Episode 201: Adam Jude (Seattle Times) + What Would It Take For The Mariners To Land Pete Alonso?

[00:00:00] Welcome to episode number 201 of the Marine Layer Podcast. We welcome on Seattle Times Mariners beat writer Adam Jude. We cover everything you need to know, the budget, Pete Alonso with that rumor floating out there today on Thursday, Rokie Sasaki, and the inactivity from the Mariners this offseason. We also have a couple more things we want to inform you guys on.

[00:00:20] Before we start the show, do us a big favor, go rate and review everywhere on the audio side. Hit download on the episodes. If you're listening, just take a second to do it. Again, those Apple Podcast reviews are going up. We want to see them continue to go up. So leave those reviews on YouTube. Make sure to like comment and subscribe when you're watching. And then on social media, follow us everywhere. Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, YouTube shorts, blue sky at Marine Layer pod. Let's get it rolling.

[00:00:47] And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network recording on Thursday evening, January 16th. It's kind of depressing for me in this situation right here, Lyle, because I need a new starting line for these episodes because they made a move.

[00:01:19] Yeah, they did. But we talked about the move and we know. Can't we just say they haven't made another move? It's not like the one move was some huge needle mover. It no, it wasn't. OK, so I can just say, Lyle, have they made another move? But it it rolls off the tongue better when we're we just continuously string it out on them trying to make one move. Yeah, I just realized we kept doing our question at the end of every show. Will they make a move before the next time we record?

[00:01:46] And finally, they did when they signed Solano. So finally, people, I stopped winning on double zero at the roulette at the roulette table. Man, I want a lot of money. But then then I finally lost it all after they signed Solano. Yeah, we did. Well, according to some people, it's just karma because we don't know ball. No, we don't. Actually, Luis Arise is the next Ichiro. We should know better. There you for actually forgot. Key one, Tony Gwynn. Both played in San Diego. That's a good one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:02:16] Yeah, yeah. Tony Gwynn is so good. We have an announcement, Lyle. Woo! A show announcement. And it's actually a very exciting show announcement. You want me to tell the people? You want to tell the people? Because it's literally a show. I'll lay it out and you fill in some details. We are going to have our first live show in a little bit over a month. Isn't that exciting? A live show. Me and you. First one. This is something we've wanted to do for so long now.

[00:02:45] We've had the chance to connect with so many of you guys through the first two years or so of this. But we always wanted to do so in this format to get everybody together. And now we've got a chance to do it. So, when is it? Where is it? We'll tell you the details. At least the starting details for now. It is going to be Thursday, February 20th at 6pm over at Moss Bay Hall in Kirkland. Have you guys heard of Queen Anne Beer Hall? Yeah, you have. Because people hang out there all the time. It's sick.

[00:03:14] It's such a cool place. Moss Bay Hall is just the Eastside sister version of Queen Anne Beer Hall. It's just the Eastside and Kirkland's version of Queen Anne Beer Hall. Which is such a cool place. And an awesome place to do things like have a live event. So, we're doing one. And we cannot wait. So, it's a little over a month from now. Again, 6pm on Thursday, February the 20th at Moss Bay Hall over in Kirkland.

[00:03:41] And we will get you guys more details on the show as the weeks go on here. We're still planning some stuff out with it. But we're going to try to get some cool guests to show up while we're there. So, we're working on that right now. We've got some ideas to get you guys involved, which we're still working on. So, we will continue to give you guys more details as time goes on. But we want to give you guys time to plan. Time to mark your calendars. Time to start thinking about how you can get out to the event. Because we would love to see you guys there.

[00:04:10] Again, Thursday, February 20th. Moss Bay Hall in Kirkland. One thing I can promise you. We will absolutely be opening it up to the public. To the forum, I should say. And taking questions from the audience. So, will TJ and I have things planned out that we're going to talk about while we're there? Of course. And, like, Mariners things off season. Hopefully, they've done a little bit more by then. Of course. But we're going to want to hear from you guys.

[00:04:36] So, we promise we will be opening up the mic to the public to ask us questions. And we interact with you guys. So, at the very least, we're going to do that. And we're thinking about doing some trivia, too, with some prizes in mind. We'll see. We have a lot more here to figure out. But really, really looking forward to it. If you need a sales pitch, besides just getting to hear Lowney's soothing. Just, it's like therapy. Our voices ringing out throughout Moss Bay Hall.

[00:05:04] You guys are going to love that. But the pretzels are really good. If you need a sales pitch. So, think about that. Thursday, February 20th. Moss Bay Hall in Kirkland. Yeah. Hope to see you guys there. And we will have updates through you throughout future podcast episodes. When we have some more details on that. There's one other big thing. Yeah. Just 6 p.m. Yeah, you said it. Yeah, 6 p.m. Thursday, February 20th. Moss Bay Hall. 6 p.m. Yeah, we can't wait. Their pretzels are sick, by the way. I mean, everything they sell there is really good.

[00:05:33] But their pretzels, yeah. Really good. They use a lot of butter. You like butter. I mean, that's the spot. Pretzels and beer. And the Marine Layer Podcast. I couldn't think of a better trio to waking you up to baseball season. One other thing from us before we actually start talking some baseball. So there is a pretty big thing going into effect this weekend that will affect us and how some of you consume our content.

[00:06:01] There is, as of right now, the TikTok ban is supposed to go through on Sunday, January 19th. And we're not expecting to be able to post any content on TikTok from that date until either they solve something or they don't solve something. And we won't be able to go do that. So just know for anybody that listens to this podcast and says only on TikTok, just a reminder, if you want to catch all that same content, it's the exact same.

[00:06:28] If you go on over to our Instagram and you scroll on our Instagram pages, the videos are the exact same. If you just go on over there, you hit follow on our Instagram page over from TikTok, that'll be a place that you can consume all of our content. We're also on Twitter. We're also on Blue Sky as well, as Lyle says at the beginning of every single episode. So if you follow us on TikTok, please feel free to go find some other avenues to consume our content until either they figure it out or that's just going to be the way it is. And we'll chug a head forward with what we have.

[00:06:59] And if you're listening, YouTube, YouTube, YouTube. Yes. All our stuff's on YouTube shorts. So like if you're going to pick another platform, you can pick whatever you want. But Instagram Reels, I mean Instagram, I should say, and YouTube, head over there. Look, in a quick 30-second synopsis, I mean this sucks. I think the whole thing's a little ridiculous. And there are people that have much bigger platforms than us that are getting seriously affected by this. And yeah.

[00:07:27] It's a big part of people's lives. Yeah. Which is, again, to just take it away from everybody, just with the snap of a finger with no solution, I think is insanity. Hopefully they figure something out. But for the most part, that's neither here nor there. The reason we bring this up is just to tell you guys, if you are somebody who watches most of our stuff on TikTok, just go over to Instagram, go over to YouTube and find us there. And we will be posting all the same stuff.

[00:07:54] So we just wanted to give you guys a quick heads up on that just in case. The handle is at MarineLayerPod for everything. Please feel free. Find us a new crisp white, blue, teal, and gray logo. I have all the colors, right? Yeah, you got it. Let's go. If you want to get really specific, navy blue, but yes. Whoa. Whoa. Are you going to break out some numbers? Because every color is a number. It does? Yeah.

[00:08:22] Or it's a letter and numbers, I think. I think I have that right. It's interesting. I could have gone forever without knowing that. All right. Baseball-wise, before we get to Adam Jude, Pete Alonso? I'm down. Sitting right in the Mariners' kitchen, waiting to be signed. So the news came out today out of the New York sphere that Pete rejected the Mets' latest offer and the Mets are now planning for life without Pete Alonso.

[00:08:51] I think we all just assumed that Pete was going to be a Met. But now that that door is closing, I wouldn't say it's closed, but it's closing on him returning to the Mets. Pete doesn't have a slam dunk spot to land. Except for the Seattle Mariners. Lyle? And the reports are that the latest deal Pete turned down was a three-year deal with opt-outs in it and not an extremely high AAV. I believe it was $22 million a year.

[00:09:21] It's a sitting duck in a free agent market where the Mariners have seemingly been very patient waiting for things to break their way. Well, now something has broken their way. And he's a polar bear. Does this not make all the sense in the world? Yes, it does. Yes, it does. Are there other teams out there that could be interested in his services? Yeah. Could the Giants be in on it? They could. They also still have Lamont Wade. Who are you calling?

[00:09:52] Oh, it's the VP of Common Sense. Yeah. Pete Alonso makes a lot of sense. Yes. Yeah. Thank you, Ryan. Just checking. All right. The VP of Common Sense, Ryan Divish, says, yes, the Mariners should sign Pete Alonso. Well, Divish, thanks for popping in. We already had Adam on this podcast, Adam Jude. But if you're going to complete the Seattle Times battery here for us, great. You're going to parachute in. Now we have the word. The VP of Common Sense has put his stamp on this.

[00:10:22] He said, yes, that is a common sense move. That is what you should be doing. This is what you pay me for. This is why I'm the VP of Common Sense. Because I tell you what's logical, what makes sense, and what doesn't. And I'm telling you, this is logical. Yeah. Could the Giants be in on it? They could. There's been some rumors that the Blue Jays may be in on this. Which, in that scenario, I would assume just flip-flop Pete and Vladdy between first base and DH.

[00:10:49] But there is no contending team that needs a first baseman more than the Mariners. It's not even close. And this is not a shot at Luke Raley. It's not like Luke Raley's not going to play. He'd just play the outfield. Where, truthfully, he probably should be playing to begin with. And then you have an everyday first baseman that not just duct tapes a gap and duct tapes a hole. It actually fills it. Permanently. And Pete Alonso, while he may strike out a little bit, while his numbers have dipped a little bit in the last couple years.

[00:11:19] Number one, he is still an all-star level bat that'll hit 30 to 35 home runs in any ballpark. His profile plays through the Seattle effects and the fact that it's a big pitcher's park. He shouldn't be very affected by it. And number two, Pete Alonso's going to be leaps and bounds better than anybody you'd roll out at first base otherwise. And again, not a Luke Raley shot. Luke Raley's going to play no matter what, but he can just play the outfield. Pete Alonso... And this solves... Yeah. Pete Alonso... Is that a Mariners DH problem too?

[00:11:49] Yes, it does. Because you could shovel this around a couple different ways. Pete plays first base. Raley goes in the outfield. You bring Randy, and we've talked about his struggles on defense. You have Randy DH. Or you can keep Raley at first base if you want. Have Solano be the right-handed first baseman and Pete just DHs. And then whenever he feels like it, goes out and plays first base. I'm willing to cater whatever Pete Alonso wants. Pete wants to play at first base every day? Fine. If he wants to DH every day? Whatever you want, Pete. You want an opt-out after every single season?

[00:12:20] You have it. $23 million a year. One opt-out after every season for three seasons. Who is saying no to that deal? Well, TJ, I'm glad you asked. Their names are John Stanton and Chris Larson. That's who's saying no. I'm glad you brought up Vladdy. Because this is where this all ties in. Ties back to the Mariners. We've mentioned on here. It's been talked about. We talked about this with Jude, too.

[00:12:49] About the Mariners at the deadline this past season. At least called and asked about Vladimir Guerrero Jr. For the Toronto Blue Jays. To see if he was available. What's Vladdy's price these days? Wow. He's making about $30 million. And they were willing to pay it. Clearly. Why can't that be Pete Alonso? He's not as good as Vlad. I know. I get it. He's not as good as Vlad.

[00:13:13] But I imagine if you were going to pony up that cash for Vlad Guerrero Jr., you're also going to extend him. Because you weren't going to pay that price for one year. The cost for one year of Vlad Jr. You were going to extend him. Because this is the Mariners strategy. They target players they want. And they extend them. Well, you wouldn't have to have any long-term commitment to Pete Alonso. It would be one year of this cash.

[00:13:38] You would be essentially just getting that $29 million ARB number that Vlad is making. You subtract $6 million off of it. And that's what you pay Pete Alonso. Say you throw a buyout in there to raise the total value of the deal. All right. That's fine. And then you're still paying him less than you would have paid for one year of Vlad Jr. if you would have went out and acquired him. So if that cash is actually available, why don't they use it? Because spending on free agents isn't a smart strategy. Boom!

[00:14:08] At minute 14 today, we got it in. Well, that's my logical take of the day. Wow. And it is extremely logical. There is no reason that if Pete Alonso is not going to go back to Queens, the Mariners should not land him. There is not anybody else that could use his services more. There is not anybody that could benefit more from having him in their lineup. Pete Alonso plugs right into the four hole in this Mariners lineup.

[00:14:36] With the way this lineup is currently set up, that's probably where he'd hit. And that's what he should be. That's what he should be. I don't know if the Mariners are going to take this seriously or not. But again, they should. He makes all the sense in the world. I know his defense isn't great. That's not why you're acquiring him. You need him to hit. And you know what? I know there's a lot of people out there that may not love the idea of giving the player all the control of all these opt-outs after every year

[00:15:05] and the fact that it puts the team in limbo. You don't know what you're going to get year to year. Is he going to stay? Is he going to go? At this point, who cares? One year of Pete Alonso is a hell of a lot better than the way they've rolled through this offseason so far. I would sign up for that every day of the week. Isn't that what the Mariners do to players? Mm-hmm. Especially recently. Mm-hmm. Except they do it for the opposite reason. They do it to get the cash off the books, not to go make more money.

[00:15:35] Explain what you mean by the Mariners do that to players. Well, we've talked about the detractor for players wanting to sign in Seattle because you don't know if you're going to get traded away. You sign a deal somewhere, you want to plant roots, and then the team up and trades you. So if you sign Alonso to a deal like this, like, oh, we don't know if he's going to be here next year. Well, I'm sorry. Like, we don't know if Castillo's going to be here next year because you guys don't want to pay him. Mm-hmm. So, like, what's it going to be?

[00:16:01] And I'm not saying the Mariners think that way about Pete because they were willing to do that for Carlos Santana. Right? The worst baseball player. Right. And about eight years older. Mm-hmm. So, if they've shown they were willing to do that at a lower price, can they do it for a higher price? I'm just going to repeat myself again. I don't care about 2026. I don't care about 2027. I don't care about 2028.

[00:16:30] If Pete's under contract, technically, even though if there's an opt-out for all four of those years, I don't really care about those years. Let's worry about 2025. Mm-hmm. How about that? How about we worry about 2025 first and then worry about the latter years? Great. If Pete Alonso signs in Seattle, that would break the Boris curse. Again, there has not been a Scott Boris free agent that signed with the Mariners in free agency. And this could be part of it, too.

[00:16:58] Why the Mariners may not be in play here or why they may not end up landing him. Because Scott Boris may not want him to play there. We know the relationship there is less than ideal between Scott Boris and the Seattle Mariners. So could they fix it for Pete Alonso? Would Scott Boris just say, you know what? You're willing to pay him what I want him to get paid for the next year and I'll let it happen? I don't know. But they should be in on it. Speaking of Scott, good reason to stick around to the end of the Adam Jude interview.

[00:17:28] He dropped a heck of a Scott Boris nugget. Yes, he did. Heck of a Scott Boris nugget. But we're not going to spoil it because we want you to listen to the entire Adam Jude interview. Before we get to Jude, though, let's at least mention the Mariners did sign their international class on Wednesday. We're planning to have Joe Doyle on next week's episode, next Wednesday's episode of Future Star Series. He knows a heck of a lot more about all of these guys than we do. But we'll highlight the two top ones here briefly.

[00:17:56] Basically, Jorger Batista and Kendry Martinez are their top two international class signees. This would have been the money if Roki was interested. They would have paid him. But instead, they inked their class. These are some exciting dudes. Yeah. And look, we can tell you a little bit on a baseline level here. But that's the whole reason we're going to have Joe on this upcoming Wednesday. It's because he can tell us a whole lot more and help everybody learn a whole lot more. Which is why we're going to have him on. Because he knows this stuff, like the back of his hand.

[00:18:26] Well, we can tell you right now, off the top, Jorger Batista is pretty exciting. This guy has 65 grade power. And he's supposed to have the chance to play center field. So he's a great athlete, runs really well, and has 65 grade power. For context, you know who also has 65 grade power? Lazaro Montez. Lazaro Montez is not the athlete that Jorger Batista is. There's a blurb in Daniel Kramer's article, and it's right up about this international class,

[00:18:56] that the power, for some people, is the best on the international scene in half a decade. That's pretty good. It's pretty exciting. And that means higher than Laz Montez, by the way. Right. He's not a center fielder. Love you, Laz. But he's not a center fielder. No. Lazaro Montez is going to be a corner outfielder slash first baseman slash DH. DH. That doesn't mean he couldn't be really good. In fact, we think he will be really good. But he's just not going to play center field.

[00:19:24] Jorger Batista, for where it stands right now, could legitimately play center field. And they say he's supposed to run really well. So look, is it going to take him a long while to get up to the big leagues? Of course. We probably won't see him until roughly, if everything goes perfectly, 2029 or 2030. But can you start to get excited about who he could be? Of course. The guy's nickname is The Beast. You don't get that from hitting like Louisa Rice.

[00:19:55] Boom. I'm on fire today. I'm getting shots in left and right. So just like it's not a smart strategy, we might have to do a Louisa Rice dig every episode now. We might. Depending on how much people stick to this. Lyle, is Kendry Martinez like Tony Gwynn? Let's just go with that. I mean, it's interesting. He got similar money to Batista. Yeah, more actually. Oh yeah, actually by technicality he got a little bit more, which is interesting.

[00:20:21] I think they say he's supposed to be just more of a prototypical shortstop slash infielder. I don't know if he has any crazy, crazy tools. But again, interesting player. And I think we'll learn more from Joe on Wednesday. A very good hit tool. But it is hit over powers. Right. As far as you can read on the base level. Right. Okay. Quickly here. Let's take a pause. We're going to talk to you guys about our friends over at Pogaccia's Pub 85. That's over in Kirkland. Awesome spot to go hang out. You need games to go watch.

[00:20:51] You can head over there. Divisional round this weekend. Guys, that's the best weekend in all of NFL football, arguably. Those are the best games of the year a lot of the time. So you want a place to go? Go over there. You get some great food. You go during happy hour. Drink specials. Well, they're off the charts. 2 to 6 p.m. Monday through Friday. Deals are $3 and $4 for happy hour drinks. How great are those? They're pretty awesome.

[00:21:18] So if you want all of that, you can head over to Pogaccia's Pub 85 in Kirkland. Go check it out. With all the storylines of the Mariners offseason, we did want to get some insight from the guys with the most insight. And that's why we're grateful that Adam Jude was able to take some time to talk to us. I mentioned the Boris Nugget that you're going to want to stick to. It's at the end of the conversation with him. But some really good insight on the conversation around Rokey, some of their inactivity this offseason.

[00:21:47] And I thought there was one other really interesting thing that Adam said. You and I have observed this. We have our comments. We have our mentions. We can see what people think. But Jude's right there in the camp with us about fans being pissed off. When we get a diversity of perspective about what the state of the fan base is, A, it makes you feel a little bit more justified about your point.

[00:22:15] But man, it really does make it not only justify yourself, it feels a lot more real. Some great stuff from Adam as always. He's great. He has been unbelievably awesome on that beat since he started. And he hasn't been on it that long so far. But he's killed it ever since he stepped into this role. And we love having him on. We love talking to him at the park. Super knowledgeable. Super insightful.

[00:22:38] But yeah, we tried to get to the bottom of basically everything that would be on anybody's minds as a Mariners fan as of right now. A little Rokey Sasaki. Asked about the budget and why it is where it is. Why did they decide to operate in this way this winter? Talked a little bit about Pete. Talked a little bit about the free agent market and the trade market. It's all in there. So if you've got questions that are on your mind this offseason, hopefully they're answered here with Adam.

[00:23:05] Because we asked some questions that we know are on our minds. And if they're on our minds, we're guessing they're on some of yours too. We won't keep you any longer. Let's get you to that interview with Adam Jude. All right, we got Seattle Times Mariners beat writer Adam Jude on with us. Now a recurring guest. Adam, congratulations on earning that title.

[00:23:27] I'd imagine this offseason since we last saw you at winter meetings has been pretty relaxing for you because of what the Marers have done. Do I have that right? Yes, absolutely. Thanks for having me, fellas. Great to be back. Let me kind of brighten up the doom and gloom here of the winter. Yeah, you know, I spent three full days cleaning out the garage, organizing. I got two teenagers now.

[00:23:54] So we got more of an official kind of weight room down in there too. So I've been trying to up my game a little bit just to keep up with my kids, pretty good athletes, and they're getting after it. So pretty proud of them. I was like, well, I can contribute. And we got some new equipment and all that for Christmas. And so clean out the garage a little bit more and, you know, just keep checking the social medias and the news and checking in with sources and just not a lot going on. So, yeah, I've enjoyed my winter in that regard. How about you guys?

[00:24:24] Before I answer that, who lifts more, you or Divish? I will say absolutely it's Divish. I mean, look at the guy, a little fire hydrant. How could he not? Those shoulders and those chest muscles. But, you know, I'll go for the more for the lean muscles. But it's not a competition here. I mean, I could obviously run circles around him on the basketball court. He knows that too. But it's not a competition. It's not a competition.

[00:24:50] Have you had the situation yet where you're playing basketball and the Mariners make a move the way Divish had since your time on the beat the last couple of years? Where's coaching? Where was it? Oh, when they made the Edgar move official and all that in November. I was coaching basketball. And I was kicking myself because I had heard about it earlier in that week. And I think Daniel Kramer officially broke it. So that was one of those, like, I'm on the middle of a basketball court. Can't do anything about it for another hour. So called Ryan real quick.

[00:25:18] And that's the great part about the situation we had. Ryan and I work well together and we're able to kind of pair well in when situations like that come up. Before we jump into the Mariners offseason, is that it? Do you call a timeout in that scenario? Like, guys, like, you could talk. I just need to look at my phone here. There's a couple of us. I'm like, I'm going to peel off here for a minute. I check my phone and make a quick call. Worked out. Worked out for a while. So they're eighth graders, too. They don't they don't need me at this point. I most of the time I'm holding them back anyway. So probably helped.

[00:25:48] Yeah. Let's jump into this offseason. We can we can ask it, say, the simplest way. There's been a lot of inactivity this offseason for the Mariners. Why has it been this way? Oh, it's getting right to it. A combination of things. Obviously, they just don't have a lot of resources, the budget to go out and spend on the top end free agents. The Mariners have made that clear. Ryan and I sat down with John Stanton last June. He laid it out.

[00:26:18] He was pretty transparent. We talked a lot about the root sport situation at the time. Which does feel like it's in a little bit better situation now. I do. I do think it's a better situation now than it was a year ago at this time. There still is some uncertainty there going forward. There's a certainty for the whole industry and sports in general across all the streaming and cable platforms and all that. But John Stanton laid it out pretty clearly. Like, this is who we are. This is our organizational philosophy.

[00:26:47] We're a draft, develop trade operation. And that's what we're going to be going forward. You know, they're not going to jump into the deep end for the most expensive, oldest free agents. They've told us that and they've proven it year in and year out. So we can talk about Pete Alonso here too. And I do think it's a worthwhile discussion. But that's just not who the Mariners are.

[00:27:13] So a couple of facts they have about, they entered the offseason with about $15 million to spend. And yes, they were been in discussions on a Luis Castillo deal on a couple different options, iterations, iterations with that. And there's just nothing. They didn't pull the trigger on anything because at the end of the day, they didn't feel like it made them better. And I don't think they should trade Luis Castillo. Again, he's coming off a little bit of a down year for him.

[00:27:42] And I just, I think he's more valuable to the Mariners than he would be for anyone else out there. In part because he's pitching in Seattle. He gets a little bump for that, for pitching at T-Mobile Park. He's worth what he's making. And we know how good he is in big games too. And the Mariners expect to be playing in big games in September and they hope in October too. So it's a roundabout way of saying they haven't made a big splash. They haven't made that big trade for Castillo or anyone else because they just haven't felt like it made them better.

[00:28:11] And then no one wants their prospects right now either. You look around the whole landscape in the industry, how many prospects have really moved this offseason? The only real deal was Garrett Crochet and the White Sox who are one of the only teams that are actually tanking and rebuilding right now. The Miami Marlins are the other one that come to mind. And they don't really have any other major leaguers available that you would want to go out and show some prospects for. So kind of a three-pronged answer there, I suppose, a little bit.

[00:28:37] Haven't found any real takers for Luis Castillo that makes sense for them is the biggest reason. That could change in the next few weeks. They still got time. But again, if it's me, I just find it really hard to see a situation where they feel like they can trade Luis Castillo and get better for 2025. Let me ask you this while you mentioned the budget. I've wanted to ask you this all winter. I'm guessing a lot of people have a similar question. So I'll just ask it.

[00:29:07] You were the one that basically made the report about what the budget was expected to be. About it initially, yes. I mean, all right. But you were the one who kind of made the report about what it was going to be. So I'm just curious to ask you this. From what you've gathered, from people you've talked to, why do you feel like the budget is what it is? And this is not me sitting here asking why didn't they sign Juan Soto.

[00:29:29] This is more me sitting here asking why do they feel like they can't spend an additional, let's say, $15 million to put themselves in range to, say, get Christian Walker and another mid-level bat this winter. Yeah, and that was the, I think we had maybe talked about it behind the scenes. I had laid that out in print and in our podcast with Ryan too. Like, to me, that's the move that made the most sense. If you're going to trade Luis Castillo, there was sort of a Nico Horner opportunity there.

[00:29:58] Or then you save about $10 million for 2025 with Castillo's contract. And you turn around and you're able to sign a Christian Walker who signed for $60 million over three years. Totally reasonable. Yes, he's 34. There's some downside. There's some downside to every free agent. But a guy who filled so many needs, first base, can slug, leadership, all that stuff that you need. He's a proven guy. It made way too much sense. But again, all those dominoes have to line up and fall perfectly for you.

[00:30:28] It's a challenging one. And I do think that calculus and all that changed pretty quickly when the Cubs got in on Kyle Tucker too, right? All of a sudden, they're not selling. They're not trying to trim the budget like they were coming into the offseason too. So why are they not spending? Lyle, frankly, I'm not the person to ask. Again, Ryan and I sat down with John Stanton in June in his office. It was an hour-long interview. We touched on a lot of different topics.

[00:30:58] It's a good question that I know Mariners fans should be asking, have been asking, and are getting frustrated with. I get the sense that I've talked to a couple other Mariners folks, folks who have been around the team for a long time. It feels to me like it's kind of boiled over to a point that I really haven't filled before with the fan base, right? Like, everyone sees it, right? We've seen it for a few years now. The core is in place. This is a really solid roster.

[00:31:29] 1 through 12, maybe 1 through 15. This is a team that should contend, that should expect, as they said last year, to contend and go out and win the AL West. They were in position in June to do that. Obviously, fall off a cliff. But they just need that extra 10%, that extra nudge that Christian Walker feels like to put you over the top. Long-winded answer. I don't have a great answer at the end of this long-winded sentence here. They should be going on spend.

[00:31:59] Again, you see these projections. You see the revenue numbers from different sources out there. Frankly, I don't know how reliable those are. There's a reason we don't print. ESPN doesn't print. USA Today doesn't print. MLB teams' revenues and forecasting all that stuff. Just because they've never been made public. There's a reason why we're probably never going to have a salary gap in Major League Baseball. Because owners aren't going to show their work.

[00:32:23] They're not going to open their bank accounts and show the Players Association just how much they're making. Yeah. Can the Mariners afford more? Probably. But at the end of the day, I haven't seen the books. I'm never going to see the books. I can ask. And I've talked to people. People say, yeah, this is roughly what we have to spend this winter. And, you know, it's a good idea for them to put that out there. On the one hand, just so people can set reasonable expectations.

[00:32:49] And they have an explanation for why they're not going after Alex Bregman or Pete Alonso. Again, guys that make total sense for them. The Mariners, again, until John Stanton, until the ownership group changes its tune, they're just never going to be in on those types of guys when they're free agents. And that is historically how the Mariners have operated, too. You go back to previous regimes and this ownership group has obviously been part of the ownership group, you know, for decades. Not just since they took over from Nintendo a decade ago.

[00:33:17] But, again, I'm rambling over here loud because I feel like I'm trying to get back to a decent answer and give fans some reasons. But at the end of the day, you know, I can ask the questions, but I don't have a great answer. That's something we're actually going to have to continue to ask ownership about going forward. Yeah. But before TJ gets to his next question, I do just want to follow up one thing with what you said. I'm glad to hear on your end, like, that we're not crazy in the sense you're seeing what it feels like

[00:33:46] a lot of people are seeing in the sense of you said you've never seen the fans like this. Because, frankly, we haven't either. Like, fans get mad. But what I've seen, like, what we've seen this offseason and even last offseason, like, it's kind of unprecedented, right, with how frustrated people are? Yeah, people, you see it. You see how good these pitchers are. And you see how much they've grown with Bryce Miller and Brian, particularly the last couple years. And it's like, oh my gosh, they've done it again with two other young arms on top of Logan and George. And it's like, this is a special, really rare group.

[00:34:14] And I think Seattle baseball fans are smart enough to recognize, like, it's not going to be like this forever. It's probably not going to be like this for very long, just given the volatility of pitching. They're blowing it. They're wasting this opportunity. They wasted the best rotation they've ever had. They wasted one of the best rotations in baseball over the last couple decades. How do you not get in the playoffs with that starting rotation?

[00:34:42] And how are you not doing everything you can to supplement that right now? Again, you don't need to overhaul your lineup. There are some good pieces there. You're one through three. You're one through four is really solid right now. You drop in a Christian Walker. You drop in a Pete Alondra in the middle of that. All of a sudden, you're the favorites in the ALS, probably. I think that's realistic. The Mariners just don't, the ownership group, as they've proven time and again, just doesn't quite see it that way. They're content to add on the margins.

[00:35:10] And they feel like they're good enough to contend as it is. They're probably right that they can contend they're good enough. They're an 85-win team, probably, as constructed right now, give or take. If things go right, maybe they can push for 90. But as it stands right now, they're probably going to be picked third in the ALS, right? No better than that. Mm-hmm. Did they misjudge the market this offseason? Because they had a similar budgetary constraint last offseason and were still able to transact

[00:35:39] and add it. It did require dumping salary, but they were pretty aggressive when it came to doing that. They haven't really done that this offseason. Does that circle back to a misconception about this offseason of what they thought they could do? So, potentially, they might have misread the market on Luis Castillo. Because, again, once we saw in early December, the market for free agent starting pitchers, older free agent starting pitchers, like, whoa, whoa. You know, all these guys just going off the board.

[00:36:07] And, again, Kikuchi, you know, $63 million over three years. It's like, well, if he gets that, Luis is worth exactly what he's getting, if not a bargain. But, again, teams have to trade something and then pay Luis Castillo's contract, too. So, they might have misread that a little bit. At the same time, I have thought about this. Like, Mariners fans, in part, I think, are frustrated, yes, by the inactivity,

[00:36:37] but also because they've just become so accustomed to so much activity these last few years. That's just how Jerry DiPoto operates, right? He loves to transact. He loves to stay busy. He wants, he's always wheeling and dealing. He's as active as any executive in baseball over the course of his career. I think part of it might have been strategic on the Mariners' part, too, just there be a little more thorough, a little more cautious, a little more risk-averse, not so willy-nilly.

[00:37:03] Like, again, like, Tristan Kostas was available to them. They could have kind of come up with a deal for that. That was the guy I was even circling in September that made a ton of sense. The Mariners, by all accounts, did a deep dive. They did their homework. At the end of the day, they came to the conclusion that he wasn't a great fit for T-Mobile Park, wasn't a great fit for what they're looking for. And I think that's encouraging if you're an Mariners fan. You want them doing, making baseball moves for the right reasons, right?

[00:37:32] If you're going to give up a lot, if you're going to give up, whether it's prospects or Luis Castillo, you want to make sure what you're bringing back makes sense. Not just that, you know, it's Teoscar Fernandez. It's a name. It's a proven guy. Like, does he work for what you're trying to do? And I'll still say Teoscar Fernandez trade was maybe one of the best trades Jerry DiPoto has made. On paper, it made a ton of sense. All of us, I think, celebrated that at the time. You just don't know how a guy's going to react in your ballpark,

[00:38:00] specifically when it comes to the Mariners until he gets here. But to answer your question, TJ, you know, they might have misread it a little bit. At the same time, like, would you rather have what they had to do last offseason? A ton of transactions early just to trim the payroll. They had to get rid of, what, $30 million just so then they could rebuild with basically the same amount of money. You get the two Mitches. You get Polanco. Am I forgetting anything else? Like, those are your three main bats, at least. Rayleigh.

[00:38:31] Rayleigh, obviously, was the significant one. One guy who would, you know, Marine layer be damned. Doesn't matter wherever he's hitting. And, yeah, let's not forget, like, Rayleigh is a significant part of what they're trying to do in 2025, too. Is he a guy you're going to throw out there every day and give 650 at-bats to? Probably not. Like, he's still a three-quarter time player for you, and you want to use him in the right situations. But he was really good, and I think there's confidence that he can be really good again. This year.

[00:39:02] But, yeah, I was kind of thinking about that, too. Would Meritiv fans rather have last offseason where they just had to get rid of Kelnick? They had to just dump Eugenio Suarez for nothing. And then you went out to add the Mitches and Jorge and Luke Rayleigh. Like, yes, there was a lot of activity, but what did it? You basically ended up in the same place, right? Like, Ray, would you rather have that or would you rather have them being patient, looking for the right strategic moment to strike? That still might be out there for them to do here.

[00:39:31] Again, the Jorge Blanco deal came down, I think, on January 29th last year. Remember, Gino Suarez, Jesse Winkercade was in spring training, right, in 2022. There's still time. I'm not saying that, you know, there's something imminent or that I have a ton of confidence that they'll be able to pull off a splash move. But there's still time for them to kind of raise their floor at worst. And so this is the last thing you should be telling Meritiv fans.

[00:39:59] But, you know, maybe a little more patience here could pay off. I'm not saying it will. I'm not saying that Meritiv fans should be patient. But what else do you have at this point? You're just hoping that Jerry can pull off something here in the next few weeks. So speaking of patience, do you feel like at this point a Luis Castillo trade is probably dead? And I'm with you. I don't think the Mariners should move him. But if it were to happen, do you think it's kind of done at this point?

[00:40:27] Or do you think the Alex Bregman signing could open it back up once that kind of once that happens? Just because the teams he's talking with, Cubs, Red Sox, Tigers, Nets, those are all teams the Mariners have been linked to with Castillo a little bit. Like, could that open it back up? I wouldn't say it's dead. But it just feels like the closer we get to spring training, the less likely it is. Because, again, there's so many other dominoes that would have to fall after that. And what's left?

[00:40:53] Okay, you save 10, 20, whatever you end up saving on Luis Castillo's salary. Like, then what are you going to turn around and spend that on? There's just not, you know, does Nolan Arenado swapping out Luis Castillo for Nolan Arenado really make you better at the bottom, at the end of the day, bottom line? But it's a two and a half win player for a two and a half win player making roughly the same amount. And again, like, you're trading something to get Arenado. You're the mess of the contract.

[00:41:20] Arenado probably doesn't want to come here anyway, so it's kind of a moot point. But something like that was, you know, again, where it's like you're swapping out, you know, a veteran pitcher for a veteran third baseman just because you have a need there. Good. Now you're weakening your strength. And I still go back to, like, Luis Castillo has been a really good Mariner. I feel like a lot of people have just labeled him as a pitcher on the decline this winter, and his value has dropped, and other teams are trying to get Mariner to drop the asking price and all that, too.

[00:41:50] And maybe the Mariners deserve a little credit for that, for holding firm. Like, no, we know how good he is, and, you know, he's worth what he is, and this is our asking price. And at the end of the day, I'll repeat what I said earlier, but I think he's just more valuable to the Mariners than he is to just about any other team. And you just don't know you're bringing a new bat here, as we've seen time and again. Like, how was that hitter going to react at T-Mobile Park? You have more or less a sure thing with Luis. Just stick with that.

[00:42:19] Roll back with your five, knowing that that's potentially the best rotation again in baseball. Adam, we were all there in Dallas when Jerry DiPoto was talking of the news that has come full circle this week and Roki Sasaki is narrowing down his decision. The Mariners had came out at that time in early December and said that they wanted to make their pitch to Roki Sasaki a priority. And as far as we know, they haven't met with, they never met with Roki Sasaki. I'm curious for two parts here.

[00:42:48] First of all, just to confirm from your and Divis' side, they did not meet with him, correct? Correct. There's no indication that they met with him. Again, there's been silence from the Mariners in that regard. And Joel Wolfe, Sasaki's U.S.-based agent here, has not talked about teams specifically. So, yeah, there's been no leaks in that regard. Obviously, the reporting this week, he's down to the Dodgers with the Padres and the Blue Jays as the outlier there. But again, all signs pointed to the Dodgers and Padres from the very beginning.

[00:43:18] There were some leaks and some rumors about, you know, even some, you know, throughout the world tampering or ever early contact with a couple of those teams early on too. I don't know that the Mariners ever really had a chance. It's, I think it's okay for Jerry and the Mariners to be excited early on in the process about something like that. To quote Jerry, you know, they had a good story. They have a good story to tell. And they did. You know, you look at their pitching development.

[00:43:44] At the end of the day, yes, they have really good pitching development, as good as anyone in baseball. They don't have the overall reputation that the Dodgers do. No one in baseball does right now. And the reason the Padres apparently are finalists too is because Ud Arvish is Roke's mentor. He's been really close. And so I thought the Padres made sense for him from the very beginning.

[00:44:07] Now that he's in and talking to the Dodgers and talking to the Dodgers players and seeing what the Dodgers are all about and the buzz and the excitement there, like, I would be shocked if he doesn't pick the Dodgers. Like, no one in baseball is beating out the Dodgers right now. That's just not happening. Honestly, he'd be crazy not to pick the Dodgers right now. So, sorry, TJ, I cut you off to the second part. No, you're good. I was going to say, that's a much more rational look at the whole situation than what Lyle and I put out for our Wednesday podcast this week.

[00:44:37] But that's fine. So, and we're trying to think about it this way in terms of, you know, why he wouldn't think about the Mariners. Maybe he did always have his mind made up and there was nothing they could do. With everything the Mariners had to offer, like, you feel like the pitch should be stronger and have a little bit more pull on Rokey. So, this could tie back to all free agents because it leads to the lack of transactions they're able to get done.

[00:45:04] We've known they've had a perception problem in the past. Do we feel like it's getting worse? Hmm. That's a really good question. And it's possible. I would say, just as Mariner fans are, the drumbeat is getting louder on the ownership against ownership and the lack of spending. I think that's industry-wide.

[00:45:30] I introduced myself to Scott Boris at the All-Star Game, you know, during the press conference. He was hovering around Pete Alonso during the Media Day events. Each player, each All-Star has their little pop-up podium. And obviously, Pete Alonso being a free agent, coming into his free agent season, you know, Scott Boris was standing there. So, I introduced myself. This was coming off in sport.

[00:45:57] Boris obviously was still repping Cal Raleigh at the time. And I was like, hey, I've been meaning to touch base and introduce myself. Wanted to ask about Cal Raleigh. And he basically was like, well, you know, until that ownership group, you know, kind of turns a corner. He's like, I just don't know if anything's going to happen with Cal specifically. And so I said, okay. That's kind of what I figured.

[00:46:22] But to hear it from him, you know, rang a little more true, right? And again, Scott Boris is going to say things. His job is to grab up the price, right? For his clients and all that stuff. But he's really good at his job. And again, I don't think it's just him either. I think industry-wide, people recognize that this is what the Mariners are. Again, if they tell you what they are, we should believe them. And so, yes, maybe. Is it getting worse? I don't know.

[00:46:50] I just think that, you know, this is the reality of who they are and what they've been. And I think players recognize that. But last one for you, because I know you've got to jump. But speaking of Scott Boris' clients, there's been stuff today about Pete Alonzo and his price potentially going down. Because all of a sudden, it seems less and less likely he could go back to the Met. Now, will he end up a Mariner? Nobody knows. The fit makes sense.

[00:47:15] Do you think there's any chance at all they would think about diving in on that route, even with the restraints that they have? Yeah. I haven't circled back with anyone specifically on this. I just have a hard time picturing the Mariners all of a sudden pivoting. And even if his price has gone way down, I saw the report. I think Joel Sherman said the Mets had offered three years, around $70 million was their last offer to Alonzo. And they rejected that, which is no surprise that he would reject that.

[00:47:45] But I'm like, again, that makes sense. You're talking just a little bit more of the Christian Walker. I, frankly, would rather have Christian Walker than Pete Alonzo. But Pete Alonzo, again, makes perfect sense. Profiles what the Mariners need right now. Split time at first. DH Ware, it doesn't matter. He's your number four hitter. And he would still hit 30 bombs, even with half his games at T-Mobile Park. So, no. I just don't see it, Lyle. It's okay for Mariner fans to get a little excited.

[00:48:12] I also would caution, again, this is who they are. He's 30 years old. He's a right-handed slugger. Unathletic. Not great at first base. Probably going to be a DH here the next year or two, depending on where he lands. And Mariners like their athletic, you know, they've pivoted more to athletic guys, versatile guys. And, no. I just don't see it. Again, not to, you know, distinguish all hope before it even really happens.

[00:48:42] But if they were going to be in on that, I think we would have heard about it already. Like, he's been out there a month longer than most of us expected. His market has really dwindled. Sounds like the Blue Jays are the frontrunner at this point. And they've been desperate to land. Like the Mariners, they've been kind of desperate to bring in a big bat for the last couple years, too. And that struck out at every turn. And so, you know, I could see that as a good fit for the Blue Jays.

[00:49:08] But, again, even at the price where you feel like the Mariners should be able to afford him, even if they could, even if it wasn't a budget, it's just philosophically, I just don't think that's the guy that the Mariners would want to spend their money on at this point. Adam, it's always awesome getting you on. I appreciate you taking some time for us. We'll get to see you at the ballpark here soon. Spring Brandon's coming up and then opening day not too far after. So thanks again. Thank you, guys. Like we said at the start, Adam is great.

[00:49:37] He's been awesome on the beat. We appreciate all the time he gave us. And I think it's pretty fair to say he was insightful, TJ, because if we want to spend a few minutes taking away what we heard, we could start in a lot of different places. But if you're going to pick one place to begin, what jumped out the most? This isn't something new we learned, but hearing that little Scott Boris nugget at the end was not, it's first of all, not reassuring.

[00:50:03] It's complicated because Scott Boris is no longer Cal Raleigh's agent, but Scott Boris essentially saying and Adam telling us of Scott saying something out loud of him imagining that an extension is not likely if Mariners ownership doesn't change their ways when it comes to spending. That's not even a Cal Raleigh specific thing, Lyle. That's an entire roster thing as we've continued to talk about for weeks. Are they willing to invest these guys?

[00:50:30] And the biggest agent of them all in Major League Baseball doesn't really think so. That's not a very encouraging thing to hear. Well, there's a bigger picture here. So yes, everything you said is true. And the fact that Cal Raleigh's not with Scott Boris anymore opens the door up a little bit more for something that could happen down the road, although I still wouldn't hold your breath. But I think the bigger takeaway here from what Scott Boris said to Adam is what we've all believed and damn near known forever now.

[00:51:00] But this is Scott Boris and through Adam us hearing that he confirms everything that we've believed is this is the Mariners reputation. What do we just spend time on during Wednesday's episode about Roki Sasaki and us speculating why he didn't take a meeting with the Mariners is they seem to not have a very good perception around the league. People don't take them very seriously.

[00:51:24] And when you hear the biggest agent in baseball say, well, this ownership group is going to have to change its tone for anything to get done with Cal Raleigh. And if he feels that way about somebody that's already under team control with the Mariners, how do you think he feels about his other clients that the Mariners would have interest in and having them go and play in the Pacific Northwest? He doesn't take it seriously.

[00:51:45] And I can't imagine there's many other agents around the league that feel that differently from Scott Boris, considering agents jobs are to do what's best for their players and get them paid the most that they can. And if the notion is here's a group and a team that is unserious about paying players when we've got other suitors and other teams that are, why would we send them to Seattle? So that was a good point.

[00:52:10] He was, Adam, I'd say brought us back to earth a little bit on the Roki Sasaki situation, brought a very grounded and well thought out process of Roki's decision making, meaning me making it seem like there was it was zero. It was it was always felt like it was going to be zero, even if we didn't want it to be zero for the Mariners chances with Roki Sasaki. There was no, as he said, no confirmation of a meeting.

[00:52:38] That's what we're going off of that. Nobody has confirmed on either side whether or not the Mariners actually met with Roki Sasaki. Then the budget to just. Yeah, let me just say this. Let me quickly say this about about the Sasaki thing. Number one, you're telling me we don't have calm, mellow, objective opinions on here all the time.

[00:53:02] I mean, no, I'd like to think I think I'd like to think I'm one of the most even keeled people that talks Mariners on the entire earth. I mean, that's just me personally. You know, I'm pretty even keeled guy when it comes to the M's. I'm glad we said what we said about the whole Roki situation on Wednesday, because I really do feel like there is that there's there is allowed to be that level of of discussion about Roki Sasaki.

[00:53:29] If he was like, for example, if he was aiming for the Dodgers and the Padres for the entire time. And the thing Adam did mention is that there might have there was some tampering or could have been some tampering before the window open for him to negotiate, which I would imagine those those two teams are the two teams he was talking about trying to court Roki Sasaki to Major League Baseball. So then why? Why can't the Mariners be that? This is the real question. Why not?

[00:53:56] Why can't they? Why can't they be someone they look across the pond at and say, oh, interesting. Great pitchers for great development. Man, that seems great. Let's let's go back to what we just said about Scott Boris doesn't feel like the organization has a great reputation, which I know is not groundbreaking news. But that's what it feels like. And it feels like that reputation has made its way overseas as well, because guys from Japan are not picking Seattle.

[00:54:20] And there's that really interesting note that we didn't that we speculated about on Wednesday, by the way, and we actually haven't talked about on the podcast yet. There was a report out of Toronto that you say Kikuchi at least spoke to Roki about Toronto and it was a decent part of Roki ended up putting Toronto in his top three.

[00:54:44] If you say Kikuchi is talking to Roki Sasaki about Toronto, I'm pretty sure he's talking to him about Seattle, too. Yeah, I'm sure you say he's talking about his entire experience in Major League Baseball. So as we talked about on Wednesday's episode, yet you say time in Seattle did not end very well. Mm hmm. So let me say this, too, about the whole Roki sweepstakes, because, well, I had an additional thought on it.

[00:55:12] I know. I mean, you were mentioning the you say thing. No, I didn't forget my train of thought. And I don't want to change topics yet. So I'm trying to remember what I was going to say about Roki and the Mariners. Look, the fact that I get. Oh, this is what I was going to say. So let's be clear about this, too. Adam did say all the indication was they had no meetings. And what Divish said was from everything he has heard, they did not get a meeting.

[00:55:40] So if we're going to take those two and compile their information together, yeah, the Mariners probably didn't get a meeting. I don't think Divish has a reason to lie about that. I don't think Adam has a reason to lie about what he was saying. They probably did not get a meeting. And from our perspective, that's still the narrative here. Again, even if he wasn't going to sign with the Mariners, when you spend that much time trying to court somebody and you can't even get to the table, it's not a good look.

[00:56:07] That's I'm not going to go on a rant about it again because I did that plenty on Wednesday if you want to go listen to that. But if you can't even get to the table, still not a great look, even if he was even if he was pretty zoned in on the Dodgers and the Padres. Plus, what else are we going to do? You want us to spend two months speculating about tampering? I feel like that's a lot worse of a thing to spend all your time on than what said team is doing with said player. And if the Mariners aren't going to provide transparency about what's going on, then this is what we're going to sit here and speculate about.

[00:56:35] So did anything stand out to you about the budget? Let's see. I guess nothing crazy because Adam said what most of us feel like we already know is Adam continues to say that this is who the Mariners are. This is who they've been and this is who they told us they're going to be.

[00:56:56] They don't dip in to the deep end of the free agent pool, which, again, is an eye roll and actually not a smart strategy. But they don't do it. I mean, Adam talked about right. Him and Divish talked to Stanton for an hour over the summer. And clearly there were conversations that came up around this. And and Jude talked about that. He's brought up the Christian Walker thing.

[00:57:20] And regardless, the Mariners just don't see it that way, which is, again, an eye roll. And and I like I'd love to, like, shake them awake and say, hey, guess what? This could actually help. But in terms of what Adam said, I don't know if there was anything overly groundbreaking about the budget. It's what everybody knows. And it's expected to be about twelve million dollars the rest of the offseason.

[00:57:47] Right. That's what we that's about what we can assess. Right. So, you know, he said to us, obviously, it's a good question. Why don't they spend more? But they don't. And they don't always say, like we all say, I don't know. Right. They don't. Even though Divish and Jude got to talk to John Stanton for a while last summer, doesn't mean they're always going to give full detailed answers on it either. So they may not have a perfect answer on it. Nobody does.

[00:58:14] Last thing for me about this Jude conversation, like it's it's I don't know how the best way to get it out. But you see the most animated part of what Jude was talking about was he's saying they were wasting this rotation. Mm hmm. Keyword waste like it's get it is legitimately getting to the point. Right. Everybody sees it.

[00:58:40] Everybody's seeing it. Not everyone's going to say it all at once, but one by one, people are going to come out and they're going to say exactly what is happening. And it's unfortunate because it doesn't have to be this way. But what Jude said is that's what's happening. They are wasting it right now. I mean, where do you want to start? Jeff Passing called Mariners ownership poor on 710. Then Robert Murray said it are like who we got to know and really connect with. Well, at the winter meetings was saying it about the Mariners.

[00:59:07] You had the other ESPN writer along with Passing saying it about the Mariners. I'm going to blank on his name, but yeah, I'm not going to remember his name. Yeah, I'm blanking on it. But two ESPN ESPN writers said it. Just baseball guys said it. We've said it plenty. Jude said it. Divish has said it. Foul Territory said it. Other national people have said it. Your list is running out, Mariners. There ain't many more people to defend what you're doing.

[00:59:35] So you're right. Everybody sees it and fans included. It was interesting to hear Adam say too that he's seeing what we see. He's like, I've never seen the fan base this animated, frustrated. And we said, yeah, we clearly see the same thing. The two of us see it all the time. And I think there's a reason for it. I think people have pretty collectively come together to have a pretty similar opinion on what the Mariners are and what they're doing.

[01:00:04] And it's not overwhelmingly positive outside of what they've built with the rotation in their farm. And now we're going to see what the result is going to be when the season rolls around. How's it going to look? That's something we've talked about here this offseason about attendance. The attendance went down by 300,000 fans this year. Does the number drop again? What does it look like in the middle of the summer when it's perfect nights on a Friday and Saturday night? Are people still going to show up then? What about during the middle of the week?

[01:00:34] That stuff is what people notice. Yeah, it is. So, Adam was awesome. Hopefully you guys learned some stuff from that. We certainly did. And I'll just continue to say it. Him and Divish both really do do such a great job on that beat. And we hope both of them are here a long time because they really do some great coverage. That I think a lot of Mariners fans get a lot of benefit out of. So, shout out to Adam. We love having him on. We'll have to do it again soon.

[01:01:04] All right. That just about wraps up this edition of the Marine Layer Podcast. You guys know the drill. You want to listen to the full-form podcast. You can do so wherever you get your audio pods. Make sure to download, rate, and review with a five-star review if you're over there. If you're on YouTube, like, comment, subscribe. Please hit that subscribe button. It really does help us out if you do. You're supporting us big time, big time. If you just take a second to hit subscribe on YouTube. And follow us on social media, Instagram, TikTok. Well, TikTok for now.

[01:01:31] YouTube Shorts, Twitter, and Blue Sky at Marine Layer Pods. It's the last time you can say that. Well, maybe they'll work something out in the next couple of weeks. Come on, Mr. Beast. Buy TikTok like you said you're going to. Help us out. Help the world out. Do it. One final time, by the way. Live show. First one, February 20th. Thursday, February 20th. 6 p.m. Moss Bay Hall in Kirkland. We would love, love, love to see you guys there.

[01:02:00] And we'll keep providing details as we get closer to the event. That's TJ. I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon.