: So I gave them a B minus as well.
40:58 --> 41:02 [SPEAKER_01]: The problem is you just look at a lot of the peripherals with Louise Cassio and you do see it.
41:02 --> 41:03 [SPEAKER_01]: It's still clearly regressing.
41:03 --> 41:11 [SPEAKER_01]: We were hoping that from last year to this year, we would see some halt in the regression in some areas.
41:11 --> 41:31 [SPEAKER_01]: not really like swing a miss fast ball velocity all ticking down a little bit but he did pitch decently in the postseason he did pitch well down the stretch he was very healthy this season and he pitched very well at home so that's enough for me for a B minus there's just not there's not much due we can do here to project that he's going to take back up
41:32 --> 41:56 [SPEAKER_01]: in the future because he's now had three seasons in a row where his peripherals have stepped backwards into the blue aka not good for him as he's aging players age that's okay like it happens for guys but to understand like that's where Louise Castillo is at at this point of his career be minus based off of the production for this year but still some concerning things going forward.
41:58 --> 42:02 [SPEAKER_00]: concerning enough that he wouldn't be on the roster anymore, question mark?
42:04 --> 42:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, for anybody that doesn't remember that the no-trade clause of Luis Castillo's contract goes up and expires on January 1st.
42:11 --> 42:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So when the new year hits, in less than two months here as of time of recording, that's when things could really ramp up in Luis Castillo talks.
42:20 --> 42:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Entirely possible.
42:23 --> 42:25 [SPEAKER_01]: When see it's definite,
42:26 --> 42:28 [SPEAKER_01]: I, I think they'll trade him if they need his money cleared up.
42:30 --> 42:33 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they want to go sign somebody or they need to extend guys.
42:34 --> 42:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Then they'd consider trading him.
42:36 --> 42:42 [SPEAKER_01]: They're not going to get a lot back for him and they're going to create a bit of an issue for themselves at the beginning of next year where they can.
42:42 --> 42:47 [SPEAKER_01]: They can put Logan Evans into the rotation and that's fine.
42:48 --> 42:55 [SPEAKER_01]: But they might not be quite as productive as they would even with and year older version of Luis Castillo.
42:55 --> 42:58 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what they have to weigh if they're going to make a decision like that.
42:59 --> 43:03 [SPEAKER_01]: But they can see it just, they can see it just, they can see it just like I came it.
43:04 --> 43:07 [SPEAKER_00]: I was just saying, not that Logan couldn't end up being really good in your two.
43:07 --> 43:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just, Luis Castillo is a proven commodity at this point where Logan's only throwing a handful of big leg innings.
43:12 --> 43:13 [SPEAKER_01]: And we don't know, right?
43:13 --> 43:22 [SPEAKER_01]: Logan at this point is still a relative unknown and in major league baseball and is still has to go out and he's got to prove it that he that he locks down a rotation spot.
43:23 --> 43:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And they're also other guys behind him.
43:24 --> 43:31 [SPEAKER_01]: But again, we're talking about youth here versus Luis Castillo, who you know can go out and be productive for your next gear.
43:30 --> 43:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I think ever can see that Luis Castillo's heart hit rate is up, his ground ball rate is not getting any better, he's getting less chaste, less strikeouts, quality contact is going down, like eventually this will turn into bad results.
43:46 --> 43:54 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what the biggest thing is that jumps out to me about him at this point, he doesn't really have a second pitch anymore, he has one effective pitch, his fastball is still good.
43:54 --> 43:56 [SPEAKER_00]: everything else isn't really there.
43:57 --> 44:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously back in the day when he was in Cincinnati his change up was one of the best pitches in baseball.
44:02 --> 44:10 [SPEAKER_00]: He hasn't really had his change up since he came to Seattle and in 2022 and even in a lot of 2023 it didn't matter because there were other things that worked for him.
44:10 --> 44:19 [SPEAKER_00]: The fastball was so good and in 23 is too
44:19 --> 44:24 [SPEAKER_00]: But now the last couple years, he just doesn't really have a second pitch.
44:24 --> 44:27 [SPEAKER_00]: And this year specifically, he really did not have a second pitch.
44:27 --> 44:39 [SPEAKER_00]: That was effective at all behind his fastball and I don't know if that's going to change entering 2026 as he continues to get older and he's going to enter his age 33 season where there's a lot of mileage on that arm.
44:40 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_01]: And we don't have a second pitch.
44:42 --> 44:46 [SPEAKER_01]: It gets you into trouble pretty easily because you get you get predictable fast.
44:46 --> 44:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
44:47 --> 45:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so his storyline is going to be a very very fascinating one to follow all off season and if he's still on the roster on opening day into 2026 as well Yeah, it's a great so I would say it like the Mariners aggregate great as a rotation this year I think is smack in the middle.
45:05 --> 45:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I think they get a secret
45:08 --> 45:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the overall numbers reflect that from how they pitched as a unit this year was about that.
45:13 --> 45:16 [SPEAKER_00]: They weren't the best in baseball, but they weren't there was a pack rotation.
45:16 --> 45:24 [SPEAKER_01]: They dealt with injuries, but they could, there was a lot of room for improvement that they're going to have going into next year.
45:25 --> 45:52 [SPEAKER_00]: and honestly it's not just Luis Castillo that's going to have fascinating storyline next year all five of these guys well because there's big storylines around every single one of them can Brian will repeat what he just did can Luis Castillo one find a second pitch again or will he even be here next year and with the other three Bryce George Logan can they stay healthy can Bryce and Logan get back to where they were in 24 can George Kirby finally take the big step forward that everybody's been waiting for can he find an out pitch
45:53 --> 46:02 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all five of these guys are going to have really interesting stories hanging over I'm going into the year and that are going to be really interesting to follow all into 26.
46:04 --> 46:07 [SPEAKER_01]: We have one more great episode to do after this on Wednesday.
46:07 --> 46:10 [SPEAKER_01]: We will have our bullpen grades episode.
46:10 --> 46:13 [SPEAKER_01]: Then after that, we are going to be full go for the off season.
46:13 --> 46:20 [SPEAKER_01]: It's Kyle Tucker season, while finally first episode of Kyle Tucker season off season 2526.
46:21 --> 46:27 [SPEAKER_01]: And we will be, I mean, we will be full go as the, as the rumors ramp up and
46:28 --> 46:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Over the Mariners make more moves than they did last off season.
46:32 --> 46:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's I don't think it's possible to do less.
46:35 --> 46:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it not really?
46:39 --> 46:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Well Friday, obviously be a male bag episode like every Friday is so people be sending in all their awesome questions throughout Friday shows But yeah, once we get past this Friday, which I'm sure will be loaded with offseason talk anyway just like last Friday's male bag was
46:54 --> 46:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, then we'll really get into offseason stuff.
46:56 --> 46:57 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll be profile in different guys.
46:57 --> 47:01 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll be highlighting different ideas, both from us and from you guys.
47:01 --> 47:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's about that time, man.
47:04 --> 47:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Get ready, K-Tuck.
47:08 --> 47:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go.
47:10 --> 47:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm ready.
47:11 --> 47:13 [SPEAKER_00]: There's going to be a lot of K-Tuck posting this offseason.
47:13 --> 47:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I got to tell you a lot of K-Tuck posting, especially on social.
47:17 --> 47:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think he saw the first one?
47:20 --> 47:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope so.
47:21 --> 47:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I bet you.
47:24 --> 47:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm not going to bet you.
47:26 --> 47:32 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say there's a chance either he has seen something we posted about him or somebody that represents him has.
47:34 --> 47:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
47:34 --> 47:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Just need to plant the idea.
47:36 --> 47:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, we've put it out there so many times.
47:39 --> 47:41 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like at some point it's crossed somebody's desk.
47:41 --> 47:47 [SPEAKER_00]: But hey, we'll have an offseason to have even more get across their mind and across their table.
47:47 --> 47:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Say it and come to Seattle.
47:49 --> 47:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember those old show, hey, chance come to Seattle.
47:51 --> 47:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Just do that for K-Tuck.
47:53 --> 47:53 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll do.
47:55 --> 47:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
47:55 --> 47:55 [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
47:56 --> 47:58 [SPEAKER_00]: That just about wraps up this edition of the Marine Lair podcast.
47:58 --> 47:59 [SPEAKER_00]: You guys know the drill.
47:59 --> 48:03 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to listen to the full form podcast, you can do so wherever you get your audio pods.
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48:30 --> 48:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Off-season's here, it's perfect hoodie season, why not go over and get yourself some Marine Lairpot merch, we love seeing people wear throughout the city, so again, that's over our website and then you can check us out all on social media at Marine Lairpot.
48:43 --> 48:48 [SPEAKER_00]: That's TJ, I'm Lyle, it's always weird thank you guys for tuning in, we'll talk to you soon.