Episode 65: Dave 'Softy' Mahler (93.3 KJR), And 2023 Mariners Starting Pitching Grades

00:00:00 Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number sixty five of the Marine Layer Podcast. We welcome on Dave Softy Mauler, a recurring guest. We'll talk to him about the Mariners off season, his All Star Game antics, and a few other topics. We also have our Mariners starting pitching grades for the twenty twenty three season. 00:00:18 Speaker 2: You're reminder if you're listening to this podcast to go check us out on YouTube. We're on YouTube. We've got a video side to the pod. You can go like, comment, subscribe, and turn the notification bells on over there. And if you're watching on YouTube, listen to us too, when you're on a walk, when you're at the gym, driving in the car, on Apple, on Spotify, Google, Amazon. If you do that, you can follow us, download our episodes, leave us a five star review. The reviews the downloads really help us out big time. And then on social media, we've been active all off season. We're going to keep it that way. Check us out on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, and YouTube shorts at marine Layer Pod. 00:00:52 Speaker 1: Let's get it rolling, and we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast network. Recording here on Sunday, October eighth. You'll be hearing this when Lyle and I are on vacation. I'm sure we're having a blast right now. 00:01:20 Speaker 2: Oh, if people are listening to this on Wednesday, we're probably somewhere on either Coney Island or in Dumbo. I think that's the itinerary for the first day. So far, the weather looks pretty good, so hopefully people are enjoying their time off in the offseason. Hopefully it's not Rangers Astros in the ALCS, although it seems like it might be that way as we sit here recording right now. 00:01:40 Speaker 1: I think that's pretty unfortunate. But in the meantime, if you're like us and don't want to watch Rangers Astros, we have our starting pitching grades for the Mariners for the twenty twenty three season for you on this fine day. So let's get into it first. Up, Lyle, let's start off with the ace of the staff. What is your twenty twenty three grade for Luis Castillo? 00:02:06 Speaker 2: So I debated back and forth with this. What I ended on for Luis was an A minus, and I gave him an a minus because he's still going to probably finish top five in al Cy Young voting he had a great era three thirty four, like a bunch of his peripherals were great. His basketball, by the way, was awesome this year, but I just can't get over the fact that some of his underlying numbers were not great. One and then two. I'm sorry, but those last two starts do knock him down a little bit for me, because when they needed him the most, he just was not there. We talked about it. That Saturday start was his worst one as a Mariner. So he is your ace, He's the guy you expect to be your ace. But look, he's still had a really good year, and a minus is a really good year, but it just wasn't quite the A. I thought it was going to be about a month ago, so I gave him an A minus. 00:02:53 Speaker 1: I had him at an A until those last two starts. Even if he wasn't gonna win the Cy Young, I still thought he had an a warth season. But those last two starts, to be honest, dinged him down a whole grade because you sign him to that contract, you trade for him to pitch in those starts, and he was not good enough. In fact, not only not good enough, just not competitive overall, though, like you mentioned, a great season for Luis Castillo, there were some interesting trends you mentioned, the underlying trends were not great this year. As a guy Castillo who throws a sinker and throws a change up and gets is supposed to get a lot of ground balls, lowest ground ball rate of his career in a full season. His expected numbers across the board were the highest since his first full big league season in twenty eighteen. And we like fangrafts war he was tenth, even if he's going to finish top five in cy Young in an accumulation stat like war, he was tenth, and he's pretty much a full two wins behind the top three. I would guess in the American League, side Young at the top, that's a pretty big gap, isn't it. 00:04:05 Speaker 2: It is a big gap. And it's just weird because for so long Luis Castillo's change up was his best pitch. I don't know what's happened to it over the last couple of seasons, especially this year, but he's just kind of lost it. The trade off to that is, while he's kind of lost his change up, his fastball has only gotten better. And better. And look at what he did with his fastball this year. It was awesome. I mean it was toward the top of the league in terms of fastball run value. The thing is his change up was at negative nine, which for a guy that had it in the twenties for a lot of his career. In terms of run value, I don't know, it just totally fell off, and guys hit it hard this year too, so he's evolved a little bit as a pitcher in that way. It is too bad because if he still had his change up, he'd probably just be another level elevated. But that did hurt him this year, the lack of. 00:04:49 Speaker 1: The change and there's a combination of that too. You mentioned the run value on that change up. He also threw his change up less than he's ever he ever has in his career, at just fifteen percent. In fact, I think only he's only thrown one pitch in his career less than he threw his change up this season. And just to think of that, run value is not a rate stat, it's a total stat. It's an accumulation stat. So he managed to have a negative nine run value on that pitch despite throwing it the fewest he's thrown of any pitch in his career, which is troubling. And if you think about it this way as well, he threw his fastball more. His fastball is a great pitch. But when most of your pitches you're relying on, like your sinker and your fastball, which he throws a majority of the time, are thrown hard, then that's going to lead you to getting hit harder. And that reflected in some of the numbers he had and hard hit radios thirty percentile, bear rate twenty fifth percentile. And when you throw your pitches hard and up in the strike zone, that's going to lead to less ground balls as well, and leads to the low ground ball rate that I mentioned earlier as well. And against some team it doesn't work out, and it didn't work out the final two starts of the twenty twenty three season. It strikeout wise still great, twenty seven percent strikeout rate, seven percent walk rate. When you're trading for a guy and giving up blue chip prospects, this is the kind of season you're having. If this is the kind of season you have, you're thrilled. You're absolutely thrilled. The Mariners have him under contract for a number of more years after this. But sometimes when you need your guys to step up and do a little bit more, you expect it out of guys like Luis Castillo and I and I don't think he did it. And it's unfortunate because just a month ago we thought he's going to finish second in cy Young and not anymore. He's probably gonna finish fourth or fifth, if that, I. 00:06:49 Speaker 2: Would guess, still in the top five. And look, we're making it sound like we gave Castillo a C. We're not like you got an A minus for the year. Again, his basketball run value was in the one hundredth percentile of the league, so toward the very very top of the league. Guys hit won sixty five against it. His year as a whole was still really good. You're talking about a dude that ranked fifth among AL starters in ERA, top fifteen in Baseball and ERA. He's still had a great year. But TJ's absolutely right. If this was one season ago, we're probably giving Luis an A because you look at what he did at the end of the year. Last year, that Blue Jays start in the playoff game, one of his best starts ever, one of the best Mariner starts ever. He was still solid against the Astros too. At the end of the year. In twenty twenty two, Luis did exactly what he was supposed to do, just wasn't the case this year, and it knocked him down a letter grade. So by the way, I gave him a minus. You didn't say exactly what you gave him. Is it an a minus or places? 00:07:41 Speaker 1: Yeah, I gave him an as, okay, So. 00:07:44 Speaker 2: We're about on the same page there, which all by all accounts is a really good season for Luise. Our hope is just come twelve months from now he picks he picks up the gears a little bit as September October roll around. I think that's fair, right. 00:07:57 Speaker 1: Yeah, his numbers last year, the expected numbers are pretty similar to this season. He's just had some interesting results season by season. The starters do have season by season variants with the results. His expected numbers have honestly been pretty similar throughout the years, so I think this year also is just a little bit. You know, we talk about the Bell curve of results on this was more on the poorer side of results for Luis and I it would be shocked if as era goes back lower, closer to what he had a season ago in twenty twenty two opposed to what he had in twenty twenty three. It was tracking that way, but the final two starts of the season really kind of kind of dawned on him there, and that's unfortunate for him because the Mariners needed him. They continued to label him as the ace, and unfortunately in the two biggest starts of the season didn't pitch like it. 00:08:49 Speaker 2: I will give him credit for this though, as we wrap up, Luise, I know this is kind of a boomer stat, but he threw almost two hundred innings in fact, each of the first three Mariner starters did. That still goes for something. The fact such a workhorse he made all of his starts. That matters. 00:09:04 Speaker 1: Yeah, you had three workhorses in the rotation, and that's gonna be a plus on all three of these guys. Will we'll talk to all those three guys in order. I would like I think you think about this. It's like, are they gonna get the two hundred innings all three of them next year? Maybe? Rotations don't usually have three two hundred innings starters. Not in today's game, and the Mariners have three guys who are very, very very close to hitting that mark. I think the leader in innings this year was well, Garrett call at two hundred and nine, I think that's it. 00:09:35 Speaker 2: And Luis had one ninety seven, so not far off. 00:09:38 Speaker 1: Yeah, that it's It's crazy how it's dropped off and we sit here and look at it. It's like, well, actually, we thought Louis pitched a decent amount of innings, and think about this. If he if he just pitched his pitch to normal six innings start each of his final two starts of the season, he's at two hundred innings. He's over two hundred innings. 00:09:55 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's pretty wild. Before we get to our next start, our quick word here from our friends over at Pigotcha's Pub eighty five, So Pagotcha's Pub eight five in Kirkland. Look, guys, there's still MLB playoff games going on, there's still college football going on, there's still the NFL going on. Basketball and hockey are about to start. What do we say on our last show for Speak Your Mind? October is the best month of the year for sports. So if you're looking for somewhere to watch. Head over there. Head over to Pagatcha's Pub eighty five. It's just east of four oh five. It's got some good parking, some awesome pizza, some awesome drinks, and if you're looking to get there a little bit early, you'll be in luck because they've got some happy hour specials Monday through Friday. They They're happy hours are two to six pm, which include three dollars domestic beers, four dollars Manny's Blue Moons, four dollars Mac and Jack's, four dollars wells, and four dollar house wines. So if you want some great food, some great drinks, an awesome place to hang out with some friends, go over to Pagatcha's Pub eighty five in Kirkland. You can't recommend it enough. Second starter George Kirby second season, his first full season in the big leagues TJ What's his Great? 00:11:00 Speaker 1: I gave him an A different from Luis because it is George's first full season in the big leagues and we entering the season we could not hold him to an ace expectation, so that's why he gets an A. Also, down the stretch, George Kirby was not an issue he pitched just fine in the final ten days of the season when the Mariners needed him the most. In fact, if you think about it this way, he had a blow up start on June seventh versus the Padres. Since that mark, George Kirby went six or more innings in fourteen of nineteen starts to finish the season. That's consistency right there. And he did also end up leading the American League with the or sorry, ended up leading baseball with the lowest walk rate in baseball. So there's a lot of things that you expected with George Kirby at the start of the season, and I think he met most of them. We can nitpick here and there, but in the end, George Kirby finished does a top six, top five starter in the American League and his expectation going into next season is to win a Cy Young. That qualifies as an A grade for me. 00:12:11 Speaker 2: We're two for two here. I gave Kirby an A and he's different than Luise. He doesn't strike out as many guys as Luise. That is something Kirby can still improve on. But when you do everything that he does between the command, the hard fastball, everything and not to mention. The fact that he had almost a full win higher than Luise in terms of F four, that does stand for something. Their eras are pretty similar. But the fact Kirby had a full win above Castillo, that's gonna bump him up a grade. And we saw what he did with his fastball this year. We're talking about fastball run value again, Well, he didn't strike a ton of guys out. His fastball run value is in the ninety eight percent tile of the league. He throws it extremely hard. He has pinpoint command with Eddie, has pinpoint command with basically all of his pitches. And not just not only did he lead baseball and walk rad, he led baseball walks for nine too. What was his walks per nine, you ask, Well, it was less than one zero point nine that led baseball. I think George Kirby is an ACE at this point, and I think he absolutely absolutely deserves the A grade that we're giving him. 00:13:15 Speaker 1: I think if George Kirby gets in a next year, I'm gonna need to see a plus plus secondary out of him. If we're gonna hold him to an ACE level pitcher, plus plus secondary pitches needed. He has plus secondary pitches. His splitter this year, he only threw at six percent of the time, but he got a forty one percent strikeout rate on that pitch. But all of his other off speed pitches, the strikeout rates on all of those pitches were just in the teens, which doesn't quite cut it for an ACE level pitcher. You need to go to pitch to certainly get guys out. His fastball was good in that retrospect, his splitter was great. The rest of his pitches were very eh. So we see George Kirby having some of these blowouts blow up starts. I mentioned the Padres start. Remember in that start, the pot just started hammering him. He was throwing it so much. He's throwing so many of his pitches in the strike zone, and the Padres just kept barreling it up. That's a problem when you have a control pitcher who doesn't have a definite pitch to get a swing and miss in the strike zone. Occasionally he's just going to get hit around because these are big league hitters and they can hit pitches that are thrown in the strike zone. Well, if George Kirby develops a pitch like his splitter that he's comfortable throwing more than six percent of the time it starts in the zone, ends out of the zone and hitters are flailing at it, then that's really a step towards becoming an ace. But he's got all the other peripherals down in that sense. 00:14:37 Speaker 2: He could use at a little bit more swinging mess, that's for sure. I also don't think his September was great. His final couple starts were great, but he had a stretch there too where he was really getting knocked around. So that's an area where Kirby can improve. And look, we're nitpicking. Every starter goes through a rough patch in the season. Kirby included in September. Again, he wasn't as good as he was in some other months. The last two starts he was, but he had some trouble in the month of September and a little bit of late August too, So if you want to look at that, yeah, that's an area where finish the season strong would be something people can watch for in the coming years. But we're talking about a guy that had his first full season under his belt this year. We're again, I can't stress it enough, we're nitpicking. George Kirby was George Kirby was the best picture on the staff this year, especially by war he was the best picture on the staff, and I think when you look at a lot of factors, he was the best pitcher on the staff. So what does he do going into next year, Well, kind of like you just alluded to TJ, if he gets one of those off speed pitches to become more of a with pitch, that takes him up to an A plus. If he can really repeat what he did this year and only add to his arsenal in terms of the swing and miss he's getting because he already finished sixth in the American League and F four this year, he's probably gonna finish top five to seven and cy Young voting. But he can continue, he can continue to take even more steps, which is what's so exciting about Kirby and what shows people that while he's in an A right now now, he could get up to an A plus. Hear sooner rather than later. 00:16:04 Speaker 1: And we learned in September he had to get better emotionally as well. He in September when things weren't going great, we saw that side of George Kirby come out publicly to the media. And show frustration, and now he has experienced that, like Jared has experienced frustration, and some of the other guys on this team that didn't voice it publicly publicly have experienced frustration as well. It's only natural, it's only human. For George Kirby when he's out there on the mound looks kind of like a robot. He's just extremely locked in. So now he's got that under his belt as well, and we expect next year probably not to be complaining about coming out after ninety pitches. We would think. 00:16:44 Speaker 2: Probably not if I had to bet, I think he's learned his lesson and I think he'll probably keep that stuff in house if he has issues with it. But for all we know, he'll be even more built up next year. So for all we know, he could be extending his pitch count into the triple. I mean, he extended his pitchcown a lot this year, but he may be even more built up to the point next year where he's going even deeper into games, which is crazy to think about because he already goes deep in the game so often. But we could see George Kirby throw a handful of cgs next year. 00:17:14 Speaker 1: All those innings and he didn't even crack two hundred. But I think we both expect him to hit two hundred innings next year. I'd be kind of surprised if George Kirby doesn't make every start next year. If he makes every start next year and doesn't cross two hundred innings, If he doesn't, maybe something's wrong. But we'll have to see. So George Kirby A from me, a from you as well. 00:17:35 Speaker 2: Yeah, he gets today, and again he's the only building he can only get. I think he can only get better from here. 00:17:42 Speaker 1: Last note for me on Kirby. He was one of just eleven starters with a strikeout minus walk percentage of over twenty percent. And if you look at the other starters in that list, they're all strikeout guys. George Kirby's the opposite. He's just not a walk guy. 00:17:56 Speaker 2: Right. Do we think he turns into a strikeout guy some point? 00:18:01 Speaker 1: Could me he's not gonna be Specter Strider ever? Probably not. That's a that's a pretty high bar to clear. But could he go from the twenty two percent he's at now to twenty eight percent? 00:18:14 Speaker 3: Sure? 00:18:15 Speaker 1: I don't see. I don't see why not. 00:18:17 Speaker 2: So is Keith per nine are at eight point one right now? Could it get up to closer to ten at some point? Is what I'm getting at. Yeah, Okay, I think so too. 00:18:29 Speaker 1: He throws too hard not to velocity is good. Velocity equals better breaking stuff as well most of the time. 00:18:35 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd agree. 00:18:39 Speaker 4: This fall, stream your favorites and discover more with Disney Plus, Hulu and ESPN Plus together. Watch the highly anticipated new season of Loki and see the ghost materialize in Haunted Mansion on Disney Plus. 00:18:53 Speaker 1: Catch more frights. 00:18:54 Speaker 4: With the Boogeyman, an American horror story delegate on Hulu and on ESPN Plus. Get into the action with college football and NFL. All of these and more streaming now. Get to Disney Bundle with plans starting at nine ninety nine a month, plans with ESPN Plus starting at fourteen ninety nine a month. Terms apply. See Disney Bundle dot com for details. 00:19:19 Speaker 1: Okay, let's get to our third pitcher, Logan Gilbert. What is your grade for Logan Gilbert this season? 00:19:27 Speaker 2: I give Logan An a minus and we talked about it. Another awesome year. His era was a little bit higher than Luis and George's was, so that's something you have to take into account, although I will say his peripherals were pretty similar to Luise. Look, Logan's another guy that just pounded the strike zone this year. He wasn't walking anybody. While he wasn't at George Kirby level, he wasn't far off Is walks Per nine ranked fourth in baseball, which was a massive step for Logan this year. Another guy that threw nearly two hundred innings and he just took another step, like when the Mariners needed him down the stretch. He had some pretty good starts towards the end. So Logan Gilbert again. He can continue to get better, just like Kirby can. But I gave him an as. 00:20:09 Speaker 1: For the year, I give him a B plus, mostly because I'm judging him like slight on his shelf. I guess slightly above Kirby since Logan already had a full season under his belt. And Logan, I think did what we wanted to see in the off season, so he you know, we wanted to see a comfortable secondary pitch. He did it. His slider plus fifteen run value this year this season after it was zero last year, and that helped his arsenal evolve immensely. It helped him down the stretch. It helped him not be how he was as a rookie, where he only had his fastball and he was just trying to just throw fastball, throw fastball, throw fastball, and really struggle at times to get swings and misses. Well, that wasn't the case with his slider. The other thing, though, I look at a lot of his hard hits stuff, that that's where I think it drops into the B minus, because I think one thing we really wanted to see was him to get hit a little less hard. His hard hit rate was in the eleventh percentile, which is an improvement from his previous two seasons, but still not great, and it leaves him susceptible to some issues against incertain matchups. So that's I guess where I had there. He still had a great season, over one hundred and ninety innings, three point two fangrafts wins above replacement, walked us four point seven percent of his batters, and is expected era is expected fit. All very good. But I thought, you know, if I was going to give him an A anywhere anywhere in the A, I wanted to see him as good as Kirby, but he wasn't quite as good as Kirby's, soho had to go in. He had to go a notch below. 00:21:51 Speaker 2: His f war was pretty similar to Luise. It was just like a tick or two lower, which is why I still gave him the A minus. I was like, well, if I'm gonna give Luise an a minus, by Logan would warrant the same grade. And what did it for me is, well, you're right. The reason it's not an A or an A plus is because he was still getting hit hard. His fastball wasn't as valuable as it's been in years past, where he did get hit a little harder on that four seamer than he has in the previous couple of years. But what really did it for me is what we saw had a Logan Gilbert last year was he got off to a roaring, hot, hot start. He was the pitcher of the month in April. He was really good through those first six to eight weeks, and then he hit a wall for a little bit and he was really struggling for a bit, and he was really struggling for a bit, and it took him a bit to get out of that. This year, I just felt like we had such a model of consistency for Logan Gilbert. It wasn't big hills and valleys, it wasn't an unknown in terms of what you were going to get. Sure, he had his bad starts, just like everybody does, but it was much more. You knew much more what you were getting, And that is what I liked out of Logan Gilbert, and that way, I thought he took a huge step because again, there was just so much more. I used consistent and see again because that's what it was. You knew what you were going to get out of the guy almost every single night. So I really appreciated that, along with his innings going way up. So that's what bumped it to an a minus for me. 00:23:12 Speaker 1: And yeah, that's a that's a that's a good reason. So next year I would say my two do list for Logan like George throw the splitter more. Logan liked George. When he threw his splitter, he got a forty six percent strikeout right on that pitch. Now, his command of that pitch escaped him at times, which is why he didn't throw it quite as much. And his slider right was pretty good, so he felt just as comfortable, if not more comfortable, throwing that pitch, which was his second most used pitch behind his fastball this season. Again, we'd like to see his fastball get back to the values he had each of his first two major league seasons, where it was plus twelve last year and plus nineteen and twenty twenty one. And it was also his worst pitch getting whiffs and getting strikeouts, which if that's your pitcher throwing the most, that's not a great combination there. So I think we'd like to see Logan get a little bit of that fastball back, especially since he is someone who has a like one hundred percentile extension because he's six' six and he still throws, hardy throws over ninety six miles an hour, consistently so you'd think that would lead to a good, fastball and it had his first two, seasons but this season it just didn't work out that. 00:24:33 Speaker 2: WAY i just wonder if some of the time run value stuff can kind of go up and down from year to, year because we Know Logan gilbert doesn't have a bad, fastball but for whatever, reason it wasn't clicking for him this. Year maybe we'd have to do some digging on. That it's just weird because, again like his fastball is a good, pitch it's just over the course of twenty twenty three had issues with. 00:24:54 Speaker 1: It, YEAH i think that is a that is a deep. Dive it's Like luis's CHA i, Mean Scott servis And Jerry depoto probably still Think luis's change up is still pretty good, pitch but hasn't worked out as much in A mariner. UNIFORM i mean that pitch again went from plus twenty eight to now minus nine in the span of four seasons. 00:25:14 Speaker 2: With, LOGAN i will say you mentioned his. Slider can we stop and dive in on that a little bit more for a, second because what a step that pitch. Took you want to talk about how last year it was right at, zero so it was about league. Average look at the jump from twenty one to twenty. Three twenty twenty, one it was. Disastrous when he threw a. Slider his run value was negative nine on that. PITCH i think was getting hit all over the. Place look at now it was in the ninety ninth percent or, sorry not ninety, ninth but ninety fifth percentile of breaking ball run. Value that's a really good slider that he, threw and those are massive jumps that he's taken in just a two year stretch when as a rookie he just couldn't land. 00:25:52 Speaker 1: It and we're gonna draw some comparisons With Bryce miller season when we get to him, next but exactly that pitch is one of the biggest reasons he had all the success this. Season one last note for me On Logan, gilbert AND i THINK i don't know if people appreciate this. Enough this dude has made every single start he's been penciled for since he, debuted every single. One that's pretty. Rare you draft a guy in the first. Round he's in the big leagues within three, seasons and then he's essentially now has full three full big league, seasons and he has not missed a single. Start he has been. Durable he's gone out there every. Time we haven't heard a peep from. Him we didn't have to talk About Logan gilbert complaining about getting yanked after ninety. Pitches he's just gone out there and he's done his. Job no matter what kind of stuff he has that, night he's gone out. There he's picked up the rock and he's done his best to make the team go forward and. 00:26:46 Speaker 2: Win i'll tell you what when we did hear from him WHEN i talked to him this, YEAR a plus. Dude we give him AN a minus for a. Season great on the, NOUN a plus. Dude such a good guy with. Everybody and you're, right he doesn't come, plane he doesn't call out his teammates anything like. That and on top of, that WHICH i think is like the bare minimum that you you, know you don't put quotes out there to the, media don't throw your teammates under the bus. Publicly it's nothing like that With. Logan in, fact it couldn't be more the. Opposite he is just an, awesome, awesome down to earth. Guy it's Like scott And jerry always talk, about he's the nicest dude ever when he's off the, mound and then as soon as he hits the, mound nobody wants to be near him because he looks like he wants to kill. 00:27:24 Speaker 1: Somebody what Does logan need to do next year to repeat this? 00:27:28 Speaker 2: GRADE i think he has to keep up with his. SLIDER i think the slider has to stay at least, consistent even if it's not quite as good this next year as it was this, year somewhere in the same. BALLPARK i think he has to get his fastball, back AND i do think the strikeouts could go up a little. Bit so his strike like his case per nign it's not. Bad it was just under. Nine But logan's a guy that has good enough stuff where it could be higher than. That SO i think it would be those three things that could really take him a step above next. Year oh and by the, way he keeps throw strikes the lay throwing. 00:28:01 Speaker 1: Them he sits right now fifty eighth percentile and strikeout. Rate remember we do have to take into context the strikeout environment of the league, itself so about twenty THREE i think it's twenty three point eight percent is league, average so he's slightly above. AVERAGE i think we both agree his stuff has the potential for him to be well above, Average so maybe seventieth, percentile maybe a little bit higher than, that if he's going to take that next step forward on top of continuing to throw strikes and again somehow managing to limit the hard. Contact because If logan really wants to take a step and become An All star and all, that you can't be getting hit hard within the bottom ten percent of. Baseball it's really difficult to pull it off when some of these opportunities teams can just jump in the box and hit you pretty. Hard SO i think that's WHERE i stand on. That regardless, Though Logan gilbert another excellent twenty and twenty three. Season before we get to our final two pictures of this starting picture grades for a twenty twenty three, season let's hear From betterhelp is something interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your, goals regardless if you have a clinical mental health issue like depression or, anxiety or you're a human who lives in this world and is going through a hard, time therapy can give you the tools to approach your life in a very different. Way and that's Why i'm excited to tell you about today's, Sponsor Better. Help betterhelp's mission is to make therapy more affordable and more. Accessible this is an important message because finding a therapist can be really, hard especially when you're limited to options in your. Area betterhelp is a platform that makes finding a therapist easier because it's, online it's, remote and by filling out a few. Questions betterhelp can match you with a professional therapist and a little in as little as a few. Days it's easy to sign up and get matched with a. Therapist there's a link in our. Description it's betterhelp dot com Slash Marine layer. Pod that's BETTER hlp dot com Slash Marine Layer. Pot clicking that link helps support this, podcast but also gets you ten percent off your first month Of Better, help so you can connect with a therapist and see if it helps. You so if your struggl, link consider online therapy with Better. Help click the link in the description or visit betterhelp dot com Slash Marine Layer. Pot, Okay Lyle Bryce, miller what is your great for him for the twenty twenty three. 00:30:26 Speaker 2: Season i'm gonna follow that question with a, question are we grading him on a curve or? 00:30:32 Speaker 1: NOT i have Him he's not great on a curve for? 00:30:37 Speaker 2: Me, okay SO i didn't either and not on a. CURVE i put him at A b. Minus and, Look Bryce miller had his struggles second half of the. Year you could see he started to hit a little bit of a. Wall his fastball started to get hit. Hard the league figured him out a little, bit which is pretty normal for a, rookie but when you look at what he did as a, Whole first, off the fact that he probably was not expected to throw as much as he this, year but the Fact Robbie ray went down they needed a permanent replacement once he Got Tommy john and it Was Bryce miller who stepped in and pitched like an above average big league starter over the course of the time that he was in the, majors which is a lot to ask for out of a rookie making the jump from DOUBLE a MIGHT i, add but he did. That you're talking about a guy that among al rookie starters he was second IN f, four only Behind tanner byby that stands for. Something among all, rookies he was. Fifth and he wasn't walking guys. Either Bryce miller was not, perfect but The mariners weren't even close to making the postseason without, him SO i gave him A b. 00:31:34 Speaker 1: Minus in an ideal, World Bryce MILLER i think comes up in the bullpen this year and fills, out not not in An Eduardo bizardo, role, like oh maybe in that, slot like six guy in the. Bullpen. PROBABLY i think that's what we. Thought at some point this season he was gonna, occupy but he ends up getting shoved into rotation and for most of the season does. WELL i gave him A c. PLUS i think he got bumped down a grade because of his final two starts of the. SEASON i know he was out of, gas The mariners needed, games and If i'm going to be objective and not great on a, CURVE i think that's fair to bump him down because of those. Two but, regardless just think about some of the things he did really. Well first of, all came up and he threw a ton of. Strikes rookies struggle with, command sometimes he did. Not he threw a lot of pitches in the strike. Zone sometimes he got. Hammered but sometimes he would have these outings where he would he would be in probably the top five percent of baseball in getting. Whiffs there's a couple of, starts like against The angels In august or against The rays In. July he comes out or actually that was at the end Of. June, regardless same, series he comes out and he flashes stuff that would rate in the top five percent of, baseball and he'd get twenty swings and misses in the span of four or five. Innings which isn't easy to, do But Bryce miller showed at times he can do, that and he can do it in a starting role as. Well, however there were too many times where he'd come, out he wouldn't have enough swing of, miss he wouldn't have feel for any of his other pitches besides his, fastball and then when he'd get into the fourth or fifth, inning his velocity would dip and he'd start to get hit around a little. Bit my to do list For bryce feeler this. Offseason feel comfortable with one of your off speed pitches that you are one hundred percent dialed into, throw because that wasn't where he was at this. Season it gave a lot Of Logan gilbert twenty twenty one vibes where he just didn't trust any of his off speed pitches enough to help him get out of counts down the stretch of the. 00:33:36 Speaker 2: Season And logan's, fastball at least by run value was actually a lot better Than Bryce miller's was as a whole in terms of their two rookie seasons when you compare, them which is Why logan at least by the era might have had. WELL i guess their eres were fairly close when they were both. Rookies but you're right that there are similarities between twenty twenty One Logan gilbert and twenty twenty Three Bryce. Miller i'm in the same boat as. You For bryce to take the next step next, year he has to learn a true third. PITCH i know he threw a few different pitches over the course of the. Year some of them were just scattered, in but he needs a true third. Pitch if he's gonna stick with the fastball on the, slider that's, great but there's got to be some other offering that he can get to that really gets swing and miss and can be. Effected because what do most starters? Need they usually need three. Pitches obviously there's the guys that are, exceptions Like Tyler glass, now but most guys need three. Pitches so if You're Bryce, MILLER i think the off season's got to be dedicated to, learning whether it's refining the change, up adding a, splitter something like, that to really get some bite on his pitches rather than sweep or just heat and find ways to get swing and. 00:34:43 Speaker 1: MISS i think a slider needs to be better. Too it was. Fine it was slightly above, average results wise on run value not a perfect, estimator but plus three is not a true out. Pitch it's, fine it, worked it was. Serviceable it was not as weeper by the, way which got crushed his. Sweeper he might he might just scrap. It if, not he needs some sort of refinement on that, pitch because that pitch was getting hit all over the yard when he was throwing it over the. PLATE i think what's interesting with his. Fastball the run value was zero this. Season did you see what the stuff plus on it? 00:35:20 Speaker 2: Was enlighten. 00:35:22 Speaker 1: Me it's one twenty, One. 00:35:25 Speaker 2: So that is reason for. Optimism that means he was twenty one percent above league average for those who don't follow stuff plus or those one hundred scale metrics on terms of in terms of what his fastball did this, Year so in terms of pure stuff on the, heater we know that it's really. Good it had twenty inches of rise on, it which is. Nuts he's just gonna have to find some ways to mix some other pitches and so his fastball can be that. 00:35:49 Speaker 1: EFFECTIVE i think he tried doing that a little bit more down the, stretch with varying. Results he had a Better August september Had niarra over six and and if you look at his fastball progression throughout the, season the final two months of the, season he threw his fastball under fifty percent of the, time which for him is pretty. Massive he ended the season throwing his fastball a little under sixty percent of the, time but the final two months he really did try to make that. Adjustment, however we got To. September In, october The rangers and The astros were, waiting and it seemed they. Weren't they weren't too fooled by what they saw From Bryce. Miller Globe Life park for these final two pitchers was just a nightmare this. SEASON i don't think they want to pitch there if, that if there's an option not. 00:36:37 Speaker 2: To speaking of that last, picture we ready to get to our last guy, Here, yeah let's do. It, Okay, So Brian, wu what's your? 00:36:45 Speaker 1: GRADE i would be minus because his underlying numbers were a little bit better Than. Bryce's actually they were better than a little bit. Better they were significantly better Than bryce's expected stats EXPECTED, dra expected batting average, average eggs at, velocity wasn't hit quite as. Hard his strikeout rate and whiff rate were, higher his barrel, rate hard hit, rate and his extension were all great as. Well those lead you to have more confidence that those can hold up season over season and lead to better results when he's a little more has a little more durability on the. Mound he was out of gas at the end of the. Season we knew that he probably wasn't supposed to be pitching In. September somebody, Else i'm sure was supposed to be pitching In september Because Emerson hancock got hurt And Marco gonzalez was out for the season And Robbie ray Had Tommy john and you didn't trade for a starter at the. Deadline but this is not a trade deadline complaining. Episode he had to pitch In september and the results were pretty, bad especially when they needed him in those final two starts just be, competitive and he was. Not his grade again probably goes up to a. Bee outside of those Final i'd say second to last start was. Bad they did win his last start of the. Season he was a little bit all over the place though in that, one if you remember, it he. 00:38:07 Speaker 2: Didn't give up a, run but he didn't last that long because he threw a ton of pitches early and they had to get to the, Bullpen so, yeah they did. Win his last. Start for, ME i gave be minus which is similar To, miller's and you're, RIGHT i did look at the peripherals in terms Of wu's expecting numbers were. Better his savant page is much more read Than Bryce. Miller's was what knocked it down a little bit for. Me and maybe this isn't, fair but it's just the fact That wu couldn't really work deep into games the Way Bryce miller. Could and part of that is Because wu was obviously on a pitch count in an innings limit this, year so he wasn't giving guys the distance the way That Bryce miller, could especially early on With Bryce miller and just how dominant he. Looked so that knocked it down a little. Bit and again that's really no fault Of Brian. Wu's it's just something that he's going to have to continue to build up as time goes, on is working deeper into. Games BUT i think it's fair to say what we learned this year is While Rice miller And Brian wu both have the potential to be really, good we learned That wu's ceiling is definitely, higher just in terms of the pure stuff of his, pitches the mix that he, has and how good his fastball is along With. Miller so all that, Combined Ryan wu has a really high. Ceiling it's just the matter of the last couple starts weren't. Great his command could get a little bit, better and again he's just going to have to learn to work deeper into games. 00:39:24 Speaker 1: TOO i had another caveat With, wu which is bumped his great up a little, bit like he wasn't supposed to be in the big leagues this. Year in an ideal world for The, Mariners he's pitching In DOUBLE. A i think all season they just wanted to stretch him out and manage his. Innings and then next season you put him in the rotation at age twenty four and he's good to. Go but, no they had to put him in, there and he outside OF i took this stat from your, article by the, way on just baseball dot, com outside of those Two texas starts here in an area of three three to two that plays in every major league rotation in, baseball every single, whatever outside of the peripherals or. Not if you have a three three to two era at you in your age twenty three season with great expected, SATs a great savant, page great strikeout and walk. 00:40:12 Speaker 3: Rate he. 00:40:12 Speaker 1: Did he was not the most crisp when it came to command and controlling runners on the base, paths but, overall the swing and, miss the repertoire he. Had his eventual combination of his, fastball his, sinker and his cutter were all all led to be very successful at the big league. Level, again off speed or, sorry breaking pitches in the offseason is is a to do for. 00:40:39 Speaker 2: Him, definitely but the fact he's got two fastballs that work so, well that's pretty exciting because guys did not hit it even as a, rookie which makes us believe it's probably only going to get. Better so again were nitpicking. Here miller And wu for both being, rookies were both very, good and if they were on a, curve both of them are probably closer to A b plus OR a minus if we're just grading them among rookies and for what they did compared to expectations for their first. Season but AGAIN i just Knocked wo down a little bit because, again like it's obviously his last couple starts weren't, great AND i think his command can get a little bit, better AND i obviously think he can start to work deeper in the. Game but Give Brian wu two to three, years you're talking about a potential front line. 00:41:24 Speaker 1: STARTER i have one more grade to give out, Ready, Okay rotation health got A d. MINUS i couldn't quite give it AN, f but it was pretty close to ENO. F i'm not gonna lie they Missed Robbie. RAY i gotta tell, YOU i was really looking forward to Watching Robbie ray this, season and we got an entire three and a third innings Of Robbie ray and that's, it and we won't See hi until They All star break next. SEASON i think this team's in the playoffs if they Have Robbie. Ray not taking away From MILLER, wu but they're a playoff, Team Robby, Ray they're in the. 00:42:02 Speaker 2: Playoffs and both you and all our listeners that took your gambling advice at the start of the year a lot, later did he strike out two hundred and six guys in those three and a third? INNINGS i can't. 00:42:11 Speaker 1: REMEMBER i don't think. So which shitty is if he got injured before the season, started everyone's bets would have gotten, refunded but now he did actually start a. Game SO i screwed some people out of some. MONEY i do know one of our friends decided to run right to the sportsbook and put his money, down and well he was not very happy about. 00:42:34 Speaker 2: It, well your exact words to people were take your mortgage and put it On Robbie. Ray over two hundred and five and a half, Strikeouts so, yeah you were. Confident to be, fair nobody thought he was going to get injured in his first start of the. Year but you're, right in all, seriousness they absolutely Missed Robbie. RAY a lot of people have things to say about him these. Days, OBVIOUSLY i think some have the burning image of Your On alvarez still pinned into their. Heads but if you Could Robbie ray from twenty twenty, two the stat was From june eighth and, ON i believe because the ra was sub. Three Robbie, ray in a lot of, ways was one of the better starters in The American league from about Mid june and on of his first season In. Seattle so in twenty twenty, two people forget that guy was pretty valuable for. Him he wasn't, perfect but he was valuable and he threw a lot of. Innings so to lose, him to Lose, marco certainly to Lose Emerson. Hancock and that's the ONE i highlighted because when they were set to go to a six man rotation and get more guys, rest it was probably gonna. Help and then When hancock got, hurt that couldn't. Happen so, yeah in a lot of, ways The mariners did not have a lot of great luck in terms of rotation. Health besides all, that they still had five guys that pitched unbelievably well for their. 00:43:45 Speaker 1: Standards i'm gonna give an honorary shout out to To easton. McGee his one start earned AN. A. 00:43:53 Speaker 2: Yeah it. DID i didn't really know what to make of. THAT i was, like, so are they gonna let him keep? Going is he gonna get another turn in the rotation? Here unfortunately for, him it led To Tommy John. 00:44:03 Speaker 1: To be, honest seeing how the season played, out they could have used him at. 00:44:09 Speaker 2: Least to eat some innings if he had did something similar to What marco, does WHICH i mean that's not really fair Because marco is a. Veteran he does throw a lot of. Innings there are starts he turns in that are very. Good but if McGee just found a way to, GO i don't know five and three every start that would have been, valuable. 00:44:27 Speaker 1: It would have been and it was sorely missed and a reason that we are sitting here talking off season instead of talking, playoffs which have been going. On The American League Division series going on right. Now when this comes, out The American League championship and The National League Championship series will be in full. Swing i'm sure we'll have some thoughts on it at the, time but you'll have to wait until after we get back from vacation to hear about. That speaking of, interviews a recurring guest On Today Dave Softy Maler i'm excited to hear what he has to say about some of the things he did at The All star. Breaks he was making headlines And i'm excited to dive into that with. 00:45:06 Speaker 2: Him we didn't expect anything, last did. We he was making. Headlines and for anybody who's listened To softy ON, kjr who listened to him on the first time he was on with, us you know how he, is and this is his personality and there's a reason he's so popular around here and we're looking forward to talking to, him especially because we're going to talk to him after a Disappointing mariner. Season let's put it like, this the interviews in terms of difference between him And Mike sock are probably gonna sound a little, different. 00:45:37 Speaker 1: Just a little. Bit let's not keep you any. Longer let's get to our interview With Dave Softy. Maller all, right we welcome On Dave. Maler you know him As, softy now a recurring guest on this. Show, dave we appreciate you taking some time to join us. Up before we get into the main meat of this, show we want to start off actually on a different. Foot i'm gonna throw it To. Lyyle he actually something he wants to, Say SO i thought we'd. 00:46:03 Speaker 2: Call something back here because the last time we were, on we were talking about the off season and the lack of signing a, shortstop and WHEN i gave my, opinion which WAS i didn't lose sleep over, it your exact words were to stop with my stupid ass opinions about shortstops and. Payroll All i'd like to say is All i'd like to say is here we sit at the end of the, year AND Jp crawford outperformed all four of those. Guys so, hey if you want to take it, back you got a pre space to do it. Here. 00:46:30 Speaker 3: No, no they should have MOVED jp to second base and sign a. 00:46:32 Speaker 5: Shortstop that's what they should have, done because they had a giant hole as big as your head at second base this year that was never. Filled if they were, smart they would have PUT Jp crawford at second base and they would have signed somebody else to play. Shortstop you see What carlos care is doing right now With. Minnesota you're watching him by the, way the last couple of. Weeks if they were, smart they would have MOVED jp to second base and they were to sign a, shortstop and you would have had the best of both worlds. 00:46:59 Speaker 3: Pass so, look WHAT. 00:47:00 Speaker 5: I will say is THAT Jp crawford had a year that a lot of people did not see. 00:47:05 Speaker 3: COMING i don't care What lyle. 00:47:07 Speaker 5: Said there's no world Where lyle saw that kind of year coming FOR Jp. 00:47:10 Speaker 3: Crawford the only people. 00:47:12 Speaker 5: That saw that kind of year coming FOR Jp crawford ARE Jp crawford AND Jp crawford's. Mom that's, It, okay nobody else saw that kind of year, coming not even Freaking. LYLE i don't care what he. Says so they should have gotten a lot more depth Than it would have been a much different situation if they had MOVED Jp crawford to second base and signed an, actual excuse, me big star to play shortstop for. Him, so, look you want, Credit i'll give you. Credit you feel better, now you were? Right how does that? SOUND i like the end of. 00:47:42 Speaker 3: That that's what you want to. Hear that's the. 00:47:43 Speaker 5: Only reason why you wanted to have me, on just So softie would, Say lyle's, Right, Okay lyle's, right see you. 00:47:49 Speaker 3: Later i'm out of. 00:47:50 Speaker 2: Here you caught. Us, NO i Mean i'm with you. That, like, obviously if they'd gotten one of those guys and MOVE jp to SECOND i think in a different spot right, NOW i. GUESS i GUESS i just looked At. JAY i, MEAN i didn't see this coming FOR Jp, crawford BUT i did just want to call back and, say, yeah he had a pretty good. 00:48:08 Speaker 3: Year so, no he had a great. Year he had a really really good. 00:48:10 Speaker 5: YEAR i mean he was obviously a huge surprise for The mariners this. Year there's no question about, that but they needed a lot, more And i'm sure we'll talk about that at the. End they needed a hell of a lot. More THEIR dh experiment was a fricking. Disaster Left field in the end was a. Disaster the fact that you had no choice at the end of the year but to trade your best reliever and a real popular guy in the clubhouse to fix that problem is. 00:48:38 Speaker 3: Pathetic and this is the second. 00:48:40 Speaker 5: Time now in three years Where jerry's had no choice but to go out and get rid of a guy that people really really liked in that clubhouse and kind of held the clubhouse. Together the first Was graveman obviously three years, ago and Now Pauli. Sewald the fact that you could not go out and Find Dominic canzone And Josh rojash in free agency and the fact that you had to give Up Paul seawall to get that guy and get those players is. Unbelievable, Man it's just so frustrating. 00:49:09 Speaker 1: For, Me. Softie have you ever left a season with a worst taste in your? Mouth like The manders have had a lot of bad, seasons but has it ever kind of felt like this for? 00:49:18 Speaker 3: You you? 00:49:20 Speaker 5: Know, yeah it's felt like that for, Me i'd say the ninety six. Season coming out of ninety, five you guys are probably too young to remember that, year but that YEAR i was convinced at the end of that ninety five season that The mariners were on their way to The World. SERIES i, mean just think about what they. Had they Had, griffy they Had Alex rodriguez in his second, year they Had jay Bun, Or Edgar, Martinez Randy. Johnson they were, really really. Good and that team obviously never made it to A World. Series maybe the biggest waste of baseball talent all time in the history of the, game for crying out. 00:49:52 Speaker 3: Loud so that year was. 00:49:54 Speaker 5: Disappointing the two thousand and two, SEASON i, think right coming off the one, year, yeah to not even make the playoffs the next year was extremely. Disappointing BUT i think when you're talking about the way we felt about the way this year, ended it wasn't just the way the year. Ended it was what they said about it On tuesday at that press, conference, Right so here you, Go, HEY i, mean for lack of a better, term should, happens, right and should happens a lot in. Baseball the best team in baseball doesn't always win The World. Series look at The braves And dodgers right, now they're playing from. Behind look At. Baltimore baltimore had the best record in The American league and now they're about to get swept by The, rangers Right, so weird stuff happens when you're playing you, know a three and a five and a seven game. Series, Man SO i get, that BUT i just think the way the year ended to waste the pitching staff that they, had and then for The poto to go out there On tuesday and basically just tell everybody you're. Stupid i'm, SMART i know What i'm. 00:50:52 Speaker 3: Doing you. 00:50:53 Speaker 5: Don't the whole fifty four percent thing was, garbage horrible time to say something like. 00:50:58 Speaker 3: That they're just, tone they're arrogance they. 00:51:03 Speaker 5: HAD i think guys at that press conference On tuesday just kind of made a big turd, sandwich and even bigger turd. SANDWICH i think after what happened On tuesday of last, week was. 00:51:14 Speaker 1: That as bad as you've seen a postgame press or be handled in all the sports you've. Covered, yeah it's pretty. 00:51:20 Speaker 5: BAD i remember when you have lost To arizona in ninety. Eight Jim lambright gave about a thirty second speech to the media and then got up and. Left Tyrone, Willingham we've seen plenty from, Him BUT i just think for this, organization, who let's face, it, guys in forty six years of, baseball they've. 00:51:38 Speaker 3: Accomplished nothing of. Notes. 00:51:40 Speaker 5: NOTHING i, mean, yeah you've been to THE aocs three, Times, okay so. WHAT a lot of teams go to THE. Alcs you've won a couple of division. Titles so what a lot of teams have a couple of division. Titles but for them to be so arrogant and so flip it about what they've, done and for a group of Guys poto and service, that let's face, IT i think we all understand the. Plan tear it, down build it back, up get a bunch of draft, picks go, young do what The astros. Did, okay, fine but you haven't done that, yet. Right you haven't proven you can do. This you've never done it. Anywhere you haven't proven you can get to A World. Series your owner hasn't proven. That all this talk about all you want to do is make money and you're not in it to. Win what have they done to prove? 00:52:24 Speaker 3: Otherwise? 00:52:25 Speaker 5: Nothing SO i just think that their tone that they took on that press conference On tuesday was pretty surprising for a group of guys, that let's face, it should be pretty. 00:52:34 Speaker 3: HUMBLE i, mean they've been here for eight years and they've. 00:52:37 Speaker 5: Made the playoffs one, time and they're acting, like you, know they're the cock on the lock and that they have this unbelievable philosophy that everybody else on baseball should be falling in line for and just completely following no matter what they. Do but that was pretty, surprising, man for. 00:52:54 Speaker 2: Sure, so, well we've talked about the whole fifty four percent. Quote, yeah it was pretty tone, Obviously and what we've talked about, is so the number is there's five teams in the last decade that have or sorry just, yeah in the last decade that have won fifty four percent of their games or more. 00:53:09 Speaker 3: Three and one in The World, series right, Right. 00:53:11 Speaker 2: Yeah and what we said, is obviously those teams are, good and if you win that amount of, games you're gonna be. Good the problem, is AND tj was the one who highlighted, this he, goes The mariners have not won sixty percent of their games because what THE poto said Is, oh some years you win fifty, percent some years you win. Sixty they haven't won sixty percent of their games, yet so it's kind of hard to digest that when they haven't gotten the top half of what he's referring to. 00:53:33 Speaker 3: Either, YEAH i, MEAN i, LOOK i think we all get what he was. 00:53:37 Speaker 5: Saying in, general if you're a competitive team for a, decade you're gonna find a way to sneak into The World. 00:53:44 Speaker 3: Series you'll find a way to make The. 00:53:46 Speaker 5: Alcs crazy stuff happens in the baseball, playoffs right. 00:53:52 Speaker 3: Like The, dodgers for. 00:53:52 Speaker 5: Example The dodgers have been unbelievable for a long time and they have one, title, right and that in that whole. 00:53:57 Speaker 3: Run SO i get. 00:53:59 Speaker 5: It but the fifty four percent thing was just a slap in the face to The mariner. Players it was a slap in the face To mariner fans that this is your, Attitude like your attitude should, Be, hey we're gonna do everything we can do to make The World series and win a championship and bring a title To. Seattle instead it's, now let's win fifty four. Percent so you, know this is the, worse smarter than you approach that they. Take you, know the big brains On jerry And scott and the rest of us are just. Idiots how do you think the players felt about winning fifty four percent of their? Games how do you think that would have flown With Lou? Panella If Woody woodward Or Pat gillick Or Howard lincoln Or Chuck armstrong went to Lou panello and, said, Hey, skip here's an, idea let's shoot for fifty four, percent he would have kicked him in the nuts and, said you're. Crazy are you kidding? Me there's no way Lou panello would have dealt with crap like. That SO i just think it's a horrible thing to say to your fan. Base and really the timing was even. Worse you just blew one of the best pitching staffs in the history of your, franchise and here you are now telling me the main. 00:55:01 Speaker 3: Goal is to win fifty four. Percent it was just. 00:55:03 Speaker 5: Dumb it was a dumb comment by a guy THAT i think is actually pretty, smart And, JERRY i don't think he's a stupid, guy but it was a dumb thing to say at a really dumb. 00:55:12 Speaker 1: Time do you have an idea exactly what lou would say, like can you do a low? Impression? 00:55:17 Speaker 3: Oh fifty four? 00:55:20 Speaker 6: Percent the hell y y ya ya ya yah yah yeah yr, jed you're, Crazy you're fucking. CRAZY i get the hell out of my. Face fifty four. PERCENT i mean he's looking to win one hundred games a. Year he's looking to win ninety five ninety minimum every single. Year so fifty four. 00:55:38 Speaker 5: PERCENT i don't, know, DUDE i JUST i roll my eyes thinking about the reaction the players had when he said. 00:55:44 Speaker 3: That to be honest with, you YEAH i. 00:55:46 Speaker 2: Could we we joked, saying can you imagine what that group chat looked like with all the players that? 00:55:51 Speaker 3: Day the day cal rally. 00:55:52 Speaker 5: Guys Cal raley comes out with this impassioned speech about wanting to do, better, which by the, way happens to coincide With Corey, seger you, know really just kind of complimenting his ownership group on the job that they, did and, Meantime Cayl rowley is being asked By Scott servis to control his. 00:56:11 Speaker 3: Emotions was just a. 00:56:15 Speaker 1: COINCIDENCE i thought there's a. 00:56:19 Speaker 2: Jamming. 00:56:19 Speaker 5: Well divis said that he thought That Kyle seager may have asked him to do. 00:56:23 Speaker 3: THAT i don't doubt that at. 00:56:25 Speaker 5: All you, Know it's JUST i cannot believe that a manager would come out and ask his, catcher who has busted his, ass by the way for this team the entire, year catching almost every game this, season especially down the stretch When murphy was banged, up for him to come out and tell his, Guy, hey control your. 00:56:45 Speaker 3: Emotions you know what my reaction would have. Been, guys. 00:56:52 Speaker 1: Subscribe to the YouTube you can see what's. 00:56:54 Speaker 2: Off he just. 00:56:54 Speaker 5: Said that's my, reaction because the reaction From Scott's service should have, Been, hey you know, WHAT i love what Cal rawley. SAID i love his, FIRE i love his, leadership and we are damn glad to have that guy as A. Mariner that's the kind of fire and passion that we need in a. Leader someone who's willing to go out and say what he feels without any fear of retribution from the ownership. Whatsoever a guy who's confident in his, abilities who's a true leader for the. Franchise and that's what The mariners should have, Said that's What John stanton should have, said and that's What service should have. Said instead they told him the control his. Emotions, well you're talking. 00:57:34 Speaker 2: Unbelievable, YEAH i, mean so we're talking about reactions here right. Now if The mariners decide to react and actually take action on what Cal raley said and get aggressive this, winner right then other thing we wanted to talk to you about is what does that look? Like SO i think we can all sit here and, say, look they should go Sign otani and they should give him every dollar he. WANTS i think we're on agreement. There. Sure if it's Not, otani how else do you want to see The mariners get? Better this? 00:57:58 Speaker 5: Winner, well let's face, it the free agent class isn't what it was a year, ago, Right it's just not the same when you had this, unbelievable like generational group of shortstops while available in free, agency when you could have MOVED jp to second base and signed somebody. Else so those guys aren't out. There so it looks, like, okay so we've got eight starting. Pitchers you got five, Spots Brian, Wu Marco, Gonzalez Robbie. Ray Robbie ray's not going anywhere because he's not even ready until probably The All Star. Game so A Bryce, Miller Brian, wu maybe A Logan. Gilbert i'd like to hang on to. Him so maybe. Not but guys like that go talk to The. Mets can we Get Pete alonzo from The. Mets he's got a year left in his. Contract can we go to The padres and talk about what it would take to get One. SOTO i think what it looks like this year is instead of signing guys in free, agency you're trading for guys that have big money, contracts and you're giving up some prospects to do, it which is exactly why they should have done it last off season when they did not have to lyle give up any prospects, whatsoever and they could have just bought what they were looking. For now they need to pay for a guy who's under contract and give up a goddamn prospect in. 00:59:15 Speaker 3: The process to pull it. Off you see where this doesn't make any. Sense you see where this whole process is. 00:59:20 Speaker 5: Flawed when you have a shopping cart and everything you need on the shelf and all you have to do is hand over a debit card to pull it. Off now you have to hand over your debit card and your first born son to get what you're looking. FOR i mean, it it's mind. Boggling it's so. Stupid the process is so irritating because now you're going to go out and try to get what you wanted to get last, winter but now you have to give up prospects to pull it. Off imagine signing a guy like a Pet alnzo or a guy like a Loon sooto and, oh by the, way being able to hang on To Brian wu and hang on To Bryce, miller and then having those guys AS i don't, know trade chips In july next year you're going for A World series. Championship. Man so the whole thing is just effing. Ridiculous the approach that they've taken to making this offense, better it's like they're brain. 01:00:10 Speaker 3: Dead it just makes no sense at. All. 01:00:12 Speaker 1: None so what's your optimism level they pull something off that you'd be satisfied. 01:00:16 Speaker 5: With, WELL i think they have a better chance now because they have some bullets to. Spend they have some they have some you, know some bullets in the. Gun uh to go out and give. Up but they have to do. It they have to make a deal for. Somebody they have to make a trade to add an aircraft carrier to this. Lineup it's gonna be hard because a lot of teams front the same thing The mariners. 01:00:35 Speaker 3: Do, uh but you know they have to go out and do. 01:00:37 Speaker 5: It they have to add To julio AND jp and cal rally does To oscar Get re Signed kell excuse Mekel nex not your guy in? Leftfield long, term we all know that they have to make a move. There second base as a black. Hole they have to make a move. There So i'd, say unless there's just a, major major bidding war for these guys and the asking price cantsatic, CONTROL i would, say and they got a pretty decent shot of adding somebody of significance because now they have trade baits and they shouldn't have done it this. Way they should have gone out and bought it over the offseason last. 01:01:08 Speaker 1: Year but do you know what your reaction on there is going to be when they if they signed? Show have you thought? That have you thought that out? 01:01:15 Speaker 2: Yet? 01:01:18 Speaker 5: WELL i mean probably SOMETHING i can't say on the radio when it does. HAPPEN i, mean holy, fuck right. 01:01:25 Speaker 3: Like that, podcast by the, way we can do. That, yeah oh you can do. It, YEAH i mean it, would it. 01:01:30 Speaker 5: Would it would pretty much blow away every perception of the, franchise right, Whatever people have been saying for the last twenty five thirty years about, them really almost fifty. Years you want to get people to shut. Up you want to get people to you, know stop with this narrative that the team doesn't want to. Win Sign Show Hao. Tony, okay do, it and you should do it because every penny you spend on Show, hey you're getting back. 01:01:54 Speaker 3: THREEFOLD i mean they just got. 01:01:56 Speaker 5: To, commit like to whatever the biggest contract offer is For Show Hao. Tani they have to commit to spending that money because whatever they, spend they're going to get back every. 01:02:04 Speaker 3: Penny, Well i'll tell you. 01:02:06 Speaker 2: Who was a big proponent of Signing Show. Hey it's, you and you were vocal about. It so if we go back To All Star, week you were out with your phone at media day and you took the initiative where they were wrapping up the media, session the mediator, said, okay we're not taking any more, questions and you've got your phone out recording and you go, Show, hey what are the odds that you play in here this? Year he gives you a shrug, like obviously he's not going to answer it. 01:02:27 Speaker 3: Directly it wasn't a, no but you said them. 01:02:30 Speaker 2: It wasn't a, no so he didn't. 01:02:31 Speaker 5: Say, no, right, Yeah, NO i, mean look in the, END i think that obviously there's a chance that Show hey is different than other players and wants other. STUFF i think when you start making six seven hundred million, dollars money kind of tends to matter a little bit, less Right, like for, example WHAT i mean by that is, this if The mariners offer six hundred and fifty million dollars over fifteen years or whatever the hell at ten, years, right whatever. 01:02:57 Speaker 3: It turns out to. 01:02:58 Speaker 5: Be AND i don't think he's getting that out of, money by the, way because of his, arm which is fine for The mariners because they don't need the, arm they need the. 01:03:04 Speaker 3: Bat so maybe maybe the money's. 01:03:07 Speaker 5: Less maybe it's four hundred and fifty over ten, years maybe it's forty five million dollars a. Year whatever that money or that number, is The mariners need to come in and commit to the number the highest ever, possible and then some, Meaning, okay The mariners are offering six, Fifty well guess what The yankees are offering six. Fifty The dodgers are offering six. Fifty what's different about? You, Okay, well here's what's different about. Us we're going to redesign our entire batting cage area just for. You we are going to give you a private plane that you can fly. Around we're gonna give you a housing, allowance right, whatever we're gonna throw in all these. Toys we're gonna completely restructure our front office and our nutrition program to fit your. 01:03:55 Speaker 3: Needs what do you? Need what do you? Need what's important to? You what do you? Want you? Want you want? 01:03:59 Speaker 5: Housing you want to play a? Jet do you want a brand new weight? Room what do you? Want what can we do behind the scenes to make our offer which is the same financially different than their. Offer that's where The mariners have to get creative for. Sure maybe we can start showing every game for free In. JAPAN i don't, Know i'm just throwing stuff out, there, Right maybe we can play a series. 01:04:24 Speaker 3: In japan in your, hometown right. 01:04:27 Speaker 5: Whatever that's the kind of stuff The mariners have to start thinking about if they want to sign Show. 01:04:31 Speaker 1: Aotani when you're going into that media, scroom were you always going to ask him? That or was that spur of the. 01:04:36 Speaker 3: MOMENT i was kind of spur of the. MOMENT i walked over there AND i saw that he was kind of. 01:04:39 Speaker 5: AVAILABLE i had an angle with a, camera and SO i just, said, hell what the hell, Show, hey how about signing? Here and it was a great, angle you. Know it was like me AND i was like ten feet away from the. Guy SO i was thinking about potentially maybe asking him something about, it and THEN i saw the window and took advantage of. 01:04:55 Speaker 1: Him how'd you get to the front of that? Scrum there might have BEEN i think there was like two hundred p. 01:05:00 Speaker 5: People, yeah they were kind of like wrapping it up a little, bit and so people were kind of starting to leave and dissipate a little. Bit, so LIKE i, SAID i kind of had a little bit of a window there THAT i just kind of jumped. 01:05:09 Speaker 3: On it's all about, timing. 01:05:10 Speaker 2: Boys did you always plan to Ask Felix batista something During All Star week? 01:05:15 Speaker 1: Two? 01:05:16 Speaker 5: Always, always, always? Always AND i was very surprised at the reaction From baltimore. Fans you, KNOW i had people that were accusing me of Harassing Felix. Bautista Right, like think about in your mind's, eye what harassment looks. Like that wasn't. Harassment that was me walking up to a guy and, Saying, hey this we got a funny thing going on. Here your social media team is calling You King. Felix what do you think about? That people thought that was like the most offensive thing in the, world, Right like people acted LIKE i was going after his family For god's. Sake SO i was really surprised at the. Reaction and people were, saying you, know it's The All Star. Game he's having, fun he's enjoying. Himself, okay Like Media day at The Super, bowl when weirdos dress up as aliens and asked cockying me. Questions that's what the media day is supposed to be all. About that's what this thing is supposed to be all. About So i'm still surprised, today guys that people had that. 01:06:06 Speaker 3: REACTION i really. Am were there not. 01:06:08 Speaker 1: Two social media people right there that you could have talked? 01:06:11 Speaker 3: To there was nobody. THERE i don't see anybody. 01:06:13 Speaker 1: There. 01:06:13 Speaker 5: Yeah WHEN i saw A, bautista he was just kind of cleaning up and getting ready to walk out to the dugout or the locker or the clubhouse or. Whatever SO i didn't see any social media people there From. Baltimore you, mean like oriole social media. 01:06:26 Speaker 3: PEOPLE i could have. 01:06:27 Speaker 1: Swore there was a photographer in the background of your, video a. 01:06:30 Speaker 5: PHOTOGRAPHER i have no idea who they were. WITH i was looking at people's cred insuls but, YEAH i MEAN i always wanted to get his thoughts because you remember that Morning jessmon McIntyre was on The, space you, know With Felix oranez and asked him about. It SO i was, like, well the natural follow up is to go ask that. Guy so we got the whole. Story, ever have you. 01:06:51 Speaker 2: Ever gotten pushed back on something like that, before. 01:06:54 Speaker 5: For like a, Video, like, yeah, NO i Mean i've gotten, pushedback but not like that for a video Because twitter hasn't been, around you. 01:07:01 Speaker 3: KNOW i, mean we're going back to LIKE i remember in. 01:07:03 Speaker 5: Twenty sixteen or, Fifteen Game day was In seattle AND i put a bounty out on the Old crimson flag for like five hundred bucks or whatever grabbed the, flag you, know and people lost their freaking. 01:07:15 Speaker 3: Mind thought it was the worst thing. Ever, oh you can't do. That that's. Awful don't do. 01:07:19 Speaker 5: That, Okay, Well i'm A husky fan and The cougar flag is on my campus And i'm putting a bounty out for. It people went freaking. Nuts so the video itself got like five million views On. Twitter it was crazy how much activity it. 01:07:31 Speaker 3: Got so, yeah nothing nothing on social media like, that not. 01:07:35 Speaker 1: Yet so this interview is going to come out next. Week But i'm curious what's the bounty this weekend for the for game? 01:07:41 Speaker 3: Day oh? 01:07:41 Speaker 5: Shit you, KNOW i actually kind of hope The cougar fans show up in droves and stick it To pat. McAfee i think he's act he's acted like an. ASS i THINK espn has acted like an ass in this whole in this whole, saga you. KNOW i, mean they're they're very. Arrogant they have a very arrogant tone to. Them they think that everyone's beneath when it comes to college. FOOTBALL i learned that From Quin kesternitich on the sideline during The cupcake game Against cal six seven years. Ago you dare QUESTION espn and your questioning the. King and so the way McAfee And Desmond howard and those guys have responded to me is. Bullshit AND i Hope cougar fans show up and let McAfee know that On. SATURDAY i got no problem with that at. 01:08:20 Speaker 4: All. 01:08:20 Speaker 1: None back to the media day. Thing this kind of spurn a question because you've been To Super bowl media days and, such and you mentioned that's kind of the similar environment as The All Star Game Media. 01:08:29 Speaker 3: Day it's really, not. 01:08:31 Speaker 5: Though that's the funny thing is that it's not like, that but it should be like, That like this is the day where if you want to ask a funky question or you, know do something kind of fun with a, Player media day is when you should be doing, it, Right and they do that at The Super. Bowl it's obviously a lot more, People like there's thousands of people That Media day in THE. 01:08:49 Speaker 3: Nfl it's not like. That for The All Star. 01:08:51 Speaker 5: Game there was MAYBE i don't, know maybe seven or eight hundred people. There it's a much smaller event Than Media day for THE nfl for. 01:08:57 Speaker 1: Sure so what's like the Best, WELL i would, say maybe what's the best question reaction either you've had or what you've seen happen in that? 01:09:06 Speaker 3: Setting Oh, god at a media day type. 01:09:08 Speaker 1: Thing, yeah and let's say let's Leave mark say, Like Marshawn lynch has his own, tier. 01:09:15 Speaker 5: Right so, yeah, yeah that's WHAT i was thinking, about Is, Marshan But marshawn at The Super bowl With New york or In New york When dion got to him Deon. Sanders that was pretty funny and interesting. THERE i, mean as far as media, day nothing. 01:09:30 Speaker 3: Really comes to. 01:09:31 Speaker 5: MIND i don't really pay a lot of attention to stuff like, that to be honest with, you Unless i'm in the mix doing stuff for, myself you. 01:09:37 Speaker 3: KNOW i, mean we had a lot of fun In New york. 01:09:39 Speaker 5: Before the game With, denver BUT i don't remember anything specifically that stands, out to be honest with. 01:09:44 Speaker 1: You. 01:09:45 Speaker 2: MAN i guess if we were going to get to one last topic, Here softy is unless, teacher you had any Other mariner stuff or media related. Stuff, okay, yeah so we can kind of move on to our last topic, here which is we didn't get to this with you the first time we had you. On but the three of us are all Big Star wars fans, here AND i know your borderline like obsessed With Star. Wars MAYBE i don't know IF T jnn are quite. There we're probably a step behind, you but we are big. Fans so if you had to rank your top three, movies what would it? 01:10:14 Speaker 3: Be top three would Be empire episode four And rogue. One oh, Yes. 01:10:23 Speaker 5: I'd Put jedi right Behind rogue, one and Then i'd probably Put mando And. 01:10:31 Speaker 3: Mando and And or right behind, That so those would be my top. 01:10:36 Speaker 5: FIVE i, mean, look it's hard for me BECAUSE i was five years old When Star wars came, out and so you're a kid and you're, like oh my, god what the hell is? 01:10:45 Speaker 4: This? 01:10:45 Speaker 5: Right, Unbelievable so you'll never kind of Replace episode, Four but just for value and storylines and special, Effects Empire Strikes back to me is number. ONE i Think Empire Strikes back is the greatest sequel of all time in the history of. Movies number one all time, sequel and so you, Know episode four right behind it because it was the. Original and Then rogue one was. Amazing rogue one was the best thing they've done Since jedi for, sure and then The book of not not The book Of bo but The, mandalorian and then and Or book Of boba, sucked by the. 01:11:20 Speaker 3: Way bobo was. 01:11:21 Speaker 5: Terrible you, KNOW i THOUGHT i thought was pretty. Good Obia wan was pretty. GOOD i haven't watched the last series, yet a, SHOKEA i haven't seen that. Yet i'm kind of waiting until the whole thing's, done SO i can watch it all one. Time but, yeah i'd say those are my those are my top. 01:11:35 Speaker 1: Five i'm glad you Mentioned rogue one BECAUSE i honestly Think rogue one is one of the most one of the more underrated movies out there in the Whole Star wars, scope because it's right in the middle of the final three movies that came out that people hate. It but then you look at the story of Of rogue. One first of, all the just the the cinematics of it is. Beautiful it's it's it's almost it's almost like perfect, cinematically and then you realize the story it actually, ends which is and or which people. 01:12:05 Speaker 5: Loved, yeah well it goes right in episode. FOUR i mean the end Of rogue one goes right into episode. Four so when you see the end of episode four excuse, me Of rogue, one and then you go watch episode, four you're, like oh my, god this is. Unbelievable everything that we always wondered about is right there In rogue. ONE i thought that The Ai leya was a little, cheesy to be honest with, you if they would have made that movie. 01:12:29 Speaker 3: Now it might look a little. Better but, yeah, Dude rogue one was badass man badass. 01:12:36 Speaker 1: And just to think that And, or WHICH i, think by the time it's, done will go down as probably the Best Star wars series they've, done will lead into that, movie and then you have a sequence of maybe like the Greatest Star wars cinematics they've done all in a. 01:12:51 Speaker 5: Row, yeah when they. Finish And, or WHICH i hope comes very. Soon there was a writer strike and all that CRAP i think is gonna be a. Maze Having Andy serkis and know who played gollib And lord of The. Rings he's a really great. 01:13:05 Speaker 3: Actor that was. Incredible book Of bobo was kind of a. 01:13:08 Speaker 5: Disappointment the best part Of book Of boba is When mandalorian showed. 01:13:13 Speaker 1: Up yeah, Right it's, like what the? Hell just just make this the whole The mandalorians. 01:13:18 Speaker 3: Exactly, yeah. Exactly but, yeah, NO i, Mean I'm i'm a Big Star wars. Geek did you come to my? 01:13:22 Speaker 5: HOUSE i have all kinds of crap in the in the living room and the, fit the dan and, everything and been collecting ship for you, know forty. 01:13:30 Speaker 3: Years. Man SO i don't have any. Kids so maybe WHEN i, Die i'll put YouTube knuckleheads on my will and you can have my. 01:13:35 Speaker 1: Stuff what's the best collectible collectible you? 01:13:37 Speaker 5: Have oh, GOD i have A i have a Big Master Replica's vader Tie. Fighter it's like this, big it's. GIGANTIC i got the Original Star wars episode four poster signed by The hildebrandt, brothers who are the artists that made the episode four. POSTER i mean it's just too, much, man too much. Stuff you gotta come over and check it. 01:14:03 Speaker 1: Out, yeah, yeah that would be. Cool LIKE i don't have any. COLLECTIBLES i like just ingesting everything, period watching all the cartoons multiple, times but usually that ends up working. 01:14:13 Speaker 5: Out, yeah, no for. SURE i, mean if you're like, me they're not action, figures they're. Collectibles don't forget. 01:14:20 Speaker 1: That absolutely, Well, Softie we appreciate you taking some time to hop on here with us. Today best of luck this. Weekend, again by the time this comes, out the game will be. Over BUT i hope you don't Over i'm sure you will overdo, it but for for your, sake for us wishing you, well hope you don't overdo it too much this weekend for a pretty big, game for. 01:14:38 Speaker 3: Sure say it to a. Kille by the, way what's up are we. 01:14:42 Speaker 5: Doing he is our favorite bartender here at The Ermo, queak as you, know that's where we are in the sportsbook. 01:14:46 Speaker 3: Right this place is. Awesome get your ass, down it's, incredible really cool. 01:14:49 Speaker 1: Spot all, right thanks so, Much. 01:14:52 Speaker 3: Softie all, right boys, later. 01:14:56 Speaker 2: Really enjoyed that interview With softy as, always we love listening to. Him is certainly a personality and we appreciate all the time he gave us here in that. Interview so that'll just about wrap it up for this edition of The Marine layer. Podcast you guys know the. Drill if you want to listen to the full form, podcast you can do so On, Apple, Spotify, google And. Amazon that's the audio. Form if you do, that make sure to follow us download our, episodes leave us a five star review the, reviews the, downloads they truly do help us out a, lot so just take an extra second or two to do. That watch us on YouTube, too where we got a video side to the. Podcast on. YouTube you can, like, comment, subscribe turn the notification bells. On watch us on the video side here on, YouTube and then check us out on social media for stay, inactive All winner and Fall, instagram, TikTok, twitter, YouTube, shorts follow us there At Marine Layer. Pod THAT'S. Tj I'm. Lyle as, always we thank you guys for tuning. In talk to you, soon 01:16:23 Speaker 1: Y