Episode 235: What Do We Make Of Julio's Start To The Season? + Doug Glanville (ESPN)

[00:00:00] Welcome to episode number 235 of the Marine Layer Podcast. We welcome on Doug Glanville from ESPN and the Starkville Podcast. We talked to him about his playing career, his work in media, including the fun dynamic he has with another friend of the podcast in Jason Stark. We'll also talk with him about the start to the Mariners season. Speaking of the start to the Mariners season, the Mariners win another award. Jorge Polanco wins American League Player of the Week this week. And we'll also talk about Julio's start to the 2025 season.

[00:00:30] You guys know, but we're going to remind you as always, make sure to stay on top of everything. You guys, you can do that all over at our website, MarineLayerPod.com. Whether you want to listen to episodes, you want to watch episodes, you want to consider signing up for our Patreon, you want to get your merch, which we hope you do. We've seen people wearing it around. It's been awesome. You can find all of that stuff over on our website, MarineLayerPod.com. You can find us everywhere on social media as well at MarineLayerPod. Let's get it rolling.

[00:01:10] And we welcome you to this episode of the MarineLayer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network, recording on Monday evening, April 28th. Happy off day, Lyle, and happy awards day for Jorge Polanco. Fun stat to start the podcast. You've been living under a rock and you've missed this. So Polanco wins American League Player of the Week this week. How about this weekend he had against the Marlins?

[00:01:36] He had three home runs. He was super locked in. Dude is unbelievable. Second best WRC plus in all of baseball at this point. He and Dylan Moore go back to back for American League Player of the Week. Lyle, you want to guess the last time that happened for the Seattle Mariners? Again, I never know if you want me to play dumb to these questions and act like I don't know the answer, or if you want me to just tell our listeners. You answered for the listeners.

[00:02:04] It has been since 1998 when two scrubs by the names of Ken Griffey Jr. and Alex Rodriguez won it back-to-back weeks. I mean, those guys sadly amounted to nothing. Dylan Moore stands on a pedestal compared to those scrubs. Especially in your eyes. Oh yeah, always. Dylan Moore, Jorge Polanco, Alex Rodriguez, and Ken Griffey Jr. over here in my right hand. Yeah.

[00:02:33] Whatever happened to those guys? I mean, fell off the earth? A-Rod broke up with J-Lo and has been off the map? No, I'm kidding. I mean, A-Rod's still everywhere. Junior, well, Junior's in the ownership group. I know, I'm kidding. No, I know. I mean, I'm not mad at you. I'm saying like, oh, well, like, if you want me to rattle off things he's doing, still technically tied with the Mariners.

[00:03:00] Also, you know, Masters photographer Ken Griffey Jr. Seems like his career has turned out okay. Yeah, one of our good friends apparently chatted him up at the Masters for 15 minutes because we have a good friend who covers South Carolina football and baseball down in South Carolina. And he gets to cover the Masters as a result. And he just happens to strike up a 15-minute conversation with Ken Griffey Jr. And we're like, well, we're not jealous at all. That sounds really cool, dude.

[00:03:31] Because Griffey was also there as a member of the media. So they're all sort of hanging out together at that point. Right. Doing, you know, whatever they need to do. And Griffey ends up getting one of the best shots of Rory McIlroy at the end of the Masters. I mean, it's safe to say he's the ultimate white whale guest of this podcast, right? Him? I think Randy would be pretty cool. Though Randy's personality is pretty reserved, isn't it? Is it? Yeah, and Jr. can be at times too.

[00:03:59] But I think if you get him talking about the right things, he'll talk. He didn't talk a lot as a player. And we've heard some stories about that, that when he was a player, he didn't always love the media. Is Jr. more white whale than Ichiro? Ichiro in terms of willing to sit down and do an interview would probably be tougher. But I still feel like... Yeah, I think so. Those two are... It's not too far off, I'd say, these days.

[00:04:29] Probably. But, Ichiro just doesn't really do much media stuff. He doesn't. No offense to Griffey. Ichiro would be way funnier. If he opened up, sure. Yeah, he would. We know how funny he's supposed to be. Heard all the stories about it. Yeah, and Griffey shows his personality when he's on TV sometimes. Like, I think back to the game that was played down in Birmingham last year and he was on the panel,

[00:04:54] which has to be the greatest panel of players to ever be sitting across a table for Fox Sports in terms of a baseball cast, which it was A-Rod, Jeter, Griffey, Barry Bonds, and there's one other that I'm... Oh, and Poppy. Yeah. It was those five. And we've posted this clip a few times because somebody made a remix of it, but Jeter asked Junior and Bonds, he's like, you guys were two of the most confident players that I ever played against.

[00:05:20] So he's like, can you tell me on the spot what you do against Satchel Paige? And this wasn't Junior, but Barry Bonds decided to jump in. He's like, are you asking me? Jeter's like, yeah. And he goes, gone. You know what other player would say that nowadays? Jorge Polanco, Lyle. Come on. Honestly, at this point... Walked right into that one. I mean, he's putting up Barry Bonds-level numbers over the last week or so, that's for sure.

[00:05:51] I was going to say, when that clip gets tweeted out, more often than not, for us, it's Jorge Polanco. True. Well, the first couple times it's been Cal Raleigh, but I think it's about to start becoming Polo. Yeah. Yeah, what a week, man. Because he, over the course of the week, dude has what? Eight hits over the course of five games? A couple of homers? He had a three-hit game on Sunday? It's awesome. I pulled up his Savant page.

[00:06:19] I hadn't seen his Savant page yet this season. It looks like Mike Trout? Minus the defense. Yeah. It's crazy how well Jorge Polanco is doing everything right now. Probably unsustainable, because if he kept this up, I mean, I'm dead serious, he would be right up there with Aaron Judge for American League MVP this year. Mm-hmm. But, man, dude, offensively, he's doing everything right.

[00:06:45] He's making contact at a really high rate, and he's hitting the ball almost perfectly. As perfect as you can imagine a hitter hitting a baseball? That's what Jorge Polanco is doing this season. And you know what's the most mind-blowing thing for me about Polanco?

[00:07:09] I think we're seeing what a healthier Jorge Polanco really looks like. Now, I'm not going to sit here and say he's going to put up a 200 WRC plus all year. But the traits early on are really positive. Look, if you want the exact numbers throughout the week for why he got the award, because I said eight hits. It's eight for 20. He had an awesome week. And, again, the three-hit game on Sunday, three total homers throughout the week.

[00:07:37] But when you look at just the profile of Jorge Polanco and the fact he's hitting the ball hard and he's got the approach and he's drawing the walks and he's – or, no, sorry, he's not drawing the walks. The walks are the one thing he's not doing, but it's fine because the strikeouts have gone down. That's what I meant to say. Strikeouts are way down. And, again, he's barreling everything up. I'm not saying he's going to do exactly this all year, but if you get this Jorge Polanco offensively, this is a different ball club.

[00:08:08] This is exactly what they needed. It's almost turned into the ultimate cog of what this lineup needs in terms of how it's structured. Think about who he's hitting between, right? He's hitting between Julio, who we're going to talk about here in a second, and he hits ahead of Cal. He hits ahead of Luke Rayleigh. He hits ahead of, occasionally, Mitch Garver. Some more swing and miss at that point. He is the one guy you're not going to be getting that's flailing out of the strike zone and not making contact with pitches.

[00:08:38] And it is something we talked about on Monday's episode that came out today on Monday. This episode will be out on Wednesday. That this just high contact rate allows them a lot of things. Where you're not just going to be able to sneak something past Jorge Polanco. He's been actually kind of chasing some pitches, but when you make contact at the rate he's making it at right now, it's going to be really, really tough to beat.

[00:09:06] I will say, something else I noticed from his Savant page. He has played 43 innings at third base and already has minus two outs above average. That's not a good pace. All right, so let's just call it what it is here. He should be the Team DH the rest of the year. Correct. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be working back defensively to being able to play the field, and I'm not saying he shouldn't be doing defensive drills every day.

[00:09:34] Because there could be points in the year where you need to start him at a day, at second or third, or maybe if you're really in a pinch you have to put him out in the field in a certain game or situation. But he is hitting so well right now, and you know that's where all the value of Jorge Polanco is going to come from regardless. So just stick with that. Just let him DH. Let him hit. Because clearly it's not affecting him.

[00:10:00] Clearly playing DH every day is not bogging down his production. Because some people do talk about that, right? Some people do say when they DH, it actually makes it harder to be productive offensively because there's so much waiting around. Well, clearly through a month it's not affecting Jorge Polanco. So I would stick with this for now. You know what I'm going to be looking out for? How is he going to look as a righty when he comes back? All of this is as a lefty. It's a different swing. He's going to be facing different arms.

[00:10:29] I'm a little curious to see. It's just to, I'd say just to put it into context. He's going to be very confident up there at the plate because of what he's doing as a lefty. But since it's a completely different swing, what is that righty production going to look like? So we'll have to see. Even if it's a 700 to 715 OPS as a righty, that's fine. If he keeps doing this against lefties, all he has to be is serviceable up there from the right side.

[00:10:54] And we know that there are plenty of points of Jorge Polanco's career where he's not just serviceable from the right side. He's good from the right side. So we'll have to see how that knee holds up once he's ready to hit that way. But from what he's doing as a lefty right now, he just has to be serviceable up on the right side. I just want all our listeners to know, we do read your comments as we broach into our next subject. So I want to acknowledge those comments. Why aren't you guys talking about Julio?

[00:11:22] You guys are doing everything but talking about Julio Rodriguez to start this season. So you know what we're going to do, Lyle? We're going to talk about Julio here for a couple of minutes. What have you seen so far? Production-wise, if you just want to look at the OPS or the WRC+, it's been a better month than a couple of the Aprils he's had in years past.

[00:11:47] Now, the bar, unfortunately, is fairly low for that because we know Julio struggles out of the gate most seasons. So the production is a little bit up. The actual approach and peripherals don't look that different. Still a lot of strikeout. He's walking a little bit more, which is nice, but still some swing and miss. You know he still chases the sliders off the plate.

[00:12:15] The low and away stuff seems to get to him. So it's a little bit of a mixed bag. I am happy that he is hitting a little bit better out of the gate. Some of the underlying numbers also do suggest that he is due for some positive regression. But there's a lot of that approach that doesn't look that different. I like how you said that. I'll start in the simplest approach. Even what you're getting with Julio right now is still very, very valuable. He's right now on pace to have a five-win season.

[00:12:46] That is very valuable as a center fielder. He's on pace right now to have a 2020 season and play gold glove defense in center field. Let's try not to overlook that to start. But I also know people are going to say, well, we hold Julio to a much higher bar. And I think that's ultimately where this comes back to. Where the people or our listeners, including us as well, as you go and progress throughout seasons,

[00:13:15] you raise your expectations for someone like Julio who has the talent he does and has the contract that he does that you're expecting to see that year-over-year improvement. Have we seen that? Not really. No. It's been pretty much the same Julio now that we've seen through three full seasons and one month. It's incredibly streaky. When he's hot, he's hot. When he's not, he's not. The chase problems are still there. It looks the exact same. The savant numbers back it up.

[00:13:45] It's pretty much the same. The strikeout numbers are a little bit lower. The, or sorry, the strikeout numbers are a little bit better. The chase numbers are about the same as they are. It looks, it just kind of looks like Julio. Like that's what it is. So can you get worried really if it's just what Julio's always done? That's why I don't really feel worried at this point because we're just, we're watching Julio right now.

[00:14:12] He's not outlier bad right now. He's just pretty much just being himself. Look, this is the reputation he has now garnered for himself. He's a slow starter because when it happens four years in a row, it's, it's just the narrative. Unfortunately, that's a trend. When it happens once, maybe twice, it can be fluky at times or just small sample sizes at times. It happens four years in a row. That's a real trend.

[00:14:41] Julio Rodriguez is a slow starter and there's really no ifs, ands, or buts about it. But he's also set to make a little over 20 million bucks this year. And to your point, him being worth the contract and him still being on pace to have a really valuable year. What everybody says is one war is worth about $8 million. If you want to try to monetize a win above replacement for a player or multiple.

[00:15:04] So if Julio Rodriguez was going to put up three wins this year, a three war, he'd be making his money and he'd be worth the contract. Because if he puts up three war, he'd essentially be worth $24 million. But he's on pace for five. So he's, like, again, if people are going to get mad about the contract, he's worth the contract. There's no question about that because he is playing to that level. But to your point, it's people have the expectation that Julio is going to be Bobby Witt Jr.

[00:15:34] And I understand it. And those are Julio's expectations. But as of right now, offensively, that's just not what he's been. Now, he could snap his fingers and have a 1,200 OPS in the month of May because he's prone to do that at times. But he has not consistently put together months after months after months with a 900 plus OPS or something like that since his rookie year. So, again, I think Julio is playing fine.

[00:16:03] And I think to your point, we're watching Julio Rodriguez. He is just not lighting the world on fire as we speak. One of the most important things here and a question I want everyone listening to ask themselves when they want to leave us a comment about Julio and say, why isn't Julio doing well? Like, Julio needs to be moved down in the lineup, etc., etc., etc. Is Julio making the team worse? My answer is no. I think he's making them better.

[00:16:27] I think they're way better off with him right where he is in the lineup than being somewhere else and have all the repercussions that come along with it. Is that fair? Well, of course he's making the team better. Even if Julio was going to hit 100 with a 600 OPS all season, he would still put up three wins just from his defense. So, of course, he makes the team better. He is one of the best defensive center fielders in baseball. That's valuable.

[00:16:52] That is being an elite defender at a primary position and a position of incredibly high defensive value. And there you make the point for me. He has so many tools that even if the bat won't live up to the expectations that he's essentially set by winning rookie of the year and having for what was the most part a complete season, hasn't been able to achieve that since that point, he's still going to have value.

[00:17:20] Even if he's going to have these incredible hot and cold streaks. So that's why I just can't sit here and get all that worried about it. Because he's not doing something he hasn't already done before. And once we see these things three, four times, like, you know me, I'm pretty level-headed at this point when it comes to seeing some players through these waves and the team through these waves as well. Like, if it's standard, then that's just what it's going to be. And I can promise people this. He will get hot at some point this year.

[00:17:50] I can't promise it's going to be tomorrow. I can't promise it's going to be in May. I can't promise when it's going to be. But along with Julio always being a slow starter, he's never had a season in his career where he doesn't get really hot for somewhat of an extended stretch. So you know it's coming at some point. He's not going to hit $1.90 all year. But we know he's a streaky player. He's proved that. But when he gets hot, he can be the hottest player in baseball and carry an offense for weeks at a time. Yeah. I think that's well said.

[00:18:20] My final message, I wouldn't worry too much about this at all. You can be frustrated he strikes out, but I'll tell you, you're probably going to be frustrated his entire career then. Because that's just going to be who he is. By the way, in terms of strikeouts, yeah, he might swing and miss a little bit. He's about league average when it comes to strikeouts right now. Yeah. Again, we are acknowledging he is not hitting like Bobby Witt Jr. But until he proves otherwise offensively, that may just not be his profile.

[00:18:50] It just might not. But he's going to provide value in other places. So, yeah, I think that's a good way to assess his first month. And we'll see what he does from here. We know he's going to get hot at some point. We just don't know when exactly that'll be or for how long exactly that'll be. Because we know it can be for a few weeks. We've also seen it be for five months. So I think we'll see. The last thing I want to say, circling back to Monday's podcast, which if you haven't listened to, you should. We were fired up, I think, for every good reason. Logan Evans had his debut on Sunday. He was awesome.

[00:19:19] We talked about that at full length if you want to go check that out. And we talked about how I got to meet a bunch of his closest friends from growing up on Sunday. And how, you know, they're no different than any other group of guys who's a bunch of sports fans who love to dunk on each other and trash talk each other. Which is great. Actually, I don't even know if I provided that much context. They'll talk about a variety of topics is what they were kind of mentioning.

[00:19:44] But since they're all from Michigan, there is a lot of Michigan and Michigan State banner that goes back and forth between those guys. Because it's a pretty divided group on who's for Sparty and who's for Michigan, who's for the maize and blue. But anyway, what I was going to get back to is along with that, Logan posts his debut thank you post on Instagram. He said, hey, like, this was awesome. Thanks to the Mariners. Thanks to all my friends and family for coming out. This was sick.

[00:20:14] You guys are awesome. Which he should. Like, you know, most players post something like that after a debut. And they deserve to. Logan absolutely deserved to. Anyway, I'm rambling. He makes the post. And his buddy Cam, who I think we mentioned on Monday, we said was likely the contrarian of the group, decides to take it upon himself to drop a comment on Logan's post where he said, thanks to everybody for coming out.

[00:20:41] His buddy Cam says, I wouldn't miss any of it. Just like Augustine Ramirez in his first at bat. Which for those who didn't pick that up, Augustine Ramirez in that first inning took Logan deep. Hit a tank. It was a tank. Yeah, it was a tank. And his buddy let him know about it. Which, speaking of, I did get a DM from his buddy Cam today. Because I think almost everybody there checked out the podcast for Monday.

[00:21:09] And I told all his friends we'd give him a shout out on Monday's pod. And he said, hey, I just want you to know in terms of the contrarian talk, sometimes it's me. Sometimes it's actually Logan. But it's usually the two of us that stir it up. So there's your answer. Oh, there we go. It's good. We solved our mystery. We did. Like I said, I'll just say it one more time. That was really cool to be a part of. Just because, again, Logan Evans is absolutely our guy. And we're huge fans of him. And we are so thrilled for all the success he's having.

[00:21:37] But we're on the smallest of scales and pedestals when you talk about his family and friends that have known him his whole life. And being there. And to see them as fired up for him as they were. Awesome. So I just wanted to say that. Yeah. Pretty cool. All right. We're going to get to Doug Glanville in just a minute. Let's take a quick pause. We're going to talk to you about our friends over at Pagatch's Pub 85. It's an awesome spot to go hang out. You guys, if you want to go watch some games, if you want to just plan a time with your friends and want to casually play some pool or some darts and have some drinks, it's an awesome spot to do that.

[00:22:06] And if you go during happy hour, you can get happy hour drinks for three and four bucks. And it's from 2 to 6 p.m. on Monday through Friday. Those are awesome deals. So all of that, if you want an awesome time with your friends, is over at Pagatch's Pub 85 in Kirkland. It was good getting Doug Glanville on from a different, more national perspective. One thing you'll pick up on, and I don't know why this didn't click in my mind, Lyle. So him and friend of the pod, Jason Stark, host a podcast together.

[00:22:33] If you're familiar with the podcast, you would look at the name and you'd say, oh, duh. Yes, they host a podcast together because it's their two last names combined together. Starkville. I did not realize that until we had him on. I didn't even realize that. I'm realizing it right now. I thought it was just based on Jason Stark. And it was something of his that he created saying, like, this is my world brain of thoughts inside the head of Jason Stark.

[00:23:02] I didn't even pick up that it was the Glanville part of the last name. And they have a, we'll talk about it with Doug, but they have a long history together, which is fantastic. It's a really interesting story. Doug's a really interesting dude himself. I mean, he's an Ivy League, former Ivy League first round pick in Major League Baseball. There are not many of those to go around. So we share some stories from that. We talk about the start of the Mariners season as well. It's good to get a new voice here on the podcast.

[00:23:29] We've gotten a lot of recurring guests recently. Now that, you know, we're two and a half, almost two and a half years in Lyle. But to get someone on for the first time is always pretty cool. Yeah, it was great. Doug was awesome. And he has carved out an awesome career for himself in media, post-playing. He does a ton of other stuff too. Like you said, really smart guy. And yeah, we had a blast talking to him. So we're looking forward to having you guys listen to this one. We'll keep you guys any longer. Let's get you to the interview with Doug Glanville.

[00:23:59] All right, we've got Doug Glanville on with us. You can catch him on Sunday Night Baseball broadcasts on ESPN Radio. You can catch him on Starkville every single week with Jason Stark on The Athletic. You can also check out his Substack page. Glanville, where he's writing a bunch of stuff now. Doug, thanks so much for coming on. We really appreciate it. Yeah, it's great to be on, man. I mean, it was a pleasure to meet you. I think we did the Mariner game last year and we start talking. And yes, I'm glad to get a chance to finally come on.

[00:24:29] Do you ever sit and think about how rare your company is in terms of Ivy League to Major League Baseball? I mean, the list of company that you're in is not long. You know, it's weird. I thought about that to some degree when Will Venable got called up. And that was a moment where I said, oh, wait a minute. You know, this is a different path. I certainly had teammates that were drafted from Penn. I had a lot of opponents I saw along the way.

[00:24:58] So I kind of thought, yeah, there's a couple guys that have been in there. Steve Adkins is a Penn pitcher who gave up Cecil Fielder's 50th home run when there was a drought of 50 home run hitters. So I'm sure he doesn't want to be known for that. But I do remember, okay, he's in the league. So, yeah, it's not a big group. And I take pride in it in some ways because, you know, at first you're a little dismissed. Like, oh, the Ivy League, they can't play baseball. They play in the Northeast and, you know, all that.

[00:25:28] And it was nice to kind of carry the banner because we all kind of look out for each other, even though during the college years we're big-time rivals. But after you get out of there, you kind of look out for each other. Is there, like, when you go into a Major League Baseball clubhouse, do you sort of – and, like, this is sort of, like, an elitist way to think about things. But, I mean, they are the Ivy League, so there are a lot of things, I'd say, Doug, that are a step above.

[00:25:55] It's like when you step into a clubhouse, is it different for you than it was for you and some of the other Ivy League players than for a lot of these other guys? And I mean that, obviously, for all the other players in the most respectful way possible. But, like, you guys did have, you know, significantly more rigorous things to worry about while you were at school and while you were drafted. And, like, you went there for a reason, like, if you get what I'm saying. Yeah, you know, I found it to be – I mean, I guess the way I looked at it is growing up in the town –

[00:26:25] I grew up in Teaneck, New Jersey, very diverse town, a lot of different backgrounds, perspectives. And it taught me a lot about just, like, the recognition that you can learn from everybody and anybody. So, yeah, maybe I knew a lot about Laplace transformations and systems engineering, but I also learned about, like, alpaca farming from Billy Wagner. You know, like, I was always curious. And so, like, when I went to Puerto Rico, for example, in Winter Ball, I was like, hey, here's a chance to learn more Spanish.

[00:26:53] You know, so I saw the big leagues or just the journey to the big leagues as really opportunity to learn from a lot of people, no matter what their sort of SAT score said, supposedly. I thought it was really more important that everybody has something to offer. And there's many, many kinds of intelligence. And so I just appreciated that by being exposed to people from really all over the world. Who did you learn from the most? Well, I'd say there's a lot of mentors along the way.

[00:27:23] Different moments, different times where I needed something and I got it. Whether it's, like, Jimmy Pearsall, very tough, tough coach. We were, like, oil and water at first, but then we became really connected off of the love of center field and love of defense. Someone like Sandy Olimar Sr., who was all about thinking about base running and the scoreboard. And, you know, I think of someone like Tom Gamboa, who brought me to Winter Bowl in Puerto Rico, which was a transformational experience for me that really gave me that major league confidence and then ultimately that opportunity.

[00:27:54] And then along the way, just great coaches from Dusty Baker to Terry Francona, Dave Trumbly. I had guys so many different levels. And there's an element of looking back and realizing some of the lessons that you didn't always grasp at the moment, but it was an important one. And with baseball, you have to have that because there's so many games, so much failure, so much up and down to the game, that at the time when you're in it, it's hard to see. You're kind of like, oh, what's going on here?

[00:28:23] But then you kind of step back and realize the lessons that really stuck with you and helped you shape you as a ballplayer. So, but I thank a lot of people. I even thank my detractors. My AAA manager and I were like, you know, oil and water would be an understatement. And, you know, he wasn't a fan. And, you know, I had to kind of weather that for a year and a half. And in the end, I still am grateful for that experience because it really showed me like, no, I'm going to really fight for this.

[00:28:49] And you have detractors and you got to still go to the mat believing in your ability. So, so I think it's a wide range and baseball exposes you to so much because there's so many games and you have to have so much patience for those lessons. Okay. Speaking of people that you got to learn from, I know one of the things you've done in your career is you wrote a book. And part of that was getting to talk to some of the stars throughout the game and telling your stories about picking their brains and learning from them

[00:29:18] and getting their perspective on not just baseball, but life in general. So without you spoiling everything you talked about in the book, was it just a little bit different talking to those guys and getting their outlooks on life in baseball than maybe it was, you know, just some of the other guys that played across the league? Well, I think it evolved over time because there's a period of time where, first of all, you get there and you're like, well, maybe I could be one of these stars. You know, you don't know how it's going to play out.

[00:29:48] But I found that more of the experienced guys was the big difference, whether they were a superstar, all-star or not. I found like there was a lot of guys that had done it before, Sean Dunstan. I used to love Sean Dunstan and Mark Grace, the baseball, two different planets they came from. But yet they had a certain love for the game and they loved to discuss it and debate it. And, you know, they taught little things like, you know, umpires and knowing the different kinds of umpires or who was behind home plate.

[00:30:16] Or I remember Sean Dunstan hit a pop-up in spring training and I was looking up at the ball and then I looked down, he was at second base. I was like, wow, these guys like play hard up here. You know, it was important to get those kinds of lessons as well. And sure, you know, I played with, you know, great players that, you know, Sammy Sosa, Scott Rowland, Kurt Schilling, you know, sort of the stars of it. A-Rod and the entire Texas Rangers was loaded with great offensive players.

[00:30:44] You know, those guys, you watch how they worked and you paid attention to how they produced every single day. And those are important to something you want to add to your game. So you never stop learning. That was the beauty. I mean, I retired at 34, turning 35, and I still felt like, oh yeah, I picked up something new every day. So Doug, that book is among some of the many number of things you've done post-playing career. And like you said, you retired and you're mid-30s. So you had a lot of life left.

[00:31:14] You had a lot of things you kind of gone to explore and try out. And it feels like you've gone and you've tried most of them. How has your sort of vision for a player post-career and what you wanted to do evolved over time? Well, I'll tell you, it consistently evolved. I didn't really know. I didn't have like a map, like here's my goal. I'm going to be a manager one day. I tend not to think that way. I just kind of say, okay, this is, oh, this is cool. Let me try this.

[00:31:42] And follow those curiosities. There's no doubt that I had an affinity, you know, I guess for the relationships with the media. You know, I always was drawn into the knowledge of writers and knowledge of the historical information. Jason Starks of the world, right? And I think from there, I spent a lot of time figuring out like how I would communicate the game. And my big moment was really when the Mitchell Report broke about steroids and baseball and all the PEDs.

[00:32:11] And I saw the coverage that I found was missing some depth to it because I understood the name calling and name naming part of it and the frustration. But there was a nuance about, well, why do players take steroids in the first place? That's like, why don't we dive into that? And I started writing. And I think that broke through in terms of my moment of being a writer and having unique perspectives because I was in the Players Association as a union rep for the teams.

[00:32:37] But I also was a player and I was around players that ultimately were exposed in the Mitchell Report. So I think that, you know, all around you was swirling opportunity. Opportunity as a ball player, whether it's, you know, endorsements, all these deals. But yeah, you might make enough money to do other things or to not do other things. But I found it to be intriguing that it opened up so many different doors. And so I enjoyed it. And then so the media just kind of happened.

[00:33:06] After I started writing, I started getting noticed. And then it kind of led to an interview at ESPN. And sort of from there, I just kept going, really. I have to ask, because you're on the Starkville podcast. You work with Jason Stark. Jason Stark's been on the show. He's been very nice to us, very supportive of us. Did he ever interview you in a clubhouse? Oh, definitely. And I became his quote master when it came to the funny – well, let me back up a little bit.

[00:33:33] I was a fan of his in Philadelphia when I was in college. And he wrote this great column, kind of like the Wild Pitches column for the Philadelphia Inquirer. So I read that all the time when I was in school. So when I got – you know, years later when I'm traded to the Phillies and I walk in the clubhouse and there's Jason Stark, I was like, oh, I'm a fan of yours, actually. And he was surprised I knew all his stuff. So he started going to me for quotes on all his, like, wacky stuff. And that led to just a great relationship.

[00:34:03] Then we both were at ESPN. We both ended up at The Athletic. And then we pitched a podcast. And the podcast pitch that we sent to The Athletic was basically – we weren't even prepared. We just said, we're going to do a typical phone call between us and we're just going to talk. And we had those guys laughing because we just – that's what we do. We love minutia and talking about wild stuff. So I think that was the moment of feeling like, you know, I have now a mentor in my second career.

[00:34:32] And I felt like that was a real asset. What was the wackiest thing he interviewed you on? Where, like, you're sitting there and you're like, what? Yeah. I mean, I know I was always open to what. I love that what. I had a great one. Well, one was Ozzy Osbourne sang the seventh inning stretch in Chicago. And I don't know what key it was in. I don't know what language it was in. But I kind of thought it was like, you know, the call of the wild.

[00:35:01] And maybe there was like crop markings, you know, and crop circles forming. I think the planets might have changed rotation. It was so bad, but it was so good for – you know, so we had a lot of fun talking about that. And then I think the thing that actually carried the longest was, you know, I played with Kurt Schilling a long time in Philly. And he got traded to the Diamondbacks. And then we go to Arizona and play against him.

[00:35:28] And I hit two home runs off him in like back-to-back at bats, which was wild. But I knew he had like a high fastball, four-seamer. So I hit two home runs off him. And after the game, Jason Stark, of course, wants to know like – because it was a rare feat. Only like three guys had done it before or whatever. And it was like Bonds, Piazza, Griffey or some Hall of Famers, right? And then there I was. So they asked me about it. Jason asked me about it.

[00:35:56] And I said I was avenging the death of my character in this game called EverQuest, which was like an online Dungeons & Dragons, because I believe Kurt got my character killed when we went out to go on an adventure one time. So that was my official quote for hitting two home runs off of Curt Schilling. I was avenging the death of my character in a video game. And it like equivalently went viral. And we ended up on the front cover of Baseball Weekly. Sony Studios brought us into the game.

[00:36:25] They made us like virtual characters. We had a duel. And this thing went on for weeks and weeks and weeks. I mean, it was a gift that kept on giving. And that column was really fun. And so we just kept going back. I think Jason did like two more follow-up column. So that was just fun. And that's what I love about it. It's like baseball touching all these aspects of life in fun ways. And Jason uncovers it. And I got to be part of it.

[00:36:52] How uncommon was it back then for players to give answers like that? Because now you kind of hear players let their personalities come through interviews a little bit more. And they want to let fans and people know a little bit more about who they are. But tell me if I'm wrong. I feel like back when you were playing, you heard a lot less of that. So how uncommon was it to get an answer like you gave? Yeah, it was pretty uncommon. I think it was just because that's part of the reason it kind of spread like it did. I mean, I even went – I was on This Week in Baseball. I hosted.

[00:37:19] I mean, you know, I just remember like all these things that sort of led up to it. And then we, you know, we had a radio tour. So it was unique. And I think the gaming industry was kind of blowing up on the scene. So it helped that the timing was right just to talk about like these online platforms. And EverQuest was one of the first really mainstream huge online subscription ones that had this persistent world.

[00:37:44] So I think that was part of the reason why it exploded outside of just the uniqueness of, you know, just having fun. Like, okay, yeah, I can tell you. I was looking for a fastball. I tucked my shoulder in and then I put a good swing on it. We hear that all the time. So I was like, yeah, everybody knows that answer. So let me just have some fun with this, you know. So that's cool. Before we get to the Mariners, Doug, I'm curious. What do you feel like has allowed players to show a little bit more personality now?

[00:38:12] I say it's the youth movement, you know, which is always part of it, right? Where does the energy come from? And each generation comes and brings something different. When Jimmy Rollins came up when I was kind of a veteran, I called him Rookie 2.0 because he just had a different belief system about himself, right? And he was like, oh, I'm here and I can just be myself. Whereas when I came up, it was like, be quiet, like, you know, let the veteran, you know, there was more like, you know, be seen, not heard. And Jimmy started that.

[00:38:42] So I feel like that kind of kept going. Whether it's Fernando Tatis Jr., guys that like, I'm here and I'm part of this team and you're not going to like send me to the minors just because of politics. I'm going to stay here because I'm going to contribute. And then all these megastars just came on the scene that were 25 and under, right? So I do think that is part of it, that just the energy, which you feed off even as a veteran, that that's exciting and it's relatable to a new fan base.

[00:39:10] And as a result, it's like lightning in a bottle. But there have been youth movements before, right? Where there's been a wave of young superstar level players to come up in baseball throughout the decades. But now is the now is the one that's made an impact. So is it more along the lines because you mentioned Rollins? It's like, OK, well, we've had a few of them. And for each class of youth that comes up, each is a little bit more forgiving to the actions of the class that comes up next to them.

[00:39:40] Yeah, maybe it's short memories. There could be short memories. It's social media. You know, the next on to the next. I think you get to amplify and put things out and it goes viral. Then it's gone. You reset. That it's a very different time when you talk about the way information is spread out there and what gets popular, showing your personality.

[00:40:00] I think the pandemic did a lot in that regard because we were like, you know, inside and people shot videos and they were just like talking about other things that it wasn't just stick to sports. You got to see that, you know, Simone Biles is showing her workout routine in her house or whatever. I thought that opened up a lot of ways that, oh, these athletes can talk about these other things. They don't have to be political or whatever. I think that was a big aspect.

[00:40:26] It's something I used in my class at UConn just talking about what happened when sports stopped and how the athletes re-engaged the audience. That to me is still going to a certain degree because now athletes are involved in a lot of things. You're representing NIL. You're representing brands and, you know, you're seeing a lot of sides to athletes that you didn't really see before. And now with all of that, you can watch Bryce Harper make an espresso in his house. It's great. You can watch him make an espresso. Ian Happ have like a coffee shop or whatever. You know, you can do it all.

[00:40:56] Mike Trout, like do the weather. Yeah. It's really cool. My last question for you before we get to a little bit of Mariner's talk is what got you back into actually putting pen to paper again in general? Because now you're doing a sub stack page along with all the other things that keep you busy these days titled Glanville. So if people want to check that out, they absolutely should. And for those who may not know, like what motivated you to start writing again rather than just using your voice talking on podcasts or on Sunday Night Baseball?

[00:41:26] Well, for starters, that's how I got into sports media as a writer. I wrote New York Times at articles and it was organic. I was writing about the Mitchell Report and it sort of went and then I kept writing. And the thing is, I never really stopped. I think the difference now is it's centralized. It's so hard today to become like a traditional columnist. Like, oh, you know, not a lot of publications are going to go to you and go to you each week on every topic. It just doesn't happen anymore.

[00:41:55] Not unless you're like the elite, like these writers I have a great respect for. It's hard for me to do that. So I've pitched a lot of places and I get one piece here or one piece there. And I realize like people don't realize I've been still writing. And here, so what do I do? I wanted to create a place that was centralized that not only for fans to read, but to show that I'm a fan. I'm like, I want to hear from the fans. I want to have this as an exchange. I want to enjoy just like laughing about the game and make it reciprocal.

[00:42:24] That's what I found about writing that surprised me the most. Like, wow, this is truly a reciprocal experience. And within that, I wanted it to be a place that's comfortable and people could just sort of engage on. So that's really what got me motivated because I definitely tried a lot of other things. And I realized that the idea of being a columnist at the New York Times or, you know, I did have that at one point. But it was just, it's so hard to do. There's so many angles and platforms to go to now.

[00:42:53] So I thought it would be good to centralize it. And I've loved it. It's been so fun to just write. I have a new piece coming out today. And it's about the, when you go on the road, how a lot of players have aliases. So I just want to talk about that. Like just random stuff that a lot of publications say, nah, that's not, yeah, I don't want that. I'm like, okay, well, so, but yeah, it's called Welcome to Glanville. Glanville's on the baseball. And it's really a fan space just as much as it is a writing space.

[00:43:22] Did you have an alias on the road? I didn't. That's why I wrote the article. I did not have one. And I, I, it was intentional. And I'm not saying there, there wasn't drawbacks and there weren't times I was like, well, maybe I should rethink this. But I think part of what I'm writing about is the fact that I chose not to, and I just stuck it out. And there was moments where it didn't go well. But for the most part, you know, I found that to be something I ended up taking pride with. And was it something as simple as just ordering a pizza?

[00:43:52] Well, back, you know, back then, I, you know, didn't have Uber Eats and all these things. So I think for me, you know, privacy, right? Fans calling up to the room. That was sometimes a problem. And, and I, you know, you definitely had moments like those, but I felt most, you know, the vast, vast majority of experience were super positive with fans. So I just, I said, let me just do it. Let me just see what happens. And I felt like it was fine.

[00:44:17] Shifting gears to talk a little bit about the Mariners here, Doug, from, from your view, covering this game nationally, talking about all the teams around the league. What have you seen so far from the Mariners so far in this season? You know, just trying to really get established as that identity. I mean, it's like all teams are dealing with that to a certain degree early on. And, you know, kind of under new management to a, you know, so to speak, when Scott service at the home for so long.

[00:44:44] I see a team that's going to pitch, you know, I mean, you know, I think it would be elite in the end, whether you have one or two Luis Castillos, it doesn't matter. You know, I think that's, that's fun. And, you know, they, there's always been questions about, you know, whether the offense does what it's going to do. And Cal Raleigh, you know, doing his thing, right? Dumping the ball over the fence. You know, one of the elite offensive catchers in the game and really took a lot of pride in improving on his defensive side to be, you know, two-way kind of catcher.

[00:45:13] And so, but I see them as a run prevention type of style team that could really do it. I mean, I, the series we did, Mariners-Mets, I was like, I think they like shut them out. They just kept throwing up zero, right? So that's who they can be. And then the key for me is their ability to not only, you almost have to look at the Tigers last year. The Tigers were a team that figured out we could pitch, we could prevent runs.

[00:45:41] And we're not going to go toe-to-toe against like Otani, Betts, and Freeman because we don't have to. We just have to be situationally sound, fundamental move runners, and then get the big hit, which you can't control. But you can certainly have, you know, a good approach. And the Mariners have talent that can go with that, right? Whether it was Arena and guys that can really take a next step. So, you know, I think the Mariners are going to be tough.

[00:46:10] And to me, the key, the cherry on top, make that move at the trade deadline. You know, get, if you need the bat, get it. And then they could be a huge difference maker. Well, speaking of that, if they decide to make a move like that to try and put themselves over the top, they'd obviously be doing it in an American League that feels really wide open. I mean, I'll just throw this back to you. Is this as open in American League as you can remember? Because it does not feel like there's one team ahead of the pack right now.

[00:46:40] I think it is. I mean, it's fun, though. It's fun to see like, wait a minute, you know, Angels are better. You know, you just feel like, okay, teams have made improvements and, you know, there's some parity, but in a good way. You know, it's like, all right, Baltimore probably could get better. They're missing some pitching. You know, you kind of look at it and you see like, oh, this guy gets healthy. All these little factors that can turn into like a streak for some team. And they're all capable of it. Boston, you know, Toronto, Yankees. I mean, the East is a beast.

[00:47:09] But, you know, you go look where the Mariners are and you're saying, okay, well, what's Houston going to do? I just saw Houston on Sunday. So I enjoy it. And you see teams like the A's or Astros like Cam Smith saying, let's just call these young guys up. You know, let's just throw them in the fire and see what happens. And that's exciting. And so, you know, I feel like the Mariners are going to be part of that mix. But you got to look at the fact that they can just shut you down.

[00:47:37] And when they get into that flow, it's hard to score runs off them. Do you think we're going to reach some sort of point where there's going to need to be a market correction, whether it be in the offseason or whether it be at the trade deadline? Because of the expanded playoffs, more teams feel like they're in a given race in a given season. The American League this year is the ultimate example of that. If 14 teams feel like they have a chance to grab one of the seven wildcard spots, teams are still going to need to trade for players and they're still going to need to improve.

[00:48:06] How are these teams going to actually have some action at the deadline and then subsequently in the offseason have some action as well? Because it does lead to sort of less trades, less action. And less action, I'd say, for baseball is not a good thing. You know, I see it this way. I think they look at it as like cooperative competition. I see win-win trades. Because you have buyers and sellers and there's just less sellers now. I mean, everybody's in it. They're closer.

[00:48:34] So let's say you have five sellers, four sellers, and everybody else is buying. Then you have to look at the teams and say, all right, I'll give you a catcher. You give me a shortstop. You know, so you got to go for these more win-win trades where you're like getting pieces that fit you and have to give a piece that helps someone else. Because there's just not enough sellers. And they're probably going to be overpriced or whatever it is. So I think that is flushing out over the last, you know, couple of years once wildcard got even more expanded.

[00:49:03] And I see that as good that fan bases feel like their team's in it. And I think the other factor is, are you a team that's saying, are we going to give up the farm for like just to get in? Right? Like the Mariners needed to do that a few years ago saying, we got to just get in. We got to break this. And then you got to sell what you got to sell just to kind of shift the narrative. But once you're kind of established, you kind of feel like, all right, I want to give up my top prospect just to kind of get in.

[00:49:30] Whether it's like Yankees or bust or whatever team is in that mentality. So within the winners and the buyers, let's say, now you're getting different levels and different approaches, which I think is very compelling. I think we're going to have to get to the point where we see a team like the Mariners who are eyeing playoff contention and a team like the Orioles who are also eyeing playoff contention to just look at each other and say, hey, look, you know, we're competing against each other. But for the Orioles, our rotation stinks.

[00:49:58] For the Mariners, we'll see how it holds up throughout the rest of the season. But the lineup talent, I don't know if it makes it through six months at the clip it's at. Let's work something out. Like we're going to need to find a way to cross this bridge so there's not just these two teams having a standoff when it comes to the talent and the pieces they're holding on to. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's the tough thing if you do it in your own division, right? It's a little scary.

[00:50:23] You have to make the calculation about future present value and the fact that they might be on par. But you're making a move for a very specific reason. Can you? Yeah, I was going to say, can you relate to where Julio is at right now? Because he hit a few homers to start this year. It looked like he was going to get off to a little bit better of a start than he has in his first three seasons of the big league level. But here we sit today and he's been a little bit cold.

[00:50:53] He's some of his same issues have popped up early on in the season. And was there a point in your career where you could relate to Julio that there's a month or so in your career that you were never good in? That you felt like it was always an uphill battle to do something in at that point of the season for you? Yeah, no question. It's definitely part of it. And you feel like Julio, his talent will win out.

[00:51:20] His maturity and gaining skills and ability to adjust will win out. And we've seen that, right? We've seen him have struggles and then come on and be like, whoa. I mean, I think that, I don't know if it was a Mets game we did last year. It wasn't like 0 for 5 with five strikeouts. Like he had a really rough game. It was like his first game back. And he wanted to play on Sunday night and he was ready to go. So, you know, he's willing to fail, to succeed. And he's got, you know, high baseball IQ and endless talent.

[00:51:49] And, yeah, you want to go tape to tape, but you're going to have struggles. That's why you got the rest of your team to pick it up. He can win with his glove. He can do something else. And that's what makes him exceptional. So, but, yeah, I think certainly when the Mariners are right, he's right. And when he's at his best, you have one of the best players in the game. Do you put much stock into slow starts in general for players? I do in that if you're not, if you don't have the coverage for someone to see you through it,

[00:52:18] like you're, maybe your team is, you know, on a rebuild year, you might not ever get the shot to get out of it. So I pay a lot of attention to that. You need opportunity. You need time. You need a runway. And if you, some years you don't get it. You might be free agent. You might be whatever. Young guys are coming up. You're in trouble in those situations. If you're struggling early. So playing well early helps you stay in the lineup. You know, you kind of forget you hit 350 the first half and hit 217. You're still going to play in the second half.

[00:52:48] You might get a couple of days off. So fast starts definitely help. But the players that are committed to like a Rodriguez, you're going to get the bandwidth. How long do you like to wait to evaluate a team or a player within a season? It depends on the player's role. It depends on their role. The guys that you need to be the stalwarts of the lineup and maybe, you know, you can't, they may not be expendable. That's the challenge, contract, whatever it is.

[00:53:17] But if you just take it in a vacuum, like I can trade this guy or I have moves, you know, it depends on their role. But if they're an anchor to your offense and you don't get any offense, you got to do something. You got to, you know, bring someone up. You got to, you know, shake it up a little bit. Change your lineup. You know, you see Christian Walker with the Astros struggling. They move them down the lineup. You know, you got to, there's other ways to shake it up besides benching somebody. But you may have to shake it up. Last one I've got for you, Doug.

[00:53:45] And we like to ask some of the national people this because we always really appreciate the little bit of the 3,000 foot perspective and a little bit of a broader perspective. So I'm just curious what your take on this is. The Mariners have a successful season if they do what? I say meet the moment of how good their offense could be. I mean, it could be really good.

[00:54:09] You know, it's just everybody has to have their kind of best, you know, their best year to make it unstoppable. But they could be a good offensive team, a better offensive team, at least more consistent. And there's been strides this year. So I don't say it's like non-existent. It's like middle of the pack right now. So I see it as circling it because I'm going to say the pitching is going to pitch. Okay, I'm going to say that. And you don't take it for granted. But they got to get, you know, get that five runs across the board. They're going to be really good.

[00:54:38] And I have one last one for you too, Doug, to zoom out a little bit more than that. If you're going to make a prediction for baseball, let's say in the next decade and something major changes, what change would that be? It's probably around salary cap. I mean, and I'm not saying it like we should have it or not have it, but I think that's where the change is coming. And whether the tax rate or whatever they do or call it something else, if nothing else, that's the big war that's coming.

[00:55:09] So hopefully they can resolve it. Doug, this has been great. We've had a blast talking to you. If people don't know where to find your work, again, you can go listen to Doug on Starkville, on The Athletic. You can listen to him on Sunday Night Baseball, on ESPN Radio. You can check out his sub stack. Glanville, this is genuinely, it's been a blast. Loved meeting you last summer. Glad we got to talk baseball here for the last half hour or so and hope to do it again soon. Wow. TJ, appreciate it, man. Thank you.

[00:55:39] Well, we really hope you guys enjoyed that interview with Doug Glanville. We hope you learned a little bit about his unique journey and we enjoyed talking Mariners with him too. So always cool to have some national perspectives on the podcast, especially when somebody gets a little bit more of a 3,000 foot lens. Because all of us are so close to it every day and we're so tied in. But the national perspective is good perspective a lot of the time. And Doug's great. So again, we hope you guys enjoyed that one. We also hope to have him back in the future because he was, yeah, he was awesome.

[00:56:07] But anyway, that just about wraps up this edition of the Marine Layer Podcast. You guys know the drill. If you want to find all of our stuff, it's all over on our website, marinelayerpod.com. Go get your merch. Go consider subscribing to our Patreon. We'd love to have you. You can find our episodes there, audio and video. Everything's over there, marinelayerpod.com. And you can find us all across social media at marinelayerpod. That's TJ. I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon.