Episode 238: Mariners Claim Leody Taveras + Gary Hill Jr. (Mariners Broadcaster)

[00:00:00] Welcome to episode number 238 of the Marine Layer Podcast. We welcome on Mariners broadcaster Gary Hill Jr. He gives us an early scouting report from baseball's newest city, Sacramento. We also talk about some of the early Mariners storylines, the offense, Julio, Cal, a lot of good stuff to get into with Gary. The Mariners also have a new outfielder. They claim Leody Taveras from the Texas Rangers. We'll discuss how he fits into the Mariners roster.

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[00:01:22] And we welcome you to this episode of the MarinLayer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network, recording on Tuesday afternoon, May 6th. The Mariners do something I didn't expect them to do, Lyle. They have a new major league outfielder. They claim Laoti Tavares from the Texas Rangers. They'll take on nearly $4 million in salary. This is different. Very different. Side note on our end, I'm hyped now.

[00:01:51] We decided to record on Tuesday afternoon and not Monday after the game because usually we record these Wednesday episodes, at least the first part of it, on Monday after games. Game went too late last night on Monday night, which we can get into. So we decided, hey, we'll record a little earlier in the day on Tuesday. And I'm glad we did because five minutes before we hit record, Mariners have Lioti Tavares. Spin zone, Mariners' bad decision making on Monday night allowed a better episode. How about that?

[00:02:20] How about that? I mean, Lyle even texted me at like 10.45 last night. He's like, oh, I'm good to go. Let's do it. And I was like, easy. It's like I was looking into the future. You knew Lioti was coming? I guess so. I was a little surprised the Mariners are in the business of picking up $4 million of in-season salary. That's a first. I'm serious.

[00:02:48] When they got Victor Robles last year, how much money did they? They didn't pick up that much. It wasn't a lot. Let's see. It wasn't. And it's surprising coming from a division rival. It's surprising that they didn't, I would say, sit and wait for Lioti to potentially ask for an outright to see if he could be a free agent and go to another team and sign for the Major League minimum.

[00:03:11] Because based on how long Lioti's been in the big leagues, he gets outrighted. He passes through waivers. He could choose to elect free agency. He'd forfeit a salary. But then he's a free agent and he can go sign with anybody at the Major League minimum. But the Mariners looked at Lioti Tavares in his $3.8 million price tag and said, yeah, we want that. On waivers, we're going to reach out and we're going to claim Lioti Tavares. Here's my initial, I'd say, thought on the Mariners claiming Lioti Tavares.

[00:03:40] This tells me, I think, two things. Number one, it's not like Lioti Tavares lacks tools. If you remember him with the Rangers, he had his best season in 2023 when they went and won the World Series. He had an excellent first half of that season. He was a former top prospect. He's really toolsy. The comparison to draw to this, and it's ironic he gets claimed now because it's in the similar time zone, is Victor Robles. I'd encourage you, because we've tweeted this out on Tuesday, recording here on Tuesday. This episode's out on Wednesday.

[00:04:11] Comparing the last season samples, full big season samples that these players had with their former teams before they become Seattle Mariners. The two members are Lioti Tavares and Victor Robles. Lyle and I go on baseball, Savant, and we take a look at two samples. We look at Lioti Tavares' current season with the Texas Rangers, one which he's really, really struggled. 28% strikeout rate, 2.5% walk rate, 68 WRC+. His Savant page looks terrible.

[00:04:40] You know what else? Who else's Savant page looks exactly like that? His last full season with his former team in 2022? Victor Robles. I mean, it looks exactly the same. So, they also come to the Mariners right at the same age, too. It's interesting, Lyle. Very, very interesting. Now, the exact percentiles are not identical, but you look at the bubbles on Savant, it is not far off.

[00:05:10] Unfortunately, there's a lot of blue, meaning negative offensively, which is why they were let go by each of their former teams and why two former top prospects are now Seattle Mariners. But, the Mariners did tap into some stuff with Victor Robles last year, given it was a different regime that tapped into it. But, the new regime has proven that they've really gotten the best out of their players offensively.

[00:05:33] So, look, the floor of this is Lioti Tavares eventually being a bench bat once everybody gets healthy, Robles, Raley, etc. Fills in for the time being, and once everybody's right, he just comes off the bench, plays some defense, and runs the bases. Because the two things he can absolutely do, like Robles did in Washington, was defend, and he can run the bases. Now, if he gets help offensively, and he proves to be more than that, then great. You get a little bit more with that.

[00:06:02] But, this feels like a, for what the Mariners are running out in right field right now, this feels like a very, I don't want to say low risk, because he is owed a little bit of money. But, I will call it minimal risk for the Mariners, considering they need help in the outfield. They'll pay him this money this year, but if he stinks the next five months in Seattle, they'll just non-tender him in the offseason. Then they don't have to pay him anything in the future.

[00:06:29] Now, because they claimed him off of waivers, they assume two plus years of control on Leone Tavares. He's got two years of control after this season. I think it's, yeah. Also, similar to Robles in the sense of, look, Robles got the extension, but the Mariners decided after seeing him for a little bit of time, they wanted two more years of Robles under team control, so they gave him the small extension. Tavares just has two more years of team control after this year, period, because he hits free agency in 2028.

[00:06:56] So, he's got, right now, two and a half years, essentially, of team control. Honestly, a little bit more than that. He's a super two like George and Logan are. So, he gets four RBers, which helps him financially. But, he's got to sort of prove himself this year, because otherwise, the Mariners are just going to decide not to offer him any money, and he's going to become a free agent at this point. I do think it's an upgrade over what they currently have in right field. Like, it's not great.

[00:07:23] The Mariners' current right field situation, Ryland Thomas gets sent back down to the minors because of this. Well, that hasn't happened yet, but we assume. We assume it's going to happen, because he's now got no really where to play. He's not going to be playing out in the outfield every day. It was Ryland Thomas. It's Myles Masturboni, essentially, in right field. And, now that Dylan Moore gets reinstated today, Dylan Moore was going to be out in right field as well. I would rather have Laoti Tavares out there. Let Dylan Moore be the utility guy and play on the infield, actually, where some more injuries are,

[00:07:52] and where they probably feel more comfortable playing him, even if he might be a little bit better of an outfielder. At this point, the better fit for Dylan Moore is on the infield, as opposed to playing him in right field every day. So, you now have an everyday right fielder that, worst case scenario, like Lyles said, he runs the bases and plays some good defense in right field. Best case, he's a league average hitter and provides, actually, some value for you. Be great. Now, it's funny to say new right fielder and somewhat of a regular right fielder now for the Mariners,

[00:08:20] because it's a guy that's never played an inning in right field. Laoti Tavares has been nothing but strictly a center fielder with the Rangers. That's what he was as a prospect. That's what he's been in the big leagues. He made that huge catch robbing a home run back in the ALCS in 23 against the Astros. So, that's what he's known. But the other side of that coin is defensive runs saved has not favored him in center field the last couple of years.

[00:08:47] This is where, and we actually talk a little bit about this with Gary, unrelated. It just happened to come up in the conversation. Where defensive metrics are still so new, and it's hard to get one definitive answer on a singular player defensively these days, which is why there's a few different metrics for this stuff. Defensive run saved does not love Laoti Tavares. Right now, he's at negative two for the year. Last year, he was all the way down at negative ten.

[00:09:14] But the glass half-fold of that is he doesn't have to play center field anymore. The Mariners are obviously not moving Julio out of center field. I mean, I feel like we shouldn't even have to say that. But because of that, he'll play a new position. He has a good arm, so he can fit in right field. It's not like he has a weak arm. One more reason why it shouldn't be too tough a transition for him to move out there. But it's also a position where he won't have to cover as much ground. I'm looking forward to seeing him out there because it'll be a new experiment.

[00:09:43] He's going to have less ground to cover, so hopefully that boosts his defense up and gives him a little bit more value and say, well, he's going to be this much more valuable than another right fielder. The problem is he doesn't hit as much as other right fielders do. So that's where it's going to have to be made up. But the Mariners aren't signing him because of his bat. The rest of the bottom of the lineup, while they're producing offensively, the Mariners aren't going to ask these guys to carry the load for the offense. And that's going to be the guys at the top of the lineup

[00:10:13] that's going to continue to carry the load for the Mariners' offense. But if they do get some offensive production for him, especially just having him walk more, like the rates this year in his walks and strikeouts is terrible. And it's really attributed to his playing time going down with the Rangers. He just hadn't been playing as much before they decided to place him on waivers and let him go find some opportunity elsewhere. Again, 28% strikeout rate, 2.5% walk rate is bad. Yeah, that's got to change. But again, one more Leoti Tavares positive,

[00:10:43] as at least I wrap up my thoughts on this early on after they've made the claim. He has shown at times why he was a top prospect, not just from the really good defense. Again, maybe not the last couple of years, but he's flashed it over the course of his career thus far. And in 2023, when that entire Rangers lineup was on fire in the first half of the year, which propelled them to moving so far ahead of the rest of the pack for a while in the West, that, you know, despite a tough second half, it still allowed them to get into the playoffs, right?

[00:11:12] And then they propelled themselves to the World Series in 23. That first half for Leoti Tavares in 23 hit 295, slugged 473, 812 OPS, hit 10 bombs. And there were a lot of Rangers fans out there that thought he should have been in the All-Star game that year over, well, Julio. Yeah. Now Julio still got in. It was in Seattle and, and he kind of turned it on right at the tail end of the end of that first half. And look, the,

[00:11:40] the being in Seattle thing I'm sure helped Julio get in. But point being, Leoti Tavares has shown what he can be offensively. He hasn't shown it consistently, but he did it for a three month stretch back in 23. Even if you're not going to get that in Seattle, maybe the Mariners and Kevin Seitzer and whoever else Edgar can tap into some of that. Let's talk about a couple of things from the Mariners game one and Sacramento. I want to start with Bryce as we see another start where he continues to struggle.

[00:12:09] My main takeaway when watching Bryce is he doesn't, I don't think he feels comfortable with his pitches yet. I think there have been a combination of things that has perhaps dented the confidence of Bryce Miller a little bit, whether it be his sore shoulder, not trusting that he can hold the velocity, whether it be his back that locked up on him last week, which I can imagine throws all sorts of mechanics off when you don't have as much mobility with your back. I saw Brady Farkas friend of the podcast tweeting about this last night when he was watching Bryce.

[00:12:40] He's like, it just doesn't look right. And then you watch the sequencing of pitches. Bryce keeps falling behind. The off-speed pitches are spraying all around. It seems pretty clear that Bryce is not comfortable up there on the mound and he's not really, it doesn't feel like trusting his stuff as much. The concerning thing here is for a guy that was top 10 in the league in walks per nine last year in Bryce Miller, he's now in the bottom 10 percentile. He's walking everybody, which is not what Bryce Miller does. He's got really,

[00:13:09] really good command when he's right. So between the high volume of walks and just not really having an out pitch right now, it's fair to wonder what's going on a little bit here. And you hope it's not something physical. You hope it's not injury related. I don't think it is, at least nothing serious because he continues to make every start, but something just isn't clicking. It's hard for anybody to almost put their finger on it. It was like you were saying, something just doesn't look right.

[00:13:36] And clearly it's not injury related because he continues to pitch. Despite some little nagging things that he's had to battle through the back, the shoulder, et cetera. But when Bryce Miller's on, he's got such an elite fastball. His splitter is arguably his best pitch at this point. And we're not seeing any of that really flash at a high level right now. Everything just looks a little bit out of whack. Bryce was also down the second half of last year among the most durable.

[00:14:04] He was the most consistent pitching deep into games. He's not been anywhere close to as efficient this year. Just, he was sitting at, he was in the mid nineties before he gets pulled after the fourth inning, after the fourth inning yet on, on Monday, which is the antithesis of what we saw. He's not being efficient. It's not generating as much swing and miss. He only had one strikeout last night. That's really odd. Not, not great to see. And it didn't help out a Mariner's bullpen. Um, um, that had to cover extra innings as well. Yeah. I'm,

[00:14:34] I'm hoping the best for Emerson Hancock tonight, but we know Emerson likes to pitch to contact and that ballpark is, it's not Coors field, but it's close when it comes to offensive production. Um, so it didn't, Bryce was not, yeah, it was not helping out the Mariners case for this entire series is they're going to have to try and tie the series tonight and win it on Wednesday. It was not a good start for that pitching staff. Well, Sacramento's top five in the league in park factor for hitters, right? Yeah,

[00:15:03] it is small sample size, but yes, it is. It's a PCL park. So of course they're going to be a score some runs there. Right? Yeah. So you hope Bryce can figure this out. The only other thing I wonder with him, and I hope this is not the case either is if the career high and innings pitch last year is having some carryover effect. That's the only other thing I can really think of. I hope not. It could. We,

[00:15:28] and we see the other three guys who set career high highs and innings last year. What's happened? Logan's hurt. Kirby was hurt to start the season with a sore shoulder and Bryce is struggling. The other three, Brian Wu, as we talked about, since he started the year injured last year, it will, it was close, but it wasn't like blowing away your career high innings total. So yeah, he looks a little bit more fresh to start the season. Those other guys though.

[00:15:58] Yeah, that's not great. This is what we talk about with pitching regression and injury regression. It doesn't have to be specifically IL. It can be all sorts of other factors when it comes to pitchers, just not landing as much when they do something they've never done before. And every guy bounces back differently. Yeah. Last thing. Do we want to spend a minute or two here on what happened in the 11th inning? Because again, like we, we've talked about a bit in the last couple of shows,

[00:16:26] how we've really started to see a lot of the positive of Dan Wilson and what he does in that clubhouse and the player buy-in. And we've seen a lot of it. And it's a, it is a reason. Undoubtedly, the Mariners are winning games right now in our first place in the American league West. But this is the side of things that look, there are multiple sides to argue with how this inning unfolded, but this is the side of things where, you know, it feels like sometimes things get away from him a bit.

[00:16:55] Yeah. Cause it, cause it just doesn't make a whole ton of sense how that inning unfolded. I'm going to say just to start off, it doesn't help that Gabe Spire is not available period. And you don't have an ultimate leverage reliever to go to in that spot. Cause Dan has made it clear. He likes saving his leverage guys for when he has a lead. That's his strategy. Andres Munoz, who we were planning to talk about today until all the other stuff happened, has only pitched in the ninth inning this year and extra innings. That's it.

[00:17:24] Dan feels comfortable when his leverage guys are pitching with a lead. So you take a step down in quality of arm on the mound to start, but then you're right. Then the strategy comes in where you decide that you are intentionally, walking, not one, but two guys in front of Jacob Wilson, instead of just pitching to JJ Bleday, who's not been as good as Jacob Wilson this year. The rationale was you're trying to get a ground ball up, up the middle with Jacob Wilson, who hits a ton of ground balls, but then the infield plays up and you don't give yourself an opportunity to

[00:17:53] turn a double play despite there being one out. It doesn't feel like it was a great process. And I will say, Dan Wilson, after the game said, I messed up. That wasn't right. Didn't make the, didn't make the correct decision on that. And clearly as Jacob Wilson walked them off, but, um, do, would I say that like Bleday would be a slam dunk double play? No, it's not, it's not this clear cut thing. It, it would be preferred to face JJ Bleday though.

[00:18:22] It's just the fact that Bleday is so much worse against righties than lefties, which is why I would have faced Bleday. Cause you already put one runner on first that sets up the double play, even though it's first and third rather than bases loaded. So it would set up the double play. And then you can pitch to Bleday instead again, cause they walk somebody before Bleday. So if you put Bleday into the batter's box, you can have a double play set up with a guy that's way worse against righties,

[00:18:52] or you just get one out and then you play the infield back facing Jacob Wilson, who, by the way, for those who don't know, and those who haven't paid attention early on, obviously he was a high draft pick, good prospect for the A's. He's essentially another Louisa rise because he doesn't walk at all, but he also doesn't ever strike out. He's striking out 4% of the time. He's going to put the ball in play. And you knew coming into that at bat, he was probably going to put the ball in play. So I would have rather seen Wilson come to the plate,

[00:19:22] with two outs, had you gotten Bleday and the infield back? I will say Bleday last year was much better against righties. But for his career, for his career, he is better against, way better against lefties than righties by about 80 points. Which is, yeah, which is kind of strange in the numbers this year reflected that, but the most recent large single season sample we had suggested the opposite. Right. So, it's not perfect.

[00:19:49] The Mariners ultimately shouldn't have allowed all those runners on base in the first place. Right. So, that's how, that's how, you have a one run lead going into the bottom half of an extra inning. You're, it's, it's, you're in such a squeeze in that point anyways, that you would need to be perfect. And think of the tightrope that Andres Munoz had to, had to run just to, just to get to that point. Yeah. Cause, you know, it was bases loaded, no one out. They probably should have lost the inning before anyway. Sure. And look,

[00:20:17] the Mariners are not going to win every series the rest of the year. This was just one game. It does happen, but it is something to just monitor here in terms of how things unfolded a little bit. And to be fair, not only did they not have Gabe Spire, but clearly Matt Brash is down and they're working him back slowly. I figured once Brash got back, he could throw every other. They seem to want to at least early on, give him multiple rest days if they can. Cause assuming he throws here on Tuesday, that would be, you know, that would be once every three games.

[00:20:47] Yeah. We'll see. It'll be interesting. Anyway, before we get to our interview with Gary, let's talk to you about our friends over at Pogaccia's pub 85. It's an awesome spot over in Kirkland. You can hang out with your friends, you can play some games like pool darts, et cetera. There's great food. There's sports on all the time, you guys. So if you want to watch an event, whether it's the Mariners or anything else, head over there. Cause there's 20 TVs. You can watch a bunch of different things if you wanted to. And if you go during happy hour, drinks are three and $4, two to 6 PM happy hours on Monday through Friday,

[00:21:16] three and $4 drinks. Again, all of that is over at Pogaccia's pub 85 in Kirkland. Always appreciate the opportunity to get to talk to Gary. I love the line from Gary. The last time we had him on of why he's such a good podcast guest. It's because he says, if I wasn't calling games for the Mariners right now, this right here is what I would be doing. So I feel like that's why we get, always have such a good conversation with Gary. It gives some great perspective on some of the early Mariners storylines this year

[00:21:46] with the offense, with the new, the new environment in Sacramento, how that affects the division, all sorts of things. And it, it all contributes to, you know, a really great baseball conversation. And it's three people who I'd say are pretty like-minded Gary and Goldie for that matter too. Cause we know those guys are such good friends. They're baseball nerds. Just like we are. Gary is absolutely a baseball nerd and he loves to dive into the numbers. So we talk about that stuff with him and he talks about it with us. Really fun conversation.

[00:22:14] So we know you guys are going to enjoy it. We won't keep you guys any longer. Let's get you to the interview with Gary Hill Jr. All right. We got Mariners broadcaster, Gary Hill Jr. on with us. Gary, thanks so much for taking some time to join us live from Sacramento. I got to ask, how is it? Well, uh, you're in my hotel room here in Sacramento. So yeah, this is about as far as I've been so far. I went to the grocery store last night late, but I have no take on Sacramento yet,

[00:22:44] but I am very curious to see what this experience is going to be like here at the ballpark for the next three days. We'll see how it goes. All I know is from what I read and the ball is flying in Sacramento. So given the Mariners are great offensively, we'll see if, I mean, what are Polanco and Cal going to do in Sacramento? I have no idea. Are they going to combine for 10 homers in this series? I don't know, but I'm, I'm as anxious as everyone to see how this all plays out. I'm going to take a run after this, uh,

[00:23:14] by the river. And so I'll, I'll give you a scouting report on Sacramento down the road. When you're going to the ballpark for the first time, I'd imagine there's like a checklist of things you're trying to scope out. What are those things? So usually when I go to a park for the first time, I just like to walk around and I like to see the whole thing. Like, you know, any points of interest, obviously, but I just like to see the vantage point of what it looks like everywhere.

[00:23:44] This one's going to be a little different clearly than like the major league parks I've been to for the first time. But that's kind of what I just like to do. I like to walk around, sit in the stands in different spots and just look around and get a feel for it. One is, I just like it as a baseball fan. I just like, like being familiar with the whole place. And just as a broadcaster too, I like to know kind of the nooks and crannies of a park. And, you know,

[00:24:14] like we were just at Fenway park, for example, but I've been there a lot, but it's really helpful to know all the different parts of the park. And that one's so unique because of the, the, the dimensions of the walls and the triangle and the pesky's pole and all this stuff. So that's kind of what I'll do when I first get there, I'll walk around in the 90 degree heat and check it all out. Side note on that. Is there an actual distance that they've measured officially down to the pesky pole?

[00:24:44] Cause there's not like a number out on the wall. I've always wondered that. I think they discourage official measurements. So no, that's kind of strange. Maybe they don't want people to know it's not even 300 feet. That's what it looks like. If you get the angle, perfect, which is hard, but I think that's mostly it. Yeah. I, you know, what's fun about pesky's pole and you only know if you sit right there is everyone signs the pole.

[00:25:13] And so all the fans that sit around there, they sign the pole. So it's like all these signatures up until, you know, you, you get to where people can't reach anymore, but it's actually a very cool and underrated part of the whole thing. And they have a plaque right underneath it where people sit. And what's really unique about it is the wall is so low at that point. And at the pole, it almost feels like you are on the field. If you're in that front row,

[00:25:42] it is such a wild and unique way to watch a ball game. It's very cool. Much like everything about Fenway park is pretty cool. So that's just one of the, the added features of it. I'm curious what you think the impact of the new park in this American league West will have on some of the other teams. Cause I'm sitting here and I'm looking at Sutter health park in Sacramento yesterday. And it is second right now in,

[00:26:09] in the small 2025 sample in terms of park factor, meaning it favors. It's the second best park to hit in, in all of baseball right now. Do you feel like that has much of a season long impact on a division at all? Say, cause I, I compare it to as if you were going to drop Coors field into the American league West and the Maris Mariners all of a sudden get to play six and six or seven games there a year. Does that impact? I'd say what the Mariners can do at all. Yeah,

[00:26:36] I was looking at the same thing and it's been pretty severe. What offenses have done in the park so far. Now we're a month in, so I think it's too early to draw any conclusions on the park, but early indications are that, yeah, this could be an extreme offensive park. I think it will affect the A's clearly will affect the A's more than the visiting teams coming in because like you're the Mariners, right? You roll in for a three game series.

[00:27:06] You know, if, if you hit a bunch of home runs, you're feeling great. If your pitching staff gives up a bunch of runs, you can just like, ah, it's three games. In this weird park, this sideshow, we'll move on. We'll be fine for the A's though. They can't move on. It's their home park. They're going to play half their games here. And already like Severino, who goes in game one, you know, the splits again, over a month in. So, but the splits are really severe. Like his ERA on the road is under one at home.

[00:27:35] It's over five. So that's a pretty extreme split. And if that sort of thing continues, you know, that's, I think can affect things. You know, the A's are built, I think with that young core offensively, maybe this is helpful for them moving forward, because they're going to have some guys put up some big numbers and they have the team that can do it. But on the other side, like I think their staff is going to get pretty beat up if the park ends up looking like this.

[00:28:03] And so I don't know what like long-term effects that will have for them, but it will affect them in some sort of way. Do you feel like it's more of the park layout itself and how the park is structured? Or is it like the, the environment, like the quality of the air, the thinness, the heat, et cetera? Yeah, that's, uh, I'm going to have a lot of those conversations today with, A's people when I go to the park for the first time,

[00:28:29] those are the conversations I'm looking forward to having to get kind of the take from not only, uh, A's people have been around, but hopefully there'll be some Sacramento people there that have been around for a while. And it's like, this has been a PCL park clearly. So it has been in play, at least in the minors for a long time. I think the heat certainly plays a factor. Uh, I heard it gets ridiculously hot during the summer here. I mean, already it's may and we're talking about, you know, these games are going to be 87, 88, 89.

[00:28:57] So I think heat certainly plays a factor, but I don't know. I don't know anything else about the wind or anything else, but I'm looking forward to those conversations today. I'll tell you, Gary, if you watch the Mariners offense through the first month and change of the year, you'd think they were playing in a PCL park because this offense has been awesome. Like, like over the first month of the year, it's been highlighted plenty, but they've been absolutely scorching hot. So I'm curious to kind of get your two cents on it and pick your brain about it a little bit compared to last year.

[00:29:27] Even the last couple of years, is there anything specific that you've pinpointed for what's been a big difference for them? It's been incredible. What a run it's been. You know, I think back to the San Francisco sweep and, you know, I remember, you know, like the worst 15 minutes you could roll out where Robles gets hurt and then you get walked off, you get swept. And I remember Aaron Goldsmith and I were having this conversation at the time because we both believe you can't win anything in April,

[00:29:56] but you can make things pretty tough on yourself if you get buried by seven, eight games in the first month. Cause then it feels like, you know, you're spending the next two months and change, just kind of slow stair step in your way back. And we really thought the Mariners were kind of in that position where if the next stretch didn't go well, they would find themselves in a position where it's going to take them a while to creep back. Little did we know starting the next day,

[00:30:23] they would have the best offense in baseball moving forward from that point. Really? No matter how you slice it, WRC plus run scored homers on base percentage, they've been great. And for me, they're doing a lot of things better than last year. I mean, there's, there's a lot of things in there, but the primary driving force for me, two things they're getting on base all the time because they have the best walk rate in baseball.

[00:30:49] So they're on base percentage is top three in baseball and they're smashing homers. Like they're one of the top homerun hitting teams in baseball. And like to contrast it to a couple of teams we just saw, you know, the angels, they're a top five homerun hitting team. They're not getting on base ever. So like when Soler hit that homerun against the Mariners at T-Mobile park, 17 of their last 18 homers were all solo homeruns,

[00:31:18] which doesn't do you a lot of good. Like 30 of their 39 homers coming into that series were solo. Well, the Rangers, they're a team that's not hitting homers at all. I mean, they're not getting on base either, but they went seven games without a homer, which in modern baseball is kind of hard to believe, but you look at what the Mariners are doing. They're smashing homers with people aboard. And to me, that's the driving force. When you have Polanco and Cal combining for more home runs than full teams have had in the first month,

[00:31:48] I mean, that's, that's been it for me. That's been the big difference. Now they're, they're doing a lot of things other really well compared to last year. But to me, that's it. They're walking, they're on base, they're hitting home runs and driving them in. That's the driving force. Doesn't it feel like the results of what they're getting with the home runs and the walks was what the entire old, I'd say older, the, the, the last regime's philosophy was trying to get out of this lineup. Like this lineup was built. Hey, we're going to, we're going to hit the ball extremely hard. We're going to work good counts.

[00:32:18] We're not going to chase out of the strike zone. And it almost, it seems like took different messaging to get the same result. They were chasing before it. Is that, I'd say a fair assessment. Yeah. And it's funny that you bring that up because I always, felt like one of the frustrations was their philosophy was perceived as passive,

[00:32:41] but it was really meant to be aggressive and aggressive in like this form where they are doing damage because they're not going up necessarily looking for walks. They're looking to do damage over the zone. So I think you're right in that way where this is the end result that they were always trying to get to. And I think messaging plays an important part. You know,

[00:33:04] I think about Cal and I've had a conversation with Cal where he said it helps him to think about middle of the field. Right. That's kind of his mindset. As we know, though, the end result is Cal's at his best when he's pulling tank home runs. Right. When he's going upper deck, pull side, whether it's right side or left side. And so what do we care what he's thinking about? If it helps him to think up the middle, that's great. So if the messaging helps think up the middle, think the other way,

[00:33:34] if that's the messaging, that's great. All I know is like, they're actually pulling the ball more this year than last year. When you look at the actual results and in a lot of ways, if the messaging helps them get there, great. But the results are, Hey, they're pulling the ball. Their hard hit rate is great. When you look up and down the lineup, there's a lot of guys that are hitting the ball extremely hard. And for me, that's where it's at. Like, if you want a good offense in the major leagues,

[00:34:02] you've got to hit the ball hard because the numbers bear it out. You know, if you hit the ball 95 plus or a hundred plus off the back consistently, you're going to get hits. You're going to do damage. And that's what the Mariners are doing. I want to get back to more offense here in a second, but you talked about where they were at after the giant series and you and Goldie having the conversation about, look, you can't win a division in April. You can't make the playoffs in April, but you can make it tough on yourself. The two of us were actually just hashing this out. So I'm curious to get your opinion on it,

[00:34:32] where we were talking about how in 2022, right? The Mariners obviously win 90 games. They break the drought. They get to the playoffs. But in order to do that, they had a stretch where they had to win 22 of 25 and 14 in a row just to get to 90 games where TJ and I are sitting here talking about, look, by setting, setting themselves up the way they have in April. If they hypothetically play 500 ball the rest of the year, that's an 84 win team in an American league. That's very, very wide open. So like,

[00:35:01] is it fair to say this kind of pinpoints what a strong start to the year can do for you? Yes. And if you want to think about it outside of Mariner terms, think about Baltimore. Like I still think Baltimore is a good team, even though they have not played like a good team. And can Baltimore still make the post season? Yes, they absolutely can. But do the math on what it takes for them to get to 84 wins. Now compared to what the Mariners would need to do to get to 84 wins. And the math is really different.

[00:35:30] They're going to have to have a stretch where they rip off 20 of 23 games, right? To get there. Mariners don't necessarily have to do that. So that's why I think the first month can be so important. You just, you put the math in your favor more than anything. Like we all know anything can happen from here on out because we've seen it, but you put the math in your favor by playing well. Now that being said, like I think this next few weeks are pretty important for the Mariners because there's a reality here.

[00:35:59] They're playing without a bunch of core guys like Logan Gilbert's not here. Kirby's not here. I think Robles and Rayleigh are big misses to the lineup. And so hopefully fingers crossed, you start to see Kirby, maybe Gilbert towards the end of the month, but for these next couple of weeks, you know, they'll be without those guys still. And I know there's going to be games where we look back on and say, man, you know, if Kirby would have started this game,

[00:36:29] maybe it ends up differently because he's one of the best pitchers in the game. And you could say that about Logan Gilbert. And maybe there's a game where it's, man, we really could have, Mariners really could have used Rayleigh's bat in the lineup, right? Like that's going to happen because when you miss core guys, that's going to happen. So I'm anxious to see what these next two, three weeks look like without those guys moving forward. And hopefully no one else gets banged up along the way because they've, it's,

[00:36:57] it's one of the most amazing parts of this whole thing, honestly. And what's impressed me the most is they are where they are given the adversity as well. This has not been smooth sailing. Everything has not been easy, but here they are second best record in the American league. And I give them a ton of credit for how they've gotten here. Doesn't it make the stretch feel similar to 2022 though, because they were also missing a bunch of guys during that stretch. Cause they got in a fight right at the beginning of it.

[00:37:23] And they had to stagger out the suspensions throughout the entire 14 game win streak. And it didn't affect them at all. Yeah. That's wild. I will never forget that one too. That was a, that was the family trip in Anaheim. So all the families were there as well, which is so, I mean for a totally different perspective on this, my family was there and my wife and kids were, there was a kind of a final bus going to the game and they were in route.

[00:37:53] And my wife was watching the game on her screen. And it was really bizarre for her as players, wives and loved ones are watching the game with her on the phone. And those are the guys involved in the melee. And it's like, Oh, I hope so-and-so is okay. It was, it was just a wild scene. And yeah, it really, that was an incredible Mariners run. And you know, there's some similarities certainly to what's going on right now outside of the fight.

[00:38:23] Yeah. So you're telling me it was like JP's family and Winker's family and those families on the bus. Yeah. I don't remember exactly which families were there, but yeah, there were families on the bus, you know, cause you got to think about it from that perspective. Like that's your loved one. That's on the field. And that was actually, and all honestly, like that was a scary one. That was actually a real brawl, a real fight. And you know, as you're watching a play out,

[00:38:51] it's really hard to see and tell exactly what's going on. You know, it's just a big scrum of people everywhere. And like, you don't know what's going on. That could be your loved one. You know, it's just a sea of red shirts down in a pile underneath. So yeah, it's a scary moment from them for that perspective, for sure. Back to some Mariners offense talking from this year. Have you gotten a chance to pick Kevin Seitzer's brain much? I'm assuming you have. And if you have,

[00:39:20] what have you picked up from him about why he feels like the offense is clicking? Yeah, it's funny. I haven't talked to him in the last couple of weeks, but you know, the, the conversations around the offense are, are so interesting because of what we've already talked about, the kind of approach mindset and some of the things that we've been is that are actually happening in terms of results. Given what we've already said about,

[00:39:50] you know, the mindset of going up the middle, going the other way, that's kind of the preach. And then, oh, but you're actually pulling the ball more. You're actually, it's homers driving this thing. But I guess my big takeaway from all the conversations I've had so far, and I guess this applies to pitching as well and not just offense, and this is kind of big picture, I guess.

[00:40:16] And one of the things I think is probably most important for everything is not every guy is the same. Not every guy has the same skillset. So I think it's important that they're not asking guys to be someone they're not. Right? So while we watch Cal and Polanco pull slug homers, you're not asking Leo Rivas to do that. Right?

[00:40:44] He's being that kind of spray the ball around, dunk a ball into left field, draw a walk. And I think that has played a part into this. Like you look at seven through nine in the order for the Mariners. Right? And you compare their on base percentage compared to seven through nines for others. And they have the second best on base percentage in baseball. And what's been remarkable to me is they plugged in a bunch of different guys. Like we've seen Williamson there, Rivas,

[00:41:15] JP was down there to start the season. Right? There's been, especially with the injuries, there's been all kinds of guys batting seven through nine in the order, but they've all kind of stayed true to themselves. Like master Boney hasn't been any different. Like he's not trying to slug homers. He's just trying to take a walk and drive a single. Right? Like he doesn't have much of a slug, but he's getting on base.

[00:41:40] So I think that has been an underrated part to this whole thing is just, they're not trying to slam guys into a box. They're just letting guys be who they are and be their best selves. And I feel like we've seen that on the pitching side for years. Like they've been really good at finding the strength of guys and just having them go do that.

[00:42:08] And they've been really successful with it. Should I think we're seeing that on the offensive side, at least so far? Yeah. So I was going to say it's, it's really interesting to hear you say that. And maybe this is where TJ was going to go with this too, but what you're saying and the conversations you've had, it mirrors something very similar to what TJ and I got to hear a little bit from Cal when we talked to him in spring training, because we were curious about the same thing. And we actually thought Cal's profile fit very well with what the old regime was and what the philosophy was. So we said, Hey,

[00:42:36] like what do you think the new philosophy is going to kind of look like? And how's it going to cater to each guy? Like, do you feel like you're going to have to be a little bit different in some ways with the new regime? And Cal said, no, honestly, I think it's more about getting the best out of each guy and their skillset. And he was kind of like highlighting out for us how, look, Robles back when, you know, he was healthy in spring training, he's going to get on and he's going to hit some doubles. He'll pop a few out of the yard here and there, but you know, he's not a guy that's going to sell out for power.

[00:43:04] And he gave us a couple examples like that of guys who can use their skillsets a little bit differently. And he said for me, like, yeah, I'll probably drive some guys in. So it's, it's interesting to hear you highlight basically the same thing because it sounds like it's been very, very similar messaging. That's click with a lot of people. Yeah. And going back to your question about sites are specifically, one of the things that he said to me that has really stuck with me is one of the things he finds most amazing about baseball.

[00:43:31] You can look at a guy swing and that is a completely unique swing. No two guys have the same exact swing. It's like snowflakes, right? The nothing is the same. So he finds that amazing about baseball and also important for his role to know that no two guys are the same. So you can't treat any swing the same. You can't treat any guy the same.

[00:43:58] And so that has always stuck with me because to me, it spoke to, Hey, you're not forcing guys to do one thing. You're letting a guy be himself and you're letting his swing be his swing, no matter what it is, which I think is really important. And the more conversations I have with people who know a lot more about me, a lot more than I do, the more I think it's just critical to let the individual be the individual and

[00:44:28] try and accent the strengths. Because I think that's what we're seeing play out for the most part. The player Lyle and I spent the most time preseason debating about this very subject and how he's going to approach himself offensively. Tell me if I'm wrong, Lyle, JP Crawford. Sure. Because we saw JP Crawford's best season, Gary, as a pull side fly ball hitter in 2023. He was the best in baseball at doing that. But you look at like, you think about JP Crawford, right? It's like, all right.

[00:44:57] So he doesn't have like plus plus power. It's pull side power. He's not the biggest dude in the world. Previously in his career, his calling card was extremely high contact rate and a good vision at the plate. Yet when he turned into a pull side power hitter, that was the best offensive output we saw this year. So we're like, all right, so what direction are they going to go with him? Are they going to go with the, we're going to tap into your power or we're going to tap into your contact? I feel like Gary,

[00:45:23] he's gone into this season and he's raised his contact percentage. Again, his strikeout rate is down. His walk rate in retrospect is back up because he's not missing as many pitches and he's still being pretty selective at the plate. And he's in turn sort of managed to find the combination so far of contact and power at the same time. While not really selling out for, um, selling out for that power. Cause we highlighted it in our Monday episode.

[00:45:51] He's shortened his swing a little bit and he's not sort of meeting the ball out in front of the plate quite as much the first month of the season. Do you feel like you've seen something similar from him? Absolutely. Uh, and you know, I was not expecting JP to reach the levels he was at two years ago. I, maybe that was his career year. So I was not asking for JP while I was hoping for a bounce back. I wasn't necessarily thinking he would reach that level again. Well, he's,

[00:46:20] I think been better than that for the first month of the season. And it's been that combo of things that you're talking about. One, his eyes exquisite, the pitches that he consistently lays off. It's really remarkable. And it is a true skillset that you just watch it play out at bat after a bat game after game, where he just won't chase. And if you're an umpire and you call, I've seen this play out too,

[00:46:48] where you call a strike on him and he looks back and wonders about it as the umpire. You're probably in the wrong because JP knows the strike zone so well. And it's, it really drove, especially early in the season. It drove the on base percentage. The hits came later after that. And I feel like he has picked his spots to go all out on a cut and go all out for power and not necessarily with two strikes.

[00:47:14] So it is kind of that combo that we've talked about. And he has been such a huge part of things for the Mariners so far this season. And before it was ninth in the order and now it's at the top of the order. And he's critical, you know, with losing Robles, with losing Rayleigh, like they, it went from JP bouncing back for me. Anyways, JP bouncing back from being a luxury to being a necessity because of where they are offensively.

[00:47:44] And he's been, I think better than you possibly could have imagined. Like rolling into day with like a four 10 on base or whatever it is, top five in baseball or top seven in baseball. That's phenomenal. That's great. And his defense has been really good too. You know, defensive run saved. He's plus there, which is great. I mean, this has been more, I mean, it's been the guy you were hoping for, but even better. I don't think we could have expected this. Is there somebody? Oh,

[00:48:14] I was going to say, Gary, on the defense quickly, I think Lyle's going to know what I'm talking about here. What do you, do you have a preferred defensive stat you like? So I guess defensive run saved for me. Although I guess in my conversations, like OAA is probably better for one group of players and defensive run saved better for another.

[00:48:41] So I do look at both to get a good feel because sometimes they can be wildly different and sometimes they're similar. So like when I, when I, I'll just bring up my scorebook here so you can take a look. Like when I have my scorebook, I do mine in Excel. I don't know if you can see it well. I got the defense there. And if you look close, you can see like, those are the A's there. And I have defensive run saved right underneath. And so that's kind of my go-to.

[00:49:10] Like I note, for example, that Lade is minus seven in center field. Yeah. He's not good. Not good last year in center field as well. So that's, that's kind of what I look at. I feel like we're not fully there defensively with any one metric. So like, I don't take anything as like on base percentage is on base percentage, right? It is what it is. I don't feel that way about defense.

[00:49:36] I kind of look at a few different sources to try and get a good feel for it more than anything. So, and I bring that up because DRS has GPS plus OAA has JP as bottom of the league. So it's like, we're just, are we just aiming right in the middle? I mean, that's it. I mean, I guess part of it depends on, I think defensive run saves, especially for infielders. I think it's infielders can be more telling OAA, more telling for outfielders,

[00:50:06] but it's, you know, it's, it's splitting hairs, I guess. But, and some of it is you watch a play out. And I think, I think having Williamson there, especially like the Mariners defense, it's been an interesting journey this year so far for the Mariners defense. Like if you look at the numbers, it didn't, it was not a great start defensively for the Mariners. Like they were towards the bottom, whether you look at AA or you look at defensive runs saved,

[00:50:35] they were towards the bottom in both. And it's been a steady climb since then. Like, I don't know if they're great defensively, but, and I think part of this for me has been Williamson at third base has been such an important piece of the puzzle for the Mariners because everything else I feel like has fallen into place because of that. Like he's been really solid defensively at third.

[00:51:03] It's also allowed them to DH Polanco this entire time and keep outside of judge, the best bat and baseball in the lineup consistently. Right. And so I think it's set the table for them to be just a better defensive infield overall, because Williamson has been really good at third. Whoever has played at second Rivas. I mean, Masturbone has been pretty good at second. Rivas has been pretty good at second.

[00:51:31] Like just overall their infield defense especially has been better. And there, and the outfield has gotten better through the year for whatever reason, they got off to a bad start, at least according to metrics defensively with their outfielders. But that's been getting better and better as the season has gone on too. But I think Williamson to me has been kind of the key to the whole thing. I'm glad we're thinking on the same wavelength as you, because we've said the same thing. Like Ben feels like he's really stabilized a lot,

[00:51:57] especially with the Polanco thing to just let him hit and let him get right, which has been awesome. The OAA and DRS thing makes sense for outfielders versus infielders, because OAA so much tracks range where you can get a little bit of it with infielders, right? But it's tougher because you just don't move as many feet when you, when it all comes down to it. Outfielders are legitimately covering significantly more ground. So that makes some sense, right? That maybe OAA is a little better for the outfielders. And to me,

[00:52:26] like if you ask what is the most important skill for an outfielder, like it's range in terms of defense. And that's the part that I find so difficult. Like, I don't know, like you're watching the ball, you're watching the ball hit. We never see the first step. You never see, at least I can, because I'm watching the game. I can never see the jump of the outfielders. So it's,

[00:52:49] I feel like I have to rely on those numbers because I cannot honestly say who has a good job and who doesn't have a good job. And to me, that leads directly into your range and how quickly you can get to a ball. Gary, speaking of the outfielders, I'd be curious to get your take on this. Are we calling Julio's start to the season slow? Cause I was looking at his numbers earlier today. The hitting numbers aren't MVP worthy for sure,

[00:53:17] but I'm looking at the fact he has a career high walk rate right now. He has a career low strikeout rate right now. His defense is being graded as plus. His speed is being graded as plus plus. He's already worth over one win above replacement. I look at all those things. I'm like, that's not really a slow start, is it? So I think the Julio conversation is nuanced because of the lot of things you just point out. Like he has been a productive player for the Mariners. I don't think there's any question about that.

[00:53:46] I think he's been an anchor in center field for the Mariners defensively. He is run when he's been aboard. We've seen the power, but in terms of measuring him for his own expectations, I think that's usually where this Julio conversation goes, right? So if somebody says Julio has a slow start, it's because they're measuring Julio by his own lofty expectations.

[00:54:14] I think that's what the conversation is. I think he has certainly been a productive player and he's been a big part of where the Mariners are at. So when I think about Julio moving forward, I think about, hey, I don't think you can ask Cal and Polanco to hit 21 home runs in a month combined in May, for example. Now, as I say that, Cal hit two home runs in the first day in May. So maybe I'm wrong on that.

[00:54:44] Maybe they'll do it all over again and we'll just see a repeat. So this is where I see Julio this next month. Like, I'm less concerned about the hit tool. We'd all like the batting average to be higher. That's obvious. But I think they're going to need his power coming up this next month. And we saw some flashes of it. And as you mentioned, there's some good stuff happening underneath. Like,

[00:55:12] the walk rate is a really good sign to me. And he's hit the ball hard, which is great. I think they're going to need the home run power too coming up this month, especially without a couple pieces in the lineup, especially as you see Polanco and Cal again, maybe they'll do it again, but not hitting 21 home runs in a month. You're going to need Julio, I don't know, six, seven home runs this next month to try and kind of make up for that. But again,

[00:55:42] you bring up a really good point. And I think the Julio conversation is always difficult because of the expectations. And he said it for himself because we've seen the flashes of him being among the best players in baseball. And we've seen it for weeks and month at a time. So we have seen him play at an MVP level. So I feel like that's where this conversation always goes.

[00:56:07] And it revolves around the expectations and the player he can be down the road. But, you know, it's WRC plus is over a hundred. He's been, he's been a good player so far this season. And the other part of that conversation too, is on the same lines of Cal and Polanco, likely not repeating what they did in April. Well, Julio also hasn't totally gotten going yet. So at some point, maybe when Cal and Polanco, you know,

[00:56:37] get back to their means a bit, it'll be Julio's turn to drive the offense and carry the offense a bit. Cause we answered a mailbag question about Julio just recently. And we told people, look, we know April offensively is not his strongest month in the world at this point in his career. But you also know that at some point this year, he will have a prolonged stretch where he's red hot because he does it every year. Like at some point, you know, it's coming. You don't know exactly when, but at some point, and if he's going to drive the offense for a bit, you know,

[00:57:05] the offense can keep playing at this, you know, at some sort of high level pace. And to me, that's the key. When you talk about the long arc of a baseball season, guys are going to, there's going to be peaks. There's going to be valleys and Polanco and Cal are not going to be as hot at points of the season as they are now. So when they are not, that's when you need the baton passed to a couple other guys. Maybe a Rosarena gets red hot for a while.

[00:57:33] Maybe it's Julio will carry the load for a while. I mean, that's what good offenses do. And that's what you need. And I guess when I think about, man, what's been wild about the Mariners the last few years is the peaks and valleys have been so extreme, not only from a wins losses, but also from their offense. Like when they have gone cold, they have gone ice cold, right?

[00:58:03] We've seen them at times look like, I mean, are they ever going to score three runs in a game again? And then they'll get in stretches where, man, this is the best team on the planet, right? We have seen those both extremes. So when I think about Julio specifically, when I think about the offense, can they just kind of level out the Valley a little bit, right? Can they just, can it not dip so far and then peak back, you know?

[00:58:31] So that's what I'm hoping for out of this season, that they can kind of level out. So instead of losing six of seven, maybe they lose four or seven. That's going to happen during the season. Like you're going to go through stretches. You don't play well, but if they can kind of level that out, you add another win or two or three during the course of the year. Cause as we know, the margins are going to be super narrow.

[00:58:58] Inevitably we're going to get to September and we're talking about one, two games. That's going to separate this whole thing. Like, you know, that's coming because that's what's happened the last few years. So I think that's really important. If you can just steal a win here or there, and they've done a great job of that so far. The thing that I've kind of marveled at the most, when you look at these, the series win streak that they're on, you look at some of those games, where they've won a series and they faced Hunter Brown,

[00:59:28] Garrett Crochet, Max Meyer. Like these are games on paper. They should not have won and they have found a way to win. So hopefully they can keep on doing that. Yeah. Honestly, you know what I think highlighted that really well, even though they weren't facing an ace on Saturday, but Saturday's game, like it wasn't their best performance by any means. And even their a light, like their a guys out of the bullpen and leverage. I don't think any of the three of them had their best stuff Saturday between Brash, Spire,

[00:59:57] Munoz, but they all found a way to just kind of bulldog it and pitch their way out of it to get a win. And like, those are the type of games you need down the stretch. Mm-hmm. For sure. That was super exciting, by the way, to see Brash back on the mound. Yeah. And I think it's really exciting moving this forward. When you think about what a back end can look like with Munoz, Spire, who's been magnificent and Brash as well. And then you can, you know,

[01:00:24] I think Snyder's been quietly really good the last few weeks and he's kind of worked himself into that pivot role, which is really key to the Mariners bullpen. And you can see this thing, how it can be a really dynamic back end where they're closing out close wins consistently. And if you can get Gilbert back, hopefully Gilbert back as well. Like you don't necessarily need to have the best offense in baseball, which they've had the last month. I mean,

[01:00:51] you don't need to be the top scoring team in baseball when you have that kind of dynamic staff going, because I am super excited about what the back end of the bullpen can look like. And man, seeing Brash back on the mound was just the greatest. I miss that guy so much. You know, I've said it, if Brash is on the team last year and nothing else changes, I think the Mariners go to the post season. I think he is that dynamic, that unique.

[01:01:19] There's not many guys out there like him and especially the way they used him. Like, I think they're in the post season last year and I think he's going to make a huge difference this year for the Mariners. Yeah. And agreed. And I was going to say, that was exactly what they needed last year. Literally their worst innings were the innings, Brash pitched that he wasn't there for last year. Wasn't it such a breath of fresh air? Again, you see that box score on Saturday and it's Castillo for six and then it's Brash, Spire, Munoz. It's like, yes, like sign us all up. Well, it's funny.

[01:01:47] It felt like a formula game in a year where we haven't seen a lot of formula games, right? The starters haven't generally gone deep. There's been a lot of five innings, like a lot of hard work to get those five innings as well. And so there haven't been a lot of like, Oh yeah, it felt, I got a Saturday felt very familiar. It felt like an old pair of slippers. Like, Oh yeah, I remember this feeling one run game handed to the bullpen, close it down. Yes. Yes. I remember all of this. And Hey,

[01:02:17] that game was critical too. Cause there was a reality the next day where you were facing to Grom and nothing against Logan Evans, but you look at that game on paper and you know, that was leaning Texas way. And the fact they got Saturday and made Sunday, a gravy game, I think was super important for the Mariners. That was a really big game to get. I got one last thing for you, Gary. So you've been around Dan Wilson, the manager for a little over two months now,

[01:02:44] what have you felt like have been his strengths as a manager and what he's brought? You know, I think, and you, I think you can say that about from the moment he walked in the door is he commanded the respect of everyone and he's beloved by everybody. I don't think everyone realized at the time, like how involved he was in the organization. He was a guy that he would go to Arkansas for,

[01:03:14] for a week or Modesto for a week or Tacoma for a week. And he was doing that for years. And you think about the Mariners current coaching staff, you know, a lot of them were homegrown like Pete Woodworth was up through the system. So Dan has had a relationship with a lot of these people. Remember he was a spring training for all these years as well. So not just the coaching staff through the system, but the coaches on the major league side as well. And you think about the players that have come up through the system. Like you think about the Mariners core,

[01:03:43] whether you're talking about Cal or Julio or Logan or George Kirby, like he has been there for their journeys through the majors, to the majors, especially with Cal Raleigh. So I think he has had the instant respect from everyone involved. And I think the manager job has changed so much over the years, like drastically. It is so different than when Lou Piniello was the manager for the Mariners,

[01:04:12] where it was really a one man job. It was a one man show. You're making all the decisions. This is much more of like a CEO role now, where, you know, not only are you managing the players, which is a hard thing in itself. Cause you think about the makeup of a major league roster, you're talking about half a dozen countries. You're talking about players ranging from Donovan Solano,

[01:04:38] who's been in the majors for over 10 years to Williamson and Logan Evans, who have been here for a day and everything in between, right? All these different backgrounds, all these different people, some playing their final year of a contract, you know, there's all these different dynamics and you're trying to get everyone pushing in the same direction. And you have your coaching staff that have gotten bigger and bigger and bigger as time has gone on. And you have the analysts,

[01:05:08] you've, you've got all kinds of information to sort through. There's all of these things happening for a manager. And I feel like on the outside, we always think about and talk about the pinch hits or the pitching changes, which is all important stuff. Don't get me wrong. But I think the biggest part of being a manager is all of those things that happen behind the scenes. And that's really what makes a team go. And I think Dan Wilson is great at empowering his staff.

[01:05:38] And I think the Mariners have a lot of smart people on the staff. You know, Pete Weirworth, Trent Blank, but also analysts that have had a big hand in making this thing go. And he lets them do that, which is great. So I think that's a real strength of his. And he loves his players. And I think they feel that. And I think that's another big strength of his. So it's, it's, you know,

[01:06:08] when you watch a game play out, there are things that happen. And you were like, wow, that's kind of surprising. I would have expected a pinch hit here, maybe a pitching change here. So things are a little different in that way. But I think bigger picture, man, he does a lot of things that I think are super important for a manager that us on the outside just can't always see or recognize. Last one I've got for you, Gary, this might be the most, this might be the most important question we've asked you so far. Yes.

[01:06:37] Did you and Goldie ever officially stamp a name of your pregame radio segment? Cause we got to hear all about this from Goldie that you couldn't come up with a name. I haven't even heard an update. Oh yes. There is a name for the segment. It's called, I should get this right. Uh, it's, it's, the, the official name is out of left field with Gary and Goldie. That's the name. Okay. That's the name.

[01:07:07] Yeah. And did you guys come up with it? No, there was a, there was a, uh, there was a submission. I can't remember. It came from you guys. I should know this. I'll look back. There was a, there was a submission that we're like, yeah, that's it. I almost, I almost thought we should just call it the show to be named later. Just because just keep the gag going forever. But, uh, but we like it. It's a, I think it sums up things pretty well because, you know, who knows what we're going to talk about day to day.

[01:07:37] Yeah. I think Goldie, Goldie's initial, he's like throwing it out. It's like, you know what? Maybe we'll just, we'll call it like two guys in a boat because that's how you guys came up with the segment in the first place. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's so funny that that we, we were doing this thing for years. We can't come up with a name. And finally, like, honestly, the, uh, the station said, you know, we've got to call this something. And so our hand was forced.

[01:08:06] So we finally had to, we had to officially name it. Love it. Thank you for your concern. Yeah. Again, I think it was the most important question we'd ask. Gary, this has been awesome. As always, we look forward to catching up with you when you guys get back on a Friday, big series against the blue Jays. We'll have to get a report from Sacramento. So we're looking forward to it. I'll fill you in. Yeah. I'm that's going to be a super fun homestand. Uh, blue Jays coming in over the weekend and the Yankees after that. And,

[01:08:35] you know, we'll see what happens this weekend, but Mariners and Yankees been two of the best. And you have the judge Polanco matchup. Yeah. That we're all looking forward to two of the best hitters in the game. So it's going to be great. Yeah. Great to see you guys. This has been fun. Hope you guys enjoyed the conversation with Gary Hill jr. We always enjoy talking to him. I can't wait to hear about the report. Once we get, once they get back from Sacramento and back to Seattle this weekend, because it is going to be very interesting.

[01:09:02] We'll have to report back what they have to say about it because it's new territory for everybody. And, uh, and I can't wait to hear. All right. That just about wraps up this edition of the Marine layer podcast. You guys know the drill. If you want to find all of our stuff, it's all over at one spot, Marine layer pod.com. That's our website. You guys, it's out, it's rolling everything you guys need to find to keep on top of our stuff is all over there. Whether it's audio episodes, video episodes, make sure to download and rate and review and like, and subscribe all that good stuff.

[01:09:33] If you're over there, hit that subscribe button on YouTube. You guys really does help us out. If you do, we would love, love, love to have you over at our Patreon channel. So if you want to get involved with that, we would love to have you. You can find that over at our website as well and go get your merch, all your merch for the Marine layer pod is over on our website. So go check it out. Go get yourself some merch, wear it around the ballpark, tag us in it. If you get some, we'd love to see it. And then as always, if you want to find us on social media, you can do so all across socials at Marine layer pod.

[01:10:03] That's TJ. I'm Lyle. As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you.