Lyle and TJ (recording a day early on Monday) have seen enough of the piggyback after the pushback from both Bryce Miller and Luis Castillo. They discuss why this is an issue, and analyze the disconnect between Mariners players and leadership (2:30). They then break down Logan Gilbert's 2026 season, and why he seems to be a tick off from his peak self (35:36).
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00:00 --> 00:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to episode number 408 of the Marine Lairer podcast recording here on Monday.
00:04 --> 00:07 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about the Mariners second piggyback experience.
00:07 --> 00:13 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll also talk about Logan Gilbert's 2026 season and how we're evaluating him going forward.
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01:00 --> 01:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Lair of podcast part of the just baseball podcast network recording here on Monday evening May 25th a day earlier than we normally do for a Wednesday episode, but because we had our emerald queen casino Mariners trivia night on Tuesday was going to be a bit of a late night, so we decided for this time to record a day early.
01:22 --> 01:24 [SPEAKER_01]: We're like, all right, well, some things to talk about.
01:24 --> 01:26 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners are piggybacking on Monday.
01:26 --> 01:28 [SPEAKER_01]: We wanted to talk about Logan Gilbert forever.
01:28 --> 01:29 [SPEAKER_01]: This would be a good time to do it.
01:29 --> 01:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Holy hell did we choose the right time to podcast to move it to Monday.
01:35 --> 01:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god.
01:36 --> 01:53 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I kid you not So we're obviously recording here after the piggyback that video that everyone has seen of of Luis Castillo spiking his glove into the dugout bench We saw that about three minutes before we started recording.
01:53 --> 01:57 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think he spiked his jacket He like took off his jacket and threw it down.
01:57 --> 01:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, he threw two things
01:59 --> 02:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, well, oh, great.
02:00 --> 02:03 [SPEAKER_00]: More than more of the mario, Louise, you're Jack and your glove.
02:04 --> 02:05 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's, let's do a film analysis here.
02:05 --> 02:08 [SPEAKER_01]: I, I'm almost certain he spikes two things, right?
02:08 --> 02:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
02:09 --> 02:16 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm watching a throes is he throws his jacket down, he picks up his hat and a glove, and then he spikes his hat also into the outbench.
02:19 --> 02:21 [SPEAKER_01]: This was before the conversation that was called on TV.
02:22 --> 02:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
02:23 --> 02:23 [SPEAKER_00]: So,
02:25 --> 02:28 [SPEAKER_00]: We have already had our event in EQC when this podcast comes out.
02:28 --> 02:37 [SPEAKER_00]: We're recording in a hell of a time because I am juiced up on energy after seeing all this ridiculous stuff go down on Monday after a win, by the way.
02:37 --> 02:39 [SPEAKER_00]: This almost feels like another scenario.
02:39 --> 02:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, Lyle, they won the game.
02:40 --> 02:42 [SPEAKER_00]: You're still talking about Kerry Carverner.
02:42 --> 02:45 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yep, it's like, well, the Mariners won the game.
02:45 --> 02:46 [SPEAKER_00]: You're still talking about this piggyback?
02:46 --> 02:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, and we're going to tell you why.
02:49 --> 03:00 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, spoiler alert, I'm gonna predict for those of you that are at our trivia event on Tuesday night, which is gonna be a blast and if I'm predicting in the future, it was awesome and you guys were all amazing.
03:01 --> 03:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Something tells me we're gonna be having some conversations with a lot of Mariners fans at this thing about this disastrous piggyback dude, disastrous.
03:11 --> 03:14 [SPEAKER_01]: to think about how things ended up the way they were.
03:15 --> 03:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, think about this.
03:16 --> 03:17 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners won the game.
03:18 --> 03:19 [SPEAKER_01]: They scored nine runs.
03:21 --> 03:24 [SPEAKER_01]: The actual pitching of the piggyback was fantastic.
03:25 --> 03:26 [SPEAKER_01]: They allowed two runs.
03:26 --> 03:31 [SPEAKER_01]: It was exactly what the Mariners could have drawn up from a run prevention method.
03:32 --> 03:35 [SPEAKER_01]: And then they still managed to piss everyone off.
03:36 --> 03:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
03:37 --> 03:38 [SPEAKER_01]: Think about that.
03:38 --> 03:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Think about how the play, specifically the pitchers feel about this process.
03:43 --> 03:49 [SPEAKER_01]: If everything possible could go right, and the Mariners manage to piss off, not one, but two of their starters.
03:51 --> 03:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And your longest tenured star, well, no, that's not true.
03:54 --> 03:55 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess Logan and Kirby were here before.
03:55 --> 03:56 [SPEAKER_00]: You're most veteran.
03:56 --> 03:57 [SPEAKER_00]: You're veteran starter.
03:58 --> 04:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Who at one point was the poster boy of your rotation?
04:02 --> 04:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, now he's furious.
04:04 --> 04:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So, just to walk everybody through.
04:06 --> 04:08 [SPEAKER_00]: TJ is right, the Mariners 192.
04:08 --> 04:10 [SPEAKER_00]: Score 9 runs, had 12 hits.
04:10 --> 04:17 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a plethora of home runs hit by the Mariners from Rayleigh and Canzone and J.P. and Randy.
04:17 --> 04:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Randy, oh my god, Randy's home run made me laugh so much the dude buzzes tower and then he hits just absolute nuke to center field and just stands at the plate and stares.
04:30 --> 04:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't move.
04:31 --> 04:31 [SPEAKER_01]: at all.
04:32 --> 04:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I knew as soon as that ball went up and in on Randy and that played appearance, that dude was swinging for the fence.
04:37 --> 04:41 [SPEAKER_01]: He was either going to strike out or he was going to hit a 440 foot home run and he hit the home run.
04:41 --> 04:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And that is the Randy a Rosarena experience.
04:44 --> 04:52 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it's electric, sometimes it makes you want to rip your hair out like on Sunday with that play made in the left field, but it is an experience.
04:52 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_00]: That's for sure.
04:53 --> 04:53 [SPEAKER_00]: But
04:54 --> 04:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I think this episode is going to be more about the pitching than the hitting.
04:57 --> 05:05 [SPEAKER_00]: For good reason, so credit to the Mariners, they scored a bunch of runs and they won, but when you go to the pitching side, again, just off the box score.
05:05 --> 05:21 [SPEAKER_00]: If you were somebody that was out on Monday evening and you're just coming back and you're looking at the box score, you would say, oh, Louise Castillo through four shutout innings with two hits, six strikeouts, and then Bryce Miller comes on, throws five innings, gives up two runs late.
05:21 --> 05:23 [SPEAKER_00]: but pitch as well in the Mariners win, nine to two.
05:24 --> 05:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, great.
05:25 --> 05:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're looking at the piggyback and saying, oh, maybe this time around, it actually clicked and some things went a lot better because by a run prevention standpoint, it did.
05:36 --> 05:45 [SPEAKER_00]: To be honest, by a run prevention standpoint, it went fine the first time, but again, the problem you circle back to is one, the night thinning was mismanaged as badly as about any regular season game I've ever seen.
05:46 --> 05:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And then it pissed everybody off.
05:50 --> 06:06 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll say for these these two games that the Mariners have done this piggyback wise game one It didn't seem like they had a solidified plan the pitching was really good But the plan was kind of erratic and it bit them in the ass and it didn't work and they managed to piss off their players Tonight on Monday night the Mariners had a plan.
06:06 --> 06:14 [SPEAKER_01]: They had a really they had a hard plan They were ready to go and they executed it well and the pitcher's pitch unbelievable
06:14 --> 06:18 [SPEAKER_01]: But they, again, that also manage to piss off their players by doing it.
06:18 --> 06:23 [SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't it tell you that even when things go as right as humanly possible and people are still unhappy?
06:23 --> 06:25 [SPEAKER_01]: That's probably not a good idea.
06:27 --> 06:31 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, this is why teams don't piggyback.
06:31 --> 06:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Look around the rest of the league.
06:33 --> 06:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you see a bunch of other teams piggybacking consistently?
06:37 --> 06:40 [SPEAKER_00]: It'd be one thing with a couple of fringe starters.
06:40 --> 06:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Like if teams around the league had a lot of, remember the name Robert Dugger, he threw some innings in 2021 for the Mariners?
06:47 --> 06:58 [SPEAKER_00]: If there's teams trying to piece things together with guys like that because they're legitimately down starting pitching and they need to find a way to fill innings, then that's their solution.
06:58 --> 06:59 [SPEAKER_00]: That's one thing.
06:59 --> 07:07 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't see teams around the league piggybacking with caliber pitchers like Bryce Miller and Luis Castillo and there is a reason for it.
07:08 --> 07:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So, now to get back to the game, Luis Castillo's taken out after four innings.
07:13 --> 07:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Clearly, this was the plan.
07:15 --> 07:20 [SPEAKER_00]: He was dealing, and you could have argued, yeah, he probably should have kept going, but this was the plan.
07:21 --> 07:24 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the problem with having a starting pitcher, like Bryce Miller's starting late in the game.
07:25 --> 07:29 [SPEAKER_00]: He has to be on some sort of routine, or he's gonna be totally out of rhythm.
07:30 --> 07:32 [SPEAKER_00]: He was probably out of rhythm enough, and we'll get to that later.
07:32 --> 07:36 [SPEAKER_00]: But he had to be on some sort of routine.
07:37 --> 07:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So Louise was done after four innings.
07:39 --> 07:48 [SPEAKER_00]: Shout out the Mariners TV crew because they had that camera right on Dan Wilson and Louise Castillo for a good portion of that top of the fifth inning.
07:49 --> 07:53 [SPEAKER_00]: When there's a long, pretty candid conversation going on, could you hear what was being said?
07:53 --> 07:58 [SPEAKER_00]: No, what I really love to see Jimmy from John Boy, break it all down if he could read the lips.
07:58 --> 07:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that'd be awesome.
07:59 --> 07:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I would love to know.
07:59 --> 08:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I think we're getting one.
08:01 --> 08:03 [SPEAKER_00]: good because I want to know what's going on in that conversation.
08:04 --> 08:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if we have to send John Boy and DM.
08:05 --> 08:07 [SPEAKER_00]: We do know some people at John Boy.
08:07 --> 08:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we can have somebody relay the message and be like, hey, like, I don't know what strings we have to pull, but we need this breakdown.
08:15 --> 08:28 [SPEAKER_00]: We need it because I don't know what was going on in that conversation, but it was clearly Dan Wilson trying to like settle the waters and try to calm the situation and Louise Castillo looked
08:31 --> 08:33 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it spoke really loud.
08:33 --> 08:34 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what was shouting at us?
08:34 --> 08:35 [SPEAKER_01]: His body language.
08:36 --> 08:36 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
08:36 --> 08:56 [SPEAKER_01]: He was pissed that he was getting taken out of the game It's seriously the this was like the second or third pan in the middle of an at bath that they're going back to Dan Talking to Luis Castillo, and you could see like Dan's mouth continuously keeps moving Luis is not saying he's he's mumbling out like a word or two because
08:58 --> 09:01 [SPEAKER_01]: Luis is like pissed and he's sitting there, he feels like he's like seething.
09:02 --> 09:05 [SPEAKER_01]: And Dan is like, is the one doing all the talking to try and calm him down.
09:05 --> 09:08 [SPEAKER_01]: And you see Luis like, if you're watching on YouTube, you'll get the visual.
09:08 --> 09:12 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, put his head in his hands like this down.
09:12 --> 09:16 [SPEAKER_01]: And like, oh, like I can't believe that just happened to me.
09:17 --> 09:43 [SPEAKER_01]: and think about it for like Luis and like put yourself in Luis's choose Luis Castillo is not had a smooth season at all and he finally probably feels like he's in a really good group and he's thrown the ball really well and then all of a sudden you get yanked out because of pitching strategy not because you're not pitching well because the mariners deem that year old you should only throw four innings in that start.
09:44 --> 09:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, to be fair, that looked like the most efficient way to use Luis Casteo in my opinion, but I'm putting myself in Luis Casteo shoes who wants to throw as long as possible.
09:53 --> 09:58 [SPEAKER_01]: But clearly, he's not happy about that because he's like, I finally getting some good momentum and you guys yank it right out from under me.
09:59 --> 10:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, how dare you feel a little bit trade?
10:00 --> 10:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, how could you not?
10:03 --> 10:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and when Bryce Miller was doing the same thing in the
10:13 --> 10:16 [SPEAKER_01]: Wasting, get the same tree when he's sitting there thinking, what the fuck?
10:17 --> 10:21 [SPEAKER_00]: And Bryce felt betrayed in that first outing and he went longer than Louise and he was dealing.
10:22 --> 10:24 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, both of them were fully in their right.
10:25 --> 10:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, both times, but in their starts during each respective piggyback, each of them were fully in their right to be pissed because both of them were pitching really well and they got their starts cut short.
10:43 --> 10:57 [SPEAKER_00]: So then you, I'm sort of time jumping sort of not because if you're gonna go and chronological order, Daniel Cramer might have posted the video later after the game, but these events happen in chronologically.
10:57 --> 11:07 [SPEAKER_00]: Well then when that conversation ends is the video we're referencing when Louise Castillo gets up, throws his jacket onto the dugout bench, picks up his glove, picks up his hat, and then chucks his hat down.
11:08 --> 11:11 [SPEAKER_00]: His pissed is every right to be pissed.
11:12 --> 11:16 [SPEAKER_01]: that doesn't seem like something that should be happening when you're up, you win a game nine two.
11:17 --> 11:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Not at all.
11:19 --> 11:27 [SPEAKER_00]: So then, as we keep progressing forward, because we'll get through the timeline of this game and then we can rip off any other opinions we have about this.
11:28 --> 11:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, Bryce Miller goes five innings, gives up two runs.
11:30 --> 11:35 [SPEAKER_00]: He gave up a home run late to Shay Langolier who has just been destroying the baseball this year.
11:35 --> 11:36 [SPEAKER_00]: He's been insane.
11:36 --> 11:39 [SPEAKER_00]: He's probably going to start for the AL and the all-star game in the country.
11:41 --> 11:51 [SPEAKER_00]: back to the Mariners, they win, they win handedly, and they get off to a really good start in a series against the team, they are technically chasing in the ALS than the A's.
11:52 --> 11:52 [SPEAKER_00]: You think, okay?
11:53 --> 11:55 [SPEAKER_00]: All good things, and everything worked.
11:56 --> 12:01 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get to Bryce Miller's post game interview with Brad Adam, who credits a Brad.
12:01 --> 12:05 [SPEAKER_00]: He really, he really got the answers that people were looking for in this interview.
12:05 --> 12:12 [SPEAKER_00]: He asked really good questions, just like the Mariners TV camera and their TV crew got right on Dan and Louise to capture that moment.
12:13 --> 12:17 [SPEAKER_00]: Brad did a really good job capturing this moment because he was asking Bryce about.
12:18 --> 12:34 [SPEAKER_00]: piggybacking and the routine change and the comterability of it and speaking of that comterability question I mean I just have to play you guys the sound it is it is unreal I've laughed every time I've watched this so far here tonight since it's come out so
12:35 --> 12:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Here is Brad Adam talking to Bryce Miller post game when asked about the comfort ability of coming out of the bullpen.
12:40 --> 12:47 [SPEAKER_03]: I went maybe in the win as well because when he's going forward, so you've done the starter first, now the second guy the second time.
12:47 --> 12:51 [SPEAKER_03]: So is it getting more, I guess, comfortable now that you've done both situations?
12:55 --> 13:05 [SPEAKER_02]: This set-up's not very comfortable, but like I said, I mean, I think the day I get to come out and pitch in the big leagues and something there.
13:05 --> 13:14 [SPEAKER_00]: So then obviously Bryce was trying to save the answer and say nice things speak well about his teammates and I get it, but that answer is hilarious.
13:14 --> 13:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, like, how was it in terms of comfortability?
13:18 --> 13:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, three second pause and then change the subject.
13:23 --> 13:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, but not before he said, I mean, it's not something that's comfortable.
13:28 --> 13:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
13:28 --> 13:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
13:28 --> 13:28 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
13:28 --> 13:30 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, let's say that in order.
13:30 --> 13:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So it was um three second pause.
13:34 --> 13:36 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like what I'm doing right now.
13:36 --> 13:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Change the subject.
13:38 --> 13:44 [SPEAKER_01]: He says, does that sound like something that priced real is like, yeah, I'm willing to do whatever it takes.
13:45 --> 13:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, that is parlayed with the answers he gave postgame in his first start and his body language when he was taken out in his first start in the piggyback all combined together.
13:54 --> 13:55 [SPEAKER_00]: He's pissed.
13:55 --> 14:00 [SPEAKER_00]: He's pissed in Luis Castillo's pissed and both of them have every right to be pissed off.
14:02 --> 14:04 [SPEAKER_01]: I honestly didn't even think this was possible.
14:05 --> 14:12 [SPEAKER_01]: I knew this second piggyback start was going to, going to, it's, it was gonna mess up somewhere another.
14:13 --> 14:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Could I have predicted that the Mariners were gonna execute like from a game strategy perspective, execute perfectly, the team scored a bunch of runs and they still managed to piss off both of their pictures.
14:26 --> 14:27 [SPEAKER_01]: I would have said no shot.
14:27 --> 14:28 [SPEAKER_00]: But here we go.
14:30 --> 14:32 [SPEAKER_00]: and look man, Bryce is a really candid guy.
14:32 --> 14:40 [SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about it, like Bryce Miller's probably one of our favorite guys to have a conversation with the ballpark, because he's happy to talk.
14:41 --> 14:45 [SPEAKER_00]: He's happy to share inside, like, you know, I think he genuinely just enjoys talking to people.
14:46 --> 14:51 [SPEAKER_00]: And he's pretty open in a game where, you know, a lot of players aren't that way.
14:51 --> 14:53 [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of managers aren't that way.
14:55 --> 14:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Bryce Miller is.
14:56 --> 15:00 [SPEAKER_00]: Bryce Miller's pretty open to talk and he's pretty transparent, which I know a lot of people appreciate.
15:01 --> 15:06 [SPEAKER_00]: That right there was him being very transparent, and it didn't seem to bother him that the camera was on.
15:06 --> 15:08 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, I don't blame him.
15:08 --> 15:13 [SPEAKER_00]: He's every right to feel that way, and I think people really appreciated the transparency you showed in that interview.
15:15 --> 15:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Alright, I'm just going to say it again.
15:19 --> 15:22 [SPEAKER_01]: We said this after the first time they piggybacked, and we'll just save here again.
15:23 --> 15:26 [SPEAKER_01]: They can't run the piggyback back again.
15:26 --> 15:27 [SPEAKER_01]: They cannot do it.
15:28 --> 15:34 [SPEAKER_01]: How many more examples do you need that your players are not buying into this idea than what you currently have?
15:35 --> 15:41 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, just because the other guys in the rotation don't have to go through this, these starters are all good friends.
15:41 --> 15:41 [SPEAKER_00]: They're all close.
15:42 --> 15:48 [SPEAKER_00]: You think Brian Wu and George Kirby and Logan Gilbert, NEMRS and Hancock are looking at this and this is awesome.
15:49 --> 15:51 [SPEAKER_00]: No shot, no shot.
15:52 --> 15:53 [SPEAKER_00]: it's just not directly affecting them.
15:54 --> 16:00 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you're seeing a lot of people incredibly unhappy with this for every good reason.
16:01 --> 16:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And you are, yeah, to echo what you said?
16:03 --> 16:05 [SPEAKER_00]: No, this has to be the end.
16:05 --> 16:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Cut it, kill it, it's done, it's over, no more piggybacking.
16:09 --> 16:14 [SPEAKER_01]: commit to something, either put someone in the bullpen or run with a six-man rotation.
16:14 --> 16:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Clearly, it doesn't seem like it's going to benefit your clubhouse to try and thread the needle with this.
16:21 --> 16:24 [SPEAKER_01]: The players are doing everything except telling you to your face.
16:24 --> 16:25 [SPEAKER_01]: This is not what we want.
16:26 --> 16:27 [SPEAKER_01]: This is not the best way to utilize us.
16:28 --> 16:33 [SPEAKER_01]: This is not what makes this happy and this is going to cause more problems if you keep doing this.
16:34 --> 16:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So I now unfortunately have to amend something after what we saw tonight out of Luis Castillo.
16:40 --> 16:46 [SPEAKER_00]: I have been adamant that the Mariners should put him on the fan of my L for weeks just to kick this down the road and figure it out.
16:47 --> 16:51 [SPEAKER_00]: There is now no chance, Louise Cassio would, oh my god, I can't talk.
16:52 --> 16:56 [SPEAKER_00]: There is now no chance Louise Cassio would accept a stint on the fan of I.L.
16:57 --> 17:00 [SPEAKER_01]: After what we just saw, there's no foul grievance in in a heartbeat.
17:00 --> 17:04 [SPEAKER_00]: He would 100% file a grievance and he would say, I'm not hurt.
17:05 --> 17:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not injured, I want to pitch.
17:07 --> 17:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going on the aisle.
17:09 --> 17:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that would have been possible a few weeks ago, even a few days ago, after what we just saw unfold here on Monday night, there's no way.
17:17 --> 17:19 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no ways taking a step on the fan of my aisle now.
17:19 --> 17:30 [SPEAKER_00]: So now, you either need to make a decision and put somebody in the bullpen, probably Louise, or you need to run a six-man rotation, which I still don't love because that leaves you a bullpen arm short.
17:30 --> 17:33 [SPEAKER_00]: But you got to pick one of the other, because this is ridiculous.
17:34 --> 17:42 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the decision they're going to make where they want all of these guys pitching in the big legs Which is the only which is the only choice you really have because they're your best arms.
17:42 --> 17:52 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a decision has to be made It should have been made before the first time they piggybacked, but now I mean I'm hoping by the time this episode actually comes out the mayor has made a decision
17:53 --> 17:58 [SPEAKER_01]: whether it be public yet or not, on what they're doing the next time out, and it cannot include the words piggyback.
17:58 --> 18:04 [SPEAKER_01]: It cannot include the words of throwing Bryce Miller and Luis Castillo for three innings each in the same game.
18:04 --> 18:05 [SPEAKER_01]: That's done.
18:06 --> 18:06 [SPEAKER_01]: It's over.
18:06 --> 18:07 [SPEAKER_01]: No more.
18:08 --> 18:09 [SPEAKER_01]: No.
18:09 --> 18:13 [SPEAKER_01]: The players are telling you everything you need to know about what they feel about this.
18:13 --> 18:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And you can say, you know, like, that sucks, but we're the ones to make decisions in the strategy.
18:19 --> 18:19 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's totally fair.
18:20 --> 18:22 [SPEAKER_01]: but the players of the ones playing the game.
18:22 --> 18:25 [SPEAKER_01]: And if they're not happy, then they might not play as well.
18:26 --> 18:33 [SPEAKER_00]: So remember how I mentioned on one of our podcasts this past week when we were talking about all the piggybacking stuff.
18:33 --> 18:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was saying, we don't know exactly whose final decision this is to be run in this piggybackstep.
18:39 --> 18:43 [SPEAKER_00]: You would assume it's Jared Apoto because he runs the front office.
18:43 --> 18:45 [SPEAKER_00]: He is the head of the front office.
18:46 --> 18:47 [SPEAKER_00]: And we also said,
18:48 --> 18:51 [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't always seem like he has the greatest feel in the world for people.
18:52 --> 18:54 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's your prime example.
18:55 --> 18:59 [SPEAKER_00]: They ran this back again because they were so sure that
19:00 --> 19:13 [SPEAKER_00]: what was the best idea in their minds, despite players having public disdain for it, was still gonna take precedent and still be the ultimate right decision and as a result, you have further pissed off more players.
19:13 --> 19:16 [SPEAKER_00]: You cannot, like, I don't, we're big numbers, guys.
19:17 --> 19:24 [SPEAKER_00]: You got to throw all the numbers out if you are gonna legitimately piss off an entire clubhouse or piss off an entire rotation or piss off two guys in your rotation.
19:25 --> 19:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Because that,
19:30 --> 19:48 [SPEAKER_00]: ruins everything that will destroy everything you have unhappy players forget about what the numbers in the match up say the guys aren't going to be motivated to play you lost the plot that i totally totally agree we got some more opinions on this subject about but before we get to those let's pause here for an ad
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21:00 --> 21:05 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm 100% with you on the players, going forward, there needs to be changes.
21:06 --> 21:24 [SPEAKER_01]: But now I mean what we saw on TV today, I think painted a picture of something we've been talking about, that we were hoping would eventually, I would say, correct itself or actually work the way it's supposed to the way people tell us things are supposed to.
21:28 --> 21:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Communicate the idea and the thought process and the strategy to Louise Castillo.
21:33 --> 21:37 [SPEAKER_01]: We're thinking, okay, Dan's supposed to be the clubhouse guy.
21:38 --> 21:41 [SPEAKER_01]: His strength is communicating with his players and getting the most out of them.
21:43 --> 21:51 [SPEAKER_01]: We're now two games into this piggyback where the message has not been communicated effectively to his own players.
21:51 --> 21:54 [SPEAKER_01]: And that to the two of us, Lyle, seems like kind of an issue.
21:56 --> 21:58 [SPEAKER_01]: It definitely seems like an issue.
21:59 --> 22:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Because this was what people were sold on when Dan Wilson was brought in.
22:04 --> 22:05 [SPEAKER_00]: He's such a clubhouse guy.
22:05 --> 22:07 [SPEAKER_00]: They wanted to change from Scott's service.
22:07 --> 22:09 [SPEAKER_00]: They figured he'd lift up the clubhouse.
22:09 --> 22:11 [SPEAKER_00]: The culture would be different.
22:11 --> 22:11 [SPEAKER_00]: It'd be better.
22:13 --> 22:20 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't know the ends and outs of that clubhouse, but we have publicly seen four different mariners.
22:20 --> 22:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Be pissed off through 2026.
22:24 --> 22:25 [SPEAKER_00]: You've seen it with Cal Raleigh.
22:25 --> 22:27 [SPEAKER_00]: You've seen it with Randy Rosarana.
22:27 --> 22:31 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, those are joint together, but they were both pissed off for, I guess, different reasons.
22:31 --> 22:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And you've seen it with Bryce Miller.
22:32 --> 22:34 [SPEAKER_00]: You've seen it with Luis Castillo.
22:34 --> 22:38 [SPEAKER_00]: The Cal and Randy stuff happened away from Mariners facilities.
22:39 --> 22:39 [SPEAKER_00]: But...
22:40 --> 22:43 [SPEAKER_00]: nothing seemed to exactly help the situation when things got back.
22:43 --> 22:51 [SPEAKER_00]: Because if you remember, Randy put out a statement that felt like bullshit to be honest, I wouldn't be shocked if Cal wasn't happy with the statement that was put out.
22:52 --> 22:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Because, I mean, for a good week there.
22:56 --> 22:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Randy put out what was a pretty blank statement.
23:00 --> 23:09 [SPEAKER_00]: He eventually put out that second one, which was a little more heartfelt or whoever wrote it for him, whatever, but the first one was not heartfelt at all.
23:10 --> 23:19 [SPEAKER_00]: And I would guess like these two pictures currently feel like, Cal felt a little bit trade back then if I had to guess, now these two pictures,
23:20 --> 23:47 [SPEAKER_00]: feel betrayed with the way this is being deployed and by Louise Castillo's conversation with Dan Wilson on Monday night, either Louise Castillo was not properly communicated the game plan and didn't realize he was only going to go for innings or that after four innings he had a real case which he did to say I should be sticking in this game and he
23:49 --> 23:53 [SPEAKER_00]: which is still a lack of communication, because it must not have been communicated before.
23:53 --> 23:56 [SPEAKER_00]: It clearly was not said hardcore, Louise.
23:56 --> 23:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever you do, I don't care if you're throwing a perfect game through four innings.
23:59 --> 24:00 [SPEAKER_00]: You're done after four.
24:01 --> 24:09 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that was clearly communicated or else, I don't think they'd have to have that long conversation with him chucking his jacket and his ad at the end of it.
24:11 --> 24:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And if Dan's not able to communicate to the clubhouse clearly, then we run down the list of things.
24:19 --> 24:33 [SPEAKER_01]: Where the in-game decisions aren't good, the fundamentals aren't good, and from the examples we've got this week, when adversity is starting to hit with some of the things they're having to manage with this clubhouse and some of the personalities of established big league players.
24:34 --> 24:37 [SPEAKER_01]: people are publicly pissed.
24:37 --> 24:40 [SPEAKER_01]: This is not off the record comments to the Seattle Times.
24:40 --> 24:44 [SPEAKER_01]: This is on Mariners television that players are telling you they're pissed off.
24:46 --> 25:00 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, if that's, if that's the point we're at, and it's because things aren't being communicated well and the clubhouse vibes of last season are no longer and it was a brief, stint, I don't know, man.
25:00 --> 25:03 [SPEAKER_01]: There's just, there's no boxes checked at that point.
25:04 --> 25:14 [SPEAKER_00]: No, again, if he's making bad in game decisions, if the fundamentals are bad, if the clubhouse is not being lifted up and you're not winning games
25:17 --> 25:24 [SPEAKER_00]: then what exactly is he contributing is I guess the best way you can say it.
25:25 --> 25:26 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what boxes are checked?
25:27 --> 25:33 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know because this is supposed to, this is supposed to be his thing, the clubhouse, the culture.
25:34 --> 25:35 [SPEAKER_00]: It's supposed to be really strong.
25:36 --> 25:42 [SPEAKER_00]: There's currently four players that have gotten pissed off over the course of the start of spring training, till now.
25:42 --> 25:45 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not even saying that all the cow Randy stuff,
25:46 --> 25:57 [SPEAKER_00]: falls on Dan because again it happened away from Mariners camp from Mariners facilities but it does become a Dan Wilson issue and responsibility when they get back to camp and if there's lingering effects.
25:57 --> 25:58 [SPEAKER_00]: Is there lingering effects?
25:58 --> 26:06 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know the broadcast seems to pan away anytime either of them hits a home run and you try to see if the two of them are celebrating together they never show it.
26:06 --> 26:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean you've said the same thing, right?
26:08 --> 26:13 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll give you notice watching these games that they never show Kalon Randy celebrating or not celebrating during a home run, right?
26:14 --> 26:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yes.
26:15 --> 26:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So we don't have the answer to that.
26:18 --> 26:21 [SPEAKER_00]: If there are lingering effects, that is on Dan Wilson to manage.
26:22 --> 26:28 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't know if there are not, but you know there are lasting effects right now with Bryce Miller and Louise Castillo.
26:29 --> 26:35 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, it would have been one thing if you would see in the
26:36 --> 26:59 [SPEAKER_00]: disgruntled duo of arms after one start and then this time they were totally chill with it that if Louise had come out after four innings he would have just been fine and he would have just shrugged it off and he was like yeah that was the plan and and I understood but no he chucked his hat down he threw his jacket onto the dugout and then he had Bryce Miller post games say this isn't a situation I'm comfortable with.
27:00 --> 27:03 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's another thing I've a problem with I'm glad I opened my phone to look at this.
27:04 --> 27:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Bryce Miller apparently only found out he'd pitch out of the pen a day or two ago.
27:09 --> 27:10 [SPEAKER_01]: That can't be real.
27:10 --> 27:12 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a totally real.
27:12 --> 27:13 [SPEAKER_01]: How is that possible?
27:14 --> 27:15 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you serious?
27:15 --> 27:17 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm dead serious quote from Bryce.
27:17 --> 27:21 [SPEAKER_01]: Haven't done this in a while really since college pitching out of the bullpen.
27:21 --> 27:21 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know.
27:22 --> 27:24 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't really know how to navigate it, but just did the best I could.
27:25 --> 27:27 [SPEAKER_01]: How in the world is that possible?
27:28 --> 27:29 [SPEAKER_01]: This isn't even just a damn thing.
27:29 --> 27:30 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a whole
27:33 --> 28:01 [SPEAKER_01]: they keep things simple for these guys like day off like some of these meetings they just do when they get to the ballpark they don't know ahead of point ahead of time but for starting pitchers once they make the big leagues their entire lives is based around pitching on certain days and they build their whole week routine of doing that and had Bryce find out his routine is going to be different a day or two ago and then him coming out and saying yep i don't know what i was going to do
28:03 --> 28:04 [SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't that seem like a problem?
28:04 --> 28:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't that seem like something you'd say, hey, Bryce, we're gonna try and give you as much of a heads up as possible that we're gonna do this.
28:10 --> 28:13 [SPEAKER_01]: So you can be more comfortable with this.
28:14 --> 28:18 [SPEAKER_01]: But now, Bryce is saying, oh no, this was not communicated well to me at all.
28:19 --> 28:21 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's horrendous.
28:21 --> 28:22 [SPEAKER_00]: Who tweeted that, by the way?
28:22 --> 28:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Just as Jude.
28:23 --> 28:24 [SPEAKER_00]: It was Jude.
28:24 --> 28:25 [SPEAKER_00]: I was just trying to look at this.
28:26 --> 28:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he,
28:27 --> 28:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Why am I not seeing this quote?
28:29 --> 28:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, here it is, here it is.
28:29 --> 28:30 [SPEAKER_00]: It's in a thread.
28:31 --> 28:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, look at that.
28:32 --> 28:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Jude tweets 30 minutes ago.
28:34 --> 28:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Bryce Miller said he only found out he pitched out of the pen a day or two ago.
28:39 --> 28:41 [SPEAKER_01]: My God, this has to stop.
28:42 --> 28:45 [SPEAKER_01]: This, like, they're playing around with something.
28:45 --> 28:47 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't, shouldn't want to play around with.
28:49 --> 28:54 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't know what Bryce Miller's long, long term future looks like in Seattle.
28:54 --> 28:55 [SPEAKER_00]: He's got a lot of club control left.
28:58 --> 29:06 [SPEAKER_00]: If you have any interest in keeping Bryce Miller here for the very long term, you're not helping yourself right now at all.
29:07 --> 29:17 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, Luis Castillo, I mean, obviously the no trade clause is something that is made his decision, that's obviously gone in his contract, it's up now.
29:19 --> 29:27 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you don't really see players demand trades in baseball, but if this keeps going the wrong route, I mean, you're talking about catastrophe.
29:27 --> 29:29 [SPEAKER_00]: This continues to go on.
29:31 --> 29:33 [SPEAKER_00]: And I got to be honest, go ahead.
29:34 --> 29:35 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't really have anything else.
29:37 --> 29:44 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm slightly changing the subject, not really, because this is still about clubhouse culture and communication and Dan Wilson.
29:46 --> 29:49 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't help but wonder, I know we're not the only people that have thrown this out there.
29:51 --> 30:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't help but wonder what the feeling in that clubhouse is about him after game seven of the world series.
30:01 --> 30:10 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't help but wonder, can we know for sure that guys are still potentially mad about it or, you know, disgruntled about it, if you're pissed off about it?
30:11 --> 30:13 [SPEAKER_00]: No, because nobody's spoken about it.
30:14 --> 30:32 [SPEAKER_00]: But you can't help but wonder if that point in time that games seven of the world series was the turning point where there was a potential to Dan Wilson lost a lot of that clubhouse because while players might not have realized it in the moment because there was so many emotions and so much intensity built into that game in that series.
30:32 --> 30:34 [SPEAKER_00]: that it's time went on throughout the offseason.
30:34 --> 30:40 [SPEAKER_00]: There's definitely a world player saw all the discourse and all of the information that was put out there.
30:40 --> 30:44 [SPEAKER_00]: And they realized, yeah, why in the world was Andre's Muno's not in the game in the seventh inning?
30:45 --> 30:48 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Dan Wilson cost him a chance to go to the world series.
30:49 --> 30:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't help but imagine it's some point in the offseason.
30:51 --> 30:53 [SPEAKER_00]: That ran through a lot of guys' heads.
30:53 --> 30:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And to this day,
30:55 --> 31:04 [SPEAKER_00]: To this day, there has not been a sufficient answer from anybody in the organization about why the situation was deployed the way it was in game seven.
31:05 --> 31:16 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't help but think about if there's some chance that what happening game seven of the ALCS was the turning point in all this and now there's a potential trust that's been broken between players and manager.
31:17 --> 31:26 [SPEAKER_01]: and the players are sitting there watching these decisions being made from Dan and from the front office and saying, are we being put in the best situation possible for us in the team?
31:27 --> 31:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Because we being put in the best situation possible for the Mariners organization and that's it.
31:35 --> 31:40 [SPEAKER_00]: Because you go back on the timeline to last October, they were not put in the best position there.
31:42 --> 31:55 [SPEAKER_00]: And if that lingers around in players' heads and you're seeing things unfold now, this season, you think, okay, this is happening now, they've already not put us in a good position to win back in the most pivotal moment of our baseball careers.
31:56 --> 31:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, is there a world there could be some trust broken?
32:00 --> 32:00 [SPEAKER_00]: I think so.
32:01 --> 32:02 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not gonna know for sure.
32:02 --> 32:04 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, let me say it twice.
32:04 --> 32:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody and I mean nobody has given a sufficient answer on why the seventh inning of game seven was deployed the way it was.
32:14 --> 32:22 [SPEAKER_00]: But you can't help but wonder if that is in the player's minds and they're thinking about it somewhat regularly.
32:26 --> 32:37 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, there's one thing that is clear as day that Bryce Muller and Louise Cassio do not trust and it's this piggyback because they both said it and they both voiced it very clearly that they're not buying this at all.
32:38 --> 32:40 [SPEAKER_01]: If they were buying into it, we wouldn't see any of this stuff.
32:41 --> 32:45 [SPEAKER_01]: UNC Bryce, Bryce would have, Brad would have said, hey, Bryce, how are you feeling coming out of the woman?
32:46 --> 32:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I feel great.
32:47 --> 32:49 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it was thrown really hard out there.
32:49 --> 32:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Bryce could have taken out.
32:50 --> 32:52 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yeah, all right, understand.
32:53 --> 32:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Bryce could have said post game.
32:55 --> 32:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was a little bit of an adjustment, but once I got into the groove, I got settled in.
32:59 --> 33:01 [SPEAKER_00]: I got myself going, and I liked the way I threw the ball.
33:02 --> 33:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Castillo could have said post game.
33:04 --> 33:08 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it was obviously a little bit of a short start, but I understood the plan.
33:08 --> 33:09 [SPEAKER_00]: It was executed well.
33:09 --> 33:10 [SPEAKER_00]: We won the game.
33:10 --> 33:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Ultimately winning is what's most important here and the team seeing W's and the win column is the ultimate goal.
33:18 --> 33:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Me and those answers were even close to being given on Monday night and there would have been nothing thrown in the dugout when he got taken out No, no, but here we sit and spend So we will conclude with this Do you just said it already?
33:34 --> 33:35 [SPEAKER_00]: I said it already.
33:35 --> 33:36 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say it again this
33:37 --> 33:39 [SPEAKER_00]: cannot happen.
33:40 --> 33:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, they're can not be another piggyback game with Bryce Miller in the East Castillo.
33:47 --> 33:48 [SPEAKER_00]: It's done.
33:48 --> 33:50 [SPEAKER_00]: It's over, wrap it.
33:51 --> 33:51 [SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
33:52 --> 33:55 [SPEAKER_01]: Dude, I'm scared to see the fallout of what happens if they do this again.
33:59 --> 33:59 [SPEAKER_01]: We've escalated.
34:00 --> 34:04 [SPEAKER_01]: We went from one picture being pissed to two pictures being pissed.
34:05 --> 34:05 [SPEAKER_01]: The
34:09 --> 34:11 [SPEAKER_01]: What happens the third time if they try this again?
34:12 --> 34:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I can make you one promise.
34:14 --> 34:17 [SPEAKER_00]: I will be going on social media and doing a green screen reaction.
34:17 --> 34:19 [SPEAKER_00]: I can promise you that.
34:19 --> 34:25 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't wanna make any total promises, but I've got a pretty good feeling.
34:25 --> 34:28 [SPEAKER_00]: I may be a little animated for that one.
34:29 --> 34:33 [SPEAKER_00]: If we really see news that there is gonna be another piggyback game.
34:34 --> 34:39 [SPEAKER_00]: By the way, guys, as we wrap this first segment of the pot up, I have no idea what happened in Tuesday's game.
34:40 --> 34:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe the Mariners hit a walk on our, no, that's not possible they're on the road.
34:43 --> 34:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe the Mariners hit a ninth inning grand slam down three runs to take the lead, Muno's shuts the door, and they had a crazy win.
34:49 --> 35:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know because we had to record early because we're doing our awesome, awesome trivia and I at EQC on Tuesday, but as we sit here recording on Monday, whoop, tough vibes to start the series and after a win, by the way.
35:03 --> 35:07 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we should be talking about a great win against a first place team.
35:08 --> 35:12 [SPEAKER_01]: The Mariners continue to have the best run differential in the entire A.L.
35:12 --> 35:12 [SPEAKER_01]: West.
35:12 --> 35:15 [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, all right, I'm starting to feel a little bit better, but no, nope.
35:17 --> 35:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, good news as we're wrapping this up.
35:20 --> 35:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Man, what a great time to be recording a late night podcast.
35:23 --> 35:26 [SPEAKER_01]: This is might be the best time to podcast we've ever done.
35:26 --> 35:36 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, because I think you're seeing what I'm saying, Jeff Passen just tweeted out that the A's are calling up Gabe Jump, one of the best left-handed pitching prospects and baseball sources tell ESPN.
35:36 --> 35:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Jump runs as fastball up to 97.
35:37 --> 35:40 [SPEAKER_00]: He throws out some of the numbers in Triple A.
35:41 --> 35:47 [SPEAKER_00]: They haven't announced exactly when he's starting yet, but if he's starting in this series, oh boy.
35:48 --> 35:49 [SPEAKER_01]: he's going to start in this series.
35:50 --> 35:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh good.
35:51 --> 35:53 [SPEAKER_00]: So the Mariners are going to see a lefty throwing 97 miles an hour.
35:53 --> 35:54 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really that'll go well.
35:55 --> 35:59 [SPEAKER_01]: That seems like that seems like a problem given they couldn't hit Jacob Lopez.
36:00 --> 36:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Or they couldn't or they actually co-like was a righty, but yeah.
36:04 --> 36:14 [SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe any K. Yeah, or Anthony K. Or Noah Cameron had a 5-VRA entering the start on Friday for the Royals and they didn't really and they didn't hit him.
36:15 --> 36:19 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I gauge jump for those who are not prospect followers is really good.
36:20 --> 36:25 [SPEAKER_01]: So Severino starting tomorrow, actually no, maybe he's not pitching in this series.
36:26 --> 36:27 [SPEAKER_00]: Unless they move everybody back.
36:27 --> 36:29 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's entirely possible.
36:29 --> 36:34 [SPEAKER_01]: They have Severino tomorrow and springs on, uh, Wednesday.
36:34 --> 36:34 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, great.
36:34 --> 36:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe they'll move Severino back a couple days and they'll go jump and spring.
36:38 --> 36:39 [SPEAKER_00]: So, two lefties.
36:42 --> 36:44 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, everyone's favorite.
36:45 --> 36:47 [SPEAKER_00]: vibes are high vibes are high.
36:48 --> 36:51 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm hoping the vibes will be high at the end of this next segment.
36:51 --> 36:52 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess we'll see.
36:52 --> 36:53 [SPEAKER_01]: There are some definitely some ups and downs.
36:53 --> 37:07 [SPEAKER_01]: But before we get to that, speaking of our trivia night, speaking of EQC, Blackberry Smoke is coming to EQC at 730 pm on Friday, June 12th, the Southern Rock standout spring their live touring energy to the Pacific Northwest.
37:07 --> 37:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Get your tickets today at EmeraldQueen.com and while you're there, you can check out the
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37:32 --> 37:43 [SPEAKER_01]: We've wanted to talk about Logan Gilbert for a minute now, because it has been an interesting season for Logan Gilbert, and one that has not quite lived up to the expectations we thought it would have going into this season.
37:44 --> 37:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Across the board, Logan Gilbert has the worst expected numbers of his career.
37:48 --> 37:55 [SPEAKER_01]: He's getting hit harder, he's not striking out as many batters, and we're left sit here wondering a year and a half out from his free agency.
37:56 --> 37:57 [SPEAKER_01]: What's going on with Logan Gilbert?
38:00 --> 38:06 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's funny, a lot of the things when you look at just the numbers on paper and some of the data on paper with Logan Gilbert.
38:07 --> 38:12 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the overall efficiency and the overall production is obviously down.
38:12 --> 38:20 [SPEAKER_00]: If you were to just look at his savam bubbles from 2026 to then 2025 to then 2024, where he obviously had the best year of his career in 24.
38:21 --> 38:24 [SPEAKER_00]: There is a difference, and he's getting hit harder.
38:24 --> 38:26 [SPEAKER_00]: He is, give it up more barrels.
38:27 --> 38:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's not striking as many guys out.
38:29 --> 38:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Or, well, actually, strike out numbers or actually more back to where they were in 24.
38:33 --> 38:37 [SPEAKER_00]: But overall with Logan Gilbert, just you look at his 2026 numbers.
38:37 --> 38:39 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, it's just kind of down across the board.
38:39 --> 38:40 [SPEAKER_00]: He's not getting as much swing and mess.
38:40 --> 38:41 [SPEAKER_00]: That's for sure.
38:42 --> 38:47 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's down, but then you could kind of
38:51 --> 38:55 [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't have crazy platoon splits, which is good news.
38:56 --> 39:01 [SPEAKER_00]: His fastball Velo last year to this year isn't all that different.
39:02 --> 39:06 [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty much the same, which I guess is good news, although there's more to that, which we can dive into.
39:07 --> 39:11 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're looking at his pure stuff and saying, okay.
39:12 --> 39:14 [SPEAKER_00]: his splitter's not getting hit all that hard.
39:14 --> 39:18 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't have the swing and miss that it's had in years past, but it's not getting hit all that much.
39:19 --> 39:25 [SPEAKER_00]: Like there's things with Logan where you can look and say, this is gonna turn around and now is the RAs right at about four.
39:25 --> 39:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So one or two more good starts and he's back to about his crew numbers, the other side of that is if you dig even deeper, you can find some potential rooted issues.
39:38 --> 39:58 [SPEAKER_01]: the biggest issue with me for Logan Gilbert is his velocity being down so Logan Gilbert's velocity was down as you mentioned last year what'll happen last year yeah got injured it was a four art injury which you know what that sometimes leads to we can go up toward the elbow and luckily that hasn't happened but it is an arm injury
39:59 --> 40:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Now again, Logan Gilbert's fastball from 2025 to 2026 is actually not all that different.
40:06 --> 40:10 [SPEAKER_00]: That year by year turnover has not changed all that much.
40:10 --> 40:13 [SPEAKER_00]: It's changed by like a tenth of a mile an hour.
40:14 --> 40:20 [SPEAKER_00]: If you look from what he was throwing in 2024 until now, it's a little more.
40:20 --> 40:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It's down a mile an hour, which isn't the end all be all, but it is a little bit noticeable.
40:31 --> 40:47 [SPEAKER_01]: the gap I look at is his 24 to 26 because everything about Logan Goverch should be getting back to that 20 24 for him because that's that's the form that's going to make him the most amount of money and that's the form that's going to help the Mariners win the most games.
40:48 --> 40:58 [SPEAKER_01]: While you're talking there I was kind of curious I went and I looked up Logan Goverch's fastball velocity last year by month to see if there was a noticeable dip
40:59 --> 41:17 [SPEAKER_01]: After he came back from injury, there was not, though, to be fair, he might have been, I believe if I remember his quotes correctly, he might have been pitching with that for most of the season last year, which is why he wasn't as efficient early in the year and he had to go on the IL when it eventually the tightness just kind of got to him at that point.
41:19 --> 41:27 [SPEAKER_01]: That is kind of a red flag for me, because in that same stretch, Logan Gilbert, Sliderer has also taken a huge downturn in velocity.
41:27 --> 41:32 [SPEAKER_01]: His slider, in fact, is down two miles an hour on average over that same stretch.
41:32 --> 41:39 [SPEAKER_01]: And this isn't, you know, your standard loopy sweeper that is fine if it's not thrown as hard because it has so much horizontal movement.
41:40 --> 41:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Logan Gilbert Slider's really effective is because he throws it really hard and has this nice tight movement.
41:46 --> 41:51 [SPEAKER_01]: what's important about that is because it plays off of this fastball, it can play off of this cutter as well.
41:52 --> 42:06 [SPEAKER_01]: But this year that pitch is not really, it's with it being down in velocity, that kind of, what is the word our friend pitching energy uses for the, for the, the pitch is like, oh, pitch tunneling.
42:07 --> 42:11 [SPEAKER_01]: The tunneling is not as effective when the pitch is don't look quite as similar.
42:13 --> 42:18 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's also data to back this up because those two pitches have been getting absolutely crushed this season.
42:19 --> 42:28 [SPEAKER_01]: So he's throwing them all softer and they're both getting hammered much more than they've been hammered even back early in Logan's career when he was getting hit harder than almost anyone in baseball.
42:31 --> 42:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And that slider was such a money pitch for him.
42:35 --> 42:38 [SPEAKER_00]: Early in his career, I mean, you want to go all the way back to Logan's rookie year, man.
42:39 --> 42:47 [SPEAKER_00]: His slider was, if I remember right, oh no, no, no, it was the foreseamer that was the really dominant pitch in his rookie year.
42:47 --> 42:54 [SPEAKER_00]: But you go back to 2023, I mean, his slider was unbelievable, 23 and 24.
42:54 --> 42:57 [SPEAKER_00]: His slider was absolutely off the charts.
42:57 --> 42:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Then all of a sudden, the last two years, it's gone away.
43:01 --> 43:16 [SPEAKER_00]: you can't help but wonder if there's some correlation there because the sliders never gotten back to really where it would like anywhere close to where it was in 23 and 24 since the injury happened and again then you look at the splitter which is his other true outpitch
43:17 --> 43:20 [SPEAKER_00]: The splitter this year has still been solid.
43:20 --> 43:23 [SPEAKER_00]: The run value sits slightly in the negative.
43:23 --> 43:29 [SPEAKER_00]: I would also counter that by saying opponents are hitting just 178 against it and they're not slugging against this splitter.
43:29 --> 43:32 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not like his splitter has been totally ineffective.
43:33 --> 43:42 [SPEAKER_00]: But when you actually look at the true strikeout percentage on that pitch and the amount of swing and miss he's getting on that pitch and how often he's putting guys away with that pitch.
43:43 --> 43:43 [SPEAKER_00]: That's down.
43:44 --> 43:47 [SPEAKER_00]: It's down from where it was in 23 and 24.
43:47 --> 43:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's two best seasons.
43:49 --> 44:02 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's not a trend that screams positivity either, because the slider in the splitter are obviously pitches that you have to grip really hard and put a lot of tension on that arm and your elbow and your forearm.
44:04 --> 44:07 [SPEAKER_00]: And those two pitches haven't been the same sense.
44:09 --> 44:14 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're not going to sit here and call Logan Gilbert injured because we don't know that he's still pitching every fifth day.
44:15 --> 44:24 [SPEAKER_01]: And you never know exactly what is going on with someone maybe it's mechanical, maybe it's something mental and Logan Gilbert's head that he still needs to get over.
44:24 --> 44:27 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he's fearing that he's going to get hurt.
44:28 --> 44:34 [SPEAKER_01]: and perhaps why he's just not feeling totally comfortable with his mechanics and with his arm.
44:35 --> 44:42 [SPEAKER_01]: But regardless, it's not leading to a very effective or definitely not as effective as we've seen version of Logan Gouverne.
44:42 --> 44:43 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Logan Gouverne this weekend was pretty good.
44:44 --> 44:51 [SPEAKER_01]: So that version of Logan Gouverne more often would be great, but we're not seeing that version of Logan Gouverne that often.
44:52 --> 44:59 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I'd say the other thing that stood out to me at Logan Gilbert this season is that, I think he's becoming too predictable on first pitches.
44:59 --> 45:01 [SPEAKER_01]: He's getting crushed on first pitches.
45:01 --> 45:04 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, this comes back to the slider and the fastball.
45:05 --> 45:10 [SPEAKER_01]: The slider and the fastball are both getting slugged at an over 800 clip on the first pitch.
45:11 --> 45:16 [SPEAKER_01]: So when he's thrown it in there first pitch of an iPad, guys are absolutely teeing off on Logan Gilbert.
45:17 --> 45:22 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's been better at that in his career, especially in 2024, where you're just become less predictable.
45:22 --> 45:25 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Logan Gilbert in that season was a junk baller.
45:25 --> 45:33 [SPEAKER_01]: He could throw anything up to the plate and you know it was incredibly nasty, but teams and players are clearly dialing in on that and it's not been as effective for Logan Gilbert.
45:34 --> 45:40 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like there's some pitch quality conversation with Logan Gilbert that is a reason why he's not being as effective.
45:41 --> 45:47 [SPEAKER_01]: If you were to ask me personally, what exactly that is, I don't really think I could tell you that I wouldn't say that's my specialty.
45:47 --> 45:56 [SPEAKER_01]: That's something like a Joe Doyle or Jason Churchill or if you happened to run into Jerry DiPoto at the supermarket and he could tell you.
45:56 --> 46:01 [SPEAKER_00]: Or Pete Woodworth or Trent Blank, but they might not want to
46:02 --> 46:25 [SPEAKER_00]: they'll just why Logan Gilbert's stuff right right so as a result of the struggles with the first pitch of the batter or the first pitch of it at that because you're right he is getting hit very very hard in those situations in fact if people want the exact splits I have on early I think I have them the first pitch on OO counts for Logan Gilbert this year
46:27 --> 46:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Opponents are hitting 438 against them.
46:30 --> 46:31 [SPEAKER_00]: They're OPSing 1205.
46:32 --> 46:34 [SPEAKER_00]: That is loud contact.
46:34 --> 46:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, to be fair, Jeff Passett was on Brock and saw talking about some of the home run issues that Logan's had earlier in the year, because his home run rate is also up a little bit.
46:44 --> 46:45 [SPEAKER_00]: It's up a little bit from last year.
46:45 --> 46:49 [SPEAKER_00]: It is up somewhat noticeably from again, 23 and 24.
46:51 --> 47:01 [SPEAKER_00]: where Hassan said he's not that worried about Logan Gilbert giving up home runs because most of the ones he's given up have been pretty middle-middle pitches.
47:01 --> 47:04 [SPEAKER_00]: They can't have been true mistakes where it's something Logan can go fix.
47:05 --> 47:07 [SPEAKER_00]: That is a positive, but
47:09 --> 47:11 [SPEAKER_00]: He's only given up a handful or two of home runs this year.
47:12 --> 47:29 [SPEAKER_00]: When you're given up that much loud contact on the first pitch of an abat, and your two best secondaries have been as effective as they've been in years past, certainly the last two years, that's where I'd say more of the red flags or potential red flags get waved, and you say, okay, is this gonna correct itself?
47:29 --> 47:30 [SPEAKER_00]: Is this gonna get better?
47:31 --> 47:34 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to think so, but Logan's also not,
47:35 --> 47:37 [SPEAKER_01]: the smoothest picture in the world.
47:37 --> 47:41 [SPEAKER_01]: He's not a Bryan Wu or a George Kirby, who can always put pitches exactly where they want.
47:41 --> 47:45 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel like that's the type of picture that Logan Gilbert is.
47:45 --> 47:48 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember who was Joe or Jason who talked about this.
47:49 --> 47:51 [SPEAKER_01]: But Logan's got a lot of body that he moves.
47:51 --> 47:54 [SPEAKER_01]: He moves around a lot in his motion.
47:55 --> 48:00 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of room mechanically for that to get out of whack and for the ball not to go where he wants.
48:00 --> 48:02 [SPEAKER_01]: AK down the middle.
48:02 --> 48:09 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, and it could also lead to him not being able to put guys away, which is a problem he had with efficiency last year.
48:10 --> 48:10 [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
48:11 --> 48:25 [SPEAKER_00]: The one other thing I'll note with Logan, who, by the way, could very well just turn around in the second half and figure this all out, or as soon as in June, and this all gets put behind us, and I hope that is what happens, because again, like we love Logan.
48:25 --> 48:29 [SPEAKER_00]: Logan's one of our favorite guys on the team, like we don't want to be having conversations like this.
48:29 --> 48:32 [SPEAKER_00]: We want to talk about Logan Gilbert dominating, so does everybody in the fan base.
48:34 --> 48:52 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, like, let's be clear, Logan Gilbert's numbers for the year not awful by any stretch right now his F4 sits at about 0.7 so if you were to pro right that Logan Gilbert would be close to about a two and a half or season at the end of the year that's not a bad year that's also not what we expect out of Logan Gilbert.
48:52 --> 49:02 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we expect a little bit more and honestly part of the reason I don't I don't think it's a big deal to have this conversation is because well one that the numbers are what they are.
49:03 --> 49:05 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm sure no, I'm sure Logan himself knows all this.
49:05 --> 49:08 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure Logan knows that he can throw a lot better than this.
49:08 --> 49:11 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure he's working his tail off to be throwing better than this.
49:12 --> 49:15 [SPEAKER_00]: So like Logan knows he can be doing more to help the team.
49:16 --> 49:20 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're just talking through some similar points.
49:21 --> 49:22 [SPEAKER_00]: I will say that's with Logan.
49:22 --> 49:23 [SPEAKER_00]: Who again, may turn this all around.
49:23 --> 49:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's hope he does.
49:26 --> 49:30 [SPEAKER_00]: His home road splits are wild, like just wild.
49:31 --> 49:32 [SPEAKER_00]: Check this out for the year.
49:33 --> 49:59 [SPEAKER_00]: Logan Gilbert for the season has a five six seven year A at home what is he are all those is he or no no his he are on the road is one nineteen his he are at home is five six seven I'm not reading that backwards right now he's getting crushed in t-mobile park and dominating everywhere else that can't possibly keep up right
50:00 --> 50:01 [SPEAKER_01]: No, it can't.
50:01 --> 50:03 [SPEAKER_01]: That kind of seems to want you to me.
50:04 --> 50:10 [SPEAKER_01]: That's also a stat you can look and say, oh my god, that looks so crazy because it's not even Junior.
50:11 --> 50:12 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's made one.
50:12 --> 50:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Four starts at home.
50:14 --> 50:15 [SPEAKER_00]: Five.
50:15 --> 50:16 [SPEAKER_00]: He's made 11 total starts.
50:17 --> 50:18 [SPEAKER_00]: So he has made seven at home.
50:18 --> 50:19 [SPEAKER_00]: He's made four on the road.
50:20 --> 50:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not a crazy sample, but again, we are a third of the way through the season.
50:24 --> 50:26 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not the entire sample.
50:27 --> 50:31 [SPEAKER_00]: But it is a little odd to see as ERA is getting close to six at home, right?
50:31 --> 50:32 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's near one on the road.
50:32 --> 50:33 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
50:34 --> 50:34 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
50:35 --> 50:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Usually we're used to the opposite.
50:37 --> 50:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, a Mariners pitcher is a one-ERA at home, and they're getting pulverized on the road.
50:41 --> 50:43 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's gonna have to fix itself.
50:44 --> 50:46 [SPEAKER_00]: Right now, I don't weirdly the opposite with Logan.
50:46 --> 50:47 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure that'll correct itself.
50:48 --> 50:54 [SPEAKER_01]: That looks like a stat that you'd say, okay, that is crazy, but I don't think that's actually a reflection of Logan Gilbert.
50:55 --> 50:57 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm just saying it's worth like your reading room.
50:58 --> 51:00 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not that Logan Gilbert has a T-Mobile park problem.
51:01 --> 51:05 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying is we're sitting here evaluating Logan season through a third of the way of 2026.
51:05 --> 51:08 [SPEAKER_00]: It is kind of wild.
51:08 --> 51:12 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, it'll probably correct itself, but you're not used to seeing that.
51:13 --> 51:16 [SPEAKER_01]: It's the the starts that have been bad have been at T-Mobile Park.
51:17 --> 51:17 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what it is.
51:18 --> 51:18 [SPEAKER_01]: Not that.
51:18 --> 51:20 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he can't pitch the T-Mobile Park.
51:20 --> 51:22 [SPEAKER_00]: No, and that again, that's that's not what I'm saying.
51:23 --> 51:23 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not what I'm saying.
51:23 --> 51:23 [SPEAKER_01]: I know.
51:25 --> 51:26 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying through seven starts.
51:26 --> 51:29 [SPEAKER_00]: It is kind of wild to look at those two home road splits on paper and see.
51:30 --> 51:31 [SPEAKER_00]: the difference.
51:31 --> 51:43 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, the bad starts have coming home, but has there been a point that through all this Logan Gilbert discussion and watching him about his extension?
51:44 --> 51:47 [SPEAKER_00]: Has there been any thoughts about it?
51:47 --> 51:51 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, no, because it's still ranks in the 100th percentile of the league.
51:53 --> 51:54 [SPEAKER_00]: That what?
51:55 --> 51:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Extension, right?
51:57 --> 51:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, I'm in his contract.
52:00 --> 52:03 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, like I thought you meant extension on the mound.
52:03 --> 52:06 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the one thing he's always there at the top of the league with.
52:07 --> 52:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, his contract extension.
52:09 --> 52:09 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
52:09 --> 52:16 [SPEAKER_00]: So you're talking about if that could be in Logan Gilbert's mind at all or in your mind.
52:17 --> 52:19 [SPEAKER_01]: As you're watching him pitch and we've watched now.
52:20 --> 52:25 [SPEAKER_01]: Since his breakout season, a season and a half of Logan Gilbert being very inconsistent.
52:26 --> 52:30 [SPEAKER_01]: And it ended up just keeps going start after start after start.
52:30 --> 52:35 [SPEAKER_01]: Like when we're talking about this idea preseason and we said, we want the Mariners to really extend Logan Gilbert right now.
52:36 --> 52:42 [SPEAKER_01]: What the Mariners might have wanted to see was you've had this one unbelievable season.
52:42 --> 52:43 [SPEAKER_01]: You're asking for a lot of money.
52:44 --> 52:46 [SPEAKER_01]: You're coming off an forearm injury last year.
52:47 --> 52:48 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's see how you look.
52:49 --> 52:50 [SPEAKER_01]: We want to see consistency.
52:50 --> 52:52 [SPEAKER_01]: We want to see good stuff.
52:52 --> 52:56 [SPEAKER_01]: And so for the season we've seen velocity tick down.
52:56 --> 52:59 [SPEAKER_01]: We've seen home run issues.
53:00 --> 53:02 [SPEAKER_01]: And we've seen no assurance.
53:02 --> 53:10 [SPEAKER_01]: In my opinion that if the Mariners deemed health as higher velocity better stuff, that they have seen that.
53:13 --> 53:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, the VLO between 25 and 26 is in all that different, at least with the fastball.
53:18 --> 53:22 [SPEAKER_00]: But like we talked about with the slider in the two-year sample, that has come down.
53:23 --> 53:25 [SPEAKER_00]: So that is something to take note of, because that's real.
53:26 --> 53:30 [SPEAKER_00]: You're right, that slider is, that slider's tight of Logan, so it's got to be thrown hard.
53:31 --> 53:36 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I would guess if not even just about the Mariners.
53:36 --> 53:37 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just talk about from our perspective.
53:38 --> 53:49 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would like to see Logan Gilbert throw the ball a little bit better over a somewhat prolonged period before committing a ton of money to him.
53:49 --> 53:54 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, like we love Logan, like just from a personal standpoint, love the C.M.
53:54 --> 53:55 [SPEAKER_00]: and Seattle's whole career.
53:55 --> 53:56 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure Calwood too.
53:56 --> 53:57 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure most of his teammates would.
53:59 --> 54:05 [SPEAKER_00]: And if Logan Gilbert goes through a two, two and a half month stretch here where he puts this all behind them and he's just dominating.
54:07 --> 54:17 [SPEAKER_00]: the slider is missing that's a bunch again and he's not getting knocked around for a bunch of homers and he is being less predictable especially early in counts.
54:17 --> 54:18 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's still extended.
54:18 --> 54:22 [SPEAKER_00]: And if he can prove that he can put this behind him, I'd still extend him.
54:22 --> 54:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Right now is we're sitting here this second.
54:24 --> 54:26 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I need to see a little more.
54:27 --> 54:29 [SPEAKER_01]: It depends on the price for the Mariners.
54:29 --> 54:32 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I was curious we keep throwing out the Dillon Seas comp.
54:32 --> 54:34 [SPEAKER_01]: So I went and looked at Dillon Seas' seasons.
54:35 --> 54:40 [SPEAKER_01]: If Logan's gonna use that as a benchmark, I don't think he can.
54:40 --> 54:45 [SPEAKER_01]: Because Dillon Seas had three, four win seasons before he hit free agency.
54:46 --> 54:46 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
54:46 --> 54:47 [SPEAKER_01]: Logan Gilbert is one.
54:49 --> 54:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Although, it only takes one year.
54:50 --> 54:55 [SPEAKER_00]: Floating gives us some doubt next year and puts up a six win season.
54:55 --> 54:56 [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to get a lot of money.
54:57 --> 54:58 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, 100%.
54:58 --> 55:01 [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe that's what Logan would wait for now at this point.
55:02 --> 55:08 [SPEAKER_01]: Because he's like, at the Mariners number is much lower now because they're a little more concerned about my long-term health.
55:09 --> 55:18 [SPEAKER_01]: If they're going to commit all this money to me, why don't I go reset the market higher and I will get a better number next year in my walk here?
55:20 --> 55:25 [SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned on Monday's podcast, Logan Gilbert's stock has never been lower than it is right now.
55:26 --> 55:30 [SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't have the years and hasn't been an elite starting pitcher in a year and a half.
55:31 --> 55:33 [SPEAKER_01]: So he knows that, too.
55:34 --> 55:35 [SPEAKER_01]: It can only go up from here, I think.
55:36 --> 55:36 [SPEAKER_00]: A great.
55:38 --> 55:41 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's hope for the Mariners and for Logan's sake and for everybody in the fan base is sake.
55:41 --> 55:42 [SPEAKER_00]: It does go up from here.
55:42 --> 55:43 [SPEAKER_00]: And he just puts this all behind him.
55:44 --> 55:50 [SPEAKER_00]: Because again, to wrap up this entire conversation, Logan Gilbert's numbers for the year are not awful by any stretch.
55:50 --> 55:51 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not even bad.
55:51 --> 55:54 [SPEAKER_00]: They're just not what we're used to seeing at a Logan Gilbert.
55:54 --> 56:02 [SPEAKER_00]: For a guy that started opening day and was projected to be the number one guy in your rotation, you want a little more form.
56:02 --> 56:03 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, Logan knows that.
56:03 --> 56:06 [SPEAKER_00]: Logan knows he can give this team more than he's given him right now.
56:08 --> 56:09 [SPEAKER_00]: but we just gotta go out and see it.
56:09 --> 56:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And hopefully he just puts us behind him and hopefully he peaks at the exact right time when they're gonna need him the most, which is down the stretch.
56:16 --> 56:19 [SPEAKER_00]: So hopefully as the summer months get going here, Logan Gilbert starts to heat up.
56:21 --> 56:24 [SPEAKER_00]: Alright, I think that just about wraps up this edition of the Marine Lair podcast.
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56:58 --> 57:03 [SPEAKER_00]: That's TJ, I'm Lyle, as always, we thank you guys for tuning in and talk to you soon.