Episode 475: Is The Mariners Managerial Job Desirable?

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number 475 of the Marine Layer podcast. We have some breaking news regarding the Mariners managerial search. We also have a new candidate to talk about that we weren't aware of last week in Jason Kanzler. 00:00:12 Speaker 2: Reminder to you guys before we get going, just make sure you go download these podcast episodes if you're listening and please go leave that written review and leave it five stars when you do so. 00:00:21 Speaker 1: It helps a ton. Hit the subscribe button on YouTube. 00:00:23 Speaker 2: You can also check out our website, marinelayerpod.com, which has everything at it, including all this merch, which we're wearing right now. Get yourself some as the fall season's getting into full swing. And check us out across all social media platforms at MarineLayerPod. 00:00:37 Speaker 1: Let's get it rolling. And we welcome you to this episode of the MarineLayer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network. Recording here on Sunday evening, October 25th, live from the event center at Emerald Queen Casino. As you can see behind us, what you can't see on the other side of the camera is a now empty and quiet event center where we just watched the Seahawks beat the Chiefs on Sunday night football. Looked like an electric atmosphere in the stadium. So that was one positive to the night. And it was obviously this place was obviously full of Seahawks fans and like everyone, everyone was like really fired up. Do you know what wasn't like that tonight? It looked like T-Mobile Park because there was a Chiefs watch party held at T-Mobile Park tonight that some that some fan thank you to that fan for tweeting out the photo with the, you know, the red carpet of red and yellow balloons and like 50 Chiefs fans that bought out a private event on the at the pen. 00:01:48 Speaker 2: What do we even say? Like, what do you want us to say? Does it look as ridiculous as it seems? 00:01:53 Speaker 3: Yes. 00:01:54 Speaker 1: Like in the grand scheme of things. Is it the most important thing in the world? No. But, like, because it's the Mariners, it's hilarious that that information got out. 00:02:03 Speaker 2: Well, maybe they're going to use that private event to fund some extra cash to pay their managers, since we hear the Mariners don't pay their coaches all that well. 00:02:09 Speaker 1: Yeah, congratulations, Joe Espada. Now, instead of exactly $ 1 million, you're going to make $ 1, 005, 000. Congratulations. 00:02:21 Speaker 2: I mean, we're just sitting here at the EQC, and TJ is right. We were hosting the event tonight. We were giving out some prizes. We were giving out some free play at the casino. Met a bunch of podcast fans here, which was great. The event was great. We're sitting here in the middle of this game, and yet again, a Sunday night football game featuring a Seahawks team that we're just trying to sit down and watch for three hours is interrupted by multiple pieces of Mariners news. One is about a Chiefs watch party inside T-Mobile Park. 00:02:51 Speaker 1: Like, why not a Seahawks watch party? Is it the most important thing in the world? No, but again, because it's the Mariners game, And they, of course, are just having their most disappointing season ever. And people are like, all right, I'm going to move on. I'm going to focus on the Seahawks. We have this huge Sunday night game. And then all of a sudden, like, the team across the street is decked out in red and gold. People are like, if you went up to a Mariner fan and showed them this, they'd probably be like, what? What is that? Again, it's just like, it's just dumb, right? And it just doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be right. That's the key word. It doesn't have to happen. 00:03:30 Speaker 2: Right. 00:03:31 Speaker 1: Like there, there is a difference between the Seahawks selling tickets that chiefs fans buy and then renting out your patio to a chiefs watch party. I don't know. It just, it looks a little ridiculous in the grand scheme of things. So, you know, there's a lot of cross posting between the, The two franchises, oh, like, good luck here, good luck there, which they totally should do. And then again, there's, like, two giant Chiefs logos up on the big board in T-Mobile Park. Like, on the Jumbotron. On the Jumbotron. Like, ugh. So they were in the DJ Plano section? Yeah, they were. That's where he performed. Right. Yeah. Did he, did they rent him out, too? Doesn't seem like it. Well, no, he's in Tokyo. 00:04:12 Speaker 2: I was going to say, I think I saw Julio's taking a trip to Japan, but it is the DJ Plano section. 00:04:16 Speaker 1: It is. Yeah, it is. 00:04:18 Speaker 2: Um, should we talk about, well, aside from the Seahawks getting a really nice win on Sunday Night Football, which was fun, and Ken Walker kind of being silenced, I will say. Should we talk about some Mariners news? 00:04:29 Speaker 1: Well, the other bit of Mariners news that you mentioned is that Rocco Baldelli is now withdrawing from Mariners managerial consideration. And I'm like, see that news? I'm like, whoa. This is the real news of the podcast. 00:04:42 Speaker 2: Again, we just spent a couple minutes on a dumb story. This is a story that's actually noteworthy because it pertains to the Mariners' next manager, now lack thereof. If you were to ask me a few days ago, I would have told you that my bet was on Rocco Baldelli. 00:04:57 Speaker 1: To be the next manager of the Mariners. 00:04:58 Speaker 2: Because it feels to us, and also talking to some people who do have a feel on the situation and people who we certainly trust with their information... it felt like the three names that were out there publicly were legit and were the final three names. Rocco Baldelli, Joe Espada, and Jason Kanzler, who we haven't talked about on a podcast episode yet because we were in Milwaukee when that news came out. We'll talk about him here a little bit later, and maybe we'll recap our trip to Milwaukee a little bit because we had some fun. 00:05:23 Speaker 1: But I will say that. 00:05:27 Speaker 2: Not only did we think Rocco was probably going to be the next manager, but Adam Jude's also reporting here on Sunday night that– Per his reporting, the Mariners considered Baldelli the frontrunner. A frontrunner. Baldelli was considered. No, I think he was considered the front runner. A front runner. Adam said a front runner. Well, okay, there's only three candidates left, so yes, he is. 00:05:48 Speaker 1: A front runner. So he was very heavily being considered for the position, and I was ready to come here on this podcast, having all the information we know about the three finalists, and Adam reporting that the Mariners want to hire a manager within the next seven to ten days, that if I were going to pick one of these guys, it would have been Rocco Baldelli. But now the Mariners can't pick Rocco Baldelli. Now, Adam also notes that Rocco Baldelli has three young kids and has roots in Florida. which makes things very difficult. It does. 00:06:14 Speaker 2: I'm going to get to a different point here in a minute, but we're just not ever going to know what the exact reason is. Could that truly be the reason? And Baldelli doesn't want to move all the way across the country. 00:06:24 Speaker 1: Sure. 00:06:25 Speaker 2: But don't you think they would have thought about that before he became a near finalist for this job? 00:06:29 Speaker 1: Like if he. 00:06:30 Speaker 2: Really wasn't interested, don't you think he would have told them a while back? Hey guys, like it, I just don't want to relocate that far. 00:06:37 Speaker 1: Well, sometimes it, Takes the seriousness of being interviewed for a job multiple times for it to set in and say, is this the right decision for me? And for someone like Rocco, who, again, has already been a manager, he has a front office job with the Dodgers that it sounds like he can be pretty flexible with. given that he can live in Florida with his kids while the team he works for is in L.A. Yeah, it's like Raul. Yeah, it's just like for something like that, it needs to be a more perfect scenario. And he will always have being an MLB manager on his resume. So when he does want to go back into managing and he's ready to put his foot forward and do it, he has that to get him an interview. Yeah, he does. So therefore... Again, if this isn't the most desirable job for him, then he doesn't have to take it. No. 00:07:26 Speaker 2: I'm just still a little surprised. Oh, and here's TJ coughing. That was a theme of our trip to Milwaukee. 00:07:30 Speaker 1: I tried. 00:07:31 Speaker 2: I will say, if any of our friends from ASU are listening to this, they know. But when I first met TJ, a little quick side story. The man could never stop coughing. Like basically up until COVID started, it was like every time you were around him, whether he was sick or not, the man could not stop coughing. Now that's finally gone away in his life. But the last few days I've spent with him on this trip to Milwaukee where he's been battling a cold, I mean, it's like we're back in college where it's every 60 seconds he's coughing up a storm. 00:08:01 Speaker 1: Well, I'm at a freaking wedding on the East Coast. I get home and then I get sick only for us to be like, oh, we're going to Milwaukee in five days. I'm like, crap. Well, I need to try and recover as fast as possible. Clearly did not work. And then I have to get on a plane, which you can imagine doesn't make sickness any better. And yeah, and then we're working our asses off for two days. Dude. 00:08:21 Speaker 2: Again, we can maybe get to that a little bit later because we did have some fun on the trip. I was just going to say that we once took a decently long car ride, a few of our friends. I think we were going from Arizona to L.A. when we were in school, and I think one of our friends counted 100 times TJ coughed in the car. 00:08:35 Speaker 1: Again, back before when he wasn't sick. Sometimes you just got to clear your throat. Apparently. 00:08:40 Speaker 2: Anyway, Rocco Baldelli, this makes things pretty interesting because, again, I thought if you were to ask me at this point a few days ago, Who do I think the next manager is going to be? 00:08:52 Speaker 1: I thought it was going to be Rocco. I did. 00:08:54 Speaker 2: Now things feel up in limbo because now all of a sudden, if the reporting out there is right, and to our knowledge it is, and from people we've talked to it is, from our understanding, this is now down to Joe Espada and Jason Kanzler unless there's some mystery name out there that hasn't been leaked. 00:09:10 Speaker 1: There might be another one. If one of their top options is off the board, I'm going to guess they need someone else to consider here. 00:09:17 Speaker 2: Sure. Now, what we'd heard about Rocco is he did a lot of things really well. I think his personality was what they wanted. I don't think they questioned that he had the right experience and had made the playoffs and would likely gel with the players. There are some things, again, over the last few days that we've heard from talking to some people that were qualities of Rocco's that maybe didn't best mold with the Mariners. 00:09:38 Speaker 1: Maybe didn't fully control the seat of being a manager. Yeah, at points. 00:09:42 Speaker 2: And again, this is not at the level of the last guy. 00:09:45 Speaker 1: Let's be very clear. Nothing like that. 00:09:47 Speaker 3: But. 00:09:48 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there were some traits that maybe had them a little bit concerned. Not concerned to the point where they weren't going to hire him. But again, with any of these managers, it's unlikely that every single box gets checked. And it sounds like Rocco is in that same boat, just like these other candidates they're probably looking at, where they do some things well and there's some things that are a bit to be desired. Where I still think, having said all that, he was probably the guy in my mind that had the best chance to get the job, but now all of a sudden this gets really interesting. 00:10:17 Speaker 1: And it's... surprising from the outside for people who are not like totally dialed in on Rocco Baldelli that here a week out, like one of their front runners takes his name out of consideration. There's now been a few names that have been taken out of consideration for the Mariners. It came out last week while we were in Milwaukee that all of a sudden Stephen votes name who'd we, we had ruled out popped right back up again. And we're like, okay, I mean, there are people talking about this again. And this came from Cleveland's side, not from the Mariners' side. It came from Cleveland's side. But then Steven Vogt was asked about it in his end-of-season press conference, and he essentially shut it down. 00:10:57 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it got a little blown out of proportion by no fault of even the guy who was out there talking about it in Anthony Kastrovitz, who, by the way, is a great reporter and does great work. And Castrovin said on Cleveland Sports Radio, look, I hope this doesn't get taken out of context, but if you were to ask me why I think there could be a chance why Vogt might leave, because that was essentially the question, is why could Vogt leave? It's because, yes, his family lives in Seattle and he has ties there and maybe there'd be interest there with the opening. Castrovin's never reported that, oh, yeah, I think Vogt's going to leave. But then some of the aggregate accounts start tweeting it out and it starts to get some traction and then people are talking about it. And then Vogt's asked about it, and he said, no, look, it would be great to be closer to my family, but I am dedicated to Cleveland. 00:11:42 Speaker 1: I am here in Cleveland, and I'm staying. So I don't know if it was ever real reporting. 00:11:47 Speaker 2: It was just a little bit of speculation, which is why we never spent extensive time on it, because I never really believed it was going to happen, and it's not. 00:11:53 Speaker 1: Well, it also felt obvious, where it's like, if Steven Vogt is available and he wants to be the Mariners' manager, then you should just hire him. He'd be the guy. 00:12:00 Speaker 2: That's the home run hire, and they're not going to get him. But that would have been the home run hire where I think everybody's happy. He checks just about every box. He's won manager of the year twice. He took the lowest payroll team in the league to the ALCS. Yeah, that's the home run hire. But we never really thought he was going to be available, and he's not. 00:12:19 Speaker 1: So is this an overreaction or underreaction that potential candidates could be hesitant about taking this job? 00:12:27 Speaker 2: I mean, my answer to this is yes, and I have a take on this if we want to get into this discussion now. 00:12:32 Speaker 1: Sure. 00:12:32 Speaker 2: In terms of Rocco Baldelli backing out of the job and now there being one less candidate available who the Mariners were very clearly interested in. Again, we'll never know the exact reason Rocco Baldelli decided not to take the job. Maybe it is family. Maybe it's not. But I do have to sit and wonder. Is this Mariners job actually desirable? And here's what I mean by that. I understand they have a pitching staff that's really talented and they have Cal and they have Julio and they have Naylor and they have a core of this roster that is fully in place. 00:13:05 Speaker 1: I get it. 00:13:06 Speaker 2: And that's what the Mariners have been spinning publicly for why their job is desirable. 00:13:10 Speaker 1: But is it? 00:13:12 Speaker 2: Because if you're a manager looking from the outside in or you're a candidate looking from the outside in, you know either from your own research or from what people in your ear, these guys' agents are telling them, is you better make the playoffs in year one because if you don't, this front office is likely getting gutted and you're a lame duck along with it. Whether it's your fault or not, you're probably only lasting one year. Now, whether that's fair or not, if you're a candidate looking from the outside in at this job, Do you not say to yourself, look, I don't really like the idea of having little to no security if, for whatever reason, say a bunch of guys get injured and we don't win in this first season. If you're a guy from the outside looking in, between these– Between the Mariners not paying their coaches well and the pressure to have to win in your very first season with no ifs, ands, or buts, maybe you look around and say, I'm going to wait for a different job to open up. I don't want to take this job. I do have my questions about how desirable this job is. In spite of having a good team on paper, everything else surrounding it, including the potential job security of this front office who's tasked with hiring this manager, is going to be a make or break for a lot of these guys because you're seeing candidates back out. 00:14:24 Speaker 1: I still think this is a good job because there's a couple concerns when you bring up a couple of points on why someone wouldn't consider the Mariners job. The thinking is, if you don't make the playoffs in year one, you're going to get fired. Okay, but in my opinion, if you can't make the playoffs with this roster, then you shouldn't be the manager of this team because that's what we just had with the last manager. He was not a good enough manager to take a situation that was not perfect and make the playoffs. and therefore the Mariners flopped and they won 76 games. You need to hire a manager who can take a roster that is clearly the best roster in the division by a sizable amount and make the postseason, win the division, win 86 games this past season, and you win the division by five games. So if you can't make the playoffs in your first season, then maybe you aren't the guy for the Mariners manager. And the other thing that says to me is confidence. You know who wasn't confident, Lyle? You're going to say Dan Wilson. Dan Wilson. There's nothing Dan Wilson said had any sort of confidence behind it. Assurance that he was confident in his decisions or his thought process of what he was doing. You need confidence to come into this job and say, yeah, I am going to make the playoffs with this team. Like, no, I don't know. Yeah, you never know. Sometimes things happen. Like, That's not the kind of mentality this team needs. In a season that you and I both classify as must win, must win, because as you said, everyone's going to lose their job if they miss the playoffs again. Absolutely true. Okay. Then there should be someone in the dugout who's like, there's no, we'll see, or we got to trust our process. Sometimes it doesn't work out. Like, no, you need players. to have that confidence that you will make the playoffs. Otherwise, I'm just like, I'm going to be a little turned off about a manager like this. 00:16:15 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sorry, but my take on this is, even if you are confident and you're looking around at the potential jobs and you see a Mariner's job that has the potential for a one-year term because of the front office, or Houston, who you know you're going to get more leash with because of a new front office, and you look around and say, okay, we still have Jordan Alvarez and we still have pieces that can work, or Because we still have Jordan Alvarez, and we still have guys like Jeremy Pena, even though he's getting close to free agency. And we still have young pitchers like Hunter Brown. And we just made the playoffs last year, and we're going to be in a weak division. Why are you not looking around and saying, look, I'm going to get better tenure with that job and better pay with that job. Why am I not taking that job? 00:16:59 Speaker 1: Are you sure that they're going to get better pay? If they're hiring a first-time manager, are you sure it's going to be better? I mean. 00:17:04 Speaker 2: I don't know because these things aren't perfectly reported, but the reports of the Mariners don't pay their coaches well. 00:17:09 Speaker 1: Right, but they're not last. They're not last, but... If the Astros hire a first-time manager, I don't think they would be making more than what the Mariners would be offering them. 00:17:18 Speaker 2: If you were Rocco Baldelli, hypothetically, what makes you want the Mariners' job over the Astros' job? Say he is confident. Because of all the players on the roster, that's why. Correct, but if something goes wrong and Cal has another oblique problem or Julio's banged up a lot of the year, unfortunately, say one of these important pitchers gets Tommy John and they miss the playoffs and then you're done. Rather than with a new front office in Houston where you know you're starting fresh or even a new situation in Anaheim where you know you're starting fresh and you have more time. If you are a candidate, again, you might be confident, but if you look at your own benefit in your own job security, you're looking at two other jobs that probably have more job. 00:17:58 Speaker 1: Security than the Mariners right now. I would only think of this as a red flag. if Rocco Baldelli was now only considering the Astros and Angels over the Mariners? Because what you said, I mean, it doesn't check out for Rocco. He's just not going to manage. 00:18:12 Speaker 2: Well, we'll see. The Astros are in Florida for spring training. He withdrew his name from the Mariners' job. He hasn't withdrawn his name, period. 00:18:19 Speaker 1: But he's never been floated as a candidate for the Astros or for the Angels. 00:18:24 Speaker 2: Not for the Angels, and I doubt he takes the Angels job because, again, it's very far west and there's spring trainings in Arizona. But we haven't seen a lot of candidates, period, floated yet for the Astros job. What if Rocco takes the Astros job? But if he doesn't, then the point isn't, like, relevant. All I'm saying is there are a lot of candidates who may have turned this job down that we didn't even hear about. And could the reasoning be they're poorly paid and there is the knowledge that if you don't win in your first year, you're done? 00:18:54 Speaker 1: I just don't like that line of thinking. It's true. But again, a competent manager should be able to win with this team and win this division. And anyone should see that. Correct. But if you're looking at your own job security... If you're more worried about your own job security than winning, then you probably shouldn't manage this team. Again... What is the priority? What is the priority? 00:19:19 Speaker 2: Look, the priority is to win, but... What if you think you can win in Houston in year two or year three? 00:19:24 Speaker 1: No, you can't. No, you can't. You and I both know you can't. Any smart manager will look at that roster and say, absolutely not. Their farm system stinks. Their big league roster stinks. Their owner, he's a good owner, but he medals a lot. And Jeff Bagwell is awful in that front office, who constantly makes them worse over and over and over again. and you will talk to Astros people and they will tell you that exact same thing. The Astros are on a downward trend. Everyone can see that. If you are taking that job over the Mariners job, that's solely because you care about yourself and being a tenured manager, to which you'll probably eventually be fired when your teams miss the playoffs, because you have incompetent people around you running things. Or you can go to the Angels who are in a very similar spot with a bad big league roster, a bad farm system, an unproven major league owner, and a lot of uncertainty. And maybe they decide to let go of you before they move into their new stadium. Anything's possible. You can draw ifs, ands, or buts with anybody. If there was a candidate that came to me and told me, TJ, I'm not taking the Mariners job because I'm worried I'm going to get fired after year one. I'll be like, all right, goodbye. 00:20:44 Speaker 2: Like, you're not the guy. I look at this like a free agent. Not every player that's a free agent signs with the best team. If you know you're going to get a longer deal and more security with somebody else, you take it. 00:20:56 Speaker 1: Remember, these guys have agents. They have people in. 00:20:58 Speaker 2: Their ear, like, not managing them, but certainly advising them on where their best potential spots could be. 00:21:05 Speaker 1: Maybe it's Seattle. It's not the same. There's just not the same number of jobs available. There's not. Juan Soto, if he wanted to, could sign with all 30 teams. If he wanted to. 00:21:15 Speaker 3: Sure. 00:21:17 Speaker 1: But managers have 30 jobs. There are 30 jobs available. And one of them may come open again next year if they miss the playoffs. Yeah. But there's also consideration that people can objectively look at the situation and not fire you. What if you're really good at your job? What if you have rave reviews? What if you have... What if you have a great PR across the league on how you do as a manager? 00:21:40 Speaker 2: That would be great. That would be great, and I hope these final candidates do. My only question now is, again, unless there's other names that we're not hearing about, the consensus seems to be, and look, we don't have every bit of information because ultimately these teams inside the walls of these franchises, like the Mariners, are going to know more than we do, but it just feels like the final couple candidates aren't exactly like, firing anybody up, and maybe managers just don't do that, but I just have to wonder if there are better candidates out there that could be turning down these positions because of the situation, the pay, and the potential short shelf life. Let's take our guy Kai Correa, for example, right? I'm just going to use this as an example. From how it seems, unless this is flying under the radar, and I hope it is because Kai's been our top choice forever now. 00:22:30 Speaker 1: But look at Kai Correa, who. 00:22:32 Speaker 2: we don't know for sure, but we are going to assume with the way the Mets operate, he is likely paid well to be the bench coach. Number one, if he is not getting a major financial upgrade to take a manager's job all the way across the country from Queens, he might look around and say, look, I'm not going to leave for lateral pay. Andy Green and him reportedly have a great relationship. Yeah. I'm going to stay in New York when a different manager's job comes open one day. I can take that because again, Kai's going to manage one day. I like, I can almost say that for a, Clear, hard fact. At some point, Kai is going to manage. But if you're him looking at the Mariners job and you say, okay, it's not better pay. It's very similar pay. And there's this expectation that if I don't win in year one, I'll have just moved my whole family across the country to then get let go in one year. You say, okay, I'm going to stay in Queens and be the bench coach with the Mets. Are you sure there's not more candidates saying that exact same thing? 00:23:29 Speaker 1: It's hard to say, but again, if you're paranoid that you are going to lose your job after year one, then I just don't think you have the qualities of what it takes for this team this year. Because everything we complained about with the last manager is like the paranoia that might, if that was a reason for someone, causing the people to turn this job down. Which I just won't take, right? Here's what we can agree on. The situation the Mariners have put themselves in, if that is true, is incredibly silly. And which is why teams will get rid of the GM and the manager at the same time so they can start afresh. 00:24:11 Speaker 2: It's like the Astros. Again, if you're a manager taking that job, you know you're starting fresh. 00:24:15 Speaker 1: Like, if you do really believe that Jerry's good at his job, like Mariners owners, if you really think Jerry's good at his job, then he wouldn't be fired after next season. But, But we know. But yeah, we know that if they miss the playoffs again, it'll be 10 misses in 12 seasons. And that's frankly unacceptable. You can't do that. So let's harken back to a quote that our friend Ryan Divish told us. The Mariners need a vice president of common sense. Correct. This is a scenario here where the Mariners could use that. Yes. Correct. They could. 00:24:53 Speaker 2: And maybe Joe Espada or Jason Kanzler or somebody else ends up being really good. But seeing a guy pull their name from this search who seemed to have a lot of redeeming qualities, maybe not every redeeming quality, but a lot of them. 00:25:07 Speaker 1: Oh, it just makes me sit and wonder. 00:25:09 Speaker 2: I've been stirring on this since the Baldelli news came out and made me just kind of sit and start to think. And I know we don't see this totally eye to eye, but it makes me sit and think, is this job as desirable as we really think? 00:25:24 Speaker 1: This team should make the playoffs no matter who their manager is, as long as they're like a league average manager. Yeah, they should. They should. It will take 87 wins next season to win the division. If this team can't win 87 wins, then you should probably just blow it all up. Don't laugh. I'm serious. I mean, probably, yeah. I'm serious. 00:25:44 Speaker 2: If they miss the playoffs again next year and the division winner has 86 wins or less. 00:25:50 Speaker 1: then this probably isn't the group. No, this is not the group. 00:25:53 Speaker 2: You need to accept there's a few pieces from this team that you keep, and you start looking a whole lot. 00:25:59 Speaker 1: Of other places. A hundred percent. But that's a conversation for next offseason. Interesting point, though, Lyle, about Rocco Baldelli. Before we move on and talk a little bit about Jason Kanzler, since we're here at EQC, as you can see, we're sitting here in the Emerald Queen Events Center. Plenty of events going on at the EQC Events Center, including Patti LaBelle on November 7th, Dwight Yoakam on November 14th. Get your tickets at EmeraldQueen.com. Emerald Queen Casino is the entertainment capital of the Northwest. So if you're here for an event, you can check out those. If you're not here for an event, check out the BetMGM Sportsbook. There is no better place to watch the game with 70 dream seat loungers for premium viewing, dozens of 86-inch TVs, legal wagering on college and pro sports, where you can download the BetEQC app and live wager anywhere on the property. Catch every sport and every play at Emerald Queen Casino. For more details, visit EmeraldQueen.com. Please game responsibly. So Jason Kanzler is the third candidate and the one we have talked about by far the least on this podcast. Not a name I was expecting, but it's not like a person like this has never been hired for a manager position before. I'll say that. 00:27:20 Speaker 2: Sure. If you want to just go through his resume, Jason Kanzler, who was a minor league player. He never made it to the big leagues, but was a minor league player with the Twins and And if you want to look at what he's done since he left his pro playing career, he was a public school teacher for a little bit right after playing. And then once he got back into coaching, he coached in the Cape Cod League in 2017 and 2018. Funny enough, 2018 was one of the years that we were there. We were trying to figure out which team was here. Yeah, I mean, maybe we'll get more information on that soon. I'm going to say maybe Wareham for anybody that follows the Cape League, but... Eventually, if he's hired as the manager, I'm sure we'll find out. But he was there when we were there. Then he got the minor league hitting coordinator job with the Astros in 2019 or one of them eventually worked his way into the major league hitting coordinator role. One of them with the Astros in 2022. So he was part of the coaching staff that helped that team win it all. Then the Cubs hired him ahead of 2024 as the director of player development. So, again, he went from Houston to Chicago, and he was the director of player development. And if those of you are out there that are unfamiliar with that role, that's the role that Andy McKay had with the Mariners before he left to take a coaching job with Cleveland. He was the director of player development. So Kanzler still holds that job to this day at time of recording. That is still his employment position. He is with the Cubs as the director of player development. And he's helped a Cubs farm system that's been pretty good. I mean, they've put out in his time PCA, and he's made it to the big leagues. 00:28:48 Speaker 1: Kate Horton, Michael Bush. Well, I think he got there as PCA made the big leagues the first time. 00:28:53 Speaker 2: Okay, so even aside from him, Kate Horton, Michael Bush, Matt Shaw, there's a few others. So he's done a good job in Chicago in the role he's been in. And he's also only 36 years old. So this is a very young potential hire that is pretty new age minded. He's supposed to be a really smart guy. Very, very insightful. And doesn't have the major league coaching background or the major league managing background. But the hope is this is one of your young up and coming hires who you try to find your Mike McDonald with. 00:29:27 Speaker 1: He's been a minor league coach and he's been a major league coach in the dugout. Absolutely. For those worrying he's only been in the front office, no, he has been in the dugout coaching. Like a lot of the candidates the Mariners have talked about. Rocco Baldelli's working in the front office. right now, right? So there are certainly different paths people take to being manager. Andy McKay is a good comparison. We always heard that Andy McKay wants to manage at some point, and he took a a role in the dugout this year with Cleveland after being in the Mariners front office for quite a while, where he was the director of player development and then an assistant GM. You know who the Mariners hired that used to be an assistant GM? Scott Service. Scott Service was an assistant GM with the Los Angeles Angels before he took the manager job for the Mariners. So something like this is not totally new. If you see a name like this, you might get a little scared. Like, why are the Mariners interviewing someone who just He's a dork with glasses who sits up in the office the whole time. Not necessarily true. Playing fantasy baseball up in a suite. Playing fantasy baseball up in a suite. That's not totally the case with this one. So there's qualifications here. What I'm thinking about ultimately is that if you're asking me if I'm confident in a 36-year-old first-time manager position, With this team, I would say no. I feel like this would be a better hire for a team that's like rebuilding or on its way up with a lot younger players as opposed to what the Mariners are. Well, I'll give you an example. 00:30:57 Speaker 2: It's like when the Nationals last offseason hired Drew Butera. 00:31:03 Speaker 1: Again, TJ just fights through his cough here on the podcast. Thank you, Teej. You should guys show her. I mean, you guys actually you did hear a little bit on the episodes last week. It was way worse. Yeah. 00:31:14 Speaker 2: Anyway, it's more like Drew Butera getting the job with the Nationals, right? Young, up-and-comer, supposed to be very smart. And people in Washington seem to really like Drew Butera. But that's a team that is not expected to win this second. They have pieces in place. They have the James Woods and the C.J. Abrams and the Cade Cavallis. They have pieces, but they're not expected to win this second. So he has time. This is what I start to get at when I say, again, if you're a first-time manager that comes in here, you've got to win in year one. And for a guy that's 36 years old, maybe he does it. Maybe he's the insightful, really analytically driven manager that gets the most out of his players and really hits all the right buttons with his bullpen and pinch hitting decisions and is the right guy for the job. But there's a high ceiling and probably a decently– I'm not going to say low floor because, again, let's be very clear about something. Whoever the Mariners hire is going to be an upgrade. I mean, it's almost not even almost. It's impossible to not find an upgrade after what we just watched in the last two years. But is it the perfect guy for the job? I don't know a ton about Jason Kanzler. There's going to be a lot to be learned if he's hired. But I'd be a little bit skeptical. Like, look at this comparison, right? The Mariners have said they want to hire someone with experience. They said experience is preferred, not required, but preferred. 00:32:38 Speaker 1: Joe Espada has been in a major league dugout since 2010. Started with the Marlins, then the Yankees, then the Astros. It's been a long time. Rocco Baldelli took his first manager job in 2019. Jason Kanzler started coaching professionally, period, in the minor leagues in 2019. That's a pretty seismic gap in experience. Right. 00:33:03 Speaker 2: And the other side of this is, again, we did spend some time the last few days talking to some people, getting some information that we're pretty confident is good, and just on the intel we've picked up, the thing we've heard about Kanzler is, yes, he's very smart, and he is very knowledgeable, and... Again, he's a new age guy, but we also hear he's pretty intense. And again, maybe some people hear that and say, well, great, after the last guy, I want somebody intense. I want somebody to light a fire under these players and rip into them when they don't do something right. 00:33:38 Speaker 1: And I totally get it. 00:33:39 Speaker 2: There's a part of me that wants to see that too after the way the last two years went down. But is it at the expense of losing your clubhouse? That's the only thing you have to think about. Again, this is kind of what we've heard about him. as we've done some digging on this, is Kanzler's pretty intense. And could it get to the point where he could lose a clubhouse? 00:33:58 Speaker 1: Well, I always wonder with a first-time manager without any experience at the age of 36, do you command a clubhouse? Because you would expect the next manager to have a little more control over what's going on in there than Dan Wilson had, who was very much hands-off. It doesn't have to be full Scott service, but you would imagine there is going to be some sort of presence within that clubhouse i i don't know if i feel like a 36 year old first time manager is like a presence what i do think is that um from what we observed he would be the most. 00:34:38 Speaker 3: In sync with the front office i would say well that's not to say espada wouldn't be the thing about espada is like I just don't feel like we've heard a ton of intel on the guy. 00:34:48 Speaker 1: We just know what we know from his time in Houston. Sure. Like, that's just speculation from me. But, you know, you hear a 36-year-old who currently works in the front office and be like, yeah, I mean, that kind of sounds like Jerry DePoto's type. Yeah. 00:35:00 Speaker 2: A young whiz kid with this great knowledge who can be pretty intense. 00:35:05 Speaker 1: Who's intense that might lose a clubhouse. Maybe. I mean, that sounds a little like Jerry DePoto. That does sound a little bit like Jerry DePoto. But it could work if... If Jerry wants to implement his plan and Jerry's plan is good and it works, then maybe this is the guy to execute it because they both think and talk the same. Sure. But again, does it get through to the players? That's a great question. Well, that's for the Mariners to decide, which, I mean, another thing we heard is that Mariners players will be sitting in on some of the conversations that are going on, which I'm going to be honest, I'm not a huge fan of, but I don't get to make a decision on that. I just frankly saw enough of this season and maybe the players just had to say what they had to say during the season for the sake of not making it a story. But lots of Mariners players endorsed a pretty bad culture the Mariners had last year. And yeah, I just don't know if I trust their opinion. Let me be clear. We've said this before. 00:36:08 Speaker 2: We love Logan. Love Logan Gilbert. He's been great with us. He's great with the fans. He's been awesome on the field. 00:36:14 Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong. 00:36:15 Speaker 2: Logan Gilbert's a model staple of the Mariners franchise. I hope they extend him. And yes, you're right. Maybe players feel like they have to diffuse any situation when you're asked tough questions about your manager because if you show any signs of doubt, it becomes a whole big story. 00:36:29 Speaker 1: I get it. 00:36:30 Speaker 2: I just feel like there's a little middle ground between that and saying, I want Dan Wilson to be my manager forever. Maybe not that. How about just, Hey, we respect Dan. We really liked Dan. We appreciate what he's done for us. We really rally around them. Like, isn't there some middle ground between that while not saying, Hey, I want him fired and not giving any like leaks to, Oh, there's problems in the clubhouse. I'm not saying you should, but to the total opposite end of the spectrum where you say, I want this guy to be my manager forever, who I'm not sure had a single good redeeming quality as a big league manager. 00:37:04 Speaker 1: Especially given, like, we're just talking about the sequence of managers where it went, like, too intense under Scott's service. Like, the reports were the players wanted a break. They wanted something different. They wanted a different speed. And then they got Dan Wilson, and it seemed like they really got what they wanted. But what they wanted wasn't actually good enough for them at the end, which, like, now we need to go back in the other direction somehow. This would be more helpful if we had a current Mariners player sitting here to talk to and be honest with us about, about how they felt about last year, but just based on what we can see and what they tell us through the media, then like, then that's just how I feel. 00:37:43 Speaker 2: Well, and this is where I kind of start to wonder in terms of players sitting in on this meeting, right? And sitting in on these meetings with the managers where the reports out there, right? Where they're not going to let the players pick the manager by any means, but their voices will be heard. 00:37:58 Speaker 1: That's the report, right? Sure. The voices will be heard. They don't get say in it, but they're going to listen. 00:38:03 Speaker 2: When you hear that Mariners players are going to be in on these meetings, you would have to assume one. 00:38:07 Speaker 1: Of these players is probably Julio, right? Julio and Cal. I'm guessing it's Julio and Cal Raleigh. And a pitcher. Yeah. Brian. Maybe Brian Wu. I mean, again, with Logan and George getting close. Love Logan, but he's got one year left. Right. 00:38:22 Speaker 2: Again, we don't know exactly, but you would assume Julio and Cal are a couple of those guys. But again, like, especially with Julio, right? It's just how much can you trust a player's opinion? to pick the right manager. I don't know about reports, right? 00:38:37 Speaker 1: Well, also, how is Julio sitting in on these conversations right now? Oh, when he's in Japan? 00:38:44 Speaker 2: Well, maybe the player conversations have already happened. Maybe they've gotten to hear from these guys already. 00:38:48 Speaker 1: That's a fair point. Because we don't know when these things have taken place. Maybe they only get one meeting with them, where they get to sit in, and then otherwise it's like, nope. 00:38:56 Speaker 2: Yeah, that could be right. And again, the Mariners, by all reports, are trying to make a decision by about Halloween. So a lot of these interviews may have already happened. But back to my point. From everything we heard, Julio and Scott's service apparently were not kumbaya. Julio was not the biggest service fan. And I'm guessing a part of that reason was, yes, Scott could be intense at times. He could really demand a lot of his players. He certainly seemed to really like Dan Wilson, who, by all accounts, just essentially just let the guys do whatever they wanted. So when you need a manager who's going to hold players accountable and set a stand and yes, at times probably will have to be hard on his guys. Like, do you trust somebody like Julio to have the right feel on that after the way the last two years went? Or does Julio like that as the terminology we'd like to use? Does he prefer the ice cream for breakfast type manager? 00:39:45 Speaker 1: It's a good question. I will also note that this is just the first impression and they haven't even like gone through any adversity together yet where like bonds can really grow or break. Right. So what we could be saying is just a whole lot of like whatever. But initially, no. Based on what is publicly out there, no. Lyle, to answer your question. 00:40:07 Speaker 2: That we don't trust the opinions of these players to pick the right manager. 00:40:11 Speaker 1: Because again, these players wanted a laid back culture. It didn't work. Yes, correct. But What happens when they spend a year together? Like, does that grow? Does that work? Do they all work together much better? Or, you know, does it not? Does it go in the opposite direction? It's kind of hard to know until you actually do it. It is. 00:40:27 Speaker 2: It's a really, really interesting place the Mariners are in. And we're going to get some clarity on this, I would assume, in the next seven to ten days. But, yeah, this Rocco thing and just some of the intel we've gotten and, you know, hearing about the players sitting in on the meetings, it is going to be fascinating how the Mariners come to this decision and who they pick, and why they picked them. 00:40:50 Speaker 1: Should we wrap this up? A little bit about our time in Milwaukee. So we were in Milwaukee to do some content for our other channel, World Series Media Day. For Bullpen Banner. Yeah, for Bullpen Banner. That was fun. We have a vlog out on our Bullpen Banner YouTube page if you want to go check that out. It was a lot of fun. You get to see pretty much the experience of talking to all those players before game one. Can I say this, though? I'm almost kind of glad we didn't stay for game one. How come? Because there's a pretty solid chance now in the future that we are going to get to see a World Series game in person as a member of the media, if we want to. The way people told us, once you get credentialed, then you're usually good to go for the future. We hope. Yeah, we hope. We'll see. 00:41:37 Speaker 2: I don't want to jinx anything, but I'd like to hope. we can continue doing this as time goes on. We'd be very, very lucky and fortunate if we get to do so because we really enjoyed it. 00:41:45 Speaker 1: So let's hope. But you know what I was thinking while I was standing there in that stadium? Like I kind of want my first World Series game that I see in person to be the Mariners. Well, then you can be looking from your grave, big dog. Well, then that might have to be it. But I'm like thinking like, man, it's like I just don't want to see that, like have that energy like the first time it being like something else. I'm going to be honest. I'm fine seeing a World Series game. All right. 00:42:12 Speaker 2: Because I ain't waiting until I'm 65 years old to see a World Series game. 00:42:17 Speaker 1: That's fine. That's fine. Like, yeah. 00:42:19 Speaker 2: So how we did it is we flew in Wednesday night, went to media day Thursday. There was also workouts on the field Thursday where, you know, guys are going through their drills and there's a chance to catch some other players even on the field after media day a little bit, which we did with Victor Mesa Jr. 00:42:34 Speaker 1: who's awesome with the Rays. 00:42:35 Speaker 2: We caught up with our friend Ryan Pepeo for a while who's injured, but I think we've talked about it on the pod before. 00:42:40 Speaker 1: It's just the best. 00:42:41 Speaker 2: And a longtime friend of mine, TJ now knows, too. So we did a bunch of content over those couple days. We were also doing stuff on Friday morning and afternoon with fans and on the field a little bit before the World Series. Like, standing on that field before the World Series during batting practice is pretty fun because it's like the whole baseball world is there. So we did a bunch of that, and then we flew back Friday night. But, yeah, no, it's been just fun to have the ability– to kind of do both. Like, we love the Mariners to our core and never, ever get tired. Well, I shouldn't say never get tired of talking about them because they drive us nuts, but we do love this team. 00:43:18 Speaker 1: Hey, look, we didn't stop doing podcast stuff while we were there. No, we were still podcasting. 00:43:22 Speaker 2: All I mean is it's fun to have your team-based thing, like your regional, I guess, brand or outlet, but it's also been fun over the last year and a half coming up on two years now to be able to branch out in a more broad way, too, and do something that's not just, oh, we're sitting here and reporting on the national baseball, you know, on the happenings of the national baseball. 00:43:46 Speaker 1: We're doing baseball trivia. Like, it's fun. 00:43:48 Speaker 2: We kind of get to see a bunch of the personalities around the league and see who knows ball and see what topics people know. Like, Victor Mesa Jr., by the way, who we talked to, I was just saying a minute. 00:43:58 Speaker 1: Ago, man, he knew ball. Really knew ball. Can I draw a comparison to this season? And I'm not even trying to, like, call anyone out specifically with this, and it's like, it's a little. 00:44:08 Speaker 1: Maybe not unfair, but hear me out, because you and I have had this conversation before. Your relationships with people when you have to be critical of them versus not critical of them can change. it is nice to not have to be critical of everybody. Sure. Because, well, I didn't want to be critical all season long, but the Mariners season was an objective disaster, so therefore, we had to be pretty hard on the team. And yes, it can affect the day-to-day relationship you have with people that you're around at the ballpark. Sure. That just happens. And I'm not saying... But when... we get to go do stuff with this other channel. Like we don't have to criticize people. So like we just get to talk, we just get to talk ball and do, and do fun things, which for the people who see or don't see like there was, Oh, actually that's, that's pretty fun. They get a little bit of smile on their face and it's something different than the everyday grind of playing baseball or the stress that comes along with the world series. So it's great to kind of see that side of people. Yeah. 00:45:06 Speaker 2: And this isn't to say we've lost relationships or anything like that with players. 00:45:09 Speaker 1: It's just like, we've talked about. 00:45:12 Speaker 2: Team was just in a, They just seemed like they were in a different mood from the minute the season started. I don't know if something was off all the way back to the WBC with Cal and Randy. 00:45:21 Speaker 1: Maybe it was. 00:45:23 Speaker 2: But it just seemed like something was off and guys weren't as outward and talkative throughout the year. With a lot of people, not just us, just in general at the ballpark this year versus a lot of other teams where You get to talk to these guys in a different setting and kind of just talk ball. And it is a nice way to, I mean, not just do another passion project of ours, something we really enjoy, which is just baseball trivia, but also just kind of get to have something. 00:45:51 Speaker 1: That's a lot more lighthearted with a lot of people around the league. 00:45:54 Speaker 2: For example, like, you know, even at this World Series Media Day, right, where we've developed some relationships with different guys across the league now with some different teams and with the Rays, for example, like, You know, we've gotten to know Chandler Simpson a little bit. We've gotten to know Brian Baker a little bit, who's awesome. I mean, you know, we got to talk to Victor Mesa Jr. for the first time, who was great. We've known Pepeo forever. Like, it's just a nice change of pace. And it's just something we really, really enjoy doing and getting to see a lot of people we don't often get to see at these events. 00:46:24 Speaker 1: Yeah. That's a long roundabout way of saying, Mariners, please go back to winning games as soon as possible so it can be more similar. It is. 00:46:33 Speaker 2: please, that would be great. I was just going to say it's also fun, again, to get to really... It's good to meet new people, too. Meet new people, but also even just aside from the players, just all the different people we've gotten to really connect with in the baseball world now is really fun. Because when you just do a team-based thing, all the Mariners media people are great. All the people we've gotten to know from that. But you see the same group of people all the time. It's fun when you get to really get out there and... connect with a lot of different people. And by going to all these different events now when we're at the winter meetings or spring training or when we've traveled to other parks this year or go to World Series Media Day or All-Star Week, we've really gotten to connect with a lot of different people, whether it's other content creators, which we certainly have, or other writers, which we certainly have. 00:47:18 Speaker 1: It's just been a really fun thing. 00:47:20 Speaker 2: I genuinely enjoy just meeting different people within the baseball world. And when you're at something like World Series Media Day or the World Series, You get to see a lot of those people and catch up with a lot of people that maybe you only see once, twice, three times a year. You know, we don't get to see Jeff pass it all the time, but it was fun to see him. It was fun to do trivia with him. 00:47:40 Speaker 1: I mean, he's like the most cool person with a million followers on Twitter. Very. Probably. Well, unless you're a sleeper. Unless you're a sleeper account. Oh, that was great. Jeff is getting a little more feisty on Twitter these days. I mean. 00:47:54 Speaker 2: I can only imagine, Teej, we see what our comment sections are like with both channels, but especially when the Mariners are losing. 00:47:59 Speaker 1: Can you imagine passing his comment sections? I can't blame him. I think it's bad, but we never respond. But he just sometimes feels like just rolling his sleeves up and cracking back with a good one. He picks his spots, but I don't blame him. He's like. 00:48:12 Speaker 2: I think he's really funny when he does that stuff on Twitter. Because he usually doesn't miss with his replies. 00:48:16 Speaker 1: We do get some funny ones, though. So if you have anything you want to say in our DMs, say it. Just so I can look at it. We might not respond, but we'll see it. We got the funniest message of all time this morning regarding the Mariners. I was telling Lyle, I just want to respond to this so bad. But I'm like, then we just start a trend where someone sends us something ridiculous, and then we start responding to it. 00:48:41 Speaker 2: I mean, we've gotten a few that are like, one day Lyle and TJ will learn ball and realize Munoz wasn't the guy to put in against George Springer. 00:48:49 Speaker 1: It's like, okay, well. 00:48:52 Speaker 1: Everybody's got a different take, pal. Or where people are like, you guys should talk about other sports. And it's like, well, this is a Mariner's podcast. I'm sorry. We didn't build up this podcast to turn around and talk about the Seahawks. You know what? Maybe during the lockout when there's nothing going on. Yeah, maybe during the lockout when there's literally nothing to talk about, we can. But the next five weeks until the owners lock the players out, it should be a pretty entertaining thing. five weeks. It should. And we had a very entertaining trip, which was fun. Yes. 00:49:24 Speaker 2: And shout out to everybody that we got to see this week or got to talk to because you guys are all great. 00:49:29 Speaker 1: Seriously. But that was our trip, which was really fun. 00:49:32 Speaker 2: That's the latest on all the Mariners potential managers, which is certainly interesting. 00:49:35 Speaker 1: And who knows? 00:49:36 Speaker 2: Maybe by the next time we podcast, we'll have a manager. I would guess it'll take. Less than three more podcasts for us to have one. 00:49:43 Speaker 1: Maybe, probably within a week. I would say within a week. By next Monday? Yeah. Feels that way, yeah. 00:49:49 Speaker 2: All right, that just about wraps up this edition of the Marine Layer Podcast. 00:49:53 Speaker 1: You guys know the drill. 00:49:54 Speaker 2: If you want to listen to the full-form podcast, you can do so wherever you get your audio pods. Make sure to download these episodes if you're listening. Go rate and review. Please leave a five stars. It helps a ton. Make sure to go hit subscribe on YouTube if you're watching. Go check out our website, which is marinelayerpod.com. You can find our podcast merch, which we're wearing, Patreon, all of our episodes. It's all over there. And then find us all across social media at marinelayerpod. 00:50:17 Speaker 1: That's TJ. I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon.