Episode 247: Could The Mariners Go To A Six-Man Rotation? + Jurrangelo Cijntje (Mariners Prospect)

[00:00:00] Welcome to episode number 247 of the Marine Layer Podcast. We have a very special guest with us today, Mariners Switch pitcher Jurrangelo Cijntje. We talked to him about throwing with both arms, developing within the Mariners organization, and how he learned to speak so many languages. Since it's Memorial Day as well, we have some Mariners takeaways at the two-month point of the 2025 season.

[00:00:23] Here's a reminder for you guys. If you want to stay on top of everything we're doing, you can do so all over at our website. You can go get your merch, sign up for our Patreon. We'd love, love to have you. You can go find all the episodes over on our website, whether you like to listen, whether you like to watch, that's all over there. You can find all of our upcoming live show schedules at our website. Again, it's a one-stop shop for all you guys. That's the big reason we started it. It's MarinLayerPod.com. Stay on top of all of our stuff and find us across everywhere on social media, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube,

[00:00:52] shorts, Twitter, Twitter, at MarinLayerPod. Let's get it rolling. And we welcome you to this episode of the MarinLayer Podcast, part of the Just Baseball Podcast Network, recording on Monday evening, May 26th. Does it feel good, Lyle, to you that we're on even footing today?

[00:01:23] Even footing how? That we both had to wake up at 4.30. Ah. Sure. Sure. Now try it for like a three-week stretch and let me know how all the lethargic feelings get. What's even the right word? Like lethargy. There we go. Does the lack of sleep catch up with me after three weeks? Correct. To answer your question, yes. Yeah, I would.

[00:01:51] Yeah. Lethargy was the word I'm looking for because you can do it for a day and get through it. You do it for an extended period of time. Oh, it wears on you. Not to say in a bad way, again, like I continue to always say, I love being on the show. I love being on Brock and Salk. It's an absolute blast. But it is very early. And it was fun hosting today. Yeah. Yeah, it was. And you didn't get ripped on for not knowing anything today. No, if anything, I had somebody in our corner. Yeah.

[00:02:19] We had somebody in their 60s call in and it's like, those guys are morons to you on the radio every day. So that means you're taking a victory lap on Tuesday. Probably. As soon as I get the chance for it to come up. Yeah, I'm about to clip that audio and use it in my back pocket for whenever I need it. So, yeah. But it was really fun, as always. So thanks so much to everybody that let us fill in again. Thanks to everybody that tuned in. Thanks to everybody that called in. And it's always really fun.

[00:02:48] And hopefully we'll do it again soon. And there should be no shortage of Marine Layer podcast content for you guys this week. I mean, think about that. We're sitting here recording Wednesday's episode. We have Monday's episode. I know a lot of you who didn't have to work on Monday might be getting to later in the week than you normally do. So you have that to listen to. And then you have four hours of us on the radio. There's no shortage. If you're looking for something to listen to,

[00:03:13] I truly recommend one of the six hours of content we put out in the first three days this week. Because there's something for you there. Or there's still everything we post on social media. Yeah, exactly. So there's no shortage of that. So please feel free to go check that out. We talked about some injuries on the radio. We talked about it on Monday's episode. About Bryce Miller and Logan Gilbert coming back to sort of full help. By the way, this is before the takeaways we'll get to here.

[00:03:38] And then we'll hear a really fun conversation that Launa had in Everett with Durangelo Sanja. So much fun to get to sit down and talk with him in person. So we updated the injuries on Monday's episode. Summary, it sounds like Bryce Miller and Logan Gilbert feel good. They're going to get back out on mounds again here soon. Bryce Miller sounds like he will be on the IL for the minimum amount of time. The next time he's on a mound throwing,

[00:04:05] he is going to be throwing hopefully live in a game for the Mariners, which is good. Logan Gilbert needs one more sim game. Then he goes on a rehab assignment. Positive, positive. That stuff is good. We talked about Bryce's... It seems like him and the Mariners figured out what the issue was with his elbow and why it was getting inflamed. Didn't disclose what it was, but said he's going to work through it. There was something in there he mentioned, Lyle, though, that you noticed that kind of stuck out to you.

[00:04:34] We posted about it on social media here on Monday of what that could potentially mean. We could be looking into something a little bit too much, but we also could be looking at something that actually might help Bryce Miller over his next few starts in the Mariners rotation. Could you highlight what that is? Yeah. So I guess we kind of glanced over it when we read the article over the weekend, and then we didn't end up talking about it on the radio on Monday. But just reading through it again, there was something that jumped out, which was, again, this is from Daniel Kramer on MLB.com.

[00:05:04] But the little graph says this. It says Miller was more optimistic about returning to the rotation, potentially for the next time he throws, which would tentatively be no sooner than next Thursday versus the Nationals as he's expected to remain on a six-day routine. The note there is the last line, as he's expected to remain on a six-day routine. I think that can mean two things. It either means he's operating on a six-day routine as he recovers

[00:05:33] and as he works his way back from the elbow inflammation, or there's a little bit of a hint there that they could continue to roll him out on a six-day routine, which would mean the Mariners would run out a six-man rotation until Logan Gilbert comes back. Or even when Logan comes back, it would still be a six-man rotation, potentially. Hmm.

[00:05:58] I don't think the Mariners think that giving Bryce Miller an extra day of rest permanently throughout the rotation is worth having one less bullpen arm. That's how I look at it. I don't think that's necessarily a smart strategy for this team. Does it not help everybody else, though, to do it? It doesn't help the bullpen at all. One less guy in the bullpen, and that is a key here. It's pretty significant.

[00:06:26] Because that's going to tax your bullpen a lot more. No doubt. The other side to it, though, is George Kirby's coming back from injury. Bryce Miller's coming back from injury. Logan Evans has not regularly thrown on a five-day routine in his career. Again, he's obviously done it since he's been in the big leagues, but throughout the minors and college, it was more once a week because that's the schedule that gets laid out in the minors. Usually pitchers throw once in a series throughout the six games,

[00:06:55] which is once a week. Could it not help everybody stay a little bit more fresh? Could it not help Bryce Miller at all kind of manage this elbow thing? Could it not help George Kirby at all manage his shoulder? Could it not help Logan Gilbert at all when he comes back manage his elbow? Or I guess his forearm? I don't know. It could, but are you ready for the repercussions that come from the lack of one extra bullpen arm? Because that is the other side of it.

[00:07:23] It helps the rotation and hurts the bullpen, which is not your strength at all. It's going to make, and especially if you think about it this way, Matt Brash isn't going to be the guy that gets sent back to Tacoma at this point. So you're going to have Matt Brash who cannot pitch on back-to-back days, and they would probably prefer it if he pitched every three days, if possible, as he's working his way back from this. Now his bullpen is going to have one less guy to take the innings away from him,

[00:07:49] and the Mariners are going to have to use every single one of their relievers more frequently. And that's on top of them essentially proclaiming the strategy they're going to use Andres Munoz in, is only with a lead in the ninth inning. So that leaves you with what? Five guys that you can pitch regularly? I guess the other side of that coin that I'd argue with is, so you're right. I would also say that Blas Castano is essentially the last guy in the bullpen right now.

[00:08:18] He hasn't thrown. So they're not even getting to the back of that bullpen all that much. Doesn't mean you don't need it. No, but they at least haven't in the last few days and haven't used it a ton. Not that they've never needed it. They have. But I wouldn't say they're regularly getting to the back of that bullpen. The only way I think this can work out with the bullpen, the only way I feel like six-man rotations really do work, is if every single one of your pitchers is consistently going six innings,

[00:08:48] like the Mariners did and had the ability to last year with their rotation doing what they did in 2024 when they were unbelievable. But the rotation has not done that this year. Almost every single one of these guys has an average start length under six innings. And that includes Logan Gilbert. That includes George Kirby when there's one start not even close to six innings. Brian Wu is the only guy, I think, who's above six innings on average for a start. Castillo hasn't done that. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:14] So this is our long way of saying it would be difficult to run out the six-man rotation. It would potentially really help your starting rotation if you feel like guys could use the extra recovery day from the injury. Which, by the way, we didn't even mention Wu in that, who's been awesome this year and has had a total clean bill of health so far this year. But we know he's battled things over his career. So it would help your rotation, potentially, to get him the extra rest. How it would tax that bullpen is where you have to try and balance things out.

[00:09:43] And the Mariners have not opted to use a six-man rotation in a long time. And I think that is part of it. Honestly, remind me on this. Did the rule change at the turn of the new CBA where you can only have a maximum number of guys in your bullpen where it's capped at eight? It's maximum number of pitchers. 13-13, right? Yeah. That's what it is. And let me note this for bullpen purposes, Lyle.

[00:10:09] Over the next six weeks, the Mariners have a grand total of three off days. That's not a lot. Over six weeks? Yeah. So, look. Like, working into June, you have this last week of May. Three against the Nationals. Then you have three against the Twins. Off day. Orioles, Angels, Diamondbacks. Off day. Guardians, Red Sox. Off day.

[00:10:35] Cubs, Twins, Rangers, Royals, Pirates all without an off day until the 7th of July would be the fourth off day in that span. That's six weeks. That is a lot. And do you want a bullpen pitching a man down for six weeks? I probably would say no. I don't know exactly how the Mariners view this. You are probably right.

[00:11:03] When it all comes down to it, it is unlikely they would probably opt to go a man down in their bullpen. I do just wonder for the sake of the health of their rotation if it's something they feel like they could manage.

[00:11:43] I would say also with this bullpen. And what happens? Right. You don't want to say what you want about Edward Brazardo, for example. You don't want to DFA him after you have a starter go three innings and he has to cover three because your bullpen also had to pitch once the night before. And he has to go cover all that. And now the Mariners got to put them on waivers just because they're short a man in the bullpen. Right. Or even more extreme than that.

[00:12:09] If somebody gets shelled in the rotation, they burn through a bullpen and they essentially decide on the spot. Well, the six man rotation is not going to work anymore. We need bullpen arms with the snap of a finger. We're going back to five. That wouldn't be great either. No, you'd be thrown off routines. And on top of that, right, then you would. There's something else I was going to say there. It wouldn't be good. It would be. I don't think that would be the most thought out thing. And I don't.

[00:12:35] Again, ultimately, I think that's why the Mariners would not go with this strategy because it just doesn't feel like it's going to be sustainable enough throughout the season. I think they feel like if they can get solid health from the rotation, it's going to be perfectly fine at five. That's probably right. And my reasoning and my ultimate answer on this more sides with yours.

[00:12:57] I was just I was interested to take the other side of this argument and I was interested to try to put myself in the Mariners shoes if this is what they were thinking and present another option. Ultimately, yeah. With the new change in CBA rules over the last couple of years where you can only have a max of 13 pitchers does seem unlikely they would run out of bullpen with one guy down. There's only so many teams that can afford to do something like that.

[00:13:24] Like if you had Shohei Otani, yeah, you make it work for him to pitch in the rotation with a six man rotation. That I would be perfectly fine with. But the Mariners don't have Shohei Otani because they didn't offer him a contract. So here we are. Oh, no, they decided it wasn't worth it. Hey, did you hear the one year deal still on the table? I hear. Oh, it's on the table for us. We'll give Shohei one for 65.

[00:13:54] Yeah. Sounds like a win win. No deferred money. Nope. Can be near driveline. Let him do what he wants. Yep. Sign me up. Opt out of your contract, Shohei. There's probably not. There's not an opt out in this contract. But there is. There is no way. No, there's not. Since it's Memorial Day, Lyle, we talked about this on the radio today as we move on. I thought it would be a good marking point that we could do some two-month takeaways for the Mariners.

[00:14:23] Now that they have reached here on Monday, May 26th, Memorial Day and off day for them. We can sit here. We have a solid sample of what we've seen from the 2025 Mariners. And we can make some observations on what we've seen so far. Give me a takeaway that you've had so far this season. Where do we want to start? Is Cal Raleigh the easy one? It is, but I feel like it's where you have to lead off.

[00:14:49] Cal Raleigh is fourth in baseball in WRC+. The guys ahead of him. Judge, Otani, Freeman, Raleigh. That's the list. He's third in baseball in F4. He is fourth in WRC+. He is the best catcher in the game and is playing like an MVP through two months. I don't think you can start anywhere else. And he's exceeded all of our expectations. He's probably exceeded the organization's expectations.

[00:15:17] I would say that Cal's probably exceeded his own expectations in terms of how well he's hit this year. In terms of how much he's walked or how much contact he's made. I'm sure he's assumed he would do better. I don't think he thought he was going to have a 200 or 180 WRC+. His WRC plus in the month of May is 200. Is that good? 200. Yeah, that's pretty good.

[00:15:45] Still makes it crazy to think about that Judge's WRC plus for the year is hovering around 250 for the season. Yeah. It makes it more impressive for Cal, though, given what he physically has to do. Yeah, Judge plays every day in the outfield. Cal Raleigh is catching every day and doing that. He has to manage a pitching staff, hit from both sides of the plate, and still manages to put up numbers like that. He said to fine-tune two different swings to get to this point.

[00:16:13] He very well could have been an elite left-handed hitter at this point, but remains the right-handed swing he was in 2022 and 2023, where he's, meh, he's fine. Gets the job done. It's not going to kill you, but it's not great. But all of a sudden, I mean, it's now legitimately good from the right side as well. That's not something Aaron Judge has to worry about. I was curious what the best offensive season for a catcher is of all time. I don't know if this is number one.

[00:16:42] I can't imagine it's very far off. I'm looking at Mike Piazza in 1997. Hit .362, which is wild. No hitters doing that in today's game. I guess except for Judge. But hit .362. He OPS 1070, put up a .185 OPS plus with 40 homers. The thing about Piazza, though, is as unbelievable as that was, he was not a switch hitter, and to do what Cal's doing and have to manage it from both sides is ridiculous. And to do it in this era against this pitching,

[00:17:12] he's essentially not average-wise, but almost everything else, mirroring what Piazza did in 97. Cal's expected to have a higher war than Piazza had in 97. His WRC plus OPS plus is hanging right around the same spot. It's wild. How many wins above replacement was that season? By baseball reference, Piazza was at 8.7. By fan graphs this year, they say Cal's on pace for 9.3. I'm looking at Pudge Rodriguez, too. I was curious if he had one of these seasons.

[00:17:41] In 2000, Pudge had a 149 WRC plus that was only worth 4.7 wins above replacement. He's actually better the season before, just worse offensively, worth nearly seven wins. And the fact Cal's on pace, like you said, for 9 wins, just blowing two clear-cut Hall of Fame catchers out of the water is pretty crazy. If you want to add in a third, look at Johnny Bench's career. 20, or sorry, 1972 was his best year,

[00:18:09] but Cal Raleigh is surpassing what Johnny Bench did in that year. Johnny Bench hit 40 bombs that year. He had a 920 OPS, a 166 OPS plus, and his baseball reference war was 8.6. So again, that's not one, not two, but three Hall of Famers and three of the best catchers to ever play this game that Cal Raleigh is on pace to surpass in terms of his season right now. Nuts. That's pretty insane.

[00:18:37] That is pretty bonkers when you think of Piazza, Pudge, Johnny Bench. And Cal Raleigh is exceeding all of them. Yeah. Yeah, he is. Pretty good. All right, what's your first takeaway? My first takeaway is the Dan Wilson effect is real, but I'm not sure if it's real enough yet. And here's what I mean by that. I do think there is a tangible difference in what Dan Wilson has done

[00:19:05] as opposed to what Scott Service had done the last couple of years in terms of what he's gotten out of his roster, the messaging being different, the offensive approach being a little bit different, and Dan putting his stamp on the team. It has clearly been different, but I still think we're in the to-be-determined phase of whether or not it's actually good enough and better than what they did before. There's a difference between different and better.

[00:19:28] Right now, record-wise, Dan Wilson has a better winning percentage record than Scott Service because he went 21-13 to finish 2024. Then Dan Wilson in March and April is 18-11. This month, in the month of May, he's right now 11-11 recording here on Monday. It's good. It's definitely good. It is a higher winning percentage than what they were doing before.

[00:19:57] But, Lyle, you and I know they actually have to pass the buck and make it and win for the bar to be reset. For there to say, yep, clearly better at this point. It has clearly worked. Things have been good. Some things haven't quite as been good. Some of his in-game decision-making has been quite bad, actually. But the wins and losses have pointed as a positive. So how's that going to look at the end of the season? I think we still have to be on a wait-and-see moment.

[00:20:25] I was hoping we'd get a better answer for this two months in, but I was looking at it and I'm like, eh. I don't think I'm seeing that so far. A lot of the times you can tell who a team is by Memorial Day, I don't think we know with the Mariners. And we highlighted that a little bit on Monday's podcast, a little bit while we were on Brock and Salk. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that the offense had two drastically different months. You don't really know which version they're going to be. This team may need until around the All-Star break to get a real determination on who they are.

[00:20:54] So I think the Dan Wilson effect's real. I think players are bought into his philosophy and his system and this coaching staff. I don't think there's any doubt about it, especially listening to the way players talk about him and this regime. The other side of the Dan Wilson effect is, are the in-game decisions going to seriously cost this team throughout a season? Or when games really get into crunch time, whether that's late in September, whether it's October, etc. Because we've talked plenty about the in-game management.

[00:21:23] And right now, games are early. None of them have totally come back to bite them really badly yet. But if some of it doesn't change, will it? So I think there's a lot to balance here. I look at it even simpler than that, right? So we could look at the game-by-game basis down the stretch. The bar is 90 wins. That's what the old regime peaked at. Or are you better than that? Right. This team, by the way, you could argue,

[00:21:52] is probably right as talented as those teams that won 90 games. You think? You think this team's better than 22? I feel like the peak Mariners talent was 23. Right? 23 or 22. Yeah, so that team didn't win 90, but... They did. They won 87. It was either 87 or 88. I was going to say 88. Let's see. So the most talented team they had in this window has been, I believe, 20-23. And they had Teoscar. They had the great bullpen.

[00:22:22] They had the entire starting rotation available. Even if they weren't all performing well, Robbie Ray technically was on that team for a little bit. Right. Let me fill in here. They won 88 games. And to just add to your point here, you still had Geno. I know it was a little bit of a down year, but he was still an above-average third baseman offensively and played great defense. So you had Geno. You had Teoscar, like you said. You had the first month of Jared Kelnick,

[00:22:51] which was otherworldly. You had 20-23, J.P. Crawford, who lit the world on fire. Obviously, you had Cal and Julio. Yeah, that was probably the best offensive team. Or just overall team. And they missed the playoffs. So that team had 88 wins. I think that team was more talented than the team that made the playoffs in 2022 that won 90 games. And definitely more talented than the team that won 90 games and missed the playoffs in 2021. Right. I think this 2025 team is more talented than, say,

[00:23:20] say, that 2021 team was. That 2021 team caught some magic. That's why they won 90 games. But can they reach the mark they actually need to to make the playoffs? Because I will say that's where the bar is to say whether or not it has been better or not. Yeah. Okay. Let's each do one more quick takeaway. Brian Wu could have been this guy. We talked about him so much and how awesome he's been. I decided to pivot to somebody else. How about one of our guys? How about Gabe Spire?

[00:23:48] Do you know how valuable he's been for this team? The fact he's been healthy. The fact he's back to throwing in leverage. And the fact that he looks like the guy that was dominating in 2023, if not even better than that. Gabe Spire this year has totally gone back to what he was and what made him effective two years ago. This year, he's got a 225 ERA. His whip's under one. Strikeout rates at a career high. Lefties are OPSing 300 against them.

[00:24:18] He's back to getting ground balls. Man, Gabe Spire has been awesome. There's been a narrative out there that if Matt Brash was healthy all of last year, this team probably makes the playoffs. There's a narrative out there, too, that if Pete Gabe Spire's healthy all year, that's enough to have him make the playoffs last year, too. They just didn't have that. And now that they do and they have both of them back, oh, you can tell what the difference is in that bullpen because Munoz has more help than he did last year by a wide margin. By that, you mean just Gabe, no Brash.

[00:24:48] Yeah. Look, now, if you had had both of them, you almost certainly get into the playoffs last year. But yes, if you have just 2023 Gabe Spire in that bullpen last year, he doesn't get injured, he doesn't battle the shoulder, even with Brash out, I still think there's an argument that that's enough to get him into the postseason last year. Just him alone. I echo all that. I want them to start pitching him as a reliever who throws against both lefties and righties because I think that's what he believes he is. We've talked to him about that.

[00:25:16] He said, I'm a leverage reliever. I'm not a lefty specialist. I'm a leverage reliever. And that's how he's thrown this year. But he got sent to the moon all weekend in Houston when there were righties out there. Instead, they threw Casey Legamina. Don't have to tell me that, dog. Well, they had to throw Casey Legamina out there after two innings on Saturday, and then he gives up the walk-off on Sunday, which again, this is not about Casey Legamina himself. He's been awesome. We've talked about it. I want Casey Legamina to keep thriving. I just don't think he should have been asked

[00:25:45] to go back out there after throwing two innings the night before. I'm glad you brought up the Astros because that leads into my second takeaway of the first two months. It has nothing to do with the Mariners, actually. Thank goodness for the American League West. This division stinks. Yeah. Am I wrong? No. But who strikes the most fear into you in this division? Technically, the Astros because they do have a legit pitching staff.

[00:26:13] They have a front-line Cy Young contender in Hunter Brown. They have Framber. It's very good. Their bullpen is elite. That lineup, though, I'm not buying at all. Their best hitter is a fly ball merchant. He's not actually, I don't think, a great hitter. He is a opportunistic hitter. I don't think he's a good baseball player unless he's playing in about five parks

[00:26:41] and you're talking about Isak Paredes. I don't. Opportunistic baseball player. It is not a coincidence. He has capitalized on it. It is not a coincidence that when his profile screams that he absolutely thrives on feasting on short left-field porches in hitter's parks, it's not a coincidence that he was really good in Tampa, short left-field porch, has been really good in Houston, short left-field porch and an absolute joke of a Little League ballpark. And then the two other teams he's played for, Detroit and Chicago, he wasn't a good baseball player.

[00:27:11] I don't think it's a coincidence. Think about this, too, that they don't, none of Jordan Alvarez, Jose Altuve, Christian Walker, or Yiner Diaz, who were all plus hitters last year, none of them are above average right now. Jordan's hurt. The other three are well below average as hitters right now. Of their 13 position players, only five of them are above average right now. And I just don't buy it. I'm looking at the names, I don't, I don't buy it. I don't buy it for a second that they are anywhere other than an above average team, but not good.

[00:27:41] I wouldn't call them good. I don't, I don't really feel threatened. I had, I had someone text me today that was like, why do the Astros keep owning the Mariners? I'm like, they don't own the Mariners. Not anymore. It's been pretty dang even. If not the Mariners, in the Mariners favor the last three years since the Mariners have won the World Series and a big part of the, or Mariners, Mariners have not won a World Series since the Astros won a World Series. And a big part of that is because the Astros keep letting all their talent walk out the door to the fact that the only remaining members of their core

[00:28:10] is an injured Jordan Alvarez and the ghost of Jose Altuve. That's it. You could go around the rest of the division, Lyle. The Rangers are underwhelming everywhere. Their three starters at the top of the rotation are fantastic. Rest of the pitching staff, nope, mediocre. Mm-hmm. Jack Leiter started to show flashes of who he's supposed to be. But as a collective group, I can't. I personally would be a little more afraid

[00:28:40] long-term of the Rangers than the Astros. I think that roster when it's all clicking strikes more fear into me and into opposing teams than the Astros and this current version of the Astros do. Because like you said, the Rangers have two guys in the top 10 in ERA and baseball right now in Tyler Mallee and Nathan Evaldi. You've got Jacob DeGrom sitting at a 2-3. You've got Jack Leiter starting to show flashes of who he's supposed to be. Kumar Rocker's your five starter when he comes back off the IL.

[00:29:09] That's a real rotation and I know it's been tough sledding early on offensively, but I just can't sit here and buy that Marcus Semien is going to be a 200 hitter all year. I just don't buy it. 496 OPS. I just don't buy that that's going to happen all season. So I would say the actual talent of the roster, the Rangers, I would be a little more afraid of than the Astros. I like the Astros bullpen better, but when you have that rotation of the Rangers compared to the Astros

[00:29:37] where Altuve looks over the hill, Paredes kind of disappears on the road, Jordan has not played well, you don't have Tucker and Bregman anymore, you've had a ton of injuries in that rotation between Blanco and Arrogetti and then you factor in McCullers not looking like the guy anymore and you factor in, they don't have Luis Garcia, like, ugh, the Astros, I don't buy it. And then the A's and Angels write themselves. The Angels have gotten a little hot lately, I don't buy it for a second, like we said on Monday. Not a good team.

[00:30:07] No. A's are also not a good team, they're in last place now. Yeah. Remember when they played the Mariners two weeks ago, they were knocking on the door and now they've been on an extreme cold streak since then, their pitching staff is horrendous. Mm-hmm. So that's the American League West right now. When an underperforming older baseball club like the Rangers who had to fire their hitting coach two weeks into the season is the biggest quote-unquote threat to you in the division or the team you'd be the most worried about in the division,

[00:30:37] I think the Mariners need to focus on themselves more about worrying about other teams in their division and playing well because I don't think the division is very good at all and I think these first two months have clearly shown that it's just going to take a good performance by a team to win this division and that's it. It doesn't need to be 98 wins. It's going to be 88 to 90. Yeah, and all the positive praise I just gave the Rangers and all the gassing up I just did for that team, they nearly just got swept by the White Sox. Yeah. So,

[00:31:07] that's where the division is at. Mariners are in a decent spot, man. They're still in first. They lead the West. It's not a great division. I just hope they find some ways to turn the corner offensively again and make some significant moves at the deadline. Let me say it again. I said it on Monday. I'm going to say it again. Division leads in May are not real. Doesn't matter. Don't look at the number. You know what matters? It's September. No, but process matters and again, that's why I'm talking about the offense

[00:31:37] turning around and potentially making deadline additions, et cetera. Sure. But I use it to the example of the Astros being in a game and a half behind the Mariners. Doesn't matter. Sure. Okay, let's take a quick pause. We're going to talk to you guys about our friends over at Pogaccia's Pub 85. That's over in Kirkland. It's an awesome spot to go hang out with your friends whether you want to watch the ball games. There's 20 TVs in that place. Get some great food, drinks, play some bar games like pool, darts, et cetera. And if you show up during happy hour, you can get some happy hour deals

[00:32:07] that are awesome. Monday through Friday, 2 to 6 p.m. happy hour and drinks are three and four bucks across the board. So if you're interested in that and you want to plan an outing with your friends, head over there to Pogaccia's Pub 85 in Kirkland. So much fun getting to sit down with Durangelo Sanja up in Everett a couple weeks ago. What was, Lyle, what do you feel like was the favorite part of the conversation for you? I think just getting to tap into the mind a little bit of a switch pitcher

[00:32:36] and how he's built out a plan and how he goes about it on a daily basis is super interesting because you're talking to somebody that's doing what's never, ever been done before. And to try to pick his brain a little bit about that I think is fascinating. I call, like, listen to what I reference him as when I bring in the interview because I think it's true, referring to who he is throughout the minor leagues. In addition to that, the people he has in his ear and the people he's able to get

[00:33:06] advice from, man, he's got a real Rolodex of connections, I gotta tell you. And it's a pretty good group of people to have in your corner. So I think just getting to learn about him in a wide variety of ways was my favorite part. Throwing with both arms leads to a lot of connections, Lyle. That and being from Curacao, it sounds like he's really made some very solid connections that will greatly help him as he comes up to the minors and as he leans on advice and sort of gets his mind right to be a big leaguer.

[00:33:35] My one last thing before I throw it to the interview, when we talked about him playing football, I just kind of assumed I'm like, oh, like he's a great athlete. Of course he's going to, he would be good at that. But he's like, eh, no. Maybe when he gets to the big leagues one day, maybe he will not be throwing the football around with Brian Wu and Bryce Miller like they like to do every afternoon. But then he could go out there and show off where he just goes one, other, one, other.

[00:34:04] That would be so cool. Talk about a flex. Yeah, that would be a pretty good flex. You know what's a flex? Hearing the rest of this conversation. So we won't keep you guys any longer. Let's get you to the conversation with Durangelo Sanja. All right, we're joined by, I'll say it, the most interesting man in minor league baseball. It's Durangelo Sanja here with the Everett Aqua Sox. Thanks for hopping on, dude. We appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Question for you, is this the longest you've ever spent in a cold weather place?

[00:34:36] This cold? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Mississippi State, in Mississippi, it was cold too, but I think probably not this cold. I'm wondering how a pitcher feels when he's in a place that's like this, because pitching, I mean, it works so much better when it's warm out. So you get here the first time and you realize, man, I'm just not staying loose very much. I mean, I'm not trying to think too much. I mean, I already know what I signed for in sprint training. I already knew I was coming here and I'll just be prepared,

[00:35:06] mentally prepared, and I'm just doing my job. All right, let me ask you this. How many interviews have you done, honestly, since you started pitching where you've gone through it and nobody's asked you about switch pitching? zero times. Zero? Zero times. Okay, that's what I figured. We're not going to quite break that record today, but before we get to that, I did want to ask just for people to get to know a little bit more about you. When you're not on the baseball field, when you're away from the field and you're trying to relax, what do you like to do? I play video games, a lot of video games, a lot of shows.

[00:35:37] I mean, not shows, but like watch YouTube and this type of stuff. I always, I like my phone too, so I always on my phone or video games. If somebody were to pull up your Instagram and saw your For You page, what are you usually scrolling on or watching? It's a lot of, most of the time it's just baseball stuff like MLB, MLB Network, like ASPN, so it's just like baseball stuff. What are you playing? I play a lot of 2K, MLB The Show, a little bit on Madden too, but I suck at it.

[00:36:07] What teams are you rocking with? What, Madden or? Yeah, whatever. I guess all of them. Madden, I just play Superstar, like I create my own player and MLB The Show, I just play Diamond Dynasty. Okay, so what is your player as a football player? A quarterback. Okay, so what kind of quarterback are we talking about? 99 overall. Okay, so we're just recreating Patty Mahomes. Yeah. Did anybody ever try to get you to play football in high school with the way that you throw? No. Never? No, never. I always just wondered that about

[00:36:36] you just in the sense of obviously people try to get a quarterback to roll to one side, right? You try to get the righty to roll to their left because it's harder to throw, but with you, I guess you could be rolled to either side if you were playing quarterback and you can just throw it on the run. Yeah, but at the same time, I'm not that good at football, so I'm not good at catching the ball but not throwing. Can you throw a football with both hands? Could you like spiral it with both hands? No. You couldn't? No. So what's the weak side? The left side. Really? Yeah. So because you're a natural lefty though, that kind of surprises me, right? Yeah.

[00:37:06] Because you would feel like, okay, I have some good feel with my left hand because that is my dominant hand technically, but your right hand is better at throwing a football. Yeah. I mean, it's not even good from the right side. It's better than the left side, but both sides are not good. It's bad. Does it at least, you at least throw it harder with your right hand? I think I can throw it hard from the left side. Wow. Sometimes it's spiral from the left side, but most of the time I could just be more consistent from the right side. All right. So let me ask you this when we get to the switch pitching stuff.

[00:37:36] Maybe you've been asked this before, but I've been curious. Obviously, at some point in time, at some point in your baseball career, you decided, okay, not only can I throw with both hands, not only do I have the ability to do it, but I'm actually going to go after it and I'm going to pursue it. Was there an age where you said, yeah, I'm going to do this? It wasn't like I'm going to do this. It's just at some point I just stopped using my left side and I was playing shortstop and second base. And I think that's why my right side is better than my left side because I stopped

[00:38:06] using my left side for three to four years. And that's why when I moved to the state, I started using the left side back. And that's why probably the left side is just a little behind from the right side. But it was just I like to play position players and position and play shortstop second base. And then when I moved to the state, I was like, no, I can do this and try and throw from both sides. So see if you spent the entire time being a center fielder

[00:38:35] instead of throwing right-handed, you decided to keep throwing left-handed because there are a lot of left-handed outfielders. Do you feel like maybe the sides would be flipped right now? Or if you were to still try and pitch from both sides, your left hand would be a little more dominant than your right side would be? Yeah, I would say so because I think it's more like the wraps and trying to get more wraps. That's why I'm coming in and relieving stuff too so I can get more wraps, more like just trying to get confidence

[00:39:03] back because I haven't thrown much from the left side. I throw a lot from the right side so I think that's why that side is more dominant now because I throw more with that side. So let me ask you this, you mentioned relieving from the left side which you're doing roughly about once a week right now and then you make your starts from the right side and you'll mix in some left-handed at-bats here and there. How do you and the Mariners formulate a plan like that? And I wonder because what you're doing obviously has never been done before. Like Pat Banditti threw from both

[00:39:32] sides but he was a reliever. How did you guys sit down and say okay we're going to try this to start the year? No, but it's not more like oh I'm going to start Saturday and then come in as a reliever on Wednesday. It's just so I can see I can get more wraps and see more hitters in there because when I start I only face like three hitters from the left side and for me like if I only throw from the right side Saturday it will be like oh I throw like 20 hitters from the right side and

[00:40:02] then only face three hit it from the left side and the left side it won't like get better so that's why it just throw me in there just to. Let me ask you this too. In the course of your journey throwing from both sides did you ever have people throughout your baseball career thus far that told you yeah this isn't going to work you're going to have to stop whether it was a coach or whether it was a friend or it was a parent of somebody on the team who came up to you and said yeah like you're going to have to pick one. I would say a scout. Scout? Yeah he just

[00:40:31] straight up to me and said you're not good from the left side you're just better from the right side. And you proved him wrong. Yeah but I mean I always there's always like proof like more room to improvement so I always trying to get better and I don't I'll just let this stuff trying to help me and just help my career. So can you take us through your week like what's the what does what is recovering when you have to throw from both sides like I feel like guys regular starters in the big leagues you throw from

[00:41:00] one side can have every day mapped out but for you it feels like it's totally different. Yeah it's different because sometimes on Monday I don't like let's say this Monday I do a couple of stuff with my left arm but like next Monday I won't do it with my left arm it depends how I feel and I mean just trying to balance everything like especially like with stretching and stuff if I do something from left side I always make sure I do it from the right side too but like recovery wise it depends how I feel and how my body is like adapting to

[00:41:29] like the stuff that I'm doing. Interesting. So obviously you're going to be a starter but like say in a hypothetical world you would have been a reliever from both sides like Venditti was. Do you think you could throw every day like once from one side and once from the other or can your body not take that? I think my body can take it because I think I've been doing it for a long time a little bit and I think my body can take it. Yeah. How inspirational was that when you saw him make the big leagues?

[00:41:56] I mean something with me is just nothing like I don't get like too high too low. Everything is the same for me so nothing like impressed me so and not in a bad way but it's just I don't know. And I get that. I do feel like though there is a lot of pressure if you're going to be the first. Yeah. Because if it wasn't for him you very well could be the first switch pitcher to make the big leagues and there's a big spotlight on that as opposed to you know if you're second the scrutiny is nowhere near as high.

[00:42:26] I mean I don't know. It's just. You don't think about that stuff. I don't think about it. I get it. And that's good. It's probably good you don't. Yeah. Have you and Pat talked much? Yeah. I used to talk to him a lot. I think we haven't talked much but like when I started like getting the picture and stuff he DM'd me on Instagram and we chop it up a little bit and he had my number too and I talked to him like a couple like I would say a year ago or like two years ago because it was more

[00:42:54] my pitching coach in Mississippi he was just trying to like figure out how like to deal with me and stuff and he was talking to him just to get like like how like everything would work out and stuff. I'm curious about Mississippi because you played at one of the most prestigious colleges in the country maybe at the coolest college atmosphere in the country certainly the biggest one does that help you prepare for you know what you're going through now playing in pro baseball because those crowds are like nothing you see in college baseball.

[00:43:24] I mean it's always something I dream of like I always like to be on that like on that field and like especially in front of everybody and I just I just love to be in that moment and I don't know I just love it. Did you ever pitch because a lot of SEC stadiums have crazy environments. Did you ever pitch at Texas A&M? Yeah I did. Did you ever have to hear those fans do the whole like ball five ball five thing? You did hear it? Yeah. Oh and how and how's that? I mean I don't I don't like that. Sure.

[00:43:54] I can imagine I can only imagine it's just I guess it's known throughout college baseball so I was curious if you had to kind of hear it or not. Are they are they the worst fan base to deal with in the SEC? I don't think the worst but I think they're just annoying which is fair. Yeah. And I'm going to take the based off of your mindset chirping doesn't really affect you that much. No. Even if someone says like nasty things to you it's like nothing nothing actually gets to me like I remember like in Arkansas we play one game and somebody says something

[00:44:23] about my mom was like that's not that's not going to do nothing to me. Uh-huh. I know where my mom is so they don't they don't bother me. How does the chirping in pro ball compare? I mean we went to Oregon like Eugene and these fans were they were just screaming stuff like bro it's not it's not open. It's not that serious. Okay I need to ask best and worst road trip that you've had in pro ball so far. The best? Best. Best and worst. If you could think of. I guess he hasn't had that many.

[00:44:53] I know I know so maybe pick one of the two if one sticks out. The best one is Spokane. Okay. I love the field. Yeah it's pretty nice. All right. What's your early like takeaways from Washington in the small time you've spent here so far because it hasn't been that long but it's very different from coming from Kersow you play in Florida you play in the SEC you know it's a it's a long way away and it's a different environment so like how have you taken it all in so far? I've taken it in pretty good. The only thing I don't like about it is just the apartment they don't have the AC.

[00:45:24] Really? Yeah. Oh I guess that makes sense. That's something you're going to have to get used to this summer it'll get a little toasty. Yeah I just bought a fan so I'm cool now. Fan you probably you could put some ice packs in front of it open the you got to make sure the windows are open. That's the one thing before I opened the window but I can't deal with the noise outside so I can't go back to sleep so that's why I got a fan out so I'm cool now. Oh it's almost like white noise it cancels it out. I like the car like they're going outside and especially in the morning like everybody like going to work

[00:45:53] and stuff and I just close that window and that's why I bought a fan yesterday. Do you think you're going to climb a mountain while you're here? Probably. Okay. Yeah. That's good because no mountains in Florida no mountains Mississippi are the mountains in Curacao? Yeah. Okay. Tall as this or no? I don't think so. Okay. Yeah. Get up there in the snow a little bit. I think that'd be I think that'd be pretty fun. Yeah. Who's who's who are some people that have been kind of either inspirational or just people that have helped you in your baseball

[00:46:23] journey because I know like coming from Curacao you've got real relationships with a lot of the guys that have come over from there. So is it some of those guys? Yeah. I talk to Ozzy too. I talk to Ozzy a lot. We haven't been talking too much because I mean he kind of doing his own thing. I'm doing my thing and he helped me a little bit talk about like the minor league experience and all that and Andrew Jones too before and then but one person that actually like helping me a lot right now is Cesar Batia. He's the one that like

[00:46:53] always send him videos on me pitching and he will like give me like tips what to do what not to do and so I can just keep going. It's a half decent person to have in your corner. He's just a Hall of Famer is all. Yeah. What's the best piece of advice he gave you? It's just trust like your pitches and just throw everything with a purpose and not just go in there like give the hitter so much credit and just be a dog and just do your job. That's all about it. And what is the process of them like them finding you?

[00:47:23] I think I remember hearing this in a different interview where you said it's just like they're just DMing me because they see the they see the see me pitching on perfect game or on on major league baseball. Like, oh, oh, wow. No, but his wife is my agent. So that's why we're pretty close. Yeah. That works out. What have Ozzie and Ozzie Alves and Andrew Jones told you? Like if one thing sticks out to you from some advice they've given you about paving your way through professional baseball, what is it? They both always like they both say like kind of the same thing.

[00:47:51] Like right now, I mean, obviously it's going to be rough now down here, but I mean, just the baseball like it's not going to change. So you just got to go out there, do your job and just remember where you came from. So there's no your identity and just you you're not here just to play baseball. I mean, you're doing for your family like they sacrifice a lot for you and you for you to be in this position right now. It's just keep getting better and just, you know, don't try to go too high

[00:48:21] and try to go too low. Just stay in one direction and just try to do your job. Durangelo, last thing for me, since you got to spend the entire time down in Peoria around a lot of the big league guys, who made the biggest impression on you? I would say Logan Gilbert. Why? He like sometimes when we don't we both doing like recovery and stuff like hop like in the hot tub or we're lifting. He always like asking me, you doing good? You need something? And he always like always there to help. And especially when I talk to him when I'm

[00:48:50] sorry, first time in Texas when I just got drafted and he I mean he we had each other's number. So he was like, if you need something, just text me. I can help you. And don't try to be afraid. Just I'm here to help you. Did you see his bag of goodies that he carries around? Yeah. What do you think of it? It's funny. Have you used any of that? No, no, you haven't. Will you? We'll see. People people kind of call him a mad scientist in terms of a pitcher and it works for him. Like it is kind of fascinating, right? How many things he

[00:49:20] carries around and uses. It's crazy. It's crazy. The last thing I got for you. I know we talked about this a little bit on something we posted on social media, but for people who haven't heard this, not only do you throw from both sides, but you also have spoken four languages in your life, which is I think another way of saying like you're a pretty smart kid. So what drove you to learn not just two languages, but four different languages? Because most people can't even speak two. The two of us can barely speak one. So you can speak four. I'm just curious. I mean, in school back

[00:49:49] in Curacao, like we kind of, I would say Netherlands, like they used to like own Curacao a little bit or own Curacao. And every like lesson in school is in Dutch. So you got to know Dutch for you to like pass your class and all that. So if you don't know Dutch, you're not going to be able to pass your class. And they teach us like Spanish, English. So, and obviously Papamento is the main language. So you all, you have like all these classes

[00:50:19] that you have to pass. Like it's more like here you can only have like five classes or like six, but there's like a lot. You probably got like 12 class you have to pass. So it's more like difficult there in Curacao. And you managed to do it. I mean, how, how much do you, I think I remember you saying English and the Papamiano you keep up the most with, do you still speak any Dutch or Spanish these days or just a little bit? I mean, I speak in Spanish with some of the players, but like, um,

[00:50:48] Papamiano is like, I speak Papamiano with my family and stuff, but English, I mean, you got to speak English here. Sure. Spanish. Yeah. I speak with them, but Dutch, I haven't, I haven't like speaking Dutch in like five, six years. So, I mean, I have nobody to speak with. Huh? Well, maybe one day, right? Yeah. Yeah. Durangelo, this has been awesome. You were fascinating to watch. I know Mariners fans are going to love this interview and we've loved getting to learn a little bit about here. Here's here sitting down with you. So thanks for doing it. Continued success. And we can't wait to watch you thrive. Thank you. Yeah.

[00:51:20] Well, shout out Durangelo Sanja. That was a blast getting to sit down with him in person, learning about who he is, understanding what it takes to be a switch pitcher and be the first man on the moon in many ways. So to see him doing what he's doing right now in Everett has been awesome. And to get to learn more about him, we had a blast talking to him. So hopefully you guys enjoyed the interview. With that, that'll just about wrap up this edition of the Marine Layer podcast. You guys know the drill. If you want to listen to the full form podcast, you can do so and stay on top of all of our stuff right

[00:51:49] over at our website, Marinelayerpod.com. It's a one-stop shop. Go get yourself some merch. Subscribe to our Patreon. We'd love to have you. All the episodes are on our website. You can find it audio-wise, video-wise, whichever you prefer. You can also see our upcoming live show schedule. It's been a blast to do those and have people out at them. You can find all that over at our website, Marinelayerpod.com. And then you can check us out across social media, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube shorts, Twitter, at Marinelayerpod. That's TJ. I'm Lyle.

[00:52:19] As always, we thank you guys for tuning in. We'll talk to you soon.