Episode 182: Reacting To Dave Sims Leaving For The Yankees + Mariners Offseason Wish List 2.0 - Trades

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[00:00:55] Welcome to episode number 182 of the Marine Layer Podcast or react to the news that Dave Sims is leaving the Mariners to go be the radio voice of the New York Yankees.

[00:01:05] It's our second edition of our offseason wish list. This edition is trade candidates. Lyle and I have each picked out three and we'll go through them.

[00:01:14] Here's your guys reminder. Before we start the show, please, please do us a big favor. If you're listening on the audio side of these podcasts, you can support us by downloading these episodes, rate and review five stars.

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[00:01:48] Let's get it rolling.

[00:02:02] And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network recording on Thursday evening, November 14th.

[00:02:11] I really think there is only one proper way to start this episode. Hey, now. Hey, now. Hey, now. How did I do?

[00:02:22] Wasn't very enthusiastic.

[00:02:24] Well, I don't want to blow your eardrums out.

[00:02:29] The sentiment's nice. How about this? Hey, now. Hey, now. Hey, now. Is that better?

[00:02:34] That's better. That's better. That's better. Keeps the volume low, but but adds the energy because as of today, Dave Sims confirmed it right before we started recording here on Thursday that he's now going to be the radio voice of the New York Yankees.

[00:02:49] He's going to take over for John Sterling.

[00:02:51] That's an amazing accomplishment. It was fantastic to see all of the all the people in the Mariners community come out today and voice their support for him and people taking up some of his best calls like all of that, I think, is really fantastic.

[00:03:07] We're going to miss him next year.

[00:03:09] Yeah, this is pretty bittersweet news.

[00:03:12] It's bitter because Dave Sims isn't going to be in Seattle anymore.

[00:03:15] It's crazy to think about when he said 18 years he's been here, which we know is a long time when you hear that number.

[00:03:21] But when you contextualize it like this for us, for the two of us, we were seven or eight years old the last time Mariners baseball didn't have Dave Sims around, didn't have Dave Sims involved.

[00:03:32] It's a long time.

[00:03:34] Most of our lives have involved Dave Sims being a voice of Mariners baseball.

[00:03:39] He's been one of the voices of our childhood.

[00:03:42] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:43] And does it feel like it's you?

[00:03:46] Because now that it's ending, definitely feels like it to me.

[00:03:50] Yeah.

[00:03:51] We didn't really get to grow up with a lot of Dave Niehaus.

[00:03:53] We were really, really young when he was still around.

[00:03:57] Our voices growing up were Rick Riz and Dave Sims.

[00:04:02] Now, Goldie's been here a decade.

[00:04:04] Not like we haven't grown up with Goldie at this point.

[00:04:06] But Sims and Riz have been here a little longer, and we were a little younger when we started constantly listening and watching Mariners baseball.

[00:04:14] So it was Riz and it was Sims.

[00:04:16] Now, the sweet part of this is we know this is a dream job for Dave, and it's an unreal opportunity.

[00:04:24] You're the voice of baseball's most iconic team, of one of the most iconic sports radio stations in the whole country.

[00:04:32] It's pretty cool.

[00:04:33] And, oh, by the way, most of you may know this, but in case you don't, Dave Sims lives in New York in the offseason.

[00:04:39] When he's there in the offseason, he calls a lot of college basketball.

[00:04:42] He's pretty involved with broadcasting on the East Coast in New York when Mariners baseball isn't going on.

[00:04:48] So he would go back and forth for a long time between Seattle and Arizona for spring training and then New York in the offseason.

[00:04:55] Now he gets to be in one place and work a job that I'm sure he's dreamed of having.

[00:04:59] So while we're going to miss him, I don't want to be too selfish in that way.

[00:05:04] And in, you know, being mad because he's going to live out his dream.

[00:05:09] I could not be happier for him in that regard.

[00:05:13] And it's another note that sometimes your dream job doesn't come open until you're 71, like it is for Dave Sims.

[00:05:19] In a lot of other professions, it's by the time you get to 71 years old, you're ready to retire.

[00:05:25] But Dave's probably got to feel like just a breath of fresh air into everything, getting this opportunity.

[00:05:31] It really has to be amazing how the timing works out of the job you so let you covet.

[00:05:38] And then a lot of people covet comes open just in time for you to get.

[00:05:43] I don't know.

[00:05:43] Dave Sims could be there 10 years, let's say.

[00:05:46] That's some of the best end in their 80s.

[00:05:49] John Sterling, who left that job, was 86.

[00:05:51] So it's not out of the question that Dave could get a decade in the Yankees booth.

[00:05:56] And hey, for a sake, maybe they win a World Series.

[00:05:59] That would be utterly amazing, getting to call games at Yankees Stadium.

[00:06:03] And if you remember when we interviewed Dave back in the spring, he'd talk about his time coming up on the East Coast before he came out West.

[00:06:11] He hosted on WFAN in the early 90s.

[00:06:14] All of this stuff is really coming full circle for him.

[00:06:17] And you have to wait until you're 71 sometimes.

[00:06:20] So that's stuff to happen, Lyle.

[00:06:22] Maybe for you or I, that dream thing won't happen to us until we're in our 70s.

[00:06:28] It's entirely possible.

[00:06:29] But I'm glad it happened for Dave Sims.

[00:06:33] Yeah, it's amazing.

[00:06:34] Now, let me say this.

[00:06:37] If I hear Dave Sims calling Yankees games on WFAN singing, it's Glaber Day, we may have to chirp him on Twitter.

[00:06:46] For those who don't know, the guy he is replacing in John Sterling, he is regarded, I guess, as a New York icon.

[00:06:56] I mean, he is regarded as a New York icon.

[00:06:58] But good Lord.

[00:07:00] Like, I don't know how people listen to him call baseball games for I don't know how long at this point.

[00:07:06] It's a tough listen.

[00:07:10] Well, it stinks for John because he struggles to see a little bit.

[00:07:16] Yeah.

[00:07:16] So, and I also didn't really like the way he quote unquote ended his year.

[00:07:22] Like, he started this year, Lyle.

[00:07:23] Do you remember?

[00:07:24] He started the year, retired, what, after a couple of weeks?

[00:07:28] But then came back for the playoffs.

[00:07:31] So, it's like, yeah, it's kind of weird.

[00:07:33] It's kind of unorthodox that he just kind of up and left and then came back.

[00:07:38] But it allowed this opportunity for Dave Sims.

[00:07:41] Lyle, could you give me your top three Dave Sims calls?

[00:07:46] Can I do a Mount Rushmore instead?

[00:07:48] I think I've got four.

[00:07:49] Okay.

[00:07:50] And I'll do them in chronological order of dates.

[00:07:53] Because I don't know if I can put any specific order on it.

[00:07:56] Other than my all-time favorite is probably Cal's clincher.

[00:08:00] Just because the moment that it all encapsulates and the weight that it took off the back of every player, coach, fan, and person in that organization.

[00:08:11] So, I think that's number one, obviously.

[00:08:13] The drought breaker.

[00:08:15] Other than that on the Mount Rushmore, I will go with Mitch Hanegar's single in 2021, game 161.

[00:08:22] Felix's final out of the perfect game on the strikeout.

[00:08:25] And then a little bit of an underrated one, but I saw our friend Ben Ranieri tweeted out today and I couldn't agree with him more.

[00:08:31] That Nelson Cruz homer in 2016 of game 161 where Sims just went nuts for it.

[00:08:38] And it tied a game where the Mariners had to win to stay alive.

[00:08:41] It was the seventh inning.

[00:08:43] Nelly hits a two-run bomb.

[00:08:44] And Sims just went all out for it.

[00:08:47] And it was awesome.

[00:08:48] So, I think those four are the ones on my Mount Rushmore.

[00:08:52] I had the same list.

[00:08:54] I just generalized the fourth one, like the Nelson Cruz homerun.

[00:08:58] Any call where he said boomstick baby was a classic one.

[00:09:04] But I had the same top three as you.

[00:09:06] Cal's clincher has to be number one.

[00:09:07] One of the more iconic moments in franchise history.

[00:09:10] The perfect game I had at two.

[00:09:13] And Mitch's game 161 single was great.

[00:09:15] Now, I wish more of these happened in the playoffs.

[00:09:19] But unfortunately not.

[00:09:20] Oh, one more honorable mention.

[00:09:22] The Randy Orozarena at bat he had this year where Randy stepped out three times and then nearly hit a home run into the upper deck.

[00:09:29] Yeah.

[00:09:30] That was pretty cool.

[00:09:32] And Sims was losing it in the radio booth.

[00:09:36] And like, let's see what he's got here.

[00:09:38] Oh!

[00:09:39] It's gone!

[00:09:41] He always had so much energy on those big calls.

[00:09:43] It's pretty amazing.

[00:09:45] There's going to be times where I think we really miss Dave moving forward.

[00:09:49] And that is not to say that we're not excited for Goldie to be the full-time TV voice.

[00:09:54] Because I will fight just about anybody that Goldie may be the best broadcaster in all of baseball.

[00:10:00] I know Joe Davis is up there.

[00:10:01] I know Gary Cohn's up there.

[00:10:02] I know there's a bunch of guys up there.

[00:10:04] I think Aaron Goldsmith is right there with all of them.

[00:10:07] So to have him be the full-time TV voice is going to be really cool.

[00:10:11] But to just hear Sims throughout some of the year and have him not be there, it's going to be different.

[00:10:17] Again, what I'm about to say is all out of love for Dave Sims because he has, again, been one of the voices of our childhoods.

[00:10:23] And he is a phenomenal broadcaster.

[00:10:24] But every now and then he has his moment where people might kind of laugh a little bit watching the game.

[00:10:31] Like when he, there's a fly ball that maybe he thinks has hit a little better than it is.

[00:10:36] And he starts to call it like it might be a home run.

[00:10:38] And then it's not all that close.

[00:10:41] But again, nobody's perfect.

[00:10:42] Like it was things like that that made me love him even more.

[00:10:45] Like nobody's perfect.

[00:10:46] No broadcaster's perfect.

[00:10:49] And you just kind of got to see the human side of him even that much more when broadcasting those games and seeing those moments.

[00:10:57] Because being a broadcaster, the two of us can vouch for it as people who thought that was exactly what they wanted to do in college, pursued it after college for a while.

[00:11:04] It is really hard.

[00:11:06] And moments like that happen.

[00:11:07] And it was almost kind of refreshing in a way.

[00:11:09] Not that you want your broadcasters to have mistakes.

[00:11:12] But it's refreshing in a way to show that even at the highest levels, nobody's a perfect broadcaster.

[00:11:19] So things like that made Dave Sims very human.

[00:11:23] And when you screw up, everybody hears it.

[00:11:25] The tens of thousands of people watching will notice it.

[00:11:30] Unlike in any other job, when you screw up, you hope like one or two people notice.

[00:11:34] Well, Dave, you're right.

[00:11:36] That's just who he was as a broadcaster.

[00:11:38] That was just part of his fabric.

[00:11:40] That's what makes most broadcasters great.

[00:11:43] They just need to be themselves.

[00:11:45] Like Rick Riz is very much himself.

[00:11:49] Like he has a certain tone.

[00:11:50] He uses a lot of the same phrases over and over and over again.

[00:11:54] It makes him himself.

[00:11:56] Sims is the same way.

[00:11:57] I think Goldie is the same way.

[00:11:58] I think Gary is the same way as well.

[00:12:01] Now, I don't know how the rest of the booth is going to shake out.

[00:12:04] We're going to wait to see confirmation before I'd say we speculate too much.

[00:12:08] It does feel like Gary would get the other radio spot.

[00:12:13] I would think because he's incredibly talented and very, very good at baseball play by play.

[00:12:19] So I think he should get that spot next to Riz.

[00:12:22] And then, as you mentioned, Goldie's already splitting the TV reps.

[00:12:26] He's already amazing on TV.

[00:12:28] It should be him in that television booth the full time.

[00:12:30] But we'll see.

[00:12:32] Right.

[00:12:32] And I think it will be Gary.

[00:12:34] Not only is Gary incredibly talented, but he already calls so many games throughout the year anyway.

[00:12:37] When somebody's away or they give him a few innings, etc., etc.

[00:12:41] He's on every pregame, postgame show.

[00:12:42] It's a seamless fit.

[00:12:45] People know Gary's voice.

[00:12:46] People are used to listening to Gary.

[00:12:47] I'd be shocked if it's not Gary and Rick sharing that booth.

[00:12:51] And then they'd probably just hire a new engineer.

[00:12:54] The pregame, postgame shows on the radio wouldn't be all that different.

[00:12:58] Gary's still going to be on them.

[00:12:59] Rick's going to be on them.

[00:13:00] Shannon will be on them.

[00:13:01] Nothing changes that much.

[00:13:02] The only difference, I think, is Goldie would be on TV.

[00:13:05] So this wouldn't only be a dream opportunity for Dave Sims.

[00:13:08] It would be for Gary Hill as well.

[00:13:10] Oh, yeah.

[00:13:11] That would be his dream.

[00:13:12] Like, he's gotten most of the way there.

[00:13:14] But to be one of the two play-by-play voices of the team, like, officially, would be pretty cool.

[00:13:20] Yeah.

[00:13:20] Now, let's speculate on this for just a second to have some fun with it.

[00:13:23] Because Rick Riz does not call every single game throughout the year anymore.

[00:13:28] Broadcasters get a little bit of time off throughout the year.

[00:13:30] They're not calling every game.

[00:13:32] I wonder who some of the immediate backups are now going to be.

[00:13:37] And some of the new voices we might hear as a result of this.

[00:13:40] Because, look, Goldie's amazing.

[00:13:42] But he might want a couple days off throughout the season.

[00:13:45] And if that happens, now who calls the game on TV?

[00:13:48] It's been a long time since Rick Riz has done a game on TV.

[00:13:51] I don't think Gary's done much TV broadcasting, period.

[00:13:54] So, like, that would be interesting.

[00:13:56] Or if somebody on the radio side isn't calling a game, who would fill in?

[00:14:02] I think one easy answer is Rich Waltz.

[00:14:05] He lives in the Seattle area and was the voice of the Marlins forever.

[00:14:10] And does a lot of national stuff.

[00:14:11] I think that's an easy one, right?

[00:14:13] And remember when the whole booth got COVID?

[00:14:16] I think it was in 21.

[00:14:17] Rich was calling games.

[00:14:19] Yeah, and he had to fill in.

[00:14:20] And I remember I was tuning into the pregame show.

[00:14:22] And I hear him bring it in.

[00:14:23] Out of the start of play-by-play, I'm sitting here thinking, like,

[00:14:27] What's going on?

[00:14:28] Yeah.

[00:14:30] Like, I don't recognize that voice.

[00:14:31] I got it for a second.

[00:14:32] I was like, oh, that makes sense.

[00:14:34] He feels like a pretty easy decision, right?

[00:14:37] Because he lives in the area.

[00:14:39] Pretty seamless.

[00:14:40] Mike Curto is down in Tacoma.

[00:14:42] I would imagine, like, since he's close and he's been the AAA voice for a while now,

[00:14:46] that would be an option.

[00:14:48] A fun option for the Mariners would be to stick a mic in front of the Marine Layer podcast

[00:14:52] and let us, like, half podcast, half goal game.

[00:14:55] I think that would be pretty cool.

[00:14:56] I think we'd be funny.

[00:14:57] I think we would, uh...

[00:14:59] How else would you describe it?

[00:15:00] Let's just put our pitch out there right now.

[00:15:03] We've now filled in for Brock and Salk.

[00:15:05] People know us around the ballpark.

[00:15:07] People in the organization know us.

[00:15:09] You want people to tune into a broadcast?

[00:15:11] Let us do a broadcast.

[00:15:12] Or at least some of it.

[00:15:14] Let us get on those airwaves.

[00:15:16] We'd be electric, dude.

[00:15:19] Rick could do...

[00:15:21] Here's how it'll work.

[00:15:22] Rick could do innings one to four.

[00:15:23] We'll do the fifth.

[00:15:24] And then he'll do the final four innings.

[00:15:27] That would work out, right?

[00:15:29] Yes.

[00:15:29] Like, let us...

[00:15:30] This is what we're going to do.

[00:15:32] We're essentially doing a pilot episode.

[00:15:34] We're going to do a pilot inning.

[00:15:36] And if they decide to fire us after, listen.

[00:15:40] They can do what they want.

[00:15:41] It's their decision.

[00:15:42] But I think the pilot episode is deserved.

[00:15:45] We'd be Seattle's pardon my take doing Barstool Van Talk.

[00:15:48] One appearance, and then we're done.

[00:15:51] It's over.

[00:15:53] But that's the pitch to all the higher-ups at the Mariners organization.

[00:15:57] You hear this?

[00:15:58] You hear this dynamic right here?

[00:15:59] Just imagine putting it in a radio booth for an inning.

[00:16:02] Yeah, people might turn it off, but they actually might really like it.

[00:16:05] A lot of people might really like it.

[00:16:07] Or if Root needs more guests than now with...

[00:16:10] I mean, they probably won't because it's only one TV play-by-play voice, regardless of if Dave Sims is here or not.

[00:16:15] But Jared Karabas, friend of the pod, is on Nessun a lot throughout the year.

[00:16:20] They let him have his time in the booth and let him talk ball and let him analyze the game in his own eyes a little bit.

[00:16:25] Well, Root Sports want to let us get in there?

[00:16:28] Get on the TV broadcast and start being interviewed mid-game or give our thoughts?

[00:16:32] Hey, as I joked to you earlier...

[00:16:35] Well, I don't know if our dynamic would exactly line up with Root Sports, considering if we walked in there in May, the Mariners are 10-17.

[00:16:44] Their highlight signing of the offseason was Yohan Moncada.

[00:16:46] We might sit down in that booth.

[00:16:48] First question is, how's it going?

[00:16:49] And we just go full Frank the Tank.

[00:16:51] This season's over!

[00:16:54] I'm thinking of a scenario here in the booth, right?

[00:16:56] We're in the booth en route.

[00:16:59] It's the seventh inning and the wave has started.

[00:17:02] Oh!

[00:17:04] It's like, Goldie goes, and the 2-2 misses outside.

[00:17:07] And we're like, this one's going over the fence, Goldie.

[00:17:11] Why is that?

[00:17:12] Well, see what's going on down there?

[00:17:16] Yeah, something bad is due to happen.

[00:17:20] Yes, and you know why that is?

[00:17:22] We'd say on the Mariners' own TV network.

[00:17:26] Because the wave is the worst thing to happen in the game of sports ever.

[00:17:32] Yes.

[00:17:33] It looks like all the people down there are having fun.

[00:17:36] I'm not having fun watching it.

[00:17:38] Watch the game.

[00:17:39] Yes.

[00:17:40] Now, some people might like the wave.

[00:17:42] And to get another opinion on this, a third party, we bring in Ryan Divish.

[00:17:52] Now, imagine that inning.

[00:17:59] Now, I actually really want this to happen.

[00:18:02] Yes.

[00:18:03] I mean, Divish now already has a platform to rip me apart on the Mariners' flagship radio station.

[00:18:08] Imagine what he could do on the TV network ripping me apart.

[00:18:12] They won't have to worry about sacking ratings if it's Goldie, the Marine Layer podcast, and Ryan Divish in the root booth.

[00:18:19] Yeah.

[00:18:20] That would be wildly entertaining.

[00:18:23] Oh, I guarantee you people would tune in.

[00:18:25] Would Mariners' ownership like all the things we're saying?

[00:18:27] Maybe not.

[00:18:28] But you can't tell me you wouldn't be entertained.

[00:18:29] Or you couldn't at least see through your eyes if you're the ownership group.

[00:18:33] If I was a fan watching this, especially a young fan who we're trying to appeal to demographic-wise, yeah, I can see why this is entertaining.

[00:18:40] I don't know if they'd be – well, I don't know if Ryan Divish would be doing a good job because, you know, he's a grouch.

[00:18:46] But –

[00:18:47] We bring his energy up.

[00:18:48] Well, yeah, we try and bring his energy up.

[00:18:51] Yeah.

[00:18:51] That would be fun.

[00:18:53] That's a good idea.

[00:18:53] Anyway, as we wrap this –

[00:18:54] That would be really funny.

[00:18:55] Really fun.

[00:18:56] Now, as we wrap this up, one little quick note on Rich Walls, who I've known for a while now.

[00:19:02] And like you said, he does live in the area.

[00:19:04] Really good broadcaster.

[00:19:05] That would make a lot of sense.

[00:19:06] And again, like we were talking to him earlier this year because he was at a couple games getting ready for some national stuff.

[00:19:12] And he was out on the field pregame.

[00:19:13] And he was saying, yeah, I remember when I got that call to do those games when the whole Mariners booth had COVID.

[00:19:18] I got called up.

[00:19:19] It was maybe 8.30 p.m. the night before the game they needed me to do.

[00:19:23] It's like, hey, can you call this game tomorrow?

[00:19:25] The whole booth has COVID.

[00:19:28] And he did it.

[00:19:29] So, yeah, that would make sense.

[00:19:32] There's probably some other names that they might throw out there.

[00:19:34] But we'll see how it all goes.

[00:19:36] I think we know who the main three are going to be.

[00:19:37] And ultimately, we will very much miss Dave Sims.

[00:19:41] And we don't know in the future how the Mariners broadcast format is going to change with Root Sports.

[00:19:47] Are they going to have different shows?

[00:19:48] Are they going to have different employees?

[00:19:51] They could create new things and offer something up to an outside person.

[00:19:56] But that information we're not privy to.

[00:19:59] So, if that was the case and they brought in an outside talent, that would make a lot of sense as well.

[00:20:06] Yeah.

[00:20:06] But we don't know what that would be right now.

[00:20:08] But there are a lot of very talented people in the local market who I think could bring an entertaining spin on Mariners baseball.

[00:20:14] Yeah.

[00:20:15] Okay.

[00:20:16] We spent, what, 15 to 20 minutes talking Dave Sims and broadcasting, which is very deserved.

[00:20:22] He deserves that.

[00:20:23] Because he's earned that throughout his time here.

[00:20:26] We're really going to miss him.

[00:20:27] We wish him the best of luck in New York.

[00:20:29] Hopefully, we'll get to see him when the Yankees come to town next year.

[00:20:32] But he's going to do great.

[00:20:35] Okay.

[00:20:35] Before we get to our next topic and potential trade candidates for the Mariners, let's take a pause here.

[00:20:41] We're going to talk to you guys about our friends over at Pagatcha's Pub 85.

[00:20:45] Come next year, you want to listen to Goldie do 162 TV games?

[00:20:49] You want to watch some other sports now or in the future?

[00:20:52] That's your place to go.

[00:20:54] Head over there.

[00:20:54] There's 20 TVs in the place.

[00:20:56] So, when Mariners season rolls around, there will be Mariners.

[00:20:58] There's obviously football right now, college, NFL, basketball, hockey, etc.

[00:21:03] There's awesome food.

[00:21:04] And happy hour specials are amazing over there.

[00:21:07] They're $3 and $4 drinks for happy hour.

[00:21:10] That's Monday through Friday happy hours.

[00:21:12] It's 2 to 6 p.m.

[00:21:13] $3 and $4 drinks.

[00:21:14] An awesome time with your friends.

[00:21:15] All of that is over at Pagatcha's Pub 85 in Kirkland.

[00:21:47] Wünschst du dir jemanden, der dich versteht wie kein anderer?

[00:22:12] Okay.

[00:22:15] So, trade candidates.

[00:22:23] Before we get to the trade candidates, we have a question to propose to the people.

[00:22:28] As part of this exercise, these trade candidates will require the Mariners trading people away.

[00:22:34] It could be for guys on the big league roster.

[00:22:37] It could be for guys in the minor league system.

[00:22:39] But before we dive into who those guys are, let's ask a question here.

[00:22:45] If you're going to sit here and think right now, here on November 14th,

[00:22:50] if the Mariners were going to trade one of their five starters, which one would it be and why?

[00:22:56] I'm going to put the ask out to you.

[00:22:58] Leave us a comment.

[00:22:59] Let us know why.

[00:23:01] Give us a description.

[00:23:01] If it's Castillo, if it's Gilbert, if it's Kirby, or if you want to trade one of the two youngest guys for an opportunity at a monumental return.

[00:23:10] So, that's a question we ask.

[00:23:12] Because there is one guy here in this batch that we've picked out that would require a starter to be traded.

[00:23:20] Right.

[00:23:21] So, think about that as you're listening to us today.

[00:23:24] Not all of them that we picked out would be required to trade a starter.

[00:23:28] And I'm sure if it's up to the Mariners, they will try and avoid that.

[00:23:30] But if you want true, serious impact, and especially a younger bat offensively, it may cost that.

[00:23:37] So, to answer your question, and because it's going to be a question all offseason, it's a warranted one.

[00:23:42] Here's what I'd say.

[00:23:44] If you are the most worried about winning right now in 2025, Luis Castillo makes the most sense.

[00:23:50] I think both of us have talked about that.

[00:23:52] I certainly have in terms of who is the guy that you would be most comfortable trading away and would hurt the least if you gave up.

[00:24:00] And that's because of his age.

[00:24:01] It's because he wasn't quite as dominant as he's been in years past.

[00:24:05] That's in terms of winning in 2025.

[00:24:09] Long term?

[00:24:11] Look, it kills me to say this, but if you're thinking about the long term outlook of this roster, I think it has to be Logan Gilbert.

[00:24:20] So, I know we were joking around a bit ago with all the broadcasting stuff and us getting on the air.

[00:24:26] But now, on a little bit more of a serious note, let me preface this by saying things can change in the next couple years.

[00:24:33] Doesn't mean everything's going to be set in stone this second.

[00:24:36] But we would say from people we've talked to who we trust and we think are very credible, what we've gathered is it seems very unlikely Logan Gilbert's going to sign an extension in Seattle.

[00:24:53] That just seems to be what we've gathered.

[00:24:55] Now, again, could things change in the next couple years?

[00:24:57] Absolutely.

[00:24:57] Could he come around to the idea or the Mariners come around to the idea?

[00:25:00] Absolutely.

[00:25:01] Right now where it stands, that's where it seems to be at.

[00:25:06] And if that is the case, it sucks, but you're going to have to trade him.

[00:25:11] Because trading Logan Gilbert with, let's say, two to two and a half years left on his deal, whether it's at this deadline, hopefully not, or next offseason, or even this offseason, you're going to get way more value back than you would with a year left.

[00:25:23] I would compare it to Corbin Burns, right?

[00:25:25] Brewer's got a good return back for Corbin Burns.

[00:25:28] They got some real prospects back, some guys with upside.

[00:25:30] The Brewers have traded Corbin Burns with two to three years left.

[00:25:34] You're talking about a monumental trade package in return.

[00:25:38] So it sucks.

[00:25:40] But if you really think he is not going to stay here long term, you may be forced to do it at some point.

[00:25:46] Next offseason is the time to circle the trade Logan Gilbert, if that's what the Mariners ultimately choose to do, and if they want to get the best value in return.

[00:25:55] I don't think right now, if you were to trade Logan Gilbert, you could get market value back for him.

[00:26:02] Market value right now for Logan Gilbert, this idea has been thrown out, is if you could essentially swap him and Cattell Marte, who just finished as a National League MVP finalist this year.

[00:26:13] Both have three years of control left.

[00:26:15] If you want to stretch it even further, you would need to get a young star to superstar back for Logan Gilbert.

[00:26:24] It would need to be immense.

[00:26:25] It doesn't seem like you could get that right now, which would lead the Mariners to wait until next offseason.

[00:26:31] But at that point, as you said, if you're trying to make a franchise-altering trade that would seriously change the trajectory of your offense and give you legitimate offensive pieces,

[00:26:44] then it would make sense to trade him with two years of control left.

[00:26:50] Now, we don't know the exact reasoning of why Logan Gilbert wouldn't sign here.

[00:26:54] Whether or not he doesn't like the idea of signing here, whether it be the weather, whether it be the organization, whether it be the expected number he would think they would be able to offer him and not be up to his market value.

[00:27:08] We don't know whether or not he would rather be on the East Coast because he grew up in Florida and went to college in Florida.

[00:27:14] It could be a number of factors.

[00:27:16] It could be all of them combined.

[00:27:20] But that's what it seems like right now from what we've heard.

[00:27:23] And if that is the case, I would not be shocked if this is the last full season we see of Logan Gilbert in a Mariners uniform.

[00:27:30] They could wait another year after that because they have all three years of control.

[00:27:34] Heck, they could wait for the deadline before he becomes a free agent to trade him two and a half years from now.

[00:27:42] But time's a ticking now for Logan Gilbert.

[00:27:45] And it's the same thing with George Kirby, who's got one more year of control, but the same thing applies to him.

[00:27:50] The same thing applies to Bryce and the same thing applies to Brian Wu.

[00:27:54] Just something to keep an eye out on for the future.

[00:27:57] Look, maybe the reason is he just wants to test his market.

[00:27:59] A lot of players, when you're as good as Logan Gilbert is or George Kirby is, whoever, and you've worked your whole life to get to that point, there is a real human intrigue to say, what am I worth to people out there?

[00:28:11] What am I worth to the league?

[00:28:14] And guys want to hit free agency as a result of that.

[00:28:17] They want to be courted.

[00:28:20] They kind of want to be swayed.

[00:28:21] It's just human nature, right?

[00:28:24] So that could be part of it.

[00:28:27] And again, let's say it one more time.

[00:28:29] Could things change in the next couple years?

[00:28:31] Yeah.

[00:28:33] But from what we've picked up right now, it just seems unlikely.

[00:28:37] So something to think about.

[00:28:39] That's all.

[00:28:41] All right.

[00:28:41] We ready to get into some of these actual candidates?

[00:28:43] Let's talk about how we structured these lists.

[00:28:45] Yes.

[00:28:46] Let's do that.

[00:28:48] We did last week with our free agents.

[00:28:51] We did an A option, a B option, and a C option.

[00:28:55] We threw out the C option for this week.

[00:28:57] And instead, we did one A option and two B options because we'd rather just talk about the better players.

[00:29:03] So let's start at the bottom of your list, Lyle.

[00:29:06] Lead it off.

[00:29:07] Who is one of your B options that the Mariners should trade for?

[00:29:11] Yeah.

[00:29:12] Two B options and an A option.

[00:29:14] I will start with this.

[00:29:16] Nico Horner.

[00:29:17] And I'll give credit to Mike Salk on this because earlier this week on the show, he brought it up.

[00:29:23] I was not exactly intrigued.

[00:29:27] But after a little more time to process it, I'm bought in on the idea.

[00:29:32] And we can dive into it.

[00:29:34] Nico Horner is a walking four-win player.

[00:29:37] He is a walking four-win player.

[00:29:39] That's a really, really valuable piece to have to your team.

[00:29:43] He's also got two years of club control.

[00:29:44] So you'd have him for multiple chances at a run in the playoffs.

[00:29:48] The reason I didn't love Nico Horner at first is because he is a soft-hitting second baseman.

[00:29:53] Objectively, he is a soft-hitting second baseman.

[00:29:56] And that's what scares me is how much does he move the offense?

[00:30:00] Does he increase the value of the team and success?

[00:30:03] Yes.

[00:30:03] Because he's a great defender.

[00:30:05] How much does he improve the offense?

[00:30:07] All that said, when you look around at what other second base options could be out there this winter,

[00:30:13] I don't know if there's a better one than Nico Horner.

[00:30:16] You're talking about Jonathan India.

[00:30:18] You're talking about Brendan Rodgers.

[00:30:20] You're talking about a few other guys.

[00:30:22] Horner may be the best option.

[00:30:24] He's fast.

[00:30:25] He doesn't strike out.

[00:30:26] And again, great defender.

[00:30:28] Which Mariner's second baseman have not been in years.

[00:30:32] This means you have to leave a five-star review on Apple, right?

[00:30:35] For Brock and Sock.

[00:30:37] Oh, of course.

[00:30:37] Because of this idea that wowed you so much.

[00:30:39] You need to help get your own show up to a 4.7.

[00:30:42] By the way, loud, you check.

[00:30:44] We're at a 4.8 now.

[00:30:45] Let's go!

[00:30:46] Woo!

[00:30:46] Yeah.

[00:30:47] Again, keep rating and reviewing, guys.

[00:30:50] Like we said at the start of the show, it does help us out a bunch.

[00:30:54] So, soft hitting second baseman.

[00:30:56] Correct.

[00:30:57] Now, I want people to think about this.

[00:30:59] You can create runs for your team without crushing the baseball at the bat.

[00:31:04] There are other ways to do that.

[00:31:05] And Nico Horner does it in the 88th and 92nd percentile in fielding and running on the base paths.

[00:31:12] There are other ways to create value and score more runs for your team without hitting the ball over the fence.

[00:31:18] Because not only is he fast, but he's a phenomenal defender.

[00:31:22] There's a reason why his war each of the last three seasons has been over 4, over 4, and then barely below 4 this season.

[00:31:32] It's because he creates value without hitting the ball over the fence.

[00:31:37] And the bar for Mariners' second baseman is really not that high.

[00:31:42] Just think about what Jorge Polanco did this year.

[00:31:44] As we check off the boxes of Nico Horner being a good base runner and a great defender.

[00:31:51] I'm going to ask you, Lyle.

[00:31:53] Just think about this.

[00:31:54] What was Jorge Polanco good at last year?

[00:31:57] Did he bring an above-average area of play to the Mariners?

[00:32:04] His walk rate, but that's about it.

[00:32:07] Okay.

[00:32:08] That's fair.

[00:32:11] So, that was it.

[00:32:12] You could do the same exercise with Colton Wong.

[00:32:15] You could do it with Abraham Toro.

[00:32:16] You could do it with Shed Long.

[00:32:17] You could do it with Adam Frazier.

[00:32:19] Every single one of these guys.

[00:32:21] And by the way, none of those guys were very good defenders.

[00:32:25] No.

[00:32:26] But Nico Horner would be.

[00:32:27] And having a great defender at second base, by the way, would also help J.P. Crawford be a better defender as well when going to his left feels a little bit more relaxed because you have a great defender on the other side of that.

[00:32:41] Like, that's not nothing there for Nico Horner.

[00:32:45] Mariners don't have many Nico Horner's and haven't for a while on their infield.

[00:32:49] Like, the closest thing they've had to a Nico Horner really, Lyle, was a 2020 to 2021 version of J.P. Crawford.

[00:32:57] Mm-hmm.

[00:32:58] Right?

[00:32:59] Yeah.

[00:32:59] That's about it.

[00:33:01] Mm-hmm.

[00:33:02] And the Mariners could use him.

[00:33:04] They really, really could use him.

[00:33:06] Because if you're going to play defense that's that good, increases the value of the team a lot.

[00:33:11] The reason Jorge Polanco struggled here, obviously he was brought here to hit.

[00:33:16] But his very, very much lackluster defense did nobody any favors.

[00:33:21] He was bottom three percentile in outs above average.

[00:33:25] And to Polo's credit, we know he was playing hurt.

[00:33:26] We know he had to battle through a lot this year.

[00:33:29] But the Mariners have not had a second baseman like that defensively in a long time.

[00:33:34] And truthfully, let me say it again.

[00:33:35] Nico Horner is a soft-hitting second baseman.

[00:33:37] He is in the first percentile of the league in barrel rate.

[00:33:40] He's bottom 10% in hard hit rate.

[00:33:43] He is not going to hit the ball for much power or much authority.

[00:33:47] But he still had a 103 WRC plus last year.

[00:33:51] We'll say it again.

[00:33:52] That is better than any Mariners second baseman since Robbie.

[00:33:56] So if you're going to be the best offensive second baseman for the Mariners since Robinson Cano and play elite-level goal glove defense, I can sign up for that.

[00:34:05] There's no variance to his offensive game either.

[00:34:07] It's been between 103 and 108 for four consecutive seasons.

[00:34:11] Right.

[00:34:11] That's something you can count on.

[00:34:12] Yeah.

[00:34:13] So he shouldn't be affected by the park that much, which I'm sure the Mariners are now looking into in terms of who is not going to be affected by T-Mobile Park.

[00:34:21] Right.

[00:34:23] Because that's only a worry for guys that try and hit the ball over the fence.

[00:34:28] Right.

[00:34:29] All right.

[00:34:29] We can keep ripping through these.

[00:34:30] Obviously, we spent a little bit of time at the start of the episode talking to Dave Sims.

[00:34:35] So, you know, I don't want to have the episode go too long or anything.

[00:34:38] So we can start going through some of these.

[00:34:40] Who you got for your first B option?

[00:34:42] Let's go to another.

[00:34:43] Yeah.

[00:34:43] So let's go to one of my B options.

[00:34:46] And I'm going to present the other side of the Nico Horner argument.

[00:34:51] I'm presenting to you, Lyle, Bo Bichette.

[00:34:54] Now, I can feel you reeling a little bit from this.

[00:34:58] First reaction when I say Bo Bichette's name.

[00:35:00] No.

[00:35:03] What?

[00:35:03] What?

[00:35:05] Dude.

[00:35:06] That's not very nice.

[00:35:08] Like, this is the exact type of guy that the Mariners would acquire and does not hit here.

[00:35:14] I know Bo Bichette was hurt last year.

[00:35:16] I know he has been a star for the majority of his career.

[00:35:19] He put up a 598 OPS last season.

[00:35:25] Like, you're talking about a guy who did that in a stadium that is indoors.

[00:35:28] Yes, he spent time hurt.

[00:35:30] But now you're asking him to go from Toronto to T-Mobile Park.

[00:35:35] And oh, by the way, now Bo Bichette, you're going to get back to being a 120 WRC plus hitter.

[00:35:40] Now you're going to get back to being an all-star.

[00:35:42] And now you're going to have to still give up a decent amount to get him.

[00:35:44] I have my very, very, very, like, reserved limitations on this.

[00:35:51] Here's why I'm high on Bo Bichette and why I think he would be a valuable player for the Mariners to try and acquire.

[00:35:57] Yeah, the Blue Jays said he wasn't on the block, but I don't believe that for a second.

[00:36:01] Just in the same light how the Nationals said they were never trading Juan Soto.

[00:36:05] Because here's the position the Blue Jays are in.

[00:36:07] They have a core that, frankly, hasn't won a whole lot for them.

[00:36:11] They have two young guys who are going to be free agents next year.

[00:36:15] And they probably are only going to pay one in free agency.

[00:36:18] I would be...

[00:36:19] I think Ross Adkins should be fired if he decides to pay Bo Bichette over paying for Vladimir Guerrero Jr.

[00:36:25] I really think so.

[00:36:26] And he should never have another job in baseball ever again.

[00:36:28] If that's the case.

[00:36:29] So, if he makes the correct decision and decides to pay Vladimir Guerrero Jr.,

[00:36:35] I don't think keeping Bo Bichette on your roster does your team any good.

[00:36:40] And I think they should try and get some value back for him.

[00:36:42] I think the Mariners are the team that could use Bo Bichette's services the most.

[00:36:46] He makes, at his best, Bo Bichette makes a ton of contact.

[00:36:51] He hits the ball very hard.

[00:36:53] He has 20 home run power.

[00:36:55] He's not...

[00:36:56] Lucky for you, Lau, he's not a great shortstop anymore.

[00:36:59] He's terrible defensively at shortstops.

[00:37:01] You move him to second base, you could probably move him to third base.

[00:37:04] And you hope that with a full healthy season, he returns to the guy that he was in 2021 and 2022 and 2023,

[00:37:12] where he's worth over four wins and he's going to lead the league in hits.

[00:37:16] I think the Mariners could use a player like that, really.

[00:37:18] For the amount of times you just want a guy to poke a single the other way,

[00:37:22] Bo Bichette's your guy in that case.

[00:37:25] Like, there is a ton of value in this player.

[00:37:28] Because, while he's not going to be the Nico Horner of providing a bunch of value on defense,

[00:37:33] he's going to get to four wins above replacement a different way.

[00:37:37] He's going to hit his way there.

[00:37:38] And I think Mariners fans really just want that.

[00:37:40] I think they really do.

[00:37:42] And I'm also not concerned about this year.

[00:37:44] Because guys don't fall off cliffs permanently for their career at age 26.

[00:37:51] That does not happen.

[00:37:54] So yeah, Bo Bichette dealt with some injuries this year.

[00:37:57] He played about half the season.

[00:37:59] Of course he's going to, you know, struggle with dealing with injuries in and out of the lineup.

[00:38:05] After playing nearly every single day since he debuted.

[00:38:09] Guys don't just disappear at this age.

[00:38:11] And that's why it would be okay trading for him.

[00:38:14] Here's another thing.

[00:38:15] Can I jump in here for a second?

[00:38:17] Yeah, you can.

[00:38:17] Yeah, please.

[00:38:18] Please break it up.

[00:38:19] Are you confident that he turns this thing around in Seattle?

[00:38:25] Jorge Polanco was one of baseball's best offensive second basemen for years on end.

[00:38:30] And then we saw what happened.

[00:38:31] At age 30 with a declining athletic profile.

[00:38:35] While tearing his patella tent, might I add.

[00:38:39] Yes.

[00:38:40] Right?

[00:38:41] The other end of this.

[00:38:42] Yes.

[00:38:43] The other end of this is, look, I'm done buying into Mariners hitting philosophies and the whole dominate the zone thing.

[00:38:50] Because their hitting philosophies don't work.

[00:38:52] They have had bad offenses for multiple years in a row now.

[00:38:55] For way too long, frankly.

[00:38:57] But I got to tell you, I hate, hate, hate Bo Bichette's approach.

[00:39:02] And I'd put up with it more if he had come off a year where he was an all-star again.

[00:39:07] He had a 598 OPS.

[00:39:09] You're talking about a guy who swings at everything.

[00:39:12] Especially every first pitch ever thrown to man.

[00:39:15] He doesn't walk.

[00:39:16] He's a free swinger.

[00:39:19] Paired that with being in Seattle and having under a 600 OPS last year.

[00:39:23] I am nervous that this has a chance to massively flop on the Mariners if they make this move.

[00:39:29] I have a way to make it more acceptable for you.

[00:39:32] Okay.

[00:39:33] There's two ways to approach this.

[00:39:35] So the first way is that Bo Bichette has one year of control left.

[00:39:39] He's owed $17.5 million this upcoming season.

[00:39:44] So that in itself, while coming off a 71 WRC plus in subpar defense, shouldn't cost a whole lot in a trade.

[00:39:52] I don't think the Blue Jays would have much leverage in that case to get a Juan Soto package for Bo Bichette.

[00:40:01] But I can solve two problems for the price of one here.

[00:40:04] What if the Mariners send a little bit more prospect capital back to the Blue Jays, but also send Mitch Hanager's money over to Toronto?

[00:40:15] The salaries.

[00:40:16] The salaries.

[00:40:16] There's a $2 million salary difference between the two.

[00:40:19] But the Mariners offload Mitch Hanager's salary for this year.

[00:40:24] The Blue Jays have a significantly bigger budget than the Mariners do.

[00:40:27] I think they're more okay eating some salary to get some younger players in their next wave of prospects in return for Bo Bichette.

[00:40:39] And therefore, that also clears up a bench spot for the Mariners that, as of right now, looks like it's going to be occupied by Mitch Hanager.

[00:40:46] Justin Hollander was talking to the media earlier this week at the GM meetings.

[00:40:50] And the words out of his mouth said that the Mariners anticipate Mitch Hanager bouncing back for the Mariners in 2025.

[00:40:58] Which, frankly, I don't think should be allowed to happen.

[00:41:01] But the way you can avoid that is if you send Mitch Hanager's money away and take on some money back anticipating a bounce back for Bo Bichette.

[00:41:11] And yeah, you'll give up a couple prospects.

[00:41:13] But you know what?

[00:41:14] You and I have arrived to the point where prospects should not matter.

[00:41:18] Like 2025 matters right now.

[00:41:21] It does.

[00:41:23] I'd be sad if it was one of our guys that was dealt away in the trade.

[00:41:26] But yes, the general overall philosophy is correct.

[00:41:29] And to answer your question of how would I feel if the Mariners traded for Bo Bichette, gave up a little bit higher of a return in terms of prospect capital, but got rid of Hanager.

[00:41:38] Well, I'd be a little more bought in.

[00:41:42] Solves the problems.

[00:41:43] Solves our problems.

[00:41:45] Look, in terms of what Hollander said this week, he's not going to go out in public and say, yeah, we're probably going to move on from Mitch Hanager right after he picked up his club option.

[00:41:52] Of course, he's not going to say that publicly.

[00:41:54] However, it's roster malpractice and organizational malpractice if he is on this roster in 2025.

[00:42:02] I love Mitch Hanager.

[00:42:03] I cannot stress that enough.

[00:42:05] This is not about him in any way other than he just feels like he is over the hill and isn't going to recover from the two down years he's now had in 23 and 24.

[00:42:17] Because we talked about this pre-recording, TJ, that if Justin Turner comes back, which we're totally fine with him being back on this team for a lot of different reasons.

[00:42:28] Then all of a sudden, your bench is Justin Turner, Mitch Hanager, Mitch Garver, and Dylan Moore.

[00:42:36] There is no versatility on that bench in any way, shape, or form whatsoever aside from Demo.

[00:42:42] And it's going to give you a lot of problems throughout a course of a season of games.

[00:42:47] So they have to find a way to remove Mitch Hanager off the roster.

[00:42:53] If it's for taking a chance on Bo Bichette and you give up a little bit higher for prospect capital, all right, I'd buy in a little more.

[00:42:59] They need to be faster.

[00:43:01] Yeah.

[00:43:01] Isn't every player on that bench at that point 30 or older?

[00:43:06] Yeah, I mean, Demo's still a good athlete.

[00:43:08] Right.

[00:43:09] But he's not like a blazing speedster at this point of his career.

[00:43:14] No, he can still steal 20 bags.

[00:43:16] Right.

[00:43:17] But like fast enough.

[00:43:18] But the Mariners do need more athleticism.

[00:43:20] And the Mariners keep telling us they need more athleticism.

[00:43:22] Orion Divish has said over and over how they lack that top tier athleticism that someone like Nico Horner would bring.

[00:43:31] And Bo Bichette's like a fine athlete.

[00:43:33] He's middle of the road when it comes to speed.

[00:43:34] He's going to be 27 next year.

[00:43:36] So he's not going to hurt you when it comes to running the bases and being fast.

[00:43:41] He's like right in the middle of the pack at that point.

[00:43:43] But that's fine.

[00:43:44] You need like young legs on the base paths.

[00:43:47] That can create those runs on the base paths as much as they can do it at the plate.

[00:43:52] Yeah.

[00:43:52] As we wrap this up before we move on to the next guy.

[00:43:56] I would much rather see Leo Rivas as a bench player on this team than Mitch Hanegar.

[00:44:01] He can do more things.

[00:44:02] Guys, things that a bench player is supposed to do.

[00:44:05] Right.

[00:44:05] So.

[00:44:06] Your next B option.

[00:44:08] B option number two.

[00:44:11] Popular name.

[00:44:13] Been linked to the Mariners.

[00:44:14] He's been linked to trade talks in baseball now over the last few days.

[00:44:18] And frankly, it just makes too much sense.

[00:44:20] It's Alec Boehm.

[00:44:21] What did he do in 2024?

[00:44:23] A guy with now two years of club control remaining.

[00:44:25] So a guy you will have for multiple seasons.

[00:44:28] Hit 280.

[00:44:29] 779 OPS.

[00:44:31] 115 WRC+.

[00:44:32] 15% above league average.

[00:44:34] Three and a half win player.

[00:44:36] And was an all-star this past year.

[00:44:38] Here's the problem with third base.

[00:44:41] There are not a lot of options.

[00:44:43] There really, really is not.

[00:44:45] We've talked about this on a past episode.

[00:44:46] Once upon a time, third base was at a golden age in baseball.

[00:44:51] It's not that way anymore.

[00:44:53] The talent level and the depth that the position has across the sport is down.

[00:44:58] And when you look across baseball at the options either via trade or free agency for third baseman this winter,

[00:45:04] which might be the most glaring need on this roster.

[00:45:07] You got Alex Bregman, which I think we all really don't believe is happening for good reason.

[00:45:12] So if you get past Bregman, Bome makes the most sense.

[00:45:17] And if you need one more point to sell you on it, let me tell you what.

[00:45:22] Alec Bome was eighth in baseball among all qualified third basemen in F4 this past year.

[00:45:28] Three and a half win player.

[00:45:29] He was ninth in WRC+.

[00:45:31] The only third baseman ahead of Bome in war were as follows.

[00:45:37] Jose Ramirez, not going anywhere.

[00:45:39] Matt Chapman, not going anywhere.

[00:45:41] Just signed an extension.

[00:45:41] Rafael Devers, not going anywhere on a huge contract.

[00:45:45] Alex Bregman, probably going to go somewhere else.

[00:45:47] Jazz Chisholm technically qualifies for this.

[00:45:49] He's not really a third baseman, but I put him on here anyway.

[00:45:54] Gino Eugenio Suarez, who's not going anywhere because the Diamondbacks picked up his option.

[00:45:58] The Mariners thought he was cooked.

[00:45:59] He clearly was not.

[00:46:00] And now they're in this predicament.

[00:46:02] And they also salary dumped him for what it's worth.

[00:46:05] Total mistake $6 million.

[00:46:06] Don't leave out the best part.

[00:46:07] Oh, yeah.

[00:46:08] But, you know, Luis Arias, that was great.

[00:46:10] And Manny Machado, not going anywhere on a huge contract.

[00:46:14] Those are the only guys that had more value at third base than Alec Bome in 2024.

[00:46:19] This is your best option.

[00:46:21] And I would be very, very much looking into it if I were the Mariners.

[00:46:25] You're right.

[00:46:26] There's not.

[00:46:27] There's not enough options out there for third base.

[00:46:29] Because if there were more options, I would bring up the point to you that I would be concerned how his offensive profile would translate to T-Mobile Park.

[00:46:37] Because, frankly, for his career, if you take a look at the entire batch, he's about a league average hitter.

[00:46:44] He's been under 100.

[00:46:47] Four years ago and three years ago, two years ago, he finally got over 100.

[00:46:52] This past year, he was at 115.

[00:46:58] Like, Philly is such a good hitter park.

[00:47:02] It invites good offensive players.

[00:47:05] And the Phillies lineup is really good.

[00:47:07] So you'd expect Bome, surrounded by all that talent, to hit really well.

[00:47:11] But, frankly, up until this year, he's been an average to below average hitter at third base.

[00:47:17] Which is great to see.

[00:47:18] But he also took a big step forward on defense this year, which is amazing.

[00:47:22] Because he went from 12th percentile to 87th percentile in outs above average.

[00:47:27] Like, really, really worked.

[00:47:29] This, I think, the previous offseason to get that done.

[00:47:33] Which is cool to see.

[00:47:34] It has been noted, though, from multiple places, he does have a couple of character concerns.

[00:47:39] Or at least the way some of the players, I think, AJ Pruszynski brought it up on foul territory.

[00:47:46] About his personality.

[00:47:52] What's the right way to word it?

[00:47:53] Personality?

[00:47:54] So what AJ said is, he knows people that are very well tied in with the Phillies.

[00:47:58] He said it didn't come from Rob Thompson.

[00:47:59] It didn't come from the front office, etc.

[00:48:02] But he's very tied in with some people that said they didn't love the way Alec Boehm would go about his business.

[00:48:08] They just felt like he had a lot of growing up to do.

[00:48:10] Some maturity issues, etc.

[00:48:13] And that's part of the reason he's probably on the trade block right now.

[00:48:17] We have a couple friends in Philly who are decently connected.

[00:48:21] Know Phillies baseball very well.

[00:48:24] Have some information on this.

[00:48:26] What we picked up from asking around there is it doesn't sound like overly concerning character issues, to be honest.

[00:48:35] It basically sounds like in a nutshell, he's a little bit of a whiner and he can be a little bit of a powder, which isn't great.

[00:48:41] Bad body language.

[00:48:42] Yeah.

[00:48:43] But there are bad body language.

[00:48:44] But there are things that could be a lot worse.

[00:48:46] And guess what?

[00:48:48] This is on the Mariners.

[00:48:49] Because if you believe in Dan Wilson as a manager, then he should be able to coach and manage Alec Boehm up to where he fits that clubhouse.

[00:48:58] Because Scott Service was known for being a culture setter.

[00:49:01] He got the best out of his guys.

[00:49:03] Good locker room, etc.

[00:49:05] Mariners decided that wasn't good enough.

[00:49:07] They brought in Dan Wilson, who they claim to be an upgrade.

[00:49:10] If Dan Wilson is going to be so great, he should be able to help a guy in his mid-20s gel in a locker room, not be such a whiner, and get the best out of him.

[00:49:21] If they believe he's really the right guy for this job.

[00:49:23] Because the Mariners have put them in a position, and let's be very clear, this is 150% self-inflicted, that they do not get to go out and acquire perfect players.

[00:49:34] They refuse to spend the money.

[00:49:35] Oh, we haven't even said it yet today.

[00:49:36] We're like 40 minutes in.

[00:49:38] This is a perfect opportunity.

[00:49:39] Not a smart strategy to sign high-end free agents.

[00:49:42] So, there we go.

[00:49:43] Again, it's like a tick, guys.

[00:49:44] If I don't say it, it's going to drive me crazy.

[00:49:46] So, there we go.

[00:49:47] It's like me drinking coffee in the morning.

[00:49:49] Right.

[00:49:51] So, because of that, you are going to acquire players with imperfections.

[00:49:55] You are not going to go after the Juan Sotos of the world.

[00:49:56] You're not going to go after the Alex Bregmans of the world.

[00:49:59] He's not perfect, but still.

[00:50:02] There are going to be guys that you have to deal with some deficiencies.

[00:50:04] And if for Alec Boehm, your deficiency is you are most worried about how he will gel in a clubhouse, you just hired a new manager.

[00:50:11] You have new coaches in the clubhouse.

[00:50:14] They should be there for things like this.

[00:50:18] When I heard these things, the first thing I thought of was, first of all, stuff like this hasn't stopped the Mariners from acquiring players in the past.

[00:50:29] Anyone remember Jesse Winker?

[00:50:31] Anyone remember Gene Segura?

[00:50:33] Gene Segura.

[00:50:34] Or even, not quite in the body language sense, but their last two third basemen have shown up to spring training out of shape.

[00:50:44] When it comes to just work ethic and character, right?

[00:50:48] Not saying someone like Geno is a bad person, but it was noted, and Ryan Davis said it a lot in 2023, that Geno, part of the reason he struggled in 2023 is he just wasn't in great shape.

[00:50:59] Right.

[00:51:00] Like, all of this comes back on a player's, whether it be your personality or your work ethic, it just comes on self-responsibility of the players and needing a little bit more accountability in that sense.

[00:51:13] So it sounds like Alec Boehm needs an adult in the room.

[00:51:17] Guess who else needs an adult in the room?

[00:51:19] The Seattle Mariners.

[00:51:21] Because what happened in 2023 and 2024 without veteran leaders, extrovert leaders in that clubhouse like Carlos Santana or Justin Turner-Lisle, what did the team do?

[00:51:35] They were pretty dysfunctional.

[00:51:37] I'll rattle through it again.

[00:51:38] Kelmick kicks a cooler, breaks his foot.

[00:51:40] George Kirby goes to the media and said, I didn't want to be out there in the seventh inning.

[00:51:44] I mean, we agree with Cal, but Cal goes to the media saying, yeah, this team's not good enough.

[00:51:48] We need to go out and spend.

[00:51:50] He's right, but, you know, that was another story that was about the Mariners that wasn't in a positive light because clearly players are frustrated.

[00:52:00] So, yeah, this team does need a veteran leader.

[00:52:03] It's why they're talking to Justin Turner about coming back.

[00:52:06] I'm sure Alec Boehm could benefit a lot from Justin Turner.

[00:52:09] And, yes, they cannot have another third baseman come to camp out of shape.

[00:52:12] We were down there in spring training for Luis Urias, and we weren't the only ones.

[00:52:16] And I think the consensus takeaway from everybody who was down there that saw him was, good lord.

[00:52:22] Listen, he was dealing with an injury in spring training.

[00:52:27] I remember tweeting a video watching him throw a ball across the diamond, and the reaction was exactly what you'd expect from Mariners Twitter.

[00:52:34] Because when I saw him make the throw, I was like, what did I just watch?

[00:52:38] I mean, he short-hopped it.

[00:52:40] I mean, he looked, the throwing motion looked as unfluid as could humanly be.

[00:52:44] Yeah, they can't have this again.

[00:52:46] And I will say to the home road splits notion, for what it's worth, Alec Boehm had a 748 OPS at Citizens Bank Park this year and an 808 OPS on the road.

[00:52:55] Now, how that translates to T-Mobile Park specifically, which is the hardest park to hit in baseball, I don't know.

[00:53:02] Because he's a bit of a pull hitter and has power.

[00:53:06] Is his offensive game going to be suppressed by the ballpark?

[00:53:08] There's no way to know for sure.

[00:53:10] I will say his profile looks pretty good when you look at Savant.

[00:53:13] I love the fact he's a 14% strikeout guy.

[00:53:16] He doesn't strike out.

[00:53:17] Another thing the Mariners need.

[00:53:19] Get guys that don't strike out.

[00:53:21] So, look, we've gone on for a bit about Alec Boehm now.

[00:53:25] But there's too many things about this idea that make too much sense in terms of especially the Mariners' need at the hot corner.

[00:53:34] So the Phillies are putting him on the block.

[00:53:37] There's another team in the National League that is looking to trade away some players as well.

[00:53:41] And that team, as we look to my second B option, is the St. Louis Cardinals.

[00:53:46] Now, the Cardinals have a number of players they could trade away.

[00:53:49] Okay, Sonny Gray, Nolan Arenado, Ryan Helsley, Wilson Contreras, Eric Fetty.

[00:53:56] A lot of dudes that the Cardinals have on the block as they're in this weird transition year

[00:54:04] where they've already promised someone else a job next year,

[00:54:07] but they're keeping their current decision maker for another season.

[00:54:11] Really weird.

[00:54:12] Just saying, oh yeah, we're going to focus on our player development this season, not try and win.

[00:54:17] Don't think I've ever heard that before.

[00:54:19] Like said publicly.

[00:54:20] It's crazy to me.

[00:54:21] So if the Cardinals are going to do this, why not trade away one of your older quote-unquote core guys

[00:54:27] and get a big return back?

[00:54:29] And trade away Brendan Donovan, who solves a lot of issues if he were to join the Mariners roster.

[00:54:35] We're talking about a 28-year-old who's on the upswing in a number of offensive categories.

[00:54:41] He hits for power a little bit.

[00:54:43] He walks.

[00:54:46] He plays almost anywhere.

[00:54:50] Corner outfield, all four infield spots.

[00:54:54] Sounds like a person of players the Mariners would be very interested in.

[00:54:58] Mm-hmm.

[00:54:59] He would probably play second or third base if the Mariners traded for him, but the fact he has the versatility to move around, valuable.

[00:55:07] If you have two guys who can play almost anywhere, and Dylan Moore and Brendan Donovan, and Donovan is much less of a platoon player, at least a traditional platoon player, than Dylan Moore, does you a lot.

[00:55:18] And Donovan has three years of control.

[00:55:20] So another theme here, you get him for a while, and we know it's things like this that the Mariners and Jerry DiPoto like.

[00:55:26] Controllable players.

[00:55:27] Have him for a while.

[00:55:29] He strikes out.

[00:55:30] Again, last thing.

[00:55:31] He strikes out 12% of the time.

[00:55:35] I said I like Alec Boehm.

[00:55:36] He's a 14% strikeout guy.

[00:55:37] That's really low.

[00:55:39] Brendan Donovan is even lower.

[00:55:40] Doesn't strike out.

[00:55:42] And just two years ago, he got on base 39% of the time.

[00:55:47] It's a really good on-base percentage.

[00:55:49] He's always had a good on-base percentage in his career.

[00:55:51] He's had some...

[00:55:53] His trends at the plate are fascinating to me.

[00:55:56] His home runs, 5 to 11 to 14.

[00:55:59] Isolated power has seen the same upswing.

[00:56:02] His on-base percentage, though, dropped from 394 to 365 to 342 the last three years.

[00:56:08] His WRC Plus has dropped from 127 to 118 to 115 the last three years.

[00:56:15] Someone could look at that and say, that's a player on the downswing.

[00:56:20] I think he's just growing into what he is as a player.

[00:56:24] He makes a bunch of contact in the strike zone.

[00:56:26] His contact rate, off the top of my head, I believe it's like 90%.

[00:56:30] That is absurdly high when you swing.

[00:56:33] Making contact 90% of the time.

[00:56:34] And he's doing that while finally getting a little bit more power into his swing.

[00:56:40] Unlike when he was more of an on-base guy and a lighter hitter two years ago.

[00:56:46] So the approach at the plate is good.

[00:56:48] He is above average, run value-wise, in batting, fielding, and base running.

[00:56:55] Now here's the thing with Brendan Donovan.

[00:56:58] Everything I just described, he's a very good player.

[00:57:02] He's not the best, but he's very good.

[00:57:06] I think you'd be the most expensive out of everyone except your next guy here to acquire.

[00:57:12] Just because of the control, and the age, and the versatility.

[00:57:17] A 28-year-old who can play six different positions, who can walk, and who can hit for power.

[00:57:22] Those don't come around very often.

[00:57:26] When you say expensive, are you talking a pitcher, or are you talking prospects?

[00:57:31] No. Prospects.

[00:57:32] You wouldn't trade a pitcher for him.

[00:57:34] Outside of, again, the guy you were going to highlight next.

[00:57:37] I don't think anyone of this group will cost one of your starting pitchers.

[00:57:41] But would Brendan Donovan cost three prospects,

[00:57:48] including somebody from six to nine on your prospect package?

[00:57:55] For three years of control, I think so.

[00:57:58] Yeah.

[00:57:59] That's probably right.

[00:58:00] And that'll be up to the Mariners.

[00:58:02] Again, there's a lot about his game that is good.

[00:58:05] He's not a perfect player.

[00:58:06] We'll say it again.

[00:58:07] The Mariners are in a position where they're not going to acquire perfect players.

[00:58:10] Donovan is better against righties than he is against lefties.

[00:58:14] So he doesn't hit lefties great.

[00:58:16] It's not awful.

[00:58:18] It's just not unbelievable.

[00:58:20] But I will say another positive sign is his home road splits are pretty normal.

[00:58:26] St. Louis is about an average park in terms of how it fares for hitters,

[00:58:31] in terms of park factor.

[00:58:32] But that is a good sign.

[00:58:34] He doesn't struggle on the road,

[00:58:37] which maybe the Mariners are looking at.

[00:58:40] Again, in terms of who's going to fit this ballpark.

[00:58:42] So, yeah.

[00:58:44] I would be very, very interested in Brendan Donovan.

[00:58:47] I'm curious about his defense, too.

[00:58:49] He's had the previous two seasons.

[00:58:51] His defense sucked.

[00:58:52] This past season, his defense was good.

[00:58:55] Wondering which ones are the anomaly.

[00:58:57] From what I was reading,

[00:58:58] it doesn't sound like people are too high on his defense.

[00:59:00] But when you can play that many positions,

[00:59:02] you don't need to be winning a gold glove.

[00:59:05] Because at this point,

[00:59:06] Mariners just need bodies who can hit

[00:59:08] and play those positions while being a decent athlete.

[00:59:11] Which is what Brendan Donovan is.

[00:59:13] A decent athlete.

[00:59:14] He's not amazing.

[00:59:15] But he services.

[00:59:17] And you trust Perry Hill to work with him enough to be serviceable.

[00:59:20] Right.

[00:59:21] So here's a package,

[00:59:23] the idea I thought of.

[00:59:24] So you would put one of

[00:59:27] Laz, Cole, or Harry.

[00:59:29] You'd put an arm,

[00:59:30] and then you'd put a throw in.

[00:59:32] Three prospects.

[00:59:34] Okay.

[00:59:35] Probably feels about the ballpark.

[00:59:37] Yeah.

[00:59:39] So.

[00:59:39] It's just about if the Mariners would want to do it or not.

[00:59:41] Do they want the three years?

[00:59:42] Do they value the club control?

[00:59:44] Or do they want somebody else?

[00:59:45] Or if he's available.

[00:59:46] He's such a tweener.

[00:59:47] I read off all the names before.

[00:59:49] I'll just run through them again.

[00:59:50] Of the guys the Cardinals are looking to

[00:59:52] sort of trade away and restock

[00:59:53] and flush in a new core of their team.

[00:59:57] Ryan Helsley,

[00:59:58] Sonny Gray,

[00:59:59] Wilson Contreras,

[01:00:00] Eric Fetty,

[01:00:00] and Nolan Arenado.

[01:00:01] Those are all guys I think they would

[01:00:02] like to trade before they trade

[01:00:04] Brendan Donovan.

[01:00:05] Who could still be under contract

[01:00:07] by the time they're competitive again.

[01:00:09] That's the hurdle the Mariners

[01:00:10] are going to have to face.

[01:00:11] They're going to need to

[01:00:12] somehow weave around

[01:00:13] like,

[01:00:14] hey, we don't want these guys.

[01:00:16] We don't want these guys.

[01:00:17] They're kind of old.

[01:00:18] But we like Brendan Donovan.

[01:00:19] We'll pay a higher price for Brendan Donovan

[01:00:21] if you'll trade him to us.

[01:00:23] We've talked about Nolan

[01:00:24] at least in terms of the last couple weeks.

[01:00:27] It's not an awful idea,

[01:00:28] but there's complications there

[01:00:29] in terms of do you trust his age?

[01:00:31] He also has a no trade clause.

[01:00:32] Would he agree to go to Seattle?

[01:00:34] Yeah, Donovan makes a lot more sense

[01:00:36] for what the Mariners are looking for.

[01:00:38] Okay.

[01:00:39] TJ and I are about to get

[01:00:41] to our A-level guys.

[01:00:42] This is probably the highest upside guy

[01:00:45] and the player that would cost the most.

[01:00:48] But he'd be a hell of a fit in Seattle.

[01:00:51] That's Jordan Westberg.

[01:00:52] I don't know how many times

[01:00:54] we're going to beat into the ground

[01:00:55] the fact that the Mariners and Orioles

[01:00:57] are perfect trade partners.

[01:00:58] Orioles need pitching.

[01:00:59] Mariners need offense.

[01:01:00] We've talked about it time and time again.

[01:01:02] Everybody has.

[01:01:04] This feels like the guy

[01:01:05] that makes the most sense.

[01:01:07] Jordan Westberg

[01:01:08] has five years of club control.

[01:01:11] What did he do in his first year

[01:01:13] with his service clock ticking?

[01:01:15] Made the All-Star game.

[01:01:18] 125 WRC+.

[01:01:19] Really good bat.

[01:01:21] Nearly a three-win player

[01:01:22] in 107 games.

[01:01:24] He missed all of August

[01:01:25] and almost all of September

[01:01:26] because he had a fractured hand.

[01:01:29] Had he not done that,

[01:01:30] he's probably closer to three and a half

[01:01:32] or four in terms of his war.

[01:01:34] Really good player.

[01:01:35] Really controllable.

[01:01:37] Plays third base.

[01:01:38] Would be here a long time.

[01:01:40] But it's all about

[01:01:41] if the Mariners are okay

[01:01:44] giving up a starter

[01:01:45] to go get him.

[01:01:46] Because that's probably

[01:01:47] what it would cost.

[01:01:50] Which starter?

[01:01:53] You know, from a human side,

[01:01:54] you know what would suck

[01:01:55] if Bryce Miller was traded for him?

[01:01:57] Because those two are such close friends

[01:01:59] and grew up friends.

[01:01:59] If they were in a trade together

[01:02:01] and never actually got to play together,

[01:02:03] that would be too bad.

[01:02:05] It's a similar idea though

[01:02:06] because those two

[01:02:07] have the same amount of control.

[01:02:09] It is.

[01:02:10] I was going to ask if...

[01:02:13] You mean one was an All-Star

[01:02:15] and the other had an All-Star caliber season?

[01:02:18] Right.

[01:02:18] If you traded Logan Gilbert

[01:02:22] for Jordan Westberg,

[01:02:23] could you get more?

[01:02:25] Because Gilbert is a better arm at this point.

[01:02:28] Could you get Westberg

[01:02:29] and probably not somebody else

[01:02:31] off their big league roster,

[01:02:32] but one of their solid prospects too?

[01:02:34] You'd get a solid prospect

[01:02:36] and I don't think one of their top prospects.

[01:02:38] Because Westberg himself

[01:02:40] with the five years of control

[01:02:41] carries immense value.

[01:02:42] And Logan,

[01:02:44] even if you value him higher

[01:02:46] because starting pitching

[01:02:47] is valued higher than an infielder,

[01:02:49] only has three years of control left.

[01:02:51] Right.

[01:02:53] So it's interesting.

[01:02:54] You can make a case

[01:02:55] for a bunch of different guys

[01:02:56] to trade for Westberg.

[01:02:58] Could you trade Castillo for Westberg?

[01:03:00] Look, I think people,

[01:03:01] you included,

[01:03:02] are down on what you think

[01:03:04] the value of Luis Castillo is.

[01:03:05] Now, am I saying he's going to

[01:03:07] get you back Jordan Westberg?

[01:03:08] I don't know.

[01:03:09] The Orioles might say

[01:03:10] the age and the money

[01:03:12] isn't going to warrant you this.

[01:03:14] It's all about

[01:03:15] who is willing to trade what.

[01:03:17] But the Orioles, man,

[01:03:18] those guys need pitching.

[01:03:21] I don't think Corbin Burns

[01:03:22] is going back to Baltimore.

[01:03:23] If he doesn't,

[01:03:24] the Orioles' rotation

[01:03:25] for next year is what?

[01:03:27] You're talking about

[01:03:27] Grayson Rodriguez

[01:03:28] who showed flashes

[01:03:30] of being really good

[01:03:31] but also got injured

[01:03:32] and had his ups and downs.

[01:03:33] You're talking about

[01:03:34] Kyle Braddish

[01:03:35] who has been very good.

[01:03:37] Also is coming off

[01:03:38] an injury from last year.

[01:03:39] A decently serious one.

[01:03:41] After that,

[01:03:42] there's just not a lot

[01:03:43] and the Orioles

[01:03:44] don't have a ton

[01:03:44] of pitching prospects either.

[01:03:46] So they're either going to have

[01:03:47] to sign middling starters

[01:03:48] in free agency,

[01:03:49] pay a decent amount

[01:03:49] of money for them

[01:03:50] and hope they pan out

[01:03:51] the way that guys

[01:03:52] like Luis Severino

[01:03:53] and Sean Minaya

[01:03:53] did for the Mets this year

[01:03:54] or they have to go find

[01:03:56] real starting pitching.

[01:03:57] Luis Castillo

[01:03:58] is still real starting pitching.

[01:04:00] If the Mariners, again,

[01:04:01] took some of that money,

[01:04:03] doesn't have to be all of it,

[01:04:05] I think there's a world

[01:04:06] you can get back Jordan Westberg

[01:04:07] and that would be worth it

[01:04:08] for the Mariners

[01:04:09] because he hasn't hit arbitration

[01:04:10] for another couple years.

[01:04:11] So it's not that expensive

[01:04:13] on their books.

[01:04:16] Then that leaves us

[01:04:17] at the question of

[01:04:18] would Luis Castillo

[01:04:19] approve a trade there?

[01:04:20] Right.

[01:04:21] Because if not,

[01:04:21] you would need to wait

[01:04:22] another entire year

[01:04:23] to which you could trade

[01:04:25] Luis Castillo

[01:04:26] without him needing

[01:04:27] to approve it.

[01:04:28] Right.

[01:04:29] In which case,

[01:04:29] that improves your standing,

[01:04:30] actually.

[01:04:31] The best case scenario

[01:04:34] of trading Luis Castillo

[01:04:35] is he goes out this year

[01:04:36] in the Mariners rotation,

[01:04:38] has an awesome season,

[01:04:39] and then his no trade clause

[01:04:42] goes up in air,

[01:04:44] in thin air,

[01:04:44] on January 1st,

[01:04:46] 2026.

[01:04:47] Mm-hmm.

[01:04:48] Yeah, you're right.

[01:04:49] And then maybe

[01:04:50] an Orioles Mariners trade

[01:04:51] does happen that

[01:04:51] if one doesn't happen

[01:04:52] before then.

[01:04:53] Then I legitimately think

[01:04:55] you could get

[01:04:55] Jordan Westberg

[01:04:56] for Luis Castillo

[01:04:57] because you could then

[01:04:59] leverage Castillo

[01:05:00] to other teams.

[01:05:01] I've explained it before,

[01:05:02] but the no trade clause

[01:05:03] really pins you in

[01:05:05] where if a player says

[01:05:07] he's only willing

[01:05:08] to go to one team,

[01:05:09] then you have,

[01:05:10] the other team knows

[01:05:11] you have no leverage

[01:05:12] if you actually want

[01:05:13] to trade this player.

[01:05:14] Right.

[01:05:14] There's no other option

[01:05:15] to go to.

[01:05:16] Right.

[01:05:17] But,

[01:05:17] if you wait until next year,

[01:05:19] that won't be the case

[01:05:19] for Luis Castillo.

[01:05:20] Right now,

[01:05:22] honestly,

[01:05:22] I don't think

[01:05:23] you could get

[01:05:24] Jordan Westberg

[01:05:25] for Luis Castillo.

[01:05:26] You would need to send

[01:05:27] more things over

[01:05:28] on your sense.

[01:05:29] Right.

[01:05:30] But,

[01:05:30] it doesn't mean

[01:05:31] it doesn't make sense

[01:05:32] for the Mariners

[01:05:33] to try that.

[01:05:34] If Jordan Westberg

[01:05:34] is somehow on the block.

[01:05:36] Have we actually heard

[01:05:37] if he's on the block?

[01:05:39] No,

[01:05:40] the Orioles aren't going

[01:05:40] to openly shop him around.

[01:05:42] Why would they?

[01:05:43] But,

[01:05:44] Passant talked about it.

[01:05:45] He thought that's a guy

[01:05:46] that makes a lot of sense

[01:05:47] for the Mariners.

[01:05:47] He has openly put that out there.

[01:05:49] I've heard other people

[01:05:50] talk about it.

[01:05:51] It just feels like a guy

[01:05:53] that makes sense.

[01:05:53] Look,

[01:05:54] the Orioles have

[01:05:54] two third basemen.

[01:05:55] This is why this is

[01:05:56] getting talked about.

[01:05:57] And I'm sure if it was

[01:05:58] up to the Orioles,

[01:05:59] they'd probably rather

[01:06:00] trade Kobe Mayo

[01:06:01] because the guy's

[01:06:02] less proven.

[01:06:02] And I will say,

[01:06:03] Kobe Mayo

[01:06:04] was unreal

[01:06:06] in the minor leagues.

[01:06:07] The guy's gotten comps

[01:06:08] to Austin Riley.

[01:06:09] He has.

[01:06:10] He has that type of power

[01:06:11] in his game.

[01:06:13] He's like,

[01:06:13] that type of player

[01:06:15] can play first and third.

[01:06:16] I guess,

[01:06:16] I mean,

[01:06:17] Riley doesn't really play

[01:06:17] first,

[01:06:18] but still,

[01:06:19] that type of player.

[01:06:21] And he's intriguing.

[01:06:22] However,

[01:06:23] I don't think the Mariners

[01:06:24] are in a position

[01:06:26] where they can afford

[01:06:27] to be trading

[01:06:29] significant assets

[01:06:30] to get back somebody

[01:06:31] who's unproven.

[01:06:32] The only guy I'd sign off

[01:06:33] on that for

[01:06:33] is if he were going to

[01:06:34] trade for Jackson Holiday

[01:06:35] because you know

[01:06:36] that guy's ceiling

[01:06:37] might be he could win

[01:06:38] an MVP in a batting title.

[01:06:40] But for Mayo,

[01:06:42] no,

[01:06:42] I think you have to take

[01:06:43] the proven guy

[01:06:44] that's been an all-star

[01:06:44] in Westbrook

[01:06:45] and oh,

[01:06:45] by the way,

[01:06:46] has five years

[01:06:47] of club control

[01:06:48] compared to Mayo

[01:06:48] who would have six.

[01:06:50] So,

[01:06:51] last thing on

[01:06:52] Jordan Westberg,

[01:06:53] build me a trade package

[01:06:54] for him.

[01:06:56] Let's say,

[01:06:57] okay,

[01:06:57] I'll do this one first

[01:06:59] and then I'll try

[01:06:59] a different one afterwards.

[01:07:01] Say,

[01:07:02] Castillo approved

[01:07:02] a trade to Baltimore.

[01:07:03] Says,

[01:07:03] look,

[01:07:04] that's a team

[01:07:04] that's competitive.

[01:07:05] They're winning.

[01:07:06] Park's friendly

[01:07:06] enough for pitchers now.

[01:07:09] What if it was Castillo

[01:07:11] and then you throw

[01:07:12] in a couple prospects?

[01:07:13] Say it's Castillo

[01:07:15] and somebody,

[01:07:17] yeah,

[01:07:18] and that's six to ten range.

[01:07:19] What if it's Michael Arroyo?

[01:07:21] Okay.

[01:07:23] For Westbrook.

[01:07:23] Just those two?

[01:07:25] Sure.

[01:07:25] Let's say you get

[01:07:25] an infielder back

[01:07:26] and a guy that is,

[01:07:29] I don't know if you call him

[01:07:30] a top-end starting pitcher

[01:07:32] at this point.

[01:07:32] He can be that,

[01:07:33] but a very good

[01:07:34] big league starter.

[01:07:36] And let's say

[01:07:37] the Mariners eat

[01:07:38] half his contract

[01:07:39] because again,

[01:07:40] what does that do?

[01:07:41] What does that do to them

[01:07:42] for Westbrook?

[01:07:43] Because the guy's

[01:07:44] going to be totally

[01:07:44] inexpensive for two years.

[01:07:46] Right.

[01:07:46] Mariners save money anyway.

[01:07:48] Yeah.

[01:07:49] Right.

[01:07:49] So,

[01:07:50] yes.

[01:07:50] I think,

[01:07:51] I think the Orioles

[01:07:52] would do that.

[01:07:53] If there are somehow

[01:07:53] Orioles fans listening to this,

[01:07:55] please tell us

[01:07:55] if you would or not.

[01:07:57] So,

[01:07:57] Castillo

[01:07:58] and Michael Arroyo

[01:07:59] for Jordan Westbrook.

[01:08:01] Mm-hmm.

[01:08:01] Okay.

[01:08:02] Yeah.

[01:08:03] And yet another one.

[01:08:05] If they'd say no to that,

[01:08:06] then yes,

[01:08:07] you're probably going

[01:08:08] to have to trade

[01:08:09] one of the four starters

[01:08:10] you would get

[01:08:10] uncomfortable with trading.

[01:08:12] If,

[01:08:12] if I'm the Mariners,

[01:08:13] I don't know

[01:08:14] if they'd be

[01:08:15] that uncomfortable

[01:08:16] trading Luis Castillo.

[01:08:17] I'm not saying

[01:08:17] they want to do it,

[01:08:18] but I think

[01:08:19] they'd have

[01:08:20] a lot more nightmares

[01:08:21] about trading

[01:08:22] one of the other four

[01:08:23] than they would

[01:08:24] about Luis.

[01:08:27] Even if you trade

[01:08:28] one of those four

[01:08:29] and it's

[01:08:30] Westberg and

[01:08:31] Kerstad?

[01:08:32] Okay,

[01:08:33] if you were going

[01:08:34] to trade

[01:08:34] Logan Gilbert

[01:08:35] and you were going

[01:08:36] to get

[01:08:37] Jordan Westberg

[01:08:38] and Heston Kerstad

[01:08:39] back,

[01:08:41] I could buy

[01:08:41] into that.

[01:08:42] I mean,

[01:08:43] I'll tell you what,

[01:08:43] I don't know

[01:08:44] if the Orioles

[01:08:45] would do this

[01:08:45] because then

[01:08:45] they have

[01:08:46] no third baseman,

[01:08:46] but if you were

[01:08:47] going to trade

[01:08:47] Logan Gilbert

[01:08:48] for Jordan Westberg

[01:08:49] and Kobe Mayo,

[01:08:50] yeah,

[01:08:50] I'd do that

[01:08:51] because then

[01:08:51] you might have

[01:08:52] your corner

[01:08:53] infield of the future,

[01:08:55] but the Orioles

[01:08:56] might not want

[01:08:56] to trade

[01:08:56] two third basemen.

[01:08:57] So yeah,

[01:08:58] if it was going

[01:08:58] to be

[01:09:00] Westberg

[01:09:00] and it can't

[01:09:02] be Westberg

[01:09:02] and Kerstad,

[01:09:03] that'd be too much.

[01:09:03] The Orioles

[01:09:04] wouldn't do that.

[01:09:04] So Westberg

[01:09:06] and Kerstad,

[01:09:07] yeah,

[01:09:08] for Logan Gilbert,

[01:09:09] that's a pretty

[01:09:10] good package.

[01:09:11] It's in the ballpark.

[01:09:13] I don't know

[01:09:13] if Logan Gilbert

[01:09:14] would stay

[01:09:15] with the Orioles

[01:09:15] given that they

[01:09:16] couldn't work

[01:09:17] anything out

[01:09:17] with Corbin Burns,

[01:09:19] but you know,

[01:09:20] time would tell

[01:09:20] in that case

[01:09:21] and Logan

[01:09:22] doesn't have

[01:09:22] the luxury

[01:09:23] of having

[01:09:23] a no trade clause,

[01:09:24] so we'll see.

[01:09:26] But that's an option

[01:09:27] for the Mariners

[01:09:28] if Westberg

[01:09:29] is privately

[01:09:31] available

[01:09:31] and they could

[01:09:32] shop around

[01:09:33] this offseason

[01:09:33] and even though

[01:09:34] they say plan Z

[01:09:35] that there's

[01:09:36] no other way

[01:09:37] to upgrade their offense

[01:09:38] that's something

[01:09:39] they're going

[01:09:40] to have to do.

[01:09:40] Again,

[01:09:42] last quick thing

[01:09:43] before you get

[01:09:44] into your A-level guy.

[01:09:45] Of course,

[01:09:46] the Mariners say that.

[01:09:47] That has been

[01:09:47] their message

[01:09:48] in public

[01:09:50] forever now.

[01:09:51] Why on earth

[01:09:52] would you go out

[01:09:53] and talk about,

[01:09:53] yes,

[01:09:53] we'll look at all options,

[01:09:55] we'll think about

[01:09:55] trading a pitcher?

[01:09:56] That tanks the value.

[01:09:57] The Mariners don't want

[01:09:58] to be shopping pitchers

[01:09:59] around.

[01:10:00] They know if they

[01:10:00] don't do that,

[01:10:01] they can jack up

[01:10:08] or just against

[01:10:09] talking about it

[01:10:09] publicly to the media.

[01:10:12] My A-level option

[01:10:14] is Devin Williams

[01:10:15] from the Milwaukee Brewers.

[01:10:18] You probably saw him

[01:10:19] this postseason

[01:10:20] when he gave up

[01:10:20] the go-ahead home run

[01:10:21] to Pete Alonso.

[01:10:22] So that memory,

[01:10:25] that memory doesn't

[01:10:26] feel great for you.

[01:10:27] Let me try and sell you

[01:10:29] otherwise.

[01:10:30] Let me also note

[01:10:31] that this would be

[01:10:32] totally out of line

[01:10:33] for how the Mariners

[01:10:35] operate.

[01:10:36] They don't pay

[01:10:37] relievers

[01:10:37] and then they don't

[01:10:38] trade for highly

[01:10:40] paid relievers

[01:10:41] which would need

[01:10:42] to happen to acquire

[01:10:43] Devin Williams.

[01:10:45] I think it would be

[01:10:46] worth it in this case

[01:10:47] though and I think

[01:10:47] this has a chance

[01:10:48] to make as big an

[01:10:49] impact on the Mariners

[01:10:50] offseason as any

[01:10:51] bat could.

[01:10:52] Because what's one

[01:10:54] thing we know for certain

[01:10:55] about this Mariners

[01:10:56] team this past season,

[01:10:57] Lyle,

[01:10:57] is that for as good

[01:10:58] as the pitching was,

[01:11:00] they got victimized

[01:11:02] in the 6th,

[01:11:03] 7th,

[01:11:03] and 8th innings

[01:11:04] this year.

[01:11:05] More specifically

[01:11:05] the 7th and the

[01:11:06] 8th innings.

[01:11:07] They had a higher

[01:11:08] ERA this year

[01:11:09] in the 7th

[01:11:10] and 8th innings

[01:11:11] than they did

[01:11:12] in any other

[01:11:13] inning this season.

[01:11:15] Why is that?

[01:11:16] Well in the 7th

[01:11:17] and 8th inning

[01:11:17] that's usually

[01:11:18] about when the

[01:11:19] starters would come

[01:11:20] out and the

[01:11:21] first wave of

[01:11:22] bullpen arms

[01:11:22] would come in.

[01:11:23] It wouldn't be

[01:11:24] Andres Munoz

[01:11:25] most of the time,

[01:11:26] it would be the

[01:11:27] guys in the

[01:11:27] middle of the

[01:11:28] bullpen before

[01:11:28] Munoz would

[01:11:29] pitch at the

[01:11:30] back end of the

[01:11:31] 8th inning

[01:11:31] to the 9th inning.

[01:11:33] And the Mariners

[01:11:34] would struggle in the

[01:11:36] 7th and the

[01:11:36] 8th inning

[01:11:37] because the

[01:11:37] caliber of arm

[01:11:39] at that point

[01:11:40] and how those

[01:11:40] guys were pitching

[01:11:41] this season

[01:11:41] was frankly

[01:11:42] not good enough.

[01:11:43] You went into

[01:11:43] this year expecting

[01:11:44] you would have

[01:11:45] Santos,

[01:11:45] you would have

[01:11:46] Brash,

[01:11:46] you would have

[01:11:46] Munoz,

[01:11:47] and to some

[01:11:48] extent that you

[01:11:48] would have

[01:11:49] Ryan Stanek

[01:11:50] to cover those

[01:11:50] innings

[01:11:50] and be dominant.

[01:11:52] Well they

[01:11:53] weren't.

[01:11:53] The only guy

[01:11:54] surviving in that

[01:11:54] group at the

[01:11:55] end of the

[01:11:55] year was

[01:11:56] Andres Munoz.

[01:11:58] You need

[01:11:59] another guy to

[01:12:00] help bridge that

[01:12:01] gap to win

[01:12:01] baseball games.

[01:12:02] And Devin

[01:12:03] Williams at a

[01:12:04] 10.5 million

[01:12:05] dollar price tag

[01:12:06] which is crazy

[01:12:08] for thinking

[01:12:09] what the Mariners

[01:12:09] would spend their

[01:12:10] money on this

[01:12:10] offseason.

[01:12:11] 10.5 million

[01:12:12] dollars for a

[01:12:12] reliever but it's

[01:12:14] going to help

[01:12:14] win them games

[01:12:15] if they go out

[01:12:16] and do it.

[01:12:17] Devin Williams

[01:12:18] has a career

[01:12:19] 1-8-3

[01:12:23] ERA.

[01:12:23] Career.

[01:12:25] He's been in

[01:12:25] the league since

[01:12:26] 2020 I believe.

[01:12:29] 1-8-3 ERA.

[01:12:31] He strikes out

[01:12:32] over 14

[01:12:33] batters per

[01:12:34] nine.

[01:12:35] This guy has

[01:12:36] been one of

[01:12:36] the game's

[01:12:37] elite of elite

[01:12:38] relievers since

[01:12:39] he stepped foot

[01:12:40] on a big league

[01:12:41] mound.

[01:12:41] And I'll tell

[01:12:42] you what.

[01:12:43] If the Mariners

[01:12:45] are not going to

[01:12:45] shell out

[01:12:46] the capital

[01:12:47] in a trade

[01:12:48] or the money

[01:12:49] to go get

[01:12:50] high level

[01:12:51] bats to change

[01:12:52] this team

[01:12:52] and they're really

[01:12:53] going to win

[01:12:54] through pitching

[01:12:54] and defense

[01:12:55] then doing

[01:12:56] something like

[01:12:56] trading for

[01:12:57] Nico Horner

[01:12:57] to play second

[01:12:58] base and

[01:12:59] trading for

[01:12:59] Devin Williams

[01:13:01] is an option

[01:13:02] that makes a lot

[01:13:03] of sense.

[01:13:04] Hell, I'll even

[01:13:04] take it a step

[01:13:05] crazier.

[01:13:06] Trading for

[01:13:06] and extending

[01:13:07] Devin Williams

[01:13:10] because this

[01:13:11] guy is one of

[01:13:11] the game's

[01:13:11] elite closers.

[01:13:12] He is.

[01:13:13] He does not

[01:13:14] get hit.

[01:13:14] He is absolutely

[01:13:15] unreal.

[01:13:15] He has

[01:13:16] if the Mariners

[01:13:17] acquired Devin

[01:13:18] Williams, the

[01:13:19] two best pitches

[01:13:20] in all of

[01:13:21] baseball would be

[01:13:22] in the Seattle

[01:13:22] Mariners bullpen.

[01:13:23] Devin Williams

[01:13:24] changeup, which

[01:13:25] has been nicknamed

[01:13:26] the airbender by

[01:13:27] friend of the

[01:13:27] show, Rob

[01:13:28] Friedman, the

[01:13:28] pitching ninja

[01:13:29] and Matt

[01:13:30] Brash's slider.

[01:13:30] You would have a

[01:13:32] bullpen that

[01:13:33] would consist of

[01:13:34] if all healthy

[01:13:35] Andres Munoz,

[01:13:37] Devin Williams,

[01:13:38] Matt Brash,

[01:13:39] and Gregory

[01:13:39] Santos.

[01:13:40] There is no

[01:13:43] quadrant of

[01:13:44] players.

[01:13:45] No, no

[01:13:46] foursome of

[01:13:47] relievers that

[01:13:49] is better in

[01:13:49] baseball than

[01:13:49] that if

[01:13:50] everybody's

[01:13:50] healthy.

[01:13:51] No way.

[01:13:52] That is how

[01:13:53] the Mariners

[01:13:53] could win

[01:13:54] games by that

[01:13:54] formula.

[01:13:56] It's enticing.

[01:13:57] He has only

[01:13:58] had an ERA

[01:13:59] over two

[01:14:01] once in his

[01:14:03] career.

[01:14:03] Over two!

[01:14:05] That's insane.

[01:14:06] I recommend you

[01:14:07] guys go look up

[01:14:08] compilations of

[01:14:09] his changeup if

[01:14:10] you're not

[01:14:10] familiar.

[01:14:11] It is one of

[01:14:12] the most unique

[01:14:13] pitches I think

[01:14:14] I've ever seen.

[01:14:16] Changeups aren't

[01:14:17] supposed to spin,

[01:14:18] but his changeup

[01:14:19] actually spins a

[01:14:20] lot.

[01:14:20] And it is

[01:14:21] really, really

[01:14:23] effective.

[01:14:23] His fastball,

[01:14:24] which is in the

[01:14:24] upper 90s, has

[01:14:26] also come along

[01:14:27] quite a lot in

[01:14:28] his career.

[01:14:29] It used to be a

[01:14:30] pitch that got hit

[01:14:31] pretty hard.

[01:14:32] Recently, has

[01:14:33] gotten hit very

[01:14:34] hard the last

[01:14:34] three years.

[01:14:35] He is as

[01:14:37] ideal an

[01:14:38] addition you can

[01:14:39] put in the

[01:14:39] bullpen.

[01:14:40] There's no

[01:14:41] skirting around

[01:14:42] the edges like

[01:14:44] they did with

[01:14:44] Ryan Stanek, who

[01:14:45] was still available

[01:14:46] in spring training

[01:14:48] and had had only

[01:14:49] one really great

[01:14:50] season in his

[01:14:51] career.

[01:14:53] Devin Williams

[01:14:54] has been

[01:14:56] unbelievable every

[01:14:57] season of his

[01:14:57] career.

[01:14:58] And lucky for

[01:14:59] them, the

[01:15:00] Brewers have

[01:15:01] already set a

[01:15:02] precedent that

[01:15:03] they are

[01:15:03] willing to

[01:15:04] trade an

[01:15:05] impending free

[01:15:06] agent star

[01:15:07] reliever on

[01:15:08] their roster,

[01:15:09] like they did

[01:15:09] for Josh

[01:15:10] Hader in

[01:15:10] 2022.

[01:15:11] Now, I

[01:15:12] expect them to

[01:15:13] do the same

[01:15:14] thing for

[01:15:14] Devin

[01:15:14] Williams.

[01:15:15] I think the

[01:15:16] Mariners would

[01:15:16] be foolish to

[01:15:17] not be in on

[01:15:18] Devin Williams

[01:15:19] if they really

[01:15:20] think they have

[01:15:20] the pieces to

[01:15:21] acquire him.

[01:15:22] I know that

[01:15:23] Jerry, I know

[01:15:24] you don't

[01:15:26] believe in

[01:15:26] paying relievers

[01:15:27] a lot of

[01:15:28] money.

[01:15:28] I know you

[01:15:29] believe in

[01:15:29] your development

[01:15:30] of pitchers.

[01:15:31] I know you

[01:15:32] believe in your

[01:15:33] ability to find

[01:15:33] these waiver

[01:15:34] claim guys who

[01:15:36] come to your

[01:15:36] bullpen and are

[01:15:37] unbelievable.

[01:15:38] The Justin

[01:15:38] Topas, the

[01:15:39] Gabe Spires, the

[01:15:40] Taylor Saucedos,

[01:15:41] the Drew

[01:15:41] Steckenwriters, the

[01:15:42] Paul Seawolds,

[01:15:43] and on and on

[01:15:43] and on.

[01:15:45] But Devin

[01:15:46] Williams is

[01:15:46] available.

[01:15:48] And man, I

[01:15:49] don't want to

[01:15:50] see this team go

[01:15:51] through another

[01:15:51] season where

[01:15:53] they're blown

[01:15:53] games in the

[01:15:54] eighth inning and

[01:15:55] costing this

[01:15:56] unbelievable

[01:15:57] rotation wins.

[01:15:59] Devin Williams

[01:16:00] helps.

[01:16:01] If those guys

[01:16:02] all did what

[01:16:03] they did in the

[01:16:04] Mariners bullpen,

[01:16:05] guys who you

[01:16:05] basically found

[01:16:06] off the street

[01:16:06] and turned into

[01:16:07] stars, if you

[01:16:09] can do that with

[01:16:09] guys like that in

[01:16:10] terms of your

[01:16:10] pitching development

[01:16:11] and how you

[01:16:12] develop bullpen arms,

[01:16:13] what could you

[01:16:14] do with Devin

[01:16:15] Williams?

[01:16:16] The guy who I

[01:16:17] would call the

[01:16:18] second best

[01:16:19] reliever in all of

[01:16:20] baseball behind

[01:16:21] Emmanuel Class A.

[01:16:23] When he is

[01:16:23] healthy, he is

[01:16:24] that.

[01:16:24] He has been the

[01:16:25] best reliever in

[01:16:25] the National

[01:16:26] League for a

[01:16:26] long time and

[01:16:28] at his best,

[01:16:29] again, with

[01:16:30] Emmanuel Class A.

[01:16:31] You can argue

[01:16:32] for somebody like

[01:16:32] Felix Batista

[01:16:33] when he's healthy.

[01:16:34] You can argue

[01:16:34] about Mason

[01:16:34] Miller.

[01:16:35] You can argue

[01:16:35] some others.

[01:16:37] You can argue

[01:16:37] on Andres Munoz

[01:16:38] when he's at his

[01:16:39] best.

[01:16:40] Devin

[01:16:41] Williams, man

[01:16:42] oh man.

[01:16:43] So I've got two

[01:16:43] things to say.

[01:16:45] Number one is a

[01:16:47] statement.

[01:16:47] Number two is a

[01:16:48] question.

[01:16:49] When Matt Brash

[01:16:50] got his Tommy

[01:16:50] John surgery,

[01:16:51] Hollander said

[01:16:52] 12 months is

[01:16:53] roughly the

[01:16:54] estimated timetable

[01:16:55] for return.

[01:16:56] You think, okay,

[01:16:57] got the Tommy

[01:16:57] John at the end

[01:16:58] of May, early

[01:16:59] June.

[01:16:59] He'd be back

[01:17:00] around that time

[01:17:01] if he needs

[01:17:01] some more length

[01:17:03] to build back

[01:17:03] up.

[01:17:04] Maybe it's

[01:17:04] closer to the

[01:17:05] All-Star break.

[01:17:06] All of a sudden,

[01:17:08] Justin Hollander's

[01:17:09] talking this week

[01:17:09] that Brash is doing

[01:17:11] great, progressing,

[01:17:12] and we could see

[01:17:13] him back by

[01:17:14] late April.

[01:17:16] So then all of a

[01:17:17] sudden, you've got

[01:17:20] that set of four

[01:17:22] guys in your

[01:17:22] bullpen for

[01:17:24] basically the whole

[01:17:25] year.

[01:17:25] You don't have to

[01:17:26] wait around for

[01:17:27] Matt Brash.

[01:17:27] Apparently he's

[01:17:28] progressing great

[01:17:29] and I'll remind

[01:17:30] people, the reason it

[01:17:31] doesn't take relievers

[01:17:32] as long to recover

[01:17:33] from Tommy John as

[01:17:34] starters is because

[01:17:35] they don't have to

[01:17:35] build back up as

[01:17:36] much.

[01:17:36] They go all out for

[01:17:37] one inning and

[01:17:39] that's their job.

[01:17:41] Man, since we

[01:17:42] threw this idea

[01:17:43] out there and

[01:17:43] saw Devin

[01:17:44] Williams was

[01:17:45] available a couple

[01:17:45] weeks ago, I've

[01:17:47] been thinking about

[01:17:47] what that bullpen

[01:17:48] could look like with

[01:17:49] those four guys.

[01:17:50] And yes, Santos

[01:17:51] has to stay

[01:17:51] healthy, but man,

[01:17:53] that would be

[01:17:54] pretty cool.

[01:17:55] Number two is a

[01:17:57] question for you

[01:17:57] and circling back

[01:17:58] to something I said

[01:17:59] a minute ago.

[01:18:00] Am I crazy for

[01:18:01] saying that if you

[01:18:02] trade for Devin

[01:18:03] Williams, he's an

[01:18:04] extension candidate?

[01:18:07] At what number?

[01:18:10] I'm not talking a

[01:18:11] 10-year deal.

[01:18:13] Five?

[01:18:14] Five for

[01:18:16] 10 million a year?

[01:18:17] I don't think the

[01:18:18] Mariners would extend

[01:18:19] Devin Williams if they

[01:18:19] trade for him.

[01:18:21] Based on all of

[01:18:22] their needs and

[01:18:23] their self-imposed

[01:18:26] budgetary decisions,

[01:18:27] I don't think

[01:18:28] they have the

[01:18:30] ability to pay a

[01:18:31] reliever.

[01:18:32] It's going to be

[01:18:33] $20 million a year,

[01:18:34] I think is what

[01:18:35] he'll ask for.

[01:18:36] Oh, yeah.

[01:18:36] Okay, I probably

[01:18:37] said it way too

[01:18:38] low.

[01:18:38] What am I saying?

[01:18:38] $10 million, $50

[01:18:39] million total on a

[01:18:40] five-year deal?

[01:18:41] No.

[01:18:41] Haters making what,

[01:18:42] 18?

[01:18:43] He's going to want

[01:18:43] more than that.

[01:18:44] He'd ask for what

[01:18:45] Edwin Diaz got,

[01:18:46] which was five for

[01:18:46] 100.

[01:18:47] Yeah.

[01:18:47] And the Mariners

[01:18:48] cannot afford

[01:18:49] that.

[01:18:50] Yeah.

[01:18:52] Unfortunate.

[01:18:53] But who would you

[01:18:53] trade for?

[01:18:54] His trade package

[01:18:55] really is not going

[01:18:55] to be that much.

[01:18:57] The Brewers are

[01:18:58] cheaper than the

[01:18:59] Mariners are.

[01:19:00] That $10.5 million

[01:19:01] they want to take

[01:19:02] off their books for

[01:19:02] this year and the

[01:19:04] impending future

[01:19:06] value of what he

[01:19:06] would cost in the

[01:19:07] future.

[01:19:09] So it wouldn't cost

[01:19:10] you an arm and a

[01:19:11] leg to acquire him

[01:19:13] to get him on this

[01:19:13] Mariners roster.

[01:19:15] And I really think

[01:19:16] he'd like pitching in

[01:19:17] T-Mobile Park.

[01:19:17] I mean, who

[01:19:17] wouldn't?

[01:19:18] It's your walk year,

[01:19:19] Devin.

[01:19:20] Don't you want the

[01:19:20] best possible

[01:19:21] pitching environment?

[01:19:25] Yeah, you do.

[01:19:26] And as good as

[01:19:27] Devin Williams is in

[01:19:28] terms of his value in

[01:19:29] a trade package,

[01:19:30] you're right.

[01:19:30] He is a relief

[01:19:31] pitcher.

[01:19:32] He throws one

[01:19:32] inning a night with

[01:19:34] a year left on his

[01:19:35] contract.

[01:19:36] You're right.

[01:19:36] He is not going to

[01:19:37] cost the world.

[01:19:37] None of your top

[01:19:38] prospects are going

[01:19:39] anywhere.

[01:19:40] Maybe none of your

[01:19:41] next wave of prospects

[01:19:42] after that are going

[01:19:43] anywhere for all we

[01:19:43] know.

[01:19:44] I don't think it's

[01:19:46] going to cost all

[01:19:47] that much to acquire

[01:19:48] the guy.

[01:19:48] Maybe the Brewers

[01:19:50] would want somebody on

[01:19:51] the big league roster.

[01:19:52] Maybe it would be

[01:19:53] somebody that, you

[01:19:55] know, is not a huge

[01:19:56] difference maker, but

[01:19:58] that's a big leaguer

[01:19:59] and a prospect.

[01:20:00] Could be something

[01:20:01] like that.

[01:20:02] What if, you know,

[01:20:03] what if, what if it

[01:20:04] was somebody like a

[01:20:07] decent ended prospect,

[01:20:08] somebody in that top

[01:20:09] 12 range and Dom

[01:20:11] Canzone who's

[01:20:11] controllable?

[01:20:13] Sure.

[01:20:15] Yeah.

[01:20:15] That'd be great for

[01:20:16] Dom.

[01:20:16] He gets to go hit in

[01:20:17] that book, that

[01:20:17] bam box.

[01:20:18] Right.

[01:20:19] Right.

[01:20:20] Just an idea.

[01:20:23] So sitting here and

[01:20:23] thinking about our

[01:20:24] list, I count four

[01:20:26] out of these six guys

[01:20:27] is available.

[01:20:29] Like as real, sorry,

[01:20:31] actually, you know,

[01:20:31] I will say half of

[01:20:32] these guys are very

[01:20:34] realistic this off

[01:20:35] season for the

[01:20:35] Mariners.

[01:20:36] I think Devin

[01:20:37] Williams is very

[01:20:37] realistic and he's

[01:20:39] notedly available.

[01:20:40] Nico Horner, I

[01:20:41] think is available

[01:20:43] and Alec

[01:20:44] Boehm's available.

[01:20:45] Like those three, I

[01:20:46] think we know for

[01:20:47] sure are on the

[01:20:49] block and are

[01:20:50] almost certainly

[01:20:51] getting traded this

[01:20:51] off season.

[01:20:52] The other three, I

[01:20:54] don't know if we can

[01:20:54] say it for certain,

[01:20:55] but think about this

[01:20:56] guys as you go into

[01:20:58] your weekend, like

[01:21:00] those are three names

[01:21:01] that would greatly

[01:21:02] impact the Mariners

[01:21:03] that are easily

[01:21:04] available.

[01:21:05] It wouldn't cost you

[01:21:07] an arm and a

[01:21:07] leg.

[01:21:08] Right.

[01:21:09] So no, no, it is

[01:21:10] possibility.

[01:21:10] If, if you are down

[01:21:12] on the Mariners,

[01:21:13] which they've given

[01:21:14] you every, every

[01:21:15] reason to this

[01:21:16] off season and hope

[01:21:19] feels bleak in the

[01:21:20] future, these guys

[01:21:22] we listed that

[01:21:24] aren't going to

[01:21:25] cost you your

[01:21:25] future, that can

[01:21:27] make an impact on

[01:21:28] this team in the

[01:21:29] future.

[01:21:30] And really you

[01:21:31] don't get to spring

[01:21:32] training next year

[01:21:33] and be like,

[01:21:33] eh.

[01:21:35] Right.

[01:21:36] Yeah.

[01:21:36] You'd be fired up

[01:21:37] about it.

[01:21:38] If you had an

[01:21:39] off season where

[01:21:39] you traded for

[01:21:40] Horner, traded for

[01:21:41] Boehm, traded for

[01:21:42] Devin Williams, I'm

[01:21:43] not saying all those

[01:21:44] things are going to

[01:21:44] happen, but if that

[01:21:45] was your off season,

[01:21:46] I'd be excited about

[01:21:47] it.

[01:21:47] I think a lot of

[01:21:48] people would be

[01:21:48] excited about it.

[01:21:50] There'd be some real

[01:21:51] spots that were filled

[01:21:52] that people were

[01:21:52] worried about like

[01:21:53] second and third

[01:21:53] base.

[01:21:54] Yeah, you're right.

[01:21:55] Three of these guys

[01:21:56] are almost certainly

[01:21:56] available.

[01:21:57] Westbrook.

[01:21:58] We don't know

[01:21:58] Donovan.

[01:21:59] We don't know

[01:21:59] but Shett we'll

[01:22:00] see probably more

[01:22:01] likely than the

[01:22:01] first two I named

[01:22:02] in Westbrook and

[01:22:03] Donovan, but it's

[01:22:05] going to be

[01:22:05] interesting.

[01:22:05] There are guys out

[01:22:06] there that can make

[01:22:07] this team better that

[01:22:08] will be available.

[01:22:09] So what the Mariners

[01:22:09] choose to do, we're

[01:22:11] going to find out.

[01:22:12] This was TJ and I's

[01:22:13] wish list.

[01:22:13] As always, if you've

[01:22:15] got your own wish list,

[01:22:16] if you've got ideas,

[01:22:17] you guys know what to

[01:22:18] do.

[01:22:18] Drop them in the

[01:22:19] comments on YouTube.

[01:22:20] We want to hear from

[01:22:20] you guys.

[01:22:20] We want to hear your

[01:22:21] ideas.

[01:22:22] These are just ours.

[01:22:23] You guys may have

[01:22:23] some awesome ideas

[01:22:24] too.

[01:22:25] In fact, I know you

[01:22:26] do.

[01:22:26] So tell us what

[01:22:26] they are when you

[01:22:28] drop them in the

[01:22:28] comments.

[01:22:29] All right.

[01:22:30] I think that just

[01:22:31] about wraps up this

[01:22:32] edition of the Marine

[01:22:32] Layer Podcast.

[01:22:33] You guys know the

[01:22:34] drill.

[01:22:34] You want to listen to

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[01:22:38] Make sure if you're

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[01:22:42] stars.

[01:22:42] Again, you really do

[01:22:43] us a big favor if you

[01:22:44] do that.

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[01:22:58] Marine Layer Pod.

[01:22:59] That's TJ.

[01:23:00] I'm Lyle.

[01:23:01] As always, we thank

[01:23:02] you guys for tuning

[01:23:02] in.

[01:23:03] We'll talk to you soon.