Episode 197: How Do We Think The Mariners Players Are Handling This Offseason? + Steven Souza Jr. (Retired MLB OF)

[00:00:00] Welcome to episode number 197 of the Marine Layer Podcast. We welcome on former big leaguer and former Mariner Steven Souza Jr. We talk about the Mariners offseason, some of their hitting changes, their need for some clubhouse leadership, and we dive into a little bit of a future issue in Major League Baseball, the salary cap and how it would impact an offseason like this.

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[00:01:19] And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network.

[00:01:25] Recording on Monday afternoon, January 6th. Lyle, have the Mariners made a move yet?

[00:01:33] Does a bear shit in the woods?

[00:01:39] Well, I would say yes, but the answer to my question is not yes.

[00:01:44] Oh, I just messed that up, didn't I? Damn.

[00:01:47] The answer is...

[00:01:48] Wah, wah, wah, wah, wah.

[00:01:51] Damn it.

[00:01:52] Yes, they have not made a move.

[00:01:54] Yeah, I really messed that one up.

[00:01:56] I thought I was going to be so witty right there and come in just hot, and I totally messed it up.

[00:02:01] What's worse so far, that joke or the Mariners offseason?

[00:02:05] Well, I mean, at least everybody that just heard that total, total just flop of a joke only had to hear it for five seconds.

[00:02:15] The Mariners offseason is now dragged out for four months?

[00:02:18] No, a little over three months, and they have still not made a move.

[00:02:22] I can hear the collective groan or cringe of everyone listening, or the eyebrow raises like, did Lyle just say that?

[00:02:31] Well, again, they had to hear it for five seconds.

[00:02:34] The good news is, there's only five seconds.

[00:02:37] This Mariners offseason, again, October, November, December, we're now in January, we're getting up on three and a half months here.

[00:02:44] You can summarize it in five seconds.

[00:02:47] Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[00:02:49] Okay, I got a serious question.

[00:02:52] What do you think Cal Raleigh's thinking right now?

[00:02:57] Seriously.

[00:02:58] What's going through Cal Raleigh's mind right now as this offseason's unfolded?

[00:03:02] You're talking about a guy who, at the end of 2023, made statements that were very public, saying,

[00:03:10] we need more talented players on this roster to help push us over the top.

[00:03:15] We need it.

[00:03:16] Since that time, they have salary-dumped Eugenio Suarez, salary-dumped Jared Kelnick,

[00:03:23] brought in a ton of players last offseason that, aside from Luke Raleigh, were not good enough,

[00:03:28] and now here in 2024, after a season in which they missed the playoffs, again, have gone into an offseason,

[00:03:34] made no big league acquisitions, and set a made-up $15 million budget that is totally self-imposed for the offseason.

[00:03:47] Seriously.

[00:03:47] How are you feeling if you're Cal Raleigh right now?

[00:03:49] I know you switched agencies, but you've got to be pissed.

[00:03:54] Cal Raleigh can get pissed, but he's going to approach this differently than he approached it last time.

[00:04:00] Because everything he's going to feel, he doesn't need to say publicly.

[00:04:04] Because as we noticed, Lyle, him saying something publicly didn't change how the Mariners operated last offseason.

[00:04:11] I don't think they felt more pressure because their players were unhappy with the players they were bringing in.

[00:04:16] I think they made the moves they needed to make out of baseball decisions, not does it make Cal Raleigh happy.

[00:04:23] I think Cal Raleigh, just speculating here, feels the exact same.

[00:04:26] They haven't given him any reason not to.

[00:04:29] I'd say the only difference between this season and last season is that there's more responsibility on the current players on the roster for the team underperforming,

[00:04:36] rather than the people upstairs not investing enough money into it.

[00:04:41] Because, I mean, objectively, last season, Lyle, both those things can be true, right?

[00:04:45] By you saying he feels the same, do you mean that he is still unhappy?

[00:04:51] I would say he's unhappy they have not won enough games to make the playoffs the last three seasons in a row.

[00:04:56] That would be what I'm talking about.

[00:04:59] Yeah, well, two seasons, but yeah.

[00:05:01] Well, 22 would be one, 23 would be two, 24 would be three.

[00:05:05] No, they made it in 22.

[00:05:07] I know, but they should have made it three seasons in a row based off of a number of factors.

[00:05:12] Whether they, you know, crapped the bed in extra innings in 2023 or last year where they had too many players underperforming collectively at the same time.

[00:05:21] They just have not made it.

[00:05:23] Now, again, so speculating Cal Raleigh's probably really pissed off right now and he thinks the team should be spending a lot more money to get a lot better.

[00:05:30] I'd say the difference between last offseason and this offseason is they did spend some money last offseason after clearing some away.

[00:05:36] And it was a big chunk on the players not playing well enough that they're not in the postseason this year.

[00:05:42] Therefore, like how does it look in Cal's perspective?

[00:05:45] If you say the same thing again and you're throwing you're essentially throwing your teammates under the bus intentionally or not going into this next season.

[00:05:54] Oh, he won't talk about it publicly again.

[00:05:57] Right.

[00:05:57] That's why we're speculating on how he's feeling.

[00:05:59] And I'm sure he's feeling unhappy that they've missed the playoffs the last two years.

[00:06:03] And by the way, they spent a little bit of money last offseason.

[00:06:07] Wasn't like they spent a ton.

[00:06:10] Payroll went up, what, 10 million bucks?

[00:06:13] After they cleared all that stuff away.

[00:06:15] Yeah, exactly.

[00:06:15] I'm not giving them credit for turning around their philosophies and all of a sudden start investing a ton of money into payroll.

[00:06:23] But they did go on ad last offseason.

[00:06:26] Would you take last offseason right now, like at this point?

[00:06:29] Because it would have been a year ago yesterday.

[00:06:32] In the same day, they made the Robbie Ray trade and they traded for Luke Raley.

[00:06:36] Like they had made noticeable moves at this point of last offseason.

[00:06:40] We're sitting here now waiting for the first big league transaction of the offseason.

[00:06:47] In terms of movement, yeah, I'd take last offseason because we were kept on our toes.

[00:06:52] Right now, everybody's just waiting around.

[00:06:54] The inactivity that's gone on this winter is wild.

[00:06:58] I can't imagine.

[00:07:00] In summary, Lyle, I can't imagine any core player who signed for multiple years on this roster feels good about how the Mariners are going about their business.

[00:07:08] It is not a good sales pitch for staying in Seattle in the future.

[00:07:13] Because the players see all the rumors we do that once these players get close to free agency or they sign in free agency and they're making too much money, that they're going to get traded away to save money.

[00:07:24] That's not an incentive for a player to sign a long-term extension somewhere.

[00:07:28] If you have to look over your shoulder that you're going to get traded in that home you just bought is now going to sit empty.

[00:07:34] Mm-hmm.

[00:07:35] It's not an endorsement at all.

[00:07:37] Not great.

[00:07:39] It stinks because you should be selling the opposite.

[00:07:41] Players should want to come here.

[00:07:44] We just talked about it with Steven Souza Jr.

[00:07:46] You'll hear coming up here in a little bit about, you know, there are guys who love coming here during the summer and playing baseball here and the crowd's great.

[00:07:55] And it's a fantastic place to live when it's warm.

[00:07:58] It's sunny.

[00:07:58] It's in baseball season.

[00:08:00] Like, it's all right out there in front of you.

[00:08:02] And what's so appealing about this market?

[00:08:04] But what's not appealing is that if you never feel comfortable in that place based on the baseball decision-making of the team, then it just kind of rubs you the wrong way.

[00:08:17] It's super weird.

[00:08:18] Don't you remember?

[00:08:19] Am I crazy or was there some quote once upon a time that said, when generational players hit free agency, we're going to have incredible spending power to go out and attempt to get those guys?

[00:08:30] Hmm.

[00:08:31] I believe those were Jerry DePoto's words.

[00:08:33] Yeah.

[00:08:34] Yeah.

[00:08:34] And those were Jerry DePoto's words because he got that signal from up above.

[00:08:39] He is not putting that quote out there if he was told otherwise.

[00:08:44] Mm-hmm.

[00:08:45] That simple.

[00:08:45] Here we are.

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[00:09:48] If you guys want a little bit of a peek behind the curtain, Lyle and I earlier this afternoon spent about 25 minutes recording and talking about Gavin Lux.

[00:09:56] However, he was just traded to the Cincinnati Reds.

[00:10:00] Lyle?

[00:10:00] Well, cups of the rosé.

[00:10:06] The Mariners are making no moves.

[00:10:08] However you want to sing the rest of it.

[00:10:10] Thank you, Drake.

[00:10:11] Dude!

[00:10:13] What are we doing?

[00:10:16] Reds really wanted him.

[00:10:17] The Reds, I will note for those of you who forgot about Haesung Kim's list, the Reds were also made an offer for him.

[00:10:25] So I'd imagine they were in the same bucket of looking for a left-handed infielder.

[00:10:30] And like the Mariners, when they noticed a left-handed infielder was available, they went out and they traded a former third-round pick in Mike Serrata.

[00:10:38] And they traded a competitive balance A pick for him.

[00:10:42] It's a steep price for Gavin Lux.

[00:10:44] I think that's about the top level of offer that you could send the Dodgers way for Gavin Lux.

[00:10:53] It was not nothing.

[00:10:55] In the previous recording, we mentioned that I theorized the trade could be some international slot money for Roki Sasaki if the Dodgers felt like they needed more.

[00:11:06] Or it could be something on the lower level.

[00:11:10] But the Reds sent a pretty high-level package there to the Dodgers for two years of Gavin Lux.

[00:11:16] Now let's just note, before I pass it back to you, Lyle, again, this is a value the Mariners could have easily matched.

[00:11:24] They have a comp A pick.

[00:11:26] Where's their pick?

[00:11:27] It's in the 30s.

[00:11:28] It's 33?

[00:11:30] That sounds right.

[00:11:31] It's in the 30s.

[00:11:32] It's in the 30s.

[00:11:33] And I saw Joe Doyle tweeting about this.

[00:11:35] He says, after Santander signs, this Dodgers pick might slide outside of the 30s into the 40s, but the early 40s.

[00:11:43] So that's about where the pick is.

[00:11:45] And the prospect equivalent of a Mike Serrata, who was rated as right around the number 50 prospect in this past year's draft at a Northeastern,

[00:11:55] is a really productive college hitter.

[00:11:57] So since he was right there in the 50s, it's kind of close to the value of Typeat.

[00:12:04] So I'll conclude that from what I gathered online and people speculating.

[00:12:09] The package from the Mariners for Gavin Lux, if you're asking yourself whether or not you would have done this trade,

[00:12:15] would be Typeat and that comp A pick.

[00:12:17] So let me ask you, Lyle.

[00:12:19] Would you have done it for that package?

[00:12:23] That is a little bit of a hefty package for a player like Gavin Lux.

[00:12:28] Now, I will say I think Pete's upside is higher and probably much higher than what Serrata's is,

[00:12:33] just in terms of Typeat's much better athlete.

[00:12:36] He's much younger, more versatile, etc.

[00:12:40] So yeah, is that a little bit of a hefty package?

[00:12:42] Sure.

[00:12:43] The problem here is if you're the Mariners, what are you willing to give up this winner?

[00:12:52] They won't spend money because they say it's not a smart strategy.

[00:12:55] We have to get one into every episode, obviously.

[00:12:57] So there we go.

[00:12:58] Not a smart strategy to spend money on free agents, so they tell us.

[00:13:02] They won't give up prospects, or well, one, we don't really know if they'd give up high-end prospects.

[00:13:08] They say they would, but at the same time, no teams want prospects for proven players this offseason,

[00:13:13] so the Mariners can't make that trade.

[00:13:15] So they can't and or won't do that.

[00:13:18] They won't give up big league talent for other big league talent because they're not doing things like trading Luis Castillo.

[00:13:23] They're not trading other guys off their big league roster.

[00:13:25] They're not going to trade draft picks for big league talent, or comp picks in this case.

[00:13:31] So what are you willing to give up?

[00:13:36] That is my question.

[00:13:38] How long are we going to keep circling and circling this offseason

[00:13:43] and just seeing every player that fits the Mariners go off the board

[00:13:47] and then continuing to not make any additions to the roster?

[00:13:51] You have to give something up to acquire players.

[00:13:55] So far, they've been willing to give up essentially nothing,

[00:13:58] and you wonder why they have not made any moves this winter.

[00:14:02] That's a good question.

[00:14:04] Can I push back on it a little bit, though?

[00:14:06] We don't know what the Mariners offered.

[00:14:08] Maybe they did offer the comp A pick in Taipei.

[00:14:10] The Dodgers, for a little bit of backstory, drafted Serrata out of high school in 2021.

[00:14:15] They really liked him.

[00:14:16] They liked him a lot, and according to some reports,

[00:14:20] they were frustrated he didn't sign with them.

[00:14:21] So as soon as he comes available in another route, they go out and acquire him.

[00:14:27] Maybe the Dodgers just liked Serrata more than whatever the Mariners could offer

[00:14:31] if it wasn't going to be one of their outrageously overpaid,

[00:14:34] an overpay of a prospect like Colt Emerson, for example,

[00:14:38] because the Dodgers wouldn't prefer Mike Serrata over Colt Emerson.

[00:14:42] But the Mariners are never going to do that.

[00:14:45] Why don't you stay a little realistic here?

[00:14:47] That's never happening in a million years.

[00:14:48] But that's just an example.

[00:14:50] Like, really, what if the Dodgers liked Mike Serrata over Taipei,

[00:14:53] even if Taipei's a better prospect?

[00:14:56] Is that the Mariners' fault?

[00:14:58] What you're saying could very well all be true.

[00:15:01] And in that case, no.

[00:15:03] This is why I'm going to push back again.

[00:15:06] If the Mariners already had guys in the fold,

[00:15:08] if they had traded for Alec Boehm to play third base and you had signed...

[00:15:13] Now, Hasan Kim's not the right example because it would be second base that was open.

[00:15:17] If you had Boehm to play third base and you had gotten Carlos Santana to play first,

[00:15:21] you were looking for another second baseman, but it's not a guarantee.

[00:15:23] There was a chance you were going to run out Demo, Rivas, Bliss, and just wait for Cole Young to get up.

[00:15:28] I wouldn't be so up in arms about this.

[00:15:30] I'm up in arms about this because it is into January.

[00:15:33] We're now getting close to the middle of January.

[00:15:36] And there has not been one big league acquisition this offseason by this team.

[00:15:41] They have none of their three infield spots filled that they need to get filled.

[00:15:45] This is why I'm getting pissed off.

[00:15:46] Yes, maybe that package is a little bit high,

[00:15:48] but you have to agree to give up something to add to your big league roster,

[00:15:53] whether it's money, whether it's prospects, whether it's draft picks,

[00:15:56] whether it's other big leaguers.

[00:15:57] Pick an avenue.

[00:15:59] How long do we have a round to wait?

[00:16:01] Every single guy is going to go off the board.

[00:16:04] Look at how frustrated we're getting about Gavin Lux getting traded.

[00:16:07] This is where we're at in this offseason because so many guys have gone off the board.

[00:16:11] They have slim pickings left,

[00:16:13] and we know they're not going to sign guys like Santander and Bregman.

[00:16:16] Pick an avenue.

[00:16:18] I would be curious to know what the Mariners offered.

[00:16:21] If they were aggressive, what level of aggressive were they for Gavin Lux?

[00:16:27] I understand the frustration because I'm also extremely frustrated too.

[00:16:32] This might be just another bad luck, other team preference scenario in that case.

[00:16:37] But again, fans don't really care about that, and nor should they.

[00:16:41] Because the desperation at some point will set in for the Mariners

[00:16:45] when they realize they need to go acquire players.

[00:16:48] And they might have to just outbid another team and be uncomfortable.

[00:16:53] It is time to be uncomfortable because some of these options out there are whittling down.

[00:17:00] And the odds of you getting better this offseason, as we talked about,

[00:17:05] are going down pretty quickly if not completely gone at this point.

[00:17:11] We're mad about Gavin Lux.

[00:17:12] This is the funniest thing ever.

[00:17:14] This is pretty funny.

[00:17:16] It was worth a win and a half last year, and we're ready to have a meltdown about this.

[00:17:22] This is great.

[00:17:23] A contending team, and a podcast about a contending team,

[00:17:27] near melting down over Gavin Lux.

[00:17:31] Look at what they've done to us this offseason.

[00:17:34] Look at what they've done.

[00:17:36] Here's one thing I will add to the proposed trade package

[00:17:40] that we put out that the Mariners could have offered

[00:17:44] and the Dodgers just turned down because they wanted Serrata.

[00:17:47] If you are out there, I just want to lay this statement out there.

[00:17:50] If you are out there and you see a comp A pick and Ty Pete,

[00:17:55] and you say, eh, that's too much for Gavin Lux.

[00:17:57] I don't want that.

[00:17:58] Given the current situation of the Mariners,

[00:17:59] if you truly would not do that package from a value perspective,

[00:18:04] well, I respect that you are looking at the value of everything,

[00:18:09] and you want them to be right, and you want them to make a fair deal, da-da-da-da-da.

[00:18:13] Okay, fine.

[00:18:15] Like, you have your logic and you have your reasoning,

[00:18:19] but why then do you acquire valuable assets if you're not willing to give them up?

[00:18:24] Yeah, it's like life.

[00:18:26] You want valuable assets in your collection,

[00:18:28] so then when you need something in the future,

[00:18:32] you have something to, you know, like get a bank loaners,

[00:18:36] like something like that, right?

[00:18:38] And it's the same thing with baseball.

[00:18:40] You have these assets in your farm system,

[00:18:42] or potentially in the future with this comp A pick,

[00:18:46] that I feel like you should be willing to give up.

[00:18:49] And think about it in this perspective too,

[00:18:51] that when's the earliest that a comp A pick in Taipeet will give you contribution to your big league roster?

[00:18:57] Is it 2027 or 2028?

[00:19:00] Like, that's the earliest right there that those assets would actually bring you value to your top product.

[00:19:08] If that's the case, as we've talked about,

[00:19:12] 2027 and 2028 should not be in the minds of anybody.

[00:19:15] 2025 should be in the minds of everybody.

[00:19:17] So just think about that from a value perspective,

[00:19:21] when you consider whether or not you would have done that trade.

[00:19:24] Yeah, and we love Taipeet.

[00:19:26] That's our guy.

[00:19:27] We're rooting our tails off for him to be a star.

[00:19:29] But we're just talking about value of trades

[00:19:32] and the Mariners needing to upgrade their big league roster in 2025.

[00:19:37] That's what we're evaluating here.

[00:19:38] Yes, that is a little bit of a hefty package.

[00:19:41] And again, if the Mariners had more pieces in the fold right now,

[00:19:44] I would say, okay, I understand why they didn't do that.

[00:19:47] But when do you plan to actually make said upgrades?

[00:19:54] You've said publicly you're going to make upgrades.

[00:19:55] Are you?

[00:19:56] As we sit right now, if opening day rolls around,

[00:20:00] here's what the infield looks like across the dirt.

[00:20:03] You have Luke Raley and Tyler Locklear platooning at first.

[00:20:06] You have some combination of Ryan Bliss and Leo Rivas at second.

[00:20:11] You have J.P. Crawford at short, your most solidified player who's coming off a really bad year.

[00:20:16] And then Dylan Moore at third base until Ben Williamson comes up to relieve him

[00:20:22] and he goes back to a utility role until Cole Young comes up to take more time away from Bliss and Rivas at second base.

[00:20:28] Seriously, think about that.

[00:20:29] Right now, on the 6th of January, when you're listening to this, the 8th of January, that's your infield right now.

[00:20:36] Locklear, Raley, Bliss, Rivas, J.P. Crawford, Dylan Moore, maybe Ben Williamson soon enough.

[00:20:44] You call that a championship infield?

[00:20:46] I don't.

[00:20:48] Does this make any more Reds available?

[00:20:51] Maybe.

[00:20:52] Maybe this might be.

[00:20:53] The Reds reported they're going to use Lux as a super utility guy, so I don't know.

[00:20:58] Maybe that makes somebody like Spencer Steer more available.

[00:21:02] I would at least be open-minded.

[00:21:04] I don't love that idea.

[00:21:07] But, again, you're running out of options at this point.

[00:21:09] You need somebody to play the corner spots.

[00:21:12] Noelvi.

[00:21:12] Maybe.

[00:21:13] Wouldn't that be hilarious?

[00:21:15] It would be pretty funny.

[00:21:16] You think they're going to take Juicer Boy back?

[00:21:18] Oh, maybe that's mean.

[00:21:21] Well, at this rate, do they have the moral high ground option?

[00:21:26] But I don't think the Reds would trade away Noelvi Marte.

[00:21:30] Probably not.

[00:21:31] It's a little bit too early into his career.

[00:21:34] But it does shovel some things around now that Lux is there.

[00:21:39] Whatever holdup there could be for other teams would clear the way a little bit.

[00:21:45] I would like to stress this.

[00:21:48] There are a lot of options off the board.

[00:21:50] The Mariners' ability to upgrade all around their infield has gone down significantly since the start of the offseason.

[00:21:57] However, I'll remind you, the offseason is not over yet.

[00:22:01] There's still, what, is it five weeks until pitchers and catchers at this rate?

[00:22:05] About that.

[00:22:07] So there's still some time.

[00:22:09] Not all hope is lost, though it has gone down.

[00:22:14] So deep breath.

[00:22:15] Lyle, ready?

[00:22:16] Breathe.

[00:22:21] I'm sorry, Noelvi, by the way.

[00:22:23] That was mean to call you the juicer or juicer boy.

[00:22:26] However, you did get suspended for PEDs.

[00:22:29] So it's not like it's not facts.

[00:22:31] Yeah.

[00:22:32] If nothing else happens before Friday, which on the pace we're on these days doesn't feel like anything will.

[00:22:37] If that's the case, there's some other guys that are out in the rumor mill again.

[00:22:41] Tristan Casas is out there again.

[00:22:42] He's reportedly still available.

[00:22:44] Luisa Rides has been out there a little bit.

[00:22:46] But Yohan Moncada is still out there.

[00:22:48] We're probably not going to talk about that much because I don't want any part of that, just like Haesong Kim.

[00:22:53] Anyway, we will touch on more of those topics on Friday.

[00:22:56] We will certainly touch on Casas and spend some time on him again.

[00:22:59] We will spend some time on Arise.

[00:23:00] But we did just want to note here that those names are out there again and they're kind of circling.

[00:23:05] So we'll get to that later in the week.

[00:23:08] You ready for the Arise Dylan Moore discussion?

[00:23:11] Oh, boy.

[00:23:13] Yeah, we're going to have to set some people straight.

[00:23:16] I saw some takes on Mariner's Twitter this week saying, why wouldn't people want another Ichiro?

[00:23:21] It's like, guys, stop it.

[00:23:23] It's not.

[00:23:23] It's not.

[00:23:25] Here's the short synopsis before we get to Steven Souza here.

[00:23:28] Luisa Rides is not Ichiro.

[00:23:30] Nope.

[00:23:31] No.

[00:23:32] And I would say nothing even close.

[00:23:33] If you want to hear more about the guy, well, tune into Friday's podcast because that's where we'll talk about him.

[00:23:39] All right.

[00:23:40] Quick pause.

[00:23:40] Guys, we're going to talk to you guys about our friends over at Pogaccia's Pub 85.

[00:23:43] That's over in Kirkland.

[00:23:44] You guys know.

[00:23:45] We're going to continue saying it.

[00:23:46] Awesome place to hang out.

[00:23:48] Spend some time with your friends.

[00:23:49] Watch some games.

[00:23:50] Guys, the NFL playoffs are starting this week.

[00:23:51] There's college football playoff games this week.

[00:23:53] ASU still got robbed.

[00:23:54] Fix was in.

[00:23:55] Money was down.

[00:23:55] But there are still other college football playoff games that are going to be going on.

[00:24:00] So head over to Pub 85.

[00:24:01] Watch them with your friends.

[00:24:02] Have some great food.

[00:24:03] And if you go during happy hour, drink specials.

[00:24:06] You can't beat them.

[00:24:06] It's 2 to 6 p.m. happy hours, Monday through Friday.

[00:24:10] Drinks are three and four bucks.

[00:24:12] Come on.

[00:24:12] Three and four dollar drinks for four hours straight, 2 to 6 p.m.

[00:24:17] From Monday through Friday.

[00:24:18] Head over there.

[00:24:19] Go find a game to watch with your friends.

[00:24:20] Get over there and get going early before the games start.

[00:24:23] All of that is over at Pogaccia's Pub 85 in Kirkland.

[00:24:28] Steven Souza laid out a lot of very interesting things.

[00:24:34] Now recurring guest.

[00:24:35] Thankful that the former Mariner can now be part of our recurring guest club.

[00:24:39] It's interesting to get his perspective on the Mariners offseason.

[00:24:42] But we also talked about some deeper, more thought-provoking topics too that I thought were very interesting.

[00:24:48] It's good to get a former player's perspective on the philosophical hitting change the Mariners underwent during the season last year.

[00:24:54] And also, not totally relevant to this season.

[00:24:58] But we talked a little bit about the impacts of the potential salary cap in Major League Baseball coming up here in the future.

[00:25:06] And how that would impact a team like the Mariners going forward.

[00:25:10] And the competitive balance of the league as a whole.

[00:25:12] I thought it was very interesting.

[00:25:14] I think Steven does some really awesome work and he always brings really good insight to this podcast and to wherever he goes on.

[00:25:21] So, totally recommend you guys stick around and listen to this.

[00:25:24] He's awesome.

[00:25:25] I've walked away from both our conversations with him saying,

[00:25:29] He's really smart.

[00:25:30] He knows his stuff.

[00:25:31] He's a fascinating listen.

[00:25:34] So, it's cool that we've gotten to know him over the last few months.

[00:25:37] And we love having him on the pod.

[00:25:38] And hopefully you guys love the interview.

[00:25:40] We won't keep you guys any longer now.

[00:25:41] Let's get you to that interview with Steven Souza Jr.

[00:25:46] All right.

[00:25:47] We've got our friend Steven Souza on with us.

[00:25:49] Recurring guest.

[00:25:50] Eight-year big leaguer.

[00:25:52] Now owner of Base by Pros.

[00:25:54] He's also a baseball analyst on KJR.

[00:25:57] Steven, are you as bored as we are this offseason?

[00:26:01] What's keeping you busy?

[00:26:03] You know, seeing massive contracts like Juan Soto's getting and watching the Dodgers try to become the Monstars.

[00:26:13] That's about all that's keeping me busy this winter.

[00:26:18] Because, you know, you obviously go into this winter expecting, you know, Seattle to do something.

[00:26:22] But it just quite hasn't happened.

[00:26:25] You know, I know there's a lot of irons in the fire, if you will.

[00:26:29] And I know there's been some attempts, but man, it's been a little bit of a boring offseason, right?

[00:26:34] And then to watch.

[00:26:35] And I think everybody can agree that the expectations haven't been reached.

[00:26:39] And that's not to say it's not going to be a good year.

[00:26:41] But yeah, sitting here twiddling our thumbs in January waiting for something to move.

[00:26:45] I don't know about you guys.

[00:26:47] We all understand at this point the reason why there hasn't been a move made.

[00:26:51] But the result of it, the fact that they couldn't get...

[00:26:55] We talked about...

[00:26:57] We were DMing earlier this week about Haesung Kim.

[00:26:59] That being an option at a low cost.

[00:27:02] There was Carlos Santana where the Mariners offered more years and more money.

[00:27:05] And he ultimately doesn't decide on the Mariners.

[00:27:07] The results of all of it, have the results surprised you that they hadn't been able to land at least one of these guys that they've been in on?

[00:27:19] Yes and no.

[00:27:20] And I know that's such a political answer.

[00:27:22] But I say yes because this team is really good.

[00:27:27] I think if you look around the league, there's the framework here for any free agent to come in that has aspirations of a World Series is there.

[00:27:36] And so you would think that it would attract at least some of these guys to come in and try and help and take them over the edge to win a World Series.

[00:27:46] And Santana obviously knows a lot of these guys here.

[00:27:49] So that would have been a great sign.

[00:27:51] But then when he does it and when you see the reports that there was a two-year offer made for him and he turned it down, you begin to scratch your head a little bit.

[00:27:59] Like what continuously happens here that is pushing these guys away?

[00:28:04] And so is it the approach?

[00:28:08] Is it the management?

[00:28:09] Like what is the reason?

[00:28:11] Is it the ownership is unwilling to spend?

[00:28:13] Because listen, Jerry DiPoto is a very intelligent man, right?

[00:28:19] And John is also an intelligent man, right?

[00:28:22] So I think that these guys don't get where they're at by just kind of throwing it together and just hoping it all works out.

[00:28:29] And so you just kind of take a step back and wonder what is happening inside the philosophy that's not letting these guys come in here.

[00:28:37] And why isn't there any adjustments to do that?

[00:28:39] Because, you know, as a fan, you do get frustrated.

[00:28:43] And so, like I said, I'm not surprised based on, I think, some of the reputations in the past.

[00:28:48] But I would have hoped with the change of Dan Wilson and some philosophy changes inside the offense that, yeah, they would have snagged up some guys by now.

[00:28:59] Steve, we want to ask you about some of those philosophy changes.

[00:29:02] But I'm curious, so you as, let's say you're a hypothetical free agent this offseason as a hitter and Seattle reaches out to your agent.

[00:29:10] What goes through your mind in thinking about, like, what would make me consider playing in this place?

[00:29:17] Like, what do they have to sell me on?

[00:29:21] Yeah, I think you can sell me on a young rotation and World Series aspirations, the consistency and success that they're building towards.

[00:29:28] Now, I would love to see some, you know, over the past couple of years signings.

[00:29:35] And I think they tried, right?

[00:29:36] Like, they tried to sign Mitch Garver last year.

[00:29:38] That just didn't end up really good.

[00:29:40] The year before, they tried to sign A.J. Pollock.

[00:29:42] So, when I would meet in person with these teams, I would want to hear from your voice and see the genuineness of, like, are you really going for it?

[00:29:51] Do you really believe in these guys?

[00:29:53] Do you believe in me coming in here and helping you?

[00:29:55] Or is this just kind of like you're going through the motions because this is what you've been asked to do?

[00:30:00] You know, and guys can really feel that.

[00:30:02] And I talk to guys around the league, even that are signing now.

[00:30:04] And when they meet with them, they can feel when either the GM, the ownership, whoever meets with them, they want to go for it.

[00:30:11] And so, depending on where you're at in your career and what your expectations and goals are, which aren't the same for everyone, right?

[00:30:17] Justin Turner's expectations are a lot different than Juan Soto's, right?

[00:30:21] And so, I think if you're trying to get someone like, let's just go big here, Juan Soto, you have to put together a plan of how you're going to be successful over the next several years and put that forward.

[00:30:32] Or Roki Sasaki, you know, how are you going to help them get better?

[00:30:36] And so, I always wanted to know that.

[00:30:38] And I wanted to see you put your money where your mouth was.

[00:30:41] And I always could, I could tell, and my agent could really tell, if the GM or whoever, you know, because you don't always talk with the GM in these meetings.

[00:30:50] It could be Justin Hollander or whoever it might be.

[00:30:53] You just want to see, like, are you on board with it as well?

[00:30:58] And if there's a disconnect there, the players feel that.

[00:31:01] Because players have great feel.

[00:31:02] Not all of them, but most of them have great feel.

[00:31:04] And they understand, like, what they're getting into.

[00:31:08] And I think if you've played in the game long enough, that can move you away at times.

[00:31:14] And so, without being able to meet the guys and whatnot, that's kind of your first imprint of the organization.

[00:31:21] During these meetings, where would the park come up in this discussion as a hitter?

[00:31:27] You don't really have those discussions with the GM.

[00:31:31] I would say you have it more with your agent behind the scenes.

[00:31:34] And you're already very aware, right?

[00:31:36] Like, if you're a free agent, you've obviously played at least six years.

[00:31:40] So, you've gone around to the league and seen, okay, where do I like to play?

[00:31:44] This is fun.

[00:31:45] This atmosphere.

[00:31:46] One thing you can say about Seattle is the atmosphere is amazing.

[00:31:49] I think guys continuously come here and say they love coming here in the summer.

[00:31:53] The ballpark is beautiful.

[00:31:54] The fans are awesome.

[00:31:56] They're always loud and packed out.

[00:31:58] And so, that's a huge draw for free agents to come.

[00:32:01] The ballpark, you're already predetermined in your mind.

[00:32:04] You know, where you're at.

[00:32:05] And so, if the money that you want to get per year supersedes that, where it's like, hey, listen, we know it's going to be tough offensively here.

[00:32:13] We will overpay that.

[00:32:14] Have the expectations.

[00:32:16] And allow you, because we'll take the offense that you can give us.

[00:32:19] You know, and I think that would be a reason for, like, to bring Teoscar back.

[00:32:24] Like, hey, if we wanted to bring Teoscar back, you're going to have to pay him more because it was tough for him here.

[00:32:29] Right?

[00:32:30] And so, to say, like, you know, I know it was one of your down years, but we're going to have to overpay you.

[00:32:34] So, before you even get in those discussions, you've got a pretty good idea of what that ballpark looks like.

[00:32:42] And you're probably having the discussion with your agent.

[00:32:44] Like, you know, they're going to have to show me something above and beyond for me to take a step back offensively because, you know, it doesn't always lead to more years.

[00:32:54] Right?

[00:32:54] You go to a good offensive place, you're going to buy some extra years at the end of your career.

[00:32:58] So, if you're coming here and it's a seven-year deal, whatever it might be, you're at the risk of having a down year and the next year being tough on your salary.

[00:33:09] All right.

[00:33:09] So, let me follow up with two questions.

[00:33:11] Are you just using Teoscar as an example there or are you kind of insinuating, oh, he would have thought about coming back to Seattle?

[00:33:18] Because I guess I always assumed there was no way he'd ever come back.

[00:33:21] Yeah, I'm more using that as an example.

[00:33:23] I think that, listen, if they would have offered him and said, we love you here, we're going to give you three years for $90 million, I have a hard time believing that Teoscar would have said, like, you know what, I'm going to go test a one-year deal somewhere else.

[00:33:37] Right?

[00:33:37] I mean, that works out for almost everyone there.

[00:33:40] You keep the offensive guy, he gets way overpaid, and he gets a couple extra years, which don't hinder him for free.

[00:33:47] Now, that doesn't always work out that way, and I don't know the logistics behind it.

[00:33:52] But I guess what I'm getting at is, like, you know what your hindrance is.

[00:33:57] It's going to be easy to get pitchers here, right, because they develop well.

[00:34:00] Pitchers have good ERAs.

[00:34:02] They have a great starting rotation.

[00:34:03] There's not a lot of pressure for anybody to come here and save the organization.

[00:34:06] And so, you're going to get that luxury to be able to get kind of the market that wants to come here.

[00:34:12] As far as offense, you're an uphill battle.

[00:34:15] So, you're going to have to reach out and be above and beyond on whatever the market says.

[00:34:20] And so, I think that's risky when you see in Jerry's history of, like, he hasn't signed a lot of great offensive players since he was really in Anaheim, right, where he swung and missed on Josh Hamilton, I think he brought in.

[00:34:32] And there's probably some PTSD and some feel for, like, man, I can really control the pitching staff, and I know I'm really good at that.

[00:34:42] And so, it's a huge risk to say, like, I'm going to pay above and beyond with any of these guys.

[00:34:48] So, my second follow-up to that is, while we're on the topic of off-season targets and who the Mariners could still acquire,

[00:34:55] is there anybody on your mind out there who you feel like would be a great fit for this team in this ballpark?

[00:35:01] Or if it's not a specific player, is there a certain type of player you think these guys should be going after to fill what is three open infield spots right now?

[00:35:10] Yeah, man. I thought that the trade market could have helped them at this point by now, and nothing's really filled through.

[00:35:18] I thought that Paul Goldschmidt would have been really good in a bounce back here.

[00:35:22] I think he's much better than that year that he put in St. Louis, and he's going to be really good for the Yankees, along with some really good veteran presence.

[00:35:31] He's one of the best leaders in the clubhouse.

[00:35:34] I thought he would have been awesome to have at first base and fill that hole.

[00:35:38] I still think they could probably go get J.D. Martinez and just have lower expectations of him.

[00:35:43] He's kind of a Justin Turner where there's going to be a greater impact inside the clubhouse.

[00:35:50] You know, I think that the caveat with that is where they're finding, to me, what I look at in this roster,

[00:35:56] they're finding with Hanager and Garver, you're ending up putting three dead spots on the roster, right?

[00:36:03] Where it's like Hanager and Garver are probably going to DH a lot back and forth, and that's two righties.

[00:36:09] And then your first baseman, you've got to try to find someone that can play every single day.

[00:36:14] So, look, I think we all want Pete Alonso to come here.

[00:36:18] That's probably not going to happen, but I think where they can fill it in is get creative with someone like Anthony Santander,

[00:36:25] who's got some left-handed power, right?

[00:36:29] Really good player, shown a history of being able to be successful in this league.

[00:36:35] And then, you know, just unfortunately where you're at in the market,

[00:36:38] you're going to have to take a shot at third base with somebody that's like really been down the last couple of years.

[00:36:43] You know, I saw the reports on Juan Moncada, and I don't think that's the answer.

[00:36:50] I think everybody can agree with that, that that's not the answer inside the infield.

[00:36:53] But, you know, when you get this deep in the offseason and you don't have a great plan,

[00:36:58] I think you're forced to just kind of make these decisions, you know?

[00:37:01] Otherwise, it's someone like Brandon Drury or whoever you can piece together

[00:37:07] that can kind of just keep everything afloat.

[00:37:09] But, you know, I really like that deal for Tristan Kassas and Masatika Shohida,

[00:37:15] if that's how you say his name.

[00:37:16] I don't know why it didn't come through, but, yeah, like I said,

[00:37:21] it's getting thinner and thinner as the days go by.

[00:37:24] Well, it seems like Kassas at least is still available from the Red Sox perspective.

[00:37:28] So I don't know if that would be dead yet because there's still,

[00:37:33] I'd say there still is a level of desperation for the Mariners that they could reach

[00:37:38] within the next month if they so choose.

[00:37:41] And thankfully, they could get an everyday player at first base.

[00:37:45] I do want to ask you about Haesung Kim because we talked about him a lot last week

[00:37:50] and the Mariners were in on him and didn't end up getting him.

[00:37:54] He ended up choosing the Dodgers.

[00:37:56] Is that the, at this point of the offseason, a type of player the Mariners should target?

[00:38:01] We had Luke Arkins on last week and he said Mariners could invest a lot more

[00:38:06] in their utility players to strengthen their bench and such like that.

[00:38:09] Do you feel like that type of player would increase this roster to a level that they need to be at?

[00:38:16] Yes and no.

[00:38:17] I think at this point you're getting creative, right?

[00:38:20] You know, all these players now are going to come with huge risks.

[00:38:25] And I think a player like Kim, you just don't know.

[00:38:29] The defensive value there is amazing.

[00:38:31] Like he's a really good defender.

[00:38:32] I don't think anybody really knows what you're going to get offensively.

[00:38:35] I think it's a risk.

[00:38:36] I think someone like the Dodgers signing them is great because whatever you get offensively is a bonus.

[00:38:41] As far as the Mariners, you're looking to upgrade offensively and not like kind of hope that you're going to upgrade

[00:38:51] because that's what they've done over the last couple of years and it just hasn't worked out.

[00:38:55] So I think if that's the route you go where investing in the bench and just being versatile,

[00:39:01] there's some value to that, right?

[00:39:02] And being able to plug and play guys in different positions,

[00:39:07] kind of really take advantage of the platoon opportunities in different areas.

[00:39:11] And hey, look, I think this is an opportunity for Dylan Moore to maybe get some more playing time

[00:39:16] and really show his value all over the field.

[00:39:18] Now you can kind of move him second to third and hopefully get to play every day.

[00:39:21] Listen, when Dylan Moore last year played every day for, you know, I don't know how long JP was out.

[00:39:28] He was really, really good, you know, and we kind of threw JP back in there as he well deserves.

[00:39:34] And then Dylan Moore didn't play for a while consistently and his numbers took a hit for it.

[00:39:38] So I think there's a chance that Dylan Moore can really step up and play.

[00:39:42] I know the organization really likes Bliss and you're going to let somebody like Cole Young or Cole Emerson come up and try and help.

[00:39:49] And so if that's the case and that's where you want to invest in, that's totally fine.

[00:39:54] It's almost better you take a risk inside the organization than outside.

[00:39:57] But regardless, you have to find a way to move your offensive philosophy forward

[00:40:03] and not stall with any of the free agents that you're signing.

[00:40:06] So let's talk about that offensive philosophy.

[00:40:08] It seems like they changed at least a little bit down the stretch run of last season.

[00:40:12] How real do you think that is?

[00:40:15] Now that it seems like they're going to have to rely on that a lot more than outside help.

[00:40:19] I think it was real.

[00:40:20] You know, in the conversations that I had with guys, the presence of Edgar, I think,

[00:40:25] and his tone and his delivery and what he was talking about was much different than what, you know,

[00:40:33] the former hitting coaches, including Brant Brown, had said.

[00:40:36] And I love Brant Brown.

[00:40:37] I respect him a ton.

[00:40:38] I think he's very knowledgeable in what he does.

[00:40:40] I think what Edgar brings to the table is this level of calmness, right, and clarity.

[00:40:46] And everybody that you come in contact with says that about Edgar.

[00:40:49] It's just that he simplifies these complex ideas so that when you go into the box, you know exactly what you want to do.

[00:40:55] And the common thing I kept hearing was external thoughts, not getting too caught up in the way that you're supposed to look mechanically in the box.

[00:41:04] But like, hey, if you think like this, if you think, hey, let's go, you know, just a simple thought.

[00:41:09] I'm not using this as a specific example.

[00:41:12] But if you try and hit a ground ball at a second base, it's going to line up for you to stay inside the ball, on top of the ball,

[00:41:18] and put all these different mechanical ideas together.

[00:41:21] And so I think you saw guys become more hitters down the stretch instead of just trying to constantly launch.

[00:41:27] That was my biggest pet peeve in the organization was pull side homers.

[00:41:32] It just felt like everybody was trying to drive the ball out of the yard.

[00:41:36] Every situation, you were just trying to get the pitch in the middle of the plate and hit it.

[00:41:40] And that's just not what baseball is.

[00:41:42] You saw the Dodgers in the World Series.

[00:41:44] They came back in that game by moving the runner, by hitting a guy over, driving it the other way, hitting a homer.

[00:41:51] Like there's multiple ways that they beat you in this game.

[00:41:53] And I think in September and August, I think the Mariners really embodied that.

[00:41:57] And they did a good job.

[00:41:59] There was so many more games that I saw that they had these at-bats strung together with singles and then a double

[00:42:06] and a couple walks and then a knock.

[00:42:08] And those are the ways that you beat teams.

[00:42:10] You just can't constantly rely on big homers.

[00:42:14] And so I think that philosophy hopefully continues with Seitzer going forward.

[00:42:19] Do you know much about him, by the way?

[00:42:21] Have you had much run-in with Seitzer in your career?

[00:42:24] I don't know.

[00:42:25] It's all secondhand information.

[00:42:27] Guys seem to like him and the way that they interacted with him.

[00:42:31] I don't know his philosophies very well as far as hitting.

[00:42:34] I know he's been a part of a great offense over there in Atlanta and has had some success with almost all their players in that lineup.

[00:42:40] So he's coming from a team that's won a World Series.

[00:42:44] He won a World Series with them.

[00:42:45] And, yeah, the most common thing I hear is his ability to communicate with guys and get them feeling like they're ready for the at-bat more than anything.

[00:42:57] Let me ask you this, because while we're talking offseason here and talking about players and wanting to see a commitment,

[00:43:04] you were talking about that with potential free agents, and you had that experience when you played.

[00:43:10] How tuned in are players on what's going on during the offseason with their team?

[00:43:16] And what I mean by that is, look, I'm sure if you're a player and your team signs a free agent, you'll know about it.

[00:43:21] You'll hear about it either through the team, through other players, through the grapevine, et cetera.

[00:43:26] But for the Mariners, for example, there's this, you know, it's well known out there.

[00:43:31] The story's pretty public at this point that this team's essentially self-imposed a $15 million budget for what they're willing to spend this offseason.

[00:43:38] When you're a player, how much do you hear about things like that?

[00:43:42] And how does that kind of trigger a chain of reactions if you've heard about it?

[00:43:47] Yeah, I think two things on that.

[00:43:48] But you're definitely paying attention.

[00:43:50] I was paying attention every winter, especially a team like the Mariners, where you're looking to who's going to help you.

[00:43:57] You know you're close.

[00:43:58] Every year the last year you've been close, and you're looking to see, you know, is it going to, you know, energize the team and be able to say,

[00:44:07] all right, we're going for it.

[00:44:08] Yes, I know that guy's going to help us.

[00:44:10] I've played against that guy.

[00:44:11] And so you're always looking for that signing.

[00:44:13] The second thing I'd say to that is, why do you need to come out and say the budget that you're willing to spend?

[00:44:19] You know, I just, I don't understand.

[00:44:21] Like, whose benefit does that do?

[00:44:23] To the fans?

[00:44:23] To what?

[00:44:24] Like, if players hear that number, all they're thinking is, like, you're not really in it.

[00:44:28] And I don't know that that's not true.

[00:44:30] You know, there's just no reason to do that, to be quite honest with you.

[00:44:36] It doesn't benefit the agent.

[00:44:38] It doesn't benefit the players you're trying to sign.

[00:44:41] And then it says, like, well, if I'm a player and I sign for 15, that means you're not getting anyone.

[00:44:46] So after I sign, is that team really good enough to make it?

[00:44:49] Like, there's just so many, you know, lines you can go down that that doesn't really make any sense.

[00:44:54] And so it would frustrate me.

[00:44:56] If I saw that as a player on the team, it would definitely frustrate me.

[00:45:00] However, I will say this.

[00:45:01] Because I think the guys that are on this team have gotten so used to it that they're good enough now to just move past and say, look, the only way we're going to make it is if I look internally and I get better.

[00:45:13] And I'm hoping and I'm banking on a lot of these kids coming from year two, one and two, taking a big step year three and just shoving that to the side and hopefully getting over that one game hump.

[00:45:27] Do you think a guy like at this point that could help with the emotions of the player?

[00:45:34] Not I'd say there's a number of things.

[00:45:36] This player I'm referencing, Justin Turner, who they acquired at the deadline last year would help with now that they've missed out on Santana.

[00:45:43] Like we've talked about so much that they've lacked that true veteran presence in the clubhouse, even if there isn't the the monetary payroll investment in this roster going into next season that some of the players might be frustrated in.

[00:45:59] Would adding a Justin Turner at this point, not only as we've heard about a little bit, he had a major impact on how they hit down the stretch last year, almost being another coach out there for all these players.

[00:46:11] But, you know, telling them like what I'd say what really matters once they step onto the baseball field.

[00:46:17] Like what what kind of impact would would that make in terms of keeping everyone in line in check or just emotionally stable going into next year?

[00:46:26] I think that's exactly where you got to go.

[00:46:29] A hundred percent.

[00:46:29] You hit it on the head.

[00:46:30] You're looking now to have somebody who's been in these situations, who's been past them, who can see that everybody's frustrated around him and say, like, listen, it is what it is.

[00:46:39] We still got to go out and play and have that direction.

[00:46:42] And JT and JD Martinez, I think they both have that.

[00:46:45] I think they can both look past and say, look, this is what we got.

[00:46:48] You can either complain about it like, you know, we have the last couple of years, get off to a slow start and then try and catch back up.

[00:46:55] Or we can just go from the beginning.

[00:46:57] And I think one thing that, you know, if the Mariners were to go back, they would have JT for the full year.

[00:47:03] I think that would have made a massive difference in just the way that he was able to communicate not only with the players, but with the staff.

[00:47:09] Like, you ask everybody around that organization and they absolutely loved him in the way that he connected everybody, communicated.

[00:47:17] And in talking with JT, he feels great.

[00:47:19] Like, his body's not breaking down.

[00:47:21] So, obviously, he's going to be 40, right?

[00:47:23] So, there's going to be some decline there.

[00:47:24] But I think you hit it on the head in the sense that now it's like, can we get somebody in here that will have some productivity?

[00:47:32] Because JT or JD will be productive, maybe not to their career highs.

[00:47:37] But on top of it, they're going to push the other guys, which is exactly what you need.

[00:47:41] You need everybody on the roster to be pushed to a higher level.

[00:47:45] And so, in order to do that, you have guys like Edgar, but it always comes from the players, I'm telling you.

[00:47:50] And players make better players.

[00:47:52] And that's how I've always seen it, is the best players push the other guys around them and raise the bar.

[00:47:57] And if they can do that, man, I think you've got your offense that you need and just the small improvements that you do.

[00:48:06] Okay, so say Justin Turner comes to play here in Seattle.

[00:48:09] That would essentially be the other side of the first base platoon.

[00:48:12] You'd have him, you'd have Luke Raley, then first base is about set.

[00:48:16] But the three of us talked about something a little bit over some messages over the last week and a half or so.

[00:48:21] And we figured, yeah, this would be a good place to kind of, not hash it out, but just elaborate on it further and let some other people hear about it as well.

[00:48:29] So, if they were to sign Justin Turner, that obviously takes somebody like Yanni Diaz out of the equation.

[00:48:34] Somebody who the Mariners have been linked to for a while.

[00:48:36] It's a first baseman that's really hit over the last few years.

[00:48:39] I think a lot of people have looked to him as being an ideal trade candidate and somebody the Mariners could go after and have been linked to for, I guess I said that, for quite some time.

[00:48:49] Anyway, we were talking about that idea and we kind of mentioned how, look, could that cause some potential problems?

[00:48:57] Because there was that incident that him and Rosarena had a couple years ago where there was a scuffle outside the stadium in the parking lot after a game.

[00:49:05] And there's been some rumblings, at least online, that maybe those two aren't the best of friends.

[00:49:10] And let us preface this by this.

[00:49:13] Obviously, we didn't play.

[00:49:14] So, we only have a certain perspective on this and what goes on inside a clubhouse.

[00:49:18] What the two of us were essentially saying was, look, people are so frustrated and people are so kind of fed up with the way this offseason's gone that if they were to get a player like that,

[00:49:26] we said those two would just need to figure out how to coexist again in a clubhouse and just deal with it because the team needs offensive production.

[00:49:32] And you were kind of telling us, yeah, I wouldn't put that as lightly as you guys are putting it.

[00:49:39] And you said, I think that can really kind of take a toll on a clubhouse more than you might realize.

[00:49:43] So, I'll turn it to you.

[00:49:45] Say they were interested in that.

[00:49:47] Why do you think they shouldn't be exactly peddled to the metal on that idea?

[00:49:51] Yeah.

[00:49:52] First of all, I will say this.

[00:49:54] Desperate times call for desperate measures, right?

[00:49:56] Like, if you get to the point where you're just like, I don't know any other option and you feel like you have the internal measures to handle it,

[00:50:02] then by all means, he's a fantastic player.

[00:50:06] Yandy Diaz makes contact.

[00:50:07] He drives and runs.

[00:50:10] I think he'd be a great addition at first base.

[00:50:12] That being said, in my experience, it's different when you have a couple guys on the roster that don't get along,

[00:50:21] but A, they don't have a long history together.

[00:50:23] B, there's been a long time away.

[00:50:25] Or C, there's kind of this, hey, he kind of plays every day.

[00:50:29] He doesn't.

[00:50:30] You know, they won't ever really get in the way.

[00:50:33] That's not how this is, right?

[00:50:34] A, there hasn't been that much time apart.

[00:50:37] And B, they play together all the time.

[00:50:40] And I don't – or they just play together.

[00:50:42] They play together in Tampa, but they will be on the field consistently, right?

[00:50:46] So, there's going to be – and why that's a concern is that ends up giving you more opportunities for something to go wrong, right?

[00:50:54] And to call out what Arani Rosarena did.

[00:50:58] Because from what I understand about Yandy Diaz, it's he's pretty straightforward, if you will,

[00:51:05] and kind of tells it like it is and has high expectations and was kind of brought up in the game in the old school way

[00:51:11] and kind of holds the Latin guys accountable wherever he goes.

[00:51:15] And he's also massive.

[00:51:17] I think he could bench press just about anybody on that team.

[00:51:20] And so, there's a little bit of some intimidation there.

[00:51:23] And I think that coming in, he's not going to back down.

[00:51:26] And so, why it concerns me here is in Seattle, there's already these distractions, right?

[00:51:31] Of are the owners really in it?

[00:51:33] Is the GM really the guy that we want at the helm?

[00:51:36] You know, we've got to get over the hump of making the playoffs.

[00:51:39] Do you really want to add another element of distraction that's going on in the year?

[00:51:45] And listen, if it was Juan Soto and Arani Rosarena and you had this otherworldly talent, maybe I look past it, you know?

[00:51:53] And I'm like, I think what I'll get out of Juan Soto is worth the friction that it might create with Randy Rosarena.

[00:52:01] I don't think Yanni's that good to be able to kind of surpass that level.

[00:52:07] And it would concern me.

[00:52:08] And then you end up getting guys involved in something that they were never even wanted to be a part of, right?

[00:52:15] I did tell you this, though.

[00:52:16] I said, if this were somewhere like L.A., where you have all these stars, all these big veterans that can control that narrative and get them together, and their fight now looks really small, I think it would work.

[00:52:30] I just don't think the Mariners have enough veteran presence in that locker room to be able to handle that.

[00:52:35] The only person that maybe offset that is Dan.

[00:52:38] And Dan is like the ultimate diffuser, problem solver, critical thinker to be able to put those guys together.

[00:52:44] The problem is there's just a little bit of a language barrier there between, you know, the three of them.

[00:52:49] And so that's not to say it won't work, and they can't figure out a way to communicate that.

[00:52:55] But I just know that culture is always run by the veteran presence, and they don't have enough there in Seattle.

[00:53:03] So that fight would concern me a little bit.

[00:53:05] If they had Carlos Santana and say instead of playing first base, he played third base, so this would actually be a roster fit.

[00:53:12] Would this be something that would be less of an issue?

[00:53:15] A hundred percent.

[00:53:16] Like you're talking about Carlos Santana's here and then bring in Yandy?

[00:53:20] Yeah, right.

[00:53:20] And Yandy plays third base.

[00:53:22] Carlos Santana doesn't play third, but hypothetically, if he could actually play third base in the roster fit.

[00:53:29] A hundred percent.

[00:53:30] I would think you have a much better chance if you have somebody like that, right?

[00:53:33] I mean, obviously this is an extreme example, but David Ortiz is just one Latin guy that's been here that has this massive presence that can help these two solve that problem.

[00:53:43] There's nobody in here.

[00:53:45] Julio's too young, right?

[00:53:46] He hasn't been in the league long enough.

[00:53:48] And, you know, Castillo might be able to, but there's a huge gap in pitching, right?

[00:53:53] Like it just doesn't work that way.

[00:53:54] And so if you had someone like Carlos Santana, who has a massive history of helping these disputes and getting with guys and solving them and bringing them all together, I think it could totally work like that.

[00:54:07] But, you know, there's just nobody on that roster right now like that.

[00:54:10] Have you seen examples like that kind of throw a clubhouse sideways in your career?

[00:54:16] And you don't have to obviously throw out specific names and examples, but when two guys, I'm sure not everybody in a clubhouse is always the best of friends.

[00:54:23] And when two guys, and let's say two guys that really are difference makers on a ball club, have some friction, can it really cause as many problems as somebody from the outside trying to look in might think that it would?

[00:54:33] Oh, yeah. Yeah, I've seen it in a couple years where they traded them right away.

[00:54:41] Like once it happened, one of them was, everybody's seen it, was Papelbon and Harper, where it was this huge, they didn't like each other from the beginning.

[00:54:50] The team was a mess once they came in and Papelbon the whole year would like, you know, wanted to make it a priority to take care of, to like, not take care because that seems like it's like a loving way.

[00:55:01] He wanted to like show Harper who's boss, right?

[00:55:06] And so when you have that distraction, you're not concentrated on trying to win a World Series.

[00:55:11] You're more like looking out for yourself and then trying to do your job, right?

[00:55:14] And so when it's that massive, right, like everybody has disagreements.

[00:55:18] But when you get into an altercation and they're competitors, they're athletes, like, no, they don't forget that.

[00:55:24] It's not just, hey, let's talk it through it now and move on.

[00:55:28] If you get to that point, great.

[00:55:29] But they're not there.

[00:55:30] Yandy and Randy aren't there yet.

[00:55:32] So it ends up being this huge, like, I'm looking out and I have to kind of look over my shoulder.

[00:55:37] And like I said, it's a massive distraction.

[00:55:39] That one was huge.

[00:55:40] And they ended up trading Papelbon away right away.

[00:55:42] Do you feel like those Nats teams you were on earlier in your career were similar to the situation the Mariners are in right now?

[00:55:50] I remember that Nats team until they won the World Series in 2019.

[00:55:54] Historically, it had a problem with, you know, when the lights got bright, especially in the postseason, they would be unable to advance.

[00:56:02] They were not very consistent.

[00:56:04] And then they had that incidence, as you just highlighted there.

[00:56:07] So is that a fair example?

[00:56:11] As far as, like, not performing, yes.

[00:56:14] But, I mean, we made it to the World Series or the playoffs, like, year after year.

[00:56:19] I don't think the Mariners are doing that.

[00:56:20] We also had guys like Jason Wirth, the Nards fan, Doug Pfister.

[00:56:25] Like, one thing you can say about Mike Rizzo, you know, he went out and got guys.

[00:56:29] Max Scherzer, he took the risk.

[00:56:31] And it doesn't always work out.

[00:56:32] Like Patrick Corbin, right?

[00:56:34] Like, that's been a terrible contract.

[00:56:36] But, like, you have to tip your cap to the Lerner family and Rizzo.

[00:56:40] They've gone out for it.

[00:56:41] And they've tried.

[00:56:42] And they tried again.

[00:56:43] And it hasn't worked.

[00:56:44] And those teams that I was on, we had the guys to do it.

[00:56:47] It just fell on us.

[00:56:48] Like, we just, we didn't perform in those moments for whatever reason and fell short.

[00:56:54] And, you know, it's hard in those moments as a manager to make the right moves.

[00:56:59] Every little thing matters.

[00:57:01] And so, yeah, we kept falling one step short here or there.

[00:57:04] But, look, if the Mariners were sitting here and they had made it to the NLDS or the ALDS and the ALCS in the last four out of five years,

[00:57:12] I think we would have a much different tune about the narrative of ownership and Jerry and all of it going on.

[00:57:19] And I think that's what the difference between us and the Mariners right now was.

[00:57:25] I wanted to close this conversation, Stephen, on a topic you brought to us that I think is interesting.

[00:57:30] It is going to be something that comes up in the next CBA discussion.

[00:57:34] And I'm also curious how it would affect an offseason like this for the Mariners, for other teams as well.

[00:57:40] The proposed eventual salary cap that Major League Baseball is going to put in, I would assume, in the next CBA, that's going to cause probably a work stoppage.

[00:57:50] I would be shocked if they don't miss games the next time they have to negotiate a CBA.

[00:57:56] And you mentioned the Nats going all in and signing guys like Scherzer and paying Steven Strasburg.

[00:58:01] Well, they might have to think about not doing that if it got to the point where they go over this said salary cap.

[00:58:08] From a general player perspective, what has been the pushback against a salary cap, knowing it would come with a salary floor in the future that forces all teams to pay a certain amount of money to players each year?

[00:58:22] Yeah, I think, you know, the narrative that was kind of proposed to us was that you just want to keep growing the market, right?

[00:58:28] Like have the ability to be able to push the market wherever you want.

[00:58:33] And what's ended up happening is that's happened and guys have pushed the market.

[00:58:38] Obviously, we can see that in Juan Soto's contract and in Otani's contract as well.

[00:58:44] I think where we've missed the market's players is those guys are going to get paid inside of a salary cap regardless.

[00:58:53] Where it's fallen short is I feel for the guys that play three, four years, four, five years, and they have to go work a different job when they go back.

[00:59:01] It is extremely hard in this game to play a day.

[00:59:05] It's extremely hard to play three years.

[00:59:07] And so figuring out a way with that cap to be able to pay those guys.

[00:59:12] And what I think it does is when you have that cap and you have that floor, you can't just load your roster up with a bunch of kind of AAA guys making minimum.

[00:59:22] You're forced to spend a little bit more on these veteran guys that play a higher quality of baseball without the higher ceiling.

[00:59:30] And I think that's what we've missed over the last couple years.

[00:59:32] It's like the amount of airs and the quality of baseball has gone down a little bit in the production and talent and the personalities, which is awesome.

[00:59:41] You don't want to get rid of those kids.

[00:59:43] But I think the quality of the game and getting rid of the veterans and having fan bases be able to attach themselves with players throughout their whole career, that's not happening anymore.

[00:59:55] As soon as you hit free agency, there's only like six or seven markets that are going to be able to handle Juan Soto's contract.

[01:00:01] You know, and like you want if Juan Soto came up in Cincinnati, you want the Reds to be able to have a chance to keep him there his whole career.

[01:00:09] You know, and I know that I'm sitting on the other side of the fence saying that, you know, 45 million compared to 30 million.

[01:00:17] It's both life changing money.

[01:00:19] Right.

[01:00:20] And so you look at the NFL and the way that QBs have their market, they're still getting paid several millions amount of dollars and everybody can do that in the league.

[01:00:29] But I think one thing that was preached to us is the NFL regretted everything that they did with the salary cap.

[01:00:35] And I'm looking at it now.

[01:00:37] Every single year, every team in that NFL locker room has a chance to win the following year.

[01:00:44] And I don't think we have that in baseball.

[01:00:46] And I think we're losing fans from the five-year gap.

[01:00:50] And I think being able to control the salary cap and force teams to spend a minimum, have the salary cap keep growing with the market,

[01:00:57] and figure out what positions are right.

[01:00:59] The center fielder is going to have to get paid the most.

[01:01:02] Whatever.

[01:01:03] The same thing that football does, and you keep the markets in those positions,

[01:01:07] I think it increases the game as a whole and the quality of baseball rises all around the country.

[01:01:12] Because that's what we really want, right?

[01:01:14] As fans, we want to see the parity of being able to have the Mariners have a chance every year with a Juan Soto.

[01:01:21] And is the pitch I'm developing the right way?

[01:01:25] I'm able to put the players around you because everybody has the same rules as me.

[01:01:30] Whereas LA now has a whole other salary cap in 2035.

[01:01:34] Like, that's not fair to the rest of the league to be able to do that.

[01:01:38] Right?

[01:01:38] And I get the fact that they have the ability to go for it, but no other owners are Steve Cohen and can spend that kind of money.

[01:01:46] And so I think if you take care of the game, put it the right way where veterans, you can play longer as a veteran and have that quality and make a little bit more,

[01:01:54] I think it benefits everybody at the end of the day.

[01:01:56] I know players are going to crucify me for saying that, but I'm more concerned about the quality of game and the parity that we're missing going forward.

[01:02:05] So this is super interesting because you just said it right there at the end.

[01:02:09] It feels like a salary cap implementation would be very, very much a league set thing and something that the league itself and the owners try to put into place come this next CBA lockout,

[01:02:22] whatever you want to call it, if a lockout gets to that point.

[01:02:24] But you seem to be on the other side of it saying, I'd actually be open-minded to a salary cap thing, which you don't hear that many players say.

[01:02:30] What I'd turn back to you and ask is, how do you get players to buy into that idea and buy into that being implemented?

[01:02:40] Because say you're a guy that's worked his whole life to become a superstar and you're 22 years old and you're tearing up the league.

[01:02:45] Maybe you're a Gunnar Henderson, for example.

[01:02:47] And you say, I've dreamed my whole life of getting paid like Juan Soto or in some iteration of Juan Soto.

[01:02:53] Well, with a salary cap, those type of contracts will go away, right?

[01:02:57] So how do you get these players to buy in on the idea of this is still good for us?

[01:03:03] Yeah, listen, that top tier that's going to be against that is like the 0.01%, right?

[01:03:09] The 1%ers that make that kind of money, that make 40 plus million a year.

[01:03:15] I think those guys, the argument to them is like, one, what's different between 700 million and 350 million?

[01:03:22] Like, you know, you include better off the field stuff, right?

[01:03:29] Help them. MLB can really connect because that revenue ends up being split a little bit differently, right?

[01:03:35] Because if the teams are making money, you would hope that it's just not lying in the owner's pocket.

[01:03:40] And that's what the players are afraid of because there's so much distrust between what happened, whether it be from COVID or the last CBA.

[01:03:49] There's just a distrust in professional, like, good faith negotiation.

[01:03:54] And so if that trust can be rebuilt where the ownership can kind of show good faith or the MLBPA show good faith to each other,

[01:04:02] I think it's a lot easier transition.

[01:04:04] I just think there's so much dysfunctionality in between the relationship that it is going to be hard.

[01:04:10] And I think if you're going to appeal to anybody, you appeal to the middle, to the bottom tier of the league,

[01:04:16] to the guys that they play seven years, they play, you know, 10 years and maybe aren't the everyday player,

[01:04:22] or the guys that play three years.

[01:04:23] And like, how can you help support them better through this salary cap than just like, man,

[01:04:29] our stars got to get paid 70 million a year and that's all that really matters, right?

[01:04:33] Because guys like Dan Wilson, they hung around a long, long time in Seattle and played and made little money after little money

[01:04:41] because there was this reputation of keeping veteran guys around and we were able to attach to Dan Wilson.

[01:04:46] And I think you're losing those guys.

[01:04:49] And I think if you can appeal back into the players' union to those guys from the ownership standpoint,

[01:04:54] I think you have a better shot.

[01:04:57] I know there's going to have to be a floor implemented with this as well.

[01:05:00] Do you have an idea what a good salary floor would be for these teams?

[01:05:05] Yeah.

[01:05:06] You know, I think that's a multi-layered question.

[01:05:09] And so, you know, you set the cap and let's just say you keep the cap right around where it is right now.

[01:05:14] It's a hard cap.

[01:05:15] It's $230 million, okay?

[01:05:18] I would say you start with $100 million base.

[01:05:22] There's teams that have way under that.

[01:05:24] And maybe you go even more than that, honestly.

[01:05:26] I mean, I wouldn't be opposed to like having a gap of $80 million.

[01:05:30] You have an $80 million luxury.

[01:05:32] That's four players that you potentially could add at a high level.

[01:05:36] So maybe $140 million right there would be the floor.

[01:05:39] And what that forces you to do is to fine veterans and be more aggressive in free agency

[01:05:46] and get those guys because you know you're going to be fined if you can't reach that floor.

[01:05:49] The other way you do it is by keeping your own players and getting extension and adding it through that way

[01:05:55] and getting those done a lot earlier.

[01:05:57] So there's multiple ways you can cover that floor.

[01:05:59] And I think being able to set something in the hundreds would be key.

[01:06:03] And then I think as that grows, the cap's going to grow.

[01:06:07] Every cap in sports has grown.

[01:06:09] And as that grows, the premium market positions will grow with it.

[01:06:13] And I think you hold teams accountable like the Oakland A's and the Pittsburgh Pirates and the Tampa Rays on the revenue sharing.

[01:06:21] No, now you have to put it back on the field.

[01:06:23] That's what it's for is the cap.

[01:06:25] The money that goes over it goes into a revenue sharing nationally.

[01:06:29] And each team that is in the smallest markets, they get an opportunity to have the same cap.

[01:06:34] Well, now they're not held to account.

[01:06:37] They're still revenue sharing.

[01:06:39] They're just not held to necessarily put it back on the field with players.

[01:06:42] There's multiple areas, equipment, staff, whatever, that they can put it in.

[01:06:46] And so I think if you combine the cap floor like that and then a whole team's better accountable

[01:06:51] to put that revenue sharing into players, you'll see the parity through the league grow again.

[01:06:56] And I really do believe, I know that's an unpopular opinion,

[01:06:59] but I really do believe that we'll see a better quality of game all across the league.

[01:07:05] I got to tell you, I hope players and former players start doing podcasts

[01:07:09] when we get up against the clock with this potential CBA renewal and potential work stoppage.

[01:07:15] Oh, shoot.

[01:07:17] Oh, you still there?

[01:07:19] Low battery. Sorry, fellas. I'm here.

[01:07:21] All good, all good.

[01:07:22] Sorry, I'll just start that little part over.

[01:07:26] Yeah, I hope players and former players start doing podcasts and are talking about this stuff

[01:07:30] once we get up against the clock with this potential renewal of the CBA

[01:07:34] because we've talked to you about it now.

[01:07:35] We've talked to Trevor May about it and your opinions are a little bit different.

[01:07:38] But the thing we've taken away from everybody we've talked to about it that was in the game

[01:07:42] and knows things about this is, man, people are insightful with this stuff.

[01:07:48] Like, you're giving us some 4-1-1 here and some insight that I probably didn't think about five minutes ago.

[01:07:54] So when this eventually gets here, I mean, I hope you're out there talking about it.

[01:07:59] I mean, would you be interested in either helping the player side or the team side,

[01:08:03] like trying to figure this all out?

[01:08:05] Or are you just going to kind of sit back and watch from afar?

[01:08:07] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:08:08] I would love to help out.

[01:08:13] I think what you need in these situations is not the more intelligent guys on who's going to get over who.

[01:08:19] It's being able to regain that trust, right, and being able to have people in the room

[01:08:25] that can see past all the past wounds that they've done to each other

[01:08:28] and just find a way to do what's best for the game.

[01:08:31] That's all I think I want, right, is I love this game.

[01:08:35] I want it to continue.

[01:08:37] And I want the fans to really enjoy it across the country.

[01:08:40] I want every fan for their team to get fired up about their city again,

[01:08:44] to have a chance to go to the World Series every year, you know,

[01:08:50] and be able to turn back to the next year.

[01:08:52] I also, how awesome would it be if 30 teams had a chance at Juan Soto?

[01:08:57] Like, that is awesome instead of just, you know what, it's going to be the Cubs,

[01:09:00] the Red Sox, the Yankees, the Mets, and the Dodgers, right?

[01:09:05] Like, I want every team to be able to have that chance to fight,

[01:09:09] and I think every fan would agree with that.

[01:09:11] And so if we can get to that place where there's trust,

[01:09:14] there's no I got you on the business side of things,

[01:09:18] and put our egos away and really just say what's best for the players, all of them,

[01:09:24] not just the top tier, all of the players, all of the fans,

[01:09:27] and what's going to help the owners grow their value as well,

[01:09:30] that's where the sweet spot is, and I think we can get there.

[01:09:33] We just have to look past all the wounds in the past.

[01:09:36] Last thing for me, Steven, I'm thinking about this from a Mariners perspective.

[01:09:40] I don't think this changes much of what the Mariners, I would say,

[01:09:44] offseason has been going or will happen this offseason

[01:09:48] with the current cap situation we just laid out,

[01:09:52] with 140 being the floor and 230 being the ceiling.

[01:09:56] I feel like the Mariners at this point, if this is fair, let me know or not,

[01:10:00] that the Mariners would just shrug their shoulders at where they are if that was in place

[01:10:05] and say, all right, well, this is still what we're going to do anyways.

[01:10:08] Yeah, I agree with you.

[01:10:10] I don't think it would change much in regards to Seattle's offseason.

[01:10:14] I think that it would level the playing field with the monsters in the league.

[01:10:20] That's where I think more than anything is it's not about who can spend the most money,

[01:10:26] whose pockets are the biggest, and then we put the best team on the field.

[01:10:31] We know that the biggest salaries in the league, the highest payrolls,

[01:10:37] they tend to make it to the World Series.

[01:10:39] It's evident if you go, and they tend to make it farther in the playoffs.

[01:10:42] It's evident throughout the last 10 years.

[01:10:43] There's anomalies throughout the way, and there's great stories that we have in these underdogs,

[01:10:48] but most often than not, it's the highest paid.

[01:10:51] And so if that happens and you take it back down a little bit so that Juan Soto isn't just going to the highest paid team,

[01:10:57] I think it forces teams to develop better.

[01:11:00] It gives the Mariners a chance to really rely on their prospects better, to stay where they're at.

[01:11:05] The signing for them that they've done, it's been good, right, if you have a cap market.

[01:11:09] And then on top of it, I think you feel a little bit safer as an owner of like,

[01:11:14] okay, I know that it's not astronomical for these players that it's going to continue to grow where I can't even afford anyone,

[01:11:20] that there's a market for each player, and you can anticipate that market a little bit better.

[01:11:25] And so maybe you do take a little bit more of a risk this year than in the past

[01:11:30] because you have a better feel of which positions are going to demand what.

[01:11:34] And I think, you know, who's to say that John wouldn't go for something like that?

[01:11:40] Love it.

[01:11:41] Steven, as always, super fun, super insightful.

[01:11:45] Always enjoy talking ball with you and look forward to doing it again soon.

[01:11:49] And hope to see you out at the ballpark again here in the next few months here.

[01:11:52] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:11:53] Always a pleasure coming on with you guys.

[01:11:54] You guys are two of my favorites.

[01:11:55] So thanks for having me on.

[01:11:56] Until next time.

[01:11:59] We'll say it again.

[01:12:00] We really, really enjoy having Steven on the show.

[01:12:02] So smart, get a player's perspective.

[01:12:05] He's very clearly tuned in on the game, both when he was playing and certainly the present day game.

[01:12:10] We're going to have to start doing our homework on CBA stuff come after 2026.

[01:12:16] You miss homework.

[01:12:17] Yeah, because most of this podcast, I'm going to assume after the 26 season,

[01:12:22] it's going to be a lot of lockout talk.

[01:12:24] I think we're trending that way, unfortunately.

[01:12:26] But we're obviously going to want to keep podcasting and will keep podcasting when that comes around.

[01:12:31] So we'll probably be talking about it because it seems like that's where the two sides are headed.

[01:12:36] Anyway, appreciate all of Steven's time.

[01:12:38] And with that, that'll just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Layer Podcast.

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[01:13:18] That's TJ.

[01:13:19] I'm Lyle.

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