Episode 223: Ryan Divish (Seattle Times)

[00:00:00] Welcome to episode number 223 of the Marine Layer Podcast. We welcome on our friend and recurring guest Ryan Divish to talk about his thoughts from the Mariners opening weekend, what he thinks about the Cal Raleigh extension, and about the Mariners roster going forward. Here's your guys reminder, everything you need to find if you want to stay on top of all of our stuff, it's all on our website, marinelayerpod.com. If you want to watch the episodes, you want to listen to the episodes, you want to leave a review, you want to buy our merch.

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[00:01:04] And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network, recording post-game on Monday night, March 31st. The Mariners lost to the Tigers tonight 9-6 and the season's over. I really don't think there's any other way to conclude this. I know we're five games in. This is the end, dog. It's at one turn through the rotation, one series and change. I've seen enough. We're done.

[00:01:33] Season's over. I mean, we say it every year. I mean, if you don't believe us, why don't we turn it over to our pal Stewie, who says the same thing? It's a real shame, Lyle. Actually, that's not even Stewie. That's some PA announcer in Family Guy with Stewie getting mad. But, yeah. Did you have on your bingo card the Mariners giving up 18 hits at T-Mobile Park all season long? No. Yeah.

[00:02:03] Not in one game. Mm-mm. Yeah, Monday was a tough outing. Dude, what is it with the Tigers? Well, it obviously wasn't Emerson's greatest start in the world, to say the least, but I don't know if this is one of those games where the Tigers just gave Mariners fits, rather than like how it was last year when it was just a nightmare to play those guys. They were pesky. They wouldn't let you go. They fought through at bats. But this one, the game just kind of got out of hand and they were trying to play catch up.

[00:02:33] It was one bad inning from Emerson. He didn't know where his fastball was going until it went down the middle and then the Tigers wouldn't miss it. They crushed him when he threw it over the plate and he couldn't get a put-away pitch. Like that two-strike pitch to Baez, right? I mean, that kind of summarized it. Javi Baez stinks. But like when Javi's having that, it's going to be a tough night. I'm sure Emerson would tell you, yeah, not my best start. I can do a lot of things better. I'm sure he'd say the same thing. So it's only his first start.

[00:03:03] Let's remember that he is currently pitching for a guy that is a regular in the rotation and on the injured list in George Kirby. So for anybody that's going to overreact to one start, I'm not saying it was some great start. Just pump the brakes a little is my opinion. Again, he is currently filling the role of Kirby. Kirby's working his way back from the IL. Well, then we'll see what happens. It doesn't really make any sense because we did see this online from a lot of people.

[00:03:30] It was pretty widespread that don't want to see Emerson make his next start. Again, like his start sucked. He'd tell you his start sucked. It's not good enough. If the Mariners keep getting it, then Emerson's unfortunately not going to be pitching at the big league level like soon, right? Because it's just not a very good reflection on that. But like, are they getting different results from anyone else? No. Right. Like, think about the options, Lyle. Of anyone who's in AAA right now. The person that people most want to see is our guy, Logan Evans.

[00:04:00] I love Logan. I don't think he's ready for the big leagues right now. He's pitched all of what? Three and two thirds in AAA? Right. And not to say that he's not going to come up and be a good big league starter. But again, let's not rush the guy. I'm not going to say he needs innings. He needs to throw pitches against higher level competition. Sure. Like, this is a guy who was drafted in the 12th round, put up in AAA to start the year last year. He hasn't had that much time in the minor leagues.

[00:04:30] And he's still young. I mean, he's 23. So I'm not saying we're not going to see him this year. We will. We'll see him. But let him get his feet under him a little bit in AAA first. And if it's not Logan Evans, which I'm assuming is the reason the Mariners put him in AAA to start rather than the big leagues because they said, all right, we want to see him develop a little bit more too. Again, that's my guess. If that is their reasoning, if you were going to yank Emerson, then your options become Jonathan Diaz. It becomes Casey Lawrence. And now personally, I'm not signing up for that.

[00:05:00] I'd rather see Emerson. I'd rather just bank that Emerson's not going to have one of the four worst starts of his career again. Like, just know he's going to, he's working through some new stuff. I'll say the Velo was up tonight. It wasn't missing any bats, but the Velo was up, which was nice on a coolish night at the ballpark. So, yeah, I mean, give Emerson a couple, you know, he's going to pitch, I'd say what, twice or three times more at this point before Kirby comes back.

[00:05:28] Ryan in the interview said, I think May 1st at the latest for George Kirby. So that's kind of how that times out. Make it through those starts, and then you reevaluate where Emerson Hancock is, and he's got some time to work through his new repertoire as well. In terms of the entirely, do you have anything else on that? No, just I'm going to bet that Emerson bounces back in his next start. I'm going to bet it's not going to look anything like that. I think he's going to bounce back.

[00:05:52] I'm not sitting here and telling you he's going to throw eight shutout, but I think he's going to keep the Mariners in the game in his next time around, which is usually what he does when he pitches. How about from the weekend as a whole, if you were to pick one thing, what stood out? The offense looks quite unchanged. That's what stands out. I would agree based off the A-series, I actually kind of liked how it looked tonight. They hit doubles tonight. Yeah, that is true. It's positive.

[00:06:22] They did. They had a triple tonight too. I would like to see it for more than a game before I draw conclusions like that. Right, but they've only played five games, so we'd like to see everything for multiple games. And in the majority of them so far, it has looked unchanged. So that is what I'm going on so far. And most of their production has come from hitting home runs. Yeah. We are a Julio Sunday home run away from having a very, very hard conversation already on this podcast.

[00:06:52] In a game where they were terrible offensively. Yeah, shout out Brian Wu, who everybody knows I love to watch pitch for every reason that we saw on Sunday. Yeah, that is my takeaway. The strikeout rate stayed high too. It was 30% through the weekend. Which is too bad because I was actually a little encouraged on opening night when they only struck out seven times. I said, oh, at least strikeouts are down. Then they jumped back up. Then Jeffrey Springs got on the mound.

[00:07:19] What is it with these guys and junk baller lefties? This team is just neutralized beyond belief when they face softballing lefties. It's crazy. Yeah, JP Sears and Jeffrey Springs were, yeah, they were dealing this weekend. Let me pull this stat up that I sent you earlier because this stat. Yeah, before you get to your stat, I'll throw out another stat that I have on hand.

[00:07:49] Cal Raleigh added to this at the end of the game Monday that didn't make it look quite as bad. But the Mariners for the weekend as of the end of Sunday were, sorry, until the ninth inning of this Monday night game were three for 28 with runners in scoring position. You want to know why they're not scoring? That would be why.

[00:08:10] Like they did have some opportunities, especially in game one and in game three and tonight on Monday night's game for having the ability to hit some guys in in a non-homer fashion. No, they just did not do it. No. So this stat comes from an account called The Warmonger on Twitter.

[00:08:29] And I sent it to a couple people earlier because he went on Savant and found the number of fastballs at 90 miles an hour and below faced on opening weekend with results against them. Your Seattle Mariners saw the fifth most amount of fastballs at 90 miles an hour or below. Fifth most across the league. They got their fair share of slow heaters. How did they do against them? They slugged 200. Slugged 200.

[00:09:00] Not great. That's not good. Yeah. It was also, I'll say, a bad weekend to hit the ball in the air at the ballpark. Ball was not traveling at all. It, it, it blew, it shouldn't blow my mind, but it kind of blew my mind when I read that Randy arose a rain a lot lost 30 feet on a fly ball to center field on Sunday, 30 feet. Meaning the ball on a normal day. Lyle is like well into the pen.

[00:09:30] Which, yeah, that sucks. But welcome to T-Mobile Park in March and April. They're going to have to learn to adjust to this. And all the other teams that come into town have to adjust to it too. So you can't sit around for a month and a half just playing woe is me blaming the park. I'm not saying they're doing that, but you can't play that game because if you do, you're going to find yourself in a hole by the time May 1st rolls around. And the Mariners have been notorious for slow starts. Can't let it get to your head. And I thought Joe Doyle laid it out perfectly.

[00:09:59] He was tweeting about it a little bit. This is just not something you can be surprised about if you're playing on this team and you're hitting in this ballpark. You know what the deal is. Right. So you have to, you have to understand what it is. Bliss squared one up here on Monday that on a lot of nights gets out. Didn't get out. He got almost all of it for what he can get all of and didn't fly out of the yard. And we know Bliss has power. Bliss can leave the yard, but didn't on Monday. I have one final takeaway here.

[00:10:29] The attendance. Yeah. How do we feel? We noticed. I have some numbers for you. Let me throw these numbers out at you and then you can react to it. Okay. So I, I went and I looked last year's first five games and this year's first five games. Small sample, five out of 162 games. You can call me an idiot. You can say, oh, TJ, it's a small sample. That's fine.

[00:10:55] Same, but I will say same time of year, same roster for the most part, essentially same weather. Last year, they did play the Red Sox. I will note that's a much bigger brand than playing the athletics on opening weekend, but I digress. So let's take a look at the first four games. I'll include the fifth game. Actually, let's take a look at the first five games of the, of, of the season with the attendance right next to them. 2024 versus the Red Sox. Opening day attendance was 45,000 fans.

[00:11:24] Opening day attendance this year, 42,000. Both games taking place on a Thursday. The Friday after, game number two, 30,000 last year. This year, 25,000. On the Saturday, this year gets a win. 32,000 in 2024. 35,000 in 2025. Then on the Sunday game, 29,000 on a Sunday in 2024. 27,000 on Sunday in 2025.

[00:11:49] And if you're curious about the Monday statistics, the announced attendance last year on the Monday after was 21,000 fans. The announced attendance tonight at T-Mobile Park was 15,000. It's a 6,000 fan difference. Tonight being Monday when people listen to this on Wednesday. Yes. Monday. It's early and we'll have to see how this trends the rest of April.

[00:12:14] But those numbers say to me, they need to get off to a hot start and they need to start winning pretty quick. You can see it. The average, the difference between 23 and 24 of the, the average attendance per game was about 1,400 fans. If I have it right. Based on the difference where they were, they're almost at 27, 2.7 million in 2023. And then 2.5 million last year.

[00:12:45] It's about 1,400 fans a night, I think, give or take. But this is larger than that. So I just something to keep an eye on. We talked about it during the off season. Are people going to still show up to the parking droves? And I'll say on Saturday, credit to the fans, man, they had a great giveaway. The Hello Kitty, what did they give away? Hello Kitty something? Bucket hats. I forget what it was. Bucket hats. There we go. People and people loved it. And they got a lot of people to the ballpark. And I drove past $100 parking on Saturday. $100.

[00:13:14] And people still showed up. So shout out to all you guys who showed up on Saturday. But all those other days, Lyle, all those other days, I mean, it is down. You can see it. Friday was a giveaway day, too. It was the Randy hoodie. I know. And tonight was a bobblehead night on Monday. Just something to watch. Again, it's only five games, but just something to watch. That's all we'll say. Interesting. But that's, I would say, that summarizes my takeaways.

[00:13:41] You'll hear a lot of other ones in the interview with Divish that we essentially cover everything else. Yeah, we do. Before that, let's take a quick pause. We're going to talk to you guys about our friends over at Pagotch's Pub 85. Over in Kirkland, you guys want to go watch some games with your friends? You want to watch the Final Four this weekend and pick a spot? Head over there. There's great food. There's pool. There's darts. It's a fun place to hang out with all your friends. There's 20 TVs in that place. And if you go during happy hour, well, drinks are three and four bucks. Those are awesome deals, you guys. Two to six p.m. Monday through Friday. Those are the happy hours.

[00:14:11] Three and four dollar drinks throughout the afternoon. So if you want to get in on that and plan a time with your friends, head over to Pagotch's Pub 85 over in Kirkland. This is good timing to have Davis on. It's good to sort of hear from him before the season starts and gets his perspective. Because I don't think anybody on the Mariners beat is more tied in and willing to speak on their ties to the Mariners and what they're seeing. And also just understanding the game of baseball.

[00:14:36] I want you to pay attention when we're talking to Ryan about their offensive philosophy. That is very different. He offers some perspective on it, on how they operate. When you see the Mariners turn around and bunt, which we've seen this year, by the way. Another takeaway, quickly. Bunting. Davis notes how that process comes to be and how they make that decision on that. And, you know, it's kind of surprising to hear it. But, you know, you'll have to tune in to find out. There's a reason Davis is a very popular podcast guest.

[00:15:06] Because he is great. You know who he is and how he is at this point. Obviously, he's funny. Obviously, he's got his persona. But one of the smartest beat writers out there. Tied in. Knows the game. Picks up on trends. Very informational. You guys are going to learn a lot, as always, from when you listen to this. From when you listen to Davis talk, including in this interview. We won't keep you guys any longer. Let's get you to the interview with Ryan Davis. All right.

[00:15:35] We got Ryan Davis on with us. Seattle Times Mariners beat writer. Recurring guest. Ryan, thanks for taking some time to join us. I will say, I do enjoy the ambience. I do hear the seagulls in the background. Yeah. I'm in the... Well, I snuck into one of the other rooms up here in the press box. Because Daniel Kramer and Kate Pruiser and some of those guys are still working in there. So I didn't want to annoy them with my meanderings about whatever it is you're going to ask.

[00:16:05] But yeah, you can hear the trains and the seagulls. I mean, they're just rats with wings, aren't they? And they're everywhere. And they never leave. The worst part is when there's a hundred seagulls circling the ballpark at like 5 o'clock before a 7 o'clock game. That is the worst. Yeah, Ryan, you should have seen Lyle yesterday. We're walking up the stands. After we're done stalking players and fans, by the way. And we're walking back to the concourse. Lyle looks up. There's like a hundred seagulls above him. And then he goes. Boom. Boom.

[00:16:36] And starts sprinting up the stairs. Well, you think they're going to take a dump on you, Lyle? Or are they just coming for your head? I think it was a little bit of both. I think it got a couple other people on this weekend. So I was like, yeah, that ain't happening to me. I'm booking it and getting out of here. Yeah, I mean, it's... Well, it's crazy now because the roof is closed here. So they're all just kind of... They're not obviously stuck in here, but they're all sitting in the stands. And like, you know, it's like people pick up your crap and take it out the door with you instead of just throwing them. We wouldn't have this problem. Yeah.

[00:17:05] I wanted to start off, Ryan, by lobbing you a statement. You tell us whether or not it's true or false. Okay. So there are some good things about this Cal Raleigh extension, I think, for a lot of Mariners fans that they locked him up at a reasonable price. It works for the team. It works for the player. And you keep a very valuable piece of your roster. But I want to look at this in a different perspective as well, despite all of that. It means I think we get to see more of you, right? Yeah.

[00:17:31] I said that I would quit if they got rid of him or if he left. I said I would quit. I wouldn't cover the team anymore. I didn't say I'd stay if they kept him. But it was the ultimatum or the caveat was like, if he's gone, I'm gone. And now that they're keeping him, I can still leave. But I'm more apt to stay longer, perhaps, if he's around. Because you guys have dealt with him.

[00:18:01] He's a pro. He's honest. And he makes my job easier. Because he is able to always be available to talk. He's willing to answer hard questions and articulate things. And, yeah. So, and I just like him because I like watching good catching. So, I guess, yeah. I don't have reasons to quit eventually. But I'm not quitting because Cal's leaving. I call that a win. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:30] I mean, if I win the lottery tomorrow, let's peace out. You know? Yeah. Missoula and Maui, I'm there. But otherwise, no. I kind of have to stick around and see. I'd like to see him get to the playoffs again at some point and have some success. But, you know, if I find the right opportunity, I'm not staying. If he had gotten traded, would you have just quote tweeted the pass and tweet or Rosenthal tweet or whatever with the Marshawn cleats? And that's just your way of being like, I'm done.

[00:18:58] I don't know if I do the Marshawn cleats because he's done that. I always said that, like, the day I quit, it'll be like a gif of a bomb hitting a bridge because I plan to burn all my bridges on the way out too. But I don't even know then. I'll have to see what I'm going to do when I. But, yeah, I would have been like, yeah, I'm done for a while. I mean, I just couldn't have. Because, you know, you think about it. I've been doing this since 2006.

[00:19:26] And really at the time since 2014, like, the number of players that have moved on from here is pretty high, especially ones that I liked. You know, Paxton Zanino, Nelly Cruz, Seeger left. You know, Hanager is gone now. I mean, all it is, it just makes me old. You know, but, like, Cal is really easy to deal with. Like, all these guys are really easy to deal with, honestly.

[00:19:51] I've said this often, but, like, this group of guys, especially the core group of guys that the Mariners have brought in, mostly from their organization, are the best dudes I've ever dealt with. You know, this team is easy to deal with in that regard. Like, they're not assholes or jerks. They all put in the work. You know, they're respectable. They're respectful. And I think that makes the job a lot easier when you're like that. I mean, and even, like, they have pretty good senses of humor.

[00:20:19] It's like when Lyle pursued George Kirby for, you know, two years and George kept saying no and no. And then when he finally did, I was like, George, no! Like, I loved it. It was like a streak. It was like, you know, Teddy Roosevelt never winning the president's race. You know, and then all of a sudden George was like, I've been saying no to him for two years. I guess I better just do it. You know, like, I'm like, no, that's an impressive streak. Like, do you think the Mariners had a, I'd say, a change of mind of extending Cal?

[00:20:48] Do you think they always wanted to? I would say from at least the financial perspective. Because it seemed like at least from what Cal heard and what you talked about, when you talked to Cal, I think a week before the extension, he had not been approached with an offer yet. Even if the negotiations had been going on for a little bit. Was there, I'd say prior to this, when the Mariners were in a little bit more financial uncertainty, some hesitancy from them? Or do you feel like they wanted to do this the whole time? I think they, in the back of their minds, they always wanted it.

[00:21:16] But I don't know that they ever thought it would be a true reality. Largely because of who represented him for a while. I mean, I think with Scott Boris, there is, as you know, people have said, there's kind of one play in the playbook. And it's not usually extensions. And I think, you know, I think that made maybe the Mariners, I wouldn't say hesitant, but that made it a little bit more difficult. Then Cal leaves. Boris Corp goes to Excel.

[00:21:42] But his guy, Brent Knife, who was with him at Boris, who went to Excel, he kind of followed him over there. I think that was Brent, or Brett was probably, Brett, was probably a little bit more open to that. You know, and I think Excel probably was. And, you know, Brett, who had been around Cal a long time, understood kind of what Cal wanted in that regard. Like, you know, these major agencies, they have like kind of the figurehead. You know, with Excel, it's Casey Close.

[00:22:12] But each player, there's a ton of agents working under them that work directly with players. And Brett had been with Cal since college. And, you know, they had a good relationship. So I think he had an understanding of what Cal really wanted. And they went to the Mariners with that. From what it sounds like, it's like during the arbitration negotiations for salary, you know, the subject came up.

[00:22:36] And, you know, Cal's agent and the Mariners kind of said, well, yeah, let's maybe like discuss this further. And then it kind of progressed. But, you know, when I talked to Cal, I just said, hey, have you had a serious offer? And in Cal's mind, I don't think he had because I don't think like the parameters of the whole contract were completely laid out yet to where he had like the offer. Like, okay, here's the offer. Let's get this done.

[00:23:00] Like, I think he, with his agent, they kind of established kind of what they were looking for, kind of a salary or market price range. And then, you know, he let his agent handle it from there. And like for Cal, like he had, when he talked about it, he was like, I don't want to focus on that. Here's what I want. He knows, you know, my agent knows what I want. This is kind of what I'm looking for. And if they can make it work, great. If they can't, then, you know, we'll just keep playing. And I just want to focus on baseball. So, yeah, I think it was, I think there's always there.

[00:23:30] It's like with Logan Gilbert. Yeah, they want to make an offer. They want to get something done with Logan Gilbert. But opportunity has to be there. And you're right, too. I think some level of certainty with their finances is important. I'm, you know, well, I don't think it's like money. Like they're going to get a huge mint of money off it. Getting the streaming, the direct-to-consumer streaming product put together and having it in place for this season is important.

[00:23:58] Just because you have something baseline to go from for next year. You know, they had lost so much viewership and canceled subscriptions to, especially on Xfinity, that, like, you know, there just wasn't that much viewership en route. And, you know, at the bottom line, they want fans to be able to watch. So getting that taken care of. And then also, you know, they'll be able to advertise on it. And they'll be able to do other stuff so that, you know, you have to have that in place.

[00:24:22] And you had to get an agreement with these cable rights companies or with their cable rights deals to have this go into place. And then once you have that, then you can start adjusting. But I think, you know, they'd love to extend Logan and George and all those guys. It's just a matter of whether or not it's feasible and whether or not the player wants it as well. Do you feel like the likely incoming lockout is incentivizing any of these guys to start thinking about extensions ahead of time now?

[00:24:51] I would think it should. I mean, if you're an agent, you should definitely think about it because you don't know what the salary landscape is going to be in the coming years. You don't know. And these guys would all be grandfathered in if they were to change, like, the structure of service time or anything like that. But you don't really know how teams are going to react to this and what happens if the lockout lasts for a year, you know, and then all of a sudden these teams aren't making as much money and all this other stuff.

[00:25:18] I do think, yeah, there is some there should be some level of motivation to get it locked up. And I think like with Cal, I don't think that was the motivation. But like money wasn't the motivation either. You look at it. He's not the highest pay catcher. He didn't break the bank. Like even the structure of it, a $1 million salary this year plus the $10 million signing bonus. The signing bonus doesn't work against the luxury tax.

[00:25:44] Not that they beat up into it, but like they kind of the way the money is paid out over that, it's different. So then all of a sudden that budget that you have that you kind of not taking a few chunks out with Solano and the signing of Polanco, now you have a little bit more money, about another $4 million you add to that budget, a little more wiggle room. That helps. And I think the way it sets up, he's not making a ton of money this year, next year, and the year after that.

[00:26:12] Not like the it loads up later at the end. That's, you know, think about what the arbitration is with Logan, George, and Bryce in these next three years. That helps the Mariners. You know, he's not taking it all at a 17 or 17 million per year. He's not doing it all that way. It's smarter that way, and it works out, and it helps the club out in a lot of ways. What do you feel like Logan's motivation for a new deal would be, whether it be with the Mariners or not? Well, stability.

[00:26:43] Like, it's kind of like what Cal said. He likes who's here. He likes what, you know, in the day-to-day routine of his life, which is very structured or whatever. He trusts the trainers. He trusts the medical staff. Obviously, he loves Dan Wilson. They've been together since he was drafted. You know, he likes the pitching. He knows, you know, it's not an unknown. You know, sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don't. And I think that's with Logan. You know, you have Trent. Trent Blank and Pete Woodworth here.

[00:27:12] You have Cal here. And when we talked, when Adam and I talked to Cal the other day, or to Logan the other day about kind of the extension, Adam wrote a story on it. But he did say that, like, having Cal here is a factor. You know, Cal makes him good, too. And, you know, it's a guy that he's close to. So, I mean, like, the thing with Logan is, can he wait the two more years after this? And all of a sudden be like, ooh, I get Max Fried money now? I mean, look at what Max Fried got.

[00:27:42] You know? Nathan Evaldi got three years at $75 million. And, you know, what is Logan going to get on the open market? So, does he want to wait it out? Or can the Mariners put something together similar to Logan Webb or maybe higher on the higher end Jose Barrios and get something signed and extended and have him and Cal there to build around for the years to come? Because, like, that's the one thing from a financial standpoint if you're the Mariners, too.

[00:28:12] Pitching is only going to get more expensive. Now, they don't necessarily believe they have to go out and spend for some. But if they ever got to a point that they had to, look, I mean, look at they spent on Castillo, what they gave to Robbie Ray. Pitching isn't getting cheaper as we go. It's only getting more expensive. Would they have to give Logan, if he's going to sign an extension, you think, would it be a five-year deal? Or would they have to go, you know, into what they deem as an uncomfortable zone and go, like, seven or eight years and potentially over $200 million?

[00:28:39] I think they have to probably go five or six and then put a vesting option in that's attainable or whatever. That's how you kind of get to that point. Obviously, if you do a player option, they're always going to want it. You know, that's basically going to be money that you spend. But if you do a vesting option for a seventh year maybe, similar to Cal's, then I think that's pretty fair. You know, I think Logan Webb was five years, $90 million.

[00:29:10] Barrios was seven, $140 something. If, you know, maybe if they got creative with how the money is distributed, I think that's probably better, too. You know, it's a different thing. It's like we always thought that Logan wanted to be closer to Florida because that's where he spends his time. But, you know, Cal's from North Carolina. He bought a house in Arizona. He's, you know, now he can afford to buy a house here, maybe, with $100 million. I don't know.

[00:29:37] And then, you know, maybe that's something that Logan has thought about, too. You know, does he still associate home as Florida? Like, Cal, I don't think necessarily, well, North Carolina is his home. That's not where he, like, his home state or where he's from. That doesn't necessarily mean where home is now. You know, he lives in Arizona and he's here. And, you know, that's, I think that's kind of where he's at right now in his life. And maybe Logan's getting that point, too.

[00:30:04] All right, moving on to some current games now that the season's gotten underway and everything. There's some specific guys and points we want to hit on with you. But I'll just start with this. Through four games, your biggest takeaway through one series is what?

[00:30:17] I mean, what we've seen is really so far not that different than what we saw from last year.

[00:30:36] But what could be, like, the effort or the kind of possibility of how they could play is or how they want to play is also apparent. Like, you know, the first night they only struck out seven times. And for whatever reason, they don't hit lefty changeups. So Springs cut them up and Sears is tough. So you can kind of see, you know, where they want to be as an offense. You know, I think they're still better.

[00:31:02] I thought even with the strikeouts the other night, I thought the bats were still a little bit better from a lot of the key guys, more so than maybe some of the other peripheral guys. That's probably my biggest takeaway. And I think also that they're still in the process, and logically so, four games in, of trying to figure out how they want to play in terms of who they want to play. You know, with platoons and defense and how you're using guys.

[00:31:29] I mean, you have a starting third baseman who doesn't really play third and who's coming off knee surgery and is still, you can tell, largely uncomfortable at the position. You have two left-handed first basemen that have changed the math on that. You know, you have a utility guy you want to move around, and how are you going to use him? And then you have three outfielders that would play every single day if you let them, but it could be to their detriment if you do that.

[00:31:56] So I think that's the biggest thing is how are they going to, and also in the bullpen, and who's going in leverage situations and who isn't to get to Andres Munoz with Matt Brash still not ready and Troy Taylor still working his way back. How are they going to work the 6th, 7th, and 8th, which was a problem last year too. So, yeah, I think a lot of it is still the same as last year, the potential problems. The upside seems a little different and a little better.

[00:32:26] And then, you know, the results have been a lot like last year too. But I was telling somebody, people always hate when they sit there and say it's early, you know, because it's like, then they say, well, they've missed the playoffs by one game. It's not early. To me, when you say things like it's early, it's not so much that the actual win or loss that you're talking about, but more of like how you got to the win or loss and how you got to that result and whether that's correctable or not.

[00:32:55] Is it a simple function of the prey, you know, that you don't have the right players, you don't have enough talent, or is it a function of, well, these guys, certain aspects of this will improve logically or just by the nature of baseball, that it won't be this bad and, you know, that kind of thing. So I think four games in, we think we know a lot about this team, but do we really? I mean, like, yeah, it's a lot of the same pieces, but, you know, it just,

[00:33:22] it feels like they have a better idea of who they want to be and have a better chance of getting there. But again, that can be sidetracked by injuries or a change in thinking or any of that kind of stuff. And I think the messaging is definitely different. I thought they made it pretty clear in spring training what the messaging was. And I think at least in certain situations, that messaging did come across. And I want to come back to, I want to come to something that you said on Extra Innings, the podcast you and Jude put out before opening day,

[00:33:50] when you guys were talking about how they approach their small ball, or whether it be bunting or whether it be stealing. Could you go into a little bit of how they decide whether or not they're bunting and whether or not they're stealing? Because the way I understood it on your pod was that it is up to the players at the plate to make those decisions, and the dugout just greenlights whether or not they're allowed to do it or not. Yeah, well, with stealing especially.

[00:34:16] So stealing, you know, players will have, you know, it's really simple a lot of times. It's green, yellow, red. Rowdy Tellez is red when he's on base. He's not stealing. But even then, like, they have a sign that will just say, hey, we're red. You know, because like Ryan Bliss, Robles, Dylan Moore, Julio, they all have green. They just go into a game with green more often than not. But a certain situation may dictate yellow or red.

[00:34:45] You know, sometimes it's like with Julio up and you don't want to steal second knowing that they might try and walk him or something like that. They may go red for a while. But like for the most part, when they do go, they don't call it from the dugout unless it's a it's like a steal that they want. Like with a runner on first, less than two outs. You don't want to get a double player. Whether I want outrunner on first, you might start a guy on a three to count or two to count or something like that or three to count.

[00:35:13] So you don't hit into the inning, any double play. They may call that. But for most of the times, like when these guys decide to go, it's their read because they're seeing it like they see they've been watching it. They see how they know how they feel. Are they getting it timed up? Are they not? Because on that point, you want for the best aspect of success. Bunting is similar in the sense that I don't they don't call a ton of sack bunts. Like you'll see it late. Runner on second. Nobody out. They may bunt somebody over. Runners first and second.

[00:35:43] Get nobody out. They may bunt a guy over if it's really late in the game and it's a close game. But like obviously Polanco, that wasn't called. You saw the look on Dan Wilson's face when Robles bunts. A lot of times he's doing it on his own. And so, you know, that's the difference. I think a lot of people believe that everything is called from the bench or the dugout. It's not like in high school or even in college. These guys have the freedom. They have the trust.

[00:36:09] And they do enough scouting and do enough meetings and reports leading into a game. They know when the optimal times to go and when they aren't. So they don't need to be told. They don't need to be given that signal. More often than or not, they're given the signal not to go than, you know, told to go. When Scott was manager, was that approval system the same in terms of like it's up to them? I mean, like honestly, they don't run the game that much differently than Scott if you think about it.

[00:36:38] I mean, like what's really that different? They went, you know, kind of they pinch hit. They use the bench some a little bit more in the one game and move some guys around. You know, like even the one difference, I guess, with the bullpen usage is what Scott went to Munoz in the eighth today. Again, or in the eighth when instead of Trent Thornton. I don't know. I mean, you really right now, I think Dan's trying to feel out who these guys can handle and what they can handle, what they can anyways. But they don't run it that differently.

[00:37:08] They talk about dominate the zone still. Like they talk about all when the 0-1-1 counts. That was prevalent when Scott was here. You know, I think sometimes just the difference is largely personality wise. You know, Scott could get kind of tense. And I felt like last year early on in the season and then when they really started scuffling, like the tenseness around Scott rubbed off on the players a little bit at times.

[00:37:33] I mean, but, you know, nobody was happy for most of the last season when everything started to go wrong. So, no, to me, it's very similar to what Scott does. They do almost everything the same other than like the biggest difference is the hitting standpoint, you know, and how they approach it, what their messaging is, what they believe is successful and what isn't in a lot of ways. And I mean, really, that's still an approach that most of these guys have heard growing up in life. So, it wasn't like drastic.

[00:38:03] But it's just focus more on that. And it wasn't like Scott wanted, you know, all or nothing swings. It's just how the messaging came across to get to that point was different. What do you feel like the biggest differences are in terms of what Julio was focused on at the plate entering this year as opposed to what he was focused on entering last year?

[00:38:24] Yeah, I think last year he did some stuff to his stance and swing, kind of trying to control his legs and how much, like, you know how he kind of would sink down. They didn't, you know, there was some thought that his head was moving too much and it put him in a bad position that he was going down and back instead of and couldn't get forward, you know, and it kind of messed with his timing. So, he spent a lot of that last offseason going into 24, like, reducing that movement with his legs.

[00:38:53] But it just didn't work right, you know, and then he was kind of out of sorts and messed with his timing. Then he kind of went back to that a little bit. He didn't really mesh well with Brant Brown and the messaging and how they wanted to do it. And I do think, you know, he's still a kid and he's still impressionable. And I think he sort of lost his identity as a hitter in a sense that, like, just hit it hard. Focus on hitting it hard. Stay up the middle.

[00:39:22] Like, coming up and really, he loved to hit the ball to right center and drive it because it is a special gift to hit a ball to right field as hard as he does. And then I think last year, and the numbers played out a lot of ways, the numbers said if he hits the ball in the air to the left side of the field, it's more successful. But when he, like, forcing yourself to hit to that side of the field and becoming a pull-heavy hitter just isn't who he was. And he didn't understand that.

[00:39:51] He just tried to do a lot of different things at once. And I think when Edgar came in and just tried to simplify it and say, look, we're just going to this. Like, just focus on hitting it as hard as you can up the middle. And then if you do that, especially on fastballs, then you'll pull the homer. You can pull a breaking ball. You can pull, you can still pull a fastball, but you want to have your mindset being we're going to hit the ball hard up the middle on fastballs, especially fastballs on the outer half. You know, and they changed up some swing stuff with him, got his hands back a little bit more.

[00:40:21] They wanted him to have some rhythm. They felt like he wasn't athletic at the plate. And we saw that last year in terms of falling over sometimes, you know, kind of awkward, off-balance swings. They want him to be more athletic, be in a better spot to hit with. Very simple and then, you know, a much more simple approach of just hit the ball hard. We don't care about the direction. You know, if you do it right, the direction will take care of itself.

[00:40:47] And I think that's been the biggest difference this year more than anything is it's a little physical and it's a lot mental. And I think he's very also like, you know, because everybody has a stake in his results from the Mariners staff, the his people. You know, he's he doesn't lack for advertising dollars and stuff like that. But, you know, so they all want different things and that's all think they have the key to success.

[00:41:12] I think Julio just kind of figured out in those last six weeks about what he needs to do to be successful. And he's really not going to deviate from that who he trusts that keep him successful at the plate. And I think that's the biggest thing, you know, young kid, you got to trust. And also sometimes you need to hit rock bottom a little bit when you're that good and that talented because you've never been there before. Before you kind of look around and say, OK, this isn't working. I've got to change something.

[00:41:40] And, you know, thankfully for him, I think Edgar was around to help kind of, you know, through that process and kind of just tell him like simple is better. Don't overthink it. Don't over try and do it. Don't get caught up in the result of where it's going or whatever. Just hit it hard. Have an approach to hit it hard. And that's really what he's bought into. Are there less voices trying to give him hitting advice or advice at all this year as opposed to last?

[00:42:11] Maybe. I mean, you can have all the voices in the world. It's just understanding who you need to tune in and who you need to tune out. You can give the cursor. Yeah, I hear what you're saying. You know, you don't have to do it. I mean, like, look, I write the way I want to write it. Some people don't like it. And I've had editors that want to change it. I was like, yeah, I'll work on that. But no, I'm going to write it the way I want to write it. And I think with hitting, it's the same thing. Once you establish what you believe makes you successful and you have the verified results and all this other stuff,

[00:42:41] then you're going to go to the people that you believe help you. And I mean, for Julio, I think at some points his success hasn't always been consistent. It's been fleeting at times. You know, it's been you look at 23. It was really white hot after the all-star break. And then, you know, wasn't great of that. Last year, obviously, was bad for five months.

[00:43:05] I think part of understanding, like, what your identity is as a hitter is understanding who are the people that can help you maintain that or help you kind of have success with it. And I think that's what he's really understanding. How long is this current Mariners infield setup going to last? What do you mean? Like how they're playing? Or who's the... Using the four, let's say roughly the four or five they put out there this entire weekend.

[00:43:34] Polanco at third. Bliss and Dillon more at second base or first base, depending on what it is. Rowdy Tellez at first base. JP at shortstop. As you mentioned, they're trying to figure some things out. And I think the infield is what's circled the most. In terms of how do you feel like it shakes out? Or are they going to, you know, have to swap some pieces out on this infield to make it better defensively? Or are they just, you know, fine with it? Well, I don't think they're fine with how they play defensively.

[00:44:02] I know a lot of people were, like, kind of going off about the Polanco throw that he bounced, you know, twice to Dillon more. He actually played that and threw that sort of the way they wanted to. Perry Hill teaches that if you retreat on a ball or a ball pulls you hard away from first base and your momentum to get off the, you know, and you need to throw to first to miss low, do the long hop. Obviously, his bounce pass was a little two-hopper.

[00:44:29] But, like, that wasn't the play I think people have issues with. Because, you know, if he tries to throw that all the way, more often than not, he's going to throw it high to the arm side. The guy's going to come off the bag. You put your first baseman at risk. And it could end up in the stands. Then it's two bases. If you throw it low, either the guy can pick it or come off the base and just knock it down. And you eliminate the extra 90 feet. And you'll hear Perry Hill screaming that, give him a chance, give him a chance.

[00:44:58] That's why they throw low. JP does it. He's even seen the second baseman do it. And they've come to realize that bouncing it on a low throw on a long hop is more effective than trying to carry it all the way to first base with the risk of, like, overthrowing or, you know, pulling your first baseman into the baseline. Like, with Polanco, it's just, it's the routine ones that you've got to worry about. The tentative ones.

[00:45:22] Or the mistake of the other night where on the soft blooper in the middle of the infield, he didn't pick up the ball. He, like, he overran the ball and left it. They're able to score. Like, that, those are the things that kind of are killer. Josh Rojas wasn't great last year at third base in spring and even early in the season. He got better with time. The more he played, the more he did the work, he got better. Polanco wasn't able to do all the work this spring, like, every day.

[00:45:51] He went every other day. They couldn't do certain things because the knee was still, like, technically in recovery mode. So, he wasn't, maybe got the, he didn't get the reps that ideally you would have, you know, transitioning to a new position. So, I think they want to continue to work him there because they believe he'll get better with Perry's help. You know, and then, like, I thought Ryan Bliss played pretty well defensively at second base. You know, he makes the athletic plays. He makes the tough plays.

[00:46:19] It's the routine ones he's got to continue to make. I mean, like, that's kind of what they're going to do. I mean, I don't know that if you look at, I think, and their belief is that Dylan Moore is an everyday guy, that he has more valuable. More value being able to play every day but at different positions and different roles, whether it's a half a game or a full game, pinch hitting, pinch running, whatever. I think that, I think they're about, they think, I think they believe his value is there. You know, similar to Masturbioni.

[00:46:49] So, I didn't, you know, I looked at the infield defense. I didn't think it was going to be great. They made some mistakes. But I didn't think it was as glaring as some people wanted or thought it was. I guess it stands out more because when you don't hit, then you make mistakes in the field. They become more magnified.

[00:47:09] To me, you know, the lack of traffic in game two and, you know, some of the issues we saw even in game four, those are bigger issues than the defense. I think defense can improve throughout the season. I don't know that Polanco will ever be great. But if you can get him to be something better than Luis Urias at third, I mean, he is hitting. And that's the one thing. No final. And we could see him DH.

[00:47:35] But, like, today, they kept him out of the game for a whole day for a reason. Because it's, you know, three days in a row. He's running. He's moving. They want to give the knee a rest. Part of the way you make him better defensively is making sure that his legs are healthy so he can have that capability of being better defensively. I guess my big question within this question is, at what point do you feel like in the season we could see Ben Williamson?

[00:48:01] And the reason I ask about it is because this isn't Colt Emerson where the Mariners are going to make sure his bat is as ready as can possibly be whenever the day comes that he debuts. Or with Williamson, he's not that type of prospect. He's known for his great defense. And I just wonder, from the Mariners' perspective, if they think to themselves, okay, if he is not totally overmatched at the plate in AAA, it's worth it to bring him up, have his defense at third base, and then you can move Polanco to DH. Well, yeah, and we probably need a requisite amount of games in AAA to make that determination.

[00:48:32] Ben Williamson's played in less than 150 minor league games in his career because he had the injuries and such. So, you know, putting him out here would be pretty unfair. And the one thing is, too, is, yeah, you put him out here for his defense, but he still wants to contribute. How does that affect him if he's not contributing at the plate, if he's overwhelmed every time he steps to the plate but he's going out there to play defense? You're looking around going, you know, what am I doing here if I can't hit?

[00:48:59] So I think it's the measure of development plus how much it helps you. Like, yes, his defense is plus, but does it help you win that much if the bat is zero and then the obvious Twitter response will be, well, all of them are zeros? Yes and no. Like, you know, is there a chance? Are you putting the kid in a bad position? Are you putting the kid in a position to fail?

[00:49:29] Because if you are, then all that's going to do is have, you know, bad effects on him down the road. Look at Mike Zanino. They put him in a position to fail and he didn't really recover. He was always going to be a swing and miss. They didn't do him any favors. And why did they bring him up? Because he was plus defensively because he was an elite defensive catcher and he wasn't ready and then all of a sudden had no approach and really struggled to find it. Now, Williamson is older and, like, his swing is very simple, such.

[00:49:58] But, I mean, again, they're not. Is the difference, like, Ben Williamson's glove going to be the difference in how many wins versus how much of a mitigating factor would be if he's not ready to hit offensively? You have to at least see what he can do in AAA before you make that. Like, everybody just sits there and says, well, I'll let him hit 150 up here if we get that sort of defense. Well, that's fine if other people are hitting, but not everyone else is hitting.

[00:50:28] Yeah. So, and that's where they're at. And, I mean, like, it's also the quality. If it's 150 but it's a strikeout every other at bat, also not good. I just think, like, you don't do that to the prospect. And if you're at that point where you're that desperate, then go find a quad A guy that's veteran. I mean, you can go trade for – hell, you can go trade for Josh Rojas again if you need to. Or Jose Iglesias, one of these teams.

[00:50:53] I mean, like, a month into the season, if this isn't working, there are already going to be teams that are toast a month into the season, maybe looking to move the fringe rosters of their guys. So maybe you do it that way. But, like, yeah, it's not been pretty. And if the defense is that bad, then you put Polanco out there for the first five innings. See if you get something from his bat. If he's hitting, okay, maybe move him to second or whatever, where he's not great there either. And then you put in Dylan Moore somewhere.

[00:51:21] Put in Dylan Moore for your late inning defensive replacement if you want to. You know, you can put Polanco as the DH. You know, to me, like, it's weirder that – and we – granted, they've had two lefties. But, like, Luke Craley was one of your better players last year. How do you find ways to make sure he plays? You know, I think Rowdy Tellez is a better defensive first baseman than Luke in a lot of ways has better hands. But, like, are you going to limit Luke by being DH?

[00:51:49] Like, if you have – because, like, let's say something happens to an outfielder. You can't pull Luke from the DH. You lose the DH spot, right? If you have to move him in the field. So that's how – the roster dynamic isn't set up ideal. Like, honestly, if – you know, people think it's weird. But, like, if Hanager was healthy and would have made the team instead of Rowdy, like, there are ways you look at how you're going to play him. You know what I mean? Like, you have your platoon at first base, and then Demo is your emergency first baseman.

[00:52:19] And you have the other two guys. And then Mitch is your DH or whatever, or you just don't play him. Like, with Rowdy, you have him. He's better defensively than Luke, but they're both left-handed. And you want to make sure you keep Luke's bat in the lineup. But you'd rather have Rowdy at first, but you don't want to put Luke in the outfield. It's like – you put yourself – you paint yourself into a bit of a corner with your roster construction that way. But, I mean, who knows if it's permanent. Like, you really don't know how this is going to go. And, like, guys get hurt.

[00:52:47] And the one thing, like, we were talking about with the middle infielders, you know, if Bliss were to struggle, Rivas, he's got options. You can bring Rivas up. Similar with Master Bione. You can do ways to kind of work the peripheral of your roster with some of those guys. But it's a weird dynamic having essentially two left-handed first basemen, and then your other platoon first baseman is a 5'7 third baseman that's moved over there to play. Yeah. Okay, so just so I can clarify for people listening,

[00:53:17] the Williams in question was more along the lines of could you see him in the end of May versus in September. But, like, the Zanino thing is a good point where you rush a guy up to the big leagues just so you can try to get his defense back there because you feel like he's your best option, quote-unquote. So, yeah, he can mess with somebody. Well, yeah, and then the thing is, too, is, like, catcher defense is a little more valuable than third base defense in a lot of ways. I mean, like, third base is important. You know, I mean, logically, the thing is they could have Suarez.

[00:53:44] Although everybody says they should have Suarez, would the Mariners have – I guess if he would have had the numbers he had last year, then the Mariners probably exercised the club option because it was a heavy club option. A lot of people didn't know if the Diamondbacks were going to do it. But, yeah, I mean, there were ways to do that. I just think, like, look, you have enough established guys. If the Polanco defense is that bad, you can pivot to some version of Dylan Moore and whoever.

[00:54:13] I mean, Rivas is pretty good defensively. He's the best – I think he's the best defensive infielder on the 40-man roster. You can make that move. And then there are going to be, you know, guys that you could probably go out and get even in a deal for cash if you really needed to fill it in. I mean, I wouldn't – the only way I would think we would see Williamson earlier than that is if there was a significant injury where somebody was out for a while. Maybe you would give him a shot first to see if he could do that.

[00:54:40] I mean, his swing is very simple, and he's not, like, a huge strikeout guy. He's not a lot of power. At this point, you're not begging for it. So that's really the only way I see it. I don't know the poor performance. Then again, though, like, they called Jared Kalen the cup after, like, six games. And I thought – I was like, what? So you never know. I mean, like, we don't know all that goes into it, but I do know that, like, they're cognizant of how difficult it would be for a kid that barely has played, you know,

[00:55:08] double A last year and then is starting out at triple A this season to jump right to the big leagues. You know, we even saw errors from Ben during spring, you know, where he made some mistakes. It's not like – it's not Brooks Robinson. You know, he's a really outstanding defensive player. But, you know, we see the highlights on Twitter. Do we see the mistakes? That's another thing you have to kind of look into. Right. I got one last thing for you, Ryan, because I know we talked about it this offseason.

[00:55:38] And the last time we had you on, you thought that this would be something the team could do and that the Mariners could look at the ballpark this offseason and potentially change something. Do we know if they modified anything with the park? I mean, I'm looking out at it now. I don't think so. Yeah, that was our takeaway, too, is nothing looked that different. Unless – I mean, they might have painted the – it doesn't look like they painted the batter's eye any differently either.

[00:56:07] So structurally, they can't do a whole lot. Like, where that batter's eye is – I mean, it's cement beyond it, and they've got a bunch of stuff on top of it, so they can't just, like, move it in. They'd have to build a new batter's eye right behind the wall at an angle. But that's, like, also where they – how they get all their stuff in for the ground screw and everything else and where they grow sod for the field. Like, I don't know what they could do to make that. I mean, like, honestly, if they really wanted to adjust how the park plays –

[00:56:35] and some people don't believe this, but, like, you close the roof, mentally the players like it more when it's closed on a day – even, like, today where the wind was blowing so much. Yeah, that would be the one thing is if you close the roof. It would have made me feel a little more comfortable in the press box. It's always about me, you know. No, I don't – I haven't seen anything else, though. I'm looking out at it. I don't – I just see a lot of seagulls. There. And I was going to say the last thing for me, Ryan,

[00:57:06] because we haven't talked about the rotation, I think, at all. So if you're going to – if you look at this rotation and you think, who's going to actually take the biggest step forward this year, as good as all these guys are, who would it be? Hmm. Well, I would have said Kirby, but he's not here right now. I actually think it might be Wu because of what we saw at the last 15 –

[00:57:35] or the last 10 starts last year. I think it could be Wu. It just – he has a better understanding of what he needs to do to be successful now. You know, and he has the ability to be so efficient at times with those fastballs. Lots of early, you know, early strikes. Lots of weak contact. Yeah, I think he could do it. I mean, hell, if he pitched against the A's every day, you know, he'd never lose, which is crazy because the A's are actually pretty good.

[00:58:01] I think that's one thing people don't realize, like, about this four-game series to start off. This isn't the old A's. Like, their first six guys are really good, and they have about three starters that are pretty good. They have the best – one of the best closers in baseball. They just have, like, to get to the closers is a little suspect. But, yeah, I'd probably Wu, I guess, would be the one guy that could take a step forward. I mean, like, where does Logan really go?

[00:58:30] Get to 225 innings or, you know, like, he was really good last year. Kirby, though, if he comes back in a month, I mean, that's one thing, too, is, like, he could be a little fresher than these other guys by coming back in a month or whatever comes back first in May. I mean, that's pretty big if you can get him back. And I think that's – but I'll go with Wu. All right. Ryan, appreciate it as always. You do fantastic work there.

[00:58:58] And I know all of our listeners appreciate whenever you get a chance to hop on here with us. Thank you. Not all. Some. Oh, no, all of them. They all appreciate you. They just have different ways of expressing it. Okay. It's like when I make fun of Lyle, that's my way of expressing that I like him, right? Right. Exactly that. Exactly. I mean, I didn't even make fun of you today on this podcast. Have I made fun of you yet? No, it's been a very business-like interview. I'm going to be honest. Well, you said the Kirby thing at the start. You got your shot in where you could get it in.

[00:59:27] Well, yeah, but that was just – I mean, it was funny that – just because every day you would try and get him and every day, you know, you were like – it was like the little puppy in the cartoons where the big bulldog, nah, you know, Spike, we can go bull. Nah. I mean, and then one day you finally got him. I mean, George is actually pretty entertaining when you talk to him. Sure. So you've got to – Ryan, now you've got to think of one for when we eventually get Julio again. Oh, yeah. Good luck with that. Let me know if that happens. Yeah. Oh, well, you'll know.

[00:59:57] Yeah, I mean – no, I won't make fun of Lyle's clothing or anything like that, you know. Made it through the whole interview. Made it through the whole interview. I mean, honestly, like we tried with the Kirby thing a couple times toward the very start, and then after that, it was – we'd just kind of given up for a while. It's like, well, we're just going to let him be. One day we just decided, yeah, screw it. It's toward the end of the year. We'll try. And that was the day he said yes. Yeah, I was standing there.

[01:00:23] It was like, you know, it was pretty – and the look on your face was kind of like, really? And so then you didn't even know what to do. Not really. Yeah. Well, you guys – Thanks, Ryan. Appreciate it. No, I appreciate it for having me on. I won't make fun of you anymore Lyle, I promise. Uh-huh. We'll see how long that lasts. Well, yeah, I'll just do it when you're on the radio instead. Oh, there you go. Divish is always great. Hope you guys enjoyed the conversation.

[01:00:53] Do you have one takeaway from this before we wrap up? Well, it puts a lot of responsibility – he was – the way he was highlighting it, a lot of the responsibility of how they're – they decide to play on the field goes to the players instead of, I would say, the coaching staff. Well, I thought that part was very interesting. There's – there's responsibility for these guys to make the correct decisions whether or not they decide to bunt and whether or not they decide to seal. And I think about that because when we were talking to Jason Churchill last week,

[01:01:22] he's like, look, I think this team's going to run a lot. Yeah, well, based off of Divish's messaging and the messaging of the Mariners, they're going to run a lot because the players want to run a lot, and that's how they want to play. Hopefully, that allows them to play better when they're playing in the style they think that fits them best. And, you know, I guess I'm here for it. I think the players know what their strengths are, and they should lean into it. I thought it was interesting to hear him say that he doesn't feel like Dan and Scott are all that different from how they manage and operate games,

[01:01:49] which has not really been the thought ever since Dan came in. The idea was he was much different than service, but when Divish lays it out, maybe it's not. When you really think about it and listen to what he says, maybe it's not all that different. Do you think some of that just comes with having the same roster, though, and the same front office, same pretty much everything else? Partly, and that you have to play to your strengths. But again, I thought the idea of this coaching staff was it was going to be very different, but from what Divish highlighted,

[01:02:17] maybe we'll see a lot of similarities as the season goes on. I think some of the in-game management's different. We didn't talk about that at the start, but a little more rigid. A little more rigid, I would say. Yeah, more rigid. We didn't talk about this in the front end of the podcast, but for example, on Monday when there were runners on base and you had a lefty on the mound and you had a chance to put Garver in the game, I believe in the sixth inning, and they didn't do it, and they left Rowdy in there against the lefty when Garver's got an 860 career OPS against lefties.

[01:02:47] That was a little bit of a head-scratcher. Sure. And then there was Sunday where Munoz was essentially designated for the ninth inning, even though Lawrence Butler and Brent Rooker were coming up in the eighth inning, and he had Trent Thornton face them. Right. So that was interesting. I thought that was interesting. That can change, of course, as the season goes along, but at least the early bit of this season, he's been pretty rigid. Right. Yeah, he has. So we've certainly noticed some differences, but when you hear Divish talk about it, he highlights some similarities too.

[01:03:17] Point being, Divish is always great. Always love talking to him. Hopefully you guys enjoyed the conversation. And thanks for sticking with me through this interview with, or through this podcast with a little bit of a cold. So shout out to you guys. Yeah. I know. Oh, we did spend a long time out in the cold this weekend, which is probably how it happened, paired with not a lot of sleep. So yeah, shocker. Not a good combination. Uh-huh. All right. That just about wraps up this edition of the Marine Layer Podcast. You guys know the drill.

[01:03:46] You want to listen to the full-form podcast? Well, you can do so wherever you get your audio pods, but you can find it all on our website. Audio, video. You want to leave reviews? You want to go buy merch? Go get your merch. It's rolling along now. If you want to sign up for our Patreon and a bunch of other things, all on our website, MarineLayerPod.com. It's a one-stop shop. TJ did a great job with it. Go check it out. It's got everything you need if you want to stay on top of all of our stuff. If you want to follow us on social media, you can do so everywhere at MarineLayerPod. That's TJ.

[01:04:16] I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon.