Episode 228: How Sustainable Is The Mariners Performance Over The Weekend?

[00:00:00] Welcome to episode number 228 of the Marine Layer Podcast. A ton of Mariners news this week. The Mariners come off arguably their best weekend of the season. They call up third base prospect Ben Williamson and Matt Brash and Troy Taylor almost ready to rejoin the Mariners bullpen. We'll discuss what all that means and more.

[00:00:19] Your guys reminder before we start this show if you want to stay on top of all of our stuff. It's all in one spot. It's over at MarineLayerPod.com. That's our new website. We've unveiled it over the last few weeks. Go find everything over there, including what's our first live show our schedules our live show schedules are up on the website. And that's on Saturday you guys our next live show Saturday 11am. Queen Anne Beer Hall followed by a watch party at 12pm head on over there. Check the schedule and make sure to mark your calendar.

[00:00:48] We've got the calendar to get on out to that because we are fired up for it. So that's over there. Episodes are over there. Merch, Patreon, that's all over there. Find everything over at MarineLayerPod.com and then follow us everywhere across social media at MarineLayerPod. Let's get it rolling.

[00:01:15] And we welcome you to this episode of the Marine Layer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network, recording on Sunday evening, April 13th. I think it's safe to say the torpedo bats just saved the Mariners season. Sure? Like, do you want me to save? No, don't sure. Yes, they did. They saved it. It's concluded. The season is saved.

[00:01:43] So we go from seasons over to seasons saved in three games, four games? Because they didn't have the torpedo bats. We get there on Friday and all of a sudden, hey, by the way, guys, the torpedo bats just got here. And then what happens? Oh, Cal Raleigh homers in every game that he has a torpedo bat. Well, I will say this. I wouldn't want to see how the fan base is sitting right now if they had lost all three of those games. So sure, here on April 13th, season saved. Well, then they'd have to shred the torpedo bats instantly.

[00:02:13] You know, last I checked, Ted Williams never homered in every game of his career, right? It's essentially a new career for Cal Raleigh. I think Cal Raleigh, with the torpedo bat, is the greatest player of all time. So he'd be on pace for what, 2,500 homers more? Barry Bonds would never. Now, would Barry Bonds have used the torpedo bat? I think he had it figured out.

[00:02:43] Could have tripled his home run count. No, I think he would have still been good with that. Though, listen, how about this? Say Cal Raleigh plays in the 50s, 60s, and 70s instead. Hits his, what, you said 2,500 home runs, roughly? Then maybe he thinks about it. But if he was offered a torpedo bat before Cal Raleigh became the greatest player of all time, I don't think he'd use it. All right.

[00:03:13] I guess I can buy into that. Sure. And it's not just Cal... No one else... Oh, sorry. Go ahead. It's not just Cal Raleigh using the torpedo bats. For anybody curious or who didn't know, Randy's using them, and I believe a couple other guys are using them, too. It's not. But none of the other players have turned into the greatest player of all time. That only can go to one player. Like, sorry. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah? I don't know what else you want me to say. Like, sure.

[00:03:43] It's an insane... It's 162 homer pace. I don't know what else we can say. I guess Cal likes hitting the ball off the label. That works out. Next time we're at the park, we're going to have to ask him. Because the only times we saw him, he had only combined hit one home run with a torpedo bat. Not three. So we'll check in. If he goes this entire road trip... And remember who's coming up on this road trip, Lyle. His favorite team of all time, the Toronto Blue Jays.

[00:04:09] If he goes scorched earth in two hitters' parks, and then against the Toronto Blue Jays as well, I think we're going to have to have, like, an MJ LeBron debate in, like, a week and a half. Could you imagine if he goes up north of the border and hits five homers against the Blue Jays? Cal Raleigh or Barry Bonds? Next on the Marine Layer Podcast.

[00:04:35] He just goes, like, signed extension, torpedo bats, playing his nemesis, playing the team he torches the best. Five homers. Yeah. That sounds like a cheat code to me. And John Schneider's still in the dugout, too, right? So he's got the chip on his shoulder. Yeah. Yeah, he is still in the dugout. Our favorite Blue Jays fan can't be too happy about that, which, if you don't remember,

[00:05:02] we've interviewed a Blue Jays fan two years in a row in Seattle who is just, just unhinged, and he was wearing, like, a John Schneider clown shirt last year. Yeah. Well, I hope we'll see Troy in a month. Blue Jays will be down in about a month or so. Seattle, right? Middle of May? Yeah. Yeah. Well, not just Troy. It's going to be an all-time weekend. Our friends over at the Gate 14 pod apparently are making the trip out to Seattle, and those guys, oh, those guys are a bunch of fun.

[00:05:32] That will be an interesting clash of personality. Uh-huh. And I think you get what I mean by that. It will. Yeah. All right. But in terms of this series, in terms of the one they just swept against the Rangers, yeah, there's a lot of good to take away. There really is. And again, I think it's a series that everybody needed. Players, coaches, fans, you name it. Because they looked about as bad as you can look in that Houston series. In spite of winning two or three, they did win two or three games, but it didn't look

[00:05:59] pretty, there was a lot better, cleaner baseball over the last three games between stringing offense together, solid pitching, bullpen looked much, much improved. So just felt like it felt a little easier to take a breath and just relax after this series, which is easy to say after a sweep, but just the baseball overall as a whole was a lot cleaner to watch. I'll take it a step further. I thought it was the best hitting series they've had all season by a lot.

[00:06:26] I thought it was the best starting pitching series they've had, and it was the best bullpen series they've had. Is that fair? Was it a better pitching series than the first weekend against the A's? When Logan dealt and Wu dealt. Remember, they gave up seven runs in that series in a game. Right. All right. So. Bryce didn't look as sharpest on Friday, so I was just. He didn't. And Logan wasn't totally sharp on Sunday. It was not one of his greatest outings of all time.

[00:06:55] But I think the collective effort makes it reflect more positively, especially the runs. 17 runs in three games is not nothing for a team like the Seattle Mariners. We said just remembering what the vibes were like on Wednesday in about the top of the eighth inning where it's like this team is never scoring runs ever again. They're not scoring. Right. And since that point, they walk off the Astros on Wednesday.

[00:07:19] They put together a couple of great offensive innings, and then they go against the best the Rangers have to offer for the most part in terms of the starting rotation. They have their two top dollar pitchers in Jacob deGrom and Nate Evaldi. They knock them both out of the game early. And then they face Kumar Rocker, who has not been unbelievable this season. Very highly touted prospect. Very highly touted college prospect. Super nice guy that we got to talk to at the park this weekend.

[00:07:48] Awesome dude. But the Mariners took advantage of the opportunity that was in front of them with the Rangers, and they put together some good at bats. They ran pitch counts up. They knocked the starters out early. They were able to attack the Rangers bullpen. There's just not a whole lot to complain about. The bottom of the lineup was productive. I mean, people were memeing the bottom of the lineup. Us included. I'm not freeing us to blame it all. We're memeing the bottom of the lineup where it was in some order all weekend, Lyle.

[00:08:18] It was Rowdy, Masturbone, JP, and Leo Rivas for the most part. And people were like, what the heck is that? But they were productive all weekend. Yeah, they were. Do we want to spend a second on Miles Masturbone here, or do we want to wait? We can give Miles Masturbone his love. Because I have a question for this weekend that we can save for later, and I don't think Miles is going to answer yes on this question. But Miles Masturbone has put together some solid at bats here in the last week and change or so.

[00:08:48] I'm going to shout out friend of the podcast, Ty Dane Gonzalez, co-host of the Locked On Mariners podcast, for I think bringing this to light a little bit more. There are probably some other people, too, who have been pointing this out. But I certainly didn't originate this, but I had to go look at it when I saw it getting mentioned. If you take a look at Miles Masturbone's hard hit rate and his average exit velocity in the last, I don't know, let's say like 10-plus batted balls. He's hitting like well over 95. And that's elite, by the way.

[00:09:17] A 95-plus is elite, elite. That's better than what Aaron Judge does on a full season basis. That's kind of where Miles Masturbone is at right now. He's not going to hit 60 home runs, but he's actually kind of looked solid at the bottom of the lineup. I'll give him credit because it's not even a week ago that you and I were sitting here being like, why is he pinch hitting? What's the point of giving him at bats? It doesn't make any sense. He's put together some better ones. You know his WRC plus is 116?

[00:09:47] That's pretty good. You'll take that from a utility player. It's doing more. Every day you'll take that. And look, he's not going to hit for any power. It's just not his game. And I don't know if he's going to hit 315, 320 all year either. But if he's going to be some form of Nick Madrigal where, all right, he's not going to hit for any loft or any real pop, but he's going to hit a lot of singles and he's going to reach base and he's going to steal and he's going to play some second-base defense. There's something to that.

[00:10:16] And this is not me saying he is going to be the player that once got Nick Madrigal drafted top five in the MLB draft, but some form of it where, yeah, he's a quality utility infielder. We're going to need to see more of it, but the fact he's hitting the ball hard and he's on base and he can run, he's doing some things that have helped the team early on here. Given the state of the Mariners roster too, they need that utility player since they're going to have to have their other

[00:10:42] utility players start full-time at one single position, right? So you need someone else to fill in around the cracks to make this roster, I would say, better. Is it going to sustain? I have no idea. The Mariners have a few players who could occupy this role right now, but Miles Masturoni has earned himself some playing time, at least for the time being, while he is competent offensively. Now, if he goes back to being his career norm offensively, which we've talked about is like a 60 WRC plus hitter,

[00:11:12] he's not going to be in the lineup every day. In fact, he might not be long for the roster if that's the case, but he's not that right now. In fact, he's significantly better than that. And I think the Mariners are greatly benefiting from it because his bat, you know, his bat was the most unknown thing. It's the thing he had not proven at all at the big league level, but we know he could play defense. We know he has some speed. We know he likes the Mariners like him to run the bases a little bit. He can play five different positions. Those are all pluses. So if you add on another plus with the bat, I think it, it really helps.

[00:11:41] And I think it is really going to help this next guy. We're about to talk about as well. Ease his way into the big leagues. You would be referring to one Ben Williamson. Am I right? Yes, I would be. Yeah. He got the call up on Sunday. So Mariners make the call. Ben Williamson goes to the show. They option dominant can zone down back to triple a and they are hoping that Ben Williamson and his very,

[00:12:10] very quality third base defense, give them a little bit more stability on the infield. That is what they are hoping. Before Ben was called up. Master Boney was the one starting at third. Those first two weekend games, right? He's did. He started third today on Sunday. I think it was him because Rivas didn't play on Sunday here. I'm pretty sure it was master playing third. So, yeah, it was master Boney at third base. I was traveling today, by the way.

[00:12:38] So apologies for not having that up at the top of my head. So it's master, but without Williamson there, right? Master Boney is the guy you're relying on at third base every single day, which, as we've said, is not probably the best way to utilize a utility player. You want them to play all over the place. And we knew Ben at some point was going to get the call up this year and he was going to spend some quality time at third base. If I had to take a guess on Tuesday, Ben Williamson will be starting at third base for the Mariners and they're going to get him some at-bats.

[00:13:08] They're going to get his feet wet in the big leagues and they're going to showcase his best tool, which is his defense. Besides his defense, Lyle, is there anything else Ben you think brings? Is there any other reason to think Ben Williamson is on this roster besides to just give the Mariners some defensive stability over there on the left side of the infield? He's a decent athlete, so that too. Maybe that all ties in. And this probably allows for a second base platoon to continue on now

[00:13:37] because with Ryan Bliss out, if you call up Ben Williamson now, which they have, feels like they'll probably just run Masturboni and Demo as a platoon at second base. So, yeah, I think that is all encapsulating why Ben Williamson's here. Now, there's a question to be had, and we talked about it a bit this morning, of is this sound? Is this move sound? And I don't mean for –

[00:14:06] I more mean in the sense of Ben Williamson's development. I more mean in the sense of doing what's best for the prospect. There is some question there, and we can talk about it. But it does give some versatility around the infield, and it gives a little bit more stability to guys playing in more of the same spots every day. Let's continue talking about the positive before we get to the negative part because I think there are certainly some parts to highlight with that, Lau.

[00:14:33] I do think it means something that they will have solid defense over there at third base. Jude laid this out – Adam Jude laid this out in his tweet when he wrote his article about Ben Williamson getting called up. And I imagine Adam talked to some people with the Mariners on their reasoning for calling Ben Williamson up. And the exact wordage from Jude is that the Mariners were effectively hoping that he emerges, for now,

[00:14:57] to be a similar Josh Rojas 2024 type at the big league level this year. We highlighted that Josh Rojas had been about a .550 OPS hitter for a majority of last year after he'd gotten off to that hot start. But he had the gold glove defense, gold glove quality defense over there at third base, which allowed him to accumulate almost two wins above replacement over there at third. I'm not saying Ben Williamson's going to be a two-win player,

[00:15:24] but it is more valuable than having no offense and average defense over there at third base, like a zero or negative .3 win third baseman over there. Say you play Myles Mastroboni every single day at third base. We just talked about his hot streak, but you and I both think if they've played Myles Mastroboni every single day, at best he's going to be an ADWRC plus, and his defense is not as good as Ben Williamson's. So what's his value really going to be over there at third? Is he making the Mariners better?

[00:15:54] No, probably not. So you benefit more by having someone like Ben Williamson over there at third base. Same applies for Demo, by the way, because Demo's glove, while solid, is not that good to accumulate that kind of value. I'm trying to look up what Josh Rojas' war was from May 15th and on, because those are the numbers we use with Rojas. May 15th and on, he had about a 550 OPS. Really, really tough. I feel like a lot of those two wins were accumulated early on in the year when he was scorched earth hot. That's fine.

[00:16:24] And this is what I'm going to get to, is Ben Williamson doesn't have to be an all-star bat. We talked about it on the last episode. In fact, pretty far from it, he can't be a liability there, because the offense struggles enough as it is. You have got to have some stability. If Ben Williamson's an ADWRC plus hitter, all right. I'm not saying that's great, but it can at least keep him afloat and keep his value afloat. If he's going to be a 68 WRC plus hitter like he was in Tacoma,

[00:16:54] then you start to run into some real problems. Because this is somebody that, for now, it sounds like they're going to play most days. Let's jump into that downside, and I want to get to the point you laid out, is are the Mariners doing Ben Williamson a disservice by not letting him fully develop at the big league level? Let's start with a stat. The Mariners, if I make sure I have this correctly, because Mariners PR relayed this to, I think they tweeted it out, Tim Booth tweeted it out as well. So Ben Williamson has played 150 minor league games.

[00:17:23] When he debuts for the Mariners, he'll be the first prospect with 150 or fewer games in the minors that has debuted since Mike Zanino in 2013. And Mike Zanino was notoriously rushed to the big leagues for his defense because the Mariners didn't really know what they were doing at that point. Ben Williamson's the fastest since that guy. Not Julio, not Jared Kelnick, not Evan White, not Kyle Lewis. No, Ben Williamson of all players. That's not nothing.

[00:17:53] That's not a lot of games. And what happened to Mike Zanino when he was rushed too early? His bat was severely underdeveloped. He needed probably another 150 games in the minors to get his bat to a serviceable big league level. And that's not to say Mike Zanino didn't end up carving out a very solid big league career, but it could have been better if he allowed, especially his Mariners career, could have been a lot better if his bat just got to develop a little bit more.

[00:18:21] I was going to say, did his whole baseball career take a left turn after that? And I'm not saying, yeah, I'm with you that his career ended up being serviceable, but could Mike Zanino have been an all-star like he was projected to be if they had just given him more time to develop in the minors? I know it's a different scenario than Ben Williamson because Williamson's ceiling is not what Zanino's was. But, I mean, I think there's a real answer that that's yes. When Mike Zanino was at Florida, he was unbelievably good.

[00:18:50] There's a reason he got drafted where he was drafted. He won the Golden Spikes. Mm-hmm. I mean... And, Lyle, let's remember, Mike Zanino does have an all-star game home run. He does. You remember the year? Yeah, it was 2021 at Coors Field, right? It was. Obviously field too, I think. Yeah, it was. Classic Mike Zanino home run. Mm-hmm. I don't think Ben Williamson has those tools, though. That's just not the kind of offensive player he is.

[00:19:19] So you mentioned his WRC Plus and Tacoma. And I'm laying this out for Mariners fans to sort of allow their expectations to take place of what to expect from Ben Williamson as sort of an offensive performer. There could be. There always is a chance with a player that he could develop and become significantly better than he was as a prospect, as he was coming up. And sometimes that development just takes place at the big league level.

[00:19:44] But Ben Williamson in AAA, he still hit .281 while having a 68 WRC+. Like a .281 batting average and a 68 WRC+. Can I contextualize something before you keep going? Sure, yeah. Let's remember, like, I know it sounds obvious, but it needs to be said here. There is no bigger jump at any level than AAA to the big leagues.

[00:20:13] The jump from single A to AA is as big as it is. Not the same as AAA to the big leagues. From college to the minor leagues, it is not the same. There is no bigger jump. There really isn't. So, small sample. But if he's got a 68 WRC+, in AAA, what happens in the show? On top of that, his average exit velocity at AAA was 87 miles an hour.

[00:20:40] That is, like, fifth percentile, give or take, in the big leagues. Fifth to first. That's about where that is. That's like a Luis Sarai's. Luis Sarai's, without the, you know, Luis Sarai's is a whole different animal when it comes to contact. Ben Williamson is not Luis Sarai's when it comes to that. But when your average exit velocity is that low, your chances of getting hits drop significantly. You have to be able to place balls perfectly to get hits.

[00:21:08] You will not luck your way into some hits when guys with higher exit velocities do. Ben Williamson's going to have to work a little bit harder to get that offensive production. And, well, at least in Tacoma, in 14 games, he had not done that so far. It's not to say he hasn't been productive in the minors. If you go back to just last year, he had 122 WRC+, with over 500 plate appearances in high A and AA last year.

[00:21:34] But that comes with a slugging percentage that was below 400. He had four home runs and 541 plate appearances last year as a third baseman. Third basemen are expected to hit more than four home runs and 500 plate appearances. While his glove earns him a chance to play at third base, the bat could ultimately be a reason why he doesn't stick at third base. Because you need offense out of that position. So we'll see.

[00:22:04] But Ben's going to get thrown into the fire this week against a real baseball team and a good hitting park in Cincinnati. And just because we're saying all this loud here on Monday, he's going to probably hit two home runs on Tuesday. He is playing a great American ballpark, so it's very possible. Not only will he hit two, he will go. So he'll pull one. But he'll go oppo, like in that short right field corner. It's a pretty good place to hit. Sure. Look, and I hope he does.

[00:22:32] And he was a good hitter in AA last year. He wasn't elite. He wasn't over the top. But he had a 114 WRC plus in AA. And he also walked 10% of the time. Ben Williamson's drawn walks in the minor leagues, which is yet another thing he has to his offensive profile that could work in his favor. Again, this is the last thing I'll say about it. Why didn't the Mariners just put him on the opening day roster if that's the case? I know Jorge Polanco slated at third and you had Mastroboni off the bench.

[00:23:01] But if Ben Williamson can move around and play second and he can play third, why didn't he just make the club out of camp? Because they didn't think Ryan Bliss was going to essentially miss the season. And I thought, I'm sure they thought Jorge Polanco's injuries would not have flared up the way they did, if I'm going to guess. Sure. And I'm not sitting here saying Ben Williamson should have made the team out of camp. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying maybe he feels, I mean, not maybe.

[00:23:29] The Mariners very clearly feel like this is their best option. It's just, I don't know how much they could have seen in 14 games in AAA to say, now it's time. Obviously it has to do with the injuries. I just, do you get what I'm saying here? I get it. Yeah, I get it. I'm going to say it's mostly the Bliss injury. Almost all of it. Sure. And now as a result of that, they're saying, look, we need you. I know we thought we were going to give you a little more time in the minors, but we really need you. So that's what they're saying.

[00:23:57] And think about the athlete they need to replace too. They liked Bliss stealing bases. Like Ben's the good, Ben's a good athlete. They need to, besides the bat, they need to replace that profile somehow on the roster. Right. And they had, think of the guy who they sent down in Dom Kinzone. That's not Dom's game. Dom's not a speedy guy on the base paths. Ben fits that a little bit better. Let me ask you the question before we move on back to this weekend a little bit more.

[00:24:24] You asked the question, are they doing Ben Williamson a disservice by calling him up without giving him more time in AAA? Do you think so? A little bit. But at the same time, this may just be his profile. Do I think he could have benefited from some more minor league at-bats? Yeah. If Ben Williamson had a 110 WRC plus through six weeks in AAA and then they called him up, I'd say, all right.

[00:24:54] Like, I mean, it's a tough jump no matter what. But at least he's gotten some more bats under him, some more games under him. He's had a little more time. You know, he's adjusted to a higher level of pitching that cannot replicate the big leagues, but it gets a little bit closer. But all that being said, the Mariners may also just feel like Ben Williamson is who he is at this point. They say, okay, he's 25, college-drafted kid, successful for the most part at AA last year.

[00:25:22] And some guys do go right from AA to the big leagues. Not all of them, some of them. And they may say he didn't have that much to do in AAA otherwise. He didn't have that much else to work on offensively. And even if he got some more bats, they didn't feel like his trajectory as a prospect and his upside as a prospect was going to change that much overall, whether they called him up now or they called him up on May 15th. So a little bit of a disservice? Yeah, a little bit because he has not played very many games.

[00:25:53] But it's not the same. I'm not going to sit here and say it's the same as what happened with Kelnick in 21. I 100% agree with you. The Mariners understand there's a limit to his ceiling, I think. That's what I feel like. I think they knew that when they drafted him. I think they knew that when they've been evaluating him in the minor leagues. They just know there's only so much he's going to be able to do on a baseball field given his profile. So why not take advantage of that right now? And it's good for him.

[00:26:21] He gets to see the big leagues faster than other guys in his draft class, which is awesome and amazing. But also remember, he's a bit of an older prospect as well. So if you're older, they give you a little bit less leeway to develop down in the minor leagues. It's, all right, you're 24 and a half now. Let's see something. Instead of waiting and being like, oh, you're 25 now. Oh, now you're 26. Now your bat's ready, but you're 26 years old coming up from AAA.

[00:26:50] It's less intrigue for them at some point. This is also, I would say, Ben Williamson's best chance to prove himself that he deserves a spot on this Mariners infield for the future. Because guess who's coming up after him? Cole Young, Colt Emerson, Felmine, Tyler Locklear if he seizes a position at first base. Like there are guys coming up behind him, Michael Arroyo, that could see some time on that infield.

[00:27:15] And if he stays down in AAA, well, he's not going to buy himself any staying power if he is just like a solid AAA hitter. No, he's going to have to prove himself at the big leagues if he's going to want to compete with those guys and keep a spot on this infield in the future. Sure. No, no doubt. Let me say this too. This is the last, last thing. This is awesome for Ben. I don't know if anybody, any of Ben Williamson's friends or his family or anybody is listening to this. Maybe, maybe not.

[00:27:43] But like the narratives we just talked about here, it's not a Ben Williamson thing. Ben Williamson has done everything right. He's done everything he's supposed to do. He's played great defense. He's developed quickly. He's hitting the minors. He's walked. He's an athlete. This is not a Ben Williamson thing. The, the, you know, proceed with caution side of this segment that we're talking about is more are the Mariners looking out for his best interest.

[00:28:08] This isn't a, this isn't a, oh, like, you know, I don't want to see Ben Williamson or like, you know, if you get what I'm saying, this isn't a, there's nothing about Ben Williamson himself. It's more of like, is the organization doing right by him? That is, that is my only slight concern here. But for Ben, like everybody should be fired up and Mariners fans should be fired up because people have wanted to see him for a while. So in that sense, it's really cool. And look, we saw what happened with Cal Raleigh in 22, right? He got told sink or swim.

[00:28:38] Tom Murphy got hurt. They needed him. He ran with it. Sure. There's a world Ben Williamson can run with this thing. Why not? I'm just, I'm just more looking at the organization's perspective of it and how, how much they are kind of rushing them up. But that's not to say he can't succeed. Yeah, exactly. I think that's really well said. Let's switch gears. Let's go back to this weekend and more of a general picture. So the Mariners obviously sweep the Rangers. They look great. What about this weekend was real?

[00:29:08] Stop me if you've heard this before. The pitching, the pitching's real. And can I just zone in on Brian Wu here? Sure. That dude dealt. Not in the first inning, but after that, you want to talk about efficiency? I mean, you and I were looking at each other on Saturday when he's at 27-ish pitches in the first inning. And we said, well, I hope he can find a way to get through five and pitch five innings because it's April 12th at the time.

[00:29:37] And we said, this bullpen's already taxed. It's two weeks into the year. Brian Wu went seven innings of one run ball and was absolutely dominant. He retired the final 12 in a row. God, he's so good. You've been calling it. But that's the one thing that I'm going to agree with you of real from this weekend. Incredible. Nearly 30 pitches in that first inning. There was the drop fly ball, right? His command wasn't very good in that first inning.

[00:30:05] He still made it through seven without throwing 100 pitches. Despite throwing nearly 30 in the first. That's really hard to do. Elsewhere besides that, I mean, I thought all the starting pitching was really good. I don't think the bullpen was necessarily sustainable throughout the weekend. I think once Troy Taylor and Matt Brash come back, which we'll talk about here in a little bit, it will feel a little bit more sustainable because the upside's going to be a little bit higher from that unit. But that unit pitched really well this weekend.

[00:30:34] They pitched really well this week, Lyle. Here are these stats from the Mariners' bullpen this week. 25 and a third innings, a 1-8-5 ERA in the six games against the Astros and the Rangers this week. That's remarkable. And think about the games against the Rangers. The only real bad bullpen outing this weekend was Trent Thornton on Friday against the Rangers. He gave up a couple of runs.

[00:30:59] Otherwise, Gregory Santos came in to mop up on Saturday when the Mariners were up 9-1. He didn't pitch the ball that great. But the Mariners had the game in hand. And then today on Sunday, they were great. I mean, what are we going to complain about? Talk about the most sustainable part of this bullpen, Lyle, because we're stamping our flag and our guy over and over again. It seems every week this season, Gabe Spire is back.

[00:31:28] When you have an 0-26 ERA, yeah, I think you can say he's back. Dude, he has been dominant. Legitimately dominant. This is what Gabe Spire looked like last April before the injuries caught up to him. Have you seen his Savant page? It's pretty good. Right now, very small sample again. But every reliever is in a small sample. So you could say it's an even playing field.

[00:31:53] He has 87th percentile pitching run value, 81st percentile fastball run value, and 83rd percentile breaking ball run value. That's a good profile. It's a lot of red. And his average fastball right now this season is over 95 miles an hour. You know what he looks like? He looks like a leverage reliever. He doesn't look like a lefty specialist. He looks like a leverage reliever. And that's what this guy is at his best.

[00:32:16] I truly do think he's probably on the lower end of leverage relievers, but it's still a really, really good profile as a lefty. It, at times, is just overpowering to both lefties and righties. And something the Mariners really need. Because I just talked about Gregory Santos. The Mariners haven't gotten all the leverage guys here early in the season that they've wanted to. And Gabe has been able to step into some of those roles and done a really good job at it.

[00:32:42] So then when you add back in Matt Brash, and he's working back, and you add back in Troy Taylor, who sounds like he's going to be back for the Cincinnati series, all of a sudden, you have more than just Andres Munoz to rely upon. Yeah, we get into the swing of things. You could have three or four leverage guys. You could have Munoz. You could have Spire. You could have Brash. You could have Taylor. That's a lot of leverage. It's going to be really, really fascinating. I hope it works out that way.

[00:33:09] But if Gabe keeps pitching to any level like this, man, the Mariners are in for some success out of that bullpen. I don't know if Gabe's going to have an 026 ERA all year. I hope he does. That'd be sick. But if he's going to get back to 2023, Gabe Spire, that's a huge help. Do we feel like any of the 17 runs over three games was sustainable? I got to see more of it. We know with this offense, we know what it is.

[00:33:38] We know what the limitations are. We know what the injuries are. I got to see a little bit more. I don't know. I don't think Cal's hitting a home run every game, unfortunately, despite us talking about at the beginning of the show that he may be the greatest player ever. Underestimate him, Lyle. I dare you. Well, there's that. I also don't know if Polo's going to hit 380 all year. But it does look like he is on pace to have a solid year, like a very good year, I should say, because he's swinging it well and he does not look overmatched.

[00:34:08] He doesn't look uncomfortable. So, I would say Jorge Polanco's offensive profile is sustainable right now. And again, it's probably not 380 average sustainable, but it's sustainable. He should be a middle-of-the-order bat for them. The Jorge Polanco we're watching right now is who the guy was in Minnesota. I think Rowdy Tellez triples are sustainable. Oh, so you wanted to go this route. Okay. That may be the worst slide I've ever watched.

[00:34:36] You know what I think is just, yeah, it was really bad. Rowdy, that was, what was he trying to do? I think he legitimately could not decide between going head first and feet first, and that's how you end up in the middle. He ended up just rolling, essentially. Do you see Julio's Instagram posts this afternoon on Sunday after the win? If I remember right, he posted nine Julio photos and then Rowdy belly flopping. Uh-huh.

[00:35:08] So, everyone's taking it well, which is good. And the most important thing is that Rowdy had a big hit and a big moment, drove it in the gap. Yeah. And drove in some runs. The slide again. Yeah, it's not, he's going to have to work on that. Can you believe he's hit three other triples? You know, some ballparks are big. Sometimes you hit it to the right spot. Sometimes you just get a little bit lucky. I can believe it. He's been in the big leagues long enough.

[00:35:33] I mean this with the utmost respect in the world, but that ball was in the field for a long time. I don't know how Rowdy did not get to third base. I think you know how, but... Well, yeah, obviously I know how. On a more serious note with this offense, I think my big takeaway, you and I were talking about this before we were recording. Just talk yourself through some of the names of this offense. You had already mentioned Jorge Polanco.

[00:36:02] I don't think he really fits this profile. But just walk yourself through this Mariners lineup and think about it when you try and see if stuff like this is sustainable. Would you say Luke Raley's a streaky player? Yeah. Would you say Randy Rosarena's a streaky player? Absolutely. Actually, and with Luke Raley, just to elaborate for a second more on this, we know he had two really awful months last year and four unbelievable ones. So this is who Luke Raley is.

[00:36:31] You're going to have to accept at points in the year he is going to struggle beyond belief. And then there's points he's going to be just hotter than the sun. Would you say Julio's a streaky player? Yeah. Would you say Cal Raley's a streaky player? Yeah. I mean, you know what you're going to get year over year from Cal. But yeah, he has his hot streaks. So that's four of probably the Mariners' five core hitters.

[00:36:58] Polanco, from what he's shown us so far and what he's shown in his career, is not as reliant on being streaky. He's a little more consistent game to game. But the rest of those guys, it really rests on the hotness and the coldness of their varying states. And I think that's just something that's going to have to be in consideration for a lot of the season. I'm not even saying this weekend was entirely them just all being hot at the exact same time.

[00:37:24] But that's certainly going to be a factor with this offense going forward on whether or not they're going to be able to consistently score runs. Because that's just how this offense is built at this moment, right? I think a big reason they scored runs this weekend is because they got contributions up and down the lineup. It wasn't just the stars. It was some of the guys at the bottom of the lineup that did something that you've been asking for. So, Miles Mastroboni. Yeah. And if you want to look glass half full too, Julio's not at his best yet. Randy's certainly not at his best yet.

[00:37:53] Luke Raley's not at his best yet. So, there is still room for the offense to take the ceiling up and to have more production. And hopefully this is just the start of that. Yeah. Let's wrap this up. We got a couple more quick things to talk about. Number one, Brash and Troy Taylor are getting close. Because Troy Taylor, in fact, arrived in the Mariners clubhouse after Sunday's game. It looks like he's going to be in Cincinnati on Tuesday, which is going to be a big boost. Brash made his first rehab outing in Tacoma today.

[00:38:22] So, Taylor got three. Brash gets five, you would say? I don't know how many Brash will get. That sounds about right. Because obviously the injury is more serious than Taylor. And you'll want to build him up a bit. But if Brash has five, does that come over the course of ten days, two weeks? Because the Mariners still say late April with Brash. If it's two weeks, that would be late April. I'd say two weeks. They're not going to pitch.

[00:38:48] I don't think they're going to pitch Brash back-to-back until he makes it to the big leagues. Oh, I don't even know if Brash goes back-to-back until the summer. It may be a while. Exactly. Yeah. But I'm wondering how many outings. Again, how much time you think it'll be before he gets back. Do you want to say two weeks and roughly pitches every other day? I'd say two weeks sounds about right. One inning every other day. I think it's reasonable for Matt Brash. He only topped out at 97 today.

[00:39:17] Maybe that's only how hard he was trying to throw. But you'd like to see him get up a little bit more. We'll see. I'll say roughly five outings. By the end of the road, let's say this. He comes back for the Marlins Friday game. That's when he'll be back. That's about two weeks from now. That'd be great. That'd be awesome. They could fit five innings in between now and then. I would guess the two relievers that go down, Casey Lawrence still needs to go down.

[00:39:46] And so does you think Casey Legamina would be the other one. I would guess at this point. He hasn't even pitched yet, Legamina. So I would assume, yeah. I'd assume they'll throw Legamina a couple times and then send him back down. I don't know if it's going to be Casey Lawrence that goes for Troy Taylor this week because somebody eventually is going to have to go down for the next starter to come back up.

[00:40:11] So when somebody comes back up and it feels like it's going to be Emerson Hancock, it seems like it's slotting out that way, especially because the Mariners decided to re-slot their rotation with the off day. Somebody's got to go down for Hancock. So if it's going to be, let's say, Casey Lawrence that gets DFA'd and probably just gets brought back to AAA for Emerson Hancock, that's one spot. Let's say Legamina goes for Troy Taylor. That's two. Then who goes for Brash in a couple weeks, if everybody's healthy?

[00:40:40] Can't be Carlos Vargas. He's been pitching way too well. Which has been a little bit of a surprise, but a nice one. It has been. So your options at this point, Bizarro? Bizarro, Thornton, or Santos, I guess? I mean, Santos has an option. Would Santos be the craziest thing? No. It wouldn't be. It wouldn't be great, but it's possible.

[00:41:09] He has not been lighting the world on fire in his outings. He's been a little erratic. The option, I think, is the big thing. I don't think the Mariners want a DFA Trent Thornton now. No. I don't think they want a DFA Edward Bizarro now if they don't have to. And Gregory Santos not pitching well kind of helps them at this point. Not win ballgames, but it helps them from a roster standpoint.

[00:41:38] Especially when Brash is going to take some of the same role that they thought Santos was going to occupy. I couldn't remember if Bizarro has an option, but I just looked. He does not. So, yeah. You're right. They would have to be a fan. Here's the other thing, too. Yeah. It's essentially going to be a battle for the next couple weeks. If Santos has a few really good outings in a row, he'd stay. And they'll have to make some other decision.

[00:41:59] But if it's going to be Legamina for Taylor, and then it's going to be eventually Casey Lawrence that goes back for when the starter comes up, assuming it's Emerson Hancock. Yeah. The rest of those guys will be in a little bit of a battle for that last spot. And that's not even thinking about if the org decides they want Taylor Saucedo back in the big leagues at some point. At some point, it just may be a little bit tough right now.

[00:42:28] Since he has an option, yeah, you have the flexibility to leave him at Tacoma and bring him back up. But I think at some point, given that Saucedo was a solid big league reliever for the last two seasons in a row, they're going to think that he deserves some big league time at some point. Yeah. And these things sometimes sort themselves out with injuries and tired arms and IL stints and stuff like that, which makes it so much easier to bring guys back up. And fill 26-man roster spots.

[00:42:56] And they don't have to worry about a 40-man spot with Saucedo. He's already on there. So that's just something to think about as we go through the course of the season. It's a good problem to have, having someone who's a big league reliever sitting down in AAA, already on your 40-man, already plenty of big league experience. It's a positive. I'm sure Saucedo will be back in the big leagues this year. I just don't know when exactly that is. But I'm sure at some point we'll see him back. To wrap up, I want to get your thought on something.

[00:43:23] Bob Nightingale wrote an article on Sunday talking about a few things around Major League Baseball. And he mentioned the Mariners in it. And I would say at least at first I was a little surprised by it. But given the circumstance, it made sense. Bob was highlighting the fact the Mariners have had a lot of injuries. And that a team called the Mariners and offered up a young infielder in exchange for Luis Castillo. The Mariners shut it down instantly and said, nope, we don't want that.

[00:43:53] I'm trying to think of who it was that offered the Mariners an infielder for Luis Castillo. Who's got an infielder that would cost Luis Castillo at this point in the season? The place my mind went right away is the Red Sox. Because Willi Obray is playing great. You know Roman Anthony is going to come up here soon. There's going to be a log jam in Boston at some point. And that's a team that you know is open to having more starting pitching.

[00:44:21] If I had to guess, you want me to pick the exact player that I think that might have been floated out there? I think it could have been Sedan Raffaella. And I know he signed the extension, and I know that makes it a little bit tough. But it's not a ton of money. It's not some extension that hamstrings any team. And Raffaella plays a lot of different spots. He plays short, center, and second base. I know he hasn't hit a ton. But if I had to guess, I'm going to guess it was the Red Sox. And I wouldn't be shocked if it was him.

[00:44:46] And that balances out at least a little bit of Castillo's deal with that extension. It doesn't make as much. Not even as close. The other team I was thinking about, someone we've talked about a bunch, is the Baltimore Orioles. Those are, I feel like, the two teams in Major League Baseball that have a surplus of young infielders and not enough pitching. Those are the two broad boxes I come up with when I heard that rumor from Bob. I don't know who else. Could it be anyone else?

[00:45:15] We've been through everyone this offseason in terms of who the Mariners could trade Luis Castillo to. Those seem like two of the most popular ones. Yeah. Even if you tried to go through the list of names, maybe the Giants. But they have pitching for the most part. Like, the Braves. The Mets. Yeah, we know the Mets need pitching.

[00:45:45] But, man, Raffaella would be, that's an interesting fit. Mm-hmm. But I get why the Mariners said no. Because the Mariners are like, look, we're at this point of the season. We need to keep our strength to strength, especially while our infield is not playing well. Does Sedan Raffaella make the Mariners better than Luis Castillo right now? Not this second, no. Yeah. So, that answers that question, then. Right.

[00:46:15] And you've already got Kirby injured. You take another starter out of the rotation. All of a sudden, I don't know if the Mariners have the best rotation in baseball anymore. If it was the Orioles, do we feel like this is a situation where they try and give up Kobe Mayo two weeks into the season? No, but don't count anything out. Now, Mayo's name, I've said this forever, Mayo's name gets floated out there. I listen a little bit more. Or, Raffaella, no.

[00:46:45] And just note, in Bob's article, there were no names mentioned of what the young infielder was, what division he came from, what league he came from. The only name that was mentioned was Luis Castillo. And this doesn't take into consideration whether or not Castillo had any interest of getting traded on April 13th. He probably doesn't. He probably has zero interest in doing that. Luis Castillo still has nine more months or eight and a half more months of a no trade clause with the Mariners.

[00:47:14] And I'm sure he fully plans on exercising it to the best of his abilities. But I thought that was interesting. That was not something I was expecting here midway through April to see. But teams are paying attention at this point. And teams call all the time. Mostly this was a non-story because it sounds like a team called, asked about Luis. Mariners said, no, no thanks. And that was basically the end of it. So teams are always calling.

[00:47:39] As a team that makes a ton, like more trades than anybody, the Mariners are probably calling people all the time. But not every call is put out there publicly. Yeah. Well, that was a fun cap to a week. Now the Mariners go out onto the road, really, for the first time. First real road trip. Three-city road trip. Week and a half long. Two tough-hitting environments. A lot of talent that they're going to face. It's, for the pitching staff especially, I think it'll be a real test here.

[00:48:08] Going out on the road and seeing what they can sustain out there on the road. And, you know, what they can. What looks a lot like last year in their struggles on the road. You mean two tough-pitching environments, right? I think you said hitting. Yeah, that's what I meant. Cincinnati, tough-pitching environment. Boston, tough-pitching environment. Toronto kind of leads to a pitcher's ballpark. So, it's a talented team. A lot of really good players. Right.

[00:48:36] Yeah, they're going to be put to the test. There's no question. And how they fare on this first road trip, it'll spin storylines one way or another. Either it'll be, look, the pitching was great and they held their own and they kept them in games. Or that narrative may come back about how does the staff fare on the road compared to at home. And I know it's not really fair to do it in a nine-game sample. But that's not to say that it will not be talked about. Yeah.

[00:49:04] And to remind you guys, if you want to watch one of those games on the road trip with us, you can. This upcoming Saturday, April 19th at Queen and Beer Hall, 11 a.m. It's our first in-season live show of the season. At Queen and Beer Hall, we'll have merch giveaways. We'll have hall giveaways. We'll have more giveaways. It'll be start at 11 a.m. We'll do a live show from 11 a.m. to 12 o'clock.

[00:49:28] And then we'll do a watch along for game two of the Mariners and Blue Jays series from Queen and Beer Hall. It's going to be a really fun time, guys. We're going to have a fun show. We'll do more trivia. Get you guys really engaged. Talk about this Mariners season. Sounds like there's going to be a lot of fun guests there. The Mojo guys are going to be there. That's really exciting. A lot of friends are going to be there. I can't wait for it, Lyle. It's going to be a fun week leading up to it. And I can't wait for Saturday. Oh, it's going to be a blast. I can't wait. Yeah.

[00:49:58] And let's hammer that home for a second. We are absolutely going to do more trivia. And we're absolutely going to take your guys' questions. Because one of the cool things about doing this live show is getting to do it right in front of you guys. Where we're not just talking. But we want to, as always, hear your voices. What do you want to either talk about or hear us talk about? So you come to the show. Come prepare with some questions. And ask us some questions. Because we want to hear them. Genuinely. And we will answer every one of them. So, again, April 19th. This Saturday. Queen Anne Beer Hall.

[00:50:27] 11 a.m. Live show. 12 p.m. Watch party. We can't wait. It's going to be a really, really fun afternoon. So come on by. All right. I think that just about wraps up this edition of the Marine Layer Podcast. You guys know the drill. You want to listen to our full-form podcast. Well, there's one stop for everything. Go over to our website. Marinelayerpod.com. It's got our audio episodes. It's got our video episodes over on YouTube. If you're on YouTube, hit subscribe, guys. Just two seconds. Hit subscribe. It really helps the channel a bunch.

[00:50:55] If you're listening, download the episodes. Leave five-star reviews. Go buy your merch all over on the website. Marinelayerpod.com. If you want mailbag priorities, sign up for our Patreon. You get priority. That's, again, over on our website, you guys. It's all there. So to get involved with us, to get on some Zoom calls with us every so often, to get, again, mailbag priorities, go sign up for our Patreon. There's a bunch of benefits. We'd love to get involved with you guys even more.

[00:51:24] So, again, all of that is over there. Marinelayerpod.com. And then you can find us everywhere on social, at Marinelayerpod. That's TJ. I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. Talk to you soon.