Episode 184: Is A Cal Raleigh Extension Imminent?

[00:00:00] Welcome to episode number 184 of the Marine Layer Podcast. Cal Raleigh has a new agent. How does that affect his future with the Mariners? The Mariners also acquire old friend Austin Shenton. This week from the race, we have a couple of new notes on the Mariners TV situation in 2025 and we'll wrap it up with two Mariners fresh onto the Baseball Hall of Fame ballot.

[00:00:21] This show is brought to you by our friends over at Pogaccia's Pub 85. That's over in Kirkland. You want to go watch some games with holiday season coming up, with November in full swing, December. You know you've got football, you've got basketball, you've got hockey. You can do all of that over there. There's 20 TVs in that place. There's awesome food. And if you want good drink specials, in fact, I'll say it, great drink specials, that's your place to go because happy hour drinks are $3 and $4 every Monday through Friday from $2 to $6.

[00:00:50] p.m. So if you're interested in good drinks for a really awesome price, fun time with your friends, place to watch sports, place to see some awesome food, all of that is over at Pogaccia's Pub 85 in Kirkland. And here's your guys' reminder before we start the show. Do us a big favor. If you're listening to these podcasts, please go download these episodes, rate and review, leave it five stars. It helps us get out there a bunch. If you're watching on YouTube, hit that subscribe button. The best way you can support us truly is hitting that subscribe button. Like, comment if you're on YouTube as well.

[00:01:20] And if you're on social media, you can find us on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube shorts, and blue sky at MarineLayerPod.

[00:01:28] Let's get it rolling.

[00:01:43] And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network, recording on Thursday evening, November 21st. Some breaking news from earlier today that Mariners catcher Cal Raleigh has a new agent. So I will present this message to you to start this podcast.

[00:02:03] Mariners fans, how does it feel to get a win over Scott Boris?

[00:02:08] Scott Boris likes putting these stupid quotes out there. I've got a quote for you, Scott Boris. As I said in our social post, you just got dumped by the big dumper.

[00:02:22] This is probably going to be on the Mount Rushmore best Mariners news this offseason.

[00:02:27] You know, and that line of mine isn't original. The Mariners are the creators of that.

[00:02:33] They were like, did you ever see those segments during the year? You weren't at that many games where they were doing on the Jumbotron, the whole you got dumped by the big dumper thing.

[00:02:39] I've seen those.

[00:02:41] Well, I think instead of picking random fans to give them messages to, I think if they really want good content for the Jumbotron, they should have Cal do that this season.

[00:02:52] But he leaves a message for Scott Boris saying, hey, we just got dumped by the...

[00:02:56] Well, that would be after they sign him to an extension.

[00:02:58] So they sign him to the extension, knowing that Scott Boris was the ultimate roadblock to getting an extension done.

[00:03:04] So on opening day, they throw that in, I don't know, the seventh inning.

[00:03:09] That would be great.

[00:03:10] Hey, Scott, it's Cal.

[00:03:11] You've been dumped by the big dumper.

[00:03:15] This is great news, though.

[00:03:17] And as you put it in your social post, go check it out on all of our social media channels, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, Blue Sky.

[00:03:25] If you're on Blue Sky now, you can find us there as well.

[00:03:28] So go check us out over there as well, where all of our stuff is now being posted.

[00:03:33] But Cal did change...

[00:03:36] So let's be somewhat serious here for a second.

[00:03:39] So he changed agents.

[00:03:40] He moved over from Boris Corp to now XL Sports Management.

[00:03:46] We've talked a lot about the reputation of Scott Boris, of him not letting guys...

[00:03:51] More often than not, not letting guys sign extensions and wanting for them to get out on the open market

[00:03:56] so he can get the maximum return for himself and his company,

[00:04:00] and the players can get the maximum return on the open market

[00:04:03] when it comes to a free market, free agent contract, essentially.

[00:04:08] Now, did Cal Raleigh 100% change his agent because of Scott Boris blocking an extension?

[00:04:17] I can't answer that.

[00:04:19] That's all speculation.

[00:04:20] But what I will say, Lyle, is I do think the extension played at least somewhat of a part of this decision for Cal Raleigh.

[00:04:28] And if he felt like Scott Boris had his best interest in mind...

[00:04:32] Because this isn't now a one-off for Scott Boris when it comes to getting dumped.

[00:04:36] It's happened to him a lot recently.

[00:04:39] Yeah.

[00:04:40] Look at what happened last offseason.

[00:04:42] You have to wonder if that's playing a factor.

[00:04:45] Is it all that?

[00:04:47] Is it all the fact of Cal potentially wanting an extension in Seattle?

[00:04:51] No, there's probably factors of multiple areas that all kind of, you know, feed into this.

[00:04:59] But you have to wonder if the extension's part of it.

[00:05:02] We can get to that more in a minute here.

[00:05:04] But the Boris thing is real.

[00:05:07] How much did we talk about it last offseason?

[00:05:09] He failed.

[00:05:10] He had an atrocious offseason.

[00:05:11] He got absolutely cooked.

[00:05:12] He didn't get Blake Snell's money.

[00:05:14] He didn't get Montgomery his money.

[00:05:15] He originally did not get Matt Chapman his money.

[00:05:17] All these guys that he overplayed his hand for and then finally got told no by the rest of the league.

[00:05:24] The rest of the league told Scott Boris finally, we're not doing this with you anymore.

[00:05:29] Is Juan Soto going to get a $600 plus million?

[00:05:31] Yeah.

[00:05:31] He's an outlier.

[00:05:32] We're not doing this with all your clients anymore.

[00:05:35] And now Montgomery's not a Boris guy anymore.

[00:05:39] Snell's going back into free agency this year.

[00:05:41] We'll see what his market looks like.

[00:05:42] And yeah, there was real talk last winter about is this the start of the fall of the Boris empire?

[00:05:49] Is this finally the beginning of the end?

[00:05:51] Are we seeing this thing finally crumble?

[00:05:53] And I don't know if that was Cal's reasoning or not.

[00:05:56] You have to wonder if that's part of it.

[00:05:58] Especially now.

[00:05:59] Look at the reports that just came out over the last week.

[00:06:01] You had Alex Bregman and Scott Boris get some message out there saying, yeah, we're expecting to get a 11-year $350 million contract.

[00:06:10] If you're Cal Raleigh and you see that and think to yourself, well, he's not getting that.

[00:06:14] Scott Boris is way over playing his hand again.

[00:06:16] Maybe all this combined was a tipping point for him.

[00:06:19] Cal saying, how can I even trust this guy to get me to free agency and get me paid?

[00:06:24] If he's not going to consider an extension for me in my best interest, how do I know he has my best interest once we hit the open market three years from now?

[00:06:35] I don't know if that's a risk I want.

[00:06:37] I want to see all of these options.

[00:06:40] Now, Scott and Cal could definitely sit at the table and talk to the Mariners about an extension.

[00:06:45] It is a two-sided thing.

[00:06:47] Remember that agents always work for the players.

[00:06:50] Players don't work for the agents.

[00:06:52] So ultimately, it's Cal's call whether or not to sign those deals or not.

[00:06:57] But Cal's not going to be the one directly negotiating with the Mariners.

[00:07:00] It's going to be whoever his agent is.

[00:07:02] And now it's going to be Excel Sports Management.

[00:07:04] So the pressure, I think, Lyle, in this case, has shifted away from Cal's side of this

[00:07:11] and whether or not Scott Boris would consider something like this.

[00:07:15] And now it's going to be shifted onto the Mariners to get something done.

[00:07:19] You're going away from the agency that doesn't really sign extensions to a management that is more likely to sign extensions in-house.

[00:07:28] So now it's up to the Mariners to give fair market value for Cal Raleigh.

[00:07:32] Because if Cal still doesn't see a number he likes from the Mariners, he's not signing that deal.

[00:07:39] Because someone would pay him that money.

[00:07:42] Yes.

[00:07:43] Yeah, this is not locking in a Cal Raleigh extension.

[00:07:46] I would say it helps.

[00:07:47] Not having Scott Boris as your agent anymore certainly helps, considering how rarely you see those guys sign extensions.

[00:07:54] The fact Matt Chapman signed one was pretty eye-opening.

[00:07:57] And I think that might have had more to do with the fact that that was where Chapman wanted to play anyway.

[00:08:02] And they got him what he thought was a fair deal.

[00:08:05] So yes, the ball's in the Mariners' court now.

[00:08:08] If they were going to try to use the excuse of who Cal's agent was and trying to get him paid and it being too hard to negotiate, not anymore.

[00:08:17] Excel Sports Management is not known for refusing to let players sign extensions before they hit free agency.

[00:08:23] That doesn't mean they're not going to get Cal paid well and paid fairly.

[00:08:27] But they should be more open to the idea than Boris probably was.

[00:08:31] So yes, this is on the Mariners.

[00:08:32] Give the guy what he's worth.

[00:08:34] What do we hear Jack say when he was on the podcast with us a few weeks ago?

[00:08:37] Jack McMullen of Just Baseball.

[00:08:38] What have we heard all these people say?

[00:08:40] Hey, this is one of the best catchers in baseball.

[00:08:43] Don't mess around with this.

[00:08:44] And don't think that because you have certain guys in the minors that you can just get away with not paying him.

[00:08:49] And don't think you're just going to find another guy like this either.

[00:08:52] 30-plus home runs, handles the best staff in baseball, platinum glove, plays every game nearly.

[00:08:59] You don't find guys like this.

[00:09:02] It would be a pretty big disservice if you don't get this guy paid.

[00:09:05] Especially because to find great catchers in baseball, it's not easy.

[00:09:10] No, I agree.

[00:09:11] There is a question the Mariners are going to have to ask themselves when it comes to these negotiations.

[00:09:17] Actually, it could be a couple of different questions.

[00:09:19] First of all, how much longer is Cal Raleigh going to catch?

[00:09:22] That's the first one.

[00:09:23] That determines the years in the AAV on the contract.

[00:09:26] Cal's going to want to catch for all of them.

[00:09:30] But, Lyle, you and I have talked about this before.

[00:09:32] Cal gets a six-year extension.

[00:09:34] Mentioned he'll be here until he's 33 or 34.

[00:09:38] He might not be catching at that point of his career, given how much he's already caught in his Mariners career

[00:09:42] and how much we anticipate him catching the rest of his six-year control period.

[00:09:49] So that's the first one.

[00:09:50] The second one is how much are they willing to stick to their risk-adverse model?

[00:09:57] If they were going to stick to that totally, Lyle, I don't think they would offer Cal Raleigh an extension.

[00:10:02] Does that make sense?

[00:10:03] It is risky to extend a catcher for six years.

[00:10:07] Like, look at J.P.

[00:10:08] I can't speak.

[00:10:10] J.T. Romulo right now.

[00:10:12] At the end of his big contract.

[00:10:15] He's not worth his contract right now.

[00:10:18] Okay, so then you pay Cal what he deserves to be paid right now.

[00:10:22] And if it gets to the point where you feel like he can't catch at some point, he can play a couple years at first base or DH.

[00:10:27] That doesn't really seem like the end of the world toward the back end of that contract if it even gets to that point.

[00:10:32] Maybe Cal's sturdy enough to just keep catching.

[00:10:34] If he's not, there are other ways to still utilize him.

[00:10:37] It's not the end of the world.

[00:10:38] But in the Mariner sense, in the world of spreadsheets, Cal Raleigh's offense at first base is not as valuable as his offense behind the plate.

[00:10:47] But at that point, you're willing to eat some value because you're getting the value the years he is catching.

[00:10:52] Which is what you hope.

[00:10:53] You hope, essentially, if you sign Cal Raleigh to a six-year extension, that you're getting two unbelievably valuable years at the front of that contract.

[00:11:01] And then you deal with the rest.

[00:11:03] Like you get the, say he signs for $100 million.

[00:11:06] You get $60 million worth of value at least in the first two years of that contract.

[00:11:12] And then leave the latter three or four years to get the rest of the $40 million if you even get that.

[00:11:18] Like that's what you want.

[00:11:19] I have news for you.

[00:11:21] The Mariners also believe spending money on almost anybody is not a smart strategy.

[00:11:25] Man, we got to it 11 and a half minutes into the show today.

[00:11:28] That's pretty good.

[00:11:28] So what the Mariners think, well, they should change their thinking.

[00:11:33] They should.

[00:11:35] And now that Cal has that, now that Cal has set that up, I think that is, that's good.

[00:11:42] So hopefully talks continue.

[00:11:44] I would still be absolutely shocked if he signs anything within the next calendar year.

[00:11:50] That would still be pretty soon for Cal Raleigh.

[00:11:52] But we'll see.

[00:11:53] Because his value is about as high as it'll be right now.

[00:11:58] And ball is the Mariners' court.

[00:11:59] No pressure, guys.

[00:12:02] Is there a certain amount of time he has to wait before Scott Boris isn't owed any of that money for an extension?

[00:12:09] Remember when Carlos Correa changed agencies from his previous agency to Scott Boris?

[00:12:13] I think it's a year.

[00:12:14] What?

[00:12:15] I think it's a year.

[00:12:17] Okay.

[00:12:17] So if that's the case, then Cal would probably wait until next offseason.

[00:12:20] Isn't that why Correa signed a contract with two opt-outs for essentially a year?

[00:12:27] Well, that's what I was getting at.

[00:12:29] Right.

[00:12:30] Is when Correa changed agents, Boris got him to take that shorter deal because otherwise it was an old agency that was going to get a bunch of the money.

[00:12:39] And Boris convinced Correa that, hey, just wait it out.

[00:12:43] I'll get you more money until it all goes to me.

[00:12:46] So I do wonder.

[00:12:47] I don't know exactly how all that works.

[00:12:48] I don't know if every situation is different.

[00:12:50] I don't know if there's a standard for that across baseball agencies.

[00:12:54] But, yeah, you do have to wonder if that factors in at all.

[00:12:57] And if that's the case, Cal may wait a bit.

[00:13:00] And if it's a year, pay attention to November 21st, 2025, and then go from there when it comes to an extension.

[00:13:09] Because the way, like you said, the way that works, if you, whatever, they still get up within a year, I think they get a percent of whatever that next contract is.

[00:13:18] The total value of it, not just for the year, the total value.

[00:13:22] So if you sign a six-year deal, they get X percent of six years.

[00:13:25] But if you only sign a one-year deal, you only get X percent of one year.

[00:13:28] And that's something that not only Cal's looking at, but Excel Sports Management is looking at as well.

[00:13:33] Because they don't want to see anything come out of their bottom line either.

[00:13:38] So one thing at a time for Cal to handle.

[00:13:40] Cal's going to handle being a Platinum Glove winner, finishing 12th in MVP and going out and hopefully leading this team to a playoff appearance next season.

[00:13:47] And then the Mariners can give him an extension that he's very much dude coming up here in the future.

[00:13:56] We had a bit of deja vu this week as well.

[00:13:59] Was anybody surprised to see Austin Shenton reacquired?

[00:14:02] Were you?

[00:14:04] No.

[00:14:05] As soon as I saw the Rays let him go, I thought to myself, there's probably a world the Mariners get back in on this.

[00:14:10] One, they liked him when he was here.

[00:14:12] He really hit when he was in the minors.

[00:14:14] Number two, the Mariners need depth at the corner infield spots.

[00:14:17] So no, not at all.

[00:14:19] How funny is it that the man who was DFA?

[00:14:23] It's not funny that JT Chargois lost his job and got DFA'd.

[00:14:27] I'm sure someone will pick it up because JT pitched well last season.

[00:14:30] Somebody's going to need a reliever in their bullpen among the other 29 teams in baseball.

[00:14:36] But Austin Shenton and JT Chargois were part of the original trade package that sent Shenton away.

[00:14:42] And now it was JT Chargois who was not only reacquired last year, but now is the one that has to get DFA'd because Shenton was reacquired as well.

[00:14:52] I think it's now Jordan Schusterman was keeping track.

[00:14:55] Eight players that Jerry DiPoto has traded away and then traded back for.

[00:14:59] Okay, I'm actually going to quiz you on this.

[00:15:01] So, Lau, can you name the eight players that Jerry DiPoto has traded away and then traded back for?

[00:15:08] I can get at least a few of these.

[00:15:11] So, Shenton and Chargois, that's two.

[00:15:15] Yep.

[00:15:16] Juan 10.

[00:15:17] Yep.

[00:15:18] That's three.

[00:15:22] Malik Smith.

[00:15:23] Yep.

[00:15:25] So, I got half.

[00:15:27] Remember when Malik's got traded back for the second time when he actually stayed in Seattle for a while and they told him,

[00:15:32] well, we can promise you this, it'll be longer than 90 minutes this time.

[00:15:36] Yeah, I remember that.

[00:15:38] You have one, two, three, four more.

[00:15:43] Yep.

[00:15:44] Are any of them obvious?

[00:15:46] Yes.

[00:15:48] Really?

[00:15:50] All have been big leaguers.

[00:15:52] It's only one of these guys has not been a big leaguer with the Mariners at any point.

[00:15:58] But I think if I told you his name, you'd know who he is.

[00:16:03] Traded away and then traded back for.

[00:16:07] And these are...

[00:16:08] Do you want to hint?

[00:16:09] Yeah.

[00:16:09] So, we have two lefty pitchers, one lefty hitter, and then one minor league bat.

[00:16:15] Two lefty pitchers, one lefty hitter, and a minor league bat.

[00:16:20] I think you might have to start rattling them off.

[00:16:23] Anthony Masevich.

[00:16:25] Mm.

[00:16:25] Okay.

[00:16:26] One of the most average pitchers I've ever seen in my life.

[00:16:29] Rowan Asilius.

[00:16:31] Mm.

[00:16:32] Mike Ford.

[00:16:35] And Patrick Kivlihan.

[00:16:38] I would not have gotten Patrick Kivlihan.

[00:16:40] But you know who he is.

[00:16:42] Yeah, I know who he is, but I wouldn't have gotten that one.

[00:16:44] Right.

[00:16:44] Exactly.

[00:16:45] That was the one that you would know, but weren't going to guess.

[00:16:47] Mm-hmm.

[00:16:48] All right.

[00:16:49] Well, I feel pretty good getting half of those, to be honest.

[00:16:52] So, it took, officially, less, it took less than 36 hours after being DFA'd for Jerry

[00:16:59] DePoto to acquire Austin Chen.

[00:17:01] Mm-hmm.

[00:17:02] And what they were noting is something I didn't, I guess I didn't really pick up on when they

[00:17:07] made this move.

[00:17:08] The Mariners did have 30 minor leaguers either hit free agency, opt out, or get traded this

[00:17:17] this offseason, and they were hit decently hard with their infield depth, and that's

[00:17:22] what Austin Chenton's going to bring.

[00:17:25] He's not going to light the world on fire offensively, but he's always hitting the minors

[00:17:29] at every single stop he's had in either the minor leagues or the major leagues, in which

[00:17:36] he got a very brief cup of coffee this past year at the Rays and had a 120 WRC+.

[00:17:41] It's always been at least above average, if not well above average.

[00:17:45] Which, I mean, even go back to 2023, he was about a 160 WRC+, guy in the minors.

[00:17:53] There was a problem, though.

[00:17:55] He fits right in with the Mariners mantra of striking out way too much.

[00:17:59] He didn't strike out when he was initially a Mariners farmhand before he got traded away,

[00:18:04] but since then, I mean, it has been comfortably over 28%, essentially every stint.

[00:18:11] So, if he comes up, and I would imagine he's going to probably see some big league time

[00:18:15] this year, because he's going to be on the 40-man roster.

[00:18:18] It's going to be some power, some walks, and a lot of strikeouts.

[00:18:23] I wouldn't totally close the book on Austin Chetton's big league career, because it's

[00:18:27] barely started.

[00:18:28] I'm not saying he's going to go win an MVP, but could he be productive in the big leagues,

[00:18:32] especially offensively?

[00:18:33] Yeah, there's a world where that happens.

[00:18:35] That's the whole reason they drafted him decently high in the fifth round, and there's

[00:18:38] a reason they liked him when he was in the minors and really hitting his way through the

[00:18:41] minor leagues before he was shipped away for Diego Castillo.

[00:18:44] So, I think he's got some real, at least doubles power from the left side.

[00:18:50] He's got a little bit of home run power, and yeah, he strikes out, but I still think

[00:18:56] the dude can flat out hit.

[00:18:58] So, I'm not saying they should walk.

[00:18:59] He walks a ton.

[00:19:00] Walks a ton.

[00:19:01] Oh, yeah, and he draws his walks.

[00:19:03] So, that's the difference from guys like him and guys like Tao, where Tao didn't walk,

[00:19:08] and he struck out a bunch.

[00:19:09] Chetton might strike out, but at least he walks.

[00:19:11] I think the most important part about this is he has two minor league options left.

[00:19:15] They don't even have to put him on the big league roster to start spring training.

[00:19:19] They could put him in the minors this year and next year in the organization.

[00:19:22] Yeah.

[00:19:23] And maybe we're a little biased toward the guys because we saw him for a while in the

[00:19:27] Cape League when we were there in 2018, and spoiler, he was one of the best hitters

[00:19:31] in the league when we saw him.

[00:19:32] I mean, the best hitters in that league when we were there was Tork and Spencer Torkelson

[00:19:36] who went one, a couple other guys who people listening to this podcast wouldn't know,

[00:19:40] and Shenton.

[00:19:42] Shenton was in the top three or four batters in that league, and the fact that he is a

[00:19:46] Washington kid.

[00:19:47] Grew up a Mariners fan from Bellingham, played at Bellevue College before he went to FIU.

[00:19:53] So, it's cool.

[00:19:54] It's a little bit of a hometown story.

[00:19:58] The couple of concerns besides the strikeouts hasn't been totally healthy throughout his

[00:20:02] minor league career, and he's only a first baseman at this point.

[00:20:09] The scouting report still says he plays multiple positions.

[00:20:12] I'd be shocked if he plays anywhere besides first, and the Mariners already have a lefty

[00:20:16] that they want to put at first base who's not totally a first baseman either, who also

[00:20:22] strikes out a bunch.

[00:20:23] I will bet they try to play him at third, maybe second.

[00:20:29] Now, he's not a great defender, but I will bet you that they attempt to try to play him

[00:20:34] at third base because that's where their needs are, is third base.

[00:20:38] I will bet you in spring...

[00:20:39] Can we clone Perry Hill and send him to Tacoma?

[00:20:44] Well, all I'm saying is I bet you when we're down in spring training this year and people

[00:20:48] are down there, you will probably see him taking reps at third base.

[00:20:52] Not only reps at third base, he's taking balls off the wall from Perry.

[00:20:55] Probably.

[00:20:56] Yeah.

[00:20:57] He's doing the wall drill.

[00:20:59] But will Austin Shetton get in that bat with the Mariners this year?

[00:21:03] Probably.

[00:21:04] Mm-hmm.

[00:21:05] I would assume so, yeah.

[00:21:08] Next subject.

[00:21:09] Yeah.

[00:21:11] Do you miss Root Sports?

[00:21:12] Do you miss talking about television money?

[00:21:14] No, it sent us spiraling on a tangent last winter, so no, not at all.

[00:21:19] Yeah, so anyway, we've got, what, four subjects to talk about on this show?

[00:21:23] We're two down, two to go.

[00:21:24] This is the third.

[00:21:25] Yeah.

[00:21:27] So a little bit of, I guess, housekeeping because it was almost slipped into an athletic article

[00:21:32] written by Evan Drellick when he was talking about the future of MLB's broadcasting rights

[00:21:36] and what's potentially coming up in the future and how some of these teams are distributing

[00:21:42] in the 2025 season.

[00:21:44] And he kind of slipped a little note in about the Mariners that they had moved their production

[00:21:48] of their television broadcasts to Major League Baseball.

[00:21:52] And everyone's like, whoa, what's going on?

[00:21:56] No one announced anything.

[00:21:58] No one said, oh, Root Sports is going away, da-da-da-da-da-da.

[00:22:01] It was just this one throwaway line in an article, but I actually think people were overthinking

[00:22:06] this a little bit.

[00:22:07] And it's been explained by whether it was Adam Jude and Ryan Davis who actually on Thursday,

[00:22:11] just before we hit record, put out an article in the Seattle Times detailing what this meant

[00:22:16] a little bit more.

[00:22:17] And then on Brock and Salk, you guys talked about it as well, where I think people, when

[00:22:24] they hear this news, they get a little confused about what some of the specifics of television

[00:22:31] actually mean.

[00:22:32] So let's, I'm going to give a brief history lesson on how I understand this.

[00:22:38] And then I'll let you add in some context.

[00:22:41] So in case people forgot, as recently as 2023, Warner Brothers Discovery owned 10% of Root Sports

[00:22:50] and they handled all the production of Root Sports.

[00:22:54] Then in the off season of 23 to 24, which caused all this flux, like Lyle mentioned, Warner Brothers

[00:23:01] Discovery wanted to get out.

[00:23:03] They're getting out of the RSN business.

[00:23:04] So they had the Mariners buy their stake in Root Sports.

[00:23:10] So now the Mariners own 100% of Root Sports.

[00:23:12] And they were this past year in charge of the production aspect, a production aspect of

[00:23:18] Root Sports.

[00:23:21] Now, coming up here in 2025, instead of the Mariners handling the production of it, Major

[00:23:26] League Baseball handled the production of it.

[00:23:28] And remember, the production and the distribution are different.

[00:23:30] The distribution, as announced, will still be on Root Sports, but the production is going

[00:23:35] to be done by Major League Baseball.

[00:23:37] Now, does that make sense, Lyle?

[00:23:40] It does.

[00:23:41] So not much is going to change in terms of what the normal average fan tunes into on a nightly

[00:23:47] basis.

[00:23:48] There's things that are going to change behind the scenes.

[00:23:50] But in terms of just the fan viewing experience in 2025, it's not going to look that different.

[00:23:55] In fact, to most people, it probably won't look like anything's changed.

[00:23:59] Brock mentioned something on the show today when he was describing it.

[00:24:03] So think about this if you're a football fan.

[00:24:06] Like, you watch Thursday Night Football on Amazon.

[00:24:08] Does Amazon pay for all the production of that?

[00:24:12] No.

[00:24:12] No, they don't.

[00:24:13] Brock said it was NBC that does that.

[00:24:16] Does all the production for it.

[00:24:17] So it's like the same idea.

[00:24:18] Yeah.

[00:24:19] The people who actually put the product together and then the people who distribute it.

[00:24:24] Now, I think this makes a little bit of sense when it comes to the clarity that Jerry DePoto

[00:24:31] mentioned with their television deal.

[00:24:33] So I think they just essentially had to sort it out with who's handling production and what

[00:24:39] their set cost was going to be when it came to running the network this year.

[00:24:43] Therefore, they have more clarity when it comes to spending money instead of, oh, how are we

[00:24:48] going to put this together?

[00:24:50] And what are we how are we paying for all this?

[00:24:53] Big question is how much money we don't know.

[00:24:57] Well, no one's ever going to say anything.

[00:25:00] No, but they say payroll is going to go up.

[00:25:03] Nobody still knows what that means.

[00:25:05] We all assume and the general assumption seems to be, well, they're going to pay some guys in

[00:25:10] arbitration.

[00:25:10] That's how payroll is going to go up.

[00:25:11] And then they're going to do absolutely nothing the rest of the winter.

[00:25:13] I mean, not nothing, but they're not going to spend real money.

[00:25:17] Television wise, there's two things that could generate more money for the Mariners.

[00:25:22] One thing is cable has this insane boom this winter and people start signing back up for

[00:25:27] Xfinity buying the top tier package.

[00:25:29] The Mariners root sports subscribers shoot through the roof and all of a sudden, wow,

[00:25:33] look at all the cash.

[00:25:34] We got it.

[00:25:35] Or for what they've talked about for a while now, they do this direct to consumer thing

[00:25:40] and they get hundreds of thousands of people to sign up for it.

[00:25:45] And then all of a sudden, they're hand over fist and cash to spend.

[00:25:48] That's the only difference this can really make.

[00:25:52] Right.

[00:25:52] And from what Salk's talked about, and Salk knows people in the Mariners organization well.

[00:25:56] He's connected.

[00:25:57] And the information he seems to have gathered, and he talked about this on the show, was

[00:26:01] that's what the Mariners are working on right now.

[00:26:03] When's it going to get done?

[00:26:05] Is it going to get done?

[00:26:06] We'll see.

[00:26:07] But that seems to be what they're working on and what they want their long-term plan to be

[00:26:11] is, yeah, a direct-to-consumer app where if you're watching on a smart TV, if you're

[00:26:15] watching on your phone, you just get the app, you pay the yearly subscription, and you can

[00:26:19] just watch the Mariners.

[00:26:20] The only year we know about with root sports for clarity purposes is next year.

[00:26:25] Right.

[00:26:25] After that, as Jude and Davis reported earlier today, there's not a ton of clarity of where

[00:26:31] Mariners games will be housed, say, in 2026.

[00:26:34] But in 2025, at least, they will be in the same place on either Fubo or Xfinity for you

[00:26:39] to watch, or the root sports app.

[00:26:43] So, I guess thankful is the wrong word because I don't think people exactly like the distribution

[00:26:48] of root sports, especially on cable and how much people have to pay for it.

[00:26:54] And just read our comments under the social post you did earlier this week when this news

[00:26:58] came out where people were like, I just want to watch the Mariners.

[00:27:00] I can't do it.

[00:27:03] People are not very happy about it.

[00:27:05] Here's one thing that I will note that while starting to understand more of this RSN stuff

[00:27:10] that I don't think is going to happen is if you...

[00:27:16] So, some people have said, man, I miss the days when baseball was broadcast over the air

[00:27:20] locally.

[00:27:20] I don't think that's ever coming back.

[00:27:23] Not in this current model when there are teams, say, like the LA Dodgers who make just

[00:27:28] an absurd amount of money on RSNs.

[00:27:31] And when you broadcast over the air, you don't make as much money.

[00:27:33] And you have to make up that money in ad sales.

[00:27:36] And there's only so many ads you can sell on a given broadcast.

[00:27:39] So, that's not going to be an option.

[00:27:42] What the thing Manfred's been talking about forever is nationalizing baseball.

[00:27:47] Will it work?

[00:27:49] Who knows?

[00:27:51] But that's what they were thinking.

[00:27:52] No blackouts.

[00:27:53] Who knows?

[00:27:54] One product to distribute.

[00:27:56] Well, you called him the wrong name.

[00:27:59] Manfred.

[00:27:59] Sorry.

[00:28:00] Manfred.

[00:28:00] Sorry.

[00:28:01] Oh.

[00:28:02] It's been a long day.

[00:28:03] It slipped.

[00:28:04] Yeah.

[00:28:05] I don't know who this Rob Manfred is.

[00:28:06] Oh, Rob Manfred is.

[00:28:07] The commissioner of baseball?

[00:28:08] Yeah, that guy.

[00:28:09] Okay.

[00:28:09] Do we have the Frank cut to play?

[00:28:12] I wish we did.

[00:28:13] If we had thought about it, we should have played it.

[00:28:15] Man!

[00:28:16] Fraud!

[00:28:17] Man!

[00:28:18] Fraud!

[00:28:18] Man!

[00:28:19] Fraud!

[00:28:22] I will say, I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but to you talking about baseball trying to nationalize

[00:28:27] and to try and change the distribution of TV rights and TV broadcasts, this is going

[00:28:34] to lead to a lot of things, including what the future of the sport looks like.

[00:28:39] Not just with this stuff, but what salaries look like.

[00:28:41] Is there going to be a cap at some point, etc.?

[00:28:44] Again, I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but we better start planning what we're going

[00:28:48] to do in the offseason after 2026, because there's going to be a fat lockout.

[00:28:54] Like, a lot of games may be missed, because the whole sport is going to change.

[00:28:59] I don't know how the players are going to, how exactly they're going to come around to

[00:29:05] the idea of getting paid less.

[00:29:07] Like, that doesn't happen in sports.

[00:29:10] Usually when you go to the table to negotiate, you're trying to do what's best for both sides.

[00:29:17] Well, Major League Baseball is in a unique situation of the four major sports where that's going

[00:29:22] to be the only one where they're going to have to sit down and be like, guys, everyone's

[00:29:28] going to start getting paid less now, because there's just not as much revenue coming in

[00:29:31] from these giant cable bubbles.

[00:29:34] It's not going to sit very well.

[00:29:36] You know what I think?

[00:29:37] I think our friend Trevor May might be on with us a lot that offseason, because he is very,

[00:29:42] very passionate about this stuff specifically.

[00:29:45] And I think he's going to provide a lot of insight about it come that time.

[00:29:49] So at the very least, hopefully we'll get to talk to him when that happens to get some

[00:29:53] clarity on everything.

[00:29:54] But yeah, I think players are really going to fight in this next negotiation for what

[00:30:00] they think their value rightfully is.

[00:30:03] And I think there's going to be a lot of back and forth that could take forever.

[00:30:09] Yeah.

[00:30:10] And in case people are unfamiliar with Trevor's qualifications, he was the one sitting at those

[00:30:15] tables for the Players Association negotiating.

[00:30:18] So he knows.

[00:30:20] Yes, he does.

[00:30:21] And he's very, very passionate about it.

[00:30:22] We were talking to him about it for a while.

[00:30:25] And yeah, it'll be interesting to see how it all goes.

[00:30:27] What are we going to do?

[00:30:28] Are we just going to have to talk World Cup during that time?

[00:30:30] Oh, wait, no, it'll already be over.

[00:30:32] Damn it.

[00:30:33] Isn't it going?

[00:30:33] Well, the World Cup's going to be in the summer again.

[00:30:35] It's in the summer.

[00:30:36] I know.

[00:30:36] I got my timeline mixed up.

[00:30:38] See, the Winter World Cup threw me off.

[00:30:41] We're going to what are we going to do?

[00:30:43] Are we going to live stream old games and try to break out?

[00:30:45] I mean, we weren't podcasting during COVID, but are we going to try to break out COVID type

[00:30:49] ideas for content?

[00:30:50] It's like, well, you want to watch an old game and follow along with us?

[00:30:54] Or just play MLB the show.

[00:30:56] Yeah.

[00:30:59] Let's cross that bridge when we get there.

[00:31:01] It'll be like breaking.

[00:31:03] Someone got a photo of Rob Manfred laughing on the balcony after the negotiations like last

[00:31:07] time.

[00:31:10] You know what tweet I always laugh at?

[00:31:12] Somebody got a video of Rob Manfred walking through one of the complexes in Arizona and

[00:31:17] into one of the meetings or whatever.

[00:31:19] And somebody sunk it up with that song, Riding Dirty.

[00:31:23] It was for like five seconds.

[00:31:24] It's him just walking in, Manfred looking awkward and just everything as always.

[00:31:30] And it's just him walking.

[00:31:31] It's just, they see me rolling.

[00:31:33] They hate it.

[00:31:34] At least this will be the last negotiation with him.

[00:31:37] Thank God.

[00:31:39] Oh my God.

[00:31:40] Yeah.

[00:31:41] It's going to be, it's going to be really bad that, that negotiate, that lockout.

[00:31:45] So I just, I hope for our sake, it's not going to cripple the sport like it did in the

[00:31:49] nineties.

[00:31:50] It might.

[00:31:51] There's a very realistic chance.

[00:31:52] It's the, there's a reason the sport needed the steroid era to get fan interest back up

[00:31:57] because they lost a lot of fans in the nineties when they, there was a work stoppage.

[00:32:01] Last thing we want with all this momentum of baseball and we have all these amazing players

[00:32:07] with these great marketing teams, putting on a great product and record world series

[00:32:11] ratings is for a lockout to, to ruin it.

[00:32:15] But both sides have needs they want.

[00:32:18] That's why people sign collective bargaining agreements for better pay and benefits and

[00:32:24] ways to run businesses in a profitable manner.

[00:32:28] Like this is like what we support the player side.

[00:32:32] Definitely.

[00:32:33] Cause it's a little more, a slightly more relatable to us than being a owner of a, of a baseball

[00:32:38] team.

[00:32:38] But there are definitely two sides to every negotiation and how this stuff's going to

[00:32:43] operate.

[00:32:43] Like I really, I can't wait to have Trevor on because the way he's explaining some of,

[00:32:47] some of the things that like they have to talk about and some of the dynamics of all

[00:32:51] this, it's, it's fascinating stuff.

[00:32:53] And if you want to think about like how many details they actually have to go through,

[00:32:57] I would go check out Trevor's YouTube channel.

[00:32:59] He's broken down like all of these CBA benefits players get.

[00:33:04] It's, it's incredible.

[00:33:05] Some things you wouldn't even think of.

[00:33:06] Right.

[00:33:07] It's, it's pretty crazy.

[00:33:08] Here's my last thing on this subject before we move on.

[00:33:12] Here's what we're going to do for content.

[00:33:14] Once a month, we will be cooking up Kyle Tucker trade negotiations to the Mariners after

[00:33:19] he signs a 10 year extension somewhere else.

[00:33:22] Now we could negotiate with the Astros because we're not part of the players association.

[00:33:30] Mm-hmm.

[00:33:31] Now we can do whatever we want.

[00:33:33] Kyle Tucker.

[00:33:34] Can you make a trade during that?

[00:33:36] No, you can't trade during a lockout.

[00:33:38] No, you can't do anything.

[00:33:39] Like teams can talk to each other, but they can't trade players.

[00:33:43] Remember how furious we were going to be had the Mariners not signed Robbie Ray before

[00:33:47] that lockout because then they would have gone in that 48 hours before the only I'm

[00:33:51] convinced to this day.

[00:33:52] The only reason Robbie Ray signed with the Mariners is because he just wanted a contract

[00:33:55] before the lockout started.

[00:33:57] Yeah.

[00:33:58] And they needed what they felt like was top end pitching.

[00:34:01] They came off a 91 season, et cetera.

[00:34:02] Right.

[00:34:03] And the Mariners knew they needed a starting pitcher and they were, they didn't want to

[00:34:06] risk him not being available essentially once the lockout broke and they had to go

[00:34:10] straight to spring training.

[00:34:12] Right.

[00:34:13] It'd be better for Robbie to, you know, build up knowing he's playing somewhere.

[00:34:17] Before the lockout rather than trying to scramble after because anyone who had to sign after

[00:34:22] it was, it was a nightmare.

[00:34:24] Right.

[00:34:25] It was, it was an absolute nightmare, but Robbie Ray Mariners legend.

[00:34:28] Yeah.

[00:34:29] And still Kyle Tucker unhappy as New York Yankee.

[00:34:33] How Mariners can swing trade next on the Marine layer podcast.

[00:34:39] One, one year after he signed a huge extension.

[00:34:44] Let's hope the Mariners could with their shiny new TV deal at that point and all the money

[00:34:48] they're making.

[00:34:49] Wink, wink.

[00:34:51] Can afford to take that contract on.

[00:34:53] We demand to be shown the books.

[00:34:55] We never will, but we still demand it.

[00:34:57] One day, Lyle.

[00:34:58] One day.

[00:34:59] We'll make the Mariners a publicly traded company.

[00:35:02] Then we can see it.

[00:35:03] I forgot.

[00:35:04] Yeah.

[00:35:04] When, when we buy the team, which by the way, if you want us to do that, we can only

[00:35:08] do that.

[00:35:09] If you guys subscribe on YouTube, that's, that's the only way it's going to happen.

[00:35:11] If you want the two of us to own the team, you're going to need to subscribe.

[00:35:14] Yeah.

[00:35:14] We'll buy the team and we'll start, we'll start selling shares back to the fans.

[00:35:19] Yeah.

[00:35:20] The fans will have a vested interest in this.

[00:35:22] Yeah.

[00:35:22] And, and we'll start, we'll keep doing this podcast with all this content.

[00:35:25] And part of our content is going to be openly sharing the books with everybody.

[00:35:30] So it's like, we're going to be transparent.

[00:35:32] No, not only are we going to be openly sharing the books, but we're going to be going through

[00:35:36] the day to day.

[00:35:37] It's like, well, can you believe this joke of a trade-off or the Astros just sent us?

[00:35:43] What idiots will be accepting me?

[00:35:46] Sorry.

[00:35:47] They want a Colt Emerson and Logan Gilbert for what is that?

[00:35:54] The corpse of Jose Altuve.

[00:36:01] Deny, deny, deny.

[00:36:02] It's like, I'm not even going to call them back.

[00:36:04] I'm just going to look into the camera and say, no.

[00:36:08] Yeah.

[00:36:09] Well, you can send that back to them or just tag them on Instagram.

[00:36:12] We'll cut a clip.

[00:36:13] We'll cut the clip or sorry.

[00:36:14] We'll be rich enough at that point.

[00:36:15] We won't have to do any more editing, but we're going to have our, we're going to have

[00:36:19] our, our editor cut that clip, send it directly to Astros leadership and no.

[00:36:28] Yes.

[00:36:29] Wow.

[00:36:30] That sounds fun.

[00:36:31] Wow.

[00:36:32] I mean, literally it would be a one of a kind sports organization.

[00:36:38] Packers should do that.

[00:36:39] I think that'll be wildly fun.

[00:36:41] That would.

[00:36:41] Yeah.

[00:36:42] Would you lose leverage?

[00:36:43] Sure.

[00:36:43] Who cares?

[00:36:44] It's fun.

[00:36:45] Like you said, it's a civic duty.

[00:36:47] It is.

[00:36:48] We're in the, we're in the duty of, of serving the, serving the people.

[00:36:50] Mm-hmm.

[00:36:51] Let's get to our final subject.

[00:36:53] Hall of Fame ballot dropped this week.

[00:36:56] And there are two Mariners on the ballot for this edition.

[00:36:59] Each year on Felix are both making their debut on the ballot.

[00:37:05] I'm going to just throw it to you.

[00:37:06] What, when I say that, like what comments come out of your mouth?

[00:37:12] What excuses are people going to make to not vote for Ichiro?

[00:37:16] He should be the second unanimous.

[00:37:18] Mm-hmm.

[00:37:19] Will he?

[00:37:20] I have my doubts because baseball writers are old, stingy, and have egos.

[00:37:27] Which, which East Coast writer won't vote for Ichiro?

[00:37:31] Man, I mean, there's so many you could pick from.

[00:37:34] It's hard to really single everybody out.

[00:37:35] John Heyman!

[00:37:36] I mean, I don't really know.

[00:37:39] No, but in his time with the Yankees, I just didn't see it.

[00:37:46] Right.

[00:37:46] After he had 2,000 career hits in two years.

[00:37:50] In 10 years.

[00:37:52] You know, he didn't have the same tenacity that he once did.

[00:37:58] It's like, John, did you watch one single game of him in Seattle?

[00:38:00] You know, I could watch baseball in Seattle.

[00:38:04] John, he was 38 years old, buddy.

[00:38:08] He'd been, he'd been playing for, and professionally at that point, for 20 years.

[00:38:13] Yeah, gee, wonder why he's not as good anymore.

[00:38:17] Yeah, so, Ichiro should be unanimous.

[00:38:21] The, the real thing is Felix here.

[00:38:23] And we talked about this in the off season last year about Felix's Hall of Fame candidacy.

[00:38:30] I'm going to just be honest that he's, I don't think he, I don't know if he's, sorry.

[00:38:34] Let me be a little bit more definitive here.

[00:38:37] Always have an opinion, they say.

[00:38:39] I don't think Felix is making it off this first ballot.

[00:38:42] Unfortunately, he's got some Hall of Fame traits.

[00:38:45] At his peak, he was a Hall of Fame pitcher.

[00:38:48] But, unfortunately, as we get to this point and his resume stacks up against other Hall of Famers,

[00:38:54] he's not going to get enough national recognition to get in.

[00:38:58] I agree with that.

[00:39:00] He just didn't do it long enough.

[00:39:01] The seven years he had at the peak of his career were Hall of Fame level, from 2009 to 2014, or 2015.

[00:39:10] Hall of Famer.

[00:39:12] Didn't do it long enough.

[00:39:13] It's unfortunate, but he just didn't quite do it for long enough.

[00:39:17] Now, if you want to use the Harold Baines meter, then sure, he's a Hall of Famer.

[00:39:20] Because if Harold Baines can get in with 38 career war, then anybody can get in.

[00:39:23] But, it doesn't always work like that.

[00:39:26] Unfortunately, I don't think it's going to happen for Felix.

[00:39:28] I just, again, you look at some of the other guys in his era,

[00:39:32] and guys that sustained it for longer.

[00:39:33] Kershaw, Verlander, Scherzer.

[00:39:35] Verlander, you look at especially.

[00:39:36] Because he started to fall off at a similar time to Felix.

[00:39:39] But Verlander picked something up and figured it out,

[00:39:42] where he had an absolute resurgence and won additional Cy Youngs.

[00:39:47] He had the best years of his career,

[00:39:48] like after Felix had been out of the league, essentially.

[00:39:51] Right.

[00:39:51] So, they just did it for longer.

[00:39:54] And it's guys like that that I think will get in.

[00:39:56] Felix is a Hall of very good pitcher.

[00:39:58] He could even be a Hall of great pitcher.

[00:40:01] Maybe not a Hall of Fame pitcher.

[00:40:04] There are a couple of accumulation numbers that work in his favor.

[00:40:10] If you think about it, since 2005 to this point,

[00:40:13] seventh in innings, fifth in pitcher wins above replacement.

[00:40:16] Which is not nothing.

[00:40:17] 54 career wins above replacement is an awesome mark.

[00:40:21] He pitched nearly 3,000 innings.

[00:40:23] And I think there's just really one pivotal moment in his career

[00:40:27] where we could be having a different argument today when it comes to his awards.

[00:40:30] And it's that 2014 Cy Young award.

[00:40:33] How much different do we look at Felix?

[00:40:35] And how much differently is he looked at nationally if he had that award?

[00:40:37] That he rightfully deserved, by the way, over Corey Kluber.

[00:40:40] Because he was the best pitcher in baseball that year.

[00:40:42] Or, sorry.

[00:40:43] He was not the best pitcher.

[00:40:44] He was the second best pitcher in baseball that year.

[00:40:46] Kershaw was pretty unreal that year.

[00:40:47] But he's better than Corey Kluber was.

[00:40:49] And Kluber ended up winning that Cy Young over Felix in 2014.

[00:40:53] And if he wins that, he gets to be on a list with guys like Roy Halladay,

[00:40:59] Johan Santana, Tom Glavin, and Bob Gibson.

[00:41:04] That's a great list to be on with multiple Cy Youngs.

[00:41:07] It is kind of wild that one start may alter the perception of his career.

[00:41:14] Because he wins it undoubtedly.

[00:41:17] Does he not get blown up in that second to last start of the year?

[00:41:20] And it was either Toronto or Houston.

[00:41:21] I'm trying to remember.

[00:41:22] It was in Toronto.

[00:41:23] Toronto.

[00:41:23] He had a different blow-up start in Houston at some point.

[00:41:26] Yeah.

[00:41:26] If he hadn't gotten blown up in Toronto the way he did in that season,

[00:41:29] he wins that Cy Young.

[00:41:30] It's not close.

[00:41:31] Now, he probably should have still won it that year.

[00:41:33] But he wins it easily had he not gotten blown up that day.

[00:41:38] So, it's crazy to think how much a career can change off of one start.

[00:41:42] But yeah, if he wins that second Cy Young,

[00:41:43] people probably view him a little bit differently.

[00:41:46] Unfortunately, he doesn't have it.

[00:41:47] Now, I don't know if people view Corey Kluber as a Hall of Famer.

[00:41:50] I don't.

[00:41:51] But...

[00:41:52] He's not a Hall of Famer.

[00:41:54] Yeah.

[00:41:54] He's also a Hall of Very Good.

[00:41:56] But his peak, like Felix's, wasn't long enough.

[00:41:58] And he got started really late, too.

[00:42:00] Mm-hmm.

[00:42:02] The other thing about this is the Mariners themselves, as a baseball team,

[00:42:06] not an organization, too, at that point,

[00:42:09] didn't do him any favors to get him in the Hall of Fame.

[00:42:11] Felix is looked at a lot different, I think, nationally as well,

[00:42:14] if during his prime years the Mariners weren't essentially the joke of baseball.

[00:42:19] And they had made the playoffs and won a couple games and given him some spotlight.

[00:42:23] In fact, he got the opposite.

[00:42:26] Yeah.

[00:42:27] It goes without saying.

[00:42:28] The organization failed him.

[00:42:29] They did.

[00:42:30] Beyond belief.

[00:42:30] Like, what happens if he swaps, if he's like a San Francisco Giant during that same era?

[00:42:36] I mean, yeah.

[00:42:37] People talk about...

[00:42:39] Now, I don't think he's going to get in, but there are people out there that have tried

[00:42:41] to argue for Madison Bumgarner as a Hall of Famer.

[00:42:44] Well, guess what?

[00:42:45] If Madison Bumgarner was on the Mariners his whole career, it's not even a thought.

[00:42:48] It's not even a blip on people's radar.

[00:42:49] Because people think about Madison Bumgarner, they think about how great he was in the postseason,

[00:42:53] specifically in 2014.

[00:42:55] Felix never got that chance because his organization failed him for years on end.

[00:43:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:43:30] Does Felix beat that mark?

[00:43:33] Yeah.

[00:43:34] I feel like he was a bigger brand name than Johan was, even though Johan pitched in better

[00:43:38] markets.

[00:43:39] And two, it's also a weak class.

[00:43:42] So that may help Felix stay on the ballot.

[00:43:44] I actually don't think it's going to be that close in terms of whether he stays on the ballot

[00:43:47] or not.

[00:43:47] I think he'll be on the ballot.

[00:43:49] I just, I don't think he's going to get in at any point.

[00:43:53] So...

[00:43:53] Well, unless people stoke their egos and go, oh, I'm not voting for anyone this year.

[00:43:59] Oh, yeah.

[00:44:00] Well, that.

[00:44:01] But it is a pretty weak class past Ichiro.

[00:44:04] So I think that may help Felix.

[00:44:06] It's just going to be Ichiro and CeCe this year, right?

[00:44:09] Oh, right.

[00:44:10] CeCe's on the ballot too.

[00:44:10] Yeah.

[00:44:11] I mean, does CeCe feel like a first ballot to you?

[00:44:13] I think he's a Hall of Famer, but is he a first ballot guy to you?

[00:44:16] Could be.

[00:44:17] CeCe, he's got the stats to be a Hall of Famer.

[00:44:20] This should be a point where if you're a Hall of Famer, you should be voted for on a ballot

[00:44:24] and you should get in on the first ballot.

[00:44:25] Yeah.

[00:44:26] Yeah, yeah.

[00:44:26] It shouldn't need these Edgar Martinez campaigns to get people into the Hall of Fame.

[00:44:32] Like, you look at someone's numbers, yeah, they're a Hall of Famer.

[00:44:36] What are we talking about?

[00:44:38] Oh, I'll vote for him next year.

[00:44:40] Yeah.

[00:44:42] As if these people ever use all 10 of their votes.

[00:44:44] Right.

[00:44:45] Right.

[00:44:45] And CeCe, I believe, got to 3,000 strikeouts.

[00:44:49] He did.

[00:44:50] We were there.

[00:44:51] Yeah, we were there.

[00:44:53] And it was in Arizona.

[00:44:54] People went pretty crazy for him, which was cool.

[00:44:56] Right.

[00:44:58] So it was – yeah.

[00:45:00] So he's probably going to be a Hall of Famer.

[00:45:02] If anything, you know what I hope?

[00:45:03] I hope this ballot finally gets Billy Wagner in because this is his last year on the ballot.

[00:45:08] I don't know how people have looked at that guy and the career he's had and said, no, he was not one of the best relievers of his era because he was.

[00:45:16] His ERA was sub 2 for his career, I believe.

[00:45:21] Okay, not quite, but 2-3-1.

[00:45:23] Career ERA.

[00:45:23] The guy pitched –

[00:45:25] Sorry, go ahead.

[00:45:26] The guy pitched 16 seasons.

[00:45:27] He got like 74% last year.

[00:45:30] Yeah, so he'll probably get it.

[00:45:32] He was really close.

[00:45:33] He just needs John Heyman to change his mind.

[00:45:36] Great.

[00:45:36] What a great person to lean on.

[00:45:38] Are we going to get another Tom Verducci video?

[00:45:40] It's like, here's why it's so great to vote for the Hall of Fame.

[00:45:45] It's the biggest honor of all time.

[00:45:48] Take it out of its envelope.

[00:45:50] I got my pen over here.

[00:45:54] As you then cast your vote for zero players.

[00:45:58] Yeah.

[00:45:59] If you – I have a rule.

[00:46:01] As baseball commissioner, I'm going to create a rule where if you don't vote for anyone on your Hall of Fame ballot, you lose your vote.

[00:46:08] If you're commissioner, I'm assuming I'm going to be in your cabinet, I'm implementing a rule too.

[00:46:13] When you get to the age of 60, you're done voting for the Hall of Fame.

[00:46:17] Wow.

[00:46:18] We're losing like 60% of the voting base at that point.

[00:46:22] Great.

[00:46:22] Because those people should stop voting.

[00:46:24] Most of them – okay, maybe not most of them.

[00:46:27] Maybe that's not fair.

[00:46:28] A lot of them need to stop voting.

[00:46:30] It's like these umpires that can't see and are still umping in their 60s and 70s.

[00:46:34] It's – like, again, how many people have you heard in your lifetime that said Barry Bonds should not be a Hall of Famer that was under the age of 40?

[00:46:47] It's still a decent amount because I don't think steroids are just something that old people or older people are against.

[00:46:54] It trends that way.

[00:46:56] There is some correlation between age and whether you feel like steroids were a big deal in baseball or not.

[00:47:02] The people – the younger demographic seems to have no problem with it.

[00:47:05] Remember, you don't have to get that much older to get to a generation of people who did watch and very much remember Barry Bonds.

[00:47:11] Unlike us, where it was like kind of – like we were pretty young when he was in his heyday.

[00:47:15] So we didn't remember quite as much of it.

[00:47:17] But you only need to go like six years up from us.

[00:47:20] And people will have very vivid memories of what Bonds did and could have formed very strong opinions on them.

[00:47:25] I mean, I used to hate Barry Bonds when I was a kid.

[00:47:27] I was like, what a cheating scumbag.

[00:47:30] But now at this point, it's like, okay, I mean, what they did – like he did cheat, but nobody suspended him for it while he was playing.

[00:47:44] So that's Major League Baseball's fault, not Barry Bonds' fault.

[00:47:47] Yeah, not until the league started to face public backlash about it.

[00:47:50] And it's like, well, how do we keep our hands clean?

[00:47:52] Let's blame it on the players for things we did not – we did not help implement.

[00:47:57] Major League Baseball not taking accountability for mistakes?

[00:48:01] What?

[00:48:01] That doesn't happen.

[00:48:04] I'm just saying you don't find many people below the age of 40 that will say Barry Bonds is not a Hall of Famer.

[00:48:10] It does seem to trend like that.

[00:48:13] Okay.

[00:48:13] When you say it that way, I think it's a little bit different.

[00:48:16] Like is he a Hall of Famer?

[00:48:17] Or you could say yes, but you could also say, well, he's also a scumbag for cheating.

[00:48:22] And it's like, oh, okay.

[00:48:24] I love Barry Bonds from the time I was a kid for what it was worth.

[00:48:26] Him and Sammy Sosa, love those guys growing up.

[00:48:29] They were pretty good.

[00:48:30] And they did a great service to baseball.

[00:48:32] They're a pretty big reason why we can sit here with the audience we have today and the amount of interest that is nationwide in baseball.

[00:48:39] Because without them, who knows how the sport is?

[00:48:42] Is it more like hockey when it comes to interest?

[00:48:44] Salaries like hockey?

[00:48:46] Who knows?

[00:48:47] I got one quick story before we wrap everything up.

[00:48:50] Because we did mention Corey Kluber and comparing him to Felix and who won that 2014 Cy Young.

[00:48:55] I've never told this story.

[00:48:56] You obviously know it.

[00:48:57] But it is one of the wildest encounters and interactions I've ever had.

[00:49:03] So TJ and I were in the Cape League.

[00:49:05] We spent two summers there broadcasting games.

[00:49:08] The second summer, so this was 2019.

[00:49:11] This was right after Corey Kluber won his second Cy Young.

[00:49:14] Because if I'm remembering right, he won it.

[00:49:17] Yeah, because he won it in 2014 and 2017.

[00:49:19] I was going to say, I think it was 2018 he won it.

[00:49:21] No, 17.

[00:49:22] No, you're right.

[00:49:22] 17.

[00:49:23] Well, still.

[00:49:23] Okay, he finished third in 2018.

[00:49:25] Point being, he was in his prime at that point.

[00:49:28] So, I'm at a store.

[00:49:32] I'm at a Trader Joe's.

[00:49:33] I'm just checking out.

[00:49:35] I just bought a few things from, you know, bought a few things to eat and was in the checkout line.

[00:49:41] Pause, pause, pause, pause.

[00:49:43] Yeah.

[00:49:44] Peanut butter, raspberry jelly, and whole wheat bread.

[00:49:52] You're a moron.

[00:49:53] I eat strawberry jelly.

[00:49:54] Dang.

[00:49:56] It's disappointing because you're missing out on the best one.

[00:49:58] Anyway, sorry.

[00:50:01] So, I start checking my stuff out and the lady who's bagging the groceries and the cashier,

[00:50:09] she's just, she's very nice, small talking, and she sees I'm wearing a baseball shirt.

[00:50:15] She says, do you play baseball?

[00:50:16] I said, well, I played through high school, but not anymore.

[00:50:21] I do some stuff in the Cape League, though.

[00:50:24] I'm an intern here this summer or whatever.

[00:50:25] I'm doing some broadcasting stuff.

[00:50:27] And she said, oh, that's cool.

[00:50:29] And she said, my son actually had a chance to play in the Cape League, but it didn't end up working out.

[00:50:35] He got injured that summer and he didn't get to come up or whatever.

[00:50:38] And I was like, oh, I was like, you know, like, sorry to hear that or whatever.

[00:50:42] And I'm figuring that, you know, her kid must have played baseball in college and then found something else to do or whatever.

[00:50:48] And I said, how long did he play?

[00:50:49] And she said, well, he's still playing.

[00:50:52] He's in the Cleveland organization right now.

[00:50:54] And I said, oh, cool.

[00:50:56] And I said, what's his name?

[00:50:57] Because we follow the minor leagues.

[00:50:59] We follow prospects.

[00:50:59] We figured maybe we'd know.

[00:51:00] And she said, oh, his name's Corey Kluber.

[00:51:03] And I was like, what?

[00:51:06] I'm sitting there.

[00:51:07] It's like, he's your kid?

[00:51:09] And she's like, yeah, I mean, I guess if you follow the sport, people know the name.

[00:51:13] I'm like, yeah, the guy's won two Cy Youngs and is like in the prime of his career.

[00:51:18] I was like, what?

[00:51:19] Like, what is happening right now?

[00:51:21] I'm thinking to myself in my head, like, what is going on?

[00:51:23] I'm thinking to myself, why is Corey Kluber's mother bagging groceries at a Cape Cod Trader Joe's?

[00:51:31] And when I told all my friends the story, the easy joke that everybody made, it's like, well, that awful contract he signed, he forces his family to still work.

[00:51:37] Like, but while the story, she was incredibly nice.

[00:51:44] I'll remember it probably forever.

[00:51:46] I remember it to this day, that story.

[00:51:48] And yeah, just since we brought up Corey Kluber, I was like, that could be a funny story to tell then the podcast.

[00:51:53] So where I forget where Corey Kluber's from.

[00:51:56] Where is he from?

[00:51:58] See, this is where like I'm struggling to make sense of this.

[00:52:01] Like Corey Kluber's from Birmingham, Alabama.

[00:52:06] Right.

[00:52:06] Right.

[00:52:07] So his mom must, yeah, his, must just be retired in Cape Cod where people do go to retire.

[00:52:14] Yeah.

[00:52:15] And maybe she just, and I would assume she just wanted something to do to fill up her time throughout the day.

[00:52:22] And she felt something like that was rewarding.

[00:52:23] You get to talk to a lot of people on a job like that.

[00:52:26] Probably, you know, probably kept her busy.

[00:52:28] And every now and then you get to drop knowledge on somebody that your son is one, two Cy Youngs in baseball.

[00:52:34] Well, wait, wait, wait.

[00:52:37] Corey Kluber resides in Massachusetts, Winchester.

[00:52:41] Oh, so there you go.

[00:52:42] But that's not near Cape Cod.

[00:52:44] But then again, like maybe he doesn't want to live right next to his mom.

[00:52:47] Right.

[00:52:48] So his parents may live somewhere different.

[00:52:50] Right.

[00:52:50] Wow.

[00:52:51] Yeah.

[00:52:51] Pretty wild.

[00:52:53] Pretty wild story.

[00:52:55] All right.

[00:52:56] I think that just about wraps up this edition of the Marine Layer Podcast.

[00:52:59] Can we start making some moves, please, Jerry?

[00:53:02] Justin, Mariners.

[00:53:03] Start making trades.

[00:53:04] Start signing people.

[00:53:05] What happens first?

[00:53:05] Your power comes on or Jerry makes a trade?

[00:53:08] I hope my power comes on because if there's a trade and I can't see it, I'm going to be pissed.

[00:53:15] Like that's been the worst part of not having power, which by the way, if you're watching on YouTube, you probably notice I'm in a different setup today.

[00:53:22] And for our interview next week, I'll be in a different setup too.

[00:53:25] Why?

[00:53:25] Because we still don't have power like I'm sure a lot of you.

[00:53:28] So the worst part about it, it's not the lack of heat.

[00:53:34] It's not the lack of light.

[00:53:35] It's the fact that you can't get on the Internet a lot of the time, which is the worst part.

[00:53:40] First world problems.

[00:53:41] Now, if it makes you feel better, Jerry, assuming his salary, is probably an Eastsider like you.

[00:53:48] So he probably doesn't have power either.

[00:53:51] Well, dog, there's this great thing called he works at T-Mobile Park.

[00:53:55] I'm guessing they have power there.

[00:53:57] Yeah.

[00:53:57] He just tells his wife, yeah, I'm going to stay here for a little bit.

[00:54:01] I'm going to work late at the office tonight as I try to trade for Alec Bohm.

[00:54:06] I don't know.

[00:54:06] Something like that.

[00:54:10] So anyway, that's the worst part because you know how fun it is to be online when trades are going down and everybody reacts and you get to see it right away?

[00:54:19] Like, you know, there's a thrill to it all.

[00:54:21] Not being online.

[00:54:22] This is a total Gen Z answer.

[00:54:24] But yes, it's a first world problem, but it sucks.

[00:54:26] Yeah, it is a Gen Z answer.

[00:54:27] But you have work to stay at, too, on the west side.

[00:54:30] That's true.

[00:54:31] So you could do that.

[00:54:32] Yeah, that's fair.

[00:54:33] Anyway, I will guess the power comes back on first.

[00:54:36] Hopefully that's the case.

[00:54:37] Anyway, hopefully moves start getting made soon as well.

[00:54:40] Again, that'll just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Layer Podcast.

[00:54:43] You guys know the drill.

[00:54:44] If you want to listen to the full-form podcast, you can do so wherever you get your audio pods.

[00:54:47] Make sure to download.

[00:54:48] Make sure to rate and review.

[00:54:50] Please leave it five stars.

[00:54:51] It helps a bunch if you do.

[00:54:53] If you're watching on YouTube, like, comment, and subscribe.

[00:54:56] Subscribing is the big one.

[00:54:57] That's the best way you can support us.

[00:54:59] On Instagram, or sorry, I should say on social media, you can find us everywhere.

[00:55:02] Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube Shorts, and Blue Sky at MarineLayerPod.

[00:55:07] That's TJ.

[00:55:08] I'm Lyle.

[00:55:09] As always, we thank you guys for tuning in.

[00:55:11] We'll talk to you soon.