Episode 172: Jack McMullen (Just Baseball)

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[00:00:55] Welcome to episode number 172 of the Marine Layer Podcast.

[00:00:59] We welcome on our friend Jack McMullen from Just Baseball.

[00:01:03] We take in the 2024 Mariners season, discuss some potential off-season strategy,

[00:01:08] get a perspective on bad ownership from Jack, a former keyword former White Sox fans,

[00:01:14] and we tie in our passions for baseball that led to podcasting as well.

[00:01:20] Here's your guys' reminder if you want to stay on top of all of our stuff.

[00:01:23] Make sure you go and download these podcast episodes if you're listening.

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[00:01:46] Let's get it rolling.

[00:01:59] And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast,

[00:02:02] part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network,

[00:02:04] recording Wednesday evening, October 9th.

[00:02:08] Yes, Wednesday, not Thursday, because this episode is interview only with Jack McMullen.

[00:02:12] That's a fantastic conversation coming up here in just a little bit.

[00:02:16] But Lyle, I do have to acknowledge here at the top,

[00:02:20] our ideal Mariners outcome for this playoffs,

[00:02:23] as we articulated on our social media channels earlier this week.

[00:02:26] If you haven't seen it already, go check it out.

[00:02:29] Our philosophy was essentially, while the Tigers might be fun,

[00:02:34] it would be a worst case scenario for the Mariners to have them win the World Series

[00:02:39] because of the current amount of money they're paying their 26-man roster.

[00:02:43] Well, right now, they lead the Guardians in the Division Series 2-1.

[00:02:48] They won today on Wednesday 3-0.

[00:02:52] So that's not good for the Mariners.

[00:02:53] But everything else in terms of money spent worked out.

[00:02:57] The Yankees won.

[00:02:58] The Mets won.

[00:02:59] The Dodgers are winning right now.

[00:03:02] See, most of these series, the winner is okay.

[00:03:05] Mets, Phillies, whoever wins, it's fine.

[00:03:07] Dodgers, Padres, whoever wins, it's fine.

[00:03:10] That's the National League.

[00:03:12] The American League?

[00:03:13] Yeah, that's where it gets dicier.

[00:03:14] Look, there is going to be an outcome one way or another

[00:03:18] where a team that doesn't have great ownership

[00:03:20] and probably doesn't invest enough in a winning ball club

[00:03:23] is going to be in the ALCS

[00:03:24] because either the Guardians or the Tigers have to win that series.

[00:03:27] So somebody's getting to the ALCS between those two.

[00:03:30] We can just accept that.

[00:03:32] But in the other series, yeah, we need the Yankees to win

[00:03:36] and we need the Yankees to get to the World Series.

[00:03:38] So yeah.

[00:03:39] Do you believe this?

[00:03:39] That we're out here championing the New York Yankees?

[00:03:43] Championing.

[00:03:44] Let me make sure I say that correctly.

[00:03:45] The New York Yankees.

[00:03:47] We are.

[00:03:48] Let's also be very clear that baseball could use a Yankees,

[00:03:51] Dodgers, or Subway Series, World Series beyond belief.

[00:03:55] They need it, especially with all the TV stuff.

[00:03:57] And I personally think it would be the most entertaining product

[00:04:00] they could put out there.

[00:04:02] Yeah.

[00:04:02] I think Bobby Witt's super cool,

[00:04:04] but I think Aaron Judge and Juan Soto in the World Series

[00:04:07] is a little bit cooler.

[00:04:08] Yeah.

[00:04:08] And while again, the Tigers are fun,

[00:04:11] but who are you tuning in on the Tigers to watch?

[00:04:14] Besides Tarek Skool if he's not pitching.

[00:04:17] Kerry Carpenter's turned a lot of heads these days,

[00:04:20] but yes.

[00:04:21] Is he a household name like Judge Shohei Soto?

[00:04:23] No, of course not.

[00:04:24] Mookie Betts.

[00:04:24] No.

[00:04:25] No.

[00:04:26] The Guardians have J-Ram,

[00:04:28] but would still rather watch Judge and Soto.

[00:04:31] It's a crime that baseball doesn't market that guy better.

[00:04:34] J-Ram went 40-40 this year.

[00:04:35] I feel like we don't hear it talked about at all.

[00:04:38] Yeah, because someone else won 50-50,

[00:04:40] and 40-40 is not as cool anymore.

[00:04:42] Right.

[00:04:43] I'm just saying Major League Baseball does an awful job

[00:04:45] of marketing Jose Ramirez.

[00:04:46] He should be so much more on a superstar platform than he is.

[00:04:52] Look, I'm a Mariners fan and saying this, like, J-Ram absolutely is a better baseball player at this current time than Julio is,

[00:05:00] but Julio is marketed way better than Jose Ramirez.

[00:05:03] Could you think if the Mariners actually tried to swing that trade when J-Ram was holding out?

[00:05:07] Was it before the 22 season?

[00:05:09] Yeah.

[00:05:09] Yeah.

[00:05:10] Yeah.

[00:05:11] They should have done that.

[00:05:12] As we talk about a little bit with Jack, taking a look at the Mariners' third base position,

[00:05:18] yeah, there's not exactly a whole lot there for the future.

[00:05:22] J-Ram would be pretty cool right now, and he signed for a very Mariner-friendly deal, by the way, with the Guardians.

[00:05:31] So, God, that should have happened.

[00:05:33] He was literally not going to get on the bus to opening day.

[00:05:36] He was not going to get on the bus, and it happened last minute.

[00:05:39] Jerry DePoto should have been standing in front of the Cleveland Guardians bus to go to Sky Harbor and fly back to Cleveland, blocking him.

[00:05:49] Yeah.

[00:05:51] And who would the Mariners have had to give up prospect-wise in that trade?

[00:05:54] Because most of the guys that are beloved in this system now weren't here back in 2022.

[00:06:00] Belney and Celestine wasn't part of the system yet.

[00:06:02] Colt Emerson wasn't a part of the system yet.

[00:06:04] Johnny Farmello wasn't a part of the system yet.

[00:06:06] It's a lot of other guys that I think I would have been okay trading for Jose Ramirez.

[00:06:10] And then extending him.

[00:06:12] And the Guardians would have had no leverage anyways, because what are they going to do?

[00:06:16] Well, they ended up extending him, but yeah.

[00:06:18] Well, I know, but if they were going to trade him, they knew they could not extend him, and he was going to walk.

[00:06:25] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:26] So, what leverage do you have? You don't have any.

[00:06:29] It is still crazy he didn't let himself walk, period, because he could have gotten so much more money than he got.

[00:06:34] Yeah, he took about half as much as he should have made on the open market.

[00:06:38] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:40] Anyway, somebody's going to have to win that Guardians-Tigers series, but the Yankees need to get to the World Series in the American League.

[00:06:46] They do, because as I said, the Tigers being in the World Series, as cool a story as it would be for them, is very, very bad.

[00:06:55] Not just for the Mariners, but for the game of baseball.

[00:06:58] For other owners to sit there and be like, they had a team with one starter get to the World Series?

[00:07:03] Well, we don't have to pay anybody ever again.

[00:07:06] Man, they have an $18 million payroll on their playoff roster.

[00:07:10] Think about it even more.

[00:07:11] It's not even the totality of the roster.

[00:07:14] The Mariners see that they're going to have three starters worth at least, or sorry, four starters.

[00:07:19] I can't do math.

[00:07:21] Five starters worth at least $20 million and realize we don't have to pay any of them.

[00:07:27] Yeah, let's just pick one, keep them around, and run out bullpen games for the rest of time.

[00:07:33] No, you turn the other four into relievers, or long relievers essentially, do what the Tigers do, and they just have a bunch of bulk guys in their bullpen, and you essentially cut down their value in half.

[00:07:43] That's called market efficiency.

[00:07:46] Man, I'd love to hear an open-ended conversation with all those starters that would get turned into relievers by this organization and have their value in free agency just skyrocketing.

[00:07:56] They would plummet.

[00:07:57] I'm sure they'd be really, really charismatic, upbeat.

[00:08:02] They'd be over the moon being turned into relievers.

[00:08:05] Well, this is when we need the personalities to come out and we need the players to go on talk shows and publicly request trades.

[00:08:11] It's like they need to go out there and start acting like Devontae Adams or Aaron Rodgers or pick your favorite player.

[00:08:22] It's just, yeah.

[00:08:23] I mean, that would be hilarious, but it just does not happen in baseball.

[00:08:26] Part of me wishes.

[00:08:27] Well, it should.

[00:08:28] It should.

[00:08:29] It should.

[00:08:29] I don't want it to happen with the Mariners because you want to see all those guys kept here, even if the reality of that is low.

[00:08:36] But baseball in general, oh, the sport would be so much more popular if they operated like the NBA or the NFL where you had diva wide receivers and all these superstar scorers leading the charge and how the league is run.

[00:08:48] Oh, you wonder why people are so in tune with those sports because let's create this hypothetical here.

[00:08:56] Could you imagine if the like the TV cameras came to Logan Gilbert after Scott Service got fired?

[00:09:01] And let's let's invent a feud between Logan Gilbert and Scott Service.

[00:09:05] And Logan goes out there and goes, oh, I didn't get him fired me or Julio.

[00:09:14] I didn't get him fired in case you don't know what I'm referencing.

[00:09:18] It's essentially what Aaron Rodgers did to his coach this week.

[00:09:21] But that kind of person, I think that would be significantly more entertaining.

[00:09:27] Oh, you're talking about a storyline like in the NFL where Aaron Rodgers new head coach of the New York Jets gets his old coach fired because that is that is essentially what's happening here is Aaron Rodgers is he was already the head coach of the New York Jets.

[00:09:41] But now he is absolutely the head coach of the New York Jets, which was funny today hearing him on McAfee being like, oh, yeah, I had nothing to do with this.

[00:09:48] These these rumors are ridiculous.

[00:09:50] It's it's that classic clown meme of we're all trying to find the guy who did this.

[00:09:55] Could you imagine?

[00:09:56] Could you imagine being in a media setting where something like that happens in baseball or even here in the Pacific Northwest where, yeah, there's drama like that?

[00:10:04] The unprecedented stuff.

[00:10:06] Well, I don't even see something like that happening with the Seahawks, let alone in a different sport.

[00:10:10] So I wish it would, because we would have certainly have a lot to talk about.

[00:10:15] Yeah, more than we do these days when there's not a lot of news going on.

[00:10:20] Luckily, though, we had a really fun conversation with Jack.

[00:10:23] So we're going to hold off on doing another round of our report cards and position grades because we had a nice lengthy conversation with Jack.

[00:10:31] It was a ton of fun.

[00:10:33] And we figured, yeah, this is this is really good stuff and it makes for a really good podcast episode.

[00:10:38] So we're going to get into all of that in a minute.

[00:10:41] Before that, I want to talk to you guys about we want to talk to you guys about our friends over at Pagatch's Pub 85.

[00:10:46] That's over in Kirkland.

[00:10:47] You know, October is the best time in the sports calendar.

[00:10:49] So if you want to watch baseball, you want to watch football, you want to watch basketball, you want to watch any college athletics.

[00:10:55] Head over there because there's 20 TVs in that place.

[00:10:57] You can watch a bunch of different events.

[00:10:58] You can do that along with get some great food.

[00:11:01] And there's happy hour specials that are three and four dollars.

[00:11:04] Three and four dollar drinks Monday through Friday from two to six p.m.

[00:11:08] Those are awesome deals.

[00:11:09] You can get all of that over at Pagatch's Pub 85.

[00:11:12] That's in Kirkland.

[00:11:40] Thank you very much.

[00:12:08] So it was a really fun conversation with Jack McClellan.

[00:12:11] We covered a range of things.

[00:12:14] Talked a little bit about the Mariners season that just happened.

[00:12:17] A couple of things ahead in the offseason.

[00:12:19] And then a couple of things that tie in directly with Jack and his fandom.

[00:12:23] He is a note the specific word here.

[00:12:25] Former White Sox fan.

[00:12:27] And he full well knows what bad ownership does to a fan base.

[00:12:32] It was good to get his perspective on that.

[00:12:34] And then I really enjoyed our conversation at the end, which you guys should definitely stick around for.

[00:12:39] Whole conversation was great, but it does give people a peek behind the curtains of how we think as baseball fans, how passionate we all are, why we talk baseball publicly for a living.

[00:12:53] And just from Jack's perspective, our perspective, I think it was a really fun way for three people who are doing very similar things to all have real conversations about it.

[00:13:02] And by the way, we've had Aram and we've had Peter on this show in the past who are the three that make up the Just Baseball show.

[00:13:09] The network we are a part of very happily.

[00:13:11] And for those of you who haven't checked out the Just Baseball show by now, you're way overdue because those guys genuinely do an unbelievable job with it.

[00:13:19] Jack talks about it's hard to really have a pulse on all 30 fan bases.

[00:13:23] Those guys do about as good of a job as anybody possibly could to have a pulse on and talk about all 30 teams very well.

[00:13:30] Because what do most national shows do?

[00:13:32] They're talking about four teams.

[00:13:33] They genuinely talk about every team and talk about them in depth, along with being charismatic, along with being funny, along with being interesting.

[00:13:42] All the more reason to check out this interview and to check out the Just Baseball show as well.

[00:13:46] Last thing, we start the first few minutes of the conversation talking about the Cape League.

[00:13:51] And for context for that, for people that didn't have it previously, the three of us were all together in the Cape Cod League, Summer Baseball League, doing internships, broadcasting internships.

[00:14:01] TJ and I did it for two years.

[00:14:03] One of those two years, we were all out there at the same time as Jack.

[00:14:07] That's how we got to meet and got to know each other all the way back when.

[00:14:09] And we were kind of talking about some of the players that were in the league that year that are now in the big leagues and potentially in the playoffs.

[00:14:16] So for those that maybe not pick up on that in the first couple of minutes of the interview, that's why we're talking about it.

[00:14:20] So just for just for some context.

[00:14:22] One of those guys we did not mention, Lyle, Dominic Canso.

[00:14:26] Oh, right.

[00:14:27] And he was with Jack.

[00:14:29] Yep, exactly.

[00:14:30] So to hear more of that conversation, let's get to our interview with Jack McMullen.

[00:14:38] All right, we got Jack McMullen on with us.

[00:14:40] Play-by-play broadcaster, one of the hosts of the Just Baseball Show and a co-host of the Call Up.

[00:14:46] Jack, thanks so much for taking some time to join us.

[00:14:49] How have the playoffs been treating you?

[00:14:51] It's been a pretty awesome field so far.

[00:14:53] It's got to be a lot of fun to talk about every day.

[00:14:56] It's really fun to talk about every day.

[00:14:58] Thank you guys for having me.

[00:14:59] This is a good 2018 Cape Cod Baseball League meetup here that we're doing right now.

[00:15:04] I'm thinking about the guys that were out on the Cape in 2018 when we were out there announcing that are still in the postseason right now.

[00:15:12] Because like the names that jump to my mind are like George Kirby, who is obviously not in the postseason.

[00:15:18] Sorry to start it on that note.

[00:15:19] But like a Bobby Miller is not pitching for the Dodgers and a Reed Detmers is not in it with the Angels.

[00:15:25] And I'm trying to think about who else.

[00:15:27] Torkelson is there.

[00:15:28] Alec Manoa is not pitching in it.

[00:15:30] But what?

[00:15:31] I've got Brewster represented, right?

[00:15:33] And then TJ, you were YD.

[00:15:35] And Lyle, I know you were Hyannis with our guy Chris Lucy.

[00:15:39] Yeah, so where?

[00:15:41] Who else we got?

[00:15:43] I know no one on YD is in the playoffs right now.

[00:15:46] I mean, so Pepio's not in the playoffs.

[00:15:48] He's always the guy that jumps out to me the most from that team because he's probably been the most successful.

[00:15:54] Actually, you know what?

[00:15:55] I thought of one other.

[00:15:56] Maybe you don't even know this, Jack.

[00:15:58] But for a week, Vinny Pasquantino was in Hyannis, hurt his back, went home.

[00:16:03] Yep, the Old Dominion.

[00:16:04] Yeah, Old Dominion, right?

[00:16:05] He was a monarch, Vinny P.

[00:16:07] How about that?

[00:16:08] He's dealing with another thumb thing now.

[00:16:10] He's playing with a papier-mâché hand.

[00:16:11] But just enough offense for the Kansas City Royals, I guess.

[00:16:14] But no, it's been fun to kind of keep tabs on all those guys that were out there in 18.

[00:16:19] And then I wasn't out there in 19 as well.

[00:16:21] But I kept tabs because I was really excited.

[00:16:24] And the Cape was the best summer I've ever had.

[00:16:26] And 19, I was calling short season ball.

[00:16:29] And during the day, I was tuning into Cape Cod Baseball League games.

[00:16:32] Because that started the baseball degeneracy.

[00:16:34] But it was also a fun thing to do.

[00:16:36] And you got to watch guys that might have been repeat offenders out on the Cape.

[00:16:40] Yeah, Jack, do you remember that classic opening series of the playoffs in 2018?

[00:16:46] The upset?

[00:16:47] The upset sprung by the Whitecaps?

[00:16:50] Those gritty caps?

[00:16:52] I don't really remember it.

[00:16:54] What I remember is I lived in Yarmouth Port.

[00:16:59] So like right near YD.

[00:17:01] And I would go see Pickler's Antics with Scott Pickler.

[00:17:06] And then my partner, Tim Leonard, tried the donut burger at YD.

[00:17:12] Oh my God, it's the best thing on earth.

[00:17:13] The best thing on earth.

[00:17:14] Which one did he get?

[00:17:16] I was scared of it.

[00:17:17] I think the normal one.

[00:17:18] The glazed donut.

[00:17:19] So the one with the bossing cream on it.

[00:17:22] Yeah.

[00:17:22] Yeah.

[00:17:23] Like yuck, man.

[00:17:24] Dude, it's actually seriously good.

[00:17:27] I'm out.

[00:17:28] I'm serious.

[00:17:28] I'm out.

[00:17:30] I'm serious.

[00:17:31] It's like as unique as sort of like the...

[00:17:35] What's the style of bun you guys would serve your hot dogs on at Brewster when it's just

[00:17:40] like the sandwich bread?

[00:17:42] Oh, yeah.

[00:17:42] I know what you're talking about.

[00:17:44] To be honest, I ate a lot of PB&Js that summer.

[00:17:47] Well, you allowed both.

[00:17:48] That's another thing.

[00:17:49] You're around ballparks a lot.

[00:17:51] And like when you're around ballparks as much as I'm sure you guys are as well,

[00:17:55] the smell of concession food starts to really turn you off of like eating that concession food.

[00:18:01] I really do not eat much concession food and I still don't, to be honest.

[00:18:04] I pack lunches and dinners all the time.

[00:18:07] I do the same thing.

[00:18:08] When I go to the ballpark, I usually bring my own stuff because one,

[00:18:11] you start to smell the same food all the time.

[00:18:13] And two, you don't always want to pay for it.

[00:18:15] So you start to bring your own stuff.

[00:18:17] Exactly.

[00:18:18] That's how it goes.

[00:18:19] Now, I'll ask you this to tie it back to the Mariners here.

[00:18:21] You didn't want to eat these donut burgers in the Cape League.

[00:18:23] Would you rather eat that or would you rather eat the grasshoppers they serve in Seattle?

[00:18:27] I would rather eat the grasshoppers because at least that's unique.

[00:18:30] Like I've seen donut burgers elsewhere and I am, again, like totally disincentivized from it.

[00:18:36] I feel like when I see it, I'm always thinking, okay, I'll do it next time.

[00:18:41] So I know to run a 5k before I come to the ballpark.

[00:18:44] Like I just, I would feel so bad about eating that donut burger.

[00:18:48] And I saw Tim try it, my partner.

[00:18:50] And I was like, I just, I can't do this without prepping for two, three days before this.

[00:18:56] Did you guys, when you came to Seattle for the All-Star Game in 2023,

[00:18:59] did you guys go try the grasshoppers?

[00:19:00] Were they available?

[00:19:02] They were available.

[00:19:03] We didn't try them.

[00:19:05] We were only in the ballpark.

[00:19:07] We were there for the Derby as well, but we were there for the Futures game.

[00:19:10] I didn't see them on a Futures game lap.

[00:19:13] And that's probably when I was feeling adventurous.

[00:19:15] The Derby, I think I didn't really want to miss anything.

[00:19:19] So I just grabbed some popcorn and sat down, but I did see the grasshoppers there and I didn't do it.

[00:19:23] And I have some regrets.

[00:19:24] So I'll come see you guys.

[00:19:25] And, you know, at some point, whether it's in April or September, a couple of years down the line.

[00:19:31] Well, because we took you guys to the pier after we walked down there, but that was the wrong, I think, tour strap.

[00:19:36] I think we should have gone for the more unique option.

[00:19:39] Yeah, probably.

[00:19:40] That was a miss on our part as hosts.

[00:19:41] Probably.

[00:19:42] No, you're not missing much.

[00:19:44] Believe me.

[00:19:44] I've tried them.

[00:19:45] They're bad.

[00:19:46] I'll just say them.

[00:19:47] Yeah.

[00:19:47] Could you imagine getting a foot stuck in your teeth?

[00:19:51] So I've tried a lot of weird stuff.

[00:19:54] Like I've done the Rocky Mountain Oyster thing in Colorado, and I can't imagine getting a foot stuck in my tooth.

[00:20:01] Because, like, it's the experience.

[00:20:03] You're paying for the experience.

[00:20:05] You are.

[00:20:06] Yeah.

[00:20:06] Yep.

[00:20:07] You're not wrong.

[00:20:08] Let's get to the baseball on the field, Jack.

[00:20:11] Yeah.

[00:20:11] How is it possible the Mariners wasted a rotation this good?

[00:20:14] When you look at this team, like, what stuck out that was so wrong about the 2024 Mariners?

[00:20:21] The batter's eye?

[00:20:22] Is that fair?

[00:20:25] Dude, I have no idea why nobody can hit there.

[00:20:29] And, you know, you see Julio's numbers in what?

[00:20:34] In 22.

[00:20:35] And you're just, you're waiting.

[00:20:39] You're waiting for all these guys, and you're waiting for that career rejuvenation from Jorge Polanco.

[00:20:44] And, you know, like Teoscar Hernandez even two years ago, or I guess last year now, right?

[00:20:49] 2023.

[00:20:50] Like, that guy's good.

[00:20:52] They're all very good hitters, and they're just not doing anything in Seattle.

[00:20:57] And my question every single night I watch is why?

[00:21:00] Why is every game I'm watching 1-0 in the bottom of the sixth inning?

[00:21:04] A, because Gilbert's shoving, and because Wu is shoving, and Bryce Miller looks awesome, and he had a crazy breakout.

[00:21:11] But B, there's just something wrong there.

[00:21:14] And I have no idea what it is.

[00:21:16] And by there, I don't mean on the Mariners roster.

[00:21:19] I mean at that ballpark.

[00:21:20] I have no idea what goes on there.

[00:21:22] And I love my West Coast ball.

[00:21:24] Like, I love getting home from, you know, a game in Indianapolis, and I can turn on the start of a West Coast game.

[00:21:30] And I turn on the Mariners because I know that they're going to go quick, and I can't figure it out as to why.

[00:21:38] I mean, so there you go, people.

[00:21:40] For anybody listening, people that cover this game nationally like Jack does, they have all the same questions as all of us.

[00:21:45] Where it's, they bring in guys that are established.

[00:21:48] They bring in good big league veterans.

[00:21:50] And Jorge Polanco was one of the best offensive second basemen in baseball a couple years ago.

[00:21:55] Yeah.

[00:21:55] And all of a sudden, he puts up a WRC Plus that's under 100.

[00:21:58] I don't really understand.

[00:22:00] And like, you know, Colton Wong, I kind of get that he was on his way out of the league and yada, yada, yada.

[00:22:05] He should not be a, you know, releasable player when they do go make that acquisition.

[00:22:11] And they bring Colton Wong in.

[00:22:13] Polanco, same deal.

[00:22:14] Like, really?

[00:22:16] He was that bad?

[00:22:17] Are you sure?

[00:22:18] Cal Raleigh?

[00:22:19] Cal Raleigh could be the best catcher in baseball.

[00:22:22] I firmly believe.

[00:22:24] And he clips 30 every given year.

[00:22:26] But who's to say that he wouldn't be spraying doubles around if he had, you know, the right feel at T-Mobile Park, you know, 81 games a year.

[00:22:35] There are just, like, so many questions I have for what happens at that ballpark.

[00:22:40] It is one of the true enigmas, I think, in Major League Baseball where there's just no rhyme or reason.

[00:22:46] Like, I can't think of other places.

[00:22:48] You know, I know shadows at some places are crazy.

[00:22:50] I know the shadows in Milwaukee, you know, really weigh on people.

[00:22:53] I know, you know, some guys really struggle to hit in Tampa.

[00:22:56] Willie Adamas felt freed when he got out of Tampa Bay.

[00:22:59] He was like, I just could not hit at the trot.

[00:23:01] But there's something about Safeco that I just do not understand.

[00:23:05] You know, they're actually, we've heard that they're going to actually take a look at changing the batter's eye this offseason.

[00:23:11] And they have changed it before as well.

[00:23:14] So this would be what, well, the third iteration of it at least?

[00:23:18] Yeah.

[00:23:18] So they've changed, like, the coloring or the painting on it because they, what is it?

[00:23:22] They have some new age lighting or painting on it, whatever it is.

[00:23:27] But now they're actually going to look and say, yeah, this thing's slanted.

[00:23:30] How do we straighten it out?

[00:23:31] Because that seems to be the gripe.

[00:23:33] So that's the thing.

[00:23:34] I was listening to a previous episode that you guys did.

[00:23:37] Former player.

[00:23:38] I'm blanking on who it was exactly that said it's ever so slightly at a slant.

[00:23:42] And I'm just thinking about how much that's going to cost to fix.

[00:23:48] And the answer may be a one-year deal for a platoon corner outfielder.

[00:23:52] And I think I'd rather have the batter's eye fixed than a one-year deal for a platoon corner outfielder.

[00:23:58] We have our rule, Jack.

[00:24:00] One platoon is allowed.

[00:24:01] Now, is our wish ever granted?

[00:24:04] No.

[00:24:04] Absolutely not.

[00:24:05] No.

[00:24:06] But, you know, Jerry DePoto, I think, would choose.

[00:24:08] Because, yeah, you guys should think about adopting the San Francisco Giants as your National League team.

[00:24:13] If you really hate platoons, it's like, you know what?

[00:24:15] Let's subject ourselves to just chaos here.

[00:24:18] Platoon chaos.

[00:24:20] Yeah, because even the guys that are the best hitters, like Lamont Wade, don't play every day.

[00:24:24] He faces righties.

[00:24:25] No.

[00:24:25] And we're watching a team possibly get to the ALCS here that is not letting their best hitter play ever.

[00:24:33] Correct.

[00:24:33] Because he can't hit lefties.

[00:24:35] Exactly.

[00:24:36] Yeah.

[00:24:36] And we're talking about Kerry Carpenter, for those that didn't pick up on that.

[00:24:39] So, yeah.

[00:24:40] Yeah, it's crazy.

[00:24:42] So, because to your point with all that, if you pay the money to fix the batter's eye, to even contextualize it a little bit more, if that fixes Mitch Garver, for example, isn't that worth it?

[00:24:52] You don't have to bring somebody else in.

[00:24:54] That's the thing, man.

[00:24:55] It's like you look at the investments.

[00:24:56] And I understand that the overwhelming majority of investment in terms of on-field products should be going to the guys that are actually playing the game.

[00:25:04] But if you have a deficiency that I think is now disincentivizing players from signing with your organization, you should probably go fix that.

[00:25:12] Because it's going to have a ripple effect beyond a two-year deal for a corner outfielder.

[00:25:16] Like, okay, you pay somebody two years $34 million.

[00:25:20] That's great.

[00:25:21] They're gone in two years.

[00:25:23] If you fix this, it's almost like kind of setting up a recruiting network.

[00:25:28] It's like being nice in a certain area.

[00:25:31] If you're a college football program and you really want to plant roots in, like, South Florida, you go.

[00:25:36] You get that one guy who has nothing but great things to say about this university, about this program.

[00:25:42] And then all of a sudden, the next wave of South Florida products want to come to your university and play football at your school.

[00:25:50] That's kind of how I view this.

[00:25:53] So much was made about, speaking of San Francisco, the neighborhood of San Francisco, right?

[00:25:58] And how players did not want to go sign there because the league-wide preconceived notion of San Francisco is that it's not a good place to raise your family.

[00:26:05] It's not a good place to live.

[00:26:07] I don't buy that.

[00:26:08] But word gets around quick.

[00:26:11] And I guarantee you every hitter that is hitting the open market is saying, do I really want to go play in Seattle right now?

[00:26:18] Like, nobody hits there.

[00:26:19] So I do think that it's absolutely worth it in terms of not only the immediate future and, like, benefiting a Mitch Garver or benefiting a Cal Raleigh, but also down the line.

[00:26:29] You can get that guy.

[00:26:31] If you get into a bidding war, this could be something that is a deal-breaker for a guy when it comes down to $5 million, $6 million.

[00:26:39] Hey, I might take a $5 million cut on a total money basis to go play somewhere where my numbers can be better and I can look forward to that next contract.

[00:26:49] Do you feel like there is somebody out there, though, that would be available this offseason through trade or on the free agent market that would make the most sense for the Mariners?

[00:26:58] Yeah, I think that guy Teoscar Hernandez, who's finishing up a one-year deal.

[00:27:04] Good luck convincing him.

[00:27:06] Well, I was going to say, so you might already know this, but he was the one that came out and said, yeah, that batter's eye, I can't see it.

[00:27:13] Like, I can't see the ball at T-Mobile.

[00:27:14] He said it at All-Star Weeks, so I don't know if he signed him back here.

[00:27:18] No, I don't think so.

[00:27:19] But that was entirely a joke.

[00:27:22] I will say, somebody along those lines, I do kind of view the gold standard offseason target for Seattle as Anthony Santander in Baltimore.

[00:27:31] I think Santander could make a lot of sense.

[00:27:33] Switch hitter, 40 homers this year.

[00:27:36] I know there are some defensive deficiencies there, but at the end of the day, that bat, you need an injection of juice.

[00:27:44] And that guy can absolutely be an injection of juice.

[00:27:46] I also don't think he's going to cost that much because of the lack of value defensively.

[00:27:51] You also have the age thing working against him at this point.

[00:27:55] And he's kind of a sitting duck.

[00:27:56] It doesn't seem like Baltimore wanted to pay him.

[00:27:58] So he's going to hit the open market.

[00:28:00] And I don't know how many teams are going to be bidding ferociously this offseason.

[00:28:06] There's a lot of things in the air right now with Major League Baseball, with season control of a couple telecasts here and the Diamond deal falling through.

[00:28:15] It's going to be a really weird offseason.

[00:28:18] I feel like there are going to be some guys where Santander hits the open market two years ago.

[00:28:23] He is a lock to get $100 million.

[00:28:25] In the 24-25 offseason, I can't say that about anybody.

[00:28:30] I can say that about Burns.

[00:28:31] I can obviously say that about Juan Soto.

[00:28:32] I can say that about Willie Adamas as well.

[00:28:35] But aside from those guys, I don't know who the nine-figure players are.

[00:28:39] And it's not going to be Anthony Santander.

[00:28:40] So I think the Mariners could absolutely make a play at that.

[00:28:45] It's actually super interesting.

[00:28:46] I thought he was a slam dunk even right now to get $100 million.

[00:28:49] Defensive deficiencies aside, just 40 bombs, offensive threat, can plug him in the middle of any order.

[00:28:56] But the TV stuff is real.

[00:28:59] And we saw it have effects last offseason.

[00:29:03] And if it's going to get worse now, maybe some of those second-tier guys behind the Sotos do get less money.

[00:29:08] And you see some really big markets and some really big organizations.

[00:29:13] And baseball markets.

[00:29:15] I'm going to use St. Louis as an example.

[00:29:17] St. Louis is not in New York or L.A., obviously.

[00:29:19] But in terms of market share, I think the TV viewership in terms of St. Louis Cardinals telecasts has a greater market share than any other market in Major League Baseball.

[00:29:30] They love their Cardinals there.

[00:29:31] They have invested in the big league product in St. Louis for years at this point.

[00:29:36] And what are they doing?

[00:29:37] They have a plan for John Moselock to get out after next year.

[00:29:41] And they're allocating more resources towards their minor league development.

[00:29:44] The Boston Red Sox have done that as well.

[00:29:47] They've kind of catered to optimizing their player development.

[00:29:50] The Yankees have optimized player development.

[00:29:52] I think there are a lot of teams that are trying to do the raise thing without full-blown doing the raise thing now.

[00:30:00] And all of a sudden, it might not be the best time to be a free agent.

[00:30:04] Obviously, it still is because you're getting a payday that you've never experienced before in your life.

[00:30:08] But the goal for every single player in Major League Baseball, and it still is, was get to free agency so you can get your bag.

[00:30:16] There are very few teams that are going to pay everybody what market value deems them as worth.

[00:30:22] So I do think that that is advantageous to the clubs at this point to possibly get a discount on guys that are second, third-tier free agents.

[00:30:32] Because Santander is awesome.

[00:30:33] He's not the top-tier free agent this year.

[00:30:35] It's Soto.

[00:30:36] Then it burns.

[00:30:37] Then everybody else follows in place.

[00:30:39] How many other teams are there like the Mariners?

[00:30:42] If you were to just give a ballpark number of unwillingness to just flat-out spend anything, are we talking 15 teams?

[00:30:48] Are we talking 20?

[00:30:50] Yeah.

[00:30:51] Would you say the Mariners are flat-out against spending anything?

[00:30:56] I mean, yeah.

[00:30:57] They went on the record in the past couple weeks saying it's not a good strategy to go out there and spend actual money on real players.

[00:31:05] So I'm going to take that as they're going to increase the paywall by about $15 million max this offseason.

[00:31:13] So how many other teams are in that bucket?

[00:31:15] Fair.

[00:31:16] My favorite part of that from Lyle was just the...

[00:31:18] Mm-hmm.

[00:31:19] Very clear.

[00:31:21] I would say 15 is a good guess.

[00:31:24] I think there are some organizations that are probably concretely in that bucket.

[00:31:30] I think the Mariners and the Twins are in identical situations right now, where Minnesota, I think they were one of the teams that will be taken over by Major League Baseball in terms of local telecasts.

[00:31:40] So, you know, the Twins, like, they've expressed interest in cutting.

[00:31:45] I know last year San Diego expressed interest in cutting.

[00:31:48] I don't know if they're going to do that.

[00:31:49] Ha-Sung Kim is on the open market.

[00:31:51] Like, I don't know if San Diego, if that's in the budget to bring Ha-Sung Kim back.

[00:31:55] It probably is not.

[00:31:57] But, yeah, like, just scanning through, like, the other teams that may fall into that.

[00:32:03] I mean, Baltimore just got new ownership, so they may spend a little bit.

[00:32:09] Cleveland has new ownership, but Cleveland is Cleveland, so they'll probably just hold serve when it comes to payroll.

[00:32:15] But I would say any of these teams in middle ground, I would assume that they're doing a similar holding pattern thing to Seattle, unless they, you know, go on the record and say, we are increasing payroll.

[00:32:27] So then, Lyle and I have been pretty consistent in this point.

[00:32:30] If they're not going to go spend, I mean, there needs to be a ton of focus on the current players on their roster to get better after a number of them had incredibly disappointing seasons.

[00:32:38] And it all circles back, I think, to one guy playing centerfield who had, in what Lyle and I viewed as, the most disappointing season of anyone on the Mariners.

[00:32:47] So how do the Mariners get Julio back to being Julio?

[00:32:52] Do you think that's a Mariners thing, or do you think that's a Julio thing?

[00:32:56] It's probably a little bit of both.

[00:32:57] Yeah.

[00:32:58] I think it's absolutely a little bit of both.

[00:33:01] I think the Edgar Martinez thing has the chance to help him a little bit, but I also think part of it is he's just got to figure some things out.

[00:33:10] Yeah.

[00:33:11] He is a supremely confident baseball player, and he is best when he has confidence.

[00:33:17] And I think about those 17 hits in four games.

[00:33:19] Like, that guy had a four-hit day, and then he felt awesome, and then he had a five-hit day, and then he felt awesome, and then he had a four-hit day.

[00:33:26] Julio is one of the streakier players in Major League Baseball.

[00:33:29] And I think you guys have done a really good job of documenting that over the course of his career.

[00:33:34] And listen, I listen start to finish throughout that entire Julio Rodriguez episode.

[00:33:38] Like, who is Julio Rodriguez?

[00:33:40] And that's a great question because he is buoyed by months.

[00:33:45] He's not buoyed by seasons at this point.

[00:33:48] And it's a tiny sample if you go in the scope of seasons.

[00:33:50] But when you go in the scope of months, you guys mentioned it, and you probably know the exact number off the top.

[00:33:55] But, I mean, there are four months, what, in his three-year career at this point where he has been a top-five player in baseball.

[00:34:03] And the rest of them, he's been an average Major League Baseball player.

[00:34:06] Like, it really helps that he plays center field in an incredibly high level.

[00:34:09] And it really helps that he's very, very fast.

[00:34:12] But at the end of the day, like, you create immense value.

[00:34:15] You sell tickets.

[00:34:16] You sell jerseys because of what you do in the batter's box.

[00:34:20] And you can't get away with being awesome two months out of the year.

[00:34:24] He needs to be awesome five months out of the year.

[00:34:27] And I don't know if that's a buy-in thing.

[00:34:29] I would assume it's not because he seems really freaking bought in every time I tune in.

[00:34:35] But he needs to find something that aids consistency.

[00:34:39] I have no idea what that is.

[00:34:41] If I knew what that is, I'd be hitting cleanup for the Seattle Mariners.

[00:34:45] Because, like, it's such a hard thing to do, man.

[00:34:49] He's a physical specimen.

[00:34:51] He is going to blossom into an excellent leader.

[00:34:55] I think that's abundantly clear.

[00:34:56] Like, his maturity at that young of an age.

[00:34:58] People forget how young he still is.

[00:35:01] It feels like the world is his oyster on a baseball field.

[00:35:05] But if he finds that secret sauce of consistency, I mean, that unlocks that, you know, Julio that everybody dreams of.

[00:35:11] And I think nationally, like, you hear the name Julio Rodriguez.

[00:35:14] You think about the two months in a given year that are just awesome.

[00:35:18] And let's see that every month.

[00:35:20] That would be great.

[00:35:21] Yeah, I think that's absolutely true that he holds a little bit more weight on the national level because he's been marketed so well.

[00:35:27] Then he probably, not that he doesn't hold good weight in Seattle, but obviously Mariners fans watch him every day.

[00:35:32] And they know how his ups and downs have been.

[00:35:34] Or people more on a national, yeah.

[00:35:36] No, I mean, it's living with a roommate, right?

[00:35:38] Like, you have a roommate.

[00:35:40] Everything they start to do just kind of pisses you off a little bit.

[00:35:43] Like, you know, leaving the dishes in the sink for too long and, like, not taking your laundry out of the dryer for too long.

[00:35:50] Like, that, I feel like, is the way Seattle is ingesting Julio Rodriguez.

[00:35:54] And correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like everybody else is like, oh, this guy's awesome.

[00:35:57] Like, you better be so thankful to have Julio.

[00:35:59] And you guys are like, yeah, he's great.

[00:36:02] He's an amazing building block.

[00:36:03] I love that he's our franchise cornerstone.

[00:36:05] But, like, I need a little bit more from you if we're going to achieve that.

[00:36:10] You nailed it right on the head.

[00:36:11] So, I think that is a part of it.

[00:36:15] But then I think when we're talking about sort of the blame going on both sides, then you can look at the Mariners part and sort of perhaps, if this is really who Julio is for the rest of his career, and he's going to be inconsistent, especially offensively.

[00:36:29] Then it falls on the Mariners that they mis-evaluated their roster and have not built it correctly to win enough games.

[00:36:36] Because if they look into the future and anticipate that Julio Rodriguez is not going to carry the lineup for an entire season, then the lineup needs to be built accordingly.

[00:36:49] And through the three seasons of his career, that hasn't been the case.

[00:36:52] They have not done that.

[00:36:53] And hence, they've made the playoffs one or three times in his career.

[00:36:55] With the offense being a major setback and have major flaws throughout those three years.

[00:37:02] So, I think that's where some of that frustration comes in as well with all of that.

[00:37:07] But also, some of it falls on guys like J.P. Crawford, who had an unreal season in 2023 and then had the worst season of his career in 2024 for essentially no reason.

[00:37:16] Besides the fact he just wasn't as good.

[00:37:19] A couple injuries, but that didn't really hamper the offensive production.

[00:37:28] Then you have spots all over the roster.

[00:37:29] Third base was bad.

[00:37:30] We've talked about Jorge Polanco.

[00:37:32] The only saving grace was Cal.

[00:37:35] That was it.

[00:37:36] So, that's why I think it really is so important for the Mariners.

[00:37:40] Let's get one positive comment in here while we're talking about all this negative stuff for the Mariners.

[00:37:46] If I say the name Cal Raleigh, your reaction to that is what?

[00:37:50] Pay him.

[00:37:51] I don't know if the funds are there, but pay him.

[00:37:55] It's really hard to find a top five catcher in baseball.

[00:37:58] But when we go into next year and everybody wants to do their top tens, if I see a top ten catcher list that doesn't have Cal Raleigh in the top five,

[00:38:08] I'm almost invalidating that.

[00:38:12] He is that good.

[00:38:13] He is an elite defender.

[00:38:15] He handles the best rotation in Major League Baseball.

[00:38:19] And he hits 30 homers.

[00:38:21] It's really hard to find people like that.

[00:38:24] You have this.

[00:38:26] Grasp onto him.

[00:38:27] Harry Ford can figure out another place to play.

[00:38:30] Harry Ford can find reps.

[00:38:32] Do not think that it's okay to let a top five catcher in baseball walk because you have Harry Ford coming.

[00:38:37] No prospect is worth that.

[00:38:40] It takes a little bit for these guys to solidify themselves as top ten catchers in the game.

[00:38:45] I mean, look at what happened in Arizona this year with Gabriel Moreno.

[00:38:48] I know he was dealing with injury, but Moreno was not lighting the world on fire.

[00:38:53] When he was on the field, I'm not saying this guy's one of the best catchers in the game.

[00:38:56] How could the Blue Jays have done this?

[00:38:59] It looked brutal in 2023 when the Blue Jays did trade Gabby Moreno and he was helping Arizona through to the World Series.

[00:39:08] But it's hard to find consistency at the catching position.

[00:39:11] And what Seattle has is not only success at the catching position, but the C word, consistency at the catching position.

[00:39:18] And that is something that cannot be understated or cannot be overstated.

[00:39:26] That's my one thought on that.

[00:39:28] It's like, yeah, it's fun and he's the big dumper and all that.

[00:39:31] And it's enjoyable from a national lens.

[00:39:33] But this guy needs to be a Seattle Mariner and you figure out what to do around him.

[00:39:38] It's funny you say that about the list.

[00:39:40] Somebody left him off their top 10 period.

[00:39:43] Not top five, but top 10 going into this year.

[00:39:45] Who left him off top 10?

[00:39:47] Well, it was Fox Sports MLB.

[00:39:49] Oh, there you go.

[00:39:50] People were mad on Mariner's Twitter, to say the least.

[00:39:53] Actually, people still resurface that tweet now.

[00:39:56] So, yeah, it hasn't gotten by people's wayside.

[00:40:00] You know, the Harry Ford thing, that sparks one more question before I know we change subjects a little bit.

[00:40:06] But we were going to ask on the topic of the Mariners finding ways to get better offensively for next year.

[00:40:12] If they're not going to sign anybody, you have to go out and do what Jerry DiPoto's bread and butter has been his entire tenure, which is make a trade.

[00:40:18] So, it's been a talking point for a few weeks now, but I'll turn it back on you.

[00:40:23] If you're the Mariners, if it's the only way, do you trade one of your starters to go get a bat from somewhere?

[00:40:33] Yeah.

[00:40:34] Yeah, like...

[00:40:35] You know what?

[00:40:36] I'll do this while you think about it for a second.

[00:40:38] I'll even throw out some names.

[00:40:40] So, I'm almost thinking in the sense...

[00:40:43] The reason I mentioned Ford is maybe he's a piece in that package, too.

[00:40:46] If your plan is to keep Raleigh long-term, you could put together a package with him, with a pitcher, and find something back.

[00:40:52] One name we've thrown out a bunch and one team we've obviously linked a bunch is the Orioles because they have all these bats.

[00:40:57] And we've talked about, not saying it's going to happen, but one of their third basemen, whether it's Kobe Mayer or whether it's Jordan Westberg, in the sense of they need pitching.

[00:41:05] They essentially have two third basemen.

[00:41:07] Yeah.

[00:41:08] Maybe they would entertain the thought.

[00:41:10] So, like, if it was Westberg, who's obviously the more proven player, who's an all-star, would you think about that?

[00:41:15] Yeah, I think you think about it.

[00:41:17] Now, you have to decide who your untouchables are.

[00:41:20] And, you know, your untouchables in this rotation right now, I would assume, are Castillo, Kirby, Gilbert.

[00:41:25] Like, those are the three that you're not moving.

[00:41:27] So, then it comes down to Wu and Miller.

[00:41:30] And this year kind of muddied who I would rather move at this point because Miller was that good.

[00:41:37] Now, Wu was awesome, but Wu dealt with fragility issues.

[00:41:40] And, you know, that's not something that a lot of teams are lining up to trade for.

[00:41:44] Look at Baltimore.

[00:41:46] They're dealing with fragility issues left and right.

[00:41:48] Like, Grayson Rodriguez missed, you know, better half of the year.

[00:41:51] And Kyle Braddish, elbow sprain, turned into Tommy John.

[00:41:54] John Means, second Tommy John.

[00:41:56] There are a lot of hurdles there when it comes to Wu.

[00:42:01] Now, Miller, I love him.

[00:42:05] And I just think, like, if I'm Seattle, I have four more years of control of this guy that just gave me 160 innings at a just under three ERA or just over three ERA.

[00:42:21] And I see a guy that, like, is very clearly a gamer.

[00:42:24] There were some big regular season games that he was just on cruise control through.

[00:42:28] And I love that.

[00:42:30] If it gets you an all-star third baseman, I understand.

[00:42:33] But could you start with a Ford and, you know, I have no idea what the value of, like, an Emerson Hancock is anymore.

[00:42:41] But a Ford and, you know, maybe a Logan Evans that popped up.

[00:42:45] Although I have no idea if you see him as, you know, a swingman down the line for the Seattle Mariners at the big league level or, you know, Michael Morales, guys like that.

[00:42:53] I wonder if Ford is a headliner and other pitching pieces could get it done for Westberg.

[00:42:59] If the answer is no and it needs to be Miller, you sit there and you sleep on it and, you know, you take a walk and, you know, you don't put earbuds in on that walk.

[00:43:10] You just kind of listen to the birds and listen to the waves as you're near the water and see what that tells you.

[00:43:16] It'd be really hard for me to part with any of those five.

[00:43:20] Yeah, I think you're seeing, like, again, you do this thing every day on a national level.

[00:43:25] You host a big national baseball podcast and just like everybody around here, you're saying the same thing, which is, man, I would lose a lot of sleep trading one of those guys away.

[00:43:35] Even if it's for somebody proven with a lot of club control.

[00:43:38] Like, you've got your backbone of your team and you're talking about potentially jeopardizing it.

[00:43:44] And the thing is, like, just remember how quickly starting pitching goes.

[00:43:48] Like, we're watching the L.A. Dodgers in an elimination game run out Ryan Brazier to open that game.

[00:43:54] Really?

[00:43:55] Like, we're there.

[00:43:56] You know, this was the team that had Glassnow and Yamamoto.

[00:43:59] And, I mean, Otani's on the shelf.

[00:44:01] But, like, Bobby Miller, Gavin Stone, Emmett Sheehan, Walker Bueller coming into this year.

[00:44:05] And now they're running out Ryan Brazier to open an elimination game.

[00:44:09] And, like, things go quick.

[00:44:12] The Mariners were very lucky with the amount of starts that they got from everybody.

[00:44:18] Like, four of those guys were just consistent stalwarts in that rotation.

[00:44:22] Every single turn through, they were good.

[00:44:24] But the Houston Astros, I want to say it was 2022.

[00:44:28] They had seven guys start games for them over the course of that season.

[00:44:32] Seven or eight guys start games for them.

[00:44:33] And one of them was McCullers, who, you know, I don't know if Lance McCullers is like, I have no idea what's going on with that guy.

[00:44:39] I was going to say, does he still exist?

[00:44:41] Apparently.

[00:44:42] And apparently he's rehabbing.

[00:44:43] And he just keeps aggravating something in his forearm.

[00:44:46] I have no idea how that works.

[00:44:47] They paid him a lot of money.

[00:44:48] So, you know, good for him.

[00:44:50] He's just kind of hanging out at this point.

[00:44:51] But, you know, like, then you see JP France get the ball for them.

[00:44:55] And Eric Getty was brutal when he got the ball for them, you know, before he hit that crazy stretch right after the All-Star break.

[00:45:02] So, you know, pitching can go very quickly.

[00:45:05] When you have five that are this good, I would certainly caution before moving one of them.

[00:45:13] I think you're right on about that.

[00:45:16] As we, Jack, as we move into this next line of questioning.

[00:45:19] Sorry, I've got to clear my throat here.

[00:45:21] I just want to provide some background to our listeners that you are a self-appointed former White Sox fan.

[00:45:28] Do I have the title correct?

[00:45:29] Yes, I am a current Colorado Rockies fan because I appreciate dysfunction.

[00:45:35] But I grew up a White Sox fan.

[00:45:39] So, my next question is going to be, when we look at teams that have...

[00:45:45] Sorry.

[00:45:46] I'm going to mark this out.

[00:45:48] TJ is so not looking forward to talking about the White Sox and the Rockies and whoever else.

[00:45:54] You know what?

[00:45:55] I've been a little under the weather this week.

[00:45:57] Are you guys Spongebob people?

[00:45:59] Absolutely.

[00:46:00] So, I think Plankton was trying to say, like, thank you or I love you.

[00:46:03] He was trying to say something and he just couldn't get it out.

[00:46:05] Or, like, they did this as well with Mr. Krabs when he was trying to say free and he just couldn't get it out.

[00:46:10] Like, and then he would just shrivel.

[00:46:13] That's you before asking this question trying to associate the Mariners and the White Sox.

[00:46:17] Okay.

[00:46:18] So, let me try this again.

[00:46:19] Yeah.

[00:46:20] So, basing it off of you being a former White Sox fan and for a number of reasons not being a White Sox fan that you can enumerate in this answer.

[00:46:28] But when we look at sort of franchise and ownership negligence on a team, I think the White Sox, especially this version of it, stands pretty head and shoulders above most teams that have existed in the course of Major League Baseball history.

[00:46:46] Can I have a coffee spell now, too?

[00:46:48] Is that an option?

[00:46:49] Like, can I start coughing, too?

[00:46:50] Let's go.

[00:46:51] And because of that, there are valid reasons why people are no longer fans of the team, hence yourself.

[00:46:59] Can you just talk from a personal standpoint of some of the ramifications of ownership, not properly investing in a product, not properly investing in their fan base, and not putting a good enough product out on the field year over year?

[00:47:14] Yeah.

[00:47:16] Yeah.

[00:47:16] So, I will say, me personally, and I know a lot of people that are not considering themselves White Sox fans anymore because of what has happened in regards to that organization.

[00:47:29] For me personally, I'm not going to say that it was apples to apples.

[00:47:33] Like, that is the clear-cut reason why I ditched that White Sox fandom.

[00:47:37] You guys know it.

[00:47:38] Working in sports, working in baseball, you tend to gravitate towards the people that you are around a lot and like being around.

[00:47:47] So, I think I just grew out of fandom in general, and it was going to happen whether it was a good organization or not because I'd much rather tune into a guy that I've gotten to know through calling games as opposed to watching the White Sox who were around for me when I was a kid.

[00:48:03] And they gave me some great times.

[00:48:04] Now, I will say that fandom leaving was probably expedited by shortcomings within that organization with what you're talking about.

[00:48:15] And it's a real thing.

[00:48:18] I know a lot of people that have decided to either move their fandom elsewhere or are falling out of baseball fandom entirely, which sucks as people that cover it.

[00:48:29] But you'd much rather have people like baseball as opposed to not like it anymore.

[00:48:36] But it's a real thing.

[00:48:39] And ownership, putting a bad organization in a spot for a bad organization to continue to be bad is a very rough place to be.

[00:48:50] And something that I continue to come back to is bad organizations are bad organizations for a reason.

[00:48:59] Decision making is not going to get better because you feel like you know the right decision.

[00:49:06] You may know the right decision.

[00:49:09] But at the end of the day, like, again, bad organizations are bad organizations for a reason.

[00:49:14] You cannot assume that bad organizations are going to make the right decision.

[00:49:18] So, like, Andrew Benintendi was objectively not that good when he hit the open market.

[00:49:23] And that organization decided to make him the highest paid player in franchise history.

[00:49:29] It's really weird when you step back and think about it.

[00:49:32] And, you know, the rational fan, the informed fan would probably say, why did you do that?

[00:49:40] But, again, like, bad organizations are bad organizations for a reason.

[00:49:44] You know, they have signed people with some serious character concerns.

[00:49:47] Like, I'm fully aware of that.

[00:49:49] They've signed people that are not good for clubhouses, hadn't been in their previous three stops, and still brought them in.

[00:49:57] Those are the things that actually, I think, expedite the process more so than ownership not doing anything.

[00:50:02] I think I'd much rather my ownership just, like, roll with the draft picks and the IFA guys and watch, like, pretty crappy baseball because this first-round pick didn't work out at the big league level.

[00:50:12] I'd much rather watch, you know, a team full of Andrew Vaughn's and Gavin Sheets's than, like, Andrew Benintendi.

[00:50:20] Oh, we owe this guy $18 million next year?

[00:50:23] He's got a negative two F war.

[00:50:25] Like, I'd much rather complacency than making wrong decision after wrong decision by trying to be kind of aggressive.

[00:50:34] And I feel like that is what probably separates an organization like the White Sox from an organization like the Mariners.

[00:50:42] Well, hopefully that provides some perspective for people because the state of the Mariners fan base is pretty fragile right now.

[00:50:48] And it has been for a while, but it continues to go down that hill with every season that results in missing the playoffs.

[00:50:56] And for Mariners fans that know, you know, some of the comments that have come out about ownership saying they don't want to spend this offseason.

[00:51:01] So hopefully that was if a glass half full thing exists for as tough as it's been, there's some really bad franchises and ownerships out there.

[00:51:10] And you kind of outlining the White Sox and how things have gone the last handful of seasons documents that.

[00:51:16] Yeah.

[00:51:17] And, like, that's what I want to make clear.

[00:51:19] Like, they found the right guy in Julio.

[00:51:22] And they gave him a contract that is going to make Julio a Seattle Mariner.

[00:51:26] Like, I don't know if that's going to backfire.

[00:51:29] Like, if it does and Julio deals with a bunch of injury or he struggles with inconsistency for the entirety of his career, okay, that sucks.

[00:51:34] But at least they tried and you got a guy that is objectively an awesome person for the city of Seattle to have.

[00:51:41] And that's a great superstar if he does blossom into that to, like, exist in Seattle.

[00:51:47] Everybody wants the Pat Mahomes-Bobby Witt thing.

[00:51:51] Like, that's what every organization wants.

[00:51:53] You want guys to coexist in the market.

[00:51:56] Milwaukee essentially has it with Giannis and with Christian Yelich.

[00:51:59] Like, you have that here.

[00:52:01] And, you know, Yelich, that contract is not going, quote-unquote, good because he's been dealing with injury.

[00:52:06] He just had that back surgery.

[00:52:07] He looked great.

[00:52:08] But then, you know, season-ending surgery again.

[00:52:11] Yelich is the right guy to have in Milwaukee because he's so good for this organization.

[00:52:15] He is a front-facing guy.

[00:52:18] He is the face of the Milwaukee Brewers.

[00:52:20] Is he the best player?

[00:52:21] Not anymore.

[00:52:22] This 20-year-old Churio is the best player for Milwaukee.

[00:52:25] Julio is the best player.

[00:52:27] Julio is also a good forward-facing representative of the city of Seattle.

[00:52:31] Bad organizations don't find that guy.

[00:52:33] Like, they pay somebody a lot of money that's like, that guy's their highest-paid player?

[00:52:38] Really?

[00:52:39] Like, he's hitting eighth.

[00:52:41] So, I would say that's a better spot than the cellar-dwelling organizations in Major League Baseball.

[00:52:48] I mean, I know the Tigers are in the playoffs now, but pre-August 2024, people might argue the face of that team,

[00:52:54] if you're going to just look at the offense, sans Tarek Skubal.

[00:52:57] Javi Baez?

[00:52:59] You don't want to run into that.

[00:53:00] Exactly.

[00:53:01] And, you know, you can build it around, like, grit in all of that.

[00:53:03] And they found guys, like, they hit on a first-round pick in Jace Young.

[00:53:07] And Jace Young was good for them down the stretch.

[00:53:09] And, you know, that Flaherty deal, you move him, you get Trey Sweeney back,

[00:53:12] all of a sudden that guy plugs in and he's good.

[00:53:14] But they have charismatic guys in that lineup.

[00:53:17] Like, you know, even people that you're not thinking of, man, like a Justin Henry Malloy,

[00:53:22] he's good in that community, man.

[00:53:23] He's good for the city of Detroit.

[00:53:25] There are fan favorites there.

[00:53:27] There's no fan favorite that's currently wearing a White Sox uniform, unfortunately.

[00:53:31] Like, Luis Robert, because he's really good, but it's not like he's there doing community work.

[00:53:35] Tim Anderson was that guy.

[00:53:36] Tim Anderson was awesome to have in Chicago.

[00:53:39] I didn't love that they didn't pick up his club option because it was so cheap.

[00:53:44] I get that his performance was terrible and, like, hey, hindsight's 20-20.

[00:53:47] Obviously, you don't pick up the club option.

[00:53:50] He's a great representative of the Chicago White Sox organization in your market.

[00:53:55] And now they just don't have that.

[00:53:57] Does Luis Robert have – where's his trade value at now after this season?

[00:54:03] I think it's more than you would expect this offseason because you can go blank slate with him, essentially,

[00:54:10] and you can pitch the ability thing again.

[00:54:14] Look what he did in 23.

[00:54:15] Yeah, he just wasn't healthy in 24.

[00:54:18] The deadline was very tough because you had, what, at that point, 60 games, 50 games of, you know,

[00:54:26] a clip under 200 in terms of a sample to work with.

[00:54:30] And it's like, why would we trade for that guy?

[00:54:31] He's been bad this year.

[00:54:33] I think the offseason, it's far easier to position Luis Robert in the lens of,

[00:54:39] look what he's done over the course of his career when he's on the field,

[00:54:42] as opposed to, ah, I don't love what he did in 2024.

[00:54:46] That feels like a deadline conversation.

[00:54:49] I think that's fair.

[00:54:51] I'll be interested to see what happens with him this offseason, that's for sure.

[00:54:54] He'd be a good mariner.

[00:54:56] Yeah, he'd be a good mariner.

[00:54:57] Their outfield's a little crowded, though, all of a sudden.

[00:54:59] And of all the things that the Mariners need to fix offensively,

[00:55:03] I think they all of a sudden feel like their outfield's actually in a decent place.

[00:55:06] Julio, Randy, Robles, Rayleigh.

[00:55:08] I think they actually feel secure enough in that regard.

[00:55:11] So let me ask you, aside from third base, where are you guys looking?

[00:55:16] Basically the entire infield stands catcher.

[00:55:19] I don't think J.P. Crawford's going anywhere because he's still got a couple years left on that extension.

[00:55:22] He's got, what, three years left on that deal?

[00:55:24] I think three.

[00:55:25] Yeah, two or three.

[00:55:27] Okay.

[00:55:27] I want to say.

[00:55:28] He signed a five-year deal starting in 22.

[00:55:31] So, but he had...

[00:55:33] Yeah, it'd be through the 26th season.

[00:55:35] Yeah.

[00:55:35] So he's got either two or three.

[00:55:37] Okay.

[00:55:37] Yeah.

[00:55:38] He's got either two or three left on the deal.

[00:55:40] So I would say third, second, first.

[00:55:42] Okay.

[00:55:43] Yeah.

[00:55:43] But unfortunately for J.P., again, he's coming off the worst season offensively of his career.

[00:55:48] So sure, he's got the contract, but they're going to need production out of that spot too.

[00:55:54] But adding one more R to the outfield for a lot of people would be a huge plus.

[00:55:59] We certainly talked about it.

[00:56:01] It'd be nice if he didn't strike out so much.

[00:56:03] It was like, oh, the Mariners are about to set the record for most strikeouts of all time.

[00:56:09] Let's add 38% to the lineup.

[00:56:12] Yes.

[00:56:13] Why not?

[00:56:14] Well, and a guy that doesn't walk as well.

[00:56:16] And that's where the frustration lies.

[00:56:17] And apparently walks are sexy.

[00:56:20] Like, I didn't get the memo initially, and I don't know if I fully jive with that.

[00:56:25] But, I mean, people love a 10% walk rate now.

[00:56:28] I don't love a 4% walk rate, but I think an 8% walk rate, 9% walk rate's okay.

[00:56:33] But, like, you know, at the end of the day, that is what hedges cold spells.

[00:56:38] And when Lubov is not going right, it's a very hard watch because he's not walking.

[00:56:44] And it's, oh, he's hitless in his last 14 at-bats, and he's reached base twice in that stretch.

[00:56:49] Like, some of those guys reach base five times in that stretch.

[00:56:52] And that's a heck of a lot more palatable.

[00:56:55] Right.

[00:56:55] And the one thing the Mariners actually do well strategically, offensively, is walk.

[00:56:59] They actually get on base a little bit.

[00:57:01] The problem is they don't put the bat on the ball enough.

[00:57:02] Right.

[00:57:03] And if you get to first base, you should probably get guys that can take second base because then one hit out of the next three will get you in.

[00:57:12] And I feel like they kind of lack in that department as well.

[00:57:15] Right.

[00:57:16] If I was going to ask you one more question, Jack, before we wrap this thing up, more on a just baseball front here.

[00:57:21] Yeah.

[00:57:22] This thing's been awesome.

[00:57:23] Obviously, it's growing.

[00:57:24] There's a bunch of podcasts under the umbrella now, us included, which we've loved.

[00:57:28] But where's this all going long term, do you think?

[00:57:31] I know it's kind of a loaded question, but have you guys stopped to think about that at all?

[00:57:35] Have you stopped to think about what a perfect long-term outlook looks like?

[00:57:39] Well, the answer, the youthful answer is to the moon, right?

[00:57:42] Isn't that where it's going?

[00:57:44] No, we love having you guys as part of the network.

[00:57:47] And I think in terms of the five-year plan and things like that, we really look at continued growth where we are helping everybody under the umbrella get to a place where they are the go-to spot in every market.

[00:58:04] So what just baseball really prides itself on is actually having a finger on the pulse of a fan base.

[00:58:12] And we try to do that at a national level.

[00:58:15] It's really hard.

[00:58:16] I think it's impossible to do it from a national level.

[00:58:18] But understanding where certain markets' frustrations lie with their baseball team is really important.

[00:58:26] And understanding who the fan favorites are and knowing that, hey, the gritty tigues are a thing in early September as opposed to finding that out on October 9th is a good thing.

[00:58:36] And that's something that we really prioritize.

[00:58:38] But I think finding people that are a voice for that fan base is really important.

[00:58:46] And you guys do such an amazing job of that in Seattle.

[00:58:50] So I'd say in terms of just baseball, the goal is people in the Seattle market see you guys and say, oh, we know we're getting the right coverage on the Seattle Mariners here.

[00:59:02] Because these are guys that get it.

[00:59:03] And they work with a company that gets it.

[00:59:06] And we're there.

[00:59:07] So we initially positioned as a one-stop shop for baseball coverage and kind of the place to go for baseball coverage.

[00:59:17] And the younger generation really likes baseball.

[00:59:20] I think a lot of people don't understand that.

[00:59:23] And I think just continue to circle the younger market in terms of baseball fandom.

[00:59:30] So when you initially decided to start doing this, like you were mentioning, in March of 21 before we started recording.

[00:59:37] Because you're a big play-by-play guy.

[00:59:39] We all called games before.

[00:59:41] Like, Lyle and I did a lot of it in college, just like you at Syracuse.

[00:59:44] Lyle and I since have taken the foot off the gas pedal.

[00:59:48] But you've kept on chugging along.

[00:59:49] But you've helped grow Just Baseball just as your play-by-play career as well.

[00:59:55] What sort of led you to pick up this avenue as well?

[01:00:03] Probably same thing that led you guys to pick this up.

[01:00:05] Like, it's something that I just really freaking enjoy.

[01:00:10] And I love calling games.

[01:00:13] But I heard Len Casper, who is now the radio voice of the White Sox and was the TV voice of the Cubs for a long time, say once,

[01:00:20] if you needed to give up one, calling games or baseball, which one would you give up?

[01:00:25] And he said calling games.

[01:00:26] And that resonated with me.

[01:00:27] Because I think there are a lot of play-by-play announcers that would give up a sport in favor of calling games.

[01:00:33] Like, oh, I would go call basketball instead.

[01:00:34] And I love calling basketball.

[01:00:35] It's great.

[01:00:36] I like calling football.

[01:00:37] It's great.

[01:00:38] But there's something about baseball and there's something about growing up with it that I was just like, man, I really like this.

[01:00:45] So it started as a passion side hustle.

[01:00:50] And again, it started as half an hour twice a week.

[01:00:53] And I was like, yeah, I do that in my free time anyway.

[01:00:55] So let's just do it into a hot mic.

[01:00:57] Like, but it's transformed into something where I feel like I can talk about baseball in the way that I want to talk about it.

[01:01:04] I was that 14-year-old that was like trying to figure out which guys had a player option after this year.

[01:01:10] And I was weird in high school.

[01:01:13] Like, as I'm sure so many other people that are baseball dorks were when, you know, they're sitting here watching.

[01:01:19] It's like, you know, this guy is making $16 million this year.

[01:01:21] Like, he's the second highest paid player on the team.

[01:01:23] And, you know, like he's going to hit free agency.

[01:01:25] I feel like this would be a good spot for him.

[01:01:27] I was just fascinated by the minutiae at a really young age.

[01:01:31] And I feel like when calling a game, you're not really allowed to get into the minutiae in a way that I think a lot of baseball fans would want that.

[01:01:40] So it was really just another avenue to talk about more things that interest me within baseball.

[01:01:48] And just kind of ran with it.

[01:01:50] So probably the same reason why you guys did, right?

[01:01:53] I would love to kind of throw that back at you.

[01:01:55] Why did you guys start doing this?

[01:01:57] Well, more freedom, really.

[01:02:00] You know, Lyle and I would have most of these conversations during Mariner games anyway.

[01:02:04] We thought it was, at first, just a good way to just get our thoughts out into a mic.

[01:02:10] And I think, you know, the more I think about it and the more we do this, I think the pandemic really put things in perspective when there was no baseball.

[01:02:18] Like, as we sit here during the offseason for us, for Mariner fans, we can sit here and talk Mariners baseball, even despite there being no games happening.

[01:02:25] Because, well, we control this platform.

[01:02:28] Like, in the play-by-play sense, if there's not a game going on, you're not working.

[01:02:32] Exactly.

[01:02:32] And you have nothing to do.

[01:02:34] But when you have a platform like this, you control the message.

[01:02:37] You control what kind of content you want to do.

[01:02:40] It's your creativity.

[01:02:41] And, hey, if you get enough people to listen and you can start making some money, it's really fantastic.

[01:02:45] And I think when – and, of course, our thing has grown to something so much more than just a podcast.

[01:02:52] But it all comes down to the point of, you know, being able to be in charge of something, which is really nice as opposed to a lot of the working role where you're not in control at all.

[01:03:02] Exactly.

[01:03:03] Yeah.

[01:03:03] I think being able to say you created something on your own was pretty cool.

[01:03:06] We talked about starting a podcast forever.

[01:03:08] We just – we never wanted to be those people that said we were going to start something, you do two episodes, and then it goes by the wayside.

[01:03:14] We always said if we were going to start it, we want to be serious about it.

[01:03:18] Fair.

[01:03:18] Okay.

[01:03:18] So that was also me like three, four times during the pandemic.

[01:03:21] It was like we should do a podcast, and then we do it twice, and then we run into the schedule issues, and then it just kind of fizzles out.

[01:03:26] But I'm with you.

[01:03:28] Like sticking with it to this level is exactly how good podcasts are born.

[01:03:34] Like you just – you dive into it.

[01:03:36] You're incessant about it, and then you find the right audience, and you go.

[01:03:41] Yeah.

[01:03:41] Yeah.

[01:03:41] And I was exactly like you in high school, by the way.

[01:03:43] In the sense of knowing player options and knowing exact details on contracts.

[01:03:47] I'd have friends who are general baseball fans and like casual baseball fans or even slightly above average baseball fans,

[01:03:53] and if they'd ask one of their other friends a question, they'd usually be like, I don't know, go ask Lyle.

[01:03:58] They'll probably tell you.

[01:03:59] That's usually how it would go.

[01:04:00] Exactly.

[01:04:01] That's the thing in like pitch tunneling got big when we were in high school too,

[01:04:05] and I was the kid that was throwing like 73, 74 that was like pitch tunneling.

[01:04:09] I was like, let me really focus on tunneling.

[01:04:11] Let me make sure that in terms of repeatability on video, it was going to look the exact same.

[01:04:15] And like, dude, there are terms for what I was now.

[01:04:18] Like there are phrases for what you would say to a kid like me in high school.

[01:04:24] Like touch grass.

[01:04:26] That's a big one.

[01:04:27] Just things like that that are pretty disparaging.

[01:04:29] I feel like I would hear a lot if I went to high school right now, but at the end of the day, like it built towards this.

[01:04:35] And it's funny, I'm sure you guys have experienced the inflection point where your hobbies went from nerdy to cool.

[01:04:46] Like that's what working in sports is, which is funny because there's a lot behind the curtain that a lot of people don't know.

[01:04:54] But that inflection point, like I was on the L in Chicago and it was, yeah, I was then going into my senior year of college.

[01:05:03] And somebody was like, man, I'm so jealous about what you do.

[01:05:05] I was like, really?

[01:05:06] Like you thought I was kind of weird in high school.

[01:05:08] Let's be honest here.

[01:05:09] So yeah, pretty funny.

[01:05:12] And it's in a full circle to allow when we meet like high school or younger kids at the ballpark who look at us are like, wow, that's awesome.

[01:05:20] It's like if they were to go try and do the same thing at school, like, you know, just you really never know.

[01:05:27] But this is our message to everybody.

[01:05:30] Doesn't matter what other people think, because you know what?

[01:05:32] Go check our comments section.

[01:05:34] There are a lot of people who still to this day don't like what we do.

[01:05:39] So they'll let us know instead of telling us to our face, they'll put it in the comment section as well.

[01:05:43] It doesn't go away.

[01:05:44] We just feel like we tolerate it better and be more accepting of ourselves.

[01:05:50] For sure.

[01:05:50] So I've been called an idiot often, which I can appreciate.

[01:05:54] I just prefer creativity when you come at me.

[01:05:57] My favorite in terms of, you know, like people that didn't listen to what I was saying was this guy looks like a young Papa John, which I thought was the best.

[01:06:09] I was like, that's really good.

[01:06:11] I appreciate that.

[01:06:12] But in terms of substance, my favorite comment that I've seen is this guy manages to say so many words without saying anything at all.

[01:06:21] It's like, yeah, I love that.

[01:06:23] That's good.

[01:06:23] Keep it coming.

[01:06:24] Be creative with it.

[01:06:26] Well, that at least means they're listening.

[01:06:27] It's not just this is stupid.

[01:06:28] Exactly.

[01:06:29] It's like you listen to every word I had to say and you're like, yeah, this guy gave me nothing.

[01:06:34] I'm like, oh, OK, cool.

[01:06:35] Thanks for listening.

[01:06:37] Appreciate that.

[01:06:39] To quickly file, like contextualize what you said, Jack, really well.

[01:06:42] I think what Len Casper said and now the way you feel is exactly right.

[01:06:46] If I'm sitting here thinking about what I give up play by play or baseball.

[01:06:49] Yeah, it'd be play by play.

[01:06:51] I can't give up baseball.

[01:06:52] No way.

[01:06:53] Yeah.

[01:06:53] There's something so comforting.

[01:06:55] And listen, ownership doubts aside and Julio Rodriguez consistency aside, you know, all the things that we hyper fixate on over the course of a baseball season, because that's what we're supposed to do as people that talk about baseball.

[01:07:11] All of those things aside, baseball is the best thing in the world because for six months out of the year, it's with you every single day.

[01:07:21] And even when your team has an off day, you can go watch somebody else.

[01:07:25] You can go watch a division rival.

[01:07:26] You can go do something else.

[01:07:28] Football, like what are you supposed to do on Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday if you're an NFL fan?

[01:07:33] Like the NBA, there are universal days off.

[01:07:36] Like it's not great.

[01:07:37] And the regular season, those guys don't really care to the level that baseball does.

[01:07:43] Baseball, you see excellence every single night.

[01:07:45] Like part of the appeal of a Shohei Otani is that, yeah, not only is he doing crazy things, but he's on the field all the time.

[01:07:53] The best players play every day for six months.

[01:07:57] That's my favorite thing.

[01:07:58] And you start in spring training.

[01:08:00] That's like the mark of the beginning of spring, right?

[01:08:02] Pitchers and catchers report.

[01:08:03] You can turn on a game on a Tuesday at 11 a.m.

[01:08:06] You know, Pacific and chances are you can see the Seattle Mariners play.

[01:08:10] Like that is awesome.

[01:08:12] And you can do that in March and in February or in October.

[01:08:18] You can watch other teams play really meaningful games.

[01:08:20] Like there is just something on the baseball calendar every single day.

[01:08:24] And that repetition is so comforting for me.

[01:08:28] That was really well said.

[01:08:30] That was a fantastic way to end this.

[01:08:33] I thought I said nothing.

[01:08:37] You can hear Jack every single week on the Just Baseball Show and on the call up.

[01:08:42] And he's been a really good friend to us and really good working with us as part of the Just Baseball Network.

[01:08:46] Jack, thanks so much for taking some time to join us here today.

[01:08:48] You guys are awesome.

[01:08:50] Go M's.

[01:08:53] Really, really enjoyed the conversation with Jack.

[01:08:55] Hopefully you guys did too.

[01:08:56] If you guys have not had enough of an endorsement already, here's one more final one.

[01:09:01] Go check out the Just Baseball Show.

[01:09:02] It really is awesome.

[01:09:04] They've had Stephen Kwon on.

[01:09:06] They've had Tanner Bybee on.

[01:09:08] They used to have Walker Bueller on every week when he was rehabbing last year.

[01:09:11] And they just do an awesome job.

[01:09:13] So conversation was a blast.

[01:09:16] Listening to the Just Baseball Show was a blast.

[01:09:17] Hopefully you guys enjoy and follow through with all of that.

[01:09:21] So with that, that'll just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Layer Podcast.

[01:09:25] You guys know the drill.

[01:09:26] If you want to listen to the Full Form Podcast, you can do so wherever you get your audio pods.

[01:09:30] Make sure to download, rate, and review five stars.

[01:09:32] It all helps us out.

[01:09:34] If you're watching on YouTube, like, comment, and hit that subscribe button.

[01:09:37] And then follow us on social media across Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, and YouTube shorts at MarineLayerPod.

[01:09:44] That's TJ.

[01:09:45] I'm Lyle.

[01:09:45] As always, we thank you guys for tuning in.

[01:09:47] We'll talk to you soon.

[01:09:48] Bye.

[01:09:49] Bye.