Episode 480: What Did We Think Of Jason Kanzler's Introductory Press Conference? + Mailbag

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number 480 of the Marine Layer podcast. It's a mailbag episode, so we'll open it up and answer your best listener questions. We'll also react to Jason Kanzler's first press conference as Mariner's manager. 00:00:12 Speaker 2: Just a quick reminder to you guys, before we get going, if you're watching this podcast on YouTube, do us a big favor and make sure you hit that subscribe button. If you're listening, make sure you go rate and review this podcast, and please leave it five stars when you do. You can also check out our website, which is marinelayerpod.com, where we've got everything there, such as our merch and our Patreon. We've got a bunch of things over at the website, so go check it out. And then follow us all across social media, at marinelayerpod. 00:00:38 Speaker 1: Let's get it rolling. And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Ladder Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network. Recording here on Thursday afternoon, November 5th, we just heard from Jason Kanzler as manager of the Mariners for the first time yesterday. Lyle, your first reaction is what? 00:01:10 Speaker 2: It is so nice to hear complete sentences formulated. That is my first reaction. My first reaction is Jason Kanzler is a very, very intelligent baseball mind. 00:01:21 Speaker 1: Who's a good speaker? 00:01:23 Speaker 2: Especially, well, I'll say, especially for his first ever real press conference and true large media availability. Because keep in mind, when you're a farm director or director of player development, you don't really have to do a whole lot of media scrums. He hasn't had a ton of experience with it. And I thought for his first one, he did pretty well. 00:01:41 Speaker 1: I thought it was good too. I almost thought it was boring, but boring is good. Like, the answers were pretty concise, but it also lines up with the intensity of his personality where he's just super focused on getting to the point, which is like, that's a positive as opposed to dancing around the answers to questions. I find, I find that to be a positive. It kind of took me until after that to realize that, but it's like, all right. I mean, he didn't, if there was more stories to come out of this about his personality, I think that might've been a problem. But we didn't have that problem. 00:02:20 Speaker 2: Agreed. I think he said all the right things for the most part. And we can go through some of it. We went through some of it on social media. But, man, I love some of the things that he talked about. I love the whole Ride the Lightning line. I think a lot of people did. 00:02:32 Speaker 1: Tried to tie that in with famously Jesse Winker's dubbing of T-Mobile Park. 00:02:38 Speaker 2: Well, if there's one thing we can hope for Jason Kanzler is that he has the success rate of Jesse Winker. 00:02:44 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. 00:02:46 Speaker 2: One thing Jerry mentioned in that press conference on Wednesday was that the feedback they got from basically everybody around the league that they talked to is that they are a really bad defensive team. Everybody seemed to have that feedback. I'm guessing Kanzler included. And if that's the case, I can't imagine Jason Kanzler would have loved working with Jesse Winker, especially as somebody who specializes in outfield defense like Kanzler does. 00:03:10 Speaker 1: Well, I heard Hollander talk about that this morning as we're recording here on Thursday on Brock & Selk. Defense came up a lot. There was one other thing I couldn't remember. If it was, I mean, if it was base running, if it was asking about accountability from the other side, I don't exactly remember, but there were a couple of different things like that, that the Mariners said they were self-scouting throughout this process and something I'm sure Jason Kanzler pointed out to them in this interview process and a process in which they said this was a blowout decision for them and he made it really easy. 00:03:46 Speaker 2: So again, can you imagine Kanzler having to work with Jesse Winker on his outfield defense? 00:03:53 Speaker 1: I think he'd be a little frustrated. I think so. That clip that's floating around on Twitter of Jason Kanzler talking to a bunch of high schoolers about outfield defense, I feel like could have been used for the Mariners like the last three seasons with different players. Sure. 00:04:11 Speaker 2: By the way, did Winker even play anywhere this past year? No, he didn't. I don't know if he was injured or if nobody... wanted to sign him, but yeah, it seems like his career is coming to an end. 00:04:21 Speaker 1: I would say the thing that stood out to me the most about Jason Kanzler, when I'm listening to him talk is when I talked about him talking sort of straightforward to the point, concise, not overly like flamboyant and letting personality come out. I thought it hit home the most with his answer about how he plans on holding players accountable. And it, to his answer, he said, The number one thing about accountability is you need to simplify everything and you need to have people understand what they need to be accountable for before they can take accountability. And I thought that answer was perfect. Do the 2026 Mariners understand what they need to be accountable for in their mistakes on the field and off the field? And then they can take accountability on not doing that kind of stuff again. It's so simple, right? But yet over the last year especially, something that simple was made incredibly difficult. And I'm glad we got a very clear, concise answer from him at the press conference. Whether or not it gets executed on the field, still to be determined. But the words were correct. 00:05:31 Speaker 2: And I think the answer on accountability tied in well to when he was asked about culture, team culture. 00:05:37 Speaker 1: And he said. 00:05:39 Speaker 2: Culture is what you stand for. The things you allow and the things you really don't allow. It's holding the line on certain things. He said that the things you allow are the things that you stand for. And if you're allowing certain things to happen or letting certain things kind of sweat, like letting things go by, that means you stand for those things. And if you're not okay with that, then you have to hold the line and set a standard for what you are not okay with having in your clubhouse and on that field of yours. Like, it all tied in. I think it tied in really well, which, again, I think is a great answer when you compare it to three and a half very, very short months ago when a similar question was asked to start the second half before the first game of the second half about what the team culture and identity needs to be. I said this on social media on Wednesday, too. And the answer was, yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, you know, show up ready to play. And then they went 20 innings to start the second half without scoring a run. 00:06:36 Speaker 1: Quite literally not showing up. 00:06:39 Speaker 2: No, I mean, not only did they not show up, but that the answer wasn't even close to an identity that, that, that had no components of an identity, that answer. So again, three and a half short months ago, that was an answer. And now you're hearing very concrete, decisive answers on what culture and accountability need to look like, which great. 00:06:58 Speaker 1: They need it. Another answer I really liked was his question about using information versus gut feel when it came to decision-making. The question was framed to him as how do you balance using analytics versus using gut feel when making decisions as a manager? And he cut right through the bullshit in his answer, which is why you can probably tell that Jerry and Justin really liked him when they talked to him. As we've always talked about on this podcast. Whenever you use the word analytics, you need to swap it out with the word information because that's what it is. It's information. And the reason people use analytics is because you're essentially adding complexity to what it actually is. So then you can trash it and people don't understand it. And Jason Kanzler goes right to the point and says, look, we're in an era where we have more information available to us than ever before, and we would be fools not to use it. That doesn't mean you use it all the time, but you use it to assist your decisions to make the best possible decision. And then he adds on top of that, when it comes to gut feel, yeah, there might not always be, there might be situations where the numbers don't tell you exactly what to do, where you have to do what you feel is right. But it's not just on me, he says. It's on everybody. We're all... in this to make decisions together on the bench. And that is correct. Like that's how it should work. Again, love it. Great answer. Seriously, great answer. 00:08:28 Speaker 2: I'd say the other noteworthy quote that he had that I took notice of was when he asked why he's the right man for the job. And again, he was concise. He didn't beat around the bush. He kept it pretty short and sweet, but he had a good answer, which was, I think I'm the right man for the job because I essentially know how talented this group is. I know how good we can be. But I also know every person can be better. And I'm excited to try and get that out of them. I believe I'm the person that can get that out of them. 00:08:56 Speaker 1: Great. Again, great answer. Loved it. That's what every manager who interviewed for this job. It should have been like one of the first five things they said to Jerry and Justin in this interview process. I see you have a team that can win the AL West. and potentially win the American League and go to the World Series, and I think I'm the one to get them there. That should be first, because it's obvious. Look at the division. It's obvious. It's the most clear-cut thing on planet Earth. Again, I don't even. 00:09:25 Speaker 2: Well, we talked about it plenty, so maybe this isn't an exact perfect phrasing, but I'll just say again that I don't think you can ever harp on enough how absolutely brutal. 00:09:39 Speaker 1: It looked. 00:09:40 Speaker 2: That this team missed the playoffs in this division. I mean, again, 81 wins, won you the division. And as the second highest favorites to win the World Series preseason, you didn't make the playoffs? Like, what the hell happened? 00:09:54 Speaker 1: Well, we know what happened. We know we know what happened yeah and not a great look uh i there were two more things that kind of stood out to me and this is one's actually negative to me one's not let's start with the one that's not quite as serious the first time he made the joke about the astros being the team who shall not be named was funny first time it's like oh ha Well, a little bit of sense of humor, probably the only sense of humor I thought he showed in the press conference, which he mostly stayed serious, which is fine. 00:10:27 Speaker 2: I'll actually know one thing about his sense of humor. He was on with Wyman and Bob on 710 again later in the day. And he actually said he considers himself to have a sense of humor and he likes to try and keep it light. 00:10:38 Speaker 1: Now, maybe it's not. Like Brant Brown did? 00:10:42 Speaker 2: Did Brant Brown consider himself to have a sense of humor? 00:10:45 Speaker 1: I don't really remember. Oh, yeah. 00:10:47 Speaker 2: Really? Oh, maybe I don't remember that. 00:10:49 Speaker 1: Um, I could tell on Brock and Salk. He, he was like, I forget the exact words he used, but it's like, it was along the lines of like, oh yeah, I'm the funny guy in this clubhouse. And they were like, uh, yeah, I would say, I don't think so. 00:11:05 Speaker 2: I would say I can tell Kanzler has a bit of it in him, but it might take people a little bit of time to pick up on the sense of humor. I don't think it's dry humor, maybe a little bit, but I, I think people might just take some time to pick up on some of his mannerisms. 00:11:22 Speaker 1: That's what I picked up on. 00:11:23 Speaker 2: Cause he's pretty intense, but I can tell there's, there is a humor aside to him, but it's just going to take a little bit of time. 00:11:30 Speaker 1: But my point about the Astros thing is that it kept getting brought up and people kept saying that. And then, and then I thought the joke died. So yeah, I was like every, I was listening to it on a, I was in the car and I was driving and every time someone brought it up, I'm like, Oh, can we just call them the Astros? Like they won 81 games last year. Just call them the Astros. That's it. I'm with you. 00:11:54 Speaker 2: And it wasn't really Kanzler that kept doing it. 00:11:56 Speaker 1: He did it once. 00:11:56 Speaker 2: Then everybody started doing it. 00:11:58 Speaker 1: It's like, oh God. Okay. My actual red flag for Jason Kanzler. I thought this was the only thing that popped up in the entire press conference that I raised my eyebrow at. They asked him if he had considered managing before this job. And the answer to the question was no. He had not. Not until he got called to interview for this job had he ever thought he was going to be a manager at any level. I find that concerning, Lyle, because that's the exact same thing we heard about Dan Wilson. To a T. The follow-up to that, Lyle, if this isn't something you've been looking forward to doing for five to ten years and you've been working your way to be a guy like this, to have a job like this, that you go through all the ups and downs and rigors of the season. Like when things get hard in Jason Kanzler's first season and he's not doing something he's always wanted to do, what is his response to it? 00:12:59 Speaker 2: That is to be determined because we haven't seen it. We're going to have to see games get played. The only thing I'd say about that is if you're somebody who hears that and says to yourself, okay, that's a little bit of a red flag. Okay, it's fair to feel that way. I would also say I don't think that's that out of the norm. I think sometimes it takes you getting into something and jumping into something before you really realize you want to do something. For example, just to use the two of us, when did we realize we really wanted to do content for a living? We really wanted to do baseball content. Maybe a couple weeks before we started this podcast, and then once we really got it rolling and got some more time, we realized, oh, yeah, we really like this. Both of us thought we wanted to be play-by-play broadcasters in college, and both of us were pretty focused on that. And then all of a sudden, we wanted to try out something a little bit different, and as some time went on, we realized that, oh, I actually think this is a little bit more of our calling. 00:13:56 Speaker 1: I don't think that's that out of the norm. But the situation's a little different because we weren't running up against a, oh, you guys need to get 2,000 listeners an episode within the first year or you're fired, and you're not going to do this again. Because that's kind of what Kanzler is under, right? He's not in a position where he can grow. So that's why it puts even more pressure on him to succeed at a job he didn't think he was going to be doing, right? Do you see what I'm saying? I do. 00:14:30 Speaker 2: I also think that Again, we don't know for sure. We're going to have to see how things play out. But he seems like a guy that's so process-oriented and so detailed and has such a plan in his head that once he decided this was for him, he's going to give it his all. I don't think we, for one second, ever thought that Dan Wilson had the traits to, quote-unquote, give it his all as manager. I don't think we ever thought he really had the traits to be a good manager. 00:14:56 Speaker 1: No, and it doesn't do Kanzler any favors there. That's who he's following, but that is a trait those two share. And when the example was made of the last manager that he didn't always put in the required work or had the required skills to manage a baseball team on top of before taking this job, never really wanting to manage, then like, unfortunately, Kanzler is going to be coming into a bit of an unfair comparison, but I'm not sure what other comparison we're supposed to make at this point. Until he starts managing games, like, that's all we got. 00:15:34 Speaker 2: Well, if we're going to be doing the comparison game all year, he shapes up pretty well. Because as I've said for a while, literally anybody is an upgrade. 00:15:43 Speaker 1: Right, 100%. But I think it would be foolish to not think of this as even like a slight red flag. Ultimately, though, it doesn't matter until the games start getting played and we see it actually unfold, right? We can talk about the impact to manager, makes in his opening press conference, but managers don't have impact really that much during the offseason. The strength of any baseball team is like, what happens in season, what's your ability to adapt, and what's your ability to communicate? All these things seem like strengths of Jason Kanzler's, or at least competent. He's at least competent at these things, but we don't know until the games start getting played. 00:16:22 Speaker 2: And I think that sentiment right there is important for people to listen to. We don't know how to judge Jason Kanzler until these games start getting played, which ties into a bit of a narrative that's gone crazy on social media over the last couple of days, which is there's a lot of people out there that just immediately have said to themselves from the second this hire was made, this guy's terrible. He's going to be awful. We've got no chance. Fold the season. I hope the lockout lasts throughout the entire year, et cetera, et cetera. Guys, Don't you want to see this play out? Look, I'm not sitting here saying you should crown him manager of the year already. 00:16:56 Speaker 1: You shouldn't. 00:16:57 Speaker 2: Hassan said something similar, which is you should have some skepticism. Totally fair, because he hasn't managed. We don't know how he's going to be. We don't know if he'll be good. But we don't know if he'll be bad. Don't you want to see this thing play out a little? Like, this idea that he's already the worst manager of all time, and I actually think he's got a chance to be a good one, seems kind of far-fetched, man. 00:17:18 Speaker 1: Like. 00:17:19 Speaker 2: This could just be trauma from the lack of winning both last year and in the history of the franchise, which I always say, everybody should be pissed off with the lack of winning both last year and in the history of the franchise. 00:17:31 Speaker 1: It's ridiculous. But I don't think that's on Jason Kanzler. No. What it is is I think it's mostly people distrusting Jerry. I think that's what it is. Distrusting Jerry and distrusting the ownership. I think we're going to try to have Divish on next week. And when we do, I'm going to make a note of this. I want him to answer the question for the people so people can hear it from him. How he responds to people that say, well, this is just going to be a Jerry puppet who meets his every request and does whatever he wants, which, again, I don't think is true. No, this is a person who, in our opinion, sees the game the same way as Jerry. That doesn't make you a Jerry puppet. No. 00:18:13 Speaker 2: And alignment between front office and coaching staff is. 00:18:16 Speaker 1: A good thing. 00:18:17 Speaker 2: You know why the disaster class of the last two years ensued? Because there was not alignment between coaching staff and front office. They couldn't get Dan to see the vision on anything. And that's why these games would go so awry. Like, alignment's a good thing. No, he should not be a puppet. I don't really think he's going to be a puppet. Kanzler said on his interview with Wyman and Bob, He says, I expect to have the same autonomy as just about any manager in Major League Baseball would. But he said, in that I'll be trusted to make good decisions. And if I come short of doing that, then yes, of course, other people are going to come in with their opinions. And of course, on a daily basis in general, this is a team effort and it's a collective working together. But he said, yeah, I expect to have the same autonomy as any manager. And look, maybe you don't believe Jerry. 00:19:08 Speaker 1: Again. Totally fair. 00:19:10 Speaker 2: Jerry's giving people reasons to not believe him over his tenure. But I don't really think he's a puppet. 00:19:16 Speaker 1: And if the front office ends up not trusting Kanzler to make decisions and they try to force more decisions out of him, then guess what? This probably didn't work. And we're going to have a clean slate starting in 2028. Right. As we've talked about. Right. 00:19:31 Speaker 2: The last thing I'm going to say on this before we move to the mailbag is I got to be totally honest. As we've had our last day of listening to Jason Kanzler, in his press conference, in some different interviews, everything. I can't even express the actual smile and excitement I can feel across my face. 00:19:50 Speaker 1: My face. 00:19:51 Speaker 2: Because I don't know how else to put this other than I'm so unbelievably thrilled and happy Dan Wilson is not the manager of this team anymore. Once we had a new face in place and we're seeing Kanzler talk and we're seeing him explain himself and we're getting to learn a little bit about him, I could actually feel a not transparent. What's the right word? 00:20:14 Speaker 1: Oh, subconscious. 00:20:15 Speaker 2: I could actually feel subconscious smiles coming across my face without even meaning to do it. Because I think I realized in that time, God, this guy is so different than Dan Wilson. And Dan Wilson is also no longer the manager of this team. And I can just feel like the joy in my body as we now actually have the new manager. I was like, God, this is awesome. I don't know if Kanzler is going to be a great manager or not. But I had a feeling this was going to happen once we got our new manager, which was the first sign of life and the first sign of a new manager. I was going to buy in so incredibly fast. I'm going to be like, oh, I love this guy. I'm going to be the biggest stand for this guy in the world. 00:20:51 Speaker 1: And you know what? 00:20:52 Speaker 2: I probably will be because it's. 00:20:54 Speaker 1: Not so happy. The 2026 baseball season is going to get thrown in the dumpster and forgotten as fast as humanly possible. And this This is step one to doing that. Yeah. 00:21:05 Speaker 2: And honestly, it's going to sound crazy, but parts of 2025 too. I know they went to the ALCS and got all the way to game seven, but there's a lot of problems that arose in that season too. That was a lot of them by Dan that were covered up by a 60 home run catcher. Like I'm so, so happy to have a new manager. I can't even put it into words. 00:21:25 Speaker 1: I can't wait to meet him and talk to him for the first time. That'll be a, that should be cool. And the young, like given how young he is, like, the most relatable head man since, like, we've started doing a podcast. Yes. So that part's pretty cool. Yes. 00:21:40 Speaker 2: And I said it on social media. I'll say it here to the people, too, amidst all the comments about Kanzler and a lot of the skepticism. We actually got a couple comments over the last couple days that said, I want Dan Wilson back. I'm going to make the same plea and offer to everybody listening here that I did on social media. If you are a person in the Seattle area... and you genuinely believe that, I'm sure some people are trolling, but if you genuinely believe that, I would like you to send the podcast at either an email or a DM, and I will actually meet up with you in person in the Seattle area, as long as you're within driving distance, within Seattle limits, and talk this out in person. 00:22:21 Speaker 1: I'm dead serious. 00:22:22 Speaker 2: If somebody actually still believes that, I will sit down and talk with you in person. Everybody has certain things that they stand for and stand on. This will not stand. 00:22:32 Speaker 1: So if you. 00:22:33 Speaker 2: Actually believe that and are not trolling, you can DM us or email us and we can coordinate it. 00:22:37 Speaker 1: All right, let's get into this mailbag. Just a reminder to you all, if you want to get in on the action of these mailbags, the place to go is our Patreon. That's patreon.com slash marine layer pod, where you can get access to add free episodes. Now mailbag priority. So you can get priority on these mailbags and you get your questions answered immediately. every single week or the opportunity to hop on a video call with Lyle and I once a month. So if that sounds like something that's interesting to you, go to patreon.com slash marine layer pod. Let's start off with Rob on Patreon. Rob's question is my dad, uh, is the second writer bucket gone for good? How do you explain its success and then subsequent failures after the fact? 00:23:25 Speaker 2: How do you explain the success is probably a question for somebody that's smarter than us and probably a question for somebody that works in the analytics department of the Mariners front office or the pitching development side of the Mariners organization. But is it gone? It feels like it's close to being gone at this point because they haven't had a real success story like that in three years. So we've talked about this in the past. You had three big success stories in 21, which was Steckenreiter, Seawald, Casey Sadler. You had some more pop onto the scene in 2022. They turned Matt Brash into a reliever. 00:23:57 Speaker 1: It really worked. 00:23:59 Speaker 2: Andres Munoz broke out in a big way. I mean, you got Penn Murphy that year. Eric Swanson had a huge year. You had success stories. You had the three guys then in 2023 also with Topa, Spire, and Saucedo. Since then, if you try to go year by year and point to the success story, who is it? Is it Colin Snyder in 2024? Because he didn't really repeat it after that. He's probably the best case. 00:24:22 Speaker 1: Too small of a sample. 00:24:24 Speaker 2: He's probably the best case. But again, if you have to pick somebody from that team, it's not a large... It's slim pickings. 2025, Edward Bazzardo, who had a good year, but then... was overexposed got put in the biggest moment of the season he shouldn't have been we all know that and gave it up and and essentially was a huge cause for losing them their season and then turned around this year and was really bad in the second half that's three years in a row they haven't had guys stick. 00:24:57 Speaker 1: Okay so i have one the first point i want to start off with is I think the Mariners had someone in the Steckenreiter bucket that would have been lauded as a success given his draft profile, but the Mariners traded him away. And I'm talking about our guy, Brandon Garcia. I think Brandon Garcia would have been in the Steckenreiter bucket given that he was, what, a 12th round pick? 11th. Yeah, because Logan was a 12th round pick. It's funny. I think that would have counted. If he came up to the Mariners and had success, and he had a great year with the Diamondbacks, the problem is they traded him away for Josh Naylor. Which, I mean, again, are you going to trash the Mariners for that? I don't think so. Like, we missed BG, but I don't think we're trashing the Mariners for making that trade, no? 00:25:48 Speaker 2: No, we're not. It's funny you bring him up, because I actually have his name saved for another question in this mailbag. 00:25:53 Speaker 1: Oh, okay. Yes. The other one is... The Mariners lost Max, is it Max Weiner? 00:26:02 Speaker 2: Weiner, yeah. 00:26:02 Speaker 1: Yeah. So they lost him to the college ranks after the 2023 season. He was really integral in the Mariners identifying and raising the floor of their pitching systems within their entire organization. And people laud him as a very crucial part to the Mariners. The Mariners becoming one of the best pitching teams in Major League Baseball. And right after 2023 season, The 2023 season, he goes to Texas A & M and now he's at Texas and the Mariners haven't identified and developed, especially bullpen arms as much as they did when he was employed. I think that's a not so insignificant part of this whole thing. Yeah, great. 00:26:44 Speaker 2: Max Wiener did a lot. Anybody you talk to with the Mariners talks about how important he was. It's funny, I meant to do the 2026 version of who was the best example of the Steckenreiter bucket. 00:26:54 Speaker 1: You look up and down. None. Who do you even pick? Is it Cooper Criswell? No. Yeah, he was hurt most of the year. Right, but if it's not him, who are you picking? No one. The bullpen sucked. Yeah. There is no Steckenreiter bucket for a bad bullpen. The reason the Steckenreiter bucket... got its label is because the Mariners managed to turn a unit that didn't have all the resources poured into it until like a top five unit. When you're a bottom 15 unit, you don't get a Steckenreiter bucket. Who was the closest one? That's what I was asking. No one, no one. 00:27:27 Speaker 2: You've got to pick one again. It's like how I pick Colin Snyder in 2024. The bucket's gone. The bucket's gone. 00:27:34 Speaker 1: Pick somebody. Okay. Give me one second. 00:27:39 Speaker 2: Again, I think my answer to this is Criswell because there's– man, it's not easy to pick. 00:27:47 Speaker 1: But like the Steckenreiter bucket is like a positive connotation. I don't have much positive connotation about this bullpen. No. Can we say Alex Hoppe because he's great as an Oriole? No. I mean we might have to. That's probably the closest. He pitched a full year. 00:28:08 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd probably put Criswell a little closer than him, but okay. 00:28:13 Speaker 1: 18 appearances, a 1.84 ERA, and 14 and two-thirds. Yeah. That's pretty good. 00:28:19 Speaker 2: They better start investing resources in their bullpen. 00:28:22 Speaker 1: They better. Wait, it's not Michael Rucker? No. No. Absolutely not. No. 00:28:29 Speaker 2: No. 00:28:30 Speaker 1: Not a chance. Okay. Okay. Yeah, it's not great. They could definitely use getting that edge back in terms of developing lesser-known arms. And I don't know whether that comes with acquiring better players or acquiring better scouts to scout said players that you are lacking in your organization. There's also the adaptation part and the pitching strategy part where teams like the Brewers and the Rays, and people ask us what we want to take from those teams. their ability to adapt as an organization and constantly change to gain an edge. Like the Mariners from essentially 2021 to 2023 were gaining an edge with some of the players they were finding inside and outside of their organization to put into their big league bullpen. And the Mariners just haven't been able to find the same edges since then. And some of it, Lyle, could be on strategy, how you're executing pitches. Someone like Michael Rucker could be a better pitcher if his pitch mix was utilized differently. But we won't know because... The pitch mix he was using last year was awful. Yeah, correct. So that's my take on that. uh next question comes from thomas on patreon thomas's question is uh let me say that thomas's question is what do you think the chances logan will sign an extension before the lockout does the signing of kanzler help or hurt that at all. 00:29:57 Speaker 2: I think Kanzler being hired as the manager is an indifference. I don't think it matters either way. I think what matters to Logan is the money that would be presented in front of him. Do I think he signs an extension before the lockout? Unfortunately, I'll call it unlikely. But if I'm Logan Gilbert, what I'm watching in the next month is, and really who I'm watching in the next month is, Freddie Peralta and what he gets. Michael King and what he gets. couple of the other pitchers and see what they get. 00:30:28 Speaker 1: Not Scooble. 00:30:28 Speaker 2: Cause he's going to be an outlier, but Logan Gilbert's probably going to argue for Freddie Peralta type of money. So, and his agent's probably going to argue for it. So he's probably going to be closely watching those guys. And it's going to be about if the Mariners in the next month will offer him close enough money for him to say, yes, I think it's all about that. 00:30:50 Speaker 1: I think there's a 5% chance. Logan Gilbert signs an extension before the deadline. Um, and it just doesn't seem likely. The only thing working in the Mariners favor for a Logan Gilbert extension is the lockout. And if Logan Gilbert thinks they will miss an entire season of baseball and owners are going to, you know, not invest as much into their teams if they miss that entire year, because they miss out on a whole year of revenue and that will impact his ability to get the most as a free agent. He's like, all right, I'll just take this money now so I don't have to worry about it whenever we eventually play. And if you take an extension now, you might feel more comfortable. I don't know where Logan is on the PA hierarchy for the Mariners. I honestly have no idea who is the Mariners' PA rep. We talked to Logan about it at one point. Was he not it at one point? 00:31:49 Speaker 2: Maybe. 00:31:49 Speaker 1: Maybe. but I don't think he still is. 00:31:52 Speaker 2: I want to say it was Kirby at one point. I don't know who it is right now. 00:31:56 Speaker 1: I think Kirby... So if Logan was... Sorry, you can finish. 00:32:00 Speaker 2: No, I think Kirby did do it at one point. I can't remember if Logan did. I do remember talking to Logan about, at one point, just some of that stuff in general. I think it was last spring training we did. 00:32:12 Speaker 1: If Logan had taken an extension before the lockout, he would probably feel a lot different about... the negotiations going on if he was the rep. Because especially if he had more security, like missing a season probably wouldn't matter to him because he's got the years and money guaranteed no matter what. Grandfathered in under the old agreement. Mm-hmm. So. 00:32:39 Speaker 2: I hope they get one done, but it's not a guarantee. 00:32:43 Speaker 1: Speaking of starting pitchers, next question on the mailbag is Ethan on Patreon. Ethan's question is, Recently, it was announced that the D-backs are seeking a controllable starting pitcher for one of their many right-handed outfielders. What would it take to get Ryan Waldschmidt or Jordan Lawler? 00:33:01 Speaker 2: It would take one of your starting pitchers. I don't know exactly what the return package for George Kirby is going to look like. I don't know if you could get a real established star for him with two years of club control. I don't know if it's going to be more somebody that's young and controllable, like a Ryan Waldschmidt or like a Casey Schmidt from the Giants who we talked about last summer. I don't really know what the range for George Kirby is going to be. But if you wanted somebody like Ryan Waldschmidt, I think it would take trading one of your starting pitchers. I think George Kirby for Ryan Waldschmidt is part of a trade package that's plausible. So yes, I would say one of the starting pitchers. 00:33:39 Speaker 1: But I'm going to need more for the Diamondbacks if I'm trading George Kirby. He's still got two years left. I'm glad you brought that up. I'm not just taking Ryan Walshman. If you want to just do a one-for-one swap, the Diamondbacks would probably do Logan Gilbert for Ryan Walshman. 00:33:56 Speaker 2: One year of control. Better pitcher, but only one year. Maybe, but Ryan Walshman was a good prospect, and he has got a ton of club control. 00:34:04 Speaker 1: But just a prospect. Yeah. The unfortunate reality between Ryan Waldschmidt and Jordan Lawler is that between the two of them, we have one 44 game sample combined of them being an above average major league hitter. Yeah. And that's it. And for a team that wants to win now, like this is not some sort of project you can take on where you hope that Ryan Waldschmidt is a solid everyday outfielder in 2029. In that case, I'd rather just keep George Kirby. I'm going to want more than this. Well, I, I would want Geraldo Perdomo if I'm trading George Kirby. And then you tack Ryan Waldschmidt on that, and you give up more prospects to go back to them. 00:34:48 Speaker 2: I mean, that would be awesome, but how are you getting the Diamondbacks to say yes to that? 00:34:52 Speaker 1: Perdomo and Waldschmidt. You're giving them a starting pitcher with multiple years of control, and you pitch in some of your best prospects. 00:35:02 Speaker 2: Laz and Arroyo, or one or the other? 00:35:04 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. Sure, yeah, if that's what it takes. You might have to give up one of your pitching prospects if Perdomo's involved. I don't think you could give up Sloan, no. Couldn't give up Cade if you're getting Perdomo? 00:35:23 Speaker 2: Those two are really supposed to build a new foundation of a pitching staff for the Mariners. And actually, we're going to talk about that a little more in context at some point next week. Because there's some interesting conversations to be had around the Mariners pitching staff and what free agency and trades will look like this winter. But I want to save that. So I'll sit on that for now. 00:35:43 Speaker 1: I'll say this. 00:35:45 Speaker 2: If it's more going to be along the lines of a Ryan Waldschmidt return package for Kirby, I told you I was saving our guy for a different question in this mailbag. TJ, we got asked in our most recent mailbag, what would you take away from the Brewers and the Rays? And what did you say about the Brewers that you would want to take from them? 00:36:03 Speaker 1: I wanted Aaron Ashby. 00:36:05 Speaker 2: Who is essentially Aaron Ashby? 00:36:09 Speaker 1: Brandon Garcia. 00:36:10 Speaker 2: Less proven, but absolutely. Our guy, in case you guys weren't paying attention... He didn't just have a good year. He had a phenomenal year. This man put up a two-war season as a reliever in Arizona. 193 ERA. Whip was 0-7. Strikeout rate was incredibly high. Like, all the things you heard about Brandon Garcia as a prospect and why he could be an absolute dynamite reliever came onto the scene this year. And by the way, he went multiple innings a lot down in Arizona for a guy that was just really getting his first crack at the big leagues this year. Yeah, if you want to go trade Kirby and you're not going to get Perdomo back from Arizona because they tell you no on him, then I would take Waldschmidt and I would say I want Brandon Garcia back in this trade package. 00:37:00 Speaker 1: I'd do that. So if it's just George Kirby for Waldschmidt and Brandon Garcia, you think that's fair? Given the way Kirby's gone the last couple years, yeah. That's a young, very controllable, right-handed hitting outfielder who plays really good defense and a left-handed reliever who's got a chance to be, I'm not mincing my words here, one of the game's best left-handed relievers for a long time. The one issue with that is that that package right there that you laid out is very similar to what the Brewers got back for Corbin Burns with one year of control. Like, do you worry at some point that you are selling George Kirby short if that's the return? Look, you can ask for more, but their market only is what a team agrees to pay. I hope they could get Perdomo for Kirby. That'd be awesome. 00:37:50 Speaker 2: Or if it's Perdomo for Kirby and one of Laz and Arroyo. 00:37:54 Speaker 1: Great. 00:37:55 Speaker 2: You don't know if the Diamondbacks will say yes to that. 00:37:58 Speaker 1: No, I don't. It could be that you get Perdomo and Brandon Garcia for George Kirby plus. Maybe they don't put Waldschmidt in there if you're getting Perdomo. Maybe. 00:38:12 Speaker 2: I think Brandon Garcia is going to be a hard guy to trade for at this point, though. Perdomo and Brandon Garcia, now you're talking about, I mean, again, it's Kirby, it's Laz, and it might be Arroyo. 00:38:25 Speaker 1: Relievers are tradable. They're always tradable, I think. 00:38:27 Speaker 2: Yeah, but you're talking about a really good one that has got a lot of club control. 00:38:32 Speaker 1: He's got about five years of it. I mean, Mason Miller got traded. Yeah. Like, it's always possible to trade for a reliever if you give up enough. Alone. 00:38:41 Speaker 2: Mason Miller got traded for alone for a lot. You're talking about getting BG with Perdomo. 00:38:47 Speaker 1: Okay. I'm just saying, like, there's never a point where a reliever is, like, on the no trade block. Yeah. He's not. But it's not going to be easy. Like, the Mariners will never trade Ryan Sloan. But. I'm sure if you offer the Diamondbacks a package for our guy BG, which I want, because this is what the Mariners need, they'll trade him. Yeah. 00:39:10 Speaker 2: He was striking out 31% of his batters last year, too. 00:39:12 Speaker 1: That's pretty good. 00:39:14 Speaker 2: His savant page, he didn't meet the league qualifiers, but if you just look at what he did, dude, his savant page is very red. 00:39:23 Speaker 1: In a good way. We'd love to have him back. Same. Next question comes from Elliot on Patreon. Elliot's question is, what should Jason Kanzler's first order of business be to fix the clubhouse culture? 00:39:42 Speaker 2: I think he said it in the press conference. He has got to let every single guy on the team and in the organization know what the standard of the Seattle Mariners is and then abide by that and hold that line very tightly. Because if you know what the standard is and you know there's a set of expectations in place and they're firmly in place, then they'll be followed by your players if they really understand what the expectations need to be. So I think that is step number one. 00:40:11 Speaker 1: You and I see this eye to eye. Make everyone aware of the standard they are accountable for. You've got to set it off the bat. You've got to understand what the expectation is going to be of you throughout the season. How he's going to do that, that's going to be a great question for him to answer and learn on the fly because... as I outlined in our social post this morning, he's not going to get a whole lot of contact with his players before they agree to a CBA and probably within a week report down to Arizona. Some of these managers will get an all-off season to hang out with some of their players and get to know them and understand their personalities and their tendencies and spend some quality time with them. Jason Kanzler gets less than four weeks to do that before he literally can't talk to them until whenever they agree to a CBA. They agree to a CBA on May 1st, Well, Jason Kanzler can't talk to them from December 1st to May 1st. So a lot of this, Lyle, is going to be packed into the month of November. Yeah, it is. 00:41:15 Speaker 2: Although I have two follow-ups to that. Number one, this is a question that doesn't have a right answer. Do we think he's going to do the Scott service thing from a couple years ago? You think he'll go visit some of these guys and travel to their home location so he can sit down with them in the next few weeks? Will he travel to the Bay Area to see Brian Wu? Will he travel to Texas to see Bryce Miller? Will he go meet with Logan Gilbert in Florida? 00:41:37 Speaker 1: He could try. He's got to finish his coaching staff first. Might have to do both. 00:41:41 Speaker 2: It's not a lot of time. 00:41:42 Speaker 1: No, there's not. I would do that if I was him. I'm sure there are some guys in the Seattle area, as he was pictured at the Kraken game with the all-star crew of Cal Raleigh, Julio Rodriguez, and Patrick Wisdom all in the same suite. 00:42:00 Speaker 2: Which, by the way... This news flew under the radar yesterday, but the Mariners announced a lot of guys who are now minor league free agents as of Wednesday. Patrick Wisdom is now a minor league free agent, meaning as long as I have this right, he's not in the organization as we currently speak, but he's there. 00:42:17 Speaker 1: But he's invited into the box. I guess. I guess. 00:42:22 Speaker 2: I don't really know what the story there is. 00:42:24 Speaker 1: You're like, are they going to hire him as the hitting coach? Oh boy. That would be something. 00:42:29 Speaker 2: That would really be something one year after, you know, being one of the 10 worst Mariners on the team last year. 00:42:34 Speaker 1: Did you see who else was released? I did. 00:42:38 Speaker 2: That would be one Weston Wilson, which thank God. Again, I'm sure he's a nice guy, but thank God. 00:42:47 Speaker 1: The worry is now out the door. Yeah. Also actually on this note that we're talking about of like what the first things Kinsler has to do. He did break my rule. He broke a rule. Oh no. You hear it? No. He said World Series. 00:43:04 Speaker 2: Well, I think that can be a goal. They were saying. 00:43:07 Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, no. I said I said you can't you can't mention that word until you win your division. 00:43:17 Speaker 2: But they were using it in a different context last year. They were very confident about winning the American League. I think he's just saying their goal is to win the World Series, which that's every team's goal. What, you want to go back to the Howard Lincoln days where he's like, it's not our goal to win the World Series when he said that publicly back in the 2000s? 00:43:36 Speaker 1: I've laid out the rules, Lyle. 00:43:38 Speaker 2: Well, you might want to think on that a little bit. 00:43:40 Speaker 1: No, they're pretty cut and dry. It seems like, It seems like every time someone starts mentioning the World Series around the Seattle Mariners, something bad happens. Well, yeah. 00:43:53 Speaker 2: By the way, do we think Naylor might have been at the Kraken game too yesterday? I don't know, but he feels like he's always at the Kraken games. Yes, but usually he sits on the glass. Well, maybe if he knew his new manager was there and some of his teammates were there, he went up to the suite. 00:44:07 Speaker 1: It's possible. I'm sure Josh Naylor will meet him at some point because I think Naylor lives here full time now. Or at least most of the time. That could be right. Yeah. 00:44:16 Speaker 2: But yeah, I'll be curious if Kanzler travels around at all. 00:44:20 Speaker 1: Next question comes from Alex on Patreon. Alex's question is, did Kanzler's introductory press conference increase or decrease your confidence in him heading into 2027? Increase. 00:44:35 Speaker 2: Because as we talked about earlier, I love the way he spoke. He seemed very detail-oriented. He seems like he has a very clear blueprint for what he wants to do. And again, I said it 20 minutes ago, but the first sign of life I saw from a new manager, you are going to get me. Like, what's the line from Jerry Maguire? You had me at hello. Jason Kanzler had me at hello because he's simply not Dan Wilson. 00:45:00 Speaker 1: So there's that. 00:45:01 Speaker 2: But also, again, just listening to him talk and listening to the answers he provided and getting to know him a little bit yesterday through his press conferences and interviews is Yeah, he sounded like a guy that's a very new school manager and is going to have some real alignment with the front office, which you need. So increase. 00:45:18 Speaker 1: Increase for me because we had never heard him talk before. And all you wanted for it to be was for him not to be a story with his inexperience. And I think that came through. So I have increased confidence in Jason Kinsler for 2027. And to tag on to Lyle, it's not Dan Wilson. He didn't say, um, yeah, you know. But unfortunately, Lyle, I actually... I can't believe we made it this far. We didn't talk about this. This might have to be in the light red flag bucket. He did say tough one. He did, and I felt bad. Poor Jason Kanzler. The man doesn't know the lore. The man doesn't know the history behind tough one or tough one tonight. But you know who did? Jerry and Justin sitting up there on the stand next to him. 00:46:05 Speaker 2: Oh, dude, did you see Hollander when Kanzler said it? If you pay attention, poor Hollander, I don't mean to call him out with this, but he did the same thing all of us sitting at home did when we heard that, which was when he said it, you saw Hollander's head almost immediately snap toward the crowd to kind of gaze for facial reactions in the sense of, Oh, did anybody else pick that up or is. 00:46:29 Speaker 1: This going to die? 00:46:30 Speaker 2: I think Hollander had in his head, oh, please tell me nobody picked up on that. But as soon as I heard that, I was like, oh, that's getting clipped. That is absolutely getting clipped. And it's not Jason, again, it's not Kanzler's fault or Jason Kanzler. He just doesn't know. But as I've said, either if we get to talk to him. 00:46:49 Speaker 1: Well, he'll know now. He'll know now. 00:46:51 Speaker 2: I was going to say, or if he's just online and saw it. He's going to learn very quickly, oh, these words need to be scrubbed from my vocabulary forever. 00:47:01 Speaker 1: They'll probably, like the Mariners and the PR staff will sit down and like, oh, how'd that go? That went good for the most part. But just a reminder to you, Jason, if you see stuff online about you saying tough one, just know that has nothing to do with you. But let's try and scrub that. 00:47:16 Speaker 2: Or, you know, somebody sent us this the other day when I said you better not say tough one tonight ever. Somebody sent us this the other day. Jason Kanzler does have a little bit of a sense of humor. He talked about that. 00:47:29 Speaker 1: What's up? I know what you're about to say. He did not do that on purpose. No, no, no, no. I wasn't going to say he did it on purpose. Oh, okay. I don't think he did it on purpose. Okay. 00:47:38 Speaker 2: But Jason Kanzler does have a little bit of a sense of humor. He talked about that at one point when he was on the radio. Somebody sent us this after he was hired on Tuesday and I said, do not say tough one. What if after the first loss of the Mariners season, Jason Kanzler walks into the interview room and he sits down and he looks out at the media and he's got a straight face on because he's not happy. He just lost his first ever game as Mariners manager. And he sits down and he goes, yeah, tough one tonight. Blank stare, blank stare. And then he cracks a smile. He's like, oh, I got you guys, didn't I? All right, let's take questions. Could you imagine, like, you want to win over the fan base? Could you imagine if he actually did that? That would be hilarious, but he's not going to do that. But he would win over a lot of fans if he did. 00:48:27 Speaker 1: He's not going to do that. He doesn't know. You're right. You just said he doesn't know the lore. I feel like you would have to know the lore for that to be funny. Probably, but if you simply just wanted to win over fans. He might become my favorite Mariners manager of all time if he did that after the first loss. He would win over fans. Do you think... everyone in the org would be pleased if he was like mocking Dan. 00:48:55 Speaker 2: Well, maybe not, but this is why we're dumb podcasters sitting here talking about it. I'm, this is not me saying, this is not me saying I predict cancer is going to do it. I wouldn't put money on it, but just, just what if, what if he did that? It would be one of the funniest things I've ever seen. 00:49:09 Speaker 1: That would be pretty funny. You're right. 00:49:13 Speaker 2: I don't think he does it, but it'd be hilarious. 00:49:15 Speaker 1: It would be. Next question on Patreon comes from Xander Xander. Xander's question is, what would it take for the Reds to listen on Eli De La Cruz for a trade? 00:49:27 Speaker 2: So, hope I don't burst your bubble on this, Xander. I'm going to try not to go too in-depth on this because, like I talked about with some of the Mariners starting pitching stuff and free agency and trade season upcoming... and talking about how we're going to do an episode on that soon. I think we're also going to do an episode here at some point soon on what it would look like if the Mariners truly take a swing at some point this winter, a big swing on a blockbuster trade. And one of the most prevalent names out there whose name's being floated around right now in trades is Ellie, whether he really gets traded or not. So I'm going to try to not dive too far into this because I think we're going to spend a lot of time on it at some point. But I will say to answer your question, If you want the Reds to listen on Ellie de la Cruz, you need to cook up a trade package that legitimately makes you uncomfortable. You need to be essentially squirming in your seat, putting together a trade package because that is what it would take to get three years of Ellie, a trade package that makes you uncomfortable. 00:50:27 Speaker 1: I will throw off. Let me throw a, like a simple trade package to you. And this, this can be for some people to think about until we actually sit down and do this episode. and fully flesh it out. I think to get the Reds to pick up the phone and start listening on L.A. De La Cruz, it would start with George Kirby and Ryan Sloan. 00:50:50 Speaker 2: Oh, I don't think the Reds get anything out of having Kirby. They're a team that's not going to come close to winning in the next two years. I don't think Kirby's a part of this at all. 00:50:58 Speaker 1: So you would say Kate Anderson and Ryan Sloan? 00:51:01 Speaker 2: I would say it's going to cost one... I don't think the Mariners would ever trade both. It would cost you one of your two premier pitching prospects. I think it costs you one of your middle infielders, whether that's Colt or Cole. I think it costs you one of Laz and Arroyo, maybe both, and then you still might have to dip into your farm system. Maybe it costs you one of your catchers. So, sure, think about that right there. Kate Anderson, well, actually, they might want Sloan over Kate to say yes. So, like, think about this. Ryan Sloan, Cole Young... or Colt Emerson, um, Laz and Arroyo. And honestly, maybe throw in Luke Stevenson too. Like, are you okay with that? That is a whole of a trade package. 00:51:49 Speaker 1: Yeah. That's a lot. That's a lot. 00:51:51 Speaker 2: But this is what you're talking about to get a player like Ellie for three years. 00:51:56 Speaker 1: Yeah. And just three years. Cause he's a Boris guy. Yeah. He'll be gone. 00:52:00 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:52:01 Speaker 1: But think about that as we, uh, We'll eventually talk about that on a full episode. Yeah, I guess you're right about not, they wouldn't want any of your starting pitchers. I feel like you might at least want to start with that because you're trying to essentially swap major league value for major league value. But if that's not what they want, that's not what they want. 00:52:25 Speaker 2: Don't you think if they wanted Kirby, they would want Ellie on the team? Because that more signals you're going for it. Yeah, but you could always extend Kirby. It's not like they throw a ton of extensions out there, but he could be on the team for a while. Maybe they want someone who they can keep in town for a handful of seasons, and that is an established starting pitcher who they hope won't fade away. 00:52:50 Speaker 1: Maybe. Just a thought. I think your thought makes more sense, though. 00:52:53 Speaker 2: I don't know if Kirby wants to pitch in Cincinnati, given all the road problems he has. I don't know if he wants his home ballpark being that ballpark. 00:52:59 Speaker 1: I don't think his value would go up very high in that ballpark. I think it would be maybe the worst ballpark outside of Coors for him to pitch in. Yeah. 00:53:07 Speaker 2: Agreed. 00:53:08 Speaker 1: Next question comes from Emma on Patreon. Emma's question is, what are you most excited about with our new manager based on his press conference and vibes? 00:53:18 Speaker 2: Transparency and coherent sentences. Again, you can't really judge what he's going to do on a baseball field yet because you have to see it. I'm excited for him to be transparent and I'm excited to let his baseball mind be seen by Seattle because I think he's very smart. And I am very looking forward to coherent sentences being formed. 00:53:40 Speaker 1: I'm most excited for the youth of the staff, which sort of matches more of the front office. And it matches kind of the age range of the players as well, since it's not the oldest team in the league. But I'm also excited for after a game being able to explain why things are happening. I think that's very important. And I think transparency, you know, starts from top to bottom. And I think it's very healthy for people to, to be transparent. And another thing I really liked is him and, and Hollander, I think both very transparently saying that like, they need to be good because of the fans that pay their salaries. Like we are, we are accountable to, the people who spend all their money to come watch us. And we need to give them reason for that. 00:54:32 Speaker 2: I've always given Hollander a lot of credit for that. He's actually pretty in tune with fans. A lot of GMs struggle with that sort of thing. Hollander seems to really get it. So I always commend him for that. 00:54:44 Speaker 1: I 100% agree. Next question comes from John on Patreon. John's question is, what is your biggest concern this offseason and with free agency for this team? 00:55:01 Speaker 2: That the Mariners are cheap and aren't going to spend enough and are going to leave their roster short. It's kind of the same as always, unfortunately. 00:55:07 Speaker 1: I'll get more specific than that. And I'll say specifically to the outfield that the Mariners will not put the proper use source resources into their left field position because And they will go into next year with an unproven left field that more likely than not will underperform, aka not even be league average either offensively or defensively. That's probably my biggest worry. I would love to be proven wrong that the Mariners could completely upgrade in left field. Maybe upgrade's the wrong term, but like probably stay the course in left field. That's probably what they need. They need like a Randy Rosarena adjacent value in left field. Right. At the start of 2027. I'll be more specific too. 00:55:51 Speaker 2: I just wanted to use that line first because it is the general concern with fans every off season for every good reason. But I will say not enough resources put in the bullpen. Again, they've tried the same thing over and over and over with this bullpen. And now for three years in a row, it hasn't worked. Like we already answered earlier in the podcast, second rider buckets gone. It's not a thing anymore. You have to fix your bullpen. If we learn anything from this postseason, and really every postseason, you have got to have an established bullpen. They don't have even close to an assemblance of one right now. So are they going to pour enough resources. 00:56:28 Speaker 1: Into the bullpen? That's my biggest concern. 00:56:31 Speaker 2: I honestly think there's a world, and everybody's going to have their own different opinions on the offseason, which is totally fine. It's good for that matter. But I honestly believe there's a world that the number one priority of this team is fixing the bullpen. 00:56:45 Speaker 1: OK, I think that's up there. I they did also have the second fewest run scored in baseball last season again and are losing their best offensive player. 00:56:55 Speaker 2: Totally valid reasons to say it's the offense. 00:56:58 Speaker 1: Totally valid. 00:57:00 Speaker 2: But there's also the line of thinking that Cal's not going to repeat the season he had. Naylor's not going to repeat the season he had. Julio should be better than he was in 2026. And then the pendulum swings back a little bit. Donovan should be healthier than for 40 games. So there's that line of thought. Now, I think the Mariners need serious offensive upgrades. 00:57:23 Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong. 00:57:24 Speaker 2: I'm just saying somebody could think along those lines. But that bullpen, you can't. You cannot run this back again. You just can't. You can't rely on Brash, unfortunately. Munoz looked like a shell of himself last year. And you had nobody behind those guys and Spire to pick up the slack at all. 00:57:44 Speaker 1: But I do think it's going to be easier to upgrade the bullpen than upgrade left field. 00:57:49 Speaker 2: I agree with that. My fear is in the Mariners actually addressing it. I don't know if they're going to sit there and say, OK, we got to pour resources into this bullpen. rather than they're just going to say, well, we're smart. We'll figure out the right guys to put in the bullpen. We'll just, we'll, we'll find, we'll find low cost guys off waivers and, and in small trades and just have. 00:58:12 Speaker 1: It all work out. 00:58:13 Speaker 2: You can't do that anymore. You proven you cannot establish a bullpen over the last three years. 00:58:18 Speaker 1: Yeah. Next question on Patreon comes from Cameron. Cameron's question is going into the soft season. The Mariner said they were looking for a manager with experience, yet they hired someone. With no experience for the role, why did the front office decide to go with this instead of a more tenured manager? 00:58:36 Speaker 2: I think there's two reasons. Number one, Jason Kanzler wasn't at the top of the Mariners' list in terms of their priorities. But once the other guys they were really interested in bowed out, Tori Lavella went back to the Diamondbacks, Rocco Baldelli withdrew his name. If there was interest in Steven Vogt, it didn't happen. If there was interest in Alex Cora, it didn't happen because Cora doesn't seem to be taking a job anywhere in this cycle. So once you get past all those guys, it's very clear that Kanzler in their minds was the best guy for the job. And that's what this should be about is hiring the best guy for the job. 00:59:10 Speaker 1: Um, yes, I, I agree with most of those things, but also remember Jerry said at the beginning of the off season, that experience was preferred, but not required. And ultimately they wanted to hire a person with the same values that they were looking for in this job. And I think Kanzler is the guy who has the values, at least through the interview process, the execution of it to be determined, to manage the baseball team in 2027. I think that's it. And being open-minded. You don't interview 30 candidates or talk to 30 candidates without being open-minded to some. And along the way, you will discover guys you might have not thought would be great at this who seem to actually have their shit together. Keep in mind... As we said at the beginning, though, the experience thing... won't like, we won't say, say either, or like a positive or negative about the prior experience, um, until the games actually start. Like you never know. Like it keeps getting made the point that most of the managers in, uh, in the playoffs this year had not managed before. 01:00:15 Speaker 2: A lot of the best managers in the game. Steven voted, never managed before he took the job in Cleveland. Dave Roberts had never managed before he took, before he took the job, the job with the Dodgers. Craig Council had never managed before he took the job with the Brewers and then the Cubs. Kevin Cash had never managed before he took the job with the Rays. Some of the best managers are first-time managers. You don't know if Kanzler will be that, but that's the hope. Your hope is he's in that bucket with those guys. Also, apparently, we didn't mention this earlier either. Apparently, the Mariners did interview Jason Kanzler for a hitting coach role about five years ago. And that's not the manager's job. But apparently, even back then, they came away very, very impressed. And they just couldn't poach him away from Houston, is what they said. So he's been on their radar for a while. 01:01:04 Speaker 1: Do you know what I couldn't get over today? Adam Jude was telling the story on foul territory that Jason Kanzler was notified by Jed Hoyer that the Mariners wanted to interview him. And Jed didn't tell Kanzler what the job was. And it took him five guesses, like somewhere around five guesses, for him to guess which role the Mariners were interviewing him for. 01:01:31 Speaker 2: Wasn't on his radar. But again, sometimes you don't always realize until you jump into things. 01:01:37 Speaker 1: Or until you do it. Right. He actually gets out on the field and he manages for the first time. So we'll see. In April, hopefully April, maybe May, maybe June. We'll find out. I think we'll be fine. I hope so. 01:01:52 Speaker 2: I'm not that worried about it, but that's a topic for another day. 01:01:56 Speaker 1: Wrapping up the mailbag with Michael on Patreon. Michael's question is, speaking of the lockout with the lockout pending, do you think players in general are motivated to get a deal done before the lockout happens or that players might wait until there is a new deal in place? 01:02:11 Speaker 2: I think most of these players want to sign before the lockout because there is some uncertainty about what the format of baseball will look like in terms of contracts once the lockout's over. Scott Boris has been very public talking about that. He thinks it's in all the players' best interest to sign before the lockout. So you're grandfathered in under the old system. I think the month of November, and especially that final week before the lockout, is going to be chaos in terms of the hot stove. And a deadline gives you negotiating pressure. It gives you a lot of negotiating. Whenever you have a deadline, it forces action. That's why the trade deadline is so active, because teams don't want to miss out on something. So when the deadline of the CBA expiring is like creeping up on you, that's going to force a lot of action from teams and with forced action can come with more negotiating power for players and they can get more money out of it. 01:03:04 Speaker 1: Yeah. A hundred percent. 01:03:06 Speaker 2: The Mariners signed Robbie Ray with about a day before the lockout. 01:03:10 Speaker 1: It wasn't long. He essentially fell into their lap. He was someone that I think was fully intent on signing before the deadline and The story was the Mariners wanted Kevin Gosman. They couldn't get him. He signed with the Blue Jays instead. And Robbie Ray's like, hey, I want to sign before the deadline too. And the Mariners are like, great, here's your contract. And he took it. Yeah. And there wasn't much, oh, you have to come to Seattle. You have to come all the way up in the Northwest and you're going to spend all year on a plane, yada, yada, yada. It's all cold and rainy and not always great for getting loose when you're pitching. Robbie Ray was like, oh, deal, I'm here. 01:03:48 Speaker 2: Yeah. 01:03:49 Speaker 1: And maybe the Mariners can have something like that happen to them again and benefit them. 01:03:55 Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. 01:03:56 Speaker 1: I hope so. 01:03:57 Speaker 2: It's going to be an interesting month. 01:03:59 Speaker 1: Yeah. Good mailbag questions. 01:04:01 Speaker 2: You guys always bring it with the mailbag questions and they're interesting, especially in a time where the hot stove is really about to pick up and the Mariners have a new manager. There's a lot to talk about. So shout out to you guys as always for all the good questions. If you want priority on questions, you guys know you can go to patreon.com And if you sign up, you get priority every single week. With that, that'll just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Layer Podcast. You guys know the drill. If you want to listen to the full-form podcast, you can do so wherever you get your audio pods. Just make sure you go rate and review if you're listening to the episodes. Please leave a five stars if you do so. It helps a ton. You can also make sure to go hit that subscribe button on YouTube if you're watching the podcast and you like the video aspect of it. Find us at our website, which is marinelayerpod.com. You can find our Patreon there. You can find all of our podcast merch there. You can find our episodes all there. Again, that's marinelayerpod.com. And then check us out all across social media at marinelayerpod. 01:04:55 Speaker 1: That's TJ. I'm Lyle. 01:04:57 Speaker 2: As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon.