Episode 147: Joe Doyle (Future Star Series), ASG Week Recap, And Getting Ready For The Mariners' Second Half

[00:00:00] Welcome to episode number 147 of the Marine Layer Podcast. We welcome on recurring guest Joe Doyle, a senior analyst at Future Star Series, will recap the Mariners draft and look ahead to the trade deadline. We'll go over our Dallas trip and get you ready for the second half.

[00:00:30] On social media we're on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter and YouTube shorts at Marine Layer Podcast. Let's get it rolling. And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network recording Thursday evening, July 18th back in the Pacific Northwest from Dallas,

[00:01:01] Texas. Do you miss 102 yet? Not at all. I gotta tell you legitimately not one bit. We had a blast at All Star Week and we can get into it. But when you are walking around for four days straight in near triple digit weather, how

[00:01:19] could you possibly miss it? How? Before we pile on the negatives, let's start with the positives of the trip. So, Lyle and I were there from Saturday through Tuesday left Wednesday morning. So, we got to experience a couple of things just events wise before we talk about the

[00:01:34] other things that went around. Went to the futures game, saw the interesting, to say the least skills challenge. They had after the futures game did not stay for the celebrity softball game. Lyle was heartbroken, we didn't do that. But time required that we would not be there.

[00:01:51] And you know what? I'm not complaining we missed the celebrity softball game. So sorry about that big L. Went to the home run Derby. Went somewhere to watch the All Star game on Tuesday. That was all a bunch of fun. So overall for the trip, right?

[00:02:08] It was a ton of fun. Where would you like to start? Where should we start with this? Should we start with the events? Should we start with the ballpark? Should we start with the people we talk to? Where do you want to start?

[00:02:17] It's all about the people, right? That's like the biggest reason we went to All Star week. Not just to meet up with all these people that we don't otherwise regularly get to see but to collab with people on content and all the things we got to do while

[00:02:31] we were there. I mean, rattle it off. Like a bunch of people that have been on this podcast, we got to connect with in person. We met Jarrod Carrabbas for the first time. Obviously he's been on the pod. We never met him in person, which was awesome.

[00:02:42] And reconnected with Dallas Braden. All those guys from baseball is dead. J. Hey, Joey, guys like that. We met up with Pabita Tailgate again, which if those are you guys that are on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube, you know him as the guy that goes around the

[00:02:57] country world and does all this different trivia and fan questions with fans all tying back to sports. I mean, he's massive. He's got like millions of followers on TikTok. So him talking to pitching in who we got to meet in person for the first time.

[00:03:13] We talked to Trevor May forever, which was awesome. That was on Tuesday before the All-Star Game started who like, I mean, you guys know from watching his stuff is just the man. And that was a bunch of fun.

[00:03:26] Yeah, there's all these people we got to meet up with, which was really cool. Like we did content with a lot of them. Not everybody we met up with. We did content with, but like sometimes it was like time wise.

[00:03:40] Sometimes it was just like circumstance situation wise, but we got to meet a lot of people like for example, I think we talked about them a week ago. These guys called the broadcast boys, which if you guys don't know who they

[00:03:49] are, they were in the celebrity softball game. First off, they might be the biggest sports content creators on social media. If they're not the biggest, they're pretty close. They've got four million followers on TikTok and they are hilarious. They ask all these funny questions.

[00:04:02] They're very basketball based, but they'll branch out in other sports sometimes too. Like we met them. They just didn't really have any time to do any content stuff. Again, we met up with Carabas and the baseball is dead guys, but we met up

[00:04:12] with them as Evergreen was kind of filing out of the Derby. And that was the only time all week we saw them. So we didn't get Carabas on the mic or anything. Oh, another one that was really cool.

[00:04:21] If any of you know who, who asked Kate is or Kate Manascalco's her full name. She just did the TikTok broadcast of the home run Derby with Tristan Casas. She does awesome stuff. We met up with her. So anyway, we're rambling here.

[00:04:33] We're going down the line, but this is our way of saying all these people we got to meet up with during All Star week was awesome. And it's such a huge reason we love to go is because it's such a big convention.

[00:04:43] It's like the one time of the year, the whole baseball world all together in one spot for a couple days in a row. And it's really fun. Yeah. So that that was a supremely fun part meeting a bunch of people as well.

[00:04:56] We met your former Little League teammate Nick who called into Brock and talked when we hosted on Friday. I mean, that was pretty cool. You guys didn't see each other. What 15 years, but down there in Texas, we're able to do that.

[00:05:08] We're able to meet a bunch of Mariner fans about able to meet a bunch of fans from other teams who we got on our vlogs, which stay tuned to our YouTube channel. They'll both be coming out here soon. Would you like to?

[00:05:21] Oh, I've just got one thing to add to that too is you might want to actually keep an eye on T-Mobile social media accounts like actual T-Mobile. So the reason I say that is I have a friend who you now met for

[00:05:33] the first time his name's Alex Day, who is also a very big content creator. He's basically known at this point as the New York Sports content creator, but he also does a bunch of really fun mini mic questions with athletes. And he's really, really good at it.

[00:05:45] Like you should go check out his stuff. He was there doing some interviews for T-Mobile and he had TJ and I hop on the mic. He's like, I'm getting the two of you on the mic for this thing. We're like, sure, like we get the content game.

[00:05:55] We're all for it. So we might actually be on T-Mobile social accounts. Stay tuned for that. But yeah, to your point about the vlog too, now going back to that stuff. Really fun. One of them is just going to be following along with us for All Star Week.

[00:06:08] One of them, we don't want to spoil it, but it's something we've never done before. And it's kind of a quest. They'll put it like that and it's really a challenge. Yeah, we challenged ourselves.

[00:06:19] And well, you'll have to stay tuned to find out whether or not we did it or not. But we found a way to add a different level of trying and challenging to the weekend opposed to walking around and meeting people.

[00:06:35] There was more purpose, especially with some of the long days, too. Like we're there most of the day and, you know, we could just sit and walk around the whole time, but walking around was very exhausting because of how hot it was.

[00:06:44] So we need more of a kick to do it as well. So the challenge really made it a lot of fun outside of the events. What about like, let's talk about so we've talked about the people. Now, let's talk about the All Star Weekend itself.

[00:06:58] I'm going to be 100 percent honest. Seattle blows Texas out of the water when it comes to All Star setup. It is not close. Whether Seattle, the around the stadium, Seattle, where the draft is located, Seattle, what else should I mention?

[00:07:16] Other things to do if you're not going to the event. Seattle, by far and stadium, too. Slight bias, but Seattle as well. There as me, who has been to now two All Star weekends as as hard as I'm sure Texas tried, couldn't hold a candle.

[00:07:37] And if you didn't go just if you didn't go and you went last year and you're kind of bummed, you'd missed it. Just you probably would have gotten a different thing than what you would have expected if you were purely basing it off of last year.

[00:07:51] Yeah, so again, let's preface this statement by saying like TJ and I for the week had a blast and nothing's going to change that. Nothing's going to take away from that, especially you mentioned it briefly. But all the Mariners fans we got to meet,

[00:08:03] Mariners fans traveled really well down to Arlington. Shout out Mariners fans. So that was awesome. We did a bunch of fan content with Mariners fans. That's coming out soon. But to your point, weather made it tough and that's out of Texas's control as

[00:08:17] Michael Kelso says in that 70 show, I can't control the weather, Jackie. Like that parts out of Texas's control. I'll give them that. But the fact that they held the draft 45 minutes from Globe Life Field made no sense to me.

[00:08:31] Like the fact that like the whole point of moving the draft to All-Star Week, right? Get fans involved. Have it be more like the NFL draft. Like have it be appointment viewing and appointment like

[00:08:43] appointment viewing, but also get fans to really show up and get invested in it. Well, it's hard to do that if the whole All-Star Village is in Arlington, but then the drafts out 45 minutes from now. That's a huge inconvenience to anybody that travels into town

[00:08:55] because then you have to decide where you want to stay and what's worth it to you and if the drive is worth it to you. So that part really wasn't great and then paired with, yeah, if we're going to mention the stadium thing here,

[00:09:06] it should go without saying that the warehouse of Globe Life Field compared to T-Mobile Park is not even close. But oh my God. Like if any of you guys have ever been to Texas, we cannot be the only people that think that the sound system in there

[00:09:21] is about five decibels too loud. Right? Actually, that might not even been doing it justice. Fifty. How about 50? I'm getting my measure. I'm getting my measurements wrong again. I went to ASU. That wasn't good math. There's a problem when the atmosphere of a stadium

[00:09:37] is dictated by the sound system. That's not a good thing. It's really not. So here's how how I would preface Globe Life Field. To watch a baseball game perfectly fine. Plenty of food, plenty of levels. The sight lines were good. It's it's a new stadium.

[00:09:53] It's essentially a souped up version of Chase Field. Is that fair? Because they look very similar. The designs are very similar. The idea with the roof is very similar. Both I believe can open the roof if they wanted to.

[00:10:05] I believe you can open the roof of Globe Life Field if you really wanted to. Of course, the roof was not open while we were there. But the atmosphere again was very in it's in the middle of nowhere. It is there is nothing around that stadium.

[00:10:23] Here's what was within walking distance. There's two hotels. I think they're the same hotel, two different buildings. Jerry World is there. There's a subway close as well. That's it. That's it. You're you're leaving out one big one. The one big attraction is Texas Live, which I really write.

[00:10:42] So I really wish Seattle had something like that. And that is the one thing I will give Arlington. So Arlington has this Texas Live and what it essentially is for those who don't know is it is one big facility

[00:10:55] with a bunch of different restaurants, a ton of TVs in the place. There's two levels to it. It's like it's a big bar area, a big restaurant area. It's basically like all all encompassing spot for people to hang out.

[00:11:08] I will say I think that's what the Mariners want the hat back to be. But that's what they wanted to be, but it's not even close. It's not because Texas Live is so much bigger with so many other food options and so much space for people

[00:11:21] where like the hat back is not like that. And I will say there's other ballpark districts across the country that have this. Philly has Xfinity Live. Cardinals in St. Louis has Bali Live is what they call it. Atlanta, which is where the All-Star Game will be next year.

[00:11:36] I think it's just called Atlanta Live. There are some ballpark to park districts with this stuff. Seattle doesn't have it, I wish they did. But anyway, that was a fun spot to be able to hang out. That's all that's there. It's the ballpark, it's Texas Live, the hotel.

[00:11:51] That's really it. And then honestly, again, if we're going to go back to the stadium thing again, we had kind of heard from some people that Rangers fans were a bit mid. Maybe that's harsh, but we had heard that like the energy

[00:12:05] in that stadium just wasn't really there. And we're in there and we're looking at each other. We're like, this home run derby is silent. You could hear a pin drop. It wasn't like Seattle when people went nuts last year.

[00:12:17] And keep in mind, Adolesse Garcia was in the derby for the Rangers. They had a hometown guy just like who was in it last year. Was not loud in that place at all. Like the energy just wasn't there.

[00:12:27] We felt it a little bit Saturday, but we said, OK, it's the futures game. It's like it'll be different Monday and Tuesday. But the derby just just didn't hold a candle to Seattle. The end of the derby was very good.

[00:12:38] I will say the new format, I think they got they got that part right to give a little bit more juice to the end of the derby. And we're all on the end and all on the edges of our seats,

[00:12:47] especially while watching me win and him lose because I picked Teosca Hernandez and he picked under Henderson and finished in what was it? Well, he finished last. So sorry. And well, you'll have to tune into the vlog.

[00:12:59] I gave an animated reaction to tail winning the home run derby. So stay tuned for that. But like how fitting, how fitting that this dude, of course, wins the home run derby, gets his center stage spotlight during All-Star Week right after an incredibly disappointing year with the M's.

[00:13:17] And oh, by the way, the same day wins the derby, puts out a quote that basically says, yeah, not only do I not like hitting in Seattle, most hitters around the league don't like it either.

[00:13:25] I talked to all these people that says that say, yeah, we don't like it. So all encompassing just like Mariners lose three or four to the Angels then the first half and tail wins the derby. And then he kind of puts out a quote that's anti Seattle.

[00:13:38] It's like, awesome, just, just awesome. Just awesome. But overall, good week. I would say good week. I liked the barbecue. We had a little bit of barbecue on Sunday night. That part was good. It was very, very delicious. Pecan pecan, however you pronounce it,

[00:13:56] lounge on the east side of Dallas. That was very good. I was very happy with that. Yeah. Otherwise the food like we didn't we didn't branch out too much because this again boils back to the point that everything in Texas is so far away from each other.

[00:14:09] So, so, so far. Well, I live in a small town right now. I do a lot of driving. Texas is more sprawled than where I live right now. Like how, how is that a thing? I live 100 miles from a major city.

[00:14:23] And it's less sprawled here than it is in Texas. So crazy. Like somebody asked if we were going to rent a car when we were there. We're like, no, we'll just Uber and that's like less of a pain and easier anyway.

[00:14:34] But I do understand now why the question was asked because so spread out, it's crazy. Yeah. Let's talk some Mariners before we get to Joe Doyle as we get ready for the second half. Do you have anything else to finish? Let's do that.

[00:14:47] I'm down to talk some Mariners because there's an important series coming up this weekend. However, before that, take a pause. We're going to talk to you guys about a friend's of Pegaches, pub 85. You want to watch the Astros Mariners series this weekend?

[00:15:00] No, it's going to be a big series. You want to get out with your friends and watch? Head over there. There's great food. There's great drinks. There's great happy hour specials again. Monday through Friday, happy hour, two to six PM. Three and four dollar drinks.

[00:15:13] How much more can you ask for? Get there early, get some good drink specials, then stay and watch the game. There's more than 20 TVs in the place. There's Dart and there's pool. There's darts in this pool, too. I should say go do all that.

[00:15:24] Have an awesome time with your friends. That's over at Pegaches, pub 85 in Kirkland. So yes, let's talk some second half teach. So the Astros are in town tomorrow. Biggest series of the season. Yeah, to this point, absolutely. So why is Logan Gilbert not starting?

[00:15:41] Because the Mariners announced their starters for this series against the Astros, Louise Castile will start on Friday. George Kirby will start on Saturday and Brian Woo will start on Sunday. Now, they said they want to get Wu into the rotation because they

[00:15:57] they said based on how he is thrown and his injury status and all that, they don't want him sitting longer. So that's why they decided to start him on Sunday. But why is Logan Gilbert not starting in the series? The biggest series of the season.

[00:16:10] He pitched on Sunday. If you were to pitch and did not pitch in the All-Star game, if you were to pitch on Saturday would be normal rest. No, sorry, it would be five days rest on Saturday.

[00:16:19] If you were to pitch on Sunday, it would be six days rest. He's going to pitch instead, though, on Monday. And that's going to be seven days rest for Logan Gilbert. Yeah, he's pitched, I think, the most innings in the American League this season. It's a little puzzling.

[00:16:33] I will say they have the rationale, I think that was given was they want to line Logan Gilbert up for the rest of the season. And I will say that is a slightly fair point. Here's who Logan Gilbert will pitch against down the stretch run of the season.

[00:16:49] He'll pitch against the Phillies, best team in the National League. He'll pitch against the Dodgers, second best team in the National League. He'll pitch against the Yankees, he'll pitch against the Reigns, the second to last series of the season against the Rangers.

[00:17:00] He'll pitch against the Astros and the final series against the Astros this season and he'll pitch the finale against Oakland in game one sixty two. That's kind of fair. But I also think none of those starts are important as this one upcoming

[00:17:15] because of the trade deadline and because the Astros are breathing right down your neck. I agree. I agree with all that. You asked me why is Logan Gilbert not starting? It's not fun to give this answer on a podcast because we always like to be

[00:17:29] a source of information. My answer is I don't know. Listen. We're just podcasters, right? We're fans like everybody else. We are not Scott Service. We're not Jerry DePoto. We're not Justin Hollander. We don't have all the information.

[00:17:43] Maybe there's reasoning that they have that we don't have for why it makes more sense. However, we're going to sit here and give our take never on this podcast. Do we ever say we are 100 percent right? What we're saying is gospel. You should 100 percent take our word.

[00:17:59] We never say that. We are going to give you our take, though. And our take from an outsider's perspective is this is a mistake because you've got a one game lead. If the Astros win this series, you're out of a playoff spot. You like you're right.

[00:18:15] This is there is no more important series than this one right now. Yes, maybe you feel differently in September. Here's the other thing too. There's no guarantee the rotation doesn't have to get reslide it again here

[00:18:26] at some point. There's no saying that somebody doesn't need some extra rest or somebody needs to get bumped up or who knows? There's no guaranteeing Logan Gilbert's going to be perfectly slided up for game 162 or the final game against the Astros come September.

[00:18:40] So with that being said, when you got the most important series of the season happening right now to date, you got to throw your best guys and why you're all star is not throwing in this series when he'd be on six days rest. I have no idea, man.

[00:18:56] I really don't. Here's the if the ultimate concern was we don't want we sitting around too long, why is he not starting on Friday? He'd have plenty of rest still. Sure. And then you could go Wu, Kirby, Gilbert. That's fine. I get even Wu,

[00:19:13] Wu, Castile, Kirby like they currently have like the same three. But they would say the ultimate rationale is we don't want Wu sitting around an extra two days to pitch or if Logan was pitching an extra three days to pitch.

[00:19:25] We want him pitching as soon as possible to get him back in a rhythm. But it's not even that. Instead, it's we're arguing over 24 hours of him sitting. That's it. It would be either who starts on on Sunday, which he's going to start now or he'll

[00:19:40] start on Monday 24 hours. I can't. I cannot think that that is that big of a gap. It cannot be that big. No. And again, I would not be if they were going to go Wu, Kirby, Gilbert, like I wouldn't be up in arms.

[00:19:56] Louise Castile has been fine this year, but we have talked about at different points of the year, he has not really looked like an ace. He's been a good pitcher. He has not been an ace.

[00:20:06] So if your rationale was to give Wu less time to sit around and then you throw him in the series, OK, but Logan Gilbert has been your best pitcher. Everything is reflected that, including the fact he was your lone All-Star until Munoz was added late.

[00:20:22] And he's not going to pitch against the team that's a game back from you in the division. And it's not like it just happened to line up this way. Again, it's not like the Mariners have played two straight weeks in a row out of the All-Star break.

[00:20:33] And this is just how things are going to line up. No, they can re-slot this rotation however they want. Everybody's fully rested. But they're choosing to not pitch Logan Gilbert against the Houston Astros and instead having pitched against the Angels. I don't know.

[00:20:49] They like I'm going to scratch my head about this one. I hope it works out for the Mariners. I hope Brian Wu goes out there and spins six shut out against the Astros on Sunday and this is all put to rest.

[00:20:58] But I'll tell you what, if the Mariners lose this series, especially if they lose that Sunday game, say that Sunday game is a rubber match and they lose and Logan has just left not pitching. I think this conversation is going to come up again. And you know what?

[00:21:13] If they did this just to have him pitch on the final day of the season, like shouldn't the point be to make the final day of the season not matter? That should be it. You shouldn't have to need Logan Gilbert to win a game for you on game 162.

[00:21:26] That should not be the case. Right now, you should be winning as many games as possible between now and the end of the month. That is the goal. Because if you don't do that, then we're sitting here in the middle land.

[00:21:37] The Mariners could be out of the playoff picture. And then you really come into question. OK, so how aggressive really should we be at the deadline? Yeah, no matter who's available as Jerry Depoto goes on Brock and Salk

[00:21:48] this week and says that the trade market for the most part is stagnant because every team is essentially holding serve because they don't want to give up anyone up. Everyone's in the race. So what if the Mariners just lose a couple of games and then think, well,

[00:22:00] it's probably to price them on a way we'd really have to overpay and we're not in first place. So why should we do that? Why should we do that? And a part of that could be because they didn't start Logan Gilbert against

[00:22:10] the Houston Astros, the team you need to beat. This is the team you need to beat. This is it. I don't you don't you don't need to beat the Phillies as much. You don't need to be Dodgers as much. You don't need to beat the Yankees as much.

[00:22:20] I don't care about the rest of the Texas series in Houston series in September because you know what? If you're not in the race by then who cares? It doesn't matter. Rather than if you win, if you go and sweep the Astros this weekend,

[00:22:34] then your leads back to four and then you've got a decent grip on the AOS again and then you can go trade for Kyle Tucker anyway. It would be a lot easier to sell Kyle Tucker trade with a four game lead after this weekend.

[00:22:46] All the more reason to pitch Logan Gilbert in this series. But he's not pitching as at least as it's been spelled out. I don't see why it would change. Yeah, I don't know. I'm with you like you don't want to have game 162 matter. And guess what?

[00:23:03] Again, if it matters, if it ends up actually having like meaningful purpose the end of the year that last series against the A's, they will find a way to get Logan Gilbert to pitch again. There's so much time to re-slot this rotation moving forward in the second half.

[00:23:18] If you need Logan Gilbert to pitch in that Astros series and then pitch on the last day of the season or the last weekend of the season, you can find a way to re-slot the rotation moving forward to do that.

[00:23:27] Right now, you need to be worried about these three games against the Houston Astros again, I hope this all works out and that we're wrong and that we ended up just wasting a ton of time having this conversation.

[00:23:39] But I think the two of us saw this today and both said like what's going on? And for Brian Wu, too, for someone like they said, they want to get him back in rhythm. They want him to get back in the flow of pitching.

[00:23:52] Just starting at the Astros do that. I mean, this is a hot team. They've been scoring a bunch of runs. If you take a look at what Brian, what has made Brian Wuss successful this year, it's been pitching against bad teams. He's dominated terrible teams.

[00:24:04] You know who the Mariners play starting Monday next week? The Angels where he would have pitched anyway. And to be fair, Wu did not have a good last start against the Angels. However, he was bound to have a tough start at some point.

[00:24:17] Again, he's been so dominant when he's been on the field up till this point. But yeah, exactly like if you want to ease Brian Wu back into things, because it's no secret that he's battled a lot of injuries so far this year.

[00:24:27] When you rather have him face the Angels than the Astros, I would. That's just me. Yeah, I would too. And, you know, bouncing Brian Wu around to in this spot against starting him on Sunday against a against a hot team.

[00:24:45] And, you know, Brian Wu hasn't had a good start since June 6th. Quality starts June 6th. He wants six innings. That was last time June 6th. It's been a little bit and yeah, I don't know. I don't know, man. They got to this two weeks going to suck.

[00:25:03] It's going to suck. It's going to be two miserable weeks of podcasting. No, I'm kidding. It won't be miserable weeks because we love doing the podcast. I'm stretching the truth there. But watching the offense. Yeah, because it's the offense.

[00:25:15] The way it sounds like if you listen to Jerry DiPoto on Brock and talk, doesn't sound like much is going to change in two weeks until the deadline actually arrives. The way he was portraying it doesn't sound like many teams are answering phone calls right now.

[00:25:29] They're not even with the draft over. Doesn't sound like many teams are willing to part with any sort of player. That would be available. So let me say this because I saw that quote making its rounds on Twitter,

[00:25:41] especially about DiPoto saying we'd love to do something that has the potential to be dynamic. We just don't know if it's going to be available. We've gotten the sense that it may not be available. Let's also keep in mind people. No matter what happens at the trade deadline,

[00:25:55] you can't get worked up over what's being said on the radio unless you're being presented cold hard facts. If the Mariners had a trade for Luis Robert in the works right now, do you think Jerry DiPoto is going on Brock and talk and saying,

[00:26:06] yeah, we're on the verge of acquiring a potentially really, really elite player. And we just got to get it done. No, he's not telling the public that. So if you're getting mad about what's getting set on the radio, take a deep

[00:26:18] breath, you know when you can get mad after the trade deadline has passed. See what happens before then and then let's judge because going off what is being said or not being set on the radio is is not good for anybody's sanity. And neither is watching this offense.

[00:26:38] Well, yeah. So they do need to make some trades like let's not bury the lead here. They need to make some trades for some bats. But I'm not going to let Jerry saying giving a quote on the radio

[00:26:50] affect how I think the Mariners should or even will operate the deadline. Again, maybe it happens late. Maybe teams want to see how far into July they can get to really evaluate who they are as a team. But you know what?

[00:27:03] If the trade deadline surpasses and the Mariners have two or three new bats that are 105 to 110 WRC plus hitters may not be Luis Robert, but I'm OK with that. Before we get to Joe Doyle, let's hear a word from Game Time.

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[00:28:22] Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. So with Joe, we talk a little bit of trade deadline. We do spend most of the time, though, on the draft. We talked a little bit about the Mariners' first round pick, Gerangelo Sange on Monday when we did our reaction episode.

[00:28:41] Dive into it a little bit more in-depth with Joe Doyle. Also talk about the rest of the draft class as well. A bunch on Ryan Sloan, some of these relievers they drafted. They also drafted an extremely fun two way player who could sprinkle around

[00:28:55] in both given on what his tools project in the Mariners Minor League system. He's got a lot of fun details on that. The first time we've had a guest on three times. So congrats to Joe.

[00:29:05] He's the best we saw him in Dallas, but he's right there with us. We talk a little bit about the setup. That's how we lead off the conversation. He wasn't a fan either. No, no, I think everybody's in agreement that All-Star

[00:29:18] we could have been a little bit better set up. But the majority of this conversation is about the draft. Yeah, there's a little bit of trade deadline stuff at the end because again, Joe really knows the Mariners.

[00:29:27] I know he is mostly a draft guy, which is why we primarily had him on. But he really knows his Mariners. So we wanted to talk a little bit of M's with them. But yeah, he's the best like he breaks down the draft so well.

[00:29:38] We go through so many of the different picks. He really gives people an insight on what the Mariners are getting and what to expect. We spent a lot of time on St. John Sloan, which we talked about those two a little bit on our podcast on

[00:29:50] Monday, but we said we're going to have Joe on on Friday because he's going to break it down way, way better than we can. And that's exactly what he did. So you're going to learn a lot in this conversation about the Mariners top two

[00:30:00] draft picks and a bunch of their draft picks in general. So let's get to our conversation now with Joe Doyle. All right, we welcome on Joe Doyle, a senior analyst at Future Star Series and the host of the Overslot podcast recurring guest. Joe, good to see you.

[00:30:19] We just saw you this weekend in Dallas. I want to start off. I want to review of the Rodeo venue the MLB draft was held in. How was it? That's a good question. By the way, recurring guest.

[00:30:30] I if I remember correctly, I was the first guest ever on Marine Layer, wasn't I? The first guest ever you were the first guest. You're the first recurring guest and now I believe you're the first three time guest. So congratulations. What a feeling. What a feeling.

[00:30:46] You guys do you guys do sick work. No, so the Rodeo. Yeah, the what was it called Cowtown Coliseum? I think that's Stockyards, something like that. It was really cool, man. Inside the venue, the way that they had it themed out. It was very, very Texas inside.

[00:31:03] Couple of qualms that I have one. They only did the first round on television and then the whole place like emptied out, but they still kept just like showing the draft picks on an LED board while Greg Amsinger and the MLB network guys

[00:31:19] like were the only ones talking in this giant barn. So that was kind of awkward. It's kind of weird. And then the other thing was they try. I mean, it was 105 degrees. They tried as best they could to keep that thing cool.

[00:31:32] Man, by the second round, that thing was an oven. It was so hot and we didn't get out of there until like 10, 15 because the draft ended at, you know, 10 central. So a couple of things, find a cool venue and please start the draft at three o'clock next year.

[00:31:49] MLB, please, please. I want to do a checklist of things you could have potentially worn just based off your environment. Did you wear a cowboy hat? No, but I should know where cowboy boots. No, but now I'm kind of I wish I would have worn spurs.

[00:32:06] I would have been so sad. You have spurs. Oh, damn, missed opportunity. OK, I actually want to hear you elaborate on what like he decide what made this venue cool, because I'll be honest, the two of us looking at it like a pictures on Twitter

[00:32:19] and just from afar, we were like, this is where they chose to help the draft like we were kind of scratch our heads. I mean, following up after the draft being in Seattle, Seattle was I mean, you did it in a football stadium.

[00:32:32] The stage was all Pacific Northwest out. There was trees and this and that. The Seattle venue was really, really cool. But as far as Texas goes, like getting the the like the heart of Texas, the soul of Texas, I mean, you're in a rodeo barn with like

[00:32:49] wooden picnic tables and like church pews for all of the people staying in certain spots and like the rodeo bleachers were used. And I don't know, it just it was very, very Texas. It was it was done. It was done pretty cool.

[00:33:05] And, you know, a lot was made at least on the on on Twitter of, oh, it's like a dirt floor, like all the media and fans and players are like in the dirt. That dirt was hard as a rock. I mean, it was it was mud.

[00:33:18] There was there was no dust getting kicked up or nothing like that. So it didn't feel dingy. It actually felt pretty, pretty dressed up and it just captured the it captured the soul of of the city that we were in. Now, you and I talked before the show.

[00:33:33] We don't know how much soul Dallas actually has, but it did capture it. The problem for me with that event, you know, you could probably get past the rodeo barn aspect of it if like the dirt was actually a problem.

[00:33:48] I think I think that was the one thing that I think me personally would raise an eyebrow at. Yeah, no, it was mostly just hard. Yeah, if Major League Baseball wants to make this draft a thing, which is the entire reason they moved it to All-Star weekend,

[00:34:03] just have to do a better job of scheduling it, have to do a better job. You said you wanted it three o'clock, but also last year in Seattle, they have the draft right next to the All-Star Village.

[00:34:14] They have right next to the All-Star game where it's going to get played. It's right in the center where all the fans are. For most of our listeners, for any of our listeners who haven't been to Dallas,

[00:34:25] I mean, it is as spread out as it looks on a map. I mean, here is way, way out there. And the draft was not held in Dallas, which I think technically is the host city. It was not held in Arlington, where the All-Star game was being played,

[00:34:41] where the All-Star Village was, where the Red Carpet was, or most of the fans were. No, it was held in Fort Worth, which is another, what, 25 minutes away from Arlington. If you're in downtown Dallas, it's 45 minutes to an hour plus away. That's not convenient for anybody.

[00:34:58] Yeah, you know, how are they going to like they got to do a better job? I think so too. And another weird thing about Fort Worth, you know, when the draft got out, it was like 10, 10, 15. And so they called this area the Stockyards, which is like,

[00:35:11] it's supposed to be an old Western town. You know, it's tons of people, very touristy. It took me 20 minutes to get an Uber to go back to my hotel. Like there was no Ubers, there was no, there was no restaurants. Absolutely nothing was open when the draft ended.

[00:35:26] The only thing that was open was a Shake Shack, which was really good. But everybody was there. Like anybody that was at the draft had to go to Shake Shack. Everything else was closed. So I mean, yeah, dude, like having the draft be like almost a half hour

[00:35:41] away from the All-Star game and having to pick and choose which city you're actually going to stay in, depending if you're going to all those events, definitely sucked. And having everything in one spot in Seattle was a lot nicer.

[00:35:54] Man, if we're like my last thing on this is if we're going to stick on the food topic for a minute, that sounds like a nightmare in Fort Worth. I'll be honest, there wasn't many options in Arlington either.

[00:36:03] You could walk into Texas live and you've got some options. But if you want to do anything else, you're kind of out of luck. There was nothing there. You know, the cliches about Texas I found to be very, very true. It was like Chick-fil-A was always open.

[00:36:17] Shake Shack was always open. You could find either one of them like every other block. And then besides that, you're right, man. I didn't see a lot of variety in terms of options for restaurants and things like that, at least when All-Star festivities ended.

[00:36:31] So yeah, we were me and some friends went to Texas live as the celebrity All-Star game was going on. And that place was an absolute zoo during that time of the night. So yeah, Dallas definitely not. I went to Colorado. I went to Seattle, obviously.

[00:36:48] And now I've been to Dallas for these events. And Dallas certainly takes a pretty distant third. Yeah, I would say that too. I think all three of us could say we were, I guess, a little disappointed in the setup.

[00:37:01] I think it was OK for the players for going there, the hotels across the street. You get everything you need. You get in, you get out. The stadium's brand new. The playing field is fine. They had a fun.

[00:37:12] But the fans, you know, I hope Atlanta is better next year. I mean, just peeking on a map, I know Truist Park is great. It's outdoors different than the atmosphere that's in global. I feel, but it has a similar issue where it will also be

[00:37:26] a bunch of miles outside of the metro area and where a lot of people are going to be saying. So I think we're going to have to see next year as well. Probably when we'll have you back on again,

[00:37:34] we could just make this a daily, a yearly thing where we talk trash about the MLB's failed execution of the All-Star game. So I think that I think that I didn't think they failed. I just I just didn't think the venues that they chose

[00:37:48] and the time that they chose was was all that great. But the venue itself like, hey, I mean, Cowtown Coliseum for me, at least, it was a pretty cool venue. It just was out in the middle of nowhere. Let's get into the draft.

[00:38:01] Let's let's talk about something positive because the Mariners did do something positive in the first two rounds. I think that's what we'll spend a majority of the time on. But let's let's start with the switch picture. Gerangelo Sange is this one of the most unique prospects ever?

[00:38:15] Is that is that a fair statement? That's a good question ever. I I saw your guys's podcast about that the other day, about whether or not he's the most unique prospect ever. I mean, I'm trying to think of guys that have a more unique story

[00:38:28] that my only reservation is like Tim Tebow, for example. If you thought Tim Tebow was an actual prospect, probably a more interesting prospect. I just don't think Gerangelo Sange a year from now is going to be a quote unquote interesting prospect

[00:38:46] because I think he's just going to be a right handed starting pitching prospect. And so if you subscribe to the idea that he can switch pitch, then yeah, it's super interesting. But if you're like me and you think he's just going to be

[00:38:57] a right handed starting pitching prospect, I mean, he's probably just a really good starting pitching prospect. You know, but it is a good like it is a good question. There's there hasn't been hardly anybody that's been capable of doing this sort of thing.

[00:39:11] And I'm trying to think of like more interesting nuanced stories like Tebow and some of those like maybe Michael Jordan coming up and trying to do that sort of thing. Yeah, I mean, he's certainly up there. You could throw Kyler Murray in there, I guess.

[00:39:27] Yeah, yeah. That's another good one. I got Russell Wilson. I mean, yeah, you could throw the football baseball guys that Dion Sanders, Bo Jackson's of the world. I'm trying to think if there was a guy like I think Jose Altuve

[00:39:37] was was was a was a pretty interesting prospect when he was coming up five foot five inch second baseman that's lighting the world on fire. Like how does this make any sense? And then, you know, you know, the Angels drafted a guy

[00:39:50] that was seven feet tall this year, six foot eleven this year. That's a pretty interesting prospect. So or I guess one more as we could do, I think is I think it was Jim Abbott was his name who didn't have a left hand.

[00:40:02] You know, he just put his arm into the glove and made it work. So yeah, he's Gerangelo is certainly in the top 10. I'll give you that. So as we get into the switch pitching thing here, which is kind of the road,

[00:40:15] I think we're going down first because you just mentioned it. The Mariners say they're going to let him at least start out as a switch pitcher, although you and I think a lot of people believe his future is a right handed starting pitcher.

[00:40:26] My my follow up to that is I think you're right. And I think most people are right that his career will mostly be served as a right hander. But I wonder, do the Mariners have in the back of their mind

[00:40:37] the idea of trying to get creative with St. Joe a little bit in the sense of mostly he's going to be a righty. But let's say there's a lefty that comes up that has really bad platoon splits and doesn't hit against lefties.

[00:40:48] Could they say, oh, for one batter, you can switch over to the left side because the matchup plays right. And that's maybe why they'll let him continue to switch pitch. I think the only scenario that that makes sense is if they think

[00:41:01] they can unlock a little bit more from the left side. Now, he I mean, he obviously knows what he's doing. He's been up to like 94 from the left side, 95 from the left side. But I look at it like this, like if you have Joey Gallo coming up

[00:41:13] to the plate, right? And you're like, I don't really want to pitch to this guy from the right side is is 98 with a flat approach angle, a solid change up a back foot slider and a cutter.

[00:41:24] Is that a better option than a guy throwing 90 from the left side with a slower 81 82 mile an hour slider? For me, at least I would think that if you have conviction that you can command the change up, it's still a better option from the right side.

[00:41:44] Now, like I kind of alluded to, if Seattle thinks, hey, we can I mean, there's still some untapped potential here. Like we can get this guy 92 to 94 from the left side and firm up that breaking ball and see if we can get a third pitch in

[00:41:55] there, a curveball or a changeup. If they think that's possible and they want to spend development time on it, then maybe it makes some sense. But I just I have a hard time seeing a universe where the stuff from the left side will be more dangerous, even to

[00:42:12] the biggest platoon hitters than what he's going to be capable of from the left side. What was the point then if of drafting him this high? Because I feel like his stock is 15th overall pick. If he's a switch pitchers, that is that a that a first

[00:42:29] it seemed like he if he was just a right handed pitcher, he would have been picked a little bit lower. That would have been more his area, more of what his signing bonus would have been worth. Do you almost have to, if you're picking him at 15 say

[00:42:42] we need to utilize all these skills that we can. I don't think so. I think I disagree. I think this is about where he fits. I wouldn't have surprised me if Seattle saved like 200 grand on it, you know, like maybe the difference between pick 15 and pick 16.

[00:42:56] But I've said this on some other shows. I don't think like for Seattle specifically for the Mariners, Gerangelo Saintia is a better pitching prospect than Trey Asavage. But for the Toronto Blue Jays or for the New York

[00:43:10] Mets or for the I don't know Boston Red Sox, a team that hasn't shown the ability to develop pitching at a very, very high level yet. Trey Asavage is much more plug and play. Saintia is a better athlete. He's got better release metrics.

[00:43:27] He's got better feel for spin. He's got four pitches. He's got more fastball value. For me at least that there's untapped potential and pretty soft clay when it comes to developing Saintia. He's probably not going to move as fast as Trey Asavage is going to move.

[00:43:41] But for me at least Gerangelo is a potential low number two. Whereas Trey Asavage, I find a difficult development path getting him into more than a like a mid three, a solid three and even that is getting at least for my money, like the

[00:44:00] 80th, 85th percentile out of them. I'm glad you dove into that a little bit because I think a lot of Mariners fans when they saw you Savage sitting there at 15 figured that was the slam dunk pick, but they went

[00:44:11] with with Saintia instead and to your point and what you're elaborating on here, the upside seems to be higher. And with that, you know, he's got the low release angle too, which seems to be a Mariners theme over the last couple years.

[00:44:24] Like you think that's something that they really like to like between the Brian Wu type release angle. Bryce Miller's got a fairly low release angle. Like do you think this is a guy where they looked at him and said, oh, this plays into the type of picture

[00:44:35] we like. Yeah, without without question. And I think there is like a like a stereotype and a cliche with starting pitchers where it's like, why wouldn't you take the guy that six foot four, like six foot four is what they look like? Like that's what Scouts love.

[00:44:50] Yes, George Kirby and Logan Gilbert are both six foot four, six foot five. But I would combat that by saying how tall is Louise Castillo? How tall is Brian Wu? How tall is Bryce Miller? They're all if I'm not mistaken, all three of

[00:45:04] those guys are six, two or shorter. And I think Wu and Castillo are both six one. I could be wrong on that. Castillo might be six, two, but I don't think height precludes a pitcher from being able to be extremely effective.

[00:45:18] And so because of that, I would just throw that narrative out the window and look at the stuff and look at the athlete and look at what Seattle's done with similar clay over the years. If you're building a checklist for Sange in

[00:45:32] the minor leagues to develop over, let's say until the end of next year. So a year and a half into his pro career. What does he need to check off? Well, it starts with fastball command. It's not bad by any means, but if you're going

[00:45:45] to get the most efficient output out of Gerangelo, he's got to be able to hit all four quadrants and he's got to be able to pitch better to his glove side right now. He when he misses, he misses the fastball up and away.

[00:45:55] He misses the fastball into the right-handed batter's box. So the best starting pitchers in baseball and frankly, the starting pitchers that find success at the major league level are the ones that can command the fastball with conviction. Right? I think the other two are going to be the

[00:46:11] ability to throw the slider to left-handed hitters right now. He hasn't really had to do that. I know he did switch pitching a little bit in 2023 and 2024, but you have to learn how to throw a back foot slider with more frequency.

[00:46:26] He didn't do it a whole lot at Mississippi State. So that would be the next thing. And then the last, so I guess there's two more. One, you have to throw a whole lot more changeups because there's a whole lot more left-handed

[00:46:37] hitters that you're going to be running into in the in pro ball. That usage is has to has to go up. And then the last thing that I would add and this might be something that he can do when he makes his debut.

[00:46:46] This isn't a huge pressing thing. He's got to develop a consistent cutter that he feels comfort in. You got to be a four pitch guy and I think with his arsenal, there's the way that it's built right now in the direction his pitches move.

[00:46:59] He needs something that's a little bit flatter and moves to his glove side. So I would build a cutter in there as well. If we're going to move on here, second pick of the draft and honestly you can argue maybe

[00:47:12] it's not as unique as the Sanjipick, but it's up there in terms of them drafting Ryan Sloan because they way overslotted this guy by a ton. They're giving him what's reported about $3 million, which I'm going back and looking at Seattle's draft picks in the DePoto era.

[00:47:27] Not only do they seldomly take high school arms high, but the guys they have taken high the money they've gotten has not even been close to this like Walter Ford and Michael Morales got a little over a million dollars. Sam Carlson got $2 million all those years

[00:47:40] ago, but we're talking about $3 million for a guy that they clearly believe has the chance to be an absolute dude. So like what is it about Ryan Sloan? The Mariners love. Well, first of all, I would I would actually liken it to the Sam Carlson deal just with

[00:47:57] inflation. I would imagine this is a pretty similar value when you stack up the two bonus pools and where things have gone. So they paid a lot of money for for Sam Carlson and they ended up drafting like a 24 year old Wyatt Mills in that class just

[00:48:11] to make the numbers make sense. So in terms of like where Ryan Sloan fits in Walter Ford and Sam Carlson, like he's clearly the most put together pitching prospect they've ever landed. I mean that Ryan Sloan is one of the most put together pitching prospects from a high

[00:48:31] school standpoint that I've ever seen. I mean, he's literally bigger than every starting pitcher that is currently on the Seattle Mariners roster. He has five or 10 pounds on Logan Gilbert and everyone below that. So from that standpoint, he looks like a guy that could throw 180 innings a year.

[00:48:49] And right now he throws the fastball in the zone. He doesn't walk people. He's got to change up. He's got a slider. The only thing that I have hesitation with with Ryan Sloan is he doesn't spin the ball particularly well. I don't think he's ever going to possess

[00:49:02] a real weapon of a slider. It might be up there with like Bryce Miller, Brian Woo, like a solid. I would call those guys above average sliders. So for that reason, I don't think he for me and listen, this is just my opinion.

[00:49:19] I haven't seen Ace potential out of him yet, but he looks like a guy that could move very, very, very quickly and he could be in the big leagues by the time. You know, he's 22 years old. It would not surprise me if Ryan Sloan is

[00:49:29] a big leaker in 2020. What would that be? 2026 like late 2026 early 2027. That may be a little rich, but he should move quick. How closely on most boards or Sange and Sloan pretty close, right? I had I had Sange at 20 and I had Sloan at 19 or excuse me.

[00:49:50] I had Sange at 20. I had Sloan at 29. I know. I think pipeline had Sange at like 16 or 17 and they had Sloan at like 19 or 20. So yeah, I think I was actually one of the lower evaluators on Sloan in the industry. I mean, I think almost everybody had him

[00:50:11] in the 15 to 25 range and I had them just outside of that. But yeah, I mean clearly by all accounts the Seattle Mariners drafted two of the top 30 picks in the class. I don't think there's any. I don't think there's any hesitation with that.

[00:50:26] And the other thing I was seeing too while poking around with Ryan Sloan is that he's a Wake Forest commit. Is there like a personality type that comes along with that that teams that teams resonate with? That's a great question. I think teams resonate with Wake

[00:50:41] Forest pitchers themselves. I don't know if they resonate with guys that are committed to Wake Forest. Like Wake Forest just gets dudes, right? Like you have to be a curious type of a pitcher. You have to want to learn about the art

[00:50:56] and the craft of pitching to be committed to Wake Forest. I don't think there's any doubt about that. I mean, you don't see anybody going to Wake Forest. It's like, I know what a pitch. I know how to shape my pitches. Leave me alone.

[00:51:07] I'm going to do my thing. So in that respect, yeah, there's probably a little bit of a selling point. But I think it more applies to guys coming out of Wake Forest rather than guys committed to Wake Forest. I've got two.

[00:51:21] I've got two more Sloan questions for you once quick and one is why do you think he fell as far as he did? Was it all about a lot of teams thought he wasn't going to sign? So my hypothesis is and I don't have this

[00:51:36] from anybody, but my hypothesis is Seattle took Gerangelo St. Juh at 15. They knew their slot. I am guessing that when Ryan Sloan got by, I would, I would probably say the braves at 24. Seattle picked up the phone and said, Hey, we're coming up on slot value. Pick 28, pick 29.

[00:52:00] We don't know if you guys have any suitors in this range 25 to 28. We will guarantee Ryan three million dollars if you pull him down to 55. And once the first round was done, then it was kind of a done deal. Right?

[00:52:16] Like nobody else was going to overslot him in that range. So I think there's also just a general admiration between Sloan and the front office. It seems like they really, really get along. It's clear that they talked a ton leading up to the draft

[00:52:29] and in draft interviews at the combine and everything in between. So it's probably just a comfort thing and it sounds like Ryan probably just wanted the pitch for the organization. And then my other question about Sloan with that is

[00:52:41] so we listen to Scott Hunter give his pre draft media session about a week or so before the draft and he talked about we're actually looking at the potential of taking a high school picture in the first round this year.

[00:52:51] And he said, I know that's not something we've really done in the past, but with the way this draft may shake out we're looking at it now. They ended up taking Saint Joe, but my question with that is when he like to your best guess

[00:53:03] when he was talking about that, do you think they were referencing Ryan Sloan or was it more about their interested in guys like Cam and Eddie or Mayfield too? Yeah, listen, the Cam and Eddie talk really fizzled for me in talking to different people about two

[00:53:18] or three weeks before the draft. I don't think he was ever realistically in play and you saw where he landed. I mean, Cam and Eddie fell all the way to 24. I think there was just some red flags about that profile

[00:53:29] in terms of his ability to spin the baseball and develop a fastball value that pushed him down to where he did. So to answer your question I think the only circumstance where Ryan Sloan was going to be picked number 15 was if Saint Joe was

[00:53:46] off the board, was if Savage was off the board. And even then, you know, I think the Mariners were probably preparing for a very weird situation where someone like Connor Griffin was still on the board or Nick Kurtz was still on the board.

[00:54:02] Neither one of those things came close to happening. So I just in my opinion, there was probably several roadblocks in the way before Ryan Sloan was going to be option A at pick 15. I want to jump down the draft board a little bit.

[00:54:18] I want to touch on the other most interesting player in this draft out of Campbell Grant Nip. He's a two-way player caught and threw on the mound first year. I believe it's first year pitching this year. Now let me fill in our listeners on a couple

[00:54:30] of details if you haven't seen it. So this year before he got hurt, he hit 18 home runs in 29 games. He was leading the country. He has the exit velocity off his bat. He can get over 110 miles an hour when he's swinging it.

[00:54:43] He also can throw up to 97 miles an hour and a few appearances he had for Campbell this year. What kind of prospect does he have as the Mariners pick him in the sixth round? How do you how do you like look at this guy with

[00:54:56] the small samples he's has and try and think of what he's going to do at the pro level? Some of these stats he has just bonkers. 1500 OPS. That's insane. I mean, I'll do you one better. He hit up all 114 miles an hour this season for Campbell.

[00:55:13] So and you know, obviously that's with a wooden bat or with a with an aluminum bat. So it probably does make a little bit more sense to be closer to 110 and a half, 111 with a wooden bat. But he's he's exquisite like you mentioned

[00:55:28] Gerangelo Sange being one of the most interesting prospects. I would put Grant nip on that board too. I mean, you guys probably maybe you do. I don't know. There was a there was a pitcher slash first base slash catcher outfielder from Oklahoma State two

[00:55:42] years ago by the name of Nolan McLean that went in the second round to the Baltimore Orioles. He couldn't hit a lick. He couldn't hit anything. But when he did it was toast. I mean, it was absolutely murdered.

[00:55:56] He was also up to 98 on the mound with an 87 mile an hour slider. He's pretty much I mean, the Orioles have pretty good conviction now that he's just going to be a relief pitcher. That's kind of what I see here like Grant nip is a

[00:56:12] slightly better hitter like pure hitter than Nolan McLean was but he's got every bit the same amount of power. I think the most interesting thing about Grant is when you watch him pitch it's not like oh this is a catcher that's trying to pitch.

[00:56:26] It's like are we sure this isn't a pitcher that's trying to catch because he's a fun like for a guy that size he looks like a buffalo but when he's pitching I mean it's fluid it's athletic. It's he's got direction he can repeat and his

[00:56:42] fastball shape is is tremendous. So I think I mean it's pretty hard to hit in the big leagues and the bar to catch is pretty hard pretty high as well for those two reasons. I mean maybe he ends up at DH first base and they

[00:56:59] just let him hit a little bit for those reasons. I think he's probably going to end up being a high leverage reliever was this is pretty quick doing so was this his first year pitching. I know that he pitched if I'm not mistaken he

[00:57:13] pitched on the Cape and I think he actually hurt. I think he actually hurt his elbow in 2022. I actually don't know for sure. So don't quote me on that. I'd have to go back and look. I know that he has pitched in the past.

[00:57:26] I just don't know if it's been a big part of his arsenal like I remember and again don't quote me on this but I remember something in 2022 or 2023 where is like yes is granted. He's also up to 94 and then all of the sudden this

[00:57:41] fall leading into the 2024 season is when I started hearing about it was like hey this guy's blasting home runs and also he touched like 99 on the mound. That was about a year ago. And then yeah he just didn't play very much this year because of a bulky hamstring.

[00:57:56] So he's he's probably considerably more interesting than Gerangelo Sainte from like what is this actually going to be a year from now. So if we're going to talk about relievers here the Mariners when you make two picks like they did in the first two rounds that leads to

[00:58:15] having to underslot a lot of guys. So as a result they took a lot of relievers after that you know they take Hunter Cranton they take Charlie Bailenson and I'm wondering with a couple of these guys and Cranton in particular.

[00:58:27] I don't think it's a secret the Mariners are probably in need of some more bullpen held. Is there any chance that with these guys being senior signed bullpen arms that they could fast track to the bullpen on it like this might be

[00:58:39] crazy but as fast as this year. Not not Bailenson his stuff isn't isn't. It's it's not that it's not good it is good but it's not as elite as Hunter Cranton I mean Hunter Cranton touch 99 he sat 96 to 98 like he was routinely

[00:58:59] 97 and 98 he gets huge ride on the fastball not huge ride but above average ride on the fastball. The thing about the thing about Cranton is he was like in the 99th percentile for both with rate and chase rate on his fastball I mean it was like

[00:59:19] a 40% with rate and like a 36% chase rate so not only were people swinging through it all the time but they were expanding the zone just to try and get a piece of it so if you take that it's it's clearly it is clearly a plus performing fastball.

[00:59:39] I don't know if metric Lee it's going to grade out as such but it's clearly a plus fastball it might end up being a 70 grade fastball and then you toss in the fact that he throws an 87 mile an hour slider with pretty good two-plane tilt.

[00:59:51] He has the chance to pitch in the eighth inning for Seattle pretty quickly I don't think it would be this year but at the same time he's 2324 going to be 25 soon and they do need some sort of leverageable arm so maybe they give it a shot

[01:00:06] we'll see it depends on where his command is for those two pitches when they get him into I would assume Everett when we look at yeah go ahead Lyle sorry yeah no so I was just like the reason I started to think about that is the mirrors

[01:00:18] have clearly tried to find some ways to get some bullpen help this year like they they were using Logan Evans as a reliever throughout June they ultimately decided to move him back to a starters role like I've started to wonder if Troy Taylor

[01:00:29] might get a shot in the big leagues at some point this year as a reliever but just like going down the list of who in the system as a reliever might they call up if they can't swing a trade for somebody they like so I just started to

[01:00:39] think about maybe Cran so it sounds like that might be a little bit aggressive from what you're saying but it also sounds like wouldn't be totally impossible either you know the thing about the big leagues is the thing about the big

[01:00:51] leagues is your target in college baseball goes from a three foot by three foot box down to four quadrants like nine inch by nine inch box like you have to be able to hit your spots in the big leagues you can't be only fastball

[01:01:07] in the big leagues you can be exclusively fastball at the University of Kansas and when you're throwing 99 a lot of those guys will never see that sort of velocity ever again but in the big leagues people will just spit on your fastball

[01:01:20] and if it doesn't if you don't even have the chance to get to your slider they're just going to wait to see the fastball that they want to see grip and rip I mean any big leaguer that's worth a damn can put

[01:01:30] a 99 mile an hour fastball in play I mean we saw Josh Rojas who is by no means a decorated hitter almost put 103 104 in play several times against Ben Joyce so I don't think he's going to be in the big leagues this

[01:01:44] year it would wouldn't surprise me if he's in the big leagues next year but you really have to hone that command into a point where you feel comfortable he can hit ding ding ding ding like all four quadrants there's a couple more of these guys that intrigue me

[01:02:00] in the reliever mold of what the Mariners have drafted seventh round pick Brockmore out of Oregon dude has it looks like first of all he they stuck him in the bullpen he's 6 6 230 he's enormous throws 101 miles an hour has a high spin splitter

[01:02:18] his only issue is that he walks a bunch of guys and the other guy that I was intrigued with was one of the more notable names in this entire drought for the Mariners in the 11th round Christian little he was a projected first round

[01:02:30] pick out of high school went to Vandy transferred LSU hasn't been able to command his pitches as much what are your takeaways from what the Mariners can get from those two guys I think both of them are starting pitching prospects at least through 2025

[01:02:44] you got to see what these guys can do you six foot six in 101 miles an hour doesn't grow on trees right like Brockmore was one of the more interesting one of the more interesting pitching prospects for me at least on the upper class side

[01:02:58] in this draft and the thing that's important to note about Brockmore is he got better he got better and better and better now the I think the final two or three starts of the season his commander control might have faded don't quote me on that again

[01:03:12] like I'm trying to think back to looking at his numbers but he had a couple of blow up games with walks and then things really started to kind of lock in when they stretched him out and started throwing him three four five innings so it's fastball it's

[01:03:25] slider it's curveball it's changeup none of them are terribly refined in terms of command but I would be absolutely stunned if he wasn't a starting pitcher in this organization come April 1st 2025 I would you know he's 24 years old he's gonna be 25 next season and still

[01:03:43] I would lean towards take that slow because you might actually have a decent arm here what about Christian little yeah I don't I don't really know what to make of Christian little I've been watching that guy pitch since literally 2020 he pulled his name out of the draft

[01:03:59] early because he wanted to go to Vanderbilt goes to LSU everything kind of backs up on him at LSU the slider command got noticeably worse he left it in the in the meat of the plate a lot he is an interesting I'll be interested

[01:04:16] to see if Seattle went slightly over slot to get Christian little in the 11th round because I think he could have transferred or gone back to school and tried to prove he's worthy of day two money obviously think he's gonna be a starting pitching prospect

[01:04:31] through next season and then I don't know what what's gonna happen from there but yeah I mean he just he needs to get more value out of these pitches he just gets hit so hard and for a guy that doesn't walk a terribly a terribly

[01:04:43] high amount of batters and has the kind of stuff that he has there's really no reason for him to be performing the way that he's performed to this point so I'll be interested like he's going to be a pretty good test for this player development system

[01:04:58] so last year Joe we asked you who are some underrated guys in the Mariners draft class that you think have a chance to be really good and your answers last year were Logan Evans and Brody Hopkins and we look now it's like

[01:05:10] how about that so so I feel like like I feel like I have to ask you this again who in the Mariners class is underrated right now it could be somebody we've already brought up could not be that you're high on

[01:05:27] I don't even know if I want to answer this question after how it went last year it feels like such a bar that just feels like setting myself up for failure I have something right now I don't want to throw it away it's house money

[01:05:40] listen there are a couple of guys in this class that I like I'll start with the 10th rounder Anthony Dino Frio I don't know how this guy wasn't drafted in 2022 or 2023 he's six foot three he's athletic in the box 200 pounds there's bat speed

[01:05:58] he's got it's clearly above above average bat speed above average power maybe more than that it's a plus throwing arm in the field it's above average to plus run times he can play every single outfield position do I think he's going to hit enough to

[01:06:16] reach that like kind of like kind of Jake Fraley ceiling like I think he's probably got more power and less hit tool than Jake Fraley it's not a it's not a great comp by any means but if he hits enough he could be that sort of a fourth

[01:06:31] outfielder some guy with a little bit of pop actually honestly a better comparison might be Dom Canzon he's a better athlete than Canzon but both of those guys have exceptional power Dino Frio's got a better arm Dino Frio is a better runner than Canzon

[01:06:46] but kind of similar body body types but anyways I'm rambling a little bit Anthony Dino Frio would certainly be a guy that I would circle the other guy that I am a little bit more I like him I don't love him is Will Riley

[01:07:02] at a VRVMI I watched I don't know how it ended up happening but I ended up watching like three or four will Riley starts over the last two years it was almost always in February or March when he was facing like Mississippi State or Vanderbilt and

[01:07:15] he always got hit around but that guy looks like a pro like he looks like a legit pitching prospect it's an athletic delivery it's a super fast arm the breaking ball flashes there's fast ball value at the top of the zone I'd

[01:07:32] be interested in the same mold of like Logan Evans I will be interested to see if Seattle brings Will Riley along and kind of unlocks a little bit more performance from him because he certainly looks a lot more talented than his baseball card would suggest

[01:07:48] right now let's wrap it up with a couple of Mariners questions at the big league level as the trade deadline approaches if you're Joe gonna look at this roster and look at the next two weeks what are you gonna go try out there trying to acquire before the

[01:08:04] deadline approaches I would try to get bats TJ really breaking news that's that would be that would be my tact yeah I would try and go get bats I would just that personally I think the jazz chism rumors if he's legitimately a

[01:08:23] target for Seattle maybe it's more a sign of the health of the market than it is they're interested in actual player but I mean I don't understand that one at all at all I mean he's been less valuable this season than Josh Rojas and that's nothing against

[01:08:41] Josh Rojas but like when you're talking about from a value standpoint don't you want someone more valuable than Josh Rojas to supplement the team right now you're paying for two and a half years of a guy who has some whispers out

[01:08:53] there about being a bit of a nuisance in the clubhouse and another thing like another thing with the jazz chism things like do we really believe Scott service is the manager to tame that sort of a personality I don't I don't like now if it was

[01:09:11] Buck show Walter or Dusty Baker or what or Ron Washington sure like they could probably it's you know put up or shut up or you can go home type of thing I don't get that from Scott service so I'm out on jazz chism the

[01:09:25] guy I have circled is Nico Horner I think a year and a half of Nico Horner on this infield the ability to shift Polanco around and and Rojas around and kind of play matchups and get more contact into the lineup I think he would be an absolutely

[01:09:41] tremendous ad for this team and then beyond that like I think if you just replace Mitch Hannigar which is really crappy to say but if you replace Mitch Hannigar with like Mark canna someone who's going to put the ball and play draw some walks

[01:09:56] keep the conga line moving I think it actually turns this offense into a considerably more productive offense when you're not just shutting it down with strikeouts at all times and then double play balls at all times so I don't think the team is a is

[01:10:11] a Luis Robert away from looking like a World Series contender again I think they're a Nico Horner and Mark canna away with you know Julio and JP warming up a little bit I think if those four things happen you're going to feel a whole lot

[01:10:28] better about the Seattle Mariners on August 10th so I have a couple follow-ups for you and for those who don't know by the way for those listening they obviously Joe spends most of his time doing doing draft coverage and things like that but Joe

[01:10:40] can talk Mariners as well as anybody so that's why we're sitting here talking to Mariners with Joe where I got my start exactly like like people forget that I feel like because people go to you for draft stuff so much these days but yeah you're a

[01:10:50] Mariners guy through and through right I think Lyle I think people forget that because I just don't want to engage with it anymore on social media I mean with all due respect to anybody that's listening to this Mariners Twitter is like the most

[01:11:03] toxic place when they're when they're losing I mean I watched Seattle win they took they won three games in a row I don't remember who was against his right before the break they won three games in a row the third one being the first game of the

[01:11:17] Angels series and then they lost a tough game against Tyler Anderson with Brian Wu on the mound a game that like the odds would say you probably aren't the favorite to win in the first place with Brian Wu on the mound Tyler Anderson on

[01:11:30] the mound he's an all-star and like people went nuclear on social media over that I was like they just won three in a row and they just lost a game they probably should have lost what's going on so anyways yes I live

[01:11:41] in Seattle I'm a Mariners fan through and through I just don't like to engage about it on the internet much can you believe that was ranked the nicest fan base in baseball TJ beat me to it where did that come from on bleacher report oh okay

[01:12:01] I mean I remember seeing that that day and I was like there's no way like like the word the nicest fan base what like what does it feel like to be right in the middle of the Twitter verse of one of those 29 other

[01:12:14] teams because I've seen what it's like on the Mariners side and it is not the nicest fan base. I would say the Seattle Mariners fan base is I mean I would say we're nice. I don't think I think we're crazy like I think

[01:12:30] that's the word like we're psychotic. We are psychotically online all the time but like we're probably nicer and we put up with baseball better than the Phillies and the Red Sox and the Yankees and the Cubs or the man the Cubs fans are just

[01:12:45] they are relentless on social media. Those would be the ones that immediately stand out but I don't think there's I certainly don't know if there's a louder fan base on Twitter. Yeah. Okay. So you said that better than me maybe crazy and very much online

[01:13:01] is the better way to put it. Yeah. Anyway yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I guess we got a little side track but I do have a couple of followers for you. Do you trust Nico Horner's bat going back to that? I trust Nico Horner's bat to

[01:13:15] just be what it is like it doesn't need to be a 15 Homer 300 hitter like it just needs to be a guy that you can bat seventh in the order and when there's two guys on with no outs he moves them over like that's all

[01:13:27] you need like the amount of times that this offense has stalled when like whoever Mitch Garver and Ty France got on and then you know Dom Canzo strikes out or Mitch Hannigar hits into a double play like it's such I'd you know this this lineup obviously

[01:13:46] has issues from its star players but even more so than that the fringes are just brutal right now. I mean you can't expect to win if the seven eight nine guys not only can't move the conga line but also can't get on base

[01:14:04] for JP or Julio in big moments. I mean we talk about as a fan base we talk about oh Julio hasn't been that good in big situations. I would point out he has not had very many opportunities in big situations.

[01:14:20] We don't we don't talk about it much at all because he rarely comes up with runners in scoring position and a big moment on the line. It's just there's nothing at the bottom of the lineup that can prepare like they can set that up.

[01:14:32] So I would challenge people to kind of look at that like yeah has he been he's actually been really good in big moments but my issue is there just has not been many of them not many opportunities for him. So here's my other idea with TJ

[01:14:48] and I have talked about this a little bit about how the Mariners could potentially operate the trade deadline and this would be new territory for the front office because they don't usually go out and trade for rentals but we started to balance the idea

[01:15:00] of how do you get offense for this year and not waste the 2024 pitching staff while also not depleting your farm system because I think it's it's becoming clear like the amount of star level bats that are going to be available at this deadline

[01:15:12] are very few and far between and the ones that are out there like Robert White Sox like the White Sox are asking for unreasonable packages for him. So we floated out to my idea of what if you actually went in for once got some rentals this year

[01:15:24] you went and got Brandon Lau we said you wouldn't got Michael Conforto if those teams like end up selling and maybe somebody else that's a corner infielder primarily first baseman like do you think they'd consider that this year knowing what they have in the pitching staff? Yeah, definitely

[01:15:40] I think Brandon Lau has been a sensible target for Seattle for years. He's always been hurt. He's always had a back injury and so he's never really made a ton of sense at the deadline but I think Brandon Lau makes a lot of sense.

[01:15:55] I think the only hesitation that I have with Lau is if you go and acquire him you are essentially acquiring a third Josh Rojas and Jorge Polanco and with what Jorge Polanco showed in the two weeks leading up to the All-Star break

[01:16:12] I think you kind of have to ride with him for another couple of weeks and see what you have. I have a hard time finding an infielder that is going to be available at the deadline that is better than what Jorge Polanco could turn into

[01:16:26] in August and September and you know for better or for worse and I'm not saying that Seattle should should absolutely 100% rely on him the rest of the way but I am saying it still might be too early to give up on him so that's a roundabout way

[01:16:42] of me saying Nico Horner is right-handed he is a better platoon option he just fits against left-handed pitching a little bit better so I don't hate the Brandon Lau idea by any means in fact he might be a better offensive option right now than Josh Rojas.

[01:16:58] Rojas has been really tough since the middle of May but then you don't have a third baseman so at the end of the day Seattle's got to find a way to go acquire at least I mean I think they need at least two bats even if they are

[01:17:11] guys that bat 7th, 8th or 9th in this lineup and give the team a chance to score one or two runs in some of these moments that they just seem to crumble. Last thing for me Joe we're talking about external guys

[01:17:25] what about internal guys that are not currently on the 26 man roster is there one guy you feel like should have a chance to make a massive impact in the final two months? Not on the 26 man roster as in like a prospect?

[01:17:40] Prospect or a player who has been on the roster before and is not now? You know I just don't see an avenue where Tyler Locklear makes I mean I know that he's not on the 26 right now if that's what you're asking

[01:17:57] I can't see a situation where Tyler Locklear is a significantly more productive option than Ty France and Mitch Garver I mean you already have two Ty Locklears on the roster now Mitch Garver could get hurt catching and Ty France could take another pitch off of his back elbow

[01:18:21] so I wouldn't count out the idea that he won't be up but I don't think he is a considerably better upgrade than any of those guys and you know beyond that like Ryan Bliss is certainly a means to an end in terms of a late inning

[01:18:38] base running addition. I think Jonathan Classe is a much better base runner than Ryan Bliss and I would prefer that he spend probably the month of September up with the Big League Club rather than Ryan Bliss. So yeah, I mean to answer your question like

[01:18:54] Cole Young, Harry Ford. I don't think they're going to be options not right now. So no, I mean that's a roundabout way of me saying I know I don't think there's a whole lot of reinforcements that can be called upon right now.

[01:19:09] Yeah, no, I'm with you on that like we've talked about the idea of Ford and Young at points, but like you just look at what they're doing and it seems like they like it's not a knock on them.

[01:19:19] They just might not be ready to get called up in September this year. They might just need a little bit more time. That's how it looks like that's how it looks. I think to us, I would say. I mean, if you call up Cole Young right now,

[01:19:28] you're probably getting Joshua O'Hoss like it's you know, it's up the middle defense. It's it's second base and shortstop, but you're not getting a guy that's going to be. I can't imagine Cole Young would be better than a 90 WRC plus as things stand right now.

[01:19:44] And you know, his his profile at double A is being buoyed so hard by walks and he's still only 21 years old. So I wouldn't rush him. I would just let him get a seasoning and maybe he'll be an option in 2025. Joe, this has been fantastic.

[01:20:02] You're the best as always. No one breaks down the draft better than you do and we will have to eventually all do something in person together because we still have it and we got to do it here soon.

[01:20:12] So hope that comes here soon before the summer is over. Thank you so much, Joe. We appreciate having you on. Yeah, man. This has been fun. I the trilogy is finally complete. We're going to have to start season there. The back third of this trilogy.

[01:20:26] We got to start episode four, five and six. We'll get there. Thanks, Joe. All right guys. Hope you guys enjoyed that conversation with Joe Doyle. He is awesome. Let's hope to rangel of stange's pitching some time in Everett this year because if he's going to be an Everett,

[01:20:40] he's going to be right down the road. So you guys should want to go out and see go out and see him. I know I will so appreciate all Joe's time. Give some great analysis. Hopefully you guys learned a bunch about the draft

[01:20:50] and a little bit about the trade deadline too because he gave us thoughts on that. So with that that'll just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Lair podcast. You guys know the drill. You want to listen to the full form podcast.

[01:21:00] You can do so wherever you get your audio pods. Make sure to download leave a five star review leave a written review. If you're watching on YouTube make sure like comment and subscribe and follow us on social media. We're on Instagram, tiktok, Twitter and YouTube shorts

[01:21:12] at Marine Lair pod. That's TJ. I'm Lyle as always we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon.