Lyle and TJ discuss a pair of scenarios in which the Diamondbacks will have to lower the price on Ketel Marte (2:30). They then react to the early HOF voting returning, which show Felix Hernandez gaining voters in his second year on the ballot (26:12).
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00:00 --> 00:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to episode number 343 of the Marine Lair podcast is the price on Katel Marta going down.
00:06 --> 00:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Well there might be a situation brewing in Arizona that could benefit the Mariners.
00:09 --> 00:10 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about it.
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00:36 --> 00:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get it rolling.
00:51 --> 00:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Lair podcast part of the just baseball podcast network.
00:56 --> 01:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Recording here on Sunday evening December 28th, are you getting antsy while without there being many moves happening with just were sitting and waiting and waiting and waiting.
01:11 --> 01:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, I'm getting a little antsy.
01:13 --> 01:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm getting a little antsy, and I'd say there's two reasons.
01:16 --> 01:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Number one, doesn't not just feel like we're spinning around in a revolving door at a hotel, because all we're doing is circling through, could tell Marta, Brendan Donovan, Brendan Donovan, could tell Marta, Donovan, Marta, it's just, it's nonstop.
01:31 --> 01:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a revolving door at a hotel that you never stop running around through.
01:35 --> 01:47 [SPEAKER_01]: and that's what all the teams are doing too because these are the two guys essentially holding up the rest of the offseason in field market like it's the combination of on the trade market.
01:48 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I think for the most part it's could tell Marta holding things up because teams want to see how that shakes out.
01:53 --> 01:57 [SPEAKER_01]: before they decide how aggressively they want to go after Brennan Donovan.
01:57 --> 02:09 [SPEAKER_01]: And then in the free agent market, it's most likely Alex pregnant and Boba Shet for what teams that are trying to seriously upgrade their infield or looking at and seeing what happens there before deciding how they're going to go about.
02:10 --> 02:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So everyone just kind of in a standstill and we're just
02:14 --> 02:14 [SPEAKER_01]: We're waiting.
02:15 --> 02:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we're trying to will one of these moves to happen so we can close the door on the soft season and start previewing the upcoming season, but the Mariners said and Ryan Davis put it out in the Seattle Times here on Sunday, an article and saying, they view this offseason right now is incomplete.
02:31 --> 02:32 [SPEAKER_01]: They still see a move happening.
02:33 --> 02:35 [SPEAKER_01]: We're just waiting for that move to happen.
02:37 --> 02:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's where the second part of me is getting Nancy because the thought of swinging and missing on both of these guys.
02:44 --> 02:48 [SPEAKER_00]: may lead to them just signing another platoon bat.
02:49 --> 02:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not going to view that as a great off season.
02:51 --> 02:52 [SPEAKER_00]: If that's what it ends up in.
02:53 --> 02:55 [SPEAKER_00]: If signing Josh Nailer was your biggest move, that's great.
02:56 --> 03:07 [SPEAKER_00]: But if the rest of it was two platoon bats, a backup catcher, and an unproven reliever, for a team that was just eight outs from the world series, that doesn't inspire the world's greatest confidence into your fan base.
03:08 --> 03:10 [SPEAKER_01]: I was asking you this question before we started recording.
03:10 --> 03:12 [SPEAKER_01]: Where would you even platoon?
03:14 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_01]: I got him out like just go around the roster.
03:16 --> 03:22 [SPEAKER_01]: You have your right field platoon or dh platoon, however you want to view it with Rob Raff Snyder and Dom Kinzone who is not platooning.
03:23 --> 03:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Randy's not platooning.
03:25 --> 03:30 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't imagine your third baseman are platooning like maybe that could be the one spot.
03:31 --> 03:33 [SPEAKER_01]: JP's not platooning at short.
03:33 --> 03:40 [SPEAKER_01]: You have a wealth of available young guys to play second base that hit on both sides of the plate.
03:41 --> 04:06 [SPEAKER_00]: uh... first base is not pletuning and obviously cow's not pletuning the two spots are second and third base and again that's what they're trying to do right now is get a second baseman but if they miss on all the second baseman and eco-horror doesn't get traded then you're right they're gonna have to go with internal options because there's not going to be a plethora of other second baseman out there on the market but one spot
04:06 --> 04:18 [SPEAKER_00]: feels like maybe third base, if Gino's gonna flip between some sort of DH slash third base role if they were to sign them, but even the refsider's signing complicates Gino's return like we talked about.
04:18 --> 04:26 [SPEAKER_01]: But a platoon of third base doesn't even make sense if say Colt Emerson doesn't make the opening day roster for the Mariners and Ayohania Swars isn't the option.
04:27 --> 04:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Then you need to find a left-handed platoon third baseman.
04:32 --> 04:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
04:33 --> 04:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Who?
04:34 --> 04:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is that really cost-efficient for when you're going to have a post?
04:40 --> 04:40 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I mean.
04:41 --> 04:44 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that really that cost-efficient when you're going to have Cole Tamerson up?
04:44 --> 04:46 [SPEAKER_00]: What you believe is in the next couple of months anyway?
04:47 --> 04:58 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't really see it as being that beneficial especially because on top of all that Cole Tamerson was great against left-handed pitching last year That's a guy where when he comes up they may try to ease him into things.
04:59 --> 05:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how often they'll
05:01 --> 05:24 [SPEAKER_00]: hit him against lefties early on because maybe they'll want to just try to give him some soft landing and major league baseball that being said cold Emerson hit left handed pitching very well last year and if that continues that's the guy that should be playing in the line up every day no matter which side it's is on the mound right left anything I mean the platoon options that's the base are like uh yohan mankinda
05:25 --> 05:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Nope.
05:26 --> 05:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no.
05:26 --> 05:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I, I, I've, I've zero interest in you, I'm in caught up after that dude.
05:30 --> 05:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, uh, we're going down the options.
05:34 --> 05:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Willie Castro hit Sleft handed right?
05:37 --> 05:38 [SPEAKER_01]: No, he's already.
05:38 --> 05:40 [SPEAKER_01]: OK, so note that wouldn't work.
05:41 --> 05:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, could this gracious Adam Frazier, not really a third baseman?
05:46 --> 05:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, to the options.
05:49 --> 05:54 [SPEAKER_01]: The infield options that could potentially play third base that hit left-handed are pretty much zero.
05:55 --> 05:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, check that.
05:56 --> 05:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Willie Castro's a switchheader.
05:57 --> 05:58 [SPEAKER_00]: So we were OK.
05:59 --> 06:09 [SPEAKER_01]: in theory that could work, but do you want to sign Willie Castro to for five to ten million dollars when you won't need his services and theory when Colt Emerson's ready?
06:10 --> 06:11 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't.
06:11 --> 06:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And in this case, wheeled rather than the Mariners go seriously upgrading, get a permanent third basement and deal with Colt Emerson's situation later if you want to add to third base because that's actually upgrading the position instead of being like, well, we can supplement
06:29 --> 06:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and by upgrade you mean go side Alex Braggman, but that's not gonna happen and that is part of what ties into our main topic of this podcast
06:38 --> 06:41 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a situation that sort of popped up.
06:42 --> 06:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it'd been brewing a lot of this offseason, but on Friday, there are a couple different radio hosts that Arizona sports that we're talking about, the ideas of Alex Braggman and Catel Marte, and how their situation affects the Diamondbacks.
06:54 --> 07:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's a brief version that we already put out on our social media channels, but I'll bring up here on the podcast again.
07:00 --> 07:04 [SPEAKER_01]: So Dan Bickley, who's a host on Arizona sports,
07:04 --> 07:21 [SPEAKER_01]: was saying on his show that he believes that Alxpregman wants to be an Arizona Diamondback because Alxpregman, like Corbin Burns, really likes the idea of living in Arizona year-round so he can train and he doesn't have to move multiple places in the off season.
07:23 --> 07:31 [SPEAKER_01]: So he said, he believed that Alex Braggman would be willing to take a discounted price to play for the Arizona Diamondbacks like Corbin Bernstid last season.
07:31 --> 07:39 [SPEAKER_01]: The problem for the Diamondbacks is, for them to be able to sign Alex Braggman, they would have to trade Katelmarte away.
07:40 --> 07:46 [SPEAKER_01]: That would, in theory, give the Diamondbacks less leverage if they really like what they're getting in Alex Braggman.
07:48 --> 07:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Therefore, they would have to sell Katea, Katea at a lower price because teams would know they want to get rid of them because they really want Alex Breggman.
07:54 --> 08:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And the way it sounds through Dambically, and then John Gibbadoro, who hosts the afternoon show there, who's pretty plugged in with the Diamondbacks, neither them really seem to believe that the Diamondbacks could afford to pay Alex Breggman and Katea more today on the same team.
08:12 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So therefore that leaves the DOM of actual the potential conundrum.
08:15 --> 08:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Either you keep Catell Marta and don't sign Alex pregnant at a discounted rate, or you sign Alex pregnant and you trade Catell Marta away for potentially less because you lose your leverage.
08:26 --> 08:28 [SPEAKER_01]: How much are you seen into this situation?
08:29 --> 08:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, first off, if I was a Diamondbacks fan, I'd be pissed.
08:32 --> 08:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say, keep Braggman, or sorry, keep Marta and Sign Braggman, because then they've got a real contender.
08:37 --> 08:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Not in the NL West to overtake the Dodgers, but to make the playoffs, to be a wildcard team, maybe a 90 plus win wildcard team, maybe more like 90, they don't have a ton of pitching, but they'd be a competitor.
08:48 --> 08:54 [SPEAKER_01]: They would be, the Diamondbacks problem is they are gonna start the season with $60 million of payroll on the injured list.
08:55 --> 08:56 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's tough.
08:57 --> 08:59 [SPEAKER_01]: That's 25% of their payroll from my season.
09:02 --> 09:05 [SPEAKER_00]: Wouldn't that be all the more reason to want to sign Braggman and keep Marta.
09:05 --> 09:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you upgrade your roster as the year goes on with reinforcements.
09:09 --> 09:11 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a long time to when those guys get back.
09:11 --> 09:12 [SPEAKER_01]: They're all those guys.
09:12 --> 09:14 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's most of it as Corbin Burns.
09:15 --> 09:17 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll get back in the second half of the season.
09:17 --> 09:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a long time.
09:18 --> 09:22 [SPEAKER_01]: You can lose yourself a playoff spot in those first three four months.
09:23 --> 09:53 [SPEAKER_00]: 100% what do we say and what do people around baseball say you can't win a division in April but you can lose it so if you're the downbacks that is possible you could just fall into the seller anyway for the mariner sense of this yeah it would make me think if i were the mariner's that they've got a chance to get a little bit of their leverage back and all of the twenty eight teams that could be interested in can tell marte twenty nine teams could have a chance to get some leverage back because if this is true and what's being said publicly ends up being
09:53 --> 10:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Then, in Alex Breggman's science with the Diamondbacks, teams are going to know they're going to have to in some way or another get rid of Catel Marta's contract.
10:02 --> 10:06 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of this hinges on the interest of Alex Breggman playing elsewhere, though, as well.
10:07 --> 10:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Because here's another question I have to determine Vax have to trade Catel Marta first before they put ink to paper with Breggman or can Breggman sign first and then they trade Catel Marta.
10:17 --> 10:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Because there's a situation where the Diamondback still have some trade leverage, if Alex Regmin is not signed yet.
10:24 --> 10:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Because there still have just Catal Marte and you can tell teams, oh, well, you still want them clearly, so you should pay our price on this.
10:32 --> 10:40 [SPEAKER_01]: Meanwhile, if they sign Alex Regmin and all the other teams are like, look, we know you physically can't afford to play, but pay both of these players, and you don't want to pay both of these players.
10:41 --> 10:45 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you got to trade them, and therefore a price comes down.
10:46 --> 10:47 [SPEAKER_00]: What if?
10:49 --> 10:55 [SPEAKER_00]: could tell God traded first, and then the Diamondbacks overplayed their, overplayed their hand and bring them inside somewhere else.
10:55 --> 10:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Then they burned.
10:56 --> 10:58 [SPEAKER_01]: And then they, then they do get burned.
10:58 --> 11:16 [SPEAKER_01]: And that honestly might be the most likely scenario at this point, because there's another storyline that comes up with Catel Marta's negotiation or the Mariners negotiation with the Diamondbacks about Catel Marta is that Catel is coming up on a certain
11:16 --> 11:18 [SPEAKER_01]: his trade value.
11:18 --> 11:26 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a rule, I guess technically it's a rule written in the CBA for the players.
11:26 --> 11:38 [SPEAKER_01]: That once a player achieves 10 years of service time and 5 consecutive seasons with one team, they have this thing called 10 and 5 rights, where they can block a trade to any team they want to.
11:40 --> 11:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Think about that, that severely impacts the ability to trade a
11:47 --> 11:56 [SPEAKER_01]: So, Catell could pick and choose exactly where he wants to play and if he doesn't want to go anywhere, then he can't be traded whether or not the Diamondbacks want to or not.
11:57 --> 12:03 [SPEAKER_01]: On the 10th day of the 2026 season, Catell Marte achieves 10 and 5 rides.
12:04 --> 12:12 [SPEAKER_01]: The Diamondbacks, if they want maximum return with a true bidding war for Catell Marte, they're going to need to trade him this off season.
12:12 --> 12:38 [SPEAKER_00]: otherwise they're not going to get the return they want and the return they're set on right now starts with a major league starting pitcher which is i'm sure why the mariners are not have not executed a trade yet because i'm sure the mariners have absolutely no interest to trade out of the rotation but that's what the dynamics are asking for so the mariners are serious about this they're currently just an impasse isn't every other team in an impasse too i would think
12:40 --> 12:42 [SPEAKER_00]: because most teams don't want to trade big league starting pitching.
12:42 --> 12:46 [SPEAKER_00]: It is crazy how trades have formulated over time and evolved over time.
12:46 --> 12:53 [SPEAKER_00]: Where, I feel like 20, 30 years ago, to get a player like to tell Marte, of course you were gonna have to give up legitimate big league talent.
12:53 --> 13:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, even for a guy that's been a top 10 hitter in the sport two years in a row, teams are saying, yeah, his value is prospects.
13:01 --> 13:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Good prospects for prospects.
13:04 --> 13:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Teams just have so much more trust in their development nowadays.
13:07 --> 13:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the scouting is so much better.
13:09 --> 13:12 [SPEAKER_01]: You have a lot more confidence in your prof and your prospects.
13:12 --> 13:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Or it's like, okay, if we have to hang on to these players, I still think we're going to be pretty good.
13:17 --> 13:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Because we think these players are all really good.
13:21 --> 13:29 [SPEAKER_01]: At what point would you, would you change your mind on what your price would be for Catel Marta in this situation?
13:29 --> 13:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Because for the Mariners, like this does open up a window for you where you and all the other teams know that the Diamondbacks are kind of up against the wall in this.
13:39 --> 13:42 [SPEAKER_01]: On two different fronts, however much you believe the Alex Braggman rumors.
13:42 --> 13:51 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's either you could sign Alex Braggman or you risk holding on to Katelmarté and you can't trade him for as much valuable assets as you want.
13:52 --> 13:57 [SPEAKER_01]: And you can't repair your rotation, which is a big reason they're considering floating him in the first place.
13:59 --> 14:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if the Mariners do budge.
14:02 --> 14:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if they trade their asking price in terms of the return they give up for Catelmarte.
14:07 --> 14:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think the Mariners themselves would be willing to part with big league starting pitching for him.
14:13 --> 14:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't.
14:14 --> 14:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And part of that's the age.
14:16 --> 14:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Part of it's the eventual defense.
14:19 --> 14:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Part of it's the clubhouse stuff.
14:21 --> 14:23 [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't see the Mariners.
14:23 --> 14:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Even though the bang for the buck on that contract is about as good as any contract and baseball,
14:29 --> 14:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't see the mariners themselves saying yes to training one of their starting pictures away.
14:35 --> 14:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Even if other people would say they'd be willing to sacrifice it, seeing their front office say yes to it feels like a long shot.
14:44 --> 14:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Is there a scenario where you see them saying yes to it?
14:50 --> 14:52 [SPEAKER_00]: we've talked about it at points this offseason.
14:52 --> 14:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it would have to do with if they are confident that George Kirby will not sign the extension long term.
14:58 --> 15:09 [SPEAKER_00]: And if they believe that, then when you talk about trading back for, or trying to get your highest possible value on starting pitcher, who you don't think is going to stay long term.
15:09 --> 15:11 [SPEAKER_00]: that's where the consideration would go.
15:12 --> 15:15 [SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like he's the one that would make sense.
15:15 --> 15:16 [SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise, I don't really see it.
15:17 --> 15:20 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't see the Mariners doing it for either of Miller or Wu, obviously Wu.
15:21 --> 15:23 [SPEAKER_00]: The Diamondbacks wouldn't do it for Luis Castillo.
15:24 --> 15:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And then again, whether Logan Gilbert signs that extension or not,
15:28 --> 15:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think the Mariners have any intention to trade them this winter.
15:31 --> 15:32 [SPEAKER_00]: That's for sure.
15:32 --> 15:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure they want to still get an extension done with them.
15:34 --> 15:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's too good.
15:36 --> 15:47 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't you don't really get better if you trade for Katelmarte, but give up Logan Gilbert because you cripple something that was your strength by trading one of the two best starters in that rotation.
15:48 --> 15:54 [SPEAKER_01]: Could you do a scenario where you trade a lot of the value in this package comes from
15:54 --> 16:14 [SPEAKER_01]: You give the Diamondbacks to starting pitchers where you trade Kirby and Castile and get Katelmarte back, this would be tough because then you need to fill two spots in your rotation but you would essentially wash it salary wise in fact you'd gain salary back and we'd give you some more flexibility to go do other things.
16:14 --> 16:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you still giving up top end prospects in addition to those two?
16:18 --> 16:19 [SPEAKER_01]: You might have to give up one.
16:20 --> 16:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think if you're the Diamond Vexer eating that sort of money or getting too much value with a Louis Castillo.
16:29 --> 16:34 [SPEAKER_00]: So you think you'd have to go up those two and then somebody toward the top end of your farm system also?
16:34 --> 16:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's say those two in Jorangelo.
16:37 --> 16:37 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a lot.
16:38 --> 16:38 [SPEAKER_01]: It is.
16:39 --> 16:41 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think the Mariners do that to be honest.
16:42 --> 16:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
16:43 --> 16:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think the Mariners are better if they do that?
16:45 --> 16:46 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't really think so.
16:47 --> 17:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so either, especially because if you're going to trade those two big league starting pitchers, and they would already be a lot to begin with to say we're going to trade two big league arms out of our rotation for Catelmartei, a guy who we've documented has concerns.
17:01 --> 17:07 [SPEAKER_00]: If they were going to do that, don't you think they want all the high-end prospect depth they possibly have with pitchers?
17:07 --> 17:11 [SPEAKER_00]: So to add on gerangelo, yeah, I don't think so.
17:11 --> 17:15 [SPEAKER_01]: and derangelo would be a prime candidate to fill one of those spots this season whenever he's ready.
17:16 --> 17:17 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
17:18 --> 17:21 [SPEAKER_01]: This could tell situation is, I mean, it's fascinating.
17:21 --> 17:22 [SPEAKER_01]: There's...
17:22 --> 17:24 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of factors going on here.
17:24 --> 17:29 [SPEAKER_01]: And ultimately, he's going to come down to whether or not the Diamondbacks are going to lower that price for him.
17:30 --> 17:35 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the biggest game of chicken I think I've seen between one team and everyone else.
17:35 --> 17:43 [SPEAKER_01]: When it comes to trading a player, because there are things working against the Diamondbacks, there are things working against the other teams when it comes to the need to trade for him.
17:43 --> 17:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Players like you tell just aren't available that often.
17:45 --> 17:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I would encourage everybody to listen to what you said and really think long and hard about the whole ten and five service rights.
17:52 --> 17:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Because that's a story that hasn't been talked about a ton.
17:55 --> 18:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Ken Rosenthal wrote about it a little bit, but other than that, it has not been talked about a ton, but it's real.
18:00 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Because with TJ highlighted is absolutely right, that if the Diamondbacks do not trade him this off season, they are going to lose significant leverage.
18:09 --> 18:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Because at that point, if they want to trade could tell somewhere, he can block it anywhere he wants.
18:15 --> 18:27 [SPEAKER_00]: It would essentially be, if could tell is a premier destination that he'd be okay getting traded to after that service time hits, he could say, trade me there to that exact spot, otherwise I'm going nowhere, and you guys are stuck with me.
18:28 --> 18:32 [SPEAKER_01]: And therefore, that team knows that the only, they're the only team bidding for them.
18:32 --> 18:35 [SPEAKER_01]: So they could say, all right, we'll give you our number 15 prospect.
18:36 --> 18:36 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's it.
18:36 --> 18:37 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll eat half the money.
18:39 --> 18:41 [SPEAKER_00]: It would probably be more than that that they'd give up.
18:41 --> 18:45 [SPEAKER_00]: But you're right, then, if, yeah, because then the directs just wouldn't do it.
18:46 --> 18:52 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you're, God forbid, the Dodgers, and they only want to give up a couple of prospects for them.
18:53 --> 19:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that might be it and that's a whole lot different than getting George Kirby and Kate Anderson way different.
19:01 --> 19:04 [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll we'll see what that I was kind of curious about this.
19:05 --> 19:09 [SPEAKER_01]: If the mariner's trade for could tell marte, he does not achieve.
19:09 --> 19:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, he I guess I don't know exactly how it works like technically he'd be ten and five, but.
19:15 --> 19:25 [SPEAKER_01]: He would not have that power with the Mariners because the ten and five rights occur occur if you've been So you're in the league ten years in the last five years.
19:25 --> 19:31 [SPEAKER_01]: You're with the same team if he gets traded to the Mariners He will not have been on the same team the last five years
19:31 --> 19:40 [SPEAKER_01]: So once that tenth day of the season hits, and he gets his tenth full year of service time, he could not block a trade anywhere from the Mariners.
19:40 --> 19:42 [SPEAKER_01]: So the Mariners would keep his leverage.
19:43 --> 19:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Now he would be older, and he would still be owed all this money, and perhaps more would come out about Katelmarte in the situation.
19:48 --> 19:52 [SPEAKER_01]: But the Mariners would not be in the same predicament the Diamondbacks are in.
19:53 --> 20:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Further elaborate on the five years for people who are sitting there
20:00 --> 20:02 [SPEAKER_01]: It's five years minimum.
20:02 --> 20:04 [SPEAKER_01]: It can go as much as you want.
20:04 --> 20:11 [SPEAKER_01]: The number that we're focusing on right now is Katelmarté achieving 10 full years of MLB service time.
20:11 --> 20:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I've yet to find somewhere that does it like exactly of how much service time is accrued because if you go look on fan graphs, for example, it says that Catell Marte has played 9 seasons in Major League Baseball, which doesn't equate to 10 days at the start of the season, him achieving his 10 years of service time, but Ken Rose and Thal on his article said on the 10th day of the season, Catell will achieve that, that 10th year of service time.
20:36 --> 20:40 [SPEAKER_01]: If you will come
20:40 --> 20:49 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not the easiest to track, it goes down to an exact game calculator, or days active on the roster of how much service time you're accruing.
20:49 --> 20:56 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, I was more saying for people asking, hasn't Ketel Marte been with the Diamondbacks for more than five years, he has.
20:56 --> 21:17 [SPEAKER_01]: he has but it's a minimum five years yeah and to be able to block the trade you need to stay on the diamond backs so that you have to if he's going to the diamond backs you're going to decide to trade him like the question with the players they're going to trade her have they been in majorly baseball for ten years and have they spent the last five years on this team five full years on this team
21:18 --> 21:21 [SPEAKER_01]: After the tenth day of the season that's upcoming year, the answer to that question would be yes.
21:22 --> 21:24 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right, exactly.
21:24 --> 21:25 [SPEAKER_01]: At least five years.
21:26 --> 21:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
21:26 --> 21:30 [SPEAKER_01]: That's this, and no one here or no, I believe, has that what the Cardinals?
21:30 --> 21:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Does he have that what the Cardinals?
21:32 --> 21:35 [SPEAKER_00]: While you're looking that up, yeah, could tell Marte hasn't hit his ten years yet.
21:35 --> 21:41 [SPEAKER_00]: He's got the five years part, because he's been with the Diamondbacks for that many years, and more, but he's not a ten years of service time yet.
21:41 --> 21:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I believe no one or not besides the fact he hasn't no trade clause in his contract has ten and five rights because he has been in the league for over ten seasons and he's been with the Cardinals for the last five full seasons.
21:56 --> 21:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that checks out.
21:58 --> 22:03 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's another guy where, yeah, it's hard to trade his contract because he gets the dictate where he wants to go or doesn't want to go.
22:04 --> 22:14 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, it's different for somebody like Jorge Polanco who I believe has his 10 years of service time, but doesn't have 10 and five rights because he hasn't spend the last five years on a team.
22:14 --> 22:18 [SPEAKER_01]: If he played the last two seasons on the twins, I think you would have 10 and five rights.
22:19 --> 22:21 [SPEAKER_01]: If I remember his service clock correctly.
22:21 --> 22:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Donovan Solano is another example.
22:23 --> 22:32 [SPEAKER_01]: 10 years exactly in major league baseball, but no 10 and five rights because he hasn't played five consecutive years on that team before they decide to trade him.
22:32 --> 22:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's the situation, the the Diamondbacks are in right now and it complicates a little bit for them and they could still get a really good all-back for Katomar take as he's a really good player, but teams know they're backed up against the wall a little bit.
22:47 --> 22:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I was even sitting here trying to think about, are there any names were not thinking of that the Mariners could be zoning in on.
22:54 --> 22:57 [SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like we've highlighted everybody that could be out there.
22:58 --> 23:03 [SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about Kattel, we've talked about Daughton and we've talked about Horner, we've talked about guys that are already off the board.
23:04 --> 23:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like this is it.
23:06 --> 23:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't feel like there's that many people were missing right now.
23:09 --> 23:13 [SPEAKER_01]: The problem right now that the Mariners are facing is that,
23:14 --> 23:34 [SPEAKER_01]: we've we've highlighted the top guys and then after that the drop off is significant again can I just redo some of these free agent infielders that are of that are available because the mayor's would be going after infielders most likely since they signed a platoon bat in the outfield so if they were to sign as Ryan Davis wrote about today on Sunday a more marginal free agent
23:34 --> 23:40 [SPEAKER_01]: The options are, excuse me, you start at the top of the Alex Braggman and Cody Belinger in terms of available guys.
23:40 --> 23:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, so Cody said outfielder, let's make, I guess they qualify Cody as an infielder still, even though he's listed as a centerfielder here.
23:47 --> 23:49 [SPEAKER_01]: After that, the next.
23:49 --> 23:53 [SPEAKER_01]: Best options are Reese Hoskins, not really sure where you play him.
23:54 --> 23:57 [SPEAKER_01]: Luis Horizon, again, not really sure where you play him.
23:57 --> 24:06 [SPEAKER_01]: You're on Mancada, Paul Goldsmith, Nathaniel Lo, Gino, Luis Renjifo, Isaiah Connor Falejo, Willie Castro, Justin Turner.
24:06 --> 24:15 [SPEAKER_01]: The drop-off is immense between Donovan, Kattel, Boba Shatt, Alex Breigman, and everyone else.
24:17 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_00]: There it is.
24:18 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to.
24:18 --> 24:19 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk about IKF.
24:19 --> 24:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to talk about IKF?
24:21 --> 24:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you what I think about IKF.
24:23 --> 24:26 [SPEAKER_01]: Dude was a pain in the ass in the ALCS.
24:26 --> 24:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Pain in the ass.
24:29 --> 24:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what is WRC plus with started with.
24:32 --> 24:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I am going to guess a seven.
24:34 --> 24:34 [SPEAKER_01]: But let's see.
24:34 --> 24:35 [SPEAKER_01]: It was well.
24:36 --> 24:37 [SPEAKER_00]: He was not a good hitter this year.
24:38 --> 24:39 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a reason he ended up on the blue chase.
24:40 --> 24:42 [SPEAKER_00]: His OPS plus, which I'm sure is similar enough.
24:42 --> 24:44 [SPEAKER_00]: 76.
24:46 --> 24:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So like is that is is that really worth upgrading like that's Ben Williams and except more expensive?
24:52 --> 25:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, this is why if they don't execute one of these trades for Kattel or Donovan or Nico Horner if you want to throw him into is gonna make their off season pretty disappointing.
25:04 --> 25:11 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a couple of niche options that people have thrown at trades like Bryson in our last mail bag or two mailbox.
25:11 --> 25:11 [SPEAKER_01]: You gotta care, remember.
25:11 --> 25:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Throughout the idea of David Fry, like David Fry, I could buy a little bit more on a trade than any of some of these free agents, but I mean, we're just like we're splitting here.
25:21 --> 25:29 [SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, Demo is a free agent dog, Mariners need a utility and fielder, play second base, third base and a little bit of outfield.
25:30 --> 25:31 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't think so.
25:32 --> 25:32 [SPEAKER_01]: I really don't.
25:33 --> 25:34 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't, you don't think so.
25:34 --> 25:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, tie France is a free agent, too.
25:37 --> 25:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Love tie, but where would he play?
25:39 --> 25:44 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's another really good question that I don't know the answer, too.
25:44 --> 25:48 [SPEAKER_01]: But there's, I mean, this free agent list is just, it's not good.
25:48 --> 25:49 [SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's not.
25:49 --> 25:56 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, if their last move is to trade for David Fry, it's going to be a disappointing off season.
25:56 --> 25:57 [SPEAKER_00]: That's two platoon bats.
25:58 --> 26:04 [SPEAKER_00]: a backup catcher and an unproven reliever in terms of guys you guys you have added to the roster.
26:04 --> 26:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I know they resign Josh Nailer, but talent you are adding to last year's roster, that's what you got.
26:09 --> 26:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Two-platoon bats, a backup catcher and an unproven reliever.
26:13 --> 26:17 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so we'll see, hopefully these moves happen in the next couple of weeks.
26:18 --> 26:26 [SPEAKER_01]: If there's one more thing I wanted to mention here on this podcast, so I saw this today and I didn't realize it, but they are starting to collect Hall of Fame votes.
26:26 --> 26:29 [SPEAKER_01]: We might spend and you mentioned this to you.
26:29 --> 26:44 [SPEAKER_01]: We might spend more time on this in a full episode We get some more votes in but I will note Felix Hernandez through 10% of vote gathering has 60% of the votes Have you pretty cool good for Felix?
26:44 --> 26:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I never even just see him get a bump from 30% is great.
26:47 --> 26:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It's awesome.
26:49 --> 26:50 [SPEAKER_00]: I Never really thought
26:52 --> 26:56 [SPEAKER_00]: that he quite had enough of a career to get into Cooper's town.
26:56 --> 27:03 [SPEAKER_00]: But you know what, man, with the way the balance shaking out this year, with what's a pretty weak ballot, there's no slam dunk first ballot guys this year.
27:03 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_00]: It's open and things up a little bit and maybe voters are spending a little more time thinking about Felix and thinking about who he was in the prime of his career and saying, yeah, this guy is prime was a Hall of Fame pitcher and I'm going to give him my vote.
27:16 --> 27:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think he's going to get
27:21 --> 27:28 [SPEAKER_00]: And if he got a 20% uptick from the first year on year two on the ballot, it's a pretty positive sign.
27:28 --> 27:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember Edgar was nowhere near this rate early on.
27:30 --> 27:32 [SPEAKER_00]: It took him a long time early on.
27:32 --> 27:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean halfway through he wasn't doing good at all.
27:37 --> 27:40 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, he was a war first first time through.
27:40 --> 27:40 [SPEAKER_00]: He was at what 20%.
27:41 --> 27:48 [SPEAKER_01]: It was not it took a serious It took a serious campaign to get Edgar in the Hall of Fame as everyone remembers.
27:48 --> 27:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it takes a serious campaign for Felix to get in the Hall of Fame and
27:52 --> 28:04 [SPEAKER_01]: the difference between the two is, I think Edgar, I think Edgar was literally just overlooked because he's not his name is not David Ortiz, any poiden Seattle, but the dude had a hall of fame resume.
28:04 --> 28:17 [SPEAKER_01]: You can pretty easily poke holes and feel his hall of fame resume, but you can also make the case that he is a hall of fameer based off of his peak and the kind of picture he was when he was at his best.
28:17 --> 28:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he didn't age great, but his prime was great.
28:19 --> 28:24 [SPEAKER_00]: If he had just won that second Si-Hung, it would be so much better case.
28:25 --> 28:39 [SPEAKER_00]: It would do so much more because two Si-Hungs usually gets guys in, which is why it's going to be fascinating when Blake's now eventually retires, because he doesn't feel like he's had a Hall of Fame career, a very good career.
28:39 --> 28:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's doesn't mean it because he just doesn't throw enough.
28:43 --> 28:45 [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't throw that much But he's got two.
28:45 --> 28:48 [SPEAKER_01]: He's got two sayungs That he has a very similar case.
28:48 --> 28:54 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like with a little more longevity to Tim Lensicum Yeah, I could see that.
28:55 --> 29:00 [SPEAKER_01]: I Just feel like feel like if he had that second sayon he compares a little bit more to Johann Santana
29:01 --> 29:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Little bit, I think their career wars were similar enough.
29:03 --> 29:05 [SPEAKER_00]: So I could see that a little bit.
29:05 --> 29:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I will say, Lindsey comes career and prime was shorter than Blake Snells.
29:09 --> 29:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Like Blake Snell has had some years where he's been injured and he hasn't been quite as effective.
29:13 --> 29:17 [SPEAKER_00]: But then he's had years in his career, even as he's aged on, that have been really, really good.
29:18 --> 29:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Including his second Saigon, including, well, he didn't throw that much with the Dodgers this year because he was hurt.
29:22 --> 29:29 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, regardless, Snell's a little different than Lindsey come, but Felix and Yohan, I can see some comparisons.
29:30 --> 29:31 [SPEAKER_01]: gives you a nice boom bump.
29:31 --> 29:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you that because you list off all the players in majorly history that have won two sirens.
29:36 --> 29:42 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a very small batch of them that won't get in the Hall of Fame because it's lint succumb.
29:43 --> 29:46 [SPEAKER_01]: You'll haunt if I remember this creature because I don't have the Hall of Fame pulled up.
29:46 --> 29:48 [SPEAKER_01]: You'll haunt did not get in the Hall of Fame day.
29:48 --> 29:50 [SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, he was he was probably a Hall of Famer.
29:51 --> 29:53 [SPEAKER_01]: He was almost certainly a Hall of Famer.
29:53 --> 30:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Another guy who sort of had a whole of fame peak, but definitely is not going to pitch long enough to get in the whole of fame, Corey Clubber, two Syungs, but nowhere near the longevity required to get in.
30:04 --> 30:04 [SPEAKER_00]: No.
30:04 --> 30:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so.
30:06 --> 30:11 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, otherwise there's, I mean, Roger Monson's 1117, but he's not going to get in.
30:11 --> 30:15 [SPEAKER_01]: No, because he had some, some, some supplemental help.
30:15 --> 30:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
30:16 --> 30:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I think he was seven.
30:17 --> 30:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a lot.
30:18 --> 30:19 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
30:19 --> 30:19 [SPEAKER_01]: That sounds right.
30:20 --> 30:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:22 --> 30:24 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like it's a 20% increase this year.
30:24 --> 30:25 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a pretty good sign.
30:25 --> 30:25 [SPEAKER_00]: That'd be pretty cool.
30:25 --> 30:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if he just gets like a 10%.
30:27 --> 30:31 [SPEAKER_01]: He needs to be progressing upwards.
30:32 --> 30:39 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I just never thought he would quite get this level of oats, but if in two years he's already at the 50% threshold or even 40 to 45%.
30:40 --> 30:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you said.
30:42 --> 30:44 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good trend, especially with eight years to go.
30:46 --> 30:48 [SPEAKER_01]: So that was literally the only other Mariners news I saw today.
30:48 --> 30:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's it.
30:50 --> 30:51 [SPEAKER_00]: We're just waiting people.
30:51 --> 30:52 [SPEAKER_00]: We're waiting like everybody else.
30:52 --> 30:54 [SPEAKER_00]: When is this last move going to happen?
30:54 --> 30:55 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait for spring training.
30:56 --> 30:57 [SPEAKER_01]: New stories every day.
30:57 --> 31:01 [SPEAKER_01]: New videos of Luis Rius throwing across the diamond.
31:02 --> 31:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was that was real great.
31:04 --> 31:05 [SPEAKER_00]: We saw that.
31:05 --> 31:10 [SPEAKER_01]: That's going to go down in the Marine Lair pod cast like video archive Hall fame.
31:11 --> 31:13 [SPEAKER_00]: where he, like, short armed it and then spiked it.
31:15 --> 31:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't think we're going to have to watch Luis Arias and spring training this year.
31:23 --> 31:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
31:23 --> 31:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
31:24 --> 31:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe Cole Tamerson instead.
31:27 --> 31:30 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, I think that just about wraps up this edition of the Marine Lair podcast.
31:30 --> 31:31 [SPEAKER_00]: You guys know the drill.
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32:03 --> 32:04 [SPEAKER_00]: That's TJ, I'm Lyle.
32:05 --> 32:06 [SPEAKER_00]: As always, we thank you guys for tuning in.
32:06 --> 32:07 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk to you soon.